Wilcher enters transfer portal

[GoMuskies]

Kenny Payne would be Pat Kennedy v2.0. One splashy recruiting class and a lot of disappointing basketball.

[Xuperman]

I suppose I might be a fan of the program. Steele has one more year to prove that he can do this.
There are no more excuses. Other schools have worked through iish. He hasn’t proven he can do it yet.
#ButlerSecondHalf #MeaningfulGameFails #RosterMismanagement

MOR, in all seriousness, do you really intend dIsavow the BB program IF we have similar results and Steele is not let go? More than a few here are adamant they will...kinda like actors in 2016 screaming they would leave the country if Trump beats Clinton.

I have a strong feeling that barring a complete disaster, Coach Steele will not get the hook anytime soon. I'm guessing that the people making these decisions will stick to their guns, value continuity and allow a young coach to grow into the job.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, in all seriousness, do you really intend dIsavow the BB program IF we have similar results and Steele is not let go? More than a few here are adamant they will...kinda like actors in 2016 screaming they would leave the country if Trump beats Clinton.

I have a strong feeling that barring a complete disaster, Coach Steele will not get the hook anytime soon. I'm guessing that the people making these decisions will stick to their guns, value continuity and allow a young coach to grow into the job.

Did I say that? You young whippersnappers seem to really like not hearing what is actually said, but ascribe your own mental “takes” into what you WANT to believe.
I’m not ever pulling my support for the University, no matter what. You do know that Xavier has a mission waaay beyond Basketball, right? I’ll never pull my season tickets either, in fact I’ll probably add another one soon.
All I know is that this brand cannot continue to be damaged for the long term, and there is much restlessness among the flock. Continued failures will not be tolerated.
The next time any of us will probably hear directly from Steele will be at the AFO Golf outing on June 7- that is if he doesn’t flake out and not show up. (There already will be no Butler County Steak Fry this summer). There will be plenty of questions and we’ll see where that goes. The leash is getting shorter.
Time to show......or go.

[SM#24]

If you consider that I am a 1972 graduate and Scholarship Athlete and Team Captain at Xavier.
If you consider that I sat through over 15 years of horrible Xavier Basketball before Bob Staak was hired.
If you consider that I’m a 3 seat lower bowl Season Ticket Holder
If you consider that I’m an Officer in the Lew Hirt Society.
If You consider that I’m an 1831 Society Level Donor
If you consider that I had a daughter graduate from Xavier
If you consider that I coached up to High School level Basketball for 25 years
If you consider that I know pretty much anyone who runs the AFO
If you consider that I attended A10 Tournaments and Big East Tournaments up until this year.
If you consider that I visited every gym in the MCC, A10 and 9 of 11 in the Big East so far
If you consider that I’ve been to over 20 Xavier NCAA games where ever for Xavier

Then, yeah. I suppose I might be a fan of the program. Steele has one more year to prove that he can do this.
There are no more excuses. Other schools have worked through iish. He hasn’t proven he can do it yet.
#ButlerSecondHalf #MeaningfulGameFails #RosterMismanagement

Who's #1 fan now ?
You all can suck it !

[Xuperman]

Alumni support for the University is not in question here but the viability of the BB Coach is. As you know, there is a sizable group on this board that want TS gone now. A considerably larger group is calling for the axe to fall UNLESS we are in the Tournament next year. I assume you are in that group.

I am genuinely curious about what your level of interest/support in the BASKETBALL program will be if next years results are similar and Steele is NOT shown the door? Would it drop off precipitously?

[xukeith]

MOR you went to BE tourney last year?

[GoMuskies]

MOR you went to BE tourney last year?

I remember him posting about it at the time. That was about the last sporting event open to the general public for six months.

[Masterofreality]

MOR you went to BE tourney last year?

I was there for that DePaul debacle. Then got my ass out of town. Not in this pandemic year..
Two terrible exits in a row does not engender confidence

[Masterofreality]

Alumni support for the University is not in question here but the viability of the BB Coach is. As you know, there is a sizable group on this board that want TS gone now. A considerably larger group is calling for the axe to fall UNLESS we are in the Tournament next year. I assume you are in that group.

I am genuinely curious about what your level of interest/support in the BASKETBALL program will be if next years results are similar and Steele is NOT shown the door? Would it drop off precipitously?

How many ways do I have to say this? I am not dropping my season tickets. Anyone who does is destroying the lifeblood of the entire athletic program. Want that?
If it comes down to alumni exerting financial pressure after years of failure we have a lot bigger problem than just the coach.

[Xuperman]

How many ways do I have to say this? I am not dropping my season tickets. Anyone who does is destroying the lifeblood of the entire athletic program. Want that?
If it comes down to alumni exerting financial pressure after years of failure we have a lot bigger problem than just the coach.

Ok, crystal on your stance. I guess you will be extremely disgruntled watching Coach Steele in the big chair for team 101, if he doesn't get us dancing next year. Maybe, you'll give those killer tickets to someone and spare the misery.

To your point, and a very significant one, some of your fellow alumni are promising to pull all support for the BBall program....including financial....."Not one cent".

[Masterofreality]

Maybe, you'll give those killer tickets to someone and spare the misery..

Empty seats say almost as much as not buying them in the first place. Get it?
To be clear, that is not happening next year, but failure cannot be encouraged to continue. Again, there are no excuses left.

By the way, there are other sports that can be supported. Basketball isn’t the only one.

How does 3,000 (half of them students) the building sound? If he fails next year, there’s your Team 101 attendance

[IM4X]

Don’t know if this had been posted. Thought it was interesting the way CJ worded his reason for transferring from X.

"The transferring thing, you transfer for certain reasons and you hope and you worry that the next situation you go into, you don't experience the same thing," Wilcher said. "And I didn't feel that after talking to Coach Matt. Because even when he was at St. John's, he was always honest with me, always real with me. So I knew he would be up front with me about everything."

[Xville]

Don’t know if this had been posted. Thought it was interesting the way CJ worded his reason for transferring from at X.

"The transferring thing, you transfer for certain reasons and you hope and you worry that the next situation you go into, you don't experience the same thing," Wilcher said. "And I didn't feel that after talking to Coach Matt. Because even when he was at St. John's, he was always honest with me, always real with me. So I knew he would be up front with me about everything."

Another pretty damning remark regarding this awesome coaching staff x has.

[XUBison]

Don’t know if this had been posted. Thought it was interesting the way CJ worded his reason for transferring from at X.

"The transferring thing, you transfer for certain reasons and you hope and you worry that the next situation you go into, you don't experience the same thing," Wilcher said. "And I didn't feel that after talking to Coach Matt. Because even when he was at St. John's, he was always honest with me, always real with me. So I knew he would be up front with me about everything."

Not good.

[xudash]

Not good.

You’re being polite.

This is terrible. It’s the antithesis of building a positive, winning culture.

[drudy23]

So does this come down to promised playing time that never happened?

[bjf123]

So does this come down to promised playing time that never happened?

We’ll never know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Backyard Champ]

Honestly, that seems more like a freshman who was expecting a bigger role. Either this year or next. He was probably recruited with the idea and message that this was his path and that he would have a bigger role.

I don’t think this is a negative on the coaches. I think they saw him and his potential and likely told him as much. He didn’t pan out as expected, but wanted the role that was discussed when recruiting. He wasn’t willing to put forth the effort, and transferred.

No doubt he could be something special, but it shouldn’t be given to him. He didn’t want to earn it. Fine by me that he’s leaving.

[Masterofreality]

Honestly, that seems more like a freshman who was expecting a bigger role. Either this year or next. He was probably recruited with the idea and message that this was his path and that he would have a bigger role.

I don’t think this is a negative on the coaches. I think they saw him and his potential and likely told him as much. He didn’t pan out as expected, but wanted the role that was discussed when recruiting. He wasn’t willing to put forth the effort, and transferred.

No doubt he could be something special, but it shouldn’t be given to him. He didn’t want to earn it. Fine by me that he’s leaving.

Ooooooofff. Gold practice jersey winner goes to playing behind Jason Carter and barely sees the court in the second half of the last Butler game?
Seems like he sure “put in the effort” to me.

[xavierj]

I think what it means is that when he was recruited he was told that after the seniors left he would have a great opportunity to start. He was fine with coming back but when Nate announced he was coming back and a good chance Paul was too, he decided to move on. We will see if it was better to bring back Nate and Paul at the expense of losing a young guy who has future potential. I wish he would have stayed but he won’t be hard to replace. If he for sure would have had to sit out next year, he would have stayed 1000%.

[MHettel]

I wish he would have stayed but he won’t be hard to replace. If he for sure would have had to sit out next year, he would have stayed 1000%.

Wait! I thought the new transfer rule was gonna be a great idea? It's gonna hurt the mid-major programs and help a team like XU. Right? That's what all the "players rights apologists" told us.

[xavierj]

Wait! I thought the new transfer rule was gonna be a great idea? It's gonna hurt the mid-major programs and help a team like XU. Right? That's what all the "players rights apologists" told us.

I don’t see it hurting Xavier. They will lose players and gain players like everyone else. I don’t like it but it is what it is. CJ wilcher is a shooter and that is it. He is replaceable. If he was a stud he wouldn’t be going to a program in the middle of nowhere, that will continue to take a beating in the Big 10. I hope he does well.

[xavierj]

Wait! I thought the new transfer rule was gonna be a great idea? It's gonna hurt the mid-major programs and help a team like XU. Right? That's what all the "players rights apologists" told us.

The other thing with this portal. After a ton of kids have nowhere to go, future players will think twice. Kyky already is. There are going to be more players then spots available.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Wait! I thought the new transfer rule was gonna be a great idea? It's gonna hurt the mid-major programs and help a team like XU. Right? That's what all the "players rights apologists" told us.

Ha, anybody ho truly thinks this is good for players rights and is happy about it, isnt happy just if it helps their team or not.

I love the new rule, absolutely love it. It was long overdue. I'm sure at times it will negatively impact X, that is more than ok. I'm sure it will benefit X at times, and that is ok too.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The other thing with this portal. After a ton of kids have nowhere to go, future players will think twice. Kyky already is. There are going to be more players then spots available.

Isn't that impossible? Wont the number of players and open spots have to be the exact same?? Maybe not a spot where you want, but definitely a spot.

EDIT: I guess a team who lost someone could choose to not fill the scholarship, thus creating one less spot than players available, but I don't see that happening ton since there should be so many one year only players available as well.

[xavierj]

Isn't that impossible? Wont the number of players and open spots have to be the exact same?? Maybe not a spot where you want, but definitely a spot.

EDIT: I guess a team who lost someone could choose to not fill the scholarship, thus creating one less spot than players available, but I don't see that happening ton since there should be so many one year only players available as well.

Well with so many people in the portal teams will pick and choose what they need and a lot of teams won’t fill all available ships because it’s tough to keep everyone happy. So some guys will have to go to some school in a crap conference that plays at a much lower level than they felt they would and will regret leaving.

[Xuperman]

What about all the players returning with the "free" covid waiver? There is going to be a lot of roster spots taken by guys who normally would no longer have eligibility.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What about all the players returning with the "free" covid waiver? There is going to be a lot of roster spots taken by guys who normally would no longer have eligibility.

I believe I read something about them not counting against the scholarship limit, or getting extra if you have players take advantage of that? I could be wrong though.

[mid major]

So does this come down to promised playing time that never happened?

Or promised playing time which will diminish considerably as seniors decide to come back. He went from being a starter logging 34 minutes a game to a 15 minutes a game bench player.

[XUBison]

It’s going to be interesting to see how high school recruiting plays out, assuming the year in residence is permanently eliminated. Why would schools and coaches invest time and money into recruiting high school kids in this environment?

[usfldan]

It’s going to be interesting to see how high school recruiting plays out, assuming the year in residency is permanently eliminated. Why would schools and coaches invest time and money into recruiting high school kids in this environment?

Schools have no idea who will be in the transfer portal in two years. They do know who will be college freshmen in two years. I don't see anyone abandoning any source of finding talent (at least not successfully).

[MHettel]

Schools have no idea who will be in the transfer portal in two years. They do know who will be college freshmen in two years. I don't see anyone abandoning any source of finding talent (at least not successfully).

Why do they need to know who is in the portal 2 years from now? All they need is to know who is there NOW, and what the coach can offer in terms of PT.

I saw yesterday, some kid that was a soph was POY in a small conference and he just BOUNCED to a big time program. No way does that happen if he has to sit for a season. Kids name was Walker, I think.

How bout this scenario: Say a guy like Sean Miller decides that being on a 1 year deal with AZ isn't worth it. He resigns. He spends the entire next season tampering with active players at other schools. Well, not tampering actually, since he doesn't work for any school he isn't tampering. He tells a dozen guys that if they were to transfer, he would be interested in having them IF...IF...IF he were to land another coaching gig. And, he'll mention that he plans to stock his first roster with primarily transfers. Then he DOES get hired and builds a top 10 team out of great players from bad teams.

Now, it might not be MILLER that does this, but any number of coaches could pull this off. It's gonna happen.

[Xavier]

A coach who builds his team with transfers will happen. But the scenario above has almost no chance of happening. Make it sound so easy...a coach like Miller bugging the crap out of you the whole season to come play at a school with a bunch of other guys in the same situation (IE you will still be competing for playing time, you have no clue how good the team is). IF he even gets hired?

Yeah, not going to happen.

[bleedXblue]

This like everything else will be a shit show for the first few years. Players transferring just because they see better opportunities somewhere else. Only to realize later that the situation was actually worse or it didn't play out the way that they had hoped.

Also, is this a "free" transfer one time? After that if you want to transfer a second time, you have to sit a year? Pretty sure I remember it that way.

[paulxu]

Can't a kid enter the transfer portal, not get any offers he likes, and return to the school he was trying to leave?

And if so, once he enters the portal, can't the school say they don't want him back?

(clearly I don't know how this thing works)

[boozehound]

Honestly, that seems more like a freshman who was expecting a bigger role. Either this year or next. He was probably recruited with the idea and message that this was his path and that he would have a bigger role.

I don’t think this is a negative on the coaches. I think they saw him and his potential and likely told him as much. He didn’t pan out as expected, but wanted the role that was discussed when recruiting. He wasn’t willing to put forth the effort, and transferred.

No doubt he could be something special, but it shouldn’t be given to him. He didn’t want to earn it. Fine by me that he’s leaving.

It's a bit strange all around, the more I think about it. Kid is from New Jersey and is leaving Xavier to go play basketball at Nebraska. Nebraska. Lots of guys don't play as much as they would have liked as a Freshman, but he seemed likely to continue to get significant minutes. I would understand it more if he was transferring to a comparable/better program or something closer to home, or if he was a sophomore and still wasn't playing much.

[XUGRAD80]

It's a bit strange all around, the more I think about it. Kid is from New Jersey and is leaving Xavier to go play basketball at Nebraska. Nebraska. Lots of guys don't play as much as they would have liked as a Freshman, but he seemed likely to continue to get significant minutes. I would understand it more if he was transferring to a comparable/better program or something closer to home, or if he was a sophomore and still wasn't playing much.

He is going to play for someone who he already had a relationship with. Showing once again that the school is not as important to many recruits as is their relationship with the recruiters and coaches. The accommodations, facilities, TV coverage, etc. is pretty equal among the top schools/conferences. But in today’s COVID situation campus visits are rare, so even if a school has an obvious physical advantage over another that’s not going to come into play very often. It’s all about the relationships that are developed. If we can believe the statements attributed to Wilcher, we can see that he lost trust in what he was being told by the coaches. It it appears that he feels he can trust what the coach at Nebraska has told him.

[D-West & PO-Z]

A coach who builds his team with transfers will happen. But the scenario above has almost no chance of happening. Make it sound so easy...a coach like Miller bugging the crap out of you the whole season to come play at a school with a bunch of other guys in the same situation (IE you will still be competing for playing time, you have no clue how good the team is). IF he even gets hired?

Yeah, not going to happen.

Ha, seriously.

Someone will try and build from transfers primarily. I dont get the example provided though. Why does Miller have to be not at Arizona? And he's recruiting guys to a school he doesnt even coach at yet? What?

[GoMuskies]

It's the Huggins model before he got the K-State job. He was already recruiting Beasley (at least allegedly) and wasn't limited by NCAA rules since he wasn't employed by a particular instititution at the time.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It's the Huggins model before he got the K-State job. He was already recruiting Beasley (at least allegedly) and wasn't limited by NCAA rules since he wasn't employed by a particular instititution at the time.

One guy who is in high school is little bit different than a whole team of transfers who are already on college teams.

Plus Beasley never played for Huggins, so for at least all of Beasley's senior year in high school Huggins would have been recruiting him while the coach of K State.