Travis Discussion

[Strange Brew]

I want to be the first to welcome Pat Kelsey to Xavier. Welcome home and I hope you can keep the talent that we do have. I look forward to you bringing winning basketball back to Xavier. To coach Steele! YOU FN SUCK.

Welcome coach Pitino??

[Xavier]

Is there any real chance the butler embarrassment can push them to fire him

[HAAS_U]

I’ve seen enough, Trav needs to go. Just another f’n embarrassing end to a season.

[XU 23]

Time to revert to the original thread name.

[HAAS_U]

I’ve seen enough, Trav needs to go now. Another f’n embarrassing end to the season.

[XUBob]

There is no way to defend Travis after tonight. As I’ve said before I like the guy, he probably deserved being hired but it just isn’t working. It won’t happen but he has to go.

[XUGRAD80]

I’ve NEVER called for a coach to be fired. Been there, done had it happen, and it’s not fun....for anyone. I’m not going to call for his firing now. But I sincerely hope that Xavier has a new head coach before the end of April. Steele has a winning record, he has recruited some very good players, the players are all playing hard, and they all seem like good kids.

But....can anyone honestly say that the program is better off now than it was 4 years ago? Can anyone honestly say that they truly believe that it will be better off NEXT year with Steele as the HC? I can’t.

[MCXU]

Yeah, this sucks but it’s become clear. Travis is not the coach we hoped he was and it’s best for all parties to go in separate directions. There is no identity to his teams. He can recruit but he is lacking in player development and in game coaching.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I’ll try to start a new thread but they censor me. This board is ran by LIBS.

[X Factor]

With the right hire, Xavier can get back on track very quickly. The team is young and talented. They just need a coach who will not hold them back, but actually get the most out of them and improve throughout the year.

I think now would be a perfect time to bring in a new coach.

[Xavier]

Arizona and Miller are going to be cutting ties this year. Bring him back.

[Backyard Champ]

I think Steele has had a lot of bad luck go his way.

Losing a top 3 shooter in the country, who averaged the most minutes per game than anyone, is tough.

His teams clearly improved the previous 2 years imo. This year, they did not. A lot of excuses behind it, including the above.

After this debacle, I’d be all in if we could get Sean back. Other than that, I’m good with Steele. Our young players played a crucial role this year. A lot of potential out of that group. I think our seniors let us down in the last stretch of games. Scruggs had a great start, but boy his finish was ugly. Carter is Carter. No one expected him to be a leader.

If we can get Sean back, all in. Other than that- I think Steele gets and deserves another year. It is hard to rebuild in big East

[MHettel]

boy, I think I'd do it right now.

I hate the disruptive nature of bringing in a new coach. We lose players and recruits and inroads to recruiting possibilities. But we do this now or we do this later in our downward cycle.

We need to bounce. This needs to be the bottom.

If we make the NCAA next year as a 9 seed, Steele lives on. Then the next year we don't make it, and he's back in the hot seat. Then we make it. Then we don't. and 8-10 years later, we aren't a brand at all.

Do it now. Dump Steele, and hire a guy with legit D1 experience. A guy that has proven he can coach. I don't need an "up an comer" type of guy. I'd take a dude in his late 40s to mid 50s that has won at the big 6 level.

NOT Bruce Pearl...but Bruce Pearl. That kind of guy. Comes in and WINS.

[waggy]

If not Miller maybe Matta wants to coach again. I'd think Matta would already have a job if he wanted one though.

[Backyard Champ]

boy, I think I'd do it right now.

I hate the disruptive nature of bringing in a new coach. We lose players and recruits and inroads to recruiting possibilities. But we do this now or we do this later in our downward cycle.

We need to bounce. This needs to be the bottom.

If we make the NCAA next year as a 9 seed, Steele lives on. Then the next year we don't make it, and he's back in the hot seat. Then we make it. Then we don't. and 8-10 years later, we aren't a brand at all.

Do it now. Dump Steele, and hire a guy with legit D1 experience. A guy that has proven he can coach. I don't need an "up an comer" type of guy. I'd take a dude in his late 40s to mid 50s that has won at the big 6 level.

NOT Bruce Pearl...but Bruce Pearl. That kind of guy. Comes in and WINS.

Eh- I think if we keep Steele and make the tournament next year, the following year we would certainly be better. Especially with our freshman and sophomore classes right now.
If you think Steele is on track to make NCAA tourney next year, no way we look elsewhere imo. (Unless it’s Sean)

[MHettel]

Eh- I think if we keep Steele and make the tournament next year, the following year we would certainly be better. Especially with our freshman and sophomore classes right now.
If you think Steele is on track to make NCAA tourney next year, no way we look elsewhere imo. (Unless it’s Sean)

But Steele is an awful game coach, and he hasn't developed anyone.

You will NEVER win with a coach like that.

Take 10 dudes at the park and tell Steel he can pick the first 5 and the other five go to Rick Pitino. Give them 2 weeks to practice. Pitino blows his doors off.

If you cant coach on game day, then you are not a coach. That is where we are.

If we make the tourney next year it's because he couldn't fuck up the talent enough to NOT make it.

Dude. NOW!

[Double Down]

When you’re up 14-19 points on an opponent you put your foot on the gas and don’t let up! Period!! Nuff said!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Steele is 24-29 in the Big East.

He’s lost 11 conference games at home, including to every team in the league except Georgetown and St. John’s.

He’s 1-3 at MSG.

His career record is 18-0 in buy games, 33-37 against the rest.

The last two seasons have ended a combined 0-6 with 4 losses coming to teams under .500.

He has 3 wins against top 25 teams, just one each season.

[AviatorX]

boy, I think I'd do it right now.

I hate the disruptive nature of bringing in a new coach. We lose players and recruits and inroads to recruiting possibilities. But we do this now or we do this later in our downward cycle.

We need to bounce. This needs to be the bottom.

If we make the NCAA next year as a 9 seed, Steele lives on. Then the next year we don't make it, and he's back in the hot seat. Then we make it. Then we don't. and 8-10 years later, we aren't a brand at all.

Do it now. Dump Steele, and hire a guy with legit D1 experience. A guy that has proven he can coach. I don't need an "up an comer" type of guy. I'd take a dude in his late 40s to mid 50s that has won at the big 6 level.

NOT Bruce Pearl...but Bruce Pearl. That kind of guy. Comes in and WINS.

Who is this human being that fits your description and is going to come coach Xavier? Pretty obvious this program is not in a position to make a splash hire of that type.

[Backyard Champ]

But Steele is an awful game coach, and he hasn't developed anyone.

You will NEVER win with a coach like that.

Take 10 dudes at the park and tell Steel he can pick the first 5 and the other five go to Rick Pitino. Give them 2 weeks to practice. Pitino blows his doors off.

If you cant coach on game day, then you are not a coach. That is where we are.

If we make the tourney next year it's because he couldn't fuck up the talent enough to NOT make it.

Dude. NOW!

I understand he isn’t a great in game coach. I think his assistants are awful coaches and good recruiters.

But the “he can’t develop anyone” argument is bad.
Scruggs has CLEARLY gotten better. Freemantle literally just got most improved award.
He hasn’t had 3 full years to develop anyone. Last summer was killed by covid- and yet we had two players who clearly improved.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Steele is 24-29 in the Big East.

He’s lost 11 conference games at home, including to every team in the league except Georgetown and St. John’s.

He’s 1-3 at MSG.

His career record is 18-0 in buy games, 33-37 against the rest.

The last two seasons have ended a combined 0-6 with 4 losses coming to teams under .500.

He has 3 wins against top 25 teams, just one each season.

Think about that. In absolute must win games, against sub par competition, under Steele the last 2 years, Xavier has been at their absolute worst.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Nm

[Backyard Champ]

Think about that. In absolute must win games, against sub par competition, under Steele the last 2 years, Xavier has been at their absolute worst.

Hard to overlook that. For sure

Usually it’s when we are at best. I mean we take down top 25 team then lose 3 straight. All of which we should have won.

[SM#24]

Welcome coach Pitino??

Which one ?

[Strange Brew]

This is so bad I’m wondering if Steele lost this team and some of the players tanked him.

[IM4X]

Hire Miller- No
Hire A guy like Bruce Pearl- No

we need Matta back. I would tell Steels he needs to reach out to Matta (who doesn’t want to fly around watching and recruiting players with his leg and back issues) and see if he would come back to help in practice and with game day strategy/ situations. Otherwise we need to start thinking about cutting bait. Right now I just don’t see him growing and improving as a coach.

[SM#24]

If not Miller maybe Matta wants to coach again. I'd think Matta would already have a job if he wanted one though.
I think Thad does want one but is being picky. Pretty sure he would come back to X in a heartbeat. Love Sean but he is too toxic right now. Will probably end up with a show cause order.

[AviatorX]

If Thad Matta coaches again, it’s going to be for an obscene amount of money at a place like IU. I mean how can you seriously type out he’d consider being an assistant to Travis?

[XU 23]

Larry Brown?

[SM#24]

I know we focus on the games because that’s what we watch, so we opine on things like lineups, game plan, adjustments, in-bounds plays, etc. (and I agree with most of the negative comments). But what’s very concerning to me is whatever it is that is going on in practice. We always look ill prepared even when we start out with a good game plan. We don’t look sharp, decision making is poor, execution is poor, reactions are poor and so on; and I don’t think it’s lack of talent for the most part. Yes, we have our weaknesses but there is and has been enough talent to win more than we have.
I find tonight’s loss and performance the most embarrassing I’ve seen.

[IM4X]

If Thad Matta coaches again, it’s going to be for an obscene amount of money at a place like IU. I mean how can you seriously type out he’d consider being an assistant to Travis?

If he is interested in being the head coach at X again next year - give it to him- though, if he wants to ease his way back into coaching - where he doesn’t have to travel all over the place scouting/recruiting with his leg/back issues- maybe he is happy to start back slowly by helping out X and Steele in practice and games. Would have to pay him a pretty penny and it would be worth it.

[stammina0721]

I really don't care about what he did or didn't do. Right now Rick Pitino should be on a charter flight to Cincinnati

[IM4X]

I know we focus on the games because that’s what we watch, so we opine on things like lineups, game plan, adjustments, in-bounds plays, etc. (and I agree with most of the negative comments). But what’s very concerning to me is whatever it is that is going on in practice. We always look ill prepared even when we start out with a good game plan. We don’t look sharp, decision making is poor, execution is poor, reactions are poor and so on; and I don’t think it’s lack of talent for the most part. Yes, we have our weaknesses but there is and has been enough talent to win more than we have.
I find tonight’s loss and performance the most embarrassing I’ve seen.

agreed. I think that Steele making the excuse about poor decisions by players during the second half say a lot about his inability to figure out how to get his kids to see it and correct course.

[stammina0721]

Players are a reflection of leadership. Always have been always will be.

[GoMuskies]

It's funny, but our freshmen and Free were our only good players tonight. So you'd expect to get better next year with that being the case. I'm not super stoked to see Steele coach that group again, though.

[stammina0721]

Lost to the 8-9-10 seeds in back to back to back games with the NCAA on the line. What else needs to be said?

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think Pitino paying for the mistress abortion may be against Xavier policy. Xavier isn’t that desperate yet.

[GoMuskies]

I just can't get over how he used Carter when everyone with eyes knew Carter was bad. It's hard to understand how we can have the program in the hands of a guy who showed that same terrible judgment over and over and over again.

[Backyard Champ]

It's funny, but our freshmen and Free were our only good players tonight. So you'd expect to get better next year with that being the case. I'm not super stoked to see Steele coach that group again, though.

Agreed that they have shown potential. Which is why I would be fine with Steele coming back. If that’s his vision, it’s solid. I think he can get some transfers this year and we will be better. Mostly because all those minutes those young guys got.

If we make the tournament next year, I feel like we’d certainly be better the next year. I can see how we’d be back on track.
Steele is young, we knew that. If he can grow (which is up for debate) then I can see us bouncing back.

[GoMuskies]

I'd cheer for Dayton against a Pitino coached Xavier team.

[Backyard Champ]

I'd cheer for Dayton against a Pitino coached Xavier team.

Yeah, not sure why people seriously would go that route. Would be a disaster long term. Probably short term as well

[Strange Brew]

I just can't get over how he used Carter when everyone with eyes knew Carter was bad. It's hard to understand how we can have the program in the hands of a guy who showed that same terrible judgment over and over and over again.

Something odd struck me in the first 5 minutes. I could hear TS personally coaching Carter, a senior on where to be on the floor. Carter was rewarded for a normal play with a very aggressive low five like JC had just stuffed Jordan on a dunk. Don’t know if it’s anything but it was very odd.

[IM4X]

I'd cheer for Dayton against a Pitino coached Xavier team.

You and me both. Bad enough we have a coach lacking ability- we certainly don’t want to trade that in for one lacking integrity.

[stammina0721]

Yeah, not sure why people seriously would go that route. Would be a disaster long term. Probably short term as well

I'll take that bet

[JTG]

If we make the tourney next year it's because he couldn't fuck up the talent enough to NOT make it.

Dude. NOW![/QUOTE]
You just described Greg McDermott

[Backyard Champ]

Lol, he’s nearly 70.

Get the hell outa here “he’d be good long term for Xavier”

Just an awful take, sorry.

[stammina0721]

You and me both. Bad enough we have a coach lacking ability- we certainly don’t want to trade that in for one lacking integrity.

Then enjoy watching other teams play in March. X won't make it next year either. So they will go half a decade with zero NCAA tournament appearences at a minimum while they are asking people for thousands of dollars in donations just to buy season seats. I'll pass on that

[stammina0721]

Yeah, not sure why people seriously would go that route. Would be a disaster long term. Probably short term as well

After not making the tourney next year it will be half a decade with zero tournament games. Sounds like keeping Steele would be the worse short and long term plan to me

[JTG]

If Thad Matta coaches again, it’s going to be for an obscene amount of money at a place like IU. I mean how can you seriously type out he’d consider being an assistant to Travis?

Matta has already banked an obscene amount of money, as has Miller. Either could be comfortable for the rest of their career @ X. But Miller probably is too toxic. Face it, we f*cked up not hiring Kelseyville. He'll be on everyone's wish list 2 weeks from now.

[Backyard Champ]

Relax. It’s a tough time, but turning to a 70 year old who has had serious NCAA violations against him, just isn’t the answer.

[D-West & PO-Z]

agreed. I think that Steele making the excuse about poor decisions by players during the second half say a lot about his inability to figure out how to get his kids to see it and correct course.

Did anyone dare listen to his post game? IF he didnt straight up take responsibility and say he needs to get his program figured out than he is trash. ITs 100% on travis.

[drudy23]

Just got home - and boy what a disaster.

Once again, his decisions on personnel are unforgivable.

There's not much else to say. We all knew this collapse was coming because it was identical to last year. Pull some wins out of our ass in a relatively weak non-conference schedule, expose our warts as conference play starts, easily recognize he's being out-coached in conference once teams figure us out, and limp into the final two weeks expecting that same coach to figure it out. We all knew it was headed this way - we just didn't want to believe it.

What he's done with KyKy is criminal and Carter is delusional. There's just no other way to look at it. Pathetic.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just can't get over how he used Carter when everyone with eyes knew Carter was bad. It's hard to understand how we can have the program in the hands of a guy who showed that same terrible judgment over and over and over again.

He put his career in Carter's hands. It's inexplicable.

And its not Carter's fault. He's doing what he can. It is 100% Steele's absolute stubbornness or whatever it is. Unreal.

[drudy23]

He put his career in Carter's hands. It's inexplicable.

And its not Carter's fault. He's doing what he can. It is 100% Steele's absolute stubbornness or whatever it is. Unreal.

Inexplicable and brain dead.

It's like he is trying to prove a point. What a complete dumbass. There is no excuse for it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Say what you want about Steele's bad luck, the bare cupboard Steele took over, the injuries, the COVID, etc.

Despite all of that, two years in a row, Steele had a chance to win one game, in the first round of the BE tourney, against one of the worst teams in the conference to make the tourney, and lost.

[sgarcia]

Say what you want about Steele's bad luck, the bare cupboard Steele took over, the injuries, the COVID, etc.

Despite all of that, two years in a row, Steele had a chance to win one game, in the first round of the BE tourney, against one of the worst teams in the conference to make the tourney, and lost.

Didn't we have Q, Naji, Tyrique and Paul for Steele's first 2 years?

[Backyard Champ]

Q and Naji were both selfish players. They were not the leaders this program used to thrive on.

Scruggs was in the first half of this season. Last few games he was way too passive

[IM4X]

Did anyone dare listen to his post game? IF he didnt straight up take responsibility and say he needs to get his program figured out than he is trash. ITs 100% on travis.

Just listened to the small bit they aired on FS1. I think I’d throw up if I attempted to listen to his complete post game presser tonight.

[xuwillie]

Steele is complete trash as a head coach. Another year won’t change that.

[XUBison]

If Thad Matta coaches again, it’s going to be for an obscene amount of money at a place like IU. I mean how can you seriously type out he’d consider being an assistant to Travis?

I agree 100% that Thad is not taking a job as an assistant to Travis for a litany of reasons. But why do you think X can’t/won’t pay a coach? Thad was making just shy of $1M when he left, 17 years ago. Sean was making enough that he originally turned down Arizona, 12 years ago. Chris turned down several major jobs, and rumors were that X was offering him $3M to stay before he took the job at Skankyville. If true, that would have comparatively equated to the third highest paid coach in the SEC at the time, behind only Cal and Pearl.

So what’s changed? What is it you know about X’s financial situation that now precludes it from paying a high level coach at a competitive wage? I’m sure Steele isn’t making that kind of dough, but he had zero leverage and simply wasn’t in a position to command it. Is that why he is our coach, because we got him on the cheap? Is that what you’re getting at? I suppose we aren’t in the market for names like Scott Drew or Chris Beard at this point, but I’m sure Steele is making substantially more than most/all mid-major coaches. None of them are any good? Or is it that none of them would have taken the little old X job and Steele’s higher salary?

Now I suspect you will incredulously demand to know which coaches are better suited for the job, then I respond with a few names, and you tell me how stupid I am. Blah-blah-blah. It’s not my job to know. All I do know is that there are lots of good coaches out there... this is why the school has a whole department full of well paid professionals who are responsible for finding and hiring the right people. I mean, I had no idea who Thad Matta was, and there are countless similar examples of no-name hires who’ve had success at major programs.

So did X hire Steele because they were cheap, lazy, or because they genuinely believed he was the best available option? I’m going with choice number three, because the first two make me want to barf. I know you agree Steele is not getting fired this year, and I’m okay with that. Steele was green as can be when hired, so It’s possible the admin is disappointed right now, but they would be fools not to have expected he’d take his lumps.. From a hiring and investment perspective, how can they see him as off schedule yet? That said, I do think another year puts him at a very different position on that curve. I do not believe, however, that there are no other good options out there. I especially do not believe X lacks the resources to bring in a qualified candidate with a track record of success as a head coach. That whiny crap makes no sense when X has done nothing the past 40 years but dedicate itself to building those resources.

[waggy]

You had no idea who Thad Matta was?

[drudy23]

We got Steele on the cheap because he was an unproven commodity.

He still is.

He was the easy choice.

[IM4X]

He was the easy choice partly because the core 4 said they wanted him to be their head coach (at least originally) and the school couldn’t afford them all transferring.

[XUBison]

Who is this human being that fits your description and is going to come coach Xavier? Pretty obvious this program is not in a position to make a splash hire of that type.

Bumping this one to add context to my last post.

[XUBison]

You had no idea who Thad Matta was?

When Xavier hired him? No. I was a senior at X when the hire was announced, and the only thing that meant anything to me was when I heard we hired the Butler guy. At the time, Butler was a cute little program at most, and hadn’t he only been head coach there for one year? I guess I am a weirdo.

[waggy]

Well he was the #1 choice of the message board at the time.

[XUBison]

He was the easy choice partly because the core 4 said they wanted him to be their head coach (at least originally) and the school couldn’t afford them all transferring.

If there is even a modicum of truth to the notion that a guy with zero head coaching experience was hired because of concern players might transfer, then the basketball program, athletic department, and the university as a whole are doomed.

[IM4X]

Then enjoy watching other teams play in March. X won't make it next year either. So they will go half a decade with zero NCAA tournament appearences at a minimum while they are asking people for thousands of dollars in donations just to buy season seats. I'll pass on that

Trust that there are other great candidates more than thrilled to get the X job who have both the kind of talent and integrity the program desires.

[xavierj]

It’s kind of pointless to even discuss the next coach, at least for another year if then. Travis, unless he chooses to leave, will be back. The good news is that we have a solid core 4 and three really promising freshman. Travis has to figure it out. The team will need another rebounder, but I think we can pencil in 4 of the 5 starters next year. My hope is that Miles puts on weight and gets a lot stronger so he can play, I hope Ramsey can add something, Stanley can come back and have a healthy year and hope Kunkel can hit around 36 to 37% of his threes. But one thing is for sure whoever the 5th starter is he can’t be a guy that allows the other team to pack it in the lane knowing he can’t hurt them. A lot has to happen but Xavier isn’t making a head coaching change.

[XUBison]

Well he was the #1 choice of the message board at the time.

Ha! I don’t think I knew what a message board was at the time. Maybe if I could have accessed the message board on the juke box at Dana’s, then I would have known for sure. I was busy courting my wife at the time anyway. Oh, and loadingNapster songs on to my external CD burner.

Incidentally, I did start a “Fire Thad” thread on MM a couple years later after we lost to Ball State.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If there is even a modicum of truth to the notion that a guy with zero head coaching experience was hired because of concern players might transfer, then the basketball program, athletic department, and the university as a whole are doomed.

Yeah, that wasnt the reason. Sure players vote of confidence helps. But that wasnt the reason.

Christopher I am sure felt some pressure to hire the next coach the way Xavier had always (most of the time) had success hiring the next coach. Hiring the top assistant. Steele had been there long enough, and as the top assistant to make that the attractive choice. There had to be some concern about going away from that approach and then failing vs going with that approach and it not working but being able to at least have people understand that was the Xavier Way.

[IM4X]

If there is even a modicum of truth to the notion that a guy with zero head coaching experience was hired because of concern players might transfer, then the basketball program, athletic department, and the university as a whole are doomed.

I said he was an easy hire “partly because of the core 4 -not the only reason he was hired. Obviously the other part was that he was the right hand man of a coach on a X team that was quite successful- he also was responsible for recruiting many of the top players over the past number of years. Let’s also remember that Mack was just an assistant when he was hired at X. On paper, Steel looked like a reasonably good choice as someone who could continue to win at the level we had become accustomed.

[IM4X]

Yeah, that wasnt the reason. Sure players vote of confidence helps. But that wasnt the reason.

Christopher I am sure felt some pressure to hire the next coach the way Xavier had always (most of the time) had success hiring the next coach. Hiring the top assistant. Steele had been there long enough, and as the top assistant to make that the attractive choice. There had to be some concern about going away from that approach and then failing vs going with that approach and it not working but being able to at least have people understand that was the Xavier Way.

This too.

[XUBison]

I said he was an easy hire “partly because of the core 4 -not the only reason he was hired. Obviously the other part was that he was the right hand man of a coach on a X team that was quite successful- he also was responsible for recruiting many of the top players over the past number of years. Let’s also remember that Mack was just an assistant when he was hired at X. On paper, Steel looked like a reasonably good choice as someone who could continue to win at the level we had become accustomed.

No worries. I agree with everything after the part about the core 4. The core 4 aspect was gravy, but it had nothing to do with the hire, at least not consciously. If it did, it sure backfired.

[Masterofreality]

Did anyone dare listen to his post game? IF he didnt straight up take responsibility and say he needs to get his program figured out than he is trash. ITs 100% on travis.

Steele avoided the radio post game. I understand that because he is required to do the League post game in front of the Pool press.
But.... He ALSO totally avoided the PREGAME with Joe and Byron, which is really interesting because it was pre taped yesterday.

Maybe he had to “go out recruiting”. Or something.......

[Xuperman]

It's funny, but our freshmen and Free were our only good players tonight. So you'd expect to get better next year with that being the case. I'm not super stoked to see Steele coach that group again, though.

Yeah, that was an extremely poor job of coaching last night. Blowing another huge lead greatly adds to what is now a reputation for that. It's also official that he gets the "can't win in March" tag. He will be back next year but carrying alot of high anxiety baggage. After last night I am not stoked.

[Xville]

I don't think there is any way that he gets canned this year because quite frankly, it sounds like X can't afford it. At this point, that's the only reason he stays at the helm, and the administration will hope and pray he becomes even an average coach next year. He has become a complete abomination; everything to lineup management, roster construction, X and Os, and his gawd awful press conferences that don't inspire anyone into believing he has a clue how to be a head coach at this level. He's probably the worst coach in the Big East and that is really saying something.

[stammina0721]

Well he was the #1 choice of the message board at the time.

Not for me. I remember touting Larry Brown at the time. Xavier doesn't need to give first time coaches chances anymore. Where this team is now... We should be the ones poaching proven coaches, not gambling with unknowns

[bleedXblue]

I love Travis and think he's a great ambassador for Xavier and a great guy all around. Really hope he turns it around next year, but I just don't see it happening. I absolutely hate his style of play, offensive sets and more than anything his philosophy around defense. I think our program has lost the one key element that has been key to our success the last 30 years: TOUGHNESS. Mental and physical toughness. We played scared, tentative basketball in the second half last night. That is BS and all on the HC.

[XAVI3R23]

Maybe after all the years we spent laughing at Cronin, the basketball Gods managed to get us stuck with someone who is actually worse.

[Xavier]

Not for me. I remember touting Larry Brown at the time. Xavier doesn't need to give first time coaches chances anymore. Where this team is now... We should be the ones poaching proven coaches, not gambling with unknowns

Larry brown? Seriously? He would have been 75 years old fresh off getting SMU banned from the post season and 3 year probation. Now you want a 70 year old Pitino, who had similar issues at Louisville. Your coaching wants are....interesting.

[boozehound]

Maybe after all the years we spent laughing at Cronin, the basketball Gods managed to get us stuck with someone who is actually worse.

I want to type up a post to refute this. I'm not sure that I can.

[xavierj]

I love Travis and think he's a great ambassador for Xavier and a great guy all around. Really hope he turns it around next year, but I just don't see it happening. I absolutely hate his style of play, offensive sets and more than anything his philosophy around defense. I think our program has lost the one key element that has been key to our success the last 30 years: TOUGHNESS. Mental and physical toughness. We played scared, tentative basketball in the second half last night. That is BS and all on the HC.

I mean his offense can be fun when he lets the guys play. The first half was a thing of beauty. Spacing, pushing the ball, spreading the floor, moving the ball and taking good wide open shots. Then with about 12 minutes to go they go and play slow down with only 1.5 shooters on the floor, a clogged lane and no chance for an offensive rebound because Butler had 4 guys surrounding everything within 8 feet of the basket. They knew Carter and Odom couldn’t beat them so they guarded Paul and clogged the lane. Had Travis inserted Kunkel and Wilcher the last 8 minutes Xavier wins because you have to guard them. So with those guys on the floor the lane opens for drives and dishes or wide open threes. The game was lost because Travis played the way Butler wanted them to. There was no pushing and no spacing. A perfect storm to blow it.

[Olsingledigit]

I worry about transfers out, especially maybe Free. He was not happy at the end of the game last night. Travis might have a problem keeping everyone.

[xavierj]

I don't think there is any way that he gets canned this year because quite frankly, it sounds like X can't afford it. At this point, that's the only reason he stays at the helm, and the administration will hope and pray he becomes even an average coach next year. He has become a complete abomination; everything to lineup management, roster construction, X and Os, and his gawd awful press conferences that don't inspire anyone into believing he has a clue how to be a head coach at this level. He's probably the worst coach in the Big East and that is really saying something.

Well there is the promise of the young guys to bring him back. Xavier played its best yesterday with three freshman and a sophomore on the floor. That is at least something to get excited about. Now we need all of those guys to improve on weaknesses and get something out of the power forward spot and need Kunkel to revert back to his sophomore year at Belmont and good things can happen. One thing is for sure is that the pack line needs to go away and next year the offense has to be up tempo. No more slow down grind it out games. Play to the players strengths.

[throwbackmuskie]

I have said next year is make or break for Steele, but after the finish to this season, wouldn't be mad to see a move made, but that is not going to happen.

I will throw a couple of names out here to look at:
Scott Nagy at Wright State, been impressive at SDST and WSU
Dennis Gates at Cleveland State, I think he is going to be a fast riser.
Porter Moser at Loyola Chicago

[markchal]

We tried it, it didn't work.

He's a good recruiter, as evidenced by some of the young talent, but time to move on for the sake of the program. Very unconcerned with our next coach wanting to stay here forever (seemed to be a hope/emphasis w/Miller and Mack), will definitely be content going back to getting a competent young coach who wins big and leaves after 6-7 years.

[Lamont Sanford]

It's time to cut bait. The Travis Steele experiment failed. Time to move on. Why wait until the end of next season when the roster could be even worse?!? Do it now.

In addition to KyKy transferring out, I gotta think that Deionte Miles, Daniel Ramsey and Freemantle will explore new homes elsewhere. Freemantle practically ripped his jersey off as he left the court. He was beyond pissed at the end of the game. This roster could very well implode and set us back 2-3 seasons.

Greg Christopher...time to earn your keep and make the right call...now!

[Xavier]

I think they said Freemantle got into it with a Butler player at the end of the game, I would be pretty surprised to see Freemantle, Odom, Jones, or Wilcher transfer.

[X Factor]

Do transfers still have to sit a year?

[xavierj]

I think they said Freemantle got into it with a Butler player at the end of the game, I would be pretty surprised to see Freemantle, Odom, Jones, or Wilcher transfer.

Odom isn’t going anywhere as long as Travis is here. They are tight. Zach would be a fool because Travis let’s him do what he wants he is a captain. Wilcher now he would be more likely. Have no idea but he doesn’t seem to be as tight with Travis but I could be wrong. He knows he will play a lot next year so that would he a plus for him. Have no idea if he enjoys being away from home. As for Free being upset he should be upset with himself. He missed a key defensive rebound that allowed a stick back late in the game that could have sealed the win and in the first half he also cost them 6 points because he didn’t find the shooter on back to back possessions because he was being lazy and that lead to 6 points. Lead went from 19 to 13 in like 30 seconds. So that’s on Zach. Should be pissed at himself. I don’t think Jones would leave either but he is probably more likely than Zach or Odom.

[Xavier]

Yeah, got the best of both worlds from Zach last night. He gave us the jolt when he came back in. But man, it’s like he has no clue how to defend the ball during a pick and roll. Never throws his hands up to defend the 3 and they drained one late on him because of it. Paul also had one he didn’t have his hands up and they drained a 3 late. Scruggs just sorta shook his head in disbelief the guy made it.

[XUGRAD80]

Do transfers still have to sit a year?

Pretty sure that’s only a rule for the non blue bloods. (Sarcasm here)

But, yes, it is still the rule...for now. It’s been the thought by many insiders that the rule requiring a sit out year will be modified in the off season, and that starting next year the players will be allowed to transfer as undergrads 1X and not sit out.

I doubt very seriously that any of the top players transfer. I can see it with Tandy and I can also see Ramsey either retiring or transferring. Pretty obvious that Travis is not counting on either player being much of a contributor.

Of course, if X makes a change and Travis is no longer here next year, all bets are off.

[drudy23]

Every year guys transfer and this Board usually has a pretty good beat on who that might be.

Honestly, we may see several. I'd put money on KyKy, Ramsey, and one other surprise.

We're heading in the wrong direction. I don't think the players have confidence in Steele either.

[Lamont Sanford]

We're heading in the wrong direction. I don't think the players have confidence in Steele either.

BINGO! Exactly what I was thinking as well. That is a problem. The only solution...dump Coach Aluminum.

[drudy23]

Another fold down the stretch - Coach Aluminum indeed.

Crinkles like a Coke can - Steele my ass.

[Final4]

It's time to cut bait. The Travis Steele experiment failed. Time to move on. Why wait until the end of next season when the roster could be even worse?!? Do it now.

In addition to KyKy transferring out, I gotta think that Deionte Miles, Daniel Ramsey and Freemantle will explore new homes elsewhere. Freemantle practically ripped his jersey off as he left the court. He was beyond pissed at the end of the game. This roster could very well implode and set us back 2-3 seasons.

Greg Christopher...time to earn your keep and make the right call...now!


A few weeks ago on possibly a different thread someone with high praise for Christopher described him as a strong executive and capable fund raiser. That’s analogous, in my opinion, to telling me that my blind date plays the piano and has a good personality. I recognize that my view of the AD position is parochial but I just an AD who equips us with the best men's basketball coach (Xavier) money can buy.

[xavierj]

A few weeks ago on possibly a different thread someone with high praise for Christopher described him as a strong executive and capable fund raiser. That’s analogous, in my opinion, to telling me that my blind date plays the piano and has a good personality. I recognize that my view of the AD position is parochial but I just an AD who equips us with the best men's basketball coach (Xavier) money can buy.

Greg Christopher isn't just an AD. Is this abnormal?

Greg Christopher was promoted in July 2018 to Xavier University’s Vice President for Administration and Director of Athletics, following five years as AD. In this role, he serves on Xavier President Fr. Michael Graham’s leadership cabinet and oversees three university divisions: Human Resources, Intercollegiate Athletics and Marketing and Communications.

[boozehound]

Every year guys transfer and this Board usually has a pretty good beat on who that might be.

Honestly, we may see several. I'd put money on KyKy, Ramsey, and one other surprise.

We're heading in the wrong direction. I don't think the players have confidence in Steele either.

KyKy seems like a definite transfer. Not sure about Ramsey, with all of his injury issues. His PT may have as much to do with his health as a Coach's decision not to play him more.

[muethibp]

Been off this board mostly for the last couple years, in part because it’s just seemed so apparent that the program was adrift and hard to be excited about.

If circumstances were normal, I’d say it’s probably a year too soon to move on. These aren’t normal times. He probably deserves another year to show he has a plan for figuring things out. And they probably don’t have the money to move on anyway. I’ll also say that this years struggles from nearly all the true blue bloods shows that every college program is a bad recruit class/bad luck/bad injury from mediocrity. So, I try to keep things in perspective.

But let’s just say I’m not at all optimistic. He seems like a heck of a nice guy and I’m rooting for him, as ever. But everything he does - sideline demeanor, the huddle shots, media, social media - just suggest he’s in so very far over his head.

And while I struggle to describe why - it’s more “know it when you see it” - it is hard to feel like he has ever really had the confidence of or the backing of the players. Part of that is that Mack - never forget that he grabbed the first life vest he saw when the ship seemed like it would take on water - left the cupboard *so* bare and they were forced to go into the transfer market to keep the program/ship afloat. By nature coaches have not developed relationships with those players and it just seems like it shows.

These are the bad times.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe Mack wants to come back. The grass may not seem so green in Louisville these days (except for all the literal green he's been pulling in).

[Mrs. Garrett]

Maybe Mack wants to come back. The grass may not seem so green in Louisville these days (except for all the literal green he's been pulling in).

You could probably say this about every coach who left. Matta might be the exception.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I have said next year is make or break for Steele, but after the finish to this season, wouldn't be mad to see a move made, but that is not going to happen.

I will throw a couple of names out here to look at:
Scott Nagy at Wright State, been impressive at SDST and WSU
Dennis Gates at Cleveland State, I think he is going to be a fast riser.
Porter Moser at Loyola Chicago

I like Dennis Gates a lot. What he did last year with a depleted roster was impressive. And making the tourney in year 2 equally impressive. He won't be at CSU long.

Rumor in Chicago is the Moser covets the DePaul job and it will likely be available in a couple days. Moser is a local guy, has great ties with the local coaches and grew up attending Ray Meyer camp. Also, given the recent turmoil at Creighton, he could be an option at his alma mater.

Moser, like Travis was not overly successful early on at Loyola, and like Travis, family money may have kept him employed longer than others. Moser's family pretty much built the city of Naperville, an affluent suburb west of Chicago.

[GoMuskies]

Wes Miller UNCG is still my guy.

[throwbackmuskie]

Wes Miller UNCG is still my guy.

Talk is he is waiting on UNC....

Nagy would be my first choice I think.

[GoMuskies]

Talk is he is waiting on UNC....

Nagy would be my first choice I think.

Roy Williams isn't retiring particularly soon. He can wait at Xavier.

[RoseyMuskie]

I like the Nagy suggestion.

Craig Smith has an impressive resume at Utah State, and the advanced metrics indicate his teams play tough and solid defense.

John Beilein is aspirational. But if he’s interested in BC, why couldn’t X compete too?

Heck, if Archie is canned at IU, I’d swap him over Travis in a heartbeat.

[AviatorX]

I like the Nagy suggestion.

Craig Smith has an impressive resume at Utah State, and the advanced metrics indicate his teams play tough and solid defense.

John Beilein is aspirational. But if he’s interested in BC, why couldn’t X compete too?

Heck, if Archie is canned at IU, I’d swap him over Travis in a heartbeat.

Have you watched Archie at IU? It is basically a more depressing version of Steele ball with way more underperforming talent.

[markchal]

I'd take Sean back any day, he's an East coast guy and I think he'd stay here for a long time and do well.

Miss me alllll the way with the Archie talk, though, because he'd be a nightmare.

[RoseyMuskie]

Have you watched Archie at IU? It is basically a more depressing version of Steele ball with way more underperforming talent.

I don’t disagree. But he’s won on the big stage. Archie > Steele. It may be a low bar, but it’s still an upgrade.

[drudy23]

There's zero chance they go back to Sean. He's even in deeper sh*t now. He might be done for a couple years like Pitino was.

[JTG]

Every year guys transfer and this Board usually has a pretty good beat on who that might be.

Honestly, we may see several. I'd put money on KyKy, Ramsey, and one other surprise.

We're heading in the wrong direction. I don't think the players have confidence in Steele either.

Where is Ramsey going to go ? He's practically an invalid, with his legs. Sorry it didn't work out, but is he leaves, so what ? I wished it had worked.

[drudy23]

Where is Ramsey going to go ? He's practically an invalid, with his legs. Sorry it didn't work out, but is he leaves, so what ? I wished it had worked.

Agree - at the same time, just saying what's the point of staying? I have a feeling there's more to the story than just his health.

[throwbackmuskie]

I like the Nagy suggestion.

Craig Smith has an impressive resume at Utah State, and the advanced metrics indicate his teams play tough and solid defense.

John Beilein is aspirational. But if he’s interested in BC, why couldn’t X compete too?

Heck, if Archie is canned at IU, I’d swap him over Travis in a heartbeat.

Hard pass on Archie.

[GoMuskies]

Agree - at the same time, just saying what's the point of staying? I have a feeling there's more to the story than just his health.

His future is clearly outside of basketball at this point. The free $50k/year college education could be a pretty good reason to stay.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Last night the worst offensive player in our rotation played the 3rd most mins, took the most shots, and had the worst FG%. This includes 2 horrid drives and chucks towards the end of regulation. This in a game where we were dying for offense.

That is horrible coaching.

[RoseyMuskie]

Hard pass on Archie.

That’s fine. Thoughts on the other options though?

[drudy23]

Last night the worst offensive player in our rotation played the 3rd most mins, took the most shots, and had the worst FG%. This includes 2 horrid drives and chucks towards the end of regulation. This in a game where we were dying for offense.

That is horrible coaching.

Not just last night - for 2 YEARS!!

[Xavier]

There's zero chance they go back to Sean. He's even in deeper sh*t now. He might be done for a couple years like Pitino was.

Interesting, I thought the things that came out weren't as bad as they anticipated.

Beilein is a major pipe dream. I agree though if he was realistically looking at BC then X could compete with them...probably not $$ wise though.

[throwbackmuskie]

That’s fine. Thoughts on the other options though?

I gave my list.

Smith at USU would be down the list.

Beilein for me would be a stop gab, he's pushing 70.

[IM4X]

Hard pass on Archie.

I second that.

The standard is the standard at X- it must not change. We need a coach who is going to take us to the next level (Final Four and beyond) not just someone who may be a slight improvement to our current situation.

[LOLmickcronin]

Last night the worst offensive player in our rotation played the 3rd most mins, took the most shots, and had the worst FG%. This includes 2 horrid drives and chucks towards the end of regulation. This in a game where we were dying for offense.

That is horrible coaching.

This is what really got me. I get that coaches see things in practice we don’t get to see and that it’s easy to complain about X’s and O’s but that we don’t know as much as the coaches do about that.

But one of the biggest things in coaching is just having a feel for you guys and a feel for the game. We needed a couple late huge buckets and he allowed a guy who had looked and played awful for months to have it run through him. When we have scorers sitting on the bench getting ZERO minutes. That’s just a really bad job. It’s a coach who is flat out putting the emphasis on the wrong things and blatantly choosing to whatever “his method” is over just trying to win.

[JTG]

Beilein for me would be a stop gab, he's pushing 70.

But he would attract some really high quality assistants, that could take over 4 or 5 years down the road. I still wouldn't mind Thad. He's made his fortune. Miller probably too toxic still. Kelsey will probably be in line for a top shelf job. We totally effed up on not hiring him. Winning that many games in any conference shows you know what you're doing.

[Xavier]

I thought he accepted a job then right before the press conference he went back on it? He could be a good coach but I get why you don't love that commitment history. I think he could be in line for a Xavier type job now, not sure much higher though.

I think Greg saw Travis as 2 things. 1- we follow the same success X has had the past two hires, it had been a proven strategy. 2- He probably liked the idea that Travis could be a long term hire.

I still don't blame him on the hire. I will certainly blame him on holding on to Steele too long if he does.

[throwbackmuskie]

But he would attract some really high quality assistants, that could take over 4 or 5 years down the road. I still wouldn't mind Thad. He's made his fortune. Miller probably too toxic still. Kelsey will probably be in line for a top shelf job. We totally effed up on not hiring him. Winning that many games in any conference shows you know what you're doing.

I would understand hiring Beilein, I just think there are other coaches out there who can do just as well, and hopefully be a long term solution.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I've stayed out of this thread because I have been hammered on here for three years questioning both Travis' abilities, as well as Greg Christopher's ability to hire. I'm not going to "I told you so" everyone, but I am happy to see FINALLY people have opened their eyes to the fact that this is a great dude in the wrong job. Christopher's revenue-generating sports' hires at Bowling Green and Xavier are well-documented, and they aren't great (to be VERY kind).

Travis will likely get another year, although with a New President and a school that DESPERATELY needs Men's Basketball to be good for enrollment reasons long-term, it is a wild-card. I'm not sure anyone can convince me that next year will be any different / better, so I'm not sure what kicking the can down the road gets you. His staff was always wrong, he HAD to have a veteran coach on his bench to help him (see: Martelli with Juwan Howard at Michigan), but with essentially two peers of his and a local, well thought of (mostly) former player. Save me the Matthew Graves talk, again, not a guy's whose track record as a head guy will knock anyone's socks off.

I don't know how anyone can talk about ANY player as "I'd be surprised if they transferred," it is the wild, wild west right now, all bet's are off, and there are LOTS of shiny programs right now much closer to an NCAA 2nd weekend appearance than Xavier is.

Been nearly 40 years since Xavier missed 3 straight Tournaments...unreal. Bob Staack and Tony Yates are back at the helms in the Queen City.

What a shame, this was so avoidable, but yet, here we are.

If he is back, and I expect he will be, I would expect a major turnover on the staff. Travis is a VERY nice guy, affable, friendly, and the team very much has taken on his personality as their team's identity. No edge. No "dog", if you will. This team plays soft, plays with a very low basketball IQ (we thought that would change with Naji's departure...hmmm), and continues to make poor decision after poor decision.

Oh well, let's see what kind of appetite Father Graham (what he is leaving behind), the Board of Trustees, and the new President have for more of this. Probably a lot of interesting conversations taking place with, and about, Greg and the state of Xavier Athletics in general, and MBB (and WBB) in particular.

[bjf123]

I thought he accepted a job then right before the press conference he went back on it? He could be a good coach but I get why you don't love that commitment history. I think he could be in line for a Xavier type job now, not sure much higher though.

I think Greg saw Travis as 2 things. 1- we follow the same success X has had the past two hires, it had been a proven strategy. 2- He probably liked the idea that Travis could be a long term hire.

I still don't blame him on the hire. I will certainly blame him on holding on to Steele too long if he does.

Agreed. Not knowing who else was interviewed, Steele seemed like a good hire. It’s just not playing out that way. I’d still like to see him turn it around and be successful here long term. I’m just not sure he survives this year’s collapse, though COVID, and the disruption to any kind of normalcy, probably gets him another year. Miss the tournament next year and I’m sure he’s toast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xavierj]

Agreed. Not knowing who else was interviewed, Steele seemed like a good hire. It’s just not playing out that way. I’d still like to see him turn it around and be successful here long term. I’m just not sure he survives this year’s collapse, though COVID, and the disruption to any kind of normalcy, probably gets him another year. Miss the tournament next year and I’m sure he’s toast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right. Next year will tell us everything about Travis as a coach. No excuses. I am by no means comparing him to Jay Wright and hope someday Xavier has a coach half as successful as him, but his first three years were rough. His third year he was 6-10 in conference and 18-17 overall. His third season was lead by his guys. 4 sophomores and a freshman. His 4th season his vision took off. We can only hope this is just a blip and we see similar progress next year. Will have enough talent just need to add too it, nurture it and grow it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Right. Next year will tell us everything about Travis as a coach. No excuses. I am by no means comparing him to Jay Wright and hope someday Xavier has a coach half as successful as him, but his first three years were rough. His third year he was 6-10 in conference and 18-17 overall. His third season was lead by his guys. 4 sophomores and a freshman. His 4th season his vision took off. We can only hope this is just a blip and we see similar progress next year. Will have enough talent just need to add too it, nurture it and grow it.

Jay Wright took over a program that had missed 3 of the past 4 tourneys and hadnt been past the second round since 14 years before he got there. He took over program in pretty bad shape.

Steele took over a program who consistently made and advanced in the tournament.

[AviatorX]

Jay Wright took over a program that had missed 3 of the past 4 tourneys and hadnt been past the second round since 14 years before he got there. He took over program in pretty bad shape.

Steele took over a program who consistently made and advanced in the tournament.

Also Jay Wright's 4th season was a 5 seed with a 1 point loss in the Sweet 16, his 5th season ended with a 1 seed and Elite 8. If Travis does that I think all will be good.

By this point, Wright had already reeled in Allan Ray (2nd team AA), Randy Foye (1st team AA and top 10 draft pick) and Kyle Lowry (first round draft pick). These comparisons are so dumb unless Travis is hiding a few McDonald's All Americans we don't know about.

[SM#24]

Jay Wright also had a proven track record at Hofstra.

[bleedXblue]

Last night the worst offensive player in our rotation played the 3rd most mins, took the most shots, and had the worst FG%. This includes 2 horrid drives and chucks towards the end of regulation. This in a game where we were dying for offense.

That is horrible coaching.

Banners thinks we got good looks land took good shots in the 2nd half last night.......they just didn't go in?

[bleedXblue]

i've stayed out of this thread because i have been hammered on here for three years questioning both travis' abilities, as well as greg christopher's ability to hire. I'm not going to "i told you so" everyone, but i am happy to see finally people have opened their eyes to the fact that this is a great dude in the wrong job. Christopher's revenue-generating sports' hires at bowling green and xavier are well-documented, and they aren't great (to be very kind).

Travis will likely get another year, although with a new president and a school that desperately needs men's basketball to be good for enrollment reasons long-term, it is a wild-card. I'm not sure anyone can convince me that next year will be any different / better, so i'm not sure what kicking the can down the road gets you. His staff was always wrong, he had to have a veteran coach on his bench to help him (see: Martelli with juwan howard at michigan), but with essentially two peers of his and a local, well thought of (mostly) former player. Save me the matthew graves talk, again, not a guy's whose track record as a head guy will knock anyone's socks off.

I don't know how anyone can talk about any player as "i'd be surprised if they transferred," it is the wild, wild west right now, all bet's are off, and there are lots of shiny programs right now much closer to an ncaa 2nd weekend appearance than xavier is.

Been nearly 40 years since xavier missed 3 straight tournaments...unreal. Bob staack and tony yates are back at the helms in the queen city.

What a shame, this was so avoidable, but yet, here we are.

If he is back, and i expect he will be, i would expect a major turnover on the staff. Travis is a very nice guy, affable, friendly, and the team very much has taken on his personality as their team's identity. No edge. No "dog", if you will. This team plays soft, plays with a very low basketball iq (we thought that would change with naji's departure...hmmm), and continues to make poor decision after poor decision.

Oh well, let's see what kind of appetite father graham (what he is leaving behind), the board of trustees, and the new president have for more of this. Probably a lot of interesting conversations taking place with, and about, greg and the state of xavier athletics in general, and mbb (and wbb) in particular.

winner winner chicken fucking dinner!!!

We play with no edge, no toughness and way too soft. We are like steele.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Banners thinks we got good looks land took good shots in the 2nd half last night.......they just didn't go in?

Do you think Carter and Wilcher shooting off-balance shots off the bounce are "good looks"? I don't. Re-watch the last 8 minutes and see how many of those shots you see taken by Carter and Wilcher (I feel good about Wilcher taking a shot with his feet set, but he is not yet a threat at all off the dribble). We also saw some of those unicorns, an Odom three-pointer, which prompted Brando to wonder if his knee was injured.

[bleedXblue]

Archie Miller? John Beilhein? Are you guys serious? Holy shit. Go back to what has worked. Good young up and comers who have proven they know how to win and build a program. Kelsey ought to be right there too.

[bleedXblue]

Do you think Carter and Wilcher shooting off-balance shots off the bounce are "good looks"? I don't. Re-watch the last 8 minutes and see how many of those shots you see taken by Carter and Wilcher (I feel good about Wilcher taking a shot with his feet set, but he is not yet a threat at all off the dribble). We also saw some of those unicorns, an Odom three-pointer, which prompted Brando to wonder if his knee was injured.

exactly

[Xavier]

Archie Miller? John Beilhein? Are you guys serious? Holy shit. Go back to what has worked. Good young up and comers who have proven they know how to win and build a program. Kelsey ought to be right there too.

If Beilein brought what he did at Michigan to Xavier I'd be thrilled. I mean, that worked. He is also coming from the NBA, he will attract talent immediately, He would legitimately turn Big East into Nova /Xavier then everyone else.

*I know he isn't coming to Xavier.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Banners thinks we got good looks land took good shots in the 2nd half last night.......they just didn't go in?

Dude....its unreal their opinion. I've been tweeting back and forth with them since last night. What you quoted me saying above is exactly what I tweeted at them.

[markchal]

I've stayed out of this thread because I have been hammered on here for three years questioning both Travis' abilities, as well as Greg Christopher's ability to hire. I'm not going to "I told you so" everyone, but I am happy to see FINALLY people have opened their eyes to the fact that this is a great dude in the wrong job. Christopher's revenue-generating sports' hires at Bowling Green and Xavier are well-documented, and they aren't great (to be VERY kind).

Travis will likely get another year, although with a New President and a school that DESPERATELY needs Men's Basketball to be good for enrollment reasons long-term, it is a wild-card. I'm not sure anyone can convince me that next year will be any different / better, so I'm not sure what kicking the can down the road gets you. His staff was always wrong, he HAD to have a veteran coach on his bench to help him (see: Martelli with Juwan Howard at Michigan), but with essentially two peers of his and a local, well thought of (mostly) former player. Save me the Matthew Graves talk, again, not a guy's whose track record as a head guy will knock anyone's socks off.

I don't know how anyone can talk about ANY player as "I'd be surprised if they transferred," it is the wild, wild west right now, all bet's are off, and there are LOTS of shiny programs right now much closer to an NCAA 2nd weekend appearance than Xavier is.

Been nearly 40 years since Xavier missed 3 straight Tournaments...unreal. Bob Staack and Tony Yates are back at the helms in the Queen City.

What a shame, this was so avoidable, but yet, here we are.

If he is back, and I expect he will be, I would expect a major turnover on the staff. Travis is a VERY nice guy, affable, friendly, and the team very much has taken on his personality as their team's identity. No edge. No "dog", if you will. This team plays soft, plays with a very low basketball IQ (we thought that would change with Naji's departure...hmmm), and continues to make poor decision after poor decision.

Oh well, let's see what kind of appetite Father Graham (what he is leaving behind), the Board of Trustees, and the new President have for more of this. Probably a lot of interesting conversations taking place with, and about, Greg and the state of Xavier Athletics in general, and MBB (and WBB) in particular.

this is a great post, and I definitely think it would be a good idea to get rid of Christopher too. Unfortunately, you probably can't do both in the same season, so I'm fine with Steele getting another year if we can get a new AD asap (Steele is better at his job, although only marginally), and then replacing Steele after next season.

[GoMuskies]

Banners thinks we got good looks land took good shots in the 2nd half last night.......they just didn't go in?

Then we have terrible players all recruited by Steele (other than Scruggs). Their choice.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Then we have terrible players all recruited by Steele (other than Scruggs). Their choice.

They then say things like....


1. Johnson was hurt
2. Kunkel was a great shooter how was steele supposed to know etc
3. blah blah blah.

Its unreal.

[IM4X]

This is what really got me. I get that coaches see things in practice we don’t get to see and that it’s easy to complain about X’s and O’s but that we don’t know as much as the coaches do about that.

But one of the biggest things in coaching is just having a feel for you guys and a feel for the game. We needed a couple late huge buckets and he allowed a guy who had looked and played awful for months to have it run through him. When we have scorers sitting on the bench getting ZERO minutes. That’s just a really bad job. It’s a coach who is flat out putting the emphasis on the wrong things and blatantly choosing to whatever “his method” is over just trying to win.

Yep. He is still coaching with blinders. He is so focused on selling “his way” and looking confident to everyone that he doesn’t even see his way isn’t always working - especially with certain players/lineups being put in for extended periods of time and being asked to do things they don’t do well. If you are a big and you miss the majority of easy bunnies you attempt and can’t seem to stop your guy from scoring on you and you aren’t able to grab more than a hadful of rebounds (Jones had 4 more rebounds than Carter last night) and your teammates are hesitating to give you the ball in the paint then you’ve got to be smart enough as a coach to realize that either you are asking a guy to do things that are not his strengths or that he is simply not skilled enough to be playing significant minutes at this level.

To leave such a player in the game and ask him to score (because you know the opponents will hedge towards the other X players on the floor) is just asking for a disastrous result. Sure, he will be open, but he’s not the guy you want as your preferred playmaker with the ball. This is the same strategy that BE coaches have used to outsmart Steele for three years now. Allow X to have the open guy be the last guy who is likely to make a bucket or even make the perfectly placed pass to a playmaker that can change the momentum of a game.

I was frustrated Steele was keeping Carter in for such long stretches last night -even was posting about is during the game- “Why is Carter in the game now”... especially during the final 4+ minutes. Steele essentially created a situation that was going to make it much more difficult for his team to score. Four of his guys were being smothered because the opposing team knew there was a very high probability that the fifth guy on the floor was not likely to make a bucket even if he was left alone in the paint.

[xavierj]

Jay Wright took over a program that had missed 3 of the past 4 tourneys and hadnt been past the second round since 14 years before he got there. He took over program in pretty bad shape.

Steele took over a program who consistently made and advanced in the tournament.

If you think Travis Steele took over a top 25 program I don’t know what to tell you. Top 25 programs don’t get a 1 seed and not be able to land any recruits. Chris did the program no favors. You lose the best 4 year class in the programs history and no recruiting class. That’s not an ideal situation.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If you think Travis Steele took over a top 25 program I don’t know what to tell you. Top 25 programs don’t get a 1 seed and not be able to land any recruits. Chris did the program no favors. You lose the best 4 year class in the programs history and no recruiting class. That’s not an ideal situation.

Did I say that?

The point is our program as a whole had been much more successful. He had a much easier job to recruit to given high school players looking at Xavier's recent success than Wrights when the high school kids who looked at Nova saw a program who didnt make the tourney often and hadnt been to the Sweet 16 since they were in diapers.

If you can't see the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you.

[xudash]

We tried it, it didn't work.

He's a good recruiter, as evidenced by some of the young talent, but time to move on for the sake of the program. Very unconcerned with our next coach wanting to stay here forever (seemed to be a hope/emphasis w/Miller and Mack), will definitely be content going back to getting a competent young coach who wins big and leaves after 6-7 years.

Six to seven years would cause too much disruption in the recruiting process. IF we can't find our Wright or Few, then the contracts have to be for 10 year minimums with seriously exorbitant buyout clauses.

Are such contracts possible for Xavier? They are now, or should be: Xavier brand, full admin support, strong fanbase, facilities, AND THE BE affiliation. Yes, we've lost coaches to other programs, but the list of programs that are worth going to from Xavier has been shrinking for a while now. And, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, Miller first declined Arizona and Mack waived off a number of other offers. Absolutely "NO" to 6 to 7 years stays, but I get your point.

[IM4X]

Do you think Carter and Wilcher shooting off-balance shots off the bounce are "good looks"? I don't. Re-watch the last 8 minutes and see how many of those shots you see taken by Carter and Wilcher (I feel good about Wilcher taking a shot with his feet set, but he is not yet a threat at all off the dribble). We also saw some of those unicorns, an Odom three-pointer, which prompted Brando to wonder if his knee was injured.

I was noticing (and thinking) the same thing.

No disrespect to banners but IMO they’ve missed the boat more than a few times this season.

[GoMuskies]

We've done fine in the past with the 6/7 year coach. We can go back to that well if need be. Imagine being stuck in a 10 year contract with a coach that sucks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Banners new thing now is giving the first 3 year records and results for star coaches like Bennett and Wright as a reason Steele is doing well and needs more time.

Forget the fact that Bennett took over a UVA program that had been to the tourney 3 times in the previous 14 years and hadn't been past the 2nd round in 15 years. Wright took over a program who only went once in the previous 4 years and hadnt been past the 2nd round in 14 years.

They had much tougher jobs than Steele who took over a program that went almost every year to the tourney and was used to advancing in that tourney. That is a lot easier to recruit for and build from regardless of what you think of the roster he inherited.

[AviatorX]

Banners new thing now is giving the first 3 year records and results for star coaches like Bennett and Wright as a reason Steele is doing well and needs more time.

Forget the fact that Bennett took over a UVA program that had been to the tourney 3 times in the previous 14 years and hadn't been past the 2nd round in 15 years. Wright took over a program who only went once in the previous 4 years and hadnt been past the 2nd round in 14 years.

They had much tougher jobs than Steele who took over a program that went almost every year to the tourney and was used to advancing in that tourney. That is a lot easier to recruit for and build from regardless of what you think of the roster he inherited.

These arguments are so lazy it's incredible.

I posted this earlier, but Wright's 4th year he took a 5 seed to the Sweet 16 and his 5th year he took a 1 seed to the Elite 8. Anyone think Steele is going to match that? Not to mention the fact that while Steele is a very good recruiter, by this point Jay Wright had brought to Nova a future 1st Team All-American, 2nd Team All-American and multiple future first round picks. I love our youth as much as the next guy, but doesn't exactly seem to be apples to apples.

Tony Bennett made the tournament in his third season at UVA and before even getting there had gone to a Sweet 16 at Washington State and coached Klay Thompson. You know who else had a couple of mediocre years at UVA to start off? Our old friend Dave Leitao.

[paulxu]

Why would you want Archie?
Took over Indiana (with all its history and resources) and hasn't had a winning conference record or made the dance in 4 years.

No thank you.

[GoMuskies]

Mick Cronin is going to coach a game in the NCAA Tournament this year. Mick Cronin.

[SM#24]

And Travis Cronin will not.

[AviatorX]

Mick Cronin is going to coach a game in the NCAA Tournament this year. Mick Cronin.

He may even go crazy and coach two games. But we know that's his limit.

[Masterofreality]

I have purposefully not posted about last night until the immediate emotions died down, but, now....

The roster abuse that Travis Steele has inflicted upon Xavier the last three Years is deserving of a 20 year sentence of Solitary Coaching Confinement. The second half of that game last night was Steele’s malfeasance over 3 years in a microcosm. The first half last night showed once again that Coach NIT has had the talent to win, but his bull headed allegiance to Practice Point Performance screws the entire mixture up.
Last time I checked, no one, fans, media, or NCAA Committee keep score on what happens in practice. There is no listing of Practice Points in the XU media guide. I have only seen GAME won/lost records. So...we can determine that GAME players are the determining factor, not PRACTICE players.

I hate to just dump on a player, and I’m sure he was trying hard, but the fact that Jason Carter was on that court last night for 35 minutes while Bryan Griffin played 8 and CJ Wilcher played only 20 is ludicrous. In the second half when Xavier couldn’t score, the fact that KyKy Tandy did not see a single second is ludicrous. The fact that it was evident that Butler, in the Second half had decided to basically abandon the outside game and abuse Xavier inside, with no counter to Griffin, or Miles or Ramsey, even for a few possessions, was ludicrous. The fact that Steele never tried a zone to stop the Butler penetration was ludicrous. Finally, the act of removing, arguably, the most effective offensive player in Dwon Odom last night on the last possession of regulation for Adam Kunkel, was ludicrous. The Turnover was not Adam’s fault, but the result of a poorly designed play that put Kunk close to the sideline and Free too close to him. But in any event, Butler hadn’t stopped Dwon’s paint penetration to that game point ALL NIGHT LONG. Ludicrous.

Carter was a matador on defense-giving up the baseline twice in 45 seconds, and the last 3:20 of regulation was a masterclass in miserable individual basketball by him. The effort to “take the game over” by him was laughable, if you aren’t a Xavier fan, but that’s what happens when Practice Points Players get freedom and 35 minutes of run vs other better options. The minutes Carter received should have been cut by 20, with 10 more each given to CJ and Griff. And don’t tell me that Xavier couldn’t defend or rebound with CJ in the game. He had the best box out of any Xavier player I’ve seen all year in the first half last night. Carter played way too many 2nd half minutes and when Free hurt his leg, Carter is right back in there as opposed to Griffin and was abused.

By the way, Steele was able to avoid the radio show postgame (because of the League Requirement of the Pool Press Conference) but he couldn’t even, err, find the time to record the PreGame radio interview with Joe and Byron That was taped the Day before! Hmmm, missing in action again when tough times hit? Maybe he was “out recruiting” in New York?

I hope Steele had his Participation Trophies ready when they got back to Cincinnati. I don’t care if they play another game this season. I’m done with this lunacy and his ludicrous cliched coach speak....MAN!

[xudash]

I have purposefully not posted about last night until the immediate emotions died down, but, now....

The roster abuse that Travis Steele has inflicted upon Xavier the last three Years is deserving of a 20 year sentence of Solitary Coaching Confinement. The second half of that game last night was Steele’s malfeasance over 3 years in a microcosm. The first half last night showed once again that Coach NIT has had the talent to win, but his bull headed allegiance to Practice Point Performance screws the entire mixture up.
Last time I checked, no one, fans, media, or NCAA Committee keep score on what happens in practice. There is no listing of Practice Points in the XU media guide. I have only seen GAME won/lost records. So...we can determine that GAME players are the determining factor, not PRACTICE players.

I hate to just dump on a player, and I’m sure he was trying hard, but the fact that Jason Carter was on that court last night for 35 minutes while Bryan Griffin played 8 and CJ Wilcher played only 20 is ludicrous. In the second half when Xavier couldn’t score, the fact that KyKy Tandy did not see a single second is ludicrous. The fact that it was evident that Butler, in the Second half had decided to basically abandon the outside game and abuse Xavier inside, with no counter to Griffin, or Miles or Ramsey, even for a few possessions, was ludicrous. The fact that Steele never tried a zone to stop the Butler penetration was ludicrous. Finally, the act of removing, arguably, the most effective offensive player in Dwon Odom last night on the last possession of regulation for Adam Kunkel, was ludicrous. The Turnover was not Adam’s fault, but the result of a poorly designed play that put Kunk close to the sideline and Free too close to him. But in any event, Butler hadn’t stopped Dwon’s paint penetration to that game point ALL NIGHT LONG. Ludicrous.

Carter was a matador on defense-giving up the baseline twice in 45 seconds, and the last 3:20 of regulation was a masterclass in miserable individual basketball by him. The effort to “take the game over” by him was laughable, if you aren’t a Xavier fan, but that’s what happens when Practice Points Players get freedom and 35 minutes of run vs other better options. The minutes Carter received should have been cut by 20, with 10 more each given to CJ and Griff. And don’t tell me that Xavier couldn’t defend or rebound with CJ in the game. He had the best box out of any Xavier player I’ve seen all year in the first half last night. Carter played way too many 2nd half minutes and when Free hurt his leg, Carter is right back in there as opposed to Griffin and was abused.

By the way, Steele was able to avoid the radio show postgame (because of the League Requirement of the Pool Press Conference) but he couldn’t even, err, find the time to record the PreGame radio interview with Joe and Byron That was taped the Day before! Hmmm, missing in action again when tough times hit? Maybe he was “out recruiting” in New York?

I hope Steele had his Participation Trophies ready when they got back to Cincinnati. I don’t care if they play another game this season. I’m done with this lunacy and his ludicrous cliched coach speak....MAN!

I agree 100% with your assessment.

[xdude]

I love Travis and think he's a great ambassador for Xavier and a great guy all around. Really hope he turns it around next year, but I just don't see it happening. I absolutely hate his style of play, offensive sets and more than anything his philosophy around defense. I think our program has lost the one key element that has been key to our success the last 30 years: TOUGHNESS. Mental and physical toughness. We played scared, tentative basketball in the second half last night. That is BS and all on the HC.

I was watching Steele's eyes during the game. First half, confidence and poise. Especially late in the second half, he didn't quite look scared, but he did not look confident or in command. He has a lot of growing up to do this off season...

[drudy23]

I have purposefully not posted about last night until the immediate emotions died down, but, now....

The roster abuse that Travis Steele has inflicted upon Xavier the last three Years is deserving of a 20 year sentence of Solitary Coaching Confinement. The second half of that game last night was Steele’s malfeasance over 3 years in a microcosm. The first half last night showed once again that Coach NIT has had the talent to win, but his bull headed allegiance to Practice Point Performance screws the entire mixture up.
Last time I checked, no one, fans, media, or NCAA Committee keep score on what happens in practice. There is no listing of Practice Points in the XU media guide. I have only seen GAME won/lost records. So...we can determine that GAME players are the determining factor, not PRACTICE players.

I hate to just dump on a player, and I’m sure he was trying hard, but the fact that Jason Carter was on that court last night for 35 minutes while Bryan Griffin played 8 and CJ Wilcher played only 20 is ludicrous. In the second half when Xavier couldn’t score, the fact that KyKy Tandy did not see a single second is ludicrous. The fact that it was evident that Butler, in the Second half had decided to basically abandon the outside game and abuse Xavier inside, with no counter to Griffin, or Miles or Ramsey, even for a few possessions, was ludicrous. The fact that Steele never tried a zone to stop the Butler penetration was ludicrous. Finally, the act of removing, arguably, the most effective offensive player in Dwon Odom last night on the last possession of regulation for Adam Kunkel, was ludicrous. The Turnover was not Adam’s fault, but the result of a poorly designed play that put Kunk close to the sideline and Free too close to him. But in any event, Butler hadn’t stopped Dwon’s paint penetration to that game point ALL NIGHT LONG. Ludicrous.

Carter was a matador on defense-giving up the baseline twice in 45 seconds, and the last 3:20 of regulation was a masterclass in miserable individual basketball by him. The effort to “take the game over” by him was laughable, if you aren’t a Xavier fan, but that’s what happens when Practice Points Players get freedom and 35 minutes of run vs other better options. The minutes Carter received should have been cut by 20, with 10 more each given to CJ and Griff. And don’t tell me that Xavier couldn’t defend or rebound with CJ in the game. He had the best box out of any Xavier player I’ve seen all year in the first half last night. Carter played way too many 2nd half minutes and when Free hurt his leg, Carter is right back in there as opposed to Griffin and was abused.

By the way, Steele was able to avoid the radio show postgame (because of the League Requirement of the Pool Press Conference) but he couldn’t even, err, find the time to record the PreGame radio interview with Joe and Byron That was taped the Day before! Hmmm, missing in action again when tough times hit? Maybe he was “out recruiting” in New York?

I hope Steele had his Participation Trophies ready when they got back to Cincinnati. I don’t care if they play another game this season. I’m done with this lunacy and his ludicrous cliched coach speak....MAN!

There is no rational explanation for his use of Carter. It cost his team a tournament bid.

There is no rational explanation for zero minutes for KyKy. It cost his team a tournament bid.

Granted, he will admit none of this. Much more important to deflect everyone's attention to scheduling a fake game.

[Masterofreality]

I love Travis and think he's a great ambassador for Xavier and a great guy all around. Really hope he turns it around next year, but I just don't see it happening. I absolutely hate his style of play, offensive sets and more than anything his philosophy around defense. I think our program has lost the one key element that has been key to our success the last 30 years: TOUGHNESS. Mental and physical toughness. We played scared, tentative basketball in the second half last night. That is BS and all on the HC.

This is what happens when you are always the “Players Buddy” coddling them with “talks” rather than the CEO of the Program to be respected.
Leave the make up coddling to the Assistants. You need to be above that.
Like I’ve said earlier on another thread, a former manager who I know and coached told me that he had this concern about Steele from the very beginning. If he was tough enough to hold guys accountable but keep their respect while pushing their buttons. He also told me that Mack was the best he’d ever seen at it and this former X manager has gone on to work for 2 NFL teams.
What he said has come to fruition.

[Masterofreality]

By the way...
The Loyola Ramblers, who I have sung the praises of for a while now, and after a Final 4 3 years ago, are ranked 10 in the NET rankings, are Number 1 in team defense in the entire NCAA, run a great schematic offense, and are back in the NCAA Tournament.But according to some “analyitic guru’s” on here shouldn’t be emulated.

How about weighing in again Mr, Analytic about how Steele can’t learn anything from that Coach and program. And also how “no player wants to play that system anymore”.

You know what no college player wants to do? Miss the NCAA Tournament 3 years in a row.

[Xavier]

To be fair Moser was like 32-60 in his first 3 seasons at Loyola...I’d guess that fanbase would’ve been ready to move on. Maybe it speaks to letting the coach learn a little bit more

[Masterofreality]

To be fair Moser was like 32-60 in his first 3 seasons at Loyola...I’d guess that fanbase would’ve been ready to move on. Maybe it speaks to letting the coach learn a little bit more

To be fair, Moser was left with ZERO. No. That fanbase was ecstatic with the progress.
Travis was left with some fine players and added the D2 POY, who he proceeded to misuse among others.
Maybe that speaks to a Coach who has a system, knows who can play and isn’t afraid to change and fit them.
And also speaks to a coach who can develop.

[XUGRAD80]

Different coaches have different approaches and different personalities. Part of being a good coach is to adjust yourself to the players. I have no inside knowledge, I’ve no way of knowing how Steele approaches the players individually or as a group. He comes across to me as a nice guy who is dedicated and is prepared. That’s not always enough however. It’s my opinion that while he has improved in some areas over the last 3 years, he hasn’t improved at all in others. His game management, use of timeouts, out of bounds plays, offensive and defenses in game adjustments are certainly not stellar and at times are downright poor. My problem is that overall neither he, nor his teams, seem to make adjustments and improve as the year moves on. Last evening Butler made defensive adjustments that took away Xavier offensive sets in the 2nd half. Xavier kept trying to run what had been effective in the 1st half and never adjusted to the Butler defensive adjustments. Likewise, Xavier never made defensive adjustments after Butler made their own offensive adjustments and started scoring on a regular basis. The players started playing not to lose and the coaching followed suit. They fell back into bad habits and stopped playing team ball. I blame the coach for allowing this to happen and for not making the adjustments at 1/2 time and during the flow of the game. I blame the coach for the teams over the last 3 years not showing big improvement from the beginning to the end of the season. For me, what coaching is all about is getting your players to improve individually and for the teams to improve as a group. I’ve seen some player improvement. Scruggs and Freemantle are definitely better players this year than they were last year. I think that the 3 freshman showed improvement over the year. But, I don’t think the Team is better now than it was way back in November. I didn’t think that last years team improved from beginning to end either. Coaching fail.

[Xavier]

To be clear the three previous seasons Loyola was 44-49. The first three seasons with Moser they were 32-60. Fanbase being ecstatic about that progress would be strange but admittedly I have no ties at all to that program.

[XU 23]

Butler just lost by 31. They suck.

[waggy]

Beilein for me would be a stop gab, he's pushing 70.


But he would attract some really high quality assistants, that could take over 4 or 5 years down the road.

Really like Beiline. Loved his defensive scheme when he was at Richmond. Wins everywhere he goes. If you can get him along with a successor, it's a home run imo.

[xavierj]

Really like Beiline. Loved his defensive scheme when he was at Richmond. Wins everywhere he goes. If you can get him along with a successor, it's a home run imo.

When? Will he be available in a year or two?

[Masterofreality]

To be clear the three previous seasons Loyola was 44-49. The first three seasons with Moser they were 32-60. Fanbase being ecstatic about that progress would be strange but admittedly I have no ties at all to that program.

They moved up in Leagues - From the old MCC/Horizon to the Missouri Valley.
Jim “.500 Record” Whitsell was the previous coach. Always teased, but never improved over 50/50. Kinda like Tay Baker at X, before Bob Staak.
In Moser’s 3rd year he got his recruiting in place and ala Staak with Byron Larkin, nabbed Milton Doyel who was the best player in Chicago and went on to the NBA. First NBA-type guy Loyola had gotten since the mid-1980’s

[AviatorX]

By the way...
The Loyola Ramblers, who I have sung the praises of for a while now, and after a Final 4 3 years ago, are ranked 10 in the NET rankings, are Number 1 in team defense in the entire NCAA, run a great schematic offense, and are back in the NCAA Tournament.But according to some “analyitic guru’s” on here shouldn’t be emulated.

How about weighing in again Mr, Analytic about how Steele can’t learn anything from that Coach and program. And also how “no player wants to play that system anymore”.

You know what no college player wants to do? Miss the NCAA Tournament 3 years in a row.

Not sure what you’re talking about, the analytics are higher on this Loyola team than just about anyone is in real life. KenPom has them at 9 - ahead of Creighton, Virginia and Nova.

[Masterofreality]

Not sure what you’re talking about, the analytics are higher on this Loyola team than just about anyone is in real life. KenPom has them at 9 - ahead of Creighton, Virginia and Nova.

I’m talking about the last 2 years, where every time I’d point out Loyola as an example for Steele to follow to improve his lousy “Pass the ball East and West then have a guy go One on One” Offense, Say, to learn about things like screens, quick passing and cuts TO the basket off those screens, I’d get called out by Mr. Analytic that Loyola’s system wasn’t that good.
You know, because of.........analytics.

[xudash]

So, why can’t we copy the Michigan approach; why can’t we bring in a very experienced head coach to help him with the fundamentals?

It isn’t like he is triggering the incentive components of his existing contract, and that contract cannot possibly be a overly rich at this point. It isn’t like he has a track record to resist such an approach. It should be sold as a glass half full proposition: we’re going to run it this way with you at the helm for three years as you fully grow into this position, then we can make changes from there with your staff, if necessary.

It doesn’t have to be a “splash“ hire. It can be someone who simply teaches and emphasizes some of the fundamentals discussed here; the things that he presently lacks and fails to see.

Perhaps that is a way through if this is mostly about strategy and tactics, or lack there of.

If it is about culture, which means having lost our toughness and him always wanting to be a buddy, then he has to fix that on his own and right quick, along with his emphasis on his SkyMiles point system.

[AviatorX]

I’m talking about the last 2 years, where every time I’d point out Loyola as an example for Steele to follow to improve his lousy “Pass the ball East and West then have a guy go One on One” Offense, Say, to learn about things like screens, quick passing and cuts TO the basket off those screens, I’d get called out by Mr. Analytic that Loyola’s system wasn’t that good.
You know, because of.........analytics.

That’s probably because Loyola’s offense absolutely sucked the last two seasons. Way less efficient than Xavier’s both years. Actually in hilarious fashion Loyola is one spot behind X for adjusted offensive efficiency this season as well.

Their half court defense is incredible this season. I’ve seen some amazing possessions clipped on Twitter where the way they move in their system is awesome.

[Masterofreality]

That’s probably because Loyola’s offense absolutely sucked the last two seasons. Way less efficient than Xavier’s both years. Actually in hilarious fashion Loyola is one spot behind X for adjusted offensive efficiency this season as well.

Their half court defense is incredible this season. I’ve seen some amazing possessions clipped on Twitter where the way they move in their system is awesome.

Yes it’s Hilarious that Xavier’s offense is soooooooo efficient. Totally on display in the 2nd half vs crap Butler last night and vs GTown, Marquette, Providence and St. John’s in games before that.
Uh, huh. You ARE kidding, right?? Helluva joke there Analytic Comedian.
That iish wins as many games as Practice Points.

[AviatorX]

Yes it’s Hilarious that Xavier’s offense is soooooooo efficient. Totally on display in the 2nd half vs crap Butler last night and vs GTown, Marquette, Providence and St. John’s in games before that.
Uh, huh. You ARE kidding, right?? Helluva joke there Analytic Comedian.
That iish wins as many games as Practice Points.

C'mon, it's pretty funny Xavier's adjusted offensive efficiency is a fraction of a point higher than Loyola's this season after your rant. I mean, obviously Loyola will pass them if they play some meaningful games next week, but still funny, especially when the vaunted Porter Moser offense was actually abysmal by any statistical measure the two seasons before this one, yet apparently is the gold standard. Someone should teach Moser about screens and cuts!

[murray87]

We're really talking about "adjusted offensive efficiency" to smooth over the garbage offensive sets run by the Muskies? To quote the great philosopher Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear."

[Masterofreality]

C'mon, it's pretty funny Xavier's adjusted offensive efficiency is a fraction of a point higher than Loyola's this season after your rant. I mean, obviously Loyola will pass them if they play some meaningful games next week, but still funny, especially when the vaunted Porter Moser offense was actually abysmal by any statistical measure the two seasons before this one, yet apparently is the gold standard. Someone should teach Moser about screens and cuts!

And with that, you have walked right into the trap that has been set to show how wrong you and Steele’s Analytic/Practice Point approach is.
Anyone not looking at a piece of paper, but at game players on a basketball court sees how this offense from Steele is simplistic and easily defensed- just look at the second half of the Butler game for the most recent example. Anyone with eyes on a basketball court can see that players are not being put in positions to play to their strengths and are misused to the point that this program is becoming a dumpster fire. This offense sucks, period.
And anybody really believe that Practice Points Player Jason Carter deserves 35 minutes a game? Anybody think that KyKy Tandy deserves zero? Those are two extreme examples but the point is made.
You, sir, a Steele defender looks at numbers on paper just like Steele rather than actual on court performance to justify a bull headed approach. Good coaches see players not paper and adjust as such. Want an example? Early in the year Loyola was starting a player named Tate Hall. Apparently his practice performance was off the charts. But in games his production was lousy. After a while, Moser adjusted and made Hall a 6th Man. He produced much better in different matchups. Maybe Steele should have thought about a different role for Carter? Ah, but analytics!!!!

You just keep going to hell in a hand basket along with Steele with your numbers. Have fun.

[Xavier]

In the last 13 games of the season Hall scored 9 points once, the next highest was 6 points a few times. In the first 15 games he had 9 games of double digit points. Rebounding doesn't look much different either. Overall, just looking at the numbers, he performed better last year- seems to have regressed.

[Masterofreality]

In the last 13 games of the season Hall scored 9 points once, the next highest was 6 points a few times. In the first 15 games he had 9 games of double digit points. Rebounding doesn't look much different either. Overall, just looking at the numbers, he performed better last year- seems to have regressed.

The last 16 games Hall received less minutes. But the time he was on the court he produced bette for his time on. Plus the guys who replaced him in the starting lineup did a better job than Hall was doing starting.
Loyola went 15-1 in those games with the revised lineup.
That’s the point.

Talk about Xavier and Steele. Point made about Loyola.

[Xavier]

The last 16 games Hall received less minutes. But the time he was on the court he produced better per minute for his time on.
More importantly Loyola went 15-1 in those games with the revised lineup.
That’s the point.

Talk about Xavier and Steele. Point made about Loyola.

Fair enough, I thought your point was Halls production was better. No argument from me on Steele. I'm ready to move on and knowing we won't this year, I will be ready to hope and root for Steele turning it around year 4 and proves almost everyone wrong. I'd be pleasantly shocked if he is able to.

[AviatorX]

We're really talking about "adjusted offensive efficiency" to smooth over the garbage offensive sets run by the Muskies? To quote the great philosopher Marvin Lewis, "I see better than I hear."

No defense of Steele’s system from me, I simply pointed out that it’s kind of funny that Xavier’s offense has been better than Loyola’s by probably the most ubiquitous rating system we have in modern college basketball each year Steele has been in charge. It’s not that deep. Just a funny contrast to MOR’s message board trope filled speeches about how beautiful Loyola’s offense is and how Steele can’t coach grade school ball.

Loyola is winning with a historically good half court defensive system this season. If Xavier’s defense was anywhere near that good, they’d be a top 5 seed.

[XUBob]

MOR,
I think everyone looks at analytics too much in all sports in this day and age. While I think Travis relies on it too heavily that is symptomatic of this new breed of coaches. Everything is objective to them there is no subjectivity involved. Gone are the days of this guys a player, now the numbers tell the tale, while that might be helpful I believe it’s overused. As has been said, Travis will get year four, I hope it’s a major growth spurt.

[AviatorX]

And with that, you have walked right into the trap that has been set to show how wrong you and Steele’s Analytic/Practice Point approach is.
Anyone not looking at a piece of paper, but at game players on a basketball court sees how this offense from Steele is simplistic and easily defensed- just look at the second half of the Butler game for the most recent example. Anyone with eyes on a basketball court can see that players are not being put in positions to play to their strengths and are misused to the point that this program is becoming a dumpster fire. This offense sucks, period.
And anybody really believe that Practice Points Player Jason Carter deserves 35 minutes a game? Anybody think that KyKy Tandy deserves zero? Those are two extreme examples but the point is made.
You, sir, a Steele defender looks at numbers on paper just like Steele rather than actual on court performance to justify a bull headed approach. Good coaches see players not paper and adjust as such. Want an example? Early in the year Loyola was starting a player named Tate Hall. Apparently his practice performance was off the charts. But in games his production was lousy. After a while, Moser adjusted and made Hall a 6th Man. He produced much better in different matchups. Maybe Steele should have thought about a different role for Carter? Ah, but analytics!!!!

You just keep going to hell in a hand basket along with Steele with your numbers. Have fun.

Why was Loyola’s offense so much worse than Xavier’s (adjusted for competition) the last two seasons? Honest question.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Why was Loyola’s offense so much worse than Xavier’s (adjusted for competition) the last two seasons? Honest question.

I can't answer your question about the analytics of their offense. I'm a lifelong Chicagoan and growing up my brother became a Loyola fan because of the '85 Sweet 16 team (I'm the idiot who picked DePaul because of '79).

Anyway, I have watched a lot of Loyola over the years. I have to agree with MOR. You have to watch them play. They are deliberate on offense, they have an actual plan. They also bust their ass on both ends of the floor. Over the years they have been fun to watch because of this.

But Moser wasn't always successful and a lot of schools would have let him go before he reached his success. Maybe the same is true with Travis.

[Masterofreality]

Why was Loyola’s offense so much worse than Xavier’s (adjusted for competition) the last two seasons? Honest question.


Honest question. Shouldn’t Steele study and take, at least, some or a lot of elements from an effective team and work them into his system?
That has been the whole point of me bringing them up, but you, like Steele, keep focusing on “practice points” analytics. Paper vs on court results.
Loyola is in the Tournament with a recent Final 4 on their resume. Xavier is not, Mr. Analytics focused. Done.

[AviatorX]

Honest question. Shouldn’t Steele study and take, at least, some or a lot of elements from an effective team and work them into his system?
That has been the whole point of me bringing them up, but you, like Steele, keep focusing on “practice points” analytics. Paper vs on court results.
Loyola is in the Tournament with a recent Final 4 on their resume. Xavier is not, Mr. Analytics focused. Done.

As I've said multiple times, Loyola has a historically good half court defense this season that I've watched. I'm not down on their program (although it is obviously nowhere near as good as Xavier's). I don't think they're some offensive model Xavier should look to, no. We'll see how it goes for them next week. Obviously they are having a better season than Xavier, but they weren't good at all the last two years coming off the Final Four run which you just seem to gloss over, which is why I'm poking some fun at you with the offensive efficiency numbers/comparisons between Moser and Steele.

[Masterofreality]

As I've said multiple times, Loyola has a historically good half court defense this season that I've watched. I'm not down on their program (although it is obviously nowhere near as good as Xavier's). I don't think they're some offensive model Xavier should look to, no. We'll see how it goes for them next week. Obviously they are having a better season than Xavier, but they weren't good at all the last two years coming off the Final Four run which you just seem to gloss over, which is why I'm poking some fun at you with the offensive efficiency numbers/comparisons between Moser and Steele.

Dude. NOBODY but you and Steele care a crap out whatever the hell efficiency numbers a team puts up, or Practice Points either. They care about performance. I think that Xavier fans would take a Final Four and another NCAA in four years with a roster changeover in between.
But keep staring at those numbers on a piece of paper just like Steele stares at those papers while staring blindly at more losses clueless On The Court.

[paulxu]

I'm pretty ambivalent about the coach. Probably favor giving him a little more time.
But, I am struck by some comparisons in looking at only 2 games.
We supposedly played well (I think we did) in beating ranked Creighton...and poorly against Butler.
In the first instance our offense seemed to flow better. So...in thinking about the various issues discussed in many of these threads, I looked at the 2 box scores. Yes, I know...paper. But some things jumped out.

1 - Tandy played 9 min against Cr. and had 0 points on two attempts
2 - Carter had 22 min against Cr. ....and 0 points. Against But. he at least put up 9.
3 - The real problem seems to be Kunkel and Scruggs took 22 shots against Cr. and scored 35 points. Against Butler, 14 shots and scored 15 points.
They should have shot more. Surprised especially that Scruggs didn't try more 3's. And unfortunately Carter was taking the shot attempts.
We actually had a better % of 3's against Butler than against Creighton.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I'm pretty ambivalent about the coach. Probably favor giving him a little more time.
But, I am struck by some comparisons in looking at only 2 games.
We supposedly played well (I think we did) in beating ranked Creighton...and poorly against Butler.
In the first instance our offense seemed to flow better. So...in thinking about the various issues discussed in many of these threads, I looked at the 2 box scores. Yes, I know...paper. But some things jumped out.

1 - Tandy played 9 min against Cr. and had 0 points on two attempts
2 - Carter had 22 min against Cr. ....and 0 points. Against But. he at least put up 9.
3 - The real problem seems to be Kunkel and Scruggs took 22 shots against Cr. and scored 35 points. Against Butler, 14 shots and scored 15 points.
They should have shot more. Surprised especially that Scruggs didn't try more 3's. And unfortunately Carter was taking the shot attempts.
We actually had a better % of 3's against Butler than against Creighton.

I actually think the game plan defensively against Creighton made the difference. They picked them up early and prevented them from getting into their normal flow. Not looking at stats, but just from my memory of the Creighton game, we didn't take less three pointers per se just better three pointers. Meaning they weren't forced or of poor shot selection.

I just think Creighton was a game where the team really did not stray from the game plan. And the game plan worked. So there were really no on game adjustment, which seems to be Travis' weakness.

[Xavier]

I actually think the game plan defensively against Creighton made the difference. They picked them up early and prevented them from getting into their normal flow. Not looking at stats, but just from my memory of the Creighton game, we didn't take less three pointers per se just better three pointers. Meaning they weren't forced or of poor shot selection.

I just think Creighton was a game where the team really did not stray from the game plan. And the game plan worked. So there were really no on game adjustment, which seems to be Travis' weakness.

I thought the team always played well when they picked up full court. I think throwing that in a few more times a game would have been a good idea. Just to throw something else at opposing teams and make them think.

[noteggs]

Not exactly sure how Carter earned all his practice points and earned that much playing time. During a recent presser, Steele was ask about Cater’s ankle and said he’s had bum ankles since December and his practice time has been very limited since. I believe I heard this correctly. Guess he earned a boatload in November and carried them over (sarcasm).

[Mrs. Garrett]

Not exactly sure how Carter earned all his practice points and earned that much playing time. During a recent presser, Steele was ask about Cater’s ankle and said he’s had bum ankles since December and his practice time has been very limited since. I believe I heard this correctly. Guess he earned a boatload in November and carried them over (sarcasm).

It's just part of a pattern with Travis. He gets an idea and refuses to adjust. Whether it is related to certain players or game plan. Once he decides something it is hard to get him to move on from it when it doesn't work. Carter just happens to be the most glaring example.

[AviatorX]

Dude. NOBODY but you and Steele care a crap out whatever the hell efficiency numbers a team puts up, or Practice Points either. They care about performance. I think that Xavier fans would take a Final Four and another NCAA in four years with a roster changeover in between.
But keep staring at those numbers on a piece of paper just like Steele stares at those papers while staring blindly at more losses clueless On The Court.

No doubt Xavier would like those results (although I'm sure you'd be on here bitching during two seasons of no post-season and a 7 seed in the NIT in the middle). Plenty of people care about efficiency numbers, particularly when you're discussing how to improve the offense/what concepts work better than others. But please keep destroying the strawman where I'm blindly following analytics without context.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Wasn't Carter our least efficient player? I don't think they compute PER numbers for college but if you did I bet he would be the blue ribbon loser.

Steel failed gloriously. He got really unlucky his first season and didn't realize until too late that Hankins was a stud. The second season showed his true colors with the color by number end of season meltdown. This season spoke for itself. He beats Butler and loses Creighton he probably gets year four. The Butler loss and specifically how it went down should earn the pink slip. Christopher needs to ask why he did the things he did in the last 5 minutes and really over the last 8 games of the season. None of his possible answers reflect well on his tenure. I can't remember a time coming out of time outs when we just never scored especially when we really needed it.

Has anyone entertained the idea that Steele/Staff has lost a small part or larger part of the locker room?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Has anyone entertained the idea that Steele/Staff has lost a small part or larger part of the locker room?

I haven't heard that and it seems to be counterintuitive to all the people who say if we fired him all they players would leave. Maybe they wouldn't? I'm sure Kyky wouldnt mind.

If X thinks Steele isnt the guy, you get rid of him regardless of players transferring or not though.

[paulxu]

Not looking at stats, but just from my memory of the Creighton game, we didn't take less three pointers per se just better three pointers. Meaning they weren't forced or of poor shot selection.

Against Butler we were 9-22 for 40.9% (and that included an overtime)

Against Creighton we were 7-21 for 33.3%

I think we should have shot a few more 3's against Butler; preferably from Scruggs or Kunkel.
We shot one more time against Butler, and that surely came in OT. They may have been more forced, but we were hitting at a higher %.

(looking for something to do, obviously, at the beginning of a LONG off season)

[Masterofreality]

No doubt Xavier would like those results (although I'm sure you'd be on here bitching during two seasons of no post-season and a 7 seed in the NIT in the middle). Plenty of people care about efficiency numbers, particularly when you're discussing how to improve the offense/what concepts work better than others. But please keep destroying the strawman where I'm blindly following analytics without context.

Weak sauce. You have no idea what I’d do.
The “straw man” in the room is no NCAA.
This trash is no longer worth responding to.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Against Butler we were 9-22 for 40.9% (and that included an overtime)

Against Creighton we were 7-21 for 33.3%

I think we should have shot a few more 3's against Butler; preferably from Scruggs or Kunkel.
We shot one more time against Butler, and that surely came in OT. They may have been more forced, but we were hitting at a higher %.

(looking for something to do, obviously, at the beginning of a LONG off season)

I wonder how those percentages in the Butler game break out by half? Because at one point the offense was flowing and they were hitting open shots and then they fell apart.

Creighton was just really a complete game on both ends of the court.

[paulxu]

6-2 and 1 in OT for the 9 total 3's.

Looking back, we went almost 8 minutes in the second half with only 2 points. Killer.

[Masterofreality]

Looking back, we went almost 8 minutes in the second half with only 2 points. Killer.

Hey!! How’s THAT for an offensive efficiency rating!!!!

[AviatorX]

Hey!! How’s THAT for an offensive efficiency rating!!!!

Don’t worry, that stretch is factored in to the number that is still higher than Loyola’s.

[Masterofreality]

don’t worry, that stretch is factored in to the number that is still higher than loyola’s.

NIT or BUST!!!!

[Xavier]

Don’t worry, that stretch is factored in to the number that is still higher than Loyola’s.

At some point people don’t care about the facts. Xavier offense was better this year, but even more so last two seasons. That’s fact. Doesn’t mean Xavier is better than Loyola this year- but if you aren’t happy with X offense it’s hard to yell and scream we need to take pointers from an offense that was worse.

[Masterofreality]

At some point people don’t care about the facts. Xavier offense was better this year, but even more so last two seasons. That’s fact. Doesn’t mean Xavier is better than Loyola this year- but if you aren’t happy with X offense it’s hard to yell and scream we need to take pointers from an offense that was worse.

“Statistics are for Losers”- Amos Alonzo Stagg

[WCWIII]

Don't know if this is has been pointed out or not ... but I just noticed that we lost to every Big East team that we played this season.

[JTG]

don't know if this is has been pointed out or not ... But i just noticed that we lost to every big east team that we played this season.

ouch

[hoopster68]

ouch

Super ouch.

[xuphan]

Don't know if this is has been pointed out or not ... but I just noticed that we lost to every Big East team that we played this season.

We didn’t lose to Villanova so we can consider that a win!

[XUGRAD80]

Don't know if this is has been pointed out or not ... but I just noticed that we lost to every Big East team that we played this season.

And the BE record over the last 3 years (including the conf. Tourney).....25-28

How we lookin?


Not good.

[UCGRAD4X]

And the BE record over the last 3 years (including the conf. Tourney).....25-28

How we lookin?

Not good.

Actually I am a little (just a little) surprised it is that good (term used loosely).

However...for a team that hadn't had a losing conference season since Moses received the 15...ooops...10 Commandments on Mt. Sinai....

[Masterofreality]

Good Morning!
To start my day off wrong I went back and watched the Post game Press Conference with Steele and CARTER (!) Wednesday night. What vanilla and cliche answers about how "we gotta get better" and "we gotta be more poised" and "we gotta figure it out". Welp. Ain't no more time for that Steele. You burned all that times up.
The fact that he was giving all of his canned answers like "gotta figure it out" and "gotta get better" and “had to get stops” after scoring just 19 points in the second half and more importantly AFTER THE LAST GAME OF THE YEAR, tells me this dude is a robot unable to change his programming. And he coaches just like it. Cannot adjust on the fly in a game. And zero accountability from him or his staff for letting that stuff happen.
Listening to Joe and Byron on the postgame, it sure sounded like Byron was getting off the Steele train too with comments like, “I would have played some different people”‘and “I know you have to get stops but these are Division 1 players. Sometimes you have to outscore people” and “Xavier’s second half offense just wasn’t good enough”.
Robot coaches don’t win. We have a problem.

[xavierj]

Good Morning!
To start my day off wrong I went back and watched the Post game Press Conference with Steele and CARTER (!) Wednesday night. What vanilla and cliche answers about how "we gotta get better" and "we gotta be more poised" and "we gotta figure it out". Welp. Ain't no more time for that Steele. You burned all that times up.
The fact that he was giving all of his canned answers like "gotta figure it out" and "gotta get better" and “had to get stops” after scoring just 19 points in the second half and more importantly AFTER THE LAST GAME OF THE YEAR, tells me this dude is a robot unable to change his programming. And he coaches just like it. Cannot adjust on the fly in a game. And zero accountability from him or his staff for letting that stuff happen.
Listening to Joe and Byron on the postgame, it sure sounded like Byron was getting off the Steele train too with comments like, “I would have played some different people”‘and “I know you have to get stops but these are Division 1 players. Sometimes you have to outscore people” and “Xavier’s second half offense just wasn’t good enough”.
Robot coaches don’t win. We have a problem.

Not sure why you are so concerned about a press conference. Do you really think they mean anything? Coaches hate them and just want to get it over with. Nothing that comes out of it really means anything of importance. Most coaches just want to not throw players under the bus and just get it over. I haven’t listened to a Xavier press conference in over 10 years. These coaches know what happened a lot more than any of us and a press conference isn’t going to fix it. Same thing with coaches shows. They are pointless and made for guys like you that dissect every word.

[Xavier]

I don’t usually care at all about press conferences. I remember two, “gangsters” one and one where Mack was defending JP against Mick. That’s it....they aren’t memorable and mean nothing.

Literally the only thing that I thought was concerning was how much Travis reminded me of mick in his conferences, and that he seemed to force everything with coach speak. But yeah, talking with the media means absolutely nothing. Who cares.

[XUBison]

I don’t usually care at all about press conferences. I remember two, “gangsters” one and one where Mack was defending JP against Mick. That’s it....they aren’t memorable and mean nothing.

Literally the only thing that I thought was concerning was how much Travis reminded me of mick in his conferences, and that he seemed to force everything with coach speak. But yeah, talking with the media means absolutely nothing. Who cares.

I think this is right. These coaches are glorified gym teachers, so it’s probably not fair to expect them to be Winston Churchill in front of the mic.

[xudash]

From Adam Baum’s write-up:

The lineup Steele went with down the stretch wasn't working at either end of the floor. Xavier's best shooters played a combined 14 minutes in the second half as the Bulldogs packed in their defense, essentially daring Xavier to make shots on the perimeter. Adam Kunkel played seven minutes, CJ Wilcher played seven, and KyKy Tandy never touched the floor all game.

Paul Scruggs didn't score in the second half. Jason Carter made some shots but he also took some bad shots late with the game on the line.

Zach Freemantle was Xavier's only real offense in the second half, but he gave up more points defensively than he scored. Dwon Odom and Colby Jones were electric early but Jones, who scored 10 points in the first half, was held scoreless the rest of the game, and Odom made a costly mistake by fouling Harris 20 feet away from the basket with three seconds left in overtime. Harris went to the line and made both free throws to give Butler the lead for good.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately it's Steele's job to have his team ready and it's also his job to adjust when things aren't working.

When the upcoming offseason arrives it's going to be the most important of Steele's young career. He has to find a way to produce a tough team that gets better as the season goes on, not worse.

....................

Can this young man open his mind in order to realize his mistakes? We talk about them here (obvious deficiencies), they are talked about in the newspaper, and I imagine Greg Christopher sees what is going on as well.

Now allow me to pose a management question to you: you build your program on a structure that rewards playing time based on effort and performance realized in practice. A player like Carter soaks up the performance points and finds himself on the court in games. A player like Tandy, for the most part this season apparently, under performs in practice and finds himself sulking on the bench.

Let’s say Travis had done the right thing and scratched his rigid structure, allowing Tandy to play more. Let’s further suppose that the result of that action led to replacing bad losses with needed wins.

Now for the question: how do you manage that as a coach? How do you allow for exceptions to a system that still allows you to retain respect of your players?

Part of the answer in my mind is that Travis steel truly has to become “tougher“ and assume a proper distance as a head coach between himself and his players.

p.s. Believe me, I know this is not original thinking, but from watching the BET this week, we absolutely must get Fremantle help in the front court. We simply did not have a BE level front court solution for the competition we went up against the season.

[SM#24]

These coaches know what happened a lot more than any of us
Not these coaches.

[xuphan]

From Adam Baum’s write-up:

The lineup Steele went with down the stretch wasn't working at either end of the floor. Xavier's best shooters played a combined 14 minutes in the second half as the Bulldogs packed in their defense, essentially daring Xavier to make shots on the perimeter. Adam Kunkel played seven minutes, CJ Wilcher played seven, and KyKy Tandy never touched the floor all game.

Paul Scruggs didn't score in the second half. Jason Carter made some shots but he also took some bad shots late with the game on the line.

Zach Freemantle was Xavier's only real offense in the second half, but he gave up more points defensively than he scored. Dwon Odom and Colby Jones were electric early but Jones, who scored 10 points in the first half, was held scoreless the rest of the game, and Odom made a costly mistake by fouling Harris 20 feet away from the basket with three seconds left in overtime. Harris went to the line and made both free throws to give Butler the lead for good.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but ultimately it's Steele's job to have his team ready and it's also his job to adjust when things aren't working.

When the upcoming offseason arrives it's going to be the most important of Steele's young career. He has to find a way to produce a tough team that gets better as the season goes on, not worse.

....................

Can this young man open his mind in order to realize his mistakes? We talk about them here (obvious deficiencies), they are talked about in the newspaper, and I imagine Greg Christopher sees what is going on as well.

Now allow me to pose a management question to you: you build your program on a structure that rewards playing time based on effort and performance realized in practice. A player like Carter soaks up the performance points and finds himself on the court in games. A player like Tandy, for the most part this season apparently, under performs in practice and finds himself sulking on the bench.

Let’s say Travis had done the right thing and scratched his rigid structure, allowing Tandy to play more. Let’s further suppose that the result of that action led to replacing bad losses with needed wins.

Now for the question: how do you manage that as a coach? How do you allow for exceptions to a system that still allows you to retain respect of your players?

Part of the answer in my mind is that Travis steel truly has to become “tougher“ and assume a proper distance as a head coach between himself and his players.

p.s. Believe me, I know this is not original thinking, but from watching the BET this week, we absolutely must get Fremantle help in the front court. We simply did not have a BE level front court solution for the competition we went up against the season.



Where is this front court help going to come from? We have a project in Miles who we don’t know where he is at in his progression and a freshman which is asking a lot for a freshman big. I guess that leads you to the transfer portal but finding a quality big will be difficult as they are hard to come by.

[xavierj]

[/B]

Where is this front court help going to come from? We have a project in Miles who we don’t know where he is at in his progression and a freshman which is asking a lot for a freshman big. I guess that leads you to the transfer portal but finding a quality big will be difficult as they are hard to come by.

I think we really need someone to just be the anti Carter. Someone who is a constant threat from three, can drive and finish and rebound. Someone athletic.

[whopper]

it is clear that somehow we thought that schools like Georgetown, Depaul, Marquette we somehow games we should have won turned out to be fools gold. Depaul killed Providence and probably would have beat us, Georgetown is quite a bit better and even Marquette seems better. Not to mention that Butler beat both Villanova and Creighton so clearly we overvalued our team (which I love and am a fan of). We got some work to do. Georgetown has almost doubled Creighton as I watch

[stammina0721]

Guys look at the players on these other Big East teams. I'm sorry but not only is Steele a bad coach but he isn't bringing in quality that can play. These teams are just physically on a different level

[stammina0721]

Jason Carter would get zero minutes on any other Big East team.

[xuphan]

it is clear that somehow we thought that schools like Georgetown, Depaul, Marquette we somehow games we should have won turned out to be fools gold. Depaul killed Providence and probably would have beat us, Georgetown is quite a bit better and even Marquette seems better. Not to mention that Butler beat both Villanova and Creighton so clearly we overvalued our team (which I love and am a fan of). We got some work to do. Georgetown has almost doubled Creighton as I watch

I am happy for Pat Ewing as I think he is a good fit at GTown and the Big East. Was worried when he lost all of those transfers last year.

[whopper]

I am tired of the Carter bashing. As a player you know when you are performing sub par and I think he was put in a tough situation. Let us be better than that.. I am not wild about his minutes this year or even last..10 minutes less would have made him and his back up(or co equal) better and more confident

[stammina0721]

I am tired of the Carter bashing. As a player you know when you are performing sub par and I think he was put in a tough situation. Let us be better than that.. I am not wild about his minutes this year or even last..10 minutes less would have made him and his back up(or co equal) better and more confident

Well Steele didn't do that. He made him front and center so he gets all the bashing he gets for performing how he did when you are a starter in the Big East. Comes with the territory

[UCGRAD4X]

Well Steele didn't do that. He made him front and center so he gets all the bashing he gets for performing how he did when you are a starter in the Big East. Comes with the territory

I don't think much of this is necessarily criticism on Carter per se. I think he obviously worked his ass off in practice per Steele's ignominious point system, and I also think he worked hard in the games. It is not his fault that he just doesn't have the skill level or natural ability to compete in the Big East.

The "criticism" is simply pointing this out in justification of the criticism of the coaching decision to play him so much.

[XUGRAD80]

I don’t think it’s “bashing” to point out where a player is lacking in ability. No one is attacking him personally for being a bad person, teammate, or representative of X. They are pointing out deficiencies in his PLAY. They are also questioning the use of him by the coaching staff. He’s a MAC star who lacks the basketball ability to compete successfully against BE caliber frontline players that are bigger and stronger than what he faced in the MAC. That’s not “bashing” or blaming him for Xavier’s problems. The problem is exactly what others have said. Xavier simply is a “donut” team. They have a hole in the middle of the lineup. Neither Carter or Freemantle are the answer to that problem. Nor does Miles appear to be the answer, at least not at this point in his career. Xavier really struggled against teams that have a solid middle presence, and there was/is nobody on the roster that could solve that problem. Xavier did try to recruit players that might have been the answer, but they didn’t land any. Griffin was brought in with the hope that he might be another HankyMcStanky, but that didn’t work out either. I don’t really understand why Steele played Carter so much at times, but I also realize that nobody else on the roster was an obvious answer. My problem here is that Steele didn’t adjust how the team played to take advantage of the skills of the roster. Instead he tried to make the players adjust to his system. From what I saw all year, Carter really tried to do everything he was asked to do. He played really hard. Sometimes that’s just not enough though. He ended to be 2-3 inches taller, 20-30 lbs heavier, and have more strength and quickness....a lot to ask for, but it’s the kind of player(s) X doesn’t have on the roster.

The good news....there will probably be some transfers that just might be the answer available, and Xavier will have some open roster spots/scholarships available.

The not so good news....unless something changes X may not be able to entice any of them to come.

[Masterofreality]

Guys look at the players on these other Big East teams. I'm sorry but not only is Steele a bad coach but he isn't bringing in quality that can play. These teams are just physically on a different level

Look at those recruiting rankings though!! #StatisticsAreForLosers

[xavierj]

Look at those recruiting rankings though!! #StatisticsAreForLosers

And how old they are. Georgetown and Creighton have a lot of senior leadership. Look at Georgia Tech. Nothing but seniors and a couple of Juniors and a sophomore. Your team Loyola has 5 seniors among the top 7. Not many non blue bloods are dancing with a bunch young guys. I get Xavier had Scruggs and Carter but were playing three freshman and a sophomore a ton of minutes late in the year. That’s good for the future but not ideal trying to do damage unless those young guys are about to be pros. Have to get older and stay older. And have to get stronger.

[bleedXblue]

Guys look at the players on these other Big East teams. I'm sorry but not only is Steele a bad coach but he isn't bringing in quality that can play. These teams are just physically on a different level

This is 10000000% correct. We aren't recruiting the kind of players needed to win and compete in the Big East. I love Adam Kunkel as a reserve off the bench to knock down some shots. That's it. Jason Carter, not even remotely close athletically. Again a reserve off the bench. I like our 3 frosh plus Zach, but after that we are in trouble. I wish I knew if Ramsey or Miles could play. We have no idea bc they didn't play this year. If Miles cant add 20-30 more lbs he looks to me like he's going to struggle in the post against long athletic players.

Trying not to be too negative, but I'm not liking what I see and we have a coach that clearly is struggling with a whole host of things.......

[xavierj]

This is 10000000% correct. We aren't recruiting the kind of players needed to win and compete in the Big East. I love Adam Kunkel as a reserve off the bench to knock down some shots. That's it. Jason Carter, not even remotely close athletically. Again a reserve off the bench. I like our 3 frosh plus Zach, but after that we are in trouble. I wish I knew if Ramsey or Miles could play. We have no idea bc they didn't play this year. If Miles cant add 20-30 more lbs he looks to me like he's going to struggle in the post against long athletic players.

Trying not to be too negative, but I'm not liking what I see and we have a coach that clearly is struggling with a whole host of things.......

The kind of players needed don’t just happen as soon as they step on Campus. Have to develop them and have to have a good strength and conditioning program. Miles can help but needs to be 250, not 200 lbs. same with Kunkel, Colby, and Zach. They all need to get bigger and stronger to be more effective. I look forward to them doing that this off season. Can’t get bullied next year, have to be the bully.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Don't know if this is has been pointed out or not ... but I just noticed that we lost to every Big East team that we played this season.

We have also lost to every BE team at home under Steele except Georgetown and St. Johns.

[drudy23]

I also think we've drastically lowered the bar with our non conference schedule. It used to be something to look forward to.

I realize that's a result of the move to the Big East, but it's not been a good preparation for league play.

As I've previously mentioned, Steele likes long, skinny shooters. That's also who is in the recruiting pipeline. He's taken this "new age" player profile and gone all in on it. We need a Tyrique in the worst way, and until we get a couple of those on the roster, I see a similar pattern every year. Look pretty good in the non-conference against inferior competition, and get bullied in conference play.

[stammina0721]

I don’t think it’s “bashing” to point out where a player is lacking in ability. No one is attacking him personally for being a bad person, teammate, or representative of X. They are pointing out deficiencies in his PLAY. They are also questioning the use of him by the coaching staff. He’s a MAC star who lacks the basketball ability to compete successfully against BE caliber frontline players that are bigger and stronger than what he faced in the MAC. That’s not “bashing” or blaming him for Xavier’s problems. The problem is exactly what others have said. Xavier simply is a “donut” team. They have a hole in the middle of the lineup. Neither Carter or Freemantle are the answer to that problem. Nor does Miles appear to be the answer, at least not at this point in his career. Xavier really struggled against teams that have a solid middle presence, and there was/is nobody on the roster that could solve that problem. Xavier did try to recruit players that might have been the answer, but they didn’t land any. Griffin was brought in with the hope that he might be another HankyMcStanky, but that didn’t work out either. I don’t really understand why Steele played Carter so much at times, but I also realize that nobody else on the roster was an obvious answer. My problem here is that Steele didn’t adjust how the team played to take advantage of the skills of the roster. Instead he tried to make the players adjust to his system. From what I saw all year, Carter really tried to do everything he was asked to do. He played really hard. Sometimes that’s just not enough though. He ended to be 2-3 inches taller, 20-30 lbs heavier, and have more strength and quickness....a lot to ask for, but it’s the kind of player(s) X doesn’t have on the roster.

The good news....there will probably be some transfers that just might be the answer available, and Xavier will have some open roster spots/scholarships available.

The not so good news....unless something changes X may not be able to entice any of them to come.

Yes the bashing is not personal. I won't speak for others but none of my comments are about him as a person. But as a Big East basketball player I am and will be critical

[xavierj]

I also think we've drastically lowered the bar with our non conference schedule. It used to be something to look forward to.

I realize that's a result of the move to the Big East, but it's not been a good preparation for league play.

As I've previously mentioned, Steele likes long, skinny shooters. That's also who is in the recruiting pipeline. He's taken this "new age" player profile and gone all in on it. We need a Tyrique in the worst way, and until we get a couple of those on the roster, I see a similar pattern every year. Look pretty good in the non-conference against inferior competition, and get bullied in conference play.

Yes we need someone like Tyrique but senior Tyrique and even junior Tyrique wasn’t that as a freshman and sophomore.

[drudy23]

Yes we need someone like Tyrique but senior Tyrique and even junior Tyrique wasn’t that as a freshman and sophomore.

The skills weren't there, but the body and athleticism were. He may not have scored much, but he could bang. And if you have 2-3 of those type of guys at different age levels, you're set (one developed, one developing).

[bleedXblue]

The kind of players needed don’t just happen as soon as they step on Campus. Have to develop them and have to have a good strength and conditioning program. Miles can help but needs to be 250, not 200 lbs. same with Kunkel, Colby, and Zach. They all need to get bigger and stronger to be more effective. I look forward to them doing that this off season. Can’t get bullied next year, have to be the bully.

Miles has been on campus two full season now. We aren't in the A-10 anymore. It cant take guys 2+ seasons to develop and be ready. On top of that, you gotta play them. If you think between now and next October, Kunkel is going to add 15-20 LBS and be a different player, you are kidding yourself.

[LOLmickcronin]

Miles has been on campus two full season now. We aren't in the A-10 anymore. It cant take guys 2+ seasons to develop and be ready. On top of that, you gotta play them. If you think between now and next October, Kunkel is going to add 15-20 LBS and be a different player, you are kidding yourself.

Sure you can. Some players need to show up ready. If you got a couple guys that develop that’s fine it’s actually a good mix but you do have to give them that ability and get them some minutes. Even at blue chip programs they’ll have some guys that take a couple years to develop. You’re not gonna have every recruit come in as a freshman and average 20.

You’re right about kunkel though.

[Masterofreality]

There’s nothing else to be said now about Coach Practice on this thread, for me.
He has now officially taken this program to the dumpster for 3 years- This year with “His Guys”. His last game was a 19 point second half and blowing a 15 plus point lead in the second half vs a team that lost its next game by 30. He went 2-6 in his last 8 games. He blew an NCAA bid and visibly misused a roster—AGAIN.

He won’t be fired, but no Xavier fan can be fired up about anything this offseason. The AFO Golf Outing will be a very interesting event this year and it remains to be seen if Steele even shows up. I’ve already heard that there will be no Butler County Steak Fry this summer. Cincinnati, we have a problem.

There is going to be a lot of skepticism next November and no forgiveness. Steele has burned all the goodwill. Gird your loins. Playtime is over.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I have seen and read enough. Steele should be done. If Kelsey pulls off an upset of Nova and we don’t hire him, we deserve being bottom feeders.Steele is just coming off like little man Cronin and that just isn’t what X is about. This is the first time I am embarrassed about our coach. We have lost before but this on a level I just don’t like.

[xavierj]

I have seen and read enough. Steele should be done. If Kelsey pulls off an upset of Nova and we don’t hire him, we deserve being bottom feeders.Steele is just coming off like little man Cronin and that just isn’t what X is about. This is the first time I am embarrassed about our coach. We have lost before but this on a level I just don’t like.

Oh boy...

[OTRMUSKIE]

Pat Kelsey is going to the sweet 16. At that point Xavier needs to fire up the Buick and have it parked outside his plane.

[Xavier]

Jesus.

[throwbackmuskie]

Speaking of Kelsey, I think he maybe South Carolina's choice if they miss out on Boynton....

[bleedXblue]

Speaking of Kelsey, I think he maybe South Carolina's choice if they miss out on Boynton....

He's going to get some nice offers this off season.

Based on how things went down with his leaving Xavier, he may never want to return.

[drudy23]

He's going to get some nice offers this off season.

Based on how things went down with his leaving Xavier, he may never want to return.

Well he did interview here a couple years ago, didn't he?

[Xville]

He's going to get some nice offers this off season.

Based on how things went down with his leaving Xavier, he may never want to return.

Can someone remind me what happened with him and x?

[bleedXblue]

There’s nothing else to be said now about Coach Practice on this thread, for me.
He has now officially taken this program to the dumpster for 3 years- This year with “His Guys”. His last game was a 19 point second half and blowing a 15 plus point lead in the second half vs a team that lost its next game by 30. He went 2-6 in his last 8 games. He blew an NCAA bid and visibly misused a roster—AGAIN.

He won’t be fired, but no Xavier fan can be fired up about anything this offseason. The AFO Golf Outing will be a very interesting event this year and it remains to be seen if Steele even shows up. I’ve already heard that there will be no Butler County Steak Fry this summer. Cincinnati, we have a problem.

There is going to be a lot of skepticism next November and no forgiveness. Steele has burned all the goodwill. Gird your loins. Playtime is over.

As frustrated as I am, things could be much, much worse. Dumpster fire? No. Short leash? Yes, lets hope so. I'm prepared to support him through next year. I hope he figures something out. I expect at least one transfer out in the offseason. I also expect more of the same with plugging huge holes with transfers. Not a good long term strategy. You cant miss on the sophomore class like he apparently has. 1 of 4 guys playing significant minutes? If Miles, Tandy or Ramsey developed this past year and were clearly going to be part of the rotation next year, different story.

[bleedXblue]

Well he did interview here a couple years ago, didn't he?

Did he? Was that fact or rumor?

[drudy23]

Did he? Was that fact or rumor?

I have no idea - but thought I remember numerous reports with him being part of the applicant pool when Steele got hired.

[bleedXblue]

I have no idea - but thought I remember numerous reports with him being part of the applicant pool when Steele got hired.

Yeah, we largely ignored any external candidate IMHO.


I think Christopher did his thing and likely considered and talked to a few other coaches, but I think his mind was already made.

[markchal]

Steele's tenure just feels very familiar, and next season is shaping up to be no different. This late season collapse was eerily similar to last season's (key starter hurt, losing some very winnable games, choking in BE play-in), you knew how it was gonna play out before it even happened. Next season feels like it's already going to follow the same script; someone transferring out, 2-3 guys transferring in, spending the first chunk of an average-at-best noncon figuring out how the 5 new faces meld with the returners who are figuring out their new roles and identities, followed by a Big East slate that rolls back what we thought we figured out.

Oh and unlike past years, we have no senior leadership heading into next year and much bigger holes (on paper) with the returning crew than we did heading into this season. Maybe it's not a dumpster fire, but mediocrity is probably worse long-term for the program.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Rumor is the DePaul is shit canning Leitao today. Does that leave us with the worst coach in the Big East?