Fire up the BUICK

[OTRMUSKIE]

Miller time is done at Zona! Rumor has it UC is going to hire him. Uggggh why don’t we have a coaching vacancy!

[Xavier]

Where are you seeing that? Or did you just make it up? (That UC is interested)

[atljar]

FML about the Cincy rumor, if true. Lets let them have Steele instead

[Blue Blooded-05]

No way Miller goes to UC, right?

Bro’s before ho’s

[Blue Blooded-05]

However, if Archie went to UC and Sean came to X... now THAT would be interesting

[paulxu]

The Miller bothers have struggled a little since leaving the A-10.

[drudy23]

Obviously UC has to be looking for a coach while all of this is going on - it wouldn't completely surprise me (but it would a little knowing how they ran out Huggs for his shenanigans). But different administration, so who knows.

They're probably kicking the tires - will they pull the trigger?

[xukeith]

Obviously UC has to be looking for a coach while all of this is going on - it wouldn't completely surprise me (but it would a little knowing how they ran out Huggs for his shenanigans). But different administration, so who knows.

They're probably kicking the tires - will they pull the trigger?

Miller is my all time favorite X coach.
His teams were tough and very team oriented. He was a great recruiter and a solid X and O guy.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

If I am Greg Christopher, I encourage Steele to hire Miller as an assistant like Martelli at Michigan. I have no idea if Miller would take it, but he could stay in coaching and be a lot less visible. If Steele still falters, you have Miller on the bench to be an interim and allow Christopher to fire Steele mid-season.

[Xavier]

If I am Greg Christopher, I encourage Steele to hire Miller as an assistant like Martelli at Michigan. I have no idea if Miller would take it, but he could stay in coaching and be a lot less visible. If Steele still falters, you have Miller on the bench to be an interim and allow Christopher to fire Steele mid-season.

Yeah I can't see why Steele wouldn't want that. I mean bring in a guy that half the fan base would want to coach instead of you- and will be a coach in waiting as soon as you don't perform. No added pressure there or anything.

[xudash]

Yeah I can't see why Steele wouldn't want that. I mean bring in a guy that half the fan base would want to coach instead of you- and will be a coach in waiting as soon as you don't perform. No added pressure there or anything.

How about the glass half full version: administration gives that combination 3 years. Travis learns from Sean. He gets air under his wings and takes off - he becomes the coach we want.

Sean’s “rep” settles down and he finds a HC position after 3/4 years.

Personally, I love the idea.

[IM4X]

However, if Archie went to UC and Sean came to X... now THAT would be interesting

On the surface it would appear like a fun idea that could lead to tremendous PR for the schools. Unfortunately, it would also position those schools in the public’s eye as lesser than the universities where those two brothers lost their jobs.

In essence, Sean would be giving back his Lexus at the end of its lease and then leasing his old Buick again. It would also mean that the people now running my amazing alma mater have little integrity. Sorry, we are not “Buick U.” We are the Xavier School for gifted youngsters... and when our X-men take off next season with the final destination being New Orleans (Final 4), Sean is not welcome aboard.

I am okay with Sean helping Travis with recruiting and with some Xs and Os if he wants... as long as he is willing to wear a shirt every day that reads “Only a loser would call X a Buick.”

[JTG]

I'd love Sean on the bench, but I can't see Steele agreeing to that idea. That would be like signing his own death warrant. If Miller were older it might work, but Sean has a good 15 years left to coach, at least.

[xudash]

I'd love Sean on the bench, but I can't see Steele agreeing to that idea. That would be like signing his own death warrant. If Miller were older it might work, but Sean has a good 15 years left to coach, at least.

Sean’s F-I-L isn’t on Xavier’s BOT. Travis has an ace in the hole IF he pulls it together. Maybe.

[xu82]

How about the glass half full version: administration gives that combination 3 years. Travis learns from Sean. He gets air under his wings and takes off - he becomes the coach we want.

Sean’s “rep” settles down and he finds a HC position after 3/4 years.

Personally, I love the idea.

That sounds like a FULL glass to me. I am not opposed to full glasses. :-)

[OTRMUSKIE]

Miller is basically holding a gun to Steeles head. You better win this year or else I’m the coach. Bring the man in!!!!

[boozehound]

Maybe we can get Sean Miller to head up here to New Jersey and wax my car after we hire him as an assistant to Travis Steele. I'm not sure which option is least likely.

Unless he has a show cause Sean can and will absolutely get a HC job, and potentially a surprisingly decent one. I would be very surprised if he wants to go back to being an assistant, unless (MAYBE) at a very high level program with an older HC.

[Xavier]

I see Woj reporting Miller is likely going to be an NBA assistant with at least one team already expressing interest.

[Lloyd Braun]

I see Woj reporting Miller is likely going to be an NBA assistant with at least one team already expressing interest.

Who is Miller’s agent aka “sources”? Not saying it isn’t legit, just the avenue agents take to drum up interest.

[XUBison]

I see Woj reporting Miller is likely going to be an NBA assistant with at least one team already expressing interest.

Steve Kerr/Golden State?

[smileyy]

Woj is pretty reliable.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I put if I was the AD, I agree that Miller would never take it and Steele would never want it. It could be win/win for both parties if Steele takes off, but it's a huge risk. On the other hand, Steele playing it safe could result in another missed tourney which will get him fired.

[XUBison]

Maybe Arizona will hire Steele so we can hire Miller.

[UCGRAD4X]

Man can't drive a Lexus, can't take care of it. Don't want him near my Buick.

[MHettel]

To be clear:

1) Fuck Miller. We weren't good enough for ya? How'd that work out.

2) ZERO chance he comes to XU as an assistant. Here is the narrative on that: Head Coach leaves a good situation for the promise of success in the proverbial "greener pasture." Ends up getting fired from the "big time" job and winds up back where he started in a lesser role. NOBODY WOULD DO THAT. NOBODY.


I see 2 scenarios.

1) Miller KNOWS he's busted as part of the NCAA Investigation, and he's gotta move to the NBA as an assistant to stay employed. From there, he can hope to be an NBA HC in the future.

2) Miller KNOWS that there isn't any evidence to get him on NCAA infractions, so he'll sit out until the air clears. Once "acquitted" he'll land pretty quickly in a High Major job. In the meantime, he can "recruit" year round and have his first freshman class all locked up by the time he's announced as HC somewhere.

what he WONT do is take a college assistant job.

[xeus]

Man can't drive a Lexus, can't take care of it. Don't want him near my Buick.

I never got past his stupid analogy suggesting that a Lexus > Buick.

[IM4X]

Man can't drive a Lexus, can't take care of it. Don't want him near my Buick.

Amen Brother!

[IM4X]

To be clear:

1) Fuck Miller. We weren't good enough for ya? How'd that work out.

2) ZERO chance he comes to XU as an assistant. Here is the narrative on that: Head Coach leaves a good situation for the promise of success in the proverbial "greener pasture." Ends up getting fired from the "big time" job and winds up back where he started in a lesser role. NOBODY WOULD DO THAT. NOBODY.


I see 2 scenarios.

1) Miller KNOWS he's busted as part of the NCAA Investigation, and he's gotta move to the NBA as an assistant to stay employed. From there, he can hope to be an NBA HC in the future.

2) Miller KNOWS that there isn't any evidence to get him on NCAA infractions, so he'll sit out until the air clears. Once "acquitted" he'll land pretty quickly in a High Major job. In the meantime, he can "recruit" year round and have his first freshman class all locked up by the time he's announced as HC somewhere.

what he WONT do is take a college assistant job.

This.

[IM4X]

I never got past his stupid analogy suggesting that a Lexus > Buick.

Yeah... It is a stupid analogy. We don’t want a coach back who leaves us and then can’t even come up with a decent analogy as to why his old job is supposedly inferior to his new one. As a matter of fact, maybe there’s a correlation between not being able to make up decent analogies and not getting to a final four. Miller? Mack? Hmm. On second thought - Scratch that... Gillen never got to a final four and he was one of the king when it came to analogies and similes and metaphors.

[xuphan]

Yeah... It is a stupid analogy. We don’t want a coach back who leaves us and then can’t even come up with a decent analogy as to why his old job is supposedly inferior to his new one. As a matter of fact, maybe there’s a correlation between not being able to make up decent analogies and not getting to a final four. Miller? Mack? Hmm. On second thought - Scratch that... Gillen never got to a final four and he was one of the king when it came to analogies and similes and metaphors.

If Miller is a Lexus, Mack is a Buick, What is Steele?

[XUBison]

I never got past his stupid analogy suggesting that a Lexus > Buick.

Some say you can’t fully appreciate the beauty of the Buick until it’s in the rear view mirror.

[XUBison]

If Miller is a Lexus, Mack is a Buick, What is Steele?

See the Yugo.

[D-West & PO-Z]

To me Miller was the one coach who struggled the most with his decision to leave.

Matta snuck out in the middle of the night without a second thought. Mack had one foot out the door his entire last season once Pitino was dismissed. Skip and Pete were leaving a different X program than today's.

Obviously this would never happen but if Miller wanted to come back to X today I would show Steele the door and hire Miller back, as long as his NCAA baggage was a non issue. I think Miller is the best coach in Xavier history.

[Lloyd Braun]

Yea I would welcome him back as well but probably not this year. Recruiting certainly took a hit for him in Arizona. A couple of things that have stuck with me since Miler left:
1) He always seemed to have a strong bond with Bobinski which made the program run so smoothly. I don’t think this can be understated that having everyone on the same page is critical. It’s a tough time to comment on current synchronicity coming off a weird year so I’ll leave it at that.
2) Miller was proud of his time at X and mentioned leaving X in a better spot than when he left. Which brings me to the legacy of prior coaches. Did each prior coach take the program to another level? I would listen to the argument that they did. A #1 seed during Mack’s tenure is tough to beat. Those are some big shoes to fill and I hope when Steele’s tenure is over we can say the same thing, that each previous coach brought the program to another level. That’s really tough to see happening right now, fair or unfair.

[XUGRAD80]

IF Arizona, and Miller, are found to be completely innocent of the MAJOR recruiting violations that the program, and he, are accused of, another college program might take a chance on him right now. But it appears that he is going to go the pro ranks for a few years and let things cold down before possibly trying to get back into college coaching. That seems to be the preferred path by many coaches who run afoul of the NCAA. I do think he was the top coach that X has had and would have loved it if he had stayed, BUT he made it perfectly clear that he didn’t think that X could progress beyond where he had the program. From his actions, he also made it clear that he wasn’t satisfied with that level of achievement. Even if he was let off with only minor rules violations at this point, I would still be worried about what he might do in the future. I do not want X to adopt a “win at all cost” mentality and I’m afraid that under him that’s what might well happen. So, IF we could pick up exactly where we left off when he was the X coach, I’d say sure, let him come back. But I don’t think that is possible anymore. He has shown that being “very good” is not enough for him and that he is willing to do whatever it takes to become a championship coach, including leaving for what he sees as a better opportunity and also cheating if need be. I could never trust him again.

[boozehound]

Goodman also saying NBA assistant. Makes sense for him either way, as MHettel mentioned. He can wait out the investigation either way, and if he ends up getting cleared and wants to come back to college he can probably get a better job than he would be able to get right now with the investigation ongoing. If he doesn't get cleared then any NCAA sanctions matter a lot less, too.

[GoMuskies]

I love the idea of Miller back at Xavier, but these "second act" situations rarely go well.

[Drew]

I love the idea of Miller back at Xavier, but these "second act" situations rarely go well.

Yea, its embarrassing.

[UCGRAD4X]

See the Yugo.

Classic POS!

[The car has been subjected to much criticism over its design and reliability; the historian Jason Vuic has called it "the worst car in history"]

This is where "They don't make 'em like that anymore!" is followed by:

Thank God!

Then why did they make them for 8 years?

Fire Travis after 3! [see: questionable design and reliability]

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yea, its embarrassing.

Curious why you say this? Embarrassing because you dont think he'd have any interest? Embarrassing bc he left us?

[atljar]

I think Miller is the best coach in Xavier history.

My personal knowledge is mostly Skip through Travis. I was too young for Pete Gillen days and earlier.

I dont know about Best, because thats really hard to quantify with the changes the program has gone through. But Miller is most definitely my favorite coach. I miss the days of sitting in 103 and being able to hear him shouting and chewing out players, refs, and anyone else in his way. His fire was contagious. He was often louder than the Cintas center itself, and the players respected and responded to him

[Drew]

Curious why you say this? Embarrassing because you dont think he'd have any interest? Embarrassing bc he left us?

Because he left us.

[xudash]

IF Arizona, and Miller, are found to be completely innocent of the MAJOR recruiting violations that the program, and he, are accused of, another college program might take a chance on him right now. But it appears that he is going to go the pro ranks for a few years and let things cold down before possibly trying to get back into college coaching. That seems to be the preferred path by many coaches who run afoul of the NCAA. I do think he was the top coach that X has had and would have loved it if he had stayed, BUT he made it perfectly clear that he didn’t think that X could progress beyond where he had the program. From his actions, he also made it clear that he wasn’t satisfied with that level of achievement. Even if he was let off with only minor rules violations at this point, I would still be worried about what he might do in the future. I do not want X to adopt a “win at all cost” mentality and I’m afraid that under him that’s what might well happen. So, IF we could pick up exactly where we left off when he was the X coach, I’d say sure, let him come back. But I don’t think that is possible anymore. He has shown that being “very good” is not enough for him and that he is willing to do whatever it takes to become a championship coach, including leaving for what he sees as a better opportunity and also cheating if need be. I could never trust him again.

Firstly, I see the logic behind Sean taking an assistant coaching job in the NBA at this point. In addition to getting out of Dodge (i.e. NCAA basketball) for a while to allow things to cool down, as has been mentioned in this thread, it also would allow him to continue a reasonably lavish lifestyle, as I assume NBA salaries are larger up and down the bench.

With that noted, let's make sure we're putting things in proper perspective when it comes to Sean Miller, as far as Xavier is concerned:

1. Sean Miller coached at Xavier when Xavier was a member of the A10. It was hard for him to leave then. The "Buick" reference was very much about a very good basketball program that happened to be located in a non-power conference - remember that we were regarded as one of three (Temple and Gonzaga being the other two) high-major programs that played in mid-major conferences back then. Would he have left us if we had been in the Big East back then? Probably/maybe, at some point, but only for a top job of his liking.

2. Sean Miller, and his wife for that matter, are from Pittsburgh. Sean was a star player for Pitt in the BE. He's the guy that had the assist with Jerome Lane when Lane shattered the backboard, providing Bill Raftery with one of his classic one liners. The point: Sean and his wife actually really enjoyed their time in Cincinnati, but, more importantly, Sean was a Big East guy. Sure, Pitt is no longer in the BE and the conference has changed, but it's still the BE and the BET is still played in MSG, etc.

It's probably crazy to think he would take an assistant's job in college at a school where he had once been the head coach, especially if some viable opportunity presented itself from the NBA, but, if someone were actually lined up well, given all circumstances, to do just that, perhaps Sean Miller is that guy.

[XUBison]

Firstly, I see the logic behind Sean taking an assistant coaching job in the NBA at this point. In addition to getting out of Dodge (i.e. NCAA basketball) for a while to allow things to cool down, as has been mentioned in this thread, it also would allow him to continue a reasonably lavish lifestyle, as I assume NBA salaries are larger up and down the bench.

With that noted, let's make sure we're putting things in proper perspective when it comes to Sean Miller, as far as Xavier is concerned:

1. Sean Miller coached at Xavier when Xavier was a member of the A10. It was hard for him to leave then. The "Buick" reference was very much about a very good basketball program that happened to be located in a non-power conference - remember that we were regarded as one of three (Temple and Gonzaga being the other two) high-major programs that played in mid-major conferences back then. Would he have left us if we had been in the Big East back then? Probably/maybe, at some point, but only for a top job of his liking.

2. Sean Miller, and his wife for that matter, are from Pittsburgh. Sean was a star player for Pitt in the BE. He's the guy that had the assist with Jerome Lane when Lane shattered the backboard, providing Bill Raftery with one of his classic one liners. The point: Sean and his wife actually really enjoyed their time in Cincinnati, but, more importantly, Sean was a Big East guy. Sure, Pitt is no longer in the BE and the conference has changed, but it's still the BE and the BET is still played in MSG, etc.

It's probably crazy to think he would take an assistant's job in college at a school where he had once been the head coach, especially if some viable opportunity presented itself from the NBA, but, if someone were actually lined up well, given all circumstances, to do just that, perhaps Sean Miller is that guy.

Wouldn’t this also sync with the Whole Jesuit thing; forgive the prodigal son and give him a second chance to redeem himself and his career? I’m pretty sure I learned that in one of my theology classes.

[XUGRAD80]

Wouldn’t this also sync with the Whole Jesuit thing; forgive the prodigal son and give him a second chance to redeem himself and his career? I’m pretty sure I learned that in one of my theology classes.

Forgiveness does not mean that you turn a blind eye to the bad doing, act like it never happened, or automatically believe it will never happen again. Would you condone X allowing an athlete that broke the rules by point shaving, or threw a game for financial gain, to continue to play for the university? Isn’t it just as important that the university say that those that don’t meet our standards of proper behavior will not be allowed to participate as a coach of our teams?

Or that they have some standards of behavior in regards to their students? How can you say to a student that if you’re found to be cheating on a test that you still be flunked or even kicked out of school, but turn around and tell a coach that you’ll forgive the same behavior as long as they win?

In addition.....even if he is not found guilty of breaking any NCAA rules himself, at the very least he is guilty of failure to monitor and control those on his staff and around the program that are guilty of breaking the rules. So he’s either a cheater himself, or he’s a poor manager. Why would you want either as an employee in a management position?

He can gain redemption and earn forgiveness by his future actions somewhere else, thank you.

[XUBison]

Forgiveness does not mean that you turn a blind eye to the bad doing, act like it never happened, or automatically believe it will never happen again. Would you condone X allowing an athlete that broke the rules by point shaving, or threw a game for financial gain, to continue to play for the university? Isn’t it just as important that the university say that those that don’t meet our standards of proper behavior will not be allowed to participate as a coach of our teams?

Or that they have some standards of behavior in regards to their students? How can you say to a student that if you’re found to be cheating on a test that you still be flunked or even kicked out of school, but turn around and tell a coach that you’ll forgive the same behavior as long as they win?

In addition.....even if he is not found guilty of breaking any NCAA rules himself, at the very least he is guilty of failure to monitor and control those on his staff and around the program that are guilty of breaking the rules. So he’s either a cheater himself, or he’s a poor manager. Why would you want either as an employee in a management position?

He can gain redemption and earn money forgiveness by his future actions somewhere else, thank you.

Nope, this was definitely not in my theology class.

[IM4X]

I think Miller is the best coach in Xavier history.

Let’s see... Matta left and made it to two final fours and Miller left and made it to exactly zero of them.

What evidence do you have that Miller is objectively better. He is a good coach. No Matta.

[XUBison]

Let’s see... Matta left and made it to two final fours and Miller left and made it to exactly zero of them.

What evidence do you have that Miller is objectively better. He is a good coach. No Matta.

YTG just went to the F4.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Let’s see... Matta left and made it to two final fours and Miller left and made it to exactly zero of them.

What evidence do you have that Miller is objectively better. He is a good coach. No Matta.

Both really good coaches, Miller was on the doorstep of the Final 4 three different times, tournament can be a crapshoot. Just my opinion. I think Miller was better at X specifically, both were very good at their next schools. I would just give the edge overall to Miller.

[GoMuskies]

Miller was decidedly NOT good at his next school.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Miller was decidedly NOT good at his next school.

I mean he didn't meet expectations of Final 4's and National championships but to say he was not good is ridiculous.

EDIT: Unless you mean not good because he was caught cheating. Then I get your point. The best don't get caught.

[xu82]

I mean he didn't meet expectations of Final 4's and National championships but to say he was not good is ridiculous.

EDIT: Unless you mean not good because he was caught cheating. Then I get your point. The best don't get caught.

Perfect!

[GoMuskies]

At Arizona what he did was not good. The results. Thus, he was fired.

[IM4X]

Both really good coaches, Miller was on the doorstep of the Final 4 three different times, tournament can be a crapshoot. Just my opinion. I think Miller was better at X specifically, both were very good at their next schools. I would just give the edge overall to Miller.

I agree that both are very good coaches. If Matta had only made 1 final four, I could buy your “three times on the doorstep” argument and accept that maybe it is a toss up. Unfortunately for Sean, Thad didn’t just make it to a Final Four one time. He knocked on the door a second time and the door opened again. TWO FINAL FOURS. That tells me it is not a fluke. I call that being a better coach. Especially when Miller had recruiting classes rated higher than Matta.

For those reasons, there is no way I can come to a conclusion that Miller is the better coach.

No Matta how you look at it... Thad ends up on top!

[D-West & PO-Z]

At Arizona what he did was not good. The results. Thus, he was fired.

His results were very good for a the vast majority of his time there and he was routinely looked at as one of the best coaches yet to make a final 4. After the scandal things started to go down hill and he was let go. Obviously it would have been harder to let him go if he was going to Finals 4's so results played a part but with no scandal I think things turn out differently.

Sign me up for Miller's results at X, stat.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I agree that both are very good coaches. If Matta had only made 1 final four, I could buy your “three times on the doorstep” argument and accept that maybe it is a toss up. Unfortunately for Sean, Thad didn’t just make it to a Final Four one time. He knocked on the door a second time and the door opened again. TWO FINAL FOURS. That tells me it is not a fluke. I call that being a better coach. Especially when Miller had recruiting classes rated higher than Matta.

For those reasons, there is no way I can come to a conclusion that Miller is the better coach.

No Matta how you look at it... Thad ends up on top!

And Matta was a correct call by the referee away from losing in the 2nd round to Xavier which would have negated his first final 4. So, crapshoot. There is definitely an argument for Matta, it just won't sway me. The majority of my view is based off how I think each did while at X specifically though.

[IM4X]

At Arizona what he did was not good. The results. Thus, he was fired.

He told them he would reach Final Fours and win National Championships. He did neither.

Why do I feel like it’s going to be pretty much the same story with Mack at Louisville (maybe minus recorded illegal payments).

1. Coach is leaves X
2. Coach tells new school “Now that I’m at a superior school*, where I can recruit at an elite level, I will get this program to a final four and win a championship.
3. Coach realizes he ain’t quite the coaching God he thought he was- failing to reach a final four in 3 years.
4. Coach starts making excuses and fires some assistants, letting them be the scape goats.
5. Coach still can’t make a final four so he “does what he has to” to get that one top 10 kid who he thinks can be the key to making a final four.
6. Coach still can’t make it to a final four with that kid and unfortunately some shady practices are revealed.
7. Coach is in deep s#it now for two reasons: shady deals + no final four.
8. Coach gets canned- but not before he’s made a crapload of money.
9. Coach now has a lot of money and little integrity and no soul.

Some people will say, “He doesn’t care... he’s rich.” To that I say, “If being remembered for cheating doesn’t end up haunting him for the rest of his life, then never reaching a final four you thought you would certainly will.”

[IM4X]

And Matta was a correct call by the referee away from losing in the 2nd round to Xavier which would have neglected his first final 4. So, crapshoot. There is definitely an argument for Matta, it just won't sway me. The majority of my view is based off how I think each did while at X specifically though.

Thad got X to an elite 8 in 3 years. It took Miller 5.
Thad had a .772 winning percentage at X. Miler’s was .719

In fact, Thad Matta had the highest winning percentage of any coach at X

What’s that sound... Oh yeah... my mic dropping.

Come on D-West.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Thad got X to an elite 8 in 3 years. It took Miller 5.
Thad had a .772 winning percentage at X. Miler’s was .719

In fact, Thad Matta had the highest winning percentage of any coach at X

What’s that sound... Oh yeah... my mic dropping.

Come on D-West.

C'mon IM4X! Do some critical thinking! Thad inherited the greatest player in Xavier basketball history. He also never got past the 2nd round of the tournament with him. The following year we all know what happened, X was 10-9 heading into the crosstown shootout and completely lost.

Thad was a Chalmers passionate speech and historic run away from doing NOTHING with some of the best Xavier players. He did get it done, deserves credit, but anyone intellectually honest wouldn't look at what Thad took over and what Miller took over and try to argue bc Thad got to Elite 8 first he's better than Miller who took 5 years.

You're better than that!

[Xavier]

I know he had a miraculous run after the team started 10-9, everything kind of caught on fire and lead them to an elite 8. He is also responsible for what I thought was one of the most disappointing losses in the tournament I have experienced (With West). I know we have had more- but that was the first year I really expected a nice run and to lose in the 2nd round with Xaviers best player ever was hard.

I like Thad, he is a very good coach. I think Miller is better (at least at Xavier). It is hard to judge a coach after just 3 seasons though. Feel like he took a lucky run and bolted to OSU. I don't know how much he could build at Xavier like Miller did.

[IM4X]

I know he had a miraculous run after the team started 10-9, everything kind of caught on fire and lead them to an elite 8. He is also responsible for what I thought was one of the most disappointing losses in the tournament I have experienced (With West). I know we have had more- but that was the first year I really expected a nice run and to lose in the 2nd round with Xaviers best player ever was hard.

I like Thad, he is a very good coach. I think Miller is better (at least at Xavier). It is hard to judge a coach after just 3 seasons though. Feel like he took a lucky run and bolted to OSU. I don't know how much he could build at Xavier like Miller did.

Not you too XAVIER!??! What’s this love fest for a guy whose record was clearly worse. Who had more disappointments then Thad at X.

All the evidence is there. You a D-West just need to take a closer look.

Better record at X: Matta
Reached elite eight faster: Matta (and did it without West)
Better A-10 tournament record: Matta
Which of the two made the NCAA tournament every year: Matta.

Miler did a fine job at X, but Matta was betta... did it fasta... and went on to be stronga (2 final fours to Sean’s O).

Sean “Goose egg” Miller: Took over a program with a reputation for making Final Fours and could t get there even when he paid the best players to join his team. Ouch!

[GoMuskies]

I'll take Miller's tenure at X over Matta's as well. He coached Xavier's best team ever in 2006. He also had two coulda, woulda, shouldas against #1 seeds Ohio State and Pitt. Plus, it lasted longer.

Matta's post-X tenure was clearly vastly superior to Miller's unremarkable Arizona stint.

[IM4X]

C'mon IM4X! Do some critical thinking! Thad inherited the greatest player in Xavier basketball history. He also never got past the 2nd round of the tournament with him. The following year we all know what happened, X was 10-9 heading into the crosstown shootout and completely lost.

Thad was a Chalmers passionate speech and historic run away from doing NOTHING with some of the best Xavier players. He did get it done, deserves credit, but anyone intellectually honest wouldn't look at what Thad took over and what Miller took over and try to argue bc Thad got to Elite 8 first he's better than Miller who took 5 years.

You're better than that!

One great player does not a great team make. You ought to understand that notion. Miller had some of the top players in the nation (at Arizona) and he still couldn’t get to a Final Four. C’mon. I would argue that Miller had more collective talent to work with on his teams at X than Matta did. Could it be that Matta just developed them better. David West (a phenomenal player no doubt) got better every year under Matta. Sato and Chalmers and Anthony Myles all got better and - like West - exceeded expectations by the end of their final year.

Everything Miller did, Matta did betta... including the success achieved at the next school. When Miller gets to a championship game (or even a Final Four) I might be ready to revisit this conversation. Until then, Matta is the Man.

[Seven Eighths]

One great player does not a great team make. You ought to understand that notion. Miller had some of the top players in the nation (at Arizona) and he still couldn’t get to a Final Four. C’mon. I would argue that Miller had more collective talent to work with on his teams at X than Matta did. Could it be that Matta just developed them better. David West (a phenomenal player no doubt) got better every year under Matta. Sato and Chalmers and Anthony Myles all got better and - like West - exceeded expectations by the end of their final year.

Everything Miller did, Matta did betta... including the success achieved at the next school. When Miller gets to a championship game (or even a Final Four) I might be ready to revisit this conversation. Until then, Matta is the Man.

Matta had two of the all time greats at XU and lost in the second round with West and Sato. He had two recent greats at OSU in Conely and Greg Oden and was one bad call from flamming out in the second round that year.

Miller was the better coach at XU. Matta inherited a great team and got lucky in 2004 to not be in the NIT.

[Blue Blooded-05]

To me, the biggest “what if” in Xavier history is what if Miller stayed for the 2010 season. If he does, he maybe convinces Derek Brown to return for 1 more year.

Miller with a starting 5 of Tu, Crawford, Brown, McLean, Love with Dante, Lyons, Frease, Redford, Taylor coming off the bench was National Championship good against a pretty weak field that year.

[markchal]

I'll take Miller's tenure at X over Matta's as well. He coached Xavier's best team ever in 2006. He also had two coulda, woulda, shouldas against #1 seeds Ohio State and Pitt. Plus, it lasted longer.

Matta's post-X tenure was clearly vastly superior to Miller's unremarkable Arizona stint.

I agree with most of this, except I think the best team ever was that 07-08 team when Duncan and Burrell were seniors.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I know he had a miraculous run after the team started 10-9, everything kind of caught on fire and lead them to an elite 8. He is also responsible for what I thought was one of the most disappointing losses in the tournament I have experienced (With West). I know we have had more- but that was the first year I really expected a nice run and to lose in the 2nd round with Xaviers best player ever was hard.

I like Thad, he is a very good coach. I think Miller is better (at least at Xavier). It is hard to judge a coach after just 3 seasons though. Feel like he took a lucky run and bolted to OSU. I don't know how much he could build at Xavier like Miller did.


I'll take Miller's tenure at X over Matta's as well. He coached Xavier's best team ever in 2006. He also had two coulda, woulda, shouldas against #1 seeds Ohio State and Pitt. Plus, it lasted longer.

Matta's post-X tenure was clearly vastly superior to Miller's unremarkable Arizona stint.


Matta had two of the all time greats at XU and lost in the second round with West and Sato. He had two recent greats at OSU in Conely and Greg Oden and was one bad call from flamming out in the second round that year.

Miller was the better coach at XU. Matta inherited a great team and got lucky in 2004 to not be in the NIT.

So I think this makes it so far:

Miller: 4
Matta: 1

At least when comparing X only coaching stints

[D-West & PO-Z]

I agree with most of this, except I think the best team ever was that 07-08 team when Duncan and Burrell were seniors.

Yeah, 07-08 was Miller's best team imo. Not sure best ever at X but at the very top. Thinking maybe this is the year GO meant? 2006 we lost in the 1st round to Gonzaga. Unless he meant 2006-2007? That was the team one correct officiating call away from beating #1 OSU and Matta.

[D-West & PO-Z]

To me, the biggest “what if” in Xavier history is what if Miller stayed for the 2010 season. If he does, he maybe convinces Derek Brown to return for 1 more year.

Miller with a starting 5 of Tu, Crawford, Brown, McLean, Love with Dante, Lyons, Frease, Redford, Taylor coming off the bench was National Championship good against a pretty weak field that year.

Yeah that hurts.

I am convinced that has we been in the BE or it was on the horizon Miller would have stayed. I could be wrong but he almost said no to Arizona as it was. Miler could have been our Mark Few if the circumstances were a littler different imo.

[Seven Eighths]

Yeah that hurts.

I am convinced that has we been in the BE or it was on the horizon Miller would have stayed. I could be wrong but he almost said no to Arizona as it was. Miler could have been our Mark Few if the circumstances were a littler different imo.

Think of the team/players Miller inherited from Matta and the team/players Mack inherited from Miller.

[D-West & PO-Z]

One great player does not a great team make.

This would be correct if West was the only Xavier great. Matta had 2 of the top 10 Xavier players in history for 2 years and he couldn't get past the second round. The supporting cast was plenty good as well.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Think of the team/players Miller inherited from Matta and the team/players Mack inherited from Miller.

Oh yeah not even close.

[IM4X]

I agree with most of this, except I think the best team ever was that 07-08 team when Duncan and Burrell were seniors.

Ans how did that team finish... no final 4 and Duncan was a complete no show.

Don’t get it. Miller was the coach in charge of preparing that team. He came up short. Just like he continued to do at Arizona. He was a good coach. He also had a stacked team unlike any before him. Maybe not the best player of all time- but more excellent players

[Seven Eighths]

Ans how did that team finish... no final 4 and Duncan was a complete no show.

Don’t get it. Miller was the coach in charge of preparing that team. He came up short. Just like he continued to do at Arizona. He was a good coach. He also had a stacked team unlike any before him. Maybe not the best player of all time- but more excellent players

Miller brought those guys into XU. Matta's best team was full of Prosser's players.

[IM4X]

This would be correct if West was the only Xavier great. Matta had 2 of the top 10 Xavier players in history for 2 years and he couldn't get past the second round. The supporting cast was plenty good as well.

Miller had maybe had 2 of the the top 10 but Miller had at least several more top twenty players... and his players were rated higher before getting to X.

[Xavier]

Miller brought those guys into XU. Matta's best team was full of Prosser's players.

Yeah, He took Prosser's guys and bolted after a lucky (albeit great) run to the elite 8, after underperforming big time the year prior.

[IM4X]

Miller brought those guys into XU. Matta's best team was full of Prosser's players.

Fhat proves my point even more. Matta did it with the players another coach brought in who couldn’t even get X to a Sweet Sixty and Matta took them to a Elite Eight. Miller had his own guys.

[Seven Eighths]

Fhat proves my point even more. Matta did it with the players another coach brought in who couldn’t even get X to a Sweet Sixty and Matta took them to a Elite Eight. Miller had his own guys.

It does not prove you point. Matta inherited two of the greatest to ever play at XU and lost in the second round, second round and was 10-9 headed to the NIT in his third season and final season. He went on one lucky run and left hardly any good players when he left.

[IM4X]

Matta inherited two of the greatest to ever play at XU and lost in the second round, second round and was 10-9 headed to the NIT in his third season and final season. He went on one lucky run and left hardly any good players when he left.

Funny. Lucky. They blew out the number 1 team in the country in the A-10 tournament and then went on to steamroll over teams projected to crush them and would have knocked off Duke if not for a few bad calls against Myles. no. That is not luck. That is a team coming together at the right time being coached by a great coach - someone who would go on to make it to a final four and even the NCAA Championship game another. Doesn’t sound like a lucky coach to me.

[Seven Eighths]

Runs in the NCAA's are fun but that's on players typically more than the coach. Look at UCLA's lucky run this year. That team was 10-9 and Chalmers and players decided not to go out like that. I don't give Matta much credit for that run. He was the coach so he deserves some but overall it was players recruited by Prosser that finally said ef it, we ain't going out like this.

Miller took over a program with hardly anything left behind and built the best XU team of all time. That team was good early, often and well into March only losing to a stacked UCLA team.

[Xville]

I just want X to have a coach again as good as either of them.

[GoMuskies]

I agree with most of this, except I think the best team ever was that 07-08 team when Duncan and Burrell were seniors.

That's the team I meant. Definitely not the '06 team that barely made the tournament by winning four in four days!

[XUBison]

I don’t know how this is debatable when comparing time at X. I mean, did Thad bother to recruit anyone while at X? (That’s rhetorical for those who might be slow on the uptake.) And it’s not simply that Sean had to rebuild after inheriting an empty cupboard, but he also left Mack with three straight sweet 16s.

[IM4X]

I don’t know how this is debatable when comparing time at X. I mean, did Thad bother to recruit anyone while at X? (That’s rhetorical for those who might be slow on the uptake.) And it’s not simply that Sean had to rebuild after inheriting an empty cupboard, but he also left Mack with three straight sweet 16s.

Not sure how one coach leaving more good players behind for the next coach when he move on somehow suggests he is a better coach. A coach leaving with the highest winning percentage of any X coach certainly does though.

[XUBison]

Not sure how one coach leaving more good players behind for the next coach when he move on somehow suggests he is a better coach. A coach leaving with the highest winning percentage of any X coach certainly does though.

You kind of suck at this whole debate thing.

[IM4X]

Runs in the NCAA's are fun but that's on players typically more than the coach. Look at UCLA's lucky run this year. That team was 10-9 and Chalmers and players decided not to go out like that. I don't give Matta much credit for that run. He was the coach so he deserves some but overall it was players recruited by Prosser that finally said ef it, we ain't going out like this.

Miller took over a program with hardly anything left behind and built the best XU team of all time. That team was good early, often and well into March only lose to a stacked UCLA team.

You don’t give Matta much credit for that run to the elite eight, yet you give Miller credit for choking against UCLA with what you call the best X team of all time.

Miller’s team didn’t just lose to that UCLA team. They were completely annihilated by them. So if you’re saying the best X team of all time (not sure I agree with that statement) got blown out by a UCLA team that didn’t even advance past the next game, what are you really saying about the coach?

I know what I was saying- “That was a good UCLA team, but Miller got seriously out coached and he did not have his players ready to play (including Josh Duncan with his brick after brick from three). Miller can certainly recruit well... but he can’t quite coach his recruits up to their potential. Matta’s players exceed their expectations. Not sure how that is giving an edge to Miller.

[IM4X]

You kind of suck at this whole debate thing.

Says the guy who believes a coach leaving better players behind for the next coach is proof he is a better coach than one who does not.

At least the other posters siding with Miller had arguments for their stance that didn’t come from out of left field.

[IM4X]

At the end of the day, I see both Matta and Miller as excellent hires by X. Apparently some of you prefer Miller and that’s okay.

[BandAid]

Miller’s team didn’t just lose to that UCLA team. They were completely annihilated by them. So if you’re saying the best X team of all time (not sure I agree with that statement) got blown out by a UCLA team that didn’t even advance past the next game, what are you really saying about the coach?

I'm not trying to make a Miller/Matta argument in this post. But I do want to point out how stacked that UCLA team was: Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, and Luc Mbah a Moute. Xavier has never had a roster close to that.

[UCGRAD4X]

I just want X to have a coach again as good as either of them.

Mike drop!

[GoMuskies]

I'm not trying to make a Miller/Matta argument in this post. But I do want to point out how stacked that UCLA team was: Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, and Luc Mbah a Moute. Xavier has never had a roster close to that.

Somehow Western Kentucky managed to hang with them. And Mizzou. And Memphis spanked em.

[Seven Eighths]

You kind of suck at this whole debate thing.

Truth.

[Seven Eighths]

You don’t give Matta much credit for that run to the elite eight, yet you give Miller credit for choking against UCLA with what you call the best X team of all time.

Miller’s team didn’t just lose to that UCLA team. They were completely annihilated by them. So if you’re saying the best X team of all time (not sure I agree with that statement) got blown out by a UCLA team that didn’t even advance past the next game, what are you really saying about the coach?

I know what I was saying- “That was a good UCLA team, but Miller got seriously out coached and he did not have his players ready to play (including Josh Duncan with his brick after brick from three). Miller can certainly recruit well... but he can’t quite coach his recruits up to their potential. Matta’s players exceed their expectations. Not sure how that is giving an edge to Miller.

Yeah, that 03/04 team coached by Thad was an NIT at best most of the season. They got swept by Duquesne for god sake. Charmers and Sato and some others had enough and went on a great run. Runs are fun but often lucky and/or fueled by certain players playing out of their mind. See UCLA this year. They were not a good team and Cronin is average but they went on a nice run.

Thad lived off of players he did not recruit and was on lucky run away from no second weekend trips in his three years despite coaching some of the best to ever play at XU. Miller was vastly superior while at XU.

[XUBison]

Says the guy who believes a coach leaving better players behind for the next coach is proof he is a better coach than one who does not.

At least the other posters siding with Miller had arguments for their stance that didn’t come from out of left field.

Ummm, what? Like I said...

[D-West & PO-Z]

Apparently some of you prefer Miller and that’s okay.

I'm not sure a single poster jumped on the Matta was better at X than Miller train with you.

But you did mic drop, so I guess you win and we all lose.

[xukeith]

To me Miller was the one coach who struggled the most with his decision to leave.

Matta snuck out in the middle of the night without a second thought. Mack had one foot out the door his entire last season once Pitino was dismissed. Skip and Pete were leaving a different X program than today's.

Obviously this would never happen but if Miller wanted to come back to X today I would show Steele the door and hire Miller back, as long as his NCAA baggage was a non issue. I think Miller is the best coach in Xavier history.

Agree. Miller was awesome.
X needs maybe 4-5 Drew Lavenders.

[GoMuskies]

X needs maybe 4-5 Drew Lavenders.

We'd have a lot of issues on the glass!