Game Thread: Xavier v Kent State (11/12/2021)

[paulxu]

https://www.brickeconomy.com/resources/images/sets/lego-8804-3_large.jpgVS. http://www.kentstatesports.com/images/logos/site/site.png


THE MATCHUP

XAVIER UNIVERSITY MUSKETEERS (1-0) VS.
KENT STATE UNIVERSITY GOLDEN FLASHES (0-0)
FRIDAY, NOV. 12, 2021 (6:30 PM, ET)AT CINTAS CENTER (10,224)
TV, RADIO & LIVE STATS

Television: FS1 with play by-play from Chris Vosters and analysis from Dickey Simpkins.
Radio: 55KRC with play-by-play from Xavier Hall of Famer Joe Sunderman ('79) and analysis from Xavier all-time leading scorer and Hall of Famer Byron Larkin ('88). Xavier broadcast is also available on Sirius XM channel 387 and SXM App. 977.
Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com and fan stats at GoXavier.com.

[noteggs]

Great listen before a game. Interview with Ben Stanley. Sounds like a very grounded and good young man. Also, I’ll take his character in our program all day long!

https://twitter.com/xaviermbb/status/1458932552748744707?s=10

[GoMuskies]

X -8. Seems like tonight could be tough.

[xudash]

Great listen before a game. Interview with Ben Stanley. Sounds like a very grounded and good young man. Also, I’ll take his character in our program all day long!

https://twitter.com/xaviermbb/status/1458932552748744707?s=10

Class act.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

X -8. Seems like tonight could be tough.

Thankfully, we're in luck. Dickie Simpkins is calling the game.

[bobbiemcgee]

He did the Butler game.

[D-West & PO-Z]

X -8. Seems like tonight could be tough.

Thats down from -10 too from what I saw yesterday

[D-West & PO-Z]

Thankfully, we're in luck. Dickie Simpkins is calling the game.

No one worse in the business. Ugh

[paulxu]

Gotta do the sync up with Byron and Joe.

[Xville]

This is the time you take Scruggs out of the game. Horrible start by him

[paulxu]

They have scored 3 times in the paint on layups. UGH>

[IM4X]

Goodness do we suck.

[Xville]

Don’t worry steeles boyfriend is in the game. Instant offense

[IM4X]

Worth saying again.

Goodness we suck.

[xudash]

A brick by Hunter. I’ve never heard that before.

[IM4X]

Everyone is sucking but Nunge and Scruggs and now we took out Scruggs

[Strange Brew]

Boards may be the only way the bigs get the ball…

[Xville]

A brick by Hunter. I’ve never heard that before.

Good thing he gets the green light. Hell of a shooter

[whopper]

the depth in college hoops is unbelievable to me. It used to be you could write in the score of 85% of games ahead of time but with transfers and jucos and advanced freshmen there are no guaranteed mismatches anymore. This is clearly a good team and it looks like Odom is in to dog Sincere carey and i wish him luck.

[IM4X]

Good thing he gets the green light. Hell of a shooter
Maybe we’re seeing the reason he didn’t see eye to eye with his last coach.

[Xville]

Everyone is sucking but Nunge and Scruggs and now we took out Scruggs

He’s 2 of 7 with three turnovers. I would have sat him two minutes in.

[IM4X]

Hunter has to sit

[IM4X]

He’s 2 of 7 with three turnovers. I would have sat him two minutes in.
Who is playing better?

[xu82]

Are we having fun yet???

[RoseyMuskie]

This team better figure it out in a hurry. If not, it’s going to be a long, unenjoyable season.

[Xville]

Who is playing better?

Colby I guess…they all like to turn it over. I’m just saying I would have sat him early…he was not in the game, dunno if he was too amped up or what. But Steele doesn’t care what happens during a game, all he cares about is how the guys look in practice

[xu82]

This team better figure it out in a hurry. If not, it’s going to be a long, unenjoyable season.

GO BILLS!!!

X was my go to for enjoyable sports for so many years. Hoping we get back to those days.

[xudash]

the depth in college hoops is unbelievable to me. It used to be you could write in the score of 85% of games ahead of time but with transfers and jucos and advanced freshmen there are no guaranteed mismatches anymore. This is clearly a good team and it looks like Odom is in to dog Sincere carey and i wish him luck.

Great point. This Kent State team is a solid experienced squad.

This one is going to take some good coaching and certainly better execution.

[Xville]

Keep chucking up threes! 2-12 awesome shooters on this team…amazing in practice!

[RoseyMuskie]

Wasn’t Dwon’s shot revamped?

[noteggs]

Odom’s 3’s don’t look much different

[Xville]

2-15 from 3. Can we stop with the nonsense that Kunkel is a good shooter now?

[Xville]

One thing the team is doing pretty well is rebounding…so I do like the effort there! 10 offensive boards already is great

[kxblue]

I really dont think X can play any worse than these first 3 halves. But watching these halfcourt sets is painful. 4 guys on the perimeter, Miles down low. Run around and jack up a 3.

But Hunter just made that transition 3, unbelievably he has the greenlight in that situation. Thats kind of scary.

I dont think we need to beat a dead horse so just hope it turns around. We still have time, its a long season and defense is solid. But at this rate its not like replacing Miles with Freemantle will save us.

[Xville]

Scruggs with 4 turnovers. Simply inexcusable for a 5th year senior to be that careless with the basketball.

[kxblue]

X was 8-13 on 2-pt FG in that half. unfortunately they also shot 18 3s

[Xville]

18 effing 3s in a half. What the fuck

[xudash]

Well done Kunkel.

[Xville]

Lol awesome play steeles boyfriend

[Boro Muskie]

Let's see if there are any adjustments in the 2nd half, like no 3 pointers! This is tough to stomach...

[IM4X]

That last last possession with Kunkel losing the ball Out of bounds is all you need to know about this X team.

[IM4X]

Can we switch coaches for the second half… and maybe a few players too?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

2-15 from 3. Can we stop with the nonsense that Kunkel is a good shooter now?

He's been horrible. Not trying to blow up the board but maybe, can we get Tandy and see how he does?

Also, can anyone confirm the player identified on this year's team is the same Nate Johnson who played on last year's team? It is a common name and the guy known as Nate Johnson on this year's team looks like a different player.

Twelve turnovers in first half.

Do like the intensity of the defense.

Still too many threes.

[Xville]

18 threes since we are such good shooters and 13 turnovers.

[Xville]

He's been horrible. Not trying to blow up the board but maybe, can we get Tandy and see how he does?

Also, can anyone confirm the player identified on this year's team is the same Nate Johnson who played on last year's team? It is a common name and the guy known as Nate Johnson on this year's team looks like a different player.

Twelve turnovers in first half.

Do like the intensity of the defense.

Still too many threes.

I said it last game, Johnson doesn’t look right, like he looks sick or something…he definitely looks like he lost weight, which is really weird

[IM4X]

At least the half time conversation was enjoyable: Most memorable X moments. I think we know what the most forgettable years are going to be.

[Masterofreality]

Embarrassing.
Zero scheme. 18 jacked 3’s. 13 turnovers.
No accountability and a lack of discipline.
There is your Travis Steele open post offense. I’ve railed about this trash for over 3 years. It never changes.

[IM4X]

Embarrassing.
Zero scheme. 18 jacked 3’s. 13 turnovers.
No accountability and a lack of discipline.
There is your Travis Steele open post offense. I’ve railed about this trash for over 3 years. It never changes.

You can’t be a contender if you’re being coached by a pretender.

[Boro Muskie]

Have we ever had a mid season change in coaches?

[kxblue]

Is there a stats guy on the coaching staff? A lot of our players are over 50% on 2-pt field goals for their careers (Hunter, Kunkel) and below 33% on threes (Kunkel is right at 33% thanks to his crazy sophomore year at Belmont).

Just seems like none of the players are put into a position to succeed. We cant even figure out which players should take which shots.

On a plus note, the defense has been great this year. If a few things change on the offensive end, this team could be solid. After the last few years its tough to have faith that anything will change, but i refuse to believe the pieces arent there.

[Xville]

Playing a heck of a lot tougher this game than last so at least the effort is there tonight!

As I type this, I just saw an inside out play holy shit!!!

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Embarrassing.
Zero scheme. 18 jacked 3’s. 13 turnovers.
No accountability and a lack of discipline.
There is your Travis Steele open post offense. I’ve railed about this trash for over 3 years. It never changes.

I would describe the offense as directionless and non-purposeful. You need a bunch of really good talent to make that work, especially against a good team. Our talent, I now must admit, isn't what I thought.

[kxblue]

I would describe the offense as directionless and non-purposeful. You need a bunch of really good talent to make that work, especially against a good team. Our talent, I now must admit, isn't what I thought.

Im not sure we know what the talent is on this team. We have 2-BE 1st teamers and Jones. When you just sit and jack 3s, talent becomes irrelevant

[IM4X]

Not seeing the great defense some of you are seeing. Colby’s guy has blown by him twice for easy buckets. Not been terrible, but this is also not a BE level team they are playing.

[Xville]

Not seeing the great defense some of you are seeing. Kolby’s guy has blown by him twice for easy buckets. Not been terrible, but this is also not a BE level team they are playing.

I think effort is there which is saying something compared to last game. It’s been ok, not great.

[Xville]

Ohio state up 1 at half against Niagara

[IM4X]

Think Nunge has earned the starting spot over Miles for next game.

[Xville]

Alright here we go! Some more inside out! Come on boys!

[Xville]

Transition o love it…get me some more of that

[xudash]

Think Nunge has earned the starting spot over Miles for next game.

Inside me to Nunge was a great move.

Good on Hunter on D.

[xudash]

And then these guys cannot get out of their own way.

[Xville]

There we go Scruggs! Hell yeah!

[Xville]

Like a whole different team this second half…who are these guys?

[xudash]

Like a whole different team this second half…who are these guys?

I think they got tired of looking stupid and of getting pushed around by the team from Kent, Ohio.

[IM4X]

Where has this been all game. Scruggs and Jones now playing smart… attacking the basket and drawing the foul.

[Xville]

Steeles boyfriend did something naughty

[RoseyMuskie]

Amazing when they work it in and out.

[Xville]

Amazing how much better this team looks when they aren’t turning the ball over and jacking up 3s

[IM4X]

Gotta love Nunge- he is going to be key moving forward

[Xville]

Defense has been really damn good the last ten minutes. Refreshing!

[xudash]

It isn’t over yet, but credit where credit is due: adjustments appear to of been made in the second half and they are playing with focused intensity. This is a whole lot more enjoyable than the first half.

[noteggs]

Gotta love Nunge- he is going to be key moving forward

3 headed monster when Free comes back

[Xville]

3 headed monster when Free comes back

Shorter obviously but 4 when Stanley becomes healthy.

[Strange Brew]

Cup snake > Steele.

[Xville]

If defense is like this the rest of the season, then we got some good stuff coming

[RoseyMuskie]

Colby has been outstanding crashing the Offensive glass.

[JTG]

If defense is like this the rest of the season, then we got some good stuff coming

I still don't like having Miles guarding their best shooter

[kxblue]

Def a fun half to watch. Love Jones crashing the boards every time. Hopefully Steele bottles this up and X comes out like this against OSU!

[noteggs]

This is the confidence D Miles needs

[Xville]

Nun-Gee

[Xville]

Been waiting for something like that second half for what seems like years now. So satisfying

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

An amazing and from my point of view, unexpected second half turn-around. Intense defense and rebounding--something like 20 offensive rebounds tonight--strong free throw shooting and tremendous unselfishness. I don't want to go too far off the deep end but maybe this game marks the maturation of Travis Steele? I just don't recall him previously being able to identify needed changes and then get his team to follow.

Its just Kent State but they seemed like a talented, veteran team----not Big East worthy or anything but still a tough opponent.

[Xville]

I gotta give it to the coaching staff..the adjustments on o that were made in the second half were outstanding. Also, I don’t know what the hell they did or said to make them play defense like that that half, but keep it going!

[paulxu]

Glad we pulled this one out.
2 different halves.

[XUGRAD80]

Not a pretty game by any means, but I think X just out hustled Kent and played harder that 2nd half. Showed some good defense. 2-0 is better than 0-2 or 1-1, so there’s that. I sure wasn’t confident for the 1st 30 minutes that they were going to win.

[xu82]

I love what I see from some of our players! LOVE them! I just want to see them tighten up and look more…..composed. Is that kind enough? I didn’t mention Coaching at……oh, never mind…..

[Masterofreality]

Credit to Steele.
-Called more set plays in the second half.
-Used Nunge perfectly
- Saw Kunk was more effective that Nate.

Credit where credit is due. Good job in the 2nd half.

[noteggs]

Two things I liked from Steele with substitutions and play calling in second half

- Obviously we sucked from 3 in first but second we pounded the paint
- He knew Odom (for whatever reason) was struggling and kept him on the bench.

[IM4X]

How many 3s did X take during their 12 to 2 run from 8:39 to 3:49 in the second half to put the game away?

ZERO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please remember this before you let your players jack up 3s again in the OSU game Coach!

[Strange Brew]

I gotta give it to the coaching staff..the adjustments on o that were made in the second half were outstanding. Also, I don’t know what the hell they did or said to make them play defense like that that half, but keep it going!

No, it was cup snake. Ride the snake!

[RoseyMuskie]

Really thought the lineup of Scruggs, Jones, Hunter, Nunge, and (insert G) worked well.

[American X]

I was afraid that Scruggs passing the ball to the referee and Kunkel dribbling the ball off of his leg for the last shot of the half were going to be the plays of the game.

Credit the coaching brilliance of Travis Steele for the second half adjustments. Amazing what happens when you take the ball to the basket and play a little defense.

[xudash]

No, it was cup snake. Ride the snake!

Anyone who partially chalks this one up to the cup snake is aces in my book.

[bobbiemcgee]

Held them to 7 pts. in 10 minutes 2nd half. Defense=Offense.

Highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AfLOYZebvI

[X-Fan]

Pros:
- Scruggs & Jones are DUDES
- Many role players stepped up
- 2nd Half D & adjustments (and the genious move to stop turning over the ball so much)
- X won!

Cons:
- Turnovers
- Terrible start
- Odom was a liability on offense (no Kyky, though I’m sure mostly because of recent bronchitis)
- No offensive flow at times

Wasn’t Steele supposed to be an offensive mastermind?

Anyway, not trying to be negative, just have no interest in repeating the frustration of the past 2 years.

[Strange Brew]

Anyone who partially chalks this one up to the cup snake is aces in my book.

Sure, Steele and Co did and said things but cup snake is this team’s “Dues Hoc Vult”!.

[boozehound]

What a terrible first half, and a very solid second half. Credit Steele and the team for making the right adjustments.

Colby was great in the second half, as was Nunge. It would be really nice to get the Nate Johnson from last season back.

[xukeith]

Comparing box scores with OSU tonight vs. Niagara. OSU struggled as Niagara. Should we be surprised?

[bobbiemcgee]

Really thought the lineup of Scruggs, Jones, Hunter, Nunge, and (insert G) worked well.

Nunge had 11/6/2 blks in only 15 minutes.

[xu82]

What a terrible first half, and a very solid second half. Credit Steele and the team for making the right adjustments.

Colby was great in the second half, as was Nunge. It would be really nice to get the Nate Johnson from last season back.

Agreed on all of that. We can compete if we are that second half team. Colby looks like a guy I want to see more of!

[Strange Brew]

Agreed on all of that. We can compete if we are that second half team. Colby looks like a guy I want to see more of!

Putting aside cup snake’s glory, we’re not an any half team yet under Steele. For goodness sake Travis watch the second half and stop trying to run a perimeter offense. And please, know who is hot and let them play.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What a tale of 2 halves.

Scruggs is not only the heart and soul of this team (think we all knew that) but he also doesnt look close to eager of giving up his best player on the team crown to Colby anytime soon. Can't have those silly turnovers though.

Anyone seen Nate Johnson? Thought he had decided to play another year!? But seriously, hope it breaks out of whatever funk he is in.

Nunge with a really nice game, much better than the other night. Hope this is his norm. Need that inside presence.

Hunter does some nice things, shooting isn't one of them, needs to have more restraint.

Hopefully Odom turns it up, not being able to shoot, even a little, really limits him, but we saw what kind of driver/slasher he can be last year.

Credit to Steele and the staff for 2nd half adjustments.

Lastly, I am very glad I wasn't posting during the first half, what a beyond frustrating half!!!

[Masterofreality]

One last thing:

Very impressed with Dionte Miles’ defense. Dude was able to keep a point in front of him and moved his feet well. Gonna be an asset, especially if we ever play a 1-3-1 defense again.

[xukeith]

First half was embarrassing.

Glad remarkable changes happened for 2nd half.

As much as I enjoy scoring, I am very pleased with defense of Scruggs, Jones, Miles, and Nunge. If X can put 2 halves of strong defense, It will add to the ceiling of this team.

Kent State probably ran out of gas those last 10 minutes of the game.

I was concerned about Hunter and still am to a lesser degree. Any offense X can get out of him will be good

[paulxu]

Has only played 8 people in both games. Guess I thought we might see a few minutes from Edwards.
Maybe people are hurt though.

[profson]

Edwards is in the deer in the headlights stage as usually occurs with big men especially on the defensive end. No opportunity to use in these 2 lose games. Doesn’t mean anything.

[Muskie in dayton]

What a tale of 2 halves.

Scruggs is not only the heart and soul of this team (think we all knew that) but he also doesnt look close to eager of giving up his best player on the team crown to Colby anytime soon. Can't have those silly turnovers though.

Anyone seen Nate Johnson? Thought he had decided to play another year!? But seriously, hope it breaks out of whatever funk he is in.

Nunge with a really nice game, much better than the other night. Hope this is his norm. Need that inside presence.

Hunter does some nice things, shooting isn't one of them, needs to have more restraint.

Hopefully Odom turns it up, not being able to shoot, even a little, really limits him, but we saw what kind of driver/slasher he can be last year.

Credit to Steele and the staff for 2nd half adjustments.

Lastly, I am very glad I wasn't posting during the first half, what a beyond frustrating half!!!
Spot on. I’m hopeful that second half was not a fluke, but Travis actually recognizing the NBA style “lazy team play throw up a three” just doesn’t work, and we won’t have to endure watching that pain.

[bjf123]

Spot on. I’m hopeful that second half was not a fluke, but Travis actually recognizing the NBA style “lazy team play throw up a three” just doesn’t work, and we won’t have to endure watching that pain.

That’s why I don’t watch the NBA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xukeith]

If I were helping OSU, wouldn't they concern themselves with limiting Scruggs? Get him tired, get him in foul trouble and never leave him open.

[IM4X]

Spot on. I’m hopeful that second half was not a fluke, but Travis actually recognizing the NBA style “lazy team play throw up a three” just doesn’t work, and we won’t have to endure watching that pain.

Let’s hope so anyway. We have seen X in the past under Steele move away his lazy “Anyone open has the green light to shoot the 3” before - only to see the team return back to it at some future time. So we will see if he and the team really “get it” or if they have a short term memory.

This team’s strength right now is not 3 ball. Even if they did shoot it better, it is crucial that they are constantly attacking the rim and get to the line like they did in the second part of the second half. That is the secret sauce that will keep winning. Scruggs, Jones and Nunge just got to stick to doing what they were doing the last 9 minutes of the game last night and we will start looking much better.

[Lloyd Braun]

That’s why I don’t watch the NBA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you did you would know this is not accurate. The NBA is a long season with several meaningless games which dilutes interest. The skill they have and the action the coaches run is really impressive if you watch it though. The attitude of some of the players on and off the court leaves a lot to be desired. We view college sports as more “pure” but it is probably dirtier nowadays. I recommend giving the NBA another chance if you can find a team to latch onto. I recommend my Cavs! Well coached and motivated for now.

[bjf123]

I’ll admit I have not watched an NBA game this season. I did last year, and the year before, and the year before. Here’s what I see, not counting the playoffs when the effort does seem to increase. Whoever has the ball kind of walks it up the court facing minimal defense. There will be a pass or two before someone throws up a 3, or finds a big open under the basket. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Also, called damned travel. It’s embarrassing.


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[xu82]

I’ll admit I have not watched an NBA game this season. I did last year, and the year before, and the year before. Here’s what I see, not counting the playoffs when the effort does seem to increase. Whoever has the ball kind of walks it up the court facing minimal defense. There will be a pass or two before someone throws up a 3, or finds a big open under the basket. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Also, called damned travel. It’s embarrassing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many years ago we used to bribe the kids to be well behaved when traveling with the promise of an NBA game that night if they were good. “If you want to be see LeBron against the Celtics tonight….” We were in Charlotte one Tuesday night and we took our scrappy AAU point guard to a game. We had about $800 into tickets for 5 of us. Plus parking and concessions. Less than 5 minutes in he turns to me with a shocked look on his face and says “they’re not even TRYING!” It was a blessing, and the last time I ever paid to see the NBA.

I don’t even watch them on TV until it’s the playoffs, and usually the Finals. The season is too long, and the typical game lacks the intensity needed to keep my interest.

[XUGRAD80]

I know that everyone is giddy over the 2nd half, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that for the game overall X shot terribly…from 3, from the charity line, and overall. Looking at the stat sheet it’s really hard to see just how they did win. Without all the offensive rebounds, I doubt they would have. Shot selection and execution has still got a long way to go to get to where it needs to be to beat good teams.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I know that everyone is giddy over the 2nd half, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that for the game overall X shot terribly…from 3, from the charity line, and overall. Looking at the stat sheet it’s really hard to see just how they did win. Without all the offensive rebounds, I doubt they would have. Shot selection and execution has still got a long way to go to get to where it needs to be to beat good teams.

77.3% from the FT line is far from terrible. If they shot that for the whole season last year it would have been good for 26th in the country.

I dont find it hard at all to see how they won looking at the box score.

Kent State shot 35%, we made more FT's than they attempted, crushed them on the glass, and only committed 2 turnovers the second half. 9 blocks ain't bad either.

[Xville]

I know that everyone is giddy over the 2nd half, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that for the game overall X shot terribly…from 3, from the charity line, and overall. Looking at the stat sheet it’s really hard to see just how they did win. Without all the offensive rebounds, I doubt they would have. Shot selection and execution has still got a long way to go to get to where it needs to be to beat good teams.

In the 2nd half, the team was 11-13 from the ft line and 14-29 from the field….11-18 from 2. That’s pretty outstanding and that’s how they won. They also played pretty damn good d for most of that half. I’m not ready to anoint this team, but they play d like that and keep the shot selection they had the 2nd half, and this team will win a lot of games. They play like they did the first half (which is what most of steeles tenure has been) then it will be the same results as the previous three years.

[MarvAlbert]

we made more FT's than they attempted

I became a fan in the David West days and I remember this being the norm and not something to celebrate. I'm not trying to be a downer or an A-hole. I'm actually 33, but acting like I'm 65. I'll shut up now.

[XUGRAD80]

I did say if you look at the OVERALL stats….not just the 2nd half

OVERALL…they shot 40% and 20% from 3. They outscored Kent by only 4 points from the line, as Kent went 13-14. Kent outscored X from 3 by 6 points as they made 8 and X only made 6. X overall had more turnovers, 16 v 13. The DIFFERENCE was that X got more shots because of their 20 OFFENSIVE rebounds and made 6 more baskets for the game. BUT….most of the 2nd half Kent played a small lineup. X won’t have that luxury against the better and deeper teams that await. X will have difficulty getting those offensive rebounds against BE competition and better not rely on that happening to win games. They have got to shoot better, and that starts with running better sets and taking better shots.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I know that everyone is giddy over the 2nd half, but letÂ’s not lose sight of the fact that for the game overall X shot terriblyÂ…from 3, from the charity line, and overall. Looking at the stat sheet itÂ’s really hard to see just how they did win. Without all the offensive rebounds, I doubt they would have. Shot selection and execution has still got a long way to go to get to where it needs to be to beat good teams.

Since I taped the game I had the opportunity to view it again yesterday. The boys didn't play as bad of a first half as I originally thought. Shot selection was less the issue than just missing their looks. Kunkel had a couple go in and out as well as one waived off due to a Hunter offensive foul. Nate didn't appear to force---he was open but just didn't make them. His challenge going forward will be to find a way to shoot himself out of his early season slump without forcing shots. The team played as unselfishly in first half as the second and even delivered the ball down low a couple of times (not great but improvement over Niagara game). Not arguing they were super---just didn't appear to be as bad a shot selection team as first thought.

Turnovers were atrocious and it was points off turnovers by KSU that really made the difference before halftime. Also, KSU made a couple of three balls that themselves weren't great shots but went in. X cleaned up the turnovers after half and they simply must do better going forward.

I'm in the Xville camp. Not ready to anoint them but the improvement over Niagara was significant. Throughout the game this team played aggressive defense and unselfishly on offense. I celebrate that.

Because I'm only cautiously optimistic, I am watching closely for reversion to sloppy play. To compete in the B.E., in addition to getting back ZFree, Scruggs, Nate and Kunkel must contribute better three point shooting. We need to figure out how to best use Odom----he isn't going to become a better spot up shooter without substantial off season work. And Marv's comment about free throw shooting is spot on. Making our free throws must become an expectation. It wasn't last season or against Niagara so we celebrate it.

I'm unsure just how good a team is KSU so I don't wish to go overboard on the win. The B.E., whether one thinks it as strong as in past years or not, is still going to be a much tougher row to hoe.

Still, as one who has been critical of Steele for his in-game decisions, I have to recognize a job well done. I hope, hope, hope it reflects his permanent growth as a coach.

[XUGRAD80]

I was never a good 3 point shooter, even when wide open. However, from inside 15 foot I was a very good shooter. So even a wide open 3 was not a good shot for ME. The same seems be true for some of the X players. Just because a player is wide open, doesn’t mean that taking it is a GOOD shot. Or perhaps it’s that they aren’t using good form when taking those wide open shots. I’ve noticed A LOT of players taking wide open 3 point shots off balance or falling backwards. Not just X players, but players on other teams too. Then they miss them, and the average watcher says that it’s ok, it was a wide open shot, and they will make most of them. Just keep taking wide open shots. But it’s fools gold IMO. The players (and coaches) need to figure out what is a good shot for each player and then figure out how to take those shots primarily. They to stay away from taking the shots that they can’t make consistently during the flow of a game.

[A Fan]

I was never a good 3 point shooter, even when wide open. However, from inside 15 foot I was a very good shooter. So even a wide open 3 was not a good shot for ME. The same seems be true for some of the X players. Just because a player is wide open, doesn’t mean that taking it is a GOOD shot. Or perhaps it’s that they aren’t using good form when taking those wide open shots. I’ve noticed A LOT of players taking wide open 3 point shots off balance or falling backwards. Not just X players, but players on other teams too. Then they miss them, and the average watcher says that it’s ok, it was a wide open shot, and they will make most of them. Just keep taking wide open shots. But it’s fools gold IMO. The players (and coaches) need to figure out what is a good shot for each player and then figure out how to take those shots primarily. They to stay away from taking the shots that they can’t make consistently during the flow of a game.

As Always ….great insight and well said.

[kxblue]

It’s simple math and why the nba had changed so much (IMO less enjoyable to watch but if the goal is to win…)

If you shoot 50% from 2 (which is pretty close to avg in recent seasons after they have dropped the mid-range jumper) and over 33.3% from 3-pt range (almost all good teams are around 35 to 37%), you are still better off taking 3s assuming both are average options. Unfortunately for Steele, we have 3 players who average over 33.3% for their careers (Scruggs, Tandy, and Johnson). We don’t have an nba roster of shooters and in the nba not everyone (even guards) gets to shoot.

The fact that Kunkel’s shots lipped out is just part of his game. Outside of his sophomore year, he is well below 30% from 3 pt range but clearly has an effective drive, pass, layup game. Hunter and Nunge might scratch 33% in their best years. In the nba these guys would never, ever shoot unless the shot clock is at 0. They are key players on this team, just very often misused.

Jones exhibits this perfectly. He looks to be about a 33% shooter from 3 but takes far less 3s than 2s. He is incredibly efficient and he knows his game. Unfortunately this seems to be a product of his own iq and not our coaching staff. Not to mention he is younger and still has time to improve his shot.

It’s Steele’s job to get the players to understand their strengths, especially if we aren’t running sets. The 2nd half def looked much better, hopefully it continues.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I did say if you look at the OVERALL stats….not just the 2nd half

OVERALL…they shot 40% and 20% from 3. They outscored Kent by only 4 points from the line, as Kent went 13-14. Kent outscored X from 3 by 6 points as they made 8 and X only made 6. X overall had more turnovers, 16 v 13. The DIFFERENCE was that X got more shots because of their 20 OFFENSIVE rebounds and made 6 more baskets for the game. BUT….most of the 2nd half Kent played a small lineup. X won’t have that luxury against the better and deeper teams that await. X will have difficulty getting those offensive rebounds against BE competition and better not rely on that happening to win games. They have got to shoot better, and that starts with running better sets and taking better shots.

You also said they shot terribly from the FT line, which they did not.

I think we all agree they need to have better shot selection and make more shots. Let's hope X figured something out in the 2nd half and we see more of that performance moving forward than the first half. And obviously we have 3 rotational guys (including one of our best players) who are out that should help as well when they return.

[bjf123]

You also said they shot terribly from the FT line, which they did not.

If you were at the game and were checking the board above the students, you would have thought so. For most of the game, they had our 3 point % duplicated as our FT %. Based on that, we really sucked from the charity stripe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

If you were at the game and were checking the board above the students, you would have thought so. For most of the game, they had our 3 point % duplicated as our FT %. Based on that, we really sucked from the charity stripe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha, yikes. Yeah that would be bad!

[xukeith]

If any X fan wants some free entertainment, visit OSU bball board and read their analysis of the Niagara- OSU game. It makes Anti Steele posters look even more saintly by comparison.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/ohio-state-basketball/2021/11/126705/niagara-vs-ohio-state-game-thread

[IM4X]

I was never a good 3 point shooter, even when wide open. However, from inside 15 foot I was a very good shooter. So even a wide open 3 was not a good shot for ME. The same seems be true for some of the X players. Just because a player is wide open, doesn’t mean that taking it is a GOOD shot. Or perhaps it’s that they aren’t using good form when taking those wide open shots. I’ve noticed A LOT of players taking wide open 3 point shots off balance or falling backwards. Not just X players, but players on other teams too. Then they miss them, and the average watcher says that it’s ok, it was a wide open shot, and they will make most of them. Just keep taking wide open shots. But it’s fools gold IMO. The players (and coaches) need to figure out what is a good shot for each player and then figure out how to take those shots primarily. They to stay away from taking the shots that they can’t make consistently during the flow of a game.

This has been an ongoing issue for every team with Steele at the helm. Some of us have been posting about it since Goodin’s last season when he and several other poor 3 point shooters on that team’s roster would jack up 3s any time they were open behind the line. Steele’s response was that he did not have a problem with all of the threes and that eventually those shots would start falling (which they didn’t). He went on to say his players have the green light to shoot as long as they have a good look.

I was very critical of that response on this board, basically making your point. Just because you have a good look does not necessarily mean it is a good shot. If you suck at shooting threes, you usually don’t magically get better by taking more shots. You only end up hurting the team.

It was not at all a surprise that the team started playing significantly better when (as I mentioned a few posts ago) X stop taking threes and started aggressively attacking the basket more than half way through the second half. That’s when X went on a 12 to 2 run and took control of the game.


I may be the only one, but I am a bit concerned that Steele and the team will remember the second half play and forget how poorly they played on offense and defense in the first half. Let’s see if they come out attacking the basket next game or if the go back to falling in love with the 3.

[drudy23]

The key is and has always been balance for this program. We don't have the shooters to do what Villanova does.

Scoring in the low post is vital to our success. We don't have to be a "throw it in the post" team first, but it HAS to be a viable threat, or the results are going to be what we've seen the past 3 years. I hope they continue to execute this way.

If we play a somewhat balanced style (Paul and Colby still run this team), and we continue to play hard on defense, we should be fine. We fall back into bad habits, it won't be fine. And my definition of fine is making the tournament.

[XUGRAD80]

IM4X and Drudy….you guys are spot on.


I certainly HOPE that what we saw during the last 10 minutes of the last game is what we will see all the time in the future games. But I’m certainly not confident about that happening. It’s amazing to me that we can all see what they need to do, and even Steele and company have talked about their need to do some of these things, yet we have also seen them fail to do those things over and over again for 3 years. Beyond frustrating at this point.

[Xavier]

I found it interesting that with Joe and Byron steele said due to the turnovers in first half he called more set plays (“almost every time”-steele) in the second half. I know he likes giving the players freedom on offense but maybe he needs to be calling more set plays until the freedom results into what we saw in that second half.

[XUGRAD80]

I found it interesting that with Joe and Byron steele said due to the turnovers in first half he called more set plays (“almost every time”-steele) in the second half. I know he likes giving the players freedom on offense but maybe he needs to be calling more set plays until the freedom results into what we saw in that second half.

Bingo! The players have not shown the discipline on their own to figure out what is a good shot, and what isn't. It's been more like any open shot is a good shot for most of them...in their eyes.

[xudash]

Bingo! The players have not shown the discipline on their own to figure out what is a good shot, and what isn't. It's been more like any open shot is a good shot for most of them...in their eyes.

XG80 - - I like your analysis of what constitutes a good shot versus simply being open for a shot; who is better equipped with proper mechanics and confidence, etc. in order to make a shot if the open opportunity arises. I believe that is an important point to make.

With that as the backdrop, isn't rather fascinating, in this sport, what a difference an ounce of more or less pressure and a quarter or so inch makes. Isolated point: I replayed the 2nd half of the game last night (had no patience to watch the first half). During one time down the floor, Kunkel put up a 3-attempt and missed, but it was down in the rim and came out. I recall it being after the 3 he made in the corner to tie the game.

So, imagine that and what both the players and coaching staff have to consider in real time. Hindsight is easy. And, yes, we can't always expect an "Oklahoma" Performance. It's just that, in the moment, what is the right thing to do, if you as a player otherwise have practiced and have proven that you are good from behind the arc, generally.

Still, as was proven clearly beyond any doubt during the second half, taking Kent State inside via the drives and the strong passes to Nunge was the right thing to do. We took the momentum away from Kent State. We forced them to play our game, instead of Xavier chasing/reacting to them.

Freedom versus set plays. Good. I like it. It clearly shows that Steele is growing into the job. As has been pointed out here by others, let's hope he and team remember the lessons learned from this game. Kent State was a good early season test. Let's keep it going Thursday night.

[JTG]

Bingo! The players have not shown the discipline on their own to figure out what is a good shot, and what isn't. It's been more like any open shot is a good shot for most of them...in their eyes.

Well, if you tell your players that if they have an open shot they have the green light, then that's whats going to happen. So go with set plays till the first tv time out and see what happens. I have a feeling that they will be exceptionally motivated on Thursday and look for a good outing from the boys. And as in most "big games" an unlikely hero will emerge. Maybe KyKy with a 3 at the buzzer, or a flush by Miles.

[xukeith]

In Naji Marshall's last year at X, he often guarded the opponents' shooting guard with his 6'7 length. He was very good at defense. Might Steele want Miles to guard either the opposing scoring threat or be a head on a 1 3 1 zone? His guarding was impressive against Kent Stata.

I am still waiting and seeing if Nunge can be a scoring threat in the paint. I chalk up his scoring to being 7 foot around a bunch of smaller players. He doesn't look very reliable especially with him launching 3's.

Hope Freemantle is 100% sooner than later.

[94GRAD]

In Naji Marshall's last year at X, he often guarded the opponents' shooting guard with his 6'7 length. He was very good at defense. Might Steele want Miles to guard either the opposing scoring threat or be a head on a 1 3 1 zone? His guarding was impressive against Kent Stata.

I am still waiting and seeing if Nunge can be a scoring threat in the paint. I chalk up his scoring to being 7 foot around a bunch of smaller players. He doesn't look very reliable especially with him launching 3's.

Hope Freemantle is 100% sooner than later.

My memory is fading, how much scoring has Freemantle done with his back to the basket?

[drudy23]

In Naji Marshall's last year at X, he often guarded the opponents' shooting guard with his 6'7 length. He was very good at defense. Might Steele want Miles to guard either the opposing scoring threat or be a head on a 1 3 1 zone? His guarding was impressive against Kent Stata.

I am still waiting and seeing if Nunge can be a scoring threat in the paint. I chalk up his scoring to being 7 foot around a bunch of smaller players. He doesn't look very reliable especially with him launching 3's.

Hope Freemantle is 100% sooner than later.

I think he'd be really good at the head of a 1-3-1 zone - put it in the defensive playbook!!

[drudy23]

My memory is fading, how much scoring has Freemantle done with his back to the basket?

Not much, but he's capable. You just have to be a threat.

I think his biggest asset on offense is his ability to score at all 3 levels (post, 15 ft, 3 pointer). Very hard for any one defender to be able to guard all three. He's the closest to a stretch 4 we have, but doesn't shoot it consistently enough from 3 yet. It's the difference between him being a good college player to a a potential NBA prospect.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Bingo! The players have not shown the discipline on their own to figure out what is a good shot, and what isn't. It's been more like any open shot is a good shot for most of them...in their eyes.

Please stop equating a "missed" shot with a "bad" shot. They aren't the same and with your level of experience, I'm sure you know that already. We took a few too many threes in the first half. But with the exception of Odom's lone attempt (which will never be a good shot unless the clock is at zero) and Hunter, with whose game I am unfamiliar, I'm O.K. with Scruggs, Jones, Nate and yes, even Kunkel, taking open, unrushed, balanced shots beyond the arc. The team, as Drudy pointed out, lacked offensive balance in half number one. But, it was restored in the second half and that's because our coach and our players made the necessary adjustments. They did what they needed to do; they did what they are expected to do.

I am most definitely not a Steele apologist. It has been a very frustrating three years and this year is critical for the team and the coach. But, just for a nano-second, give pause to the continual negative evaluation you give this coach, the talent on this team, its decision-making, etc. We had a less than stellar first half and corrected that performance after the break. Maybe we continue in a positive direction. Maybe we relapse. We'll have to wait and see. But, appreciating the positive doesn't make me "giddy". I hope it makes me objective.

[XUGRAD80]

“taking open, unrushed, balanced shots beyond the arc.”

Generally speaking, I’d agree with you, but not always. For example, if someone comes down the court and has that shot available, BUT X has no one in rebounding position, I’d still consider it NOT a good shot to take. Or, if they take that shot in the 1st 5 seconds of the possession, I’d still consider it NOT a good shot to take. The exception would be for someone that is really hot at the time or when X has a big lead. Otherwise, a miss in that situation is as bad as a turnover and often leads to a runout and easy basket for the opposition. In close games (and X seems to play a lot of them) I think it’s much more important for X to try and work toward a high percentage shot where a miss won’t lead to an easy basket by the other team. If X had some really really good shooters from deep, I would feel differently, but they don’t. That’s not being negative, it’s being realistic and wanting X to play toward the strengths of the team and not toward the weaknesses. When they were most successful against K-ST, it was when they were able to control the offensive glass and get put back baskets. It wasn’t because of them taking/making 3 point shots. I really want the team to be successful and I don’t think that taking 25+ 3 point shots a game is the way for the team to be successful. It worked when they had the players Mack had in his last couple of years, but won’t work with these players IMO. I’m not saying that these players are bad players, I’m just saying that they have different strengths than being 3 point shooters. X should play toward those strengths.

[Lloyd Braun]

In Naji Marshall's last year at X, he often guarded the opponents' shooting guard with his 6'7 length. He was very good at defense. Might Steele want Miles to guard either the opposing scoring threat or be a head on a 1 3 1 zone? His guarding was impressive against Kent Stata.

I am still waiting and seeing if Nunge can be a scoring threat in the paint. I chalk up his scoring to being 7 foot around a bunch of smaller players. He doesn't look very reliable especially with him launching 3's.

Hope Freemantle is 100% sooner than later.

I have seen a few comments on Miles’ D… while good for a big man his size, he lacks lateral quickness to guard wings with dribble drive threat. Against Kent St he ended up sagging a few times to compensate after a switch on defense to Carry who proceeded to shoot and make a largely uncontested three on more than one occasion. I think the strategy to switch ball screens is good when he’s on the floor but to strategically place him on smaller guys would be asking for trouble IMO.

[IM4X]

“taking open, unrushed, balanced shots beyond the arc.”

Generally speaking, I’d agree with you, but not always. For example, if someone comes down the court and has that shot available, BUT X has no one in rebounding position, I’d still consider it NOT a good shot to take. Or, if they take that shot in the 1st 5 seconds of the possession, I’d still consider it NOT a good shot to take. The exception would be for someone that is really hot at the time or when X has a big lead. Otherwise, a miss in that situation is as bad as a turnover and often leads to a runout and easy basket for the opposition. In close games (and X seems to play a lot of them) I think it’s much more important for X to try and work toward a high percentage shot where a miss won’t lead to an easy basket by the other team. If X had some really really good shooters from deep, I would feel differently, but they don’t. That’s not being negative, it’s being realistic and wanting X to play toward the strengths of the team and not toward the weaknesses. When they were most successful against K-ST, it was when they were able to control the offensive glass and get put back baskets. It wasn’t because of them taking/making 3 point shots. I really want the team to be successful and I don’t think that taking 25+ 3 point shots a game is the way for the team to be successful. It worked when they had the players Mack had in his last couple of years, but won’t work with these players IMO. I’m not saying that these players are bad players, I’m just saying that they have different strengths than being 3 point shooters. X should play toward those strengths.

Very well said!

I just want to add that about the only 3 taken that is possibly worse than the quick one taken by a player who is not hot is the quick one taken from 10 feet behind the line by someone who is not already hot. I’m looking at you Kunkel.

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe the best shot of the night was Colby's cut across the middle between two defenders(who must have thought he was going in for a drive to the bucket) and the finger roll from 8 feet. I want to see a lot more of that. Thinking back to last year, Odom has a similar stop and pop from 7-8 feet. Scruggs also can get to the middle. Use our speed, quickness and take the higher percentage shot. Also works to suck in the defense for a pass underneath.

[UCGRAD4X]

The death of the midrange jumper has been long lamented. Odom, in particular, needs to utilize this when the defense dares him to hit from the outside. The drive to the basket (which he should do more often than not) and the step-back should be a staple of his arsenal until they start playing him closer and the do the drive around.

I am just using Odom as the best example but this is a strategy that needs to be more prominent in this teams repertoire.

[whopper]

Odom can jump over any player his size in the country (not exaggrating) and take a good clean shot..today that is considered a "bad" shot(contested mid range) but He has excellent elevation and release from 12-15 ft. We need more from him of course

[bleedXblue]

I'm really surprised by the start that Odom has had. Yeah, I know its 2 games.....but I just dont see him utilizing his skill set the way that he should to impact a game. He must be better at beating his defender off the dribble and creating mismatches or mid range jump shots for himself. He's never going to be a 3 PT sniper. He has to be a ball hawking defender and be a guy that leads the team in steals.....by a wide margin. The potential is there.........he just has to release it.

[xukeith]

Odom can jump over any player his size in the country (not exaggrating) and take a good clean shot..today that is considered a "bad" shot(contested mid range) but He has excellent elevation and release from 12-15 ft. We need more from him of course

I love Odom but defenses are always sagging on him and other 3 point subpar guards. He needs to give opponents a reason to guard him.
Dee Davis was good with assists and no more than 3 shots per game. I knew his strengths and weaknesses.

[drudy23]

I love Odom but defenses are always sagging on him and other 3 point subpar guards. He needs to give opponents a reason to guard him.

Exactly. There were multiple possessions where Kent State didnÂ’t even bother to guard him on the perimeter, and thatÂ’s not an exaggeration.

As of right now, heÂ’s a matchup play. He will play and be effective in fast paced open court games, but heÂ’s a liability in the half court, slow down methodical ones.

[XUMIOH12]

Exactly. There were multiple possessions where Kent State didnÂ’t even bother to guard him on the perimeter, and thatÂ’s not an exaggeration.

As of right now, heÂ’s a matchup play. He will play and be effective in fast paced open court games, but heÂ’s a liability in the half court, slow down methodical ones.

Yeah, Kent St had the guy who was "guarding" Odom just stand in the paint and prevent anyone else from driving. If other teams do that too, then he isn't going to play very much. Agree with the others saying he needs to be more aggressive driving to the midrange and seeing if he can create some space for himself or others.

[Final4]

He’s has a hole in his game and it’s going to be exploited by other teams. He has terrible mechanics. What has the coaching staff been doing for the past two years to help him develop an outside shot? Why didn’t the staff have him spend every minute available during the off season working with Brad Redford? Was Brad not available or not interested or didn’t the staff see that as an area in need of improvement?

[XUGRAD80]

He’s has a hole in his game and it’s going to be exploited by other teams. He has terrible mechanics. What has the coaching staff been doing for the past two years to help him develop an outside shot? Why didn’t the staff have him spend every minute available during the off season working with Brad Redford? Was Brad not available or not interested or didn’t the staff see that as an area in need of improvement?

Supposedly, he worked on it the whole off-season and was rumored to have vastly improved in that area. Supposedly.

[drudy23]

I will say that the form on the 15 footer he made was much different than his form from 3 point land.

His pull up jumper from 15 looked pretty decent. His 3 - not so much.

[Final4]

Supposedly, he worked on it the whole off-season and was rumored to have vastly improved in that area. Supposedly.

I don’t know who your source is but I don’t think they have a clue. He’s taken one 3-pointer this year and his form looked exactly the same and the ball came up about 6 feet short of the rim. He has had multiple open looks this year and has either been told not to shoot or lacks confidence is his shot and knows he shouldn’t be pulling the trigger. Doesn’t sound, or look, like someone who has made vast improvements.

[XUBison]

Supposedly, he worked on it the whole off-season and was rumored to have vastly improved in that area. Supposedly.

Hmmm… could the source of this info have an XH handle that rhymes with “Duperman”?

[MHettel]

Odom would be best used in a small lineup that can pressure on defense and try to get transition buckets. He's a top notch player in the open court, but a liability in the halfcourt set.

If he's playing in the halfcourt, we will need some shooters around him to keep the defense from totally collapsing.

My ideal lineup for Odom is this: Odom, Scruggs, Johnson, Jones, and Miles.

Not a very tall lineup, but decent length. All good defenders. Miles is the rim protector in case the others get out-muscled. Gotta RUN with this group (which Miles can do).

(Side note: Odom kind of looks like he's doing some break dancing when he shoots from 3...)

[drudy23]

Odom would be best used in a small lineup that can pressure on defense and try to get transition buckets. He's a top notch player in the open court, but a liability in the halfcourt set.

If he's playing in the halfcourt, we will need some shooters around him to keep the defense from totally collapsing.

My ideal lineup for Odom is this: Odom, Scruggs, Johnson, Jones, and Miles.

Not a very tall lineup, but decent length. All good defenders. Miles is the rim protector in case the others get out-muscled. Gotta RUN with this group (which Miles can do).

(Side note: Odom kind of looks like he's doing some break dancing when he shoots from 3...)

This.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Odom would be best used in a small lineup that can pressure on defense and try to get transition buckets. He's a top notch player in the open court, but a liability in the halfcourt set.

If he's playing in the halfcourt, we will need some shooters around him to keep the defense from totally collapsing.

My ideal lineup for Odom is this: Odom, Scruggs, Johnson, Jones, and Miles.

Not a very tall lineup, but decent length. All good defenders. Miles is the rim protector in case the others get out-muscled. Gotta RUN with this group (which Miles can do).

(Side note: Odom kind of looks like he's doing some break dancing when he shoots from 3...)

The best is when Brando thought Odom injured himself (while shooting a 3) the first time he called a Xavier game last year. I was like, nah, thats just his shot!

[UCGRAD4X]

The best is when Brando thought Odom injured himself (while shooting a 3) the first time he called a Xavier game last year. I was like, nah, thats just his shot!

He could replace Quick-change as halftime entertainment with that shot.

[94GRAD]

He could replace Quick-change as halftime entertainment with that shot.

A spot is open, he died of *Covid in March of last year.

*Waits for, did he really die of Covid or was it something else but he tested positive question.