NET Rankings

[D-West & PO-Z]

Did these just come out? Or have they been out all along? I forget how they work.

I just saw Joh Fanta tweet the BE NET rankings for each team. Looking a little rough for the BE right now.

2. UConn
33. Creighton
37. Marquette
48. Xavier
63. Butler
71. St. Johns
121. Seton Hall
145. Providence
160. Nova
161. DePaul
250. Georgetown

[paulxu]

Those are a little different that Warren Nolan's.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net

[xukeith]

Way too early. NET rankings will make sense usually in beginning of February and they don't fluctuate too much in February/March. They are analyzed by selection committee by Quad 1, 2, 3, and 4 wins/losses.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Those are a little different that Warren Nolan's.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net

The ones Fanta tweeted that I posted are straight from the NCAA website. Not sure what Warren Nolan's are, maybe his own?

[xubrew]

Those are a little different that Warren Nolan's.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net

Warren hasn't plugged them into his site yet. Check around lunchtime. Unfortunately the guy does have a real job. I don't know why he won't just quit so we can get more timely updates!!!!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Warren hasn't plugged them into his site yet. Check around lunchtime. Unfortunately the guy does have a real job. I don't know why he won't just quit so we can get more timely updates!!!!

Ah, yep, I just saw it said updated through April 4th games. When I first looked I thought that said Dec 4th. That's why I was thinking maybe they were his own rankings.

[xubrew]

Way too early. NET rankings will make sense usually in beginning of February and they don't fluctuate too much in February/March. They are analyzed by selection committee by Quad 1, 2, 3, and 4 wins/losses.

In one sense yes, but at the same time during a game the score and clock are still visible even ten seconds into the game. If Mississippi Valley leads 2-0 on Baylor that is way too early to declare an outcome, but I still like that they show it at all times. I actually wish they'd just start releasing the NET from Day 1. I mean...why not??

[xubrew]

Warren just updated his site

[D-West & PO-Z]

In one sense yes, but at the same time during a game the score and clock are still visible even ten seconds into the game. If Mississippi Valley leads 2-0 on Baylor that is way too early to declare an outcome, but I still like that they show it at all times. I actually wish they'd just start releasing the NET from Day 1. I mean...why not??

They wouldn't have any data to show from day 1, right? Unless they used data from the previous season like Kenpom and them do?

[D-West & PO-Z]

As it stands now, a road win Saturday against UC will be a Quad 3 win. Woof. Can't be upset in that one!

[paulxu]

Was that the NCAA's first NET release?

Confusing. Warren Nolan now has us at the same #48...but indicates that's DOWN 11 spots from last week.
Maybe "his" last week number??

In the last week we beat the highest ranked B12 team, West Virginia, who is #11.
Wouldn't think that would cause a slide.

Edit: WVa "gained" 62 spots by losing to us :sign-wtf:

[Xavgrad08]

Besides UConn and some good wins by Creighton Big East has not had a good non conference. Marquette also had a nice win against Baylor. I really hope no one loses to Georgetown who has become a big anchor.

[xubrew]

They wouldn't have any data to show from day 1, right? Unless they used data from the previous season like Kenpom and them do?

No, they could do it. It would be very scattershot, but you can figure efficiency, adjusted efficiency (although it would all be the same), strength of record (also pretty much all the same), pretty much right out of the gate.

[xubrew]

Was that the NCAA's first NET release?

Confusing. Warren Nolan now has us at the same #48...but indicates that's DOWN 11 spots from last week.
Maybe "his" last week number??

In the last week we beat the highest ranked B12 team, West Virginia, who is #11.
Wouldn't think that would cause a slide.

Edit: WVa "gained" 62 spots by losing to us :sign-wtf:

It's "DOWN 11" from the final NET rankings from a year ago. I'm pretty sure he has all that pre-programmed, and rather than do a bunch of tedious adjustments for one week, he just leaves it be.

The NCAA does run it every week for the committee and I guess for whoever else wants it. I think they run it every day. They just don't release it to the public until December.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Was that the NCAA's first NET release?

Confusing. Warren Nolan now has us at the same #48...but indicates that's DOWN 11 spots from last week.
Maybe "his" last week number??

In the last week we beat the highest ranked B12 team, West Virginia, who is #11.
Wouldn't think that would cause a slide.

Edit: WVa "gained" 62 spots by losing to us :sign-wtf:

I think it is referring to the last rankings that were done which was April 4th last year, the rankings you saw when you originally looked today before he updated.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No, they could do it. It would be very scattershot, but you can figure efficiency, adjusted efficiency (although it would all be the same), strength of record (also pretty much all the same), pretty much right out of the gate.

If it is all the same and there have been no games played how do they do it?

[paulxu]

It's "DOWN 11" from the final NET rankings from a year ago.


I think it is referring to the last rankings that were done which was April 4th last year, the rankings you saw when you originally looked today before he updated.

Thanks!

[xubrew]

If it is all the same and there have been no games played how do they do it?

The "adjustment" would just be zero until a second game is played.

[xavierj]

Besides UConn and some good wins by Creighton Big East has not had a good non conference. Marquette also had a nice win against Baylor. I really hope no one loses to Georgetown who has become a big anchor.

Yeah this is a year the top 4 or 5 need to separate themselves and beat each other but not take bad losses to the bottom.

[zippin']

Why do they even release the NET ratings this early when they don't mean anything until like February? Is it just to drive conversation?

[xubrew]

Why do they even release the NET ratings this early when they don't mean anything until like February? Is it just to drive conversation?

Why not??

Why do they show the score of the game when it’s only 2-0 and there’s still 39 minutes to play??

[X-band '01]

Best game on Saturday outside of the Shootout?

#361 Louisville goes to #293 Florida State. There are 363 teams in the NET rankings.

[Smooth]

Best game on Saturday outside of the Shootout?

#361 Louisville goes to #293 Florida State. There are 363 teams in the NET rankings.

That's because Louisville is a football school now.

[GoMuskies]

That's because Louisville is a football school now.

Volleyball

[X-band '01]

Louisville and Pitt if you want to go there.

[paulxu]

Fun times!


Bracketologists.com
@netbracket
The NCAA appears to have adjusted the SOS formula this year drastically. Until recently they used the same SOS formula as the old RPI rankings. Several teams now are hundreds of spots different than where they were using that formula.

They do have a nice website to look up your team's information:

https://bracketologists.com/

Edit: they even have a link to this site on Xavier's tab !

[drudy23]

Fun times!



They do have a nice website to look up your team's information:

https://bracketologists.com/

Edit: they even have a link to this site on Xavier's tab !

I don't like the feel of 48th - we've got some work to do. Getting another one of Duke, Gonzaga and Indiana would have been huge, and all were there for the taking. We are going to have to win a few high profile Big East games.

[noteggs]

Guess after we beat SucKS ass on Saturday, it’s only going to be Q3 win based off the link. Ouch

[D-West & PO-Z]

Guess after we beat SucKS ass on Saturday, it’s only going to be Q3 win based off the link. Ouch

Yep. Woof. Can't lose.

[xukeith]

Fun times!



They do have a nice website to look up your team's information:

https://bracketologists.com/

Edit: they even have a link to this site on Xavier's tab !

Great find!

[XUMIOH12]

Moved up to 43 yesterday and fall back to 44 today. Sam Houston has dropped from 7 to 22 this week, I'll wait until they fall out of the top 50 at least before putting too much thought in to the NET rankings.

[whopper]

with gonzaga at HOME beating ball state by 6 and trailing by 5 with 2 min to go i just think it is time to look at wins and losses. These stories are happening every day. I note sadly that THREE band members from Southern U were killed changing a tiire and wonder if it will effect next week game. They were famous for their band. How sad..

[xukeith]

Kent St /Ball State, they sound like MAC schools.

[whopper]

it was Kent State(not Ball) a bye game for us last year but was as close to Gonzaga as we were this year. UConn (my alma mater not loved by me) is getting a lot of press and one prominent web site shows them favored for every home and road game going forward. Smart hoop people i know (ex coaches, players) compare Sanogo to young Akeem and Klingon (freshman _ went 8-9 against Florida ) and crushed Casleton et al. It will be all hands on deck NYE for sure and other versatile players. They have moved ahead of Creighton as the fashionable choice. Looking forward to NYE as uconn rated 2 on bracketoligists. Would love to stick it to UConn friends..

[Masterofreality]

Hey Whopper!!
Are your real initials KP?? :-)

[xubrew]

it was Kent State(not Ball) a bye game for us last year but was as close to Gonzaga as we were this year. UConn (my alma mater not loved by me) is getting a lot of press and one prominent web site shows them favored for every home and road game going forward. Smart hoop people i know (ex coaches, players) compare Sanogo to young Akeem and Klingon (freshman _ went 8-9 against Florida ) and crushed Casleton et al. It will be all hands on deck NYE for sure and other versatile players. They have moved ahead of Creighton as the fashionable choice. Looking forward to NYE as uconn rated 2 on bracketoligists. Would love to stick it to UConn friends..

Kent State is freakin' good this year. They may be one of the best defensive teams in the country. They aren't quite as good offensively, but they are tough to score against. They also had a lead at Houston with less than a minute to go. It sucks that they played so well against Houston and Gonzaga and came up empty. If they were playing...say...Ohio State and Washington they probably win both games (or at least one of them) and suddenly everyone notices them.

But, they're good. If they stay healthy they may come close to winning all the rest of their games.

[Xavier]

Yep. Kent state is really tough, teams won’t be thrilled to see them in March.

[whopper]

Hey Whopper!!
Are your real initials KP?? :-)

no just an alumni dad of 2 X grads in health care who moved to kenwood in retirement. Love hoops at age 66 would still play if not for a recent health issue. I was the biiggest X fan in tri state (lived in Conn) who hit the seton hall and prov local games from Conn.. UConn is scary good though(and i am not happy as an alum considered a traitor). When X beat UConn last year i walked in to irish club local to a chorus of boos

[Masterofreality]

Kent State is freakin' good this year. They may be one of the best defensive teams in the country. They aren't quite as good offensively, but they are tough to score against. They also had a lead at Houston with less than a minute to go. It sucks that they played so well against Houston and Gonzaga and came up empty. If they were playing...say...Ohio State and Washington they probably win both games (or at least one of them) and suddenly everyone notices them.

But, they're good. If they stay healthy they may come close to winning all the rest of their games.

Wait!? Are you saying they will “Steal the MAC from Steele?”

[Masterofreality]

We’re back ranked folks!

22 in the AP this week!

[xudash]

no just an alumni dad of 2 X grads in health care who moved to kenwood in retirement. Love hoops at age 66 would still play if not for a recent health issue. I was the biiggest X fan in tri state (lived in Conn) who hit the seton hall and prov local games from Conn.. UConn is scary good though(and i am not happy as an alum considered a traitor). When X beat UConn last year i walked in to irish club local to a chorus of boos

Now that's funny.

[XU 87]

We’re back ranked folks!

22 in the AP this week!

It's nice to be back.

[X-band '01]

22 AP, 25 Coaches.

No more sneaking around for this team.

[muskiefan82]

They really want a ranked meeting between the Huskies and Muskies

[D-West & PO-Z]

Decent jump for X after last night.

Went from #36 to #27 in the NET rankings.

Unfortunately St. Johns got further from a Quad 1 win, falling from 89 to 96.

That WVU win is looking to be huge, as they are our only Quad 1 win and they sit at #10 in the NET.

Big opportunity to pick up our 2nd Q1 win Saturday. UConn is #2 in the NET (fell from #1 yesterday).

[Masterofreality]

Up to #20 in both NCAA NET and Pomeroy ranking.
Up to 16 in TRank!
Keep it rolling!!!

[xukeith]

#18 in masseyratings.com too!

[Masterofreality]

18 in the AP Poll this week.
And how about the Fighting Pat Kelsey’s checking in at 23!!

[paulxu]

Wonder why our NET slipped from 20 to 21.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

[X-man]

Wonder why our NET slipped from 20 to 21.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

Maybe it was because UC lost to Temple yesterday.

[Xville]

Initially I was disappointed in only being 18 but after seeing the teams ahead, I guess that’s about where they should be right now. Keep winning, and obviously will keep moving up.

[paulxu]

Our 3 loses are still ahead of us, but we're catching up.

[paulxu]

After a re-shuffle, moved from 26th back to 19th.

[stammina0721]

Our three losses are paying huge dividends now. This team was battle tested. I have zero doubt if we faced any of those teams now that X would beat all of them.

To be honest I only see Providence as X's only real competition in this league. Marquette will be tough on the road, but Ed Cooley has those guys playing at a different level. Providence might be the quietest underdog in all of college hoops right now despite their ranking.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Xavier is #19 in the NET.

Only 3 teams have at least 8 Q1/Q2 wins right now. Kansas (10), Alabama (8), Xavier (8).

Only 5 teams are undefeated on the road with at lest 4 wins. Houston, Purdue, Alabama, UCLA, Xavier.

[Masterofreality]

Xavier is #19 in the NET.

Only 3 teams have at least 8 Q1/Q2 wins right now. Kansas (10), Alabama (8), Xavier (8).

Only 5 teams are undefeated on the road with at lest 4 wins. Houston, Purdue, Alabama, UCLA, Xavier.

This is awesome.

[bleedXblue]

Creighton with 8 losses is still at 26.

[GoMuskies]

Creighton (9-8) is one spot ahead of Xavier (14-3) in KenPom after last night. Based on what I saw last night, I can't argue with that, really. These teams are pretty similar despite the disparity in record.

And Sagarin would still make us slight underdogs to Creighton on a neutral floor.

[paulxu]

Some crazy things in the NET.

The Big 12 conference # is 50 points better than the Big East.

Houston has 10 Quad 4 wins, and is still #1.

[muskiefan82]

Creighton (9-8) is one spot ahead of Xavier (14-3) in KenPom after last night. Based on what I saw last night, I can't argue with that, really. These teams are pretty similar despite the disparity in record.

And Sagarin would still make us slight underdogs to Creighton on a neutral floor.

Those losses when they had injuries have to be accounted for somehow. That team from last night is REALLY good. Frightening when they shoot well. I still expect them to perform well and get an invite in the end. They are better than I thought and I already thought they were good

[D-West & PO-Z]

Creighton (9-8) is one spot ahead of Xavier (14-3) in KenPom after last night. Based on what I saw last night, I can't argue with that, really. These teams are pretty similar despite the disparity in record.

And Sagarin would still make us slight underdogs to Creighton on a neutral floor.

I think Creighton will beat us in Omaha and neutral court would be anyones game.

Unfortunately for Creighton the losses piling up are going to come into play at some point. Hopefully they get some consideration from the committee for their injuries. I also think they could easily turn it on and crank out some wins. I am sure they are kicking themselves for letting last night get away, would have been big for them.

They need to hold serve at home and steal some on the road which they are def capable of.

[X-band '01]

Unfortunately, Kalkbrenner was playing when Creighton peed down their leg against Nebraska. Hard to argue about being injured when they're losing bad games with a healthy roster.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Teams with 9 or more combined Q1/Q2 wins:

Kansas (11)
Xavier (9)

Xavier is 5-2 in Q1 games.

St. Johns is #78 in NET, 3 spots away from becoming Xavier's 6th Q1 win.

[xukeith]

Seton Hall has #64 NET.
If they get hot, they might be in "bubble" conversation.

[X-band '01]

So would the Johnnies had they won at either Seton Hall or Villanova. We may be at the point where Nova is a bad loss for the Johnnies.

[paulxu]

Just don't understand this whole NET deal.
UConn went down one, from 6 to 7. We went up a few, from 25 to 22.
Creighton is at 20, with 1-5 Quad 1 record.

Makes no sense to me. Maybe the DePaul loss really hurt us; but both UConn and Creighton have a Quad 3 loss also.

[Xville]

Just don't understand this whole NET deal.
UConn went down one, from 6 to 7. We went up a few, from 25 to 22.
Creighton is at 20, with 1-5 Quad 1 record.

Makes no sense to me. Maybe the DePaul loss really hurt us; but both UConn and Creighton have a Quad 3 loss also.

No one understands the net because the math I don’t believe has ever been released. I think it’s pure garbage to be honest.

St Mary’s is sixth… why? Their best win is sdsu on their home court, after that it’s a bunch of
Meh and they have 1 quad 1 win, 2 quad 3 losses. It’s a bunch of crap

[Tim]

I didn't think anything could be worse than the RPI but here we are.

[GoMuskies]

NET is pretty close to KenPom for all of UConn, St. Mary's, Creighton and Xavier. That alone makes it a huge improvement over RPI.

[D-West & PO-Z]

NET is pretty close to KenPom for all of UConn, St. Mary's, Creighton and Xavier. That alone makes it a huge improvement over RPI.

So does anyone know why KenPom has Saint Mary's so high? 2 quad 3 losses. 1 Quad 1 win.

11 of their 17 wins are against Q3 or Q4.

Does it have to do with efficiency numbers or something?

[GoMuskies]

So does anyone know why KenPom has Saint Mary's so high? 2 quad 3 losses. 1 Quad 1 win.

It's a pure efficiency rating. KenPom's ratings don't really have anything to do with wins and losses, but obviously having more efficient offense and defense generally correlates pretty well with winning. But not always!

[GoMuskies]

Speaking of Ken, Xavier now has the fourth best offense in America according to his rankings, behind only Marquette, Baylor and Gonzaga.

[GoMuskies]

Going for a record on number of posts in a row....

To complete the computer ranking trifecta, Sagarin generally rates those four squads similarly as well after last nights games:
St. Mary's #6
UConn #8
Creighton #12
Xavier #17

[Xville]

Going for a record on number of posts in a row....

To complete the computer ranking trifecta, Sagarin generally rates those four squads similarly as well after last nights games:
St. Mary's #6
UConn #8
Creighton #12
Xavier #17

Appreciate this! I love data and numbers but this is where I think it can get a bit sideways. I’ll take Xavier over any of those teams on a neutral floor, and in St. Marys case, give me a break.

Curious, are the efficiency numbers weighted based on who you play and adjusted accordingly? I’d think they are, but then if that’s the case, o still don’t understand how st Mary’s could be that high.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Pretty sure UConn moved up one and we stayed the same in the NET.

[GoMuskies]

I really know nothing about St. Mary's. I suspect Xavier is a better team, but I'll say this: if we're a #3 seed, I'd prefer not to end up with them as the #6 we have to face. Something about SMC is telling the computers that SMC is pretty elite, and I'd prefer some other 3 seed prove those computers wrong!

[X Factor]

I swear they added a Sean Miller bias into their formula this year.

[xubrew]

So about the NET....

I know what each of the variables are that go into it and I know how to calculate each variable. What I DO NOT know is the sliding scale that is applied. It's not 1/5th for each of the five variables. It's actually different for each team depending on how big of an outlier one of the variables may be. In other words, if the rankings are 2, 3, 87, 8, and 4....it will devalue the 87.

In the case of UConn, you need to remember that what the teams are doing that you played in November are continuing to factor in to the adjusted efficiency and strength of record variables. UConn has neutral floor wins over Alabama and Iowa State and both were blowouts. When you look at each of those two games and the value of the adjusted efficiency units they get for those two games based on how well those two teams are playing now and given that it was a neutral court game, they're rankings keep going up and up and up. Same with the road win at Florida. Florida is now winning a lot at home, so the adjusted efficiency of the opponent and where the game is played keeps pushing UConn up even though they've been losing lately. The thing about UConn's losses is that MOST have either been on the road or to other teams with high strengths of record and high efficiency ratings, so they're not getting dinged that badly in the adjusted efficiency component or the team value index component.

Saint Mary's is the perfect case study on how to game the NET. For the record, I like this Saint Mary's team and do believe them to be legit good. Just not quite #6 in the nation good. But, when you play on the road against teams that win a lot at home, or teams that win a lot period, even if those teams aren't from power leagues, the NET will explode. Oral Roberts, Santa Clara, and North Texas are all teams with bloated records and Saint Mary's has beaten all of them, and beaten a few of them either on the road or away from home. Their two losses to Houston and New Mexico were both close games. The adjusted efficiency part doesn't care if they won or lost a game. It just cares that they performed well offensively against a good defense, and performed well defensively against a good offense, so they would have actually gone UP in those categories even though they lost the games. As for the TVI part of it, losing to Houston or New Mexico isn't going to hurt you AT ALL.

Other things to keep in mind. The NET is not adjusted for itself. In other words, what another team's NET is has no impact at all on your own NET. The only thing that matters is the adjusted efficiency (how offensively and defensively good or bad was the team, and how good or bad was that team on a home, neutral, or road site), and the overall team value index, which is basically who did you play, where did you play them, and how good is that team in the location that you played them? Beating Duke at home may impress some people because it's Duke and their NET is relatively good. In reality, Duke is an awful road team. Their only road win was at Boston College by a point. So when teams beat Duke and then check to the NET and realize they didn't move up at all, or in some cases may have even moved down...that's why.

I know this may SOUND crazy, but if you dive into the data it does make sense. Xavier's NET isn't bad AT ALL, but the reason it's not top ten is because of a neutral loss to a Duke team that hans't been that good away from Cameron, and a loss at home to an Indiana team that isn't exactly a road warrior either. The loss at DePaul doesn't help, but Duke and Indiana are dragging it down as well because of where those games were played and how those teams have performed on the road. Indiana won at Minnesota last night, but BARELY, and when you throw that into the adjusted efficiency, it lowers it.

[Xville]

So about the NET....

I know what each of the variables are that go into it and I know how to calculate each variable. What I DO NOT know the sliding scale that is applied. It's not 1/5th for each of the five variables. It's actually different for each team depending on what big of an outlier one of the variables may be. In other words, if the rankings are 2, 3, 87, 8, and 4....it will devalue the 87.

In the case of UConn, you need to remember that what the teams are doing that you played in November are continuing to factor in to the adjusted efficiency and strength of record variables. UConn has neutral floor wins over Alabama and Iowa State and both were blowouts. When you look at each of those two games and the value of the adjusted efficiency units they get for those two games based on how well those two teams are playing now and given that it was a neutral court game, they're rankings keep going up and up and up. Same with the road win at Florida. Florida is now winning a lot at home, so the adjusted efficiency of the opponent and where the game is played keeps pushing UConn up even though they've been losing lately. The thing about UConn's losses is that MOST have either been on the road or to other teams with high strengths of record and high efficiency ratings, so they're not getting dinged that badly in the adjusted efficiency component or the team value index component.

Saint Mary's is the perfect case study on how to game the NET. For the record, I like this Saint Mary's team and do believe them to be legit good. Just not quote #6 in the nation good. But, when you play on the road against teams that win a lot at home, or teams that win a lot period, even if those teams aren't from power leagues, the NET will explode. Oral Roberts, Santa Clara, and North Texas are all teams with bloated records and Saint Mary's has beaten all of them, and beaten a few of them either on the road or away from home. Their two losses to Houston and New Mexico were both close games. The adjust efficiency part doesn't care if they won or lost a game. It just cares that they performed well offensively against a good defense, and performed well defensively against a good offense, so they would have actually gone UP in those categories even though they lost the games. As for the TVI part of it, losing to Houston or New Mexico isn't going to hurt you AT ALL.

Other things to keep in mind. The NET is not adjusted for itself. In other words, what another team's NET is has no impact at all on your own NET. The only thing that matters is the adjusted efficiency (how offensively and defensively good or bad was the team, and how good or bad was that team on a home, neutral, or road site), and the overall team value index, which is basically who did you play, where did you play them, and how good is that team in the location that you played them? Beating Duke at home may impress some people because it's Duke and their NET is relatively good. In reality, Duke is an awful road team. Their only road win was at Boston College by a point. So when teams beat Duke and then check to the NET and realize they didn't move up at all, or in some cases may have even moved down...that's why.

I know this may SOUND crazy, but if you dive into the data it does make sense. Xavier's NET isn't bad AT ALL, but the reason it's not top ten is because of a neutral loss to a Duke team that hans't been that good away from Cameron, and a loss at home to an Indiana team that isn't exactly a road warrior either. The loss at DePaul doesn't help, but Duke and Indiana are dragging it down as well because of where those games were played and how those teams have performed on the road. Indiana won at Minnesota last night, but BARELY, and when you throw that into the adjusted efficiency, it lowers it.

Thank you for this, and I now at least understand better how they are getting to those numbers. I just don’t know if I agree with it being utilized as a tool then.

[xubrew]

Thank you for this, and I now at least understand better how they are getting to those numbers. I just don’t know if I agree with it being utilized as a tool then.

The only thing it's really used for is to determine how information gets sorted onto a paper. That's really it. It's not a deciding factor in anything. I don't think it's even all that influential, TBH.

[paulxu]

Pretty sure UConn moved up one and we stayed the same in the NET.

UConn moved down one (6 to 7), we moved up 3 (25 to 22).

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings

[Xville]

The only thing it's really used for is to determine how information gets sorted onto a paper. That's really it. It's not a deciding factor in anything. I don't think it's even all that influential, TBH.

Huh? The selection committee definitely uses it as one of the tools for the selection process and seeding. They have said numerous times for numerous years they use the quad wins and losses as a selection process and for seeding

[paulxu]

I think Warren Nolan still calculates the RPI as it was in the past.
Per that calculation, we are 16, and UConn is 33.

https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/rpi-live

[xubrew]

Huh? The selection committee definitely uses it as one of the tools for the selection process and seeding. They have said numerous times for numerous years they use the quad wins and losses as a selection process and for seeding

Oh they use it to sort out the quad 1 wins and losses, but it's almost better to have a piss poor NET with a lot of quad 1 wins than a NET like Saint Mary's with no wins.

And...this is all done by computers now. The Committee can actually use other metrics to sort the teamsheets if they want. If they want to look at the NET, they can. If they want to see what a team sheet looks like with KenPom instead of the NET, they can. All the NET REALLY does is sort things onto a page.

It's been my belief for over 20 years that while the metrics, and ratings, and all that stuff is important and can be a strong indicator of who will be selected and where they'll be seeded, but at the end of the day it's a process by committee. What's most important is what the members of that year's committee feel is most important. ADs and commissioners simply don't do the data deep dives to the extent that a lot of "bracketologists" do it, or at the very least they don't do it in the same way. Some of them don't really understand how the metrics even work. They're really just assessing the values of the wins and losses, and they know if a team wins a game that they feel is hard to win that they'll give them credit for it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The only thing it's really used for is to determine how information gets sorted onto a paper. That's really it. It's not a deciding factor in anything. I don't think it's even all that influential, TBH.

Well the Quad 1 and 2 wins seem like they weigh pretty heavy on the committee, right? And those wins are determined by where a teams NET ranking falls. Seems pretty influential to me.

Not saying it is bad, and I get Xavier being 20 something doesnt correlate to a 5 or 6 seed or whatever, but the quad 1 and 2 wins seem to really matter to the committee.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Huh? The selection committee definitely uses it as one of the tools for the selection process and seeding. They have said numerous times for numerous years they use the quad wins and losses as a selection process and for seeding

Sorry, didn't see your reply before mine. But I agree.

[xubrew]

Well the Quad 1 and 2 wins seem like they weigh pretty heavy on the committee, right? And those wins are determined by where a teams NET ranking falls. Seems pretty influential to me.

Not saying it is bad, and I get Xavier being 20 something doesnt correlate to a 5 or 6 seed or whatever, but the quad 1 and 2 wins seem to really matter to the committee.

Yes, but they don't just count them up and make decisions based on that either. A team with seven quad 1 and 2 wins isn't necessarily ahead of a team that only has four or five.

Murray State was given a #7 seed last year, and I don't believe they had any wins against anyone that was even in the field. One of the reasons they got it was because they felt that winning at Morehead State, Belmont, and Memphis was hard to do. They asked themselves if a coach were to get a $100,000 bonus for doing one of the following....beat a top 40 team at home, or go on the road and win all three of those games, that almost every coach would pick the former option. So while those weren't quad 1 wins, they still got a lot of credit for winning multiple games that the committee felt were hard to win.

[xukeith]

I think X has 7 Q4 opponents that drag their SOS down a tad compared to say Marquette who has 5 Q4 opponents. That is my 2 cents.

[HenryMuto]

What a joke. Moved up from 25 to only 22 after beating then #6 NET (and still #7) UCONN on the road.............absurd

[D-West & PO-Z]

#16 in the AP Poll today
#27 in the NET rankings
#22 in KenPom rankings
#22 in Bart Torvick rankings
#19 in Sagarin rankings
#14 in Massey Ratings

[Masterofreality]

#16 in the AP Poll today
#27 in the NET rankings
#22 in KenPom rankings
#22 in Bart Torvick rankings
#19 in Sagarin rankings
#14 in Massey Ratings

Big East gonna have 5 solid teams in the Dance. Seton Hall too if they can go on a run, (not beating us)!

[muskiefan82]

This is why X wanted/needed to be in the Big East. This is what it is for. Meaningful games on most nights against high caliber teams that prepare the team for March. The future is bright with our returned, excellent coach.

[X-band '01]

Seton Hall still has Creighton and Xavier at home, but they really need to win both of those to have a serious shot at an at-large. Providence and Marquette already have Ws at The Rock.

[paulxu]

Providence is ranked #17 in the country...yet that was just a Q2 win.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Providence is ranked #17 in the country...yet that was just a Q2 win.

Yeah, nuts. But thats how much I think road wins are more valued than home wins by the committee. Or maybe by metrics? Or both?

Providence could get to a Q1 though. We will see.

[Masterofreality]

Florida won last night and moved to 41 in the NET.
Officially a Quad 1 win

[bleedXblue]

Net ranking are absurb when you have St Marys at #6

https://bballnet.com/teams/saint-marys-ca

they have 1 good win

[Masterofreality]

Net ranking are absurb when you have St Marys at #6

https://bballnet.com/teams/saint-marys-ca

they have 1 good win

The RPI was more accurate

[GoMuskies]

Net ranking are absurb when you have St Marys at #6

https://bballnet.com/teams/saint-marys-ca

they have 1 good win

Then KenPom (St. Mary's #7) and Sagarin (St. Mary's #10) are also absurd.

[HenryMuto]

Connecticut is 8
Marquette is 11
Xavier is 26

How does this make any sense

Connecticut 17-6 and 4 quad 1 wins and 3 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Marquette 18-5 and 4 quad 1 wins and 4 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Xavier 18-5 and 6 quad 1 wins and 5 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss

So X has more quad 2 more quad 1 wins then both UCONN and Marquette and has more quad 2 wins and all teams have same amount of quad 3 losses.

NET is garbage

I guess they are really penalizing X for all their close wins.

[drudy23]

Connecticut is 8
Marquette is 11
Xavier is 26

How does this make any sense

Connecticut 17-6 and 4 quad 1 wins and 3 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Marquette 18-5 and 4 quad 1 wins and 4 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Xavier 18-5 and 6 quad 1 wins and 5 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss

So X has more quad 2 more quad 1 wins then both UCONN and Marquette and has more quad 2 wins and all teams have same amount of quad 3 losses.

NET is garbage

I guess they are really penalizing X for all their close wins.

Yeah it's hard to understand how we're behind those teams with that comparison.

[xukeith]

Connecticut is 8
Marquette is 11
Xavier is 26

How does this make any sense

Connecticut 17-6 and 4 quad 1 wins and 3 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Marquette 18-5 and 4 quad 1 wins and 4 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss
Xavier 18-5 and 6 quad 1 wins and 5 quad 2 wins and 1 quad 3 loss

So X has more quad 2 more quad 1 wins then both UCONN and Marquette and has more quad 2 wins and all teams have same amount of quad 3 losses.

NET is garbage

I guess they are really penalizing X for all their close wins.

X played worse dogs in nonconference(7 Quad 4 dogs) Most in BE. . X also hasn't beat any opponent by more than 10 points.

[xavierj]

X played worse dogs in nonconference(7 Quad 4 dogs) Most in BE. . X also hasn't beat any opponent by more than 10 points.

This is confusing. Not sure what you are referencing on beating no one more than 10 points. If you are talking quad 1 or 2 that is correct but they have 7 wins more than 10 on the season. Also I think Providence played 8 quad 4 in the non conference.

[xukeith]

X has a lot of Quad 1 and 2 wins but X also has 7 quad 4 wins.
In the top 25 of NET ratings only Houston, TCU, Florida Atlantic and Duke have more quad 4 wins. .

I am just guesing at the reason why X does not move up in NET ratings.

That might be 1 reason X doesn't ascend up the ratings.

[Xville]

No one knows the math of the net but I’m assuming since they all are very similar in rank that it is some kind of combo of kenpom and sagarin. I think some of those stats have some validity and some of it is complete crap. No one is going to convince me that st Mary’s is 6-7th in the country at anything.

[HenryMuto]

West Virginia is 24 at 13-9 with a 5-9 quad 1 record they have 6 quad 4 wins (2-7 in the Big 12)

The Big 12 is so good you can be in 9th place and still be ahead of X in the NET rankings

Boise State is at 21 with 2 quad 1 wins and a quad 4 record of 5-1

[noteggs]

When you have a team like OSU ranked 29 with a 11-10 record- garbage in garbage out. NET is joke…unless it helps X.

[GoMuskies]

KenPom has Ohio State #27. Clearly NET is an efficiency rating.

[noteggs]

Oh absolutely. Metrics are a good thing. So is the eye test. This was my biggest complaint with Steele. He would spend 50% of a timeout looking at the analytics vs coaching the situation. Paralysis by analysis sucks at times. Not really apples to apples comparison, but that drove me freaking crazy!

[X-band '01]

Fortuntately we won't be hearing about the Buckeyes for much longer.

Did anyone see Chris Holtmann's ejection late in the first half? O$U went from 10 down to 16 down after 4 free throws and a last-second Wisconsin shot.

[paulxu]

I don't know about "efficiency" ratings, but clearly this seems way out of wack.

UConn is #8. We're #26.

We've beaten UConn twice.
We are 6-4 in Q1; they are 4-5
We are 5-0 in Q2; they are 3-0
We are 0-1 in Q3; they are 4-1
We are 7-0 in Q4; they are 6-0

So, we play more Q1 and 2, while they play more Q3...and the difference in Q4 is 1 game.

Just seems crazy.

[xubrew]

I don't know about "efficiency" ratings, but clearly this seems way out of wack.

UConn is #8. We're #26.

We've beaten UConn twice.
We are 6-4 in Q1; they are 4-5
We are 5-0 in Q2; they are 3-0
We are 0-1 in Q3; they are 4-1
We are 7-0 in Q4; they are 6-0

So, we play more Q1 and 2, while they play more Q3...and the difference in Q4 is 1 game.

Just seems crazy.

Whether you win or lose games has nothing to do with your efficiency rating.

In its simplest form, offensive efficiency is points per 100 possessions. Defensive efficiency is the same, but it's points given up per 100 possessions. Total efficiency is the combination of those two things. ADJUSTED efficiency can literally be an infinite number of different things depending on how you decide to adjust it, but the concept is that it takes into account how good (or bad) the efficiency of the teams you're playing are and makes an 'adjustment.' It would sort of be like in baseball if you would adjust a batting average to account for how good or bad the pitcher's ERA was.

How many games you win, what quad those teams are in, etc, does not matter at all to an efficiency rating. It would be like in baseball if you didn't look at a team's wins and losses, and merely ranked them on batting averages, runs scored, ERA, etc.

[xu82]

I don't know about "efficiency" ratings, but clearly this seems way out of wack.

UConn is #8. We're #26.

We've beaten UConn twice.
We are 6-4 in Q1; they are 4-5
We are 5-0 in Q2; they are 3-0
We are 0-1 in Q3; they are 4-1
We are 7-0 in Q4; they are 6-0

So, we play more Q1 and 2, while they play more Q3...and the difference in Q4 is 1 game.

Just seems crazy.

Paul, I had not seen it laid out that way, but you make a fine point. That looks CRAZY. The common competition makes a good point, but beating them head to head twice makes it look insane!

[atljar]

Whether you win or lose games has nothing to do with your efficiency rating.

In its simplest form, offensive efficiency is points per 100 possessions. Defensive efficiency is the same, but it's points given up per 100 possessions. Total efficiency is the combination of those two things. ADJUSTED efficiency can literally be an infinite number of different things depending on how you decide to adjust it, but the concept is that it takes into account how good (or bad) the efficiency of the teams you're playing are and makes an 'adjustment.' It would sort of be like in baseball if you would adjust a batting average to account for how good or bad the pitcher's ERA was.

How many games you win, what quad those teams are in, etc, does not matter at all to an efficiency rating. It would be like in baseball if you didn't look at a team's wins and losses, and merely ranked them on batting averages, runs scored, ERA, etc.

So what you are saying is our defense is really really bad. Got it

[xubrew]

So what you are saying is our defense is really really bad. Got it

Defense could be better. There are two games in particular that I think zapped Xavier's adjusted defensive efficiency. I'm not saying it would be top ten without these two games, but I do think it would be noticeably better. Both were wins, and both were against the same team. (EDIT: I'll stop being a dick and speaking in riddles. It's Georgetown)

But...I can confidently say that NONE of this matters as much as a lot of people think it does. The NET is used as a sorting tool. That's it. The committee members really do do their own thinking. I'd be STUNNED if any of them think Xavier should not be higher on the seedlist than UConn right now.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It is kind of crazy that our home win against WVU is a Quad 1 win because WVU is ranked in the top 25 of the NET but if the tournament started today WVU would maybe be a last 4 in team playing in Dayton. Good for us, but probably pretty ridiculous they are a Quad 1 win. And the NET might be a "sorting tool" but Quad 1 wins are valued highly by the committee and the NET is what determines who is or isn't a Quad 1 win.

[xubrew]

It is kind of crazy that our home win against WVU is a Quad 1 win because WVU is ranked in the top 25 of the NET but if the tournament started today WVU would maybe be a last 4 in team playing in Dayton. Good for us, but probably pretty ridiculous they are a Quad 1 win. And the NET might be a "sorting tool" but Quad 1 wins are valued highly by the committee and the NET is what determines who is or isn't a Quad 1 win.

I bet the committee doesn't value THAT quad 1 win as much as some others. In fact if I were a betting man, I'd bet quite a bit of money that the committee members tasked with monitoring the Big 12 and Big East would say "West Virginia is not a good road team. They're just 2-5 in road games. So, that win isn't on the level that most quad 1 wins are on." The committee members don't let the NET or the team sheets do their thinking for them. They really don't. A lot of bracketologists probably do, but the committee does not. They will routinely value some quad 2 wins more than some quad 1 wins after examining things just a little further. I feel absolutely certain about that.

[MHettel]

Whether you win or lose games has nothing to do with your efficiency rating.

In its simplest form, offensive efficiency is points per 100 possessions. Defensive efficiency is the same, but it's points given up per 100 possessions. Total efficiency is the combination of those two things. ADJUSTED efficiency can literally be an infinite number of different things depending on how you decide to adjust it, but the concept is that it takes into account how good (or bad) the efficiency of the teams you're playing are and makes an 'adjustment.' It would sort of be like in baseball if you would adjust a batting average to account for how good or bad the pitcher's ERA was.



I dont think your description is correct. The Net is not "offensive efficiency" combined with "defensive efficiency" with some secret sauce added. Offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency are metrics in and of themselves. They stand alone.

I "think" the NET metric is based on who you played, where you played, what the tempo is, and how much you won or lost by. Would the NET rating track closely to a hybrid of the offensive and defensive efficiency rating? yeah, probably. Why wouldnt it?

But I think you are suggesting that the offensive and defensive efficincy ratings are calculated seperately as step 1, and then they are combined in a second step to establish the NET.

By the way, i was an RPI guru. i do not follow these new metrics nearly as closely, mostly due to the black box nature of them.

Unrelated, I'd love to have a discussion about the flaws of Baseball WAR.....

[JTG]

I saw some FF odds yesterday. UConn 18-1, Marquette & Creighton 40-1, X & Prov 50-1. Evidently Vegas thinks Hurley will get his head out of his ass, and that X is strictly fools gold. Time to shock the world.

[xubrew]

I dont think your description is correct. The Net is not "offensive efficiency" combined with "defensive efficiency" with some secret sauce added. Offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency are metrics in and of themselves. They stand alone.

I "think" the NET metric is based on who you played, where you played, what the tempo is, and how much you won or lost by. Would the NET rating track closely to a hybrid of the offensive and defensive efficiency rating? yeah, probably. Why wouldnt it?

But I think you are suggesting that the offensive and defensive efficincy ratings are calculated seperately as step 1, and then they are combined in a second step to establish the NET.

By the way, i was an RPI guru. i do not follow these new metrics nearly as closely, mostly due to the black box nature of them.

Unrelated, I'd love to have a discussion about the flaws of Baseball WAR.....

The NET is five different variables with adjusted efficiency being one of them. He said "I don't know about efficiency ratings," so I explained basically how they worked. I wasn't talking about the whole NET. Just one part of it.

[xudash]

I saw some FF odds yesterday. UConn 18-1, Marquette & Creighton 40-1, X & Prov 50-1. Evidently Vegas thinks Hurley will get his head out of his ass, and that X is strictly fools gold. Time to shock the world.

The fact that this conversation is being held in February with Xavier in it is refreshing beyond belief.

Yes, time to shock the world. Give me Sean Miller. I like our chances.

[Xville]

I saw some FF odds yesterday. UConn 18-1, Marquette & Creighton 40-1, X & Prov 50-1. Evidently Vegas thinks Hurley will get his head out of his ass, and that X is strictly fools gold. Time to shock the world.

Makes sense. Vegas looks at x’s defense and laughs. I love x but I’d be less shocked if they lose on the first round than make the ff

[MHettel]

The NET is five different variables with adjusted efficiency being one of them. He said "I don't know about efficiency ratings," so I explained basically how they worked. I wasn't talking about the whole NET. Just one part of it.

got it

[HenryMuto]

It is kind of crazy that our home win against WVU is a Quad 1 win because WVU is ranked in the top 25 of the NET but if the tournament started today WVU would maybe be a last 4 in team playing in Dayton. Good for us, but probably pretty ridiculous they are a Quad 1 win. And the NET might be a "sorting tool" but Quad 1 wins are valued highly by the committee and the NET is what determines who is or isn't a Quad 1 win.

All the Big 12 teams get a quad 1 win by beating last place Texas Tech on the road this as well as beating WVU at home.

This is how good conferences can stack up extra undeserving quad 1 wins.

[Masterofreality]

The NET is five different variables with adjusted efficiency being one of them. He said "I don't know about efficiency ratings," so I explained basically how they worked. I wasn't talking about the whole NET. Just one part of it.


got it

For Hett and Brew, the Stat Masters.

Could the fact that Xavier’s thin winning margins in almost all of our games play into our relatively low NET rating relative to our record?

[X-band '01]

The NET is supposed to take into account margin of victory, but only to a point.

I know Saint Mary's has a Top 10 NET for example, but nobody is confusing them for a Top 10 team in the polls just yet. But if they blow out Gonzaga tonight, then we could plausibly start having that discussion.

[xubrew]

For Hett and Brew, the Stat Masters.

Could the fact that Xavier’s thin winning margins in almost all of our games play into our relatively low NET rating relative to our record?


The NET is supposed to take into account margin of victory, but only to a point.

I know Saint Mary's has a Top 10 NET for example, but nobody is confusing them for a Top 10 team in the polls just yet. But if they blow out Gonzaga tonight, then we could plausibly start having that discussion.

It’s also indirectly tied in with the adjuster efficiency piece. But to echo what XBand said, being lower in the NET in and of itself doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be lower on the seedlist.

[GoMuskies]

The NET is supposed to take into account margin of victory, but only to a point.

I know Saint Mary's has a Top 10 NET for example, but nobody is confusing them for a Top 10 team in the polls just yet. But if they blow out Gonzaga tonight, then we could plausibly start having that discussion.

They're going to smoke the Zags tonight. Maybe this should be in the degenerate gamblers thread.

[Xville]

They're going to smoke the Zags tonight. Maybe this should be in the degenerate gamblers thread.

Paper champion. Gonzaga rolls. Probably not since apparently it’s too hard to win on the road but still think they are exceptionally better than what I have seen of st marys

[GoMuskies]

Paper champion. Gonzaga rolls. Probably not since apparently it’s too hard to win on the road but still think they are exceptionally better than what I have seen of st marys

Well, I'm in Colorado hammered at a bar, and my Colorado FanDuel balance will be all in on SMC. Mostly because I think Gonzaga is kinda average.

[X-band '01]

I could have sworn Adam Morrison was playing for Saint Mary's tonight.

[GoMuskies]

Well, so far Gonzaga is making me feel stupid.

[Xville]

Well, I'm in Colorado hammered at a bar, and my Colorado FanDuel balance will be all in on SMC. Mostly because I think Gonzaga is kinda average.

St Mary’s is boring basketball… it’s like watching wisconsin but with even more unathletic white guys. I agree zags are average this year but at Mary’s is so overrated it isn’t funny.

[GoMuskies]

If you only count OT, SMC smoked them.

[Xville]

If you only count OT, SMC smoked them.

St Mary’s actually looked better than the previous times I watched them. Big win for them obviously

[D-West & PO-Z]

X moves up 2 spots to #24 in the NET

[D-West & PO-Z]

Xavier is now #1 in offensive efficiency in Bart Torvik's t-rank. #5 in Kenpom.

Lets ignore defensive efficiency

[Xavier]

It was only two games, both at home, but the offense not missing a beat with Freemantle out is a great sign for the offensive system Miller is implementing. Not that I doubted it at all but good to see.

[xuwillie]

It was only two games, both at home, but the offense not missing a beat with Freemantle out is a great sign for the offensive system Miller is implementing. Not that I doubted it at all but good to see.

And also a much better defensive team with hunter getting more minutes

[xukeith]

I was bored so I crunched some average ranking #s for BE teams from Sagarin, Kenpom, Massey, Barttorvik, and NET ratings

Marquette is averaging 11.4 ranking
UConn is averaging 9.4 ranking
X is averaging 19 ranking
Creighton is averaging a 18 ranking
Providence is averaging a 31 ranking
Seton Hall is averaging a 47.6 ranking

https://bracketologists.com/ is good and https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/grid is a good summary of ballots and average efficiency data.

[Caveat]

Xavier is now #1 in offensive efficiency in Bart Torvik's t-rank. #5 in Kenpom.

Lets ignore defensive efficiency

Can’t win a game 0 to -1.

I’ll take a team that gets buckets v. a team that needs to win a rock fight every game, I guess.

Also, I think Claude getting more minutes is going to improve the defensive metrics significantly.

[paulxu]

Georgetown moved up 4 spots to become a Q3 win. :flex:

[paulxu]

UC loses to Tulane (?) to become a Q2 win, instead of Q1.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I had no idea UC was a quad 1 win for a time. The obviously just dropped to move to Q2 but when did they even move in to become a Q1?

[GoMuskies]

UC loses to Tulane (?) to become a Q2 win, instead of Q1.

Having a hard time feeling bad about that one!

[paulxu]

I had no idea UC was a quad 1 win for a time. The obviously just dropped to move to Q2 but when did they even move in to become a Q1?

Briefly on Feb 1, fell out, then back in on Feb 3...now out again.

[paulxu]

Lose on the road to Marquette, and your NET goes up 2.

[Xville]

Our kenpom d went to 90, probably something to do with our net going up.

[HenryMuto]

NET is a joke how is Tennessee still #3 ?

How did Duke go from 34 to 25 to pass Xavier based on beating freaking Syracuse ?

Xavier should won by 40 yesterday maybe thay might moved us up 1 spot instead we are still 26.

Illinois lost yesterday they moved up 1 spot !

[HenryMuto]

Lose on the road to Marquette, and your NET goes up 2.

Think what a win would done ? It went up because you lost on the road to a top 15 NET team by just 1 point.

[kxblue]

NET is a joke how is Tennessee still #3 ?

How did Duke go from 34 to 25 to pass Xavier based on beating freaking Syracuse ?

Xavier should won by 40 yesterday maybe thay might moved us up 1 spot instead we are still 26.

Illinois lost yesterday they moved up 1 spot !

Duke had been awful on the road so that win def helped. If we beat Seton Hall or Providence we would likely see similar help.

I think the net seems very fair. Our entire resume hangs on beating UCONN 2x. Otherwise we feasted on quad 2 opponents (WVU, Florida, UC).

X is definitely better than earlier in the season but our profile (outside of UConn) doesn’t show it

[Strange Brew]

NET is a joke how is Tennessee still #3 ?

How did Duke go from 34 to 25 to pass Xavier based on beating freaking Syracuse ?

Xavier should won by 40 yesterday maybe thay might moved us up 1 spot instead we are still 26.

Illinois lost yesterday they moved up 1 spot !

Didn’t Duke beat us earlier? Call me crazy but that may explain it.

[xukeith]

Why does the NCAA not just let everyone know how the NET rating is computed? Who benefits from some secret rating that nobody understands?

[Strange Brew]

Why does the NCAA just let everyone know how the NET rating is computed? WHo benefits from some secret rating that nobody understands?

Haha, good point. :)

[Masterofreality]

Didn’t Duke beat us earlier? Call me crazy but that may explain it.

But it doesn’t explain how UConn, despite losing to us twice, is so far ahead of us in the NET? ;-)
Based upon the seedings Saturday though, it seems as if the Committee has a sense that that metric is pretty flawed tho.

[paulxu]

Our NET dropped like a stone to 35.
Would never had guessed that Nova would be a Quad 3 loss.

[X-band '01]

Considering it was at home and Villanova's NET is above 75, it's Tier 3 at home but X did at least get a Tier 2 win on the road back in January.

The flip side is that winning at UConn will pay huge dividends.

[novachap]

Our NET dropped like a stone to 35.
Would never had guessed that Nova would be a Quad 3 loss.


Sorry about that.... Trust me, you aren't the only one who never would have guessed it!


This was the first game all year where it appeared Nova had a deeper bench as your guys just flat out wore down--was actually only the 4th game all year all the major players suited up. Although this is still one of the worst shooting Nova teams in recent memory.

Missing Freemantle sucks ( trust me I know how frustrating it is to have key guys out). He would have made a difference for sure. The period of time where Nunge was exhausted and Dixon went to town, to me turned the game.

That said, I really like your chance come tournament time if Freemantle is back to himself. You guys are big and with Boum (despite the last play of the Nova game) you have a guaranteed free throw closer at crunch time. He is smart and good In terms of Freemantle, the impact Miller has had on him has been astounding. Frankly, last year he seemed to check out a bit in the games I saw, but man has Sean got him bought in (from what I have seen). Miller is such a step up from Steele... the set plays, the intensity and the discipline are light years better.

[XUGRAD80]

Welcome back NovaChap. It’s good to get an outsiders perspective. I think that with everyone back that Nova is going to be a tough out the rest of the year.

[noteggs]

Sorry about that.... Trust me, you aren't the only one who never would have guessed it!


This was the first game all year where it appeared Nova had a deeper bench as your guys just flat out wore down--was actually only the 4th game all year all the major players suited up. Although this is still one of the worst shooting Nova teams in recent memory.

Missing Freemantle sucks ( trust me I know how frustrating it is to have key guys out). He would have made a difference for sure. The period of time where Nunge was exhausted and Dixon went to town, to me turned the game.

That said, I really like your chance come tournament time if Freemantle is back to himself. You guys are big and with Boum (despite the last play of the Nova game) you have a guaranteed free throw closer at crunch time. He is smart and good In terms of Freemantle, the impact Miller has had on him has been astounding. Frankly, last year he seemed to check out a bit in the games I saw, but man has Sean got him bought in (from what I have seen). Miller is such a step up from Steele... the set plays, the intensity and the discipline are light years better.

Curious Chap

What are you hearing on the Nova’s interest in the Big 12?

[HenryMuto]

X back to 25

[novachap]

Hey, honestly I haven't heard much and think it would be a dumb move $ of course aside). Why relive the debacle when the Big East tried football schools. Nova dropped football once and will never get a big following although the 1AA program does ok. Philly is a pro football town, end of story. Besides, the Big East and basketball has been very good for the university.

[Masterofreality]

Hey, honestly I haven't heard much and think it would be a dumb move $ of course aside). Why relive the debacle when the Big East tried football schools. Nova dropped football once and will never get a big following although the 1AA program does ok. Philly is a pro football town, end of story. Besides, the Big East and basketball has been very good for the university.

Hi Nova! You can be a really good neighbor by knocking off Creighton at the Finn today!

[novachap]

Hi Nova! You can be a really good neighbor by knocking off Creighton at the Finn today!

Hope to, Actually in Philly for the game!

[Three Point Pete]

Game today is a BE battle. Hard to believe Nova is 83 in NET. They have a balanced squad and you never know who will be the man. Whitmore, Moore and Dixon today.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

AP Poll today 15
KenPom 16
TRank 17.
Still in 4 seed territory
Unless we somehow lose game one The BE Tourney should’t move much

[GoMuskies]

Still in 4 seed territory
Unless we somehow lose game one The BE Tourney should’t move much

Agree with that. My guess is 5 seed if we lose on Thursday, 4 seed if we lose Friday or Saturday and 3 seed if we win the whole shooting match. We shall see soon enough!

[D-West & PO-Z]

#22 in the NET
13 Q1/2 wins. Only 6 teams in the country have more.

I think we are pretty solidly a 4 seed. Could drop if we lose to Hall/DePaul, but win that game a 4 is a lock I think, unless we beat Creighton and Marquette/UConn in the championship to take BE title. I think in that scenario we could sneak up to a 3 seed.

[paulxu]

Who are the Florida Atlantic Owls? They're #15 in the NET.

[Caveat]

Who are the Florida Atlantic Owls? They're #15 in the NET.

Solid (un?)intentional dad joke here.

[muskiefan82]

Who are the Florida Atlantic Owls? They're #15 in the NET.

They are the evidence that the NET is suspect

[Three Point Pete]

#22 NET, I can't think of even 15 teams better than X, never mind 20, as we stand now without Free. Can't wrap my head around how these metrics work. Sure, we had a couple of bad games. But we had more outstanding games.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk

[X-band '01]

Agree with that. My guess is 5 seed if we lose on Thursday, 4 seed if we lose Friday or Saturday and 3 seed if we win the whole shooting match. We shall see soon enough!

Even if they lose to The Hall on Thursday, that alone would not push Xavier down to a 5. They've already beat them twice. Potentially losing a 2nd to DePaul would knock them down a seed line.


Who are the Florida Atlantic Owls? They're #15 in the NET.

They're Charleston, only against a better conference. A lot better than anything the Atlantic 10 is offering this season.

[xukeith]

West Virginia helping us out with a 15 point smack down of Texas Tech

[xavierj]

Who are the Florida Atlantic Owls? They're #15 in the NET.

They are not bad and have a very good young coach that is about to get paid. Done wonders with that program. They won at Florida this year. I think they start 5 sophomores.

[HenryMuto]

I am not sure how much this will matter this late into the season but with Villanova winning by so much last night they moved from 80 to 72 so that made 1 of our 2 quad 3 losses go away and is now a quad 2 loss as of today.

[HenryMuto]

Of course on the other end we lost a quad 1 win with Hall losing to DePaul they went from 75 to 78

[Backyard Champ]

But nova moving up to a top 75 gives us a quad 1 for beating them at nova.

[HenryMuto]

But nova moving up to a top 75 gives us a quad 1 for beating them at nova.

Ah you are right I missed that part. Good catch.

[American X]

Let's say Xavier beats Creighton and Marquette or UConn (big conditional). What are the chances of bumping Kansas State or Tennessee for a 3 seed?

[bleedXblue]

Let's say Xavier beats Creighton and Marquette or UConn (big conditional). What are the chances of bumping Kansas State or Tennessee for a 3 seed?

Small

I think we are a lock for a 4

20% chance if we win the BE Tourney

[Masterofreality]

Small

I think we are a lock for a 4

20% chance if we win the BE Tourney

Agree. Last night locked in a 4. Now House money

[xavierj]

Small

I think we are a lock for a 4

20% chance if we win the BE Tourney

I think if Tennessee loses today and Xavier wins, then Xavier jumps them. Tennessee will be 8-8 in their last 16 games and 5-7 in their last 12. They also just lost their starting PG and 2nd leading scorer, so will be interesting what the committee does with them. As for Kansas state they played an embarrassing non conference schedule. Best win was maybe Nevada or Wichita State. Lost to Butler by 12.

[bleedXblue]

I think if Tennessee loses today and Xavier wins, then Xavier jumps them. Tennessee will be 8-8 in their last 16 games and 5-7 in their last 12. They also just lost their starting PG and 2nd leading scorer, so will be interesting what the committee does with them.

good point and we lost a 15 PPG scorer as well and managed to keep winning at a good clip

If that 3 takes us out of the midwest, I would rather be the top 4 and play closer to home

[xavierj]

good point and we lost a 15 PPG scorer as well and managed to keep winning at a good clip

If that 3 takes us out of the midwest, I would rather be the top 4 and play closer to home

Agree. Would be awesome to go through Columbus/Louisville.

[HenryMuto]

No lock for a 4 seed in fact this guy who is very well regarded moved Xavier down to a 5 seed after the win yesterday because they beat a 10 win team while others were beating good teams. Iowa State picked up a huge win was hoping they would lose. I doubt we get ahead of Kansas State because the committee loved the Big 12 a month ago and not so much for Big East. Let us see what plays out but if we lose today we for sure are not locked into a 4 seed.

Updated: March 10, 2023 | 6:00 a.m. ET

To make it easier to follow, I didn’t use an actual “S” shape on the table; rather the highest seed on each line is to the left.

March 10 | 1-68
1. Alabama 2. Kansas 3. Houston 4. Purdue
5. UCLA 6. Texas 7. Arizona 8. Baylor
9. Marquette 10. Tennessee 11. Gonzaga 12. Kansas State
13. Connecticut 14. Indiana 15. Iowa State 16. Virginia
17. Xavier 18. TCU 19. Miami 20. Saint Mary’s
21. San Diego St 22. Creighton 23. Duke 24. Kentucky

[JTG]

good point and we lost a 15 PPG scorer as well and managed to keep winning at a good clip

If that 3 takes us out of the midwest, I would rather be the top 4 and play closer to home

If the Midwest means facing Kansas in KC, no thanks.

[Xville]

No lock for a 4 seed in fact this guy who is very well regarded moved Xavier down to a 5 seed after the win yesterday because they beat a 10 win team while others were beating good teams. Iowa State picked up a huge win was hoping they would lose. I doubt we get ahead of Kansas State because the committee loved the Big 12 a month ago and not so much for Big East. Let us see what plays out but if we lose today we for sure are not locked into a 4 seed.

Updated: March 10, 2023 | 6:00 a.m. ET

To make it easier to follow, I didn’t use an actual “S” shape on the table; rather the highest seed on each line is to the left.

March 10 | 1-68
1. Alabama 2. Kansas 3. Houston 4. Purdue
5. UCLA 6. Texas 7. Arizona 8. Baylor
9. Marquette 10. Tennessee 11. Gonzaga 12. Kansas State
13. Connecticut 14. Indiana 15. Iowa State 16. Virginia
17. Xavier 18. TCU 19. Miami 20. Saint Mary’s
21. San Diego St 22. Creighton 23. Duke 24. Kentucky

No offense but I don’t really care what some guy not connected to the committee is ranking teams except for funsies. The committee ranked x as a 4 and since then x has only lost to nova and won two road games. X is safely in as a 4.

[Xavier]

Yep. 4 seed lock. Outside chance of moving to a 3 if they win the big east championship

[D-West & PO-Z]

Let's say Xavier beats Creighton and Marquette or UConn (big conditional). What are the chances of bumping Kansas State or Tennessee for a 3 seed?

I'm not sure what all needs to happen but if we win the BE tourney, I'd say we have a 50+% chance at 3 seed. At least that is my made up opinion.

Edit: Error on %

[D-West & PO-Z]

Bracket matrix has us the 2nd 4 seed right now.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If the Midwest means facing Kansas in KC, no thanks.

Agreed.

[HenryMuto]

No offense but I don’t really care what some guy not connected to the committee is ranking teams except for funsies. The committee ranked x as a 4 and since then x has only lost to nova and won two road games. X is safely in as a 4.

I agree they should be a 4 seed but this guy was #1 overall twice in the last 8 years beating everyone so he does know his stuff.

Tennessee lost today that was good.

[American X]

Both Kansas State and Tennessee lost. All Xavier has to do is beat Creighton and Marquette for a #3 seed. Like Otter told the Deltas, it's in the bag.

[94GRAD]

Both Kansas State and Tennessee lost. All Xavier has to do is beat Creighton and Marquette for a #3 seed. Like Otter told the Deltas, it's in the bag.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[STL_XUfan]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Germans?!? Fuck it, he’s on a roll

[GoMuskies]

Three seeds rule.

[SkyWalker]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

I think you are right!

[SkyWalker]

Both Kansas State and Tennessee lost. All Xavier has to do is beat Creighton and Marquette for a #3 seed. Like Otter told the Deltas, it's in the bag.

I think you are more right!

[Strange Brew]

No prisoners!

[Xavier]

Committee doesn’t seem to put too much stock into conference tournaments. You have to really be eye opening in order to move up. I would think it’s at least 50/50 they move to a 3 seed if they beat Marquette. I wouldn’t put it as a lock just because of what they’ve shown in the past but beating two top 13 KenPom teams should move you up a spot especially over Tennessee

[D-West & PO-Z]

Committee doesn’t seem to put too much stock into conference tournaments. You have to really be eye opening in order to move up. I would think it’s at least 50/50 they move to a 3 seed if they beat Marquette. I wouldn’t put it as a lock just because of what they’ve shown in the past but beating two top 13 KenPom teams should move you up a spot especially over Tennessee

I got back and forth on this. I feel like people say this and I tend to agree with it to some degree but then we have seen times in Xavier history where we made big jumps. 2004 we went from not in the tournament without a win over St. Joes to a 7 seed after winning the A10 tourney. Too tired to think other times we've done this but we were seen as a middle 4 seed (actually 2nd 4 seed on bracket matrix) and I find it hard to believe we wont jump to a 3 if we beat Creighton and Marquette back to back to win tourney.

[stammina0721]

I got back and forth on this. I feel like people say this and I tend to agree with it to some degree but then we have seen times in Xavier history where we made big jumps. 2004 we went from not in the tournament without a win over St. Joes to a 7 seed after winning the A10 tourney. Too tired to think other times we've done this but we were seen as a middle 4 seed (actually 2nd 4 seed on bracket matrix) and I find it hard to believe we wont jump to a 3 if we beat Creighton and Marquette back to back to win tourney.

Gotta agree here. Being so close and beating Marquette 2-1 there isn't much justification for putting Marquette at a higher seed line over X if X wins tomorrow. At this point we know the floor is a 4. Ceiling is a 3. Let's just win tomorrow and see how the dominoes fall.

If we get the 4 let's get in Houston's bracket... No doubt X is the better team.

[HenryMuto]

Gotta agree here. Being so close and beating Marquette 2-1 there isn't much justification for putting Marquette at a higher seed line over X if X wins tomorrow. At this point we know the floor is a 4. Ceiling is a 3. Let's just win tomorrow and see how the dominoes fall.

If we get the 4 let's get in Houston's bracket... No doubt X is the better team.

I just wonder if the committee has already seeded the top 8 seed lines already before Saturday and how much the conference games matter today for seeding.

I know the SEC and Big 10 finals basically never have any seeding implications. Maybe Saturday is different.

It feels like a sizable gap right now from what "experts" have projected Marquette is the 8/9 overall where as Xavier is like a 14/15 overall.

I am not sure Xavier can get to the 3 line I just don't know how the committee takes Saturday seeding into account.

If they already seeded the top 32 teams they may not want to budge from that they say "It is only 1 game"

We will see. Need to win the game first to see if it matters or not.

Note also people still have UCONN over Xavier even with the sweep and Marquette is ahead of UCONN so........

[xukeith]

I just wonder if the committee has already seeded the top 8 seed lines already before Saturday and how much the conference games matter today for seeding.

I know the SEC and Big 10 finals basically never have any seeding implications. Maybe Saturday is different.

It feels like a sizable gap right now from what "experts" have projected Marquette is the 8/9 overall where as Xavier is like a 14/15 overall.

I am not sure Xavier can get to the 3 line I just don't know how the committee takes Saturday seeding into account.

If they already seeded the top 32 teams they may not want to budge from that they say "It is only 1 game"

We will see. Need to win the game first to see if it matters or not.

Note also people still have UCONN over Xavier even with the sweep and Marquette is ahead of UCONN so........

I agree. Usually late moves in NET ratings do not affect seeding. Most of the seeding is probably already done minus a team having a complete meltdown today or Sunday.

[xu82]

I agree. Usually late moves in NET ratings do not affect seeding. Most of the seeding is probably already done minus a team having a complete meltdown today or Sunday.

Don’t they come out with the brackets before some tournaments are even over? I seem to recall that.

[Caveat]

Don’t they come out with the brackets before some tournaments are even over? I seem to recall that.

Yup.

The committee is already done with most of their work by Saturday afternoon. Most of the seeding is already locked in at the top of the bracket by Thursday / Friday and they’re just tweaking the regional matchups.

[XUBison]

Yup.

The committee is already done with most of their work by Saturday afternoon. Most of the seeding is already locked in at the top of the bracket by Thursday / Friday and they’re just tweaking the regional matchups.

All good, but they don’t do the bracket reveal until all tournaments are over. I think that was his question.

[GoMuskies]

I don't believe for a second that Xavier doesn't have a chance to improve a seed line with a win over Marquette today.

[HenryMuto]

If Saturday does matter Indiana just lost and Xavier could maybe pass them up on the seed line with a win..............if it matters that is

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't believe for a second that Xavier doesn't have a chance to improve a seed line with a win over Marquette today.

Agreed. But moot point now.

4 seed. Lock it in.

[Masterofreality]

UCon (intentional misspell) with a season ending NET of 8 is ludicrous.
Marquette being at 12 is too.
The fact that Creighton is 5 spots ahead of Xavier completes the trifecta of trash.

Get rid of this metric and go back to RPI. There are so many flaws it’s embarrassing.

[Backyard Champ]

RPI was awful

[Strange Brew]

UCon (intentional misspell) with a season ending NET of 8 is ludicrous.
Marquette being at 12 is too.
The fact that Creighton is 5 spots ahead of Xavier completes the trifecta of trash.

Get rid of this metric and go back to RPI. There are so many flaws it’s embarrassing.

Analytics in sports….

[Section 200]

Clark picks X to Final Four!

[xubrew]

UCon (intentional misspell) with a season ending NET of 8 is ludicrous.
Marquette being at 12 is too.
The fact that Creighton is 5 spots ahead of Xavier completes the trifecta of trash.

Get rid of this metric and go back to RPI. There are so many flaws it’s embarrassing.

Xavier got a 3 seed. So what if their NET was 22? It's not that important. It really isn't. Don't waste your energy by letting unimportant things bother you.

[xukeith]

I guess individual NET ranking doesn't matter much except the number of Quad 1 wins.

[nuts4xu]

UCon (intentional misspell) with a season ending NET of 8 is ludicrous.
Marquette being at 12 is too.
The fact that Creighton is 5 spots ahead of Xavier completes the trifecta of trash.

Get rid of this metric and go back to RPI. There are so many flaws it’s embarrassing.

If we don't understand the formula for the NET, it is tough to determine its flaws.

Unless you play the "we beat team XYZ twice so they shouldn't be above us in any metric" game.

RPI has many known flaws, but I liked it better, because it was easy to understand.

I honestly am not smart enough to come up with a metric that evens the playing field by taking specific and objective data points.

I am smart enough to know if you use a metric, without revealing the formula, it is likely a bullshit metric.

[MHettel]

If we don't understand the formula for the NET, it is tough to determine its flaws.


That IS the flaw. Similarly, take a look at WAR in baseball and tell me what conclusions you draw..

[D-West & PO-Z]

I guess individual NET ranking doesn't matter much except the number of Quad 1 wins.

Kansas set a record for Quad 1 wins and was the 3rd #1 seed and didn't get the MW bracket. So they probably aren't even convinced that matters. Houston had 7, Kansas had 17.

[xubrew]

Kansas set a record for Quad 1 wins and was the 3rd #1 seed and didn't get the MW bracket. So they probably aren't even convinced that matters. Houston had 7, Kansas had 17.

I think they looked at it more in terms of a batting average. Houston went 7-for-9. Kansas went 17-for-24. Houston also won at Virginia, which is better than any singular win Kansas had. It was Virginia's only home loss. With all those quad 1 wins that Kansas had, they didn't get a win against a protected seed on the road and Houston did despite having far fewer opportunities.

I'm with the committee all the way on this one. I think they got it right. Furthermore, I think that Houston would have been the overall #1 seed had they won the championship game against Memphis. In an interview after the bracket was revealed, Chris Reynolds said they had built four different brackets. During the Selection Show, after Houston's name was called, CBS made a mistake. For about 15 seconds it showed that they were playing the winner of a play in game. It was actually kind of funny because they had cameras on Houston's team and everyone was very confused. They then got it fixed.

I think CBS started to show one of the other brackets by mistake, and in said bracket Houston was actually #1 overall.

[xubrew]

...and speaking of teams that won on the road against protected seeds, it's something that doesn't happen often. Xavier did do it this year with the win at UConn, and I think it's just their 4th time ever doing it. (or maybe even just the 3rd).

And it got me to thinking.....and...well....I'm STILL aggravated about the Indiana game!!!! DAMN WE HAD THEM!!!!!

I do not like Indiana. It's more their fans than their actual program.

[JTG]

...and speaking of teams that won on the road against protected seeds, it's something that doesn't happen often. Xavier did do it this year with the win at UConn, and I think it's just their 4th time ever doing it. (or maybe even just the 3rd).

And it got me to thinking.....and...well....I'm STILL aggravated about the Indiana game!!!! DAMN WE HAD THEM!!!!!

I do not like Indiana. It's more their fans than their actual program.

This. Living in Indy I have to hear about their ancient history banners almost every day.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Houston plays in such a bad league though. And they lost at home to Temple.

However, they played a tough non conference schedule and won all of their big non conference games except Alabama. So definitely kudos for that and winning them.

No tears for Kansas for me though, glad they don't get to go though KC and are not in our MW bracket.

[xubrew]

Houston plays in such a bad league though. And they lost at home to Temple.

However, they played a tough non conference schedule and won all of their big non conference games except Alabama. So definitely kudos for that and winning them.

No tears for Kansas for me though, glad they don't get to go though KC and are not in our MW bracket.

They made as much of an effort to test themselves as what you can reasonably expect, they passed the big tests that they were able to get at a very high percentage (higher than Kansas), their best win was better than Kansas's best win, and I think the committee also factors in the "intent to schedule" piece in cases like this. A lot of teams did not want to play Houston, particularly the Texas-based Big 12 teams. There is no bigger pile of bullshit than criticizing a team for not playing anybody while at the same time refusing to play that team. I think it was pretty obvious that Houston was willing to play anybody even if it meant going on the road, and they still couldn't a lot of teams to play them. I kind of think the tables should be turned in this situation. Instead of being critical of Houston for not playing any Big 12 teams, how about being critical of the Big 12 for not playing Houston?? Had Kansas or Texas been willing to play, Houston would have been there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They made as much of an effort to test themselves as what you can reasonably expect, they passed the big tests that they were able to get at a very high percentage (higher than Kansas), their best win was better than Kansas's best win, and I think the committee also factors in the "intent to schedule" piece in cases like this. A lot of teams did not want to play Houston, particularly the Texas-based Big 12 teams. There is no bigger pile of bullshit than criticizing a team for not playing anybody while at the same time refusing to play that team. I think it was pretty obvious that Houston was willing to play anybody even if it meant going on the road, and they still couldn't a lot of teams to play them. I kind of think the tables should be turned in this situation. Instead of being critical of Houston for not playing any Big 12 teams, how about being critical of the Big 12 for not playing Houston?? Had Kansas or Texas been willing to play, Houston would have been there.

Yeah, I mean I can't speak to who they tried to play but who wouldn't accept. You seem to know a lot more there than I. Moot point as Houston will be in the Big 12 next year. I think they will be successful but they wont finish the season with 3 losses likely.

They did seem to get a fair amount of good non conf games though, so teams were willing to play them. Just maybe not Big 12 teams? Which seems weird since they are heading there next year.

[xubrew]

Yeah, I mean I can't speak to who they tried to play but who wouldn't accept. You seem to know a lot more there than I. Moot point as Houston will be in the Big 12 next year. I think they will be successful but they wont finish the season with 3 losses likely.

They did seem to get a fair amount of good non conf games though, so teams were willing to play them. Just maybe not Big 12 teams? Which seems weird since they are heading there next year.

I actually follow the scheduling fairly closely in the offseason, and have a friend that is borderlined obsessed with it and now even considers himself a consultant and/or middle man to help schools get their schedules put together. Houston did get to go to Oregon (who turned out to be meh, but was a preseason top 25 team, and I think this was the last of a four game deal) and did go to Virginia as part of a home and home (who is a rare exception of a team that is willing to play top level teams from non-major conferences, and even do so on the road), but they reached out to a lot of big schools and would have played any of them. It's just kind of ridiculous that none of the major programs in the state of Texas want anything to do with them. They say they've got nothing to gain by playing them, but the reality is that I think they're simply afraid of them and would rather just avoid them. No one will ever be able to convince me that a Houston v Texas series would not be awesome and would somehow be beneath Texas to schedule such a game because Houston just isn't up to their level.

So to see the committee place Houston ahead of them...I say good on the committee! If those programs don't like it, then they can play them and prove that they belong ahead of them instead of avoiding them and trying to claim Houston doesn't play anybody.

[GoMuskies]

Houston suciked out loud for a long time, and it would have been wise for the "bigger" Texas programs to ignore them. But now that they're good (the best program in Texas the last few years), that's silly.

[Masterofreality]

If we don't understand the formula for the NET, it is tough to determine its flaws.

Unless you play the "we beat team XYZ twice so they shouldn't be above us in any metric" game.

RPI has many known flaws, but I liked it better, because it was easy to understand.

I honestly am not smart enough to come up with a metric that evens the playing field by taking specific and objective data points.

I am smart enough to know if you use a metric, without revealing the formula, it is likely a bullshit metric.


That IS the flaw. Similarly, take a look at WAR in baseball and tell me what conclusions you draw..

And the fact is that NOBODY understands what the key factors are and it is making scheduling tougher for schools that want to build up their NET.
Seemingly in talking to people who really are nerds over this stuff, the margin of victory screws everything up. *I think* if you beat a slug team by 40 it’s worth more than beating a really good team by 3.
Maybe Hett or Brew can shed more light on that?

[X-band '01]

Also think about why Clemson and Rutgers missed the NCAA Tournament. Clemson's NC SOS was in the bottom 25 of D1 and Rutgers (albeit hampered by a late-season injury where they couldn't win on a consistent basis) also had a lot of questionable teams on their schedule.

Look at the Mountain West if you're solely looking to "game" the NET by playing a bunch of middling Pac-12 schools and rarely leaving home. It will only get you so far.