Transfer Portal 2022

[Blue Blooded-05]

I wonder if the companies inking NIL deals will start writing contracts that would try to force the kids to stay at one college for more than 1 year.

The basketball season starts in November and ends in March. That's 4 months. To the casual fan, it might take a month or two to even learn who this new player is. That means the company gets 2-3 months of advertising potential if the kid leaves after the season. Obviously, this wouldn't matter as much to a national company. However, a local company would never get their money back.

If I am a local company offering a large sum of money for NIL sponsorship, I would prorate the payout with a balloon payment after 2-3 years and put in a huge breach of contract penalty.

If the kid is good enough to be a lottery pick, they would either breach the contract or continue advertising with the company for the duration of the contract after they turn pro. Either way, both parties win.

However, it's a different story if the kid transfers to another school. At best, they would get a new NIL deal that would pay the buyout of the old NIL deal.

Could be an interesting dynamic.

[xukeith]

I believe X has hired someone for that position.

Would Ryan Reynolds be that man staffed with NIL?

[MHettel]

I don’t know how it will work. But I can guess that it might be something like this:

1. First and foremost there are no payments directly or indirectly from the university to the player.
2. The role of the university is essentially to “broker” an NIL deal.
3. Interested sponsors for a university will coordinate with a university representative to connect the sponsor to a player. Suppose at the end of each year, the head coach will try to match up returning players with the different NIL opportunities to defend against the players transferring for more money.
4. I assume NIL deals will be 1 year agreements, and more often than not will be renewed for the same terms. As an example, let’s say a local restaurant will pay 20k. That’s their budget. A player takes that deal and for the next year it’s expected that the player will “re-up” for another year. But if they “blow up” they can try to get more than 20k from that sponsor or maybe take a “richer” deal that is available. It will be interesting, for instance, if a player came in on a smaller deal and way overperforms, while a teammate on a bigger deal doesn’t meet expectations. Would the sponsor for the bigger deal drop the 2nd guy and pursue the first guy? Will this cause resentment? You would think that a sponsor would ideally connect with a kid as a freshman and try to ride that relationship for 4 years. That would be the maximum marketing value they could get. I think these school specific deals will be in place for years and years and just new kids will cycle through.
5. Aside from businesses that view the NIL investment as a legit marketing opportunities, I also expect that some whales with deep pockets will just throw money at a kid with no regard for getting any value in return.
6. I also expect that there will be some National Level deals where a big time sponsor will connect directly with a “top 10” level player and then direct the kid to a program that maximizes the exposure. This results in kids getting delivered to the elite programs that dominate the media coverage. It would surprise me if these deals had a kind of “performance bonus” that simply keeps paying a guy as he progresses through the NCAA tourney. These types of deals may be given to a kid going to Duke one year, and then a UK kid the next and then a UCLA kid after that. I see no commitment to a specific university.
7. I almost expect that once the NCAA tournament starts, some big corporations will connect with entire teams and then just hope they advance to maximize marketing dollars. I don’t expect a local Cincy restaurant to benefit much from National NCAA exposure. Big some big National corporations certainly would. Expect big companies to hitch themselves to entire teams during the tourney.
8. Which leads me to exclusivity. I think any sponsor will push for this, but the players will catch on and find a way to keep it limited.

[xudash]

Can we take a shot at boiling this down to some hard realities:

1. Business is Still Business. Most companies that enter into NIL deals will do so with their objective being an effective use of their marketing budgets. Solid, extensive experiential data do not exist for this - yet. I understand that data exist for Joe Burrow pitching products in the Cincinnati market. Can you apply some kind of impact discount factor going from an NFL pro (who just came off a Super Bowl appearance) to a college kid representing a specific school primarily in a given market? So a kid does "blow up" from one year to the next: what is the computed value of that in terms of its impact on the funding entity's marketing? The kid is the representing "brand" here, not the school, per se. Will improved 3-point shooting and better rebounding from one season to the next lead to selling 2.5 more cars on average from season to season? I'll let the math majors and data geeks tackle that one.

It strikes me that the 80/20 rule or some kind of "pyramid look" in outcomes will rule here. I understand that the headlines-splashing UK deals involving 7-digits and an exotic car will happen, but the vast majority of these transactions will be much less substantial. The McDonald AA's were already migrating to the Kentucky's, Duke's, Kansas', etc., but now they go there with a Porsche and money in the bank. As a side note, I think this is wonderful in terms of their new found ability to focus on their pre-med classes.

Overall, I suppose I'm suggesting/hoping that this tawdry mess finds an equilibrium. Does a Memphis in Memphis - already perceived to be dirty by any measure - go ballistic in the NCAAT because FedEx pumps a lot of money into NIL's? I doubt it. Memphis basketball players have no impact on national advertising. Bigger schools - primarily the P5 - will benefit from all this due to their big alumni bases, some more so than others, given their locations (Columbus, OH or Los Angeles, CA versus Happy Valley, PA or Pullman, WA). Some will benefit even more because of their fanatical fans - UK, Bama.

2. The matter of "Indifferent Whales". I also expect that some whales with deep pockets will just throw money at a kid with no regard for getting any value in return. I don't believe that is sustainable. And they got to be whales mostly by not being stupid. Perhaps I'm naive, but this certainly is an area where fatigue can set in. Let's keep in mind, when all of this was being done under the table, that the amounts and toys never approached $2mm and Porsche's (though I once saw Cornelius Greene driving up High Street in Columbus in a brand new Lincoln Mark VII once!).

3. The Impact of NIL's on Direct Giving to the University. This is the one that concerns me. It's still too early to say what will transpire with all of this, but I hope that NIL's, per se, are very much and mostly seen as "investments" in marketing dollars by those entities that fund them. I hope and trust that this will not become a "rob Peter to pay Paul" proposition, wherein dollars that would have gone to a university endowment are redirected into this arena in order to feed the machine that represents the front door of the school in order to attract funding and support in that manner.

STUDENT-ATHLETE. Sure, okay.

[IM4X]

At this point, every College Basketball program should hire an Assistant Coach NIL.
A guy in charge of only arranging NIL deals since that seems to be the big deal now.

Interesting thought. Would not be surprised to see this happening.

[IM4X]

Maybe a % of the NIL payment should go back to the university to offset their scholarship money and costs paid by the university.

I’m with you here. This stuff has to go both ways. If players are getting paid, they ought to give a cut back to the schools. Maybe even have it go towards non athletic scholarships for incoming students. I hate the way they are handling this. I have stated it before (as have a number of others) this shit looks to be on its way to becoming really ugly, really fast. There’s not nearly enough regulations in place to keep this from becoming a huge mess and very corrupt.

[bobbiemcgee]

I noticed Tyrell Ward has an address on his Twitter for "business inquiries". Get ready folks. .

[IM4X]

With money that enticing, this could get ugly. I know it's legal, but it reeks of corruption and people doing bad things to each other to get their hands on this kind of cash.

I have no clue how this plays out, but it seems like it won't be good. But who knows.

Agree. This really wasnÂ’t thought through enough. ItÂ’s just crazy that some more reasonable agreement wasnÂ’t set up to allow for players to earn a little for their contributions but not turn it into a total mess.

I like the idea of paying all D1 scholarship players a reasonable stipend that will allow them to pay for little things they need and then give players a percentage of money made from their jerseys being sold. Then those who have played well enough to be named all-conference or all-American can be paid additional money. That way we are not screwing around with team chemistry and we are not screwing up kids by having them focus on the best deals for them instead of first doing what is best for the team and then these players can earn what they deserve by their play.

Jay Wright and Coach K absolutely see where this is headed.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Maybe a % of the NIL payment should go back to the university to offset their scholarship money and costs paid by the university.

This is laughable.

[xu82]

Remember when we all hated the NCAA for being the NCAA?

Now we can all hate them more for turning their backs and, remarkably, making things worse.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Agree. This really wasnÂ’t thought through enough. ItÂ’s just crazy that some more reasonable agreement wasnÂ’t set up to allow for players to earn a little for their contributions but not turn it into a total mess.

I like the idea of paying all D1 scholarship players a reasonable stipend that will allow them to pay for little things they need and then give players a percentage of money made from their jerseys being sold. Then those who have played well enough to be named all-conference or all-American can be paid additional money. That way we are not screwing around with team chemistry and we are not screwing up kids by having them focus on the best deals for them instead of first doing what is best for the team and then these players can earn what they deserve by their play.

Jay Wright and Coach K absolutely see where this is headed.

What you described sounds way worse than what is currently happening and sounds a lot like an employee with performance based bonuses.

The kids are getting screwed up by taking opportunities to make money and not focusing enough on the team? That screws the kids up? Sounds a lot like coach speak by the coaches who don't want to adapt to a new reality.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Remember when we all hated the NCAA for being the NCAA?

Now we can all hate them more for turning their backs and, remarkably, making things worse.

Can you point to how anything is currently worse? Do you feel like there is already some huge change and things are worse? What are they? Sounds a lot like fear of the unknown to me.

[xu82]

Can you point to how anything is currently worse? Do you feel like there is already some huge change and things are worse? What are they? Sounds a lot like fear of the unknown to me.

How about this from the last page:

I noticed Tyrell Ward has an address on his Twitter for "business inquiries".

[D-West & PO-Z]

How about this from the last page:

I noticed Tyrell Ward has an address on his Twitter for "business inquiries".

I don't get the issue? College basketball is currently worse off because of players having an address on their social media for business inquiries?

You realize several Xavier players are on sites such as cameo getting paid for videos and other things. Was your Xavier viewing ruined this year because of that?

Things like cameo are the majority of what we are going to see.

[xu82]

That’s not a fear of the unknown. That is a fear of what I’m reading and where we seem to be heading.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That’s not a fear of the unknown. That is a fear of what I’m reading and where we seem to be heading.

The word seem makes it unknown.

[xu82]

I don't get the issue? College basketball is currently worse off because of players having an address on their social media for business inquiries?

You realize several Xavier players are on sites such as cameo getting paid for videos and other things. Was your Xavier viewing ruined this year because of that?

Things like cameo are the majority of what we are going to see.

This is the express train to a place I don’t want to be. There is an enormous difference between picking up an extra $100 for doing a birthday cameo and putting yourself out to the highest bidder. I know you’re a smart guy. You see the difference, right?

An active recruit with a business inquiry link is not a good look.

[xu82]

The word seem makes it unknown.


Please, love your posts, but don’t be so naive as to pretend this can’t lead to an ugly place of putting yourself up for sale to the highest bidder.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Please, love your posts, but don’t be so naive as to pretend this can’t lead to an ugly place of putting yourself up for sale to the highest bidder.

Not saying it couldnt, but we don't know what it will look like. No one does. Most of these doomsday scenarios are coming from a place of fear of the unknown. That is all I am saying. I continue to contend that in 5 years we won't give any of this stuff much thought. Others think in 5 years college sports will be ruined. I am sure others think it will be something in the middle.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This is the express train to a place I don’t want to be. There is an enormous difference between picking up an extra $100 for doing a birthday cameo and putting yourself out to the highest bidder. I know you’re a smart guy. You see the difference, right?

An active recruit with a business inquiry link is not a good look.

1. That is a big leap to say that email is putting himself out to the highest bidder.

2. Why is it a bad look? These guys are allowed to get paid for opportunities now that present themselves. I am honestly shocked not every single guy has an email for the same thing. Does not have to mean they are putting themselves out to the highest bidders or even have to have anything to do with determining where they go to school.

[xu82]

Not saying it couldnt, but we don't know what it will look like. No one does. Most of these doomsday scenarios are coming from a place of fear of the unknown. That is all I am saying. I continue to contend that in 5 years we won't give any of this stuff much thought. Others think in 5 years college sports will be ruined. I am sure others think it will be something in the middle.

You like the phrase “fear of the unknown”, while I lean towards “common sense”.

Time will tell, and since I have ZERO control over it, it won’t fret too much. We will need at least 5 years to see how it plays out.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You like the phrase “fear of the unknown”, while I lean towards “common sense”.

Time will tell, and since I have ZERO control over it, it won’t fret too much. We will need at least 5 years to see how it plays out.

I think it's pretty presumptuous to say it is common sense that this leads to college sports being ruined or significantly worse.

I agree though, time will tell.

[IM4X]

What you described sounds way worse than what is currently happening and sounds a lot like an employee with performance based bonuses.

The kids are getting screwed up by taking opportunities to make money and not focusing enough on the team? That screws the kids up? Sounds a lot like coach speak by the coaches who don't want to adapt to a new reality.


Sorry- I’m not seeing it that way at all. It seems lost on you that these are kids who are getting a free education. They are (at least they should be) attending college to become prepared for life. The vast majority of these kids will not move on to play ball at the next level. We can talk about giving these kids what is fair… but what really is fair?

Is it fair to the schools and the coaches and fans when teams get ripped apart every year because someone offers a kid a little more somewhere else. These kids already get a free education. If there is a way the school can give all D1 players a reasonable stipend and then figure out a way to give more to those more deserving players (all conference/all-Americans, players who have more jerseys sold, players who are highest rated coming out of HS) a little more (or some other reasonable and less disruptive way of creating a very fair system), then it would stop this nonsense of players potentially using their time trying to find the most lucrative deal that has them hopping into the next portal.

It is becoming a huge distraction to the team, the school, the coaches and the fans. If you are spending time focusing on your next deal, it is time you are not focusing on giving your best to the team. It would drive me nuts to be a coach today. No question it played into Wrights decision to get out of this mess
we are headed into.

I am not advocating for players to play without getting any pay, I just think it ought to be done in a way that is not incredibly disruptive to the team and in a way where it doesn’t turn into a big mess for everyone who is not that player- including the fans. There has to be strict regulations and guidelines that don’t allow for further corruption to occur.

The narrative can’t be about feeling bad that some young kid isn’t making his $200k. This shit is absolutely heading down a slippery slope. The best system is one that will help to be fair and reasonable for everyone involved. Schools are a place to prepare kids for their future- not a place for kids to come to be paid like a professional athlete where they are holding out for the most money they can. I promise you we are going to see players get used and abused and spit out by this type of system where players are left without ever getting a proper education, without making it to the next level and without being able to get a decent job. A lot of people have a myopic view of how this is good and fair for the players. We all need to remember how it could hurt schools and college sports ans even even potential hurt players when things don’t pan out for them.

[IM4X]

This is laughable.

I don’t find it laughable at all for a % to go back to the university. Why do you find it laughable?

[Xville]

I don’t find it laughable at all for a % to go back to the university. Why do you find it laughable?

Schools are already making millions off of these kids and you want them to receive more? That’s pretty laughable.

[muskiefan82]

Potentially stupid question, but what happens when player "A" at school "UK" gets an NIL deal due say $200,000 and the school gets nothing? Can school "UK" sue because player "A" is using their affiliation with school "UK" to get the deal? Almost seems like a reverse NIL situation

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Schools are already making millions off of these kids and you want them to receive more? That’s pretty laughable.

OMG! It is so so awful. These poor young men are compelled to attend college, play basketball and used and abused, not for their own benefit but for the benefit and enjoyment of others, like us fans. Meanwhile the source of their abject misery who has forced their compulsory service, the universities, receive revenue from investing in these poor young serfs which they inject back into the program and its facilities. I don't think I can ever again watch an X game knowing how the school and its administration have so badly mistreated these young people. Oh the humanity!

[Xville]

OMG! It is so so awful. These poor young men are compelled to attend college, play basketball and used and abused, not for their own benefit but for the benefit and enjoyment of others, like us fans. Meanwhile the source of their abject misery who has forced their compulsory service, the universities, receive revenue from investing in these poor young serfs which they inject back into the program and its facilities. I don't think I can ever again watch an X game knowing how the school and its administration have so badly mistreated these young people. Oh the humanity!

I didn’t say anything to what you are insinuating here. I just don’t see how schools should be getting even more money from these kids. If someone is saying that schools should get a percentage of a players’ nil deal, then I guess players should get a percentage of tv revenue, ncaa tourney money and every other revenue stream that is flowing thru the athletic departments.

Some of you that post here have a very 1950s view of looking at the world.

[xu82]

I think it's pretty presumptuous to say it is common sense that this leads to college sports being ruined or significantly worse.

I agree though, time will tell.

Honestly, I already like it a little less. It’s not fully unknown. I’m judging based upon what I’ve seen already as well as what I think we can expect.

I’ll just hope for the best, since it’s all I can do. At least Miller is back so games should be more enjoyable to watch.

[XUBison]

Schools are already making millions off of these kids and you want them to receive more? That’s pretty laughable.

Hey, it sounds like there’s no need for us to give anymore. Super!

[Xville]

Hey, it sounds like there’s no need for us to give anymore. Super!

If the basketball team didn’t have to subsidize every single sport at Xavier, then you would be right.

That still doesn’t take away the fact that these kids bring millions of dollars into the athletic department.

[XUBison]

If the basketball team didn’t have to subsidize every single sport at Xavier, then you would be right.

That still doesn’t take away the fact that these kids bring millions of dollars into the athletic department.

I’m confused. You said the university was “making” millions off the basketball program. But the university is just covering its costs?

I’m just trying to understand what our role is expected to be as supporters? I’m having a harder and harder time understanding why we should be expected to “give“ anything.

[GIMMFD]

I didn’t say anything to what you are insinuating here. I just don’t see how schools should be getting even more money from these kids. If someone is saying that schools should get a percentage of a players’ nil deal, then I guess players should get a percentage of tv revenue, ncaa tourney money and every other revenue stream that is flowing thru the athletic departments.

Some of you that post here have a very 1950s view of looking at the world.

Honestly completely agree with this, if the school gets a percentage of the NIL deal, that opens up a whole can of worms with everything you mentioned there. That would be an absolutely dumb button for schools to press, plus how much do we really think an average team is going to make on NIL rights? That percentage would be minuscule in the grand scheme of things unless you're signing 5*s left and right, which even then the money you make from all the different revenue streams engulfs what you could make from grabbing a percentage of 12 NIL deals... it would just make schools look incredibly greedy.

[xudash]

I’m confused. You said the university was “making” millions off the basketball program. But the university is just covering its costs?

I’m just trying to understand what our role is expected to be as supporters? I’m having a harder and harder time understanding why we should be expected to “give“ anything.

It’s a little more complicated than that - the success of the basketball program is critical to the health of the University - even if someone drops a billion dollars into the coffers.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I didn’t say anything to what you are insinuating here. I just don’t see how schools should be getting even more money from these kids. If someone is saying that schools should get a percentage of a players’ nil deal, then I guess players should get a percentage of tv revenue, ncaa tourney money and every other revenue stream that is flowing thru the athletic departments.

Some of you that post here have a very 1950s view of looking at the world.

O.K. I took what you said and expanded upon what I thought you were implying. If that is not where you were headed my bad. But, I can blame it on all that crap I'm picking up from watching re-runs of "Gunsmoke", "The Real McCoys", etc. That stuff f***s with one's brain.

The essence of your argument, if I may try again to reframe it accurately, is that you appear to believe the economic contract between the colleges and the basketball players (specifically Xavier and our basketball players) is out of whack. The players generate "millions" for the university and receive back benefits which are far inferior. I reject that argument. While I supported NIL as I thought it was going to work, instead it seems swiftly and inevitable headed toward PFP (play for pay). At this point, I'm uncomfortable thinking of our basketball team as employees in the same way I'm uncomfortable thinking of any of our student athletes in that vein. If the relationship is so one-sided, why do we have dozens, probably hundreds of kids lining up for the opportunity to wear the uniform even without NIL? We even have kids who receive zero economic benefit right now, the walk-ons, who compete for the right to practice their asses off, receiving not even any material playing time for their commitment.

[paulxu]

It’s a little more complicated than that - the success of the basketball program is critical to the health of the University - even if someone drops a billion dollars into the coffers.

Dash...don't delay! Go ahead and drop it :neo:

[xudash]

Dash...don't delay! Go ahead and drop it :neo:

Paul - - how about if we go 50/50!

[paulxu]

No worries. Cover it and I'll pick up the tab at BJ's.

Meanwhile, on topic, Richmond just picked up their second SoCon player.
Got Bigelow a forward from Wofford, and Jason Roche a freshman from the Citadel.
Roche lead all Div 1 freshmen last year in 3's, with a 39.7% average. Torched Pitt for 27 in his first college game.
At 6.5 I think he would have fit nicely for the Muskies.

Some SoCon players have done well moving up, like Murphy and Aluma with Mike Young at VaTech.

[XUBison]

It’s a little more complicated than that - the success of the basketball program is critical to the health of the University - even if someone drops a billion dollars into the coffers.

$200K tuition; billions (trillions?) in federal grants and subsidies; taxpayer-funded tuition “forgiveness”; million-dollar coaches; a facilities arms race— athletic and academic; billions in tv, stadium, and merchandise revenue; COA; NIL; and a hand out all the while.

…no, it’s not.

[MHettel]

No worries. Cover it and I'll pick up the tab at BJ's.

Meanwhile, on topic, Richmond just picked up their second SoCon player.
Got Bigelow a forward from Wofford, and Jason Roche a freshman from the Citadel.
Roche lead all Div 1 freshmen last year in 3's, with a 39.7% average. Torched Pitt for 27 in his first college game.
At 6.5 I think he would have fit nicely for the Muskies.

Some SoCon players have done well moving up, like Murphy and Aluma with Mike Young at VaTech.

The new system is working perfectly. These 2 guys get a shot to move from single A to double A.

[IM4X]

I didn’t say anything to what you are insinuating here. I just don’t see how schools should be getting even more money from these kids. If someone is saying that schools should get a percentage of a players’ nil deal, then I guess players should get a percentage of tv revenue, ncaa tourney money and every other revenue stream that is flowing thru the athletic departments.

Some of you that post here have a very 1950s view of looking at the world.


If you think wanting everyone to remain reasonable about what is fair while trying not to ruin collegiate sports is a 1950’s view, then I would argue we need to think a bit more like they did in the 50’s (at least when it comes to these sorts of collegiate sports matters). The only two options can’t be that either the universities deserve to get rich off of the players or the players deserve to get rich for coming to school to play ball. There has to be a way where everyone wins a little but doesn’t get greedy. We need a situation that helps to keep college sports from being ruined - it’s becoming all about who should be making more money. Everyone needs to be reasonable. If you are a talented player and want a good, free education, what is wrong with playing the sport you love foe a free education and a little extra to cover your needs. Otherwise skip the $150-300k education being handed to you and test your luck training to become a professional on your own.

Let me be clear, no one is feeling bad for the university. Many have just grown sick of the “What’s in it for me” attitude we are seeing more and more of these days… the thinking by more and more players in college sports is shifting from “we” to “me.” Players aren’t learning about the importance of teamwork anymore - it’s become, “What’s in it for me.” That is a shitty lesson we are allow these kids to learn. If a player is exceptionally talented, he or she will make good money at the next level. If they are not quite good enough, well they got yourself a very valuable education. Just be grateful. If players at the college level need a stipend to help with costs, then give them a decent stipend. This crap about “these poor kids aren’t getting enough. They are getting an education worth close to a quarter of a million dollars - and yes - these are kids still we are talking about as if they were adult professionals. Frankly it’s absurd.

The other point you seemed bothered by was the one about the players giving a portion of their money they make through their NIL deal back to the university. It is not a bad idea if the money was directly reallocated for something like non athletic scholarships for other students who can’t afford college. It would be a way of teaching them about “paying it forward” to another student at the school who could use some scholarship money to help them pay for school.

What makes sense is a system where it is a win for the school, the students, the fans and the players- where a portion of the money made by the school gets spread around for all to benefit in some reasonable way, so players aren’t making bad decisions that will not only negatively affect that sports program but potentially screw up a player’s education and even negatively affect their own future.

[xudash]

If you think wanting everyone to remain reasonable about what is fair while trying not to ruin collegiate sports is a 1950’s view, then I would argue we need to think a bit more like they did in the 50’s (at least when it comes to these sorts of collegiate sports matters). The only two options can’t be that either the universities deserve to get rich off of the players or the players deserve to get rich for coming to school to play ball. There has to be a way where everyone wins a little but doesn’t get greedy. We need a situation that helps to keep college sports from being ruined - it’s becoming all about who should be making more money. Everyone needs to be reasonable. If you are a talented player and want a good, free education, what is wrong with playing the sport you love foe a free education and a little extra to cover your needs. Otherwise skip the $150-300k education being handed to you and test your luck training to become a professional on your own.

Let me be clear, no one is feeling bad for the university. Many have just grown sick of the “What’s in it for me” attitude we are seeing more and more of these days… the thinking by more and more players in college sports is shifting from “we” to “me.” Players aren’t learning about the importance of teamwork anymore - it’s become, “What’s in it for me.” That is a shitty lesson we are allow these kids to learn. If a player is exceptionally talented, he or she will make good money at the next level. If they are not quite good enough, well they got yourself a very valuable education. Just be grateful. If players at the college level need a stipend to help with costs, then give them a decent stipend. This crap about “these poor kids aren’t getting enough. They are getting an education worth close to a quarter of a million dollars - and yes - these are kids still we are talking about as if they were adult professionals. Frankly it’s absurd.

The other point you seemed bothered by was the one about the players giving a portion of their money they make through their NIL deal back to the university. It is not a bad idea if the money was directly reallocated for something like non athletic scholarships for other students who can’t afford college. It would be a way of teaching them about “paying it forward” to another student at the school who could use some scholarship money to help them pay for school.

What makes sense is a system where it is a win for the school, the students, the fans and the players- where a portion of the money made by the school gets spread around for all to benefit in some reasonable way, so players aren’t making bad decisions that will not only negatively affect that sports program but potentially screw up a player’s education and even negatively affect their own future.

i couldn't agree with your bolded statement more.

[BandAid]

So let’s get this thread back on track: have we bought ourselves any transfers yet?

[whopper]

no but pack from k- state went to Miami Fl

[xu82]

So let’s get this thread back on track: have we bought ourselves any transfers yet?

Apparently we are still shopping. Once we have added someone to our cart, Amazon can have them at our doorstep as early as the next morning. Like MAGIC!

[Drew]

Everytime I made more money my life got better. Why would I not want that for the players?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I didn’t say anything to what you are insinuating here. I just don’t see how schools should be getting even more money from these kids. If someone is saying that schools should get a percentage of a players’ nil deal, then I guess players should get a percentage of tv revenue, ncaa tourney money and every other revenue stream that is flowing thru the athletic departments.

Some of you that post here have a very 1950s view of looking at the world.

Seriously!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Everytime I made more money my life got better. Why would I not want that for the players?

Exactly.

And blaming the players for getting "greedy", acting like they have now ruined something sacred, while the NCAA and the schools have been nothing but that for decades is comical.

[xu82]

Everytime I made more money my life got better. Why would I not want that for the players?

I’m happy for you, and I want the players to do well and be successful and happy, but my experience is that once you have “enough” money, happiness is more important.

I was in situations where I went from more money to less, and I was FAR more happy. It has to “fit”.

Setting and long term vision trumps a few extra bucks. We have been all over our son about NOT taking the extra $10-25k unless the career path is right.


.

[sirthought]

Please let's talk about the players and who's going where.

[Xville]

Wards final 3 are va tech, lsu and Georgetown. All of those are lesser programs, so I say to that, good riddance.

[paulxu]

In years past, the "final" whatever (3, 5, 6, etc.) seemed more like hype on the kids part to drag out the suspense.

With the NIL, it's now a full blown bidding sequence to see who comes up with more $ each round.

Edit: Case in point, Pack from Kansas St.
Visits OSU, Miami and Purdue.
Picks Miami: says that they play a style that will help him develop for NBA (he's small point guard)

While all that may be true, he also got $400k a year, for 2 years, and a car from somebody in Miami.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1517947722086686720

[X-man]

Wards final 3 are va tech, lsu and Georgetown. All of those are lesser programs, so I say to that, good riddance.

If true, I totally agree. A kid who wants to play for Steele but not Miller doesn't belong here.

[Xville]

Why are so many of you presuming that all these kids are going to the highest bidder? Think about this rationally for a second rather then the stoking of fear some of you are trying to instill. Yeah the money is nice, but then the kid has to play for that coach, that program, that style of play, and go to that school.

[Xville]

If true, I totally agree. A kid who wants to play for Steele but not Miller doesn't belong here.

This looks pretty legitimate

https://techlunchpail.com/blog/four-star-sf-tyrell-ward-includes-virginia-tech-in-final-3-ahead-of-april-30th-decision

[XUGRAD80]

Why are so many of you presuming that all these kids are going to the highest bidder? Think about this rationally for a second rather then the stoking of fear some of you are trying to instill. Yeah the money is nice, but then the kid has to play for that coach, that program, that style of play, and go to that school.

What makes you think that at 18-19 years old that a kid is thinking logically and rationally and long term? Sure there will be kids that think about such things, but I think that they are in minority. Especially since they know that they can transfer at least 1X without having to sit out a year, and can transfer again and still not lose any years of eligibility. In fact, if they can come up with some reason to claim “hardship” they might not even have to sit out again. All you’ve got to do is look at the numbers in the portal and you can see that these kids aren’t thinking long term when they pick a school, it’s what “feels right” at the time that matters. Even many of us older people can tell you that we have taken jobs chasing money during our careers that felt right at the time, and a year later we knew that it was the worst decision of our lives.

[xavierj]

This looks pretty legitimate

https://techlunchpail.com/blog/four-star-sf-tyrell-ward-includes-virginia-tech-in-final-3-ahead-of-april-30th-decision

Yep he was and is going with Jordan Brooks. Which is the only reason Jordan Brooks is an assistant coach at Georgetown.

[MHettel]

Why are so many of you presuming that all these kids are going to the highest bidder? Think about this rationally for a second rather then the stoking of fear some of you are trying to instill. Yeah the money is nice, but then the kid has to play for that coach, that program, that style of play, and go to that school.

Are you being serious? Pack got 400k from Miami. Why wouldn’t they just give him 50k? Why go all the way up to 400? The only way it makes sense to get to a number like that is because there were competing offers.

It wouldn’t shock me one bit to see a niche consulting industry pop up which does nothing but drum up a “marketplace” for these kids and take a fee. Like a temporary agent.

[paulxu]

It wouldn’t shock me one bit to see a niche consulting industry pop up which does nothing but drum up a “marketplace” for these kids and take a fee. Like a temporary agent.

Hasn't that happened already with "LifeWallet?" Isn't Xavier's deal with that group to handle the NIL sort of like it.
And I guess when there is a middle man of sorts, you'll never really know where the $ come from.
You can probably track the car though.

[paulxu]

Double post.

[X-man]

Yep he was and is going with Jordan Brooks. Which is the only reason Jordan Brooks is an assistant coach at Georgetown.

Both Tech and G'town make sense, for coaching and locational reasons. LSU...not so much.

[Drew]

I’m happy for you, and I want the players to do well and be successful and happy, but my experience is that once you have “enough” money, happiness is more important.

I was in situations where I went from more money to less, and I was FAR more happy. It has to “fit”.

Setting and long term vision trumps a few extra bucks. We have been all over our son about NOT taking the extra $10-25k unless the career path is right.


.

Agreed, I would hope you pass this wisdom on to the coaches and NCAA administrators.

[xavierj]

Both Tech and G'town make sense, for coaching and locational reasons. LSU...not so much.

LSU most likely has the best NIL offer. He will end up at Georgetown

[GoMuskies]

I look forward to smacking him around like we mostly did with DSR.

[Xville]

Are you being serious? Pack got 400k from Miami. Why wouldn’t they just give him 50k? Why go all the way up to 400? The only way it makes sense to get to a number like that is because there were competing offers.

It wouldn’t shock me one bit to see a niche consulting industry pop up which does nothing but drum up a “marketplace” for these kids and take a fee. Like a temporary agent.

Dead serious. Ward isn’t going to gtown for nil money. Like I said, some of you have a very narrow focus that isn’t set in reality. Yeah there will be some guys that just go to the highest bidder which btw isn’t any different than before this was legal. However just like most things in this world, it’s all about relationships and that’s how most kids will continue to decide.

[JTG]

Are you being serious? Pack got 400k from Miami. Why wouldn’t they just give him 50k? Why go all the way up to 400? The only way it makes sense to get to a number like that is because there were competing offers.

It wouldn’t shock me one bit to see a niche consulting industry pop up which does nothing but drum up a “marketplace” for these kids and take a fee. Like a temporary agent.

Pack was supposedly down to Purdue and Miami. Pack is from Indy, less than an hour from Purdue. I'm pretty sure Purdue was not offering anywhere near $400k, and who is the better basketball program ? My guess is most people would say Purdue. So a third school must have entered the picture, or that guy who has been linked to Miami before just felt like passing out silly money.

[xavierj]

Pack was supposedly down to Purdue and Miami. Pack is from Indy, less than an hour from Purdue. I'm pretty sure Purdue was not offering anywhere near $400k, and who is the better basketball program ? My guess is most people would say Purdue. So a third school must have entered the picture, or that guy who has been linked to Miami before just felt like passing out silly money.

It’s pretty simple. He was going to pick Purdue… Miami had an offer he couldn’t refuse. He picked Miami and I would have as well. Anyone who thinks this climate is the same as before NIL has no clue. Better buckle up. Just know now people are not scared to throw out some cash like before.

[Xville]

It’s pretty simple. He was going to pick Purdue… Miami had an offer he couldn’t refuse. He picked Miami and I would have as well. Anyone who thinks this climate is the same as before NIL has no clue. Better buckle up. Just know now people are not scared to throw out some cash like before.

It’s funny you say this and then a couple of posts back you say ward is going to gtown because of the assistant coach. Think the 26th top recruit can’t get a pretty darn good nil offer than he might be getting at gtown? It’s the same climate, it’s just out in the open.. some will choose the straight cash homey, and most will choose due to relationships just like it has been for 60 plus years.

[xudash]

N I L was not intended to have the effect of turning player recruitment into an auction/purchase environment. It is clearly headed in that direction.

It is as though we are in the professional baseball model presently. In other words, very imbalanced with respect to the economics from franchise to franchise, especially given how media rights agreements work in baseball. What we need is for this whole thing to transition or migrate towards the NFL model, where there is more structure and more balance. Good luck with that.

[xavierj]

It’s funny you say this and then a couple of posts back you say ward is going to gtown because of the assistant coach. Think the 26th top recruit can’t get a pretty darn good nil offer than he might be getting at gtown? It’s the same climate, it’s just out in the open.. some will choose the straight cash homey, and most will choose due to relationships just like it has been for 60 plus years.

Yes I think 17 and 18 year olds think differently than 21 and 22 year olds. The NIL is a huge factor for top transfers. Ward will go to where his guy is. If he was 2 or 3 years older he wouldn’t.

[Xville]

Yes I think 17 and 18 year olds think differently than 21 and 22 year olds. The NIL is a huge factor for top transfers. Ward will go to where his guy is. If he was 2 or 3 years older he wouldn’t.

Hypothetical and judging someone’s thoughts and feelings based on what? Davis who chose Memphis and number one transfer out there by a few publications, is said to have gotten a low 6 figure deal… pretty sure that based on the schools that were recruiting him, he got offered something higher.

Yuri Collins just decided to come back to slu. I’m sure slu is giving him something but that kid could have gone to a number of programs with way more resources.

[D-West & PO-Z]

N I L was not intended to have the effect of turning player recruitment into an auction/purchase environment. It is clearly headed in that direction.

It is as though we are in the professional baseball model presently. In other words, very imbalanced with respect to the economics from franchise to franchise, especially given how media rights agreements work in baseball. What we need is for this whole thing to transition or migrate towards the NFL model, where there is more structure and more balance. Good luck with that.

We are literally talking about a handful or two of examples thus far. These extreme situations are still not the norm.

[MHettel]

We are literally talking about a handful or two of examples thus far. These extreme situations are still not the norm.

You have chosen to be a "players rights" advocate. You don't want to think through the possible outcomes of poorly crafted rules, you simply judge them on their face as whether they advance the rights of players directly, right now. You continue to reinforce your position in spite of mounting evidence that some "doomsday scenarios" show signs of actually playing out.

There are guys that are not just getting NIL money. They are getting the kind of money that most people NEVER see in a year, and its all about taking the best deal or creating leverage to maximize the money in the current situation. This isnt a stipend. Its bribe money.

You also resort, conveniently, to the idea that it was always happening, but just in the shadows. Thats so overblown. Yes, there was probably isolated cases of guys getting some money on the downlow. But the frequency and size of the money going down due to NIL is 1000% greater than anything that was occurring previously.

You are running our of excuses, and the evidence is coming in. I see the narrative shifting from "it's no big deal" to "we will have to wait and see."

No, we dont have to wait and see. Basic incentive theory here. Money will compel the decisions of players from now going forward. Liberal transfer rules will become a "multiplier" to the situation.

Downhill from here. I'm predicting an unrecognizable BBall atmosphere within 2-3 years. You will say nothing has changed and we need to wait and see.

Care to double down?

[D-West & PO-Z]

You have chosen to be a "players rights" advocate. You don't want to think through the possible outcomes of poorly crafted rules, you simply judge them on their face as whether they advance the rights of players directly, right now. You continue to reinforce your position in spite of mounting evidence that some "doomsday scenarios" show signs of actually playing out.

There are guys that are not just getting NIL money. They are getting the kind of money that most people NEVER see in a year, and its all about taking the best deal or creating leverage to maximize the money in the current situation. This isnt a stipend. Its bribe money.

You also resort, conveniently, to the idea that it was always happening, but just in the shadows. Thats so overblown. Yes, there was probably isolated cases of guys getting some money on the downlow. But the frequency and size of the money going down due to NIL is 1000% greater than anything that was occurring previously.

You are running our of excuses, and the evidence is coming in. I see the narrative shifting from "it's no big deal" to "we will have to wait and see."

No, we dont have to wait and see. Basic incentive theory here. Money will compel the decisions of players from now going forward. Liberal transfer rules will become a "multiplier" to the situation.

Downhill from here. I'm predicting an unrecognizable BBall atmosphere within 2-3 years. You will say nothing has changed and we need to wait and see.

Care to double down?

1. I have not chosen anything.

2. I don't make any rules.

3. You love the doomsday scenario so much that you predict college basketball will be ruined in 2-3 years. I laugh at that.

4. I could give zero fucks if every player makes their decision solely on where they get the most money. I have never once cared in all my years as a Xavier fan how and why a player chose X was for them or that another schools was instead. I am sorry for your pie in the sky unrealistic view of what college sports has been, is, and how you want it to be. You are the one in lala land, not me.

5. You present worse case scenarios and act like they are all happening, yet we see real time examples from the vast majority of players that they are not. Did Colby Jones decide to stick around at X this year because X hooked him up with a huge NIL deal? Do other schools think he sucks? We have no players worth poaching? I am a SLU fan as well, and their PG (who was ranked one of the best transfers on the market) who led the entire NCAA in assists last year, just returned to SLU after testing the portal waters. I can promise you it isn't because SLU dropped huge money in his lap.

6. I will absolutely double down that college basketball will not be ruined in 2-3 years.

It is absolutely hilarious to me, of all the things that have been awful in college sports, that guys like you find the end of college sports to be players getting some money and more freedom to move on to better situations. Seriously laughable.

[kane79]

can any one recap any actual developments in players transfering, cause its become a wall after wall of text arguing about the NIL and i for one could not care less and am having trouble finding info about players.

[Drew]

Just a reminder, recruiting has tracked almost 1 to 1 with athletic budget for decades now.

[Xville]

You have chosen to be a "players rights" advocate. You don't want to think through the possible outcomes of poorly crafted rules, you simply judge them on their face as whether they advance the rights of players directly, right now. You continue to reinforce your position in spite of mounting evidence that some "doomsday scenarios" show signs of actually playing out.

There are guys that are not just getting NIL money. They are getting the kind of money that most people NEVER see in a year, and its all about taking the best deal or creating leverage to maximize the money in the current situation. This isnt a stipend. Its bribe money.

You also resort, conveniently, to the idea that it was always happening, but just in the shadows. Thats so overblown. Yes, there was probably isolated cases of guys getting some money on the downlow. But the frequency and size of the money going down due to NIL is 1000% greater than anything that was occurring previously.

You are running our of excuses, and the evidence is coming in. I see the narrative shifting from "it's no big deal" to "we will have to wait and see."

No, we dont have to wait and see. Basic incentive theory here. Money will compel the decisions of players from now going forward. Liberal transfer rules will become a "multiplier" to the situation.

Downhill from here. I'm predicting an unrecognizable BBall atmosphere within 2-3 years. You will say nothing has changed and we need to wait and see.

Care to double down?

“Mounting evidence of doomsday scenarios” — where? Because I couple of people are getting paid at places like Miami Florida, Memphis and all the other usual suspects? Yeah that’s different lol.

When you say that the previous payments are overblown.. that’s absolutely laughable. Are you conveniently forgetting ucla bagmen, the fbi case, the numerous programs that have been on probation throughout the years, the Miami football scandal and I could go on and on. This is only the stuff we know about. Think the ncaa caught everything? I think a bunch of you want to believe this stuff wasnt happening at a large scale before nil and I think the mountain of evidence points to the fact that it was.

Your quote above that I reference and the rest of your post is a bunch of hypotheticals and conjecture.

Anyways, I think this thread has been derailed enough.

[webxu]

Pack was supposedly down to Purdue and Miami. Pack is from Indy, less than an hour from Purdue. I'm pretty sure Purdue was not offering anywhere near $400k, and who is the better basketball program ? My guess is most people would say Purdue. So a third school must have entered the picture, or that guy who has been linked to Miami before just felt like passing out silly money.

Didnt Miami just make the Elite 8? Purdue crashed and burned vs St Peters.. no argument that Purdue may have a better history, but Miami has had a decent program the last decade from Shane Larkin, to the Elite 8 this year. Plus they have a heck of a coach..

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

can any one recap any actual developments in players transfering, cause its become a wall after wall of text arguing about the NIL and i for one could not care less and am having trouble finding info about players.

Well, based on internet coverage, the biggest transfer story, so far, is the transfer of the Cavinder twins from Fresno State to The U.

[BandAid]

Didnt Miami just make the Elite 8? Purdue crashed and burned vs St Peters.. no argument that Purdue may have a better history, but Miami has had a decent program the last decade from Shane Larkin, to the Elite 8 this year. Plus they have a heck of a coach..

...and $400,000.

[GoMuskies]

I think all of this pay to play is kind of fascinating, and I have no idea how it's going to play out, but I WILL say that I assumed it was the "old money" that was going to benefit most from NIL/pay to play/whatever it's actually going to look like. But if some "new money" like Miami (UNLV?) rises to the top due to all of the silliness, I won't be mad.

I AM concerned how it is going to affect Xavier and the rest of the Big East. With a few exceptions (of which Xavier is not one), I do not think we have the money or fanbase size to compete if it becomes a true free for all.

[xu82]

You have chosen to be a "players rights" advocate. You don't want to think through the possible outcomes of poorly crafted rules, you simply judge them on their face as whether they advance the rights of players directly, right now. You continue to reinforce your position in spite of mounting evidence that some "doomsday scenarios" show signs of actually playing out.

There are guys that are not just getting NIL money. They are getting the kind of money that most people NEVER see in a year, and its all about taking the best deal or creating leverage to maximize the money in the current situation. This isnt a stipend. Its bribe money.

You also resort, conveniently, to the idea that it was always happening, but just in the shadows. Thats so overblown. Yes, there was probably isolated cases of guys getting some money on the downlow. But the frequency and size of the money going down due to NIL is 1000% greater than anything that was occurring previously.

You are running our of excuses, and the evidence is coming in. I see the narrative shifting from "it's no big deal" to "we will have to wait and see."

No, we dont have to wait and see. Basic incentive theory here. Money will compel the decisions of players from now going forward. Liberal transfer rules will become a "multiplier" to the situation.

Downhill from here. I'm predicting an unrecognizable BBall atmosphere within 2-3 years. You will say nothing has changed and we need to wait and see.

Care to double down?

This article seems to also belong in this discussion regarding the direction of college basketball. Yes, it is just one case, but it seems to show the direction we are heading. I will transfer in for 2 years in return for $800k and a car.


https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/nijel-pack-transfers-to-miami-former-kansas-state-star-to-earn-800000-in-nil-deal-with-lifewallet/

[Drew]

You either negotiate a salary cap and terms (transfer restrictions, academic eligibility etc) and behave like every other sports league or you allow the free market to play out. The precedent was just hypocrisy and people have woken up to it.

[JTG]

Why do you think the NFL is wildly more popular than MLB or NBA ? Salary cap, and a level playing field. The only thing stopping an NFL team from the Super Bowl is poor management. Unlike the NBA and MLB where there are haves and have-nots, where half of those two leagues have no shot to win a title. A salary cap and shared monies amongst all the teammates, is the only way this will work. I'm for the players getting a piece of the pie, but this Pack deal is absurd.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why do you think the NFL is wildly more popular than MLB or NBA ? Salary cap, and a level playing field. The only thing stopping an NFL team from the Super Bowl is poor management. Unlike the NBA and MLB where there are haves and have-nots, where half of those two leagues have no shot to win a title. A salary cap and shared monies amongst all the teammates, is the only way this will work. I'm for the players getting a piece of the pie, but this Pack deal is absurd.

Every single pro sports league is and has always had infinitely more parity than college sports. So I am not sure where you are going with this? I posted earlier how many pro sports teams have won the last 15-20 titles and in each league there are more teams than either college basketball or college football.

College sports has never had much parity.

[murray87]

And a rundown on who CBS Sports considers the top 20 in the portal:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ranking-top-20-transfers-for-2022-all-big-12-honoree-nijel-pack-commits-to-miami-after-strong-sophomore-year/

The big man from NC State is intriguing.

[Xville]

Why do you think the NFL is wildly more popular than MLB or NBA ? Salary cap, and a level playing field. The only thing stopping an NFL team from the Super Bowl is poor management. Unlike the NBA and MLB where there are haves and have-nots, where half of those two leagues have no shot to win a title. A salary cap and shared monies amongst all the teammates, is the only way this will work. I'm for the players getting a piece of the pie, but this Pack deal is absurd.

I agree to a point but:

Mlb is boring as hell to the younger generation. The average baseball fan is white and in their fifties or a 5 year old.

Nba is extremely popular globally

Nfl is popular due to gambling not the sole reason by any means, but they market their game so much better than every other league and it’s not even close. The “everyone has a chance” is certainly a part of that, but it helps there are only 17 games and almost half the league makes the playoffs. Their playoffs are one game anything can happen type scenarios vs other leagues where there are at least 82 games followed by a seven game series (except even the nba and mlb are managing to f that up) where usually the better team is going to win

[GoMuskies]

The Willliams kid from Murray State is still available. I would love to get him. Stud.

[xukeith]

The Willliams kid from Murray State is still available. I would love to get him. Stud.

He has a lot of game. He defends, scores from everywhere, not embarrassing from FT line or 3 pnt land.

[BandAid]

You can withdraw from the NBA draft until mid-June. I’m guessing we see certain big names floating out in the portal for a while

[paulxu]

I wonder how many players go into the portal deal, and then don't get drafted, or picked up by another school, and then try to go back to their original school and find out their slot has been filled? (scholarship given to someone else)

[Olsingledigit]

You either negotiate a salary cap and terms (transfer restrictions, academic eligibility etc) and behave like every other sports league or you allow the free market to play out. The precedent was just hypocrisy and people have woken up to it.

Those other "leagues" all have unions that are allowed to bargain for the things you talk about. Colleges do not have a union that governs anything their athletes do. Sticky issue. I don't see any rules coming soon on this front.

[Xville]

Wondering about Xavier pinson… why has nothing happened and it has been about two weeks since we heard he was down to x and miss st. Either the report was bs, or he’s waiting on a few other teams to see if they lose out on option a and he’s their b? Is he Xavier’s b? Curious

[XUGRAD80]

College sports has never had much parity.

Would it be better for fans and players if there was much more parity?

I think the answer is yes.

[Xville]

Providence having a good time in the portal… picked up Noah Locke and Bryce Hopkins so far

[X Factor]

Wondering about Xavier pinson… why has nothing happened and it has been about two weeks since we heard he was down to x and miss st. Either the report was bs, or he’s waiting on a few other teams to see if they lose out on option a and he’s their b? Is he Xavier’s b? Curious

Or Coach Miller decided he wasn't a top priority and told him as much.

[Xville]

Or Coach Miller decided he wasn't a top priority and told him as much.

All for that… not a fan of his game.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Would it be better for fans and players if there was much more parity?

I think the answer is yes.

Yeah I think so. And to be honest this doesnt make parity worse to me. I mean a school who had a deep pocket donor who isnt a traditional power (or who didnt want to break previous rules) now has a chance to steal a guy from a bigger/better school.

I mean that has literally been the fear of some on here that X will lose guys to schools that arent as good as X at basketball that wouldnt have otherwise gone there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Or Coach Miller decided he wasn't a top priority and told him as much.


All for that… not a fan of his game.

Yeah, I don't know why, maybe wishful thinking, but the feeling I have is that X is seeing who else they may be able to get? Maybe Pinson is even ok waiting too? Who knows?

[Drew]

Those other "leagues" all have unions that are allowed to bargain for the things you talk about. Colleges do not have a union that governs anything their athletes do. Sticky issue. I don't see any rules coming soon on this front.

And those leagues are only allowed to exists in their monopolistic state because they have a CBA with the union. The recent supreme court ruling sent the signal that the NCAA was on very similar grounds. I expect a player's union within 10 years.

[GIMMFD]

I wonder how many players go into the portal deal, and then don't get drafted, or picked up by another school, and then try to go back to their original school and find out their slot has been filled? (scholarship given to someone else)

I read an article in The Athletic about a kid who was all-conference, lead the country maybe even in tackles as a linebacker, was a bit undersized etc. who went into the portal thinking he was gonna get swept up by a P5 team, and nobody came knocking, and now he's in limbo as a lot of spots have been filled, etc. Obviously the numbers between football and basketball are different, but I think it happens more than we know.


Yeah I think so. And to be honest this doesnt make parity worse to me. I mean a school who had a deep pocket donor who isnt a traditional power (or who didnt want to break previous rules) now has a chance to steal a guy from a bigger/better school.

I mean that has literally been the fear of some on here that X will lose guys to schools that arent as good as X at basketball that wouldnt have otherwise gone there.

Yeah literally though, what's stopping some rich billionaire alum from just throwing cash at a "play thing"?? Nothing with NIL, I mean hell look at what Texas A&M did in football (granted they aren't some scrub, but to out recruit Georgia and Alabama is impressive), oil money runs deep. I'm kind of shocked Phil Knight hasn't just turned Oregon into a play thing at this rate to be honest. It does even the playing field a little and bring more parity on, however some schools are obviously more loaded with rich alum than others. Not to mention, those rich alums have to care about the sport they're throwing money into.

[Xavgrad08]

Illinois State transfer Antonio Reeves is down to 5 Schools. ( UK, Nebraska, Xavier, Oregon, DePaul). Sean is aiming very high on recruiting.

[Xville]

Illinois State transfer Antonio Reeves is down to 5 Schools. ( UK, Nebraska, Xavier, Oregon, DePaul). Sean is aiming very high on recruiting.

Nice I like it! Fingers crossed

[xu82]

Illinois State transfer Antonio Reeves is down to 5 Schools. ( UK, Nebraska, Xavier, Oregon, DePaul). Sean is aiming very high on recruiting.

One of those schools concerns me more than the others. Fingers crossed!

[muskiefan82]

One of those schools concerns me more than the others. Fingers crossed!

Don't be worried about DePaul! LOL

[Xuperman]

Coach Ben Johnson snags Dawson Garcia from the portal along with a talented PG from Morehead. Gophers will be much improved.

[xavierj]

Coach Ben Johnson snags Dawson Garcia from the portal along with a talented PG from Morehead. Gophers will be much improved.

Garcia was a slam dunk for Minnesota since he probably needed to be closer to home. Hopefully he can focus on basketball this year. Sounds like the last year has been tough on him.

[bleedXblue]

Garcia was a slam dunk for Minnesota since he probably needed to be closer to home. Hopefully he can focus on basketball this year. Sounds like the last year has been tough on him.

wait, he's transferred twice now?

[Xuperman]

wait, he's transferred twice now?

Likely will get a waiver because of serious medical situations in his family.

[xavierj]

wait, he's transferred twice now?

Yes left North Carolina team mid season due to some deaths in his family back in Minnesota is the way I understand it.

[muskiefan82]

Yes left North Carolina team mid season due to some deaths in his family back in Minnesota is the way I understand it.

Damn. That just sucks to hear about anyone. I hope he is able to continue his path while helping his family. My sincere hopes for him and his future.

[HomerCecil]

Antonio Reeves commits to Kentucky

[GoMuskies]

Antonio Reeves commits to Kentucky

Hopefully at Kentucky he goes back to shooting 3s at a 30% clip like he did his first two years.

[muskiefan82]

Antonio Reeves commits to Kentucky

Shocked I tell you! I am shocked. LOL

[GoMuskies]

Malachi Smith from Chattanooga becomes the next hot name in the portal. Southern Conference player of the year. Played at Wright State his freshman year before wisely getting the hell out of Dayton.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's that damn NIL deal and all UK's money! Before NIL, no player would have ever picked UK over X!!!! College basketball is ruined!

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

It's that damn NIL deal and all UK's money! Before NIL, no player would have ever picked UK over X!!!! College basketball is ruined!

Egalitarian doctrines, like you support so aggressively, never result in removal of inequalities and never benefit the have nots. They always benefit elites. The rich are already getting richer even as you shout, from the rooftops, how much better off all of us are.

[XUBison]

Egalitarian doctrines, like you support so aggressively, never result in removal of inequalities and never benefit the have nots. They always benefit elites. The rich are already getting richer even as you shout, from the rooftops, how much better off all of us are.

Oh, he’s gone full blown goofball here… Just got to ignore him on this one.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Egalitarian doctrines, like you support so aggressively, never result in removal of inequalities and never benefit the have nots. They always benefit elites. The rich are already getting richer even as you shout, from the rooftops, how much better off all of us are.

Never once shouted anything of the sort. I am not better in any way from this. The coaches (control freaks by nature) sure as hell aren't better off from any of the new rules (just listen to any of them speak on how damaging it is to the kids!).

Never once have I claimed everyone is better off due to the new rules. You are just making stuff up.

[Drew]

Recruiting tracks 1 to 1 with athletic budget. If you want to fix that then cap athletic expenses. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the coaches will be suing the next day.

[XUGRAD80]

It's that damn NIL deal and all UK's money! Before NIL, no player would have ever picked UK over X!!!! College basketball is ruined!

Do you know exactly why he choose KY over anyone else? Is it possible that it is because he will possibly get a better NIL there, than he will elsewhere? You have directly, and sarcastically, supported the new NIL rules, right? You’ve speculated that it might even help a smaller school to land someone that they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten. But in reality this is all so new that none of us know for a fact exactly how it will all play out, do we? You’ve seemingly decided to go with the idea that this will all be great, and that nothing much as changed. Others have expressed the idea that it will ruin college sports as we know it and that it will only mean that the rich get richer.

This could be an example of either scenario, and only the player knows where the truth lies.

I only know that for whatever reason, he isn’t coming to X. That does not make me happy.

[MHettel]

Recruiting tracks 1 to 1 with athletic budget. If you want to fix that then cap athletic expenses. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the coaches will be suing the next day.

And success seems to track very closely to recruiting. And budgets seem to track closely to success.

seems like an infinite loop to me.

Dismissed

[MHettel]

I like how Jay Wright just retired from Villanova while at the Top.

And then doesn't rule out becoming an NBA Coach.

Nothing to see here, folks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do you know exactly why he choose KY over anyone else? Is it possible that it is because he will possibly get a better NIL there, than he will elsewhere? You have directly, and sarcastically, supported the new NIL rules, right? You’ve speculated that it might even help a smaller school to land someone that they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten. But in reality this is all so new that none of us know for a fact exactly how it will all play out, do we? You’ve seemingly decided to go with the idea that this will all be great, and that nothing much as changed. Others have expressed the idea that it will ruin college sports as we know it and that it will only mean that the rich get richer.

This could be an example of either scenario, and only the player knows where the truth lies.

I only know that for whatever reason, he isn’t coming to X. That does not make me happy.

I have never once said nothing has changed, a lot has obviously changed. My only contention this whole time is that in 5 years college basketball will not be ruined and we wont give all of this nearly as much time or thought.

[MHettel]

March 23, 2021- Freshman Walker Kessler enters the transfer portal after averaging 8.8 minutes per game as the #22 recruit in the nation.

April 1, 2021- Roy Williams retires from UNC saying, among other things, "I'm no longer the right man for this job"

These are independent events and are not related in any way.

[Xville]

March 23, 2021- Freshman Walker Kessler enters the transfer portal after averaging 8.8 minutes per game as the #22 recruit in the nation.

April 1, 2021- Roy Williams retires from UNC saying, among other things, "I'm no longer the right man for this job"

These are independent events and are not related in any way.

what exactly are you trying to insinuate?

https://www.on3.com/news/walker-kessler-reflects-unc-transfer/

[SemajParlor]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Walker Kessler was not the reason Roy Williams retired.

[XUGRAD80]

I might have missed this somehow, but I just saw that Ben Stanley has entered the transfer portal.

[MHettel]

what exactly are you trying to insinuate?

https://www.on3.com/news/walker-kessler-reflects-unc-transfer/

Do I really have to explain this?

Kessler didnt play much. He was the #22 rated recruit. He probably had an expectation to play more. I'm sure Roy Williams envisioned a larger role for Kessler during his sophomore through senior seasons. under the "old rules" Kessler would have to sit out a season in he were to transfer, so that would be a big deterrent. But not any more.

So Walker walks. And suddenly it occurs to Williams, that although Kessler only "earned" 8.8 minutes per game this year, he may have his hands forced to play a guy like this MORE minutes to keep him happy so he doesn't hit the road. Williams realizes that you dont have the ability to develop a guy for a year or two before he becomes the featured guy. This kind of approach was often VERY beneficial to EVERYONE involved. Ask BJ Raymond or Jason Love how their limited roles in their early seasons ultimately benefited them in the long run (benefited XU as well).

Williams was certainly counting on Kessler for at least the next year and probably had a groups of recruits already signed with the idea that Kessler would be the returning center. So much for that....

It was WIDELY known that Williams was miffed at the Kessler transfer situation.

[MHettel]

I might have missed this somehow, but I just saw that Ben Stanley has entered the transfer portal.

That was a couple weeks ago. It wasnt a huge topic on this board, but we was ROUNDLY sent off with a big hug my almost everyone here, and universal well wishes.

[Final4]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Walker Kessler was not the reason Roy Williams retired.

I would think there were various reasons for his retirement but this sheds some light on this specific topic.

https://keepingitheel.com/2021/04/02/unc-basketball-hall-fame-head-coach-sounds-off-kessler-decision/

[Drew]

And success seems to track very closely to recruiting. And budgets seem to track closely to success.

seems like an infinite loop to me.

Dismissed

Lol, what? So you agree with me. NIL changes nothing but shift more of the budget towards the athlete and away from facilities and coaches.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So a 70 year old coach decides to retire (maybe in small part bc of new rules he doesn't like) and that is supposed to make us all think that a free transfer year for players is bad?

Coaches, who make millions of dollars a year, jobs got a little bit harder and roster management a little tougher and we are supposed to feel sorry for them?

Are these the arguments against a free transfer year? Seriously?

:facepalm:

[D-West & PO-Z]

Can I also hilariously point out that Walker Kessler went on to great personal and team success at his new school and Carolina went on to the National Championship game? Great success for both the player who left and the school in which he left.

Could there be a worse example picked for trying to paint the free transfer year as a bad thing for players and the schools? :lol:

[xu82]

So a 70 year old coach decides to retire (maybe in small part bc of new rules he doesn't like) and that is supposed to make us all think that a free transfer year for players is bad?

Coaches, who make millions of dollars a year, jobs got a little bit harder and roster management a little tougher and we are supposed to feel sorry for them?

Are these the arguments against a free transfer year? Seriously?

:facepalm:

I have zero problem with the free transfer year. Coaches can go for more money whenever they want. You know, the guy who recruited them since high school and said come play for me. If he can ditch the “kid”, the player should have some freedom. I may not like the constant shuffle, but things change and it is what it is.

I’m less sure about the NIL stuff. I can’t say I love the Alabama QB making more than the Eagles QB. Should they be allowed to benefit from their NIL? I suppose so. The Colorado football player who couldn’t benefit from skiing endorsements was ridiculous! I just worry about the unintended consequences and nobody can say with any certainty what this will look like down the road. I wish their was a better plan in place with some guidelines, but it appears they are just going to wing it.

[MHettel]

Can I also hilariously point out that Walker Kessler went on to great personal and team success at his new school and Carolina went on to the National Championship game? Great success for both the player who left and the school in which he left.

Could there be a worse example picked for trying to paint the free transfer year as a bad thing for players and the schools? :lol:

Well, maybe UNC would have won the whole thing with Kessler?

Just sayin

[XUGRAD80]

I really wonder what the people that actually played college sports in the past think about the new NIL rules, and if the majority actually feel that the old system was unfair? I also wonder if any of the people on this board that are supporting the new rules fall into the group of ex-players? It seems to me that those who actually played in college (no matter what the sport) would have the best idea about if they were exploited or not, not someone who has only been a fan.

[Xville]

Do I really have to explain this?

Kessler didnt play much. He was the #22 rated recruit. He probably had an expectation to play more. I'm sure Roy Williams envisioned a larger role for Kessler during his sophomore through senior seasons. under the "old rules" Kessler would have to sit out a season in he were to transfer, so that would be a big deterrent. But not any more.

So Walker walks. And suddenly it occurs to Williams, that although Kessler only "earned" 8.8 minutes per game this year, he may have his hands forced to play a guy like this MORE minutes to keep him happy so he doesn't hit the road. Williams realizes that you dont have the ability to develop a guy for a year or two before he becomes the featured guy. This kind of approach was often VERY beneficial to EVERYONE involved. Ask BJ Raymond or Jason Love how their limited roles in their early seasons ultimately benefited them in the long run (benefited XU as well).

Williams was certainly counting on Kessler for at least the next year and probably had a groups of recruits already signed with the idea that Kessler would be the returning center. So much for that....

It was WIDELY known that Williams was miffed at the Kessler transfer situation.

1. You’re a jump to conclusions mat machine

2. You sure are making a lot of assumptions about Kessler just like boeheim and I’m guessing neither of you have ever met the kid.

[MHettel]

I would think there were various reasons for his retirement but this sheds some light on this specific topic.

https://keepingitheel.com/2021/04/02/unc-basketball-hall-fame-head-coach-sounds-off-kessler-decision/

GOLD

Quote: Williams was clear on one thing: he didn’t like the transfer rule that the NCAA put into place this year. “I think it will be the most significant piece of legislation that’s ever happened in college basketball,” Williams stated, noting that he didn’t like it, and acknowledging that we’re in a generation of college sports dissimilar to the one he made a career in.

So Roy Williams went on the record saying he doesn't like the rule and makes the point that the game has already changed. But nevermind.

Nothing to see here. I guess we will just wait and see.

[MHettel]

1. You’re a jump to conclusions mat machine

2. You sure are making a lot of assumptions about Kessler just like boeheim and I’m guessing neither of you have ever met the kid.

I mean, there is this article that Final4 found.

https://keepingitheel.com/2021/04/02/unc-basketball-hall-fame-head-coach-sounds-off-kessler-decision/


So I retract my opinion about Roy Williams essentially retiring, in part, due to the Kessler situation.

Just read the article and hear it directly from Roy.

[Xville]

I mean, there is this article that Final4 found.

https://keepingitheel.com/2021/04/02/unc-basketball-hall-fame-head-coach-sounds-off-kessler-decision/


So I retract my opinion about Roy Williams essentially retiring, in part, due to the Kessler situation.

Just read the article and hear it directly from Roy.

So poor Roy doesn’t like the transfer rule. The guy who jumped at the chance to go to unc without sitting out a year.

Are you saying that players shouldn’t have the chance to transfer freely?

[D-West & PO-Z]

GOLD

Quote: Williams was clear on one thing: he didn’t like the transfer rule that the NCAA put into place this year. “I think it will be the most significant piece of legislation that’s ever happened in college basketball,” Williams stated, noting that he didn’t like it, and acknowledging that we’re in a generation of college sports dissimilar to the one he made a career in.

So Roy Williams went on the record saying he doesn't like the rule and makes the point that the game has already changed. But nevermind.

Nothing to see here. I guess we will just wait and see.

College coach doesnt like new rule that makes his job more difficult. Wow, really shocking breaking news!

You were just saying how of course players (even ones who dont get NIL deals) think players getting NIL deals is great, because duh they are the players. Well same thing here for coaches.

It is the least surprising thing in the world that a 70 year old coach who is used to having complete control doesn't like losing some control.

[MHettel]

So poor Roy doesn’t like the transfer rule. The guy who jumped at the chance to go to unc without sitting out a year.

Are you saying that players shouldn’t have the chance to transfer freely?

I’m saying something in between what we HAD and what we HAVE could work fine. I’ve no problem with kids that aren’t getting PT at a school to be able to transfer to a lower program without sitting. That would require some framework about how many minutes per available healthy game would trigger this, and of course some way to put teams into maybe 4 or 5 groups to determine what it means to transfer “down”.

I’d make all other transfers sit out a year.

But I’d keep the waiver process but make it more transparent.

This idea of the Freshman of the year in a small conference jumping ship to a blue blood is not good for the game.

The NIL could be fixed too. It’s the Wild West right now.

The best thing that could ever happen to Xavier Basketball would be for me to have a Billion dollars. I’d buy the best players available every year

[Drew]

I really wonder what the people that actually played college sports in the past think about the new NIL rules, and if the majority actually feel that the old system was unfair? I also wonder if any of the people on this board that are supporting the new rules fall into the group of ex-players? It seems to me that those who actually played in college (no matter what the sport) would have the best idea about if they were exploited or not, not someone who has only been a fan.

I'd imagine those who played non revenue sports were fine with the situation as they were getting a sweet deal. Those who play revenue sports had to of had the thought cross their mind that their coach making thousands of dollars per hour while they got a free dorm and books is probably unfair.

[Xuperman]

Former VaTech/Memphis standout wants to play in Clifton for some reason.

[Final4]

I'd imagine those who played non revenue sports were fine with the situation as they were getting a sweet deal. Those who play revenue sports had to of had the thought cross their mind that their coach making thousands of dollars per hour while they got a free dorm and books is probably unfair.

So the players at UK are treated unfairly because Cal makes $7m/year. So I guess the corollary would be that the players at Kent State (who work just as hard) feel they are treated fairly because their coach only makes $300k/year.

[XUGRAD80]

I'd imagine those who played non revenue sports were fine with the situation as they were getting a sweet deal. Those who play revenue sports had to of had the thought cross their mind that their coach making thousands of dollars per hour while they got a free dorm and books is probably unfair.

Please explain to me what the sweet deal that those players were/are getting?

Keep in mind that while 100% of the last few incoming classes at X received some kind of financial aid (or so the university has claimed), that VERY few non-revenue athletes receive an full athletic scholarship. In fact, the NCAA regulates the number of scholarships that any particular sports team can distribute. In almost every case it is less than the number to fill out a full lineup. Yet even though the vast majority of student-athletes are not on athletic scholarship, they still do everything they can to participate and excel. Why do you think that is?

(Basketball and football are only a tiny fraction of the total number of NCAA student-athletes at any school.)

[Drew]

Please explain to me what the sweet deal that those players were/are getting?

Keep in mind that while 100% of the last few incoming classes at X received some kind of financial aid (or so the university has claimed), that VERY few non-revenue athletes receive an full athletic scholarship. In fact, the NCAA regulates the number of scholarships that any particular sports team can distribute. In almost every case it is less than the number to fill out a full lineup. Yet even though the vast majority of student-athletes are not on athletic scholarship, they still do everything they can to participate and excel. Why do you think that is?

(Basketball and football are only a tiny fraction of the total number of NCAA student-athletes at any school.)

It's not complicated. Non revenue sports athletes are a cost to the university and thus a credit to the athletes. The opposite is true for revenue athletes.

As for those participating without scholarship. Obviously they are doing it for love of the game. But I can't imagine a single one would turn down a scholarship or more if offered.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Please explain to me what the sweet deal that those players were/are getting?

Keep in mind that while 100% of the last few incoming classes at X received some kind of financial aid (or so the university has claimed), that VERY few non-revenue athletes receive an full athletic scholarship. In fact, the NCAA regulates the number of scholarships that any particular sports team can distribute. In almost every case it is less than the number to fill out a full lineup. Yet even though the vast majority of student-athletes are not on athletic scholarship, they still do everything they can to participate and excel. Why do you think that is?

(Basketball and football are only a tiny fraction of the total number of NCAA student-athletes at any school.)

You always try and do this, bring other athletes and sports into the equation that just aren't comparable. I get it is because of your perspective as one of those former non revenue generating athletes yourself but it just is apples to oranges.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's not complicated. Non revenue sports athletes are a cost to the university and thus a credit to the athletes. The opposite is true for revenue athletes.

As for those participating without scholarship. Obviously they are doing it for love of the game. But I can't imagine a single one would turn down a scholarship or more if offered.

And if those on scholarship felt it wasn't worth it or that they were in a bad situation and said F it, I quit the team, it would not effect their ability to stay at the school at all as they are already paying their own way.

[MHettel]

And if those on scholarship felt it wasn't worth it or that they were in a bad situation and said F it, I quit the team, it would not effect their ability to stay at the school at all as they are already paying their own way.

So, does this mean that those that are on scholarship that would like to quit the team but don't want to drop from school are burdened by the fact that they are getting a scholarship in the first place? Why couldn't they just drop out and pay for themselves like most of the other athletes and nearly ALL of the non-athlete students?

I'm confused. Sounds to me like the scholarship is quite valuable.

It's a shame that there are kids out there playing non-revenue sports and have the talent to play at the high D1 level in their sport but lack the financial resources to do so because the schools don't offer aid for those sports.

We should solve that problem by giving a basketball player a Corvette.

[muskiefan82]

So this is interesting now. If you were able to give NIL deals of sufficient amounts that the player could pay for school on their own and they were walk ons and NOT on scholarship, would the school even have a player limit for the team? Could you have 10 guys on NIL deals and another 13 on scholarship and run 4 teams of pre-NBA superstars out every 4 minutes and just crush teams? Is this even possible?

[bjf123]

Please explain to me what the sweet deal that those players were/are getting?

Keep in mind that while 100% of the last few incoming classes at X received some kind of financial aid (or so the university has claimed), that VERY few non-revenue athletes receive an full athletic scholarship. In fact, the NCAA regulates the number of scholarships that any particular sports team can distribute. In almost every case it is less than the number to fill out a full lineup. Yet even though the vast majority of student-athletes are not on athletic scholarship, they still do everything they can to participate and excel. Why do you think that is?

(Basketball and football are only a tiny fraction of the total number of NCAA student-athletes at any school.)

No idea how it works for the golf team today, but way back when, the team got one scholarship and I got 1/5 or 1/6 of that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

We should probaby eliminate the need for the kids to go to school in order to play on sports teams altogether. Worked for UNC. Granted, they actually eliminated the need for any student to actually go to school. That may go too far.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So, does this mean that those that are on scholarship that would like to quit the team but don't want to drop from school are burdened by the fact that they are getting a scholarship in the first place? Why couldn't they just drop out and pay for themselves like most of the other athletes and nearly ALL of the non-athlete students?

I'm confused. Sounds to me like the scholarship is quite valuable.

It's a shame that there are kids out there playing non-revenue sports and have the talent to play at the high D1 level in their sport but lack the financial resources to do so because the schools don't offer aid for those sports.

We should solve that problem by giving a basketball player a Corvette.

Private businesses giving a kid a Corvette has no bearing on a schools ability or willingness to give a scholarship to a non revenue generating athlete. You seem to keep missing the part where the schools aren't doing the paying for NIL deals.

Maybe if Coach Cal made 4 million a year instead of 7 million we could stop pretending like the schools don't make enough money to give a track athlete a scholarship.

But, no, yeah, the real problem must be a car dealership giving a kid a car.

[Drew]

So, does this mean that those that are on scholarship that would like to quit the team but don't want to drop from school are burdened by the fact that they are getting a scholarship in the first place? Why couldn't they just drop out and pay for themselves like most of the other athletes and nearly ALL of the non-athlete students?

I'm confused. Sounds to me like the scholarship is quite valuable.

It's a shame that there are kids out there playing non-revenue sports and have the talent to play at the high D1 level in their sport but lack the financial resources to do so because the schools don't offer aid for those sports.

We should solve that problem by giving a basketball player a Corvette.

Or better yet, buy the bball coach another Maserati.

[XUGRAD80]

You always try and do this, bring other athletes and sports into the equation that just aren't comparable. I get it is because of your perspective as one of those former non revenue generating athletes yourself but it just is apples to oranges.

If these new rules were only for some sports, that would be true. But they aren’t. If the participants in certain sports were only playing because it earned them a scholarship, it would be true. But they aren’t.

The one thing that you’re missing in all of this is that there is a value to participation that goes way beyond what can be calculated by merely looking at numbers. I sincerely think that 99% of the players don’t give the coaches salary a thought. I sincerely think that while everyone wants to make money, the inability to do so never caused even one player to say F this, it’s unfair, I quit. “Players” want to play. Period. Most will do anything for the opportunity to do so. I have seen people turn down scholarships because they no longer had the desire to play. I’ve also seen lots of HS students that had the talent to play in college, but don’t have the desire. Playing college sports is hard. There’s nothing glamorous about getting home from game/match at 2 in the morning and having to be at an 8am class. There nothing fun about traveling through a cold winter Saturday night while the rest of your friends are at a party that you’re going to miss. Or getting up at 6am to lift or run. You don’t do these things because it earns you a scholarship. You do these things because you love the sport. Those that know, know. Those who don’t know, haven’t done it. D-W, you just don’t know. All you seem to see are numbers. I never knew how much any of the coaches made. I never knew what the budget was. I never cared. All I cared about was about trying to be the absolute best I could be and to do all I could to chase championships and win.

Now having said that, let me say this…..I LIKE the idea that players can make some money off of their talents while still in school. I just don’t like it the way it’s set up. I think that it leaves itself open to too many opportunities for abuse. I’ve absolutely no problem with a player getting paid for such things as putting on clinics or special tutoring/coaching of groups or individuals. I’ve no problem with a player getting paid to compete in a different sport during the off-season. Let a football player run professional track during the off-season if his coaches say it’s OK. Let a player get paid for coaching a high school team. We aren’t talking millions of dollars here and nobody is going to get rich. Put a limit on just how much money a player can make as an individual before they have to pay their own way. Right now it’s the wild Wild West and pretty much everything goes.

[MHettel]

You seem to keep missing the part where the schools aren't doing the paying for NIL deals.



And you keep missing the fact that I'm talking about the ENTIRE ecosystem. You have Scholarship athletes and non-scholarship athletes. Coaches, the NCAA, and NIL Sponsors. That's the INNER circle. orbiting the inner circle and players families, fans, and non-athlete students.

You cant have the conversation and just focus on a couple parts of the ecosystem. Your entire argument is that the coaches get paid a lot so the Scholarship athletes deserve more. My point is you just further aggravate the existing issues.

A real "just" solution would be to allocate scholarship dollars to the kids that dont get any / get very little.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If these new rules were only for some sports, that would be true. But they aren’t. If the participants in certain sports were only playing because it earned them a scholarship, it would be true. But they aren’t.

The one thing that you’re missing in all of this is that there is a value to participation that goes way beyond what can be calculated by merely looking at numbers. I sincerely think that 99% of the players don’t give the coaches salary a thought. I sincerely think that while everyone wants to make money, the inability to do so never caused even one player to say F this, it’s unfair, I quit. “Players” want to play. Period. Most will do anything for the opportunity to do so. I have seen people turn down scholarships because they no longer had the desire to play. I’ve also seen lots of HS students that had the talent to play in college, but don’t have the desire. Playing college sports is hard. There’s nothing glamorous about getting home from game/match at 2 in the morning and having to be at an 8am class. There nothing fun about traveling through a cold winter Saturday night while the rest of your friends are at a party that you’re going to miss. Or getting up at 6am to lift or run. You don’t do these things because it earns you a scholarship. You do these things because you love the sport. Those that know, know. Those who don’t know, haven’t done it. D-W, you just don’t know. All you seem to see are numbers. I never knew how much any of the coaches made. I never knew what the budget was. I never cared. All I cared about was about trying to be the absolute best I could be and to do all I could to chase championships and win.

Now having said that, let me say this…..I LIKE the idea that players can make some money off of their talents while still in school. I just don’t like it the way it’s set up. I think that it leaves itself open to too many opportunities for abuse. I’ve absolutely no problem with a player getting paid for such things as putting on clinics or special tutoring/coaching of groups or individuals. I’ve no problem with a player getting paid to compete in a different sport during the off-season. Let a football player run professional track during the off-season if his coaches say it’s OK. Let a player get paid for coaching a high school team. We aren’t talking millions of dollars here and nobody is going to get rich. Put a limit on just how much money a player can make as an individual before they have to pay their own way. Right now it’s the wild Wild West and pretty much everything goes.

Why is there a limit needed? How is it being abused? What defines abused if there is not limit, just something you don't like?

Again, it is still apples to oranges comparison. No one is paying someone in cross country (except in some rare unique circumstance) any money for anything. So your past experiences dont apply. It is easy to say I d care about money when you have a 0% chance of making any money.

Even for basketball players or football players now, their opinions may differ from past because they now have an opportunity previous players didn't.

I just can't understand anyone cares how much money a college player makes? How does it affect anyone else? Outside of the doomsday preppers scenarios I don't think will happen on a large scale.

[paulxu]

We should probaby eliminate the need for the kids to go to school in order to play on sports teams altogether. Worked for UNC. Granted, they actually eliminated the need for any student to actually go to school. That may go too far.

You can't be the University of No Classes...unless you actually have your athletes attend no classes.

[Drew]

And you keep missing the fact that I'm talking about the ENTIRE ecosystem. You have Scholarship athletes and non-scholarship athletes. Coaches, the NCAA, and NIL Sponsors. That's the INNER circle. orbiting the inner circle and players families, fans, and non-athlete students.

You cant have the conversation and just focus on a couple parts of the ecosystem. Your entire argument is that the coaches get paid a lot so the Scholarship athletes deserve more. My point is you just further aggravate the existing issues.

A real "just" solution would be to allocate scholarship dollars to the kids that dont get any / get very little.

Are you a socialist? What is just about giving money to people who haven't earned it from people that have earned it.

[A Fan]

Are you a socialist? What is just about giving money to people who haven't earned it from people that have earned it.

XuGrad80, MHettel and DWest have this ongoing debate about the consequences of the NIL/ Transfer Portal. DWest takes the position that nothing will change. MHettel says there will be massive changes, XUGrad80 is forlorn that student athletes will no longer play for the love of the game.
Drew cuts to the quick. Any student athlete who wish’s to monetize his athletic value now has a free market opportunity and whatever effect that has on college athletics will happen. Nobody knows how all of this will play out . But DWest’s claim that nothing will change in college sports is myopic. Boosters are now putting their “ college athletic support” into NiL collectives . Less money will flow into athletic budgets. Boosters will be recruiters. Collectives will be influential in playing time. Why wouldn’t they be? Without them you can’t construct the roster. Players will enter the portal each year to see if their market value has increased and leave or negotiate a new deal. Players that aren’t getting expected playing time will transfer . If you have a player who stays 4 years it will most likely be because he is not marketable. How will non revenue sports be affected if Booster dollars go to NIL collectives.? Will Boosters want to endow the collective instead of the coaches salary. ? MHettel talks about the affect on the “ ecosystem” . I would call it the trickle down effect. Title X11 . Some prognosticators say we will see the “ Sean Miller Basketball Club” , an individual entity that will contract with Xavier to use the schools name and affiliation , use the Cintas Center, and be your team. Why not. Many schools have already formed joint ventures with marketing organizations to offer athletes NIL deals where the athlete gets to use the schools name if they use their marketing firm where the school gets a cut. This is an attempt by the schools not to lose control to Booster cooperatives. It is the Wild West. Hold on to the horns on your saddle.

[Lloyd Braun]

This story is pretty interesting.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33823826/nil-agent-says-miami-hoops-star-isaiah-wong-enter-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-increased

Wonder how this will end… some harsh reality for some of these players unfortunately.

"Isaiah is under contract," Ruiz said in a text message to ESPN. "He has been treated by LifeWallet exceptionally well. If that is what he decides, I wish him well, however, I DO NOT renegotiate! I cannot disclose the amount, but what I can say is that he was treated very fairly."

[D-West & PO-Z]

DWest takes the position that nothing will change. .

I have literally never said this. Again, my only contention is that in 5 years college basketball will not be ruined due to these new rules and that we wont give NIL or free transfer year nearly as much thought or discussion.

[xavierj]

I have literally never said this. Again, my only contention is that in 5 years college basketball will not be ruined due to these new rules and that we wont give NIL or free transfer year nearly as much thought or discussion.

This is just getting started. With agents running NIL deals and demanding more money already it will get stupid. More power to the players for getting what they can but the agents are the ones who will fuck everything up. I mean there is no way for everyone to compete. It will be the haves and the have nots. As a Xavier fan I fear Xavier will struggle to keep up.

[UCGRAD4X]

This story is pretty interesting.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33823826/nil-agent-says-miami-hoops-star-isaiah-wong-enter-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-increased

Wonder how this will end… some harsh reality for some of these players unfortunately.

"Isaiah is under contract," Ruiz said in a text message to ESPN. "He has been treated by LifeWallet exceptionally well. If that is what he decides, I wish him well, however, I DO NOT renegotiate! I cannot disclose the amount, but what I can say is that he was treated very fairly."

I may be part of the 'get off my lawn' crowd, but this shit makes me much less interested in college sports in general.

Then there's the next story about G'town and Carey deciding if he wants to stay, go pro or play for a 4th team.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33822685/don-carey-collin-holloway-become-latest-georgetown-men-basketball-players-transfer

[Final4]

XuGrad80, MHettel and DWest have this ongoing debate about the consequences of the NIL/ Transfer Portal. DWest takes the position that nothing will change. MHettel says there will be massive changes, XUGrad80 is forlorn that student athletes will no longer play for the love of the game.
Drew cuts to the quick. Any student athlete who wish’s to monetize his athletic value now has a free market opportunity and whatever effect that has on college athletics will happen. Nobody knows how all of this will play out . But DWest’s claim that nothing will change in college sports is myopic. Boosters are now putting their “ college athletic support” into NiL collectives . Less money will flow into athletic budgets. Boosters will be recruiters. Collectives will be influential in playing time. Why wouldn’t they be? Without them you can’t construct the roster. Players will enter the portal each year to see if their market value has increased and leave or negotiate a new deal. Players that aren’t getting expected playing time will transfer . If you have a player who stays 4 years it will most likely be because he is not marketable. How will non revenue sports be affected if Booster dollars go to NIL collectives.? Will Boosters want to endow the collective instead of the coaches salary. ? MHettel talks about the affect on the “ ecosystem” . I would call it the trickle down effect. Title X11 . Some prognosticators say we will see the “ Sean Miller Basketball Club” , an individual entity that will contract with Xavier to use the schools name and affiliation , use the Cintas Center, and be your team. Why not. Many schools have already formed joint ventures with marketing organizations to offer athletes NIL deals where the athlete gets to use the schools name if they use their marketing firm where the school gets a cut. This is an attempt by the schools not to lose control to Booster cooperatives. It is the Wild West. Hold on to the horns on your saddle.

I think this is spot on. And to add insult to injury what happens when dirty money is introduced into the NIL arena (and I’m sure it probably already has)? Do NIL sponsors ultimately have more control over the players than the coaches and schools and, if so, what are the associated ramifications? A lot of these player’s families are dirt poor. I can see parents openly and aggressively trying to leverage their sons for a payday today. That’s a real healthy environment/relationship.

[paulxu]

We need a couple of Muskie Billionaires to help us along.

[Xavier]

Saw on Twitter Souley Boum (UTEP 6-foot-3 guard who shot 37% from 3 and averaged 20 ppg) Is making an official visit to Xavier. He has one year of eligibility left.

[XUGRAD80]

Actually, I'm not saying that kids will lose their desire to play for love of the game. I'm saying that it has always been there and that it is the real reason that they play. That "love of the game" and that desire to participate are what drive athletes. The opportunities that are given, that allow them to do so, are the real payoff. Those opportunities cannot be measured in dollars and cents. I've never met a college athlete that was really serious about playing that wasn't willing to make great sacrifices in order to do so. It is the minority, not the majority, that are only looking at it as a payday or a way to pay for a college education. I really don't think that vast majority of athletes are sitting there counting the house and looking at how much money a coach makes or how much money a university takes in on ticket sales. They just want to play. Nothing more, nothing less. The opportunity to do so....priceless.


the ones that are concerned about getting their "fair share"?.....agents, relatives, friends, fans. Not the players.

[Drew]

Personally, I am loving the chaos the NCAA has brought upon themselves. You see, for me the status quo was the problem. College basketball is literally worth billions a year and the main drivers of this are unpaid. Now you can mince words about the value of a scholarship, but unless dollars are in your bank you aren't being paid imo.

If the NCAA had a shred of courage they would've adapted and found a compromise so that the student athletes would be well compensated while also maintaining the traditions (transfer chaos, NIL embarrassment are killing the reputation of the game). But they weren't, and instead chose to stick their head in the ground and pinch every penny they could.

[Masterofreality]

Hearing we have a PG commit coming out of the Portal plus one we are close on as a recruit, but the “recruit” name I’ve heard seems to be a duplicate of Des Claude, so I’m not so sure about that. No names please, but I have an idea.
And I'm not sure if Steele could have handled this NIL recruiting world. He has zero International connections and was only domestic. Most of the International talent just cares about getting to the US and not worried *Yet* about NIL stuff. Sean is much better equipped to mine that vein.
It’s a whole new world.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I may be part of the 'get off my lawn' crowd, but this shit makes me much less interested in college sports in general.

Yup. Ultimately fan interest, or lack of it, will determine how deep this permeates into college basketball. So far, NIL is taking over SEC football and there doesn't appear to be backlash from disgusted fans. But, players trying to re-negotiate deals, agent involvement, wide-spread free agency, rich getting richer......this will kill my interest even as many others are O.K. with it. The train has left the station so we shall see where it goes.

[boozehound]

I think this is spot on. And to add insult to injury what happens when dirty money is introduced into the NIL arena (and I’m sure it probably already has)? Do NIL sponsors ultimately have more control over the players than the coaches and schools and, if so, what are the associated ramifications? A lot of these player’s families are dirt poor. I can see parents openly and aggressively trying to leverage their sons for a payday today. That’s a real healthy environment/relationship.

Yeah. This all seems bad in the long run, particularly for Xavier-type programs who don't have ultra deep pockets and billionaire alum. I am in favor of players being paid, but the way this is happening is kind of a shit show. Annual bidding wars for transfers, etc. it's going to add a lot of uncertainty.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah. This all seems bad in the long run, particularly for Xavier-type programs who don't have ultra deep pockets and billionaire alum. I am in favor of players being paid, but the way this is happening is kind of a shit show. Annual bidding wars for transfers, etc. it's going to add a lot of uncertainty.

International is the answer. (See Gonzaga)

[A Fan]

International is the answer. (See Gonzaga)


International is not the answer. It is an accelerant. Gonzaga, St. Mary’s and Utah have had success recruiting internationally because the top European basketball clubs have a “ win now” perspective and developing young players is costly . Thus, the young players see a better economic opportunity in America . And this flow will be accelerated with the NIL opportunities for the top European players. And the more “ paid” players you bring into college basketball the changes on the horizon will also accelerate.

[A Fan]

Personally, I am loving the chaos the NCAA has brought upon themselves. You see, for me the status quo was the problem. College basketball is literally worth billions a year and the main drivers of this are unpaid. Now you can mince words about the value of a scholarship, but unless dollars are in your bank you aren't being paid imo.

If the NCAA had a shred of courage they would've adapted and found a compromise so that the student athletes would be well compensated while also maintaining the traditions (transfer chaos, NIL embarrassment are killing the reputation of the game). But they weren't, and instead chose to stick their head in the ground and pinch every penny they could.
All of this is true. The NCAA ‘s pot of gold is the sale of broadcast rights. The Big East pot of gold is broadcast rights. The lawyers and agents will mine that gold. Why should the players not receive a piece of that? Once you open the door to the players monetizing their contributions to revenue creation there is nothing that will be beyond the reach of the players. Why do you need an NCAA ? After Congress, state legislature, federal and state courts all create a new landscape for college athletics, there will be nothing left for the NCAA to govern since their governing power will be subsumed.

[JTG]

Personally, I am loving the chaos the NCAA has brought upon themselves. You see, for me the status quo was the problem. College basketball is literally worth billions a year and the main drivers of this are unpaid. Now you can mince words about the value of a scholarship, but unless dollars are in your bank you aren't being paid imo.
.

Tell that to the millions of people, myself included, who spent 10 years paying off student loans. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, and certainly not the bulk of D1 athletes.

[Drew]

Tell that to the millions of people, myself included, who spent 10 years paying off student loans. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, and certainly not the bulk of D1 athletes.

Cry more.

[GIMMFD]

Personally, I am loving the chaos the NCAA has brought upon themselves. You see, for me the status quo was the problem. College basketball is literally worth billions a year and the main drivers of this are unpaid. Now you can mince words about the value of a scholarship, but unless dollars are in your bank you aren't being paid imo.

If the NCAA had a shred of courage they would've adapted and found a compromise so that the student athletes would be well compensated while also maintaining the traditions (transfer chaos, NIL embarrassment are killing the reputation of the game). But they weren't, and instead chose to stick their head in the ground and pinch every penny they could.

Well that's the driving force beyond this whole thing right, the NCAA's incompetence? At least I think so, can't think of a worse run organization. The NCAA wasn't proactive, or progressive thinking enough in a world that's rapidly changing and the leadership was poor and looked so damn incompetent. The horror stories of rejecting/accepting waivers seemingly at random, the varying degrees of punishment for schools (slap on the wrist for the big guys, but let's punish the living hell out of Mizzou for self-reporting), etc. I'm with you in that the NCAA completely brought this upon themselves, and honestly probably is a bit deserved.

[xavierj]

Hearing we have a PG commit coming out of the Portal plus one we are close on as a recruit, but the “recruit” name I’ve heard seems to be a duplicate of Des Claude, so I’m not so sure about that. No names please, but I have an idea.
And I'm not sure if Steele could have handled this NIL recruiting world. He has zero International connections and was only domestic. Most of the International talent just cares about getting to the US and not worried *Yet* about NIL stuff. Sean is much better equipped to mine that vein.
It’s a whole new world.

I think you are wrong on the type of player the high school recruit is. He is not like Dez. Dez is more of a PG, the kid they are close on is more of an athletic wing that will not play the point in college. Grew from about 5’6 to 6’6” since his freshman year. Believe he had like 31 pts 17 rebounds and 7 blocks in his state championship game playing the point.

[Masterofreality]

I think you are wrong on the type of player the high school recruit is. He is not like Dez. Dez is more of a PG, the kid they are close on is more of an athletic wing that will not play the point in college. Grew from about 5’6 to 6’6” since his freshman year. Believe he had like 31 pts 17 rebounds and 7 blocks in his state championship game playing the point.

Possibly……
I don’t religiously follow recruiting much so I was going off the size similarity & PG position info.
I do think we are talking about the same kid tho

[Smails]

Possibly……
I don’t religiously follow recruiting much so I was going off the size similarity & PG position info.
I do think we are talking about the same kid tho

2023?

[xavierj]

2023?

Xavier is actively trying to land an unsigned 2022 recruit.

[BandAid]

Xavier is actively trying to land an unsigned 2022 recruit.

Y’all don’t gotta say the name…we all know it’s Paul McMillan

[xavierj]

Y’all don’t gotta say the name…we all know it’s Paul McMillan

lol. I don’t think Paul is 6’6”. Anyway the guy I am thinking visited Xavier this week and is at UK today. It’s not a secret.

https://mobile.twitter.com/prospectsbball/status/1520056115425427458

https://mobile.twitter.com/bctimes/status/1519606867378552832

https://mobile.twitter.com/Adou_Thiero/status/1519267736576311297

[Smails]

Y’all don’t gotta say the name…we all know it’s Paul McMillan

Ha! I was hoping it was Adou..

[Final4]

lol. I don’t think Paul is 6’6”. Anyway the guy I am thinking visited Xavier this week and is at UK today. It’s not a secret.

https://mobile.twitter.com/prospectsbball/status/1520056115425427458

https://mobile.twitter.com/bctimes/status/1519606867378552832

https://mobile.twitter.com/Adou_Thiero/status/1519267736576311297


His dad played for Calipari so it will be interesting to see how the UK visit turns out. The kids a stud. Incredible DNA. They should fly Sato in to speak to him.

[xudash]

Yup. Ultimately fan interest, or lack of it, will determine how deep this permeates into college basketball. So far, NIL is taking over SEC football and there doesn't appear to be backlash from disgusted fans. But, players trying to re-negotiate deals, agent involvement, wide-spread free agency, rich getting richer......this will kill my interest even as many others are O.K. with it. The train has left the station so we shall see where it goes.

I live in the Southeast. Please allow me to assure you - with comical intent - that SEC football fans probably are enjoying all this, as it gives them the chance to do a lot of cock walk bragging over which schools have the biggest capacity to load up on car dealership, etc. commercials, as they buy themselves a trip to Atlanta and then the playoffs beyond.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My parents saw him at dinner with Miller and Dante the other night at the Precinct.

[xavierj]

His dad played for Calipari so it will be interesting to see how the UK visit turns out. The kids a stud. Incredible DNA. They should fly Sato in to speak to him.

His dad did play for Cal but think he may have transferred out while playing for him. He will have a huge opportunity at Xavier and not sure what Kentuckys plans would be but it wouldn’t be to play much this coming year. And Kentucky is always going to recruit 5 stars in your same position. Hope he chooses Xavier. Think he could be very good.

[Masterofreality]

his dad did play for cal but think he may have transferred out while playing for him. He will have a huge opportunity at xavier and not sure what kentuckys plans would be but it wouldn’t be to play much this coming year. And kentucky is always going to recruit 5 stars in your same position. Hope he chooses xavier. Think he could be very good.

agree 100%

[bjf123]

Who didn’t see this coming? Raise my NIL income or I’ll transfer.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/04/29/miami-isaiah-wong-basketball-threatening-transfer-portal-nil-compensation-nijel-pack-john-ruiz-lifewallet?fbclid=IwAR2XBsNwntgTe9S1nVJzCoj90nsdu-YvvZLHm2FpNx0R64zc23JjnVdHM8U


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

Ward chose LSU.

[xudash]

Ward chose LSU.

Well, I can't think of a school that is more similar to Xavier, or not. Cashing in in Baton Rouge.

[xavierj]

Ward chose LSU.

Shocked he didn’t end up at Georgetown. They literally hired an assistant coach, who was at Xavier, not as an assistant, just to get him, and still didn’t land him. LSU must have had a very nice NIL package.

[xu82]

Ward chose LSU.

Home to Ben Simmons. Ward will get paid to play. Simmons took it to a new level getting paid NOT TO PLAY!

[Drew]

Home to Ben Simmons. Ward will get paid to play. Simmons took it to a new level getting paid NOT TO PLAY!

If there ones thing this board can agree on, Ben Simmons is a fraud.

[waggy]

Who’s Ben Simmons?

[Xville]

Xavier pinson has reopened his recruitment beyond miss st and Xavier. He must not have liked what he heard. I think that is dodging a bullet.

[xavierj]

Xavier pinson has reopened his recruitment beyond miss st and Xavier. He must not have liked what he heard. I think that is dodging a bullet.

My guess is that neither Xavier or Mississippi State was really an option. Heard his transcripts are a mess, whatever that means.

[xuphan]

Sounds like UTEP transfer Souley Boum will be visiting Xavier.

[xavierj]

Sounds like UTEP transfer Souley Boum will be visiting Xavier.

I think he did or maybe is here now. Think he may be one that commits.

[JTG]

Sounds like UTEP transfer Souley Boum will be visiting Xavier.

Pretty sure Boum was at X yesterday.

[xudash]

Sounds like UTEP transfer Souley Boum will be visiting Xavier.

Any thoughts on this guy? Seems like this came out of left field, or low on the list. Hope I’m clueless on this.

[UCGRAD4X]

My guess is that neither Xavier or Mississippi State was really an option. Heard his transcripts are a mess, whatever that means.

Then why did we offer him?

[xavierj]

Then why did we offer him?

Not sure. My guess is they didn’t know all the details right away. I heard Xavier was pretty surprised when he announced he was down to them and Mississippi State.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Any thoughts on this guy? Seems like this came out of left field, or low on the list. Hope I’m clueless on this.

From what I've read, a pretty good player. MVP, I think, in his conference averaged almost 20 ppg. But, I read, he also declared for NBA draft so have to see how that goes. Has one year eligibility if he chooses to use it.

[MHettel]

I would like to pick up Boum.

Quick look at his stats, and I see one thing I'm very interested in.

In the last 2 years, he has taken more foul shots per minute than 70 of our last 75 players.

the only players to get to the line more often were (in order): Thornton, West, Sumner, Posey and Semaj.

And Boum has made 83% of his FTs, which is better than all of the listed 5.

The next guy on the list is Holloway. But Holloway barely edges out Boum in FT% (85%).

Considering that he does not appear to be the primary ballhandler, it would appear that Boum is a bit of a slasher that can draw contact.

I felt like this used to be a key part of the XU identity. We havent had a guy like this since Sumner went down years ago. I think this has been our Achilles heel (FTA per minute) over the last several seasons. Out of 75 Players, here is where some recent guys rank: Kunkle- #71, Odom- #60, Tandy- #69, Johnson- #67, Scruggs- #54, Marshall- #32, Goodin- #56, Castlin- #65, Moore- #74. This has been a problem....

When I was looking into this, I saw that Nunge is ranked #9 (very good) in this category, and Colby was #35 (decent, not great). Adding Boum could suddenly move us to the top of the ranks in FTA per game, and as a by product put lineup pressure on opposing teams and they have to defend against foul trouble.

Hope we get this guy.

[Olsingledigit]

Sounds like UTEP transfer Souley Boum will be visiting Xavier.

Sure it isn’t Jorell Saterfield?

[xukeith]

I would like to pick up Boum.

Quick look at his stats, and I see one thing I'm very interested in.

In the last 2 years, he has taken more foul shots per minute than 70 of our last 75 players.

the only players to get to the line more often were (in order): Thornton, West, Sumner, Posey and Semaj.

And Boum has made 83% of his FTs, which is better than all of the listed 5.

The next guy on the list is Holloway. But Holloway barely edges out Boum in FT% (85%).

Considering that he does not appear to be the primary ballhandler, it would appear that Boum is a bit of a slasher that can draw contact.

I felt like this used to be a key part of the XU identity. We havent had a guy like this since Sumner went down years ago. I think this has been our Achilles heel (FTA per minute) over the last several seasons. Out of 75 Players, here is where some recent guys rank: Kunkle- #71, Odom- #60, Tandy- #69, Johnson- #67, Scruggs- #54, Marshall- #32, Goodin- #56, Castlin- #65, Moore- #74. This has been a problem....

When I was looking into this, I saw that Nunge is ranked #9 (very good) in this category, and Colby was #35 (decent, not great). Adding Boum could suddenly move us to the top of the ranks in FTA per game, and as a by product put lineup pressure on opposing teams and they have to defend against foul trouble.

Hope we get this guy.

He does brighten up the efficiency numbers.

[IM4X]

I would like to pick up Boum.

Quick look at his stats, and I see one thing I'm very interested in.

In the last 2 years, he has taken more foul shots per minute than 70 of our last 75 players.

the only players to get to the line more often were (in order): Thornton, West, Sumner, Posey and Semaj.

And Boum has made 83% of his FTs, which is better than all of the listed 5.

The next guy on the list is Holloway. But Holloway barely edges out Boum in FT% (85%).

Considering that he does not appear to be the primary ballhandler, it would appear that Boum is a bit of a slasher that can draw contact.

I felt like this used to be a key part of the XU identity. We havent had a guy like this since Sumner went down years ago. I think this has been our Achilles heel (FTA per minute) over the last several seasons. Out of 75 Players, here is where some recent guys rank: Kunkle- #71, Odom- #60, Tandy- #69, Johnson- #67, Scruggs- #54, Marshall- #32, Goodin- #56, Castlin- #65, Moore- #74. This has been a problem....

When I was looking into this, I saw that Nunge is ranked #9 (very good) in this category, and Colby was #35 (decent, not great). Adding Boum could suddenly move us to the top of the ranks in FTA per game, and as a by product put lineup pressure on opposing teams and they have to defend against foul trouble.

Hope we get this guy.


Great research dig and discovery! Love those slashers who get to the line often. Agree. This once was a huge part of the identity of X teams years ago and something we have sorely been missing. I loved watching those earlier X teams attack the rim to either reel in opponents who had a bit of a lead in games or help create more separation at the end of games to put the game away.

Sounds like Boum comes with a precious skill that has been not been appreciated or emphasized enough by out last coach. When you have players on the roster who are really good at drawing contact and do it often, it will result in at least a few more wins every year. Marshall was a guy who (beside his erratic 3 point shooting) possessed that skill set. I would imagine Hankins would be pretty high on the list.

Before I saw your stats about Nunge being the 9th best at getting to the line and Jones being next best at it from the current roster, I had it in my head that those two felt most like the old X players with that kind of identity. I could see both of them getting to the line even more next year with Miller at the helm.

I hope we can land him too.

[GIMMFD]

I would like to pick up Boum.

Quick look at his stats, and I see one thing I'm very interested in.

In the last 2 years, he has taken more foul shots per minute than 70 of our last 75 players.

the only players to get to the line more often were (in order): Thornton, West, Sumner, Posey and Semaj.

And Boum has made 83% of his FTs, which is better than all of the listed 5.

The next guy on the list is Holloway. But Holloway barely edges out Boum in FT% (85%).

Considering that he does not appear to be the primary ballhandler, it would appear that Boum is a bit of a slasher that can draw contact.

I felt like this used to be a key part of the XU identity. We havent had a guy like this since Sumner went down years ago. I think this has been our Achilles heel (FTA per minute) over the last several seasons. Out of 75 Players, here is where some recent guys rank: Kunkle- #71, Odom- #60, Tandy- #69, Johnson- #67, Scruggs- #54, Marshall- #32, Goodin- #56, Castlin- #65, Moore- #74. This has been a problem....

When I was looking into this, I saw that Nunge is ranked #9 (very good) in this category, and Colby was #35 (decent, not great). Adding Boum could suddenly move us to the top of the ranks in FTA per game, and as a by product put lineup pressure on opposing teams and they have to defend against foul trouble.

Hope we get this guy.

Not to mention consistently above 35% from behind the 3 as well, and this team desperately needs some guys that can knock shots down from deep. Obviously won't have the same type of numbers in a better conference, but it looks like a pretty intriguing pick up. I wonder what his defense is like.

[xukeith]

Not to mention consistently above 35% from behind the 3 as well, and this team desperately needs some guys that can knock shots down from deep. Obviously won't have the same type of numbers in a better conference, but it looks like a pretty intriguing pick up. I wonder what his defense is like.

As good as he is and he is very efficient. But X needs a strong point guard who can defend and distribute. Hope he is that guy.

[xuphan]

Adou Thiero will commit May 8th and it looks like he will go to UK. Hopefully we will get some good news soon.

[noteggs]

John Calipari: “We’ve got another kid committed who is going to announce here shortly.”

Yea, I think that ship has sailed.

[xu82]

John Calipari: “We’ve got another kid committed who is going to announce here shortly.”

Yea, I think that ship has sailed.

….and then Calipari will go about trying to find a 5 Star recruit to replace him…….

[Masterofreality]

BOUM!!!
Anybody who's Twitter handle is "Buckets for Sale" is alright with me!

Plus, He’s got Soul(ey)!!!
Committed

[XU Rocks!]

BOUM!!!
Anybody who's Twitter handle is "Buckets for Sale" is alright with me!

Plus, He’s got Soul(ey)!!!
Committed
But I think he is also in the NBA draft (without an agent)? So still a chance he may not come if he gets drafted.

[xukeith]

But I think he is also in the NBA draft (without an agent)? So still a chance he may not come if he gets drafted.

Great catch. Excellent statistical analysis by MHettl

[MHettel]

nice. I think he's a sleeper. Free Throws are underrated....

[whopper]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2022/05/02/xavier-basketball-lands-high-scoring-utep-transfer-souley-boum/9621643002/
he is coming..

[Xuperman]

So, Boum announced the day after the Portal deadline. Is it possible that Coach Miller already knew he was coming, but didn't want to risk anyone else entering the Portal unexpectedly last second?

I know.....stupid suggestion.
:whack:

[Xuperman]

This stat kinda stands out.

Boum is a VOLUME shooter AND he doesn't like to come out of the game. He was the Miners feature player....nearly 37 minutes per game.

Boum- 438 FGA last year.
Scruggs was our leader with 319 attempts.

On a side note, he was teammates with Keonte Kennedy.

[XU-PA]

So, Boum announced the day after the Portal deadline. Is it possible that Coach Miller already knew he was coming, but didn't want to risk anyone else entering the Portal unexpectedly last second?

I know.....stupid suggestion.
:whack:

Nope. He announced weeks ago.

https://www.ktsm.com/sports/college-sports/utep/uteps-souley-boum-enters-nba-draft-and-ncaa-transfer-portal-pierre-moving-to-wichita-state/

[Masterofreality]

With the deadline now passed that means that Free and The Jerome Hunter Experience will return

[Xuperman]

Nope. He announced weeks ago.

https://www.ktsm.com/sports/college-sports/utep/uteps-souley-boum-enters-nba-draft-and-ncaa-transfer-portal-pierre-moving-to-wichita-state/

Naturally, I was referring to this evenings announcement that Xavier is his choice for NCAA basketball.

[SemajParlor]

Love the pick up of Boum. Looks like he can really shoot the ball and provide us with another ball handler who can score.

[xukeith]

Love the pick up of Boum. Looks like he can really shoot the ball and provide us with another ball handler who can score.

He sure does have some funk in that shot. Or is it best described by a hitch or a gittie up flare?

Can't argue with his numbers. IS he THE best pg that leads X to dominate?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

This stat kinda stands out.

Boum is a VOLUME shooter AND he doesn't like to come out of the game. He was the Miners feature player....nearly 37 minutes per game.

Boum- 438 FGA last year.
Scruggs was our leader with 319 attempts.

On a side note, he was teammates with Keonte Kennedy.

The last couple of years we have wanted a "go to" player when we needed a bucket. Boum looks like that guy. But we need someone who can score and create opportunities for the other four players. Is Boum that guy? I guess we'll see. Wonder what this means for the other scholarship? Will we still be looking for a P.G.? I'm guessing probably not because we've now have, in addition to Boum, Kunkel, Tandy, Coby, Desmond and the rapper's son, all in the backcourt. We look deep---again. Last year we looked deep and by the end of the season we were playing an eight man rotation. Somehow Miller has to keep all the guys happy and that is going to be tough. Still I'm certain he will do a far better job of it than Steele.

[drudy23]

I don't think he's concerned with "keeping guys happy" - he's already gone on record saying he likes to play 8, maybe 9.

The nature of the beast.

Sean's not going to try to be their friend - he's trying to get to the Final Four.

[XU-PA]

Naturally, I was referring to this evenings announcement that Xavier is his choice for NCAA basketball.

My bad, sorry.

[XUGRAD80]

The last couple of years we have wanted a "go to" player when we needed a bucket. Boum looks like that guy. But we need someone who can score and create opportunities for the other four players. Is Boum that guy? I guess we'll see. Wonder what this means for the other scholarship? Will we still be looking for a P.G.? I'm guessing probably not because we've now have, in addition to Boum, Kunkel, Tandy, Coby, Desmond and the rapper's son, all in the backcourt. We look deep---again. Last year we looked deep and by the end of the season we were playing an eight man rotation. Somehow Miller has to keep all the guys happy and that is going to be tough. Still I'm certain he will do a far better job of it than Steele.

Odom played plenty and he still transfers. There are over 1600 players in the portal this year. Many of them were team leaders in minutes played and were league all-stars. I’m not saying that coaches shouldn’t be worried about players being unhappy. I’m just saying that players can be getting everything that we think would make them happy….championships, playing time, accolades, awards, etc…..and will still end up leaving for greener pastures. Miller needs to worry about what will win games, not just what keeps players happy. If that means playing 8 players and not 11-12, so be it.

[Xville]

I am extremely impressed right off the bat with the way that miller was able to keep almost the entire roster together sans Odom who followed his guy. Finally there is a bit of continuity in the roster and another year of these guys all playing together can only be a positive for the next season.

Damn I love me some Miller

[webxu]

With the deadline now passed that means that Free and The Jerome Hunter Experience will return

I may be in the minority here, but I like what Hunter brings with his ballhandling and athleticism. Just dont let him shoot 3s ! Hopefully Miller can transform him.

[bleedXblue]

You go out an get the best players you can........some guys worrying about PT for other guys crack me up

[bleedXblue]

I may be in the minority here, but I like what Hunter brings with his ballhandling and athleticism. Just dont let him shoot 3s ! Hopefully Miller can transform him.

Hunter isnt a lost cause. He can fill a role on the team for sure.

[xavierj]

I may be in the minority here, but I like what Hunter brings with his ballhandling and athleticism. Just dont let him shoot 3s ! Hopefully Miller can transform him.

Jerome Hunter is a much better shooter than he showed under Travis. Since everyone who played for Travis has pretty much shot worse than capable, I am going to chalk that up to the system. If hunter is open, I am okay if he takes some threes and shows that he can make some. New season, new system. Expect improvement across the board. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that teams coached by Sean Miller, including his Xavier teams, shot threes at a high %, and Travis Steele coached teams have not. Sean’s teams have usually been upper 30’s and near 40% from three with the exception of like one year when he had a team under 35%.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Odom played plenty and he still transfers. There are over 1600 players in the portal this year. Many of them were team leaders in minutes played and were league all-stars. I’m not saying that coaches shouldn’t be worried about players being unhappy. I’m just saying that players can be getting everything that we think would make them happy….championships, playing time, accolades, awards, etc…..and will still end up leaving for greener pastures. Miller needs to worry about what will win games, not just what keeps players happy. If that means playing 8 players and not 11-12, so be it.

Not to mention, as fans, we always feel the team is deeper than it is (at least before the season starts).

We had plenty of guys this past season that we thought would be in the rotation at the beginning of the year, who just weren't good enough to warrant regular minutes. Happens every year.

[xukeith]

Not to mention, as fans, we always feel the team is deeper than it is (at least before the season starts).

We had plenty of guys this past season that we thought would be in the rotation at the beginning of the year, who just weren't good enough to warrant regular minutes. Happens every year.

We want the optimum playing time for wins. 7-8 man rotation is ideal.

[Blue Blooded-05]

If it was 1996, I would say this pickup is “The Boum”

But it’s not 1996, so I won’t say it

[muskiefan82]

How does he pronounce the last name? I am hoping it is BOOM. Every three made should provide a rousing BOOM! from the Cintas crowd.

[Xuperman]

We want the optimum playing time for wins. 7-8 man rotation is ideal.

Really, there are only 4 surefire rotation guys.... probably starters. Nunge, ZFree, Jones and Kunkel. If Boum ends up here, that makes 5. The rest could end up in some hardcore competition for minutes going into the OOC schedule and competition always ends up answering a lot of questions.

Hunter is going to need to bring his A game and be focused mentally. If he does he will be a key piece and his experience weighs heavy....that makes 6. Now Tandy is in for the biggest fight IMO. IF Craft comes in as billed and gets traction early, it gets interesting. Not to mention if Claude can avoid the "deer in the headlight" syndrome. Edwards looked really good late, so my money is on him to be 7.

As usual, plenty of "ifs" with injury being the biggest "if" of all.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah, I mean I think it is fairly safe to assume about 8 guys will get the bulk of the mins, or be in the rotation regularly.

5 seem like a lock:

Boum
Kunkel
Jones
Free
Nunge

That leaves:

Hunter
Craft
Claude
KyKy
Edwards
Tucker
Miles

4 of those 7 bench guys aren't going to see much, if any, time in the meat of the season. Either Miles or Edwards is going to have to get minutes down low. So that really leaves 2 spots between Hunter, Kyky, Claude, Craft, Tucker. I think Tucker is probably not going to see mins.

This is assuming we are done grabbing players from the portal as well.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Odom played plenty and he still transfers. There are over 1600 players in the portal this year. Many of them were team leaders in minutes played and were league all-stars. I’m not saying that coaches shouldn’t be worried about players being unhappy. I’m just saying that players can be getting everything that we think would make them happy….championships, playing time, accolades, awards, etc…..and will still end up leaving for greener pastures. Miller needs to worry about what will win games, not just what keeps players happy. If that means playing 8 players and not 11-12, so be it.

Yeah. Agree. My point was more along the lines that last year many of us thought we were so deep, there was debate about how best to use everybody. Does having so many bodies allow us play a full court press, etc. You'll recall that discussion. But, as it turned out, even though we thought we had issues playing so many, we ended up with an eight man rotation. My specific interest is we really don't know what we have until we see the individuals on the court and if we don't see them play, we never know their capabilities. I am interested in seeing how Hunter and Miles shake out under Miller. Tandy, too, I guess.

Clearly, the transfer portal makes it hard to build a bench and assume the guys sitting will stick around the next year. I'm of the opinion that re-loading every year, if that ends up how the portal works, will make it tough to build a championship culture. But, with NIL, who knows how it all will shake out.

[muskiefan82]

I think the team WAS deep last year, but it wasn't properly developed. I think playing a different way, with rotations that make sense, will allow more players to get minutes and develop so X is fresher later and more difficult to game plan against.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think the team WAS deep last year, but it wasn't properly developed. I think playing a different way, with rotations that make sense, will allow more players to get minutes and develop so X is fresher later and more difficult to game plan against.

Miller is already on record saying he doesnt prefer the rotation to be much bigger than we have been used to seeing.

I think 8 is the sweet spot. There will be guys that, we as fans, think are going to contribute next year, that won't ever see the floor.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Miller's teams at X:

04-05: 8-9 deep
05-06: 9 deep
06-07: 8-9 deep
07-08: 8 deep
08-09: 9 deep

Not sure about his teams at Arizona. So I think we can say 8 comfortably and if the roster/players warrant it, going as far as a 9 man rotation.

[UCGRAD4X]

If it was 1996, I would say this pickup is “The Boum”

But it’s not 1996, so I won’t say it

And don't think for a second we don't appreciate you not saying it.

[noteggs]

How does he pronounce the last name? I am hoping it is BOOM. Every three made should provide a rousing BOOM! from the Cintas crowd.

Yes it’s pronounced “boom”, so not a bad idea. First is the challenge because it’s Sue lay.