Coach K and Brad Stevens announce stepping down within and hour of each other

[JTG]

Stevens taking over Ainge's spot as GM, Coach K retiring. Coach K staying one more year. Stevens is done now.

[GoMuskies]

Jon Scheyer is supposedly the leading candidate to replace Coach K. Jon Scheyer?!?

[XUGRAD80]

Stevens or Quinn Snyder is what I just heard speculated on the radio……but really, who knows? Coach K may want one of his assistants to get the job, or maybe an X-Duke players who’s a HC at a lower level school right now. I really couldn’t give a $h*t who goes to Duke, I’ll still root against them almost every chance I get.

[Xville]

Stevens or Quinn Snyder is what I just heard speculated on the radio……but really, who knows? Coach K may want one of his assistants to get the job, or maybe an X-Duke players who’s a HC at a lower level school right now. I really couldn’t give a $h*t who goes to Duke, I’ll still root against them almost every chance I get.

Can’t imagine someone in the nba making the money they make would want to go back to college willingly to recruit etc even at a place like duke. Yuck.

[drudy23]

It sounds like they've already made the decision on Scheyer. He in coach-in-waiting.

[GoMuskies]

It sounds like they've already made the decision on Scheyer. He in coach-in-waiting.

Jon Scheyer

[nuts4xu]

Travis Steele ---> Celtics

[GIMMFD]

It sounds like they've already made the decision on Scheyer. He in coach-in-waiting.

Don't envy the guy, big shoes to fill, college basketball is gonna be weird in a couple years, no Roy Williams, no Coach K, Huggins is nearing the end of his career, Boeheim... gonna be interesting to see how much it changes. Also very strange that Brad Stevens is now a GM no? Does he have any experience in running a team? Maybe there's something behind the scenes I'm missing here, but interesting day.

[MHettel]

Don't envy the guy, big shoes to fill, college basketball is gonna be weird in a couple years, no Roy Williams, no Coach K, Huggins is nearing the end of his career, Boeheim... gonna be interesting to see how much it changes. Also very strange that Brad Stevens is now a GM no? Does he have any experience in running a team? Maybe there's something behind the scenes I'm missing here, but interesting day.

one of these things is not like the others....

[drudy23]

Don't envy the guy, big shoes to fill, college basketball is gonna be weird in a couple years, no Roy Williams, no Coach K, Huggins is nearing the end of his career, Boeheim... gonna be interesting to see how much it changes. Also very strange that Brad Stevens is now a GM no? Does he have any experience in running a team? Maybe there's something behind the scenes I'm missing here, but interesting day.

What's scary, is that after this year, Huggins is going to pass Roy Williams, Bob Knight, and Jim Calhoun for 3rd most wins of all time.

He has literally won big time everywhere he's ever been.

[JTG]

What's scary, is that after this year, Huggins is going to pass Roy Williams, Bob Knight, and Jim Calhoun for 3rd most wins of all time.

He has literally won big time everywhere he's ever been.

At 3 schools which totally looked the other way while he was there.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Not questioning Stevens here, but the guy seems to have failed up. Rivers got them two rings and got fired. Stevens just lost in the 1st round and moved into the front office. Seems like an odd move to me.

[xavierj]

At 3 schools which totally looked the other way while he was there.

Like how? He has done more with less than a lot of coaches. Guy had his issues but he wasn’t cheating. If he was he would be reeling in a lot higher level of recruit. He wins with 2, 3 and 4 star guys, not all 5 stars like Duke and KY always get.

[JTG]

Not questioning Stevens here, but the guy seems to have failed up. Rivers got them two rings and got fired. Stevens just lost in the 1st round and moved into the front office. Seems like an odd move to me.
Steven's is extremely bright. He quit s job at Eli Lilly where he was a rising star to go into coaching. As a GM he'll make less money but have fewer headaches. He'll probably fleece other GMs around the league, and make smart draft picks.

[XU 87]

Like how? He has done more with less than a lot of coaches. Guy had his issues but he wasn’t cheating. If he was he would be reeling in a lot higher level of recruit. He wins with 2, 3 and 4 star guys, not all 5 stars like Duke and KY always get.

UC went on probation during his tenure there. And he brought in some 5 star talent at UC.

[xu82]

Jon Scheyer

Has he learned to whine like the Master? Will the refs look to him before deciding what call to make? The bar is high!

[GIMMFD]

one of these things is not like the others....

Lol yeah, no national championship for Huggins, I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that he's won a lot of games and is someone to associate with that group of older coaches in my opinion. I'd love to see him win one at WVU for what it would mean for the state, but I know that sentiment isn't popular here for obvious reasons haha.

[drudy23]

I loved to hate Huggins. It was so easy with his outbursts on the sidelines. His was the main character on some ultra-hated UC teams.

But I've grown to respect him as a coach over the years. He's just a solid coach. I don't think I could ever feel that way about Cronin, even if he wins 3 titles.

[X-man]

At about the 1:47 mark, there is a picture of Scheyer in my favorite hate Duke video.
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYOgC2Qbqh4.

[XUGRAD80]

I loved to hate Huggins. It was so easy with his outbursts on the sidelines. His was the main character on some ultra-hated UC teams.

But I've grown to respect him as a coach over the years. He's just a solid coach. I don't think I could ever feel that way about Cronin, even if he wins 3 titles.

This^

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Steven's is extremely bright. He quit s job at Eli Lilly where he was a rising star to go into coaching. As a GM he'll make less money but have fewer headaches. He'll probably fleece other GMs around the league, and make smart draft picks.

No doubt he is a smart guy, but I just don't see the success. Rivers had two titles he coached to Boston. One bad year later and he was fired. Stevens never made the finals, had good to great talent like Rivers, had a bad year and got promoted.

[JTG]

No doubt he is a smart guy, but I just don't see the success. Rivers had two titles he coached to Boston. One bad year later and he was fired. Stevens never made the finals, had good to great talent like Rivers, had a bad year and got promoted.

Some people might take this the wrong way, but It's Boston, Stevens is white.

[GoMuskies]

Does anyone really consider that a promotion? It's essentially getting fired upwards.

[SM#24]

Rivers won one title; and who are the Hall of Famers that Stevens coached ?

[SM#24]

Also, Rivers wasn't fired, he was traded to the Clippers after 2013 season in what was a mutual decision since the Celtics were tearing down the team. He won his title in 2008 and was traded 5 years later.

[paulxu]

Scheyer will be like Steele. First time as a head coach. Will Duke be patient?

[Xavier]

No doubt he is a smart guy, but I just don't see the success. Rivers had two titles he coached to Boston. One bad year later and he was fired. Stevens never made the finals, had good to great talent like Rivers, had a bad year and got promoted.

I think Rivers should have done more- his team was much more talented IMO. Didn't he have the original big 3? Regardless, Boston (and the rest of the East) Had a LBJ problem.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Stevens has had some form of Irving/Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Walker. He has had a lot of talent on his rosters and arguable deeper. Rivers had Garnett/Pierce/Rondo/Allen.

I agree the comment above, Boston and white.

[SM#24]

Stevens has had some form of Irving/Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Walker. He has had a lot of talent on his rosters and arguable deeper. Rivers had Garnett/Pierce/Rondo/Allen.

I agree the comment above, Boston and white.

Rivers has 3 HOF players pretty much in their prime. I see the narrative you're going after, it doesn't apply here.

[JEHARDI]

This^

In regard to Huggins: Agree, have a buddy who is friends with him and have had beers with him a couple times. Can see why kids like playing for him and could see why Prosser liked him. Super friendly, funny, no bs/pretense.

[Olsingledigit]

In regard to Huggins: Agree, have a buddy who is friends with him and have had beers with him a couple times. Can see why kids like playing for him and could see why Prosser liked him. Super friendly, funny, no bs/pretense.

I believe we are the only school with five or more games with a winning record against Huggins.

[GoMuskies]

I believe we are the only school with five or more games with a winning record against Huggins.

Surely Kansas does, too. Even if he's .500 at WV against them, he lost twice at K-State to them. They didn't break their 20+ game losing streak to KU until the Beasley team that we murdered the year after Huggs left.

[Drew]

Coach K was making 40k a year when he got hired to coach Duke in 1980. He will retire earning a bit under 10 million a year. Players still make nothing.

[GoMuskies]

And here I thought college debt was supposedly a big thing that crippled young people. Huh.

[MHettel]

Coach K was making 40k a year when he got hired to coach Duke in 1980. He will retire earning a bit under 10 million a year. Players still make nothing.

People playing an amateur sport don’t get paid? What the hell! I better check the definition of amateur!

All they get is free college and a bunch of perks? And could be legends at their school? And could get jobs and other opportunities later that were related to their college accomplishments?

Total BS. They are like serfs

[SM#24]

Coach K was making 40k a year when he got hired to coach Duke in 1980. He will retire earning a bit under 10 million a year. Players still make nothing.

Kyrie is making how much this year ?

[SM#24]

Coach K was making 40k a year when he got hired to coach Duke in 1980. He will retire earning a bit under 10 million a year. Players still make nothing.

Actually what would be interesting to see would be what is the avg. salary of the Duke men's basketball coaching staff the past 30 years vs. the avg. salaries each year of all the players that played for Duke in those 25 years in whatever profession they are in.

[GIMMFD]

Surely Kansas does, too. Even if he's .500 at WV against them, he lost twice at K-State to them. They didn't break their 20+ game losing streak to KU until the Beasley team that we murdered the year after Huggs left.

Correct, Kansas has a winning record against Huggins.. at both K-State and WVU, though WVU usually splits in the regular season, Kansas always beats em in the conference tournament. Though, Huggins gets a $250,000 bonus every time he beats Kansas, and donates it to charity, and he's gotten over $1.5mil I'd say

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I met Huggins in a California airport the year he was at KSU. I strolled up gave him some fake X vs. UC smack talk and he ate it up. We chatted about the rivalry, shook hands, and went on to our separate gates. The guy was pretty cool especially it not being too far from his unceremonious departure.

That same trip upon returning JD Hayworth my Rep was on my flight. He walked up next to me waiting for our luggage. I told him he was my Rep in Congress, he then asks if I voted for him. I laughed and said no, I wasn't being rude at all merely honest. He grabs his bag looks me square in the face and tells me "better luck next time". That guy was a massive prick. You can poke and jest and keep things fun, the next election he lost and never got his seat back.

[noteggs]

I met Huggins in a California airport the year he was at KSU. I strolled up gave him some fake X vs. UC smack talk and he ate it up. We chatted about the rivalry, shook hands, and went on to our separate gates. The guy was pretty cool especially it not being too far from his unceremonious departure.

That same trip upon returning JD Hayworth my Rep was on my flight. He walked up next to me waiting for our luggage. I told him he was my Rep in Congress, he then asks if I voted for him. I laughed and said no, I wasn't being rude at all merely honest. He grabs his bag looks me square in the face and tells me "better luck next time". That guy was a massive prick. You can poke and jest and keep things fun, the next election he lost and never got his seat back.

Just tells you coaches are better politicians. Some times...

[Drew]

People playing an amateur sport don’t get paid? What the hell! I better check the definition of amateur!

All they get is free college and a bunch of perks? And could be legends at their school? And could get jobs and other opportunities later that were related to their college accomplishments?

Total BS. They are like serfs

Still trying to understand what makes this sport amateur when the coaches are making as much as their NBA counterparts.

[Drew]

Actually what would be interesting to see would be what is the avg. salary of the Duke men's basketball coaching staff the past 30 years vs. the avg. salaries each year of all the players that played for Duke in those 25 years in whatever profession they are in.

Definitely would be interesting but Duke is a bit of an outlier. If you were to take all power 5 basketball and football players I'd bet you would find their average earnings to be pretty low. Especially relative to the coaches.

[XUGRAD80]

Definitely would be interesting but Duke is a bit of an outlier. If you were to take all power 5 basketball and football players I'd bet you would find their average earnings to be pretty low. Especially relative to the coaches.

I wonder what the alumni average salary is compared to the professors and administration of the school? Not that I wonder about it much, because it really doesn’t mean anything does it? Let’s consider the idea that ALL of those people…..the coaches, the professors, the administration members are ALL college graduates and have to be included in that alumni total too. All it would prove is that becoming a coach, a professor, or a college administrator pays better than some jobs, and doesn’t pay as well as some other jobs. And then, how do you break it down? Total compensation per year or hourly compensation? Teaching 10-20 hours per week, even with the prep time involved in that, doesn’t compare to the hours a coaching staff puts in. So while they might make a good salary, when you divide it by the number of hours worked, it doesn’t look so hot then. Sure, the HEAD coach of the BB or Football team might make millions per year, but the dozens of assistant coaches sure aren’t making a tenth of that…..and they are almost all (99%?) former players too. Steele was an ASSISTANT coach for what? 15 YEARS, I think, before becoming a head coach. How many people are willing to put in 15 years of 60-70-80 hour weeks (including nights, weekends, and holidays) just with the HOPE that one day they might become a head coach at a major university and get that million dollar prize? I don’t begrudge the coaching staffs one cent of their money. In the end, coaching is a damn tough way to make a living. It sure ain’t all fun and games and Saturday night lights. Nobody in their right mind goes into coaching for the money.

Edi….I just did a Google search on average assistant NCAA BB coaching salary. I saw a range of 28K-100K, so let’s say the medium is 60K. That works out, if we say the average week is 60 hours (and that’s a light week for many coaches), to a range of 16-20 dollars per hour. You could make that much working in an Amazon warehouse.

[Drew]

I wonder what the alumni average salary is compared to the professors and administration of the school? Not that I wonder about it much, because it really doesn’t mean anything does it? Let’s consider the idea that ALL of those people…..the coaches, the professors, the administration members are ALL college graduates and have to be included in that alumni total too. All it would prove is that becoming a coach, a professor, or a college administrator pays better than some jobs, and doesn’t pay as well as some other jobs. And then, how do you break it down? Total compensation per year or hourly compensation? Teaching 10-20 hours per week, even with the prep time involved in that, doesn’t compare to the hours a coaching staff puts in. So while they might make a good salary, when you divide it by the number of hours worked, it doesn’t look so hot then. Sure, the HEAD coach of the BB or Football team might make millions per year, but the dozens of assistant coaches sure aren’t making a tenth of that…..and they are almost all (99%?) former players too. Steele was an ASSISTANT coach for what? 15 YEARS, I think, before becoming a head coach. How many people are willing to put in 15 years of 60-70-80 hour weeks (including nights, weekends, and holidays) just with the HOPE that one day they might become a head coach at a major university and get that million dollar prize? I don’t begrudge the coaching staffs one cent of their money. In the end, coaching is a damn tough way to make a living. It sure ain’t all fun and games and Saturday night lights. Nobody in their right mind goes into coaching for the money.

Edi….I just did a Google search on average assistant NCAA BB coaching salary. I saw a range of 28K-100K, so let’s say the medium is 60K. That works out, if we say the average week is 60 hours (and that’s a light week for many coaches), to a range of 16-20 dollars per hour. You could make that much working in an Amazon warehouse.

Few things wrong here.

1. Stats should be based on P5 numbers. The rest of college athletics may at least resemble a fair value proposition, but power 5 revenue sports arent even close. This includes Xavier basketball.

2. Can we stop glorifying these coaches so much? They coach a game. There are multiple months where they aren't allowed to coach or recruit. And they are paid handsomely. Meanwhile student athletes make nothing and are pulling a full course load.

3. You can find all kind of weird technicalities to justify the situation but they don't pass the eye test. The players work incredibly hard and are directly responsible for the success of college athletics. The only justifications for keeping them from the revenues is a resistance to change and jealousy. Competitive balance isn't an argument. Recruiting tracks 1 to 1 with athletic budget and has for decades.

[XUGRAD80]

If you think that the coaches are NOT putting in incredibly long hours, even during “dead” periods, than you are sadly misinformed. If you think that all the coaches in Power 5 conferences are pulling down incredibly high salaries, then you are even more misinformed. Finally if you think that the average college graduate that played intercollegiate athletics at a Power 5 school (including X) as a scholarship athlete, isn’t better off than the average college student, you are really misinformed. Coming out of college with no student debt is rare today and puts them way ahead of the average student. Even if they started at a much lower position in business (which is NOT the norm, it’s the other way around usually), the lack of student debt is a HUGE benefit.

As I’ve tried to teach the young people coming into the business world….it’s NOT all about how much you MAKE, it’s all about how much you get to KEEP. When 1/4-1/2 of you pay is going to pay off student debt you are that much behind someone that has none, even before you start.

Are the coaches worth the money they get paid? That’s a whole other discussion. But I’ll also ask these questions…..if these same athletes were out playing intermural or rec league ball, how many people would pay to watch them? How many of the players that do end up playing pro would have made it there if it wasn’t for some very good coaching? Remember, only 1% of all college athletes every make it to the top levels of pro ball. The other 99% will never play at a higher level than college, yet the lessons they learn while participating will stick with throughout their lives. I’m not glorifying all coaches, some are really not nice people. But I’m still thankful for what I learned from almost all of them. I feel that the experiences I got from participating can’t be measured in dollars and cents. AND, the fact that I did participate certainly opened doors for me that otherwise would have been closed.

[Drew]

If you think that the coaches are NOT putting in incredibly long hours, even during “dead” periods, than you are sadly misinformed.
1. Everyone works hard. Tell me the easy career path in this country.



But I’ll also ask these questions…..if these same athletes were out playing intermural or rec league ball, how many people would pay to watch them?
2. Technically the NCAA argues it is a rec league. That is the whole point of the hypocrisy.



Remember, only 1% of all college athletes every make it to the top levels of pro ball.
3. And I would argue the other 99% are missing out on possibly their best chance to capitalize on their gifts because of the NCAA scam. Again, I am only talking about revenue sports. Swim and track aren't part of this discussion.

Edit:

yet the lessons they learn while participating will stick with throughout their lives
4. I totally agree. I find college athletics (and athletics in general) to be an overwhelmingly positive force in people's lives. I just think the ability to also empower everyone involved with the fruits of their labor is also a positive. Everyone thinks fondly of their struggle but an athlete's struggle is almost inverse. Their prime earning potential is when they are young. Now you may argue they shouldn't count on athletics for financial success. But I never see that argument being applied to everyone else involved in college athletics. And lets not kid ourselves, college athletics is a huge business that drives the livelihoods of I would argue over 100,000 people when you consider everyone involved (tv, arenas, reports, merch, etc.)

[XUGRAD80]

Definitely would be interesting but Duke is a bit of an outlier. If you were to take all power 5 basketball and football players I'd bet you would find their average earnings to be pretty low………Especially relative to the coaches………..

Drew….this is the statement I have a problem with……comparing the salaries of the players (after their college careers) to the salaries of the coaches they have.

It makes it sound like

A). Most of these players end up in low paying jobs (not true)
B). All the coaches are making exorbitant salaries (also not true, especially for 90% of the assistant coaches)

First off….for every head coach making a few million per year, there are probably 4-5 pro players making the same or more
Secondly….the vast majority of players are coming out of college, debt free, and with a college degree. I’d guess that most use that degree to get a pretty decent job and are making a pretty decent salary. In the end, 99% of them are in this category and over a lifetime will earn a few million dollars in salary.

By the way…..you might want to check out how much a professional track athlete in Europe can make. It’s not professional here in the states, but around the world it is. And/or while you’re at it….consider how much a European soccer player, or a top world golfer can make playing in one of the various leagues or tours around the world. I understand that here in the states most people only follow the big 4 sports, but that’s certainly not the case everywhere. The Pay for play discussion effects ALL of the sports…both men and women’s too….and if you only make decisions based on the Men’s football and basketball situations at power 5 schools, you are shortchanging thousands of other college athletes concerns. Those athlete's make up less than 1% of all the college athletes.

[xucub]

[Quote] As I’ve tried to teach the young people coming into the business world….it’s NOT all about how much you MAKE, it’s all about how much you get to KEEP. When 1/4-1/2 of you pay is going to pay off student debt you are that much behind someone that has none, even before you start. [Quote]

I have a bit of a different take on this....I tell people it is not what you make, but what you spend. There are rich people who are poor and their are poor people who are rich. Said differently, there are people who have great incomes but live paycheck to paycheck because they spend like drunken sailors. There are people with moderate incomes who spend wisely and retire early with millions. Spending recklessly to have every new gadget and gizmo that comes out, in the end, does not make you happy or make you a success.

As Paul wrote, "I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances."

[xukeith]

Drew….this is the statement I have a problem with……comparing the salaries of the players (after their college careers) to the salaries of the coaches they have.

It makes it sound like

A). Most of these players end up in low paying jobs (not true)
B). All the coaches are making exorbitant salaries (also not true, especially for 90% of the assistant coaches)

First off….for every head coach making a few million per year, there are probably 4-5 pro players making the same or more
Secondly….the vast majority of players are coming out of college, debt free, and with a college degree. I’d guess that most use that degree to get a pretty decent job and are making a pretty decent salary. In the end, 99% of them are in this category and over a lifetime will earn a few million dollars in salary.

By the way…..you might want to check out how much a professional track athlete in Europe can make. It’s not professional here in the states, but around the world it is. And/or while you’re at it….consider how much a European soccer player, or a top world golfer can make playing in one of the various leagues or tours around the world. I understand that here in the states most people only follow the big 4 sports, but that’s certainly not the case everywhere. The Pay for play discussion effects ALL of the sports…both men and women’s too….and if you only make decisions based on the Men’s football and basketball situations at power 5 schools, you are shortchanging thousands of other college athletes concerns. Those athlete's make up less than 1% of all the college athletes.

If only athletes get paid based on revenue sports, wont there be a range of different pay amounts to better programs? UConn, Stanford, ND women basketball player should be paid higher than Wright State, Garner Webb, etc. women?

What about equal pay? If you are a top elite high school recruit, will you go where the frosh get paid less than seniors? Or will you go where all players are paid the same?

Where will the money come from? Will it be from a percentage of CBS/FOX/ESPN TV money? Or will each university set aside a % for their athletes?

[Drew]

If only athletes get paid based on revenue sports, wont there be a range of different pay amounts to better programs? UConn, Stanford, ND women basketball player should be paid higher than Wright State, Garner Webb, etc. women?

What about equal pay? If you are a top elite high school recruit, will you go where the frosh get paid less than seniors? Or will you go where all players are paid the same?

Where will the money come from? Will it be from a percentage of CBS/FOX/ESPN TV money? Or will each university set aside a % for their athletes?

You can take all these questions and apply them to the coaching staff. Who decides that the basketball coach should make more than the track etc.?

Personally, I would like to see a trust set up with 50k per year set to be released to the student when they graduate or transfer. But heres the kicker, it really shouldn't be up to me or the presidents union (NCAA). The players need to organize and form a P5 revenue union because ain't nobody speaking for them.

[Drew]

Drew….this is the statement I have a problem with……comparing the salaries of the players (after their college careers) to the salaries of the coaches they have.

It makes it sound like

A). Most of these players end up in low paying jobs (not true)
B). All the coaches are making exorbitant salaries (also not true, especially for 90% of the assistant coaches)

First off….for every head coach making a few million per year, there are probably 4-5 pro players making the same or more
Secondly….the vast majority of players are coming out of college, debt free, and with a college degree. I’d guess that most use that degree to get a pretty decent job and are making a pretty decent salary. In the end, 99% of them are in this category and over a lifetime will earn a few million dollars in salary.

By the way…..you might want to check out how much a professional track athlete in Europe can make. It’s not professional here in the states, but around the world it is. And/or while you’re at it….consider how much a European soccer player, or a top world golfer can make playing in one of the various leagues or tours around the world. I understand that here in the states most people only follow the big 4 sports, but that’s certainly not the case everywhere. The Pay for play discussion effects ALL of the sports…both men and women’s too….and if you only make decisions based on the Men’s football and basketball situations at power 5 schools, you are shortchanging thousands of other college athletes concerns. Those athlete's make up less than 1% of all the college athletes.

I am all for empowering the athletes of all sports, as opposed to yourself.

[Drew]

Edit: Duplicate

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I am all for empowering the athletes of all sports, as opposed to yourself.

Just when the board had a reasonably rational discussion going on, it just has to get snarky doesn't it?

[Drew]

Just when the board had a reasonably rational discussion going on, it just has to get snarky doesn't it?

Mea culpa. What I said was immature.

To reword it. I am in favor of all NCAA athletes having their arbitrary income restrictions removed. But I am most concerned about those who are generating a large majority of the revenue.

[XUGRAD80]

I am all for empowering the athletes of all sports, as opposed to yourself.

I’ve nothing against players being empowered…to a point. However, it seems that you think they are being taken advantage of. I don’t see that.

[xu82]

I’ve nothing against players being empowered…to a point. However, it seems that you think they are being taken advantage of. I don’t see that.

I’m with you there. I’m all for expanded freedom to transfer, etc. The few money making sports/programs help fund the other sports, and help those kids get college educations. The swimmers, golfers and tennis players benefit from the few kids playing in the few programs at the few schools that run in the black.

I don’t want to have to shut down those other programs. So many kids would be hurt, while very few would benefit. Some of those hurt would not even play, or even watch, sports. The cost of a college education is out of control! (See the politics thread.) Where is that money going to come from?

All those kids get a shot at an education. IF you are good enough you can make a living playing your sport. If you don’t like the deal, don’t take the deal and go out on your own. Chances are good they will wish they had their education and the degree.

I would care less about college sports if they were paid more than the kid working in the cafeteria. I would also be VERY concerned about unintended coansequences.

[Drew]

I’ve nothing against players being empowered…to a point. However, it seems that you think they are being taken advantage of. I don’t see that.

Then we will just have to agree to disagree. They are the primary labor of a business that generates hundreds of millions annually. And they are not paid nor are they allowed to be paid. That is exploitation to me.

[xu82]

Then we will just have to agree to disagree. They are the primary labor of a business that generates hundreds of millions annually. And they are not paid nor are they allowed to be paid. That is exploitation to me.

Are you referring to my roommate the swimmer as a freshman? Or possibly my roommate on the golf team as a sophomore? Please be very specific as to who “they” are.

If they don’t like the deal, they should turn it down.


.

[Drew]

Are you referring to my roommate the swimmer as a freshman? Or possibly my roommate on the golf team as a sophomore? Please be very specific as to who “they” are.

Your roommates are part of "they". I don't understand the confusion.

[xu82]

Your roommates are part of "they". I don't understand the confusion.

They generated ZERO income. In fact, they cost the school money. My sophomore roommate was my best man, as I was his. We texted about an hour ago, and he thinks you are an absolute idiot on this topic.

Who is going to pay for that? I don’t understand YOUR confusion. They gave their time and talents, maybe got a little financial assistance, had a little fun, made some friends and they were happy with their arrangements. Who are you to ask for more than the deal people were happy with?


.

[Drew]

They generated ZERO income. In fact, they cost the school money. My sophomore roommate was my best man, as I was his. We texted about an hour ago, and he thinks you are an absolute idiot on this topic.

Who is going to pay for that? I don’t understand YOUR confusion. They gave their time and talents, maybe got a little financial assistance, had a little fun, made some friends and they were happy with their arrangements. Who are you to ask for more than the deal people were happy with?

College athletics have been around as long as colleges have. Giving scholarships for athletics probably equally so. Your roommates earned their scholarships due to their excellence in their respective sport. I presume they played hard for the university while they wore the X. If someone were willing to give them money in addition to the scholarship they received, be it the university or otherwise, I would argue for them to do so. You are getting personal when it sounds like you and your friends have been good alumni and I think that is awesome. I really don't understand the vitriol surrounding athletes being compensated. Maybe its because many of us weren't roommates with the basketball players. If we were to see close hand someone working as hard as they do and struggling financially while money is flowing in for their sport there might be a bit more outrage regarding the lengths the NCAA will go to keep the money to themselves. This will be my last post on the topic because you have gotten personal and resorted to insults. So I leave with this, when did someone getting paid become a negative to either themselves or our collective? And if you adequately explain it to me, I will devote equal energy to ensuring the coaches and president's are properly warned of the dangers money can have.

[xu82]

College athletics have been around as long as colleges have. Giving scholarships for athletics probably equally so. Your roommates earned their scholarships due to their excellence in their respective sport. I presume they played hard for the university while they wore the X. If someone were willing to give them money in addition to the scholarship they received, be it the university or otherwise, I would argue for them to do so. You are getting personal when it sounds like you and your friends have been good alumni and I think that is awesome. I really don't understand the vitriol surrounding athletes being compensated. Maybe its because many of us weren't roommates with the basketball players. If we were to see close hand someone working as hard as they do and struggling financially while money is flowing in for their sport there might be a bit more outrage regarding the lengths the NCAA will go to keep the money to themselves. This will be my last post on the topic because you have gotten personal and resorted to insults. So I leave with this, when did someone getting paid become a negative to either themselves or our collective? And if you adequately explain it to me, I will devote equal energy to ensuring the coaches and president's are properly warned of the dangers money can have.

As I said earlier, they can be paid like the kids working in the cafeteria, not like celebrity athletes. They deserve some money (preferably based upon need) to buy a pizza or to go on a date, but they don’t need a Maserati. Just my opinion. I prefer fiscal responsibility, and college is already too expensive. That money has to come from somewhere.


.

[Drew]

As I said earlier, they can be paid like the kids working in the cafeteria, not like celebrity athletes. They deserve some money (preferably based upon need) to buy a pizza or to go on a date, but they don’t need a Maserati. Just my opinion. I prefer fiscal responsibility, and college is already too expensive. That money has to come from somewhere. .

(have to post again, this comment is too ridiculous not too respond)

Please, next time you are at a game, try to give a player a coupon for a free pizza, I am sure he will be wowed by your generosity. And then the NCAA will take his scholarship lol.

Fiscal responsibility huh? Xavier is private so we don't see their books but here are the salaries of our local state school (OSU) https://apps.hr.osu.edu/Salaries/Home/

A quick review shows a few things.
- It pays to be in medicine. There are hundreds of physicians making 6 figures and aren't even working full time. (Do no harm, but take every cent you can get)
- Athletics budget is saintly compared to medicine. But even then, my proposed $50k a year * 10 scholarship athletes (roughly) is easily affordable given the salaries (despite the fact that it shouldn't be up to me, the free market works when labor can use it)
- OSU is enormous. 42,000 employees listed here.

If you look at the numbers, at least for OSU. The bulk of their costs comes from just the pure number of employees they have. I would suggest bloat is more likely for high cost than athletics.

Oddly enough, if you are looking for Maseratis, I would suggest the local university hospital. Patients come in, $$$ come out.

[xu82]

My buddy from the golf team got nothing from XU other than a good time and meeting some friends. His daughter played D1 basketball for a relatively small school, and she got “a coupon” for a four year college education. They were THRILLED! That is a six figure payday at even the cheaper schools. THAT has value. In her case it saved what would today be $156,000 in AFTER TAX earnings. That is about a QUARTER of a MILLION DOLLARS in gross earnings. I think she was well compensated for her efforts.

It’s nice that you want to throw out a big budget school like OSU. They have huge enrollments and TV contracts, just like Alabama, Clemson and the big boys. How does the little school do it? Where, exactly, does the money come from? How much money does a water polo player at Slippery Rock get? How about a tennis player at St Peter’s College? Not everybody is a five star one-and-done basketball player at Kentucky. Do we close some smaller sports due to the expense, thereby removing the opportunity for a free education for some kid who was very happy with a free education he couldn’t otherwise afford?

To be clear, I’m not saying they won’t eventually be paid in some fashion (many are now, under the table), but I don’t like it coming out of the college’s budget. I would object less to name/likeness arrangements, like shoe deals. Even there the waters get murky. If I buy a Trevor Lawrence jersey, that’s also a Clemson jersey. How is that split?

Arguing bloat and huge payrolls is absolutely valid. What I’m suggesting is less of that, not “what the hell, it’s already a mess so let’s pile on.” College expense is totally out of control and needs to be reigned in, not run up. THAT is my personal opinion. I think some others might agree, just as you seem to disagree. Certainly your right to have any opinion you like.

Remember, these kids still have the option to not take the deal. Nobody is forcing them.

P.S. - yes, hospitals generally make money. They are businesses. That’s how that works. What’s your point? They also do important research, save lives, train health care workers, etc. How much did the Xavier University Hospital rake in last year?

[Drew]

My buddy from the golf team got nothing from XU other than a good time and meeting some friends. His daughter played D1 basketball for a relatively small school, and she got “a coupon” for a four year college education. They were THRILLED! That is a six figure payday at even the cheaper schools. THAT has value. In her case it saved what would today be $156,000 in AFTER TAX earnings. That is about a QUARTER of a MILLION DOLLARS in gross earnings. I think she was well compensated for her efforts.

It’s nice that you want to throw out a big budget school like OSU. They have huge enrollments and TV contracts, just like Alabama, Clemson and the big boys. How does the little school do it? Where, exactly, does the money come from? How much money does a water polo player at Slippery Rock get? How about a tennis player at St Peter’s College? Not everybody is a five star one-and-done basketball player at Kentucky. Do we close some smaller sports due to the expense, thereby removing the opportunity for a free education for some kid who was very happy with a free education he couldn’t otherwise afford?

To be clear, I’m not saying they won’t eventually be paid in some fashion (many are now, under the table), but I don’t like it coming out of the college’s budget. I would object less to name/likeness arrangements, like shoe deals. Even there the waters get murky. If I buy a Trevor Lawrence jersey, that’s also a Clemson jersey. How is that split?

Arguing bloat and huge payrolls is absolutely valid. What I’m suggesting is less of that, not “what the hell, it’s already a mess so let’s pile on.” College expense is totally out of control and needs to be reigned in, not run up. THAT is my personal opinion. I think some others might agree, just as you seem to disagree. Certainly your right to have any opinion you like.

Remember, these kids still have the option to not take the deal. Nobody is forcing them.

P.S. - yes, hospitals generally make money. They are businesses. That’s how that works. What’s your point? They also do important research, save lives, train health care workers, etc. How much did the Xavier University Hospital rake in last year?

Your point regarding your personal friends getting a great deal aren't evidence of a functioning system. It sounds like both your friends had their scholarships subsidized by other athletes being deprived of their potential earnings.

Your friend wanting to play golf or swim for a scholarship should be paid by the university as a cost, not subsidized by a multimillion dollar revenue center.

[Drew]

To say it simpler, why should we one sport pay for another? We wouldn't ask the medical school for a check to pay for it, why do it within sports? If I run a successful sport that people pay to watch, I earned that.

[Drew]

And even if u did choose to subsidize losing sports that doesn't mean those costs shouldn't be shared by ALL members of the revenue center.

[Drew]

And your friend not even working for his golf one is just evidence of the problem lol

[GoMuskies]

I thiink the problem is more easily solved if those who think they will be generating a majority of the revenue and think that a college scholarship is not adequate compensation simply opt out of the NCAA system. Given that they are so valuable and will generate such significant revenue, there willl certainly be better paying alternatives for them. I wish them great luck.

[xu82]

Your point regarding your personal friends getting a great deal aren't evidence of a functioning system. It sounds like both your friends had their scholarships subsidized by other athletes being deprived of their potential earnings.

Your friend wanting to play golf or swim for a scholarship should be paid by the university as a cost, not subsidized by a multimillion dollar revenue center.

Not being snarky (honestly), but I’m not even sure what that means. To be clear, the swimmer was on scholarship while the golfer was a walk-on. You earlier said they were part of “they”, and should be paid. You refer to the multimillion dollar revenue center. Who is that, exactly. Is it the school? Athletic department? NCAA? TV networks? Please identify who the “revenue center” is.

Please present a quick overview of how this works in your mind. Does Xavier basketball pay for Xavier swimming? Does Alabama football pay for Slippery Rock? You said something about you make the money, you keep the money. You also talk about everybody (“they”) should get paid. I don’t see how you can have that both ways. Somebody has to pay, and I don’t want it to be the general student population or their parents passed along in terms of higher tuition and fees. Unlike our federal government, the schools can’t just print money to make you feel better.

My wife’s niece went to Bucknell and was showing us around campus at graduation. We passed by the stadium and I asked about it. Her answer was “I don’t know, it’s some sports thing”. I kid you not! Why should her tuition go up so some kid who was going to school there for free (while she is paying to be there!) can take her money, when she doesn’t care one iota about it?

You seem to be motivated by some sort of “fairness”, for lack of a better term. I get that, I really do. Please provide a thumbnail sketch of how this works in the real world. I just looked and there are about 460,000 NCAA student-athletes. How much do they get, maybe $10k? Is it split evenly? Where does the $4.6 BILLION dollars come from.

I can tell you THIS in the real world, about $250k of my friends gross lifetime earnings didn’t have to go towards his daughters education. That is a real word fact, and a LOT of money.

EDIT: And I never said it was a well functioning system, it’s just the one we have.

[xu82]

I thiink the problem is more easily solved if those who think they will be generating a majority of the revenue and think that a college scholarship is not adequate compensation simply opt out of the NCAA system. Given that they are so valuable and will generate such significant revenue, there willl certainly be better paying alternatives for them. I wish them great luck.

Yep, again nobody is forcing them into this deal. Take it or leave it. Your call. Good luck!

[XUBison]

I thiink the problem is more easily solved if those who think they will be generating a majority of the revenue and think that a college scholarship is not adequate compensation simply opt out of the NCAA system. Given that they are so valuable and will generate such significant revenue, there willl certainly be better paying alternatives for them. I wish them great luck.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum… If the backup center at UN Omaha is struggling financially because he’s not getting fairly compensated for his basketball contribution, I’ve got a similar solution for him.

[Drew]

Yep, again nobody is forcing them into this deal. Take it or leave it. Your call. Good luck!

Lol, you sound like a horrible person.


Edit:
Hey look another billion being added to College Football $$$$$$$$$$$$$
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2021/06/11/college-football-playoff-expansion-could-push-revenue-2-billion/7657072002/

[GoMuskies]

Yep, xu82, well known horrible person around these parts.

I sense a bit of projection....

[xu82]

Yep, xu82, well known horrible person around these parts.

I sense a bit of projection....

Thanks! I have a reputation to uphold! :-)

[xu82]

Meanwhile, at the other end of the spectrum… If the backup center at UN Omaha is struggling financially because he’s not getting fairly compensated for his basketball contribution, I’ve got a similar solution for him.

It would be helpful if you would define “fairly compensated”.

I think the free education is enormous compensation. Beyond that, I’ve always been willing to pay them (preferably need based) like the student cafeteria worker for a little spending money based on the hours they spend on their sport.

[XUBison]

It would be helpful if you would define “fairly compensated”.

I think the free education is enormous compensation. Beyond that, I’ve always been willing to pay them (preferably need based) like the student cafeteria worker for a little spending money based on the hours they spend on their sport.

Sorry, ”fairly compensated” = tongue in cheek. Anyway, I agree completely that a scholarship is enormous compensation. And doesn’t cost of attendance already provide spending money? Wasn’t that the point?

I guess what I don’t get more than anything is, which players are complaining here? I mean, I would’ve given just about anything to play college football or basketball on any level, but I wasn’t good enough. And to get a scholarship to do so at a power program? Wow, what a racket.

[MADXSTER]

It would be helpful if you would define “fairly compensated”.

I think the free education is enormous compensation. Beyond that, I’ve always been willing to pay them (preferably need based) like the student cafeteria worker for a little spending money based on the hours they spend on their sport.

They do get some form of monetary compensation. This may be outdated but, $400.00/month for full ride. If a player is on 50% scholarship then they receive 50% of the $400.00 which is $200.00/month. This is for all sports, men's and women's.

[xu82]

Now that this is mentioned, I do recall hearing that they got some kind of stipend to pay for basics. That makes perfect sense to me. I mean, the kids have to be able to buy toothpaste and pizza!

[Xavier]

I thiink the problem is more easily solved if those who think they will be generating a majority of the revenue and think that a college scholarship is not adequate compensation simply opt out of the NCAA system. Given that they are so valuable and will generate such significant revenue, there willl certainly be better paying alternatives for them. I wish them great luck.

I mean that’s a good point. If they don’t think scholarship and everything that comes with it is adequate compensation they have options to go elsewhere and get paid. It’s a little more difficult for football but I’ve seen some of these other leagues popping up might go after college kids.

Regardless, there are absolutely plenty of opportunities for basketball players to go get paid.

[xu82]

I mean that’s a good point. If they don’t think scholarship and everything that comes with it is adequate compensation they have options to go elsewhere and get paid. It’s a little more difficult for football but I’ve seen some of these other leagues popping up might go after college kids.

Regardless, there are absolutely plenty of opportunities for basketball players to go get paid.

Do you think Kentucky might pay better than the G-League? Just askin’…….. :-)

[XUGRAD80]

Wasn’t there a European player that signed a LOI for X a few years back, but decided to stay in Europe and play for pay in one-off there many professional leagues?

[SM#24]

Aleksandar Vezenkov - born in Cyprus (of Bulgarian parents), raised in Greece. 25-26 yo now. Plays for Barcelona and Bulgarian national team. Very good player. Committed to X for 2013-14 season I believe but stayed with his Greek club team and basically went pro.