Expectations......

[XUGRAD80]

We all WANT X to win championships, be a national power, and be considered one of the elite programs in college basketball. We all WANT that. But is it REALISTIC to EXPECT it, given the current status of the school and the realities of college basketball financing?

Here are some BE rankings to consider:

Marq (8)
Nova (10)
GTown (12)
Prov (20)
SJU (10)
UConn (41)
Creighton (51)
SHall (68)
X (73)
DePaul (80)
Butler (90)

(the number on the parentheses is the national rank)

and

UConn
Depaul
SJU
Marq
Shall
Creighton
Gtown
Nova
X
Butler
Prov.

Anyone care to guess what these rankings are based on? and I hope that y'all will see that X ranks 9th in both item.




( my next post will give you what they are and what the actual numbers are)

[Strange Brew]

Mine are great but I still find Pip annoying.

[XUGRAD80]

OK then for those that are interested, here's what they are and what the numbers are...

BE Basketball Budgets ( in millions of dollars)


Marquette 14.9
Nova 14.4
GTown 13.5
Prov 11.1
SJU 10.0
Uconn 9.3
Crei 8.6
SHall 7.4
X 7.3
Dpaul 6.8
Butler 5.7

Size of school enrollment

Uconn 31,000
Depaul 25,000
SJU 19,000
Marq 12,000
SHall 9,800
Creig 8,200
Gtown 6.800
Nova 6,400
X 4,500
Butler 4,200
Prov 3,900

one last ranking.......Dollars spent on BB per student

Prov 2,846
Nova 2,250
Gtown 1,985
X 1,644
Butler 1,357
Marq 1,242
Crei 1,049
SH 765
SJU 526
UConn 300
DePaul 272


NOW THEN

I'll let you ponder these numbers and try to figure out what they all mean, maybe nothing at all. But my feeling is that many here need to remember (or maybe just don't know it) that Xavier is a small university that doesn't have near the budget of most of the schools it is trying to compete with and beat on a regular basis, just in the BE. It's annual budget ranks just barely in the top 75 in the whole country. The top 10 nationally look like a who's who of the bluebloods ........Duke, KY, UofL, Florida State, Alabama, TCU (huh?), UCLA, Marquette, Syracuse, Nova. (Looking at that, if I was a part of the Marquette administration I'd be wondering what is going on?)

In conclusion I want to point out that there are ASPERIATIONS, and then there are EXPECTATIONS. Don't let them get confused, and don't let your expectations get beyond the other. I would hope that Xavier always aspires to greatness. However, I think it is a legitimate question to wonder if some expectations are now based upon earlier overachievement on the part of the university and its BB program? Overachievement when based upon the dollars spent in relation to what others spend, that is. Xavier ranks 9th in size, and ranks 9th in budget...but we want them to be #1 in the BB Standings. Should that be an asperation or an expectation?

[Strange Brew]

OK then for those that are interested, here's what they are and what the numbers are...

BE Basketball Budgets ( in millions of dollars)


Marquette 14.9
Nova 14.4
GTown 13.5
Prov 11.1
SJU 10.0
Uconn 9.3
Crei 8.6
SHall 7.4
X 7.3
Dpaul 6.8
Butler 5.7

Size of school enrollment

Uconn 31,000
Depaul 25,000
SJU 19,000
Marq 12,000
SHall 9,800
Creig 8,200
Gtown 6.800
Nova 6,400
X 4,500
Butler 4,200
Prov 3,900

one last ranking.......Dollars spent on BB per student

Prov 2,846
Nova 2,250
Gtown 1,985
X 1,644
Butler 1,357
Marq 1,242
Crei 1,049
SH 765
SJU 526
UConn 300
DePaul 272


NOW THEN

I'll let you ponder these numbers and try to figure out what they all mean, maybe nothing at all. But my feeling is that many here need to remember (or maybe just don't know it) that Xavier is a small university that doesn't have near the budget of most of the schools it is trying to compete with and beat on a regular basis, just in the BE. It's annual budget ranks just barely in the top 75 in the whole country. The top 10 nationally look like a who's who of the bluebloods ........Duke, KY, UofL, Florida State, Alabama, TCU (huh?), UCLA, Marquette, Syracuse, Nova. (Looking at that, if I was a part of the Marquette administration I'd be wondering what is going on?)

In conclusion I want to point out that there are ASPERIATIONS, and then there are EXPECTATIONS. Don't let them get confused, and don't let your expectations get beyond the other. I would hope that Xavier always aspires to greatness. However, I think it is a legitimate question to wonder if some expectations are now based upon earlier overachievement on the part of the university and its BB program? Overachievement when based upon the dollars spent in relation to what others spend, that is. Xavier ranks 9th in size, and ranks 9th in budget...but we want them to be #1 in the BB Standings. Should that be an asperation or an expectation?

Aren’t there private trusts setup for the coach’s at X? Are those $’s included?

[AviatorX]

Did the investment in basketball decrease in the last 3 years? If not, then who cares about these numbers? Xavier right now is clearly under performing its own expectations. There's no outside comparison really needed to drive that home.

[XUGRAD80]

These are the numbers reported by the schools. Have to figure that if they have such a program at X, they have it at other schools. If you start worrying about that though, then you have to start dissecting how much of the budget goes into what category....salaries, recruiting, travel, scholarships (obviously tuition/room and board is not equal in every school), player and family compensation (at least for some schools that really matters. :) ), arena rental. In addition, does every school figure and report their budgets the same? Probably not. Statistics are never cut and dry. Figures lie and liars figure is an old saying that has some validity.

[bleedXblue]

Did the investment in basketball decrease in the last 3 years? If not, then who cares about these numbers? Xavier right now is clearly under performing its own expectations. There's no outside comparison really needed to drive that home.

exactly my perspective as well

[Xavier]

My expectation for Xavier basketball is to make the tournament every year and most years be a top 4 team in the Big East. I think the tournament is a little more unpredictable- but if X is typically a top 3 or 4 team in the Big East the tournament runs will come.

[XUGRAD80]

Did the investment in basketball decrease in the last 3 years? If not, then who cares about these numbers? Xavier right now is clearly under performing its own expectations. There's no outside comparison really needed to drive that home.

OR...was X overachieving during that period based on their budget in comparison to others?

Explain to me WHY a BE championship and #1 seed in the NCAA tournament should be an “expectation”? Is it because it has happened ONE TIME in the 100 year history of the X program that it NOW becomes the expectation? Would it now then be the expectation at Butler that they go to the NC game every year, because they did it 2 years in a row? As they say in financial circles.....”past performance is no guarantee of future success and investments carry some risk”.

[XUGRAD80]

My expectation for Xavier basketball is to make the tournament every year and most years be a top 4 team in the Big East. I think the tournament is a little more unpredictable- but if X is typically a top 3 or 4 team in the Big East the tournament runs will come.

What are those expectations based upon?

[JTG]

Only UCONN, X, and Butler have their own arenas. The rest play in public buildings, with, I imagine, some pretty high dollar rent. What in the hell is Providence spending money on ? Pre Covid, I believe X was making money on bball. How many of these other schools were ? You listed money spent, not ROI.
I don't think any of us want to go back to the pre-Staak days of being "guaranteed win night " for other schools. I expect to be in the tournament every year, and I expect to get to the Final Four some day. You're wrong about overachievement. What Butler did is massive overachievement. What X has done is controlled growth with a definitive goal in mind, FF. Come Selection Sunday, if we don't get in, I won't be disappointed, I'll be pissed. BTW, what do Marquette and Gtown, Prov and ST J have to show for all that money spent in the last 10 yrs ?

[Strange Brew]

OR...was X overachieving during that period based on their budget in comparison to others?

Explain to me WHY a BE championship and #1 seed in the NCAA tournament should be an “expectation”? Is it because it has happened ONE TIME in the 100 year history of the X program that it NOW becomes the expectation? Would it now then be the expectation at Butler that they go to the NC game every year, because they did it 2 years in a row? As they say in financial circles.....”past performance is no guarantee of future success and investments carry some risk”.

Wasn’t X also a 2 seed recently?

[AviatorX]

OR...was X overachieving during that period based on their budget in comparison to others?

Explain to me WHY a BE championship and #1 seed in the NCAA tournament should be an “expectation”? Is it because it has happened ONE TIME in the 100 year history of the X program that it NOW becomes the expectation? Would it now then be the expectation at Butler that they go to the NC game every year, because they did it 2 years in a row? As they say in financial circles.....”past performance is no guarantee of future success and investments carry some risk”.

By that logic, why did Xavier even build the Cintas Center or move to the BE? The whole program is built on having overachieved to a point where that level of success is possible. We've been past the scrappy underdog role for 15+ years at this point.

Do I expect Xavier to win the BE and be a #1 seed annually? Absolutely not. I think Xavier should make the tournament every season without question and be seeded to make the second weekend in at least a third of those appearances. That is not too much to ask if you look at the talent that comes into the program. I think you could argue the reality should be better than that.

If you play in a power conference, have solid facilities, pay a coach a relatively high end salary and routinely bring in top ranked recruiting classes than what the hell are we pointing to budgets for?

[SM#24]

OK, got it.
X wins - hey look at us, the little engine that could; aren't we cute !
X loses - well, what did you expect considering who we are

[Xavier]

What are those expectations based upon?

Previous years and the direction of the program. Before Steele I think X had made the tournament 15 of the previous 17 seasons. In regards to the Big East, Mack finished 4th or better 3/5 years, with one of those years he didn't- he took X to the elite 8. To be honest, I don't think making the tournament bar is high. I expected Xavier to be one of the premier teams in the Big East with Villanova, but that expectation has fallen to just being a top 4 team. I think the Big East has been slightly better than I thought + X isn't as strong of a program as I thought...so I changed expectations.

[Xville]

By that logic, why did Xavier even build the Cintas Center or move to the BE? The whole program is built on having overachieved to a point where that level of success is possible. We've been past the scrappy underdog role for 15+ years at this point.

Do I expect Xavier to win the BE and be a #1 seed annually? Absolutely not. I think Xavier should make the tournament every season without question and be seeded to make the second weekend in at least a third of those appearances. That is not too much to ask if you look at the talent that comes into the program. I think you could argue the reality should be better than that.

If you play in a power conference, have solid facilities, pay a coach a relatively high end salary and routinely bring in top ranked recruiting classes than what the hell are we pointing to budgets for?


+1000000000 This size of the school and their budget discussion is silly....what is going to be our next excuse for Travis and how the program is performing? good grief. Maybe next we can blame climate change, who is the us president, the crime rate.

[UCGRAD4X]

OK then for those that are interested, here's what they are and what the numbers are...

BE Basketball Budgets ( in millions of dollars)
Marquette 14.9
Nova 14.4
GTown 13.5
Prov 11.1
SJU 10.0
Uconn 9.3
Crei 8.6
SHall 7.4
X 7.3
Dpaul 6.8
Butler 5.7

Size of school enrollment
Uconn 31,000
Depaul 25,000
SJU 19,000
Marq 12,000
SHall 9,800
Creig 8,200
Gtown 6.800
Nova 6,400
X 4,500
Butler 4,200
Prov 3,900

NOW THEN

I'll let you ponder these numbers and try to figure out what they all mean, maybe nothing at all. But my feeling is that many here need to remember (or maybe just don't know it) that Xavier is a small university that doesn't have near the budget of most of the schools it is trying to compete with and beat on a regular basis, just in the BE. It's annual budget ranks just barely in the top 75 in the whole country. The top 10 nationally look like a who's who of the bluebloods ........Duke, KY, UofL, Florida State, Alabama, TCU (huh?), UCLA, Marquette, Syracuse, Nova. (Looking at that, if I was a part of the Marquette administration I'd be wondering what is going on?)


Interesting information. I admire your work and ability to compile such information. Kudos.

With that, Nova is a nearly equally small school that has a hugely disparate budget, so I'm not sure how much the fact that X is a small school holds water.

My guess is that a great deal of that is coaches salaries - justifiably so.

Marquette is much larger and spends the most. How do their results compare to Xavier's? How would you compare the expectations at Marquette aside from $$$?

[drudy23]

Did the investment in basketball decrease in the last 3 years? If not, then who cares about these numbers? Xavier right now is clearly under performing its own expectations. There's no outside comparison really needed to drive that home.

Agree

[drudy23]

By that logic, why did Xavier even build the Cintas Center or move to the BE? The whole program is built on having overachieved to a point where that level of success is possible. We've been past the scrappy underdog role for 15+ years at this point.

Do I expect Xavier to win the BE and be a #1 seed annually? Absolutely not. I think Xavier should make the tournament every season without question and be seeded to make the second weekend in at least a third of those appearances. That is not too much to ask if you look at the talent that comes into the program. I think you could argue the reality should be better than that.

If you play in a power conference, have solid facilities, pay a coach a relatively high end salary and routinely bring in top ranked recruiting classes than what the hell are we pointing to budgets for?


+1000000000 This size of the school and their budget discussion is silly....what is going to be our next excuse for Travis and how the program is performing? good grief. Maybe next we can blame climate change, who is the us president, the crime rate.

Exactly - so many damn excuses.

[drudy23]

It has been absolutely proven that the school and administration provides the resources necessary for success in the basketball program. They're the only game in town (no football) and the top dog when it comes to budgets. They fly private, consistently upgrade facilities, and are in the Big East. They maximize their investment in basketball - not much else you can ask for except a blank check whenever you need it.

[XUGRAD80]

It is seeming to fall into the camps of...

We bring in high talent.....others don’t?
We play in a nice arena....others don’t?
We are in a big time conference.....others don’t?
We pay nice salaries.....others don’t?

Other schools in the BE do what Xavier does year in and year out, and many have been doing it since the days that Xavier was the big dog in the MCC. You want to base it on history? Well then...Villanova, UConn, Marquette, and Georgetown have all been national champions since those days. Providence, Butler, SJU, and Butler have all been Final 4 participants. Only one person here has had the honesty to say that the BE was better than they thought it was, and that Xavier may not be quite as good as they thought they were. Since joining the BE their league records have been:
10-8
9-9
14-4
9-9
15-3
9-9
9-9
4-4 (current)

4 years of 9-9, 1 year of 10-8, out of 7 years! What great history? Based on that you have to consider the 14-4 and 15-3 years to be Abnormal and something around .500 to be the norm.

I don’t really expect to change many minds here. Those minds are made up and no amount of fact is going to sway their preconceived notions of reality. (You’d think I was attacking their belief in Santa Claus!) But I am hoping that there might be one or two who are willing to step back into reality and take an honest look at their favorite school, and to compare it to its competition. To really evaluate if their expectations are based on facts or fiction. I am not in anyway saying that Xavier is any longer the little engine that could or that X should be looking backwards, I’m only saying that it’s time for some to realize that X is no longer the big fish in a small pool. In fact, if you compare size of school and amount of budget, they are a small fish in a pack of big fish...who all want to eat them. So far they have held their own, and they haven’t gotten eaten. They’ve even eaten a few of the big fish at times. But IMO to EXPECT that is not reasonable.

Q....does the amount of budget matter (Marquette) more than who is at the helm (Butler) when it comes to tournament achievement?
A....it’s great when you have BOTH (Villanova)

Q....does Xavier have either?
A....to be determined

[drudy23]

It is seeming to fall into the camps of...

We bring in high talent.....others don’t?
We play in a nice arena....others don’t?
We are in a big time conference.....others don’t?
We pay nice salaries.....others don’t?

Other schools in the BE do what Xavier does year in and year out, and many have been doing it since the days that Xavier was the big dog in the MCC. You want to base it on history? Well then...Villanova, UConn, Marquette, and Georgetown have all been national champions since those days. Providence, Butler,
SJU, and Butler have all been Final 4 participants. Only one person here has had the honesty to say that the BE was better than they thought it was, and that Xavier may not be quite as good as they thought they were.

I don’t really expect to change many minds here. Those minds are made up and no amount of fact is going to sway their preconceived notions of reality. (You’d think I was attacking their belief in Santa Claus!) But I am hoping that there might be one or two who are willing to step back into reality and take an honest look at their favorite school, and to compare it to its competition. To really evaluate if their expectations are based on facts or fiction. I am not in anyway saying that Xavier is any longer the little engine that could or that X should be looking backwards, I’m only saying that it’s time for some to realize that X is no longer the big fish in a small pool. In fact, if you compare size of school and amount of budget, they are a small fish in a pack of big fish...who all want to eat them.

Q....does the amount of budget matter (Marquette) more than who is at the helm (Butler) when it comes to tournament achievement?
A....it’s great when you have BOTH (Villanova)

Q....does Xavier have either?
A....to be determined

They purpose of joining the Big East wasn't to dominate, it was to elevate. Hasn't happened yet - that doesn't mean it won't. But the right people need to be in place. At the end of the day, it's about decisions.

[xuphan]

It has been absolutely proven that the school and administration provides the resources necessary for success in the basketball program. They're the only game in town (no football) and the top dog when it comes to budgets. They fly private, consistently upgrade facilities, and are in the Big East. They maximize their investment in basketball - not much else you can ask for except a blank check whenever you need it.

My expectations are for this team to make it to the NCAA tournament every year and on occasion make a run in the tournament. I remember several years ago from posters on here that the A-10 was the only thing keeping Xavier from becoming a powerhouse. Even so, Sean Miller with the same resources and being in a lower league was able to recruit very well and get his teams into the tournament year after year. My expectations for Steele is to recruit better now that Xavier is in the Big East and make it to the NCAA tournament like Marta, Miller, and Mack have done. Like each of these former coaches, I had no problem giving him a a couple of years to learn the ropes even if it meant not making the NCAA tournament as he worked on improving his coaching and got his players in. Steele has met my expectations for recruiting as he has don’t a pretty good job so far bring in highly rated players. However, his coaching skills have not improved since he has taken over. This team continues to not play very good defense and Naji ball continues to be the focus of the offense. This may lead to this team missing the NCAA tournament again which isn’t acceptable based on how many years Steele has been here. Still can’t believe we lost to St. John’s. The university is not in a place financially to fire any coach but Steele is not living up to my reasonable expectations that I have for the team of routinely making the NCAA tournament. Recruiting well is great and everything but it doesn’t mean it will get us to the NCAA tournament. Just ask Coach K this year.

[whopper]

At this stage after 52 years of final 4(first memory was UCLA -Dayton and i loved donnie may) I just want good basketball. When my daughters started in 2013-4, they made a play in game. Then a sweet 16 wih Stainbrook and frosh Trev and JP(and omara), then the Wisc year(:, the Arizona year:), the #1 seed year (damn fSU) and i thought the core 4 would keep it going. They came closer than you think to making both years(none anyway last) but gillespie fake charge and Baldwin 3(after NZE illigal screen) cost them. This was a clean slate and so screwy with the early wins(one close), the immediate add of Kunkel and Stanley(who on a per min basis performed well) and now these delays and poor D. I can ride it out and I just want to see good basketball. I even root for other Big East teams in nonX games. We were spoiled and i hope can be spoiled again. As i tell my wife (when something bad happens) "the other teams wants to win too!" Still enjoying my 2 X girls, Bellarmine Wedding(maybe another) and maybe a move to Cinci if grandkids come.

[XUGRAD80]

My expectations are for this team to make it to the NCAA tournament every year and on occasion make a run in the tournament. I remember several years ago from posters on here that the A-10 was the only thing keeping Xavier from becoming a powerhouse. Even so, Sean Miller with the same resources and being in a lower league was able to recruit very well and get his teams into the tournament year after year. My expectations for Steele is to recruit better now that Xavier is in the Big East and make it to the NCAA tournament like Marta, Miller, and Mack have done. Like each of these former coaches, I had no problem giving him a a couple of years to learn the ropes even if it meant not making the NCAA tournament as he worked on improving his coaching and got his players in. Steele has met my expectations for recruiting as he has don’t a pretty good job so far bring in highly rated players. However, his coaching skills have not improved since he has taken over. This team continues to not play very good defense and Naji ball continues to be the focus of the offense. This may lead to this team missing the NCAA tournament again which isn’t acceptable based on how many years Steele has been here. Still can’t believe we lost to St. John’s. The university is not in a place financially to fire any coach but Steele is not living up to my reasonable expectations that I have for the team of routinely making the NCAA tournament. Recruiting well is great and everything but it doesn’t mean it will get us to the NCAA tournament. Just ask Coach K this year.

This is NOT meant to be a discussion about the current COACH. There’s a whole other thread(s) dedicated to that. I had hoped that this thread would concentrate more on the PROGRAM and the SCHOOL and compare those to the others in the BE. Sure, the coach is part of the program, a vital part. But only in very rare instances can a coach make up for other deficiencies. Butler is certainly an example where an outstanding coach can elevate a school for a short time. Dwayne Wade is an example of where a player can elevate a program for a short time. Xavier has had a string of good coaches, but has also in the past has seen fit to invest financially in their program at a higher level than the conference norm. That is no longer the case. Xavier now lags far behind many in the conference, in fact they are spending 1/2 what a couple of the other schools are. I found an article that stated that in the 2013-2014 season the Xavier budget was 5.2 million, so it has increased some since then. Has it increased enough to keep pace with others in the conference? Does it need to?

[drudy23]

This is NOT meant to be a discussion about the current COACH. There’s a whole other thread(s) dedicated to that. I had hoped that this thread would concentrate more on the PROGRAM and the SCHOOL and compare those to the others in the BE. Sure, the coach is part of the program, a vital part. But only in very rare instances can a coach make up for other deficiencies. Butler is certainly an example where an outstanding coach can elevate a school for a short time. Dwayne Wade is an example of where a player can elevate a program for a short time. Xavier has had a string of good coaches, but has also in the past has seen fit to invest financially in their program at a higher level than the conference norm. That is no longer the case. Xavier now lags far behind many in the conference, in fact they are spending 1/2 what a couple of the other schools are. I found an article that stated that in the 2013-2014 season the Xavier budget was 5.2 million, so it has increased some since then. Has it increased enough to keep pace with others in the conference? Does it need to?

I'd be interested to know if most of the budget differences are coaches salaries, and everything else is relatively similar (recruiting, facilities, etc).

If that's true, we likely will always have an up and comer, but that coach will have access to all the things to be successful. Head coach hiring in that scenario is crucial. You can't get it wrong.

[xuphan]

This is NOT meant to be a discussion about the current COACH. There’s a whole other thread(s) dedicated to that. I had hoped that this thread would concentrate more on the PROGRAM and the SCHOOL and compare those to the others in the BE. Sure, the coach is part of the program, a vital part. But only in very rare instances can a coach make up for other deficiencies. Butler is certainly an example where an outstanding coach can elevate a school for a short time. Dwayne Wade is an example of where a player can elevate a program for a short time. Xavier has had a string of good coaches, but has also in the past has seen fit to invest financially in their program at a higher level than the conference norm. That is no longer the case. Xavier now lags far behind many in the conference, in fact they are spending 1/2 what a couple of the other schools are. I found an article that stated that in the 2013-2014 season the Xavier budget was 5.2 million, so it has increased some since then. Has it increased enough to keep pace with others in the conference? Does it need to?

The current and former coaches play a part in the investment no? The success of the team influences investment from the university via endorsement deals, sponsors, merchandise, etc. The more success this team has the more money that is put into the program. Do you want the university to raise student tuition to put more money into the basketball program? I don’t!

[AviatorX]

It is seeming to fall into the camps of...

We bring in high talent.....others don’t?
We play in a nice arena....others don’t?
We are in a big time conference.....others don’t?
We pay nice salaries.....others don’t?

Other schools in the BE do what Xavier does year in and year out, and many have been doing it since the days that Xavier was the big dog in the MCC. You want to base it on history? Well then...Villanova, UConn, Marquette, and Georgetown have all been national champions since those days. Providence, Butler, SJU, and Butler have all been Final 4 participants. Only one person here has had the honesty to say that the BE was better than they thought it was, and that Xavier may not be quite as good as they thought they were. Since joining the BE their league records have been:
10-8
9-9
14-4
9-9
15-3
9-9
9-9
4-4 (current)

4 years of 9-9, 1 year of 10-8, out of 7 years! What great history? Based on that you have to consider the 14-4 and 15-3 years to be Abnormal and something around .500 to be the norm.

I don’t really expect to change many minds here. Those minds are made up and no amount of fact is going to sway their preconceived notions of reality. (You’d think I was attacking their belief in Santa Claus!) But I am hoping that there might be one or two who are willing to step back into reality and take an honest look at their favorite school, and to compare it to its competition. To really evaluate if their expectations are based on facts or fiction. I am not in anyway saying that Xavier is any longer the little engine that could or that X should be looking backwards, I’m only saying that it’s time for some to realize that X is no longer the big fish in a small pool. In fact, if you compare size of school and amount of budget, they are a small fish in a pack of big fish...who all want to eat them. So far they have held their own, and they haven’t gotten eaten. They’ve even eaten a few of the big fish at times. But IMO to EXPECT that is not reasonable.

Q....does the amount of budget matter (Marquette) more than who is at the helm (Butler) when it comes to tournament achievement?
A....it’s great when you have BOTH (Villanova)

Q....does Xavier have either?
A....to be determined

I am probably in the minority here, but I really don't care about conference record, outside of winning the league, which is obviously never going to be an every year fact of life for us in the BE like it had become in the A10. If we aren't in the hunt to win the title, there's no difference to me between 11-7 and 9-9, for example (other than eventual NCAAT seeding). It's all about March for me.

Is your argument basically that the last 15 years X was overachieving and now we're about where we should be? I'm not sure anyone is following the point you're trying to make.

[xavierj]

My expectation has and always will be making the tournament every year, finish in the top 4 in the conference and some years challenge for the top spot. Getting to the 2nd weekend and at some point a final 4. Xavier with its history, facilities and location should have no reason not to share those same expectations. I think the only thing that hurts Xavier is also it’s location. While Cincinnati is a decent city and fairly easy to get to with good talent close but t’s also right in the middle of a ton of high major programs. Because of that Xavier has to be more creative with recruiting and also branch out. So many times they are in early on a solid guy and then they get beat out by Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Louisville and even Kentucky. Makes it tough. If Travis can land some of those guys they get in on early and they stick once they blow up, it would make things much easier.

[XUGRAD80]

I'd be interested to know if most of the budget differences are coaches salaries, and everything else is relatively similar (recruiting, facilities, etc).

If that's true, we likely will always have an up and comer, but that coach will have access to all the things to be successful. Head coach hiring in that scenario is crucial. You can't get it wrong.

D...so true

Marquette has shown that even if you have a huge budget (#8 in the country for them!), that is still the case. Butler has shown that even without a huge budget, that if you get the right head coach with the right players, you can still accomplish a lot.

My original hope was that I’d get some people to look at what SHOULD have been their realistic expectations coming into this season (even without COVID). We had the same head coach we had for 2 years prior. We had lost our top scorer and rebounder. We had 7 new players on the roster, and only 1 true senior. The other schools had all been upping their games over the last couple of years, even DePaul seemed to be much improved. The national talking heads all had X picked anywhere from 6-9 in the league and a bubble team at best for the tourney. I understand people disappointment with how this season has gone, but I don’t understand their SURPRISE. When they were 11-1 I was extremely happy. When they beat Oklahoma easily I was shocked and ecstatic. But I said way back when before the season that I would not be surprised if they didn’t finish .500 in the conference this year. I saw 3-4 schools that would most likely beat X twice and I didn’t see any school that I thought X would surely beat twice. I thought .500 was probably a reasonable expectation for this year.

Doesn’t mean that I would be satisfied, or that I didn’t aspire to much better things out of the team. Doesn’t mean I’m happy with how they played the last 2 years, or last 2 games. But I’m not surprised by it either. My expectations have been lowered by the last few years...my aspirations are as high as ever.

I’m not convinced that it’s totally the head coach that is a problem though, and I do feel that in today’s college basketball world there are financial inequalities that are real problems for X to overcome. Not all of the 13-15 million dollar difference between a Duke or a KY budget and a Xavier budget is coaching salaries. Nor do I believe that all of the 7 million dollars difference between the Nova and the Xavier budget is Jay Wrights salary. So, if they are all flying 1st class and staying in 1st class hotels, are eating the same food, have uniforms and gear all supplied by the same kind of companies, etc., then what are the differences in where they are spending money?

[markchal]

My expectation is to continue to produce the level of success we've seen over the past few decades, where our teams get progressively better and make the NCAA tournament, sometimes win a game , make a 2nd weekend run every 3 or so years. And I expect our coaches to improve too, even if that means losing them to better jobs every 6-8 years.

I also expect our fans to hold the program accountable to the level of success it set for itself, instead of whining about resources and enrollment when the program endures a down point with a coach and AD that aren't living up to their predecessors.

[boozehound]

My expectation has and always will be making the tournament every year, finish in the top 4 in the conference and some years challenge for the top spot. Getting to the 2nd weekend and at some point a final 4. Xavier with its history, facilities and location should have no reason not to share those same expectations.

I think this is a pretty reasonable expectation, and definitely one that is not being met currently.



I think the only thing that hurts Xavier is also it’s location. While Cincinnati is a decent city and fairly easy to get to with good talent close but t’s also right in the middle of a ton of high major programs. Because of that Xavier has to be more creative with recruiting and also branch out. So many times they are in early on a solid guy and then they get beat out by Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Louisville and even Kentucky. Makes it tough. If Travis can land some of those guys they get in on early and they stick once they blow up, it would make things much easier.

This was my major issue with Mack's recruiting. We were always 'in the top 3' for high level recruit who ended up going to Michigan, IU, Kentucky, etc. It seemed like we spent a lot of time recruiting kids that weren't ever really going to come to X. Our current strategy seems to involve heavily recruiting NJ and the Northeast, which isn't a bad idea. Lots of talent and fewer local blue bloods.

[drudy23]

We somehow went from Final Four expectations to giving all kinds of excuses for 3 years of blah.

[XUGRAD80]

I am probably in the minority here, but I really don't care about conference record, outside of winning the league, which is obviously never going to be an every year fact of life for us in the BE like it had become in the A10. If we aren't in the hunt to win the title, there's no difference to me between 11-7 and 9-9, for example (other than eventual NCAAT seeding). It's all about March for me.

Is your argument basically that the last 15 years X was overachieving and now we're about where we should be? I'm not sure anyone is following the point you're trying to make.

I’m not trying to make any one point, or sway people toward one way of thinking at all, but....

I just thought it would be good for some to have a reality check when it comes to how much X spends on BB and how small the school really is. Maybe take their sense of Entitlement down a notch or two. Maybe when they see that other BE schools are outspending X by upwards of 7 million dollars a year they will realize that those schools want it just as bad as X does, maybe even more.

[AviatorX]

I’m not trying to make any one point, or sway people toward one way of thinking at all, but....

I just thought it would be good for some to have a reality check when it comes to how much X spends on BB and how small the school really is. Maybe take their sense of Entitlement down a notch or two. Maybe when they see that other BE schools are outspending X by upwards of 7 million dollars a year they will realize that those schools want it just as bad as X does, maybe even more.

It seems like your reality check is measured against those who expect to be in the Top 10 of every AP poll and bring in 5 star recruits. I don't think anyone expects that. Where X is in the landscape of college basketball spending is totally reasonable for the expectation of making the tournament every year. That's the minimum.

[94GRAD]

The current and former coaches play a part in the investment no? The success of the team influences investment from the university via endorsement deals, sponsors, merchandise, etc. The more success this team has the more money that is put into the program. Do you want the university to raise student tuition to put more money into the basketball program? I don’t!

Since the opening of the Cintas Center, the academic side hasn't subsidized the athletic side one cent.

[xavierj]

We somehow went from Final Four expectations to giving all kinds of excuses for 3 years of blah.

We did? I am also not sure that any coach or people who make decisions at Xavier have ever had final 4 expectations. That may be part of the problem.

[drudy23]

I am also not sure that any coach or people who make decisions at Xavier have ever had final 4 expectations. That may be part of the problem.

We've been one game away 3 times. Of course it's a realistic expectation.

[XUGRAD80]

We've been one game away 3 times. Of course it's a realistic expectation.

It’s a realist “aspiration”.

At this point I don’t have any reason to realistically expect that it will happen. Just because they got close in the past. In the same way, just because X has never made it, we shouldn’t say they can’t. I look at the current roster and I don’t see that they have the talent to make a final 4, so I don’t expect them to do so. I expect them to try. That’s all I can realistically expect at this point. In the future, depending on the talent on the roster, and the capability of the coaching staff, I may have great hope that they will make the final 4. I will always that aspiration for the team, always. It things will have to change in order for me to ever “expect” it.

[nuts4xu]

We somehow went from Final Four expectations to giving all kinds of excuses for 3 years of blah.

You are writing off this year already? You have been around long enough to know the season is a lifetime. I have my concerns about the team, sure. But the story isn't quite finished. There are chapters yet to be written and a lot could happen in the next 6 weeks.

It wasn't so blah when we made 19 shots from three against Oklahoma...it was more like halb, or the opposite of blah.

[drudy23]

You are writing off this year already? You have been around long enough to know the season is a lifetime. I have my concerns about the team, sure. But the story isn't quite finished. There are chapters yet to be written and a lot could happen in the next 6 weeks.

It wasn't so blah when we made 19 shots from three against Oklahoma...it was more like halb, or the opposite of blah.

Not writing it off - but it seems very similar. I've felt this way before and we've almost gone to the Final Four, so.....

Really, it's 3 weeks - have to win 3-4 of next 5 games. If not, the next 3 after that won't matter.

Steele just hasen't given me reason to believe. Sorry to say that, but it's the truth.

[xudash]

Only UCONN, X, and Butler have their own arenas. The rest play in public buildings, with, I imagine, some pretty high dollar rent. What in the hell is Providence spending money on ? Pre Covid, I believe X was making money on bball. How many of these other schools were ? You listed money spent, not ROI.
I don't think any of us want to go back to the pre-Staak days of being "guaranteed win night " for other schools. I expect to be in the tournament every year, and I expect to get to the Final Four some day. You're wrong about overachievement. What Butler did is massive overachievement. What X has done is controlled growth with a definitive goal in mind, FF. Come Selection Sunday, if we don't get in, I won't be disappointed, I'll be pissed. BTW, what do Marquette and Gtown, Prov and ST J have to show for all that money spent in the last 10 yrs ?

This is spot on.

You simply cannot look at summary budget figures. You have to break them down and "common size" them in order to make meaningful comparisons. The NBA arena freight some of these schools pay is extraordinary.

Xavier has been highly profitable - the most important measure - since the opening of the Cintas Center. At one point, we were ranked in the Forbes Top 20 Most Valuable Programs (17th) and were only one of three private schools that made the ranking (along with Duke and Syracuse). These rankings ebb and flow due to a number of factors, but X has maintained a solid position, thanks to turning the Cintas Center into a veritable cash register. ROI. Free Cash Flow. I'll take solid figures for those any day over gross expenses.

And this sums up perfectly where we've been since the hiring of Bob Staak: What X has done is controlled growth with a definitive goal in mind, FF. Hell, we are now THE program that has had the most NCAAT wins without having made it to the F4.

I am a huge believer in continuity for the coaching staff in major sports, especially in college basketball. We enjoy a great reputation of having a number of fine coaches revolve through our program. But that's the problem - they came for a while and moved on. We've grown stronger and stronger, and we've now fixed our conference affiliation issue in splendid fashion. So, all program elements are in place for positioning the right coaching staff to navigate us to a F4 - with a little luck, as that applies to everyone in that tournament. Jay Wright is in his 20th year at Nova. I believe Few has been at Gonzaga for about that length of time. Coach K at Duke, though "life cycle" dynamics are catching up with him, as they have with Boeheim at Syracuse.

The point is that we need to find our guy. Travis Steele has all the personal markings of someone who will stick around if he can prove to be successful. He needs to be given a full chance.

Xavier plays in the Big East. Xavier has one of the finest on campus facilities in the country. It has the resources and the full support of its administration; they all get how important basketball is to the overall wellbeing of the university. It has the fanbase and it has a strong reputation in the sport.

I'll be pissed, too, if we don't get called for this year's NCAAT. But I'll give it another year with the current regime for the sake of the long view. We're too well established to not be attractive to strong candidates should we have to go down that road in the near future.

I still see the "2%" as happening in the near future for X. My expectation is the NCAA Tournament virtually every year, even as we have to grind our way through a BE schedule in conference. I expect deep runs occasionally from there.

[xuphan]

Since the opening of the Cintas Center, the academic side hasn't subsidized the athletic side one cent.

That is the way it should be. Xavier needs to produce on the basketball court to help increase the basketball departments budget. Lately, we haven’t been producing on the court. Hopefully that will change with Steele but I am starting to get worried with how inconsistent his teams seem to be.

[UCGRAD4X]

The expectation is that "if and buts are fruits and nuts"

We all hope this whole discussion is moot and that Travis will succeed and Xavier will take its rightful place once again among the rising stars of the college basketball universe.

We are all looking for reasons to be optimistic. Some of us are better at seeing the fruits and nuts. Some have serious nut allergies and too much fruit gives them piles.

What exactly in happening with the 'eyeball test' on gamedays that makes your buts nuts?

[RetireFiftyTu]

My expectations would be to

-Make the NCAA Tournament every year
-Avoid the first round of the Big East Tournament (essentially be in the top half of the conference) the majority of the time
-Be seen on the frontpage of Kenpom.com (top 30) most years fairly consistently
-Every 5ish years have a pretty special 2-3 year (think top 10-20 most of the season, conference champ or close to it, high seed and deep run in NCAAT)
-Advance in the NCAA Tournament consistently (doesn't have to be a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 every time but every first round matchup should be winnable)

Maybe some of these are a touch unrealistic but Xavier is a top 25ish job and program. I think these are fairly realistic expectations for Xavier's caliber of program and Xavier specifically all things considered.

[xavierj]

My expectations would be to

-Make the NCAA Tournament every year
-Avoid the first round of the Big East Tournament (essentially be in the top half of the conference) the majority of the time
-Be seen on the frontpage of Kenpom.com (top 30) most years fairly consistently
-Every 5ish years have a pretty special 2-3 year (think top 10-20 most of the season, conference champ or close to it, high seed and deep run in NCAAT)
-Advance in the NCAA Tournament consistently (doesn't have to be a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 every time but every first round matchup should be winnable)

Maybe some of these are a touch unrealistic but Xavier is a top 25ish job and program. I think these are fairly realistic expectations for Xavier's caliber of program and Xavier specifically all things considered.

I agree. Would be interesting to know if the administration and coaches feel that way too? If not then maybe we are wasting our time discussing it.

[drudy23]

I agree. Would be interesting to know if the administration and coaches feel that way too? If not then maybe we are wasting our time discussing it.

You keep alluding to the admin and the staff not having these type of expectations.

What do you really want to say?

[XUBison]

So we should not expect to finish higher than 9th in the BE in any given year? Sounds awesome.

We have done more with less for 40 years. Some would say this means we are good at what we do, but I guess we should no longer expect to do things so well, because... reasons.

[xudash]

You keep alluding to the admin and the staff not having these type of expectations.

What do you really want to say?

The better question is: Why are you even asking this question?

To be polite about it, questioning the administration's emphasis on the basketball program and its expectations for it is a waste of time. And if you think you won't see the new prez in the President's Suite during games, you're fruitfully nuts.

[paulxu]

Does she wear sweaters?

[drudy23]

The better question is: Why are you even asking this question?

To be polite about it, questioning the administration's emphasis on the basketball program and its expectations for it is a waste of time. And if you think you won't see the new prez in the President's Suite during games, you're fruitfully nuts.

I'm not the one who continues to post inferring that coaches and admins don't have high expectations.

I have no clue why he keeps saying that.

[XUGRAD80]

So we should not expect to finish higher than 9th in the BE in any given year? Sounds awesome.

We have done more with less for 40 years. Some would say this means we are good at what we do, but I guess we should no longer expect to do things so well, because... reasons.

In it’s six full years as a BE member, Xavier has fished at 9-9 three times, 10-8 one time, and had two outstanding years of 14-4 and 15-3. They are currently at 4-4, after going 9-9 the last two years in a row. When it happens more often than not, and has been that way for an extended period of time (2 1/2 years), I don’t think it’s wrong to ask why others have (had) such high expectations for this year. And I said “expectations”, like in why did people “expect” this year to be different than the norm over their BE life? 5 out of 7 years of .500 or very close to it, makes .500 the norm in my sight. And, NO! That doesn’t make it OK, it does not mean that I’m happy or satisfied if that’s all they do. I’m NOT! Not happy about it one bit! But I’m also not surprised by it because it’s what I expected coming into the season, even if it’s not what I hoped for. But I fear that if X doesn’t make a stronger commitment to the program budget wise, they may well remain exactly where they are right now...a mostly average program that catches lightning in a bottle every once in awhile because they have had some great coaches. I hope X proves me wrong, but I don’t expect them to.

Reasons.....this ain’t the MCC or the A-10 any longer. They are in the big leagues now. If they want to challenge for championships and aren’t happy just being “competitive”, they need to lose the Bengals mindset. They need to be 100% committed to doing it. A budget that is #9 out of 11 in the league, and #73 in the country, doesn’t say to me that they are.

If that’s the case, then OK. If this is as good as we are going to aspire to, OK. It’s still far far more than we aspired to back 40 some odd years ago. But Steele came in saying that he was committed to reaching that last 2%. Maybe HE is. Is the rest of the department? Is the school administration? I have my doubts. Until I see positive change, my expectations will remain low, my aspirations will not.

[drudy23]

In it’s six full years as a BE member, Xavier has fished at 9-9 three times, 10-8 one time, and had two outstanding years of 14-4 and 15-3. They are currently at 4-4, after going 9-9 the last two years in a row. When it happens more often than not, and has been that way for an extended period of time (2 1/2 years), I don’t think it’s wrong to ask why others have (had) such high expectations for this year. And I said “expectations”, like in why did people “expect” this year to be different than the norm over their BE life? 5 out of 7 years of .500 or very close to it, makes .500 the norm in my sight. And, NO! That doesn’t make it OK, it does not mean that I’m happy or satisfied if that’s all they do. I’m NOT! Not happy about it one bit! But I’m also not surprised by it because it’s what I expected coming into the season, even if it’s not what I hoped for. But I fear that if X doesn’t make a stronger commitment to the program budget wise, they may well remain exactly where they are right now...a mostly average program that catches lightning in a bottle every once in awhile because they have had some great coaches. I hope X proves me wrong, but I don’t expect them to.

Reasons.....this ain’t the MCC or the A-10 any longer. They are in the big leagues now. If they want to challenge for championships and aren’t happy just being “competitive”, they need to lose the Bengals mindset. They need to be 100% committed to doing it. A budget that is #9 out of 11 in the league, and #73 in the country, doesn’t say to me that they are.

If that’s the case, then OK. If this is as good as we are going to aspire to, OK. It’s still far far more than we aspired to back 40 some odd years ago. But Steele came in saying that he was committed to reaching that last 2%. Maybe HE is. Is the rest of the department? Is the school administration? I have my doubts. Until I see positive change, my expectations will remain low, my aspirations will not.

For one, and most importantly, they have a better and deeper roster this year. Going .500 with this roster is a pretty big letdown.

Not a good enough roster for 15-3, but certainly better than .500 or below.

[RetireFiftyTu]

In it’s six full years as a BE member, Xavier has fished at 9-9 three times, 10-8 one time, and had two outstanding years of 14-4 and 15-3. They are currently at 4-4, after going 9-9 the last two years in a row. When it happens more often than not, and has been that way for an extended period of time (2 1/2 years), I don’t think it’s wrong to ask why others have (had) such high expectations for this year. And I said “expectations”, like in why did people “expect” this year to be different than the norm over their BE life? 5 out of 7 years of .500 or very close to it, makes .500 the norm in my sight. And, NO! That doesn’t make it OK, it does not mean that I’m happy or satisfied if that’s all they do. I’m NOT! Not happy about it one bit! But I’m also not surprised by it because it’s what I expected coming into the season, even if it’s not what I hoped for. But I fear that if X doesn’t make a stronger commitment to the program budget wise, they may well remain exactly where they are right now...a mostly average program that catches lightning in a bottle every once in awhile because they have had some great coaches. I hope X proves me wrong, but I don’t expect them to.

Reasons.....this ain’t the MCC or the A-10 any longer. They are in the big leagues now. If they want to challenge for championships and aren’t happy just being “competitive”, they need to lose the Bengals mindset. They need to be 100% committed to doing it. A budget that is #9 out of 11 in the league, and #73 in the country, doesn’t say to me that they are.

If that’s the case, then OK. If this is as good as we are going to aspire to, OK. It’s still far far more than we aspired to back 40 some odd years ago. But Steele came in saying that he was committed to reaching that last 2%. Maybe HE is. Is the rest of the department? Is the school administration? I have my doubts. Until I see positive change, my expectations will remain low, my aspirations will not.

In my opinion the athletic department, administration, and university are fully behind the basketball program. Xavier has an excellent on-campus arena (updates are constantly being made) and facilities, they charter flights, Steele has a plane at his disposal for recruiting, etc. I'm not sure what more you could want from a support standpoint.

[XUGRAD80]

In my opinion the athletic department, administration, and university are fully behind the basketball program. Xavier has an excellent on-campus arena (updates are constantly being made) and facilities, they charter flights, Steele has a plane at his disposal for recruiting, etc. I'm not sure what more you could want from a support standpoint.

Maybe asks Nova what they are getting for their extra $7,000,000 dollars a year? I mean besides 2 National Championships.

[Xville]

Maybe asks Nova what they are getting for their extra $7,000,000 dollars a year? I mean besides 2 National Championships.

Well for 3.5 mil more than what Steele makes, they are getting a hall of fame coach who in turn wins games which in turn gets better players which turns into national championships.

[RetireFiftyTu]

Maybe asks Nova what they are getting for their extra $7,000,000 dollars a year? I mean besides 2 National Championships.

Villanova has a better coach. Jay Wright is a hall of fame coach. Villanova has better players. They get Top 50 guys. Xavier gets Top 100 guys. Villanova is churning out NBA draft picks and putting guys in the league. Xavier is having late second round picks and fringe NBA guys. Nova has more history, gets better players, and has a hall of fame coach.

[XUGRAD80]

Villanova has a better coach. Jay Wright is a hall of fame coach. Villanova has better players. They get Top 50 guys. Xavier gets Top 100 guys. Villanova is churning out NBA draft picks and putting guys in the league. Xavier is having late second round picks and fringe NBA guys. Nova has more history, gets better players, and has a hall of fame coach.

Yes! And spends twice as much on their program every year than X does!

Someone finally showed that there are MANY reasons why the “expectations” many have are not based on current reality. The budget deficit is only ONE reason. With all those things going for them, why do people here think that X can compete with them for championships on a regular basis? Sure X has had a couple of highly RATED recruiting classes, but those ratings really don’t mean much do they? Not only do most of the other teams in the league get just as good of recruits as X most years, they actually coach them and develop them. Many of the schools play in even nicer facilities than X...NBA arenas. The whole purpose of this was to point out that X is now playing in the big leagues, with schools that have been doing it for years. IMO it time to temper some of those lofty expectations with a dose of reality. X is a small school, with a comparatively small budget, that did quite well in the minor leagues against minor league competition. But they need to get major league players, major league coaches, and invest at a major league level,if they hope to win major league championships on a regular basis.

[xavierj]

You keep alluding to the admin and the staff not having these type of expectations.

What do you really want to say?

What I am saying is that people are saying Steele should get one more year and then if he misses the tourney, move on. The only people that have that power is the administration. If they don’t feel the same way as the fans than it’s all a moot point. I honestly do not think in a million years Xavier would fire Travis Steele, even if he didn’t make the NCAA tourney this year, next year and the year after.

[drudy23]

What I am saying is that people are saying Steele should get one more year and then if he misses the tourney, move on. The only people that have that power is the administration. If they don’t feel the same way as the fans than it’s all a moot point. I honestly do not think in a million years Xavier would fire Travis Steele, even if he didn’t make the NCAA tourney this year, next year and the year after.

Well all of us hope you are wrong - it would send an already apathetic Cincinnati sports fan into further apathy. The only thing that keeps me sane from a sports perspective is Xavier basketball. If they start to lose fans (and revenue, and recruits) because making the tournament isn't a priority, well, then they're really, really dumb.

[xavierj]

Well all of us hope you are wrong - it would send an already apathetic Cincinnati sports fan into further apathy. The only thing that keeps me sane from a sports perspective is Xavier basketball. If they start to lose fans (and revenue, and recruits) because making the tournament isn't a priority, well, then they're really, really dumb.

I agree with that. I could be wrong though. They did fire the girls basketball coach so who knows. Hopefully Travis figures it out and we don’t have to worry about it.

[Drew]

What I am saying is that people are saying Steele should get one more year and then if he misses the tourney, move on. The only people that have that power is the administration. If they don’t feel the same way as the fans than it’s all a moot point. I honestly do not think in a million years Xavier would fire Travis Steele, even if he didn’t make the NCAA tourney this year, next year and the year after.

I'll call you on that. $10,000 that Steele gets fired if he doesn't make the tourney this year, the next year or the year after.

[whopper]

I looked back at box scores at start of year (given not Big East) but against decent teams like Toledo and No Kentucky Carter had double doubles and Tandy in the teens..seems strange to now getting little or nothing. Not really coaching but if we could get some productivity from everybody things would change. Even Seton Hall and St Johns 1 Carter productive. Not a world beater but...I think they (and really everybody) should plan for short runs in the game and basically ramp up efforts(burn excess and wasted energy) every min they are in. That would be my strategy as coach; more productive per minute(and that may just be more deflections, close outs, etc.). Also Tandy had a ton of foul shots one of the games (and they were both close) which meant he did not just lift jumpers

[bleedXblue]

I looked back at box scores at start of year (given not Big East) but against decent teams like Toledo and No Kentucky Carter had double doubles and Tandy in the teens..seems strange to now getting little or nothing. Not really coaching but if we could get some productivity from everybody things would change. Even Seton Hall and St Johns 1 Carter productive. Not a world beater but...I think they (and really everybody) should plan for short runs in the game and basically ramp up efforts(burn excess and wasted energy) every min they are in. That would be my strategy as coach; more productive per minute(and that may just be more deflections, close outs, etc.). Also Tandy had a ton of foul shots one of the games (and they were both close) which meant he did not just lift jumpers

Carter is usually not productive when we decide to shoot 40 three's. Most of them open.....granted......but he clearly benefits from longer possessions, stick backs and closer looks to the basket.

[Xville]

It also makes sense carter would do well against those teams. That’s his talent level.

[whopper]

It also makes sense carter would do well against those teams. That’s his talent level.
True and the Big East is another animal... I am expecting 6 and 6 from Carter given his minutes and probably similar from Griffen and if not Griffin something from Miles. You can go for offensive rebounds AND get back in transition if you run a little harder.... If I were a senior I would leave it all on the floor..plenty of time to recover rest of your life. Tandy if any minutes has to disrupt on defense a bit before he lifts. Not many can take a demotion easily in work or sports (having done it in both it is better than getting nothing)

[xuphan]

It also makes sense carter would do well against those teams. That’s his talent level.

When Carter transferred to us I never imagined he would ever be a starter for this university. I always saw him as a role player at best. The fact that he is starting shows how thin we are down low.

[Xville]

True and the Big East is another animal... I am expecting 6 and 6 from Carter given his minutes and probably similar from Griffen and if not Griffin something from Miles. You can go for offensive rebounds AND get back in transition if you run a little harder.... If I were a senior I would leave it all on the floor..plenty of time to recover rest of your life. Tandy if any minutes has to disrupt on defense a bit before he lifts. Not many can take a demotion easily in work or sports (having done it in both it is better than getting nothing)

The thing that bugs me about Tandy and the way he was handled by Steele was that he got demoted for nothing. He got demoted in favor of an unathletic white guy who had proven nothing at this level, except all those gold Jersey points that Steele loves so much. He was handled absolutely terribly. Tandy had proven last year he could play at this level, and this should have been a breakout season for him, but instead Steele basically ruined him this year.

[AviatorX]

The thing that bugs me about Tandy and the way he was handled by Steele was that he got demoted for nothing. He got demoted in favor of an unathletic white guy who had proven nothing at this level, except all those gold Jersey points that Steele loves so much. He was handled absolutely terribly. Tandy had proven last year he could play at this level, and this should have been a breakout season for him, but instead Steele basically ruined him this year.

Come on man. Despite all the complaining about the offense on here, this is a very good passing team that shares the ball exceptionally well and Tandy is a gigantic ball stopper. Do I think he should be playing 0 minutes? Not really, but it's also not like Steele pulled in Kunkel off the street. He definitely has a stronger all around game than Tandy.

[UCGRAD4X]

The thing that bugs me about Tandy and the way he was handled by Steele was that he got demoted for nothing. He got demoted in favor of an unathletic white guy who had proven nothing at this level, except all those gold Jersey points that Steele loves so much. He was handled absolutely terribly. Tandy had proven last year he could play at this level, and this should have been a breakout season for him, but instead Steele basically ruined him this year.

It has been suggested, and I agree, there must be 'something else' going on here other than Steele out to ruin Tandy 'for nothing'. I'm not saying it is justified (or not) because I don't know what goes on outside of game play. It certainly appears to an outside observer that it is extreme but who knows what extreme circumstances are in play. It is certainly worth questioning.

We will probably never know, and that is the way it should be IMHO.

[Xville]

Come on man. Despite all the complaining about the offense on here, this is a very good passing team that shares the ball exceptionally well and Tandy is a gigantic ball stopper. Do I think he should be playing 0 minutes? Not really, but it's also not like Steele pulled in Kunkel off the street. He definitely has a stronger all around game than Tandy.

Even if you believe the above, it still doesn’t negate the fact that Tandy was handled horribly by Steele...shocking since he hasn’t improved in the lineup management aspect of coaching in three years.

[AviatorX]

Even if you believe the above, it still doesn’t negate the fact that Tandy was handled horribly by Steele...shocking since he hasn’t improved in the lineup management aspect of coaching in three years.

It's a two way street. I'll leave it at that because it's clear you have a much lower opinion of Kunkel than basically everyone in the Xavier program (which is definitely your right).

How many posts have you made about tightening the rotation? KyKy is in the one position group where that tightening has been pretty high stakes because of depth. What you really mean is tighten the rotation with my preferred players, I guess.

[drudy23]

When Carter transferred to us I never imagined he would ever be a starter for this university. I always saw him as a role player at best. The fact that he is starting shows how thin we are down low.

Does it show that, or does it show the coach is mismanaging his roster and his recruiting pipeline?

Carter and Kunkel weren't recruited to the Big East for a reason. That doesn't mean that they can't be important role contributors on this team. Problem is, he sees them as starters because 1) he's not very good at this or 2) he's trying to prove a point to the Big East recruits we have on the bench just watching the games.

Our talent is fine - they're being misused. When you go out and do nothing but put priority on guards and shooters, you better know how to utilize it. He has landed exactly one Big East caliber big man that's contributing solid minutes for his team. That's a problem. The others are either transfers (again, role players), or not playing at all.

[Xville]

It's a two way street. I'll leave it at that because it's clear you have a much lower opinion of Kunkel than basically everyone in the Xavier program (which is definitely your right).

How many posts have you made about tightening the rotation? KyKy is in the one position group where that tightening has been pretty high stakes because of depth. What you really mean is tighten the rotation with my preferred players, I guess.

Well, considering the track record of that program over the last three years, that’s not saying much. He’s a weak, role player at this level that was originally recruited to where he should be, just like carter from what I have seen.

With all of that said, I hope I’m dead wrong and he is a first team all be by the time he graduates.

This is what I would like to see:

Starters:

Scruggs
Johnson
Jones
Wilcher/Tandy
Free

Bench:

Griffeen
Wilcher/Tandy
Kunkel/carter

Starters should all be playing 20 plus minutes, 30 in the case of Scruggs and Jones. Wilcher/Tandy can split time..kunkel and carter should be playing limited role player limits. Those 5/6 “starters have the most talent and upside on the team, play your best most talented players period.

Go small for the most part, play to your teams strengths, open the damn floor up for drives to the basket. If Steele wants to be nova so bad, then go all the way and play the lineup that resembles nova, not a Mac team

None of this is going to happen because Steele doesn’t know how to make adjustments or is too stubborn.

[Xavier]

I thought Kunkel was a highly rated transfer- thought I remember Louisville, Kansas and Kentucky showing interest. May be wrong on that but I thought when he landed on Xavier is was a big deal

*yep, I was wrong. Creighton and Oklahoma were the other two big schools he was deciding between. He heard from Kentucky and Louisville but maybe not much interest.

[xavierj]

Even if you believe the above, it still doesn’t negate the fact that Tandy was handled horribly by Steele...shocking since he hasn’t improved in the lineup management aspect of coaching in three years.

This

[xavierj]

It's a two way street. I'll leave it at that because it's clear you have a much lower opinion of Kunkel than basically everyone in the Xavier program (which is definitely your right).

How many posts have you made about tightening the rotation? KyKy is in the one position group where that tightening has been pretty high stakes because of depth. What you really mean is tighten the rotation with my preferred players, I guess.

The thing is, if Kunkel was shooting 36% or higher from three, than by all means play him a bunch. But he is around 28% on a large sample size and that’s not good. If you do not bring many other intangibles to the game and you are not making shots, than the team will struggle. If Kunkel is going to play than he has to make shots, especially the open ones. He is not and the team is struggling. Try something else.

[Xville]

I thought Kunkel was a highly rated transfer- thought I remember Louisville, Kansas and Kentucky showing interest. May be wrong on that but I thought when he landed on Xavier is was a big deal

*yep, I was wrong. Creighton and Oklahoma were the other two big schools he was deciding between. He heard from Kentucky and Louisville but maybe not much interest.

I heard that Louisville/ky thing as well, not sure where it came from...maybe he was like a backup option or something transfer wise.

[whopper]

I wish all the players could look at every game as a new game (that is what those IMG Florida psychological classes attempt to do..). No past errors, no wondering what selection Sunday means, no hard feelings over benching or looking over shoulder to get pulled, no chip on shoulder for not being recruited by big east, just be in the moment. I never could do that but I know people like that and I have always envied them and thought it would be a given at this level. You can't change the talent, or vertical leap, or other metrics. Good luck X men.

[bjf123]

Unless you’re actually at practice and watch everything that goes on, you really have no idea what’s going on with Tandy and why he might not be playing. Would I like to see him playing? Yes. He has the potential to put up a lot of points very quickly. However, it seems like when he has gotten into the games recently, he’s been way too quick on the trigger and has put up some ill advised shots 5-10 seconds into the play clock.

I can’t imagine that he’s shooting lights out in practice and doing everything right, and Travis is intentionally leaving him on the bench for some other reason. None of us really know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UCGRAD4X]

Unless you’re actually at practice and watch everything that goes on, you really have no idea what’s going on with Tandy and why he might not be playing. Would I like to see him playing? Yes. He has the potential to put up a lot of points very quickly. However, it seems like when he has gotten into the games recently, he’s been way too quick on the trigger and has put up some ill advised shots 5-10 seconds into the play clock.

I can’t imagine that he’s shooting lights out in practice and doing everything right, and Travis is intentionally leaving him on the bench for some other reason. None of us really know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup.

[drudy23]

I know I've seen him perform very well early in the season when the offense was actually clicking and moving the ball well.

What happened to that? Is it really because we're playing better opponents? The first month of the season, we shared the ball, it bounced around the offense, we got dunks, layups, and open looks. KyKy was a big part of that.

It's like we've completely changed offenses. What's the difference? That's surely not KyKy's fault.

[xudash]

There are no easy explanations for everything that is going on with our basketball team, but it really strikes me as crazy that some of you guys continue to not account for the importance of practicing and playing to refine their teamwork and overall execution.

And if you want to take the position that every team is putting up with Covid, then compare our performance to those teams that are putting up with Covid which have only played two games in one month and with virtually no practices.

[drudy23]

There are no easy explanations for everything that is going on with our basketball team, but it really strikes me as crazy that some of you guys continue to not account for the importance of practicing and playing to refine their teamwork and overall execution.

And if you want to take the position that every team is putting up with Covid, then compare our performance to those teams that are putting up with Covid which have only played two games in one month and with virtually no practices.

If this was year one of this, and we hit a lull because of covid, I'd be in agreement. But the fact is, this type of offensive ineptitude and fading once conference plays starts had become a pattern. Most sane people realize that less practice time probably impacts performance, but it doesn't excuse the same lack of change and accountability we've seen from the head coach.

The problem isn't the losses, the problem is the the same concerning themes that don't seem to be getting fixed.

[94GRAD]

If this was year one of this, and we hit a lull because of covid, I'd be in agreement. But the fact is, this type of offensive ineptitude and fading once conference plays starts had become a pattern. Most sane people realize that less practice time probably impacts performance, but it doesn't excuse the same lack of change and accountability we've seen from the head coach.

The problem isn't the losses, the problem is the the same concerning themes that don't seem to be getting fixed.

Please elaborate on this teams offensive ineptitude.

[drudy23]

Please elaborate on this teams offensive ineptitude.

I could care less about PPG or offensive efficiency or whatever stat you're going to pull out that says we're a good offensive team.

For the past month, our offense has been "shoot threes". And with really no interjection from the coach. It's lightyears different from the sharing the basketball and consistent movement we saw earlier in the year - and painstakingly similar to last year.

We had a couple games where we made a bunch of 3s, and fell in love with it, potentially to the detriment of a tournament berth. Just use your eyes.

[AviatorX]

I could care less about PPG or offensive efficiency or whatever stat you're going to pull out that says we're a good offensive team.

For the past month, our offense has been "shoot threes". And with really no interjection from the coach. It's lightyears different from the sharing the basketball and consistent movement we saw earlier in the year - and painstakingly similar to last year.

We had a couple games where we made a bunch of 3s, and fell in love with it, potentially to the detriment of a tournament berth. Just use your eyes.

I know you don’t want to hear about stats, but may be worth checking out where X ranks nationwide as far as 3P%, percentage of field goal attempts that are 3’s and percentage of total points they get off of made 3’s. May want to throw in A/FGM while you’re at it.

[Xavier]

I could care less about PPG or offensive efficiency or whatever stat you're going to pull out that says we're a good offensive team.



I mean....what? I don’t know either of those stats but when judging offense you don’t care about points per game or offensive efficiency then you may as well stop the discussion. Those are probably the two easiest ways to judge offense.

[drudy23]

I mean....what? I don’t know either of those stats but when judging offense you don’t care about points per game or offensive efficiency then you may as well stop the discussion. Those are probably the two easiest ways to judge offense.

And if those stats for us are good, it's likely a result of the aspect of the season where we were actually efficient on offense. How many of us were extremely excited about the prospects on the offensive end of the court through the non-conference schedule? It was beautiful and effective ball movement in alot of games.

Once they hit Big East play, better coaches and better teams threw a wrinkle into it, and our answer has been undisciplined and ineffective shot selection.

It's not hard to see with your own eyes this team has done a complete 180 when it comes to offensive execution. For some reason, it's become the one pass and shoot show. If you're paying even the slightest bit of attention that is. Does anyone here disagree?

Teams changed the way they started defending us, and it's worked. Your move Trav.

[JEHARDI]

I know you don’t want to hear about stats, but may be worth checking out where X ranks nationwide as far as 3P%, percentage of field goal attempts that are 3’s and percentage of total points they get off of made 3’s. May want to throw in A/FGM while you’re at it.

He has “great eyes” no need to look at stats!

[xudash]

“We have a together group," said Steele. "I've met with each guy individually since coming back from St. John's just to make sure they're clear on where they stand with their role on our team – what we need from each individual – and each guy, to a man, understands that.”

[drudy23]

He has “great eyes” no need to look at stats!

What part do you disagree with?

[Xville]

“We have a together group," said Steele. "I've met with each guy individually since coming back from St. John's just to make sure they're clear on where they stand with their role on our team – what we need from each individual – and each guy, to a man, understands that.”

Whatever..half the problem is himself. Can’t wait to see carter starting and 25 minutes from him and kunkel. They’ll beat butler because they are terrible but doubt they will win another game after unless Steele actually changes and makes adjustments. This team could easily be 8-7 save for some miracles.

[AviatorX]

Whatever..half the problem is himself. Can’t wait to see carter starting and 25 minutes from him and kunkel. They’ll beat butler because they are terrible but doubt they will win another game after unless Steele actually changes and makes adjustments. This team could easily be 8-7 save for some miracles.

And Steele gets no credits for those "miracles"? He drew up the set that got Colby the game winner and if you were coaching Kunkel wouldn't have been on the floor to make the key pass on that set or his game winner vs. Marquette.

It would be nice if the folks assuming Xavier is going to finish 0-5 or 1-4 down the stretch would at least let them get halfway there before writing every post like it's a foregone conclusion.

[Xavier]

And Steele gets no credits for those "miracles"? He drew up the set that got Colby the game winner and if you were coaching Kunkel wouldn't have been on the floor to make the key pass on that set or his game winner vs. Marquette.

.

That was a great set. And Kunkel made a hell of a pass, they have used that set a few times since as well. I’ve seen a handful of really good plays out of time outs this season. I’ve seen moments of good, flowing offense. They have had some good zones mixed in. It’s just not as consistent as you need in the Big East. He has shown flashes which gives hope.

While I do think covid layoffs have hurt this team a bit, (3? Practices in January or something crazy like that. 5 games in 2 months?) Xavier has a favorable schedule down the stretch, though. No excuses if they miss the tournament. I still think they make it

[XUGRAD80]

I can’t wait until X beats Butler easily, so that I can read complaints that he didn’t give enough minutes to the backups and isn’t developing the freshman.

[AviatorX]

That was a great set. And Kunkel made a hell of a pass, they have used that set a few times since as well. I’ve seen a handful of really good plays out of time outs this season. I’ve seen moments of good, flowing offense. They have had some good zones mixed in. It’s just not as consistent as you need in the Big East. He has shown flashes which gives hope.

While I do think covid layoffs have hurt this team a bit, (3? Practices in January or something crazy like that. 5 games in 2 months?) Xavier has a favorable schedule down the stretch, though. No excuses if they miss the tournament. I still think they make it

I would wager they’ve been very, very efficient off that Kunkel curl set. Which is a good example of what he brings that KyKy doesn’t.

[Xuperman]

Maybe I'm reading him wrong but XVILLE looks to have anointed himself Grand Poobah of the "Fire Steele" movement....using his recent history of in game commentary as a prerequisite.

Of course, everyone is entitled to "Fan" as they see fit. :bash:

[Xville]

Maybe I'm reading him wrong but XVILLE looks to have anointed himself Grand Poobah of the "Fire Steele" movement....using his recent history of in game commentary as a prerequisite.

Of course, everyone is entitled to "Fan" as they see fit. :bash:

I don’t want Steele fired, I want him to improve and adjust better along with learning how to manage a lineup. If the team doesn’t make the tourney this year and next, then I would want him gone. If he doesn’t adjust and improve, then I don’t think this year or next, Xavier will be making the tourney

[drudy23]

I really don't understand how people get so butthurt when fans simply point out some obvious things that aren't working.

We're all fans and want to see success. But there's certainly some head-scratching things going on right now with the roster and how we execute on the offensive and defensive end. Steele simply hasn't earned enough trust at this point to get the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. I think most people think this, but some are more willing to say it than others.

[markchal]

I know I've seen him perform very well early in the season when the offense was actually clicking and moving the ball well.

What happened to that? Is it really because we're playing better opponents? The first month of the season, we shared the ball, it bounced around the offense, we got dunks, layups, and open looks. KyKy was a big part of that.


I mean, was he though? Once we got to the shootout, and Jones/Wilcher were off COVID list and Kunkel got eligible, his minutes and production totally disappeared. The wins against UC, Oklahoma and Marquette were our best performances of that stretch.

We played five games before that, and while Tandy did score, I wouldn't exactly say the team looked that great. We played some garbage teams and came dangerously close to losing to Toledo, Bradley and Eastern Kentucky during that five game stretch.

[drudy23]

I mean, was he though? Once we got to the shootout, and Jones/Wilcher were off COVID list and Kunkel got eligible, his minutes and production totally disappeared. The wins against UC, Oklahoma and Marquette were our best performances of that stretch.

We played five games before that, and while Tandy did score, I wouldn't exactly say the team looked that great. We played some garbage teams and came dangerously close to losing to Toledo, Bradley and Eastern Kentucky during that five game stretch.

He was our leading score (or very close), averaging 15 per game, averaging almost 30 minutes a game, and shooting over 40% from 3.

And then - nothing. A complete cliff drop - was that drastic of a change really warranted?

Does that really make sense? Leading scorer to the pine for full games?

Now, I agree he shoots some stupid shots, and presses to get his - but if the coaches can find ways to get him looks, he's going to knock them down. As of right now, all of our guards are going to struggle to be efficient with so little of a post threat.

I'm going to explode if Carter and Free are hanging out on the 3 point line all game again tonight.

[AviatorX]

He was our leading score (or very close), averaging 15 per game, averaging almost 30 minutes a game, and shooting over 40% from 3.

And then - nothing. A complete cliff drop - was that drastic of a change really warranted?

Does that really make sense? Leading scorer to the pine for full games?

Now, I agree he shoots some stupid shots, and presses to get his - but if the coaches can find ways to get him looks, he's going to knock them down. As of right now, all of our guards are going to struggle to be efficient with so little of a post threat.

I'm going to explode if Carter and Free are hanging out on the 3 point line all game again tonight.

I thought we weren't doing offensive stats? And anyway, he put up those numbers against bad teams before coaches had adjusted. Is that how this works?

KyKy and Carter are so far down the list of this team's most pressing issue over the past week (an absolutely shocking inability to execute team defense, even down to basic concepts). KyKy provides absolutely no assistance on that front and Carter is a plus. Yet a vocal segment on this board is going to beat those issues into the ground until the season is over apparently.

[Xuperman]

I really don't understand how people get so butthurt when fans simply point out some obvious things that aren't working.

We're all fans and want to see success. But there's certainly some head-scratching things going on right now with the roster and how we execute on the offensive and defensive end. Steele simply hasn't earned enough trust at this point to get the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how that's so hard to understand. I think most people think this, but some are more willing to say it than others.

This era of "instant satisfaction" is really annoying and that is on full display by some here. Look, in order to get where we want to go in this league, it all hinges on recruiting and retaining top talent...period. And there is no way anyone can view that what Coach/Staff are doing in this area has been exceptional, ESPECIALLY if Tandy stays committed and ends up doing what most think he can.

Granted, the two 2021s are not as exciting as our 3 2020s but they both are 100ish recruits AND they fill a NEED. The 2022s will be pivotal in where Coach can take us.

For some reason, there are people here that refuse to be somewhat optimistic while Steele's Musketeers have time to develop.

[drudy23]

I thought we weren't doing offensive stats? And anyway, he put up those numbers against bad teams before coaches had adjusted. Is that how this works?

KyKy and Carter are so far down the list of this team's most pressing issue over the past week (an absolutely shocking inability to execute team defense, even down to basic concepts). Yet a vocal segment on this board is going to beat those issues into the ground until the season is over apparently.

That’s my point - where’s the adjustment to find our guards good looks within the execution of the offense? It’s not just KYKY who throws up the first 3 he sees. The key to better offensive execution is the coaching staff putting them in situations for success. That hasn’t happened with any of our guards. Is our solution to continue to just throw up as many 3s as we can?

I have no doubt KYKY could be a much better contributor within a system of ball movement, inside-out execution, and sharing. That has been non existent through conference play.

Are we going to continue to put Free and Carter on the perimeter to continue to make our guards lives impossible?

[Xville]

This era of "instant satisfaction" is really annoying and that is on full display by some here. Look, in order to get where we want to go in this league, it all hinges on recruiting and retaining top talent...period. And there is no way anyone can view that what Coach/Staff are doing in this area has been exceptional, ESPECIALLY if Tandy stays committed and ends up doing what most think he can.

Granted, the two 2021s are not as exciting as our 3 2020s but they both are 100ish recruits AND they fill a NEED. The 2022s will be pivotal in where Coach can take us.

For some reason, there are people here that refuse to be somewhat optimistic while Steele's Musketeers have time to develop.

Instant satisfaction? It is year 3 and almost everyone on here is giving him a pass until the end of next year. While the roster had some issues when Mack left, this wasn’t a full rebuild job. Finally, I don’t even think it is so much the players, it’s the same mistakes that Steele has made since year one that I have an issue with.

[AviatorX]

That’s my point - where’s the adjustment to find our guards good looks within the execution of the offense? It’s not just KYKY who throws up the first 3 he sees. The key to better offensive execution is the coaching staff putting them in situations for success. That hasn’t happened with any of our guards. Is our solution to continue to just throw up as many 3s as we can?

I have no doubt KYKY could be a much better contributor within a system of ball movement, inside-out execution, and sharing. That has been non existent through conference play.

You are just repeatedly arguing a point that isn't true. Xavier shoots a very average number of 3's relative to total field goals and makes them at a well above average rate. The vast majority of these 3's are attempted by guys that shoot above the national average. Obviously Carter's attempts are too high (35 on the season) and Kunkel's statistically don't look great though I think he's earned some benefit of the doubt with his historical performance.

Xavier is also 4th in the nation in assists per game and 6th in the nation in percentage of made field goals assisted.

Yet you continue to hammer the line that this team doesn't pass and hunts too many 3's. Fine if you believe that, but if you actually look at what the team does, it's pretty hard to argue with the approach beyond "it's not getting the results we want over the last two games", which is of course true.

The St. John's game was very painful. But just to take one example, X got a ton of looks for Nate Johnson, which I almost guarantee you is the most efficient outcome Xavier can ask for on offense. He just happened to miss 9 in this one game.

[Xville]

You are just repeatedly arguing a point that isn't true. Xavier shoots a very average number of 3's relative to total field goals and makes them at a well above average rate. The vast majority of these 3's are attempted by guys that shoot above the national average. Obviously Carter's attempts are too high (35 on the season) and Kunkel's statistically don't look great though I think he's earned some benefit of the doubt with his historical performance.

Xavier is also 4th in the nation in assists per game and 6th in the nation in percentage of made field goals assisted.

Yet you continue to hammer the line that this team doesn't pass and hunts too many 3's. Fine if you believe that, but if you actually look at what the team does, it's pretty hard to argue with the approach beyond "it's not getting the results we want over the last two games", which is of course true.

The St. John's game was very painful. But just to take one example, X got a ton of looks for Nate Johnson, which I almost guarantee you is the most efficient outcome Xavier can ask for on offense. He just happened to miss 9 in this one game.

While I agree with a lot of this, the team is shooting 31-32 percent in big east play, that’s not above average, it’s actually second last in the league. We have better shooters than years past, but we still have guys taking a lot of 3s that shouldn’t be, I think that’s a lot of the problem I have with the offense.

[AviatorX]

While I agree with a lot of this, the team is shooting 31-32 percent in big east play, that’s not above average, it’s actually second last in the league. We have better shooters than years past, but we still have guys taking a lot of 3s that shouldn’t be, I think that’s a lot of the problem I have with the offense.

I hear that, but I'm not ready to throw out non-BE stats when we have a limited enough sample size as is and there has basically been no flow at all to this conference season. Your point is totally valid. It could go either way, but my belief is X is closer to the shooting team we've seen at their best than a few of the anchor performances really weighing down that conference number (@ Creighton, home for SJU).

Like I said, Carter takes too many 3's for sure. Similar to how I resisted Steele taking full control of the offense the last two seasons, I'm willing to let Kunkel shoot through it because there's no way this team hits their ceiling otherwise. I guess people will point to Freemantle, but he's a pretty good shooter.

I do think we're going to see a lot more Wilcher down the stretch at Carter's expense. Now there are definitely some matchups (Providence comes to mind) that necessitate Carter playing signficant minutes because he's really the only option to guard true 5's, but I do think that's a general trend we will (or at least should) see. People are going to have a license to complain about Carter no matter what though, because based on this team's frontcourt situation, he's going to have to play.

[drudy23]

You are just repeatedly arguing a point that isn't true. Xavier shoots a very average number of 3's relative to total field goals and makes them at a well above average rate. The vast majority of these 3's are attempted by guys that shoot above the national average. Obviously Carter's attempts are too high (35 on the season) and Kunkel's statistically don't look great though I think he's earned some benefit of the doubt with his historical performance.

Xavier is also 4th in the nation in assists per game and 6th in the nation in percentage of made field goals assisted.

Yet you continue to hammer the line that this team doesn't pass and hunts too many 3's. Fine if you believe that, but if you actually look at what the team does, it's pretty hard to argue with the approach beyond "it's not getting the results we want over the last two games", which is of course true.

The St. John's game was very painful. But just to take one example, X got a ton of looks for Nate Johnson, which I almost guarantee you is the most efficient outcome Xavier can ask for on offense. He just happened to miss 9 in this one game.

Throw in some non-conference vs conference splits on these stats, and if they are still similar, I'll say how wrong I am.

I've been the first to admit I was super excited about the prospects of our offense after watching the first half of the year. We shared the ball, we got good looks, and we knocked them down. It was everything last year wasn't.

Yet you refuse to relent that that reality has all but evaporated in conference play. You simply just throw back full year stats and say "we're good at offense" and ignore the reality that has unfolded in front of your eyes the last month.

Nate Johnson isn't making less shots because he's in a slump, he's making less shots because more of them are contested and are tougher shots because of the defensive pressure on our perimeter without consistent post scoring threats. Same with KyKy, same with Kunkel.

[drudy23]

The last 2 games, Free has had 30 and 20 (or something like that) - and they might have been the 2 worst games he's played all year.

There's a reason he's getting a whole bunch of easy buckets. Intense perimeter pressure and no other scoring threat in the post. Teams have figured out Free can get his but they'll win if they control our 3 point game. That's not good with limited post options.

And what's worse, we play right into with quick shots. Those are almost always contested and lower percentage ones.

[XU_Lou]

Throw in some non-conference vs conference splits on these stats, and if they are still similar, I'll say how wrong I am.

I've been the first to admit I was super excited about the prospects of our offense after watching the first half of the year. We shared the ball, we got good looks, and we knocked them down. It was everything last year wasn't.

Yet you refuse to relent that that reality has all but evaporated in conference play. You simply just throw back full year stats and say "we're good at offense" and ignore the reality that has unfolded in front of your eyes the last month.

Nate Johnson isn't making less shots because he's in a slump, he's making less shots because more of them are contested and are tougher shots because of the defensive pressure on our perimeter without consistent post scoring threats. Same with KyKy, same with Kunkel.

Good grief, you refuse to recognize the reality that the team had only 3 practices in 5 weeks! You obviously have never played the game, and have no idea how much work goes into becoming a competitive athlete in in the top echelon of college sports. Your arguments are completely unreasonable and irrational. If they played like they have in the last 2 games, and there were no interruptions in the schedule, you might have a point!

[drudy23]

Yep seasoned college athletes just forget how to execute an offense after a 2 week layoff.

So many excuses.

And I’m willing to put up $100 in a one on one game to 10. Or my 5 against your 5. Your move.

[XUGRAD80]

Is it that X has suddenly become selfish on offense (the assist stats don’t reflect that), or is it that the opposition (Big East schools) has gotten better?

[XU_Lou]

Yep seasoned college athletes just forget how to execute an offense after a 2 week layoff.

So many excuses.

And I’m willing to put up $100 in a one on one game to 10. Or my 5 against your 5. Your move.

What a clown response....

Do a Google search on how much fitness is lost after taking just one or two weeks off from training - and if you can find any studies on five weeks off, even better.

[paulxu]

I miss Tyrique Jones..

[XUGRAD80]

Yep seasoned college athletes just forget how to execute an offense after a 2 week layoff.

So many excuses.

And I’m willing to put up $100 in a one on one game to 10. Or my 5 against your 5. Your move.

They may not have forgotten how to play offense, but the timing does suffer when you miss practice time.

The problem is NOT the offense. They are scoring plenty of points. They aren’t playing defense well at all. That’s what suffers the most when you miss time, because defense is played by a TEAM. When you’re not practicing your TEAMWORK suffers. Rotations aren’t as quick. Close outs are not done as quickly. The speed of the game seems to increase because you’re not anticipating as well.

[drudy23]

What a clown response....

Do a Google search on how much fitness is lost after taking just one or two weeks off from training - and if you can find any studies on five weeks off, even better.

It was sarcasm.

[drudy23]

They may not have forgotten how to play offense, but the timing does suffer when you miss practice time.

The problem is NOT the offense. They are scoring plenty of points. They aren’t playing defense well at all. That’s what suffers the most when you miss time, because defense is played by a TEAM. When you’re not practicing your TEAMWORK suffers. Rotations aren’t as quick. Close outs are not done as quickly. The speed of the game seems to increase because you’re not anticipating as well.

What timing is lost when you come down and chuck up the first shot you see after one pass? Do you actually watch the games?

[XU_Lou]

Louisville just got pummeled yesterday by UNC - by 55 points! Do you think Mack should get fired (despite his exit from XU), or do you think this was also the result of UL missing more than 2 weeks of practice, and haven't played a game since 2/1/21?

[drudy23]

Louisville just got pummeled yesterday by UNC - by 55 points! Do you think Mack should get fired (despite his exit from XU), or do you think this was also the result of UL missing more than 2 weeks of practice, and haven't played a game since 2/1/21?

I couldn’t care less. That has nothing to do with Xavier.

[drudy23]

We haven’t practice in 2 weeks.

Gameplan - chuck up as many 3s as possible and hope we get hot.

Awesome.

Oh and another thing - the only way we lose to St John’s is if we try to maintain their high scoring and uptempo style - so let’s do that too. It won’t matter that we lost because everyone will say how good our offense is because we scored so many points.

[UCGRAD4X]

Louisville just got pummeled yesterday by UNC - by 55 points! Do you think Mack should get fired (despite his exit from XU), or do you think this was also the result of UL missing more than 2 weeks of practice, and haven't played a game since 2/1/21?

Yes. I think Mac should be fired.

(did I type that out loud?)

[Xville]

I couldn’t care less. That has nothing to do with Xavier.

Don’t bother with him, he’s a clown. Soon he’ll post some stupid YouTube video that he thinks is so clever while he giggles in his parents basement

[UCGRAD4X]

Don’t bother with him, he’s a clown.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0d703df3cb1d9788365d50bff41df128/tenor.gif

[XU_Lou]

Don’t bother with him, he’s a clown.

Oh butthurt, is this what you mean:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDLLPW20y3U

[XUGRAD80]

What timing is lost when you come down and chuck up the first shot you see after one pass? Do you actually watch the games?


Yes...and I even look at the stats afterwards.

If they are coming down and chucking up 3 pointers on every possession how do you account for 18 assists per game when they are only making 8 three pointers a game? Last time I checked an assist on a 3 pointer still only counts as 1 assist, not 2.

[drudy23]

Yes...and I even look at the stats afterwards.

If they are coming down and chucking up 3 pointers on every possession how do you account for 18 assists per game when they are only making 8 three pointers a game? Last time I checked an assist on a 3 pointer still only counts as 1 assist, not 2.

19-33 from 2 point range - 58%

11-40 from 3 point range - 28%

Hmm. Yeah, you're right, much more efficient on 3 point efficiency. St Johns worst 2 point defense in the league - and we shoot 40 3s, while shooting almost 60% from 2 - obviously getting great looks.

Oh yeah, I forgot, it was just a bad shooting night. Clueless.

[XUGRAD80]

19-33 from 2 point range - 58%

11-40 from 3 point range - 28%

Hmm. Yeah, you're right, much more efficient on 3 point efficiency. St Johns worst 2 point defense in the league - and we shoot 40 3s, while shooting almost 60% from 2 - obviously getting great looks.

Oh yeah, I forgot, it was just a bad shooting night. Clueless.

Nice try to change the discussion. You’ve stated more than just a couple of times that they are coming down, making one pass, and checking up a 3. My response has nothing to do with the effectiveness of shooting 2 pointers or shooting 3 pointers, or free throws either. It is merely a proof that your observation/claim is incorrect. They aren’t coming down every time, throwing one pass, and chucking up a 3.

Not only do the assist stats show it, but so do the shot statistics. As a team for the year they have taken almost 2X as many 2 point shots as 3 point shots. Nor has that ratio changed much from OCC to Conference games. The 7 OCC games...162 3 point shots, that’s 23 per game. The 8 conference games...192/24 per game.

They took 27 of 63 v SJU, and 29 of 73 v UConn. Hardly all the time, let alone a majority.

Who’s clueless now?

Now if you want to say that you think they are taking to many three point shots.......I won’t argue that. I’d like to see it around 20 per game. But that’s not what you’ve been saying, is it?

[JEHARDI]

I couldn’t care less. That has nothing to do with Xavier.

It is further proof that coming back after long layoffs against quality teams that have been practicing and playing is not easy. But of course you know better!

[Xville]

It is further proof that coming back after long layoffs against quality teams that have been practicing and playing is not easy. But of course you know better!

Ok, but none of this has to do with the game plan, which against St. John’s, made zero sense.

[Double Down]

I expect a win for Xavier tonight; that is my expectation.

[JEHARDI]

Ok, but none of this has to do with the game plan, which against St. John’s, made zero sense.

SJU was willing to give them open 3’s. Unfortunately, they were not falling. This game was not lost on the offensive end of the floor. Move on.

[drudy23]

They aren’t coming down every time, throwing one pass, and chucking up a 3.



Against St Johns, that's pretty much what they did. Again, did you actually watch the game?

[xuphan]

Against St Johns, that's pretty much what they did. Again, did you actually watch the game?

My new expectation is for Carter to start and play big minutes each game to put a smile on Steele’s face.

[Xuperman]

I expect a win for Xavier tonight; that is my expectation.

Barely..........Butler was the only team in the conference that we could beat last night. Our 3 point shooting has become a very disturbing situation.....just 13 of FIFTY NINE in our last 2. That's almost unfathomable. It doesn't help that Scruggs managed only 2 points with zero FTA.

That was a horrible Butler team, heck they're pretty bad at full strength, but even short 3 starters they out rebounded us!

There is no way this ends well unless things change drastically.

[Xuperman]

Any word on Griffin? We got to have another effective big.

[bjf123]

Any word on Griffin? We got to have another effective big.

I thought I saw that Steele said he’d be available for Wednesday.


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