What were your pre-season expectations?

[Drew]

My expectations were that we would have highs and lows and end up around the bubble. Despite missing over a month of practice/games we are just about on track to meet my expectations. I think some of you let the early season streak get your expectations a bit too high.

[GoMuskies]

That win over EKU in OT combined with the miracle win over Bradley really had me amped for the Final Four.

[Xavier]

My expectations were that we would be on the right side of the bubble. 9-11 seed territory.

[Xville]

Tournament bid, nothing less and nothing more

[JTG]

Same as every year since Staak, NCAA bid. Then go from there.

[drudy23]

Make the tournament.

[GIMMFD]

My expectations were that we would be on the right side of the bubble. 9-11 seed territory.

Yup, same, to be fair though I was expecting us to not be on the bubble and get in relatively comfortably.

[XUBison]

Oh goody, another thread admonishing fans for being disappointed that we kinda suck again.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My expectations were that we would have highs and lows and end up around the bubble. Despite missing over a month of practice/games we are just about on track to meet my expectations. I think some of you let the early season streak get your expectations a bit too high.

Make the tournament was my #1 expectation.

After some early season success someone posted a poll about where we would finish in the BE and I picked 4th, so we are a little below that expectation I had after the season started, but if we make the tourney that is my biggest expectation.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Oh goody, another thread admonishing fans for being disappointed that we kinda suck again.

You read that as admonishing???

[D-West & PO-Z]

I do think its fair for expectations of fans to change throughout a season.

Say you have a team you think might be rebuilding and just right on the outside of the tournament by end of the year.

If you start of the season great even start conference play pretty good, are looking likely to make the tournament and then have an epic collapse down the stretch to miss out, I don't think its fair to say to that fan who is massively frustrated/disappointed to say "hey, look at your preseason expectations, they ended up exactly where you thought they would be, no reason to complain!".

[AviatorX]

A Xavier Invitational Championship. So this has been a great season.

[xuphan]

A Xavier Invitational Championship. So this has been a great season.

1. Make the NCAA tournament. This is steels third year in charge with his players.

[XUBison]

You read that as admonishing???

I suppose that’s hyperbole, but it’s a message board, so whatever. I guess I don’t understand why some here keep beating this drum about fans tempering their expectations. I mean, that’s not what fans do. Maybe some here need to temper their expectation of a typical sports fan.

I guess I also disagree with the premise of the thread. Just because a fan has mediocre expectations of their favorite team at the outset doesn’t mean they have to be happy when their team only achieves those mediocre expectations. And to the point of your subsequent post, I agree completely that expectations can be fluid as a season progresses, as can the consequent level of disappointment.

If the point is to defend against criticism of Steele, I think it misses the mark. There is plenty of substance on both sides of that debate. For instance, the thread about missing upwards of 40 practices makes a much more meaningful and compelling case. But to watch people here have to repeatedly justify their disappointment to the wet blankets who keep tossing their expectations on otherwise passionate fans... yuck. JMHO.

[sgarcia]

I think I voted us to finish 6th in the BE this year so we are right about where I expected us to be which is the bubble.

[SkyWalker]

I think I picked us 5th pre-season. I also expected the Big East to be better overall than it has shown. I thought the tournament was probable but no guarantee and with the start we had a favorble seed seemed probable. But if you recall, that early success involved barely beating Bradley, a double overtime win vs EKU and two buzzer beaters against Marquette and Providence who obviously aren't the class of the Big East. Maybe the early wins gave us all false hopesb but the way we played against UC and Oklahoma sure was impressive.

[MHettel]

I expected this team to be better than last year. Like much better. I expected the returning players to improve. I expected the incoming players-- the freshmen and the transfers--- to have a role. I expected the departure of Naji and Goodin to actually be beneficial in getting the offense running.

BUT.....

Scruggs has brought it. Free has made positive steps forward, but still has not reached his (size and defense) potential. Carter.....I don't even know what to say about that disaster. I expected Tandy to start......or at least PLAY.

The Freshmen have been great, for the most part. Kunkle has had flashes, but the shooting % isn't where it needs to be. Johnson was great, then got injured. Griffin looks like a beast and had Covid and presumably related conditioning issues. Stanley went down before we could even see what he's capable of.

If we would have hit as much GOOD LUCK as we had of actual BAD LUCK, we'd be lined up for a top 3 seed.

Major disappointment. Carter and Steel both failed this year.

[markchal]

like many, I expected to comfortably make the tournament. However, after Kunkel was ruled eligible, we pounded Oklahoma, and Johnson was way better than advertised (great D AND literally one of the best shooters in the NCAA) my expectations changed.

[Xavier]

.

If we would have hit as much GOOD LUCK as we had of actual BAD LUCK, we'd be lined up for a top 3 seed.



Meh, we have a couple buzzer beaters and some big luck to beat bad teams. Maybe with injuries now it is more evened out.

[Dblue]

I wasn't nearly as optimistic as some at the preseason. With so few returning players, restricted summertime access to workouts, and a coach still adjusting the HC role - I expected an ugly loss to a low/mid major team, maybe a surprisewin and a surpriseloss, a .500 BE record and getting into the tournament as a bubble team.

As for the players: I expected Scruggs to step up and lead the team, Free to improve some, Stanley to provide some competitive support in the front court, Kunkle to sit, and Tandy to have a break out season.

Looking back, we aren't far off from what I expected, it's just a slightly different path than I envisioned.

[IM4X]

The standard has to be the standard at X... period! We can’t be a program that allows some new excuse every season as to why a team is not meeting that standard. Maybe a coach in his first year is a legit exception - beyond that - no excuses.

Minimum expectations for an X team ALWAYS must be to

1) Win 20+ games each season (this season is obviously an acceptation)
2) Win more than 50% of conference games
3) Make it into the top 25
3) Get at least to the semifinals in the BE tournament
4) Get into the dance -this is a must
5) Win at least one game in the tournament - this is very important so our players know the feeling

If a team and coaching staff can not meet these minimum expectations, then they are considered below the X standard. Period.

If they exceed those expectations by a little (25+ wins a season, 65% conference wins, get into top 15, get to championship game of BE Tourney, get to sweet sixteen or elite eight) then they are doing just fine as coaches and players.

Do even better (win 27+ games, 75%+ conference game wins, BE tournament champs and getting to a Final Four and beyond) and those X coaches and players become legends.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The standard has to be the standard at X... period! We can’t be a program that starts making excuses every season why a ream is not meeting that standard.

Minimum expectations for an X team ALWAYS must be to

1) Win 20+ games each season (this season is obviously an acceptation)
2) Win more than 50% of conference games
3) Make it into the top 25
3) Get at least to the semifinals in the BE tournament
4) Get into the dance
5) Win at least one game in the tournament

If a team and coaching staff can not meet these minimum expectations, then they are considered below the X standard. Period.

If they exceed those expectations by a little (25+ wins a season, 65% conference wins, get into top 15, get to championship game of BE Tourney, get to sweet sixteen or elite eight) then they are doing just fine as coaches and players.

Do even better (win 27+ games, 80%+ conference game wins, BE tournament champs and getting to a Final Four and beyond) and those X coaches and players become legends.

Some of those are kind of weird random minimum expections.

I think its pretty simple what they should be:

1. Make the tournament every year.
2. Advance in the tournament more often than not.

I could give a shit if we make the semi finals of the BE tourney or not if we are making the tournament and advancing most years. Unfortunately there are going to be years we dont win a tourney game. I am ok with that as long as that isnt every year. I think we should make it pretty much every year and most years advance.

[IM4X]

Some of those are kind of weird random minimum expections.

I think its pretty simple what they should be:

1. Make the tournament every year.
2. Advance in the tournament more often than not.

I could give a shit if we make the semi finals of the BE tourney or not if we are making the tournament and advancing most years. Unfortunately there are going to be years we dont win a tourney game. I am ok with that as long as that isnt every year. I think we should make it pretty much every year and most years advance.

I’m guessing you’ve never been to MSG for a BE tournament. Here is why it matters to me and why it should matter to you (and all X fans).

The teams that are consistently the best in a conference typically make it to the tournament semifinals and beyond on a regular basis. How often does Nova get there. How often does DePaul get there. Winners have a mind set of winning and when they win- they keep winning. It gives the winning team tremendous confidence and positive momentum for the NCAA tournament - teams that typically do better in the BE tournament go further in the MCAA tournament- at least that is the case with X.

Another part of why winning games in the BE tournament matters is that it is is the Crown Jewel of all conference tournaments and everyone knows it. It’s simply the best damn tournament in the best damn venue in the country - I have attend it for over 20 years now and let me tell you when your team advances in the BE tournament at MSG - there is no other feeling like it for the team and those fans who attend. Plus, the teams that advance and get to the semi finals and beyond get more media coverage. More media exposure - Do you know how many top recruits would be interested in playing for a team that not only plays but is expected to advance in the BE tournament at MSG?

Your fewer, simple expectations are fine, but they are likely tied to some of my additional ones (e.g. winning 50% of conference games, win 20 games).

Not sure I’m getting whIch other parts you are finding weird but I’ll be happy to share my thinking about those expectations as well.

[JTG]

I’m guessing you’ve never been to MSG for a BE tournament. Here is why it matters to me and why it should matter to you (and all X fans).

The teams that are consistently the best in a conference typically make it to the tournament semifinals and beyond on a regular basis. How often does Nova get there. How often does DePaul get there. Winners have a mind set of winning and when they win- they keep winning. It gives the winning team tremendous confidence and positive momentum for the NCAA tournament - teams that typically do better in the BE tournament go further in the MCAA tournament- at least that is the case with X.

Another part of why winning games in the BE tournament matters is that it is is the Crown Jewel of all conference tournaments and everyone knows it. It’s simply the best damn tournament in the best damn venue in the country - I have attend it for over 20 years now and let me tell you when your team advances in the BE tournament at MSG - there is no other feeling like it for the team and those fans who attend. Plus, the teams that advance and get to the semi finals and beyond get more media coverage. More media exposure - Do you know how many top recruits would be interested in playing for a team that not only plays but is expected to advance in the BE tournament at MSG?

Your fewer, simple expectations are fine, but they are likely tied to some of my additional ones (e.g. winning 50% of conference games, win 20 games).

Not sure I’m getting whIch other parts you are finding weird but I’ll be happy to share my thinking about those expectations as well.

How many NCAA tournament games have you attended, because winning in those venues is the ULTIMATE FEELING, not winning some conference money grab tournament. No one remembers who wins a conference tournament. The NCAA is be all and end all. And it should be expected of X every year.

[xudash]

I'm greedy: all of you are correct: winning in the BET and the NCAAT are important and valuable to the program.

The comments about the BET are spot on. Besides, if we run deep in the BET, chances are good that we're pretty good, and that such runs in New York will lead to bids in the NCAAT. This really shouldn't be about "either / or."

Ask UCONN if they believe deep runs in the BET can be good for a positive NCAAT outcome. They won a Natty that way.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I’m guessing you’ve never been to MSG for a BE tournament. Here is why it matters to me and why it should matter to you (and all X fans).

The teams that are consistently the best in a conference typically make it to the tournament semifinals and beyond on a regular basis. How often does Nova get there. How often does DePaul get there. Winners have a mind set of winning and when they win- they keep winning. It gives the winning team tremendous confidence and positive momentum for the NCAA tournament - teams that typically do better in the BE tournament go further in the MCAA tournament- at least that is the case with X.

Another part of why winning games in the BE tournament matters is that it is is the Crown Jewel of all conference tournaments and everyone knows it. It’s simply the best damn tournament in the best damn venue in the country - I have attend it for over 20 years now and let me tell you when your team advances in the BE tournament at MSG - there is no other feeling like it for the team and those fans who attend. Plus, the teams that advance and get to the semi finals and beyond get more media coverage. More media exposure - Do you know how many top recruits would be interested in playing for a team that not only plays but is expected to advance in the BE tournament at MSG?

Your fewer, simple expectations are fine, but they are likely tied to some of my additional ones (e.g. winning 50% of conference games, win 20 games).

Not sure I’m getting whIch other parts you are finding weird but I’ll be happy to share my thinking about those expectations as well.

I have been to the Mecca many times but only for Knicks games, unfortunately not for a BE tourney yet.

I get the draw and appeal of the tourney and I would love to win in and go far consistently, but it shouldnt be a minimum requirement for any Xavier coach. My point is if we advance in the NCAA tourney I am not upset about not advancing in the BE tourney.

[Xavier]

I do agree that the buzz around MSG is something else for the BET. You can feel it in the arena, you can feel it walking around the bars- seeing groups of fans of other teams etc. I highly recommend going...I went and it was awesome. Minus the fact that X got upset early when they were one of the best teams in the conference. I can only imagine what following them 3 days and winning the tournament would feel like.

Big East tournament success isn't a requirement though. I would much prefer to be better throughout the regular season, in NCAA tournament. I guess the Big East tournament trumps the early season one, though.

[IM4X]

How many NCAA tournament games have you attended, because winning in those venues is the ULTIMATE FEELING, not winning some conference money grab tournament. No one remembers who wins a conference tournament. The NCAA is be all and end all. And it should be expected of X every year.

Trust me, I know the feeling of being there for big games in the NCAA tournament. I got to see X upset Georgetown and their twin towers back during the Gillen era to advance to the sweet sixteen. I was also in Atlanta to see the elite eight game against Duke where X likely would have reached it’s first final four if not for two bogus calls late in the game against Anthony Myles which sent him out of the game and allowed Duke to climb back into the lead and sneak away with a victory. Trust me- I know how special tournament games can be.

There is no argument from me about expectations for X get into the NCAA tournament and advance. That was part of my minimum expectations. Nothing is more important than getting in and consistently advancing in that tournament... and some day soon getting over the hump to that final four and beyond.

Please though -don’t anyone who has not been to the BE tournament suggest that the BE tournament is nothing special. It is quite special to advance there’s and win it- Only 3 teams from the new BE have won it: Nova, Seton Hall and Providence, but it is as an electric atmosphere there and there is a good chance someone new will likely win it this year. Before X was in the BE, the tournament was always a battle and you never knew who would win: Syracuse, Pitt, Georgetown, St. John’s, Villanova, West Virginia, UConn, Boston College, Seton Hall and Providence and Louisville all won it. I can tell you those fans and players all remember the feeling of winning the BE tournament. I know I would be ecstatic if we won it. Hoping we can all experience it soon.

[xukeith]

Same as every year since Staak, NCAA bid. Then go from there.

Prosser, Mack and Miller all missed the Tourney at least once at X,

[IM4X]

I have been to the Mecca many times but only for Knicks games, unfortunately not for a BE tourney yet.

I get the draw and appeal of the tourney and I would love to win in and go far consistently, but it shouldnt be a minimum requirement for any Xavier coach. My point is if we advance in the NCAA tourney I am not upset about not advancing in the BE tourney.

I get your point and I agree that making the NCAA tournament makes not advancing in the BE tournament not feel so bad. I just feel that expecting to win games in the BE tournament (which is usually what we do anyway) also needs to be the norm... our standard... a tradition.

I’ve also seen the Knicks play when Patrick was their star player -as I lived in the city for over 15 years. I have to tell you is is not even close. The BE tournament is so much more thrilling the fans are so much more into to it and I think because it has been such a special event for so many years where all these amazing fans come together for this “win and advance” situation - it is so electric and just becomes like nothing else you’ve experienced- every Xavier fan must go and experience it! You will not be disappointed!

[markchal]

Prosser, Mack and Miller all missed the Tourney at least once at X,

and I think they would have called those disappointing seasons, rather than what's quickly becoming the norm under Steele

[IM4X]

I do agree that the buzz around MSG is something else for the BET. You can feel it in the arena, you can feel it walking around the bars- seeing groups of fans of other teams etc. I highly recommend going...I went and it was awesome. Minus the fact that X got upset early when they were one of the best teams in the conference. I can only imagine what following them 3 days and winning the tournament would feel like.

Big East tournament success isn't a requirement though. I would much prefer to be better throughout the regular season, in NCAA tournament. I guess the Big East tournament trumps the early season one, though.

Good assessment of the feeling for those at the BE tournament. Just being there with all the other BE fans is special. I can tell you when your team advances there and then advances again to play Nova in the championship game - like in 2015- it is an extra special feeling. You feel like you are part of an elite group. It is why we need to make it a tradition.

[IM4X]

I'm greedy: all of you are correct: winning in the BET and the NCAAT are important and valuable to the program.

The comments about the BET are spot on. Besides, if we run deep in the BET, chances are good that we're pretty good, and that such runs in New York will lead to bids in the NCAAT. This really shouldn't be about "either / or."

Ask UCONN if they believe deep runs in the BET can be good for a positive NCAAT outcome. They won a Natty that way.

Yep. Positive momentum is so important. Like when we went on to an elite eight in 2004 after almost not even getting into the tournament. We caught fire in the A 10 tournament, blowing the doors off of everyone including the #1 team in the nation- St Joe’s. Then we just kept steamrolling opponents until the “bogus fouls on Myles” game against Duke. Talk about players (especially Chalmers, Sato and Myles) being in a zone.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I get your point and I agree that masking the tournament makes not advancing in the BE tournament not feel as bad. I just feel expecting to win games in the BE tournament (which is usually what we do anyway) needs to be a standard/tradition too.

I’ve also seen the Knicks play when Patrick was their star player -as I lived in the city for over 15 years. I have to tell you is is not even close. The BE tournament is so much more thrilling the fans are so much more into to it and I think because it has been such a special event for so many years where all these amazing fans come together for this “win and advance” situation - it is so electric and just becomes like nothing else you’ve experienced- every Xavier fan must go and experience it! You will not be disappointed!

Yes I can imagine. I def want to go to BE tourney when I can. Life circumstances over the years have prevented it but hopefully soon.

[xuphan]

Some of those are kind of weird random minimum expections.

I think its pretty simple what they should be:

1. Make the tournament every year.
2. Advance in the tournament more often than not.

I could give a shit if we make the semi finals of the BE tourney or not if we are making the tournament and advancing most years. Unfortunately there are going to be years we dont win a tourney game. I am ok with that as long as that isnt every year. I think we should make it pretty much every year and most years advance.

I 100% feel the same way. It happens that the team can have a off night and lose early in the big east tournament. I do expect this team to be consistent and make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis with the occasional run in the tournament. Missing the tournament multiple years indicates that the program is unstable and changes are needed.

[GIMMFD]

Yes I can imagine. I def want to go to BE tourney when I can. Life circumstances over the years have prevented it but hopefully soon.

Same, would be a dream come true to catch X play in a storied place like MSG. I'm making plans to attend next years BET, hopefully we have much less stress than this year.

[GoMuskies]

The semis of the BET with Xavier in it is incredible. I was there to see X lose to SH. Game 1 was Providence/Villanova. It was an electric atmosphere for sure.

[AviatorX]

The semis of the BET with Xavier in it is incredible. I was there to see X lose to SH. Game 1 was Providence/Villanova. It was an electric atmosphere for sure.

Agreed. I wanted to take the contrarian view and call the BET at MSG overhyped. But it definitely is not. It's amazing and the rare thing that lives up to the hype. Almost as good as the A10 Tournament in Atlantic City.

[xukeith]

I thought X could fight for 3-4th place. Expectations were blown away after Oklahoma game,
Beat UC counts for something. Really impressed with the frosh. They will need to get stronger(Jones) use Scruggs moves(Wilcher), and get some dependable mid range game (Odom)

[xukeith]

Agreed. I wanted to take the contrarian view and call the BET at MSG overhyped. But it definitely is not. It's amazing and the rare thing that lives up to the hype. Almost as good as the A10 Tournament in Atlantic City.

Was Villanova the most represented by fans? I assume so. Have a guess as to how many X fans showed? 300?

[GoMuskies]

Was Villanova the most represented by fans? I assume so. Have a guess as to how many X fans showed? 300?

Villanova then Seton Hall then Providence in terms of fans. All had significant followings. Xavier was probably in the 1000 to 1500 range I would guess. Remember, though, that it was a year (2016) in which we were top 10 coming into the tournament (maybe top 5?), so Xavier fans probably traveled better than in years where expectations were a bit more modest.

[IM4X]

A ton of UConn fans would always show up at the BET back when they were part of the old BE- which makes sense as the school is rather close. I would imagine we’ll start seeing that being the case again in future years.

[BandAid]

Beat Dayton at home.

Oops! Sorry, wrong era.

But seriously, if we were to ever play Dayton in Cincinnati again, we better effin win

[xukeith]

contemplating on the status of X hoops....

How much damage did the poor recruiting class drop off after Scruggs and Marshall? Dontarius James........
Is that one piece of the puzzle to why 2021 is not a final 4 team?

[xu82]

I expected to sneak into the tournament. I’m wrong a lot.

[SM#24]

Not this

[XUGRAD80]

I had to take a break from the board, but now that the season is over, I’m back.

My expectations where that the team would struggle early while the new players got accustomed to play at the high major level. That the team would improve as the season went on, but would not finish above .500 in the BE. That they would be a tough team to beat by the end of the season.

They have not improved, they lost the last 3 critical games of the season, they are not a tough out. The players are still playing hard, but they haven’t become a better TEAM....who’s fault is that?

[HenryMuto]

Not this

I was just going to post this EXACT same thing

NOT THIS

[Muskie]

If I'm being honest, I wanted the team to be fun to watch again. Last year's squad was not fun for me to watch. The blackholes that the ball would seemingly go into on every possession. What I thought was selfish play and players who may have tuned out the staff. I, of course, wanted to make the tournament as well.

Looking bad, I got some of what I wished for, though it feels hollow this morning. This team, though frustrating, was fun to watch for various stretches of the season. Players had passion, we saw some young players start to come into their own. So in that respect, mission accomplished.

Missing the tournament dulls my enthusiasm quite a bit. I treat the Big East Tourney and NCAA Tourney the same way. All it takes is for a team to get hot and get a few breaks. Magic happens. I won't get to see that magic again this year from Xavier. Now excuse me while I go watch the XU/Arizona highlights for the millionth time.