Ackerman on new Fox TV Contract

[xudash]

Dana O'Neil
@DanaONeilWriter
Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman told The Athletic that with the FOX deal expiring in 2025, she will ask her presidents to at least examine expansion. "That's in the back of our minds,'' she said. "What school helps with our basketball aspirations?"
3:33 PM · Oct 13, 2021

"School". Singular. One School.

If you take that literally, then any expansion involving multiple mid-majors being added is out of the question. Reading between the lines - and that's all we can do at this point - suggests that they have a very specific school in mind.

Gee, I wonder which school it could be.

Remember, assuming the Big East has proven its value as a content property, which I believe anyone in their right mind would conclude is the case, then Fox and the Big East will come at this from a position of strength, and that means that the addition of any school MUST be accretive to the existing contract. It's all about quality over quantity. You would want it to be that way anyway, but we have the luxury of that absolutely being the case for this time around. We are not in a crisis/backfill mode.

[Xville]

Unless it’s a former Big East team like a Syracuse, Pitt or another team up that way, no thanks. Not that any of those teams are ever coming back.

I’m assuming you mean notre dame (maybe I’m wrong), I’m probably in the minority but fuck that and their fan base. Don’t see why they would leave their acc arrangement anyway.

[MHettel]

Loaded post here...

I've been speaking out loud on this board for at least 5 years about different ways that the BE could somehow add Gonzaga. The reality is that the one the one thing you just CANT do is simply add Gonzaga. The logistics and issue are just insurmountable. You cant ask Gonzaga to take 11 road trips of 2500+ miles each. The geography and distance is just to much to overcome.

If you want to "build" your way out West, then you would need to add a total of 5 teams (taking the league to 16 total), which substantially shift the league footprint to the West. Dayton, SLU, Gonzaga, St. Mary, and one other would be a start. but that's still a lot of real estate between Omaha and Spokane....

If the idea is ONLY to add what you want (Gonzaga) without having to take on things you may not want (4 other teams), then this is a straight up non-starter. If thats the mindset, then this should be a quick discussion with the league presidents.

The fact that it's been publicly discussed by the commish is meaningfull....

but being a "good idea" is not enough. You have to be able to execute upon it....

[xukeith]

What other D1 University with no football program exists on the map?

Loyola Chicago?

[MHettel]

Unless it’s a former Big East team like a Syracuse, Pitt or another team up that way, no thanks.

I’m assuming you mean notre dame (maybe I’m wrong), I’m probably in the minority but fuck that and their fan base. Don’t see why they would leave their acc arrangement anyway.

I didnt think about ND, but frankly I have considered their involvement in the past. Lets just say IF the BE could bring in ND, then would it not suddenly put FOX in a position to try to nab their football contract from NBC? I could definitely see FOX using BE basketball as a way to create leverage to get ND Football.

[Xville]

I didnt think about ND, but frankly I have considered their involvement in the past. Lets just say IF the BE could bring in ND, then would it not suddenly put FOX in a position to try to nab their football contract from NBC? I could definitely see FOX using BE basketball as a way to create leverage to get ND Football.

If they did which I don’t see why nd would, then yeah I could see fox trying to nab the contract. I like the way the league is right now and hope they never expand it unless it’s Syracuse or Pitt. thought the addition of UConn was outstanding to bring back some of that msg original big East magic. F gonzaga and f notre dame

[xudash]

I didnt think about ND, but frankly I have considered their involvement in the past. Lets just say IF the BE could bring in ND, then would it not suddenly put FOX in a position to try to nab their football contract from NBC? I could definitely see FOX using BE basketball as a way to create leverage to get ND Football.

Very creative. I hadn't thought of the idea of using BE Basketball as a Trojan Horse play for grabbing ND's NBC football contract.

[xukeith]

here are some other candidates.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_non-football_programs

[xudash]

Loaded post here...

I've been speaking out loud on this board for at least 5 years about different ways that the BE could somehow add Gonzaga. The reality is that the one the one thing you just CANT do is simply add Gonzaga. The logistics and issue are just insurmountable. You cant ask Gonzaga to take 11 road trips of 2500+ miles each. The geography and distance is just to much to overcome.

If you want to "build" your way out West, then you would need to add a total of 5 teams (taking the league to 16 total), which substantially shift the league footprint to the West. Dayton, SLU, Gonzaga, St. Mary, and one other would be a start. but that's still a lot of real estate between Omaha and Spokane....

If the idea is ONLY to add what you want (Gonzaga) without having to take on things you may not want (4 other teams), then this is a straight up non-starter. If thats the mindset, then this should be a quick discussion with the league presidents.

The fact that it's been publicly discussed by the commish is meaningfull....

but being a "good idea" is not enough. You have to be able to execute upon it....

Dayton is absolutely a straight up non-starter for strategic reasons. I don't know how else to put it. This isn't the friendlier confines of the mid-90's when we saved them by helping navigate them into the A10. Xavier's Big East Conference affiliation is a major strategic advantage for Xavier, and it most likely is about to become more significant as the Fox TV agreement is expected to INCREASE with respect to its per school payouts. Dayton does not have an ice cube's chance in hell of sniffing the Big East.

Expanding upon that, though I noted it in my original post I'll reiterate it here: any addition to the Big East must add financial value to the overall package; it must be accretive. There isn't a mid-major presently on the map that can pull that off.

Frankly, unless the highly unlikely but very creative Fox play for ND football came to fruition, I think they're thinking about making Gonzaga work on its own. Syracuse is out of the question, due to the value of ACC affiliation for them. Same with ND. Same with Pitt. Football schools will be about football until they can't make it work any longer. Syracuse may have to think along those lines down the road - in terms of believing they have any shot at competing at the highest level - but not now. Same for Pitt. ND will never have to worry about that, though it likely won't be able to truly compete for a NC moving forward.

It is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of years. Best case: a new 10-year'ish agreement with Fox is struck wherein the per school payout is at least $7+ million per year.

[MHettel]

Dayton is absolutely a straight up non-starter for strategic reasons. I don't know how else to put it. This isn't the friendlier confines of the mid-90's when we saved them by helping navigate them into the A10. Xavier's Big East Conference affiliation is a major strategic advantage for Xavier, and it most likely is about to become more significant as the Fox TV agreement is expected to INCREASE with respect to its per school payouts. Dayton does not have an ice cube's chance in hell of sniffing the Big East.

Expanding upon that, though I noted it in my original post I'll reiterate it here: any addition to the Big East must add financial value to the overall package; it must be accretive. There isn't a mid-major presently on the map that can pull that off.

Frankly, unless the highly unlikely but very creative Fox play for ND football came to fruition, I think they're thinking about making Gonzaga work on its own. Syracuse is out of the question, due to the value of ACC affiliation for them. Same with ND. Same with Pitt. Football schools will be about football until they can't make it work any longer. Syracuse may have to think along those lines down the road - in terms of believing they have any shot at competing at the highest level - but not now. Same for Pitt. ND will never have to worry about that, though it likely won't be able to truly compete for a NC moving forward.

It is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out over the next couple of years. Best case: a new 10-year'ish agreement with Fox is struck wherein the per school payout is at least $7+ million per year.

I understand that XU wouldnt want to see UD in the BE. But if TAMU was willing to allow UT to join the SEC, well I think XU's objection to UD could be resolved.

I dont see ANY WAY that Gonzaga can join the BE without adding teams to expand the footprint West. That distance just CANNOT be bridged. I'd love to see it happen....but it wont / cant.

[xudash]

I understand that XU wouldnt want to see UD in the BE. But if TAMU was willing to allow UT to join the SEC, well I think XU's objection to UD could be resolved.

I dont see ANY WAY that Gonzaga can join the BE without adding teams to expand the footprint West. That distance just CANNOT be bridged. I'd love to see it happen....but it wont / cant.

The Longhorns bring perceived significant value to the SEC. They are the bigger brand, awaiting entry.

UD is in no position to bring significant value to the Big East as a standalone addition. In the Big East’s case, Xavier is the bigger brand and is already a part of the BE.

Beyond that, there is way much more similarity between UD and XU, and the distance between them is significantly less than the distance between TAMU and UT.

Dayton is and will remain boxed out.

Your point about Gonzaga is fair. Of course, if the payout goes from between 7,000,000 to 9,000,000 per school, they may put up with the hassle.

[Xville]

Donit know if I’d be in favor of it or not but one that may make since is SLU. Decent sized market, basketball only, culturally very similar to most of the league and geographically connects quite a few of the schools..

[bobbiemcgee]

I think the Big East would take ND in a hot minute. Makes sense geographically and playing the Irish @ the Cintas Center every year sounds great to me. Nioe road trip too. And I don't think they would scoff at 7 m a yr.

[JTG]

If they did which I don’t see why nd would, then yeah I could see fox trying to nab the contract. I like the way the league is right now and hope they never expand it unless it’s Syracuse or Pitt. thought the addition of UConn was outstanding to bring back some of that msg original big East magic. F gonzaga and f notre dame
Don't be stupid. Both schools bring eyeballs. but Gonzaga is just too far away. ND , and the possibilityof a bidding war between FOX and NBC is interesting. And they are right in the middle of the BE geography.

[STL_XUfan]

What other D1 University with no football program exists on the map?

Loyola Chicago?

kansas

[Xville]

Don't be stupid. Both schools bring eyeballs. but Gonzaga is just too far away. ND , and the possibilityof a bidding war between FOX and NBC is interesting. And they are right in the middle of the BE geography.

I’m not stupid, I’m very aware that they bring eyeballs. I can’t stand either school and notre dame and their pompous attitude can keep their shit in the acc.

[xudash]

Imagine us with a payout per school of not less than $7 million per year for a new 10 year term. It just seems as though that would breed strength and sustainability for all of us during a very critical and transitional period for media technology, not to mention changes with collegiate athletics and in higher education.

If that means bringing in the Irish or the Zags, then so be it.

[xudash]

Donit know if I’d be in favor of it or not but one that may make since is SLU. Decent sized market, basketball only, culturally very similar to most of the league and geographically connects quite a few of the schools..

I believe it is fair to say that SLU cannot deliver the required financial impact for a new media agreement.

If expansion happens, it will be about bringing in a program that is immediately impactful. It will not be about bringing in a mid-major program that builds up as a result of having an affiliation with the Big East.

[paulxu]

I'm probably on an island here, but I'd hate to lose the round robin.

[JTG]

I think we all like the round robin. But the BE is big business. And ND is Really big business. They might consider leaving the ACC, for all but football, if it means they could parlay a move to BE into a Fox/ NBC bidding war for football rights. Attendance at ND has seriously fallen off. They are offering bargain ticket prices for many of their games. Sometimes throwing in free parking which is usually $40. Like em or hate em, they're good for business. Especially tv business.

[bjf123]

I'm probably on an island here, but I'd hate to lose the round robin.

Guess I’m on your island. However, money talks and big money talks even louder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xubrew]

The current Notre Dame football contract is $15 million per year for what amounts to seven home games. I don't think Fox is trying to snag that. Neither is anyone else except for NBC.

[xubrew]

I'm probably on an island here, but I'd hate to lose the round robin.

I agree, but how would this be for a concept?

-Two Divisions, Six teams each (I don't know how you'd divide them up, but for the sake of the concept it doesn't matter)

WEST:

Creighton
Xavier
DePaul
Marquette
Butler
Bellarmine - (Who I know it won't be, but who I intentionally picked for the same of this post so people could focus more on the concept and not the 12 team)


EAST:

Nova
Georgetown
Johnnies
Hall
Providence
UConn


THE FORMAT (now bare with me because there are two parts to it):

-PART 1: Teams play a home and home within their division, and a single game against the teams in the other division for 16 games.

-PART 2: For the final two games of the season, teams are put into groups of 4. (1st place East, 1st place West, 2nd place East, 2nd place West), (3rd place East, 3rd place West, 4th place East, 4th place West), and so on...

-You play the two teams in your group that are not in your division for the 17th and 18th game.


I like the round robin. My preference would have been for the Big East to not add UConn and to just stay at ten. But one thing this proposed format does each and every year is deliver a climactic grand finale to the regular season. Sometimes during a round robin the slot machine comes up with all sevens and you have a game at the end of the season that decides first place. But...not always. This way, you'd almost ALWAYS have games of national interest between ranked teams, teams fighting for #1 seeds, and teams fighting for first place overall in the Big East. The second group would likely also be intriguing because that would also likely have bubble teams fighting for spots.

The downside is that the sights of the games would have to be predetermined for event management purposes. So, for the two season finale games, the East and West divisions would have to know before the season started if they had a home game on that date or not. So, it would have to say..

@ west division opponent
H vs west division opponent.

This would mean possibly playing a team twice on the road and not at all at home, or vice versa. But, whatever. I still think it's a neat idea, and it's something no other league at the level of the Big East has ever done.


That's 12 schools, 18 conference games each. If my math is right, that's 108 total conference regular season games, and 11 conference tournament games opposed to 90 conference games and 9 conference tournament games in the ten team round robin format. It also guarantees high stakes and high interest games in March, when the sport is at its peak and when the ratings are the highest. I can totally understand why that would be appealing to Fox, and why the commish might want the prezzes to consider a 12th.


Now...back to discussing who the 12th team might be. And...I SERIOUSLY doubt it will be Notre Dame.

[Xuperman]

I haven't heard this angle anywhere. Here is how adding Gonzaga could work. Schedule 3 week long road trips. Example- fly into Newark on Sunday, play the Pirates on Monday night. Bus down to DC for the Hoyas on Thursday night, then bus to play Nova on Sunday afternoon. Same scenario a few weeks later using NYC as the hub....SJU, UConn, PC.

A few weeks later, X, BU, MU. Then make solo trips to Omaha and Chicago to round out the conference road schedule. The Holiday break would be a perfect time to schedule one of these road trips. You could also make 1 extra trip by doing XU/BU then to Chicago for Marquette and DePaul.

There would be ample down time to stay on top of school work if things were arranged properly.

MLB has been doing this for decades. Not perfect but it would certainly be doable.

[STL_XUfan]

-PART 2: For the final two games of the season, teams are put into groups of 4. (1st place East, 1st place West, 2nd place East, 2nd place West), (3rd place East, 3rd place West, 4th place East, 4th place West), and so on...

-You play the two teams in your group that are not in your division for the 17th and 18th game.




I do not like this idea for the big east, as the overall strength of the conference is high enough that the top of our league normally do not need the assistance with seeding, and could have the opposite impact.

However, I think the A10 and other like conferences (usually multi-bid, but not always) should adopt this idea to ensure the top of their conference teams are getting enough shots at quality wins.

[xubrew]

I haven't heard this angle anywhere. Here is how adding Gonzaga could work. Schedule 3 week long road trips. Example- fly into Newark on Sunday, play the Pirates on Monday night. Bus down to DC for the Hoyas on Thursday night, then bus to play Nova on Sunday afternoon. Same scenario a few weeks later using NYC as the hub....SJU, UConn, PC.

A few weeks later, X, BU, MU. Then make solo trips to Omaha and Chicago to round out the conference road schedule. The Holiday break would be a perfect time to schedule one of these road trips.

There would be ample down time to stay on top of school work if things were arranged properly.

MLB has been doing this for decades. Not perfect but it would certainly be doable.

There is also the issue of the other 21 Big East sports. I suppose you could do something similar for all of them, but it is a bit of a challenge.

I don't think it will be Gonzaga either. I suppose it could be. I certainly wouldn't complain if it were. I just don't think it will be. I don't know that for a fact, but if I were in a contest where if I guess the 12th team I'd win a thousand bucks, Gonzaga would not be my guess.


A little outside the box, but what about Memphis??

They bring both a brand and a market, which would probably mean more eyeballs for TV. They're also in a conference that is, to put it mildly, totally falling apart.

I get that there is an issue with their football interests needing to be met. But based on what's left of the AAC, those interests probably won't be met by staying there anyway, and their basketball interest sure as hell wouldn't be either. The league just recently signed a billion dollar deal with ESPN. The thing is, ESPN had an out in that contract if either Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, or Houston left. It specifically named those four schools. If ONE of them left, ESPN could back out of the deal. ALL FOUR OF THEM LEFT!! So, that deal is probably shot.

With UConn, UMass, and Liberty also not having conference affiliation right now, IF they wanted to those four schools could create six fixture games just by agreeing to play each other home and home each year. I know that's not typically done in football, but neither is being an indy these days. That would at least provide all four of them six fixture games, and help each of them meet their football interests. Being a full Big East member and an indy in football with a scheduling agreement with three other Indys could probably get them a more lucrative media deal than staying in the AAC would, so it isn't TOO crazy to think that Memphis is at least a possibility.

No one else besides Memphis really interests me other than Gonzaga, who I don't think it will end up being. I don't think the Big East really needs a 12th team. I really didn't think they needed an 11th team either, but...whatever. SLU is in the Saint Louis market, but they don't have the brand to deliver the full market the way Memphis does. Markets in and of themselves don't really mean anything. If they did, then the Horizon League would be burning up the TV ratings. I just can't think of another school that makes the Big East anything bigger than what it already is. So...what's the point in adding anyone else?

[xubrew]

I do not like this idea for the big east, as the overall strength of the conference is high enough that the top of our league normally do not need the assistance with seeding, and could have the opposite impact.

However, I think the A10 and other like conferences (usually multi-bid, but not always) should adopt this idea to ensure the top of their conference teams are getting enough shots at quality wins.

I don't particularly "like" it either. For me it wasn't so much about seeding (although I don't think it would hurt) as it was about creating showcase games for TV at a point in the season when the sport is at its peak interest. Power conferences that end up with big finales in the final weeks of the season tend to get good ratings for those games. I was just trying to come up with a way to basically try and manufacture a big finale every year. But, truth be told, I liked the league better when it was just a ten team round robin.

[Xuperman]

I just can't think of another school that makes the Big East anything other than what it already is. So...what's the point in adding anyone else?

Because evidently Val Ackerman wants to.

As far as concerns about Gonzaga and their other sports, they would have to stay in the WCC for the obvious financial/logistic reasons. The Zags would have to be basketball only. Since $$$ is the motivation for it anyway (thru an vastly enhanced TV contract that would come with the Gonzaga brand). That could be easily negotiated.

[xubrew]

Because evidently Val Ackerman wants to.

As far as concerns about Gonzaga and their other sports, they would have to stay in the WCC for the obvious financial/logistic reasons. The Zags would have to be basketball only. Since $$$ is the motivation for it anyway (thru an vastly enhanced TV contract that would come with the Gonzaga brand). That could be easily negotiated.

I don't think there is any chance in hell the WCC would agree to that. Unless Gonzaga agreed to schedule five WCC opponents a year in basketball and play all those games on the road, I don't think there is any way they'd be that accommodating. I mean, why would they be??

[xubrew]

Because evidently Val Ackerman wants to.

As far as concerns about Gonzaga and their other sports, they would have to stay in the WCC for the obvious financial/logistic reasons. The Zags would have to be basketball only. Since $$$ is the motivation for it anyway (thru an vastly enhanced TV contract that would come with the Gonzaga brand). That could be easily negotiated.

Well, that in and of itself doesn't mean it has to happen, or that it will happen. I haven't seen the Big East bylaws, but in general a conference must have more than 75% of its members vote on expansion, both whether or not to do it and who to invite. In the case of the Big East, that's 9 out of 11 members.

I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing the only reason she is putting this out there is because of Fox. They don't have a vote, but they can certainly influence the vote by saying "we want a 12th member, and these are the schools we think you should consider. Oh, and BTW, once you do that, THEN we'll talk about the new TV deal!"

If that's what's happening, then Gonzaga would pretty much check all the boxes that Fox would want. But, that does present some logistical challenges. And the deal Gonzaga has right now is pretty damn good! I'm not saying that getting a better one with another conference is out of the question, but they're not necessarily looking to leave. Doesn't mean they wouldn't. It just means that I believe that right now, they are at the very least EXTREMELY content with their situation. They get a lion's share of the NCAA Tournament money that the league makes, a lion's share of the media deal that the conference has, they basically get to keep lion's share of the media money from the OOC games they play, and they have the luxury of basically being able to hand pick their OOC schedule. They were the national runner up last year. They've been to two recent Final Fours. I don't think they're sitting around thinking that they're painted into any sort of a corner right now.

So...who else checks those boxes??

[MHettel]

I agree, but how would this be for a concept?

-Two Divisions, Six teams each (I don't know how you'd divide them up, but for the sake of the concept it doesn't matter)

WEST:

Creighton
Xavier
DePaul
Marquette
Butler
Bellarmine - (Who I know it won't be, but who I intentionally picked for the same of this post so people could focus more on the concept and not the 12 team)


EAST:

Nova
Georgetown
Johnnies
Hall
Providence
UConn


THE FORMAT (now bare with me because there are two parts to it):

-PART 1: Teams play a home and home within their division, and a single game against the teams in the other division for 16 games.

-PART 2: For the final two games of the season, teams are put into groups of 4. (1st place East, 1st place West, 2nd place East, 2nd place West), (3rd place East, 3rd place West, 4th place East, 4th place West), and so on...

-You play the two teams in your group that are not in your division for the 17th and 18th game.


I like the round robin. My preference would have been for the Big East to not add UConn and to just stay at ten. But one thing this proposed format does each and every year is deliver a climactic grand finale to the regular season. Sometimes during a round robin the slot machine comes up with all sevens and you have a game at the end of the season that decides first place. But...not always. This way, you'd almost ALWAYS have games of national interest between ranked teams, teams fighting for #1 seeds, and teams fighting for first place overall in the Big East. The second group would likely also be intriguing because that would also likely have bubble teams fighting for spots.





Brew- I'll give you a 10 for creativity. But this approach is flawed, and can produce results you have not considered.

Example- Lets say after 16 games, the West is a tight race and the top 2-3 teams are separated by just a game or so (11-5,10-6,10-6)with the #4 team being a game behind them. I'll assume some tiebreaker comes into play to "seed" the top 4 appropriately. But in the East, its 2 teams at the very top, (14-2,13-3) and then the others hovering around .500 or lower. This can happen.

So, you create these groups of 4, and then the top 2 seeds in the West get their asses kicked by the top teams in the East. But #3 in the West beats #3 &#4 in the East, and therefore they suddenly become the winner of the West. That would make no sense.

Back to the drawing board.

[MHettel]

I haven't heard this angle anywhere. Here is how adding Gonzaga could work. Schedule 3 week long road trips. Example- fly into Newark on Sunday, play the Pirates on Monday night. Bus down to DC for the Hoyas on Thursday night, then bus to play Nova on Sunday afternoon. Same scenario a few weeks later using NYC as the hub....SJU, UConn, PC.

A few weeks later, X, BU, MU. Then make solo trips to Omaha and Chicago to round out the conference road schedule. The Holiday break would be a perfect time to schedule one of these road trips. You could also make 1 extra trip by doing XU/BU then to Chicago for Marquette and DePaul.

There would be ample down time to stay on top of school work if things were arranged properly.

MLB has been doing this for decades. Not perfect but it would certainly be doable.

It may seem like it works on paper, but in practice it's a disaster. Flying from West 2 East loses 3 hours on the way there. And Newark is probably 6 hours from Spokane. They need to leave at 8 in the Morning Sunday to get to Newark by 5 or 6 pm. Then it's 3 games in 6 days with 2 Bus rides involved. You need a weeks worth of luggage, and your school work. 3 different hotels, maybe 2. They fly back after a game on Sunday (you get the 3 hours back).

And you have to do that 3 times. And add in 2 more overnight trips on top of that. Totally unworkable.

Could it be done? YES! Would anyone in their right mind sign up for this arrangement on a permanent basis. NO!!!

Tell you what, I'd LOVE to play Gonzaga in their next home game after these grueling trips.

[xubrew]

Brew- I'll give you a 10 for creativity. But this approach is flawed, and can produce results you have not considered.

Example- Lets say after 16 games, the West is a tight race and the top 2-3 teams are separated by just a game or so (11-5,10-6,10-6)with the #4 team being a game behind them. I'll assume some tiebreaker comes into play to "seed" the top 4 appropriately. But in the East, its 2 teams at the very top, (14-2,13-3) and then the others hovering around .500 or lower. This can happen.

So, you create these groups of 4, and then the top 2 seeds in the West get their asses kicked by the top teams in the East. But #3 in the West beats #3 in the East, and therefore they suddenly become the winner of the West. That would make no sense.

Back to the drawing board.

No, I considered that. I just don't think it would matter much. Unless you play 22 games (which the Horizon League is actually doing), you're not going to have a balanced schedule with a 12 team format. No bloated power conference does. If you're going to sacrifice the balanced double round robin for the sake of TV, then go all in on the TV.

While I appreciate the 10 for creativity, it was an idea that I kind of borrowed from the Pac 12 and SEC when they had 12 team formats and played 18 game schedules. 16 of the 18 games were scheduled as if there were two division as far as who the home & homes were. The other two games were basically determined by which matchups they felt would be most appealing to TV, and then just lumped them all into one division even though none of the schedules were balanced. I just figured, well if TV wants big games for the other two home and homes, then let's do it at a time of year when it will get the highest ratings, and let's do it in a way that will assure that TV gets good games. Who cares if it's not balanced and/or if teams end up lower in the standings because they had to play tougher opponents? We've already decided to toss that aside. Sometimes what looks like a good game before the season starts ends up being a total clunker. And...that was the basis for the idea. Those years where you thought "Man, it sucks that these two teams from different divisions played home and home instead of those two teams."

Or...just stay at 11. I'd vote for that.

[XUBison]

Because evidently Val Ackerman wants to.

As far as concerns about Gonzaga and their other sports, they would have to stay in the WCC for the obvious financial/logistic reasons. The Zags would have to be basketball only. Since $$$ is the motivation for it anyway (thru an vastly enhanced TV contract that would come with the Gonzaga brand). That could be easily negotiated.

Can we just have a sticky thread right up at the top of the forum where the topic line reads, “There is no basketball-only option. There is no basketball-only option. There is no basketball-only option…”?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

No reason to only consider catholic institutions now that UCONN has rejoined. If objective is geographical balance, why not consider the Shockers?

[JTG]

No reason to only consider catholic institutions now that UCONN has rejoined. If objective is geographical balance, why not consider the Shockers?
Because they don't move the needle. Only the Zags and ND move the needle and neither seem too likely. So it might have to be FOX TV call..

[MHettel]

No reason to only consider catholic institutions now that UCONN has rejoined. If objective is geographical balance, why not consider the Shockers?

If you subscribe to the idea that you would have to move the footprint West to grab the Zags, then the Shockers would actually be a really good choice to add.

But not by themselves. Only as a throw in if you can get the Zags.

[paulxu]

????????????

https://twitter.com/SLU_Billikens/status/1449156060183420929

[xudash]

????????????

https://twitter.com/SLU_Billikens/status/1449156060183420929

Paul, according to follow up posts, they are making an announcement that is related to their facilities.

[xukeith]

????????????

https://twitter.com/SLU_Billikens/status/1449156060183420929

MVC probably

[xudash]

MVC probably

Facilities.

[xudash]

http://adimeback.com/big-east-realignment-dont-overthink-it-its-gonzaga-or-nobody/

[D-West & PO-Z]

Donit know if I’d be in favor of it or not but one that may make since is SLU. Decent sized market, basketball only, culturally very similar to most of the league and geographically connects quite a few of the schools..

SLU would be a great addition, in my biased opinion. Like you said, decent sized (new) market, basketball only, school culture the same, great on campus facilities, very good fan support even in times of limited success, the school has a large endowment, well placed geographically, has spent big money on name brand coaches (Majerus, Ford).

I think with the boost the BE would bring SLU, SLU would be competitive in the BE (instantly better than DePaul, really).

Now do they add any sort of instant panache? No. But if the BE is wanting to expand, they check all the boxes, imo.

Plus it would really piss of UD fans if SLU got an invite and UD didn't!

Honestly though, I prefer the round robin, but if expanding, I hope SLU gets the invite.

[STL_XUfan]

http://adimeback.com/big-east-realignment-dont-overthink-it-its-gonzaga-or-nobody/

"None of this is to say Gonzaga is a lock to join. The continental United States is big, and Gonzaga is on the wrong side of it. But that’s a Gonzaga problem: they’re the ones that will have to play half their basketball games 2500 miles away from home and answer a lot of hard questions about what to do with their other sports. Everyone else in the league just has to go west for basketball once."

This line makes a lot of sense and kind of changes the way I am thinking about it. The distance isn't really our problem, it is their problem. I don't care about having a 10pm tip once a year. So if Gonzaga is cool with it, who are we to object.

[bjf123]

Plus it would really piss of UD fans if SLU got an invite and UD didn't!

That, alone, is reason enough!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulxu]

If Gonzaga says yes, the Big East should too. And if Gonzaga says no? Stay at 11, Big East: the round robin is better than Dayton.

Good point.

[MHettel]

SLU would be a great addition, in my biased opinion. Like you said, decent sized (new) market, basketball only, school culture the same, great on campus facilities, very good fan support even in times of limited success, the school has a large endowment, well placed geographically, has spent big money on name brand coaches (Majerus, Ford).

I think with the boost the BE would bring SLU, SLU would be competitive in the BE (instantly better than DePaul, really).

Now do they add any sort of instant panache? No. But if the BE is wanting to expand, they check all the boxes, imo.

Plus it would really piss of UD fans if SLU got an invite and UD didn't!

Honestly though, I prefer the round robin, but if expanding, I hope SLU gets the invite.

I grew up in St. Louis. Not a basketball town. There are SLU fans, but thats really all you would get in that Market. General fans of college basketball probably already are getting what they need. You wont pick up that many new viewers if you are the Big East.

I wouldn't do expansion just to add SLU. But, if you added multiple teams (including Gonzaga) then it makes too much sense.

[JTG]

Took a peek at the Zags board this am. They seem to be mostly enthused, except for game times. Mostly 6pm tips @ the latest when they are East, unless a Sat or Sun. They seem to welcone playing in a P5 bball league, and look forward to the competition. It's up to Fox and the BE to make this work, or don't expand. None of the other suggestions make any sense for moving the needle.

[atljar]

Is Gonzaga anyone without Mark Few? And is Mark Few a guaranteed stay? Important questions from my perspective

[xudash]

Is Gonzaga anyone without Mark Few? And is Mark Few a guaranteed stay? Important questions from my perspective

Totally fair questions.

Is Mark Few a guaranteed stay? No, nothing is ever guaranteed, especially when it comes to college basketball coaches. However, there is an overwhelming body of evidence that supports the premise that Few isn't going anywhere else to coach basketball. He has turned down numerous high-profile offers. Importantly, he clearly loves where he lives and the life style it affords him. Few has proven to be a rare bird and one that has totally worked out for Gonzaga.

What is Gonzaga without Mark Few? Gonzaga is like every other basketball program in the raw since that it would be faced with having to replace a highly successful coach with another successful coach. There are no guarantees with that, as everyone knows.

With that noted, we need to drill down a little bit. Were Gonzaga to remain in the WCC and lose Few along the way, they would be at high-risk of losing their stature over time; over a rather short period of time. The WCC television agreement will be going into reverse with the loss of BYU. NCAAT units will not be as plentiful as they've been under Few. Transition is transition; it happens to all programs, perhaps save for the true few blue bloods. Overall, funding would come under pressure with a watered down media agreement and less NCAAT success, making it hard to operate and sustain a competitive level against the P4/5 and Big East.

On the other hand, were Gonzaga to join the Big East, they would elevate their program in terms of prestige and they also would enjoy financial security. Few leaving will be a problem whenever it happens, but they would be in better shape to navigate it if they were to exist under the BE tent.

Frankly, I believe their administration and their fan base realize all this. They are not sustainable for the long term if they remain a part of the WCC. Maybe they could have made it work for a while had BYU not elected to exit for the BigXII, but that is a moot point now.

Mark Few is 58 years old. He probably has at least another 7 good years in him. That's a nice chunk of time to help Gonzaga make the transition from the WCC to the Big East. The Gonzaga fan base has no clue about what it is going to mean from transitioning from a patsy WCC schedule to the BE GRIND.

The logistics WILL BE worked out if the money is there. It will be up to Gonzaga to decide. They'll most agree to join the BE. With Few at the age of 58 and where Gonzaga presently stands, it will prove to be a mutually beneficial move by the Zags and the Big East.

[drudy23]

Gonzaga would be awesome, but I don't think that will happen.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd love to renew the Dayton rivalry again. I don't understand why people don't want to play them? It's a great game with a great atmosphere. I hate UC, but it would hardcore suck if that game never happened again.

UD would also be significantly better than St Louis - that does nothing for me. Snoozefest.

[xudash]

Gonzaga would be awesome, but I don't think that will happen.

I know I'm in the minority, but I'd love to renew the Dayton rivalry again. I don't understand why people don't want to play them? It's a great game with a great atmosphere. I hate UC, but it would hardcore suck if that game never happened again.

UD would also be significantly better than St Louis - that does nothing for me. Snoozefest.

You are thinking about this from a fan perspective. You aren't thinking about it from a University perspective. Dayton isn't happening when it comes to them being offered a BE membership. VD doesn't have a prayer in hell of that happening. It isn't about fear of Dayton. We've owned them for years as far as that goes. It's about having a strategic advantage over Dayton by virtue of our Big East membership.

You don't give that up at the institutional level.

You don't give up a recruiting advantage over them; why do something that makes them stronger, while increasing recruiting pressure on our program?

Nova will never allow another Philly school in the BE.
Georgetown will never allow GW in the BE.
St. John's and Seton Hall will never allow Fordham in the BE.
DePaul will never allow Loyola in the BE.

Not that any of those schools are worthy now, but Dayton isn't worthy either.

Beyond that, yes, you are in the minority. That rivalry became too toxic for its own good. It deserves to remain in a permanent slumber.

Could some form of one-off OOC game take place every once in a while with the mouth breathers? I suppose it could, at least on paper. But it hasn't happened yet. We have absolutely no interest - NADA - in doing anything that would provide a sense of legitimacy to that historically underperforming program.

[JTG]

Imo this whole Val Ackerman leak is about Gonzaga, period. The Zags are the only school that adds anything to the tv package. So no UD no SLU no Wichita, or any of the other goofy idea put forth. It's Gonzaga or nothing.

[xudash]

Imo this whole Val Ackerman leak is about Gonzaga, period. The Zags are the only school that adds anything to the tv package. So no UD no SLU no Wichita, or any of the other goofy idea put forth. It's Gonzaga or nothing.

You won't get any argument here.

This appears to have been a timed leak.

It is certainly reasonable to believe that very quiet conversations are going on between Fox and Val, at the direction of the Presidents, perhaps.

Imagine being able to approach Gonzaga with a television package that increases to the $7-9 million+ range per school, versus what Gonzaga is looking at with respect to the WCC package after it takes a close shave from the loss of BYU.

It's not about making the logistics easy for them. That isn't possible. But they can work on making them manageable, and certainly acceptable given such a media payout, coupled with an NCAAT Unit machine that is and will continue to be the Big East.

Seriously, I truly think I would be beside myself if Xavier weren't in the Big East at this point. When the train leaves the station after this next go around, the hobos aren't going to have much to cheer about.

[xubrew]

Some tidbits/brain dump on Gonzaga....

The Zags may very well be the Big East's top choice for expansion. There is no question in my mind, even with them being such a geographic outlier, that they would be an asset for the conference. The question in my mind is would they even want to come?? And if so, under what circumstances??

The current Big East TV contract pays each school about $4.5 million a year, and while that should increase once this contact is up (and very much deservedly so), it's my understanding that Gonzaga currently makes over $9 million a year just off of TV. That's more than double what each Big East team gets. They basically get the majority of their money from the conference deal while everyone else in the WCC gets bread crumbs.

They had the chance to go to the Mountain West (I don't think that's a secret anymore) and chose not to, and the deciding factor was the WCC basically gave them all the TV money they wanted, as big a share of NCAA Tournament money as they wanted, and allowed them to basically keep all of their OOC TV revenue. They are raking in as much TV money as anyone in the country, and the door to go to the MWC is probably still open, so they can always use that as leverage.

So, to get Gonzaga, what would the Big East have to put on the table? I'm guessing probably more than what they'd want to, and probably more than what they should give up. I don't want to say that it's totally impossible, or that it shouldn't at least be looked at, but I will say that I'm guessing that Gonzaga probably feels they don't need the Big East, so unless the Big East is willing to give them more money than what they're already getting (and THAT would probably mean giving them substantially more than the other 11 members), they probably won't join.

I don't know how badly Fox wants a 12th team if that team is someone other than Gonzaga. I am inclined to think that if Fox really wants a 12th team and has someone specific in mind, then that's who the 12th team will be. Media deals just seem to carry more weight now than they ever have before even though they don't officially get a vote. ESPN/CBS basically wanted to more than double the number of football games that drew over 7 million viewers, and realized that Texas vs LSU, and Texas v Alabama, and Texas v TAMU, Texas v Oklahoma, and Oklahoma v Florida, and Oklahoma v Georgia, and some other match-ups would almost always hit those marks whereas Texas v TCU and Oklahoma v Kansas State would not. So, the SEC expanded because that's what the networks wanted. Texas A&M wasn't happy about it, but it didn't matter.

College basketball is not on that scale. With the exception of the NCAA Tournament, it's far more regional than national in terms of ratings and viewership, but the idea is still kind of the same. I kind of said this in an earlier post, but iff Fox wants 12 and wants a specific school, and is willing to up the annual TV money by more than $2 million per school if they feel it means more broadcasts and more viewers, then whatever school they want (be it public, private, catholic, or whatever) is who it will be, and however they want the scheduling format to work is how it will work.

[xubrew]

One more Big East/Gonzaga tidbit...

In looking at Xavier's OOC schedule this year, they are playing in one exempt event (the NIT) and a road game at Oklahoma State per a scheduling agreement. All other games, literally ALL of them, Fox has the rights to. I believe that is typical of all Big East teams for all seasons.

I could foresee that as being something else Gonzaga doesn't like. They like being able to schedule who they want OOC and not be obligated to have X number of them (or in the case of the BE, virtually all of them) be part of their conferences TV deal. I also understand that the Big East is much stronger than the WCC, and the need to schedule about ten showcase OOC games wouldn't be quite as necessary, but nevertheless I think it's something that the Zags still like to do, and it is therefore something else that they like about their current situation.

[Muskie]

What are the costs of the non-revenue Big East Sports playing Gonzaga. While the TV money will be greater some of that money will have to subsidize the other increased costs across the athletic department.

[xubrew]

What are the costs of the non-revenue Big East Sports playing Gonzaga. While the TV money will be greater some of that money will have to subsidize the other increased costs across the athletic department.

It would undoubtedly be more, and it is something to consider, but for most sports schools would only be going out there once every two years. I don't think there is any other college sport other than men's and women's basketball where home and homes are the norm. Maybe volleyball?? Now Gonzaga traveling east multiple times a year in all sports...that's libel to get kind of pricey.

[MHettel]

Some tidbits/brain dump on Gonzaga....

The Zags may very well be the Big East's top choice for expansion. There is no question in my mind, even with them being such a geographic outlier, that they would be an asset for the conference. The question in my mind is would they even want to come?? And if so, under what circumstances??

The current Big East TV contract pays each school about $4.5 million a year, and while that should increase once this contact is up (and very much deservedly so), it's my understanding that Gonzaga currently makes over $9 million a year just off of TV. That's more than double what each Big East team gets. They basically get the majority of their money from the conference deal while everyone else in the WCC gets bread crumbs.

They had the chance to go to the Mountain West (I don't think that's a secret anymore) and chose not to, and the deciding factor was the WCC basically gave them all the TV money they wanted, as big a share of NCAA Tournament money as they wanted, and allowed them to basically keep all of their OOC TV revenue. They are raking in as much TV money as anyone in the country, and the door to go to the MWC is probably still open, so they can always use that as leverage.

So, to get Gonzaga, what would the Big East have to put on the table? I'm guessing probably more than what they'd want to, and probably more than what they should give up. I don't want to say that it's totally impossible, or that it shouldn't at least be looked at, but I will say that I'm guessing that Gonzaga probably feels they don't need the Big East, so unless the Big East is willing to give them more money than what they're already getting (and THAT would probably mean giving them substantially more than the other 11 members), they probably won't join.

I don't know how badly Fox wants a 12th team if that team is someone other than Gonzaga. I am inclined to think that if Fox really wants a 12th team and has someone specific in mind, then that's who the 12th team will be. Media deals just seem to carry more weight now than they ever have before even though they don't officially get a vote. ESPN/CBS basically wanted to more than double the number of football games that drew over 7 million viewers, and realized that Texas vs LSU, and Texas v Alabama, and Texas v TAMU, Texas v Oklahoma, and Oklahoma v Florida, and Oklahoma v Georgia, and some other match-ups would almost always hit those marks whereas Texas v TCU and Oklahoma v Kansas State would not. So, the SEC expanded because that's what the networks wanted. Texas A&M wasn't happy about it, but it didn't matter.

College basketball is not on that scale. With the exception of the NCAA Tournament, it's far more regional than national in terms of ratings and viewership, but the idea is still kind of the same. I kind of said this in an earlier post, but iff Fox wants 12 and wants a specific school, and is willing to up the annual TV money by more than $2 million per school if they feel it means more broadcasts and more viewers, then whatever school they want (be it public, private, catholic, or whatever) is who it will be, and however they want the scheduling format to work is how it will work.

I dont see a scenario where TV money is not distributed equally. I'm not even sure I believe that Gonzaga has that type of arrangement in the WCC Currently. They probably get alot of money for the made for TV non-con games.

What would be the point of unequal distribution of money? DePaul currently sucks. So lets crush their budget? Individual teams obviously look out for #1, first and foremost. But conferences exist as a sort of alliance where the member teams can benefit from the success of eth other member teams.

I dont see Nova, or Uconn or Georgetown allowing Gonzaga to earn more than they do.

Your narrative here sounds a little like what the "sales pitch" might be if you were Gonzaga. "give us disproportionally more, or we are not coming." You are forgetting that there is always the option of the Big East saying "ok, see you in about 8 years when our TV contract is due for renewal again....maybe."

There is one window to get this done. If Fox wants it, then it comes down to making sure the existing BE and Gonzaga are better off joining forces than not.

Gonzaga would get a massive lift in competition and exposure. Current BE teams will get more money.

Honestly, if you are XU or Providence or Seton Hall and someone asked if you wanted Gonzaga to join the conference you'd probably say you were indifferent. But if they said it meant 3M more per year in TV revenue, you sign up for that immediately. Money is the motivating aspect for the current BE members. They wont agree to an unbalanced distribution model. There are enough "average" BE teams to block expansion if it comes with TV money payout issues.

[xubrew]

I dont see a scenario where TV money is not distributed equally. I'm not even sure I believe that Gonzaga has that type of arrangement in the WCC Currently. They probably get alot of money for the made for TV non-con games.

What would be the point of unequal distribution of money? DePaul currently sucks. So lets crush their budget? Individual teams obviously look out for #1, first and foremost. But conferences exist as a sort of alliance where the member teams can benefit from the success of eth other member teams.

I dont see Nova, or Uconn or Georgetown allowing Gonzaga to earn more than they do.

Your narrative here sounds a little like what the "sales pitch" might be if you were Gonzaga. "give us disproportionally more, or we are not coming." You are forgetting that there is always the option of the Big East saying "ok, see you in about 8 years when our TV contract is due for renewal again....maybe."

There is one window to get this done. If Fox wants it, then it comes down to making sure the existing BE and Gonzaga are better off joining forces than not.

Gonzaga would get a massive lift in competition and exposure. Current BE teams will get more money.

Honestly, if you are XU or Providence or Seton Hall and someone asked if you wanted Gonzaga to join the conference you'd probably say you were indifferent. But if they said it meant 3M more per year in TV revenue, you sign up for that immediately. Money is the motivating aspect for the current BE members. They wont agree to an unbalanced distribution model. There are enough "average" BE teams to block expansion if it comes with TV money payout issues.

So...I think we agree. Just to recap the overall points...

-In order for Gonzaga to seriously consider joining the Big East, they'd have to get more media revenue than what they are getting now.

-In order for the Big East to supply them with that, they'd almost have to give them a bigger share. I guess that wouldn't be necessary if Fox agreed to give all 12 schools more than $9 million a year, but I seriously doubt they'll do that. I feel pretty confident in saying with absolute certainty Fox won't do that.

-The Big East likely would not want to give Gonzaga a bigger share, nor should they want to give them a bigger share. And therefore....

-Gonzaga probably won't join.

[MHettel]

So...I think we agree. Just to recap the overall points...

-In order for Gonzaga to seriously consider joining the Big East, they'd have to get more media revenue than what they are getting now.

-In order for the Big East to supply them with that, they'd almost have to give them a bigger share. I guess that wouldn't be necessary if Fox agreed to give all 12 schools more than $9 million a year, but I seriously doubt they'll do that. I feel pretty confident in saying with absolute certainty Fox won't do that.

-The Big East likely would not want to give Gonzaga a bigger share, nor should they want to give them a bigger share. And therefore....

-Gonzaga probably won't join.

pretty much.

But where are you getting this 9M number for Gonzaga? Are you saying that is their current WCC share? I cant see how that's possible. WCC is strictly West Coast viewership. Hard to believe their entire deal would be worth 9M.

I'd be in favor of a scenario where TV revenue is split among conference members for "in-conference" games, while OOC games have to still be on Fox, but can be separately negotiated with just the team. Have your cake and eat it too, yeah?

[xubrew]

pretty much.

But where are you getting this 9M number for Gonzaga? Are you saying that is their current WCC share? I cant see how that's possible. WCC is strictly West Coast viewership. Hard to believe their entire deal would be worth 9M.

I'd be in favor of a scenario where TV revenue is split among conference members for "in-conference" games, while OOC games have to still be on Fox, but can be separately negotiated with just the team. Have your cake and eat it too, yeah?

Not the answer you're looking for, but a friend of mine who works for one of the major networks told me that's what it was. I just took it at face value. But, then again, that was a couple years ago when the WCC signed their new/current deal with ESPN and CBS, so it may have changed, or the person that told me may have just been flat out wrong to begin with. It could also be what you said where they get to keep all of the media revenue from their OOC games and not have to share it with the rest of the league. Gonzaga had the option of going to the Mountain West and laid out what they wanted in order to stay, which included a (much) bigger share of the TV money, a (much) bigger share of the NCAA Tournament money, fewer conference games so they could schedule more OOC games, and I'm sure I'm leaving a few things out.

[Muskie]

In a conference like the WCC I have no problem with a team like Gonzaga getting more of the $$ share for revenue. I'm not willing to make that same sort of argument in the Big East. That's a non-starter to me.

[JTG]

In a conference like the WCC I have no problem with a team like Gonzaga getting more of the $$ share for revenue. I'm not willing to make that same sort of argument in the Big East. That's a non-starter to me.
I agree, the WCC is about like the old MCC now that BYU is leaving. The WCC might agree to something like that but if Gonzaga wants that same deal in the BE, I'd tell em to shove it

[Muskie]

if Gonzaga could demand an unequal share, what do you give Nova who has actually won two National Titles in the past seven years?

[atljar]

From my understanding, NCAA tournament credits typically go to the league to be dispersed. If a team leaves the league, they leave their credits behind.

[Muskie]

From my understanding, NCAA tournament credits typically go to the league to be dispersed. If a team leaves the league, they leave their credits behind.
That's true. However we are talking about TV money here. Apparently Gonzaga has a favorable deal where they get a majority of the TV revenue from the WCC deal. I'd be opposed to such an arrangement in the Big East.

[atljar]

That's true. However we are talking about TV money here. Apparently Gonzaga has a favorable deal where they get a majority of the TV revenue from the WCC deal. I'd be opposed to such an arrangement in the Big East.

Little slow today (and most other days), lol. Thanks for clarifying

[xubrew]

That's true. However we are talking about TV money here. Apparently Gonzaga has a favorable deal where they get a majority of the TV revenue from the WCC deal. I'd be opposed to such an arrangement in the Big East.

I would too, and I think the rest of the Big East would as well.

But, just to clarify, if the Big East were to court Gonzaga, I don't think the Zags would demand more money than the other 11 schools for the sake of feeling like they deserve more than everyone else. I simply think they'd want to be cashing checks that are as big (or bigger) than the ones they're cashing now and have the scheduling freedom for OOC games that they have now. Simple as that. If a move to the Big East doesn't supply them with that, then I don't think they'll want to move.

[Muskie]

I would too, and I think the rest of the Big East would as well.

But, just to clarify, if the Big East were to court Gonzaga, I don't think the Zags would demand more money than the other 11 schools for the sake of feeling like they deserve more than everyone else. I simply think they'd want to be cashing checks that are as big (or bigger) than the ones they're cashing now and have the scheduling freedom for OOC games that they have now. Simple as that. If a move to the Big East doesn't supply them with that, then I don't think they'll want to move.

Totally agree.

[MHettel]

I could see a scenario where maybe Gonzaga gets paid what amounts to a "signing bonus" to join the BE. This would be intended to "make them whole" for any NCAA money they had to walk away from in the WCC.

It would be structured as an up front payment directly from FOX. It wouldnt be MORE money than FOX was willing to pay overall, but since its coming from FOX, it might reduce they annual total payout that was left for the original BE schools.

If the Zags got 10M to join, and Xavier gets 7M per year as opposed to 4.5M....and Gonzaga also got 7M per year...then my concerns related to uneven payout would be addressed. That could work.

Maybe Gonzaga could relocate? get this deal moving along!

[JTG]

I could see a scenario where maybe Gonzaga gets paid what amounts to a "signing bonus" to join the BE. This would be intended to "make them whole" for any NCAA money they had to walk away from in the WCC.

It would be structured as an up front payment directly from FOX. It wouldnt be MORE money than FOX was willing to pay overall, but since its coming from FOX, it might reduce they annual total payout that was left for the original BE schools.

If the Zags got 10M to join, and Xavier gets 7M per year as opposed to 4.5M....and Gonzaga also got 7M per year...then my concerns related to uneven payout would be addressed. That could work.

Maybe Gonzaga could relocate? get this deal moving along!
Bullshit... Zags get $17 mil and the rest of the league gets $7. That's crazy talk. That's way too uneven. And besides Nova has 2 National Championships, they would really be pissed. Plus the WCC buyout is only $500k. Would it be nice to have Gonzaga ? Yes. Should the BE lay down and get run over for them ? Oh HELL NO.

[MHettel]

Bullshit... Zags get $17 mil and the rest of the league gets $7. That's crazy talk. That's way too uneven. And besides Nova has 2 National Championships, they would really be pissed. Plus the WCC buyout is only $500k. Would it be nice to have Gonzaga ? Yes. Should the BE lay down and get run over for them ? Oh HELL NO.

read it again. Zags get a one time payment equal to whatever they walk away from in NCAA money from the WCC. You would net present value the payout since they would get it all up front as opposed to being spread out over 5-7 years.

Then, the annual media payout to all schools for the term of the contract (8-10 years) would be the same for everyone.

So it's not really 17M vs. 7M. At all.

[MHettel]

read it again. Zags get a one time payment equal to whatever they walk away from in NCAA money from the WCC. You would net present value the payout since they would get it all up front as opposed to being spread out over 5-7 years.

Then, the annual media payout to all schools for the term of the contract (8-10 years) would be the same for everyone.

So it's not really 17M vs. 7M. At all.

You know what, lets forget my opinion on this. Let me pose a question for you.

For this scenario, you are the decision maker for how XU would vote on this.

-Lets say currently, XU gets 4.5M per year.
-If we just renewed the TV deal "as is", lets say it would be worth $6M per year.
-Lets say with Gonzaga in the mix, it would be worth $7M per year. But lets say Gonzaga gets 10M upfront as well.

In this scenario, XU is either getting $6M or $7M. You decide.

[JTG]

You know what, lets forget my opinion on this. Let me pose a question for you.

For this scenario, you are the decision maker for how XU would vote on this.

-Lets say currently, XU gets 4.5M per year.
-If we just renewed the TV deal "as is", lets say it would be worth $6M per year.
-Lets say with Gonzaga in the mix, it would be worth $7M per year. But lets say Gonzaga gets 10M upfront as well.

In this scenario, XU is either getting $6M or $7M. You decide.
Let's use the present value of money and future value of money. No way I vote to hand Gonzaga $10 mil. Now if the BE wants to take that $10 mil and invest it, and give Gonzaga $1mil a year extra ok. The league generates income to pay the Zags, the Zags get their $10 mil, and it DOESN'T cost the league anywhere near $10 mil. And they have money to spread around to the other members But $10 mil upfront No Way.

[MHettel]

Let's use the present value of money and future value of money. No way I vote to hand Gonzaga $10 mil. Now if the BE wants to take that $10 mil and invest it, and give Gonzaga $1mil a year extra ok. The league generates income to pay the Zags, the Zags get their $10 mil, and it DOESN'T cost the league anywhere near $10 mil. And they have money to spread around to the other members But $10 mil upfront No Way.

Here is the way I would do it. Lets say Gonzaga would be receiving $2M a year over the next 5 years from the WCC. So $10M total. But yes, time value of money needs to be considered.

So Fox / Big East would Net Present Value the $10M BACK to todays value using some rate of return. That would reduce the $10M lump sum to something like say $8.5M. Tell Gonzaga to buy some Bitcoin with it, and in 5 years it will be worth $10M.

So basically, I'm doing the same thing you are, but going the opposite direction. Its just clean to get it all over with.

Also, I totally made up 10M I have no idea what they would be walking away from in the WCC. But it would be something.

Ever change jobs and leave unvested stock on the table? Make sure to mention that to your new employer when you have the compensation discussion. You might be surprised to find that THEY see the value in that and you could end up with some shares on your way in the door...

[paulxu]

I assume WCC money from TV would go down if Gonzaga left.
As a result, I can't see them agreeing to leave all other sports in the conference.
And the cost for all other sports to fly East would seem to be prohibitive for Gonzaga.

[MHettel]

I assume WCC money from TV would go down if Gonzaga left.
As a result, I can't see them agreeing to leave all other sports in the conference.
And the cost for all other sports to fly East would seem to be prohibitive for Gonzaga.

Everything about Gonzaga coming to the BE is prohibitive. Except the level of Basketball would be amazing.

I've been thinking about this for YEARS and somehow want it to work out, but yeah...too many things working against it.

So then WHY would Ackerman even discuss expansion at all? If it's not going to happen, then just say it's not. But to leave the door open...or better yet....open the door herself... makes no sense unless this thing is at least plausible if not likely.

You don't add just one team if it's SLU or UD or similar. The only 2 attractive options are ND or Gonzaga. ND does bring the angle of ND football coming over to Fox eventually. But NDs other athletic teams would WAX the BE in everything (aside from WBB). But we already saw how little Womens BBall matters when UConn made the decision to rejoin the BE.

Lets speculate: Gonzaga AND ND join the BE. Thats 13 teams. Gotta get to 16 to address some Geography and scheduling challenges. So, in addition to these 2, the BE picks up SLU, Wichita St and St. Mary's.

East Division: SHU, Prov, SJU, GTown, Nova, UConn, XU, SLU

West Division: Zags, St. Marys, WSU, Creighton, Marquette, DePaul, Butler, ND

Play division rivals 2X, and everyone else once. Thats 22 games total, just like today.

Totally (ok, partially) addresses the travel issues for the Zags. the "throw in" teams like SLU and St.Mary could care less about the travel for BBall or any other sport. This would be an absolute gold mine for those programs.

Pretty well represented from Coast to Coast. Hinges on ND and Football.

If i had to bet, nothing actually happens. If I were King for a day, THIS would happen.

[bobbiemcgee]

So then WHY would Ackerman even discuss expansion at all? If it's not going to happen, then just say it's not. But to leave the door open...or better yet....open the door herself... makes no sense unless this thing is at least plausible if not likely.


I think she mentioned it because it is a very prestigious program that is knocking at the BE door and she wants to prepare the Presidents, and possibly Fox, to take a look see. My .02 cents.

[xukeith]

I think she mentioned it because it is a very prestigious program that is knocking at the BE door and she wants to prepare the Presidents, and possibly Fox, to take a look see. My .02 cents.

Which program is knocking on the door?

[bobbiemcgee]

Dunno.

[JTG]

which program is knocking on the door?

fox