How long should a coach be given?

[IM4X]

Tommy Lloyd steps right in and on his first year, blows everyone away with his ability to take the reins and keep a program humming at a high level. For some other new coaches, it takes a few years. Then there are others who just can’t make it work. It is highly unlikely that a coach who has not shown much progress in certain areas and in their record over a two or three year stretch are going to ever get much better.

If someone takes over a team that has done very poorly the previous few years, then it makes sense that it might take a few years for a good coach to right the ship. He may need an entire new roster. Though, Creighton lost many of their players and they are right back in the tournament.

What if the new coach is taking over a program that was coming off a very successful year? You’ve got to imagine that has to be an easier situation. A very good coach ought to be able to keep things going or at worst have a little dip for a year until he finds some recruits to help fill the vacant spots left by the players who’ve used up their eligibility.

There are certainly some important questions an AD has to think about when critiquing his/her coach after a few years:
How well is the coach recruiting?
How well is the coach doing considering the level of talent he currently has.
How much better has the team become since he first took the job?
Is the team “below the level”, “at the level” or “above the level” you expected it would be at this point when you hired the coach?

Steele was put in a pretty good spot. It seems there is something in Tommy Lloyd’s DNA that is making the HC position an easier transition than it is for Steele. No question working with an elite coach like Few for so long likely helped him be better prepared. Still, Mack was pretty successful at X and one would assume his head assistant for so many years wouldn’t struggle quite this much during his transition to HC. X Fans weren’t expecting a 31-3 record even this year like Lloyd now has in his first season, but making it to the tournament a few times by now is really not asking too much - he had a good core that had been to multiple NCAA tournaments. He should have been able to take the reins like Tommy and at least kept things humming enough to keep getting X into the dance on a regular basis.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-arizona-wraps-up-a-no-1-seed-in-tommy-lloyds-first-season-as-a-head-coach/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-arizona-wraps-up-a-no-1-seed-in-tommy-lloyds-first-season-as-a-head-coach/amp/)

[Cornbread1190]

Tommy Lloyd is a head coach.. the problem we have here is Steele is an excellent assistant coach, not head coach.
Christopher placed Travis in a position that he’s not good at. That’s on Christopher! He did the same with the women’s program when he hired Neal. The women’s program never recovered from that mistake. X needs to hire an outside search committee to hire any future coaches. Christopher has failed and the programs have suffered.

[XUOWNSUC]

Steele has had plenty of time. It's time to save the program - hire Sean Miller!

[xuphan]

Tommy Lloyd steps right in and on his first year, blows everyone away with his ability to take the reins and keep a program humming at a high level. For some other new coaches, it takes a few years. Then there are others who just can’t make it work. It is highly unlikely that a coach who has not shown much progress in certain areas and in their record over a two or three year stretch are going to ever get much better.

If someone takes over a team that has done very poorly the previous few years, then it makes sense that it might take a few years for a good coach to right the ship. He may need an entire new roster. Though, Creighton lost many of their players and they are right back in the tournament.

What if the new coach is taking over a program that was coming off a very successful year? You’ve got to imagine that has to be an easier situation. A very good coach ought to be able to keep things going or at worst have a little dip for a year until he finds some recruits to help fill the vacant spots left by the players who’ve used up their eligibility.

There are certainly some important questions an AD has to think about when critiquing his/her coach after a few years:
How well is the coach recruiting?
How well is the coach doing considering the level of talent he currently has.
How much better has the team become since he first took the job?
Is the team “below the level”, “at the level” or “above the level” you expected it would be at this point when you hired the coach?

Steele was put in a pretty good spot. It seems there is something in Tommy Lloyd’s DNA that is making the HC position an easier transition than it is for Steele. No question working with an elite coach like Few for so long likely helped him be better prepared. Still, Mack was pretty successful at X and one would assume his head assistant for so many years wouldn’t struggle quite this much during his transition to HC. X Fans weren’t expecting a 31-3 record even this year like Lloyd now has in his first season, but making it to the tournament a few times by now is really not asking too much - he had a good core that had been to multiple NCAA tournaments. He should have been able to take the reins like Tommy and at least kept things humming enough to keep getting X into the dance on a regular basis.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-arizona-wraps-up-a-no-1-seed-in-tommy-lloyds-first-season-as-a-head-coach/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-arizona-wraps-up-a-no-1-seed-in-tommy-lloyds-first-season-as-a-head-coach/amp/)

I would say 3-4 years. You have the let the new coach bring in his guys and install his coaching style and system within the team. By the third and definitely the fourth year, you have a pretty good idea about the trajectory of the program under the coach.

[Backyard Champ]

All depends on the state of the program before taking over. And if you can see progress, even if they aren’t the results you want, if you see progress to those results, you get more years.

We’ve seen a pattern with Steele. In our situation, enough is enough.

[UCGRAD4X]

There is absolutely no justification for continuing this Travisty. I can't see any argument, however slim, that would go on the 'keep' side of the leger.

Anything?

Anything?

Bueller?

[Xavier]

Tough comparison because that team is stacked. But every situation is different. In general you want to give coach some time…so long as each year is showing progress. Risky to go through coaches….but If you don’t see that, giving more time only hurts the state of the program. It’s been the same thing four years in a row, no progress at all.

[drudy23]

Stop with these excuses threads.

We all agreed this was the year for no excuses. There's no reason this program should be in this situation.

No excuses. Biggest disappointment in X history.

[xavbball]

Stop with these excuses threads.

We all agreed this was the year for no excuses. There's no reason this program should be in this situation.

No excuses. Biggest disappointment in X history.

This!

[RoseyMuskie]

I think four years for a college coach at a proven program is typically the answer.

The first recruiting class would get to upperclassmen level and you’ll know which direction the program is heading.

I can see five for a lesser program, because an entire class would cycle through. But you’d want to see incremental increases in wins year over year.

[markchal]

Stop with these excuses threads.

We all agreed this was the year for no excuses. There's no reason this program should be in this situation.

No excuses. Biggest disappointment in X history.

it doesn't take much to be a program of excuses and we are perilously close to becoming just that

[xu82]

Steele has had plenty of time. It's time to save the program - hire Sean Miller!

This says it all. Pretty simple, IMO.

[Masterofreality]

Uh, remember this from last Summer?
#DanceOrDepart

[UCGRAD4X]

I think four years for a college coach at a proven program is typically the answer.

The first recruiting class would get to upperclassmen level and you’ll know which direction the program is heading.

I can see five for a lesser program, because an entire class would cycle through. But you’d want to see incremental increases in wins year over year.

The difference here is that the recruits that were already here were partly do to Travis's recruiting efforts. It's not a stretch to say that he already had his recruits.

[MHettel]

3 years in Steele’s case.

If he’s given a 4th, that means the AD is sticking his neck out.

Which means they should both be gone after this 4th year debacle.

[SM#24]

How long ? Every situation is different so it’s variable. The right time is the point where you are convinced he is not the guy.
With Travis, I was 90% there after year 2, so I was sort of ok with a year 3 as a last chance, since it was only two years. After year 3, I was at 100% and he should have been gone then. When you know, you know, so why wait.
I know you can’t really measure, but I would say once you get to 50% convinced, he gets one more year.

[SM#24]

Uh, remember this from last Summer?
#DanceOrDepart

How could we forget ?

[bleedXblue]

The time is now.

But, with a new President and an AD who is clueless, I can see them letting this shit show go on for another year.

[EastCoastXman]

By 7 PM tonight if we don't get called Travisty should be removed. Whether or not we go to NIT. Let an assistant take over the remaining game (s) and show possible coaching candidates that we are serious about the future of X hoops and lock up a new coach immediately. There are way too many openings already (Maryland, Lville, LSU, GA, K ST, Umass) and the list will only grow in the coming days. Don't get caught settling for a coach because all the good ones already accepted new positions. Get Sean before he commits.

FYI, How about Shaheen Hollaway. Great player at Seton Hall and has cut his teeth at St. Peter's. Really tough minded player who had a Big East career. He is being mentioned as a replacement to Kevin Willard if he takes the Maryland job. Need to give him a look. You will see him and his team in the NCAA Tournament this week.

[Xavgrad08]

Anyone know how the new President feels about the current state of affairs? What are her goals for the basketball program?

[bleedXblue]

Just watching Iowa/Purdue. Their players are so fundamentally superior to what Xavier has been doing the last 4 years its sad.

[Backyard Champ]

Quite frankly the basketball IQ in the program has been bad for a long time. Sometimes overall talent level and coaching can overcome it. We have neither.

[XU 23]

Fire Steele!

[SM#24]

Just watching Iowa/Purdue. Their players are so fundamentally superior to what Xavier has been doing the last 4 years its sad.

We interviewed McCaffrey and hired Mack instead.

[RoseyMuskie]

The difference here is that the recruits that were already here were partly do to Travis's recruiting efforts. It's not a stretch to say that he already had his recruits.

Great point. It solidifies he should not get a fifth.

[IM4X]

Stop with these excuses threads.

We all agreed this was the year for no excuses. There's no reason this program should be in this situation.

No excuses. Biggest disappointment in X history.


This is not an “excuse thread”. Quite the opposite. It’s a thread to discuss what is objectively fair and reasonable, without letting the emotions many of us are feeling get in the way.

It certainly feels Steele has been given plenty of time to get this program humming again. I am not suggesting otherwise. Expectations need to be set and met or else it becomes a slippery slope especially for programs trying to maintain a certain standard of excellence. That’s why it’s important to recognize if progress is still happening or if their is stagnation and the coach simply doesn’t have anymore to offer to take the team to another level.

[MHettel]

Here is the reality.

If Steele keeps his job simply because we want to avoid the buyout, then we’re so far over our head we should go back to the A10.

I get it being PART of the decision, but there is literally no reason to keep Steele.

Only one reason ($) NOT to get rid of him.

Moment of truth for XU

[JTG]

The answer is by 7:30 tonite.

[xavbball]

The answer is by 7:30 tonite.

This is the answer to this thread. We’ve given Steele enough time, no more excuses.

[SkyWalker]

It depends on how close the door is.

[UCGRAD4X]

Here is the reality.

If Steele keeps his job simply because we want to avoid the buyout, then we’re so far over our head we should go back to the A10.

I get it being PART of the decision, but there is literally no reason to keep Steele.

Only one reason ($) NOT to get rid of him.

Moment of truth for XU

I would suggest that keeping him would cost the university a bit of coin as well. Perhaps not as much as they buyout, don't know. But over a period of time, and not getting post season $$$, sponsors, advertising, concessions, merchandising...

The hit to Dana Gardens not withstanding..

[drudy23]

Here is the reality.

If Steele keeps his job simply because we want to avoid the buyout, then we’re so far over our head we should go back to the A10.

I get it being PART of the decision, but there is literally no reason to keep Steele.

Only one reason ($) NOT to get rid of him.

Moment of truth for XU

Yup. Could be a defining moment for our beloved Musketeers.

Needs to be based on vision, not fear.

[MHettel]

yup. Could be a defining moment for our beloved musketeers.

Needs to be based on vision, not fear.

exactly

[JTG]

This is what I've been nervous about ever since the season started going south. Call me a grumpy old man but I'm pretty sure Graham would unload Steele and I'm definitely sure Fr Hoff would, but I don't know about Colleen. Maybe she'll surprise us, and show she's no nonsense, and tell Steele to hit the road and really surprise us by sending Christopher with him. Please let this happen. To save a few bucks, give Miller both jobs, and let him hire extra AD Assistants to do all the day to day stuff.

[boozehound]

The ‘how long’ question for me depends a lot on the trajectory, and Steele’s isn’t good. If he had started with nothing and had a good young team that was coming together, that would be one thing. We have seen the same deficiencies for 4 years now with almost no bright spots. The players he has brought in have been as inconsistent as the upperclassmen. Something is clearly wrong with the program as a whole. As I said in another thread: there is very little worth saving here and almost nothing to build on. No way is next year’s team going to be better, so I’d rather just get a new coach in here now.

[xukeith]

X admins might not have a vision. I hope no knucklehead keeps Steele because he has two years on his contract. The experiment failed again this year. Money talks so I hope selfishly donations and season ticket sales drop.
X needs to feel the pain in the pocketbook.

[xukeith]

It’s not likely but I’m still holding out hope XU can end this nightmare as soon as X loses in NIT.

[Masterofreality]

X admins might not have a vision. I hope no knucklehead keeps Steele because he has two years on his contract. The experiment failed again this year. Money talks so I hope selfishly donations and season ticket sales drop.
X needs to feel the pain in the pocketbook.

We are out of our 3 if Steele is retained.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

The OPs answer is typically 4. Macks 4th year was terrible with no tourney and many including me were calling for his head. The difference is that he had early success and later success. The admins knew he could do it. Steele has nothing of the sort to fall back on. All things equal he could be terminated, if they aren’t.

There is a buyout to consider and there is a FIL to consider. If I were Christopher I would leverage the FIL on Steele. If it’s true everyone must know. Dragging out the last dime from a buyout would look bad especially after 4 year of zero success. No way the FIL wants to walk around campus after that either. There is a reckoning coming.

[XUBison]

…There is a buyout to consider and there is a FIL to consider. If I were Christopher I would leverage the FIL on Steele. If it’s true everyone must know. Dragging out the last dime from a buyout would look bad especially after 4 year of zero success. No way the FIL wants to walk around campus after that either. There is a reckoning coming.

The FIL situation is a grotesque disgrace, a pathetic embarrassment.

[xavbball]

The FIL situation is a grotesque disgrace, a pathetic embarrassment.

This isn't getting enough attention. If Steele is given another year, this will be why.

[GoMuskies]

It's not great given where we find ourselves. On the other hand, if Travis was killing it and other teams were starting to sniff around we'd be absolutely thrilled by the situation with his wife and father in law.