Season at a Glance

[xudash]

Cincy paper with a current state of the union piece: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2021/10/12/xavier-basketball-2021-22-injuries-redshirts-early-observations/5987394001/

Encouraging to read this caption: Dieonte Miles emerges.

Steele mentioned strong guard play: "And our guard play has been tremendous. Really, really good with Paul, Colby, Dwon, AK (Adam Kunkel), all those guys have been great, and Nate has returned to form really well, he's more athletic than he was last year." However, no mention of KyKy. Damn shame about that kid. I hope he can properly focus himself on what he needs to do to contribute at this level.

Our B1G transfers received high praise.

Freemantle is in a boot. Week to week and won't be rushed back.

Freshman Elijah Tucker to redshirt.

Overall, an encouraging assessment, but with the obvious statement being stated - - Steele has the talent, now he needs to win at a level that gets X back to the NCAAT.

[xu82]

Thanks for the link. It seems every year it gets harder and harder to keep up with all the pieces on our roster. I’m all for freedom for the players (especially when the coaches who recruited you can ditch you at any point in time), but this transfer stuff can make your head spin.

As for Steele, I understand those who have concerns. I know I do. But I also know that with every job I ever had, I continued to get better as time went by and I grew into the job. Here’s to hoping Steele can put some of those reservations to rest this season with a nice run in March!

[xudash]

Thanks for the link. It seems every year it gets harder and harder to keep up with all the pieces on our roster. I’m all for freedom for the players (especially when the coaches who recruited you can ditch you at any point in time), but this transfer stuff can make your head spin.

As for Steele, I understand those who have concerns. I know I do. But I also know that with every job I ever had, I continued to get better as time went by and I grew into the job. Here’s to hoping Steele can put some of those reservations to rest this season with a nice run in March!

Here. Here.

[Xville]

This is mostly tongue in cheek but it Sounds like Steele is in midseason form…praise for his boy kunkel…nothing I want more than his instant offense 27 percent from 3, followed by no mention of kyky. In all seriousness, Why kyky ever came back I have no clue, even if all he got were some mid major offers.

[bleedXblue]

This is mostly tongue in cheek but it Sounds like Steele is in midseason form…praise for his boy kunkel…nothing I want more than his instant offense 27 percent from 3, followed by no mention of kyky. In all seriousness, Why kyky ever came back I have no clue, even if all he got were some mid major offers.

Wow, in midseason form yourself......LOL

We all know this is year for Steele to show what he can/can't do. Looking forward to seeing Miles contribute for sure.

As in the last 3 years, we have the talent (more so this year IMHO), but do we have the coach that can put it together? We shall see......

[X-man]

This is mostly tongue in cheek but it Sounds like Steele is in midseason form…praise for his boy kunkel…nothing I want more than his instant offense 27 percent from 3, followed by no mention of kyky. In all seriousness, Why kyky ever came back I have no clue, even if all he got were some mid major offers.

No mention of Stanley either. We need both Kyky and Ben to be playing, not sitting, this year.

[GoMuskies]

There is no reason for this team to be anything but really, really, really good. Hopefully they stay healthy this year, but this should be a big year. I've got plenty of concerns about Steele given the way the first three years have gone, but it's such a great sign that guys like Scruggs and Johnson wanted to come back for a fifth year. And even that KyKy eventually felt comfortable coming back. Can't wait to get going.

[xukeith]

This should be a much more different team. Hunter, Miles, Nunge and Freemantle will be a nice added frontcourt challenge for other teams.
Teh difference between a good year and a great year probably depends on Nunge/Miles/Hunter contributing offensively and defensively each game. I bet as February and March come around, we will see Freemantle, and 2 other bigs get minutes.

I don't think I will rely on Scruggs to carry this team on his back. He is a good leader but not a great go to guy (see Butler game last season).

I would love to see Jones and Freemantle be go to scorers when game is on the line.

I could care less about Tandy. His ship has come and gone.

[drudy23]

Steele basically says the same thing every pre-season. I see better than I hear.

I will say that I am very optimistic about this season. They have alot of talent. But Steele has to put it all together. We might be good enough for it not to matter.

It won't be a fun messageboard if we are sitting on the bubble in late February. No excuses this year.

[IM4X]

Not nearly as concerned about the offense. We have enough firepower. How well these players guard on the perimeter and how well they defend in the paint is going to tell us how good this team can be. Will Miles, Nance and even Feee show they can defend and rebound well this year? Let’s hope so.

One encouraging thought about this team: We have a number of players who are not afraid to step up and be “the guy” at the end of a game (and teammates who trust those players). We have seen Odom, Jones, Johnson, Scruggs, Freemantle and even Kunkel step into that role last season.

[xukeith]

I didn't hear Steele say anything about Kunkel. He praised Scruggs, Jones, Miles, Nunge, Odom, and Hunter.

[noteggs]

Really good interview from John Fanta on the upcoming X season. With Travis the first 20 minutes (ok some of your typical coach speak), then with Baum and the Musketeer Report dude Rick the last 28.

https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1448287984881651719?s=10

[Xville]

26 days left…getting pumped! What do we think starting lineups will be? I’m assuming:

Scruggs
Johnson
Jones
Free
Nunge

Anyone with insider info that think it will be any different?

Bench:

Odom
Kunkel
Miles
Hunter
Kyky
Tucker
Edwards
Stanley

Wondering if some of these guys are taking a redshirt? 13 guys..no way everyone is going to play much..

[xukeith]

26 days left…getting pumped! What do we think starting lineups will be? I’m assuming:

Scruggs
Johnson
Jones
Free
Nunge

Anyone with insider info that think it will be any different?

Bench:

Odom
Kunkel
Miles
Hunter
Kyky
Tucker
Edwards
Stanley

Wondering if some of these guys are taking a redshirt? 13 guys..no way everyone is going to play much..
To start the exhibitions the lineup probably will not have Nunge to start. The team is slowly entering Nunge into full live 5 on 5 action. All signs point to Hunter or Miles starting in November. If Nunge and Miles can be 100% active rebounding and defending with some scoring in the 8-12 ppg range, X will be excellent. Hope the season has no injuries but some minor injuries can be expected.

Steele announced Tucker is redshirting this year.

[Xville]

To start the exhibitions the lineup probably will not have Nunge to start. The team is slowly entering Nunge into full live 5 on 5 action. All signs point to Hunter or Miles starting in November. If Nunge and Miles can be 100% active rebounding and defending with some scoring in the 8-12 ppg range, X will be excellent. Hope the season has no injuries but some minor injuries can be expected.

Steele announced Tucker is redshirting this year.

Ah thanks for the info…didn’t know where nunge was in his recovery so that’s interesting.

12 guys still seems like a very large rotation…hopefully it’s more healthy competition than a negative.

[bleedXblue]

The ONE thing that Steele has not been able to do so far is put together good and balanced rotations. Huge concern on my part. Also, there cant be 12 guys all getting minutes. Be prepared for limited roles for KyKy and Kunkel. Just too many guys in front of them.

[GoMuskies]

I wouldn't be so sure of that with Kunkel. I think Steele likes him a lot.

[Xville]

yeah steele loves him some kunkel...i don't know if he reminds him of himself or what it is.

12 is a lot for anyone to manage and as mentioned above...lineup management and construction has been one of Steele's biggest issues in the last three years.

[X-man]

Really good interview from John Fanta on the upcoming X season. With Travis the first 20 minutes (ok some of your typical coach speak), then with Baum and the Musketeer Report dude Rick the last 28.

https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1448287984881651719?s=10

If this set of interviews doesn't get you psyched for the season, you ain't no fan. Thanks for posting.

[markchal]

I know this board loves nothing more than a heated Kunkel v Tandy debate, but how the battle for our 7th/8th man plays out isn't going to define our season. I'm cautiously optimistic with the praise and early reports on Miles, who I'd sort of written off from the program.

It is sort of concerning that our starting frontcourt isn't healthy enough to be playing, and may not be for some time. Week-to-week for Freemantle and Nunge not even back to 5-v-5 yet makes me worried that we're going to see a LOT of Miles/Stanley/Hunter early in the season. I hope we get to see this team at full strength sooner rather than later (and knock on wood that all our guys recovering from injuries can STAY healthy).

There are too many guys for the rotation, not sure we'll be able to get into much rhythm if we're doing hockey subs again. Scruggs/Johnson/Odom/Freemantle/Jones/Nunge are probably locked into big minutes for this team. With the way Steele talks about Hunter and his versatility, I'd be surprised if he's not in there as the first frontcourt sub. A LOT of talent battling for remaining minutes, should be fun to watch.

This team should be able to score, and should have some strong defenders (at least among the guard/SF position).

[xufan2020]

yeah steele loves him some kunkel...i don't know if he reminds him of himself or what it is.

12 is a lot for anyone to manage and as mentioned above...lineup management and construction has been one of Steele's biggest issues in the last three years.
LOL how about Kunkel being able to bring more to the table when his outside shot isn't falling. Like slashing, not being totally lost on defense, and smart decision making/passing. Look I hope Kyky becomes the player I think he's capable of, but to suggest Kunkel doesn't bring more to the table currently is just not true. Obviously Kunkel had a down year shooting the 3, but his and Kyky's career % from 3 are basically the same.

[drudy23]

What's this place going to do when Kunkel starts game 1 because of his practice points lol?

[xukeith]

I know this board loves nothing more than a heated Kunkel v Tandy debate, but how the battle for our 7th/8th man plays out isn't going to define our season. I'm cautiously optimistic with the praise and early reports on Miles, who I'd sort of written off from the program.

It is sort of concerning that our starting frontcourt isn't healthy enough to be playing, and may not be for some time. Week-to-week for Freemantle and Nunge not even back to 5-v-5 yet makes me worried that we're going to see a LOT of Miles/Stanley/Hunter early in the season. I hope we get to see this team at full strength sooner rather than later (and knock on wood that all our guys recovering from injuries can STAY healthy).

There are too many guys for the rotation, not sure we'll be able to get into much rhythm if we're doing hockey subs again. Scruggs/Johnson/Odom/Freemantle/Jones/Nunge are probably locked into big minutes for this team. With the way Steele talks about Hunter and his versatility, I'd be surprised if he's not in there as the first frontcourt sub. A LOT of talent battling for remaining minutes, should be fun to watch.

This team should be able to score, and should have some strong defenders (at least among the guard/SF position).

100% agree. I imagine come January/February/March, There will be no more than a 8 man rotation. I am excited for those top 8 players

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

There is no reason for this team to be anything but really, really, really good. Hopefully they stay healthy this year, but this should be a big year. I've got plenty of concerns about Steele given the way the first three years have gone, but it's such a great sign that guys like Scruggs and Johnson wanted to come back for a fifth year. And even that KyKy eventually felt comfortable coming back. Can't wait to get going.

Agree completely. I hope the return of Scruggs + Johnson reflects their confidence in Steele and something I have not over the last three years. There is no need for any one individual (or even a couple) to have to carry this team. We have plenty of scorers. Now, we have frontcourt defense and rebounding as well.

But, we have lots of talent and others have pointed out how difficult it will be to find P.T. for twelve players. As I watched this team last year, I firmly concluded that Steele was way too rigid in his decision making. He had "small ball" alternatives that he never tried. Not saying that was the answer just that Steele seemed to lack imagination. I'm hoping I was wrong and that this year is the year we all see that Steele has grown into the job.

It is going to be difficult to keep twelve players happy---I'm not sure it is possible. But, one alternative I would like to see is an extremely aggressive, helping half court M2M defense. There is no need for any player to save his energy for offense as we have plenty of scoring power. This year rises (or falls) I think on defense, rebounding and Steele's ability to manage the game and the egos of his players.

I fear that Drudy23 is right. If we don't have a very good year, this board will implode. Still, today, I'm excited.

[xukeith]

What's this place going to do when Kunkel starts game 1 because of his practice points lol?

Hilarious.

[bleedXblue]

The first 7 guys are:

Johnson
Scruggs
Jones
Freemantle
Odom
Nunge
Hunter

Next 3 are:

Miles (for Nunge)
Kyky (for Johnson, Scruggs or Odom)
Kunkel (for Johnson primarily)

After that.....slim, slim minutes unless Tucker/Edwards just busts through and HAS to play

The KyKy/Kunkel thing is you have to go with who's hot. Right now PT goes to Kunkel b/c he a bit more multi dimensional and brings better D and BB IQ to the team.

[xavier513]

The first 7 guys are:

Johnson
Scruggs
Jones
Freemantle
Odom
Nunge
Hunter

Next 3 are:

Miles (for Nunge)
Kyky (for Johnson, Scruggs or Odom)
Kunkel (for Johnson primarily)

After that.....slim, slim minutes unless Tucker/Edwards just busts through and HAS to play

The KyKy/Kunkel thing is you have to go with who's hot. Right now PT goes to Kunkel b/c he a bit more multi dimensional and brings better D and BB IQ to the team.

Tucker is redshirting. I think it's safe to assume that Tandy and Edwards will barely see the floor this season. Tandy is basically a preferred walk on at this point and has been told so by the coaching staff, from what I understand. That would leave a 10 man rotation, that I think will dwindle to an 8 or 9 man rotation by the time conference play starts. All of this assumes no injuries, of course.

[markchal]

Stanley is a veteran player who is a very capable inside scorer...I'd have to think he ends up being higher than Miles in the rotation. I would LOVE to be wrong, and see Miles become a beastly rim protector/finisher, who would be a missing piece for this team to play a true 4-out-1-in system. And if Miles CAN turn it around and be a big contributor, that means anyone can do it, and I'd be loathe to write off Tandy.

But, until I see it, I think Stanley is the third big in the rotation.

[Xville]

Tucker is redshirting. I think it's safe to assume that Tandy and Edwards will barely see the floor this season. Tandy is basically a preferred walk on at this point and has been told so by the coaching staff, from what I understand. That would leave a 10 man rotation, that I think will dwindle to an 8 or 9 man rotation by the time conference play starts. All of this assumes no injuries, of course.

If true, I have no idea why he stayed. Maybe he just loves the school and wants to get a great education.

[Final4]

Tandy is basically a preferred walk on at this point and has been told so by the coaching staff, from what I understand.

So you’re saying that they pulled Tandy’s scholarship……..by definition a walk on, preferred or otherwise, is a non-scholarship player. I don’t believe that for a second.

[XUGRAD80]

While I do appreciate the need and desire to remain positive in life, I think that some of you guys are looking through rose colored glasses when you look at this team. Time to cool the jets and the expectations a bit and look at reality.

What they have coming back is: the core of a 19 win team that has failed to make the tournament the last 3 years.

What they have coming in is: a couple of transfers that were not starters where they where before. Both of them coming off of injures and one still unable to go full court, and a couple of freshman. One of which will redshirt and the other is a complete question mark at this time.

Now the BB Gods might smile on this team and Kunkle might regain his 38% 3-point shot. Fremantle might heal quickly and learn how to play defense and rebound against bigger stronger players. Odom might have developed a dependable outside shot. Scruggs might become the top player we all hoped he would. Etc. etc. etc down the line. Each and every player out there has some strengths, but they also have a lot of weaknesses. This coaching staff has not yet proven that they can develop players on a consistent basis. There is potential only at this point and almost nothing, and no one, is a proven commodity. I’d love to sit here and say that I expect this team to get better and better as the year goes on, but it’s been the exact opposite the last few years. The teams have started well and faded. I’m keeping my optimism in check for now.

[XUGRAD80]

So you’re saying that they pulled Tandy’s scholarship……..by definition a walk on, preferred or otherwise, is a non-scholarship player. I don’t believe that for a second.

The key word in his statement was “basically”. I’m sure he is still on scholarship and that’s how he is listed on the roster. But that doesn’t mean that the staff is expecting much out of him. I suspect that baring a change in that he will get mop up minutes for the most part.

[markchal]

While I do appreciate the need and desire to remain positive in life, I think that some of you guys are looking through rose colored glasses when you look at this team. Time to cool the jets and the expectations a bit and look at reality.

What they have coming back is: the core of a 19 win team that has failed to make the tournament the last 3 years.



If there's ever a time to look through rose-colored glasses, it's the preseason. But also, the team does return like 80 percent of it's scoring/minutes? I forget the exact number but it's one of the highest amount of returning players in ALL of college basketball. Scruggs and Johnson are two of the most experienced players to ever put on the jersey. Odom and Jones are two of the best frosh we've seen in awhile. Freemantle was arguably our most consistent player last year (16/9) and the transfers (on paper!) are exactly what we were missing.

This may not be a surefire top 15 team, but it is the best roster Travis Steele has had to date, and the expectations should follow that.

[XUGRAD80]

If there's ever a time to look through rose-colored glasses, it's the preseason. But also, the team does return like 80 percent of it's scoring/minutes? I forget the exact number but it's one of the highest amount of returning players in ALL of college basketball. Scruggs and Johnson are two of the most experienced players to ever put on the jersey. Odom and Jones are two of the best frosh we've seen in awhile. Freemantle was arguably our most consistent player last year (16/9) and the transfers (on paper!) are exactly what we were missing.

This may not be a surefire top 15 team, but it is the best roster Travis Steele has had to date, and the expectations should follow that.

Only potentially……potentially.

But not a single X team in some years has had so far as reached its potential.

[Xville]

There is plenty of talent on this team to make the tournament, beyond that is whatever. If they don't, that's a severe indictment on the coaching staff and I believe many feel that same way.

[MHettel]

Depth doesnt do a damn bit of good if it's sitting on the bench. We need to see a scheme that exploits this advantage. Just look back at some of the XU teams over the last 20 years. I would say that EVERY on of the top 11 players (all the returners and the 2 transfers) would have been a LOCK to start on some prior XU teams.

Take your pick: Ben Stanley or Isiah Philmore? Will Caudle or Miles? KyKy or Keith Jackson?

We have an advantage. We need to exploit it. If we roll out a 7-8 rotation, I'm officially done with Travis. And I dont CARE what the results are. I dont care if we win 25 games. We could win 27 if we exploited the depth.

[Smails]

Depth doesnt do a damn bit of good if it's sitting on the bench. We need to see a scheme that exploits this advantage. Just look back at some of the XU teams over the last 20 years. I would say that EVERY on of the top 11 players (all the returners and the 2 transfers) would have been a LOCK to start on some prior XU teams.

Take your pick: Ben Stanley or Isiah Philmore? Will Caudle or Miles? KyKy or Keith Jackson?

We have an advantage. We need to exploit it. If we roll out a 7-8 rotation, I'm officially done with Travis. And I dont CARE what the results are. I dont care if we win 25 games. We could win 27 if we exploited the depth.

What if they finish in the top 3 of the BE, earn a top 5 seed and play into the second weekend with an 8 man rotation? Would you still be done with Steele?

On the flip side, what if Steele plays 10 and they win 18 games?

Results be damned?

[xukeith]

Where is MHETTEL's long awaited stats analysis of returning players?
I have been anticipating the analysis as numbers don't lie.

[xukeith]

Depth doesnt do a damn bit of good if it's sitting on the bench. We need to see a scheme that exploits this advantage. Just look back at some of the XU teams over the last 20 years. I would say that EVERY on of the top 11 players (all the returners and the 2 transfers) would have been a LOCK to start on some prior XU teams.

Take your pick: Ben Stanley or Isiah Philmore? Will Caudle or Miles? KyKy or Keith Jackson?

We have an advantage. We need to exploit it. If we roll out a 7-8 rotation, I'm officially done with Travis. And I dont CARE what the results are. I dont care if we win 25 games. We could win 27 if we exploited the depth.

The only past team that X has had with a deep bench was in the mid 1990's team under Skip Prosser (Lumpkin, Brown, Posey, Williams, Braggs...) They pressed and and ran but only had some small success after being in NCAA tourney.

Oh yes then there is this:
Maybe Sean Miller's Brown, Lavender, Burrell, Duncan team is close to a deep team. He had a very good results (Elite 8).
I would say Jason Love is not so much more skilled than current X post players.

[whopper]

in each of the last 2 years we have had a starter (q and carter) who basically forgot how to play(that may be a simplification) that caused a gaping hole. Imagine last year being able to plug a healthy Stanley in for Carter..I think that would have been worth 2-3 wins but the stop and go nature made him not quite in game shape. I hope he gets a good shot this year as his 40 pt game against Howard (admittedly not Villamova but have made tournament recently)is very impressive and did not seem to have plays called for him

[MHettel]

Where is MHETTEL's long awaited stats analysis of returning players?
I have been anticipating the analysis as numbers don't lie.

For the last few years I've done a "career wrap" for players that have moved on. I waited on Scruggs, and then he decided to come back. I rarely do an analysis (that I publish) on players that have eligibility left....but I could.

Maybe I will produce a "mix tape" of interesting metrics and stats of our returners.

[MHettel]

The only past team that X has had with a deep bench was in the mid 1990's team under Skip Prosser (Lumpkin, Brown, Posey, Williams, Braggs...) They pressed and and ran but only had some small success after being in NCAA tourney.

Oh yes then there is this:
Maybe Sean Miller's Brown, Lavender, Burrell, Duncan team is close to a deep team. He had a very good results (Elite 8).
I would say Jason Love is not so much more skilled than current X post players.

I decided to look up that late 90's squad you refer to. That group played together for 2 years. There were SIX key guys; Lenny, Gary, Darnell, Torraye, TJ and POSEY (as the 6th man). Not a single other player started a game during this 2 year period. And, this group of guys only missed TWO games TOTAL in this 2 year stretch.

My conclusion: this team was NOT deep beyond the top 6. During the first season, Sherwin Anderson was the only other player to play every game (11.3 mpg), and in fact the NEXT player (T. Payne) only played 18 of 29 games and averaged 4.4 minutes. In the next Season, McAfee played 28 of 30 games and averaged only 8.9 minutes.

The top 6 players played 87% of all possible minutes in the first year and 89% of the minutes the second year.

Translate that to just a single game where there are 200 total minutes. Your first 6 guys played 89% or 177 minutes. Players 7 thru X on the bench get the remaining 23 minutes.

Lets compare this to 2019 (throw out 2020 with too much roster turmoil). We had essentially 6 guys that started games (Naji, Paul, Tyrique, Q, Hankins, and Castlin) and then main subs of Welage, Harden and kennedy. In that year, our Top 6 guys played 81% of the total minutes. Welage was a specialist and played a fair amount of minutes. Our next 3 subs (Harden, Kennedy, and James) played 651 minutes out of necessity, and ultimately all those guys were non-contributors and transferred out.

So ask yourself, how would that 2019 team have looked if we had a couple guys at the end of THIS years bench available to play some of those minutes that went to Harden and Kennedy? Add Kunkle to that team and it's a different team. Add Stanley and how is that team?

[bleedXblue]

The first 7 guys are:

Johnson
Scruggs
Jones
Freemantle
Odom
Nunge
Hunter

Next 3 are:

Miles (for Nunge)
Kyky (for Johnson, Scruggs or Odom)
Kunkel (for Johnson primarily)

After that.....slim, slim minutes unless Tucker/Edwards just busts through and HAS to play

The KyKy/Kunkel thing is you have to go with who's hot. Right now PT goes to Kunkel b/c he a bit more multi dimensional and brings better D and BB IQ to the team.

I'm an idiot. I forgot Stanley who slides in and makes 11 guys ready to play and contribute.

[MHettel]

I would say Jason Love is not so much more skilled than current X post players.

Ok, THIS comments requires it's own response.

First of all, I would consider Jason Love to be probably the MOST underrated player we've seen at XU in the last 30 years.

Love had a very typical career where he didnt really play as a freshman, got rotation minutes as a soph and then became a mainstay as a Jr & Sr. He played with a number of other solid frontcourt players during his tenure (Duncan, Brown, CJ, Frease, & McLean). And, in the 3 years that he played a meaningful role the team went 83-24.

Since Love never played a ton of minutes (28 minutes was his max MPG), his "counting stats" dont jump off the page at you. But he was certainly efficient and productive.

On a "per minute" basis, and compared to a pool of 79 other recent XU players (for some players, I dont have the number of minutes they played, and dont have OReb numbers for a few):
- Love was 44th out of 59 players in shot attempts per minute.
- Love was 12th in FG% out of 80 players.
- Love was 12th out of 59 players in FT Attempts per minute
- Love was 10th out of 80 players in % of points scored from the FT Line.
- Love was 5th out of 55 players in ORebs per minute
- Love was 10th out of 55 players in DRebs per minute
- Out of a population of just "Big Men", Love was 10th or 23 in DREB per minute
- Love was 7th of 59 in total Rebs per minute
- Love was 5th out of 59 in Blocks per minute
- Love was 35th out of 59 In Points per minute

Overall, you have a guy that doesn't shoot much, but does shoot well. Gets to the line quite often in spite of not shooting much. Rebounds and blocks shots at a high level. His assists, Steals and TOs totals were not noteworthy. He never took a 3.

In addition to the quality Bigs he played with, he was surrounded by firepower: Crawford, Tu, Lyons, BJ, Lavender, Burrell, and to a lesser extent Dante and Redford.

This guy was the perfect fit on a really good squad for 3 years. He managed to go under the radar given some of his teammates, but make no mistake he was as essential as nearly every one of those other players.

I'd take Jason Love on ANY team.

[XUBison]

Ok, THIS comments requires it's own response.

First of all, I would consider Jason Love to be probably the MOST underrated player we've seen at XU in the last 30 years.

Love had a very typical career where he didnt really play as a freshman, got rotation minutes as a soph and then became a mainstay as a Jr & Sr. He played with a number of other solid frontcourt players during his tenure (Duncan, Brown, CJ, Frease, & McLean). And, in the 3 years that he played a meaningful role the team went 83-24.

Since Love never played a ton of minutes (28 minutes was his max MPG), his "counting stats" dont jump off the page at you. But he was certainly efficient and productive.

On a "per minute" basis, and compared to a pool of 79 other recent XU players (for some players, I dont have the number of minutes they played, and dont have OReb numbers for a few):
- Love was 44th out of 59 players in shot attempts per minute.
- Love was 12th in FG% out of 80 players.
- Love was 12th out of 59 players in FT Attempts per minute
- Love was 10th out of 80 players in % of points scored from the FT Line.
- Love was 5th out of 55 players in ORebs per minute
- Love was 10th out of 55 players in DRebs per minute
- Out of a population of just "Big Men", Love was 10th or 23 in DREB per minute
- Love was 7th of 59 in total Rebs per minute
- Love was 5th out of 59 in Blocks per minute
- Love was 35th out of 59 In Points per minute

Overall, you have a guy that doesn't shoot much, but does shoot well. Gets to the line quite often in spite of not shooting much. Rebounds and blocks shots at a high level. His assists, Steals and TOs totals were not noteworthy. He never took a 3.

In addition to the quality Bigs he played with, he was surrounded by firepower: Crawford, Tu, Lyons, BJ, Lavender, Burrell, and to a lesser extent Dante and Redford.

This guy was the perfect fit on a really good squad for 3 years. He managed to go under the radar given some of his teammates, but make no mistake he was as essential as nearly every one of those other players.

I'd take Jason Love on ANY team.

I would agree with this even if you didn’t have the stats to back it up.

[xukeith]

Thanks so much! I eat this stuff up!

Yes Jason Love was valuable. A good staple of consistency on a lot of great teams.
My all time favorite player is Cage.

I thought Prosser's teams ran more than they did. My blunder.

[xukeith]

Going through season by season for X, most teams were 6-7 deep.
Two of Sean Miller's X squads played 8 players regularly.
Proving I am old, I recall the 1993/94 team and they were deeper than average. Walker, Grant, Massey, Sears, Sykes, Hawkins, Gentry, Edwards, and Anderson.

Oh the memories of a disappointing NIT season

[GIMMFD]

Not nearly as concerned about the offense. We have enough firepower. How well these players guard on the perimeter and how well they defend in the paint is going to tell us how good this team can be. Will Miles, Nance and even Feee show they can defend and rebound well this year? Let’s hope so.

One encouraging thought about this team: We have a number of players who are not afraid to step up and be “the guy” at the end of a game (and teammates who trust those players). We have seen Odom, Jones, Johnson, Scruggs, Freemantle and even Kunkel step into that role last season.

I'm kinda worried about our shooting from three to be honest, last season the slump of shooting was absolutely miserable, I was thinking any game now, it'll end, we'll shoot AVERAGE, and it just didn't happen time after time... there's definitely a lot of potential, but I hope the confidence is there.

[bobbiemcgee]

Norlander still likes Kyky. Me too>

25. Xavier: The Big East is too well-rounded not to have two schools in the top 25. Given how the Musketeers bring back nine guys, then welcome in C Jack Nunge from Iowa and PF Jerome Hunter from IU, this is a fairly appealing roster with a second-weekend-in-March ceiling. There are eight returnees who put up averages between 10.0 and 32.7 minutes. It should by far be Travis Steele's best team, and he knows it. The success will likely start with shooting guard Paul Scruggs, but I remain a KyKy Tandy fan. Prototypically fun Big East point guard. X has size too; five players between 6-8 and 7-0 will get run. Expect Steele and his staff to roll out a variety of looks to their advantage, and in doing so, reliably use at least 10 players consistently. X hasn't had an NCAA Tournament team since Chris Mack left for Louisville. That changes in '22.

[UCGRAD4X]

While I do appreciate the need and desire to remain positive in life, I think that some of you guys are looking through rose colored glasses when you look at this team. Time to cool the jets and the expectations a bit and look at reality.

What they have coming back is: the core of a 19 win team that has failed to make the tournament the last 3 years.

What they have coming in is: a couple of transfers that were not starters where they where before. Both of them coming off of injures and one still unable to go full court, and a couple of freshman. One of which will redshirt and the other is a complete question mark at this time.

Now the BB Gods might smile on this team and Kunkle might regain his 38% 3-point shot. Fremantle might heal quickly and learn how to play defense and rebound against bigger stronger players. Odom might have developed a dependable outside shot. Scruggs might become the top player we all hoped he would. Etc. etc. etc down the line. Each and every player out there has some strengths, but they also have a lot of weaknesses. This coaching staff has not yet proven that they can develop players on a consistent basis. There is potential only at this point and almost nothing, and no one, is a proven commodity. I’d love to sit here and say that I expect this team to get better and better as the year goes on, but it’s been the exact opposite the last few years. The teams have started well and faded. I’m keeping my optimism in check for now.

This is exactly the time to be positive, feel good about the potential, even if inflated it a bit. There has been so little to feel positive about the last few years - Mack's ignominious exit and the following Travis travesty. You may be right that this year may ultimately be more of the same and this board may indeed implode, but that potential is even more of a reason to be positive now.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Depth doesnt do a damn bit of good if it's sitting on the bench. We need to see a scheme that exploits this advantage. Just look back at some of the XU teams over the last 20 years. I would say that EVERY on of the top 11 players (all the returners and the 2 transfers) would have been a LOCK to start on some prior XU teams.

Take your pick: Ben Stanley or Isiah Philmore? Will Caudle or Miles? KyKy or Keith Jackson?

We have an advantage. We need to exploit it. If we roll out a 7-8 rotation, I'm officially done with Travis. And I dont CARE what the results are. I dont care if we win 25 games. We could win 27 if we exploited the depth.

100% agree. One of the primary assumptions most posters have is that Steele will ultimately settle in on an 8-9 player rotation. True, that's what occurs on most teams. But, despite what XUGRAD 80 says, I believe this team has deepest talent pool in years. Or, at least, appears to have that level of talent. Absent injuries, if Steele reverts to his prior year's rigid game mgmt and substitution patterns, I think I may give up on him. You are right. He needs to exploit his advantage.

[XUGRAD80]

This is exactly the time to be positive, feel good about the potential, even if inflated it a bit. There has been so little to feel positive about the last few years - Mack's ignominious exit and the following Travis travesty. You may be right that this year may ultimately be more of the same and this board may indeed implode, but that potential is even more of a reason to be positive now.

Possibly correct BUT……if and when they do disappoint who will get the blame? Probably Steele, and I’m sure he will earn some of it. However, some of it should also fall on the players. Except that if the expectations, and analysis of the teams real abilities, were based more fact and less emotion, the angst would probably be less. What I keep reading (and have year after year in the preseason) in the posts here is about how the team is so deep and the players so skilled. But I guess you can just say that after reading it year after year, and after the actual results year after year, I’m just skeptical.

[Xville]

Possibly correct BUT……if and when they do disappoint who will get the blame? Probably Steele, and I’m sure he will earn some of it. However, some of it should also fall on the players. Except that if the expectations, and analysis of the teams real abilities, were based more fact and less emotion, the angst would probably be less. What I keep reading (and have year after year in the preseason) in the posts here is about how the team is so deep and the players so skilled. But I guess you can just say that after reading it year after year, and after the actual results year after year, I’m just skeptical.

If they don’t make the tournament, it’s on Steele. There is enough talent on this team to make the tourney plain and simple.

[bleedXblue]

This is a pretty easy year to gauge Steele IMHO. Year #4 in his tenure.

Barring a rash of injuries, he has the talent to be Top 5 in the league and go to the NCAA. If those don't happen most of the responsibility and blame will squarely be on his shoulders.

[RetireFiftyTu]

I'm kinda worried about our shooting from three to be honest, last season the slump of shooting was absolutely miserable, I was thinking any game now, it'll end, we'll shoot AVERAGE, and it just didn't happen time after time... there's definitely a lot of potential, but I hope the confidence is there.

Same here. In theory this team should be an average-good 3 point shooting team. But..

Last three years under Steele from 3

2018-2019: 33.1%, 236th nationally
2019-2020: 31.2%, 282nd nationally
2020-2021: 32.5%, 229th nationally
Total: 32.3%, 288th nationally over last 3 years

Only 11 power conference teams have been worse over the last 3 years. In Big East play over the last 3 seasons Xavier is dead last in the league in 3P% as well. Have to shoot the ball at least at a respectable level. It's really hard in this day and age to win if you don't.

[xukeith]

Can this team be above average on the defensive end? Scruggs, Johnson and Jones play above average defense.

Hunter and Freemantle don't have the good defensive reputation Scruggs or Johnson have.

Can having Miles and Nunge consistently protecting the rim, allow X to play more aggressive defense?

Nunge says he prides himself on defense. We shall see.

[Xer4ever]

[QUOTE=RetireFiftyTu;709457]Same here. In theory this team should be an average-good 3 point shooting team. But..

Last three years under Steele from 3

2018-2019: 33.1%, 236th nationally
2019-2020: 31.2%, 282nd nationally
2020-2021: 32.5%, 229th nationally
Total: 32.3%, 288th nationally over last 3 years

Only 11 power conference teams have been worse over the last 3 years. In Big East play over the last 3 seasons Xavier is dead last in the league in 3P% as well. Have to shoot the ball at least at a respectable level. It's really hard in this day and age to win if you don't.

You nailed it. Period. We can talk about defense and rebounding, but these shooting stats must change dramatically for X to reach their goals this year. And I believe they will.

[XUGRAD80]

If they don’t make the tournament, it’s on Steele. There is enough talent on this team to make the tourney plain and simple.

Realistically this team doesn’t have any proven consistent 3 point shooters, has defensive and rebounding deficiencies, and as I’ve pointed out before the transfers and some of the returners are coming off of injury. To my mind there are a ton of question marks in the roster. They could be really good, but there is no guarantee. I’m not convinced that this roster is all some of y’all are making it out to be.

[Xville]

Realistically this team doesn’t have any proven consistent 3 point shooters, has defensive and rebounding deficiencies, and as I’ve pointed out before the transfers and some of the returners are coming off of injury. To my mind there are a ton of question marks in the roster. They could be really good, but there is no guarantee. I’m not convinced that this roster is all some of y’all are making it out to be.

Ok..say that’s the case, that is also steeles fault and there should be consequences. It will have been 4 years, that’s a ton of time in college basketball. If he can’t recruit or develop players enough or manage the roster well enough after 4 years, then a change should be made. And don’t give me the bs covid excuse either..everyone had to deal with it.

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, this year is 100% on Steele for better or worse. The roster is his.

[XUGRAD80]

Ok..say that’s the case, that is also steeles fault and there should be consequences. It will have been 4 years, that’s a ton of time in college basketball. If he can’t recruit or develop players enough or manage the roster well enough after 4 years, then a change should be made. And don’t give me the bs covid excuse either..everyone had to deal with it.

Ok, THAT I will agree with. The coaching staff has not shown the ability to develop players on a consistent level. They have had A LOT of swings and misses on recruits and transfers. Based on that track record, I’m not near as bullish on this roster as some seem to be. We hear every off-season about how much better a player will be than they were the year before. Yet, I haven’t seen it. Nor do I expect to see it this year. I very much hope that I am pleasantly surprised, but I’m not counting on it.

Is that Steel’s fault? Absolutely, if not 100% it’s at least a 50-50 proposition between the players and the coaches. But I do place at least SOME of the blame on the players themselves. It not only takes the players being willing to work on their own to develop an all round good game, though. It takes good coaching, too. It is a partnership between the player and the coaches. The coaches can’t MAKE the players better, they can only point the way. It’s then on the players to go down the correct path and to put in the extra work needed. Every team practices 2 hours a day. If all a player does is come to practice and work hard they are only doing what every other player is doing. The players that want to really improve and want to be better than the other players have to put in the EXTRA work, often on their own. It’s up to the coaches to give them the correct instruction, the opportunity to put in the work to get better, and then to put them in a position where they can succeed.

[Strange Brew]

Realistically this team doesn’t have any proven consistent 3 point shooters, has defensive and rebounding deficiencies, and as I’ve pointed out before the transfers and some of the returners are coming off of injury. To my mind there are a ton of question marks in the roster. They could be really good, but there is no guarantee. I’m not convinced that this roster is all some of y’all are making it out to be.

Did Johnson come back?

[MHettel]

[QUOTE=RetireFiftyTu;709457]Same here. In theory this team should be an average-good 3 point shooting team. But..

Last three years under Steele from 3

2018-2019: 33.1%, 236th nationally
2019-2020: 31.2%, 282nd nationally
2020-2021: 32.5%, 229th nationally
Total: 32.3%, 288th nationally over last 3 years

Only 11 power conference teams have been worse over the last 3 years. In Big East play over the last 3 seasons Xavier is dead last in the league in 3P% as well. Have to shoot the ball at least at a respectable level. It's really hard in this day and age to win if you don't.

You nailed it. Period. We can talk about defense and rebounding, but these shooting stats must change dramatically for X to reach their goals this year. And I believe they will.

This is PART of the story, for sure....but not the whole story.

The 3Pt accuracy has been bad. I have 32 years of team data, and in the last 3 seasons the 3PT shooting percentage has ranked #28, #31, and #30. So, you would have to assume that because you are a poor shooting team, you might be inclined to take less threes.....yes?

NO! Again in a 32 year period, our 3PT attempts per game rankings were #3, #5, & #1. We took the most amount of 3's per game in 32 years last year while being the #30 ranked most accurate team.

But, maybe that's pace, right? If you play with a faster pace, you take more shots in general....right?

YES, that is right, but it's not what happened. If you think about scoring from 2, scoring from3, or scoring from the FT line, you can determine the ratio of each...

And of course, in the last 3 years, our ratio of points scored from 3 ranks #7, #13, and #4 in the last 32 years. sigh. "if at first you dont succeed, keep jacking up bad threes until you CONVINCE yourself that you have succeeded"

But, uhh, maybe we took alot of threes because we weren't good at 2's???? maybe?

MAYBE NOT! Our 2PT shooting percentage ranked #3, #20, and #2 out of 32 over the last 3 years.

Rule #1 in the Travis Steele handbook: "dont take advantage of your advantage"

Lets discuss the other way to score: FREE THROWS (they are fucking free for a reason). Maybe we should rename them to "Not as Free as you Might Think Throws"

FT attempts per Game rank for the last 3 years: #31, #30, #32. YEAH.

In terms of FT% we were: #27, #31, #21.

Break down the FT attempts a little more: 3 years under Steele, and we taken 17.6 FTs per game. In the 29 PRIOR YEARS, we average 24.2. That 6.6 less FT attempts per game. Lets just assume we shoot 71% from the line (our 32 year average) and that would translate to 4.7 points more PER GAME if we just took an AVERAGE amount of FTs.

I know this discussion started off about 3PT shooting %. But take this in.

ASSUME for a moment that last year, instead of shooting 32.5% (ranked #30), we shoot as well as we ever have (1993) and hit 40% of those shots. Well, we took 23.7 per game so instead of making 32.5% of them (7.7) we would have made 40% of them (9.5). Do the math that 1.8*3= 5.4 Points per Game. What if we just shot at our 32 year average (35.5%)...well thats good for only .7 more 3s. that's just 2 points per game.

So, we'd have to shoot out of our ass to make up that difference in points scored from 3, but we left almost that same amount of points at the FT line.

Here is the reality: We don't have a problem with players playing poorly. We have a problem with our offensive scheme that is designed around principles that don't result in offensive EFFICIENCY. Travis needs to have a "Moneyball Moment" and realize that his scheme sucks and he needs to play into our strengths. Use the 3 to keep the defense honest and focus on getting the ball inside where a) You score at a much higher rate, b) increase your chances of getting fouled and c) have a higher chance of grabbing an OREB off the miss.

The first few games are going to tell me everything I need know when it comes to Travis and his ability to continue to improve as a coach.

[bleedXblue]

[QUOTE=Xer4ever;709459]

This is PART of the story, for sure....but not the whole story.

The 3Pt accuracy has been bad. I have 32 years of team data, and in the last 3 seasons the 3PT shooting percentage has ranked #28, #31, and #30. So, you would have to assume that because you are a poor shooting team, you might be inclined to take less threes.....yes?

NO! Again in a 32 year period, our 3PT attempts per game rankings were #3, #5, & #1. We took the most amount of 3's per game in 32 years last year while being the #30 ranked most accurate team.

But, maybe that's pace, right? If you play with a faster pace, you take more shots in general....right?

YES, that is right, but it's not what happened. If you think about scoring from 2, scoring from3, or scoring from the FT line, you can determine the ratio of each...

And of course, in the last 3 years, our ratio of points scored from 3 ranks #7, #13, and #4 in the last 32 years. sigh. "if at first you dont succeed, keep jacking up bad threes until you CONVINCE yourself that you have succeeded"

But, uhh, maybe we took alot of threes because we weren't good at 2's???? maybe?

MAYBE NOT! Our 2PT shooting percentage ranked #3, #20, and #2 out of 32 over the last 3 years.

Rule #1 in the Travis Steele handbook: "dont take advantage of your advantage"

Lets discuss the other way to score: FREE THROWS (they are fucking free for a reason). Maybe we should rename them to "Not as Free as you Might Think Throws"

FT attempts per Game rank for the last 3 years: #31, #30, #32. YEAH.

In terms of FT% we were: #27, #31, #21.

Break down the FT attempts a little more: 3 years under Steele, and we taken 17.6 FTs per game. In the 29 PRIOR YEARS, we average 24.2. That 6.6 less FT attempts per game. Lets just assume we shoot 71% from the line (our 32 year average) and that would translate to 4.7 points more PER GAME if we just took an AVERAGE amount of FTs.

I know this discussion started off about 3PT shooting %. But take this in.

ASSUME for a moment that last year, instead of shooting 32.5% (ranked #30), we shoot as well as we ever have (1993) and hit 40% of those shots. Well, we took 23.7 per game so instead of making 32.5% of them (7.7) we would have made 40% of them (9.5). Do the math that 1.8*3= 5.4 Points per Game. What if we just shot at our 32 year average (35.5%)...well thats good for only .7 more 3s. that's just 2 points per game.

So, we'd have to shoot out of our ass to make up that difference in points scored from 3, but we left almost that same amount of points at the FT line.

Here is the reality: We don't have a problem with players playing poorly. We have a problem with our offensive scheme that is designed around principles that don't result in offensive EFFICIENCY. Travis needs to have a "Moneyball Moment" and realize that his scheme sucks and he needs to play into our strengths. Use the 3 to keep the defense honest and focus on getting the ball inside where a) You score at a much higher rate, b) increase your chances of getting fouled and c) have a higher chance of grabbing an OREB off the miss.

The first few games are going to tell me everything I need know when it comes to Travis and his ability to continue to improve as a coach.

WELL DONE !!

[xukeith]

Stainbrook and Hankins were above average transfers. X ,in the past, has had some good role players that usually play defense and rebound.

Nunge and Hunter are not expected to average double figures. They should get to the line, rebound , score when open ,and play strong defense

Anything more offensively is fantastic. Unlike past Steele teams, this team is much longer and taller at every position. They should greatly help defense.

On paper, longer, taller players should disrupt passing lanes and increase turnovers.
They should greatly help defense.
I imagine the bulk of the scoring will be shared by Scruggs, Freemantle, Johnson, Jones, and Hunter/Kunkel.

Last season Carter played defense and rebounded. He was not much of an offensive threat(we all know that). He is now replaced by a combo of Nunge/Hunter/Edwards/ Miles/Stanley. Will they all play? Probably not. Are they better than past big men? Under Steele, yes.
Those 5 can contribute and not be a detriment to some mild efficiency .

I am not putting a lot of money betting on transfers. We hit the transfer lottery with Johnson but he is the exception.

[bleedXblue]

Stainbrook and Hankins were above average transfers. X ,in the past, has had some good role players that usually play defense and rebound.

Nunge and Hunter are not expected to average double figure. They should get to the line, rebound ,and play strong defense

Anything more offensively is fantastic. Unlike past Steele teams, this team is much longer and taller.
That should greatly help defense.
Returners will take care of the scoring and assists.

Hunter is NOT known for his defense and doesn't shoot the 3 particularly well. Mystery to me why he was brought in. Hoping he has some kind of epiphany.

[Xville]

Hunter is NOT known for his defense and doesn't shoot the 3 particularly well. Mystery to me why he was brought in. Hoping he has some kind of epiphany.

34% isn't horrible, better than most of the team last year (probably more of an indictment of the team)...6'8 215 and long. Interested to see him now in his third year.

[bleedXblue]

34% isn't horrible, better than most of the team last year (probably more of an indictment of the team)...6'8 215 and long. Interested to see him now in his third year.

How does 51% from FT line grab you?

Now, if he was known as a defensive stud and rebounder, I could understand the need and fit for this team.

Again, hoping with some new scenery he's a different player than the first two years at IU.

[Xville]

How does 51% from FT line grab you?

Now, if he was known as a defensive stud and rebounder, I could understand the need and fit for this team.

Again, hoping with some new scenery he's a different player than the first two years at IU.

Oh don’t get me wrong I was certainly scratching my head on the pickup, and Steele doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt at this point. I’m hoping a top 50 recruit starts to realize some potential.

[paulxu]

Look at the bright side; we won't have long in-game threads devoted to wondering why Carter is in the lineup.

[MHettel]

Thanks so much! I eat this stuff up!

Yes Jason Love was valuable. A good staple of consistency on a lot of great teams.
My all time favorite player is Cage.

I thought Prosser's teams ran more than they did. My blunder.

By the way, Prosser's teams DID run as much as you remember. The problem was that he tried to do it with a short 6-7 man rotation. His guys got gassed and it showed. And then if there was any foul trouble, they would have to bring in a guy that played infrequently, and that would show as well.

If you are going to play up-tempo, part of the goal is to wear out the other team. Then you use your depth to take advantage of their lack of depth. Pressuring the ball full court is incredibly demanding on the opposing ball-handler. Get the other team's lead guard out of the game, and the turnover fest begins.

[xufan2020]

[QUOTE=Xer4ever;709459]

This is PART of the story, for sure....but not the whole story.

The 3Pt accuracy has been bad. I have 32 years of team data, and in the last 3 seasons the 3PT shooting percentage has ranked #28, #31, and #30. So, you would have to assume that because you are a poor shooting team, you might be inclined to take less threes.....yes?

NO! Again in a 32 year period, our 3PT attempts per game rankings were #3, #5, & #1. We took the most amount of 3's per game in 32 years last year while being the #30 ranked most accurate team.

But, maybe that's pace, right? If you play with a faster pace, you take more shots in general....right?

YES, that is right, but it's not what happened. If you think about scoring from 2, scoring from3, or scoring from the FT line, you can determine the ratio of each...

And of course, in the last 3 years, our ratio of points scored from 3 ranks #7, #13, and #4 in the last 32 years. sigh. "if at first you dont succeed, keep jacking up bad threes until you CONVINCE yourself that you have succeeded"

But, uhh, maybe we took alot of threes because we weren't good at 2's???? maybe?

MAYBE NOT! Our 2PT shooting percentage ranked #3, #20, and #2 out of 32 over the last 3 years.

Rule #1 in the Travis Steele handbook: "dont take advantage of your advantage"

Lets discuss the other way to score: FREE THROWS (they are fucking free for a reason). Maybe we should rename them to "Not as Free as you Might Think Throws"

FT attempts per Game rank for the last 3 years: #31, #30, #32. YEAH.

In terms of FT% we were: #27, #31, #21.

Break down the FT attempts a little more: 3 years under Steele, and we taken 17.6 FTs per game. In the 29 PRIOR YEARS, we average 24.2. That 6.6 less FT attempts per game. Lets just assume we shoot 71% from the line (our 32 year average) and that would translate to 4.7 points more PER GAME if we just took an AVERAGE amount of FTs.

I know this discussion started off about 3PT shooting %. But take this in.

ASSUME for a moment that last year, instead of shooting 32.5% (ranked #30), we shoot as well as we ever have (1993) and hit 40% of those shots. Well, we took 23.7 per game so instead of making 32.5% of them (7.7) we would have made 40% of them (9.5). Do the math that 1.8*3= 5.4 Points per Game. What if we just shot at our 32 year average (35.5%)...well thats good for only .7 more 3s. that's just 2 points per game.

So, we'd have to shoot out of our ass to make up that difference in points scored from 3, but we left almost that same amount of points at the FT line.

Here is the reality: We don't have a problem with players playing poorly. We have a problem with our offensive scheme that is designed around principles that don't result in offensive EFFICIENCY. Travis needs to have a "Moneyball Moment" and realize that his scheme sucks and he needs to play into our strengths. Use the 3 to keep the defense honest and focus on getting the ball inside where a) You score at a much higher rate, b) increase your chances of getting fouled and c) have a higher chance of grabbing an OREB off the miss.

The first few games are going to tell me everything I need know when it comes to Travis and his ability to continue to improve as a coach.
Impressive post for the most part, good statistical research. But these parts are just a matter of opinion. Many have become accustomed to the Miller/Mack inside-out style of scoring more free throws than your opponent attempts, but it’s far from the only way to play basketball. Teams have made final fours/won national championships following the scheme you claim sucks. Plus I’m not so sure our roster is necessarily built to benefit from the style you’re talking about. That remains to be scene, but to say the first few games are going to be the end all be all is just not true. There‘re many things Steele needs to do to prove he’s taking strides as a coach. How many threes and free throws we attempt in the first few games, are very inconsequential and don’t account for matchups

[xukeith]

[QUOTE=MHettel;709476]
Impressive post for the most part, good statistical research. But these parts are just a matter of opinion. Many have become accustomed to the Miller/Mack inside-out style of scoring more free throws than your opponent attempts, but it’s far from the only way to play basketball. Teams have made final fours/won national championships following the scheme you claim sucks. Plus I’m not so sure our roster is necessarily built to benefit from the style you’re talking about. That remains to be scene, but to say the first few games are going to be the end all be all is just not true. There‘re many things Steele needs to do to prove he’s taking strides as a coach. How many threes and free throws we attempt in the first few games, are very inconsequential and don’t account for matchups

Just wait.
we should start a poll on who will be the first person to posts "Fire Steele!"after the exhibition..

We will know if practice helps Xavier this year.

[MHettel]

[QUOTE=MHettel;709476]
Impressive post for the most part, good statistical research. But these parts are just a matter of opinion. Many have become accustomed to the Miller/Mack inside-out style of scoring more free throws than your opponent attempts, but it’s far from the only way to play basketball. Teams have made final fours/won national championships following the scheme you claim sucks. Plus I’m not so sure our roster is necessarily built to benefit from the style you’re talking about. That remains to be scene, but to say the first few games are going to be the end all be all is just not true. There‘re many things Steele needs to do to prove he’s taking strides as a coach. How many threes and free throws we attempt in the first few games, are very inconsequential and don’t account for matchups

HMMM. So for 3 years we ran a scheme that resulted in taking more 3's than we had taken in 32 years, and we missed more than we ever had before. And we weren't taking as many 2's as before, but we were making those. And were were not really getting to the line at the same rate as the prior 29 years. And we were losing. Three years of this.

And by the way, I didn't say that scheme sucked. I said it was the wrong scheme for the players we had. Which is most certainly was as evidenced by the lousy results.

Now, I'm in favor of an up tempo scheme that would exploit our depth. If this roster is NOT built for that, then you will need to explain to me what it IS built for.....really good 5 on 5 scrimmages in practice?

here is what I know: a) for YEARS we lived off of getting to the FT line and we had our best success ever. b) our current coach implemented a scheme that didnt match his personnel and we had poor results c) the coach demonstrated that he was committed to this scheme in spite of the results. d) Our current roster doesn't really look that much different than last year, aside from considerably more depth.

So will Travis stick to this scheme that he's NEVER been successful with? Using essentially the same players? Or will he design a scheme BASED on the players? I don't need to see any more than a handful of games to know where Travis stands. If we stick to this scheme we may have some success. But that doesn't mean we've maximized the POTENTIAL success of this team.

I need 5 games to know. Thats it. I need to see the lineups and rotations, and just get a sense for whether we attack the rim or not. And this is ALL about Offense. Defense doesn't matter*. If we are not efficient offensively (points per possession as an example), we're gonna be mediocre at best. (* if you are winning games with a great defense to make up for an inefficient offense, then you are doomed).

this is all about whether the coach has enough awareness to assess how things are working and make the necessary adjustments or large scale changes. We (finally) saw Steele insert Hankins into the starting lineup 3 years ago, but it was just a little too late. it was the right decision (to his credit), but just not soon enough.

Last year, he benched (didnt start) Carter in the second to last game after back to back games where he played a total of 42 minutes and scored zero points on 0-4 shooting and had 9 rebounds. And in the game where he was benched he scored zero points in nine minutes with 1 rebound. THEN HE STARTS HIM AGAIN and he plays 35 minutes and goes 3-11 with 9 points and 5 rebounds. Season OVER. Like WHAT THE HELL? Carter made 8 threes last year and 18.2% from distance. He went 10 games in a row down the stretch where he didnt make a 3 (0-13). Our record was 5-5 down the stretch and Carter was playing 23 minutes a game. This is what I'm talking about. He may have loved the "little things" that Carter did, but we were 4 on5 on offense, and essentially a .500 team with Carter out there. We all saw it. Why didnt the guy in charge?

If he cant make adjustments, then Steele is over his head as a HC. he seems like a genuinely good dude and great recruiter. But only 80 minutes matter each week.

[MHettel]

[QUOTE=xufan2020;709496]


We will know if practice helps Xavier this year.

I realize last year was a weird one. But the results were too similar to the prior 2 years to have me believe that we were disproportionately impacted by Covid. Missing wide open 3's is not something that is caused by not having enough team practices. Thats caused by having mediocre shooters and having an offense that is designed to create open shots for them.

[paulxu]

Stats only a Mhettel could love:

https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=5527

https://haslametrics.com/ratings.php


The baselines are a conservative preseason placement of teams based on team performance over the last three seasons, 2020-21 efficiency ratings, returning production, incoming transfers, frosh recruiting rankings, and head coaching changes. (2/5)

https://twitter.com/haslametrics/status/1449060533974491138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1449060533974491138%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.basketballforum.com%2Fth reads%2Faround-the-league.572122%2Fpage-331

[MHettel]

Stats only a Mhettel could love:

https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=5527

https://haslametrics.com/ratings.php



https://twitter.com/haslametrics/status/1449060533974491138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1449060533974491138%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.basketballforum.com%2Fth reads%2Faround-the-league.572122%2Fpage-331

I'm booked solid for the next 2 weeks now.

[GIMMFD]

If they don’t make the tournament, it’s on Steele. There is enough talent on this team to make the tourney plain and simple.
Yup, it's been 4 years, full roster of your guys to put your identity on the team, and a system in place. The talent level is HIGH on this team, we're arguing about running an 11 deep roster, even if it's trimmed to 8-9, guys push each other in practice. Steele HAS to make the tournament this year in my opinion.


Same here. In theory this team should be an average-good 3 point shooting team. But..

Last three years under Steele from 3

2018-2019: 33.1%, 236th nationally
2019-2020: 31.2%, 282nd nationally
2020-2021: 32.5%, 229th nationally
Total: 32.3%, 288th nationally over last 3 years

Only 11 power conference teams have been worse over the last 3 years. In Big East play over the last 3 seasons Xavier is dead last in the league in 3P% as well. Have to shoot the ball at least at a respectable level. It's really hard in this day and age to win if you don't.

Only bright side is Nate's coming back, he had a little cold stretch too, but man I'll never forget that Oklahoma game, he absolutely lit it up, and if what Steele says is true about him becoming even more athletic, I think he could be consistent. I just don't really see it from anybody else, and that's more of a confidence issue than anything. Scruggs can be hot or cold, Tandy is a volume shooter, Odom... next, Kunk... jury's out, it'll be interesting to see this trend.



Here is the reality: We don't have a problem with players playing poorly. We have a problem with our offensive scheme that is designed around principles that don't result in offensive EFFICIENCY. Travis needs to have a "Moneyball Moment" and realize that his scheme sucks and he needs to play into our strengths. Use the 3 to keep the defense honest and focus on getting the ball inside where a) You score at a much higher rate, b) increase your chances of getting fouled and c) have a higher chance of grabbing an OREB off the miss.

The first few games are going to tell me everything I need know when it comes to Travis and his ability to continue to improve as a coach.

And I guess this, public and private reps for the deep dive and statistical analysis, this is brilliant work. This really helps to put into perspective some of our problems (and why the bored is irate about Steele at times)

[Strange Brew]

Look at the bright side; we won't have long in-game threads devoted to wondering why Carter is in the lineup.

Don’t worry, we X fans will find the next guy to blame for poor coaching decisions.

[Xville]

Don’t worry, we X fans will find the next guy to blame for poor coaching decisions.

I nominate Kunkel as tribute.

[Strange Brew]

I nominate Kunkel as tribute.

Haha! To the altar atop the temple of misplaced rage!

[GoMuskies]

There's no chance Kunkel can be as awful as Carter. Carter being gone is my favorite thing about this year's roster.

[Xville]

There's no chance Kunkel can be as awful as Carter. Carter being gone is my favorite thing about this year's roster.

Agreed. Kunkel is fine.. just as long as he isn’t starting every game and playing 25+ minutes

[Strange Brew]

Agreed. Kunkel is fine.. just as long as he isn’t starting every game and playing 25+ minutes

But what if he’s First Team All-Practice?

Disclaimer: To non regular readers of this board we are not disparaging any player (except Go, he’s incorrigible). We are making fun of ourselves and how we misplace “bad feelings” about losses.

[GoMuskies]

Hey, these guys are pros now. We can disparage to our heart's content! I'm sure Jason Carter is a very nice person and will sell the hell out of some insurance someday!

[Xville]

Didn’t know where to put this but just saw on the ticker that wilchers brother just committed to unc. Guess they were never a package deal

[Strange Brew]

Hey, these guys are pros now. We can disparage to our heart's content! I'm sure Jason Carter is a very nice person and will sell the hell out of some insurance someday!

What’s wrong with insurance Danny, I own a two polices?

[Xuperman]

Really good interview from John Fanta on the upcoming X season. With Travis the first 20 minutes (ok some of your typical coach speak), then with Baum and the Musketeer Report dude Rick the last 28.

https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1448287984881651719?s=10

Here is the direct link on YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcCXhZd1Q28&feature=youtu.be

This is definitely a must see!

[xufan2020]

[QUOTE=xufan2020;709496]

HMMM. So for 3 years we ran a scheme that resulted in taking more 3's than we had taken in 32 years, and we missed more than we ever had before. And we weren't taking as many 2's as before, but we were making those. And were were not really getting to the line at the same rate as the prior 29 years. And we were losing. Three years of this.

And by the way, I didn't say that scheme sucked. I said it was the wrong scheme for the players we had. Which is most certainly was as evidenced by the lousy results.

Now, I'm in favor of an up tempo scheme that would exploit our depth. If this roster is NOT built for that, then you will need to explain to me what it IS built for.....really good 5 on 5 scrimmages in practice?

here is what I know: a) for YEARS we lived off of getting to the FT line and we had our best success ever. b) our current coach implemented a scheme that didnt match his personnel and we had poor results c) the coach demonstrated that he was committed to this scheme in spite of the results. d) Our current roster doesn't really look that much different than last year, aside from considerably more depth.

So will Travis stick to this scheme that he's NEVER been successful with? Using essentially the same players? Or will he design a scheme BASED on the players? I don't need to see any more than a handful of games to know where Travis stands. If we stick to this scheme we may have some success. But that doesn't mean we've maximized the POTENTIAL success of this team.

I need 5 games to know. Thats it. I need to see the lineups and rotations, and just get a sense for whether we attack the rim or not. And this is ALL about Offense. Defense doesn't matter*. If we are not efficient offensively (points per possession as an example), we're gonna be mediocre at best. (* if you are winning games with a great defense to make up for an inefficient offense, then you are doomed).

this is all about whether the coach has enough awareness to assess how things are working and make the necessary adjustments or large scale changes. We (finally) saw Steele insert Hankins into the starting lineup 3 years ago, but it was just a little too late. it was the right decision (to his credit), but just not soon enough.

Last year, he benched (didnt start) Carter in the second to last game after back to back games where he played a total of 42 minutes and scored zero points on 0-4 shooting and had 9 rebounds. And in the game where he was benched he scored zero points in nine minutes with 1 rebound. THEN HE STARTS HIM AGAIN and he plays 35 minutes and goes 3-11 with 9 points and 5 rebounds. Season OVER. Like WHAT THE HELL? Carter made 8 threes last year and 18.2% from distance. He went 10 games in a row down the stretch where he didnt make a 3 (0-13). Our record was 5-5 down the stretch and Carter was playing 23 minutes a game. This is what I'm talking about. He may have loved the "little things" that Carter did, but we were 4 on5 on offense, and essentially a .500 team with Carter out there. We all saw it. Why didnt the guy in charge?

If he cant make adjustments, then Steele is over his head as a HC. he seems like a genuinely good dude and great recruiter. But only 80 minutes matter each week.
As for SteeleÂ’s first two years, the roster was shallow of offensive talent (partly his fault for the transfers he ultimately chose to bring in, but alas his hands were pretty tied from Mack having completely whiffed on an entire recruiting class). ItÂ’s hard to implement the scheme you talked about when you donÂ’t even have the shooters to keep the defense honest (two years of Quentin Goodin and Naji Marshall on the perimeter). Could Steele have done something different with those teams? Yes, IÂ’m not totally absolving him. Watching some of the long shots Quentin and Naji would hoist up made my blood boil, as IÂ’m sure it with many others.
Now as for last years team, I have some stats for you:
11 games: 76.7 ppg | 46% FG | 35% 3FG
9 games: 69.7 ppg | 43% FG% | 29% 3FG
Can you guess which stats belong to the Xavier team before there was a month long period where they only played one game, and which stats belong to the Xavier team that played after that middle of the season interruption?
Btw I didnÂ’t even include that 101 point game vs Oakland in the first line of statistics. You say Steele does scheme well with the personnel he has, I say letÂ’s see what this yearÂ’s team does without brutally long covid pauses that interrupt the entire flow of the team.

I suppose Xavier could go 5-0 to start the season, which would include a win over OSU, but if theyÂ’re not getting to the foul line as much as youÂ’d like, you would determine Steele isnÂ’t evolving as a coach? IÂ’m personally interested to see, you know, how the season ends.. which is where SteeleÂ’s teams have not played well the last couple seasons.

Your last couple paragraphs are absolutely true and very well written. Agree 100%. This year is definitely SteeleÂ’s make or break. He cannot make the same mistakes with lineups that have cost us games the last couple years. Only thing I would say to you is, donÂ’t worry if the style of offense isnÂ’t what you think it should be. I think this team has shown it can shoot well, and will have an improvement in that facet this year (better than any team SteeleÂ’s coached). We will see

[whopper]

I don't know why but each of the past 2 seasons X (and Steele) had 2 starters (Q and Carter) who were serviceable for 10 games and literally seemed to forget how to play the last 10. I heard about shoulder with Q and ankle(with Carter) but no confirmation. Tandy started the last few games for Q in 19-20 and Wilcher only 1 game in 2021. Last year with Nate and Stanley out there maybe was not a replacement(although I don't see how Griffin or even Ramsey could have been worse). I was befuddled both years as it was clear we were not getting starter's production from starters. This year with so many players we may have an opposite problem. Good luck X. I still say Gillespie MSG flop cost us 20 w and NCAA in 19 and Baldwin dagger cost us 20 and NCAA in 20(no tournament) . Last year not even close (despite the last 4 in dream until the end.) Let's pray

[MADXSTER]

Well thanks for all the negativity guys.

Disclaimer: DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE A NEGATIVE NANCY

Here's my take

Steele's first two years were with the dumbest players I've ever seen wearing the X on their jersey. Veteran players not knowing who to guard on a basic pick and roll leading to an uncontested layup or dunk multiple times. Players playing hero ball instead of passing to the open, under the basket or trailing player. It was awful to watch but Steele didn't have players on the bench to sub.

Last year, Covid year... throw it out. And NO, everyone didn't have to deal with Covid the same as Xavier. PERIOD. X was one of the worst hit in the ENTIRE NCAA. And if you didn't know, when the team had to isolate, they were in a hotel room. They couldn't go out jogging, put up shots on their own, dribble a ball in their room, etc. So yes they are going to look tired and shoot poorly as the season went along. DUH!! How about focusing on the first 8 games before any of the Covid pauses occurred. They played pretty damn good IMO. And some of the teams they barely beat ended up being pretty good.

My only beef with Steele is that he stuck with Carter way way too long.

Xavier's biggest weakness the past three seasons has been defense. Last year the problem laid with the bigs down low. Free was awful. He either didn't want to foul out or get himself taken out of the game due to fouling. Or he just couldn't defend big centers. This year Nunge, 6'11" 250lbs won't be so easy to move around or take advantage of. Miles should be able to run with the St John's guys.

Having depth means that Xavier has many tools in the tool belt to combat what the other team throws out at them.

Now let's look at the players...Get old and stay old, isn't that the saying.

Paul Scruggs: 5th year senior, Big East Second team. 2nd best defender on the team IMO. Took over games early in the season and put the team on his back many times. 1st year of playing without Naji Marshall and showed that he could be the man. Scored from all three positions(deep, midrange and drives).

Nate Johnson: 5th year senior, Best defender on the team IMO. Obviously showed that he could shoot from deep and was one of the best in the nation. Can also drive and pull up as well.

** So that is the two best defenders on the team coming back. And now they've had a year to play with each other as well.

Zach Freemantle: 2nd team Big East and Most Improved Player in the Big East. Lead Xavier in scoring last year AND was 5th in the BE at 16.1 ppg as a sophomore. With another year in the weight room and two years under his belt, one would think that his defense should improve. No reason it shouldn't.

** Between Zach and Paul, I just don't see how someone can say that they have not seen any players improve under Steele. Mind blowing.

Colby Jones: Big East All Freshman team. Can play the 1 thru 4 positions. Already a solid defender and with a year of high D1 experience as well as a year in the weight room he will definitely improve. High IQ player. Can score from all three positions. Biggest jump in college is typically from Freshman to Sophomore year. The expectation for improvement is not out of the question.

Dwon Odom: His Asst to T/O was 3.11 which was the best in the BE. For a freshman he was a very good defender. I expect this to improve from last year. Also expect his 3pt shot to improve but not drastically. Can drive and finish. Is not afraid to take the big shot at the end of games.

** Between Johnson, Scruggs, Jones and Odom, this team will be a really really good defensive team.

Nunge: Transferred from Iowa. 6' 11" 250lbs Played behind Luke Garza the National Player of the Year. As a freshman he played in all 33 games and started in 14 games while becoming the 5th leading scorer and 2nd on the team in shots. The next year he elected to sit out and red shirt. The following year he was granted a medical redshirt. Last year he averaged 7.1 points and 5.3 rebounds while playing behind Garza. Hi IQ player and can step out and shoot the 3 a bit.(shot 43% from 3 in HS) Last year was a covid year so he still has three years to go if he wishes to keep playing.

This is not a guy coming up from a lower level. He is coming from a Big Ten team that was very good. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

If Xavier wanted him to go full go he could. X is being very conservative and making sure that he is 100%+ before bringing him back. No need to rush things since X has depth in this department.

** The big guys who bullied Freemantle down low will not be able to do the same against Nunge.

Jerome Hunter: 6' 7" 215lbs Top 50 recruit coming out of high school. Medical redshirt his Freshman year. A good defensive player, athletic, long and has very good ball skills. His strength coming out of HS was his 3pt shooting. Last season he hit 25 3 pointers, the 3rd most on IU. To me, this is going to be his impact year. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

Adam Kunkel and Ben Stanley: Kunkel played great at Bellmont. He played great last year until the covid pauses. And like everyone the covid pauses took a toll. What makes both Kunkel and Stanley so awesome is that they know their roles, stay positive, cheer on their teammates, play hard and give 100%, and care about winning first and foremost. Stanley will be an under valued asset IMO.

** With all the guys listed above, That's a lot of experience.

Dionte Miles: With another year under his belt, he's ready to contribute. Teams that give Xavier a hard way to go are teams like St John's who have tall lanky guys who run the floor and rim protect. Well the tool in Xavier's toolbelt is Dionte Miles because he will be able to run with these guys and rim protect at the other end of the court. Everyone is rooting for Dionte to excel including me. It would not surprise me if he starts for Xavier at the beginning of the season.

Ky Ky Tandy: Let's not forget that he was on the BE All Freshman team. He can play and he can score. And he's coming off the bench which makes for a deep bench.

[xukeith]

Well thanks for all the negativity guys.

Disclaimer: DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE A NEGATIVE NANCY

Here's my take

Steele's first two years were with the dumbest players I've ever seen wearing the X on their jersey. Veteran players not knowing who to guard on a basic pick and roll leading to an uncontested layup or dunk multiple times. Players playing hero ball instead of passing to the open, under the basket or trailing player. It was awful to watch but Steele didn't have players on the bench to sub.

Last year, Covid year... throw it out. And NO, everyone didn't have to deal with Covid the same as Xavier. PERIOD. X was one of the worst hit in the ENTIRE NCAA. And if you didn't know, when the team had to isolate, they were in a hotel room. They couldn't go out jogging, put up shots on their own, dribble a ball in their room, etc. So yes they are going to look tired and shoot poorly as the season went along. DUH!! How about focusing on the first 8 games before any of the Covid pauses occurred. They played pretty damn good IMO. And some of the teams they barely beat ended up being pretty good.
Gr the problem laid with the bigs down low. Free was awful. He either didn't want to foul out or get himself taken out of the game due to fouling. Or he just couldn't defend big centers. This year Nunge, 6'11" 250lbs won't be so easy to move around or take advantage of. Miles should be able to run with the St John's guys.

Having depth means that Xavier has many tools in the tool belt to combat what the other team throws out at them.

Now let's look at the players...Get old and stay old, isn't that the saying.

Paul Scruggs: 5th year senior, Big East Second team. 2nd best defender on the team IMO. Took over games early in the season and put the team on his back many times. 1st year of playing without Naji Marshall and showed that he could be the man. Scored from all three positions(deep, midrange and drives).

Nate Johnson: 5th year senior, Best defender on the team IMO. Obviously showed that he could shoot from deep and was one of the best in the nation. Can also drive and pull up as well.

** So that is the two best defenders on the team coming back. And now they've had a year to play with each other as well.

Zach Freemantle: 2nd team Big East and Most Improved Player in the Big East. Lead Xavier in scoring last year AND was 5th in the BE at 16.1 ppg as a sophomore. With another year in the weight room and two years under his belt, one would think that his defense should improve. No reason it shouldn't.

** Between Zach and Paul, I just don't see how someone can say that they have not seen any players improve under Steele. Mind blowing.

Colby Jones: Big East All Freshman team. Can play the 1 thru 4 positions. Already a solid defender and with a year of high D1 experience as well as a year in the weight room he will definitely improve. High IQ player. Can score from all three positions. Biggest jump in college is typically from Freshman to Sophomore year. The expectation for improvement is not out of the question.

Dwon Odom: His Asst to T/O was 3.11 which was the best in the BE. For a freshman he was a very good defender. I expect this to improve from last year. Also expect his 3pt shot to improve but not drastically. Can drive and finish. Is not afraid to take the big shot at the end of games.

** Between Johnson, Scruggs, Jones and Odom, this team will be a really really good defensive team.

Nunge: Transferred from Iowa. 6' 11" 250lbs Played behind Luke Garza the National Player of the Year. As a freshman he played in all 33 games and started in 14 games while becoming the 5th leading scorer and 2nd on the team in shots. The next year he elected to sit out and red shirt. The following year he was granted a medical redshirt. Last year he averaged 7.1 points and 5.3 rebounds while playing behind Garza. Hi IQ player and can step out and shoot the 3 a bit.(shot 43% from 3 in HS) Last year was a covid year so he still has three years to go if he wishes to keep playing.

This is not a guy coming up from a lower level. He is coming from a Big Ten team that was very good. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

If Xavier wanted him to go full go he could. X is being very conservative and making sure that he is 100%+ before bringing him back. No need to rush things since X has depth in this department.

** The big guys who bullied Freemantle down low will not be able to do the same against Nunge.

Jerome Hunter: 6' 7" 215lbs Top 50 recruit coming out of high school. Medical redshirt his Freshman year. A good defensive player, athletic, long and has very good ball skills. His strength coming out of HS was his 3pt shooting. Last season he hit 25 3 pointers, the 3rd most on IU. To me, this is going to be his impact year. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

Adam Kunkel and Ben Stanley: Kunkel played great at Bellmont. He played great last year until the covid pauses. And like everyone the covid pauses took a toll. What makes both Kunkel and Stanley so awesome is that they know their roles, stay positive, cheer on their teammates, play hard and give 100%, and care about winning first and foremost. Stanley will be an under valued asset IMO.

** With all the guys listed above, That's a lot of experience.

Dionte Miles: With another year under his belt, he's ready to contribute. Teams that give Xavier a hard way to go are teams like St John's who have tall lanky guys who run the floor and rim protect. Well the tool in Xavier's toolbelt is Dionte Miles because he will be able to run with these guys and rim protect at the other end of the court. Everyone is rooting for Dionte to excel including me. It would not surprise me if he starts for Xavier at the beginning of the season.

Ky Ky Tandy: Let's not forget that he was on the BE All Freshman team. He can play and he can score. And he's coming off the bench which makes for a deep bench.

Good stuff. I don't think Hunter played much defense at IU.
Miles will be a pleasant surprise. He will go from bench player with no minutes to either starting until Nunge is 100% or first big off the bench. His biggest skills are his size and quickness in transition.

Only thing I disagree with is evaluating X during that 8-0 start. A lot of those teams were low level and it took a miracle or some OT for X to get a win.

I really like our best 5 players.

[whopper]

nice analysis and I am sure other teams can come up with similar player profiles. We shall see when the season starts but I think it will be much more enjoyable to watch and that is part of the equation. My only 2 sleepless nights over the past 10 years were with Wisonsin and FSU losses as I had dreams of grandeur with 2 daughters at X excited about having players in their classes occasionally but I am over that now. Would love to see an enjoyable team that makes the tournament and then we will see. We should not have foul trouble this year(maybe team but not individual) and I recall both Scruggs and Freemantle being hobbled by fouls last 2 years with not many answers.

[xu82]

I love the spirit and attitude! Now I’m excited for the season to start!

[MADXSTER]

nice analysis and I am sure other teams can come up with similar player profiles. We shall see when the season starts but I think it will be much more enjoyable to watch and that is part of the equation. My only 2 sleepless nights over the past 10 years were with Wisonsin and FSU losses as I had dreams of grandeur with 2 daughters at X excited about having players in their classes occasionally but I am over that now. Would love to see an enjoyable team that makes the tournament and then we will see. We should not have foul trouble this year(maybe team but not individual) and I recall both Scruggs and Freemantle being hobbled by fouls last 2 years with not many answers.

This is a very good point. Xavier should be able to plug and play this year as opposed to the previous seasons.

[xukeith]

i never read any analysis last year on why Xavier got hit so hard by the Covid restrictions. I vaguely remember Steele explaining that when he heard the Covid rules , how screwed X would be. What was the deal? Was it Norwood,? Ohio? What made Xavier so sensitive to lockdown Covid rules?
I’ve always wanted to know why X got crushed.

[XU_Lou]

Last year, Covid year... throw it out. And NO, everyone didn't have to deal with Covid the same as Xavier. PERIOD. X was one of the worst hit in the ENTIRE NCAA. And if you didn't know, when the team had to isolate, they were in a hotel room. They couldn't go out jogging, put up shots on their own, dribble a ball in their room, etc. So yes they are going to look tired and shoot poorly as the season went along. DUH!! How about focusing on the first 8 games before any of the Covid pauses occurred. They played pretty damn good IMO. And some of the teams they barely beat ended up being pretty good.


BINGO! Exactly - why is this so hard to understand for the negative Nancy's on this board....


i never read any analysis last year on why Xavier got hit so hard by the Covid restrictions. I vaguely remember Steele explaining that when he heard the Covid rules , how screwed X would be. What was the deal? Was it Norwood,? Ohio? What made Xavier so sensitive to lockdown Covid rules?
I’ve always wanted to know why X got crushed.

From my understanding it's because of the number of PCR cycles in the tests used in the state of Ohio. The higher the number of PCR cycles, the greater the chance of finding a "positive" case. Ohio used a higher cycle threshold than most other states for a longer period of time - that's my understanding of what happened LY. Had XU not played an extremely aggressive schedule the first couple of weeks of the season we would have been in one of the lowest tier of games played in the NCAA.

Mark it down, if we stay healthy, we will have one helluva team TY....

[Xville]

I’m excited for the year, always excited about the team and have some hope that this team will be back in the tourney where they belong. However, to make excuses for the last three years is just that, excuses. Yeah last year was covid, and had what happened to the team been an aberration from years prior with Steele at the helm, than yeah I’d chalk it up to covid. However, it was a lot of the same exact issues..and sure as hell can’t blame covid for Steeles horrible roster and lineup management last year or butler.

Anyways, hoping that Steele has grown and that the end of season collapses are a thing of the past. Talent is there to make the tourney this year and that’s all I want to see. Get back to what Xavier has done for thirty years.

[XUGRAD80]

I won’t agree that the Talent is there until we see that Talent perform consistently throughout a season. I will only say that the Talent, based on what we have seen AT TIMES, has the POTENTIAL to be very good. BUT, there are to many cases in the past where the Talent has disappeared for a half, a game, or a couple of games at a time. Was that coaching? Was that the scheme? Inexperience? Covid? Attitude? Ineptitude? What? I don’t know that it wasn’t a combination of all of those things. But to my mind the Talent AND the Coaching has a lot to prove this year. There is improvement needed in almost every area of the program if they are going to just not make the tournament, but also make a run through it. I understand that making the tourney is the first step, but when did we get to the point where just MAKING the tourney is the goal?

[xukeith]

BINGO! Exactly - why is this so hard to understand for the negative Nancy's on this board....



From my understanding it's because of the number of PCR cycles in the tests used in the state of Ohio. The higher the number of PCR cycles, the greater the chance of finding a "positive" case. Ohio used a higher cycle threshold than most other states for a longer period of time - that's my understanding of what happened LY. Had XU not played an extremely aggressive schedule the first couple of weeks of the season we would have been in one of the lowest tier of games played in the NCAA.

Mark it down, if we stay healthy, we will have one helluva team TY....

So wouldn't Ohio State, UC and other Ohio universities have a lot of Covid cancellations and athletes in quarantine?

[Lloyd Braun]

Kenpom 26 to start

http://kenpom.com/ (http://kenpom.com)

[xukeith]

Kenpom 26 to start

http://kenpom.com/ (http://kenpom.com)

Predicting a BE record of 13-7 for X.

[xukeith]

Bart has X 19

https://barttorvik.com/

[XU_Lou]

So wouldn't Ohio State, UC and other Ohio universities have a lot of Covid cancellations and athletes in quarantine?

Just eye-balling, but here are the total games played for a few Ohio teams last year (this includes conf and ncaa tourney games):

OSU - 31
Cleve State - 27
Ohio - 24
Toledo - 30
X - 21
UC - 23
UD - 24
Kent - 22
Akron - 21
Miami - 22

* 89 teams played 25 or more games LY

* XU ranked 217th in games played.

* of the 346 teams that played at least 1 game LY, 216 played more games than XU

* remember, we knocked off 5 games in one week, and 7 in first 2 weeks. We jumped far ahead of everyone else in that time period. Had we not aggressively scheduled we easily could've seen a season with only 18 or 19 games played. MADXTERs comment above is spot on.

* have no data on number of individual interruptions of schedule, or total days impacted by covid positive tests per team.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/games-played

[Xville]

Predicting a BE record of 13-7 for X.

Sounds good to me. Non-conference I think at worst will be 8-3…so 21 wins before be tourney..that should get us back to the tournament. I’ll take it!

[xukeith]

Just eye-balling, but here are the total games played for a few Ohio teams last year (this includes conf and ncaa tourney games):

OSU - 31
Cleve State - 27
Ohio - 24
Toledo - 30
X - 21
UC - 23
UD - 24
Kent - 22
Akron - 21
Miami - 22

* 89 teams played 25 or more games LY

* XU ranked 217th in games played.

* of the 346 teams that played at least 1 game LY, 216 played more games than XU

* remember, we knocked off 5 games in one week, and 7 in first 2 weeks. We jumped far ahead of everyone else in that time period. Had we not aggressively scheduled we easily could've seen a season with only 18 or 19 games played. MADXTERs comment above is spot on.

* have no data on number of individual interruptions of schedule, or total days impacted by covid positive tests per team.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/games-played

I agree with you. Didn't know if other Ohio schools had issues. They did. Thanks

[bleedXblue]

Well thanks for all the negativity guys.

Disclaimer: DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE A NEGATIVE NANCY

Here's my take

Steele's first two years were with the dumbest players I've ever seen wearing the X on their jersey. Veteran players not knowing who to guard on a basic pick and roll leading to an uncontested layup or dunk multiple times. Players playing hero ball instead of passing to the open, under the basket or trailing player. It was awful to watch but Steele didn't have players on the bench to sub.

Last year, Covid year... throw it out. And NO, everyone didn't have to deal with Covid the same as Xavier. PERIOD. X was one of the worst hit in the ENTIRE NCAA. And if you didn't know, when the team had to isolate, they were in a hotel room. They couldn't go out jogging, put up shots on their own, dribble a ball in their room, etc. So yes they are going to look tired and shoot poorly as the season went along. DUH!! How about focusing on the first 8 games before any of the Covid pauses occurred. They played pretty damn good IMO. And some of the teams they barely beat ended up being pretty good.

My only beef with Steele is that he stuck with Carter way way too long.

Xavier's biggest weakness the past three seasons has been defense. Last year the problem laid with the bigs down low. Free was awful. He either didn't want to foul out or get himself taken out of the game due to fouling. Or he just couldn't defend big centers. This year Nunge, 6'11" 250lbs won't be so easy to move around or take advantage of. Miles should be able to run with the St John's guys.

Having depth means that Xavier has many tools in the tool belt to combat what the other team throws out at them.

Now let's look at the players...Get old and stay old, isn't that the saying.

Paul Scruggs: 5th year senior, Big East Second team. 2nd best defender on the team IMO. Took over games early in the season and put the team on his back many times. 1st year of playing without Naji Marshall and showed that he could be the man. Scored from all three positions(deep, midrange and drives).

Nate Johnson: 5th year senior, Best defender on the team IMO. Obviously showed that he could shoot from deep and was one of the best in the nation. Can also drive and pull up as well.

** So that is the two best defenders on the team coming back. And now they've had a year to play with each other as well.

Zach Freemantle: 2nd team Big East and Most Improved Player in the Big East. Lead Xavier in scoring last year AND was 5th in the BE at 16.1 ppg as a sophomore. With another year in the weight room and two years under his belt, one would think that his defense should improve. No reason it shouldn't.

** Between Zach and Paul, I just don't see how someone can say that they have not seen any players improve under Steele. Mind blowing.

Colby Jones: Big East All Freshman team. Can play the 1 thru 4 positions. Already a solid defender and with a year of high D1 experience as well as a year in the weight room he will definitely improve. High IQ player. Can score from all three positions. Biggest jump in college is typically from Freshman to Sophomore year. The expectation for improvement is not out of the question.

Dwon Odom: His Asst to T/O was 3.11 which was the best in the BE. For a freshman he was a very good defender. I expect this to improve from last year. Also expect his 3pt shot to improve but not drastically. Can drive and finish. Is not afraid to take the big shot at the end of games.

** Between Johnson, Scruggs, Jones and Odom, this team will be a really really good defensive team.

Nunge: Transferred from Iowa. 6' 11" 250lbs Played behind Luke Garza the National Player of the Year. As a freshman he played in all 33 games and started in 14 games while becoming the 5th leading scorer and 2nd on the team in shots. The next year he elected to sit out and red shirt. The following year he was granted a medical redshirt. Last year he averaged 7.1 points and 5.3 rebounds while playing behind Garza. Hi IQ player and can step out and shoot the 3 a bit.(shot 43% from 3 in HS) Last year was a covid year so he still has three years to go if he wishes to keep playing.

This is not a guy coming up from a lower level. He is coming from a Big Ten team that was very good. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

If Xavier wanted him to go full go he could. X is being very conservative and making sure that he is 100%+ before bringing him back. No need to rush things since X has depth in this department.

** The big guys who bullied Freemantle down low will not be able to do the same against Nunge.

Jerome Hunter: 6' 7" 215lbs Top 50 recruit coming out of high school. Medical redshirt his Freshman year. A good defensive player, athletic, long and has very good ball skills. His strength coming out of HS was his 3pt shooting. Last season he hit 25 3 pointers, the 3rd most on IU. To me, this is going to be his impact year. Don't be surprised if he starts for Xavier.

Adam Kunkel and Ben Stanley: Kunkel played great at Bellmont. He played great last year until the covid pauses. And like everyone the covid pauses took a toll. What makes both Kunkel and Stanley so awesome is that they know their roles, stay positive, cheer on their teammates, play hard and give 100%, and care about winning first and foremost. Stanley will be an under valued asset IMO.

** With all the guys listed above, That's a lot of experience.

Dionte Miles: With another year under his belt, he's ready to contribute. Teams that give Xavier a hard way to go are teams like St John's who have tall lanky guys who run the floor and rim protect. Well the tool in Xavier's toolbelt is Dionte Miles because he will be able to run with these guys and rim protect at the other end of the court. Everyone is rooting for Dionte to excel including me. It would not surprise me if he starts for Xavier at the beginning of the season.

Ky Ky Tandy: Let's not forget that he was on the BE All Freshman team. He can play and he can score. And he's coming off the bench which makes for a deep bench.

Pretty good stuff

One caveat. Hunter is NOT known for his defense and rebounding

[drudy23]

Steele had more than just a Jason Carter issue the past few years. No excuses this year.

Tournament or bust.

[RetireFiftyTu]

Looking at Steele's first 3 years on an individual basis or in a vacuum it's easy or understandable to excuse the poor performance. But when all 3 of those years come in succession it's hard to overlook.

2018-2019: Lost a ton - top 3 and 5 of top 9 scorers. Returned only 5 scholarship players. Had to take a couple transfers that were probably a reach to fill out roster. Only had 5.5 guys that were Big East caliber players.

2019-2020: Had a bunch of talented pieces, good mix of veterans and young guys, but the talent was very redundant and the pieces just did not fit together. Got hit with a Scruggs injury at a really unfortunate time.

2020-2021: Things started out very strong but the Covid pauses impacted Xavier more than most and they were never the same after one of the long pauses. Doesn't excuse what happened down the stretch but it has to be acknowledged. Got hit with a Johnson injury at a really unfortunate time.

Considering this has happened 3 years in a row - and that it's Steele's first 3 seasons of his head coaching career - it's hard to overlook. He has had the time to completely mold the roster to his liking. There are no excuses this year. He has to deliver or it will be tough not to pin it all on him.

[nuts4xu]

Steele had more than just a Jason Carter issue the past few years. No excuses this year.

Tournament or bust.

It's put up or shut up time for Travis Steele on a lot of fronts. Zero excuses. They should put this on a T-Shirt.

[drudy23]

It's put up or shut up time for Travis Steele on a lot of fronts. Zero excuses. They should put this on a T-Shirt.

Cue the Marvin Lewis t-shirt responses...

"Keep Choppin' Wood"

[MHettel]

I took the Covid circumstances into account when I considered last year's performance and results. I also took the performance nd results of the prior 2 years into account as well.

I cut last years team a considerable amount of slack due to Covid. They were still generally bad with a questionable gameplan and roster management. I'm not blaming the talent (players) for the decisions made by the coach.

You can use Covid to talk about why they may have missed some games. But when on the court, you cant blame Covid for running an offense that is designed to create 3's for bad shooters.

[GoMuskies]

What's this place going to do when Kunkel starts game 1 because of his practice points lol?

Kunkel is the current wearer of the gold jersey.

[xukeith]

AP poll out X 32 receiving votes.


Ohio State 17th
Oklahoma St 31st
VU 3rd
UConn 22nd

[D-West & PO-Z]

There is plenty of talent on this team to make the tournament, beyond that is whatever. If they don't, that's a severe indictment on the coaching staff and I believe many feel that same way.

Bingo. If Xavier does not make a tourney this year then Steele has to go. There can't be any excuses. There is talent even to survive an injury or to on this team. Make the tourney and get that monkey off his back and see what happens from there.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Possibly correct BUT……if and when they do disappoint who will get the blame? Probably Steele, and I’m sure he will earn some of it. However, some of it should also fall on the players. Except that if the expectations, and analysis of the teams real abilities, were based more fact and less emotion, the angst would probably be less. What I keep reading (and have year after year in the preseason) in the posts here is about how the team is so deep and the players so skilled. But I guess you can just say that after reading it year after year, and after the actual results year after year, I’m just skeptical.

If Steele fails this year, and I don't think he will, how many different combinations of players will it take before some people lay all the blame on him? I mean no only is he charged with putting the players in positions to succeed, but he is also the one picking the players! If it is their fault, it is Steele's fault.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I won’t agree that the Talent is there until we see that Talent perform consistently throughout a season. I will only say that the Talent, based on what we have seen AT TIMES, has the POTENTIAL to be very good. BUT, there are to many cases in the past where the Talent has disappeared for a half, a game, or a couple of games at a time. Was that coaching? Was that the scheme? Inexperience? Covid? Attitude? Ineptitude? What? I don’t know that it wasn’t a combination of all of those things. But to my mind the Talent AND the Coaching has a lot to prove this year. There is improvement needed in almost every area of the program if they are going to just not make the tournament, but also make a run through it. I understand that making the tourney is the first step, but when did we get to the point where just MAKING the tourney is the goal?

When we missed 3 straight to start Steele's HC career.

[MADXSTER]

I agree that Steele needs to make the tournament this year not because of the last three years but because he has the horses to do it. Think Xavier will also make some noise in the tournament as well.

[Masterofreality]

AP poll out X 32 receiving votes.


Ohio State 17th
Oklahoma St 31st
VU 3rd
UConn 22nd

I guess Steele needs to “Sneak up on people”. No one respects him nationally yet.

[xudash]

I agree that Steele needs to make the tournament this year not because of the last three years but because he has the horses to do it. Think Xavier will also make some noise in the tournament as well.

I think that's it: he has the horses to do it. If he can't get there with this line-up, then something is seriously wrong.

[xudash]

And I believe Xavier will make the NCAAT and make a run.

[Masterofreality]

And I believe Xavier will make the NCAAT and make a run.

From your lips to God’s ears. #Praying

[RetireFiftyTu]

I took the Covid circumstances into account when I considered last year's performance and results. I also took the performance nd results of the prior 2 years into account as well.

I cut last years team a considerable amount of slack due to Covid. They were still generally bad with a questionable gameplan and roster management. I'm not blaming the talent (players) for the decisions made by the coach.

You can use Covid to talk about why they may have missed some games. But when on the court, you cant blame Covid for running an offense that is designed to create 3's for bad shooters.

3PA Leaders Last Season (Career 3P% coming into last year)
Johnson: 93 (38.8%)
Scruggs: 83 (36.3%)
Freemantle: 78 (35.3%)
Kunkel: 68 (36.9%)
Tandy: 59 (35.5%)
Carter: 44 (29.7%)
Wilcher: 29 (N/A, reputation as a good shooter)
Jones: 27 (N/A, reputation as a guy who doesn't shoot outside much)
Odom: 13 (N/A, reputation as a poor shooter)

3PA/Minutes Played (essentially the above on a rate basis)
Kunkel: 0.23
Tandy: 0.23
Johnson: 0.18
Wilcher: 0.19
Scruggs: 0.12
Freemantle: 0.12
Carter: 0.08
Jones: 0.06
Odom: 0.03

What percentage of total FGAs came from 3
Johnson: 66.4%
Wilcher: 64.4%
Kunkel: 63.0%
Tandy: 57.3%
Carter: 38.6%
Scruggs: 36.6%
Jones: 32.1%
Freemantle: 29.0%
Odom: 12.0%

To me it looks like the best shooters got the most looks from 3 (although Carter took too many). I have other gripes with the offense but the wrong guys taking the 3 point shots by and large isn't the biggest concern imo.

[drudy23]

If Steele fails this year, and I don't think he will, how many different combinations of players will it take before some people lay all the blame on him? I mean no only is he charged with putting the players in positions to succeed, but he is also the one picking the players! If it is their fault, it is Steele's fault.

I have no issue tinkering with the lineup early on and with the Buy Games - that's what they are for.

But at some point, you have to settle in on your best 8-9 guys. As someone said, this team is deep enough to even weather some injuries. Coaching decisions about roster construction, playing time, and lineups in crucial moments are 100% dictated by the coaching staff. You have to put your team in the best situation to win, and honestly, that has been very questionable the last 3 years.

[Masterofreality]

I have no issue tinkering with the lineup early on and with the Buy Games - that's what they are for.

But at some point, you have to settle in on your best 8-9 guys. As someone said, this team is deep enough to even weather some injuries. Coaching decisions about roster construction, playing time, and lineups in crucial moments are 100% dictated by the coaching staff. You have to put your team in the best situation to win, and honestly, that has been very questionable the last 3 years.

How many times, last year especially, did Xavier start out a game playing very effectively, then a formulaic substitution happens and the new guys installed immediately kill that early momentum?
Answer- waaaaaay too many times.

[MHettel]

3PA Leaders Last Season (Career 3P% coming into last year)
Johnson: 93 (38.8%)
Scruggs: 83 (36.3%)
Freemantle: 78 (35.3%)
Kunkel: 68 (36.9%)
Tandy: 59 (35.5%)
Carter: 44 (29.7%)
Wilcher: 29 (N/A, reputation as a good shooter)
Jones: 27 (N/A, reputation as a guy who doesn't shoot outside much)
Odom: 13 (N/A, reputation as a poor shooter)

3PA/Minutes Played (essentially the above on a rate basis)
Kunkel: 0.23
Tandy: 0.23
Johnson: 0.18
Wilcher: 0.19
Scruggs: 0.12
Freemantle: 0.12
Carter: 0.08
Jones: 0.06
Odom: 0.03

What percentage of total FGAs came from 3
Johnson: 66.4%
Wilcher: 64.4%
Kunkel: 63.0%
Tandy: 57.3%
Carter: 38.6%
Scruggs: 36.6%
Jones: 32.1%
Freemantle: 29.0%
Odom: 12.0%

To me it looks like the best shooters got the most looks from 3 (although Carter took too many). I have other gripes with the offense but the wrong guys taking the 3 point shots by and large isn't the biggest concern imo.

I dont know if you saw the analysis I provided earlier, but there are a few basic realities that simply "exist" and cannot be explained away no matter the analysis of the details.

Simply put, we took more 3's per minute in the last 3 years that we did in any of the previous 29 years. Slice that up anyway you want. It's just a fact.

AND

Our shooting % from 3 over the last 3 years is ALSO at the bottom over the 32 year period (too lazy to check what I posted, but all three years were ranked mid 20 or higher and I think 2 were in the 30s). Again. Just a fact.

Our % of shots taken from 3 was higher than our historical rate.

Our % of points scored from 3 was actually among our highest rate ever. Think about that. We were bad at shooting 3's and still scored our highest % of points from 3. Do you know how many misses that took?

So, to be clear, I appreciate the stat breakdown. But at the end of the day, when you put it all back together, we were a poor shooting team from 3 that took alot of 3s.

Also, lets dig a little deeper into the "why" we got these results. I figure there are 2 options.

1) We weren't necessarily trying to shoot 3's, but had to settle for contested attempts that caused our actual shooting % to be lower than it should have been based on the reputation of these guys as shooters.

2) These attempts came out of a designed offense, and they weren't necessarily contented, but they didn't fall. In as sense, good shooters having an "off day", expect it lasted for 4 months.

And the more important point I was trying to make in my analysis is that it seems our surge in 3 pt attempts may be related to our noticeable reduction in Free Throw Attempts. I submit that we left more points on the line last year (last 3 years) than we could have scored if we shot 3's at remarkably high rate. Freemantle took 78 3's in what, 21 games? I like the the 35.3% he shoots, but I rather see him brining the lunchpail and work inside. An emphasis on taking 3's will result in less attempts at the rim. Thats whats been killing us....

[SM#24]

I guess Steele needs to “Sneak up on people”. No one respects him nationally yet.

Or regionally or locally.

While I like that Scruggs and Johnson came back, deep or not, Odom and Jones need to lead this team in minutes played with at least 30 mpg.

[MHettel]

Or regionally or locally.

While I like that Scruggs and Johnson came back, deep or not, Odom and Jones need to lead this team in minutes played with at least 30 mpg.

I dont want to be the first to say it, but Odom needs considerable work on his game to be a guy that we can build around and hope leads out team in minutes played. His lack of outside shot will make it very difficult for him to get into the lane and finish. Lets say you were the opposing coach and had access to his game film. Would you respect his shot and play him tight on the perimeter? I wouldnt. I dare him to shoot. And I'd give myself as much of an advantage as I could when it comes to stopping the drive.

I like pretty much everything about him and dont see many weaknesses aside from shooting the 3. he kind of reminds me of Westbrook. Freak athlete for sure, but he can be defended due to his lack of deep shooting.

I think Jones can be an all time great XU player. Josh Hart.

[SM#24]

Odom is our best defender and at a key position. As long as he stays disciplined to NOT take what the defense gives him, he should be on the court.

[xukeith]

How many times, last year especially, did Xavier start out a game playing very effectively, then a formulaic substitution happens and the new guys installed immediately kill that early momentum?
Answer- waaaaaay too many times.

It is very common across the basketball world to see a significant drop off when going to the bench. Most teams are only 6-8 deep.

[xukeith]

Dee Davis was never known for his shooting either. He had good ball control and lots of assists. He did have a 3 point shot but it wasn't beautiful. (he shot the 3 ball not too bad 32-37% but he was surrounded by good shooters too)
Odom being the freak athlete can beat defenders in speed but he needs them closer so he can drive on opponents. In transition he is a beauty to watch. He will never be a 35+% shooter but he can be average and I am good with only him being an average 3 point shooter.

[RetireFiftyTu]

I dont know if you saw the analysis I provided earlier, but there are a few basic realities that simply "exist" and cannot be explained away no matter the analysis of the details.

Simply put, we took more 3's per minute in the last 3 years that we did in any of the previous 29 years. Slice that up anyway you want. It's just a fact.

AND

Our shooting % from 3 over the last 3 years is ALSO at the bottom over the 32 year period (too lazy to check what I posted, but all three years were ranked mid 20 or higher and I think 2 were in the 30s). Again. Just a fact.

Our % of shots taken from 3 was higher than our historical rate.

Our % of points scored from 3 was actually among our highest rate ever. Think about that. We were bad at shooting 3's and still scored our highest % of points from 3. Do you know how many misses that took?

So, to be clear, I appreciate the stat breakdown. But at the end of the day, when you put it all back together, we were a poor shooting team from 3 that took alot of 3s.

Also, lets dig a little deeper into the "why" we got these results. I figure there are 2 options.

1) We weren't necessarily trying to shoot 3's, but had to settle for contested attempts that caused our actual shooting % to be lower than it should have been based on the reputation of these guys as shooters.

2) These attempts came out of a designed offense, and they weren't necessarily contented, but they didn't fall. In as sense, good shooters having an "off day", expect it lasted for 4 months.

And the more important point I was trying to make in my analysis is that it seems our surge in 3 pt attempts may be related to our noticeable reduction in Free Throw Attempts. I submit that we left more points on the line last year (last 3 years) than we could have scored if we shot 3's at remarkably high rate. Freemantle took 78 3's in what, 21 games? I like the the 35.3% he shoots, but I rather see him brining the lunchpail and work inside. An emphasis on taking 3's will result in less attempts at the rim. Thats whats been killing us....

I think I disagree in the sense that 38.8% of FGA coming from 3 point range is a lot (148th in the country last year, slightly above national average). Although that is a bump from Steele’s first 2 years and most of Mack’s tenure. Miller’s teams took a lot of 3’s relative to the national average at the time though. I do agree with your larger point that the lack of free throws is a killer. You could always count on Mack’s teams being good at getting to the line. Each one of Steele’s teams have been bad at getting to the line. And FTRate has gotten worse each year. Do agree I’d like to see more FT attempts although not necessarily fewer 3 point attempts. Just more shots at the rim.

[Masterofreality]

It is very common across the basketball world to see a significant drop off when going to the bench. Most teams are only 6-8 deep.

It’s also very common across the basketball world to leave guys in when they’re hot and not remove based upon a prescripted sub sheet.
That has not happened often over the last three years.
Some lineup combos have been questionable at times

[xufan2020]

I dont know if you saw the analysis I provided earlier, but there are a few basic realities that simply "exist" and cannot be explained away no matter the analysis of the details.

Simply put, we took more 3's per minute in the last 3 years that we did in any of the previous 29 years. Slice that up anyway you want. It's just a fact.

AND

Our shooting % from 3 over the last 3 years is ALSO at the bottom over the 32 year period (too lazy to check what I posted, but all three years were ranked mid 20 or higher and I think 2 were in the 30s). Again. Just a fact.

Our % of shots taken from 3 was higher than our historical rate.

Our % of points scored from 3 was actually among our highest rate ever. Think about that. We were bad at shooting 3's and still scored our highest % of points from 3. Do you know how many misses that took?

So, to be clear, I appreciate the stat breakdown. But at the end of the day, when you put it all back together, we were a poor shooting team from 3 that took alot of 3s.

Also, lets dig a little deeper into the "why" we got these results. I figure there are 2 options.

1) We weren't necessarily trying to shoot 3's, but had to settle for contested attempts that caused our actual shooting % to be lower than it should have been based on the reputation of these guys as shooters.

2) These attempts came out of a designed offense, and they weren't necessarily contented, but they didn't fall. In as sense, good shooters having an "off day", expect it lasted for 4 months.

And the more important point I was trying to make in my analysis is that it seems our surge in 3 pt attempts may be related to our noticeable reduction in Free Throw Attempts. I submit that we left more points on the line last year (last 3 years) than we could have scored if we shot 3's at remarkably high rate. Freemantle took 78 3's in what, 21 games? I like the the 35.3% he shoots, but I rather see him brining the lunchpail and work inside. An emphasis on taking 3's will result in less attempts at the rim. Thats whats been killing us....
HereÂ’s a reality, the game isnÂ’t played anywhere near the same as it was 29 years ago.. much less 15 years ago. Your analysis of 29 years of Xavier basketball doesnÂ’t take that into account, which is a glaring point you seem to be omitting.

HereÂ’s one major fact to the consider: XavierÂ’s 3FG% coming out of the COVID pause where they played 1 game in a span of 30 days: 36.4%
XavierÂ’s 3FG% from that point forward to end the season: 27%

Now still, that doesnÂ’t absolve Steele for butchering the final 3 games of the season for the 2nd consecutive year (and that cannot happen again or else IÂ’d absolutely agree he should be gone).. but to act as if this team canÂ’t effectively shoot the 3, or that your mind will be made up on how heÂ’s progressed as a coach after the first 5 games, is just nonsensical.

Let the whole season play out, then judge.

[SM#24]

For three years we have been letting too many guys take too many threes at an inefficient rate and it has been killing the offense. I realize that basketball is trending towards more threes; the math is pretty simple as to why. But you need to make them. Just being on the court and open should not be a green light. There is a reason certain players were wide open and it wasn't because of good ball movement. The fact that this has been happening is solely on the coaching. They were all coached to take open threes. As far as I can tell, the only person that had a red light was Tyrique. The other team comes in with a game plan to expose our weaknesses; instead of countering it, we verify our weaknesses.

Simply, the team needs to take good shots, and we haven't been doing that. What's a good shot for player A may not be a good shot for player B.
Goodin, Naji, Carter, Freemantle took way to many threes and were allowed to.

Last year - Freemantle was 3rd in 3 attempts and shot 32% (3.7 attempts per game is way too many for him; he should cut that in half and get closer to the basket where he's more efficient (51%); plus his 3 point shot just does not look natural); Carter was 8/44 (and what point is he told not to shoot ?).

Two years ago - Naji was 44/154 (28.5%), next highest attempts was Scruggs with 118 who made the same amount, 44. Q was next at 27/95 (28.4%).

Three years - Naji was 48/173 (27.8%), next highest attempts was Q at 42/141 (29.8%), then Scruggs with 136 and he made more, 51.

That's a lot of wasted possessions when the wrong guy is shooting a three. It's also all on the coaching staff to correct.

[RetireFiftyTu]

HereÂ’s a reality, the game isnÂ’t played anywhere near the same as it was 29 years ago.. much less 15 years ago. Your analysis of 29 years of Xavier basketball doesnÂ’t take that into account, which is a glaring point you seem to be omitting.

HereÂ’s one major fact to the consider: XavierÂ’s 3FG% coming out of the COVID pause where they played 1 game in a span of 30 days: 36.4%
XavierÂ’s 3FG% from that point forward to end the season: 27%

Now still, that doesnÂ’t absolve Steele for butchering the final 3 games of the season for the 2nd consecutive year (and that cannot happen again or else IÂ’d absolutely agree he should be gone).. but to act as if this team canÂ’t effectively shoot the 3, or that your mind will be made up on how heÂ’s progressed as a coach after the first 5 games, is just nonsensical.

Let the whole season play out, then judge.

I agree with this. The % of FGA from 3 point range relative to the national average has remained in a similar range from Mack to Steele. The difference is in the FT Rate. Mack's team's always got to the free throw line. Steele's teams have been poor in that facet and getting worse. If you look at the % of FGA at the rim it's a similar story. More of Xavier's 2 point field goal attempts need to come at the rim. Not necessarily taking fewer 3 point attempts. (Apologies for rough formatting).

Season FT Rate National Rank
2020-2021 25.9 307
2019-2020 30.9 225
2018-2019 32.6 194
2017-2018 41.0 24
2016-2017 41.1 36
2015-2016 41.7 53
2014-2015 38.5 129
2013-2014 41.6 132
2012-2013 41.4 41
2011-2012 41.3 52
2010-2011 44.5 33
2009-2010 41.9 76

Season 3PA% National Rank
2020-2021 38.8 148
2019-2020 34.7 247
2018-2019 37.4 207
2017-2018 35.8 215
2016-2017 36.1 182
2015-2016 34.2 210
2014-2015 33.1 210
2013-2014 27.0 309
2012-2013 25.3 324
2011-2012 25.2 326
2010-2011 30.9 224
2009-2010 31.9 181

Season % Shots at Rim National Rank
2020-2021 32.1 284
2019-2020 36.6 163
2018-2019 37.6 132
2017-2018 42.9 26
2016-2017 42.7 23
2015-2016 39.7 85
2014-2015 41.5 40
2013-2014 47.2 13
2012-2013 40.8 42
2011-2012 41.7 32
2010-2011 No data No data
2009-2010 No data No data

[Muskie]

You traditionally draw less fouls when you chuck up 3's. Combine that with being worse from the line in general and you won't win many close games.

[Masterofreality]

For three years we have been letting too many guys take too many threes at an inefficient rate and it has been killing the offense. I realize that basketball is trending towards more threes; the math is pretty simple as to why. But you need to make them. Just being on the court and open should not be a green light. There is a reason certain players were wide open and it wasn't because of good ball movement. The fact that this has been happening is solely on the coaching. They were all coached to take open threes. As far as I can tell, the only person that had a red light was Tyrique. The other team comes in with a game plan to expose our weaknesses; instead of countering it, we verify our weaknesses.

Simply, the team needs to take good shots, and we haven't been doing that. What's a good shot for player A may not be a good shot for player B.
Goodin, Naji, Carter, Freemantle took way to many threes and were allowed to.

Last year - Freemantle was 3rd in 3 attempts and shot 32% (3.7 attempts per game is way too many for him; he should cut that in half and get closer to the basket where he's more efficient (51%); plus his 3 point shot just does not look natural); Carter was 8/44 (and what point is he told not to shoot ?).

Two years ago - Naji was 44/154 (28.5%), next highest attempts was Scruggs with 118 who made the same amount, 44. Q was next at 27/95 (28.4%).

Three years - Naji was 48/173 (27.8%), next highest attempts was Q at 42/141 (29.8%), then Scruggs with 136 and he made more, 51.

That's a lot of wasted possessions when the wrong guy is shooting a three. It's also all on the coaching staff to correct.

100% Truth. #Concur

[bleedXblue]

For three years we have been letting too many guys take too many threes at an inefficient rate and it has been killing the offense. I realize that basketball is trending towards more threes; the math is pretty simple as to why. But you need to make them. Just being on the court and open should not be a green light. There is a reason certain players were wide open and it wasn't because of good ball movement. The fact that this has been happening is solely on the coaching. They were all coached to take open threes. As far as I can tell, the only person that had a red light was Tyrique. The other team comes in with a game plan to expose our weaknesses; instead of countering it, we verify our weaknesses.

Simply, the team needs to take good shots, and we haven't been doing that. What's a good shot for player A may not be a good shot for player B.
Goodin, Naji, Carter, Freemantle took way to many threes and were allowed to.

Last year - Freemantle was 3rd in 3 attempts and shot 32% (3.7 attempts per game is way too many for him; he should cut that in half and get closer to the basket where he's more efficient (51%); plus his 3 point shot just does not look natural); Carter was 8/44 (and what point is he told not to shoot ?).

Two years ago - Naji was 44/154 (28.5%), next highest attempts was Scruggs with 118 who made the same amount, 44. Q was next at 27/95 (28.4%).

Three years - Naji was 48/173 (27.8%), next highest attempts was Q at 42/141 (29.8%), then Scruggs with 136 and he made more, 51.

That's a lot of wasted possessions when the wrong guy is shooting a three. It's also all on the coaching staff to correct.

We will see if Travis has the ability to change and run a more disciplined offense. If he doesn't we better make smore shots and make more stops on the defensive end. I prefer we exercise option 1 and 3.

[drudy23]

For three years we have been letting too many guys take too many threes at an inefficient rate and it has been killing the offense. I realize that basketball is trending towards more threes; the math is pretty simple as to why. But you need to make them. Just being on the court and open should not be a green light. There is a reason certain players were wide open and it wasn't because of good ball movement. The fact that this has been happening is solely on the coaching. They were all coached to take open threes. As far as I can tell, the only person that had a red light was Tyrique. The other team comes in with a game plan to expose our weaknesses; instead of countering it, we verify our weaknesses.

Simply, the team needs to take good shots, and we haven't been doing that. What's a good shot for player A may not be a good shot for player B.
Goodin, Naji, Carter, Freemantle took way to many threes and were allowed to.

Last year - Freemantle was 3rd in 3 attempts and shot 32% (3.7 attempts per game is way too many for him; he should cut that in half and get closer to the basket where he's more efficient (51%); plus his 3 point shot just does not look natural); Carter was 8/44 (and what point is he told not to shoot ?).

Two years ago - Naji was 44/154 (28.5%), next highest attempts was Scruggs with 118 who made the same amount, 44. Q was next at 27/95 (28.4%).

Three years - Naji was 48/173 (27.8%), next highest attempts was Q at 42/141 (29.8%), then Scruggs with 136 and he made more, 51.

That's a lot of wasted possessions when the wrong guy is shooting a three. It's also all on the coaching staff to correct.

Please don't remind us.

Steele loves the stretch 4 - I'm just not quite sure he knows what it means. Loves him some Villanova wings - problem is, they have pros in those spots.

You are 100% correct - it was also maddening that it basically happened for 3 straight years. Every time Steele was asked about it, his response was "hey man, he's my guy" - fantastic, tell him to stop shooting 3's. Either that, or he mean mugged and said it's not the shooting, it's the defense, and "we're gonna find out real quick who wants to be on this team". Sure Trav.

I hope that Trav is gone.

[paulxu]

Madness is Friday night.
Hope someone can attend and give us a glance at what the team looks like.

[Smails]

Please don't remind us.

I hope that Trav is gone.

So you're rooting for a failed season? Steele is the coach this year and the only way he's gone is if we have a bad year.

[xufan2020]

So you're rooting for a failed season? Steele is the coach this year and the only way he's gone is if we have a bad year.
I read his comment as he hopes “that version of Travis” is gone. Which I think we’d all agree on. Nobody wants to have a failed season, but if it does, then Travis should be gone

[drudy23]

So you're rooting for a failed season? Steele is the coach this year and the only way he's gone is if we have a bad year.

Sorry, I meant - I hope THAT Trav is gone (emphasis on THAT) - meaning, the Trav that makes excuses, mean mugs, and avoids the obvious.

[drudy23]

I read his comment as he hopes “that version of Travis” is gone. Which I think we’d all agree on. Nobody wants to have a failed season, but if it does, then Travis should be gone

Yes. This.

[MADXSTER]

Also, lets dig a little deeper into the "why" we got these results. I figure there are 2 options.

1) We weren't necessarily trying to shoot 3's, but had to settle for contested attempts that caused our actual shooting % to be lower than it should have been based on the reputation of these guys as shooters.

2) These attempts came out of a designed offense, and they weren't necessarily contented, but they didn't fall. In as sense, good shooters having an "off day", expect it lasted for 4 months.

And the more important point I was trying to make in my analysis is that it seems our surge in 3 pt attempts may be related to our noticeable reduction in Free Throw Attempts. I submit that we left more points on the line last year (last 3 years) than we could have scored if we shot 3's at remarkably high rate. Freemantle took 78 3's in what, 21 games? I like the the 35.3% he shoots, but I rather see him brining the lunchpail and work inside. An emphasis on taking 3's will result in less attempts at the rim. Thats whats been killing us....

In year 1 & 2 of the last three years, teams packed it inside(except for Georgetown) because we couldn't shoot from outside. That was a smart move by the other teams. Thus Xavier shot more from outside regardless of being contested because they were just a very very bad 3pt shooting team. Let's not forget that.

[xukeith]

So MM shows some fun. Johnson beat Kunkel in 3 point shooting. Odom won dunk contest. Oh and Freemantle is on crutches.

[GIMMFD]

I dont want to be the first to say it, but Odom needs considerable work on his game to be a guy that we can build around and hope leads out team in minutes played. His lack of outside shot will make it very difficult for him to get into the lane and finish. Lets say you were the opposing coach and had access to his game film. Would you respect his shot and play him tight on the perimeter? I wouldnt. I dare him to shoot. And I'd give myself as much of an advantage as I could when it comes to stopping the drive.

I like pretty much everything about him and dont see many weaknesses aside from shooting the 3. he kind of reminds me of Westbrook. Freak athlete for sure, but he can be defended due to his lack of deep shooting.

I think Jones can be an all time great XU player. Josh Hart.


Odom is our best defender and at a key position. As long as he stays disciplined to NOT take what the defense gives him, he should be on the court.

I'm thinking we give him the ole Semaj/Sumner treatment, the kid is too athletic to be settling for threes, he is explosive and can get to the rim, if they sag off, stay disciplined and just run the offense. Ideally, I'd love to see the Semaj jump he had where he went from 25% to 38% while doubling his 3-point attempts, so hopefully Odom is working on his shot, but Sumner did the reverse Semaj by cutting his 3-point attempts in half and was still extremely effective for that team. Odom's athletic, use that god given body.

[Xuperman]

Madness is Friday night.
Hope someone can attend and give us a glance at what the team looks like.

Just now home after the Musketeer Madness event. Here's the scoop.

Top observation is that Nate Johnson is 100% healthy and looks next level good. Just think, it was revealed few months back that he was playing injured all last year, but now is good to go and it shows. Hit 17 of 25 to win the 3 PT contest and hit 2 more in the scrimmage. As we know, a rock solid physical defender.

ZFree is hobbled. In a large walking boot AND on crutches. Can't see how he will be ready anytime soon. Not good because we have Ohio State and probably Memphis on the horizon.

Jack Nunge (Iowa transfer) did not play but did get on the floor for warm ups. He is a huge individual and seemed to be progressing nicely on the rehab. Almost game ready.

Jerome Hunter (Indiana transfer) is just WoW! Long, athletic, physical. Will be a matchup nightmare for most 3's. Seemed silky smooth with everything out there.

Dieonte Miles is ready for prime time. With 2 years of S&C under his belt, he is very imposing. A complete athletic freak for a guy his size. I was very impressed with how he attacked the basket with no hesitation and could very well be the quickest rim runner in conference.

Dwon Odom JUMPED OVER the 6'7" Hunter and finished with a violent one handed tomahawk dunk, to make the dunk contest a no brainer. That was simply incredible and easily the high decibel mark for the night. Odom is destined for greatness!

Ben Stanley is now healthy and looked fantastic. Looks to be the strongest guy on the team....just a rock with an absolute chiseled physique. Scored 8 straight at one point. Finished with 10 angry points.

Kunk was in the moment and just oozes confidence..... I mean JP type confidence. This kid is just a flat out gamer.

Paul Scruggs was the best player in the building.

X definitely comes as advertised. Extremely deep and athletic at every position. If Travis Steele manages to screw this up somehow, Head Coaching at this level is not in his future.

[noteggs]

Just now home after the Musketeer Madness event. Here's the scoop.

Top observation is that Nate Johnson is 100% healthy and looks next level good. Just think, it was revealed few months back that he was playing injured all last year, but now is good to go and it shows. Hit 17 of 25 to win the 3 PT contest and hit 2 more in the scrimmage. As we know, a rock solid physical defender.

ZFree is hobbled. In a large walking boot AND on crutches. Can't see how he will be ready anytime soon. Not good because we have Ohio State and probably Memphis on the horizon.

Jack Nunge (Iowa transfer) did not play but did get on the floor for warm ups. He is a huge individual and seemed to be progressing nicely on the rehab. Almost game ready.

Jerome Hunter (Indiana transfer) is just WoW! Long, athletic, physical. Will be a matchup nightmare for most 3's. Seemed silky smooth with everything out there.

Dieonte Miles is ready for prime time. With 2 years of S&C under his belt, he is very imposing. A complete athletic freak for a guy his size. I was very impressed with how he attacked the basket with no hesitation and could very well be the quickest rim runner in conference.

Dwon Odom JUMPED OVER the 6'7" Hunter and finished with a violent one handed tomahawk dunk, to make the dunk contest a no brainer. That was simply incredible and easily the high decibel mark for the night. Odom is destined for greatness!

Ben Stanley is now healthy and looked fantastic. Looks to be the strongest guy on the team....just a rock with an absolute chiseled physique. Scored 8 straight at one point. Finished with 10 angry points.

Kunk was in the moment and just oozes confidence..... I mean JP type confidence. This kid is just a flat out gamer.

Paul Scruggs was the best player in the building.

X definitely comes as advertised. Extremely deep and athletic at every position. If Travis Steele manages to screw this up somehow, Head Coaching at this level is not in his future.

Great to hear and thanks for the recap!

[whopper]

thanks you can't rush Freemantle sad to say..hope it is an excess of caution..damn. With Miles, Nunge, Stanley, Edwards we should be competitive in the paint which you could not have said last year..if Free out we were totally 3 point oriented. I still say if you look at Stanley's youtube against Howard (40 points) you see an inside presence at the 3 that I have rarely seen as a fan of since 2013. Great summary

[drudy23]

We seem to have balance finally. I really hope we don’t come out and fall in love with the three.

When you have a squad that deep, mismatches almost always exist. If we have games shooting 30+ 3’s again, that’s just dumb.

[paulxu]

Thanks for the recap.
Did Colby Jones play?

[bjf123]

No mention of KyKy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xuperman]

Thanks for the recap.
Did Colby Jones play?

Yes, but it definitely wasn't his night. He missed ALL 4 of his attempts in the slam dunk contest. IMO simply not enough spring in the legs. In the scrimmage he kinda got lost out there....2 points? Rebounded really well and looked absolutely cut physically!

[Xuperman]

No mention of KyKy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, it seems to be headed towards more of the same weird dynamic. I could be wrong, but I believe he didn't start the scrimmage. He didn't look engaged at all.....2 pts?

[Xville]

I have no idea why he stayed..makes zero sense to me

[noteggs]

Odom is just freakishly athletic. Interesting to see if there are improvements to his shot.

https://twitter.com/xaviermbb/status/1451705866240020484?s=10

[paulxu]

Could we sneak him into the lineup?


The legend Terrell "Tu" Holloway just walked across the Cintas Center floor after Musketeer Madness. Pretty cool to see him back here.

[XUGRAD80]

Cincinnati. Com coverage..

Check out this article from Cincinnati.com:

Musketeer Madness: Basketball, fans make triumphant return to Xavier's Cintas Center

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2021/10/23/basketball-returns-xaviers-cintas-center-musketeer-madness/6133972001/

[xukeith]

Odom is just freakishly athletic. Interesting to see if there are improvements to his shot.

https://twitter.com/xaviermbb/status/1451705866240020484?s=10

Was it Kyky who had the highest vertical jump?

[xu82]

It’s hard NOT to start getting excited! Thanks for the recap.

I don’t care if there is no defense, shooting 68% from 3 point land is impressive! Can’t wait to see ALL these guys!

[drudy23]

I have no idea why he stayed..makes zero sense to me

Agree - I hope he has a role, otherwise, not sure why he stayed. I think he can contribute if used correctly. I honestly don't care if he can't guard anyone - he can be a spark plug off the bench in spurts.

[GIMMFD]

It’s hard NOT to start getting excited! Thanks for the recap.

I don’t care if there is no defense, shooting 68% from 3 point land is impressive! Can’t wait to see ALL these guys!

Yup, I'm drinking the kool-aid, WE'RE WINNING THE NATTY THIS YEAR BOYS.

[Lloyd Braun]

I have no idea why he stayed..makes zero sense to me

Travis must be a smooth talker… but yea this makes no sense. Guess we will see when the season starts. Injuries happen but it looks like he will struggle to see the floor a lot based on what we know.

[XUBison]

Travis must be a smooth talker… but yea this makes no sense. Guess we will see when the season starts. Injuries happen but it looks like he will struggle to see the floor a lot based on what we know.

This is probably true given the history, but all we “know” now comes from the most hyperbolic poster ever to exist.

[Final4]

My random takes from attending MM (and I left two minutes early):
• New scoreboard is awesome.
• I’m aware he was on crutches but they didn’t even introduce Freemantle.
• No one sitting in the student section (aside from the band).
• Miles, during warmups, looked incredible. Quick off his feet with great elevation and ATTACKS the rim.
• Miles, during the scrimmage, looks like he needs some more time. Not very skilled in the post and didn’t finish on a few opportunities around the rim.
Showed nice touch from 10’ but seemed to get pushed around a bit. Still thin in the upper body.
• Edwards didn’t show me much if anything at all.
• Nunge seemed to move well during warmups and is a BIG body.
• I know some will disagree (in favor of Scruggs) but I think Johnson is the best player on the floor.
• I was hoping to see Odom take a 3 but he didn’t. Curious if he has been able to transform his shot.

[Strange Brew]

My random takes from attending MM (and I left two minutes early):
• New scoreboard is awesome.
• I’m aware he was on crutches but they didn’t even introduce Freemantle.
• No one sitting in the student section (aside from the band).
• Miles, during warmups, looked incredible. Quick off his feet with great elevation and ATTACKS the rim.
• Miles, during the scrimmage, looks like he needs some more time. Not very skilled in the post and didn’t finish on a few opportunities around the rim.
Showed nice touch from 10’ but seemed to get pushed around a bit. Still thin in the upper body.
• Edwards didn’t show me much if anything at all.
• Nunge seemed to move well during warmups and is a BIG body.
• I know some will disagree (in favor of Scruggs) but I think Johnson is the best player on the floor.
• I was hoping to see Odom take a 3 but he didn’t. Curious if he has been able to transform his shot.

What’s wrong with Odom’s shot? :)

[Lloyd Braun]

• Miles, during warmups, looked incredible. Quick off his feet with great elevation and ATTACKS the rim.
• Miles, during the scrimmage, looks like he needs some more time. Not very skilled in the post and didn’t finish on a few opportunities around the rim.
Showed nice touch from 10’ but seemed to get pushed around a bit. Still thin in the upper.



Dieonte Miles is ready for prime time. With 2 years of S&C under his belt, he is very imposing. A complete athletic freak for a guy his size. I was very impressed with how he attacked the basket with no hesitation and could very well be the quickest rim runner in conference.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

I think the agreement though is that he’s quick off his feet.

[drudy23]

Honestly, I think we all know that the offense isn't going to run through the bigs, but the bigs have to be some type of threat in the post on the offensive end. I don't think we will see alot of scoring from Miles on post-ups and post moves - he's in there to dunk, block shots, get rebounds, and be a menace for the opposing offense.

I think Nunge, Free and Stanley are capable of getting post buckets. I really hope the Freemantle standing on the 3 point line experiment has ended, unless he's pulling out the opposing big man.

[Xavier]

Travis must be a smooth talker… but yea this makes no sense. Guess we will see when the season starts. Injuries happen but it looks like he will struggle to see the floor a lot based on what we know.

Thought he tested the waters and no schools really came after him. At one point I thought I remember Vanderbilt had interest or something but that never came about,

[SM#24]

Pre-season polls are out and I'm always somewhat amazed at the consistency between the AP (writers) and USA Today (coaches) polls. Exact same top 25 just some minor discrepancies in actual ranking.

Xavier is 32 in the AP with 22 points. There are 63 voters in this one and I would guess that somewhere around 11 voted for Xavier.
Xavier is T44(last) in the USAT with 1 point. There are 31 voters in this one, thus 1 voted for Xavier at #25.

This is the biggest discrepancy in the Receiving Votes teams. What do the coaches know that the writers don't (or the other way around) ?
Not to stir up the most polarizing topic on this board, but I will (kind of like a "with all due respect"), could it be the coaches do not respect Steele ?

The only other thing I can come up with is writers may have a tendency to value returning players more; whereas the coaches may say, yeah they return everybody but we don't think they're very good.

[noteggs]

This is the biggest discrepancy in the Receiving Votes teams. What do the coaches know that the writers don't (or the other way around) ?
Not to stir up the most polarizing topic on this board, but I will (kind of like a "with all due respect"), could it be the coaches do not respect Steele ?

The only other thing I can come up with is writers may have a tendency to value returning players more; whereas the coaches may say, yeah they return everybody but we don't think they're very good.

I get your questions/observation. Would guess more the latter. The Coaches who know Steele the best are in the BE and they voted us to finish 3rd in conference which has me to believe some do respect his abilities somewhat?

[JTG]

I get your questions/observation. Would guess more the latter. The Coaches who know Steele the best are in the BE and they voted us to finish 3rd in conference which has me to believe some do respect his abilities somewhat?
Or they figure X is so deep even Steele couldn't screw it up.

[Xville]

Backcourt I’m unconcerned. However, lots of questions in the frontcourt—will free come back ok? Is nunge going to be healthy? How about Stanley? Can miles be part of the regular rotation and be a defensive contributor and dunker?

[Xuperman]

Backcourt I’m unconcerned. However, lots of questions in the frontcourt—will free come back ok? Is nunge going to be healthy? How about Stanley? Can miles be part of the regular rotation and be a defensive contributor and dunker?

Yeah, the frontcourt court could become dicey in a hurry. It all hinges on Nunge early on because we know that Free will be unavailable for the first few and Miles is a complete unknown. Besides is it realistic to think Zach will be 100% when he does get green lighted? Based on what is being said about the type of injury, it could very well linger and the possibility of re-injury is always there.

Hey....YES we can get those early W's regardless of the situation, but IMO Nunge and Miles have to combine for north of 30 EFFECTIVE minutes starting on the 18th to hang with the Buckeyes and the other big Non Cons scheduled. Granted, Stanley did play a monster 5 at Hampton, but won't really work with what is coming the 18th and beyond.

If things get crazy, Stanley, Hunter, Jones, Scruggs, Johnson, Odom could surprise. Good enough to open a can on UC anyway.
:drinks:

[noteggs]

Lol Those were my thoughts as well. Trying to take new attitude this year so refrained.

Edit: this was a response to JTG’s.

[hoopster68]

Lol Those were my thoughts as well. Trying to take new attitude this year so refrained.

Yes, I have a "new attitude" too. I'm trying to remain complimentary/positive toward the coaching staff. This season demands results, which in my mind include the NCAA tourney, and a trip to the second weekend. Anything less is a failure which demands a coaching change.

[xudash]

Or they figure X is so deep even Steele couldn't screw it up.

I don't believe talent can win in spite of a bad coaching staff.

The coaches know that. Xavier has been voted in the 3rd position due to the entire organization: coaches and players.

Here come the "EXCUSES!" rants again, but I truly believe Steele has been dealt 3 of the craziest starting years for a new HC possible (i.e. poor roster construction in the beginning, key injuries along the way and COVID). Well, "he played Carter for way too many minutes!" Yes he did. No doubt about it. What I'm not sure we know is whether or not he had any other viable options. Hindsight says he did have other options, because Carter never was able to rise to the occasion during critical points in a game. But hindsight is easy. I personally don't need and I don't want for others to start chasing their tails about all this all over again. I'll stop here.

Practically everyone is saying it / in agreement at this point: he has the roster, now he has to show he knows what to do with it.

We shall soon see.

[drudy23]

Free is an important player - but I think this team is much more efficient with true bigs in the post making them more balanced. Free spent way too much time on the 3 point line. Nunge won't do that and neither will Miles.

Having true bigs as a threat will open up the perimeter where the strength of this team is. Capable post players actually playing in the post will make this team better.

I'm not saying the team is better without Free - but Free belongs in the post. We have plenty of perimeter oriented players. I don't mind these bigs taking an occasional 3, but Free took way too many thinking he was a stretch 3 (or Steele playing him that way).

[xukeith]

I don't know if Freemantle will be 100% this year or not.. I am assuming that being a big post player and running on a bad foot can't be good.
Hope the bone heals and Freemantle can rehab all those muscles around his foot to stabilize.

I don't mind Freemantle shooting 3's. He is not the worst shooter in the world. He can take a larger big man out and score. Now how many threes? I would let him shoot no more than 7 threes a game (3 1/2 each half).
Some people LOVE to bitch.
Negativity and gloom are some posters' bread and butter.

[drudy23]

I don't know if Freemantle will be 100% this year or not.. I am assuming that being a big post player and running on a bad foot can't be good.
Hope the bone heals and Freemantle can rehab all those muscles around his foot to stabilize.

I don't mind Freemantle shooting 3's. He is not the worst shooter in the world. He can take a larger big man out and score. Now how many threes? I would let him shoot no more than 7 threes a game (3 1/2 each half).
Some people LOVE to bitch.
Negativity and gloom are some posters' bread and butter.

“He can take a large big man out and score” - sure, if the large big man actually cares that he’s out there. ZERO Big East teams fear Freemantle beating them from 3. In fact, part of their game plans were to LET him step out and shoot 3s knowing he may make a couple but it won’t be enough to beat them. Let’s stop acting like he’s a stretch 4 - he’s not, and putting him out there like that makes our coach look like a moron.

[Fireball]

Honestly, I suspect if Zach is unsure about his foot at all this year, he'll be spending MORE time on the perimeter, not less. If he can come back somewhere near full strength, then it will ultimately her the team with the other bigs getting more time in the non-conference, but only if those guys can stay healthy. The injury history for Nunge, Miles, and Stanley doesn't make me feel great on that front, either.

Hopefully we'll get a bit lucky.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Free is an important player - but I think this team is much more efficient with true bigs in the post making them more balanced. Free spent way too much time on the 3 point line. Nunge won't do that and neither will Miles.

Having true bigs as a threat will open up the perimeter where the strength of this team is. Capable post players actually playing in the post will make this team better.

I'm not saying the team is better without Free - but Free belongs in the post. We have plenty of perimeter oriented players. I don't mind these bigs taking an occasional 3, but Free took way too many thinking he was a stretch 3 (or Steele playing him that way).

Yes to above. Three point shooting is one of Free's strengths. But, any strength, overly used, can become a weakness. I don't think we should force Free into a style of play that doesn't best suit his skills and I don't think he is a true post player. Still, we appear to have sufficient three point shooting and Free can better hit the offensive glass if he isn't hanging around the three point line. I'm 100% with you that better play in the paint will bring more balance to the offense----something we lacked last year.

[Masterofreality]

Ummm. It’s just a scrimmage, but Vandy is supposed to be horrible. Picked second to last in the SEC this year..
Not good
Xavier dropped its “secret scrimmage” today against Vandy 77-65.

Johnson: 17 pts (6-14 FG)
Kunkel: 14 pts (5-12 FG)
Hunter: 10 pts (3-7 FG)

Colby put up just 3 pts, but led the team in rebounding with 11

[hoopster68]

Ummm. It’s just a scrimmage, but Vandy is supposed to be horrible. Picked second to last in the SEC this year..
Not good
Xavier dropped its “secret scrimmage” today against Vandy 77-65.

Johnson: 17 pts (6-14 FG)
Kunkel: 14 pts (5-12 FG)
Hunter: 10 pts (3-7 FG)

Colby put up just 3 pts, but led the team in rebounding with 11

MOR: if this is correct, we might have a long season ahead. A (scrimmage) loss in October is not the way to start. Or, is this just a Halloween trick?

[XUBob]

I’m sure this will make everyone feel good X was 11-32 from three, talk among yourselves.

[xukeith]

I’m sure this will make everyone feel good X was 11-32 from three, talk among yourselves.
Not too shabby. Anyone know if Nunge played?

Counting Musketeer Madness and a scrimmage, Colby Jones might be afraid of the basketball. Just kidding. We will find out more about this team when they play OSU

[HAB67]

Would love to hear more about the "secret scrimmage", e.g., who played, what lineups looked like, who played the 5 and the 4 and how many minutes. As for Vanderbilt, I have no knowledge, but KenPom forecasts them at 79 nationally and Bart Torvik 88. Those are higher than most of our opponents before conference play. Vanderbilt also had already played a scrimmage against Clemson.

It would be great if someone could dig out something close to a box score.

[xukeith]

MOR: if this is correct, we might have a long season ahead. A (scrimmage) loss in October is not the way to start. Or, is this just a Halloween trick?

Providence is not supposed to be in the top half of the BE. Providence beat #4 Purdue in a scrimmage today.
There is little correlation between a NCAA team and win/loss record against preseason exhibitions in October. Scrimmages happen everywhere.
Often coaches will agree to play different defenses to see how teams respond, see Duke/Villanova exhibition, etc.

[drudy23]

I’m sure this will make everyone feel good X was 11-32 from three, talk among yourselves.

Why on earth would you shoot 32 3’s in a scrimmage?

I know it’s just a scrimmage - but it’s also been the Steele calling card for 3 years. Maybe he’s messing with us. Or maybe it’s who he is.

[Xavier]

A lot of people getting worked up over a scrimmage. I am not a Steele apologist (he has shown flashes) but I think the talent on the team is dang good. He put that together. The pieces are in place. It’s a win win season for me- I hope Travis puts it together and does great and we win a tournament game.I think he can and this can be a really good team…. If he doesn’t- Travis experiment is over and we get to start fresh.

* I say win a tournament game because at this point just making it won’t show enough.

[UCGRAD4X]

A lot of people getting worked up over a scrimmage. I am not a Steele apologist (he has shown flashes) but I think the talent on the team is dang good. He put that together. The pieces are in place. It’s a win win season for me- I hope Travis puts it together and does great and we win a tournament game.I think he can and this can be a really good team…. If he doesn’t- Travis experiment is over and we get to start fresh.

* I say win a tournament game because at this point just making it won’t show enough.

I don't think there is as huge an argument about the talent (and depth) of the players as there is with the coach(es).

But...I remain positive.

Until I'm not.

[XUGRAD80]

Why on earth would you shoot 32 3’s in a scrimmage?

I know it’s just a scrimmage - but it’s also been the Steele calling card for 3 years. Maybe he’s messing with us. Or maybe it’s who he is.

While I have no answer to your first question, I’ll answer your 2nd.

It IS who he is. Thus my pessimistic outlook for this team.

[Xuperman]

While I have no answer to your first question, I’ll answer your 2nd.

It IS who he is. Thus my pessimistic outlook for this team.

I don't know if it is who he truly is, but I thought the popular theory on this board is who he WANTS to be.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/222/season/2019

This is what it looks like when a team chucks up 32 3's per game. Their season totals from distance are very similar to the percentages of the Vandy scrimmage. You know at least one of those 21 misses rattled out......if just one more goes down your % is pretty dang good. It's a proven winning formula and Steele seems to be actively working to emulate..... Problem is he is no GQJ!

So is the criticism here on the 32 attempts are based on the fact that one more didn't go down?

[drudy23]

I don't know if it is who he truly is, but I thought the popular theory on this board is who he WANTS to be.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/222/season/2019

This is what it looks like when a team chucks up 32 3's per game. Their season totals from distance are very similar to the percentages of the Vandy scrimmage. You know at least one of those 21 misses rattled out......if just one more goes down your % is pretty dang good. It's a proven winning formula and Steele seems to be actively working to emulate..... Problem is he is no GQJ!

So is the criticism here on the 32 attempts are based on the fact that one more didn't go down?

Who besides Nate Johnson is going to shoot close to 38% from 3? Maybe KyKy, but he doesn’t play. If you’re looking at stats, look at the career 3 point percentages of everyone not named Nate Johnson and you’ll see why this strategy for this team isn’t one they should lead with.

Not to mention Kunkel was second on the team in shots in the scrimmage. We’ve seen this before - it probably is who he is - I really hope I’m wrong.

[drudy23]

I just looked - we shot 32% as a team last year. That’s pretty bad. Outside of Johnson, everyone else was either in the low 30’s, high 20’s, or high teens (Odom and Carter). If you can make them, sure, shoot a bunch of them. If you shoot like they do, why on earth would your gameplan be to lead with a team weakness? Because it’s the new age, progressive basketball style? It’s a losing recipe for how this team is constructed.

For some reason, people think we have guys that can shoot well. Johnson can, and our next best shooter is KyKy, and we all know we don’t him very often on the court. There’s no reason for this squad to be shooting that many 3s ever.

Villanova had 6 guys that shot it at 35% or better. We have two, and one of them never plays. The “winning formula” isn’t in shooting them, it’s in making them. We’re not Villanova and he’s not GQJ. Create a Xavier identity.

[Masterofreality]

I just looked - we shot 32% as a team last year. That’s pretty bad. Outside of Johnson, everyone else was either in the low 30’s, high 20’s, or high teens (Odom and Carter). If you can make them, sure, shoot a bunch of them. If you shoot like they do, why on earth would your gameplan be to lead with a team weakness? Because it’s the new age, progressive basketball style? It’s a losing recipe for how this team is constructed.

For some reason, people think we have guys that can shoot well. Johnson can, and our next best shooter is KyKy, and we all know we don’t him very often on the court. There’s no reason for this squad to be shooting that many 3s ever.

Villanova had 6 guys that shot it at 35% or better. We have two, and one of them never plays. The “winning formula” isn’t in shooting them, it’s in making them. We’re not Villanova and he’s not GQJ. Create a Xavier identity.

Add to that, our leading rebounder was Colby?? Where are these Big Men we hear tell of?

[Xuperman]

Who besides Nate Johnson is going to shoot close to 38% from 3? Maybe KyKy, but he doesn’t play. If you’re looking at stats, look at the career 3 point percentages of everyone not named Nate Johnson and you’ll see why this strategy for this team isn’t one they should lead with.

Not to mention Kunkel was second on the team in shots in the scrimmage. We’ve seen this before - it probably is who he is - I really hope I’m wrong.

Man, ye of little faith.

You don't think Scruggy can get to 37-38% in his swan song? You don't think Kunk can produce at his sophomore numbers, now that the Cintas rims are a full year more familiar? You don't think Tandy can buy into the roll player mentality and microwave his way to 15+ mpg? You have no faith that CoJo's extensive work on his shot will pay off? Your not expecting that Steele's intention to really focus on ball movement, will produce many more clean looks? Heck, is it a bridge too far to think Hunter can't rattle in 3 more to last years numbers and improve to 37%ish?

Apparently, you and the majority here are not very high on any of these things to happen. IMO they all seem inevitable.

[xuphan]

I don't think there is as huge an argument about the talent (and depth) of the players as there is with the coach(es).

But...I remain positive.

Until I'm not.

I am not bothered about preseason scrimmage results but Steele in my opinion is the most important factor on how successful this season is. I can see this team being a comfortable tournament team and I can also see this team fighting for an NIT spot. Steele has to make better in-game adjustments when the team is struggling with the current system. Whether it is the other team taking away our strengths, players not making perimeter shots, or a player is having an off-game. He had to make adjustments and grind out wins.

[drudy23]

Man, ye of little faith.

You don't think Scruggy can get to 37-38% in his swan song? You don't think Kunk can produce at his sophomore numbers, now that the Cintas rims are a full year more familiar? You don't think Tandy can buy into the roll player mentality and microwave his way to 15+ mpg? You have no faith that CoJo's extensive work on his shot will pay off? Your not expecting that Steele's intention to really focus on ball movement, will produce many more clean looks? Heck, is it a bridge too far to think Hunter can't rattle in 3 more to last years numbers and improve to 37%ish?

Apparently, you and the majority here are not very high on any of these things to happen. IMO they all seem inevitable.

1) Yes I think Scruggs is capable of that
2) Kunkel struggled big time in Big East play against Big East guards. I’d expect that to continue this year. He’s a serviceable reserve, not someone who should be the second or third leader in shot attempts
3) Tandy can’t contribute if he doesn’t play
4) Yes I think Colby is capable of big improvements
5) I’ve heard the same mantra from Steele for 4 years now - the first 3 years the opposite of what he said happened - I see better than I hear
6) Don’t know a lot about Hunter - hoping for the best from him

The talent is there. The decision making and how the team pulls together and executes is my concern (which basically falls on the decision making of the coach).

[Xuperman]

Villanova had 6 guys that shot it at 35% or better. We have two, and one of them never plays. The “winning formula” isn’t in shooting them, it’s in making them. We’re not Villanova and he’s not GQJ. Create a Xavier identity.

My point was that numbers don't lie. Villanova's TEAM stats from distance that year, when compared the the single game numbers for the scrimmage are very close. Did Nova do alot of other things that year that will be hard to match? Absolutely. But we are comparing 3 PT numbers/%.

[xukeith]

I am not bothered about preseason scrimmage results but Steele in my opinion is the most important factor on how successful this season is. I can see this team being a comfortable tournament team and I can also see this team fighting for an NIT spot. Steele has to make better in-game adjustments when the team is struggling with the current system. Whether it is the other team taking away our strengths, players not making perimeter shots, or a player is having an off-game. He had to make adjustments and grind out wins.

I feel Johnson, Kunkel, and Scruggs all could be between 36-40% from three.

All 3 of them have shown at least one full season of shooting 36% or higher.

Over the last 3 years Villanova has averaged 35% from 3. They also averaged about 26-28 3 point attempts per game.

[xukeith]

Post production helps shooters too. So we can also focus on Stanley, Nunge, Miles, and Freemantle

[drudy23]

My point was that numbers don't lie. Villanova's TEAM stats from distance that year, when compared the the single game numbers for the scrimmage are very close. Did Nova do alot of other things that year that will be hard to match? Absolutely. But we are comparing 3 PT numbers/%.

Well you can’t really make valid comparisons when looking at season stats vs one game.

I can remember a couple games last year when X shot lights out from 3. But not on a consistent basis like Nova did all season.

They make more and shoot less 3s. That’s super efficient.

The only thing more 3s does for a team that doesn’t shoot it well is more missed shots. We shoot more and make less - not good.

[drudy23]

Post production helps shooters too. So we can also focus on Stanley, Nunge, Miles, and Freemantle

Very true - an obvious hole the past few years. Doesn’t help that Freemantle was on the 3 point line the majority of the time.

[Xuperman]

Kunkel struggled big time in Big East play against Big East guards. I’d expect that to continue this year. He’s a serviceable reserve, not someone who should be the second or third leader in shot attempts.

Have you not noticed that Kunk has bulked up? If not, he has for that specific reason. Besides, isn't it reasonable to expect picks/ball movement to vastly improve? More clean looks will help take some of the BE guard size out of the equation for Kunkel.

This roster is obviously WAY better than lasts. Actually the same roster, just one year more experienced and noticeably STRONGER across the board + Nunge and Hunter. I cant see how that will not translate into a significant improvement in the numbers from 3.

[drudy23]

Have you not noticed that Kunk has bulked up? If not, he has for that specific reason. Besides, isn't it reasonable to expect picks/ball movement to vastly improve? More clean looks will help take some of the BE guard size out of the equation for Kunkel.

This roster is obviously WAY better than lasts. Actually the same roster, just one year more experienced and noticeably STRONGER across the board + Nunge and Hunter. I cant see how that will not translate into a significant improvement in the numbers from 3.

I’m optimistic about the season, but not because we can shoot the 3.

This team SHOULD be able to play a balanced style with the pieces they have. I just hope it doesn’t turn into chucking up a bunch of 3s again for the 4th year in a row.

There is no excuse to not make the tournament this year.

[xukeith]

every team's 3P% should increase this season.

2020-21 3p% were never lower for X, VU, UConn, and SH over the past 6 years.

Bluiett's senior year team was not to great from 3 compared to other teams.

X has had a good 3p% back in 2016 with Davis and Bluiett hitting solid numbers.

[Final4]

Of note from the scrimmage at Vandy……..Scotty Pippen Jr led all scorers with 27 points and by some accounts was the best player on the floor.

[drudy23]

Of note from the scrimmage at Vandy……..Scotty Pippen Jr led all scorers with 27 points and by some accounts was the best player on the floor.

That's not surprising - he's a likely draft pick. We don't have any draft picks.

[BandDad]

Can't look at three-point shooting numbers from last year as they are irrelevant. XU missed 42 practices last year due to COVID (second highest number in the NCAA last year). Players were not allowed out of their quarantine for long chunks of time, so players couldn't even go to the gym and shoot on their own. Expecting good shooting from players last year would be a pipe dream.

All that being said, I am not apologizing for Steele as I do think it is clearly a make or break year for him. We have some horses - can't he get results with them?

[nuts4xu]

2020-21 3p% were never lower for X, VU, UConn, and SH over the past 6 years.



Keep in mind they moved the line back last season, which contributed to the low 3 point shooting percentages for ALL of college basketball...except Nate Johnson, of course.

[MHettel]

Can't look at three-point shooting numbers from last year as they are irrelevant. XU missed 42 practices last year due to COVID (second highest number in the NCAA last year). Players were not allowed out of their quarantine for long chunks of time, so players couldn't even go to the gym and shoot on their own. Expecting good shooting from players last year would be a pipe dream.



Lets assume this lack of practice time DID have a detrimental effect on the shooting of all the players that resulted in some "rust" and a low made 3PT Percentage. Lets just call that a FACT.

Why run THAT offense? This is where coaching comes in...

[XU 87]

2) Kunkel struggled big time in Big East play against Big East guards. I’d expect that to continue this year. He’s a serviceable reserve, not someone who should be the second or third leader in shot attempts

The talent is there. The decision making and how the team pulls together and executes is my concern (which basically falls on the decision making of the coach).

I thought Kunkel's biggest problem last year was he couldn't make threes, and it seemed like he had a lot of good looks.

As for your last paragraph, I agree. The talent is there. If X doesn't make the tourney this year, absent injuries, then that falls on Steele.

[IM4X]

Even without any injuries, it was going to be a bit of a concern how well the bigs would defend in the paint. Now with Freemantle out for 8 weeks or so that concern has grown to include scoring in the paint. Is it possible that Miles and Nunge are playing at a high level? Are our remaining bigs going to be ready to compete in the BE or are they going to struggle? Guess we’ll find out soon.

Well, it helps a ton knowing Nate is back healthy and still shooting the 3 ball well.

[xukeith]

Even without any injuries, it was going to be a bit of a concern how well the bigs would defend in the paint. Now with Freemantle out for 8 weeks or so that concern has grown to include scoring in the paint. Is it possible that Miles and Nunge are playing at a high level? Are our remaining bigs going to be ready to compete in the BE or are they going to struggle? Guess we’ll find out soon.

Well, it helps a ton knowing Nate is back healthy and still shooting the 3 ball well.

Without a healthy Zach, I can't imagine Miles averaging double digits. HE is still too green. I know he has improved but I have some small doubts.
We rely now on Nunge, Stanley, Hunter, and Edwards to contribute.

Looking forward to Ferris St.

[JTG]

Without a healthy Zach, I can't imagine Miles averaging double digits. HE is still too green. I know he has improved but I have some small doubts.
We rely now on Nunge, Stanley, Hunter, and Edwards to contribute.

Looking forward to Ferris St.

Nunge and Hunter played in the BIG, I think they're both used to going against gargantuan post players. Let's hope so anyway.

[XUGRAD80]

Without a healthy Zach, I can't imagine Miles averaging double digits. HE is still too green. I know he has improved but I have some small doubts.
We rely now on Nunge, Stanley, Hunter, and Edwards to contribute.

Looking forward to Ferris St.

Edwards is even MORE green, isn’t he? #Faceinpalm

[XUGRAD80]

I’m optimistic about the season, but not because we can shoot the 3.

This team SHOULD be able to play a balanced style with the pieces they have. I just hope it doesn’t turn into chucking up a bunch of 3s again for the 4th year in a row.

There is no excuse to not make the tournament this year.

If Fremantle doesn’t play the bulk of this year they have almost no chance of making the tourney. That’s not an excuse, it’s an opinion. But a coach lives or dies by the players they choose and are able to recruit. Steele has rolled the dice on a couple of transfers with dubious medical and athletic histories. If they fail to produce the impact will be huge. Freak injuries are part of the deal and not always something that can be controlled. However, building a roster that can absorb some injuries and playing a style that takes advantage of the strengths of the players is part of a coaches job. They’ve got a lot to prove this year.

[drudy23]

If Fremantle doesn’t play the bulk of this year they have almost no chance of making the tourney. That’s not an excuse, it’s an opinion. But a coach lives or dies by the players they choose and are able to recruit. Steele has rolled the dice on a couple of transfers with dubious medical and athletic histories. If they fail to produce the impact will be huge. Freak injuries are part of the deal and not always something that can be controlled. However, building a roster that can absorb some injuries and playing a style that takes advantage of the strengths of the players is part of a coaches job. They’ve got a lot to prove this year.

I disagree. Steele has enough weapons at his disposal to make it happen. No excuses this year for not making the tournament.

We've got a 6'8 athlete with experience (Hunter) and two 7 footers, one with solid Big Ten experience. NO EXCUSES. We've got two other 6'7 and 6'8 bigs that are young but who cares - a ton of players contribute as underclassmen. This doesn't even include Stanley who is a banger and physical.

If all of those guys are duds at the Big East level, that's a BIG coaching problem.

In saying all of that, the strength of our team is on the perimeter, so these guys just have to be servicable in the paint to help this team win. They don't have to be all-conference type players - just solid.

[xukeith]

I disagree. Steele has enough weapons at his disposal to make it happen. No excuses this year for not making the tournament.

We've got a 6'8 athlete with experience (Hunter) and two 7 footers, one with solid Big Ten experience. NO EXCUSES. We've got two other 6'7 and 6'8 bigs that are young but who cares - a ton of players contribute as underclassmen. This doesn't even include Stanley who is a banger and physical.

If all of those guys are duds at the Big East level, that's a BIG coaching problem.

In saying all of that, the strength of our team is on the perimeter, so these guys just have to be servicable in the paint to help this team win. They don't have to be all-conference type players - just solid.

So you think X should play ELIJAH TUCKER? Pull him out of the redshirt?

[drudy23]

So you think X should play ELIJAH TUCKER? Pull him out of the redshirt?

I forgot he was a redshirt - but there's no reason Edwards can't contribute - he's a top 100 guy isn't he? Those guys can make a dent as freshman.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Also disagree. To be sure Free will ne missed. But, we have a bunch of bigs (admittedly of unknown) quality but resumes are decent and size is good. No excuses this year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If Fremantle doesn’t play the bulk of this year they have almost no chance of making the tourney. That’s not an excuse, it’s an opinion. But a coach lives or dies by the players they choose and are able to recruit. Steele has rolled the dice on a couple of transfers with dubious medical and athletic histories. If they fail to produce the impact will be huge. Freak injuries are part of the deal and not always something that can be controlled. However, building a roster that can absorb some injuries and playing a style that takes advantage of the strengths of the players is part of a coaches job. They’ve got a lot to prove this year.

If Steele/X miss the tournament this year and Freemantle is the only injured player that is another huge mark against Steele. I would move on.

This is a no excuse year for me. We've been hearing about all the depth this team has, one or two injuries shouldnt derail the season. I get it makes it harder but other teams have injuries and make it work. Steele has to be able to come through here healthy Freemantle or not.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I disagree. Steele has enough weapons at his disposal to make it happen. No excuses this year for not making the tournament.

We've got a 6'8 athlete with experience (Hunter) and two 7 footers, one with solid Big Ten experience. NO EXCUSES. We've got two other 6'7 and 6'8 bigs that are young but who cares - a ton of players contribute as underclassmen. This doesn't even include Stanley who is a banger and physical.

If all of those guys are duds at the Big East level, that's a BIG coaching problem.

In saying all of that, the strength of our team is on the perimeter, so these guys just have to be servicable in the paint to help this team win. They don't have to be all-conference type players - just solid.

Totally agree.

[UCGRAD4X]

So, what we're saying is, if there are (more) injuries, it will be even more important for Steele to show off his unique ability at in-game personnel management?

[XUGRAD80]

I think some of you think that I’m making excuses for Steele. I’m not. I’m just tampering my enthusiasm with a dose of reality. Fremantle is injured and we don’t know how long it will be before he comes back at full strength. It might be as soon as 6-8 weeks, but it could also be something that lingers all year. Nunge, coming off knee injuries, didn’t play in the scrimmage and really hasn’t been full-go in preseason training and practice. Hunter is coming off injuries and was only a reserve player when fully healthy. We have heard more than once from the coaching staff over the last couple of years that such and such a player had vastly improved over the off-season and was going to be a major player during the season, or was going to be an impact freshman. How often has that proven to be the actual case? Heck, Carter was an all-star player in the MAC. How did that pan out? So I’m taking all of the hype about how this player is going to come in and solidify the front line, or how that player is 100% healthy and can shoot “lights out”, etc. with a grain of salt. I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t trust the words doing out of the coaches mouth. It’s become all coach speak and hyperbole to my ears. I agree, no more excuses. But I also say, no more pre-season optimism either. Coach, you’ve built this roster, it’s yours. Stop TELLING us how great the team will play, how well they will pass the ball, shoot the ball, rebound, and play great defense. SHOW us. If it’s all true, GREAT! I’ll be extremely happy and this will be a fun season. But I’m not jumping on the bandwagon until I SEE it.

[drudy23]

I think some of you think that I’m making excuses for Steele. I’m not. I’m just tampering my enthusiasm with a dose of reality. Fremantle is injured and we don’t know how long it will be before he comes back at full strength. It might be as soon as 6-8 weeks, but it could also be something that lingers all year. Nunge, coming off knee injuries, didn’t play in the scrimmage and really hasn’t been full-go in preseason training and practice. Hunter is coming off injuries and was only a reserve player when fully healthy. We have heard more than once from the coaching staff over the last couple of years that such and such a player had vastly improved over the off-season and was going to be a major player during the season, or was going to be an impact freshman. How often has that proven to be the actual case? Heck, Carter was an all-star player in the MAC. How did that pan out? So I’m taking all of the hype about how this player is going to come in and solidify the front line, or how that player is 100% healthy and can shoot “lights out”, etc. with a grain of salt. I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t trust the words doing out of the coaches mouth. It’s become all coach speak and hyperbole to my ears. I agree, no more excuses. But I also say, no more pre-season optimism either. Coach, you’ve built this roster, it’s yours. Stop TELLING us how great the team will play, how well they will pass the ball, shoot the ball, rebound, and play great defense. SHOW us. If it’s all true, GREAT! I’ll be extremely happy and this will be a fun season. But I’m not jumping on the bandwagon until I SEE it.

Fair points.

You are right that things usually don’t pan out the way Steele says they will. In fact, the opposite usually happens.

My favorite was the preseason “this will be the best defensive team we’ve ever had” and ended up being one of the worst.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think some of you think that I’m making excuses for Steele. I’m not. I’m just tampering my enthusiasm with a dose of reality. Fremantle is injured and we don’t know how long it will be before he comes back at full strength. It might be as soon as 6-8 weeks, but it could also be something that lingers all year. Nunge, coming off knee injuries, didn’t play in the scrimmage and really hasn’t been full-go in preseason training and practice. Hunter is coming off injuries and was only a reserve player when fully healthy. We have heard more than once from the coaching staff over the last couple of years that such and such a player had vastly improved over the off-season and was going to be a major player during the season, or was going to be an impact freshman. How often has that proven to be the actual case? Heck, Carter was an all-star player in the MAC. How did that pan out? So I’m taking all of the hype about how this player is going to come in and solidify the front line, or how that player is 100% healthy and can shoot “lights out”, etc. with a grain of salt. I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t trust the words doing out of the coaches mouth. It’s become all coach speak and hyperbole to my ears. I agree, no more excuses. But I also say, no more pre-season optimism either. Coach, you’ve built this roster, it’s yours. Stop TELLING us how great the team will play, how well they will pass the ball, shoot the ball, rebound, and play great defense. SHOW us. If it’s all true, GREAT! I’ll be extremely happy and this will be a fun season. But I’m not jumping on the bandwagon until I SEE it.

I agree. It is put up or shut up time. The roster seems deep, if its really not, that is on Steele. If it is and we are still unsuccessful that is on Steele.

The roster may not be what we all hope it is, if it isn't, that isnt an excuse for Steele, it is an indictment against him.

[JTG]

We seem to hear endlessly about who can play defense. Who can or can't pick it up. Is it too complicated, and could be simplified ? Or does Steele just not know how to teach it in simple terms ? I have never been a fan of our bigs coming out 20 feet from the basket to guard. It seems like that just invites driving to the basket, and the big being totally out of position. Not sure what the answer is but I'd try something easier, or change my teaching technique. Heck Miller is idle, have him spend a week working with the boys.

[Xavier]

Fair points.

You are right that things usually don’t pan out the way Steele says they will. In fact, the opposite usually happens.

My favorite was the preseason “this will be the best defensive team we’ve ever had” and ended up being one of the worst.

Meh, classic coach speak. He seems to use media to get his players to buy in/confidence and it’s obvious. I’m surprised so many people take it to heart.

[drudy23]

Meh, classic coach speak. He seems to use media to get his players to buy in/confidence and it’s obvious. I’m surprised so many people take it to heart.

That may be true, but I have never seen using the media to motivate your players be very successful. In fact, I'm guessing they hate it.

Cronin constantly did it and there's no way his players respected that.

[Xavier]

Completely agree. Within a month of his first season I said the first red flag is he sounds a lot like Cronin….though maybe Mick is on to something at UCLA

[xukeith]

According to Steele, team 100 will be the fastest team he has ever seen at X.

He says Miles is elite rim runner, catching and defending in transition and coming off screens, he is fantastic and a good rim protector.

Scruggs is shooting 40% from 3 with Jones. Kunkel and Johnson are both shooting an great volume of threes and hitting 45% on average live.

[Xville]

According to Steele, team 100 will be the fastest team he has ever seen at X.

He says Miles is elite rim runner, catching and defending in transition and coming off screens, he is fantastic and a good rim protector.

Scruggs is shooting 40% from 3 with Jones. Kunkel and Johnson are both shooting an great volume of threes and hitting 45% on average live.

We talking bout practice, man? Practice? We talkin bout practice? Not a game, practice? Practice?

[drudy23]

According to Steele, team 100 will be the fastest team he has ever seen at X.

He says Miles is elite rim runner, catching and defending in transition and coming off screens, he is fantastic and a good rim protector.

Scruggs is shooting 40% from 3 with Jones. Kunkel and Johnson are both shooting an great volume of threes and hitting 45% on average live.

It only counts if he says "man" after it.

Followed by a "my guy" - and then a mean mug when things aren't acceptable, yet continue to be accepted.

I really hope this guy has a good year because I'm sick of having to call out his BS. Maybe he's finally right with his pre-season quips.

[drudy23]

We talking bout practice, man? Practice? We talkin bout practice? Not a game, practice? Practice?

Did someone say practice points?

[IM4X]

Without a healthy Zach, I can't imagine Miles averaging double digits. HE is still too green. I know he has improved but I have some small doubts.
We rely now on Nunge, Stanley, Hunter, and Edwards to contribute.

Looking forward to Ferris St.

I’m thinking the same thing about Miles. Almost nothing would make me happier this season than to see Miles emerge as a legit BE threat both as a scorer and as a defender. I have been concerned about our inside game for years. We badly need another “big” to step up and play at high level other than Free. I think Stanley and Hunter will be solid, but I think we all would feel a little better knowing we have athletic bigger body that can match up well against other bigger 4 and 5s. Then, again, maybe Nunge will prove to be more like a Hankins type player when he is at 100%. Wouldn’t that be a nice surprise.

And yes, the Ferris State game can’t get here soon enough.

[IM4X]

I just looked - we shot 32% as a team last year. That’s pretty bad. Outside of Johnson, everyone else was either in the low 30’s, high 20’s, or high teens (Odom and Carter). If you can make them, sure, shoot a bunch of them. If you shoot like they do, why on earth would your gameplan be to lead with a team weakness? Because it’s the new age, progressive basketball style? It’s a losing recipe for how this team is constructed.

For some reason, people think we have guys that can shoot well. Johnson can, and our next best shooter is KyKy, and we all know we don’t him very often on the court. There’s no reason for this squad to be shooting that many 3s ever.

Villanova had 6 guys that shot it at 35% or better. We have two, and one of them never plays. The “winning formula” isn’t in shooting them, it’s in making them. We’re not Villanova and he’s not GQJ. Create a Xavier identity.

Absolutely. I’ve been saying that since Naji’s last year. It drove me nuts to hear Steele say during post pressers that year, “If they have the shot I am okay with them taking it. It just isn’t falling yet.”

Meanwhile, we’re all thinking, “No sh!+ it isn’t dropping coach. The guys taking the most of the 3s are the absolute worst 3 point shooters on the team. Just because you have an open look doesn’t mean it’s a good shot. More likely, the player has the open look because the opposing coach has told his players to leave that specific player open so he takes that shot. Steele fell for it two years ago (Goodin) and again last year (Carter). Last year, we were looking really good from 3 early on. mostly because Johnson was healthy and taking most of the shots.

Maybe Kunkel and some of the others have gotten better. I am okay with them testing the waters early on. If they are going down, have at it. If not, Steele can’t once again be of the mindset “If someone has an open shot they have the green light to take it - Eventually they’ll start falling.”

[IM4X]

It only counts if he says "man" after it.

Followed by a "my guy" - and then a mean mug when things aren't acceptable, yet continue to be accepted.

I really hope this guy has a good year because I'm sick of having to call out his BS. Maybe he's finally right with his pre-season quips.


Steele will have my support unless we start looking unprepared and we start hearing excuses again. This is not a year for excuses. This issue can not be negotiable. There is no, “Well he should get one more year.” No way.

He needs to put on his big boy pants and make the tournament this year, if for no other reason than because the only remaining players who have been to the dance are gone after this year. It’s important to have players on the roster who have had the experience of making the dance and advancing.

No more excuses. This is the year for Steele. He has all of the players he needs. He’s had several years to learn how to be a good head coach. Now he just needs to get it done. Period. Exclamation Point. Let’s Go X!

[American X]

Completely agree. Within a month of his first season I said the first red flag is he sounds a lot like Cronin

Do you mean our Mick Cronin Lite?

[Masterofreality]

Steele will have my support unless we start looking unprepared and we start hearing excuses again. This is not a year for excuses. This issue can be negotiable. There is no, “Well he should get one more year.” No way.

He needs to put on his big boy pants on and make the tournament this year, if for no other reason than because the only two players who have been to the dance are in their final year. X needs players who have been t the dance on the team when they get there so they can talk about the experience and help them advance.

No more excuses. This is the year for Steele. He has all of the players he needs. He’s had several years to learn how to be a good head coach. Now he just needs to get it done. Period. Exclamation Point. Let’s Go X!

Remember “Dance or Die” (die meaning fired)?
Glad to see the board following up. And I’m in with now 3 season tickets. But I have little patience for Tomfoolery.
This is it. No more excuses. Git ‘er done. If not, git yer ass out the door.

[SC in DC]

Give him one more year--no way I want his two recruits to decommit!!

[drudy23]

Give him one more year--no way I want his two recruits to decommit!!

Coaching changes SUCK because you're basically falling 2 years behind with recruits and learning a new style/direction/culture.

But it will be necessary if we don't make the tourney. Just make the damn tourney. Longest drought since like 1981.

[IM4X]

Give him one more year--no way I want his two recruits to decommit!!

No one does, but we can’t just keep worrying about losing future recruits and ignore the fact the team is not playing up to the standard. At some point we need the coach to “Get it done” with the recruits he has.

The expectations have to be for this team to make the tournament this season. If he can do that and he should be able (he’s had several years to recruit and coach those recruits), then those newly landed recruits can help take X further in the next tournament.

[D-West & PO-Z]

No one does, but we can’t just keep worrying about losing future recruits and ignore the fact the team is not playing up to the standard. At some point we need the coach to “Get it done” with the recruits he has.

The expectations have to be for this team to make the tournament this season. If he can do that and he should be able (he’s had several years to recruit and coach those recruits), then those newly landed recruits can help take X further in the next tournament.

I got the sense he was being sarcastic, but maybe I misread it.

[xukeith]

We talking bout practice, man? Practice? We talkin bout practice? Not a game, practice? Practice?

Tell that to UNC fans or Dean Smith