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XUGRAD80
04-08-2022, 05:08 PM
Is Steele permitted to contact his former players to get them interested in transferring to Miami(OH)?

If they have entered the transfer portal, yes. Otherwise he would have to have someone contact them for him, can’t do it directly on his part or as a representative of Miami. But, I don’t think that there is anything stopping a player from contacting him.

MHettel
04-08-2022, 07:00 PM
If they have entered the transfer portal, yes. Otherwise he would have to have someone contact them for him, can’t do it directly on his part or as a representative of Miami. But, I don’t think that there is anything stopping a player from contacting him.

I think there is definitely something that would prohibit Steele talking to anyone unless they entered the portal. Even if the player was the one who reached out. I think it's essentially the college version of "tampering"

Masterofreality
04-08-2022, 07:20 PM
Jerome Hunter would be an absolute stud in MACtion.

muskiefan82
04-08-2022, 07:41 PM
Jerome Hunter would be an absolute stud in MACtion.

But he's already transferred once so not likely

xukeith
04-08-2022, 08:14 PM
But he's already transferred once so not likely

Jason Carter had a decent last season at Ohio U. so his Maction was solid.

XUGRAD80
04-08-2022, 09:10 PM
I think there is definitely something that would prohibit Steele talking to anyone unless they entered the portal. Even if the player was the one who reached out. I think it's essentially the college version of "tampering"

You can’t think it doesn’t happen though. Seen to many cases where a kid announces a transfer a day after they enter the portal.

Lloyd Braun
04-09-2022, 09:36 PM
Is there a section on Xavier Pinson discussion? If not there should be as things are getting serious. I will defer to the Mizzou (Xville et al) and LSU peeps for more info.

SemajParlor
04-09-2022, 09:43 PM
https://twitter.com/TiptonEdits/status/1512966146810691587?s=20&t=MxmYsbaCd_BxbbNiUcG2vg

Interesting development. Down to us and Miss St. Interesting because I don't think Miss St was on his original list. Taking that as a good sign for X.

Xville
04-09-2022, 10:06 PM
Is there a section on Xavier Pinson discussion? If not there should be as things are getting serious. I will defer to the Mizzou (Xville et al) and LSU peeps for more info.

Not a fan. He’s super quick and athletic.. not a good shooter and has a horrible basketball iq. Maybe miller can rein him in.

IM4X
04-09-2022, 11:04 PM
https://twitter.com/TiptonEdits/status/1512966146810691587?s=20&t=MxmYsbaCd_BxbbNiUcG2vg

Interesting development. Down to us and Miss St. Interesting because I don't think Miss St was on his original list. Taking that as a good sign for X.


Thanks for posting the link.

He’s got the name. He’s got the skills. He’s got the love for X… and Miler wants him. I hope we show him we’d love to see Xavier at Xavier.

xavierj
04-09-2022, 11:37 PM
Not a fan. He’s super quick and athletic.. not a good shooter and has a horrible basketball iq. Maybe miller can rein him in.

Have never seen him play. Heard he was hurt last year. Has had some monster games over the years. 40% from three as a freshman, 34% two years ago on 5 threes a game. Over 80% from the line over 4 years. Has gone for 26 against KY, 28 against Auburn, 27 against Tennessee, 32 against ole Miss and 36 against TCU. Might be ok.

XU_Lou
04-10-2022, 12:01 AM
Xavier Pinson seems to be a bit of a head scratcher. Have never seen him play that I'm aware of, but his stats are not all that impressive. Shooting % has dropped every year since his freshman year (36.5% in his 4th year). His assist to T/O is just average. Does Miller want him as a back-up?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/xavier-pinson-1.html

xuphan
04-10-2022, 07:19 AM
Xavier Pinson seems to be a bit of a head scratcher. Have never seen him play that I'm aware of, but his stats are not all that impressive. Shooting % has dropped every year since his freshman year (36.5% in his 4th year). His assist to T/O is just average. Does Miller want him as a back-up?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/xavier-pinson-1.html

Pinson would be the starting point guard with Claude as his backup.

UCGRAD4X
04-10-2022, 08:10 AM
Pinson would be the starting point guard with Claude as his backup.

On the strength of his experience alone, this would make sense.

JTG
04-10-2022, 08:29 AM
If Miller thinks Pinson is the answer at point, that's good enough for me.

Xville
04-10-2022, 08:30 AM
Have never seen him play. Heard he was hurt last year. Has had some monster games over the years. 40% from three as a freshman, 34% two years ago on 5 threes a game. Over 80% from the line over 4 years. Has gone for 26 against KY, 28 against Auburn, 27 against Tennessee, 32 against ole Miss and 36 against TCU. Might be ok.


As lloyd alluded to, the team I grew up with was Mizzou and so they are the other team I follow. I really don’t understand why miller is interested in him for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but maybe he thinks he can take the good with the bad. Pinson will win you games, and he will lose you games. Very quick, very athletic, can’t shoot ( the 40 as a freshman is the outlier) and makes a lot of boneheaded decisions that are going to piss us off if he comes here.

bjf123
04-10-2022, 08:46 AM
Thanks for posting the link.

He’s got the name. He’s got the skills. He’s got the love for X… and Miler wants him. I hope we show him we’d love to see Xavier at Xavier.

But does he pronounce his name correctly, [emoji16] Zavyur or Exavyur?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UCGRAD4X
04-10-2022, 09:01 AM
But does he pronounce his name correctly, [emoji16] Zavyur or Exavyur?

Crucial!

xavierj
04-10-2022, 10:08 AM
As lloyd alluded to, the team I grew up with was Mizzou and so they are the other team I follow. I really don’t understand why miller is interested in him for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but maybe he thinks he can take the good with the bad. Pinson will win you games, and he will lose you games. Very quick, very athletic, can’t shoot ( the 40 as a freshman is the outlier) and makes a lot of boneheaded decisions that are going to piss us off if he comes here.

Makes sense. Seems super athletic. Team desperately needs that.

xukeith
04-10-2022, 10:20 AM
Makes sense. Seems super athletic. Team desperately needs that.

He had a solid passing year in 2022.
Not the best 3 point shooter but he seems to be athletic and he has solid delivery of passes.

IM4X
04-10-2022, 11:23 AM
Have never seen him play. Heard he was hurt last year. Has had some monster games over the years. 40% from three as a freshman, 34% two years ago on 5 threes a game. Over 80% from the line over 4 years. Has gone for 26 against KY, 28 against Auburn, 27 against Tennessee, 32 against ole Miss and 36 against TCU. Might be ok.

Impressive numbers against those really good teams. Seems a little odd that he scores that many against those teams and only average 10 a game, though. Must mean he averages 6 points per game against weaker competition.

IM4X
04-10-2022, 11:42 AM
Xavier Pinson seems to be a bit of a head scratcher. Have never seen him play that I'm aware of, but his stats are not all that impressive. Shooting % has dropped every year since his freshman year (36.5% in his 4th year). His assist to T/O is just average. Does Miller want him as a back-up?

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/xavier-pinson-1.html

Wonder why his FG% is so low? Does he miss a lot of midrange jumpers and layups? Maybe Xville knows.

GIMMFD
04-10-2022, 12:08 PM
As lloyd alluded to, the team I grew up with was Mizzou and so they are the other team I follow. I really don’t understand why miller is interested in him for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but maybe he thinks he can take the good with the bad. Pinson will win you games, and he will lose you games. Very quick, very athletic, can’t shoot ( the 40 as a freshman is the outlier) and makes a lot of boneheaded decisions that are going to piss us off if he comes here.

I remember watching some of Pinson at Mizzou and at LSU this year and even though he's had monster games, I wasn't very impressed either. Thought he was a ticking time bomb at times, glad I'm not the only one who didn't think that. I'm with you on thinking about keeping options open, but hey, if Miller wants him, I'm cool with it. That's why he's making the big bucks and I'm an armchair analyst.

MHettel
04-10-2022, 12:28 PM
Pins on took 3.5 threes a game and made just under 1. It was 26% I think.

His 2 pt shooting was about 47% if I recall. He didn’t get to the line often.

Inefficient offensively in my view. And takes a fair amount of attempts.

I guess miller knows what options he has, and if this is his primary one, then so be it

sirthought
04-10-2022, 01:24 PM
XP could be another Jordan Crawford landing in our laps. He did a lot of boneheaded things, but over the season was forced into making better choices...and won games!

He pronounces it X-avier, not Zavier.

Masterofreality
04-10-2022, 01:29 PM
Time to meld the X’s!!!

JTG
04-10-2022, 01:41 PM
XP

He pronounces it X-avier, not Zavier.

That might be a deal breaker.

muskiefan82
04-10-2022, 03:16 PM
He pronounces it X-avier, not Zavier.

Not cool with the pronunciation, but he would be the first player with his first and last names on his jersey.

xukeith
04-10-2022, 03:46 PM
XP could be another Jordan Crawford landing in our laps. He did a lot of boneheaded things, but over the season was forced into making better choices...and won games!

He pronounces it X-avier, not Zavier.

He is good but not "Crawford" good. Check out his less than 0.300 3 point shooting

D-West & PO-Z
04-10-2022, 06:47 PM
XP could be another Jordan Crawford landing in our laps. He did a lot of boneheaded things, but over the season was forced into making better choices...and won games!

He pronounces it X-avier, not Zavier.

Pinson (for what we call him) it is then if he comes here.

JTG
04-10-2022, 06:53 PM
Miss St picked up another point, so Pinson is probably ours.

XUGRAD80
04-10-2022, 08:27 PM
Miss St picked up another point, so Pinson is probably ours.

Just saw a tweet that confirms Pinson to X……but since I don’t know who the person tweeting it is, I won’t say it’s 100% correct.

Xville
04-10-2022, 08:47 PM
I’m not a fan of his, but in miller I trust. I’m confident that Sean knows more about the game than me (wasn’t that confident with previous tinman) so if he wants him, then maybe he believes he can rein him in, and if not, well, it’s just a year.

JTG
04-10-2022, 08:49 PM
That Markus guy who tweeted is a clown. He's just some internet goof who throws stuff at the wall hoping something occasionally sticks.

xukeith
04-10-2022, 08:51 PM
I’m not a fan of his, but in miller I trust. I’m confident that Sean knows way more than me about the game than me (wasn’t that confident with previous tinman) so if he wants him, then maybe he believes he can rein him in, and if not, well, it’s just a year.

Who do we hope can make greater than 33-37% from three next year? Craft, Tandy, Kunkel, Claude, and whoever is the transfer pg?

Xville
04-10-2022, 08:56 PM
Who do we hope can make threes next year? Craft, Tandy, Kunkel, Claude, and whoever is the transfer pg?

Tandy is the best shooter on the team next year of the players we have seen play at x so I’ll say him. However, I think Colby is a better shooter next year and freshmen might really surprise.

D-West & PO-Z
04-10-2022, 09:00 PM
That Markus guy who tweeted is a clown. He's just some internet goof who throws stuff at the wall hoping something occasionally sticks.

The account is a parody.

xuphan
04-10-2022, 09:10 PM
Tandy is the best shooter on the team next year of the players we have seen play at x so I’ll say him. However, I think Colby is a better shooter next year and freshmen might really surprise.

Craft is the best shooter on the team next year. Will be interesting to see if he can play good enough defense at this level to get early playing time.

Xville
04-10-2022, 09:16 PM
Craft is the best shooter on the team next year. Will be interesting to see if he can play good enough defense at this level to get early playing time.

We’ll see. Shooting in high school and shooting in high div 1 basketball are completely different things.

Hope you are right because we could use a guy who will shoot above 35-36 percent from 3 which is what Tandy did his first two years.

XU-PA
04-10-2022, 09:19 PM
We’ll see. Shooting in high school and shooting in high div 1 basketball are completely different things.

No truer words ever spoken, and not understood by do many people.

XUGRAD80
04-10-2022, 09:30 PM
No truer words ever spoken, and not understood by do many people.

Basically because the level of everyday defense at the college level is MUCH HIGHER than what players may EVER experience oh the HS or AAU level.

Masterofreality
04-10-2022, 10:04 PM
That Markus guy who tweeted is a clown. He's just some internet goof who throws stuff at the wall hoping something occasionally sticks.

He’s a Xavier guy parody account of a fake sportswriter who is hilarious. Never take anything he says other than as comedy.

xuphan
04-10-2022, 10:11 PM
We’ll see. Shooting in high school and shooting in high div 1 basketball are completely different things.

Hope you are right because we could use a guy who will shoot above 35-36 percent from 3 which is what Tandy did his first two years.

If you are talking about pure shooting, Craft is still the best shooter on the team. Just like Brad Redford was the best shooter on the team when he played here. Now if you are talking scoring, that’s a different ballgame.

GIMMFD
04-10-2022, 10:23 PM
If you are talking about pure shooting, Craft is still the best shooter on the team. Just like Brad Redford was the best shooter on the team when he played here. Now if you are talking scoring, that’s a different ballgame.

I think that's tough to say without seeing him in action against D-1 defenders, he has good size at 6-5/6-6, but like mentioned before people are more athletic, longer, tougher, and faster at the college level, obviously you can guess with mechanics and what not, I just don't like counting things before they occur. I hope you're right, like ville said, we need someone that's a consistently good deep threat. I'd be elated with 35-36%.

Xville
04-11-2022, 08:41 AM
If you are talking about pure shooting, Craft is still the best shooter on the team. Just like Brad Redford was the best shooter on the team when he played here. Now if you are talking scoring, that’s a different ballgame.

Kyky has proven he can shoot against Big East Competition; Craft has not at this point, that's what I was talking about. I understand where you are coming from with Redford, but he had trouble even getting his shot off against A-10 competition at times.

All we were told is how great of a shooter Kunkel was, and against BE competition, he has been very average and has pretty crappy form. So, ill believe it when i see it with any of these recruits.

Just to bring some stats to this...when KyKy had real playing time as a freshman, against BE comp he was 28 of 76 from 3

thats a 37% clip.

The following year, before getting his minutes suddenly slashed because of Kunkel's eligbility he was 12 of 29....good for 41 percent.

Then, his minutes get slashed because of some bs about his defense...because the rest of the team must have been defensive gurus according to tinman.

I don't know what happened but something happened between kyky and steele. Nothing else makes any sense...either that or Steele knows less about basketball than i even thought

drudy23
04-11-2022, 11:17 AM
Kyky has proven he can shoot against Big East Competition; Craft has not at this point, that's what I was talking about. I understand where you are coming from with Redford, but he had trouble even getting his shot off against A-10 competition at times.

All we were told is how great of a shooter Kunkel was, and against BE competition, he has been very average and has pretty crappy form. So, ill believe it when i see it with any of these recruits.

Just to bring some stats to this...when KyKy had real playing time as a freshman, against BE comp he was 28 of 76 from 3

thats a 37% clip.

The following year, before getting his minutes suddenly slashed because of Kunkel's eligbility he was 12 of 29....good for 41 percent.

Then, his minutes get slashed because of some bs about his defense...because the rest of the team must have been defensive gurus according to tinman.

I don't know what happened but something happened between kyky and steele. Nothing else makes any sense...either that or Steele knows less about basketball than i even thought

Yes. All of this.

Big East Freshman team - straight to the bench after that. Made no sense.

drudy23
04-11-2022, 11:20 AM
If you put these guys in a gym by themselves, Brad Redford is the best shooter ever to play at Xavier.

Problem is, during games, guys guard you. And it was very tough for Brad to get a shot against bigger, more athletic and stronger guys. When he was open, it was in. But once the word was out, he was rarely open.

You don't know until you know.

MHettel
04-11-2022, 11:33 AM
If you put these guys in a gym by themselves, Brad Redford is the best shooter ever to play at Xavier.

Problem is, during games, guys guard you. And it was very tough for Brad to get a shot against bigger, more athletic and stronger guys. When he was open, it was in. But once the word was out, he was rarely open.

You don't know until you know.

Agreed with Redford. But the fact that an opponent wont leave him when he's on the court can actually be used to your advantage. If you recall, there were a lot of late game situations where we were behind and Redford would just come in and stand in the corner. He wasnt gonna get the ball. But his man stood within 3 feet of him. That opens up alot of options when you have a ballhandler like Tu who can get to the rim and get fouled and a defense that has limited ability to rotate or help.

Masterofreality
04-11-2022, 11:53 AM
Agreed with Redford. But the fact that an opponent wont leave him when he's on the court can actually be used to your advantage. If you recall, there were a lot of late game situations where we were behind and Redford would just come in and stand in the corner. He wasnt gonna get the ball. But his man stood within 3 feet of him. That opens up alot of options when you have a ballhandler like Tu who can get to the rim and get fouled and a defense that has limited ability to rotate or help.

Correct as usual Hett

drudy23
04-11-2022, 12:14 PM
Agreed with Redford. But the fact that an opponent wont leave him when he's on the court can actually be used to your advantage. If you recall, there were a lot of late game situations where we were behind and Redford would just come in and stand in the corner. He wasnt gonna get the ball. But his man stood within 3 feet of him. That opens up alot of options when you have a ballhandler like Tu who can get to the rim and get fouled and a defense that has limited ability to rotate or help.

Absolutely - the offense can always counter what the defense throws at them. IF they adjust.

bleedXblue
04-11-2022, 12:31 PM
Kyky has proven he can shoot against Big East Competition; Craft has not at this point, that's what I was talking about. I understand where you are coming from with Redford, but he had trouble even getting his shot off against A-10 competition at times.

All we were told is how great of a shooter Kunkel was, and against BE competition, he has been very average and has pretty crappy form. So, ill believe it when i see it with any of these recruits.

Just to bring some stats to this...when KyKy had real playing time as a freshman, against BE comp he was 28 of 76 from 3

thats a 37% clip.

The following year, before getting his minutes suddenly slashed because of Kunkel's eligbility he was 12 of 29....good for 41 percent.

Then, his minutes get slashed because of some bs about his defense...because the rest of the team must have been defensive gurus according to tinman.

I don't know what happened but something happened between kyky and steele. Nothing else makes any sense...either that or Steele knows less about basketball than i even thought

KyKy needs to work on his ball handling and ability to beat guys off the dribble. To me the athleticism and ability to shoot are there.

drudy23
04-11-2022, 12:42 PM
KyKy needs to work on his ball handling and ability to beat guys off the dribble. To me the athleticism and ability to shoot are there.

He's the most explosive guy on the team - I guarantee you he can beat guys off the dribble. His decision making after that and ability to finish is more of the problem. He was never really put in a position to create off the dribble, but his lateral quickness and upward explosiveness are off the charts.

bleedXblue
04-11-2022, 12:44 PM
Kyky has proven he can shoot against Big East Competition; Craft has not at this point, that's what I was talking about. I understand where you are coming from with Redford, but he had trouble even getting his shot off against A-10 competition at times.

All we were told is how great of a shooter Kunkel was, and against BE competition, he has been very average and has pretty crappy form. So, ill believe it when i see it with any of these recruits.

Just to bring some stats to this...when KyKy had real playing time as a freshman, against BE comp he was 28 of 76 from 3

thats a 37% clip.

The following year, before getting his minutes suddenly slashed because of Kunkel's eligbility he was 12 of 29....good for 41 percent.

Then, his minutes get slashed because of some bs about his defense...because the rest of the team must have been defensive gurus according to tinman.

I don't know what happened but something happened between kyky and steele. Nothing else makes any sense...either that or Steele knows less about basketball than i even thought

KyKy needs to work on his ball handling and ability to beat guys off the dribble. To me the athleticism and ability to shoot are there.

MHettel
04-11-2022, 06:56 PM
Kendric Davis from SMU just entered. Eye popping stats. #1 transfer available.

I HATE the timing on this stuff. Pinson seemed to have narrowed between Miss State and XU. Miss State just picked up someone else.

I hope we take a shot at Davis, and try to stay involved until Pack makes a decision. Pinson is a clear #3 among that group...

xavierj
04-11-2022, 07:10 PM
Kendric Davis from SMU just entered. Eye popping stats. #1 transfer available.

I HATE the timing on this stuff. Pinson seemed to have narrowed between Miss State and XU. Miss State just picked up someone else.

I hope we take a shot at Davis, and try to stay involved until Pack makes a decision. Pinson is a clear #3 among that group...

I thought Pack was down to three schools and Xavier was not included. Would imagine Davis will be going to Texas or Texas tech and if not it will be someone like Kansas or KY.

XU-PA
04-11-2022, 07:32 PM
Both Davis and Pack have also declared for the NBA draft. While they both could back out of the draft, doesn't that muddy things up for a coach at a school they express interest in?

MauriceX
04-12-2022, 12:03 PM
Agreed with Redford. But the fact that an opponent wont leave him when he's on the court can actually be used to your advantage. If you recall, there were a lot of late game situations where we were behind and Redford would just come in and stand in the corner. He wasnt gonna get the ball. But his man stood within 3 feet of him. That opens up alot of options when you have a ballhandler like Tu who can get to the rim and get fouled and a defense that has limited ability to rotate or help.

I'd have to go back to find the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure Redford had the best box +/- stats on the entire team for one of his seasons. Even when he wasn't scoring, he was impacting the game.

MHettel
04-12-2022, 12:43 PM
I'd have to go back to find the exact numbers, but I'm pretty sure Redford had the best box +/- stats on the entire team for one of his seasons. Even when he wasn't scoring, he was impacting the game.

Redford had a limited role, but it was specific. He was a guy that was on the floor when you were behind and needed to get some points to catch up. He was a defensive liability, but if you are already losing, whats the harm?

If we had a lead, and were trying to protect it, he'd likely have been on the bench.

Just the very usage of him put him into situations where he could finish with an impressive +/- for the season.

He was used correctly throughout his career, and was a key part of 4 very good teams.

X Factor
04-12-2022, 04:29 PM
Redford had a limited role, but it was specific. He was a guy that was on the floor when you were behind and needed to get some points to catch up. He was a defensive liability, but if you are already losing, whats the harm?

If we had a lead, and were trying to protect it, he'd likely have been on the bench.

Just the very usage of him put him into situations where he could finish with an impressive +/- for the season.

He was used correctly throughout his career, and was a key part of 4 very good teams.

This is not accurate. Redford averaged 23 minutes a game as a senior, averaged 8 points, and shot about 45% from three.

GoMuskies
04-12-2022, 04:31 PM
I thought Redford was actually holding his own on the defensive side of the ball until he tore up his knee. I think his career would have been significantly different but for that injury.

X Factor
04-12-2022, 04:42 PM
I thought Redford was actually holding his own on the defensive side of the ball until he tore up his knee. I think his career would have been significantly different but for that injury.

Agree. He struggled his junior year, but he was coming off a torn ACL. He made 195 threes in his career while in a limited role three out of his four years. He had a pretty big role as a senior.

Didn't he have a game saving block in one game? It was awesome. Forget who it was against though.

xukeith
04-12-2022, 04:46 PM
Agree. He struggled his junior year, but he was coming off a torn ACL. He made 195 threes in his career while in a limited role three out of his four years. He had a pretty big role as a senior.

Didn't he have a game saving block in one game? It was awesome. Forget who it was against though.

I don't remember a Redford block.

Kyle Castlin I recall had a block

GoMuskies
04-12-2022, 04:51 PM
Redford had 5 career blocks in 4 seasons.

X Factor
04-12-2022, 04:55 PM
Had Redford been 6'2 or 6'3 he would've been an all-time X great. Just watching these highlights, it was ridiculous how fast he could get his shot off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGUDP_o9FA

drudy23
04-12-2022, 05:13 PM
Had Redford been 6'2 or 6'3 he would've been an all-time X great. Just watching these highlights, it was ridiculous how fast he could get his shot off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGUDP_o9FA

I just watched the video and I don't recall Redford making that many contested shots. Was that every point he ever scored at X in that video lol?

Best shooter I've ever seen. I remember watching him never miss in warm-ups.

xudash
04-12-2022, 05:46 PM
I just watched the video and I don't recall Redford making that many contested shots. Was that every point he ever scored at X in that video lol?

Best shooter I've ever seen. I remember watching him never miss in warm-ups.

Holy crap! Bring him back!! He pump fakes better than Nova players.

The half-court shot was a hoot, but I'm not sure about the chicken mascot thingy.

posaune
04-12-2022, 05:48 PM
Had Redford been 6'2 or 6'3 he would've been an all-time X great. Just watching these highlights, it was ridiculous how fast he could get his shot off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGUDP_o9FA

Watching that 3 go in against Wofford just made me mad all over again, because I know what Jeff Robinson did next.

SemajParlor
04-12-2022, 05:52 PM
Redford is up there with the best 3 point shooter I ever saw at the collegiate level. Pretty amazingly skilled at that aspect of the game.

SemajParlor
04-12-2022, 05:57 PM
Had Redford been 6'2 or 6'3 he would've been an all-time X great. Just watching these highlights, it was ridiculous how fast he could get his shot off.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oGUDP_o9FA

It feels weird seeing someone in an X uniform hit contested 3's. It's been roughly 4 years to be exact.

MHettel
04-12-2022, 06:22 PM
This is not accurate. Redford averaged 23 minutes a game as a senior, averaged 8 points, and shot about 45% from three.

How is it not accurate? In his first 3 years, Redford played 96 games and averaged 13.0 minutes. He overlapped with BJ Raymond , Dante , Tu, Crawford, Lyons, Wells, Dee Davis and Justin Martin during those 3 years. There was not a single year where Redford averaged more minutes than ANY of these guys when they played together. In his third year, he played almost the exact same number of minutes per game as Freshmen Davis and Martin.

His Senior year, he played the 7th most amount of minutes on a team with a 7 man rotation. The team was not very good, and was NOT deep. Semaj and Dee started in the backcourt. Justin Martin, Travis Taylor and Jeff Robinson started up front. Philmore and Redford were the only other scholarship players that got regular minutes. Erik Stenger was #8 on the depth chart and averaged less than 9 minutes a game. He was a walk on.

Redford was forced into an expanded role out of necessity, not because it made sense to give him more minutes. Had Lyons stayed, we would have seen another year where Redford was getting 12 or so minutes a game.

drudy23
04-12-2022, 07:03 PM
Not to mention, he made 3 out of 4 in dress clothes from half court as the in-game announcer.

IM4X
04-12-2022, 07:30 PM
Holy crap! Bring him back!! He pump fakes better than Nova players.

The half-court shot was a hoot, but I'm not sure about the chicken mascot thingy.

I am a huge fan of Redford - he was cool enough to come over and talk to me and my X alum buddies during practices when we went back to X for the now infamous crosstown brawl. Great guy! Mad skills from 3 - maybe the best ever at X.

At times in games (if you remember), he could struggle to get open against quick defenders and stay with them on defense. Happy he came to X, but I can’t help but think he would likely have been a starter at a lower tier school with smaller slightly slower players - maybe even an all conference player. His ability to score in HS (much like Tre and JP’s) was just ridiculous. He averaged close to 40 points a game and had multiple games with more than 50 points.

X Factor
04-12-2022, 07:41 PM
Redford had a limited role, but it was specific. He was a guy that was on the floor when you were behind and needed to get some points to catch up. He was a defensive liability, but if you are already losing, whats the harm?

If we had a lead, and were trying to protect it, he'd likely have been on the bench.

You said he was a guy that was in the game when X was losing and was on the bench when X was trying to protect a lead. That is not true, even though he had a pretty limited role his first three years (his junior year he was coming off an ACL injury which affected his play).

He was a prolific three point shooter. In 4 years, in limited playing time, he made 195 threes. Career 43% from three. He was just a little too short to be a major impact player.

xukeith
04-12-2022, 08:13 PM
I just watched the video and I don't recall Redford making that many contested shots. Was that every point he ever scored at X in that video lol?

Best shooter I've ever seen. I remember watching him never miss in warm-ups.

I think I read that Miller and Mack visited him in MI and watched him successfully make 95 consecutive threes.

paulxu
04-12-2022, 08:41 PM
We have Redford de-rail a thread about every 6 months, generally filled with slams about his game
Refreshing to see him get some props. Probably because we were so bad at 3's last year.
And in a transfer portal thread....maybe he can sneak back in.

MHettel
04-12-2022, 08:52 PM
You said he was a guy that was in the game when X was losing and was on the bench when X was trying to protect a lead. That is not true, even though he had a pretty limited role his first three years (his junior year he was coming off an ACL injury which affected his play).

He was a prolific three point shooter. In 4 years, in limited playing time, he made 195 threes. Career 43% from three. He was just a little too short to be a major impact player.

I still dont see where you have provided any supportable evidence that my description of how Redford was used is wrong. he played limited rotation minutes since he was a freshman, and then his usage would increase or decrease based on the circumstances. The circumstances where he would see more time is when we were battling from behind. If protecting a lead, his offense wasnt as needed and his defense could be an issue so he tended to be on the sidelines. I'm sticking to that.

If you believe there is some other explanation for how he was used, by all means offer it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxc09r04pJI

Xavier
04-12-2022, 10:59 PM
We have Redford de-rail a thread about every 6 months, generally filled with slams about his game
Refreshing to see him get some props. Probably because we were so bad at 3's last year.
And in a transfer portal thread....maybe he can sneak back in.

Wanted to come in and say some negative things but what’s the point. He is a good guy, always friendly, loves X. Absolutely money when shooting in open gyms.

Xuperman
04-13-2022, 11:34 AM
Dontaie Allen to Western Kentucky.

muskiefan82
04-13-2022, 12:28 PM
Dontaie Allen to Western Kentucky.

Huh....head scratcher

XU-PA
04-13-2022, 12:41 PM
Dontaie Allen to Western Kentucky.

Mr Kentucky basketball
Big freshman (redshirt) year after sitting out with an ACL he injured in high school.
Not such a great sophomore year, only in about half the games.

GoMuskies
04-13-2022, 01:05 PM
Huh....head scratcher

I'm not sure why you think that given where the kid is from WKU is a good program, and Stansbury has recruited some very good players there.

muskiefan82
04-13-2022, 01:24 PM
Less of a comment on WKU (which is solid) and more of an "I thought he would end up at a High-major somewhere" comment.

XUGRAD80
04-13-2022, 02:40 PM
Less of a comment on WKU (which is solid) and more of an "I thought he would end up at a High-major somewhere" comment.

My wife grew up in the same county as him, we lived in the county for 12 years, were married and still attend church in the county, and know many people that know him and his family very well. Some of them are related to him. In other words I trust my sources on this as well as is possible, they are mostly friends and neighbors. My sources tell me that since his knee injury he has lost a step in quickness and has a hard time trusting it any longer. He is healthy physically but lacks the quickness now that is needed to play at the elite level. By all accounts he is a great student and an even better young man, but is no longer a major college player or pro prospect like he was.

muskiefan82
04-13-2022, 03:51 PM
Well, that sucks, but I am happy he will still get to play decent level basketball and get a quality education!

BigMoeMusketeer
04-14-2022, 07:16 AM
My wife grew up in the same county as him, we lived in the county for 12 years, were married and still attend church in the county, and know many people that know him and his family very well. Some of them are related to him. In other words I trust my sources on this as well as is possible, they are mostly friends and neighbors. My sources tell me that since his knee injury he has lost a step in quickness and has a hard time trusting it any longer. He is healthy physically but lacks the quickness now that is needed to play at the elite level. By all accounts he is a great student and an even better young man, but is no longer a major college player or pro prospect like he was.

He has very little motor, doesn't even try and defend anyone, and is more focused on selling his own Merch (T-shirts) than off-season work. He is going where he is going because enough people in college basketball circles know this.

Lloyd Braun
04-14-2022, 06:01 PM
Ben Stanley enters the portal

xudash
04-14-2022, 06:07 PM
Ben Stanley enters the portal

Best of luck to you young man.

XUGRAD80
04-14-2022, 06:16 PM
Not a surprise, but really wish it would have worked out better for him. Tough luck for sure.

xu82
04-14-2022, 06:51 PM
Ben Stanley enters the portal

I wish him nothing but the best, whatever that may be.

MHettel
04-14-2022, 08:39 PM
Yeah, good luck Ben. I had high hopes for you, but you hit a stretch of bad luck and then frankly a coach that didnt seem to realize what he had at his disposal.

Go destroy a mid-major conference and lets meet at the dance next year.

Lloyd Braun
04-14-2022, 09:10 PM
Best of luck to you young man.

Thanks but I’m not much of a young man anymore.

Lloyd Braun
04-14-2022, 09:12 PM
Yeah, good luck Ben. I had high hopes for you, but you hit a stretch of bad luck and then frankly a coach that didnt seem to realize what he had at his disposal.

Go destroy a mid-major conference and lets meet at the dance next year.

Yea I think he should be able to help someone. A bit of a tweener in college should dominate a mid major conference with his strength and skill.

xudash
04-14-2022, 09:54 PM
Thanks but I’m not much of a young man anymore.

Ha! Well done.

whopper
04-14-2022, 11:18 PM
I feel bad as i remember him contributing 2 games last year(SH Creighton) where he has 12 pts and could easily have split time with Carter and had a running start this year. His injury was incidental off the ball contact Not a world beater but I saw some decent skills and attitude. Hope he ends up where he can shine. Damn

SkyWalker
04-15-2022, 10:25 AM
I agree that he can be a solid player in a mid-major conference, but prolly not Miami. Best of luck!

GoMuskies
04-15-2022, 10:29 AM
Tough crowd. He may be from a smaller lower tier program than X, but let’s not forget he was also one of the better players on an elite eight team. I’m telling you the kid can play. I wouldn’t expect him to be handed a starting position like this kid (see link) who Sean is trying to land, but he would a good contribute off of the bench.

https://www.collegebasketballtransfers.com/post/duke-reaches-out-to-arguably-the-top-guard-in-the-transfer-portal

On a separate note… I could see Miller telling Odom he would love to have him stay at X, but he just wanted to be fair to him by telling Dwon that he is offering some of the best PGs (like Pack) in the portal because he wants X to be stacked at every position… with the 13 best players he can find.

Edert is transferring to Bryant.

muskiefan82
04-15-2022, 11:12 AM
Spencer Cody is in the transfer portal. That is all. Not sure what to do with that.

MHettel
04-15-2022, 11:12 AM
Edert is transferring to Bryant.

is that an upgrade?

Xville
04-15-2022, 11:19 AM
Pipedream but man

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33738438/detroit-mercy-antoine-davis-no-22-scorer-college-basketball-history-enter-transfer-portal?platform=amp

GoMuskies
04-15-2022, 11:25 AM
Pipedream but man

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33738438/detroit-mercy-antoine-davis-no-22-scorer-college-basketball-history-enter-transfer-portal?platform=amp

Not sure he'd be a great fit. We probably want to share the ball a bit more than he's going to be interested in.

GoMuskies
04-15-2022, 11:28 AM
is that an upgrade?

It definitely would have been BEFORE the Elite Eight run last year. Bryant is trying to be serious about sports SPU is not.

Xville
04-15-2022, 11:31 AM
Not sure he'd be a great fit. We probably want to share the ball a bit more than he's going to be interested in.

My assumption with him is that he has been there, done that and realizes that to move up a level he is going to have to accept a bit of a different role. I’ll take him over someone like pinson. Of course I’m making quite a bit of assumptions based on nothing lol. Other than, I have seen pinson and I don’t want him

GoMuskies
04-15-2022, 11:35 AM
He did shoot pretty well from 3 (around 38% 3 of his 4 years). We could use that. If he's looking for a role with a substantially lower usage rate, he would be interesting for sure.

Davis took 657 shots for UDM last year. Paul Scruggs was our top shooter. He took 319 shots.

Sorry, he took 657 as a freshman and ONLY 555 last year. I was reading his stats upside down.

Jordan Crawford took 563 shots in his one season at Xavier. That's six more games played (Crawford played 35 to Davis's 29 last year).

Xavgrad08
04-15-2022, 12:23 PM
Antoine Davis dad Mike Davis is the current coach of the team he is transferring from. That has to be an awkward transfer conversation. “Dad I love you, but need to play for someone else so I can maybe get to the tournament. See you at dinner”.

paulxu
04-15-2022, 12:52 PM
Wonder why someone with those numbers isn't testing the pro waters.

whopper
04-15-2022, 01:14 PM
i remember him playing against us in 2018 as freshman..not a great shooting game but still that was 4years ago..
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083369

funny to see keonte kennedy, james, harden and schrand in the box. Marshall and tyrique were benched for a bad attitude and see how welage and hankins stepped right up. Hankins was great and funny how every time welage started (IUPUI, Auburn(ncaa final), Miami, Oakland, Depaul, St Johns) he put up mid teens or better yet we claimedd to have no shooting. I thought he was misused. This free covid year is really screwing up my sense of time

MHettel
04-15-2022, 02:14 PM
i remember him playing against us in 2018 as freshman..not a great shooting game but still that was 4years ago..
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore/_/gameId/401083369

funny to see keonte kennedy, james, harden and schrand in the box. Marshall and tyrique were benched for a bad attitude and see how welage and hankins stepped right up. Hankins was great and funny how every time welage started (IUPUI, Auburn(ncaa final), Miami, Oakland, Depaul, St Johns) he put up mid teens or better yet we claimedd to have no shooting. I thought he was misused. This free covid year is really screwing up my sense of time

Welage was ONLY a shooter. He was a good one. He took the 2nd most 3PT attempts per minute of anyone we've had in decades. But he didnt score any other way, didnt rebound, didnt defend, could ballhandle......you get the point.

MHettel
04-15-2022, 02:15 PM
Pipedream but man

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33738438/detroit-mercy-antoine-davis-no-22-scorer-college-basketball-history-enter-transfer-portal?platform=amp

I dont know if this is the article, but I read something crazy.

David has been in the top 5 in scoring each of his 4 years. He'll play a fifth year, and if he finishes in the top 5, he will be SECOND all time in NCAA scoring.

Behind Pete Maravich that set the record in THREE years.

insane

94GRAD
04-15-2022, 02:26 PM
I dont know if this is the article, but I read something crazy.

David has been in the top 5 in scoring each of his 4 years. He'll play a fifth year, and if he finishes in the top 5, he will be SECOND all time in NCAA scoring.

Behind Pete Maravich that set the record in THREE years.

insane

And in only 83 games

xavierj
04-15-2022, 02:56 PM
Pipedream but man

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33738438/detroit-mercy-antoine-davis-no-22-scorer-college-basketball-history-enter-transfer-portal?platform=amp

I wouldn’t take him. Don’t many bigger programs Will. He shoots way too much and makes Kyky look like a + defender.

whopper
04-15-2022, 03:08 PM
Welage was ONLY a shooter. He was a good one. He took the 2nd most 3PT attempts per minute of anyone we've had in decades. But he didnt score any other way, didnt rebound, didnt defend, could ballhandle......you get the point. i know all those things are true..but i kept the St Johns beat down senior day on DVR until recently and got 4 reb(chase down), had 4 assists, they kept going to his man(Justin Simon) and it was not fruitfulin 23 minutes had 19 pts. I just kind of liked the chemistry of him, Hankins, Castlin who really knew how to play together Maybe the purist in me compaired to hero ball that year and man we needed shooing and spacing. Oh well on to next year..he is in nateriopathic med school and seems like a bright guy as does castlin(follow on twitter)

Xville
04-15-2022, 03:40 PM
I wouldn’t take him. Don’t many bigger programs Will. He shoots way too much and makes Kyky look like a + defender.

we shall see. I'm sure the high majors will have a discussion with him about his role and what they want out of him. I think high major programs are going to want a veteran guard that is an above average 3 point shooter and an almost 90 percent FT shooter.

D-West & PO-Z
04-15-2022, 04:50 PM
I wouldn’t take him. Don’t many bigger programs Will. He shoots way too much and makes Kyky look like a + defender.

Well apparently he has drawn interest from these teams among others:

Kansas
UK
Memphis
Auburn
Maryland
Bama
Purdue
OSU
LSU
Georgetown
UC
Minnesota

xu82
04-15-2022, 05:10 PM
Well apparently he has drawn interest from these teams among others:

Kansas
UK
Memphis
Auburn
Maryland
Bama
Purdue
OSU
LSU
Georgetown
UC
Minnesota

Don’t let a little program like Kansas sway you. What do they know? Dayton and UC aren’t even on that list!

xukeith
04-15-2022, 05:16 PM
I remember Mike Davis brought DM to Cintas and X stomped them but I do not remember him lighting X up.
Found it.

He had 19 points and went 3-13 from 3. One assist and 4 rebounds he had in 2019 as a frosh.

247 had him as the 313th best prospect (65th in shooting guards)

Xville
04-15-2022, 07:16 PM
Well apparently he has drawn interest from these teams among others:

Kansas
UK
Memphis
Auburn
Maryland
Bama
Purdue
OSU
LSU
Georgetown
UC
Minnesota

Odd how some people come up with opinions that are completely absurd

xavierj
04-15-2022, 08:53 PM
Well apparently he has drawn interest from these teams among others:

Kansas
UK
Memphis
Auburn
Maryland
Bama
Purdue
OSU
LSU
Georgetown
UC
Minnesota

We will see. If he ends up at a high major his stats will be average. Playing in the horizon vs The SEC, Big East or Big 12 is a huge step up. He wonÂ’t be chucking up 20 shots a game and if he canÂ’t guard guys from NKU, not sure how he would guard guys in a major conference. I have seen him live a few times. Just my opinion that I donÂ’t think his game will translate to a high major.

Backyard Champ
04-15-2022, 11:26 PM
I think people place too much value on the schools that reach out to a transfer. I’d suspect most of them check in to see what the player is looking for. Starter minutes/would be okay in different role than previous school type of thing.

XUGRAD80
04-16-2022, 06:58 AM
I’m beginning to suspect that we shouldn’t expect X to make a big splash anytime soon in regards to landing transfers. Based on the number of 2023 offers that X has made in the last week or so I suspect that right now Sean is concentrating on that area of recruiting, and is trying to develop relationships with HS players and coaches. That could very well mean that he is confident that at least a couple of more of the current roster will be returning. I can’t remember if he always filled out the 13 scholarships when he was here last, or did that at Arizona. Anyone know? Could be that he feels that a 10-11 deep roster will be enough?

X-man
04-16-2022, 07:41 AM
I’m beginning to suspect that we shouldn’t expect X to make a big splash anytime soon in regards to landing transfers. Based on the number of 2023 offers that X has made in the last week or so I suspect that right now Sean is concentrating on that area of recruiting, and is trying to develop relationships with HS players and coaches. That could very well mean that he is confident that at least a couple of more of the current roster will be returning. I can’t remember if he always filled out the 13 scholarships when he was here last, or did that at Arizona. Anyone know? Could be that he feels that a 10-11 deep roster will be enough?

If Free stays and Ward comes, the roster looks pretty deep and talented without adding from the portal.

Xville
04-16-2022, 07:54 AM
If Free stays and Ward comes, the roster looks pretty deep and talented without adding from the portal.

I’d like a power 4 and a veteran pg. I’d be pretty shocked if the roster doesn’t include a veteran pg next season. Unless Claude is that good and miller just wants to roll with him and take the good with the freshman mistakes. I’m also good with easing off the portal and developing “homegrown” talent… something that definitely was missing with the previous staff

In miller I trust.

xukeith
04-16-2022, 08:26 AM
I’d like a power 4 and a veteran pg. I’d be pretty shocked if the roster doesn’t include a veteran pg next season. Unless Claude is that good and miller just wants to roll with him and take the good with the freshman mistakes. I’m also good with easing off the portal and developing “homegrown” talent… something that definitely was missing with the previous staff

In miller I trust.

He certainly is taking his time.
I cannot believe he wants to put all the eggs in one basket and having Claude run the point.
If he keeps waiting perhaps he will look into JUCO point guards.
Heck have Jones run the point.

Olsingledigit
04-16-2022, 08:29 AM
He certainly is taking his time.
I cannot believe he wants to put all the eggs in one basket and having Claude run the point.
If he keeps waiting perhaps he will look into JUCO point guards.
Heck have Jones run the point.

Bingo! I think he very well might have Jones run the point.

xuphan
04-16-2022, 08:43 AM
Bingo! I think he very well might have Jones run the point.

We will pick up someone from the portal to run the point. Need experience in that position and Claude does not have that.

Xuperman
04-16-2022, 08:48 AM
If Free stays and Ward comes, the roster looks pretty deep and talented without adding from the portal.

So, there are 8 guys on the current roster that are "known commodities", along with 3 freshman (Tucker RS). Even if Ward is out of the picture and nothing is added from the portal, Coach Miller has 5 former starters at his disposal.

Could Kunk, Jones, Hunter, Free, Nunge with Tandy, Miles and Edwards off the bench win 10 conference games? Probably with the Miller factor......especially if Craft and/or Claude can make a splash OOC and everybody stays HEALTHY. Unfortunately that is not likely and even if they did, there would continue to be issues from a physicality stand point.

I agree with 'ville. To realistically challenge for one of the top 5 BE spots, the portal is necessary. If Coach likes Pinson, great but we certainly don't address any physical shortcomings with him. Really need a hammer at the 4. Someone that excels in defending and rebounding....don't see anyone like that on our radar but hey, even a D2 All American could get it done.

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever
04-16-2022, 09:26 AM
So, there are 8 guys on the current roster that are "known commodities", along with 3 freshman (Tucker RS). Even if Ward is out of the picture and nothing is added from the portal, Coach Miller has 5 former starters at his disposal.

Could Kunk, Jones, Hunter, Free, Nunge with Tandy, Miles and Edwards off the bench win 10 conference games? Probably with the Miller factor......especially if Craft and/or Claude can make a splash OOC and everybody stays HEALTHY. Unfortunately that is not likely and even if they did, there would continue to be issues from a physicality stand point.

I agree with 'ville. To realistically challenge for one of the top 5 BE spots, the portal is necessary. If Coach likes Pinson, great but we certainly don't address any physical shortcomings with him. Really need a hammer at the 4. Someone that excels in defending and rebounding....don't see anyone like that on our radar but hey, even a D2 All American could get it done.

Well, we've got Free (I assume---could turn out wrong), Nunge, Edwards (another assumption), Miles, Tucker, Hunter up front; Jones, Tandy, Kunkel, Craft, Claude in backcourt. I don't think Ward is coming. I read he has completely re-opened recruitment and will reduce his offers to a half dozen of interest by month end. I guess he could still come but those actions don't suggest serious interest in X.

I suppose we could use a "banger" at the "4" but it doesn't seem like we are in dire need (given my assumptions about Free + Edwards) unless Tucker cannot play and then we have an injury. As far as a veteran P.G., didn't Marquette + Butler run with freshmen at that position last year? I recall both of them played pretty well didn't they?

If a veteran P.G. is only clear missing link, perhaps this is it. Maybe we have our team.

xavierj
04-16-2022, 09:48 AM
Just a guess but Xavier just got two new assistants that are well connected. Wouldn’t be surprised if they may be waiting on someone they know to hit the portal. I think a PG and a long wing/forward might be what they want. I would keep an eye on Omari Moore from San Jose St. 6’6” wing who declared for the draft but will most likely withdraw and wouldn’t be surprised if he hits the portal. Athletic and shot 43% from three last year but also can get to the rim and passes well.

X-man
04-16-2022, 09:58 AM
Well, we've got Free (I assume---could turn out wrong), Nunge, Edwards (another assumption), Miles, Tucker, Hunter up front; Jones, Tandy, Kunkel, Craft, Claude in backcourt. I don't think Ward is coming. I read he has completely re-opened recruitment and will reduce his offers to a half dozen of interest by month end. I guess he could still come but those actions don't suggest serious interest in X.

I suppose we could use a "banger" at the "4" but it doesn't seem like we are in dire need (given my assumptions about Free + Edwards) unless Tucker cannot play and then we have an injury. As far as a veteran P.G., didn't Marquette + Butler run with freshmen at that position last year? I recall both of them played pretty well didn't they?

If a veteran P.G. is only clear missing link, perhaps this is it. Maybe we have our team.

Ward said that his "final six" will be revealed next week.

paulxu
04-16-2022, 11:23 AM
Ward said that his "final six" will be revealed next week.

I grow tired of this glorified stuff. Weird. No doubt I'm old.

Also, we're talking about wings and pg's. What happened to our need for a banger type forward?

bjf123
04-16-2022, 12:13 PM
I grow tired of this glorified stuff. Weird. No doubt I'm old.


You’re not alone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MHettel
04-16-2022, 03:03 PM
I gotta admit I was hoping for a little more roster turnover.

It's not that I have any ONE or TWO particular players that I dont want (well, I wont name them at least), but I've already seen these guys play together and it just didnt work.

I took Steele to the mat for a couple YEARS before his exit. The Goodin and Marshall teams were just dysfunctional, and for whatever reason the "Scruggs as PG" experiment didnt work.

Last years team was NOT good. I can envision an overall upgrade just by replacing Steele with Miller. And I of course saw the team play better WITHOUT Scruggs (no offense Paul. Actually, I should add a comma. no offense, Paul).

But we lost 2 of 3 of our only reliable shooters (Scruggs and Johnson) and our heir apparent at the PG position.

Are we counting on Freshmen (that Steele recruited) to come in and make an impact?

Are we assuming the returners are just going to be must better next year. Im 0-4 taking that approach recently.

I think we need at least TWO bona fide guys from the portal that will play key roles in a 7-8 man rotation (Miller said he prefers 7).

Not enough shake up so far in my mind.

xu82
04-16-2022, 03:23 PM
I agree we have some needs, but I have to keep thinking back to the NIT tournament coverage and the announcer (I forget who it was) repeatedly saying we were as talented as any team in the BE. He stopped short of saying Steele effed it all up, but the point was clear. I’m obviously excited to see what Sean can get out of largely the same group. Heck, look what Jonas did turning it around during the tournament. They looked like we had new guys on the floor.

I very optimistic!

xukeith
04-16-2022, 03:49 PM
I agree with MHettel .

I will name names.
The players returning are not likely going to be big contributors other than Nunge, Kunkle, Freemantle and Jones.

In a best case scenario, Miles, Tandy, Edwards, and Tucker won't combine to score more than 20 points and 11 rebounds. Maybe there will be an exception but those 4 players have not lit any scoreboards yet.

Next year's success is 100% depending on the grad pg at least averaging 10 points and 3 assists per game . Shooting 3's at a rate of 30% or higher would be nice.

It might get ugly trying to squeeze talent out of the sluggish performers next season.

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever
04-16-2022, 04:28 PM
I gotta admit I was hoping for a little more roster turnover.

It's not that I have any ONE or TWO particular players that I dont want (well, I wont name them at least), but I've already seen these guys play together and it just didnt work.

I took Steele to the mat for a couple YEARS before his exit. The Goodin and Marshall teams were just dysfunctional, and for whatever reason the "Scruggs as PG" experiment didnt work.

Last years team was NOT good. I can envision an overall upgrade just by replacing Steele with Miller. And I of course saw the team play better WITHOUT Scruggs (no offense Paul. Actually, I should add a comma. no offense, Paul).

But we lost 2 of 3 of our only reliable shooters (Scruggs and Johnson) and our heir apparent at the PG position.

Are we counting on Freshmen (that Steele recruited) to come in and make an impact?

Are we assuming the returners are just going to be must better next year. Im 0-4 taking that approach recently.

I think we need at least TWO bona fide guys from the portal that will play key roles in a 7-8 man rotation (Miller said he prefers 7).

Not enough shake up so far in my mind.


Had to laugh at the 0-4 record in taking an optimistic approach the last few years. Me too!

Understand your view and you make some good points. Perhaps there is another player (or two) to yet arrive. I've seen both Butler and Providence added some transfers and I imagine other teams will follow suit. I don't accept, entirely, the Fran Fraschilla comments during the NIT about X having the most talent in the B.E. I don't think we did. But, we were competitive and should have finished much better than we did. So, could we improve? Yes we could. There is room for improvement.

But, it isn't outlandish to think we will be better next year if nobody arrives. We saw a different team after Steele was pulled and though admittedly the NIT run was just a few games, to me, it felt different. The players had an obvious desire to win and an expectation to win that didn't exist under Steele. Our expectations as fans were better too. It isn't crazy to think that will continue under Miller. Apparently the players believe in him. It is dicey, yes, to assume freshman will be strong contributors but don't forget Steele showed an amazing talent for ruining young players.

The only position that concerns me is P.G. I think we're obviously serviceable everywhere else. And, its possible we can go with Claude (assuming some help---maybe the preferred walk-on). I just expect to see a completely different attitude. I hope I'm not naive.

xavierj
04-16-2022, 05:08 PM
I gotta admit I was hoping for a little more roster turnover.

It's not that I have any ONE or TWO particular players that I dont want (well, I wont name them at least), but I've already seen these guys play together and it just didnt work.

I took Steele to the mat for a couple YEARS before his exit. The Goodin and Marshall teams were just dysfunctional, and for whatever reason the "Scruggs as PG" experiment didnt work.

Last years team was NOT good. I can envision an overall upgrade just by replacing Steele with Miller. And I of course saw the team play better WITHOUT Scruggs (no offense Paul. Actually, I should add a comma. no offense, Paul).

But we lost 2 of 3 of our only reliable shooters (Scruggs and Johnson) and our heir apparent at the PG position.

Are we counting on Freshmen (that Steele recruited) to come in and make an impact?

Are we assuming the returners are just going to be must better next year. Im 0-4 taking that approach recently.

I think we need at least TWO bona fide guys from the portal that will play key roles in a 7-8 man rotation (Miller said he prefers 7).

Not enough shake up so far in my mind.

The roster was fine. Paul probably hurt the progression a little but it’s fine. If it wasn’t there would have been more turnover. Sean isn’t dumb. One thing you can expect is significantly higher percentages from three. Take a look at Sean’s teams at Arizona and Xavier and look at how well they shot the three. That’s because of his system. It isn’t a coincidence that Xavier blew shooting threes under Travis. I could see one year but not 4 straight. That was Travis system. Xavier was also 15-1 against teams not in the Big East last year. I believe Sean can take the guys returning and will develop them and they will win games.

xuphan
04-16-2022, 06:19 PM
I gotta admit I was hoping for a little more roster turnover.

It's not that I have any ONE or TWO particular players that I dont want (well, I wont name them at least), but I've already seen these guys play together and it just didnt work.

I took Steele to the mat for a couple YEARS before his exit. The Goodin and Marshall teams were just dysfunctional, and for whatever reason the "Scruggs as PG" experiment didnt work.

Last years team was NOT good. I can envision an overall upgrade just by replacing Steele with Miller. And I of course saw the team play better WITHOUT Scruggs (no offense Paul. Actually, I should add a comma. no offense, Paul).

But we lost 2 of 3 of our only reliable shooters (Scruggs and Johnson) and our heir apparent at the PG position.

Are we counting on Freshmen (that Steele recruited) to come in and make an impact?

Are we assuming the returners are just going to be must better next year. Im 0-4 taking that approach recently.

I think we need at least TWO bona fide guys from the portal that will play key roles in a 7-8 man rotation (Miller said he prefers 7).

Not enough shake up so far in my mind.

We need an impact pg who can come in and start right away. My money is on Xavier Pinson to transfer in. Will be interesting to see if we get Ward and/or go after another transfer.

GIMMFD
04-16-2022, 08:35 PM
Emoni Bates in the portal, gotta think he goes to Michigan State for a year right?

xukeith
04-16-2022, 09:52 PM
Emoni Bates in the portal, gotta think he goes to Michigan State for a year right?

Rumors on Twitter say X is trying to land Pinson and Rudi Williams. Williams is more of a scorer. He did play one year at Kansas St. I think at Coastal Carolina he shot 47% from 3.

Xavier
04-16-2022, 10:00 PM
Rumors on Twitter say X is trying to land Pinson and Rudi Williams. Williams is more of a scorer. He did play one year at Kansas St. I think at Coastal Carolina he shot 47% from 3.

Yep. If I had to bet they would land both of them/ but Williams was followed by staff and he has been liking a bunch of X posts. (Colby and Nunge return announcements). 6’2 SG- who really uses his body in the paint. At least looking at his highlights he does a lot of turnaround fade type shots in the paint (reminded me of Scruggs in that regard) and pull up jumpers. 114 3s last year shooting 47%.

I’ve seen Sean want to have two PG type players on the court at all times- he fits the mold as SG that can handle and pass well. I think I also saw he had 3 years left. I like his potential but it is tough to get too much info from a highlight real. Especially at Coastal.

xukeith
04-16-2022, 11:38 PM
Yep. If I had to bet they would land both of them/ but Williams was followed by staff and he has been liking a bunch of X posts. (Colby and Nunge return announcements). 6’2 SG- who really uses his body in the paint. At least looking at his highlights he does a lot of turnaround fade type shots in the paint (reminded me of Scruggs in that regard) and pull up jumpers. 114 3s last year shooting 47%.

I’ve seen Sean want to have two PG type players on the court at all times- he fits the mold as SG that can handle and pass well. I think I also saw he had 3 years left. I like his potential but it is tough to get too much info from a highlight real. Especially at Coastal.

It makes sense. If you’re adding guards, hope they can score and drive and pass. Check. Check. Check.

xukeith
04-17-2022, 09:55 PM
If a student wants to transfer and look at different campuses and shop around, do athletic depts have a budget to fly them to and from plus pay their lodging/meals? I forgot the different recruiting rules.

UCGRAD4X
04-18-2022, 08:16 AM
It makes sense. If you’re adding guards, hope they can score and drive and pass. Check. Check. Check.

Playing a little defense would not be a bad thing either.

bleedXblue
04-18-2022, 10:36 AM
Playing a little defense would not be a bad thing either.

sort if like that its taking us some time to ink a new transfer.....felt like in years past that we signed too quickly and the end result was a 50% chance of success

Xville
04-18-2022, 02:24 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4432957/yuri-collins

just put his name in the portal...true point

drudy23
04-18-2022, 02:43 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4432957/yuri-collins

just put his name in the portal...true point

This is EXACTLY the type of player this team needs. Runs the show and gets others opportunities first, but is a capable scorer and shooter (both from the perimeter and the line) at the same time.

xukeith
04-18-2022, 02:53 PM
This is EXACTLY the type of player this team needs. Runs the show and gets others opportunities first, but is a capable scorer and shooter (both from the perimeter and the line) at the same time.

He excels at passing. Not horrible on offense. Can those bigger, athletic BE guards mess up his head?

He and Rudi Williams would be a great duo

xukeith
04-18-2022, 03:05 PM
He is 1st team A10 and on A10 all defensive team

Xavgrad08
04-18-2022, 03:17 PM
He and Rudi Williams would be a great duo[/QUOTE]

Williams just trimmed his list to 8. The schools are Xavier, UConn, Butler, Cal, San Diego State, Wichita St, George Mason and Yale.

GIMMFD
04-18-2022, 03:26 PM
This is EXACTLY the type of player this team needs. Runs the show and gets others opportunities first, but is a capable scorer and shooter (both from the perimeter and the line) at the same time.

I didn't watch much of SLU this year, anybody watch the Bilikens that can give a quick run down on his game, mainly defensive side? I love the idea of a true point that can shoot, but looks to run the offense however.

Xville
04-18-2022, 03:33 PM
I didn't watch much of SLU this year, anybody watch the Bilikens that can give a quick run down on his game, mainly defensive side? I love the idea of a true point that can shoot, but looks to run the offense however.

D west is a slu fan also i believe so hopefully he can give us some inside intel :)

D-West & PO-Z
04-18-2022, 03:45 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4432957/yuri-collins

just put his name in the portal...true point

Wow, this a huge loss for SLU. Yuri Collins is a heck of a PG.

True PG type who is a good defender as well. 1st team All A-10 and All defense as well. Shoots the ball pretty well and vastly improved his FT% this year as well.

Would love Xavier to land him.

D-West & PO-Z
04-18-2022, 03:59 PM
I didn't watch much of SLU this year, anybody watch the Bilikens that can give a quick run down on his game, mainly defensive side? I love the idea of a true point that can shoot, but looks to run the offense however.


D west is a slu fan also i believe so hopefully he can give us some inside intel :)

Pretty much been a day 1 starter at SLU. Good defender. Always hard to tell how it will translate up a couple notches in leagues.

Against Auburn he had 13 points, 12 boards, 8 assists, and 3 steals. Had 6 turnovers too tho. Turned it over too much this year though, a little under a 2-1 ratio. Really picked up his scoring this year. SLU lost their best player and by far best scorer right before the season started this year, so really had to.

SLU did have some solid outside shooters, that I am sure helped his assist totals, but he is a great passer and definitely a pass first PG.

I don't watch SLU religiously like I do X, but enough to know I would love getting Collins. Of all the guys I have heard are most likely for us, I would take him before any of them.

D-West & PO-Z
04-18-2022, 04:39 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33761822/iowa-state-cyclones-point-guard-tyrese-hunter-enters-transfer-portal-standout-freshman-season

Another PG in the portal

xu82
04-18-2022, 04:56 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33761822/iowa-state-cyclones-point-guard-tyrese-hunter-enters-transfer-portal-standout-freshman-season

Another PG in the portal

I’m all for player freedom, but this is getting like pick up games at your local YMCA trying to keep up with the roster!

Sounds like a very talented possibility!

drudy23
04-18-2022, 05:07 PM
Do you have to enter the portal if you know where you're going to transfer?

xukeith
04-18-2022, 05:47 PM
Do you have to enter the portal if you know where you're going to transfer?

Would Miller (Sean) know through the grapevine any future players that will enter the transfer portal? I mean some of these new pgs in the portal seem like they just ring a bell and d1 schools then call.

Who knew more pgs won't enter the portal?

This is getting like a poker game and some people need to hold their hands closer to the vest. Others are all in.

xavierj
04-18-2022, 08:08 PM
Would Miller (Sean) know through the grapevine any future players that will enter the transfer portal? I mean some of these new pgs in the portal seem like they just ring a bell and d1 schools then call.

Who knew more pgs won't enter the portal?

This is getting like a poker game and some people need to hold their hands closer to the vest. Others are all in.

Players have to enter before the end of the month if they want to play next year.

xavierj
04-18-2022, 08:10 PM
Do you have to enter the portal if you know where you're going to transfer?

Yes they do. A lot of these guys are getting recruited while not in the portal and know where they are going before entering. I think the kid from Iowa State, who entered today, will land shortly at North Carolina. I am about positive he knew where he was going before entering. In football, Kiner entered this morning and announced for UC about 6 hours later. He knew where he was going, but had to enter portal first.

Xville
04-18-2022, 09:04 PM
Yes they do. A lot of these guys are getting recruited while not in the portal and know where they are going before entering. I think the kid from Iowa State, who entered today, will land shortly at North Carolina. I am about positive he knew where he was going before entering. In football, Kiner entered this morning and announced for UC about 6 hours later. He knew where he was going, but had to enter portal first.

Why would he go to unc when rj Davis (the starting pg) is back and love will probably be back too?

xuphan
04-18-2022, 09:20 PM
Are we still recruiting Tyrell Ward? Things seem to have gone quiet with him since he reopened his recruitment.

xavierj
04-18-2022, 09:23 PM
Why would he go to unc when rj Davis (the starting pg) is back and love will probably be back too?

Just my guess. Saw something over the weekend about him and North Carolina. Either way I am sure he knows where he is going and would be shocked if it was not a big time program. He was set at Iowa State and would be the guy in a big time conference coming off a sweet 16. I think he is leaving for one of two reasons, he is either going home, Wisconsin or Marquette or he will end up at Duke, Kentucky or North Carolina or some program like that.

This is what I was referring to… and two days later he is in the portal.

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2022/04/16/tyrese-hunter-north-carolina-rumors-not-true/

paulxu
04-18-2022, 10:12 PM
Pippin, Jr. skips portal and goes for NBA. Was a smooth player last year, and fun to beat in the tourney.

D-West & PO-Z
04-18-2022, 10:49 PM
Heard from a buddy that Yuri Collins is leaning towards Tennessee. No idea if accurate or not.

bobbiemcgee
04-19-2022, 01:12 PM
Heard from a buddy that Yuri Collins is leaning towards Tennessee. No idea if accurate or not.

This guy seems to think so:

https://twitter.com/Andrew__Slater/status/1516125909169885194

94GRAD
04-19-2022, 01:12 PM
Are we still recruiting Tyrell Ward? Things seem to have gone quiet with him since he reopened his recruitment.

Just like Paul McMillan, they are no longer recruiting him.

Masterofreality
04-19-2022, 02:54 PM
Ima gonna trust Sean and his staff that they cast a much wider net and will catch some Big Fish that are better.
No worries

muskiefan82
04-19-2022, 02:57 PM
Are we still recruiting Tyrell Ward? Things seem to have gone quiet with him since he reopened his recruitment.

If you were willing to come here under Steele, but aren't willing with Sean Miller at the helm, then I am not sure you are Xavier material....Just sayin'

xu82
04-19-2022, 03:08 PM
Ima gonna trust Sean and his staff that they cast a much wider net and will catch some Big Fish that are better.
No worries

100% agree with this. ^^^^^^^^

UCGRAD4X
04-19-2022, 03:11 PM
If you were willing to come here under Steele, but aren't willing with Sean Miller at the helm, then I am not sure you are Xavier material....Just sayin'

This too

GIMMFD
04-19-2022, 03:30 PM
Yes they do. A lot of these guys are getting recruited while not in the portal and know where they are going before entering. I think the kid from Iowa State, who entered today, will land shortly at North Carolina. I am about positive he knew where he was going before entering. In football, Kiner entered this morning and announced for UC about 6 hours later. He knew where he was going, but had to enter portal first.

Isn't that technically tampering?? Obviously scummy programs will continue to do it, but it is a slight annoyance. I heard the Tyrese Hunter and UNC rumors too, interestingly enough Terrance Shannon Jr from Texas Tech was a huge UNC fan growing up, and was ready to commit on the spot but they were waiting for RJ Davis to announce if he's coming back or not. I think they only have one scholarship, so I think that might mean Davis Jr. may be gone.

xudash
04-19-2022, 05:32 PM
Ima gonna trust Sean and his staff that they cast a much wider net and will catch some Big Fish that are better.
No worries

+1

xucub
04-19-2022, 06:38 PM
Ima gonna trust Sean and his staff that they cast a much wider net and will catch some Big Fish that are better.
No worries

In the 30 for 30 episode about the recruiting class that saved Coach K's job, he talks about not casting a wide net, but focusing time and effort on the 25 - 30 players that Duke really wanted. Perhaps a wise approach.

bobbiemcgee
04-19-2022, 06:54 PM
Decision Friday:

https://twitter.com/150__KD/status/1514381987502510081/photo/1

xavierj
04-19-2022, 07:24 PM
Decision Friday:

https://twitter.com/150__KD/status/1514381987502510081/photo/1

I think he is just announcing his final 7

Xville
04-19-2022, 07:26 PM
Already announced his final 7… x isn’t in the mix.

xuphan
04-19-2022, 09:05 PM
Already announced his final 7… x isn’t in the mix.

So we are interested in a D2 guard who shot 27% from 3 last year and Emoni Bates from Memphis. This transfer portal stuff is for the birds.

paulxu
04-19-2022, 09:40 PM
All that "my last 7 " nonsense is just beyond me.
Meanwhile, the guy who left from St Louis is reported to have a 200k NIL deal waiting for him.

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever
04-19-2022, 10:05 PM
All that "my last 7 " nonsense is just beyond me.
Meanwhile, the guy who left from St Louis is reported to have a 200k NIL deal waiting for him.

I thought it a good idea that players be able to transfer between institutions with fewer restrictions. I also supported the ability of players to receive financial benefit from their name and likeness. Now that we have both, the point where the transfer portal and NIL intersect is leaving me queasy. It is already transforming college football and, in my mind, not in a good way. Assuming it starts to transform college basketball in the same manner, I fear the product will be irreparably damaged. This is, at its core, free agency with a focus on financial interests (not education) and college sports will not be the same. It will be very hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Many of us, I think, will rue the day we allowed this to happen.

D-West & PO-Z
04-19-2022, 10:24 PM
I thought it a good idea that players be able to transfer between institutions with fewer restrictions. I also supported the ability of players to receive financial benefit from their name and likeness. Now that we have both, the point where the transfer portal and NIL intersect is leaving me queasy. It is already transforming college football and, in my mind, not in a good way. Assuming it starts to transform college basketball in the same manner, I fear the product will be irreparably damaged. This is, at its core, free agency with a focus on financial interests (not education) and college sports will not be the same. It will be very hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Many of us, I think, will rue the day we allowed this to happen.

The genie was already out of the bottle my friend. This is not much different than before. Major college sports has not been about education in decades. And nothing makes me uneasy about college players getting to make money of their own fame. What makes me sick is the whining that coaches, who make millions, do about how much harder their job is. Anyone who falls for that baloney......

Xuperman
04-20-2022, 07:58 AM
Keonte Kennedy transferring again.

Xville
04-20-2022, 08:15 AM
Keonte Kennedy transferring again.

Looks like he finally found his footing last year---good for him!

Maybe he moves back up a level---he's got some good size for the 2 spot.

Xuperman
04-20-2022, 08:37 AM
Meanwhile, the guy who left from St Louis is reported to have a 200k NIL deal waiting for him.


This is, at its core, free agency with a focus on financial interests (not education) and college sports will not be the same.

What if this becomes common going forward?

"Local car dealership millionaire and Duke alumn offers player 200K in NIL to transfer to the Blue Devils."

Same thing could happen with top HS talent. It definitely IS free agency if a bidding war occurs for player services. I expect most of this NIL money will be through spokesperson advertising. Now here's the thing.....wouldn't that create some pissed off teammates?

I'm thinking if locker room issues begin to emerge, most coaches will probably say "No thanks"? There will be some trial and error, but eventually it will take care of itself.

Xville
04-20-2022, 08:42 AM
What if this becomes common going forward?

"Local car dealership millionaire and Duke alumn offers player 200K in NIL to transfer to the Blue Devils."

Same thing could happen with top HS talent. It definitely IS free agency if a bidding war occurs for player services. I expect most of this NIL money will be through spokesperson advertising. Now here's the thing.....wouldn't that create some pissed off teammates?

I'm thinking if locker room issues begin to emerge, most coaches will probably say "No thanks"? There will be some trial and error, but eventually it will take care of itself.

I'm of the belief that this has been going on for decades, it is just out in the open now. I think to believe otherwise is sticking one's head in the sand.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 09:09 AM
I'm of the belief that this has been going on for decades, it is just out in the open now. I think to believe otherwise is sticking one's head in the sand.

100%

It is hilarious to me that people think the transfer and NIL rules are creating some sort of new groups in college athletics, the "haves" and "have nots". Um, hello, McFly? Have you been paying attention to college sports for the last 40 years?

Final4
04-20-2022, 09:11 AM
What if this becomes common going forward?

"Local car dealership millionaire and Duke alumn offers player 200K in NIL to transfer to the Blue Devils."

Same thing could happen with top HS talent. It definitely IS free agency if a bidding war occurs for player services. I expect most of this NIL money will be through spokesperson advertising. Now here's the thing.....wouldn't that create some pissed off teammates?

I'm thinking if locker room issues begin to emerge, most coaches will probably say "No thanks"? There will be some trial and error, but eventually it will take care of itself.

We’ll find out soon enough I guess as we see how Hercy Miller is integrated into the Xavier program.

xavierj
04-20-2022, 09:21 AM
100%

It is hilarious to me that people think the transfer and NIL rules are creating some sort of new groups in college athletics, the "haves" and "have nots". Um, hello, McFly? Have you been paying attention to college sports for the last 40 years?

Agree guys were getting money but it wasn’t everyone at all levels and it was not to the extent it is now. In addition, companies can now use the money for business tax write offs, which would have been difficult before. I will also say it’s mostly a power 5 thing in football. My son plays d1 FBS football, not at a power 5, and guys on his team were not and are not getting paid. A few guys now have NIL deals but they are not even 5 figures.

Xuperman
04-20-2022, 09:30 AM
I'm of the belief that this has been going on for decades, it is just out in the open now. I think to believe otherwise is sticking one's head in the sand.

Of course, but it always was nefarious cash channeled through some family member or some other sort of goodies. Now, this dirty money is clean and the people offering up this money will get more than just a basketball player.....the player will actually "earn" this money in most cases.

Xuperman
04-20-2022, 09:44 AM
Just delving a little further down this rabbit hole. Will we see the day when official school Jerseys will be sold at Cintas with players names on the back? What about selling autographs at school functions?

I'm going to assume, no. I think the NIL of the UNIVERSITY will likely remain separate. I don't think most university presidents and ADs are crazy about where this ends up.

Xavier
04-20-2022, 09:44 AM
In college They have always gotten money at every level. I do think the dollar amount is going up for the average kids (transfer from SLU, for example) since it has gotten a lot easier. Paired with the transfer rule- I think money is flowing more than ever. It’s not a bad thing, but it is definitely going to take time getting use to the transfer portal every season.

The good thing about CBB/ it’s almost impossible to “buy” a championship. The talent gap isn’t nearly as wide as CFB. So the NIL stuff won’t hurt X as much as say a mid level level CFB team. CFB is horribly too heavy already and the ease of moving money will only widen that gap.

STL_XUfan
04-20-2022, 11:35 AM
Just delving a little further down this rabbit hole. Will we see the day when official school Jerseys will be sold at Cintas with players names on the back? What about selling autographs at school functions?

I'm going to assume, no. I think the NIL of the UNIVERSITY will likely remain separate. I don't think most university presidents and ADs are crazy about where this ends up.

The answer is yes. Xavier has already developed a licensing agreement for the athletes using the University marks:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2021/10/21/xavier-inks-brand-deal-student-athletes-ushering-new-nil-era/6119161001/

MHettel
04-20-2022, 11:52 AM
Put me in the camp that the degree of illegal benefits to players in the recent past was occurring at nowhere NEAR the frequency that some people say.

The fact is, nobody KNOWS. If it were common knowledge, then those situations would be investigated and we'd see a whole lot more discipline and penalties from the NCAA.

All these claims that "it happens everywhere" is just a case where groupthink takes over and a rumor perpetuates itself. I hear a rumor but don't know any details about it, but I tell a friend who assumes that I know the details and just have not passed thise details along, but to him I'm not passing along a rumor, I'm passing along a fact. And then it just keeps getting passed along, over and over and over until it just becomes accepted that "it happens everywhere". Nonsense.

I'm quite sure that "it has happened", but to nowhere near the magnitude that the rumor mill spits out. Nor is it nearly as Systematic.

This NIL thing is an ACTUAL change to what is going on. It's not just taking something out of the shadows and bringing it into the light.

For years the "players rights advocates" have argued that "this wont change anything." But it is changing.....EVERYTHING.

Masterofreality
04-20-2022, 11:57 AM
Allow me to post this “off topic” item regarding Xavier’s NIL program. This is from Associate Athletic Director Seth Breitenstein.
I think it makes XU’s position clearer.

From Seth Breitenstein :

Dear Lew Hirt Society Members!

For starters, thank you again for inviting me to speak to the LHS. Always love sharing about Xavier Athletics and I look forward to the baseball meet up soon.

Just like the LHS did in 1986 by showing people how important it was to be a season ticket holder I am hoping the group can once again lead the way and help start the NIL process at Xavier.

MarketPryce Musketeers
How to get involved?
1) Spread the word – tell friends an alumni this is the place to help Xavier student-athletes connect with NIL deals
2) If you own a company or work for a company
3) that wants to be promoted by Xavier student-athletes and their social media then sign up the company.
a. Easy as entering your email!
b. It is no charge to the company at all – a no brainer!
4) Put in $$$$ - You got $25, $100, $500 that you want to go to Xavier student-athletes for promoting local businesses? Put it in Marketpryce Musketeers.
a. You can pick the team you want to get 75% of your non tax deductible support.
b. Easy step by step process.
c. 100% of the money put in goes to Xavier student-athletes
i. 75% to the team you pick (ex: Men’s Basketball) and 25% goes to all student-athletes at Xavier who do the monthly social media posts.

How does it work?
1) Xavier student-athletes are signed up
2) Local businesses need to sign up
3) Non tax-deductible money is put in to support NIL work for Xavier student-athletes
a. At this time, money in is non tax deductible.
b. Money in does not have anything to do with Xavier Athletics/Xavier University. It is payment for student-athletes to promote local businesses
4) Once you click the link… MarketPryce Musketeers
a. Putting money in “I’m a Fan”
b. Signing up your company “I’m an Athlete/Business”

The Process:
-Each month a business that is signed up will be picked to be promoted. X student-athletes are then invited to be a part of that monthly marketing campaign and then post about the company a couple times throughout the month and are paid to do so.

That is a lot of information but this is important so let me know if you have any questions. NIL, to me, is just one more way to support Xavier student-athletes! We help to provide scholarships and great facilities for them to train in. Now we can help them take advantage of NIL.

As I said at the LHS gathering, it is important that Xavier is organized in our efforts. Send any questions my way and thank you!

Seth

Seth L. Breitenstein
Xavier Athletics
Associate AD – Development
Breitensteins1@xavier.edu
T 513-745-3572

Xavier University
3800 Victory Pkwy.
Cincinnati, OH 45207
AFO1

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 12:33 PM
Put me in the camp that the degree of illegal benefits to players in the recent past was occurring at nowhere NEAR the frequency that some people say.

The fact is, nobody KNOWS. If it were common knowledge, then those situations would be investigated and we'd see a whole lot more discipline and penalties from the NCAA.

All these claims that "it happens everywhere" is just a case where groupthink takes over and a rumor perpetuates itself. I hear a rumor but don't know any details about it, but I tell a friend who assumes that I know the details and just have not passed thise details along, but to him I'm not passing along a rumor, I'm passing along a fact. And then it just keeps getting passed along, over and over and over until it just becomes accepted that "it happens everywhere". Nonsense.

I'm quite sure that "it has happened", but to nowhere near the magnitude that the rumor mill spits out. Nor is it nearly as Systematic.

This NIL thing is an ACTUAL change to what is going on. It's not just taking something out of the shadows and bringing it into the light.

For years the "players rights advocates" have argued that "this wont change anything." But it is changing.....EVERYTHING.

I am really not sure what the fear is? The biggest change is more players getting access to more money? What is the bottom line fear?

That Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Villanova, Louisville, MSU, OSU, Michigan, Arizona, FL, UVA, Texas, etc are going to get the best players and become the "haves" because they have the most money/boosters with the most money to get players?

Ummmm......again, hello? I don't get the difference?

XUGRAD80
04-20-2022, 01:48 PM
What many of want is an EQUAL playing field. We aren’t stupid, we know that an equal playing field does NOT exist and may never have actually existed. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is what is desired. This new program all but makes that something that will never happen.

Now if you’re fine with the way things have been, with the idea that there is a small group of schools that will always dominate recruiting and thus will probably always dominate the rankings and win most of the championships, you’re probably fine with all this. But I never thought that this was supposed to be what sport, let alone college sports, was supposed to be all about. I always figured that if someone had the talent, drive, and ability to be a champion that it shouldn’t depend on just what school they chose to attend. I always figured that the rules were designed to level out the opportunities and then let the rest of it decide who came out on top. But these rules make it abundantly clear that the schools that have the most money behind them are going to continue to dominate. It’s not necessarily what is right and what is wrong, to me it’s more a matter of what is BEST for college sports. I’m of the opinion that the BEST for college sports would to be a situation where everyone has an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to win championships. I’d certainly like to see rules that promoted that idea and took away the advantages that the the big schools have over the smaller schools. But this legislation does exactly the opposite.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 02:00 PM
What many of want is an EQUAL playing field. We aren’t stupid, we know that an equal playing field does NOT exist and may never have actually existed. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is what is desired. This new program all but makes that something that will never happen.

Now if you’re fine with the way things have been, with the idea that there is a small group of schools that will always dominate recruiting and thus will probably always dominate the rankings and win most of the championships, you’re probably fine with all this. But I never thought that this was supposed to be what sport, let alone college sports, was supposed to be all about. I always figured that if someone had the talent, drive, and ability to be a champion that it shouldn’t depend on just what school they chose to attend. I always figured that the rules were designed to level out the opportunities and then let the rest of it decide who came out on top. But these rules make it abundantly clear that the schools that have the most money behind them are going to continue to dominate. It’s not necessarily what is right and what is wrong, to me it’s more a matter of what is BEST for college sports. I’m of the opinion that the BEST for college sports would to be a situation where everyone has an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to win championships. I’d certainly like to see rules that promoted that idea and took away the advantages that the the big schools have over the smaller schools. But this legislation does exactly the opposite.

You are correct, it never actually existed. So you are blaming a new system for changing something that hasn't changed bc YOU desired college sports to be different.

At the same time, college basketball will continue to have Cinderella's in the dance. That is what makes college basketball so awesome, that won't be going away. Also basketball is much better suited for parity (as much as there can be) than football, because less players on each team. Also everyone gets a chance to make a run.

But yes, this is not changing the fact that there are about 10 schools who every year will have the best chance at winning it all due to their status in college basketball and money, and recruiting. There will always be other teams who on any given year (hopefully X, like we have in the past) have teams good enough to challenge for a final 4 spot.

I just come back to, what is the main fear? It seems by your answer, your main fear is that something you hoped for college basketball to be (even though it wasn't that thing) is now surely to never happen? Is that accurate?

XUGRAD80
04-20-2022, 02:08 PM
What you’re not getting is that it’s NOT a FEAR. I’m not fearful of something happening or changing. I want some thing to change. But this is NOT the change that I, and many others, desired. It’s the opposite. IMO it doesn’t make equal opportunity more likely, it makes it less likely. That’s not a fear, that’s a fact. I’m not in favor of things that create less opportunity for less schools and make it more likely that a small number will dominate. It’s just not what I see as in the best interest of the majority of schools and the long term health of college sports and it’s athletes.

I’d like to see the power 6 just leave the NCAA and form their own association with their own rules.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 02:21 PM
What you’re not getting is that it’s NOT a FEAR. I’m not fearful of something happening or changing. I want some thing to change. But this is NOT the change that I, and many others, desired. It’s the opposite. IMO it doesn’t make equal opportunity more likely, it makes it less likely. That’s not a fear, that’s a fact. I’m not in favor of things that create less opportunity for less schools and make it more likely that a small number will dominate. It’s just not what I see as in the best interest of the majority of schools and the long term health of college sports and it’s athletes.

I’d like to see the power 6 just leave the NCAA and form their own association with their own rules.

I have no idea how the bolded part at all jives with your hope for what you want college sports to be. It seems to be the exact opposite.

And it is a fear for some. Some people like exactly how college sports have been and don't want to see anything change because the fear what that might mean for how they currently like it, or their favorite team, etc.

You are sort of an interesting case because you apparently don't like how college sports have been operating for decades and want something that has never really truly existed. So, for you this change gets you further from that. What I think you are missing is that this change moves you in a miniscule direction further from what you wanted, because of how far away college sports really already was from your ideal scenario.

Final4
04-20-2022, 02:43 PM
There is a recruit from Indianapolis who loves Sean Miller. He has a great relationship with Dante Jackson who has been following said recruit for three years. He has met all the X players and immediately bonded with all of them. He loves Xavier’s campus. He loves Xavier’s academics. He loves Cincinnati. His family can come and watch him play as they’re less than two hours away which is very important to him and his family. He loves X’s style of play and can see himself getting minutes immediately. He loves Xavier’s rich basketball tradition.

He signs with Oregon State simply because they offered him the most money.

I’m an old fart so take this for what it’s worth. I view the former as the essence of college athletics, part of its genetic code, the reasons why a recruit chooses a school. I view the latter as nothing more than professional sports.

Xville
04-20-2022, 02:51 PM
There is a recruit from Indianapolis who loves Sean Miller. He has a great relationship with Dante Jackson who has been following said recruit for three years. He has met all the X players and immediately bonded with all of them. He loves Xavier’s campus. He loves Xavier’s academics. He loves Cincinnati. His family can come and watch him play as they’re less than two hours away which is very important to him and his family. He loves X’s style of play and can see himself getting minutes immediately. He loves Xavier’s rich basketball tradition.

He signs with Oregon State simply because they offered him the most money.

I’m an old fart so take this for what it’s worth. I view the former as the essence of college athletics, part of its genetic code, the reasons why a recruit chooses a school. I view the latter as nothing more than professional sports.

Is this scenario real or a hypothetical? I don’t see anyone Oregon state basketball has signed that’s from Indy.

drudy23
04-20-2022, 03:02 PM
There is a recruit from Indianapolis who loves Sean Miller. He has a great relationship with Dante Jackson who has been following said recruit for three years. He has met all the X players and immediately bonded with all of them. He loves Xavier’s campus. He loves Xavier’s academics. He loves Cincinnati. His family can come and watch him play as they’re less than two hours away which is very important to him and his family. He loves X’s style of play and can see himself getting minutes immediately. He loves Xavier’s rich basketball tradition.

He signs with Oregon State simply because they offered him the most money.

I’m an old fart so take this for what it’s worth. I view the former as the essence of college athletics, part of its genetic code, the reasons why a recruit chooses a school. I view the latter as nothing more than professional sports.

Assuming this is a hypothetical:

Initially, I think the kids follow the money. I think they soon realize that following the money isn't always the best fit. Who of us hasn't done that in our career? JUST following the money usually doesn't end well, unless other things that provide you happiness are in place.

I do think this helps the big money schools early on - but I also think it will implode in alot of recruits faces and that it will take a few years for recruits to realize that their best destination isn't always about the $$$, especially when you're very young and out on your own for the first time.

MHettel
04-20-2022, 03:52 PM
I am really not sure what the fear is? The biggest change is more players getting access to more money? What is the bottom line fear?

That Kansas, UK, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Villanova, Louisville, MSU, OSU, Michigan, Arizona, FL, UVA, Texas, etc are going to get the best players and become the "haves" because they have the most money/boosters with the most money to get players?

Ummmm......again, hello? I don't get the difference?

This game will become unrecognizable due to NIL and Transfer portal. I really enjoy college basketball. So I suppose my "fear" is that I wont like the changes in the competitive landscape and as a result I wont enjoy watching the game as much.

Is that dumbed down enough for you? I dont think the game benefits at all from the changes. And I think the fans will realize that very quickly.

MHettel
04-20-2022, 03:58 PM
Assuming this is a hypothetical:

Initially, I think the kids follow the money. I think they soon realize that following the money isn't always the best fit. Who of us hasn't done that in our career? JUST following the money usually doesn't end well, unless other things that provide you happiness are in place.

I do think this helps the big money schools early on - but I also think it will implode in alot of recruits faces and that it will take a few years for recruits to realize that their best destination isn't always about the $$$, especially when you're very young and out on your own for the first time.

Drudy you are high.

These are 18 year old kids. You really think they are gonna just listen to someone who tells them that it's not always about the money, and you may regret your decision?

No, they are gonna MAKE that decision, go for the money and hope for the best. And if they end up learning a tough lesson....well so be it.....they got paid.

18 year old kids, man. kids.

xudash
04-20-2022, 04:06 PM
What you’re not getting is that it’s NOT a FEAR. I’m not fearful of something happening or changing. I want some thing to change. But this is NOT the change that I, and many others, desired. It’s the opposite. IMO it doesn’t make equal opportunity more likely, it makes it less likely. That’s not a fear, that’s a fact. I’m not in favor of things that create less opportunity for less schools and make it more likely that a small number will dominate. It’s just not what I see as in the best interest of the majority of schools and the long term health of college sports and it’s athletes.

I’d like to see the power 6 just leave the NCAA and form their own association with their own rules.

The "Business Model" for the NCAAT requires participation as it presently exists (i.e. the P5, the Big East and everyone else). Xavier is better off in a world competing against Ohio State, Texas, Florida, et al and their NIL funding, than in a world where the P5 takes their "ball" and moves on. It's all about the value of NCAAT UNITS, which is to simply state that it is all about the value of the media rights agreement for that tournament. It is an extremely valuable sports property as currently structured. It will lose its pixy dust if it is fractured.

IF it comes to pass that the Big East media agreement resets to no less than $8 million per school this next go around, and assuming the Big East continues to consistently pump 5 to 7 teams into the NCAAT every year, especially if X is one of those teams, then we will be able to hold our own within reason.

BTW, I understand your point. And I don't consider you to be an "idealist" based on your comments. It's just that the reality of it all is the reality of it all - per D-West's point, what had been done behind the curtain and under the table has been made legal. Frankly, it is a bad look for collegiate sports and the notion of a student-athlete. But it is what it is, and we have no choice but to adapt to the change.

With every passing year, I see the NCAAT as a remarkable crap shoot. Games that are won or lost in the last few possessions of an E8 or F4 game, in particular, because someone makes a big play, or fails to do so. It may be stupid or naive on my part, but I feel that destiny is in play for Xavier now. With Sean Miller's return, with this version of the Xavier Basketball Program made available to him with its resources and backing, and with his multiple knocks on the door, it's now time for Sean Miller and Xavier to burst through to the F4 - and maybe beyond, if a key late game play is successfully executed here and there.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 04:10 PM
This game will become unrecognizable due to NIL and Transfer portal. I really enjoy college basketball. So I suppose my "fear" is that I wont like the changes in the competitive landscape and as a result I wont enjoy watching the game as much.

Is that dumbed down enough for you? I dont think the game benefits at all from the changes. And I think the fans will realize that very quickly.

I still don't get it, so I guess not dumbed down enough.

What specifically will change about the competitive landscape. Provide a specific example please? You are a Xavier fan, so I assume you have at least some fear of this negatively affecting Xavier basketball? Can you provide a specific example?

I just don't get the competitive balance angle. The is already a huge competitive advantage to a handful of schools. But again, the good thing about college bball is there are only so many scholarships a school can offer and so much talent.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 04:11 PM
Drudy you are high.

These are 18 year old kids. You really think they are gonna just listen to someone who tells them that it's not always about the money, and you may regret your decision?

No, they are gonna MAKE that decision, go for the money and hope for the best. And if they end up learning a tough lesson....well so be it.....they got paid.

18 year old kids, man. kids.

Good news. They can now transfer without punishment if they decide what they did was a mistake! Win/win for all!

xavierj
04-20-2022, 04:52 PM
I still don't get it, so I guess not dumbed down enough.

What specifically will change about the competitive landscape. Provide a specific example please? You are a Xavier fan, so I assume you have at least some fear of this negatively affecting Xavier basketball? Can you provide a specific example?

I just don't get the competitive balance angle. The is already a huge competitive advantage to a handful of schools. But again, the good thing about college bball is there are only so many scholarships a school can offer and so much talent.

My guess is that you better have a lot of money behind you if you want to be successful. Will be interesting to see if Xavier is still able to recruit at a high level. They are not landing the top transfers and my guess is that Is due to what they have available to offer.

xu82
04-20-2022, 05:29 PM
I agree that top players have been getting paid forever. This does not mean we will just get “more of the same” without any unintended consequences. Now that this is no longer an under-the-table, “dirty” situation, I would expect some people who never wanted to cross that line to act. That will go for coaches and supporters more than players. I think the players were generally open to taking the cash and other gifts since the beginning of time.

It WILL change things in some ways. What that will look like, I really don’t know. Time will tell, and I’ll cross my fingers hoping it doesn’t significantly harm a good thing.


.

xukeith
04-20-2022, 05:31 PM
I hope with our 3 assistant coaches (ages all in 30's)will be incredible recruiting savants for the best X players ever.
Transfers will likely be upgraded too.
As much as we despised Steele, he was a darn good recruiter.

XU-PA
04-20-2022, 05:31 PM
Just delving a little further down this rabbit hole. Will we see the day when official school Jerseys will be sold at Cintas with players names on the back? What about selling autographs at school functions?

I'm going to assume, no. I think the NIL of the UNIVERSITY will likely remain separate. I don't think most university presidents and ADs are crazy about where this ends up.

Already happening. Store at Cintas had jerseys with some players names late in the season. They are also available at the All For One store

MHettel
04-20-2022, 06:31 PM
I still don't get it, so I guess not dumbed down enough.

What specifically will change about the competitive landscape. Provide a specific example please? You are a Xavier fan, so I assume you have at least some fear of this negatively affecting Xavier basketball? Can you provide a specific example?

I just don't get the competitive balance angle. The is already a huge competitive advantage to a handful of schools. But again, the good thing about college bball is there are only so many scholarships a school can offer and so much talent.

You've lost me.

You understand the idea that there could be changes that get implemented today, and the consequences of those changes may not be known until some time in the future. You get that right?

I'm anticipating that the consequences of the NIL and Transfer rules will impact the game for the worse, not for the better. Part of what I enjoy about the game is seeing players grow over their 4 years. I like seeing a mid-major that has an NBA talent. I like recognizing the players from year to year. I like knowing that a small conference team with a group of upper-classmen can beat teams that are "more talented" and "more athletic."

If you introduce money and the ability to transfer into the mix, the chances that the items I list above occur gets reduced drastically. Heck, we just saw the kid from Iowa State join the portal. He was the Big 12 Freshman of the year and played on a Tourney team. GONE. So much for Iowa State recruiting and building around him. Being the Freshman of the Year on a good team in a great conference would be the DREAM of most kids. But this guy just sees it as another rung on the ladder.

Competitive imbalance will go to extreme levels. I would guess that around 300 teams end up serving as various levels of the "minor leagues." teams outside of the Big 5+BE will largely be locked out of having any chance of success with the exception of maybe a few teams (Zags, maybe Memphis). There will be Big5+BE teams that will also be locked out (Wash St, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, etc).

Power will be consolidated. Money will be consolidated among these teams. That will further the consolidation.

I cant "point at it" now. But I'm betting I will be able to point to it over the next 3-5 years. You wont recognize College Basketball.

A Fan
04-20-2022, 07:38 PM
You've lost me.

You understand the idea that there could be changes that get implemented today, and the consequences of those changes may not be known until some time in the future. You get that right?

I'm anticipating that the consequences of the NIL and Transfer rules will impact the game for the worse, not for the better. Part of what I enjoy about the game is seeing players grow over their 4 years. I like seeing a mid-major that has an NBA talent. I like recognizing the players from year to year. I like knowing that a small conference team with a group of upper-classmen can beat teams that are "more talented" and "more athletic."

If you introduce money and the ability to transfer into the mix, the chances that the items I list above occur gets reduced drastically. Heck, we just saw the kid from Iowa State join the portal. He was the Big 12 Freshman of the year and played on a Tourney team. GONE. So much for Iowa State recruiting and building around him. Being the Freshman of the Year on a good team in a great conference would be the DREAM of most kids. But this guy just sees it as another rung on the ladder.

Competitive imbalance will go to extreme levels. I would guess that around 300 teams end up serving as various levels of the "minor leagues." teams outside of the Big 5+BE will largely be locked out of having any chance of success with the exception of maybe a few teams (Zags, maybe Memphis). There will be Big5+BE teams that will also be locked out (Wash St, Nebraska, Georgia Tech, etc).

Power will be consolidated. Money will be consolidated among these teams. That will further the consolidation.

I cant "point at it" now. But I'm betting I will be able to point to it over the next 3-5 years. You wont recognize College Basketball.
This post and your prior post are well thought out and presented. I do not know how it will all shake out but undoubtedly it will be some version of professional basketball. I , like you, loved to see teams recruit talent and DEVELOP them and have them play 4 years. Now if a coach finds the diamond in the rough and develops them, they lose them to the top programs. How can the lower tier teams not be unintended farm teams for the Big Guys? Tell me this . David West. Is there anybody on this board who wants to up their hand and say David West would have stayed at X in this environment.? Why would he just not start making the Big Bucks a little earlier?

XUGRAD80
04-20-2022, 07:40 PM
I guess is that there are going to be cases where a kid (and I’m not just talking about basketball here, I’m talking about all the sports) is torn because they have to decide between a school that they always wanted to attend and another, because the other school is able to offer the a much better NIL package.

Is that really what you want in amateur college sports? Maybe I’m a dreamer, but it sure isn’t what I want to see.

And if that is Ok with you I hope you keep in mind that realistically good old Xavier U isn’t going to be able to compete with schools like OSU and Louisville when it comes to providing NIL’s. From a personal selfish point of view I can’t see how any X fan is in favor of that happening.

Also….
this ruling effects ALL sports, not just mens BB and FB. It’s going to ramifications for every college sport. Some of those ramifications are good for individuals, but I’m not so sure it’s good for the overall health of college sports.

Sure there are going to be upsets in the BB tourney, just as there are upsets during the regular season. The same thing will happen in other sports too. But to my way of thinking college sports are best when there are multiple teams capable of winning a championship, and not just a select few every year. Professional BB, Football, and Basketball have all come to the realization that have only a few teams dominate every year is not a good business model. Fans lose interest in teams that are annually bad. Ticket sales drop. TV Ratings suffer. Revenue drops. Having more teams, not less teams, that are competitive is a good thing for schools, players, and fans alike.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 07:52 PM
My guess is that you better have a lot of money behind you if you want to be successful. Will be interesting to see if Xavier is still able to recruit at a high level. They are not landing the top transfers and my guess is that Is due to what they have available to offer.

I am literally wondering what is different? Nothing about anything you said is different than 3 years ago.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 07:53 PM
I agree that top players have been getting paid forever. This does not mean we will just get “more of the same” without any unintended consequences. Now that this is no longer an under-the-table, “dirty” situation, I would expect some people who never wanted to cross that line to act. That will go for coaches and supporters more than players. I think the players were generally open to taking the cash and other gifts since the beginning of time.

It WILL change things in some ways. What that will look like, I really don’t know. Time will tell, and I’ll cross my fingers hoping it doesn’t significantly harm a good thing.


.

I would think schools who werent willing to break rules who now pay players would be at a bigger advantage now than previously.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 07:58 PM
I guess is that there are going to be cases where a kid (and I’m not just talking about basketball here, I’m talking about all the sports) is torn because they have to decide between a school that they always wanted to attend and another, because the other school is able to offer the a much better NIL package.



This is something regular high school kids do now every year. They had a dream school but they got more scholarship money to another school. They have a tough decision to make.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 08:13 PM
Professional BB, Football, and Basketball have all come to the realization that have only a few teams dominate every year is not a good business model. Fans lose interest in teams that are annually bad. Ticket sales drop. TV Ratings suffer. Revenue drops. Having more teams, not less teams, that are competitive is a good thing for schools, players, and fans alike.

15 different MLB teams have won the last 21 World Series.

13 different teams have won the last 16 Super Bowls.

9 different NBA teams have won the last 14 NBA championship

10 different college basketball teams have won the Final 4 in the last 18 years

10 different college football teams have won the last 20 championships.

Pro sports has almost always had more parity than college sports, so I have no idea where you are going with any of this whole comment.

xavierj
04-20-2022, 08:32 PM
I am literally wondering what is different? Nothing about anything you said is different than 3 years ago.

I think it is. Xavier wasn’t paying $200k plus to get players. They may have to secure that now. How is that not different?

A Fan
04-20-2022, 08:43 PM
15 different MLB teams have won the last 21 World Series.

13 different teams have won the last 16 Super Bowls.

9 different NBA teams have won the last 14 NBA championship

10 different college basketball teams have won the Final 4 in the last 18 years

10 different college football teams have won the last 20 championships.

Pro sports has almost always had more parity than college sports, so I have no idea where you are going with any of this whole comment.

Take your 13 , 9 , 10 and 10. That is what you might see . And you don’t think they won’t represent the Division 1 teams offering the most money. Are you saying those teams will be mid Major Division 1 teams? How?

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 10:04 PM
Take your 13 , 9 , 10 and 10. That is what you might see . And you don’t think they won’t represent the Division 1 teams offering the most money. Are you saying those teams will be mid Major Division 1 teams? How?

I'm not understanding your point/what you are asking.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 10:04 PM
I think it is. Xavier wasn’t paying $200k plus to get players. They may have to secure that now. How is that not different?

Xavier isn't/won't be paying anything.

usfldan
04-20-2022, 10:17 PM
This post and your prior post are well thought out and presented. I do not know how it will all shake out but undoubtedly it will be some version of professional basketball. I , like you, loved to see teams recruit talent and DEVELOP them and have them play 4 years. Now if a coach finds the diamond in the rough and develops them, they lose them to the top programs. How can the lower tier teams not be unintended farm teams for the Big Guys? Tell me this . David West. Is there anybody on this board who wants to up their hand and say David West would have stayed at X in this environment.? Why would he just not start making the Big Bucks a little earlier?


David West did have a chance to start making Big Bucks a little earlier. He chose to stay for his senior season instead.


I don't see a big change in the competitive balance. Big schools have always had an advantage (better competition, more exposure, better chance of going pro). Better chance of offering more money will just be one more thing on the list. That being said, nothing is stopping some wealthy Canisius grad from from offering crazy amounts of NIL money and suddenly making them an attractive option.
There are also still plenty of players who will be great at the low- and mid-major levels, but won't be good enough for the high majors (like the guy who tears it up at AAA, but stinks every chance he gets in the major leagues).

What I do fear is some of the issues we do see in pro sports creeping into college sports.
What happens if a company that offers millions to attract a stud recruiting class goes bankrupt mid-season, and now the players on the team refuse to play?
What happens when a player has a great regular season, and decides if he doesn't get a better NIL deal, he's not going to play in the tournament?

xavierj
04-20-2022, 10:27 PM
Xavier isn't/won't be paying anything.

Not directly but they will be asked to have it lined up. NIL deals are going to affect recruiting. That’s all I am saying is different now. We won’t know how it will impact Xavier for a bit and that is really all that matters to me, is how Xavier is impacted.

D-West & PO-Z
04-20-2022, 10:36 PM
Not directly but they will be asked to have it lined up. NIL deals are going to affect recruiting. That’s all I am saying is different now. We won’t know how it will impact Xavier for a bit and that is really all that matters to me, is how Xavier is impacted.

Yes, Xavier will have to figure that out for sure. However, I just don't really see it negatively impacting them much unless programs on the same level or lower than them currently figure out how to do it and X doesn't.

The big schools who will do it great who have already been better in every way than X wont be stealing guys that X would be going for anyway. They already get guys X can't get.

I guess maybe schools on par or below X currently who have big money grads could get a leg up on X? We will see.

MHettel
04-20-2022, 11:51 PM
What happens if a company that offers millions to attract a stud recruiting class goes bankrupt mid-season, and now the players on the team refuse to play?
What happens when a player has a great regular season, and decides if he doesn't get a better NIL deal, he's not going to play in the tournament?

these are not legitimate things to worry about.

MHettel
04-20-2022, 11:58 PM
Yes, Xavier will have to figure that out for sure. However, I just don't really see it negatively impacting them much unless programs on the same level or lower than them currently figure out how to do it and X doesn't.

The big schools who will do it great who have already been better in every way than X wont be stealing guys that X would be going for anyway. They already get guys X can't get.

I guess maybe schools on par or below X currently who have big money grads could get a leg up on X? We will see.

I already see. You are all for "players rights" and refuse to envision a reality where the product is worse for all of these changes. I already know that in the future players like Colby Jones will come to XU for the 20K NIL offer (we WILL be in the business to some degree) and he will essentially be a free agent after his Freshman season and then a team like OK State with a couple Billionaire alumni will offer 50K and thats an easy decision.

individual companies will sponsor specific players and then the pressure will be on the staff to play the player so the marketing dollars pay off. Wait until that reality sets in. When an NIL "Sponsor" threatens to pull their money because "their guy" isnt getting enough PT.

D-West & PO-Z
04-21-2022, 09:15 AM
I already see. You are all for "players rights" and refuse to envision a reality where the product is worse for all of these changes. I already know that in the future players like Colby Jones will come to XU for the 20K NIL offer (we WILL be in the business to some degree) and he will essentially be a free agent after his Freshman season and then a team like OK State with a couple Billionaire alumni will offer 50K and thats an easy decision.

individual companies will sponsor specific players and then the pressure will be on the staff to play the player so the marketing dollars pay off. Wait until that reality sets in. When an NIL "Sponsor" threatens to pull their money because "their guy" isnt getting enough PT.

Ok, so your main concern is that Xavier will have current players stolen by power teams with a lot of money, who basketball-wise, are either on par or below Xavier? That is the first time (at least in this thread) you have articulated specifically your fear for these changes.

It seems like you would have less concern if the changes were ONLY NIL or ONLY new transfer rule and not both but that the combo has you very worried? That correct? I can see the concern, I just think the example you provided is on the extreme end and not all that likely to happen, at least regularly, to X specifically.

What would be stopping this from happening right now? Would seem now would have been the perfect time for mass exodus of Xavier's best players to teams with boosters with money to burn. With the coaching change and all. Either deep money teams havent figured it out yet how to poach players (doubtful) or Colby isnt really worth munch money to some deep pocket booster (possible/likely) or Colby really loves X and wants to play for a proven winner of a coach (possible/likely).

There will be some extreme situations, there will be some head scratchers, there will be transfers in and out, there will be changes to get used to, I think there is a miniscule chance there is a doomsday scenario that you seem to think is so likely, and I think in 5 years people wont even give any of this a second thought, whereas in 5 years you think college basketball will be ruined/unrecognizable. Again, we will see.

xudash
04-21-2022, 01:57 PM
Ok, so your main concern is that Xavier will have current players stolen by power teams with a lot of money, who basketball-wise, are either on par or below Xavier? That is the first time (at least in this thread) you have articulated specifically your fear for these changes.

It seems like you would have less concern if the changes were ONLY NIL or ONLY new transfer rule and not both but that the combo has you very worried? That correct? I can see the concern, I just think the example you provided is on the extreme end and not all that likely to happen, at least regularly, to X specifically.

What would be stopping this from happening right now? Would seem now would have been the perfect time for mass exodus of Xavier's best players to teams with boosters with money to burn. With the coaching change and all. Either deep money teams havent figured it out yet how to poach players (doubtful) or Colby isnt really worth munch money to some deep pocket booster (possible/likely) or Colby really loves X and wants to play for a proven winner of a coach (possible/likely).

There will be some extreme situations, there will be some head scratchers, there will be transfers in and out, there will be changes to get used to, I think there is a miniscule chance there is a doomsday scenario that you seem to think is so likely, and I think in 5 years people wont even give any of this a second thought, whereas in 5 years you think college basketball will be ruined/unrecognizable. Again, we will see.

Tend to agree with you here.

Let's sculpt another scenario into this for giggles:

- Colby Jones comes to Xavier, excels, snags a $20k NIL deal, and then Okie State oil money comes calling with a $50k NIL offer.

- Fork in the road time: do I stay or do I go (Colby singing that).

What else is in the mix here? Is it and will it only always be about the money; about the highest bidder as these kids wind their way through their collegiate careers. I think this is where your "head scratchers" insight comes in. Otherwise, if I'm Colby and I love my team, I love my school, I love my school's conference affiliation as it is, and I'm confident that I'm going to be making good money at basketball for a while either overseas or in the NBA domain, then I'm not sure a $30k differential bump is going to RIP me out of a familiar, safe, known situation.

Some of these kids will cause us to scratch our heads. Some most likely may not do that.

One more thing: I wouldn't be surprised if "NIL Fatigue" sets in at some point on the part of NIL funding sources. A few years of this without any noticeable change in results for a funder's school and that funder may begin to believe it isn't worth it. On a relative basis, that probably won't happen at the behemoth schools like Ohio State and Alabama - for football, in particular, obviously - but such fatigue may set in within the middling P5 donor bases and certainly within mid-major schools.

Collegiate athletics has arrives at a slippery slope. We'll see where it heads from here.

xukeith
04-21-2022, 05:01 PM
Tend to agree with you here.

Let's sculpt another scenario into this for giggles:

- Colby Jones comes to Xavier, excels, snags a $20k NIL deal, and then Okie State oil money comes calling with a $50k NIL offer.

- Fork in the road time: do I stay or do I go (Colby singing that).

What else is in the mix here? Is it and will it only always be about the money; about the highest bidder as these kids wind their way through their collegiate careers. I think this is where your "head scratchers" insight comes in. Otherwise, if I'm Colby and I love my team, I love my school, I love my school's conference affiliation as it is, and I'm confident that I'm going to be making good money at basketball for a while either overseas or in the NBA domain, then I'm not sure a $30k differential bump is going to RIP me out of a familiar, safe, known situation.

Some of these kids will cause us to scratch our heads. Some most likely may not do that.

One more thing: I wouldn't be surprised if "NIL Fatigue" sets in at some point on the part of NIL funding sources. A few years of this without any noticeable change in results for a funder's school and that funder may begin to believe it isn't worth it. On a relative basis, that probably won't happen at the behemoth schools like Ohio State and Alabama - for football, in particular, obviously - but such fatigue may set in within the middling P5 donor bases and certainly within mid-major schools.

Collegiate athletics has arrives at a slippery slope. We'll see where it heads from here.

A lot of players cannot turn away from $30,000 helping mom, dad, grandparents, siblings. Others will aim higher.

Xavier
04-21-2022, 06:21 PM
I’m surprised X hasn’t landed someone yet. I think they will still get one or two impact players before it’s all said and done.

xu82
04-21-2022, 06:43 PM
I’m surprised X hasn’t landed someone yet. I think they will still get one or two impact players before it’s all said and done.

I should probably know this, but is there a deadline when this all has to be settled? When is that? I hardly recognize college sports, especially basketball.

xukeith
04-21-2022, 08:04 PM
I should probably know this, but is there a deadline when this all has to be settled? When is that? I hardly recognize college sports, especially basketball.

May 1

xu82
04-21-2022, 08:14 PM
May 1

Thanks! Hoping for some nice surprises by then.

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever
04-21-2022, 10:01 PM
I should probably know this, but is there a deadline when this all has to be settled? When is that? I hardly recognize college sports, especially basketball.

I think 05/01 is just the deadline for players entering the pool and giving themselves the option to transfer. If you haven't entered by that date, they must wait until next year. But if by "settled" you want to know if there is a deadline by which colleges must have their rosters settled, I don't know that date but I assume it is not soon after May 01.

A Fan
04-21-2022, 11:10 PM
David West did have a chance to start making Big Bucks a little earlier. He chose to stay for his senior season instead.


I don't see a big change in the competitive balance. Big schools have always had an advantage (better competition, more exposure, better chance of going pro). Better chance of offering more money will just be one more thing on the list. That being said, nothing is stopping some wealthy Canisius grad from from offering crazy amounts of NIL money and suddenly making them an attractive option.
There are also still plenty of players who will be great at the low- and mid-major levels, but won't be good enough for the high majors (like the guy who tears it up at AAA, but stinks every chance he gets in the major leagues).

What I do fear is some of the issues we do see in pro sports creeping into college sports.
What happens if a company that offers millions to attract a stud recruiting class goes bankrupt mid-season, and now the players on the team refuse to play?
What happens when a player has a great regular season, and decides if he doesn't get a better NIL deal, he's not going to play in the tournament?

The outcome of NILÂ’s coupled with The Transfer Portal as it relates to any mid major team like Xavier is that the good players can enter the Portal, see what their NHL value is to other teams, negotiate with the current teams supporters, and decide to stay or go. The Power 5 teams already have donor collectives. They will be communicating with the coaches as to who they want and their value to a team. The coaches will be urging the collectives to gather more funds to buy better players. Xavier will be asking their supporters to form a collective to compete . Theoretically, the top teams will be competing against each other for the top players, so one could say there will be no change. But that ignores the damage where a Xavier has a player the top team did not want out of high school, but wants once developed , and who has an economic value to the other teams collective than XavierÂ’s collective can pay. Go back and take a look at the XavierÂ’ top players over the last 15 years at the end of their third year. And ask yourself in todayÂ’s dollars that if they had entered a portal their Value and whether we could have kept them. Imagine if you funded a NIL for KyKy and he was benched that you might let the coachÂ’s know your disappointment. Extend that over 5 years and imagine the friction that will be developed between players, coaches and funders. And the concern will be evident.

D-West & PO-Z
04-21-2022, 11:19 PM
any mid major team like Xavier

Ouch! Usually Xavier isn't called mid major by their own fans!

Masterofreality
04-21-2022, 11:21 PM
Ouch! Usually Xavier isn't called mid major by their own fans!

Who said this interloper is a Xavier fan?
Just A Fan of unknown.

X-man
04-22-2022, 06:18 AM
Who said this interloper is a Xavier fan?
Just A Fan of unknown.

Actually "A Fan" is a fan of a real local mid-major team, UC.

Xuperman
04-22-2022, 07:42 AM
Oscar Tshiebwe setting the early NIL bar. Getting a $2 Million deal and a new Porsche to return to Kentucky. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

XUGRAD80
04-22-2022, 07:56 AM
It will not surprise me at all if many of the NIL supporters turn out to be local car dealers. They will expect the player to shot some commercials, follow the dealership on social media, and post positive reviews. In return they get to drive a new car and make some money.

Is it only a matter of time until the College uniforms begin to look like Soccer uniforms or like what the players wear on the Pro Golf Tours?

Y’all know what we say in KY, right? “An honest politician is one that stays bought.”

Xville
04-22-2022, 08:22 AM
Oscar Tshiebwe setting the early NIL bar. Getting a $2 Million deal and a new Porsche to return to Kentucky. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

I have a positive reaction to this for a few reasons.

1.) He is a heck of a player, so to have him back in college for another year is great for CBB. I think this can be a pretty positive development for CBB in that, more outstanding players may stay in school, which means gameplay will actually be better.

2.) Kid will get a degree...a positive for everyone

muskiefan82
04-22-2022, 08:49 AM
I would be the coach telling my players "You want a Tshiebwe NIL Deal? Get out there, do what I am telling you, and play the way you can and then maybe that can happen for you. Keep doing what you are doing and your deal WILL be NIL"

GoMuskies
04-22-2022, 08:55 AM
I would be the coach telling my players "You want a Tshiebwe NIL Deal? Get out there, do what I am telling you, and play the way you can and then maybe that can happen for you. Keep doing what you are doing and your deal WILL be NIL"

Have a great season for us, and then you can transfer to UK and get an NIL deal like that!

UCGRAD4X
04-22-2022, 09:08 AM
So, the good news is, we have a coach that can actually develop talent.

The bad news is, when they do...

muskiefan82
04-22-2022, 09:12 AM
On a serious note, are these NIL deals contracts made between the player and the sponsor? If so, I wonder what the language is in these contracts. Do they have clauses that require repayment if the player is disciplined for something team related or caught smoking pot? I would love to see one of these deals to see if there are repercussions for behavior or other activities that would reflect poorly on the sponsor. Is the deal voided if the player gets suspended or put on the bench and doesn't play? This could be a little interesting the first time something goes really wrong for a high NIL deal player who has a serious issue

Masterofreality
04-22-2022, 09:24 AM
At this point, every College Basketball program should hire an Assistant Coach NIL.
A guy in charge of only arranging NIL deals since that seems to be the big deal now.

xu82
04-22-2022, 10:38 AM
Oscar Tshiebwe setting the early NIL bar. Getting a $2 Million deal and a new Porsche to return to Kentucky. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

The QB at Alabama made more money than the QB of the Eagles last year. I’m not sure if I can ever get used to that….

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever
04-22-2022, 11:04 AM
I have a positive reaction to this for a few reasons.

1.) He is a heck of a player, so to have him back in college for another year is great for CBB. I think this can be a pretty positive development for CBB in that, more outstanding players may stay in school, which means gameplay will actually be better.

2.) Kid will get a degree...a positive for everyone

I'm headed in the opposite direction. I cannot blame the athlete for taking the money. And while the NIL, at this level, is just the latest progression down a path that has existed for some time now, for me, it is bridge too far. I see no reason why obtaining a degree even enters consideration. While it may occasionally be a consideration for an individual athlete, I question whether it enters the equation for either most athletes or boosters.

The net, net of all this is creation of a super league of well-paid players who are only tangentially affiliated with the college and instead, are just employees of the booster groups behind the NIL. Not sure what role coaches will play in this brave new world where the depth of a team's talent is merely a function of the depth of the booster's wallets.

I understand the argument of D.West (and others) that NIL deals merely bring sunlight what has been done previously in the dark. Still, I have little interest in watching a few professionalized college teams dominate collegiate basketball. NBA games, for the most part, are stupefying. That the crowd is all-in for this gives me additional pause because the majority are often wrong at critical junctures. Some fans will like it but for others, like me, it is just one more reason not to identify with a team that relies heavily upon it (and the transfer portal as well).

drudy23
04-22-2022, 11:07 AM
With money that enticing, this could get ugly. I know it's legal, but it reeks of corruption and people doing bad things to each other to get their hands on this kind of cash.

I have no clue how this plays out, but it seems like it won't be good. But who knows.

Olsingledigit
04-22-2022, 12:51 PM
At this point, every College Basketball program should hire an Assistant Coach NIL.
A guy in charge of only arranging NIL deals since that seems to be the big deal now.

I believe X has hired someone for that position.

EastCoastXman
04-22-2022, 01:08 PM
Maybe a % of the NIL payment should go back to the university to offset their scholarship money and costs paid by the university.