Probable new law effecting HS seniors passes in KY

[XUGRAD80]

http://www.fortthomasmatters.com/2021/03/lawmakers-approve-bill-allowing.html?fbclid=IwAR3wSc_x_Bao6FbbE4itbggW2fZ LaQwAlVhExaXY388HSEqH4K0o7dJ-wLw

The Ky House (92-5) and Senate(36-0) have passed a bill that will in essence give all Kentucky students a “re-do” of this past year, including being allowed to participate in all athletic activities (provided they don’t turn 19 before August 1, 2021).

While this law is only for Kentucky students I can see it becoming something other states will do to. The Ky law says that it will be left up to individual school districts and it will be voluntary not mandatory, but I think it will be popular with lots of kids who missed getting to play or struggled academically.

If this goes nationwide (which wouldn’t surprise me at all)...how does this potentially effect the recruiting for the next couple of years?

🤔.....interesting

[GoMuskies]

Very few kids who were ever going to be good enough to play at a high D-I level are going to want to wait an extra year to go to college.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Very few kids who were ever going to be good enough to play at a high D-I level are going to want to wait an extra year to go to college.

Agreed. And the ones not good enough don't typically want to spend another year in high school.

I mean maybe kids have changed but aren't most ecstatic to get out of their parents house and move on to college?

[MHettel]

I don't get this.

I mean we all were / are impacted. Why do we feel the need to address the impact with certain sub-groups and not others.

Before this season started, the NCAA granted everyone an extra year of eligibility. Why did they do that? It's just gonna crowd the rosters and impact Freshmen. So in stead of senior feeling the impact we just pass it along to the Freshmen? What the hell kind of "fix" is that?

Look, I can see if a player opted out this year. Don't count it. Or, if the season didn't happen at all. Don't count it. But we had like an 85% season and we are headed into a 68 team NCAA tourney and will crown a champ. Why wouldn't this year count?

What are we trying to fix? We break more than we fix a lot of the time...

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't get this.

I mean we all were / are impacted. Why do we feel the need to address the impact with certain sub-groups and not others.

Before this season started, the NCAA granted everyone an extra year of eligibility. Why did they do that? It's just gonna crowd the rosters and impact Freshmen. So in stead of senior feeling the impact we just pass it along to the Freshmen? What the hell kind of "fix" is that?

Look, I can see if a player opted out this year. Don't count it. Or, if the season didn't happen at all. Don't count it. But we had like an 85% season and we are headed into a 68 team NCAA tourney and will crown a champ. Why wouldn't this year count?

What are we trying to fix? We break more than we fix a lot of the time...

I dont get the high school thing. What classes do they take? None? All electives? Just need to take one? There are no advanced high school degrees.

The college thing I think they did to avoid a mass amount of opt outs. We would have seen opt outs skyrocket imo if they didnt make that exception. They didnt want to see that and have it impact the attempt to have a season.

[XUGRAD80]

I don't get this.

I mean we all were / are impacted. Why do we feel the need to address the impact with certain sub-groups and not others.

Before this season started, the NCAA granted everyone an extra year of eligibility. Why did they do that? It's just gonna crowd the rosters and impact Freshmen. So in stead of senior feeling the impact we just pass it along to the Freshmen? What the hell kind of "fix" is that?

Look, I can see if a player opted out this year. Don't count it. Or, if the season didn't happen at all. Don't count it. But we had like an 85% season and we are headed into a 68 team NCAA tourney and will crown a champ. Why wouldn't this year count?

What are we trying to fix? We break more than we fix a lot of the time...

I don’t think you’re getting that is is for HIGH SCHOOL students. Has no effect on any college students. What it does do is give someone in a KY High School the opportunity to actually play in front of coaches and be seen......if they come back for another year. It also gives all of the other students the opportunity to repeat this past year....for academic or athletic reasons...and then move on as they normally would do. There are thousands of high school athletes (beyond just basketball) that either didn’t get to compete, or if they did compete didn’t have the chance to impress college coaches and win a scholarship, because of COVID shutdowns.

Let’s do another scenario....say college A would love to give a kid a scholarship, but because of returning players or other reasons, they don’t have one open for next year. Perhaps they’ve already filled their quota. They can now tell that kid to STAY in HS, take AP courses (which may count for college credit in KY colleges), and come the following year. Like taking a year of Prep School, but without having to leave home or pay tuition to do so.

It may not effect the top 100 kids, but it sure as heck gives the rest of the kids an option they didn’t have before, and hopefully more opportunities.

[XUGRAD80]

I dont get the high school thing. What classes do they take? None? All electives? Just need to take one? There are no advanced high school degrees.

The college thing I think they did to avoid a mass amount of opt outs. We would have seen opt outs skyrocket imo if they didnt make that exception. They didnt want to see that and have it impact the attempt to have a season.

What’s wrong with taking all electives? I had about a dozen extra credits before I graduated by taking electives in place of just taking study halls and gym class. I think my senior year I only had 2 required classes the rest were all electives. My daughter had 2-3 college credits by taking AP courses and then passing tests. My son did 1/2 school and co-opted his senior year, graduated HS and went right into the trade Union as an apprentice. 99% of the kids that played football in KY high schools last year played in front of only family, same with soccer, wrestling, basketball, swimming, etc. This law gives the kids that want to,the opportunity to come back, play on the team, get seen, and maybe win a scholarship. What’s wrong with that?

[GoMuskies]

To MHettel's point, though, that still just screws over the class below (current juniors). Any effort to be "fair" is going to end up screwing someone.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don’t think you’re getting that is is for HIGH SCHOOL students. Has no effect on any college students. What it does do is give someone in a KY High School the opportunity to actually play in front of coaches and be seen......if they come back for another year. It also gives all of the other students the opportunity to repeat this past year....for academic or athletic reasons...and then move on as they normally would do. There are thousands of high school athletes (beyond just basketball) that either didn’t get to compete, or if they did compete didn’t have the chance to impress college coaches and win a scholarship, because of COVID shutdowns.

Let’s do another scenario....say college A would love to give a kid a scholarship, but because of returning players or other reasons, they don’t have one open for next year. Perhaps they’ve already filled their quota. They can now tell that kid to STAY in HS, take AP courses (which may count for college credit in KY colleges), and come the following year. Like taking a year of Prep School, but without having to leave home or pay tuition to do so.

It may not effect the top 100 kids, but it sure as heck gives the rest of the kids an option they didn’t have before, and hopefully more opportunities.

I think he gets who you are talking about, he just was using the college scenario as another example.

I like the college exception, because guys can actually benefit in life from another year of school as well as getting to play the sport.

This makes zero sense for high school students. I'm not a life isn't fair, suck it up kind of guy, but unfortunately that attituded is needed in this scenario. There is just no reason you can give where this makes sense. I also think an extremely tiny % of any high school kids would take advantage of it. Unless there are academic issues or reasons and they struggled and can wipe out bad grades for new ones trying to get into college.

[XUGRAD80]

To MHettel's point, though, that still just screws over the class below (current juniors). Any effort to be "fair" is going to end up screwing someone.

How? They can repeat their junior year too..if they want to. Keep in mind that KY is a LOT different from many other states, population wise. To such a point that a 7th grader is eligible for Varsity. More often than not, the schools outside the major metro area (which are few) are playing junior HS students on varsity squads because of NEEDING them to fill out a roster. This law won’t restrict or hamper anyone’s opportunities, or will only enhance them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

What’s wrong with taking all electives? I had about a dozen extra credits before I graduated by taking electives in place of just taking study halls and gym class. I think my senior year I only had 2 required classes the rest were all electives. My daughter had 2-3 college credits by taking AP courses and then passing tests. My son did 1/2 school and co-opted his senior year, graduated HS and went right into the trade Union as an apprentice. 99% of the kids that played football in KY high schools last year played in front of only family, same with soccer, wrestling, basketball, swimming, etc. This law gives the kids that want to,the opportunity to come back, play on the team, get seen, and maybe win a scholarship. What’s wrong with that?

I went to a high school, where given the requirements (like must take 4 years of english, science, math etc) wouldn't have allowed for any of what you speak of. So wouldnt have worked for me. But theres nothing wrong with it per se, I just think it doesnt make a whole lot of sense (see post above for my opinion). Again I dont think it will be a big deal bc I think almost no one will do it (unless they need to academically).

[muskiefan82]

Imagine though, a junior who did really well, decides to repeat the junior year, but since they have already met the requirements, they take college courses through school instead or classes that will allow them to take Senior classes that provide college credit. They could really work this to their advantage and save massive $$ and time in college.

[GoMuskies]

How? They can repeat their junior year too..if they want to. Keep in mind that KY is a LOT different from many other states, population wise. To such a point that a 7th grader is eligible for Varsity. More often than not, the schools outside the major metro area (which are few) are playing junior HS students on varsity squads because of NEEDING them to fill out a roster. This law won’t restrict or hamper anyone’s opportunities, or will only enhance them.

I went to a high school in Kentucky where only freshmen and sophomores were allowed on JV teams. Juniors and seniors were varsity only. There was no academic reason for me to stay an extra year. Would have been a complete waste. But if a couple of players in the class ahead of me had decided to repeat their senior years, I absolutely would have lost MY senior season to the bench. So the junior class kids either have to spend an extra year they didn't want to spend in high school or risk losing a good chunk of their senior years to "repeaters". Again, someone gets screwed no matter what.

[XUGRAD80]

I think he gets who you are talking about, he just was using the college scenario as another example.

I like the college exception, because guys can actually benefit in life from another year of school as well as getting to play the sport.

This makes zero sense for high school students. I'm not a life isn't fair, suck it up kind of guy, but unfortunately that attituded is needed in this scenario. There is just no reason you can give where this makes sense. I also think an extremely tiny % of any high school kids would take advantage of it. Unless there are academic issues or reasons and they struggled and can wipe out bad grades for new ones trying to get into college.

It about OPPORTUNITIES.....

The opportunities for a student that struggled with home based schooling to repeat the year with no stigma, and attend in-person classes.
The opportunities for a student athlete to compete in front of college coaches and possibly win a scholarship.
The opportunities for students that missed out on other extracurricular activities, that were completely cancelled, to participate in them.

I literally can’t see a downside to this....which is probably why it passed the State Senate 36-0 and the House 92-5.

[xuwillie]

This is pretty dumb on so many levels

[XUGRAD80]

I went to a high school in Kentucky where only freshmen and sophomores were allowed on JV teams. Juniors and seniors were varsity only. There was no academic reason for me to stay an extra year. Would have been a complete waste. But if a couple of players in the class ahead of me had decided to repeat their senior years, I absolutely would have lost MY senior season to the bench. So the junior class kids either have to spend an extra year they didn't want to spend in high school or risk losing a good chunk of their senior years to "repeaters". Again, someone gets screwed no matter what.

So you only earned your playing time because some seniors left? You couldn’t beat them out? Sorry about your luck friend, but that’s not getting screwed, that’s just getting beat out. Or are you telling me that if when you were a senior that if they had a junior that was better than you, he would have sat because you were a senior? That doesn’t sound very “fair” to him.

[D-West & PO-Z]

It about OPPORTUNITIES.....

The opportunities for a student that struggled with home based schooling to repeat the year with no stigma, and attend in-person classes.
The opportunities for a student athlete to compete in front of college coaches and possibly win a scholarship.
The opportunities for students that missed out on other extracurricular activities, that were completely cancelled, to participate in them.

I literally can’t see a downside to this....which is probably why it passed the State Senate 36-0 and the House 92-5.

Academic reason are the only reason this makes any bit of sense whatsoever.

Any parent who let their kid repeat a year of high school bc they missed prom or senior skip day has a screw loose.

Also missing a year of your sport sucks (although didnt most sports play? They did in Ohio at least) but to repeat a whole year of school for some pipe dream of getting a scholarship to play sports in college is a little ridiculous. I know there is a small % of kids out there that probably missed out on showing enough for that scholarship, but that % is so miniscule. If you are really good enough the colleges would have seen you. If you arent or play a none revenue generating sport a lot of those you dont get much if any scholarship money anyway.

Again, I think its all a moot point anyway. The % of kids who do this is going to be incredibly small.

[GoMuskies]

So you only earned your playing time because some seniors left? You couldn’t beat them out? Sorry about your luck friend, but that’s not getting screwed, that’s just getting beat out.


Yeah, it's getting beat out by a guy a year older, which tends to happen in high school (particularly when you go to a school with 1300 boys). And I'm sure if there was a junior better than me my senior year he would have started over me. Yes, it would have been getting screwed for me, and it would be getting screwed for a lot of current juniors as well.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So you only earned your playing time because some seniors left? You couldn’t beat them out? Sorry about your luck friend, but that’s not getting screwed, that’s just getting beat out. Or are you telling me that if when you were a senior that if they had a junior that was better than you, he would have sat because you were a senior? That doesn’t sound very “fair” to him.

Ok this is laughable. You can't try and argue in favor of this ridiculous new rule and then use phrases to someone else about another situation "sorry about your luck friend".

[XUGRAD80]

I went to a high school, where given the requirements (like must take 4 years of english, science, math etc) wouldn't have allowed for any of what you speak of. So wouldnt have worked for me. But theres nothing wrong with it per se, I just think it doesnt make a whole lot of sense (see post above for my opinion). Again I dont think it will be a big deal bc I think almost no one will do it (unless they need to academically).

They expect it to be 5-10% of the eligible students, so no it’s not a big deal.....yet. But what if it catches on in lots of other states?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah, it's getting beat out by a guy a year older, which tends to happen in high school (particularly when you go to a school with 1300 boys). And I'm sure if there was a junior better than me my senior year he would have started over me. Yes, it would have been getting screwed for me, and it would be getting screwed for a lot of current juniors as well.

Exactly, I went to an all boys high school as well with similar numbers and its incredibly hard to start in your sport as a junior.

My youngest brother is a sophomore at OSU. Didn't get to play much except special teams as a junior in football, but started as a senior. He got interest from several DII/DII schools, including one that was to a very prestigious academic school he would have otherwise not been able to get in to. If he lost his senior year to this, my parents would have laughed him all the way to OSU if he suggested staying in high school for another year for just getting to play his senior year in football, or to go to prom etc.

[XUGRAD80]

Ok this is laughable. You can't try and argue in favor of this ridiculous new rule and then use phrases to someone else about another situation "sorry about your luck friend".

Sure I can..he was complaining that he would have sat on the bench his senior year if the seniors before him had come back. I ask.....is that any reason to deny THEM an opportunity to play in front of fans and coaches? Because it would effect YOUR playing time? That’s not getting screwed, and it’s not things being unfair if you can’t beat them out.

[GoMuskies]

Sure I can..he was complaining that he would have sat on the bench his senior year if the seniors before him had come back. I ask.....is that any reason to deny THEM an opportunity to play in front of fans and coaches? Because it would effect YOUR playing time? That’s not getting screwed, and it’s not things being unfair if you can’t beat them out.

YES! They're a year older! Our catcher went to Morehead State, our first baseman to Kentucky, our second baseman to Bellarmine, our SS to Louisville and our 3B to Indiana. Tough luck you couldn't beat them out when you were a year younger than them!

Now, we did have guys a class below me that broke into that lineup. One was Notre Dame's all time HR leader when he graduated and the other got drafted in the 5th round. Shame on me. Should have been as good as them.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Sure I can..he was complaining that he would have sat on the bench his senior year if the seniors before him had come back. I ask.....is that any reason to deny THEM an opportunity to play in front of fans and coaches? Because it would effect YOUR playing time? That’s not getting screwed, and it’s not things being unfair if you can’t beat them out.

There is no better phrase than "sorry bout your luck friend" (obviously there are nicer more empathetic phrases) for the high school seniors who missed out on opportunities they would have otherwise had if not for COVID.

It sucks, you feel bad for them, but there is zero reason (outside of academic reasons) to grant any of them an extra year in high school.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They expect it to be 5-10% of the eligible students, so no it’s not a big deal.....yet. But what if it catches on in lots of other states?

Of which I would guess an overwhelming % is due to academic issues and not missing your senior year sport, or Prom.

[XUGRAD80]

Exactly, I went to an all boys high school as well with similar numbers and its incredibly hard to start in your sport as a junior.

My youngest brother is a sophomore at OSU. Didn't get to play much except special teams as a junior in football, but started as a senior. He got interest from several DII/DII schools, including one that was to a very prestigious academic school he would have otherwise not been able to get in to. If he lost his senior year to this, my parents would have laughed him all the way to OSU if he suggested staying in high school for another year for just getting to play his senior year in football, or to go to prom etc.

I went to Roger Bacon when they had 1200 young men there. I taught and coached at Moeller after graduating from X. In BOTH cases there were underclassmen starting, or at least earning playing time, on many of the teams...including Basketball and Football....even though there were freshman, JV, and Varsity squads in almost every sport. Sometimes that meant that seniors either didn’t play, or even didn’t make the team.

But you know something.....those types of schools are the exception, not the norm, in most areas of this country. Most schools are much smaller and have limited squads that are exclusive to freshman or other underclassmen....especially on the girls side of the equation.

[MHettel]

I don’t think you’re getting that is is for HIGH SCHOOL students. Has no effect on any college students. What it does do is give someone in a KY High School the opportunity to actually play in front of coaches and be seen......if they come back for another year. It also gives all of the other students the opportunity to repeat this past year....for academic or athletic reasons...and then move on as they normally would do. There are thousands of high school athletes (beyond just basketball) that either didn’t get to compete, or if they did compete didn’t have the chance to impress college coaches and win a scholarship, because of COVID shutdowns.

Let’s do another scenario....say college A would love to give a kid a scholarship, but because of returning players or other reasons, they don’t have one open for next year. Perhaps they’ve already filled their quota. They can now tell that kid to STAY in HS, take AP courses (which may count for college credit in KY colleges), and come the following year. Like taking a year of Prep School, but without having to leave home or pay tuition to do so.

It may not effect the top 100 kids, but it sure as heck gives the rest of the kids an option they didn’t have before, and hopefully more opportunities.

I get it entirely. If a senior graduated but didn't get to play their sport, do they just play the sport the next year as a non-student or do they enroll as a student while they already have a degree? Which of these options make LESS sense???

And also, kids can ALREADY redo a hear of school. it's called FLUNKING! I don't get it. Can you "keep" the classes you passed and then just act like the ones you failed didn't happen and then you get a redo?

Just dumb. Again, is this REALLY what our govt should be focused on? Everything else is running so well that we prioritize THIS?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I also think the whole not getting to play in front of coaches thing is totally overblown. You and your coach send tapes to schools. Most of the kids who this would impact would be kids who wouldnt be playing in front of coaches anyway. When my brother was recruited by lower level schools it was all bc of tape. Same with the most kids/sports.

[XUGRAD80]

Well at least I got us off of how much Steele sucks, for at least a little while.

[MHettel]

Well at least I got us off of how much Steele sucks, for at least a little while.

Cheers!