Travis Discussion [Archive] - Page 5

bleedXblue

03-15-2021, 10:37 AM

I mean, of course he gets a black eye for that. It's not crippling. Altman overcame it when he did it to Arkansas. Gregg Marshall overcame it when he did it to College of Charleston. Billy Donovan overcame it when he did it to Atlanta.

But combine it with the weird departure from Xavier and some of the rumors of how the NKU coaching search went down, and it's a bit of a troubling pattern.

By all accounts the NKU gig didn't happen b/c they couldn't iron out details of the contract. That happens all the time......

Look, I'm not dead set on Kelsey (if we have an opening soon) and think there will be plenty of good options for Xavier to consider. He should just be one of them IMHO

boozehound

03-15-2021, 10:46 AM

Why should anyone be soured on Kelsey? Has he done something that would give anyone reason to be? What factual information do you have to share with us?

To flip that around, why are we still talking about him? Because he coached here for 3 years a decade ago? Do we pick other departed assistants to make them into some sort of savior for the program?

I don't think anything he has done is a disqualifier, but there is some weird stuff with UMass and NKU as Go mentioned. I certainly don't think he has done anything to warrant the amount of chatter he gets from the Xavier fan base though. He spent 3 years at Xavier before leaving to coach Winthrop. He has coached Winthrop for almost 10 years now and has made the NCAA 2x? 3 if you assume they would have made it last year. If we hired someone with his resume who's name wasn't Pat Kelsey would you be impressed? I'll bet there are tons of guys in the SWAC and Mountain West with similar resumes. Why aren't we all talking about them?

If we get rid of Steele I'd like to see a thorough national search. Not settling for targeting some guy because he is from Cincinnati and coached at Xavier for a hot minute.

GoMuskies

03-15-2021, 10:49 AM

Lamont Sanford

03-15-2021, 10:50 AM

Why should anyone be soured on Kelsey? Has he done something that would give anyone reason to be? What factual information do you have to share with us?

As long as Tu Holloway stays away from XU and the West side, we should be fine with hiring Kelsey. Or is that still a rumor?

AviatorX

03-15-2021, 10:58 AM

We don't have to assume they'd have made it last year. They won the Big South Tournament last year. Personally, I think this year is the one that finally puts Kelsey's resume in a place where he should be considered for jobs like Xavier. And he didn't JUST coach at Xavier for three years. He also took a business management class at Xavier with GoMuskies. That's GOT to count for something.

That should at least up the buy out in his future contract significantly. I agree this is the season that puts him on the radar for a big job, but it's also a ludicrously weird season and he racked up a solid 19 Q4 wins, so still some proving it to be done in my view. The Big South is really, really bad.

Backyard Champ

03-15-2021, 11:02 AM

To flip that around, why are we still talking about him? Because he coached here for 3 years a decade ago? Do we pick other departed assistants to make them into some sort of savior for the program?

I don't think anything he has done is a disqualifier, but there is some weird stuff with UMass and NKU as Go mentioned. I certainly don't think he has done anything to warrant the amount of chatter he gets from the Xavier fan base though. He spent 3 years at Xavier before leaving to coach Winthrop. He has coached Winthrop for almost 10 years now and has made the NCAA 2x? 3 if you assume they would have made it last year. If we hired someone with his resume who's name wasn't Pat Kelsey would you be impressed? I'll bet there are tons of guys in the SWAC and Mountain West with similar resumes. Why aren't we all talking about them?

If we get rid of Steele I'd like to see a thorough national search. Not settling for targeting some guy because he is from Cincinnati and coached at Xavier for a hot minute.

This is my thought as well. If he didn’t spend time at Xavier, would Xavier fans really be discussing him as someone to take over?

throwbackmuskie

03-15-2021, 11:05 AM

This is my thought as well. If he didn’t spend time at Xavier, would Xavier fans really be discussing him as someone to take over?

Maybe, he has done pretty good at Winthrop to the point other fan bases are talking about wanting to hire him.

OTRMUSKIE

03-15-2021, 11:08 AM

But he did spend time at Xavier. He coached at Xavier, he played at Xavier, he is from Cincinnati. Is the best candidate for the job? Hell no! But he is the best option for this program. This is a job he will have until the fans say “Time to go Patsie” Personally, I think Porter from Loyola would be my first choice. However, I’m thinking long term. Pat is the perfect candidate to have stability and consistent NCAA appearances again.

paulxu

03-15-2021, 11:16 AM

He also took a business management class at Xavier with GoMuskies. That's GOT to count for something.

I'm not sure what that counts for ??
But...the largest count of posts this past year have been for politics, covid and getting rid of Travis.
That can't be good.

bleedXblue

03-15-2021, 11:20 AM

To flip that around, why are we still talking about him? Because he coached here for 3 years a decade ago? Do we pick other departed assistants to make them into some sort of savior for the program?

I don't think anything he has done is a disqualifier, but there is some weird stuff with UMass and NKU as Go mentioned. I certainly don't think he has done anything to warrant the amount of chatter he gets from the Xavier fan base though. He spent 3 years at Xavier before leaving to coach Winthrop. He has coached Winthrop for almost 10 years now and has made the NCAA 2x? 3 if you assume they would have made it last year. If we hired someone with his resume who's name wasn't Pat Kelsey would you be impressed? I'll bet there are tons of guys in the SWAC and Mountain West with similar resumes. Why aren't we all talking about them?

If we get rid of Steele I'd like to see a thorough national search. Not settling for targeting some guy because he is from Cincinnati and coached at Xavier for a hot minute.

So, no you don't have any factual information. Just wanted to clear that up.....

Kelsey is one of very few Xavier assistants with a HC gig and a recent track record of success. Mark Schmidt at St Bonnie, but he's even be more removed from the program as part of Skip's staff over 20 years ago. Throw Croce in there if you want to.

Coaches get mentioned ALL THE TIME to take HC gigs at their alma maters. Why is this any different? I think it's a perfectly normal thing to consider.

He should be on the list. That's all I'm saying. The question around why he would be considered by some of you is totally puzzling to me?

OTRMUSKIE

03-15-2021, 11:21 AM

Is Steele allowed to enter the Transfer Portal. With KYKY officially gone, it would be great if they could enter it together.

xavierj

03-15-2021, 11:28 AM

I'm not sure what that counts for ??
But...the largest count of posts this past year have been for politics, covid and getting rid of Travis.
That can't be good.

Maybe we all lead very boring lives?

HAAS_U

03-15-2021, 11:39 AM

Rumor is the DePaul is shit canning Leitao today. Does that leave us with the worst coach in the Big East?

Yes, I think so. Any rumblings about any of the assistant coaches being let go? Any idea what it would take for Christopher to get the ax? I haven’t been impressed with his coaching searches to this point as AD.

Now I’m probably overreacting a bit but I just hate not seeing Xavier’s name being called during the selection show...

XUGRAD80

03-15-2021, 11:39 AM

I’ve never Underwood the fascination with Kelsey on the part of some, but I think that it’s perfectly normal to see his name mentioned as a potential candidate. He seems to be highly regarded in the eyes of many media people. If Winthrop has some tourney success you can bet that he will be on all of the BB shows on TV and Radio. I heard him a couple of weeks ago, and he is a good interviewee. Came across really well and very entertaining.

MY only problem with him has been that Hs dad was (when I knew him many many years ago) a real A$$. He may have changed and I won’t hold the dad against the son if he hasn’t.

But IF Steele leaves....and that is a BIG IF....I would hope that X would certainly do a national search and look at many possible candidates. They really need to get this right. They either have to be 100% sure that Steele is still the right choice, or they need to be very diligent and thorough in the the search for his replacement. If after doing all that they feel Kelsey is the right choice, OK. But don’t jump to the conclusion that just because he played and coached at X in the past, and has had some success elsewhere since then, that he is automatically a slam dunk, or the BEST candidate out there. X needs to get the best person they can for the job, not necessarily the “popular” choice.

HAAS_U

03-15-2021, 11:40 AM

Is Steele allowed to enter the Transfer Portal. With KYKY officially gone, it would be great if they could enter it together.

I wish. I don’t think we’re that lucky.

AviatorX

03-15-2021, 12:02 PM

Archie Miller is officially on the market if we're looking to play a slower version of Steele ball and waste more talent and potential.

paulxu

03-15-2021, 12:12 PM

$10 million hit for that one. Wonder if Cuban ponied up?

boozehound

03-15-2021, 12:13 PM

But IF Steele leaves....and that is a BIG IF....I would hope that X would certainly do a national search and look at many possible candidates. They really need to get this right. They either have to be 100% sure that Steele is still the right choice, or they need to be very diligent and thorough in the the search for his replacement. If after doing all that they feel Kelsey is the right choice, OK. But don’t jump to the conclusion that just because he played and coached at X in the past, and has had some success elsewhere since then, that he is automatically a slam dunk, or the BEST candidate out there. X needs to get the best person they can for the job, not necessarily the “popular” choice.

I agree that if he is the best we can get (which I kind of hope isn't true) then I'm fine with hiring him. I just don't understand the fascination that a portion of our fan base seems to have with him. I'd almost rather he is not in contention if we get rid of Steele, because I would like to see Xavier conduct a thorough national search and open up the pocketbook if necessary to secure the best coach possible. Cut it out with the small time thinking that led us to hire Steele in the first place.

Where I could see an advantage toward going after someone with ties the the school / area is if we could get a better coach than we otherwise could on the free market because they have a love for Xavier or the City of Cincinnati. I don't think Kelsey is that guy. He seems like he would be on the lower end of qualification to coach a school of Xavier's level.

OTRMUSKIE

03-15-2021, 12:14 PM

Archie can flat out coach. Indiana, well, I guess it’s just too hard to win there now. Anybody who can take one of the most shitty cities and Dilapidated programs that is VD, and turn it around, is the greatest coach ever in my book.

JTG

03-15-2021, 12:14 PM

$10 million hit for that one. Wonder if Cuban ponied up?

Might have been Andy Mohr, who owns about 20 auto dealerships, and sits courtside at IU games.

drudy23

03-15-2021, 12:20 PM

Programs get in trouble for buying a kid a meal and some shoes.

Yet a booster can write a $10M check to a school to fire a coach.

'Merica

Masterofreality

03-15-2021, 12:25 PM

Rumor is the DePaul is shit canning Leitao today. Does that leave us with the worst coach in the Big East?

Cue the Porter Moser to DePaul reports....

Masterofreality

03-15-2021, 12:33 PM

Blue Blooded-05

03-15-2021, 12:39 PM

One good thing about waiting another year on Travis is we might be able to interview Matta, Miller and Mack after next season.

Although Matta to IU rumors are beginning to gain momentum

bjf123

03-15-2021, 12:39 PM

Can someone remind me what happened with him and x?

Steele’s family donated more money than Kelsey’s? [emoji2369]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

American X

03-15-2021, 01:32 PM

Archie Miller is officially on the market if we're looking to play a slower version of Steele ball and waste more talent and potential.

Well, at least we are not losing the very successful coach that we have all grown to love to IU.

AviatorX

03-15-2021, 01:51 PM

One good thing about waiting another year on Travis is we might be able to interview Matta, Miller and Mack after next season.

Although Matta to IU rumors are beginning to gain momentum

I've read that Matta has no interest in coaching in a total fishbowl job. No doubt he would be a grand slam anywhere though if he's trying to get back into it. Guy got a raw deal. Obviously working out well for OSU, however.

xudash

03-15-2021, 02:23 PM

One good thing about waiting another year on Travis is we might be able to interview Matta, Miller and Mack after next season.

Although Matta to IU rumors are beginning to gain momentum

Good lord man, you've figured out what we're up to: we are going to bring all three of them back, with Matta as HC and the other two as Co-HC assistants, while moving Travis to film coordinator.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 01:28 PM

sgarcia

03-16-2021, 02:31 PM

I think everybody here think Coach Steele needs help....too many here think he is beyond help which is ridiculous IMO, and here's why.

He's 51-37 overall with questionable rosters for a variety of reasons. His coaching staff has been viewed as mediocre at best....especially from game planning and in game effectiveness. He is below average at 23-27 in BEast play, almost entirely because of late season swoons. Now this is a 1st time HC, in a top 3 conference, with the aforementioned flaws in the total team dynamic.

He needs HELP. Here's a off the wall solution. Why not give Pete Gillen a nice bump up In $$$ from his CBS gig and bring him in as a special assistant?

He would garner instant respect throughout the program and be invaluable scouting opponents and as a in game tactician.

I don't know if he would be interested but more money is always nice.

I don't know how many years you want to go with Steele but do you want Xavier to end up like Seton Hall (11 years, 1 tourney win with Willard), Providence (Ed Cooley 10 years, 1 tourney win) or Marquette (7 years, 0 tourney wins with Wojo)? That appears to be the path we are going down.

paulxu

03-16-2021, 03:14 PM

We're at 3 years. Seems a little ways away from 7, 10 or 11.

sgarcia

03-16-2021, 03:18 PM

We're at 3 years. Seems a little ways away from 7, 10 or 11.

Right. I don't want to get to year 7, 10 or 11 and turn into a meddling program. Next year needs to be the year we make the tournament or I would like the university to cut bait.

JTG

03-16-2021, 04:03 PM

I think everybody here think Coach Steele needs help....too many here think he is beyond help which is ridiculous IMO, and here's why.

He's 51-37 overall with questionable rosters for a variety of reasons. His coaching staff has been viewed as mediocre at best....especially from game planning and in game effectiveness. He is below average at 23-27 in BEast play, almost entirely because of late season swoons. Now this is a 1st time HC, in a top 3 conference, with the aforementioned flaws in the total team dynamic.

He needs HELP. Here's a off the wall solution. Why not give Pete Gillen a nice bump up In $$$ from his CBS gig and bring him in as a special assistant?

He would garner instant respect throughout the program and be invaluable scouting opponents and as a in game tactician.

I don't know if he would be interested but more money is always nice.

Pete was always one of my favorites, but he'd end up more popular than Steele, and that wouldn't set well. Now Gaudio or Orr might work. Or a former coach from somewhere else. How about Burrell ? Don't know if he's finished playing in Europe. I still think he lives in Indy off season. He needs someone not named Graves. I've heard radio interviews from him in his Indy days. He's a bona fide weirdo.

xudash

03-16-2021, 04:25 PM

I think everybody here think Coach Steele needs help....too many here think he is beyond help which is ridiculous IMO, and here's why.

He's 51-37 overall with questionable rosters for a variety of reasons. His coaching staff has been viewed as mediocre at best....especially from game planning and in game effectiveness. He is below average at 23-27 in BEast play, almost entirely because of late season swoons. Now this is a 1st time HC, in a top 3 conference, with the aforementioned flaws in the total team dynamic.

He needs HELP. Here's a off the wall solution. Why not give Pete Gillen a nice bump up In $$$ from his CBS gig and bring him in as a special assistant?

He would garner instant respect throughout the program and be invaluable scouting opponents and as a in game tactician.

I don't know if he would be interested but more money is always nice.

Personally, I think this is a fantastic idea. I’m not concerned in the least about the upstaging issue, and the PR lift from this would be huge.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 04:31 PM

Pete was always one of my favorites, but he'd end up more popular than Steele, and that wouldn't set well. Now Gaudio or Orr might work. Or a former coach from somewhere else. How about Burrell ? Don't know if he's finished playing in Europe. I still think he lives in Indy off season. He needs someone not named Graves. I've heard radio interviews from him in his Indy days. He's a bona fide weirdo.

No, I am serious about Pete if only from a solution/strategic angle. He would bring an instant X tradition/pride and a avalanche of EXPERIANCE....Kinda like the Louis Orr/Gene Keady dynamic.

I'm thinking 60K as a CBS analyst.....95K as a special assistant? Money well spent for the total package.....just what I would try and get done.
:headscratch:

MHettel

03-16-2021, 04:34 PM

No, I am serious about Pete if only from a solution/strategic angle. He would bring an instant X tradition/pride and a avalanche of EXPERIANCE....Kinda like the Louis Orr/Gene Keady dynamic.

I'm thinking 60K as a CBS analyst.....95K as a special assistant? Money well spent for the total package.....just what I would try and get done.
:headscratch:

Phil Martelli is currently an assistant coach for #1 seeded Michigan.

I like the idea in general. It doesnt HAVE to be Pete. But a solid teacher / X&O guy would be a huge upgrade.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 04:38 PM

Phil Martelli is currently an assistant coach for #1 seeded Michigan.

I like the idea in general. It doesnt HAVE to be Pete. But a solid teacher / X&O guy would be a huge upgrade.

But Pete is a HIGH ENERGY guy. To bring him back to Victory Parkway would be EPIC for our young roster, coaches and everyone involved in X athletics. Basically a walking LEGEND.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 04:41 PM

I want to start a HIRE GILLEN thread but this is just a silly fan board and what's the point.

GoMuskies

03-16-2021, 04:46 PM

Bill Carmody is "retired". He's a good coach.

D-West & PO-Z

03-16-2021, 04:48 PM

No, I am serious about Pete if only from a solution/strategic angle. He would bring an instant X tradition/pride and a avalanche of EXPERIANCE....Kinda like the Louis Orr/Gene Keady dynamic.

I'm thinking 60K as a CBS analyst.....95K as a special assistant? Money well spent for the total package.....just what I would try and get done.
:headscratch:

You think Gillen only makes 60K as a CBS sports analyst???

It's a good idea for a more experienced coach, but I don't think Gillen would have any interest.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 04:52 PM

Bill Carmody is "retired". He's a good coach.

Gillen with the same resume....He is THE GUY that got us to the top of the sport. IF, the powers that be be see a need for an experienced eliminate to turn the tides....NOT CRAZY.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 04:57 PM

You think Gillen only makes 60K as a CBS sports analyst???

It's a good idea for a more experienced coach, but I don't think Gillen would have any interest.

What could a part time CBS college basketball analysts make? CBSSN not ESPN or even the FOX network. It's part time work...you think 60K is a low guess?

If so, I am not plugged in to media salaries.... Not close.

D-West & PO-Z

03-16-2021, 04:59 PM

What could a part time CBS college basketball analysts make? CBSSN not ESPN or even the FOX network. It's part time work...you think 60K is a low guess?

If so, I am not plugged in to media salaries.... Not close.

I mean maybe, I guess you could be right. He's usually on those other shows too for tourney stuff etc.

One thing I do know there is a gigantic leap in time commitment between what hes doing now and what you are suggesting. I'm guessing he has 0 interest.

Xuperman

03-16-2021, 05:30 PM

I mean maybe, I guess you could be right. He's usually on those other shows too for tourney stuff etc.

One thing I do know there is a gigantic leap in time commitment between what hes doing now and what you are suggesting. I'm guessing he has 0 interest.

I am guessing your are in your prime professionally, but some of us old guys get a second wind and seek out opportunities to pass along wisdom. I think Pete would be a fantastic hire wiith some,, not so, costly perks that would appeal to him.

Like I said, the guy is a living legend on Victory Parkway.

boozehound

03-16-2021, 05:35 PM

Pete was always one of my favorites, but he'd end up more popular than Steele, and that wouldn't set well. Now Gaudio or Orr might work. Or a former coach from somewhere else. How about Burrell ? Don't know if he's finished playing in Europe. I still think he lives in Indy off season. He needs someone not named Graves. I've heard radio interviews from him in his Indy days. He's a bona fide weirdo.

I mean, if Steele is worried about that, we have real problems. I also think a lot of programs probably have dynamics in which the players 'like' the assistants more than the HC. They are generally closer to the players and the HC has to be the bad guy sometimes. It's probably healthy and allows for a bit of 'tough love' from the head guy offset by some encouragement from the assistant.

Xville

03-16-2021, 05:44 PM

I mean, if Steele is worried about that, we have real problems. I also think a lot of programs probably have dynamics in which the players 'like' the assistants more than the HC. They are generally closer to the players and the HC has to be the bad guy sometimes. It's probably healthy and allows for a bit of 'tough love' from the head guy offset by some encouragement from the assistant.

Whatever you do, just stay out of the politics thread with the crazy conspiracy theorists and the fringe left and right

xudash

03-16-2021, 06:10 PM

MHettel

03-16-2021, 06:43 PM

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Basketball-Analyst-Salary

I would like to apply for the "Work from home basketball coach" job. Granted the 56K annual salary might cause a little hardship for my family of 6....

...but hell, I'm pretty much doing that job now for free.

XU_Lou

03-16-2021, 06:52 PM

Whatever you do, just stay out of the politics thread with the crazy conspiracy theorists and the fringe left and right

Bahahaha!!! This ^^^^ coming from the guy who has contributed dozens and dozens of comments to this same thread! Seriously, are you kidding me?

Muskie in dayton

03-16-2021, 07:34 PM

When is X going to announce Travis' firing? It's taking a long time.

bjf123

03-16-2021, 08:16 PM

When is X going to announce Travis' firing? It's taking a long time.

MAYBE, this time next year if they fail to make the tournament for a fourth consecutive year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OTRMUSKIE

03-16-2021, 11:35 PM

xu82

03-17-2021, 12:28 AM

Well the players just threw in an extra quarter buying Mr Aluminum another year it appears. This is it for sho! You are getting Nate Johnson back plus Scruggs could be as well. If you fail to make the tournament and PIG doesn’t count as making it. If you fail to make it in safely, then it’s time to go. This is Mr. Al, put up or shut up.

Do you mean “we”? Team game, as we know. I’m certainly not blindly behind Steele (the way you are opposed to him), but I like that he has some developed players who want to stay with him. He should get a 4th year, IMO, and I’m glad guys want to stay and play for him. I hope Steele learns and keeps growing into the job. Time will tell.

OTRMUSKIE

03-17-2021, 01:34 AM

xuphan

03-17-2021, 05:44 AM

If Mr. Al can’t win with next years team then he honestly should never coach again. Maybe he can go to Pete Newell big man camp. I remember as a kid hearing about that camp and I thought it was so special when a Xavier guy went. I guess I just assumed if you went there you were the chosen one.

The staff has reached out to 6’7 GW transfer Jamison Battle. Battle commented on what Xavier told him which I found to be interesting. Here is his comments on Xavier.

Xavier: "I talk to coach Johnson, I know he is from Minnesota so he just told me that with the guys they have returning they need to add a few pieces and adding a piece like me would hopefully put them on the top half of the Big East and compete to make the tournament and help them out."

xavierj

03-17-2021, 06:02 AM

The staff has reached out to 6’7 GW transfer Jamison Battle. Battle commented on what Xavier told him which I found to be interesting. Here is his comments on Xavier.

Xavier: "I talk to coach Johnson, I know he is from Minnesota so he just told me that with the guys they have returning they need to add a few pieces and adding a piece like me would hopefully put them on the top half of the Big East and compete to make the tournament and help them out."

I mentioned this guy last week. He has a really nice stroke and seems like a high IQ guy. More of a finesse guy and definitely a stretch 4. He is a lefty and moves well without the ball and loves to pick and pop. Have no idea if he can rebound and or play defense but he would definitely be a guy that would help spread the floor. Not sure how involved Xavier is as he says he is hearing the most from Butler and Marquette, along with Xavier, Arizona and Tennessee. 36% from three over two years on 7 threes shot per game. 82% career from the line. Would have three years left.

Xville

03-17-2021, 07:57 AM

xavierj

03-17-2021, 08:01 AM

Doesn’t he sound a bit redundant to others on the roster I.e Jones and wilcher and tucker from what ive heard? I know he has an inch or two on j and wilcher but sounds like a very similar game. Roster/lineup mgmt has been a key issue for Steele, Need a post guy.

I don’t know. He is definitely different than what Carter brought on offense and would spread the floor. Better shooter than Jones but also Jones is a 3 and this guy is a 4. Not sure what kind of defensive player he is. Also not sure how hard Xavier is trying to get him.

Xville

03-17-2021, 08:11 AM

I don’t know. He is definitely different than what Carter brought on offense and would spread the floor. Better shooter than Jones but also Jones is a 3 and this guy is a 4. Not sure what kind of defensive player he is. Also not sure how hard Xavier is trying to get him.

Fair enough! The umass big sounds like a perfect fit but with everyone courting him, figure chances of Xavier getting him are slim to none

drudy23

03-17-2021, 08:26 AM

Doesn’t he sound a bit redundant to others on the roster I.e Jones and wilcher and tucker from what ive heard? I know he has an inch or two on j and wilcher but sounds like a very similar game. Roster/lineup mgmt has been a key issue for Steele, Need a post guy.

Agree - he's a finesse player more like Free than Tyrique. Why do I have a feeling we're going to end up with 2 more of these guys and no post presence again?

Everything Steele does screams stretch 4 and ignores the Big East banger. He's overly in love with this profile of player.

xavierj

03-17-2021, 08:33 AM

Agree - he's a finesse player more like Free than Tyrique. Why do I have a feeling we're going to end up with 2 more of these guys and no post presence again?

Everything Steele does screams stretch 4 and ignores the Big East banger. He's overly in love with this profile of player.

That’s the thing though. If Xavier got any production from the 4 this year they would probably have lost three games. When your 4 scores like 4 points a game if that and shoots 15% from 3 it will be tough to win. So you better get some offensive production from the 4 to help relieve pressure off Zach. I would love get a great rebounder that can also shoot and be a threat. Not sure if the GW guy can help the rebounding but he would provide scoring and spacing to keep the lanes open. Wouldn’t be able to pack the lane making it tough for Paul to operate.

boozehound

03-17-2021, 08:35 AM

The staff has reached out to 6’7 GW transfer Jamison Battle. Battle commented on what Xavier told him which I found to be interesting. Here is his comments on Xavier.

Xavier: "I talk to coach Johnson, I know he is from Minnesota so he just told me that with the guys they have returning they need to add a few pieces and adding a piece like me would hopefully put them on the top half of the Big East and compete to make the tournament and help them out."

Not exactly an optimistic sell from the coaching staff around our chances for next year: "top half of the Big East and compete to make the tournament"? I'd like our coaching staff to at least believe we are capable of finishing top 3 in the league and making the tournament, even if it's not realistic.

Xavier

03-17-2021, 09:05 AM

Doesn’t he sound a bit redundant to others on the roster I.e Jones and wilcher and tucker from what ive heard? I know he has an inch or two on j and wilcher but sounds like a very similar game. Roster/lineup mgmt has been a key issue for Steele, Need a post guy.

Is Wilcher going to be a 4? I kind of thought he was there as a four guard sort of line up and more out of necessity. I figured his true position was a 3. A true Pick and Pop player is still something the roster doesn't have (Freemantle is fine at it but not great). I don't know anything about Tucker though.

Still need a post player, agreed.

xavierj

03-17-2021, 09:08 AM

Is Wilcher going to be a 4? I kind of thought he was there as a four guard sort of line up and more out of necessity. I figured his true position was a 3. A true Pick and Pop player is still something the roster doesn't have (Freemantle is fine at it but not great). I don't know anything about Tucker though.

Still need a post player, agreed.

I don’t think Wilcher can be a 3 unless he loses some weight and gets quicker. He is definitely a tweener. Great shooter who can provide scoring punch but kind of small to guard a traditional 4 and not quick enough to guard a three. Off-season strength and conditioning will be big for him.

Xville

03-17-2021, 09:09 AM

Is Wilcher going to be a 4? I kind of thought he was there as a four guard sort of line up and more out of necessity. I figured his true position was a 3. A true Pick and Pop player is still something the roster doesn't have (Freemantle is fine at it but not great). I don't know anything about Tucker though.

Still need a post player, agreed.

Yeah I think Wilcher is certainly more of a 3 but can play a 4 if absolutely needed. I guess I'm speaking more to skillset than position.

xuphan

03-17-2021, 09:15 AM

Not exactly an optimistic sell from the coaching staff around our chances for next year: "top half of the Big East and compete to make the tournament"? I'd like our coaching staff to at least believe we are capable of finishing top 3 in the league and making the tournament, even if it's not realistic.

That was my take as well. I didn’t like the wording that was used by our assistant coach. These are your players that you have recruited and developed. Have some faith that your players and your ability to coach will get this team to be a top team in the Big East next year. Have some confidence. That statement to me just sounded like a comment you make about a mediocre type team.

markchal

03-17-2021, 09:19 AM

Yeah I think Wilcher is certainly more of a 3 but can play a 4 if absolutely needed. I guess I'm speaking more to skillset than position.

Wilcher is def a 3...he was recruited more as a guard/wing. He didn't play a traditional 4, it's just when we went to the small lineup. He'd get killed by true forwards, so we'd have to probably mix in more zone if we're gonna play small.

XUGRAD80

03-17-2021, 10:07 AM

Fair enough! The umass big sounds like a perfect fit but with everyone courting him, figure chances of Xavier getting him are slim to none

Unless/until they change the rule.....I believe he’s not going to be eligible to play next year without some kind of waiver.

BigMoeMusketeer

03-17-2021, 10:22 AM

I don’t think Wilcher can be a 3 unless he loses some weight and gets quicker. He is definitely a tweener. Great shooter who can provide scoring punch but kind of small to guard a traditional 4 and not quick enough to guard a three. Off-season strength and conditioning will be big for him.

Let's hope we have to worry about Wilcher's off-season development at Xavier -- I'm not sure that is going to be our concern. For the record, I like how he plays, I hope like heck he stays.

Xville

03-17-2021, 10:31 AM

Let's hope we have to worry about Wilcher's off-season development at Xavier -- I'm not sure that is going to be our concern. For the record, I like how he plays, I hope like heck he stays.

I really hope you aren't hinting at some inside knowledge....

drudy23

03-17-2021, 10:40 AM

Not a funny rumor.

xavierj

03-17-2021, 10:41 AM

Wilcher is def a 3...he was recruited more as a guard/wing. He didn't play a traditional 4, it's just when we went to the small lineup. He'd get killed by true forwards, so we'd have to probably mix in more zone if we're gonna play small.

To be a 3 you have to be able to guard a 3. You think he can do that? He played the 4 when he was in this year.

ThrowDownDBrown

03-17-2021, 11:12 AM

Smails

03-17-2021, 11:22 AM

That was my take as well. I didn’t like the wording that was used by our assistant coach. These are your players that you have recruited and developed. Have some faith that your players and your ability to coach will get this team to be a top team in the Big East next year. Have some confidence. That statement to me just sounded like a comment you make about a mediocre type team.

Hold the phone guys.. This is the quote from a player who is remembering a conversation he had with a coach a few days before. There is a very real possibility/probability that he's not quoting our coach verbatim. Who knows what was actually said. I'm sure all of these conversations start to run together for these players after a while

D-West & PO-Z

03-17-2021, 11:39 AM

CJ needs to get in much better shape if he wants to play the 3. Like young Trevon he's better suited at the small ball 4 due to his lack of quickness and athleticism.

I'm not sure why people are so worried about going up against traditional 4's. There are way more teams that play with stretch 4's now then traditional big PFs. Against a team like Providence who thinks it's still the 90s you can play with two bigs. But against the other 90% of the country we'll be much better off playing smaller with more shooters. We all saw this year how limited the offense is when you play with two bigs that aren't great shooters.

Hopefully Tucker can come in and become that true stretch 4 for us like Kaiser was. Kaiser's defensive versatility matched up well playing next to Trevon, and his ability to shoot made our offense flow much better.

To me, the ideal scenario is getting a true 5, someone like Tyrique, and moving Freemantle to the 4 to be they stretch 4.

Free got abused on the block defensively this year. You can say lots of teams dont have those guys anymore, but we play against plenty of them in the BE, and we dont seem to be able to take advantage of them on the offensive end. So we need someone who can defend these guys. At least for chunks of the game.

ThrowDownDBrown

03-17-2021, 12:21 PM

To me, the ideal scenario is getting a true 5, someone like Tyrique, and moving Freemantle to the 4 to be they stretch 4.

Free got abused on the block defensively this year. You can say lots of teams dont have those guys anymore, but we play against plenty of them in the BE, and we dont seem to be able to take advantage of them on the offensive end. So we need someone who can defend these guys. At least for chunks of the game.

Zach is too slow footed to play the 4 defensively and he can't dribble or drive at all on offense. He's an undersized 5 who can somewhat shoot 3s. Against teams that play big you could try to play him at the 4, but he'd get abused defensively by most 4's. Zach will get stronger since he's only a sophomore but he's never going to improve his slow footedness or lack of athleticism.

We didn't take advantage on offense last year because we didn't play small very often. Carter was out there giving us 2 points in 30+ minutes most nights playing alongside Zach. We actually made our comeback against Gtown when we went small. They had so much trouble guarding us they eventually went small to match us. We also built our lead against Butler playing small, and then promptly blew the game when we went back to playing two bigs.

Zach is always going to be bad at defense. If you play him at the 5 and pair him with a small ball lineup of shooters then we can more then makeup for his bad defense on offense. We certainly would have to stress rebounding more to the wings and guards, but I'm very willing to put up with not rebounding great if it means we are a great offensive team. Playing Zach at the 4 just clogs up the lane on offense and makes us worse on defense. We might be a better rebounding team but at the expense of worse offense and defense. No thanks to that.

I agree we need to rebound better, but that needs to come from our entire team getting stronger and tougher. Let me know when a team that plays two big guys wins anything in March. The teams in our conference who play that way haven't had any tourney success with that strategy. You have to be able to score in todays game. Playing with two bigs combined with Dwon at PG is not going to be a good offensive team.

xukeith

03-17-2021, 01:24 PM

D-West & PO-Z

03-17-2021, 02:03 PM

Didn't we already have a year of Tyrique at the 5 and Zach at the 4? Wasn't ideal .

Jones could rebound but he struggled to score other than dunks.
Freemantle is strong on offense. He rebounded a ton better as a sophomore.

Griffin also was a good rebounder with limited offensive skills. Bryan rarely screwed up but we need a consistent big who can rebound and score (other than dunks) getting maybe 7/7 or 6'6. That might be asking too much from Bryan.

I'm not sure Griffin comes back anyway. I think its doubtful.

It doesnt have to be someone exacly like Tyrique (though for the record I dont think thats what didnt work about our team) but we need somone who can defend down low.

D-West & PO-Z

03-17-2021, 02:08 PM

Zach is too slow footed to play the 4 defensively and he can't dribble or drive at all on offense. He's an undersized 5 who can somewhat shoot 3s. Against teams that play big you could try to play him at the 4, but he'd get abused defensively by most 4's. Zach will get stronger since he's only a sophomore but he's never going to improve his slow footedness or lack of athleticism.

We didn't take advantage on offense last year because we didn't play small very often. Carter was out there giving us 2 points in 30+ minutes most nights playing alongside Zach. We actually made our comeback against Gtown when we went small. They had so much trouble guarding us they eventually went small to match us. We also built our lead against Butler playing small, and then promptly blew the game when we went back to playing two bigs.

Zach is always going to be bad at defense. If you play him at the 5 and pair him with a small ball lineup of shooters then we can more then makeup for his bad defense on offense. We certainly would have to stress rebounding more to the wings and guards, but I'm very willing to put up with not rebounding great if it means we are a great offensive team. Playing Zach at the 4 just clogs up the lane on offense and makes us worse on defense. We might be a better rebounding team but at the expense of worse offense and defense. No thanks to that.

I agree we need to rebound better, but that needs to come from our entire team getting stronger and tougher. Let me know when a team that plays two big guys wins anything in March. The teams in our conference who play that way haven't had any tourney success with that strategy. You have to be able to score in todays game. Playing with two bigs combined with Dwon at PG is not going to be a good offensive team.

What you said sounds great. You probably described Nova. Which is great but we are no Nova and arent getting those types of recruits.

Freemantle doesn't need to be able to drive to be the type of 4 we need, the fact he can step out and shoot it is enough to not clog the lane etc.

We have to find someone who can bang down low and give us meaningful minutes. Probably wishful thinking giving we have no prospects for this role. I am not even saying they need to start but we need them for the games we play against teams who are killing us down low, which happened frequently this year.

IM4X

03-17-2021, 04:32 PM

Do you mean “we”? Team game, as we know. I’m certainly not blindly behind Steele (the way you are opposed to him), but I like that he has some developed players who want to stay with him. He should get a 4th year, IMO, and I’m glad guys want to stay and play for him. I hope Steele learns and keeps growing into the job. Time will tell.

Blind spots.

He has some obvious blind spots and his unwillingness to properly address and evaluate every decision he’s made that just might have caused his team to lose is keeping him from improving the way a lot of us would love to see. Coming across extremely confident and giving off the perception he has all of the answers to his players, the administration and the media seems to be a bigger priority for him than admitting mistakes and growing from them. Unfortunately, if he does not become more aware of each decision he makes and how it directly helps or hurts the team, he won’t grow or be around much longer.

Growing pains are okay to see with new head coach. But next year we absolutely have to see more growing and less pain. He took a step forward by bring in some good shooters this for season, but then he took a giant step backwards by not making sure he had another BE level big on the roster. If after watching his team last year, he really thought Carter was the going to be the answer as a stopper and offensive contributor, then it raises a big red flag. If Steel just simply missed out on getting his top choices to commit (which I want to believe is the case) then at least he recognized there was an issue and tried to correct it. Let’s hope the coaching staff and the team can finally take several leaps forward this off season with much needed recruits and next season with a better roster with better line ups and smarter decision being made by the both the staff and the players.

IM4X

03-17-2021, 05:11 PM

What you said sounds great. You probably described Nova. Which is great but we are no Nova and arent getting those types of recruits.

Freemantle doesn't need to be able to drive to be the type of 4 we need, the fact he can step out and shoot it is enough to not clog the lane etc.

We have to find someone who can bang down low and give us meaningful minutes. Probably wishful thinking giving we have no prospects for this role. I am not even saying they need to start but we need them for the games we play against teams who are killing us down low, which happened frequently this year.

If they don’t start every game, they at least certainly have to be GOOD ENOUGH to start at the BE level (i.e. the big is objectively an asset and not a liability). In fact, we need TWO 6’ 10+ space hoggers who are proven stoppers, shot blockers, rebounders and scorers (at least capable of making easy layups and dunks). We need that so badly that I would be perfectly fine if Steele only went after and landed recruits/transfers who fit that bill so we can make sure we know we have at least one who will be the answer we are looking for.

It may seem like a tall order, but Steele has to make it happen - it has to be his number one priority and he has to sell it to the best available bigs
like never before - getting all of his own players calling and convincing them as well.

waggy

03-17-2021, 07:39 PM

xuphan

03-17-2021, 08:55 PM

Stanley is a player. If he doesn't get hurt we are still playing, even with the loss of Johnson. If he and Griffin both come back, I think we are in pretty darn good shape. Now if a proven transfer comes available, sure you take them. But assuming Stanley & Griffin are in, then you want an athletic big that can shoot the 3 and guard the perimeter, imo. The conference is full of these guys.

Stanley is trying to come back from a major knee injury. We don’t know when he will be ready and if he will be the same player he was before the injury. Some players with ACL injuries come back stronger and some never recover. I think Stanley is a big question mark for Steele next season.

xavierj

03-17-2021, 09:20 PM

Stanley is trying to come back from a major knee injury. We don’t know when he will be ready and if he will be the same player he was before the injury. Some players with ACL injuries come back stronger and some never recover. I think Stanley is a big question mark for Steele next season.

ACL surgery is not what is used to be. Most athletes are coming back quickly and you would never know they were injured. 6-10 months these days, with roughly 90% success rate. They have come so far with the technology.

xukeith

03-17-2021, 09:34 PM

ACL surgery is not what is used to be. Most athletes are coming back quickly and you would never know they were injured. 6-10 months these days, with roughly 90% success rate. They have come so far with the technology.

So I would be a bonehead fi I thought Stanley could not return to a knee and leg that was 90-100% capacity?

xavierj

03-17-2021, 09:40 PM

Heard either Murray or Pegues might be out at Louisville. Wonder if Travis will reach out of it indeed happens that one of them is not brought back.

waggy

03-17-2021, 09:47 PM

Would agree that the ACL has to be a concern.

And one thing about a "servicable" 5, is that it is not a magic elixir. Of course it would make the team more balanced offensively, but you still have to make shots. The team must shoot better. Good grief get some nads.

D-West & PO-Z

03-17-2021, 11:36 PM

Heard either Murray or Pegues might be out at Louisville. Wonder if Travis will reach out of it indeed happens that one of them is not brought back.

Pegues was the big man coach right? Who is ours Jonas? Honestly if we got rid of someone Dante may be the odd man out right? Him or Johnson.

UCGRAD4X

03-18-2021, 06:02 AM

So I would be a bonehead fi I thought Stanley could not return to a knee and leg that was 90-100% capacity?

Yes. But not necessarily for that reason. :nah:

Drew

03-18-2021, 07:12 AM

It's not satisfying, but to me 2020 is sort of a wash because of covid. Before the team went on a pause they were gelling and their identity seemed to be 3 pt shooting team. Missing a month and having only a month left totally killed this process. With Johnson and Scruggs possibly returning I am optimistic for next year.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 08:52 AM

Heard either Murray or Pegues might be out at Louisville. Wonder if Travis will reach out of it indeed happens that one of them is not brought back.

Are they the fall guys for not making the tournament? Or other jobs?

xavierj

03-18-2021, 09:02 AM

Are they the fall guys for not making the tournament? Or other jobs?

Not sure. Just heard rumblings that they would most likely have some staff changes. I am sure Mack is getting heat since Louisville doesn’t like mediocre basketball and mediocre recruiting. Which they have had since Mack took over. Louisville fans are not too happy.

Xville

03-18-2021, 09:20 AM

Not sure. Just heard rumblings that they would most likely have some staff changes. I am sure Mack is getting heat since Louisville doesn’t like mediocre basketball and mediocre recruiting. Which they have had since Mack took over. Louisville fans are not too happy.

I think this is a little overblown in speaking with my Louisville cardinal friends as well as my wife. Are they absolutely thrilled with Mack right now? No, but with Covid and the pending infractions, there is quite a bit of leeway here. Louisville has a top 5 class coming in for 2021 as well.

Louisville fans seem to be a lot more concerned with what penalties are going to come down, rather than not making the tourney this year. Being in this weird limbo is where a lot of the anxiety is coming from.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 09:40 AM

I think this is a little overblown in speaking with my Louisville cardinal friends as well as my wife. Are they absolutely thrilled with Mack right now? No, but with Covid and the pending infractions, there is quite a bit of leeway here. Louisville has a top 5 class coming in for 2021 as well.

Louisville fans seem to be a lot more concerned with what penalties are going to come down, rather than not making the tourney this year. Being in this weird limbo is where a lot of the anxiety is coming from.

That’s the thing though with recruiting as it’s the number of guys coming in. Yes it’s top 5 but they have 4 HS guys and one Juco. The highest rated HS player is a 4 star #68. They do have the number 1 Juco guy but you never know with Juco guys. They will probably lose David Johnson to the NBA draft and Williamson might transfer to get back closer to home. That’s the only 2 guys worth a damn in his first class. Louisville fans are not exactly thrilled with his recruiting and performance. They don’t care what is going on and expect 5 stars and deep runs in the tourney. On top of that they haven’t even been given the penalty for all the cheating stuff. Not sure if Chris survives it as he isn’t that great of a coach any way to get to where they expect. They struggle next year and he will be in trouble.

ThrowDownDBrown

03-18-2021, 09:51 AM

That’s the thing though with recruiting as it’s the number of guys coming in. Yes it’s top 5 but they have 4 HS guys and one Juco. The highest rated HS player is a 4 star #68. They do have the number 1 Juco guy but you never know with Juco guys. They will probably lose David Johnson to the NBA draft and Williamson might transfer to get back closer to home. That’s the only 2 guys worth a damn in his first class. Louisville fans are not exactly thrilled with his recruiting and performance. They don’t care what is going on and expect 5 stars and deep runs in the tourney. On top of that they haven’t even been given the penalty for all the cheating stuff. Not sure if Chris survives it as he isn’t that great of a coach any way to get to where they expect. They struggle next year and he will be in trouble.

Chris is a very good coach. To say he's not is just sour grapes. But he's not a great recruiter as a head coach. He leaves that work for his assistants while he goes to his lake house. He lost his best recruiter in Trav when he took the Louisville job, and for some reason he replaced him with his friend Dino. Dino is not exactly the hard grinding recruiting assistant Travis was. I wouldn't be surprised it he changed up his assistants. Luke never seemed to get many players for us while he was at X.

ThrowDownDBrown

03-18-2021, 09:57 AM

What you said sounds great. You probably described Nova. Which is great but we are no Nova and arent getting those types of recruits.

Freemantle doesn't need to be able to drive to be the type of 4 we need, the fact he can step out and shoot it is enough to not clog the lane etc.

We have to find someone who can bang down low and give us meaningful minutes. Probably wishful thinking giving we have no prospects for this role. I am not even saying they need to start but we need them for the games we play against teams who are killing us down low, which happened frequently this year.

Just because we aren't getting the same recruits as Nova doesn't mean you can't play the same style as them. Small ball is what the majority of the country is playing in college and the NBA. I 100% agree we need a legit center and I think Griffin could be that if he comes back. If he doesn't come back then we need to replace him with someone else. You can play Zach and a C together when needed at times, but no way in hell am I making that my standard go to lineup. The positives do not out weigh the negatives with Zach at the 4.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 09:57 AM

And just like that Luke Murray let go.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 10:00 AM

Just because we aren't getting the same recruits as Nova doesn't mean you can't play the same style as them. Small ball is what the majority of the country is playing in college and the NBA. I 100% agree we need a legit center and I think Griffin could be that if he comes back. If he doesn't come back then we need to replace him with someone else. You can play Zach and a C together when needed at times, but no way in hell am I making that my standard go to lineup. The positives do not out weigh the negatives with Zach at the 4.

Not sour grapes. Not a big fan of Mack and never was. Think he is extremely overrated and on top of that he is an asshole. Met him one time when I was swimming with my kids. Tried to talk to him and he couldn’t come off as more of a conceited prick. Xavier made him for sure and got him the Louisville job. If it were not for Trevon he wouldn’t be at Louisville right now.

bleedXblue

03-18-2021, 10:03 AM

Just because we aren't getting the same recruits as Nova doesn't mean you can't play the same style as them. Small ball is what the majority of the country is playing in college and the NBA. I 100% agree we need a legit center and I think Griffin could be that if he comes back. If he doesn't come back then we need to replace him with someone else. You can play Zach and a C together when needed at times, but no way in hell am I making that my standard go to lineup. The positives do not out weigh the negatives with Zach at the 4.

I think we need to move in a different direction than Brian Griffin. He was simply ok in my opinion. If we want to get better and improve, I think we need someone more physical and mobile. I realize that a big ask......

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 10:07 AM

Just because we aren't getting the same recruits as Nova doesn't mean you can't play the same style as them. Small ball is what the majority of the country is playing in college and the NBA. I 100% agree we need a legit center and I think Griffin could be that if he comes back. If he doesn't come back then we need to replace him with someone else. You can play Zach and a C together when needed at times, but no way in hell am I making that my standard go to lineup. The positives do not out weigh the negatives with Zach at the 4.

I am 100% in agreement with this. No desire to see a lot of two big lineups from me. The ceiling will never be as high with that approach (and you definitely don't need multiple NBA wings to be a really good college team with this approach), but some people just aren't going to get that and will continue to pound the table for more bigs.

GoMuskies

03-18-2021, 10:12 AM

And just like that Luke Murray let go.

That's what happens when you have a disappointing year and what we've been talking about with Steele's staff.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 10:17 AM

That's what happens when you have a disappointing year and what we've been talking about with Steele's staff.

It’s weird though as Murray was responsible for the two best recruits they landed under Mack. Williamson and Johnson. Something must have happened or a falling out. Murray is well respected and has interviewed for head jobs. I was at a couple of Xavier practices and he was very involved with teaching and was more intense than the other coaches. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him land at UCONN.

Xavier

03-18-2021, 10:20 AM

I think we need to move in a different direction than Brian Griffin. He was simply ok in my opinion. If we want to get better and improve, I think we need someone more physical and mobile. I realize that a big ask......

Yeah, he didn't pan out like some of the other bigs we have gotten through transfers. His body and frame is great for what X needed- rebounding, physical defense. Unfortunately his defense wasn't good at all.

Maybe both he and Freemantle looked worse than they are on defense because our guards got beat a lot? I don't know. Freemantle just isn't a defender.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 10:34 AM

Do we really have a big enough sample size on Griffin to know he can't play defense?

There were several games where he was more than comfortable bodying up big dudes and blocking some shots.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 10:41 AM

I am 100% in agreement with this. No desire to see a lot of two big lineups from me. The ceiling will never be as high with that approach (and you definitely don't need multiple NBA wings to be a really good college team with this approach), but some people just aren't going to get that and will continue to pound the table for more bigs.

Do you watch our conference games?

You seem to think we want the old school style of Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo in the lane. Or Tyrone Hill and Derek Strong. That's not what anyone is saying.

You need a serviceable post presence (back to the basket guy) to get buckets when either 1) the shots aren't falling, or 2) to take pressure off the perimeter when your opponent guards you high. You also need some semblence of a rim protector/enforcer on defense.

If this team had Nate Watson, it would be an instant Sweet 16 contender.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 10:42 AM

Do we really have a big enough sample size on Griffin to know he can't play defense?

There were several games where he was more than comfortable bodying up big dudes and blocking some shots.

In my view, he is definitely physical enough, but was atrocious in ball screen coverage any way Travis tried to slice it (hedging, switching, what have you). I do think Griffin is still a valuable piece and would like him back. Hard to believe that dude was playing D2, he's a way better finisher than I expected.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 10:45 AM

Do you watch our conference games?

You seem to think we want the old school style of Patrick Ewing and Dikembe Mutombo in the lane. Or Tyrone Hill and Derek Strong. That's not what anyone is saying.

You need a serviceable post presence (back to the basket guy) to get buckets when either 1) the shots aren't falling, or 2) to take pressure off the perimeter when your opponent guards you high. You also need some semblence of a rim protector/enforcer on defense.

If this team had Nate Watson, it would be an instant Sweet 16 contender.

I think the defensive piece is way more important. But generally we are in agreement. Obviously Nate Watson would be great, he is an excellent college player. I just don't want to overcompensate with a way worse version of Nate Watson, and IMO it's a lot harder to find that guy than we think (aka it's more than Travis just isn't looking for one, which I know is your stance).

murray87

03-18-2021, 10:49 AM

And just like that Luke Murray let go.

Not that I doubt you but I can't find this story. Any others dismissed with him?

XU 87

03-18-2021, 10:53 AM

XU 87

03-18-2021, 10:55 AM

That's what happens when you have a disappointing year and what we've been talking about with Steele's staff.

Sort of odd to fire your top recruiter. I'd take him back on X's staff.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 10:56 AM

I have my criticisms of Steele, but the fact that Nate J. is staying and supposedly Scruggs is supposedly strongly thinking of staying says a lot about they feel about Steele and the team's culture. If they thought Steele was a bad coach, I doubt they would be staying.

Or - he's kind of like their "bud" and lets them do whatever they want.

Probably need something in between Steele and Brannen. Brannen apparently has no clue how to connect.

I will say that connection is important (especially with today's athlete), and it seems Travis does that well. He just needs to make better decisions.

Xavier

03-18-2021, 10:57 AM

Do we really have a big enough sample size on Griffin to know he can't play defense?

There were several games where he was more than comfortable bodying up big dudes and blocking some shots.

Could be right, just felt like he got burned on screens all the time and seemed lost on help defense. But like you said I don't remember seeing him a ton vs other Big East bigs.

BigMoeMusketeer

03-18-2021, 11:00 AM

Heard either Murray or Pegues might be out at Louisville. Wonder if Travis will reach out of it indeed happens that one of them is not brought back.

Luke Murray is wet dough, but Mike Pegues is a MONSTER -- if Travis could somehow, some way, pull that off it would be HUGE. Would also be unbelievable for Freemantle's development moving forward.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 11:00 AM

Not that I doubt you but I can't find this story. Any others dismissed with him?

Don’t think anyone else is leaving.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1372541181188571138

D-West & PO-Z

03-18-2021, 11:18 AM

I am 100% in agreement with this. No desire to see a lot of two big lineups from me. The ceiling will never be as high with that approach (and you definitely don't need multiple NBA wings to be a really good college team with this approach), but some people just aren't going to get that and will continue to pound the table for more bigs.

I said in another post clarifying that I think we absolutely need a big who can play defense but I am not saying that person needs to start.

I saw plenty of games this year where X was just abused in the paint. Freemantle couldnt hold up against several of the BE bigs and were were outrebounded like crazy s several games. We need a big for those games ho can play. In those games theres not reason Free can't play with that type of guy for periods of time. I would love to have a guy who is a rim protector. St. Bonvaenture has a dude who is amazing down low blocking shots. We could have used that for the St. Johns game where they got about 20 dunks.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 11:23 AM

Most Big East teams have a monster in the middle. Some are simply role players, and that's fine.

bleedXblue

03-18-2021, 11:24 AM

Yeah, he didn't pan out like some of the other bigs we have gotten through transfers. His body and frame is great for what X needed- rebounding, physical defense. Unfortunately his defense wasn't good at all.

Maybe both he and Freemantle looked worse than they are on defense because our guards got beat a lot? I don't know. Freemantle just isn't a defender.

He might be the worst defender X has seen in a very long time. Being out of position is his biggest issue. He simply zones out and gets caught watching the ball way too much

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 11:27 AM

I said in another post clarifying that I think we absolutely need a big who can play defense but I am not saying that person needs to start.

I saw plenty of games this year where X was just abused in the paint. Freemantle couldnt hold up against several of the BE bigs and were were outrebounded like crazy s several games. We need a big for those games ho can play. In those games theres not reason Free can't play with that type of guy for periods of time. I would love to have a guy who is a rim protector. St. Bonvaenture has a dude who is amazing down low blocking shots. We could have used that for the St. Johns game where they got about 20 dunks.

A low usage rim protector would be a perfect fit. Xavier has had a lot of guys who can block shots (Reynolds and Tyrique), but no great shot blockers other than what we saw of Hankins. It sounds stupid but there's a difference I think. The problem is basically any team in the country can use a guy like that, so any of them on the transfer market are hot commodities.

D-West & PO-Z

03-18-2021, 11:37 AM

A low usage rim protector would be a perfect fit. Xavier has had a lot of guys who can block shots (Reynolds and Tyrique), but no great shot blockers other than what we saw of Hankins. It sounds stupid but there's a difference I think. The problem is basically any team in the country can use a guy like that, so any of them on the transfer market are hot commodities.

Yeah I agree that will be hard to find but I dont get people saying we don't need that. Finding a big who can defend (even if not shot block) is a must this offseason.

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 11:42 AM

A low usage rim protector would be a perfect fit. Xavier has had a lot of guys who can block shots (Reynolds and Tyrique), but no great shot blockers other than what we saw of Hankins. It sounds stupid but there's a difference I think. The problem is basically any team in the country can use a guy like that, so any of them on the transfer market are hot commodities.

Kinda like Dionte Miles? Who we never saw later in the year..even for a few?
“ TRAVIS STEELE ON MILES:
“Dieonte can protect the rim and block shots. He is very mobile for a kid his size.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 11:44 AM

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 11:48 AM

Do you ignore fact? He wasn’t dressed, wasn’t practicing and not available. Tough for a coach to throw him in the game.

I’m talking about for NEXT YEAR, dude. That is the discussion.
Keep up rather than looking for cheap shots.
Bring another transfer guy in, and recruit over your own guy= transfer portal.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 11:58 AM

xavierj

03-18-2021, 12:01 PM

I’m talking about for NEXT YEAR, dude. That is the discussion.
Keep up rather than looking for cheap shots.
Bring another transfer guy in, and recruit over your own guy= transfer portal.

You said we never saw even late in the year. Pointing out the fact as to why. Also if you have room and scholarships available why not use them? We don’t know what we have with Miles as he was a project that needed a great deal of help with strength. He was kind of robbed of that this past year. He is still young so this off season is very important for him to get bigger and stronger. If he puts on 25 to 30lbs he can help.

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 12:11 PM

You said we never saw even late in the year. Pointing out the fact as to why. Also if you have room and scholarships available why not use them? We don’t know what we have with Miles as he was a project that needed a great deal of help with strength. He was kind of robbed of that this past year. He is still young so this off season is very important for him to get bigger and stronger. If he puts on 25 to 30lbs he can help.

He played 4 minutes vs UConn on 2/13. The only 4 minutes he played after the Oklahoma game and the only 4 minutes he played in the entire calendar year.
Would be interesting to know what was going on since there are never any updates and then we hear that Daniel Ramsey says that he was/is 100% healthy. (Which I would expect since he’s marketing himself)

JTG

03-18-2021, 12:25 PM

I would think a talented big would be attracted to X, since there is obvious playing time available on a Big East team.

XU 87

03-18-2021, 12:28 PM

Or - he's kind of like their "bud" and lets them do whatever they want.

Probably need something in between Steele and Brannen. Brannen apparently has no clue how to connect.

I will say that connection is important (especially with today's athlete), and it seems Travis does that well. He just needs to make better decisions.

Do you have any proof that Travis is their "bud" and let's them do anything they want? I have a lot of criticisms of Steele, but I can only see these guys coming back as a positive. I don't understand why you seem to want to turn it into some kind of negative.

XU 87

03-18-2021, 12:29 PM

Kinda like Dionte Miles? Who we never saw later in the year..even for a few?
“ TRAVIS STEELE ON MILES:
“Dieonte can protect the rim and block shots. He is very mobile for a kid his size.

Why is that you continually think the best guy on the team is the guy on the bench who isn't playing?

And what would you like Travis to say publicly about one of his current players? "I have doubts about him playing at this level and he may need to transfer?"

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 12:37 PM

Why is that you continually think the best guy on the team is the guy on the bench who isn't playing?

Oh, I don’t know. Maybe because he was supposedly in our vaunted recruiting class of two years ago?
And, counselor, where did I say the “best guy on the team?” I only answered a posters wish list of “low usage rim protector” with a guy like that who we already have.
Is Steele a great recruiter or not? Does he get quality guys or does he miss on these guys who are supposed to be great? Or does he just misuse them?

drudy23

03-18-2021, 12:45 PM

BandDad

03-18-2021, 12:45 PM

He played 4 minutes vs UConn on 2/13. The only 4 minutes he played after the Oklahoma game and the only 4 minutes he played in the entire calendar year.
Would be interesting to know what was going on since there are never any updates and then we hear that Daniel Ramsey says that he was/is 100% healthy. (Which I would expect since he’s marketing himself)

Just as a clarifying note I went back and looked and he didn't even dress for three games in the 2021 calendar year, so clearly there were some medical issues there for Miles.

That being said, I would love to be able to get 6-8 minutes a half from him next year along with Freemantle and a transfer Big.

XUGRAD80

03-18-2021, 12:51 PM

Oh, I don’t know. Maybe because he was supposedly in our vaunted recruiting class of two years ago?
And, counselor, where did I say the “best guy on the team?” I only answered a posters wish list of “low usage rim protector” with a guy like that who we already have.
Is Steele a great recruiter or not? Does he get quality guys or does he miss on these guys who are supposed to be great? Or does he just misuse them?

Just about every coach gets some quality guys, and every coach misses too. They are not exclusive things. Recruiting is a crap shoot and while that class overall was rated by some services really high, part of that was just the shear number of recruits. Miles was not individually ranked as a high level recruit. Furthermore, there are some here on this board that saw him actually play in HS and said pretty much the same things that Steele said.....and added that he was going to need to add weight and strength before he would find any significant playing time. He has added SOME weight, but by all accounts still has a ways to go there and was injured for much of last season. He MIGHT contribute next year, but that’s been said about him for 2 years now...he might contribute. If X is able to get an established big that has shown that they CAN contribute next year, they will take them. Steele has already said that they need to get bigger and stronger. One way to do that is to get your returning players bigger and stronger. Another way to do it is to being in some other players that are already bigger and stronger. Hopefully they do both.

Xavier

03-18-2021, 12:59 PM

I do agree that the "Steele is a great recruiter" talk kind of has to subside if we have so many guys on the bench not contributing.

You can't have it both ways.

We haven't made the tournament yet so can you really say his recruits (internal or transfer) have really been stellar?

I think we knew right away guys like Trevon and JP were going to be top tier guys very early. Not so sure I think that way about any of our current players. Good players, but not the same level as those 2.

Thats a good point. I certainly think there are good player to build around but we don't have a top tier guy. Again...I really like Jones, Free, Odom, Wilcher. I think Both Freemantle and Jones have JP level talent.

I love JP and his attitude, what he brought to the team etc. but I think he gets remembered for being slightly more than he was, Freemantle is certainly in that talent range. I don't think anyone on the team is Tre level but he is also one of the best to do it at X.

XUGRAD80

03-18-2021, 01:03 PM

I do agree that the "Steele is a great recruiter" talk kind of has to subside if we have so many guys on the bench not contributing.

You can't have it both ways.

We haven't made the tournament yet so can you really say his recruits (internal or transfer) have really been stellar?

I think we knew right away guys like Trevon and JP were going to be top tier guys very early. Not so sure I think that way about any of our current players. Good players, but not the same level as those 2.

Freemantle has been all freshman and the 2nd team all BE in his first 2 years. I think he has a real shot at being 1st team next year. I also think Jones, who was all freshman this year, is going to be a very solid player for X over the next 4 years.

XU 87

03-18-2021, 01:23 PM

Oh, I don’t know. Maybe because he was supposedly in our vaunted recruiting class of two years ago?
And, counselor, where did I say the “best guy on the team?” I only answered a posters wish list of “low usage rim protector” with a guy like that who we already have.
Is Steele a great recruiter or not? Does he get quality guys or does he miss on these guys who are supposed to be great? Or does he just misuse them?

Should you recall, Miles was brought in as a "project". If we're being just a little bit objective, we would agree that usually means it's going to take a couple of years before the guy develops and improves to be able to play at this level, even assuming he ever develops to be able to play at this level.

At best, Miles was the backup center this year. We had three backup centers- Ramsey, Miles, and Griffin. Griffin won the job, and he played averaged 11 minutes per game. So I'm just going out on the limb here- but I bet the reason Miles (and Ramsey) didn't play is because there was another guy on the team named Griffin who was better than them and who took their minutes.

Despite the fact there are only so many minutes to the game, and only a certain number of players can feasibly get those minutes, for some reason you continually argue every guy on the bench is deserving of more minutes (See Ramsey, Miles, Elias Harden, and D. Bishop, to name a few). You also continuously argue that the reason said bench player is not getting more minutes is because Steele is misusing said player. And you refuse to accept the possibility, that maybe, just maybe, there are other guys on the team who are better, and that's why the bench player is sitting on the bench.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 01:36 PM

Kinda like Dionte Miles? Who we never saw later in the year..even for a few?
“ TRAVIS STEELE ON MILES:
“Dieonte can protect the rim and block shots. He is very mobile for a kid his size.

Yeah, if I'm Travis Steele and I need to win immediately, I'm sure as hell not relying on Miles to fill that role successfully next season. Why would you? Feel free to turn that into a critique of Steele (not that you need encouragement), but that's just the truth. If they can get a better version of the guy we hope Miles can be, you take him and never think twice. If that causes Miles to transfer, then that's life in college basketball in 2021. Let's not act like this approach is driving away a bunch of guys who can make a big impact at this level. The only possible case of that so far in the Steele era is Tandy and the jury is still out on him for sure.

I am not losing sleep over the loss of Bishop, Harden, James and the like, because those guys are not at all Big East players.

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 01:46 PM

I am not losing sleep over the loss of Bishop, Harden, James and the like, because those guys are not at all Big East players.

Or KyKy or Ramsey? Were they?
They were Steele’s recruits. Feel free to turn this into a critique and defense of Steele’s recruiting (Not that you need any encouragement to do that.)
If Miles can’t play that is 6 recruits gone in 3 years, and we have holes that need to be filled? Yeesh.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 01:57 PM

Or KyKy or Ramsey? Were they?
They were Steele’s recruits. Feel free to turn this into a critique and defense of Steele’s recruiting (Not that you need any encouragement to do that.)

Did you read the whole post? I explicitly said the jury was out on KyKy. Let's see where he ends up. I would comfortably include Ramsey in the Bishop/Harden/James bucket. I'd be shocked if he becomes a contributor anywhere near the Big East level.

The flip side of this point is Steele has put together a core of Freemantle, Odom and Jones from his first two real classes. Those guys all seem pretty legit to me. I think recruiting is fine if you're getting 3 guys over the course of 2 classes who have all-league type potential. Especially in the modern transfer era. If Steele can get old and stay old with that core, and get contributions from the 21 and 22 classes, things will be in pretty good shape. If he can't, then he'll be fired. That's why coaches get 4 or 5 years. It's not rocket science.

Masterofreality

03-18-2021, 02:03 PM

Did you read the whole post? I explicitly said the jury was out on KyKy. Let's see where he ends up. I would comfortably include Ramsey in the Bishop/Harden/James bucket. I'd be shocked if he becomes a contributor anywhere near the Big East level.

The flip side of this point is Steele has put together a core of Freemantle, Odom and Jones from his first two real classes. Those guys all seem pretty legit to me. I think recruiting is fine if you're getting 3 guys over the course of 2 classes who have all-league type potential. Especially in the modern transfer era. If Steele can get old and stay old with that core, and get contributions from the 21 and 22 classes, things will be in pretty good shape.

If,,if, if. We don’t know. Tandy was a centerpiece and on the All Freshman team.
Last time I checked you can’t just play 3. I like those guys and CJ but, brother after 3 years we have significant holes because of misses.
Another non NCAA year hoping for development. Not the X program I’ve known.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 02:07 PM

If,,if, if. We don’t know. Tandy was a centerpiece and on the All Freshman team.
Last time I checked you can’t just play 3. I like those guys and CJ but, brother after 3 years we have significant holes because of misses.
Another non NCAA year hoping for development. Not the X program I’ve known.

Yeah, obviously that's not an exhaustive list of who is on the team. I'd say it's a no brainer that Nate Johnson, Adam Kunkel and CJ Wilcher will make significant contributions next season as well. You're then hoping to be able to get something out of Miles, Tucker and Edwards.

I don't think anyone is on board with next year being a development year. The expectation, as always, is to play in the NCAA Tournament. Anything else is a failure.

xudash

03-18-2021, 02:11 PM

I have my criticisms of Steele, but the fact that Nate J. is staying and supposedly Scruggs is strongly thinking of staying says a lot about how they feel about Steele and the team's culture. If they thought Steele was a bad coach, I doubt they would be staying.

This point is being missed or glossed over here.

Travis has a lot to do to become a solid coach, but he certainly appears to be fully capable of building a close knit team with the players that buy-in fully.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 02:35 PM

I do agree that the "Steele is a great recruiter" talk kind of has to subside if we have so many guys on the bench not contributing.

You can't have it both ways.

We haven't made the tournament yet so can you really say his recruits (internal or transfer) have really been stellar?

I think we knew right away guys like Trevon and JP were going to be top tier guys very early. Not so sure I think that way about any of our current players. Good players, but not the same level as those 2.

I agree. Steele is not the “great” recruiter people on the board seem to think he is. He is not getting guys ranked in the 30-50. He is recruiting more in the area of the 60-150 area. If you look at how other Big East teams are recruiting, Xavier isn’t one of the top recruiting teams in the conference. Steele is an “ok” recruiter.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 02:36 PM

XU 87

03-18-2021, 03:23 PM

I agree. Steele is not the “great” recruiter people on the board seem to think he is. He is not getting guys ranked in the 30-50. He is recruiting more in the area of the 60-150 area. If you look at how other Big East teams are recruiting, Xavier isn’t one of the top recruiting teams in the conference. Steele is an “ok” recruiter.

I wouldn't call him great, but I wouldn't' call him "ok" either. I think he's been a good recruiter. He's recruiting players similar to what Mack recruited, although Mack got some top 50 players in Naji and Scruggs. Mack also had some disaster recruiting classes, like his last one that had no players in the top 200. And we have paid the price for that disaster.

Edit: I think Dwon Odom was top 50.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 03:33 PM

I wouldn't call him great, but I wouldn't' call him "ok" either. I think he's been a good recruiter. He's recruiting players similar to what Mack recruited, although Mack got some top 50 players in Naji and Scruggs. Mack also had some disaster recruiting classes, like his last one that had no players in the top 200. And we have paid the price for that disaster.

Edit: I think Dwon Odom was top 50.

That class was likely when knew he was out the door. I think Mack knew it was his last year long before anyone else did.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 03:37 PM

How many guys in school history has Xavier landed in that 30-50 range? That's not really where Xavier recruits.

If Steele is this Â“greatÂ” recruiter that people on this board say he is, he should be able to land a 30-50 range type player every so often.

XU 87

03-18-2021, 03:52 PM

That class was likely when knew he was out the door. I think Mack knew it was his last year long before anyone else did.

I know people think that, but those recruits were turning X down prior to Pitino getting into trouble, which I think was in October. That said, I did hear a rumor that Mack was completely lazy that last year's recruiting. So maybe there's some truth to this.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 04:04 PM

If Steele is this Â“greatÂ” recruiter that people on this board say he is, he should be able to land a 30-50 range type player every so often.

Well, Dwon Odom was ranked 59th and by all accounts Steele was a big factor in Trevon Bluiett and Paul Scruggs' recruitment. So he's been directly involved in almost every single player brought in from that range in school history.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 04:05 PM

How much recruiting does the head coach really do?

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 04:07 PM

How much recruiting does the head coach really do?

It seems like Steele is more directly involved in recruiting than almost any other head coach in the country. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a separate debate.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 04:10 PM

Well, Dwon Odom was ranked 59th and by all accounts Steele was a big factor in Trevon Bluiett and Paul Scruggs' recruitment. So he's been directly involved in almost every single player brought in from that range in school history.

I guess it doesn’t really matter how good of a recruiter he is if he can’t coach. Put up or shut up time Travis. This is your make or break year.

drudy23

03-18-2021, 04:13 PM

It seems like Steele is more directly involved in recruiting than almost any other head coach in the country. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a separate debate.

Probably a bad thing.

Being the CEO of the program is a way different job than being an assistant. There are so many things that go into success like hiring choices, culture, empowering your team to own their work, motivating, setting expectations. No different than any other leader in any type of environment. You can't be everything.

Olsingledigit

03-18-2021, 04:41 PM

That class was likely when knew he was out the door. I think Mack knew it was his last year long before anyone else did.

I will NEVER forgive Mack for his last year and how he ended things that year. He took what was a legitimate FF team and abandoned them and completely screwed up their tournament run. That is unforgiveable.

D-West & PO-Z

03-18-2021, 04:52 PM

How many guys in school history has Xavier landed in that 30-50 range? That's not really where Xavier recruits.

I agree with this and I think Steele has landed some great recruits, but to be fair most of Xavier's history is in mid-major conferences. I hope the goal as our time in the BE continues is to be able to land some recruits more consistently in that higher range. I'm not talking top 10-20 but more consistently top 40-60.

GoMuskies

03-18-2021, 05:15 PM

Xavier hasn't been in a mid-major conference in almost 30 years.

IM4X

03-18-2021, 05:27 PM

Not sour grapes. Not a big fan of Mack and never was. Think he is extremely overrated and on top of that he is an asshole. Met him one time when I was swimming with my kids. Tried to talk to him and he couldn’t come off as more of a conceited prick. Xavier made him for sure and got him the Louisville job. If it were not for Trevon he wouldn’t be at Louisville right now.

The Chris Mack recipe.

2 pounds of above average quality coaching talent
1 gallon of ego
1 barrel of bravado
4 cups of condescension
1 stick of prick
2 pints of platitudes
A splash white whine
A dash of duplicity
a spoonful of sanctimony
a sizable sprinkle of stubbornness
And just a pinch of playfulness

Note: This dish, often referred to as “Lucky Douchebag,” may leave a bad taste in your mouth- though it is a bit more palatable when served with several talented assistants who can recruit and develop well, a lovely wife and three adorable kids.

——
The term “douchebag” generally refers to a male with a certain combination of obnoxious characteristics related to attitude, social ineptitude, public behavior, or outward presentation. ... He has an inflated sense of self-worth, compounded by a lack of social grace and self-awareness... see “Current Louisville men’s basketball coach.

D-West & PO-Z

03-18-2021, 05:31 PM

Xavier hasn't been in a mid-major conference in almost 30 years.

We aren't in the A10 anymore, it's ok to say!

No but seriously A10 is just above mid major if you look at the numbers. There are 32 conferences so by just numbers the ones ranked 11-21 are probably mid major? and the others low major? A10 is ranked 9th this year, so just above I guess.

GoMuskies

03-18-2021, 05:41 PM

I think the A-10 is very close to a mid-major now with us and Temple moving out (you can't really count Butler given that they were in the conference for like 5 minutes).

XU 23

03-18-2021, 06:05 PM

I will NEVER forgive Mack for his last year and how he ended things that year. He took what was a legitimate FF team and abandoned them and completely screwed up their tournament run. That is unforgiveable.

How did Mack abandon the team his final year? Did he get a call from Louisville at the 5 minute mark of the FSU game? I'm confused.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 06:08 PM

Xavier hasn't been in a mid-major conference in almost 30 years.

This 100%. We all wanted the Big East conference to increase Xaviers recruiting profile. Heck, even Ewing pulled out a 5 star recruit in the class of 2021 and I wouldn’t consider Ewing to be a great recruiter. Time for Steele to show he this big time recruiter everyone is talking him up to be.

XUGRAD80

03-18-2021, 07:58 PM

Xville

03-18-2021, 08:06 PM

The A-10 was not, and is not, a major CONFERENCE. Xavier, Temple, and a few others along the way, were a step above the typical school in the conference, but that doesn’t change what the conference as a whole was/is. Xavier may not have been a mid-major school, but they played in a conference that most decidedly was looked at as one.

Yep 1000000%. I think those who think the A-10 was anything but a mid-major conference on the whole are kidding themselves. With that said, Xavier was a major program, and I’ll even say there were a season or two where the conference was a major, but for the most part it was a top end mid major that got 3 teams in the tourney.

AviatorX

03-18-2021, 08:34 PM

This 100%. We all wanted the Big East conference to increase Xaviers recruiting profile. Heck, even Ewing pulled out a 5 star recruit in the class of 2021 and I wouldn’t consider Ewing to be a great recruiter. Time for Steele to show he this big time recruiter everyone is talking him up to be.

Breaking news: Georgetown has a higher recruiting ceiling/profile than X.

Obviously we hope Steele can get Xavier into the next set of proverbial living rooms, but let’s not put the bar on the ceiling. He’s bringing in high caliber recruits.

xuphan

03-18-2021, 09:18 PM

Breaking news: Georgetown has a higher recruiting ceiling/profile than X.

Obviously we hope Steele can get Xavier into the next set of proverbial living rooms, but let’s not put the bar on the ceiling. He’s bringing in high caliber recruits.

A higher recruiting ceiling/profile than X? With that logic Villanova, UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown, and Butler have a higher recruiting ceiling than Xavier. How will we ever compete against these teams. My point is that posters on here tout Steele as a great recruiter. I’d like to see him consistently bring and keep high level Big East type talent to Xavier.

xavierj

03-18-2021, 09:46 PM

A higher recruiting ceiling/profile than X? With that logic Villanova, UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown, and Butler have a higher recruiting ceiling than Xavier. How will we ever compete against these teams. My point is that posters on here tout Steele as a great recruiter. I’d like to see him consistently bring and keep high level Big East type talent to Xavier.

You don’t think he has? I am pretty Sure Zach, Colby and Dwon have shown they are and wilcher looks to be as well as he develops. That’s his first two classes. And Butler probably has the lowest Ceiling in the league. Georgetown has probably as much to sell as anyone in the League. History, in DC, great well known University and has had some great NBA players come through there. We will see if his third class does as well.

xukeith

03-18-2021, 10:19 PM

XUGRAD80

03-19-2021, 06:10 AM

Ewing got that recruit because he is an NBA legend AND Hoyas are in D.C.

Doesn’t hurt that Gtown has been to F4s won the national championship, and because of people like Ewing has been a household name for years.

We were all excited when X left the A-10 for the BE. Why? Because we all realized that they were going to a higher profile and higher level conference. I used to laugh when posters would refer to it as the “Big Least” and try to convince others that the A-10 was its equal. Well part of that going up to a higher level of conference competition is realizing that it’s not going to be so easy competing with the schools X has in its conference now, as it was competing with the schools in the old A10. Everybody (other than Buttller) plays in a nice area now. Everyone has a budget comparable to (or in most cases higher) the X budget. Everyone is located in major metro area (no more going to Orleans, NY in the middle of winter) and is well covered by the media. There certainly aren’t any more easy pickings that can be counted on to be wins every year. And if you watch the recruiting websites you will see that often the kids X is going after and has offered scholarships to, are the same kids others in the league have targeted too. So far, X has for the most part held their own against 90% of the league. Villanova being the exception, but that’s true for everyone else too. We all want X to do more than that though. We want X to be on top year in and year out, and that hasn’t really happened yet. Even the year when X was champion...they were only CO-champs and didn’t win the conference tourney. The rest of the time they have been mostly mediocre.

Since this is a discussion thread about Travis, I’ll bring this back around to that....Is he the coach that is going to take X from being mediocre to being the class of the conference? Is he the coach that can not only compete with the others in the conference, but beat them? Beat them in every area...scouting, recruiting, coaching, winning?

I was willing to give him a couple of years to show what he has, to live up to the claims he made when he was hired. But I personally now doubt that he is the man that can raise the level of the program up beyond mediocre. That he is the man that can reach excellence. 3 years of teams that have not collectively gotten better as a season goes on has placed doubts in my mind that he can be the total package. To be quite honest, I also have some doubts as to the willingness and ability of the university to put the right people into the right slots to make it happen. I’m not sure that all of the problems lie in the head coach position, and that simply changing that position will solve all the problems. But it’s a start.

xukeith

03-19-2021, 07:58 AM

Doesn’t hurt that Gtown has been to F4s won the national championship, and because of people like Ewing has been a household name for years.

We were all excited when X left the A-10 for the BE. Why? Because we all realized that they were going to a higher profile and higher level conference. I used to laugh when posters would refer to it as the “Big Least” and try to convince others that the A-10 was its equal. Well part of that going up to a higher level of conference competition is realizing that it’s not going to be so easy competing with the schools X has in its conference now, as it was competing with the schools in the old A10. Everybody (other than Buttller) plays in a nice area now. Everyone has a budget comparable to (or in most cases higher) the X budget. Everyone is located in major metro area (no more going to Orleans, NY in the middle of winter) and is well covered by the media. There certainly aren’t any more easy pickings that can be counted on to be wins every year. And if you watch the recruiting websites you will see that often the kids X is going after and has offered scholarships to, are the same kids others in the league have targeted too. So far, X has for the most part held their own against 90% of the league. Villanova being the exception, but that’s true for everyone else too. We all want X to do more than that though. We want X to be on top year in and year out, and that hasn’t really happened yet. Even the year when X was champion...they were only CO-champs and didn’t win the conference tourney. The rest of the time they have been mostly mediocre.

Since this is a discussion thread about Travis, I’ll bring this back around to that....Is he the coach that is going to take X from being mediocre to being the class of the conference? Is he the coach that can not only compete with the others in the conference, but beat them? Beat them in every area...scouting, recruiting, coaching, winning?

I was willing to give him a couple of years to show what he has, to live up to the claims he made when he was hired. But I personally now doubt that he is the man that can raise the level of the program up beyond mediocre. That he is the man that can reach excellence. 3 years of teams that have not collectively gotten better as a season goes on has placed doubts in my mind that he can be the total package. To be quite honest, I also have some doubts as to the willingness and ability of the university to put the right people into the right slots to make it happen. I’m not sure that all of the problems lie in the head coach position, and that simply changing that position will solve all the problems. But it’s a start.

Nobody said coaching 13-15 teens and young 20 - somethings was easy. Each BE team has talent and top coaching to at least know the basics of defense and ball handling. I remember I pondered X might be more successful in the A10 due to the quality of competition. A10 is more difficult but getting to top 4 places in BE would benefit our NCAA seeding in BE albeit not as frequent as top 40 A10 days. How to win in BE? get the most talented recruits as possible and hope for no injuries.

XUGRAD80

03-19-2021, 08:02 AM

Nobody said coaching 13-15 teens and young 20 - somethings was easy. Each BE team has talent and top coaching to at least know the basics of defense and ball handling. I remember I pondered X might be more successful in the A10 due to the quality of competition. A10 is more difficult but getting to top 4 places in BE would benefit our NCAA seeding in BE albeit not as frequent as top 40 A10 days. How to win in BE? get the most talented recruits as possible and hope for no injuries.

The problem is that everyone in the BE is getting talented recruits. But that’s just the start. Once you get them, you’ve got to be able to mold them into better players and a better team. Steele hasn’t shown that he and the staff can do those things consistently enough, or at a high enough level, to be better than the others they are competing against.

Xville

03-19-2021, 08:20 AM

Doesn’t hurt that Gtown has been to F4s won the national championship, and because of people like Ewing has been a household name for years.

We were all excited when X left the A-10 for the BE. Why? Because we all realized that they were going to a higher profile and higher level conference. I used to laugh when posters would refer to it as the “Big Least” and try to convince others that the A-10 was its equal. Well part of that going up to a higher level of conference competition is realizing that it’s not going to be so easy competing with the schools X has in its conference now, as it was competing with the schools in the old A10. Everybody (other than Buttller) plays in a nice area now. Everyone has a budget comparable to (or in most cases higher) the X budget. Everyone is located in major metro area (no more going to Orleans, NY in the middle of winter) and is well covered by the media. There certainly aren’t any more easy pickings that can be counted on to be wins every year. And if you watch the recruiting websites you will see that often the kids X is going after and has offered scholarships to, are the same kids others in the league have targeted too. So far, X has for the most part held their own against 90% of the league. Villanova being the exception, but that’s true for everyone else too. We all want X to do more than that though. We want X to be on top year in and year out, and that hasn’t really happened yet. Even the year when X was champion...they were only CO-champs and didn’t win the conference tourney. The rest of the time they have been mostly mediocre.

Since this is a discussion thread about Travis, I’ll bring this back around to that....Is he the coach that is going to take X from being mediocre to being the class of the conference? Is he the coach that can not only compete with the others in the conference, but beat them? Beat them in every area...scouting, recruiting, coaching, winning?

I was willing to give him a couple of years to show what he has, to live up to the claims he made when he was hired. But I personally now doubt that he is the man that can raise the level of the program up beyond mediocre. That he is the man that can reach excellence. 3 years of teams that have not collectively gotten better as a season goes on has placed doubts in my mind that he can be the total package. To be quite honest, I also have some doubts as to the willingness and ability of the university to put the right people into the right slots to make it happen. I’m not sure that all of the problems lie in the head coach position, and that simply changing that position will solve all the problems. But it’s a start.

The administration part that you mention is my biggest fear with this program as well. I didn’t like the Christopher hire at all when it was first announced given his track record of hiring coaches and sports programs, and a new President coming in always brings about a bit of anxiety. I truly hope that what Xavier has built on the athletic side, specifically men’s basketball over the past 40 years doesn’t get completely torn apart.

Maybe it is coming, but I’m also a bit concerned that it has been 3 straight years of not making the tourney and there has been little to no change in the staff. I would think there would be some consequences.

UCGRAD4X

03-19-2021, 08:40 AM

The administration part that you mention is my biggest fear with this program as well. I didn’t like the Christopher hire at all when it was first announced given his track record of hiring coaches and sports programs, and a new President coming in always brings about a bit of anxiety. I truly hope that what Xavier has built on the athletic side, specifically men’s basketball over the past 40 years doesn’t get completely torn apart.

Maybe it is coming, but I’m also a bit concerned that it has been 3 straight years of not making the tourney and there has been little to no change in the staff. I would think there would be some consequences.

Yes. And that consequence is called mediocrity.

The house-cleaning should be swift and extensive.

Masterofreality

03-19-2021, 08:51 AM

Even the year when X was champion...they were only CO-champs and didn’t win the conference tourney.

Incorrect. We beat Providence at home to clinch a tie and set off the celebration. We had one more game at DePaul to clinch outright and we won and did.
I know. I was at both games.
BUT. We did not win the Conference Tournament

GoMuskies

03-19-2021, 08:53 AM

SM#24

03-19-2021, 08:55 AM

Even the year when X was champion...they were only CO-champs and didn’t win the conference tourney.
We were actually outright regular season champs.

murray87

03-19-2021, 08:56 AM

Yes. And that consequence is called mediocrity.

The house-cleaning should be swift and extensive.

These are good points. You wonder if the administration got lulled into an auto-pilot mode with the success of the basketball program and it was just too easy to plug Steele into the main seat after Judas left. Really should have been an extensive search. Maybe there was? Who knows but we're in a fantastic league for college hoops and can't think mid-major.

xukeith

03-19-2021, 09:00 AM

Villanova, Creighton, UConn, and Xavier have been getting better recruits than DePaul and SJU.

Masterofreality

03-19-2021, 09:00 AM

Jury is certainly still out on Christopher. He has made a hire in each of the three sports that actually matter (baseball, men's basketball and women's basketball). None of the three are disasters yet (I don't think Steele is in that category), but none have yet emerged in a way that make it clear Christopher made the right call, either. All three took over difficult situations for different reasons, but the jury is still out all around.

He promoted from within with assistants moving up on two of them, and previous to Melanie Moore he did with Ehlen too. He hasn’t exactly challenged himself on the searches. I also have a huge problem with him letting Golf Coach Doug Steiner go- the guy who gave us Jason Kokrak and Andy Pope, a Top 15 ranked golf program and 2 other Tour player grads.
Look, I like Greg but no question his selections/decisions are up for review and critique.

AviatorX

03-19-2021, 09:15 AM

A higher recruiting ceiling/profile than X? With that logic Villanova, UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Georgetown, and Butler have a higher recruiting ceiling than Xavier. How will we ever compete against these teams. My point is that posters on here tout Steele as a great recruiter. I’d like to see him consistently bring and keep high level Big East type talent to Xavier.

Uh, yeah, if you're living in the real world Nova, UConn and Marquette also definitely historically recruit at a slightly higher level than Xavier. Unless I've missed a few McDonald's All Americans at X. Creighton and Butler make their living in the same range Xavier does. Clearly there is some room for error and not a direct correlation to on-court results (see Marquette). Unless you want to hoist unrealistic expectations on Steele, it's not crazy to admit that these schools have a higher recruiting ceiling.

Xavier

03-19-2021, 09:28 AM

He promoted from within with assistants moving up on two of them, and previous to Melanie Moore he did with Ehlen too. He hasn’t exactly challenged himself on the searches. I also have a huge problem with him letting Golf Coach Doug Steiner go- the guy who gave us Jason Kokrak and Andy Pope, a Top 15 ranked golf program and 2 other Tour player grads.
Look, I like Greg but no question his selections/decisions are up for review and critique.

Yep. I think he has good vision and is a good fundraiser but I don't trust him to make a good coaching hire.

boozehound

03-19-2021, 10:14 AM

We were actually outright regular season champs.

I believe we lost to Nova 2x that year though, which was the only thing that kind of dulled that for me. Also the fact that we didn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament...

AviatorX

03-19-2021, 10:19 AM

I believe we lost to Nova 2x that year though, which was the only thing that kind of dulled that for me. Also the fact that we didn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament...

I totally get it. But I will die on the hill of defending that outright title. X played the same schedule as everyone else in the conference and finished with a better record, regardless of who they didn’t beat or who went on to win the National title LOL.

boozehound

03-19-2021, 10:27 AM

I totally get it. But I will die on the hill of defending that outright title. X played the same schedule as everyone else in the conference and finished with a better record, regardless of who they didn’t beat or who went on to win the National title LOL.

I can't argue with that - I wish that I enjoyed the outright title more. It just felt like we very clearly weren't the best team in the conference that year.

That was part of a pretty strange 3 year stretch for Xavier:

2 Seed that lost to Wisconsin in the second round
11 seed that sucked all year then got hot at the right time and made the Elite 8
1 Seed that lost to Florida State in the second round

IM4X

03-19-2021, 12:54 PM

I can't argue with that - I wish that I enjoyed the outright title more. It just felt like we very clearly weren't the best team in the conference that year.

That was part of a pretty strange 3 year stretch for Xavier:

2 Seed that lost to Wisconsin in the second round
11 seed that sucked all year then got hot at the right time and made the Elite 8
1 Seed that lost to Florida State in the second round

It is strange that under previous coaches the higher the ranking, seed and expectations for X, the worse they did. Conversely, when we were not ranked and a much lower seed with lower expectations, we seemed more often to thrive and have deeper runs in the NCAA tournament.

Too bad that trend hasn’t continued under Steele. Hopeful it will (or some positive trend) starting next year.

xuphan

03-19-2021, 02:26 PM

You donÂ’t think he has? I am pretty Sure Zach, Colby and Dwon have shown they are and wilcher looks to be as well as he develops. ThatÂ’s his first two classes. And Butler probably has the lowest Ceiling in the league. Georgetown has probably as much to sell as anyone in the League. History, in DC, great well known University and has had some great NBA players come through there. We will see if his third class does as well.

I donÂ’t think Steele has recruited well enough to be considered a Â“greatÂ” recruiter that others on this board have made him out to be.

UCGRAD4X

03-19-2021, 02:39 PM

I donÂ’t think Steele has recruited well enough to be considered a Â“greatÂ” recruiter that others on this board have made him out to be.

The proof is in the product on the court.

Always have said that you can't judge a class until a few years down the line. Unfortunately, players aren't sticking around long enough to find out.

MHettel

03-19-2021, 02:40 PM

I think Steele seems to have a good eye for talent. He has gotten us in early with a lot of guys that were under the radar. We may have been in the pole position for a number of these guys and then they end up getting more exposure and bigger "brands" often step in and steal our "claim."

That's kind of why I think people view him as a great recruiter.

UCGRAD4X

03-19-2021, 03:10 PM

Masterofreality

03-19-2021, 03:14 PM

It just dawned on me that Steele lost his last game of the year to a guy - Wojo- that lost HIS last game of the year by +20 and got fired today.
How encouraging.

Xville

03-19-2021, 03:16 PM

4 recruits left out of 3 classes. One of those 4 being miles who has barely seen the court. Anyone who doesn’t think that’s an issue, I want some of what they are smoking

Xavier

03-19-2021, 03:26 PM

4 recruits in 3 classes. Anyone know what those numbers looked like with Mack or Miller? At least with Mack it felt like we would see one transfer a year. Still expect to see this more often once the transfer rule is thrown out.

bleedXblue

03-19-2021, 03:53 PM

I was leaning in the direction of giving Steele one more year to figure it out.

I now think he's doing damage to the program that will be very difficult to not feel the effects of for years to come.

I'm officially not in his corner anymore.

SM#24

03-19-2021, 04:29 PM

I believe we lost to Nova 2x that year though, which was the only thing that kind of dulled that for me. Also the fact that we didn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament...

We were the outright, fully deserving regular season champs while clearly being the 2nd best team in the conference.

GoMuskies

03-19-2021, 04:43 PM

We were the outright, fully deserving regular season champs while clearly being the 2nd best team in the conference.

And the best team in the conference won the national championship while murdering everyone in their path, so that was okay.

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever

03-19-2021, 04:44 PM

Since this is a discussion thread about Travis, I’ll bring this back around to that....Is he the coach that is going to take X from being mediocre to being the class of the conference? Is he the coach that can not only compete with the others in the conference, but beat them? Beat them in every area...scouting, recruiting, coaching, winning?

I was willing to give him a couple of years to show what he has, to live up to the claims he made when he was hired. But I personally now doubt that he is the man that can raise the level of the program up beyond mediocre. That he is the man that can reach excellence. 3 years of teams that have not collectively gotten better as a season goes on has placed doubts in my mind that he can be the total package. To be quite honest, I also have some doubts as to the willingness and ability of the university to put the right people into the right slots to make it happen. I’m not sure that all of the problems lie in the head coach position, and that simply changing that position will solve all the problems. But it’s a start.

Your post is ominous. Given your alias, it is clear you are a long time observer of Xavier. Your many comments, over the years, indicate a somewhat more sophisticated understanding of basketball and of Xavier and its mission than other posters on this board. And, historically, your comments are more measured than those of us who post out of frustration with our coach and the direction of the program.

Now, you have cast a vote of no confidence in Steele which I do not recall seeing previously and which I did not expect. I might conclude that the early A.M. posting tells me you have been considering your position and felt a need to say at first light. Perhaps that's a bit much. More alarming than what I see as a change in your position towards Steele, is your view of the administration and its potential unwillingness to address problems in the program. That too seems new. So, to me, your position has moved away from Steele and it has hardened.

Having originally cheered the promotion of Steele, I no longer support him. He seems to be very clearly in over his head. I really want to be wrong in my evaluation of him. I'd much prefer to look back in a couple of years time and view my present concerns as an over-reaction. Your joining in my current assessment gives me pause.

Masterofreality

03-19-2021, 06:16 PM

Loyola Chicago. Sharpie

Solid Defense and great offensive movement.

That is winning basketball folks.

94GRAD

03-19-2021, 06:17 PM

Loyola Chicago. Sharpie

Solid Defense and great offensive movement.

That is winning basketball folks.

Tech playing without the ACC player of the year didn't help their cause

Xavier

03-19-2021, 06:32 PM

Masterofreality

03-19-2021, 06:38 PM

Knew MOR would be peacocking about beating Pastner without his best player.

Still, MOR has been on this guy for awhile. Looking forward to seeing what he can do in the Big East (DePaul). Admittedly surprised a bigger school doesn’t want him. Gotta think he can at least turn them into a good defensive team

Made no difference. Krutwig would have shut him down anyway.

Just watch the beauty of how they play. That’s all I’m saying. No statistics, just watch.

stammina0721

03-19-2021, 07:26 PM

stammina0721

03-19-2021, 07:35 PM

And I'm not some dude just blowing steam. I've been watching Xavier basketball since watching X play Marcus Camby at the Gardens. Dad took me on my first basketball road game to watch X play Purdue at Market Square Arena. I've been watching for a very long time with many fond memories. It pains me to say I'm done with them but I won't consume or spend one cent more on this product as long as Steele is still the head coach.

xuphan

03-19-2021, 07:59 PM

The Wilcher transfer should put the final nail in the coffin for Steele. Losing 3 young and talented guys so Jason Carter and Kunkel can help blow the final 3 games this year vs the three bottom feeders of the conference is inexcusable.

If any Xavier officials check the boards at all take heed of this. Myself and people like me are done with Steele. You may not give two craps what I say but just know the people who are average fans for a long time are disgusted and won't consume this product anymore as long as he is at the helm.

He gets one more year for me but I don’t want to hear anymore excuses from him. He has been here long enough and has had plenty of time to get his players in the program. The fact that 3 of them are leaving is concerning as it shows a sign of disgruntlement within the program. Time for Travis to show that he is a “great” recruiter and get the very best players in the transfer portal to come to Xavier. Sorry but DII players aren’t going to help in the Big East. For me, Steele MUST at least make the NCAA tournament the next two seasons or I will be Steele out. He needs to consistently start making the tournament.

MHettel

03-19-2021, 08:10 PM

Your post is ominous. Given your alias, it is clear you are a long time observer of Xavier. Your many comments, over the years, indicate a somewhat more sophisticated understanding of basketball and of Xavier and its mission than other posters on this board. And, historically, your comments are more measured than those of us who post out of frustration with our coach and the direction of the program.

Now, you have cast a vote of no confidence in Steele which I do not recall seeing previously and which I did not expect. I might conclude that the early A.M. posting tells me you have been considering your position and felt a need to say at first light. Perhaps that's a bit much. More alarming than what I see as a change in your position towards Steele, is your view of the administration and its potential unwillingness to address problems in the program. That too seems new. So, to me, your position has moved away from Steele and it has hardened.

Having originally cheered the promotion of Steele, I no longer support him. He seems to be very clearly in over his head. I really want to be wrong in my evaluation of him. I'd much prefer to look back in a couple of years time and view my present concerns as an over-reaction. Your joining in my current assessment gives me pause.

Damn. That's some English right there.

whopper

03-19-2021, 09:10 PM

sad to watch the sister Jean watch a nice win after a final 4 and our sister Rose not there. Sad to watch Davidson (who was made fun of by X fans for taking on JP 3 years ago) score 30 against North Carolina and other guys(Trice, Reivers) who started then coming to fruition now (same class as Scruggs and Naj). Nobody at X happy now and I swear that Kunkel and Stanley becoming eligible sooner was a double edged sword which started this ball rolling downhill (even though I think both have potential to help next year). Kunkel changed the guard rotation which caused at least one of the transfers and Stanley now is a question mark. Damn.

stammina0721

03-19-2021, 10:00 PM

He gets one more year for me but I don’t want to hear anymore excuses from him. He has been here long enough and has had plenty of time to get his players in the program. The fact that 3 of them are leaving is concerning as it shows a sign of disgruntlement within the program. Time for Travis to show that he is a “great” recruiter and get the very best players in the transfer portal to come to Xavier. Sorry but DII players aren’t going to help in the Big East. For me, Steele MUST at least make the NCAA tournament the next two seasons or I will be Steele out. He needs to consistently start making the tournament.

Well a fan like me will not put one more cent of support into the program during that time.

JEHARDI

03-19-2021, 10:49 PM

Made no difference. Krutwig would have shut him down anyway.

Just watch the beauty of how they play. That’s all I’m saying. No statistics, just watch.

Makes no difference, that is laughable. They are a good, well coached team but caught a big break.

X Factor

03-20-2021, 08:24 AM

Damn. That's some English right there.

I think that post raised all of our IQ's a few points.

Masterofreality

03-20-2021, 08:59 AM

Makes no difference, that is laughable. They are a good, well coached team but caught a big break.

Know who caught a big Break? Georgia Tech even getting there because of Covid.
Why did you say that? Because Krutwig is a big white dude? Hmmmm.
All I know is he has a Final Four on his resume and knows how to play.

Xavier

03-20-2021, 09:16 AM

You don’t think the ACC player of the year not being able to play is catching a break?

Xavier

03-20-2021, 09:26 AM

JEHARDI

03-20-2021, 09:30 AM

Know who caught a big Break? Georgia Tech even getting there because of Covid.
Why did you say that? Because Krutwig is a big white dude? Hmmmm.
All I know is he has a Final Four on his resume and knows how to play.

Wow, where did that come from. Maybe because they lost their leading scorer and rebounder, still shot 57% for the game and were within 5 with 3 minutes left. The game was won and lost on the offensive boards, GT had one, Loyola not a strong offensive rebounding team had their best offensive rebounding game since 2014. Yeah, Wright would have made no difference in the game! Keep showing how little you know about the game of basketball master blowhard!

Masterofreality

03-20-2021, 10:08 AM

Wow, where did that come from. Maybe because they lost their leading scorer and rebounder, still shot 57% for the game and were within 5 with 3 minutes left. The game was won and lost on the offensive boards, GT had one, Loyola not a strong offensive rebounding team had their best offensive rebounding game since 2014. Yeah, Wright would have made no difference in the game! Keep showing how little you know about the game of basketball master blowhard!

Scoreboard. Loyola moves on. They may very well lose to Illinois, a number 1seed, but your demeaning of any NCAA win is..........laughable.

94GRAD

03-20-2021, 10:11 AM

Well a fan like me will not put one more cent of support into the program during that time.

How much financial support will they be losing out on? Upper or lower bowl season ticket holder? All for One Donor?

Xville

03-20-2021, 10:59 AM

How much financial support will they be losing out on? Upper or lower bowl season ticket holder? All for One Donor?

Does that matter, or are you just being a prick? How about single game tickets, merchandise, concessions spent, etc.

94GRAD

03-20-2021, 11:01 AM

Does that matter, or are you just being a prick? How about single game tickets, merchandise, concessions spent, etc.

Yes, answer all of those!

Xavier

03-20-2021, 11:08 AM

Scoreboard. Loyola moves on. They may very well lose to Illinois, a number 1seed, but your demeaning of any NCAA win is..........laughable.

Yep. Tournament win is a tournament win, Xavier certainly lucked into a lot of breaks on some of there runs.

Xville

03-20-2021, 11:15 AM

Yes, answer all of those!

Not my battle, but yeah you are just deciding to be a prick for the sake of being a prick.

I’ll always support the program, even from 90 miles away and even though there is a coach of the program that doesn’t seem to be a good fit. Go to about 3 games a year, buy a whole lot of beer and concessions, bring the kids etc. always buy some merch and give to the afo fund though admittedly not a significant amount.

This is off topic but Xavier needs everyone. This is not Indiana where you can call one person and have them pay the 10 mil buy out and though I’ll never stop “supporting” the program but there are ones that will with significantly more resources than me if this continues. This program could turn into DePaul in an instant.

Xavier

03-20-2021, 12:21 PM

I don’t know that it’s that close to turning into DePaul. Unfortunately it does seem to be in the SH type category and that is certainly a step down. I don’t see them ever turning into perennial last place in big east category.

markchal

03-20-2021, 01:05 PM

Well a fan like me will not put one more cent of support into the program during that time.

I've been critical of Steele (and rightfully so) and was really disappointed with how this year played out.

I also believe next year is a make or break, but I cannot freaking wait to be back in a packed Cintas Center. I can't wait to watch Nate Johnson and these frosh, and to hopefully watch one more year of Scruggs.

Masterofreality

03-20-2021, 03:17 PM

I've been critical of Steele (and rightfully so) and was really disappointed with how this year played out.

I also believe next year is a make or break, but I cannot freaking wait to be back in a packed Cintas Center. I can't wait to watch Nate Johnson and these frosh, and to hopefully watch one more year of Scruggs.

I’ll agree 100 with this. If we are in this exact same state on the outside looking in a year from now, I’m pulling support for the AFO, but not the University. It has a mission to fulfill.

UCGRAD4X

03-20-2021, 04:50 PM

I think that post raised all of our IQ's a few points.

I didn't understand a word of it. I went to UC.

XUBob

03-20-2021, 04:56 PM

I agree with next year being make or break. I have been critical of Travis, to me, this year was the most disappointing in terms of talent and where the team finished. I hate excuses, that being said, I don’t know how much Covid messed this group up. Looking for more consistently, better defense, better game management and an NCAA berth. Anything less an a tough decision will have to be made,

xudash

03-20-2021, 05:05 PM

NCAA or bust.

Absolutely no late season swoon.

And some perspective: https://www.bigeast.com/news/2020/10/27/mens-basketball-villanova-selected-for-first-place-in-coaches-preseason-poll.aspx

paulxu

03-20-2021, 05:23 PM

Say what you want, but being picked last in the conference and going to the NCAA's is no small feat.

XUBison

03-20-2021, 06:24 PM

How much financial support will they be losing out on? Upper or lower bowl season ticket holder? All for One Donor?

This is a smarmy and vapid post.

Strange Brew

03-20-2021, 06:31 PM

This is a smarmy and vapid post.

Excellent use of smarmy!

Jumpin_Jamal_Forever

03-20-2021, 08:10 PM

I didn't understand a word of it. I went to UC.

Yes. Perhaps I was a tad loquacious and could have made my point more simply. How's this....................

All is Lost.

Strange Brew

03-20-2021, 08:43 PM

Yes. Perhaps I was a tad loquacious and could have made my point more simply. How's this....................

All is Lost.

Yes, wit and brevity should suffice.

Shall we abscond to the fire for Brandy and additional banter? :). I kid.

XUBison

03-20-2021, 09:40 PM

I don’t know if it makes me feel better or really sad watching Oklahoma move on in the tourney.

Masterofreality

03-20-2021, 10:03 PM

I don’t know if it makes me feel better or really sad watching Oklahoma move on in the tourney.

Oklahoma won without their second leading scorer tonight. Good coaches don't need or make excuses. They make adjustments.
They got better. Xavier got worse.

JEHARDI

03-20-2021, 10:48 PM

Oklahoma won without their second leading scorer tonight. Good coaches don't need or make excuses. They make adjustments.
They got better. Xavier got worse.

They lost 5 of their last 6 going into the tournament...

xavierj

03-20-2021, 10:54 PM

They lost 5 of their last 6 going into the tournament...

Don’t let facts get in the way.

JEHARDI

03-20-2021, 11:03 PM

Is Tony Bennet a good coach? Asking our highly qualified college basketball experts (MOR, Drudy, Xville)

xu82

03-20-2021, 11:20 PM

Is Tony Bennet a good coach? Asking our highly qualified college basketball experts (MOR, Drudy, Xville)

Don’t forget OTR!

XUBison

03-21-2021, 12:42 AM

They lost 5 of their last 6 going into the tournament...

So what?

XUBison

03-21-2021, 12:43 AM

Don’t let facts get in the way.

Of what?

XUBison

03-21-2021, 12:46 AM

Is Tony Bennet a good coach? Asking our highly qualified college basketball experts (MOR, Drudy, Xville)

Yes. His resume is really similar to Steele’s. Was that your point? What a moronic post.

Xavier

03-21-2021, 12:46 AM

Of what?

MOR saying they got better as season went along but they lost 5 of last 6. Those two don’t really go together.

OTRMUSKIE

03-21-2021, 01:08 AM

Never play a Mac team in the dance first rd. Those kids are always well coached from high school.

XUBison

03-21-2021, 01:26 AM

MOR saying they got better as season went along but they lost 5 of last 6. Those two don’t really go together.

They got a lot better throughout the season from when we beat them, no? They play in the best, or 2nd best conference. They made the tourney. They’re now in the round of 32. What am I missing? Facts?

stammina0721

03-21-2021, 02:02 AM

How much financial support will they be losing out on? Upper or lower bowl season ticket holder? All for One Donor?

Losing me and many like me. Turn your back that's fine. Find replacements for it

Xville

03-21-2021, 06:08 AM

Is Tony Bennet a good coach? Asking our highly qualified college basketball experts (MOR, Drudy, Xville)

You’re a clown.

XUGRAD80

03-21-2021, 07:47 AM

Really? It’s gotten to a point where posters are calling out other posters, and calling each other names? Did I stumble across a junior high school board here?

C’mon, y’all are better than that. If you’re going to call someone a clown, at least use a few adjectives to describe what kind of clown they are. If your going to get sarcastic when addressing another poster asking for an opinion, at least use quotation marks or put (sarcasm) on the backend so everyone understands.

With a little work we can get this board back up to its usual (lack of) class standards. I guess this long period of national angst, combined with the dismal last couple of seasons, has just worn everyone down to a point where the board comments have just gone bad.

Can’t we all just get along?

Ok..that was all sarcasm folks. I just felt that the morning was starting off way to dreary and down and we needed to laugh at ourselves a little bit. It’s going to be a beautiful day in the Cincinnati area and most of the country. Get outside and enjoy it. Xavier BB discussion will still be here when you come back.

Cheers!