Game Thread: Xavier v Providence College (2/1/2023)

[paulxu]

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CINCINNATI --- The Xavier University Musketeers, 17-5 overall and tied for first place at 9-2 in the BIG EAST Conference, host the Providence College Friars, 17-5 overall and tied with XU at 9-2 in the BIG EAST, on Wednesday night at Cintas Center. Xavier is 16th in the latest Associated Press Poll and 15th in the USA Today Coaches Poll, while Providence moved up to 17th in both polls.

Providence is the defending BIG EAST Regular Season Champions, while Xavier won the title in 2018.

The games between Providence and Xavier at Cintas Center the last two seasons have been decided by a 3-pointer in the closing seconds. PC's Jared Bynum hit the game-winner last season, while XU's Colby Jones hit the game-winner in 2021.

THE MATCHUP

NO. 16/15 XAVIER UNIVERSITY MUSKETEERS (17-5, 9-2 BIG EAST)
NO. 17/17 PROVIDENCE COLLEGE FRIARS (17-5, 9-2 BIG EAST)
WEDNESDAY, FEB. 1, 2023 AT 6:30 P.M. ET
AT CINTAS CENTER IN CINCINNATI, OHIO

TV, RADIO & LIVE STATS

Television: FS1 with play by-play from Jason Benetti and analysis from Bill Raftery.
Xavier Radio: 55KRC with play-by-play from Xavier Hall of Famer Joe Sunderman ('79) and analysis from XU all-time leading scorer and Hall of Famer Byron Larkin ('88). XU broadcast also available on Sirius XM channel 84 and 84 on the SXM App.
Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com (http://statbroadcast.com) and fan stats at GoXavier.com. (http://goxavier.com)

[paulxu]

Raftery is coming to town. Can't remember if that's a good or bad thing.

[American X]

Raftery is coming to town. Can't remember if that's a good or bad thing.

More importantly, Jason Benetti is coming to town, which is a very good thing. Raftery is good also in that Benetti teases him for his post-game beer drinking.

Xavier should have a better chance than last Saturday since the Scream Masks do not come in pink.

[Masterofreality]

More importantly, Jason Benetti is coming to town, which is a very good thing. Raftery is good also in that Benetti teases him for his post-game beer drinking.

Xavier should have a better chance than last Saturday since the Scream Masks do not come in pink.

Those guys are REALLY good together.
BTW . You would never know that Benetti has a milder case of Muscular Dystrophy. Guy is superb.

[Final4]

Those guys are REALLY good together.
BTW . You would never know that Benetti has a milder case of Muscular Dystrophy. Guy is superb.

Cerebral Palsy and Muscular Dystrophy are not the same thing.

[American X]

With Freemantle out, does this mean The Jerome Hunter Three Point Experience returns in all its glory?

On his radio show, Miller spoke of getting Cesare playing time in these upcoming home games. Now it sounds like he knew what was coming.

I will try to pray away the hex on KyKy Tandy. No promises.

[GoMuskies]

With Freemantle out, does this mean The Jerome Hunter Three Point Experience returns in all its glory?


That was actually the absolute worst thing that happened on Saturday. Miller couldn't get Hunter out fast enough when Creighton left him wide open and he hoisted that terrible three.

[xukeith]

That was actually the absolute worst thing that happened on Saturday. Miller couldn't get Hunter out fast enough when Creighton left him wide open and he hoisted that terrible three.

Whose 3 point shot is worse? Claude or Hunter?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Whose 3 point shot is worse? Claude or Hunter?

Yes

[xavierj]

X -4 o/u 153 1/2 on the site I use.

[bleedXblue]

Providence is a nightmare match up for X. I am not optimistic at all, especially with Free out.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Providence is a nightmare match up for X. I am not optimistic at all, especially with Free out.

Really? I'm not going to pretend to know a ton about them (other than Hopkins is awesome) but I was listening to Broering on a twitter spaces last night and they were talking about how X's biggest struggles come with dynamic PG's who can get into the lane at will and how this is a good matchup for X because Providence doesnt have that.

From what I have seen of X, and the other BE teams, I think Marquette and Creighton are pretty easily the toughest matchups for X. I guess we will see with Providence tomorrow, but obviously with Free out it hurts and will skew it somewhat.

[Xavier]

Of the top teams in the big East, Providence is the least concerning. Wish it wasn’t first game without Freemantle though.

[American X]

Whose 3 point shot is worse? Claude or Hunter?

Miller swears by Claude's three point shot, but at this point it is as real as XBand's girlfriend in Canada.

[X-band '01]

Hey now, I told you about Melanie in Missisauga in private. Was never supposed to be made public.

[xavierj]

Really? I'm not going to pretend to know a ton about them (other than Hopkins is awesome) but I was listening to Broering on a twitter spaces last night and they were talking about how X's biggest struggles come with dynamic PG's who can get into the lane at will and how this is a good matchup for X because Providence doesnt have that.

From what I have seen of X, and the other BE teams, I think Marquette and Creighton are pretty easily the toughest matchups for X. I guess we will see with Providence tomorrow, but obviously with Free out it hurts and will skew it somewhat.

One thing that will be a positive is Hunter guarding Hopkins. Hopkins likes to play outside more and I think Hunter will be more capable of guarding him than Zach would be.

[D-West & PO-Z]

One thing that will be a positive is Hunter guarding Hopkins. Hopkins likes to play outside more and I think Hunter will be more capable of guarding him than Zach would be.

Good info. Need Hunter to stay away from the nickel and dimer fouls when guarding on the perimeter.

[xukeith]

One thing that will be a positive is Hunter guarding Hopkins. Hopkins likes to play outside more and I think Hunter will be more capable of guarding him than Zach would be.

Hunter does foul a lot so we will see if he has any non fouling instances.

[Blue Blooded-05]

X -4 o/u 153 1/2 on the site I use.

Spread has widened from X -3.5 yesterday when the Free news became public. I don't get it but I like it!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Spread has widened from X -3.5 yesterday when the Free news became public. I don't get it but I like it!

-3.5 since yesterday and still on Fan Duel
-4 o DK right now, not sure what it opened on there

[Three Point Pete]

Providence is a nightmare match up for X. I am not optimistic at all, especially with Free out.Not a nightmare by any means but a tough match up. Jared Bynum appears healthy again(sore ribs) and is heating up. He's the guy who killed us (27 points) in that triple OT game. (Colby and Jack had double doubles).

Bynun hung 19 points on Nova, including the game-winning dagger. Another pesky PG and X may or may not contain him.

And there's Alyn Breed and Des matching up,
Nunge and Croswell.

I am really looking forward to Noah Locke vs. Colby!

Hunter vs. Hopkins? As posted depends on defensive without fouling.

Bottom line is Creighton and Marquette have already beaten the Friars, and if Xavier hopes for a BE championship, then we have to win too.

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[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure if the rest of you guys realize this or not, but given where we are in the season, the current Big East standings and Free's injury, Xavier winning this game tonight would be absolutely massive.

You're welcome for this keen insight!

[Xville]

I’m surprised by the non line movement.. seeing -4 still about everywhere. I thought it may move a point or point and a half. I’m going to take this as a good sign and start my 10 to 10k on this one tonight :)

[D-West & PO-Z]

Fan Duel went from -3.5 yesterday and this morning to -4.5 as of right now.

[X-band '01]

Ed Cooley must have been sitting in his office earlier this week thinking "How do I know Xavier isn't trying to pull a fast one on us?"

[BlueX]

Game will be in 4k hdr on Fox sports app

[HenryMuto]

How does both announcers call the travel and all the refs miss it....annoying

[HenryMuto]

25-11 lead me likey

[Xville]

Hell of a start holy crap these guys have stepped up so far tonight!

[Three Point Pete]

Claude TREY!

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[xukeith]

Long night for friars if Claude 3 point shot looks good.

[noteggs]

Freak yeah!!!

[Xuperman]

Well....here comes that big lead challenge... Again.

[Xville]

Man kyky gets sat down every single time he makes one mistake. I don’t get why this only happens to him

[Xville]

0 turnovers in 12 minutes. That will do!

[HenryMuto]

Free throws come on

[xavierj]

Free throws come on

Yeah Colby needs to lock in. He is getting torched on defense and missing free throws. .

[noteggs]

Keep the pressure on guys! Don’t waste a very good first half!

[Xuperman]

Jones can not be counted on from the line....very strange.

[Xville]

I want Edwards to get it, but he looks so out of place every time he comes in. I don’t want to bag on the kid but I don’t think he can play at this level

[xavierj]

Jeez Colby.

[HenryMuto]

Blew a huge 14 point lead and where is Boum ? Get him back in the game.

Another FT miss that's 5 and that was front end JFC

[Xville]

A great first 13 minutes… maybe the best all year, followed by a very poor last seven minutes

[Xuperman]

Man, this is so fucking frustrating.

[Xville]

Blew a huge 14 point lead and where is Baum ? Get him back in the game.

Another FT miss that's 5 and that was front end JFC

Has two fouls

[HenryMuto]

Boum has 2 fouls that cost us a huge lead

[xavierj]

I mean Providence was going to make a run but Colby kept them in the game.

[noteggs]

Adam B is playing this game?

[HenryMuto]

That hurt only up 4 now basically the great 1st 12 minutes erased. If X does not come out big early in the 2nd half those last 8 minutes may have just cost the game.

To only be up 4............too many missed FT's

Boum getting 2 fouls hurt

[Three Point Pete]

Croswell is ballin' tonight--Nunge will need some rest. More Edwards in 2nd half. Maybe 2 minutes of Miles to bang it up?

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[Xuperman]

33-19....then they simply punk us. This "lead" thing is far too consistent and is 100% real.....I am really pissed it keeps happening.

[Xville]

Croswell is ballin' tonight--Nunge will need some rest. More Edwards in 2nd half. Maybe 2 minutes of Miles to bang it up?

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I don’t know how Edwards gets time over miles. Miles at least has some height and plays decent d, I’m not sure what Edwards does

[xavierj]

My guess is Colby allowed at least 16 points in the first half. Locke got him for 9 Carter got him for 5. He has been beat in the lane, fouled guys and late on getting hands up on three’s.

[hoopster68]

Is it too much to ask that X play defense? C'mon Sean, it is now February. I expect better performance from you & the players.

[Xuperman]

My guess is Colby allowed at least 16 points in the first half. Locke got him for 9 Carter got him for 5. He has been beat in the lane, fouled guys and late on getting hands up on three’s.

And he kinda sucks from the line.

[Xville]

My guess is Colby allowed at least 16 points in the first half. Locke got him for 9 Carter got him for 5. He has been beat in the lane, fouled guys and late on getting hands up on three’s.

Yep, he’s probably our worst defender besides kunkel, free, and boum. In other words, x is terrible defensively. There is one poster on here with reality in his name that defended him in the first creighton game, he was terrible then too. Hes going to have to get exponentially better on that side of the floor if he ever wants to play in the nba. Guys will absolutely abuse him at that level.

[HenryMuto]

Can't lose this game must win every home game left. This will be the toughest home game left to win. Win this and they should win out at home.

Can't lose a game you were up 33-19 at home.

[Xville]

Is it too much to ask that X play defense? C'mon Sean, it is now February. I expect better performance from you & the players.

There’s only so much miller can do at this point. Remember these aren’t his players besides boum. If they don’t have the will to play defense ( which most of them don’t) then that’s their issue at this time of the season.

[Xuperman]

Can't lose this game must win every home game left. This will be the toughest home game left to win. Win this and they should win out at home.

Can't lose a game you were up 33-19 at home.

But they are proven, time and time again, to blow very sizable leads. It cost us dearly non con. Been very fortunate to overcome it, so far, in conference. This is not fun to watch.

[GoMuskies]

Yo, we're a mess.

[Xuperman]

And there it is....14 lead down the shitter.

[HenryMuto]

Jesus

Had 93% chance to win when it was 33-19 and now it is at 51%

[GoMuskies]

Hunter is still a really shitty shooter. Good of him to remove all doubt on that point.

[HenryMuto]

Those were some terrible turnovers leading to easy baskets for them

[Xville]

Great response coming out of the half jfc. Wtf

[IM4X]

What the hell is going on coach!!!

Lazy passes.

Nunge not grabbing easy defensive rebounds.

Guys taking quick shots.

A time out should have been called a long time ago.

Just horrible coach!

[Xuperman]

26-10 run....wow. I don't see how it's possible to be so consistently terrible playing with HUGE LEADS!

[IM4X]

Colby Jones is saving the teams ass tonight.

Other players need to step up.

[noteggs]

Reminds me of SH vs PC game earlier this year.

[xukeith]

Tandy was simply awful.

[xavierj]

This team couldn’t cover a guy running off a screen for a 3 if their life depended on it. Just kills them.

[Xville]

Colby Jones is saving the teams ass tonight.

Other players need to step up.

He’s also helped providence score half their points. He’s at most a net neutral tonight

[xavierj]

Tandy was simply awful.

For the record they have 6 threes and Tandy didn’t cause any of them.

[Xuperman]

I am just waiting for Hopkins to explode.

[HenryMuto]

Apparently it is prison rules tonight

[xavierj]

I am just waiting for Hopkins to explode.

Hunter has been frustrating him. Jerome has really made it hard on him.

[HenryMuto]

I am just waiting for Hopkins to explode.

Painful for me to have to watch Hopkins who was with Kentucky last year the latest player to leave and explode with another team just like Johnny Juzang did with UCLA.

Glad Hopkins is having an off night.

[noteggs]

I am just waiting for Hopkins to explode.

Knock on wood, Hunter is doing a good job on D

[IM4X]

Kunkel having a rough day.

[Xville]

Geezus fuck seriously just leaving Locke wide open. Wtf is Colby jones doing in the defensive side of the ball? It’s mind boggling

[HenryMuto]

No Freemantle is killing us on the boards tonight

[Xville]

Come on defense!!!!

[IM4X]

Why are we so bad a grabbing defensive rebounds.

it’s embarrassing.

[Xville]

Colby scores then let’s his man score… back and forth over and over

[IM4X]

Get Edwards out of there. No one can grab ANY rebounds.

Come on coach! Tell your team to man up!!!

[Caveat]

The lack of hustle and effort on defense and rebounding on this team is a bummer.

[IM4X]

Sucks not having Free in there.

[Strange Brew]

Sucks not having Free in there.

Only down one after Jack got a breather.

Let’s go X!

[IM4X]

no freemantle is killing us on the boards tonight

this!!!!!

[Xville]

Again I ask, How does miles not get on the floor over Edwards?

[noteggs]

Stating the obvious, we need to go on a small run.

[HenryMuto]

PRISON RULES JFC Hopkins threw him to the ground

[Caveat]

Kunkel cannot play at this level.

[IM4X]

Refs screwing us again.

[noteggs]

Worst no call. Wtf

[Xville]

There ya go Jerome!!!!!

[HenryMuto]

Lol they call an offensive foul on Providence on nothing but don't on hammer downs

[HenryMuto]

Just can't get stops

[Xville]

Boum is way off again, and that was a bad shot.

[Strange Brew]

Boum is way off again, and that was a bad shot.

No rotation on that shot.

[HenryMuto]

Make your layups FAWK

[IM4X]

Great rebound by Claude followed by a horrible decision to not wait for his teammates.

[HenryMuto]

Baum still has 2 fouls sitting him to end the half really screwed us

[HenryMuto]

Too many missed FT's in a close game

[Xville]

Freaking foul shots

[Xville]

Jerome giving it everything he has.

[Xville]

Alright got the lead now play some d!!!

[Strange Brew]

Jerome giving it everything he has.

8 missed FTs may be the deciding factor.

[Xville]

Play some d please

[xukeith]

Huge defense Hunter!

[Three Point Pete]

Hunter vs Hopkins!

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[HenryMuto]

Out of bounds sets have killed us can't give up that 3 ball brutal

[Xville]

There ya go Colby! Huge strip

[Xville]

MVP regardless to Jerome… he has shut Hopkins, who may end up being the be player of the year down

[Xville]

Yes Kunkel!!!! Now play some d boys!

[Strange Brew]

Yes Kunkel!!!! Now play some d boys!

Bank shot…

[HenryMuto]

Damn a banked 3 and then we get crap shots to try and win it. I hate when teams run that much clock and get crap shots.

[Xville]

What the hell was boum doing? He had an open lane with almost three seconds left

[Caveat]

I’ve run out of things to say about how lazy the defense is.

It’s on the coaching to get better effort. And it isn’t working.

[HenryMuto]

Could have used a few of those missed FTs. Overtime................sigh

I was saying just get 1 stop when up 3 force them into a bad 3 and it banked in then we can't get the winner.

If we lose..............that final 40 seconds will haunt

[Caveat]

Damn a banked 3 and then we get crap shots to try and win it. I hate when teams run that much clock and get crap shots.

A banked wide open 3 because no one went with the shooter as he dribbled calmly to the 3 point line and took an uncontested shot.

0% effort play.

[Xville]

Ugh hunter so great tonight except for the line

[Xville]

Geezus I hope those are just cramps

[xukeith]

Hunter might be cramping.

[HenryMuto]

Well this is our chance up 82-79 can we finally get that stop ?

[Xville]

Hell yeah! Get two straight stops and this one is over. Come on boys dig deep!

[Xville]

Great d Colby! Nice!

[Xville]

Damn! Got one stop, second would have sealed it

[HenryMuto]

I don't like giving up a free dunk but we have to get this to Baum they are going to press and foul if they can't turn us over they can't wait for us to shoot I don't think.

First things first we can't turn this over.

[HenryMuto]

We break the press and then turn it over and give them a layup.............unreal

[Xville]

Are you kidding me Colby? Come on man

Nevermind that was nunge’s butterfingers

[paulxu]

Who is Baum?

[Strange Brew]

Jeebus.

[HenryMuto]

Have to get this to Baum

[Xville]

A freshman throwing it in? Is that a good idea?

[Xville]

Holy fuck I thought that was in. Whew

[Strange Brew]

Phew.

[BillikenMusketeer]

Seems like almost every game ends like this. Way too many close calls

[paulxu]

Whew.

[HenryMuto]

I was so stressed at the end when they went up for the 3 my arm cramped up and I was in intense pain but it went away when the ball bounced off the rim.

SURVIVE AND ADVANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus man I am spent

[Xville]

Geezus this team gives me a heart attack

[Strange Brew]

I was so stressed at the end when they went up for the 3 my arm cramped up and I was in intense pain but it went away when the ball bounced off the rim.

SURVIVE AND ADVANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus man I am spent

Hope it wasn’t you left arm…

[Three Point Pete]

Yes, it was close, but should have made FTs.


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[xavierj]

Holy fuck I thought that was in. Whew

Me too. Yikes. Watching the replay I think Bynums heal was on the out of bounds line. Is that reviewable if he would have made it?

[noteggs]

Win! That’s all that matters

[bjf123]

Yes, it was close, but should have made FTs.


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^^^This^^^


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[GreatWhiteNorth]

That was much too close for comfort. My heart was pounding like a rabbit. I think X won due to home court advantage. Still, it’s a WIN and I am happy.

[HenryMuto]

Boum was due to finally miss a clutch FT just glad we got the win. I could done without the end of OT up 5 with 57 seconds left and still having to survive that.

Breaking the press up 3 then turning it over on careless mistake was really tough to stomach then not getting the rebound and having to watch them jack up a 3 at the buzzer could done with out that too.

[HenryMuto]

Who is Baum?

Ya I just noticed I kept typing Baum when of course I meant Boum

[HenryMuto]

I didn't realize Kunkel had just 3 pts all game before that 3 in the final minute of regulation.

[Xville]

18-5, 10-2 I’ll take it. :)

If someone offered 4-4 the rest of the way I’d take it. The heart can’t take all these close games lol

[whopper]

guttiest performance i have seen by Xavier..so many chances to fold..missed FT, bynum 3 and yet they did not. All played well even Cesar and Tandy did not cost us

[whopper]

18-5, 10-2 I’ll take it. :)

If someone offered 4-4 the rest of the way I’d take it. The heart can’t take all these close games lol

i could not have slept tonight if bynum shot went it

[SCMuskie]

Staying in a Hotel tonight and I hollered NOOOO as Bynum was shooting. Prolly scared the people in the next room. My heart is pounding. That was a gutsy win.

[noteggs]

What a great game from Hunter guarding Hopkins!

[noteggs]

Who would have thought we were 56% from the line and Des was 4-4?

[Xuperman]

Kunkel cannot play at this level.

This posted needed an "IMO" or should not exist. Definitely self evaluate your knowledge of the many intangibles in this game. Otherwise you may risk more foolishness.

[IM4X]

Great finish for the fellas.

You know, I questioned some of Sean’s decisions tonight, but I have to tip my hat to him for the brilliant move of having Hunter pretend to have that bad cramp at the end so that someone else could take his free throw shots for him. :secret:

Bravo Sean… Bravo!!!

[Blue Blooded-05]

My wife is annoyed with me, my dog is scared of me and I woke my kids (4 & 2) up at least once each... but we got the win! Well done fellas!

[Xville]

This posted needed an "IMO" or should not exist. Definitely self evaluate your knowledge of the many intangibles in this game. Otherwise you may risk more foolishness.

He’s a role player, a good one, but he shouldn’t be starting. He is because there isn’t anyone else due to aluminum. He wouldn’t start on any team in the big East beside maybe DePaul or butler. Is what it is.

[Xuperman]

18-5, 10-2 I’ll take it. :)

If someone offered 4-4 the rest of the way I’d take it. The heart can’t take all these close games lol

I that's probably where we end up 'ville, HOWEVER, I have been predicting a PC sweep. IF that happens a very high MSG seed follows. 15-5 would look awful good for "Banner" possibilities.

[paulxu]

He’s a role player, a good one, but he shouldn’t be starting. He is because there isn’t anyone else due to aluminum. He wouldn’t start on any team in the big East beside maybe DePaul or butler. Is what it is.

And yet his FG % s the same as Boum's. Should he shoot more?

[Xuperman]

He’s a role player, a good one, but he shouldn’t be starting. He is because there isn’t anyone else due to aluminum. He wouldn’t start on any team in the big East beside maybe DePaul or butler. Is what it is.

What's that have to do with the ignorant "this level" comment?

Kunk plays significant AND productive minutes for any team in this conference, there for, any team in the country. He's just an exceptional college basketball player. Absolutely no 10-2 without him.

[Three Point Pete]

I that's probably where we end up 'ville, HOWEVER, I have been predicting a PC sweep. IF that happens a very high MSG seed follows. 15-5 would look awful good for "Banner" possibilities.IMO high probability to finish with 15-5. I don't believe we'll lose 4 more conference games. I think, considering what I saw today, we may only lose 2 more!

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[bjf123]

Who is Baum?

The sportswriter for the Enquirer who covers X. [emoji16] He’s good to follow on Twitter @AdamJBaum. (Yes I know it was a typo in the original post)


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[Caveat]

This posted needed an "IMO" or should not exist. Definitely self evaluate your knowledge of the many intangibles in this game. Otherwise you may risk more foolishness.

It should be assumed that every post on a fan board is an opinion.

It isn't personal -- he absolutely doesn't have the athleticism necessary to consistently guard his position, get to the rim, or create shots against quality opposition.

I don't even know how that's debatable at the moment.

[Xville]

I dunno. I hate to say it but I think Saturday could be a loss. Absolutely zero depth against that kind of team who will be desperate for a resume win. Nova is also a completely different team now with Moore back. I could see a couple of home losses along with the road trips to Marquette and providence

[xu82]

Staying in a Hotel tonight and I hollered NOOOO as Bynum was shooting. Prolly scared the people in the next room. My heart is pounding. That was a gutsy win.

AMEN!

Funny story, I’m at an Embassy Suite hotel. A couple nights ago some drunk blowhard was giving the bartenders holy hell because the two free happy hour drinks did not include top shelf stuff. He also said the Ritz would be embarrassed by that and the free appetizer options. I pointed out the window to another building and asked if he knew what it was. He did not. I said “that is the Ritz, and rooms are $1,600/night. Take the thousand dollars+ you saved, and you can buy your own damn top shelf drinks, and cater the spread for the rest of us!” Basically, I shut that asshole down and embarrassed him to some degree, allowing the staff to breathe again.

The bar tenders now love me and my pours about doubled. My wife came down wondering what to do for dinner tonight. She said it felt nice out by the pool. The guy in charge of the bar set up a table outside for us to eat where we could still see the Xavier game thru the window, complete with candles and flowers that came from nowhere.

Moral of the story, don’t be a jackass and take care of your servers.

Great win, and Xavier won a few new fans tonight amongst my bar peeps!

[Caveat]

I dunno. I hate to say it but I think Saturday could be a loss. Absolutely zero depth against that kind of team who will be desperate for a resume win. Nova is also a completely different team now with Moore back. I could see a couple of home losses along with the road trips to Marquette and providence

If they can gut out a win against Providence at home, they can gut out a win against anyone in this conference at home.

BUT, Miller has to find some of Michael's Secret Stuff to give to someone else on the bench besides Des.

[Xville]

What's that have to do with the ignorant "this level" comment?

Kunk plays significant AND productive minutes for any team in this conference, there for, any team in the country. He's just an exceptional college basketball player. Absolutely no 10-2 without him.

Exceptional basketball player? He’s a good role player at this level. He can’t guard a lamppost, gets caught on screens constantly, and has trouble getting his shot off. I disagree he plays significant and productive minutes for any team in this conference, maybe half and he certainly wouldn’t start for anyone ther than DePaul or butler. He plays this much at Xavier out of necessity because Steele was inconsistent as a recruiter.

Anyways, we are far off on this and pretty sure we aren’t going to change the others mind. I know you’re a big fan of his. I think he’s ok.

[D-West & PO-Z]

LETS FUCKING GO!!!!!!

Nunge, Hunter, Colby all huge games!

Boum and Kunkel with huge moments!

What a gutty win in their first game without Freemantle against a top 20 team and a top BE team!!

Need to make more FT's and got lucky Bynum didn't crush our dreams again with a late dagger.

But a win is a win and I will take it!

LETS FUCKING GO X!!!

[Xville]

If they can gut out a win against Providence at home, they can gut out a win against anyone in this conference at home.

BUT, Miller has to find some of Michael's Secret Stuff to give to someone else on the bench besides Des.

I certainly agree they can, but they have lived on the edge so much in conference and mostly got away with it, that the law of averages are telling me it’s going to come back

[N67ER]

Kunkel cannot play at this level.

Are you serious? Without his superb passing we lose this game and several others. And his 2 threes tonight were kinda timely as well. I get the criticism of his defense, but it is not from lack of effort. He is just not strong enough, but that certainly doesn’t hinder him on offense.

[Caveat]

Exceptional basketball player? He’s a good role player at this level. He can’t guard a lamppost, gets caught on screens constantly, and has trouble getting his shot off. I disagree he plays significant and productive minutes for any team in this conference, maybe half and he certainly wouldn’t start for anyone ther than DePaul or butler. He plays this much at Xavier out of necessity because Steele was inconsistent as a recruiter.

Anyways, we are far off on this and pretty sure we aren’t going to change the others mind. I know you’re a big fan of his. I think he’s ok.

He seems like a really good kid, and if you can get him open for a shot he's gonna make a ton of them -- but I don't know how you can watch this team and not see what an outright defensive liability he is. He can't stay in front of anyone, he doesn't have the strength or quickness to get by screens, and he gets caught out of position constantly. It'd be tolerable if he was a bucket machine, but he gets rejected at the rack by average rim protectors, and he struggles to create his own shot.

He's at least giving max effort though, which is why it's hard to hate on him.

[Xville]

Ok enough of the derail.

Great, gutsy win… 8 games left.. my 13-7 prediction I think is going up in smoke and I like it. Pumped for march

[Xuperman]

It should be assumed that every post on a fan board is an opinion.

It isn't personal -- he absolutely doesn't have the athleticism necessary to consistently guard his position, get to the rim, or create shots against quality opposition.

I don't even know how that's debatable at the moment.

You're just wrong. Not only does he constantly get to the rim....he finishes with an uncanny flamboyant flair.

That's NOT debatable.

[Xavier]

I actually think he has the best vision on the team (albeit some of his risk cross court passes lead to dumb turn overs) and is usually the best at getting the ball to our post players. He had what 5 or 6 assists tonight?

I do like him, but also agree he would be best as a 6/7th man.

As for the game tonight- it was huge in many ways. A Q1 win, keeping big East champ alive (even if a long shot) and calming the ship a little without Freemantle. I agree with Xville, we will probably have a couple games we will lose we don’t expect to. But also can see a win we don’t expect too.

[Caveat]

Ok enough of the derail.

Great, gutsy win… 8 games left.. my 13-7 prediction I think is going up in smoke and I like it. Pumped for march

Any win you can get without an all-conference player on the floor is a fantastic win.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

He’s a role player, a good one, but he shouldn’t be starting. He is because there isn’t anyone else due to aluminum. He wouldn’t start on any team in the big East beside maybe DePaul or butler. Is what it is.

Seriously?

[xavierj]

I dunno. I hate to say it but I think Saturday could be a loss. Absolutely zero depth against that kind of team who will be desperate for a resume win. Nova is also a completely different team now with Moore back. I could see a couple of home losses along with the road trips to Marquette and providence

St. John’s? They are very mediocre with a bad coach. Xavier will roll them. I think Xavier without Free is a worse matchup for them.

[Xuperman]

St. John’s? They are very mediocre with a bad coach. Xavier will roll them. I think Xavier without Free is a worse matchup for them.

Sorry, I have to comment on this.

Our Musketeers are sitting at the TOP of the conference at 10-2, but the reality is that we've "rolled" no one except GU 1/21. In fact, very large leads have been surrendered in nearly every game.

Also, there are no "bad" coaches that have zero losing seasons in 22 D1 campaigns (11 with 20+ wins). That's actually the opposite of "bad" and his guys play extremely hard for him.

And, I have to be one of the few here that watches (and records) a ridiculous amount of BE hoops. Mediocre record for SJU? Yes. However, they have a very talented/dangerous group and could easily get a dub Saturday (they absolutely smoked UConn 1/15 in Storrs). Regardless of outcome, they cover on Saturday. By no means a gimme.

[GoMuskies]

Is anyone worried that Boum's shot is (hopefully temporarily) broken? He did a lot of great things to help us win tonight, but his shot is horribly off. Not great with Free down. We're going to need him to get hot to win some of these games down the stretch.

[GoMuskies]

On the depth front, Xavier got 9 minutes from guys outside the "top 6" in the rotation. Providence got 10 such minutes.

[Xavier]

Is anyone worried that Boum's shot is (hopefully temporarily) broken? He did a lot of great things to help us win tonight, but his shot is horribly off. Not great with Free down. We're going to need him to get hot to win some of these games down the stretch.

Not necessarily concerned, especially if he continues to take over when needed. He is a natural scorer…it will come back to form

[drudy23]

Is anyone worried that Boum's shot is (hopefully temporarily) broken? He did a lot of great things to help us win tonight, but his shot is horribly off. Not great with Free down. We're going to need him to get hot to win some of these games down the stretch.

Dog days of January. Of course he's going to have some off games. Dude is playing 38 minutes a game.

March will boost him. The next month is going to be a grind - prepare for it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Hunter played 36 mins, played great defense, and had 1 foul.

That is the type of game we needed. If he can give us 30+ mins and not get into foul trouble while playing good defense, that will be huge for this team with Freemantle out.

[drudy23]

Sorry, I have to comment on this.

Our Musketeers are sitting at the TOP of the conference at 10-2, but the reality is that we've "rolled" no one except GU 1/21. In fact, very large leads have been surrendered in nearly every game.

Also, there are no "bad" coaches that have zero losing seasons in 22 D1 campaigns (11 with 20+ wins). That's actually the opposite of "bad" and his guys play extremely hard for him.

And, I have to be one of the few here that watches (and records) a ridiculous amount of BE hoops. Mediocre record for SJU? Yes. However, they have a very talented/dangerous group and could easily get a dub Saturday (they absolutely smoked UConn 1/15 in Storrs). Regardless of outcome, they cover on Saturday. By no means a gimme.

This is true for ANY Big East road game, and most Big East home games. It's a great conference, this is how it should be.

[Roach]

This is a non sequitur, but tonight I got a very clear sense of why Colby Jones has become a serious NBA prospect. Not that I didn’t see it before, it just seemed like he took it to another level tonight. He attacked the basket like he always does, but he seemed more aggressive and fluid in doing so than he ever has. He was just so, so smooth, throwing off defenders left and right, making shot after shot that never hit the rim.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

This is a non sequitur, but tonight I got a very clear sense of why Colby Jones has become a serious NBA prospect. Not that I didn’t see it before, it just seemed like he took it to another level tonight. He attacked the basket like he always does, but he seemed more aggressive and fluid in doing so than he ever has. He was just so, so smooth, throwing off defenders left and right, making shot after shot that never hit the rim.

I kind of came away with the opposite impression. Not that Colby isn't a very good player----he is. And, he played a pretty good game tonight. But I keep seeing posts in these threads identifying him as a top NBA prospect and, to me, he seems like a decent player whose had some good games for us. But he's not great. I think of a potential NBA player as someone who plays head and shoulders above the others on the court. Colby doesn't. He has offensive and defensive lapses just about every game. He is unreliable at the charity stripe. His ill-timed, late game three-point attempt tonight missed (or almost missed everything) and could have resulted in disaster. After the game, I was talking to another season ticket holder who identified the same things I did. It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.

I'm very glad he's on our side. But I keep waiting for him to play an outstanding game at both ends; to just take control. He never does.

[Roach]

I kind of came away with the opposite impression. Not that Colby isn't a very good player----he is. And, he played a pretty good game tonight. But I keep seeing posts in these threads identifying him as a top NBA prospect and, to me, he seems like a decent player whose had some good games for us. But he's not great. I think of a potential NBA player as someone who plays head and shoulders above the others on the court. Colby doesn't. He has offensive and defensive lapses just about every game. He is unreliable at the charity stripe. His ill-timed, late game three-point attempt tonight missed (or almost missed everything) and could have resulted in disaster. After the game, I was talking to another season ticket holder who identified the same things I did. It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.

I'm very glad he's on our side. But I keep waiting for him to play an outstanding game at both ends; to just take control. He never does.

I just rewatched a condensed version of the game, and still came away with the same impression. He finished with 20 points, had the highest FG% on the team (56%), with 3 boards, 2 steals, and 2 assists, against 1 turnover, and 1 foul. That’s a damn good night by any measure, even if it was overshadowed by Nunge’s monster game. My impression is not that Colby *can’t* take over a game, but rather that he can, but has yet to fully embrace his inner Mamba. In other words, yes, there are stretches when he should be doing more, but isn’t, and then sometimes gets in his own head and tries forcing things. At the same time, there are more than occasional flashes of real, real brilliance. Tonight there seemed to be a lot more than usual, one ill advised 3-point shot notwithstanding.

[Roach]

I kind of came away with the opposite impression. Not that Colby isn't a very good player----he is. And, he played a pretty good game tonight. But I keep seeing posts in these threads identifying him as a top NBA prospect and, to me, he seems like a decent player whose had some good games for us. But he's not great. I think of a potential NBA player as someone who plays head and shoulders above the others on the court. Colby doesn't. He has offensive and defensive lapses just about every game. He is unreliable at the charity stripe. His ill-timed, late game three-point attempt tonight missed (or almost missed everything) and could have resulted in disaster. After the game, I was talking to another season ticket holder who identified the same things I did. It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.

I'm very glad he's on our side. But I keep waiting for him to play an outstanding game at both ends; to just take control. He never does.

One other thing that works against Colby is that he is the furthest thing from a showboat. Don’t get me wrong; there’s a palpable intensity and focus about how he plays, but the young man has almost no braggadocio. His on-court persona is more workmanlike, even if he is prone to the occasional boneheaded play. In a sport with personalities like James Harden, Russell Westbrook, LeBron James, or Draymond Green, having a nondescript on-court persona can obscure how strong or valuable a player’s game really is.

[American X]

Whose 3 point shot is worse? Claude or Hunter?


Miller swears by Claude's three point shot, but at this point it is as real as XBand's girlfriend in Canada.


Hey now, I told you about Melanie in Missisauga in private. Was never supposed to be made public.

Welcome to Cincinnati, Melanie! You brought your hot friend, Free Throws, also!

[xavierj]

Sorry, I have to comment on this.

Our Musketeers are sitting at the TOP of the conference at 10-2, but the reality is that we've "rolled" no one except GU 1/21. In fact, very large leads have been surrendered in nearly every game.

Also, there are no "bad" coaches that have zero losing seasons in 22 D1 campaigns (11 with 20+ wins). That's actually the opposite of "bad" and his guys play extremely hard for him.

And, I have to be one of the few here that watches (and records) a ridiculous amount of BE hoops. Mediocre record for SJU? Yes. However, they have a very talented/dangerous group and could easily get a dub Saturday (they absolutely smoked UConn 1/15 in Storrs). Regardless of outcome, they cover on Saturday. By no means a gimme.

I disagree. Watched the 2nd half last night of the Seton Hall game and was not impressed again at all with St. John’s. They took an 8 point lead with about 10 minutes left and Anderson got totally out coached after that point. His team played with zero discipline and lost their composure. Yes they have a few talented prices but should Xavier lose to them they would have to play very poorly. With Zach out Xavier will be able to deal with their athleticism and also think it’s a game Des can use his size against their small guards. Sean will have a good game plan and Xavier will cover the 7 or 8 points they will be favored by.

[Xuperman]

I disagree. Watched the 2nd half last night of the Seton Hall game and was not impressed again at all with St. John’s. They took an 8 point lead with about 10 minutes left and Anderson got totally out coached after that point. His team played with zero discipline and lost their composure. Yes they have a few talented prices but should Xavier lose to them they would have to play very poorly. With Zach out Xavier will be able to deal with their athleticism and also think it’s a game Des can use his size against their small guards. Sean will have a good game plan and Xavier will cover the 7 or 8 points they will be favored by.

Yeah, I watched them melt down as well. If that team shows up, maybe X can give us all a breather....BUT they won't.

Posh will constantly be in two places at one time, Jones will match our Jones, Soriano will double-double and their frosh Storrs will continue his upper trajectory.

PC was +3.5....you're predicting a 7-8 line here? Not saying the Johnnies couldn't cover, but Vegas could not come close to getting level money there. Going to be +10.....and again......we've basically "rolled" no one.

However, book 11-2, jump 5+ spots in the polls and.....1 week off can't get here soon enough!!!

[Xville]

Yeah sagarin says 9 or 10 for Saturday. I’ll be absolutely floored if x covers, but I’ll take a win any way we can take them. That was one hell of a gutsy win last night.

After thinking about it and looking at schedules, I think x ends up 15-5; one game out of first with Marquette and providence sharing the title; creighton and x sitting in a tie for second or third however you want to look at it.

The top 5 in this conference (including UConn) could all do some major damage in the tourney. This is about as high as I have been on the conference entering the tourney in a month as I have been since x joined. I know nova has won titles but I’m speaking more to all of the teams entering. All five are upper echelon 2nd weekend teams imo. No fools gold like I think there may have been a time or two in the past. In fact, I went back and looked and since x and the other teams joined, the conference has only had more than one sweet 16 teams three times and it’s been a max of two. I think this year the conference could easily have 3-4.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.



This is an intersting take. Compared to last year:

1. FG% up
2. 3pt FG% WAY Up
3. FT% up
4. Rebs down
5. Assists up
6. Blocks up
7. Steals same
8. Pts up

Colby has improved in almost every statistical category and has take a big jump in some. While his defense has been suspect throughout games, he has had some huge defensive stops on the opposing teams best player in late game situations. Colby was awesome last night (except at the line and with that one bad 3 attempt) I don't know how anyone could come away feeling differently.

[xavierj]

Yeah sagarin says 9 or 10 for Saturday. I’ll be absolutely floored if x covers, but I’ll take a win any way we can take them. That was one hell of a gutsy win last night.

After thinking about it and looking at schedules, I think x ends up 15-5; one game out of first with Marquette and providence sharing the title; creighton and x sitting in a tie for second or third however you want to look at it.

The top 5 in this conference (including UConn) could all do some major damage in the tourney. This is about as high as I have been on the conference entering the tourney in a month as I have been since x joined. I know nova has won titles but I’m speaking more to all of the teams entering. All five are upper echelon 2nd weekend teams imo. No fools gold like I think there may have been a time or two in the past. In fact, I went back and looked and since x and the other teams joined, the conference has only had more than one sweet 16 teams three times and it’s been a max of two. I think this year the conference could easily have 3-4.

I understand where you are coming from but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Xavier go 6-2 the rest of the way. They will beat Butler twice, win the home games and either beat Providence or Seton Hall on the road. Des will Keep getting better and the defense will actually be better the remainder of conference play. Teams have to play their best to beat Xavier too.

[Xavier]

I kind of came away with the opposite impression. Not that Colby isn't a very good player----he is. And, he played a pretty good game tonight. But I keep seeing posts in these threads identifying him as a top NBA prospect and, to me, he seems like a decent player whose had some good games for us. But he's not great. I think of a potential NBA player as someone who plays head and shoulders above the others on the court. Colby doesn't. He has offensive and defensive lapses just about every game. He is unreliable at the charity stripe. His ill-timed, late game three-point attempt tonight missed (or almost missed everything) and could have resulted in disaster. After the game, I was talking to another season ticket holder who identified the same things I did. It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.

I'm very glad he's on our side. But I keep waiting for him to play an outstanding game at both ends; to just take control. He never does.

I came away with the same thoughts. The ill-timed late 3 followed up by a really bad turnover- where it looked like he didn’t want anything to do with the ball and Nunge was not expecting a pass (why would he, smart play was Colby holding on to the ball). Just expect more from him at those times. He doesn’t flash nba to me- but I hope he gets a chance.

And I’m damn happy he is with us. He is a really good college bball player and adds so much pressure on opposing defenses…and while he had a few bonehead plays at the end, he also had a big steal. It may have been under a minute left in regulation, it was around there. Right when it happened i thought “add it to the list of big time defensive plays in the biggest moments for Colby”.

[bleedXblue]

This is an intersting take. Compared to last year:

1. FG% up
2. 3pt FG% WAY Up
3. FT% up
4. Rebs down
5. Assists up
6. Blocks up
7. Steals same
8. Pts up

Colby has improved in almost every statistical category and has take a big jump in some. While his defense has been suspect throughout games, he has had some huge defensive stops on the opposing teams best player in late game situations. Colby was awesome last night (except at the line and with that one bad 3 attempt) I don't know how anyone could come away feeling differently.

He loses focus on the court to many times and makes silly stupid mistakes too often. He's not the heady, give me the ball type of player that I though he was going to emerge into. Thats not to say he isnt one of our best, most well rounded players.

[GoMuskies]

Wow, that was such a huge, gutsy win last night! Still pumped about it this morning!

[Caveat]

I kind of came away with the opposite impression. Not that Colby isn't a very good player----he is. And, he played a pretty good game tonight. But I keep seeing posts in these threads identifying him as a top NBA prospect and, to me, he seems like a decent player whose had some good games for us. But he's not great. I think of a potential NBA player as someone who plays head and shoulders above the others on the court. Colby doesn't. He has offensive and defensive lapses just about every game. He is unreliable at the charity stripe. His ill-timed, late game three-point attempt tonight missed (or almost missed everything) and could have resulted in disaster. After the game, I was talking to another season ticket holder who identified the same things I did. It doesn't seem, to me, that Colby is that better a player this year than he was last year. Perhaps, after last season, my expectations just got too high.

I'm very glad he's on our side. But I keep waiting for him to play an outstanding game at both ends; to just take control. He never does.

Colby's very good as a shot creator, but he can't stay in front of anyone on defense.

To be fair, though -- absolutely no one on Xavier can, so he might benefit from an NBA team thinking it's a team-wide coaching issue that can be fixed.

I don't think people properly appreciate how insanely tough it is to guard in the NBA, and how little room there is in the league for people who can't defend their position.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

This is an intersting take. Compared to last year:

1. FG% up
2. 3pt FG% WAY Up
3. FT% up
4. Rebs down
5. Assists up
6. Blocks up
7. Steals same
8. Pts up

Colby has improved in almost every statistical category and has take a big jump in some. While his defense has been suspect throughout games, he has had some huge defensive stops on the opposing teams best player in late game situations. Colby was awesome last night (except at the line and with that one bad 3 attempt) I don't know how anyone could come away feeling differently.

Did not say he didn't have a good game and I'm very glad he's on our side. The gist of my post was that, over the course of the entire season, I expected him to be more dominating. Many if not most first round picks are freakish athletes, physical specimans, etc. I don't see that in Colby. I suppose that I'm a bit contrarian in that regard. Nevertheless, I stipulate the opinion of observers far more knowledgeable and experienced than me, is that Colby is a solid NBA prospect. Cooley said the same in an interview he gave at the beginning of this week. Lots of folks are saying it. I just expected him to consistently play at a very high level and I don't think I'm seeing what I expected. I admit that maybe my expectations are unrealistic and since I never watch the NBA, I don't consider myself an expert on what it takes to succeed professionally either.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not even saying Colby is a surefire NBA player. He might be, he might go 2nd round and not catch on. You are right, it is crazy competitive and great college players don't make it all the time for various reasons. I don't think a lot of Xavier fans thought Naji Marshall would have a chance in the NBA and he's crushing it after going undrafted. Just never know.

My biggest contention with your post was that Colby isnt any better this year than last. I just find that not to be true and I think the #s back me up. Do I agree Colby disappears at times, and could be more dominant or hope he would be able to take over when really needed more often? Absolutely.

[Xuperman]

My biggest contention with your post was that Colby isnt any better this year than last. I just find that not to be true and I think the #'s back me up.

He's 11-24 from the line in BE play....ELEVEN OF TWENTY FOUR! That's approaching Shaq territory, and completely unacceptable. If that doesn't drastically change, his high usage is such, that it WILL cost us in the win column.

[D-West & PO-Z]

He's 11-24 from the line in BE play....ELEVEN OF TWENTY FOUR! That's approaching Shaq territory, and completely unacceptable. If that doesn't drastically change, his high usage is such, that it WILL cost us in the win column.

Colby is having a rough stretch from the FT line so he's otherwise not better than last year? Someone has an agenda or an axe to grind. Weird....

[Roach]

Do I agree Colby disappears at times, and could be more dominant or hope he would be able to take over when really needed more often? Absolutely.

This captures my thoughts well, insofar as Colby’s areas for improvement are concerned. In my opinion, his most glaring weakness is that he frequently needs to be more assertive. I’m not sure what explains it, maybe a lack of confidence, too inclined to fatigue, or believing he needs to spread the ball around more. Whatever the case, I admittedly find myself complaining on occasion that he’s disappeared from the game, especially whenever we’re in the midst of squandering a big lead, which remains a huge problem for this team.

[paulxu]

I know every thread has to have an obligatory bash Steele and Kunkel entry.

Are they going to need a Colby entry now?

[IM4X]

I understand where you are coming from but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Xavier go 6-2 the rest of the way. They will beat Butler twice, win the home games and either beat Providence or Seton Hall on the road. Des will Keep getting better and the defense will actually be better the remainder of conference play. Teams have to play their best to beat Xavier too.

This would appear to be a little more plausible, if we still had Zach. I agree with you that it can be done, but without Free, our 6 key players are getting tired quicker (each picking up some of his minutes). I think we know what happens when we try to go deeper than 6 (without Free). I will be at the Seton Hall game. That game and the Providence game are going to be really tough. Providence simply doesn’t lose at home and SH plays a notch above at their home too. We barely squeaked out a win when we played them both at Cintas. To win either game, it will require X making almost no mistakes. Crossing my fingers we get at least one of those games.

[IM4X]

I know every thread has to have an obligatory bash Steele and Kunkel entry.

Are they going to need a Colby entry now?

Every player seems to make their share of mistakes. I don’t know if any player makes up for their mistakes quite like Colby. I gotta believe we’re going to see more of the “NBA level talent” Colby ahead, but I am more than fine with him quietly taking care business - doing what the team needs him to do to win and advance.

[HenryMuto]

I watched the last shot of regulation back and it would have counted for Providence. I stopped the game when ball was out of his hand and 0.1 was still on the clock. Live I didn't think he got it off in time but wow that nearly went in and would have sucked to lose that way.

[drudy23]

Are we really bashing Colby? He's one of the best players in the conference.

[smileyy]

"Blame the 'best' player" is strong in many fanbases. Cf. Naji Marshall

[drudy23]

Also, what are we complaining about? We're in first place in a top 3 conference in all of college basketball.

What blame?

At least with Naji the team sucked.