Travis Discussion

[GoMuskies]

As long as Steele puts together the best team in the history of the program in his year 4 he'll continue to be right on the Miller track!

[Blue Blooded-05]

I agree and I also lack confidence in Steele at this point. The play on the court coupled with his post-game comments has me worried. We were successful twice in a relatively short time period with the 'promote from within' coaching philosophy. Eventually you are going to get a bad hire. The key question is what you do after that.


This is basically exactly how I feel, but I also have to imagine there's no way in hell any of us had that confidence in Miller to put it together before he did. But it's impossible to look at it objectively knowing what we know now about Sean's coaching ability.

Miller's second year was "better" than Steele's in that he went .500 in a HORRENDOUS A-10 and then ran through the conference tournament. Miller's third year was a 9 seed that really came together down the stretch and should have upset OSU. It's impossible to make direct comparisons across different conferences though. There's also the COVID factor to this season which really can't be discounted. It's hard to know.

Miller felt the heat and acted accordingly. Kicking Dedrick Finn off the team was a turning point in his coaching trajectory. This was a big move at the time. Finn was a senior captain and a major piece of the Elite 8 team just two years before AND the team had just lost the other senior, Brian Thornton, for the season due to injury.

Miller asserted dominance and never looked back.

Steele needs to assert dominance with these guys. Poor play has consequences. In Miller’s case it was easier because Finn was a sh!thead. I am not saying Carter should be kicked off the team. But making a statement to the team by banishing him to the bench after scoring a total of 2 points in the last 3 games where he played a total of 75 game minutes is a good start.

[boozehound]

Miller felt the heat and acted accordingly. Kicking Dedrick Finn off the team was a turning point in his coaching trajectory. This was a big move at the time. Finn was a senior captain and a major piece of the Elite 8 team just two years before AND the team had just lost the other senior, Brian Thornton, for the season due to injury.

Miller asserted dominance and never looked back.

Steele needs to assert dominance with these guys. Poor play has consequences. In Miller’s case it was easier because Finn was a sh!thead. I am not saying Carter should be kicked off the team. But making a statement to the team by banishing him to the bench after scoring a total of 2 points in the last 3 games where he played a total of 75 game minutes is a good start.

I'm not sure that I agree that Steele not 'asserting his dominance' over the team is the problem. I think it actually seems like he might be trying to assert too much dominance in some places (see: Tandy, KyKy).

I also don't know that I think the Carter / Finn analogy is apt. Finn was kicked off the team for off the court stuff, not poor play. From all accounts Carter is a great teammate who works hard in practice. He just isn't really that good.

I actually think it might be much worse - Steele just flat-out doesn't know what to do or how to game plan.

[Xavier]

From my memory losing Finn wasn't a big deal. Maybe he wasn't having a good year? I can't remember....just remember not being upset about it. Also, Steele has asserted dominance but it is directed at KyKY.

Miller was able to really learn and come into his own in the A-10...I think Travis is missing that. He could be a fine coach and if we were in the A-10, by now he may have a little momentum. Overall competition is a lot harder and I suppose I can see how developing players is more challenging. You don't have the cakewalks where you can give young guys more time, etc. etc. From Mack to Steele, the list isn't huge on guys who dramatically improved from day one in the Big East (Still see some instances, like Farr).

We absolutely have to get back to better player development. That is the only way X will get back to where we want to be.

[Xuperman]

Probably a few more here have been lured to the dark side concerning Coach Steele after last night. I am no where close for the following reasons.

How can the Coach be criticized for X's & O's/poor game decisions when the PLAYERS don't execute? Hard to get any road win in this conference when shooting 32% from the floor.....this was not the 1st time. Plus, Scruggs can't turn in a terrible game like that....not on Coach, right?

After all the screaming here about Tandy minutes, Coach turned him loose and he was our best player last night. Also, he cut Carter's minutes to 20, to the satisfaction of most here. Popular Coach decision, right?

Its official, Coach Steele's first 2 recruiting classes are home runs...Tandy will produce. Hard to argue that we don't have the best young talent in the Big East. Mucho props to Coach, right?

I'm an experience is everything type guy. Travis has the reputation of living/breathing bball...a real student of the game. With zero head coaching experience, he must be given a chance grow as the head guy. I think a full rotation of recruits is reasonable, no?

Lastly, by all accounts, Travis Steele is a HIGH CHARACTER young man. Exactly the type of quantity individual you would want as the face of Xavier basketball, right?

None of this can be considered excuses. The bumps in the road are called growing pains people and they're unavoidable.

Hope you enjoyed this serving of pumped sunshine. :clap:

[chico]

As long as Steele puts together the best team in the history of the program in his year 4 he'll continue to be right on the Miller track!

Well Sean's brother is likely on the way out at IU so maybe we pick up one of their recruits.

[AviatorX]

Well Sean's brother is likely on the way out at IU so maybe we pick up one of their recruits.

Logan Duncomb (an actual former target) could be a great Carter replacement. Unfortunately, that's all IU has on tap for next season...

[bleedXblue]

Consistent theme's have emerged all 3 seasons for Steele. Hasn't been able to turn the corner. I hope it works out, but as I have said all year his seat is gonna be (or should be) hot next year. We have too good of a program to accept mediocrity.

[markchal]

How can the Coach be criticized for X's & O's/poor game decisions when the PLAYERS don't execute? Hard to get any road win in this conference when shooting 32% from the floor.....this was not the 1st time. Plus, Scruggs can't turn in a terrible game like that....not on Coach, right?


whew, thank God it's just the players fault we're going to miss the tournament for a third straight year. Now, if only there was someone who could be accountable and in charge of the players, like deciding who gets to play, and working on how they should play, and helping them develop how they play

[drudy23]

Logan Duncomb (an actual former target) could be a great Carter replacement. Unfortunately, that's all IU has on tap for next season...

He's going to need a couple years to bulk up. He's skinnier than Miles.

Zero chance he could push around Big East bigs as a freshman. He weighs like 210. You probably have to be a minimum 240 to bang in this league.

[AviatorX]

He's going to need a couple years to bulk up. He's skinnier than Miles.

Zero chance he could push around Big East bigs as a freshman. He weighs like 210. You probably have to be a minimum 240 to bang in this league.

Yep. Really I was being sarcastic. I'm sure this board would love another finesse big (at least on day one) added to the mix!

[paulxu]

I've followed basketball at Xavier since my time there in the 60's.
Have seen incredible highs...and lows.
Have the same concerns about why we don't use more of some line-ups in-game that seem more productive than others.

But...have to keep remembering (have to) that the coach sees stuff we don't see; even if we have coached before.
He sees the locker room, knows the injuries minutely, feels the chemistry (or lack of) with some player mixes.
Am always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hope we have a good ending to this season, for the seniors and the team's sake. I do believe the coach is doing all that he can to be successful.
Time will tell if he's the right man for the Xavier job. Too soon yet I think.

[Xuperman]

whew, thank God it's just the players fault we're going to miss the tournament for a third straight year. Now, if only there was someone who could be accountable and in charge of the players, like deciding who gets to play, and working on how they should play, and helping them develop how they play

You're certainly not alone here with this kind of thinking but there seems to be a blind spot in regards to reality.

These are high D1 athletes who have been coached in the game for most of their lives, mostly in high profile schools and elite AAU programs. Of course they're still developing but there is nothing out there in the media or other info sources that indicate the players are being poorly coached by Steele and staff...that's just ridiculous.

Obviously only the players, play the games. In this conference the competition as good as any in the country. It simply comes down execution and productivity. I just can't make the connection between players bricking a bunch of open threes to coaching, let alone fire the coach.

[markchal]

there just seems to be a lot of games where afterwards we bemoan how unusually well other teams shot from 3 against us ("they must've been hot") and how poorly we shot ("if we just made x amount more 3s", etc etc).

I don't put the blame for the players performance solely on coaching, but I think it's fair to say the head coach is the one accountable for the team's overall performance.

[boozehound]

whew, thank God it's just the players fault we're going to miss the tournament for a third straight year. Now, if only there was someone who could be accountable and in charge of the players, like deciding who gets to play, and working on how they should play, and helping them develop how they play

If only there was someone who was responsible for putting the players in a position to execute. We could pay them Millions of dollars per year to figure out a way to put the team in the best possible position to execute and win games. Oh well.

[Thor in 204]

If my understanding is right, Coach Graves was hired to be an advisory bench coach. If that’s an acknowledgment that Coach Steele is wanting help during a learning curve, then I say good idea. I have no idea what kind of impact Graves has had.
Also, missing so many practices probably affects shooting as well as the play that leads up to every shot.
I remember well the transition Sean Miller made into being a head coach and in command of the team. He learned something about his relationship with the players and how to transmit his own toughness.
I don’t think Travis Steele knows how to do that as well as he needs to. Maybe because Sean Miller played in the Big East he had more experiential knowledge of how to play with intensity all the time.
Steele talks about how the players have to play hard for 40 minutes, but is that to a significant extent a coachable skill?
I think the team has shot better when they’re playing with strong intensity.

[Xuperman]

If only there was someone who was responsible for putting the players in a position to execute. We could pay them Millions of dollars per year to figure out a way to put the team in the best possible position to execute and win games. Oh well.

This statement has no teeth and is beginning to be an all too frequent "blanket" type statement to bash Steele. If a player is afforded an open look in the context of our half court offense, then he HAS BEEN in the best possible position to execute.

Coach has been extremely effective in providing a sh!t load of clean looks while operating in his system, but our guys have really been struggling to ring the bell. Yes, it is the job of any coach to engineer an offense to provide the highest number of high percentage shots. How can anyone here argue that Coach Steele is not doing a respectable job in that department?

[GoMuskies]

Yes, it is the job of any coach to engineer an offense to provide the highest number of high percentage shots. How can anyone here argue that Coach Steele is not doing a respectable job in that department?

It is also the job of a coach to provide the players that will make said looks.

The guys also take a lot of gawdawful early shots not in the flow of the offense.

[Masterofreality]

This statement has no teeth and is beginning to be an all too frequent "blanket" type statement to bash Steele. If a player is afforded an open look in the context of our half court offense, then he HAS BEEN in the best possible position to execute.

Coach has been extremely effective in providing a sh!t load of clean looks while operating in his system, but our guys have really been struggling to ring the bell. Yes, it is the job of any coach to engineer an offense to provide the highest number of high percentage shots. How can anyone here argue that Coach Steele is not doing a respectable job in that department?

This is total Bull.
Compare the number of “clean looks” Xavier players get while they are still moving to get into position vs other teams “stand still/feet set” looks.
Our guys may not have a hand in their face but far too often their feet are not quiet and set. This is an offense schematic problem.
Our guys are rushing shots. Stop with this “clean looks” trash.

[boozehound]

This statement has no teeth and is beginning to be an all too frequent "blanket" type statement to bash Steele. If a player is afforded an open look in the context of our half court offense, then he HAS BEEN in the best possible position to execute.

Coach has been extremely effective in providing a sh!t load of clean looks while operating in his system, but our guys have really been struggling to ring the bell. Yes, it is the job of any coach to engineer an offense to provide the highest number of high percentage shots. How can anyone here argue that Coach Steele is not doing a respectable job in that department?

Extremely effective? I guess his offense seems to do a decent job of getting Freemantle and Carter open perimeter looks, but it isn't translating into the shot makers knocking anything down.

The coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens. That's why they get so much money. This is year 3. I'm not going to be mad when he gets another season next year, but I'm not really a big fan of what I have seen (or heard) from him so far.

[markchal]

It is also the job of a coach to provide the players that will make said looks.



exactly...it's crazy some give Travis a pass, like he had nothing to do with the roster construction and player management

[boozehound]

exactly...it's crazy some give Travis a pass, like he had nothing to do with the roster construction and player management

The Cronin Paradox: They are his players, but he never really owns their performance.

[drudy23]

exactly...it's crazy some give Travis a pass, like he had nothing to do with the roster construction and player management

Or personnel decisions during the game, or gameplan.

[MHettel]

Extremely effective? I guess his offense seems to do a decent job of getting Freemantle and Carter open perimeter looks, but it isn't translating into the shot makers knocking anything down.



Freemantle and Carter getting open looks is not a byproduct of the offense.

It's the byproduct of the defense. As in the defense is baiting those guys to shoot. Neither one is particularly effective at shooting the 3, and they are also too far out to effectively rebound.

Of course they are open. The defense was designed to create that.

[Strange Brew]

Freemantle and Carter getting open looks is not a byproduct of the offense.

It's the byproduct of the defense. As in the defense is baiting those guys to shoot. Neither one is particularly effective at shooting the 3, and they are also too far out to effectively rebound.

Of course they are open. The defense was designed to create that.

Wow, you’re right. Sure feels like Free is shooting better than 31.9% from 3.

[boozehound]

Freemantle and Carter getting open looks is not a byproduct of the offense.

It's the byproduct of the defense. As in the defense is baiting those guys to shoot. Neither one is particularly effective at shooting the 3, and they are also too far out to effectively rebound.

Of course they are open. The defense was designed to create that.

I was being sarcastic. I really hope that getting Carter and Freemantle open 3's doesn't factor into the offensive scheme.

[Masterofreality]

Freemantle and Carter getting open looks is not a byproduct of the offense.

It's the byproduct of the defense. As in the defense is baiting those guys to shoot. Neither one is particularly effective at shooting the 3, and they are also too far out to effectively rebound.

Of course they are open. The defense was designed to create that.

100%

[Xuperman]

This is total Bull.
Compare the number of “clean looks” Xavier players get while they are still moving to get into position vs other teams “stand still/feet set” looks.
Our guys may not have a hand in their face but far too often their feet are not quiet and set. This is an offense schematic problem.
Our guys are rushing shots. Stop with this “clean looks” trash.

Bull/Trash??? An uncontested look from distance is what has made Nova and the GQJ model. HIS players have been fortunate to knock them down at a very high percentage.... our guys not so much, YET!

Feet set? Are you serious? I have re-watched the entire season and Coach Steele has orchestrated a massiive amount of c!ean looks WITH set footing....many times our shooters are set in cement. But obviously, our shots have not been falling lately. NOT on Coach...having mass difficulty in understanding why player execution is being overlooked.

[GoMuskies]

Because he recruits and coaches those non-performing players.

[bleedXblue]

Because he recruits and coaches those non-performing players.

Or doesn't play and develop them......see Tandy, Miles and Ramsey. The two big guys especially in a year where we really need post help. Are you telling me one of those guys cant give us what Griffin has this year? If so, that's lousy recruiting and development.

[AviatorX]

Or doesn't play and develop them......see Tandy, Miles and Ramsey. The two big guys especially in a year where we really need post help. Are you telling me one of those guys cant give us what Griffin has this year? If so, that's lousy recruiting and development.

Miles and Ramsey (especially so) are basically never even available to play or practice. Can't really blame the coach for that. Plenty of other problems to focus on.

[Xavier]

It also isn't exactly like we have had a lot of breathing room in games where we can bring guys in and get them time. Typically you'd probably see more of that in the non schedule. We were just busy struggling against almost every team we have played.

[murray87]

And on the topic of not being in shape due to COVID, why couldn't guys individually (particularly Miles, Ramsey, Griffin) have been motivated/pushed by the staff to do a lot of running and other cardio? If nothing else, run up that steep hill that goes from the back of Cintas up to the back parking lot. Jog back down, run up again.......and again......and again. As much as we've banged on Huggins over the years, he would never accept his bigs being out of shape or they were living on the exercise bike.

[AviatorX]

And on the topic of not being in shape due to COVID, why couldn't guys individually (particularly Miles, Ramsey, Griffin) have been motivated/pushed by the staff to do a lot of running and other cardio? If nothing else, run up that steep hill that goes from the back of Cintas up to the back parking lot. Jog back down, run up again.......and again......and again. As much as we've banged on Huggins over the years, he would never accept his bigs being out of shape or they were living on the exercise bike.

I mean, Griffin had COVID so he had to sit out a while (not Xavier or Griffin's call), right? Was there any indication he was out of shape before that? If you aren't allowed to participate at all for multiple weeks in the middle of the season, you are going to be out of shape.

Miles has been battling some type of knee injury and has been dressed for around half of X's games. He's also a project and is probably more impacted by the stop start nature of this season more than anyone. No one realistic was counting on him to contribute this year, especially when the expectation was you'd have Freemantle, Carter, Griffin, Stanley and Colby's ability to slide to the 4.

I guess some people are willing to look past this, but it seems pretty obvious Ramsey has some significant health issues to the point where he's not really available. The Butler minutes were an absolute shock to those who cover the team, which should say it all.

So much to rightfully prod Steele for, but the focus on this is bizarre.

[bleedXblue]

Miles and Ramsey (especially so) are basically never even available to play or practice. Can't really blame the coach for that. Plenty of other problems to focus on.

Ramsey's been available for over a month and has played about 2-3 minutes. He's big and physical and we certainly could have thrown him in the first half of the GT game to see if he could actually grab a few rebounds. I'm not advocating 15 minutes a game. But when you have guys on the floor not getting it done, aren't you supposed to go to your bench?

[AviatorX]

Ramsey's been available for over a month and has played about 2-3 minutes. He's big and physical and we certainly could have thrown him in the first half of the GT game to see if he could actually grab a few rebounds. I'm not advocating 15 minutes a game. But when you have guys on the floor not getting it done, aren't you supposed to go to your bench?

He's "available." I don't think anyone in the program would tell you he is actually physically able to play Division 1 basketball on a daily basis.

[bleedXblue]

He's "available." I don't think anyone in the program would tell you he is actually physically able to play Division 1 basketball on a daily basis.

Interesting as I've not heard anything since he was cleared to play (a month ago) to suggest that he could not play even a limited role with the team. You must know more than the rest of us.

[JTG]

He's "available." I don't think anyone in the program would tell you he is actually physically able to play Division 1 basketball on a daily basis.

We play usually 2 times a week. Ramsey can't play 5 minutes on Tues, then 5 minutes on Sat ? C'mon.

[GoMuskies]

I don't think anyone in the program would tell you he is actually physically able to play Division 1 basketball on a daily basis.

I would have thought they'd say the same about Carter, but here we are.....

(Kidding, kidding...mostly)

[xavierj]

We play usually 2 times a week. Ramsey can't play 5 minutes on Tues, then 5 minutes on Sat ? C'mon.

I think there must be more to his health than we know though. Just watching him in that short stint against Butler he did some nice things but seemed really gassed after making the dunk. I think the leg issues really bother him. I am sure if he could they would get him more time in my opinion.

[AviatorX]

I know some on here have a low opinion of Travis, but you'd have to think he's an absolute moron to just completely ignore Ramsey's existence while this team gets destroyed in the post on a nightly basis. You don't need insider knowledge to know there's obviously something going on with Ramsey's health where he isn't really available.

Seems like a great teammate and I am rooting for him, but it's very clear he is not riding the bench because he isn't good enough. Expecting anything from him going forward is just setting yourself up for disappointment (or to criticize the coach I guess).

[AviatorX]

Interesting as I've not heard anything since he was cleared to play (a month ago) to suggest that he could not play even a limited role with the team. You must know more than the rest of us.

I don't know anything more than you guys (at least about this), but the first clue was a guy who as far as we knew wasn't injured in the traditional sense being medically cleared to play out of nowhere.

[Masterofreality]

Bull/Trash??? An uncontested look from distance is what has made Nova and the GQJ model. HIS players have been fortunate to knock them down at a very high percentage.... our guys not so much, YET!

Feet set? Are you serious? I have re-watched the entire season and Coach Steele has orchestrated a massiive amount of c!ean looks WITH set footing....many times our shooters are set in cement. But obviously, our shots have not been falling lately. NOT on Coach...having mass difficulty in understanding why player execution is being overlooked.

Uh dude. In case you haven’t noticed, we are NOT Villanova. It’s been well established that they recruit and develop at a higher level than Xavier does. And guys like Carter who do have time to have their feet set are that way for a reason.
Oppo game plan: Double Scruggy, leave Carter/other non descript “shooter” alone.

[Xavier]

I'd say it certainly seems like they have missed a ton of wide open threes. I do think they have been decent at generating a lot of open looks.

[GIMMFD]

I'd say it certainly seems like they have missed a ton of wide open threes. I do think they have been decent at generating a lot of open looks.

First couple games, I thought it was just a slump, now it just seems like we suck at shooting. I'm not sure if it's a mental thing or what, because I agree, we've had some great looks that just nowhere even close to going in. Really doesn't help that we lost Nate for the season too, considering he was by far our best shooter. Wilcher and Tandy can improve it, but it's not like they're getting much burn right now either. I don't have much faith in any of our starters at the moment to be consistent from behind the arc.

[boozehound]

First couple games, I thought it was just a slump, now it just seems like we suck at shooting. I'm not sure if it's a mental thing or what, because I agree, we've had some great looks that just nowhere even close to going in. Really doesn't help that we lost Nate for the season too, considering he was by far our best shooter. Wilcher and Tandy can improve it, but it's not like they're getting much burn right now either. I don't have much faith in any of our starters at the moment to be consistent from behind the arc.

It's strange though, because many have mechanically good shots and the can shoot consistently well at times. Early in the season it seemed almost impossible for the team to shoot this badly for such a long stretch. Kunkel, Wilcher, Tandy, Jones, and Johnson can all shoot. Scruggs is a decent shooter. They have all collectively missed a lot of open and relatively-open looks in the losses.

Maybe more pull-up jumpers and less 3's for a while?

[IM4X]

I think there must be more to his health than we know though. Just watching him in that short stint against Butler he did some nice things but seemed really gassed after making the dunk. I think the leg issues really bother him. I am sure if he could they would get him more time in my opinion.

Personally, I don’t like that there even has to be all this speculation about why players are not playing. One would think Travis would simply be a little more transparent about players not playing because of issues with health. Wouldn’t hurt if the media flat out asked Steele more of these types of questions. If Ramsey is not capable of playing because of how knees or some other physical issues, then he should just put it out there.

If Ramsey is fine physically; then let the media and fans know you think keeping Carter on the floor for 30 minutes (someone who isn’t scoring and struggles to get rebounds and gets beat on defense often and looks lost on defense and still jacks up threes even though he is shooting under 15%) is a much better option than having Ramsey (who at least scores and looks solid) get some of his minutes.

[xavierj]

Personally, I don’t like that there even has to be all this speculation about why players are not playing. One would think Travis would simply be a little more transparent about players not playing because of issues with health. Wouldn’t hurt if the media flat out asked Steele more of these types of questions. If Ramsey is not capable of playing because of how knees or some other physical issues, then he should just put it out there.

If Ramsey is fine physically; then let the media and fans know you think keeping Carter on the floor for 30 minutes (someone who isn’t scoring and struggles to get rebounds and gets beat on defense often and looks lost on defense and still jacks up threes even though he is shooting under 15%) is a much better option than having Ramsey (who at least scores and looks solid) get some of his minutes.

Well there is a thing called privacy that maybe they can’t comment. Or maybe they have not asked. I heard prior to the season that he may never play again. It was talked about last year the issue with his legs which he was born with. Blount’s disease is what I read. Heard it’s extremely painful.

[xudash]

Interesting perspective from the Marquette board:

https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/xavier-coach-161634127/

My take away from that, if you fundamentally agree with the reasoning, is that Travis is a strong recruiter and therefore has been given time to learn on the job. He will continue to be given time.

He has to figure out the inconsistency, as well as all of the other things that he has been failing that have been mentioned here and elsewhere.

Imagine how good we will be if he figures it out.

[drudy23]

From today's Enquirer article:

"We're gonna make some adjustments with our lineups. It's not because I don't believe in anybody on our team actually, I do, I have a high level of belief in every individual on our team, but certain guys work better together than with others and I think we've got to make a few adjustments in that regard."

Hey Trav, it's the last game of the season. This was obvious 2 months ago too.

[drudy23]

Interesting perspective from the Marquette board:

https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/xavier-coach-161634127/

My take away from that, if you fundamentally agree with the reasoning, is that Travis is a strong recruiter and therefore has been given time to learn on the job. He will continue to be given time.

He has to figure out the inconsistency, as well as all of the other things that he has been failing that have been mentioned here and elsewhere.

Imagine how good we will be if he figures it out.

There is some actual rational discussion in that thread, with some solid points made. I do think a solid point was made that said his level of recruiting has kind of hidden some of his coaching deficiencies. If he can put both together, he will definitely make it.

He has to get better in-game and with preparedness/gameplanning - some of that may be his assistants, I don't know. But a more polished coach already has a tournament bid locked up with this team.

[AviatorX]

From today's Enquirer article:

"We're gonna make some adjustments with our lineups. It's not because I don't believe in anybody on our team actually, I do, I have a high level of belief in every individual on our team, but certain guys work better together than with others and I think we've got to make a few adjustments in that regard."

Hey Trav, it's the last game of the season. This was obvious 2 months ago too.

I am more of a Travis defender than many on here, but if this doesn't mean Wilcher (and not Carter) at the 4, there's no words to describe how frustrating that will be. Wilcher is also the current occupant of the vaunted gold jersey so you know he's bringing it in practice.

[Xville]

From today's Enquirer article:

"We're gonna make some adjustments with our lineups. It's not because I don't believe in anybody on our team actually, I do, I have a high level of belief in every individual on our team, but certain guys work better together than with others and I think we've got to make a few adjustments in that regard."

Hey Trav, it's the last game of the season. This was obvious 2 months ago too.

Better late than never I guess. This better mean carter is out of the starting lineup though...otherwise that quote is just nonsense

[AviatorX]

Better late than never I guess. This better mean carter is out of the starting lineup though...otherwise that quote is just nonsense

100% agreed. Logically I can see going "big" to match up with Garcia/John in Marquette's front court, but no way Travis sticks with the same starters after that quote, right? And it's not like Scruggs/Freemantle/Colby are coming out of the lineup and I see no reason Odom would.

[Masterofreality]

This was Steele in the Thursday press conference:

“ "Honestly, I thought our guys were ready," said Steele. "I really did. I thought we had a great warmup, a really good practice yesterday, phenomenal, probably our best since we've come out of our last quarantine. I felt good about our guys, then all the sudden you start missing some shots and I'm telling you, I think we have an immature group.”

Welp, Travis. Maybe your trash slow it down first half strategy and offense had something to do with screwing up your good pregame warmups.
Does this guy EVER go back and look at himself as the problem and not blame the players? This is stuff that makes guys leave!
This kind of quote is the reason why I am falling off the bandwagon again with him. So Cronin, but with worse defense.

[MHettel]

Well there is a thing called privacy that maybe they can’t comment. Or maybe they have not asked. I heard prior to the season that he may never play again. It was talked about last year the issue with his legs which he was born with. Blount’s disease is what I read. Heard it’s extremely painful.

Wait. He's had this issue since he was born? And he was good enough and healthy enough just 2 years ago to play HS / AAU ball and earn a scholarship to a pretty good D1 team?

Did we just not know about this ailment, or did it make sense to take the gamble on him. He's not an overwhelming talent. Why spend a scholly on a guy with a known issue that could result in him never being fit to play. WTF?

That may seem insensitive, but that's life. Maybe he got dealt a tough hand. I didn't get to play college basketball either, for different reasons of course, but nobody is feeling sorry for me.

Dumb move to recruit a guy like that.

[Xville]

This was Steele in the Thursday press conference:

“ "Honestly, I thought our guys were ready," said Steele. "I really did. I thought we had a great warmup, a really good practice yesterday, phenomenal, probably our best since we've come out of our last quarantine. I felt good about our guys, then all the sudden you start missing some shots and I'm telling you, I think we have an immature group.”

Welp, Travis. Maybe your trash slow it down first half strategy and offense had something to do with screwing up your good pregame warmups.
Does this guy EVER go back and look at himself as the problem and not blame the players? This is stuff that makes guys leave!
This kind of quote is the reason why I am falling off the bandwagon again with him. So Cronin, but with worse defense.

I wonder what the players think when he constantly throws them under the bus in public, and takes zero accountability for his decisions.

[Final4]

This was Steele in the Thursday press conference:

“ "Honestly, I thought our guys were ready," said Steele. "I really did. I thought we had a great warmup, a really good practice yesterday, phenomenal, probably our best since we've come out of our last quarantine. I felt good about our guys, then all the sudden you start missing some shots and I'm telling you, I think we have an immature group.”

Welp, Travis. Maybe your trash slow it down first half strategy and offense had something to do with screwing up your good pregame warmups.
Does this guy EVER go back and look at himself as the problem and not blame the players? This is stuff that makes guys leave!
This kind of quote is the reason why I am falling off the bandwagon again with him. So Cronin, but with worse defense.


And more to your point. Here is another Travis quote from today’s article in the Enquirer:

“That's the only thing I care about. That's the only thing that's on my mind is our level of effort, our level of togetherness, our execution – has to be better."

Effort, togetherness, execution. Great. What about strategy? How about preparedness?

[Masterofreality]

I will continue to say this.
Our level of raw talent over each of the last three years has far exceeded the final record. Each roster has been severely misused.
Steele refuses to look inward & analyze. Stubborn and bull headed.
A formula for failure.

[drudy23]

I will continue to say this.
Our level of raw talent over each of the last three years has far exceeded the final record. Each roster has been severely misused.
Steele refuses to look inward & analyze. Stubborn and bull headed.
A formula for failure.

Agreed - especially in years one and three in terms of roster misuse - last year he just lost control of the team.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I will continue to say this.
Our level of raw talent over each of the last three years has far exceeded the final record. Each roster has been severely misused.
Steele refuses to look inward & analyze. Stubborn and bull headed.
A formula for failure.

I totally agree that Travis is stubborn. One game left in the season and only now is there talk about lineup adjustments.

While there is talent on the roster, I'm not sure that it is the right makeup of talent. Mainly we are overmatched in the post every night in the Big East. Freemantle is too small to play 5 and not the stretch 4 Travis desires. And it does not appear that this issue has been addressed moving into next season.

So unless we land a big man transfer or two, I would expect to see more of the same results going forward.

[drudy23]

The program has to start recruiting some Big East beef. It's blatantly obvious.

[markchal]

I miss the old days when our team was always peaking and playing our best ball at the end of the year.

[xudash]

I am with all of you here who take the position that Carter had better not - can't - start the game, and that his minutes should be limited.

There is no other way to see it, IMHO.

A great kid. A hard worker and good teammate. But he is quickly closing in on the Gooden Negative Value Added Award for this season.

[UCGRAD4X]

I am with all of you here who take the position that Carter had better not - can't - start the game, and that his minutes should be limited.

There is no other way to see it, IMHO.

A great kid. A hard worker and good teammate. But he is quickly closing in on the Gooden Negative Value Added Award for this season.

The difference is, we had fewer options last year. That is what makes this even more egregious.

[boozehound]

The program has to start recruiting some Big East beef. It's blatantly obvious.

It definitely seems like Travis loves the ‘stretch 4K’ but doesn’t see a lot of need for a Center. He may want to reconsider that.

[mid major]

I don't care if Kyky plays an iota of defense; I'd rather have him out there chucking up 3's.

[xudash]

The difference is, we had fewer options last year. That is what makes this even more egregious.

I agree with you, but you are making a different point. I was simply making a point about a player who tries hard, but who mostly brings negative value to the proceedings. Carter is not a BE level athlete, yet works his ass off. Gooden showed signs of being a BE level athlete, but made bad decisions and couldn’t shoot.

[Muskie in dayton]

Is it possible that maybe Travis made an analogy about a plantation? Cause that could solve a problem here.

[XUBison]

Is it possible that maybe Travis made an analogy about a plantation? Cause that could solve a problem here.

Even our coach isn’t that stupid.

[XUBison]

I am with all of you here who take the position that Carter had better not - can't - start the game, and that his minutes should be limited.

There is no other way to see it, IMHO.

A great kid. A hard worker and good teammate. But he is quickly closing in on the Gooden Negative Value Added Award for this season.

I can’t help it, I pull for Carter, and I hope he gets to dance this year. Can you imagine graduating from OU, then transfering here for two years only to become a message board goat and never make the tourney? And hey, let’s top off that steaming pile with a global pandemic for good measure.

[whopper]

i pull for him and it is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for him. If he shot last year percentage from 3 all would be well as the defense and rebounding are similar. To give an idea of the difference in competition you go down a level Oakland is playing No Kentucky Monday for an auto bid. Praying for hiim, Kyky and others to perform some magic but i learned a long time ago that making sign of cross on foul shots does not make them go in.

[whopper]

i pull for him and it is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for him. If he shot last year percentage from 3 all would be well as the defense and rebounding are similar. To give an idea of the difference in competition you go down a level Oakland is playing No Kentucky Monday for an auto bid. Praying for hiim, Kyky and others to perform some magic but i learned a long time ago that making sign of cross on foul shots does not make them go in.

one thing i will say is i dont recall him playing the 5 last year or even the 4. I kind of thought that Naj was the rebounding forward(due to his skill)even though shorter a little and Tyrique and Zach were the 5 and 4 when in. The role he is in seems strange, better 15 min a game at a couple of positions. Damn if he hit 10% more 3s and i just think that is confidence but make it up on the other end if you can

[Masterofreality]

I was going back this morning and doing a little reflection about how good coaches use the available assets they have and tailor their system to fit the guys they have.
The perfect example of that is Peter Gillen with the 1987-1988 Muskies. Peter started out the year playing a more slowdown game because he had big guys like Tyrone Hill, Derek Strong and Dexter Campbell. They also, however had guys like Byron Larkin, Stan Kimbrough Jamal Walker and JD Barnett. After the very first game where they lost a 67-61 grind it out game to Marquette, Pete said screw this. I’m letting my Thorobreds run. They went on to a 26-4 record, scored over 100 points 11 times and over 90 7 more times. Larkin and Kimbrough were the leading scorers on that team despite it having two long term NBA players on it.
See? That is coaching. Recognizing that maybe your preconceived idea about what your “system” should be maybe doesn’t fit the raw talent you have.
Steele keeps trying to play a system that was used by Mack and him with centers like Tyrique Jones. Welp, that kind of guy ain’t here and you, Travis, recruited a bunch of 2’s and 3’s-the roster is top heavy in them-that you are playing slow down ball with. The Georgetown game was a microcosm of the season. Try to play your “grind it out” halfcourt “system” in the first half, get your ass kicked, then out of desperation only you finally let your thorobreds run.
Why has it taken you so long?

[Masterofreality]

Georgetown losing 51-23 at the half to UConn.
Glad Steele’s “system” worked so well!!!!!!

[paulxu]

With Bouknight back, they are getting tougher.

[Xville]

With a healthy bouknight, I think UConn is a legitimate final four sleeper...they are that good. Wish x had hired Hurley... his antics may be a little annoying to some, but he’s a very good coach.

[TheDanimal]

I don't think I have posted on this board in five years, but just wanted to swing by to say if you cannot take care of business against an under .500 team with your tournament life on the line, you should not be coaching at Xavier - and that is not open to any interpretation or debate...

[paulxu]

Might have fouled him? Really?

[Xavier]

Another end of season collapse. One win against two bad teams and you can’t do it. I know they won’t fire him after this year but I’m done

[GoMuskies]

Terrible job 3 years in. Solid D

[UCGRAD4X]

Terrible job 3 years in. Solid D

I did not recognize the sarcasm font here.

[HAAS_U]

Steele is our version of Mick Cronin... only Mick usually gets his teams to tourney.

Being a 1 seed in the NCAA feels like a decade ago right now.

[Xville]

Done..fire him on the trip back. Can’t handle this bs anymore. 3 years and still hasn’t finished above 500 in conference, that’s beyond awful

[GoMuskies]

I did not recognize the sarcasm font here.

I think it's a D. Not a total disaster that would deserve an F. Just really, really bad.

[Xavier]

2-5 in last 7 games of the year....and it isn’t exactly like the Big East was strong this year.

[markchal]

Next year is a rebuilding year anyway. We lose our top two scorers and the class we’re bringing in is underwhelming. Why keep him another year?

[UCGRAD4X]

I think it's a D. Not a total disaster that would deserve an F. Just really, really bad.

Ha! I thought you were saying it was solid defense (solid D).

[markchal]

When was the last time the program was this bad? Gotta go before Matta

[GoMuskies]

When was the last time the program was this bad? Gotta go before Matta

Prosser's last few teams sucked.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Steele is 1-5 the last two seasons in the last 3 games of the year, games that were must wins to secure a bid.

THAT. IS. NOT. GOOD.

[UCGRAD4X]

This bad, this consistently, for this long. Before Staak.

[xuphan]

Steele is 1-5 the last two seasons in the last 3 games of the year, games that were must wins to secure a bid.

THAT. IS. NOT. GOOD.

I am just ready for this season to end. I have no idea how this team moves forward next year with what we have coming back.

[Masterofreality]

I am totally unsurprised at this result.
When you totally blow a game vs a team coached by Patrick Ewing you can have no expectation you can win the next.
Let’s hear from all the defenders now. I’m sure it will be, “But the injuries...” just like last year “But the injuries..”
Where is all this depth we were supposed to have and where are all the shooters?
Total misuse of a roster 3 years in a row and simplistic, easily defended offense that plays 4 on 5. There’s your Travis Steele coaching resume, MAN!!

[Masterofreality]

Prosser's last few teams sucked.

Skip at least got to the Dance, but he only won 1 game
The last game he coached at X was an NCAA game vs Notre Dame, which, of course, he lost

[UCGRAD4X]

I don't think Travis should be shown the door when they get home. I think they should wait that long. He should be given a parachute on the plane ride home.

[XUBob]

If I’m the AD I’d let Travis know that if no NCAA next year you’re gone. Put some real pressure on him to succeed. He is 1-5 in season ending games the last two years, unacceptable at X. The only saving grace is I have to admit the guys play consistently hard for him —- a major plus. I’m worried about the overall offensive philosophy. Too many threes every game for a team that doesn’t shoot them well. He wants to green light everyone, I think that might be a mistake. Stayed with Carter too long, hurting Witcher’s development. Things have to change and in a hurry, has to start at the top.

[MHettel]

im in a weird predicament where I actually don't want us to make the tourney next year.

That's weird right? But Travis will get a 4th year, and if we manage to get a 7-10 seed he will keep his job and get an extension. And then we are UW with Lorenzo Romar.

And a bid with a BETTER seed than 7? why? improbable.

Just cut ties and pay the price. Get an X and Os guy that can win games. We tried to promote a recruiter and make him a coach.

Do you think Bobby Knight would send birthday cards to current and former players? No.

Travis is a salesman. We need a coach.

[MHettel]

im in a weird predicament where I actually don't want us to make the tourney next year.

That's weird right? But Travis will get a 4th year, and if we manage to get a 7-10 seed he will keep his job and get an extension. And then we are UW with Lorenzo Romar.

And a bid with a BETTER seed than 7? why? improbable.

Just cut ties and pay the price. Get an X and Os guy that can win games. We tried to promote a recruiter and make him a coach.

Do you think Bobby Knight would send birthday cards to current and former players? No.

Travis is a salesman. We need a coach.

Replying to my own post...

I actually expect that we see 3 assistants turnover this offseason. Get some X&O help for the strategy and gameday.

[UCGRAD4X]

im in a weird predicament where I actually don't want us to make the tourney next year.

That's weird right? But Travis will get a 4th year, and if we manage to get a 7-10 seed he will keep his job and get an extension. And then we are UW with Lorenzo Romar.

And a bid with a BETTER seed than 7? why? improbable.

Just cut ties and pay the price. Get an X and Os guy that can win games. We tried to promote a recruiter and make him a coach.

Do you think Bobby Knight would send birthday cards to current and former players? No.

Travis is a salesman. We need a coach.

I have to agree. Rip off the band-aid the let the wound begin to heal. Enough is enough.

[GoMuskies]

Skip at least got to the Dance, but he only won 1 game
The last game he coached at X was an NCAA game vs Notre Dame, which, of course, he lost

That abortion against ND was Skip's only NCAA Tournament game in his last three seasons.

[Masterofreality]

Christopher won’t cut him loose. He’s his hire and he won’t cut him now.
You know he’s coaching next year but I’m with Hett. I’m dead inside about Xavier basketball right now.
And with a new unknown President who won’t want to ruffle feathers, these are dangerous, dangerous times on the Parkway.

[UCGRAD4X]

That abortion against ND was Skip's only NCAA Tournament game in his last three seasons.

They obviously thought enough of him to bring him to the ACC. Who do you think would hire Travis at this point?

[OTRMUSKIE]

They obviously thought enough of him to bring him to the ACC. Who do you think would hire Travis at this point?

I think he needs to go back with Mack and be his assistant. Bring in Luke Murray and let’s get Bill back where he belongs

[GoMuskies]

They obviously thought enough of him to bring him to the ACC. Who do you think would hire Travis at this point?

Wake hiring Skip was one of the greatest days in program history.

Maybe Iowa State would consider Steele an upgrade?

[Masterofreality]

That abortion against ND was Skip's only NCAA Tournament game in his last three seasons.

But Skip had at least gone to the Tournament 2 out of 4 years before he left...and convinced David Freaking West to come to XU

[OTRMUSKIE]

Agreed go! Skip was the worse coach X has had since Steele.

[GoMuskies]

Prosser was great. But both sides needed him to move on.

Steele...just needs to move on.

[chico]

It will be interesting to see what season ticket sales are next year.

[Backyard Champ]

I would have more respect for the guy if he would just try something different. Like maybe say this isn’t working and play a different lineup. Maybe give Griffin 25 minutes instead of Carter. Maybe let Wilcher or Tandy play 20 minutes and see what happens. Change the style and push the ball and be on the attack instead of getting attacked. Realize you are not doing the team any favors by continuing to play the exact way every freaking game.

It’s tough because I agree to an extent. Tonight’s game was bad, but before tonight, I liked the majority of the shots we put up and forced.

[D-West & PO-Z]

They obviously thought enough of him to bring him to the ACC. Who do you think would hire Travis at this point?

Where he unfortunately continued his tourney woes with Wake. I know I remember they lost in the second round as a 2 seed once year. That may have been with Chris Paul. He was very successful there though in the regular season.

[UCGRAD4X]

Christopher won’t cut him loose. He’s his hire and he won’t cut him now.
You know he’s coaching next year but I’m with Hett. I’m dead inside about Xavier basketball right now.
And with a new unknown President who won’t want to ruffle feathers, these are dangerous, dangerous times on the Parkway.

I don't know. Maybe the new president wants to make a mark and show some leadership. Generally, I don't think it is the president's place to get involved in such matters, but the notion that they should not get rid of him because of the financial hit on the university during the covid crap year might move the prez to weigh in.

[Xuperman]

I think this board is nearing a complete melt down. Can't understand why people refuse to back a young coach and his young roster with the necessary time to mature.

Embarrassing.

[Backyard Champ]

I’m all in all Steele.

I know it’s hard- but look what Mack left him with. The leadership on that roster was some of the worst leadership we’ve seen in years at Xavier. Very, very selfish. He turned that first team around and we were playing good basketball at the end. Was that the year we were screwed on an offensive foul called on Marshall at the end of the game in the big east tournament?

Then last year, we were playing better at the end of the year, and Scruggs got hurt. Again, this was a makeshift roster after the transition. Missing Scruggs hurt big time, but we were a DePaul win away from making the tournament anyway.

This year- covid obviously. But also, a top 10 3 shooter in the country gets hurt, who is also leading the team in minutes played. Tough to overcome, but ivd Been extremely impressed with our freshman and sophomores.

It’s hard to get in and take over. If these sophomore and freshman (and even the transfers Steele has managed) are the direction he has us going? I’m all in.

I’m tough on Free because his D is atrocious, but he’s only a sophomore. Jones, Wilcher, Odom, Kyky, Kunk and Free are an amazing young core. Looking at them alone, has me excited for what Steele can do.

[drudy23]

I think this board is nearing a complete melt down. Can't understand why people refuse to back a young coach and his young roster with the necessary time to mature.

Embarrassing.

You're ridiculous if you think all of this is out of left field.

3 years.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think this board is nearing a complete melt down. Can't understand why people refuse to back a young coach and his young roster with the necessary time to mature.

Embarrassing.

What is the necessary time?

[Masterofreality]

I think this board is nearing a complete melt down. Can't understand why people refuse to back a young coach and his young roster with the necessary time to mature.

Embarrassing.

Because he has totally misused 3 rosters in 3 years, his lineups are head scratchers, his game plan’s are questionable, his offense is easily defensed and he plays favorites who apparently can’t score, cannot defend one on one and can’t rebound.
The level of effort is inconsistent. He was “proud” of a loss tonight in a must win game vs a sub .500 opponent. That shouldn’t fly with anybody.

How standards have fallen

[Xuperman]

What is the necessary time?

After he graduates his 1st year of recruits.

[Backyard Champ]

What is the necessary time?

His first roster was garbage. He had little to no time to get assistants, and a respectable team. He nearly made the tournament if it weren’t for an awful last possession call.

He lost Scruggs last year late, and still almost made the tournament.

He lost one of the best 3 shooters in the country, who also played the most minutes on the team, this year. Our young guys are excellent. Truly, his sophomore and freshman classes show a ton of potential. No debate there.

It’s hard, but Travis has had to rebuild the roaster, coaching staff, and has dealt with crucial injuries. Mack and Miller had awful years, and that was in the A10! Steele has kept us borderline tournament team, dealing with crucial injuries in the last 2 years.

It’s so frustrating because we are close. But with what Mack left us, and the fact that we were actually very close the last 2 years, and maybe this year. And looking at Steele’s guys. I’m confident that Steele will get us to the next level

[drudy23]

We don't have a Big East roster.

We have too many guards and not enough Big East beef - that's not changing anytime soon.

We've also played a much worse non-conference schedule the last few years which has caused some false hope for these teams.

We're a very average team - that much is pretty obvious.

[sgarcia]

We don't have a Big East roster.

We have too many guards and not enough Big East beef - that's not changing anytime soon.

We've also played a much worse non-conference schedule the last few years which has caused some false hope for these teams.

We're a very average team - that much is pretty obvious.

Bingo! I'd also like to point out that I think our assistant coaches are not very good and maybe Steele needs to can one of them before next season if he thinks his job is on the line.

[D-West & PO-Z]

His first roster was garbage. He had little to no time to get assistants, and a respectable team. He nearly made the tournament if it weren’t for an awful last possession call.

He lost Scruggs last year late, and still almost made the tournament.

He lost one of the best 3 shooters in the country, who also played the most minutes on the team, this year. Our young guys are excellent. Truly, his sophomore and freshman classes show a ton of potential. No debate there.

It’s hard, but Travis has had to rebuild the roaster, coaching staff, and has dealt with crucial injuries. Mack and Miller had awful years, and that was in the A10! Steele has kept us borderline tournament team, dealing with crucial injuries in the last 2 years.

It’s so frustrating because we are close. But with what Mack left us, and the fact that we were actually very close the last 2 years, and maybe this year. And looking at Steele’s guys. I’m confident that Steele will get us to the next level

I would feel better about all of this if the record in crunch time to get a tourney bid the last 2 years wasn't 1-5. It wasn't like we stunk all year both years and made huge last season pushes to all most get it. Both years we were in and played ourselves out. That is the most frustrating part.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I would feel better about all of this if the record in crunch time to get a tourney bid the last 2 years wasn't 1-5. It wasn't like we stunk all year both years and made huge last season pushes to all most get it. Both years we were in and played ourselves out. That is the most frustrating part.

TO add to this.....Xavier teams historically really improved as the season went along, we were almost always better come March than we were in December. Regardless of the talent level I would hope under Steele that would be the same, even if it didn't mean a tourney bid. That has been the opposite the last 2 years.

[XUBison]

I’m all in all Steele.

I know it’s hard- but look what Mack left him with. The leadership on that roster was some of the worst leadership we’ve seen in years at Xavier. Very, very selfish. He turned that first team around and we were playing good basketball at the end. Was that the year we were screwed on an offensive foul called on Marshall at the end of the game in the big east tournament?

Then last year, we were playing better at the end of the year, and Scruggs got hurt. Again, this was a makeshift roster after the transition. Missing Scruggs hurt big time, but we were a DePaul win away from making the tournament anyway.

This year- covid obviously. But also, a top 10 3 shooter in the country gets hurt, who is also leading the team in minutes played. Tough to overcome, but ivd Been extremely impressed with our freshman and sophomores.

It’s hard to get in and take over. If these sophomore and freshman (and even the transfers Steele has managed) are the direction he has us going? I’m all in.

I’m tough on Free because his D is atrocious, but he’s only a sophomore. Jones, Wilcher, Odom, Kyky, Kunk and Free are an amazing young core. Looking at them alone, has me excited for what Steele can do.

You and Xup are the type of fans that still go to DePaul games, telling anyone who will listen how next season will be our year.

[mid major]

We've lost 4 straight road games to teams which are probably not going to the tournament. That is truly pathetic.

[Xville]

We don't have a Big East roster.

We have too many guards and not enough Big East beef - that's not changing anytime soon.

We've also played a much worse non-conference schedule the last few years which has caused some false hope for these teams.

We're a very average team - that much is pretty obvious.

And the beef Xavier does have, Steele refuses to play much because it would cut into his boyfriends time. Tandy and griffin rotting the bench is just one of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen in college basketball ever. Sick of steele

[Masterofreality]

Steele after the game:
""I told our guys after the game, man, I was really proud of our group and listen, we play to win, we're competitors, we hate to lose here at Xavier, but I will tell you, I thought our effort from start to finish was absolutely there."

So now Coach NIT is proud of losing. Player’s Friend Coach coddling his “Immature Group”

Bring out the Participation Trophies!!!


(Maybe if your scheme and game plan were better your “execution” would match the effort)

[Xville]

Steele after the game:
""I told our guys after the game, man, I was really proud of our group and listen, we play to win, we're competitors, we hate to lose here at Xavier, but I will tell you, I thought our effort from start to finish was absolutely there."

So now Coach NIT is proud of losing. Player’s Friend Coach coddling his “Immature Group”

Bring out the Participation Trophies!!!


(Maybe if your scheme and game plan were better your “execution” would match the effort)

He’s a joke. His press conferences reflect his teams play.... uninspiring like his lineup mgmt.

[Masterofreality]

I’m all in all Steele.

I know it’s hard- but look what Mack left him with. The leadership on that roster was some of the worst leadership we’ve seen in years at Xavier. Very, very selfish. He turned that first team around and we were playing good basketball at the end. Was that the year we were screwed on an offensive foul called on Marshall at the end of the game in the big east tournament?

Then last year, we were playing better at the end of the year, and Scruggs got hurt. Again, this was a makeshift roster after the transition. Missing Scruggs hurt big time, but we were a DePaul win away from making the tournament anyway.

This year- covid obviously. But also, a top 10 3 shooter in the country gets hurt, who is also leading the team in minutes played. Tough to overcome, but ivd Been extremely impressed with our freshman and sophomores.

It’s hard to get in and take over. If these sophomore and freshman (and even the transfers Steele has managed) are the direction he has us going? I’m all in.

I’m tough on Free because his D is atrocious, but he’s only a sophomore. Jones, Wilcher, Odom, Kyky, Kunk and Free are an amazing young core. Looking at them alone, has me excited for what Steele can do.

If, if if. The “Direction he’s Going in??” What? Regression?
If Steele actually had guarded Baldwin of Butler last year, if he would have properly used the Division 2 POY the year before, if he actually made his guys get better during the year. If if if...
Can you show me any one, any player that has improved from year to year or from season start to end under Steele? KyKy has regressed, Free has regressed,
Miles and Ramsey don’t play. I don’t know if Carter was any good at all, but he’s certainty worse than last year. Colby is good, but he’s the same as is Dwon. CJ? Marginally but he didn’t play early either so who’s to know? Griffin is who he is.
There is zero improvement and his teams get worse during the year after his simple scheme is scouted.
Uh, uh, Brother.

[markchal]

I mean it's hard to say Free has totally regressed when he's one of the conference leaders in double-doubles (maybe no 1?). He has some big holes to his game and wasn't ready for the oversized role this team needed him to have, but he's a fine player. Scruggs is markedly better overall this year than he was the last few.

But don't get me wrong, I don't want to see X turn into a program that's constantly in search of a new excuse, and what we've seen the last few years (especially with late season collapses) is not Xavier basketball.

[HAAS_U]

TO add to this.....Xavier teams historically really improved as the season went along, we were almost always better come March than we were in December. Regardless of the talent level I would hope under Steele that would be the same, even if it didn't mean a tourney bid. That has been the opposite the last 2 years.

You nailed it on the head. As a fan growing up watching games at the Cincy gardens, it’s been infuriating these last few years watching X regress throughout the season and meltdown come March when the program had built its reputation on developing over the course of the season and playing their best basketball in March.

[Masterofreality]

I mean it's hard to say Free has totally regressed when he's one of the conference leaders in double-doubles (maybe no 1?). He has some big holes to his game and wasn't ready for the oversized role this team needed him to have, but he's a fine player. Scruggs is markedly better overall this year than he was the last few.

But don't get me wrong, I don't want to see X turn into a program that's constantly in search of a new excuse, and what we've seen the last few years (especially with late season collapses) is not Xavier basketball.

Free is a double double leader because of A) the minutes he plays, B) EVERYTHING runs through him.
It’s easy to get 10 rebounds when no one else-.especially Carter- does it. That’s just statistics
And Kunkel has regressed too.

[Xavier]

The only reason he puts up numbers is because he plays a ton and the whole offense runs through him isn’t making the argument you think it is..

[xavierj]

The only reason he puts up numbers is because he plays a ton and the whole offense runs through him isn’t making the argument you think it is..

Zach is shooting better from three then Paul and Kunkel this year. Zach isn’t great but he isn’t why they are 13-7 and 6-7. Xavier is 50-198 from three in 7 losses, 25%. If they shoot average like 34% in losses against Marquette, Georgetown and Creighton, they they would be 16-4, 9-4 and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. The problem is that this team has one inside scoring threat when the three doesn’t go down. That’s a recipe for disaster. The poor play is nothing more than a couple of guards not being able to knock down wide open shots. It’s that simple. When shots fall it loosens the team up and Xavier is so tight right now they just choke on the majority of wide open looks.

[bjf123]

It will be interesting to see what season ticket sales are next year.

A lot of people have already paid for next year’s season tickets. Not sure how many will want a refund.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boozehound]

A have a couple of observations from the last few games:

1. We don't have the size and athleticism we need in the front court, and it's killing us. We can't consistently score in the paint, and our rebounding is severely lacking, particularly from the front court. Unfortunately unless we can score big on a transfer, this probably isn't changing next year, either.

2. We *should* be able to shoot the 3, but we just don't seem to be able to. Even guys like Kunkel and Wilcher who are objectively good shooters can't seen to find the bottom of the net.

When you combine those two deficiencies it's a recipe for disaster that's tough to overcome. If we aren't hitting 3's to open up the offense, we don't have the muscle down low to get it done. We also don't have a single forward with a decent traditional post game.

The shooting might improve next year, although I have no reason to believe it will based on the past few seasons. The lack of muscle in the post is probably not getting fixed next year. It's not like you can just recruit a Freshman who will be a game changing 4/5 from day 1.

[Masterofreality]

So how about this. Final games against Providence, Gtown and Marq. 3 teams you need to beat in order to qualify for NCAA and have much lower Net #s. We never led in the Providence or Gtown game. And we only led 2-0 vs Marq. So in 120 of game time we only led inferior teams for less than 5 minutes. Talk about preparation and in game coaching with season on the line. Christopher better be having a heart to heart with Travis at year end.

[Xuperman]

Zach is shooting better from three then Paul and Kunkel this year. Zach isn’t great but he isn’t why they are 13-7 and 6-7. Xavier is 50-198 from three in 7 losses, 25%. If they shoot average like 34% in losses against Marquette, Georgetown and Creighton, they they would be 16-4, 9-4 and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. The problem is that this team has one inside scoring threat when the three doesn’t go down. That’s a recipe for disaster. The poor play is nothing more than a couple of guards not being able to knock down wide open shots. It’s that simple. When shots fall it loosens the team up and Xavier is so tight right now they just choke on the majority of wide open looks.

Coach Steele's fault.

[Masterofreality]

Zach is shooting better from three then Paul and Kunkel this year. Zach isn’t great but he isn’t why they are 13-7 and 6-7. Xavier is 50-198 from three in 7 losses, 25%. If they shoot average like 34% in losses against Marquette, Georgetown and Creighton, they they would be 16-4, 9-4 and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. The problem is that this team has one inside scoring threat when the three doesn’t go down. That’s a recipe for disaster. The poor play is nothing more than a couple of guards not being able to knock down wide open shots. It’s that simple. When shots fall it loosens the team up and Xavier is so tight right now they just choke on the majority of wide open looks.

Zach is shooting worse from 3 than last year 32 vs 35%.
He is also shooting way worse from the free throw line -.59.7% vs 79.5%
That is regression

I’m not going to even discuss why our guards got worse from outside as the season went along, but it has to do with scheme and wasted motion East to West on offense.

[Xuperman]

A have a couple of observations from the last few games:

1. We don't have the size and athleticism we need in the front court, and it's killing us. We can't consistently score in the paint, and our rebounding is severely lacking, particularly from the front court. Unfortunately unless we can score big on a transfer, this probably isn't changing next year, either.

2. We *should* be able to shoot the 3, but we just don't seem to be able to. Even guys like Kunkel and Wilcher who are objectively good shooters can't seen to find the bottom of the net.

When you combine those two deficiencies it's a recipe for disaster that's tough to overcome. If we aren't hitting 3's to open up the offense, we don't have the muscle down low to get it done. We also don't have a single forward with a decent traditional post game.

The shooting might improve next year, although I have no reason to believe it will based on the past few seasons. The lack of muscle in the post is probably not getting fixed next year. It's not like you can just recruit a Freshman who will be a game changing 4/5 from day 1.

Coach Steele's fault.

[Xuperman]

Zach is shooting worse from 3 than last year 32 vs 35%.
He is also shooting way worse from the free throw line -.59.7% vs 79.5%
That is regression

Coach Steele's fault.

[Xavier]

It’s unbelievable how flat X came out the last two games. Just play with the same energy and flow they showed in 2nd half of both games and they would’ve won at least one of those. That’s all X really needed to do, win one game against a team not going to the NCAA tournament. Greg doesn’t need to have a heart to heart, Everyone knows the situation.

Just making the tournament next year can’t be the only way he saves himself. If they are on the bubble again, squeak in and lose first round- he should be gone. Even losing first round is ok if you comfortably are in. Barely getting in and losing isn’t cutting it.

[Xuperman]

And the beef Xavier does have, Steele refuses to play much because it would cut into his boyfriends time. Tandy and griffin rotting the bench is just one of the dumbest decisions I have ever seen in college basketball ever. Sick of steele

Steele has begun to make adjustments that have been suggested here.....he needs to come to this board going forward and game plan using all this expert advice. However, I can not see how the angry mob here would give him ANY credit if said advice results in a L.

Win BIG Coach or expect the torches and pitchfork treatment from your fan base. That's your standard one dimensional way to evaluate a coach.....the simple "band wagon " approach.

How do the coaching experts here explain this-

Butler loses 2 highly successful coaches to the NBA and OSU. Jordan comes in and slowly puts the program into a tail spin.

Marquette does the same, losing 2 coaches to bigger programs. Wojo comes in and goes nowhere.

The storied GTown/StJ programs have nothing to show for in over a decade, with several coaches failing to gain traction.

CU, PC, SHU all have long stint coaches that have produced basically nothing of significance.

There must be a bunch of incompetent Athletic Directors making sh!tty hires in this league.

[drudy23]

Steele has begun to make adjustments that have been suggested here.....he needs to come to this board going forward and game plan using all this expert advice. However, I can not see how the angry mob here would give him ANY credit if said advice results in a L.

Win BIG Coach or expect the torches and pitchfork treatment from your fan base. That's your standard one dimensional way to evaluate a coach.....the simple "band wagon " approach.

How do the coaching experts here explain this-

Butler loses 2 highly successful coaches to the NBA and OSU. Jordan comes in and slowly puts the program into a tail spin.

Marquette does the same, losing 2 coaches to bigger programs. Wojo comes in and goes nowhere.

The storied GTown/StJ programs have nothing to show for in over a decade, with several coaches failing to gain traction.

CU, PC, SHU all have long stint coaches that have produced basically nothing of significance.

There must be a bunch of incompetent Athletic Directors making sh!tty hires in this league.

3 years of the same crap with different players and the same coaching staff.

Yet you’re just like Steele where you refuse to take any accountability in your programs results.

The roster construction is also not good for competing in the Big East. And he’s not recruiting in a way to improve it. We’re gonna get 215 lb 6’10 guys to stand on the 3 point line again because Coach Aluminum has to prove we can be Villanova.

Steele’s fault

[Xville]

Steele has begun to make adjustments that have been suggested here.....he needs to come to this board going forward and game plan using all this expert advice. However, I can not see how the angry mob here would give him ANY credit if said advice results in a L.

Win BIG Coach or expect the torches and pitchfork treatment from your fan base. That's your standard one dimensional way to evaluate a coach.....the simple "band wagon " approach.

How do the coaching experts here explain this-

Butler loses 2 highly successful coaches to the NBA and OSU. Jordan comes in and slowly puts the program into a tail spin.

Marquette does the same, losing 2 coaches to bigger programs. Wojo comes in and goes nowhere.

The storied GTown/StJ programs have nothing to show for in over a decade, with several coaches failing to gain traction.

CU, PC, SHU all have long stint coaches that have produced basically nothing of significance.

There must be a bunch of incompetent Athletic Directors making sh!tty hires in this league.

Win big? No, just make the tournament once out of your first 3 years...that’s a huge drop in expectation from where Xavier was so spare me that bs.

I don’t give a crap what any of the other be programs do...if they want to wallow in mediocrity, good for them. X is and should not ever be that kind of program.

[boozehound]

Coach Steele's fault.

I agree. The coach is the CEO of the team. He is solely and completely responsible for the outcome. We should certainly consider mitigating factors to some degree (i.e. injuries) etc. however when a 3rd year HC doesn't have a front court it's definitely their fault. I don't know who else's fault it would be.

[bleedXblue]

Steele gets next year to show if he's the guy. The very concerning piece that's missing for me is the lack of cohesion and style of play that he should have incorporated by now. On BOTH sides of the ball. The post recruiting has been very suspect as well. If Miles and Ramsey are misses, we are in a heap of trouble and have to rely on a frosh or ANOTHER transfer next year. We need some post players that can bang.

I'm not ready to bail on Steele. We've been down this road before. I really want him to be the guy. Next year is NCAA tourney or I think we need to move on.

[markchal]

So how about this. Final games against Providence, Gtown and Marq. 3 teams you need to beat in order to qualify for NCAA and have much lower Net #s. We never led in the Providence or Gtown game. And we only led 2-0 vs Marq. So in 120 of game time we only led inferior teams for less than 5 minutes. Talk about preparation and in game coaching with season on the line. Christopher better be having a heart to heart with Travis at year end.

This to me is the real problem. We all know this team has deficiencies, big enough that would keep us from making any real run in the tournament. But we've also seen some real talent and some nice performances. The fact that we were so outclassed by mediocre teams with little to play for, in some of the biggest games of Steele's tenure, should be the biggest red flag out there.

[Xuperman]

I agree. The coach is the CEO of the team. He is solely and completely responsible for the outcome. We should certainly consider mitigating factors to some degree (i.e. injuries) etc. however when a 3rd year HC doesn't have a front court it's definitely their fault. I don't know who else's fault it would be.

Stupid Steele. How could he allow Stanley suffer a season ending injury and not play Ramsey regardless of bad knees. And why didn't the fool get Miles on a milk shake and hamburgers diet a long time ago!

[Strange Brew]

Steele has begun to make adjustments that have been suggested here.....he needs to come to this board going forward and game plan using all this expert advice. However, I can not see how the angry mob here would give him ANY credit if said advice results in a L.

Win BIG Coach or expect the torches and pitchfork treatment from your fan base. That's your standard one dimensional way to evaluate a coach.....the simple "band wagon " approach.

How do the coaching experts here explain this-

Butler loses 2 highly successful coaches to the NBA and OSU. Jordan comes in and slowly puts the program into a tail spin.

Marquette does the same, losing 2 coaches to bigger programs. Wojo comes in and goes nowhere.

The storied GTown/StJ programs have nothing to show for in over a decade, with several coaches failing to gain traction.

CU, PC, SHU all have long stint coaches that have produced basically nothing of significance.

There must be a bunch of incompetent Athletic Directors making sh!tty hires in this league.

Ho hum. You’re right. We should all be sooooo lucky to accept Steele’s poor coaching and losing.

[markchal]

Stupid Steele. How could he allow Stanley suffer a season ending injury and not play Ramsey regardless of bad knees. And why didn't the fool get Miles on a milk shake and hamburgers diet a long time ago!

what a loser mentality. We had enough talent to beat Creighton, but can barely be competitive with that same team against two lesser teams in games we needed far more than our opponents??

Every program can go out of their way to surround themselves with what ifs and excuses, that just hasn't been Xavier for the last few decades.

[Xuperman]

I don’t give a crap what any of the other be programs do...if they want to wallow in mediocrity, good for them. X is and should not ever be that kind of program.


Ho hum. You’re right. We should all be sooooo lucky to accept Steele’s poor coaching and losing.

Obviously, you people are going to continue to rail against Steele but how can there be a reasonable debate about the coaching in this league unless the track records of the other coaches are considered? "I don't give a crap"? One would think that those track records would be vital in the context of the discussion.

Nah, shouting down opposing view points is much easier.

[Xville]

Obviously, you people are going to continue to rail against Steele but how can there be a reasonable debate about the coaching in this league unless the track records of the other coaches are considered? "I don't give a crap"? One would think that those track records would be vital in the context of the discussion.

Nah, shouting down opposing view points is much easier.

I don’t even know what point you are trying to prove by mentioning other programs who have mediocre coaches. That x needs to be careful to not stick with mediocre Steele or x could turn into one of them?

[bjf123]

I don’t even know what point you are trying to prove by mentioning other programs who have mediocre coaches. That x needs to be careful to not stick with mediocre Steele or x could turn into one of them?

I think that’s exactly the point. While I’d love to see Steele turn things around and be our coach for the next 20 years, I just don’t see that happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stammina0721]

what a loser mentality. We had enough talent to beat Creighton, but can barely be competitive with that same team against two lesser teams in games we needed far more than our opponents??

Every program can go out of their way to surround themselves with what ifs and excuses, that just hasn't been Xavier for the last few decades.

Funny how people say they were lesser teams. We're losing to Georgetown by a million and never led vs Marquette. Gotta face facts Xavier is the lesser team.

[markchal]

Funny how people say they were lesser teams. We're losing to Georgetown by a million and never led vs Marquette. Gotta face facts Xavier is the lesser team.

Well it’s not that funny if a team has a worse record and is lower in every rankings equation. I think that’s what people mean.

[JTG]

Granted Steele's formula isn't working so well, but for God's sake, we can't hit a 3 to save our lives. There were multiple open 3s last night that didn't fall. If just 2 or 3 fall Steele looks like a genius. He can't go out there and shoot, but he could have Tandy for some sniping early. Also, what is it with us and refs ? That play in the last minute clearly showed the ball went off the Marquette player's elbow, and the refs still reversed the call. One call doesn't make a game, but at a critical juncture it can make a huge difference. And does Graves ever council Steele on the bench? He looks like he's in a coma, sitting there.

[chico]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

[XU 23]

reminds me of this one:


https://youtu.be/NuAKnbIr6TE

[drudy23]

If we were getting open looks and no one is making them, why isn't Tandy in the game? Serious question with no logical explanation.

[xavierj]

If we were getting open looks and no one is making them, why isn't Tandy in the game? Serious question with no logical explanation.

I guess he doesn’t have enough practice points. That’s apparently more important than putting your best team on the floor and winning games.

[drudy23]

I guess he doesn’t have enough practice points. That’s apparently more important than putting your best team on the floor and winning games.

The only other player on the roster that can play with a better 3 point shooting percentage is Wicher, with half as many shots. He's arguably our best shooter.

He's literally our current first or second option to make a three and he played 6 minutes in a game everyone seems to agree where we got plenty of open looks. This was after a game he almost single-handedly brought us back from a 15 point deficit with his shooting and play-making.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask Coach Aluminum the obvious questions?

He played 6 minutes. 6 freaking minutes.

[xuphan]

I guess he doesn’t have enough practice points. That’s apparently more important than putting your best team on the floor and winning games.

Can you save practice points and use them at a later date? Maybe he is saving his practice points for the Big East Tournament.

[xavierj]

The only other player on the roster that can play with a better 3 point shooting percentage is Wicher, with half as many shots. He's arguably our best shooter.

He's literally our current first or second option to make a three and he played 6 minutes in a game everyone seems to agree where we got plenty of open looks. This was after a game he almost single-handedly brought us back from a 15 point deficit with his shooting and play-making.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask Coach Aluminum the obvious questions?

He played 6 minutes. 6 freaking minutes.

And he also had a positive offensive and defensive rating in those 6 minutes. Also have no idea why Travis didn’t try any zone last night. Marquette was not hot from 3 but were bullying Xavier getting to the rim. 28% on threes and 60% on twos, yet didn’t change the defense. That’s a head scratcher.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Granted Steele's formula isn't working so well, but for God's sake, we can't hit a 3 to save our lives. There were multiple open 3s last night that didn't fall. If just 2 or 3 fall Steele looks like a genius. He can't go out there and shoot, but he could have Tandy for some sniping early. Also, what is it with us and refs ? That play in the last minute clearly showed the ball went off the Marquette player's elbow, and the refs still reversed the call. One call doesn't make a game, but at a critical juncture it can make a huge difference. And does Graves ever council Steele on the bench? He looks like he's in a coma, sitting there.

I have several issues with Steele right now after being a defender of his. I still think he deserves another year and see what happens but here are my issues:

1. Regarding the three point issues. The 2nd and 3rd best 3 point % leaders on our team went through the meat of the schedule barely playing, on a team that struggles to hit shots. This wasnt just bc Nate was around and they couldnt get minutes. Steele acknowledged this somewhat by changing his lineups, but he couldnt stick with his guns. I dont want to harp on Carter but does anyone think if he doesnt get in foul trouble he wouldnt have ended up playing over 20 mins?

2. His March record. 4-8 in three years so far. I got into a debate with banners account on twitter where they challenged my assertion that Steele's teams werent better in March than December. He said last year from Feb on they were the best defense in the country etc. I know the first year they were better in Dec than March. But no matter how you split it 4-8 in March. and the last 2 years to end the season 1-5 in essentially must win games to get a tourney spot. I get we have the BE tourney, I have my hopes up.

3. His rotations. He has seemed to me to struggle greatly figuring out who should play when and with who else. I get this was his first year with legitimate depth but to still be working on this and not having it figured out in March is a failure to me.

4. His teams coming out flat to start games, especially it seems must win games. Why does it take so long to get going. Why do we not get the play of the furious comebacks in the second half in the first half?

Those are the issues I can think of off the top of my head at the moment.

[drudy23]

The last few years we've heard and seen:

* "This is the best defensive unit we've ever had at Xavier" - turned out to be one of the worst
* "I'm not worried about offense" - on a team that struggles to score
* "We've got to be our best in March" - we know what's happened here

You can be wrong, but his assessments on things have been dramatically off the mark. So off-base that you wonder what this dude is thinking.

[xavierj]

The last few years we've heard and seen:

* "This is the best defensive unit we've ever had at Xavier" - turned out to be one of the worst
* "I'm not worried about offense" - on a team that struggles to score
* "We've got to be our best in March" - we know what's happened here

You can be wrong, but his assessments on things have been dramatically off the mark. So off-base that you wonder what this dude is thinking.

Actually last year Xavier finished 19th in the country in defense which was the highest they have ever finished I believe.

[drudy23]

Actually last year Xavier finished 19th in the country in defense which was the highest they have ever finished I believe.

He said it about the team 2 years ago.

He was waaaaaaaaaaay off (253rd). How can you be that off? He said it will be the best defensive team ever and it finished 253rd. Executives that far off get laughed out of their jobs.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/xu-coach-steele-i-think-this-can-be-the-best-defensive-team-in-xavier-history-

He also said “First time I met with the guys in the locker room, I told them I’m going to be the same guy I’ve always been,” said Steele, who spent nine seasons as a Xavier assistant. “There wasn’t as big an adjustment as much as I thought there would be.”

Hmm...well Coach Aluminum, there probably should have been. The Big Seat should be much, much different.

[xavierj]

He said it about the team 2 years ago.

Gotcha. I believe that year it was good from February on but started off pretty bad. It’s how they made a late run. Saw something today that the last month of the season two years ago Xavier was the best defensive team in the big east and last year from February on they were the best in the nation until Paul got hurt. The problem has been for three years though that they can’t make shots.

[drudy23]

Gotcha. I believe that year it was good from February on but started off pretty bad. It’s how they made a late run. Saw something today that the last month of the season two years ago Xavier was the best defensive team in the big east and last year from February on they were the best in the nation until Paul got hurt. The problem has been for three years though that they can’t make shots.

He also said that "were bringing in shooters, we have to get guys in here that can make shots, man"

Literally, most of reality has contradicted his evaluations, man.

[IM4X]

The post recruiting has been very suspect as well. If Miles and Ramsey are misses, we are in a heap of trouble and have to rely on a frosh or ANOTHER transfer next year. We need some post players that can bang.

Let’s see... Neither has had any significant minutes this year (and no minutes at all lately). Hard to see how the team will not be in a heap of trouble next year. Neither incoming freshman is know as being bangers either. We need the next Tyrique or Hankins or Farr or Jalen or O’Mara. We have no one even close at the moment.

While Zach was definitely a good pick up, it was obvious (at least to someone like me who saw him in person during his high school days) he was not going to be a force on defense like some of the others mentioned. He can and will likely get better on defense with the right coaching, but he was not recruited for his dominance on D. He was always more of a prototypical stretch four who was forced to play a little differently since there is literally no other legit BE level forward/center on the roster. Let’s think about that for a second. We have no legit BE big on the roster other than Free.

Griffin is the best current option, but even he is a little thinner and shorter than other centers/forward he goes up against. It is killing this team that a 6’10+ big body BE level banger is not available to play. Steele boasted numerous times about how good Miles was going to be. “Just wait” Yet, we continue to witness a player who barely sees the court. Either Steele can’t recognize raw talent or he simply hasn’t yet figured out how to develop it.

[Xuperman]

Steele boasted numerous times about how good Miles was going to be. “Just wait” Yet, we continue to witness a player who barely sees the court. Either Steele can’t recognize raw talent or he simply hasn’t yet figured out how to develop it.

Or "wait" literally means wait. The kid has been a rough 3 star project from the get.....no surprise here. He's only 19, so let the S&C team do their thing and get a Jason Love when all is said and done.

[Xavier]

He also said that "were bringing in shooters, we have to get guys in here that can make shots, man"

Literally, most of reality has contradicted his evaluations, man.

Yeah, just forget about the guy who was the top 3 point shooter in the country for most of the year.

[throwbackmuskie]

I was good with the hire, but will say next year is make or break IMO. I think we have relied too much on transfers to build a roster. Some have been good pieces, but I also wonder if it stunted some of the growth of the recruits.

[drudy23]

Yeah, just forget about the guy who was the top 3 point shooter in the country for most of the year.

T

[paulxu]

T

More coffee Drudy :)

[GoMuskies]

I was good with the hire, but will say next year is make or break IMO.

I think this is the bottom line. We're going to continue to have 100 posts a day talking about/debating it (and we should, because this is a messageboard and what the hell else are we going to talk about?), but it really comes down to this. Steele can pull a rabbit out of his hat and somehow get this team into the tournament, he can have a good team that makes the tournament next year, or he can say goodbye.

[bleedXblue]

I think the point around Steele trying to make us into the next Nova is a really interesting one. I can certainly see why he would want us to play that style, but can you recruit into this and execute? Moving away from what X has been successful in doing for 30+ years and implementing a hole new style of play could be his downfall.

[Xavier]

Free is a double double leader because of A) the minutes he plays, B) EVERYTHING runs through him.
It’s easy to get 10 rebounds when no one else-.especially Carter- does it. That’s just statistics
And Kunkel has regressed too.

Freemantle named Big East most improved player today.

[drudy23]

I think the point around Steele trying to make us into the next Nova is a really interesting one. I can certainly see why he would want us to play that style, but can you recruit into this and execute? Moving away from what X has been successful in doing for 30+ years and implementing a hole new style of play could be his downfall.

Agreed. In order to do what Nova is doing you need NBA caliber wings. They have the recruiting chops to get those guys. Xavier would have to develop more of these guys.

The biggest problem I see is that we're getting versatile players (like Jones), which is good, but none are really big enough to pound down low. Steele's recruiting profile has been shooters and big guys that can step out. That's fine as long as you continue to bring in a banger every year to allow for these smaller 4s to operate that are ok on the wing and ok in the block, but not great at either.

I'd rather stick to really good guards and really good big guys. It just makes for a more balanced attack.

[boozehound]

Agreed. In order to do what Nova is doing you need NBA caliber wings. They have the recruiting chops to get those guys. Xavier would have to develop more of these guys.

The biggest problem I see is that we're getting versatile players (like Jones), which is good, but none are really big enough to pound down low. Steele's recruiting profile has been shooters and big guys that can step out. That's fine as long as you continue to bring in a banger every year to allow for these smaller 4s to operate that are ok on the wing and ok in the block, but not great at either.

I'd rather stick to really good guards and really good big guys. It just makes for a more balanced attack.

And even with all of Nova's talent, for a while there they were kind of known for getting 1-2 seeds and failing to make it out of the first weekend. In fact, since 2014 Nova has had 2 National Championships and 4 early exits including two as a #1 seed and one as a #2 seed. It's been a bit feast or famine for them as far as NCAA tournament success is concerned, which I think highlights some of the risks with that style of play. When it goes well, it goes really well (see our Oklahoma and Creighton games), however when it goes off the rails it can get very ugly.

[Xavier]

The biggest problem I see is that we're getting versatile players (like Jones), which is good, but none are really big enough to pound down low. Steele's recruiting profile has been shooters and big guys that can step out. That's fine as long as you continue to bring in a banger every year to allow for these smaller 4s to operate that are ok on the wing and ok in the block, but not great at either.

I'd rather stick to really good guards and really good big guys. It just makes for a more balanced attack.

I agree. Overall I kind of like the type of players he is bringing in. I just think its all the same type of player, at least thats what I have heard in terms of recruiting profiles for next season.

[Xavier]

And even with all of Nova's talent, for a while there they were kind of known for getting 1-2 seeds and failing to make it out of the first weekend. In fact, since 2014 Nova has had 2 National Championships and 4 early exits including two as a #1 seed and one as a #2 seed. It's been a bit feast or famine for them as far as NCAA tournament success is concerned, which I think highlights some of the risks with that style of play. When it goes well, it goes really well (see our Oklahoma and Creighton games), however when it goes off the rails it can get very ugly.

I mean I think Nova is widely regarded as the top, or at least top 3, program in the last 10 seasons.

[BandAid]

In a way, Steele isn’t wrong. Basketball, starting from the NBA down, is rapidly transitioning away from traditional bigs. Former all-stars like Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin have seen shrinking roles in the NBA.

The key word though is “transitioning.” Our roster as it currently sits has zero healthy traditional bigs (or athletic rim protectors). This leaves a gaping hole in the middle for teams with traditional bigs to exploit.

Did Steele jump the shark in transitioning too quickly? Or is it moot because Stanley, Miles, or Ramsey would be filling the role if healthy?

Either way, there’s an enormous hole. Our defense double teams even mediocre bigs, and that can then be exploited with kick outs to 3-point shooters. And our offense quickly stagnates if the perimeter game isn’t working - which seems to happen often.

It needs to be fixed somehow. I hope Steele is the guy to do it, but I don’t have much confidence at the current moment.

[IM4X]

Or "wait" literally means wait. The kid has been a rough 3 star project from the get.....no surprise here. He's only 19, so let the S&C team do their thing and get a Jason Love when all is said and done.

So he got a redshirt his first season, supposedly to give him time to practice with the team and develop his skills and bulk up. Now in his second season, he at least should be developed enough to be playing more than he is. He has been in 8 games. In contrast Jason Love played in 19 games his first year and 37 games his second year with the team. So Love was getting more “love” (see what I did there) from his coach who made sure he got a little playing time in most games to give him more real Big East game experience.

Now one can argue there are few conference games this season. That is true. Yet, at the same time, it is unlikely that Miles would have been put into many (if any) of those cancelled BE games based on how little he has seen the floor during the BE games X actually played.

And yes, Miles had some minor injures that technically kept him from potentially playing, but was he ever going to get the nod in those games- not likely.

We need to see significant progress from bigs other than Free on the roster now or make sure we pick up one or two who are ready to play at a BE level from the get- go for next season. We can’t wait around for Miles to “potentially be great” his redshirt senior year- we need highly skilled players now and I don’t see the two freshman coming in as the calvary we can count on to save the day next year.

My concern now - which was a huge concern I had brought up last year - is that we l have no proven bigs who are stoppers on defense. It was so obvious we needed at least one big (6’10 and with bulk) good enough to play at least 15 minutes a game. Someone who would make opponents more hesitant about dribbling in the lane. Because the coaches did not do that and instead went for the small forward transfers from lesser programs we ended up with decent subs but no BE level starter opposite Free to play Forward/Center. Free is not a great stopper - but right now he is the only big (other than Griffin) who can potentially help fix the current Swiss cheese defense.

[drudy23]

In a way, Steele isn’t wrong. Basketball, starting from the NBA down, is rapidly transitioning away from traditional bigs. Former all-stars like Andre Drummond and Blake Griffin have seen shrinking roles in the NBA.

The key word though is “transitioning.” Our roster as it currently sits has zero healthy traditional bigs (or athletic rim protectors). This leaves a gaping hole in the middle for teams with traditional bigs to exploit.

Did Steele jump the shark in transitioning too quickly? Or is it moot because Stanley, Miles, or Ramsey would be filling the role if healthy?

Either way, there’s an enormous hole. Our defense double teams even mediocre bigs, and that can then be exploited with kick outs to 3-point shooters. And our offense quickly stagnates if the perimeter game isn’t working - which seems to happen often.

It needs to be fixed somehow. I hope Steele is the guy to do it, but I don’t have much confidence at the current moment.

I don't think you can make a comparison to the NBA - it's a different game. Those teams have so much more flexibility because the talent is so damn good.

The vast majority of college programs will never get enough talented wings to run this style consistently. So you have to have more balance.

I think it's safe to say the offense has been pretty much a train-wreck for 3 years besides the first half of this year. I thought we were on to something early in the year, but it became obvious that defenses adjusted to it, especially in conference, and we didn't have enough athleticism to overcome it.

[Masterofreality]

Freemantle named Big East most improved player today.

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

[AviatorX]

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

Yeah, should probably just ignore a gigantic leap in role and averaging 16 and 9 on 55% effective field goal percentage. Also, had he made three more threes to this point he would have beat last year's percentage. Not some precipitous drop off. Freemantle has some definite areas to improve if this program is ever going anywhere significant on his back, but he's only a sophomore and his jump from year 1 to year 2 was very impressive unless you're a moron.

[drudy23]

Yeah, should probably just ignore a gigantic leap in role and averaging 16 and 9 on 55% effective field goal percentage. Also, had he made three more threes to this point he would have beat last year's percentage. Not some precipitous drop off. Freemantle has some definite areas to improve if this program is ever going anywhere significant on his back, but he's only a sophomore and his jump from year 1 to year 2 was very impressive unless you're a moron.

My feeling on Freemantle is that he's been a victim of Steele's poor roster construction.

He's definitely improved, but it kinda doesn't feel like it. But I don't put that on him.

His defense is still not very good, but he's also having to guard guys bigger than him pretty much every time out.

[xukeith]

My feeling on Freemantle is that he's been a victim of Steele's poor roster construction.

He's definitely improved, but it kinda doesn't feel like it. But I don't put that on him.

His defense is still not very good, but he's also having to guard guys bigger than him pretty much every time out.

It doesn't "feel" like he improved from last year? What does feelings have to do with rebounding at a high rate and scoring a ton more?

Maybe when X loses another game, we can "feel" like they won. Or when X wins a game you can "feel" like we didn't win.

[AviatorX]

My feeling on Freemantle is that he's been a victim of Steele's poor roster construction.

He's definitely improved, but it kinda doesn't feel like it. But I don't put that on him.

His defense is still not very good, but he's also having to guard guys bigger than him pretty much every time out.

I definitely see where you're coming from on this. I think reality is somewhere in the middle. Freemantle absolutely needs to get stronger and be willing to be more of a banger, but he also shouldn't be expected to guard guys like Nate Watson for 40 minutes (with the only other option being a total non-contributor).

I don't think it's fair to expect Freemantle to be a bruising 5. But he definitely needs to be more serviceable in that role from time to time. Any team he's the best player on will have an extremely high ceiling if you can surround him with shooters and go small with him at the 5 for stretches (i.e., when X looked best this season).

[JTG]

Agreed. In order to do what Nova is doing you need NBA caliber wings. They have the recruiting chops to get those guys. Xavier would have to develop more of these guys.

The biggest problem I see is that we're getting versatile players (like Jones), which is good, but none are really big enough to pound down low. Steele's recruiting profile has been shooters and big guys that can step out. That's fine as long as you continue to bring in a banger every year to allow for these smaller 4s to operate that are ok on the wing and ok in the block, but not great at either.

I'd rather stick to really good guards and really good big guys. It just makes for a more balanced attack.

I'd say get 1 banger every year, or at least 1 every other year. A rim protector rebounder is a necessity in the Big East.

[94GRAD]

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

Zach just averaged 16.3 and 9 against Big East competition as a Sophomore.

Derek Strong 15.3 and 8, T. Hill 15.3 and 10.5, and B. Hill 11.8 and 9.1 as Sophomores in the MCC
DFW 17.8 and 10.9 in the A10.

Keep telling yourself what you need to justify him not winning the most improved player in the B.E.

[94GRAD]

Zach just averaged 16.3 and 9 against Big East competition as a Sophomore.

Derek Strong 15.3 and 8, T. Hill 15.3 and 10.5, and B. Hill 11.8 and 9.1 as Sophomores in the MCC
DFW 17.8 and 10.9 in the A10.

Keep telling yourself what you need to justify him not winning the most improved player in the B.E.

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-East-Conference/59/stats/2021/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/trb/desc/1/


He LEAD THE LEAGUE in rebounding and was 5th in points, please keep telling yourself he didn't deserve the most improved player!!!!!

[xavierj]

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

Man you really have it out for this club. Can’t you just be happy for the kid? I mean the coaches who have to game plan for him picked him. Don’t be so miserable. Happy for Zach. Hopefully he improves on his deficiencies so he can meet your expert standards and be that perfect player.

[Xavier]

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

He is averaging 9 more points a game, 5th total in Big East
He is averaging 5 more rebounds a game, 1st in the big east
He is averaging 11 more minutes a game.

The numbers show he is certainly producing more than last year, at least.

[muskieindent]

[QUOTE=UCGRAD4X;697001]They obviously thought enough of him to bring him to the ACC. Who do you think would hire Travis at this point?[/QUOTE
Skip was a great guy and recruiter but I think he was at the bottom of the coaches we've had in the last 40 years. Feel like Travis is the same way but in a harder conference. I do feel like the program could be teetering over this next year.
Freemantle is the best player on the team.Not perfect but he's also only a sophomore. Just can't play him at the 5 position.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think with Free the concern is mainly with his defense, and that is not really his fault because what he is expected to do defensively is really not a strong skill set for him.

On offense, sure he has improved. I would be interested in his FG%s, efficiency, value added or whatever those numbers are. Maybe he should have improved more or even more production now that the offense is flowing through him (or is meant to). I know this sounds a little bit ridiculous, but just playing devils advocate in an attempt to reconcile the 'eye test' and the numbers.

[UCGRAD4X]

Just to be clear, I'm not down on ZFree. He is one of the least of our worries.

[chico]

Worse 3 point shooting, way worse free throws percentage. Rebounds better only because Tyrique is no longer here.
Makes no sense by the numbers and eye test

I thought he had regressed this year but then looked at the numbers and he really hasn't. The only place he's worse is in 3 point shooting - in Big East play he's shooting 25% this year (32% overall). Rebounding much better, overall shooting percentage is over 50% (45% in the BE). He does need to work on defense - the high screen is a killer but it's seemed like the past few years that's been an issue as a team.

I think maybe we expected too much of him - he's not a 5 but because of injuries/roster issues he's been asked to play there.

As for Steele, I think he gets one more year to right the ship. As others have said, next year it will be all his guys and there won't be any excuses.

[Xville]

Yeah of all the problems with this team and program, free doesn’t come close to making the list. Is he perfect? Of course not... he needs to hit the weight room big time and needs to go after defenders more than trying to avoid them.

He’s playing out of position and frankly his skill set due to Steele’s ineptitude when it comes to balancing out a roster and lineup management. Free should be the stretch four, but he can’t be due to the roster.

Anyhow, I hope that Stanley and Tandy come back, miles turns into a solid contributor next year and I hope that somehow the team figures out a way to win two games this week and sneak into the tourney. That would go a very long way in getting out of this stalled car that is the Xavier program currently.

[drudy23]

There were a couple games this year where Free had 25+ points and 10+ rebounds and I thought he played terrible. It was those games where we chucked up 35-40 3s each game.

But as others have said, he's the least of our problems.

[muskieindent]

There were a couple games this year where Free had 25+ points and 10+ rebounds and I thought he played terrible. It was those games where we chucked up 35-40 3s each game.

But as others have said, he's the least of our problems.
Freemantle just named most improved player in BE.
btw Steele's father in law is on the board of directors at Xavier. Not sure if that means anything but I thought that was curious.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Freemantle just named most improved player in BE.
btw Steele's father in law is on the board of directors at Xavier. Not sure if that means anything but I thought that was curious.

He is also one of the biggest donors right? you wonder how, if at all, that plays into what kind of leash Steele gets.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Yeah of all the problems with this team and program, free doesn’t come close to making the list. Is he perfect? Of course not... he needs to hit the weight room big time and needs to go after defenders more than trying to avoid them.

He’s playing out of position and frankly his skill set due to Steele’s ineptitude when it comes to balancing out a roster and lineup management. Free should be the stretch four, but he can’t be due to the roster.

Anyhow, I hope that Stanley and Tandy come back, miles turns into a solid contributor next year and I hope that somehow the team figures out a way to win two games this week and sneak into the tourney. That would go a very long way in getting out of this stalled car that is the Xavier program currently.

Freemantle is not a stretch 4. If you think his defense is bad against big guys, go ask him to try to guard small ball 4s. He would look like a traffic cone out there with guys blowing right past him. You could get away with him at the 4 against select teams like Providence and Gtown who's coaches still think it's the 1990s and play two bigs. But we actually played our best against Gtown when we went small and made them match our small lineup.

Against the vast majority of the country in today's game Freemantle is a 5.

[drudy23]

Freemantle is not a stretch 4. If you think his defense is bad against big guys, go ask him to try to guard small ball 4s. He would look like a traffic cone out there with guys blowing right past him. You could get away with him at the 4 against select teams like Providence and Gtown who's coaches still think it's the 1990s and play two bigs. But we actually played our best against Gtown when we went small and made them match our small lineup.

Against the vast majority of the country in today's game Freemantle is a 5.

EDIT - Freemantle is STEELE'S version of a stretch 4.

Steele also thinks he's Jay Wright, but with cheaper suits and several inches in height.

[94GRAD]

EDIT - Freemantle is STEELE'S version of a stretch 4.

Steele also thinks he's Jay Wright, but with cheaper suits and several inches in height.

Heaven forbid Travis aspires to be as good a coach as Jay.

[drudy23]

Heaven forbid Travis aspires to be as good a coach as Jay.

Want to be as successful as Jay - Fine. Great. Wonderful.

Try to emulate his style and system without the right pieces and personnel - recipe for where we are now.

Decisions matter - and he's accountable to them.

[bobbiemcgee]

Want to be as successful as Jay - Fine. Great. Wonderful.

I'd settle for being as great as the 23-1 Kelsey.

[bleedXblue]

I'd settle for being as great as the 23-1 Kelsey.

He's gonna get some calls this off season and make some big $$$....if he wants to move....

[xavierj]

I'd settle for being as great as the 23-1 Kelsey.

So you want to drop down and dominate a crap league? Been there done that. Good for Pat. Hope he retires at Winthrop. Good spot for him.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah, should probably just ignore a gigantic leap in role and averaging 16 and 9 on 55% effective field goal percentage. Also, had he made three more threes to this point he would have beat last year's percentage. Not some precipitous drop off. Freemantle has some definite areas to improve if this program is ever going anywhere significant on his back, but he's only a sophomore and his jump from year 1 to year 2 was very impressive unless you're a moron.

Ok, just stop with your pollyannish Steele defense, your if, if, ifs and your attempted shots at me. I love ZFree, but...

Free is not the “Most Improved Player” in the Big East by numbers. Julian Champagnie is.
2020 2021
Champagnie: Points per: 9.9. 19.9
3 point %. 31.2. 38.7
Rebounds per 6.5. 7.3
Free throw % 75.4. 88.7
Freemantle. Points per: 7.5. 16.3
3 point %. 35.3. 32.0
Rebounds per. 4.3. 9.0
Free throw % 78.9. 59.7
Oh, and Julian led his team to a bye in the Big East Tournament.
It’s not Free’s fault that he didn’t but......

No comparison. And Free’s rebounds are up because no body else does it. Who is the moron?

[bobbiemcgee]

He's gonna get some calls this off season and make some big $$$....if he wants to move....

yep

[Masterofreality]

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Big-East-Conference/59/stats/2021/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/trb/desc/1/


He LEAD THE LEAGUE in rebounding and was 5th in points, please keep telling yourself he didn't deserve the most improved player!!!!!

Julian Champagnie

[Masterofreality]

Man you really have it out for this club. Can’t you just be happy for the kid? I mean the coaches who have to game plan for him picked him. Don’t be so miserable. Happy for Zach. Hopefully he improves on his deficiencies so he can meet your expert standards and be that perfect player.

I love Free but he is not Most Improved Player. Period
The Coaches did a political thing to allow Zach to share it. Champagnie is the true Most Improved Player.
It’s reality.

[drudy23]

Why does everything always seem to come back to Kelsey?

And yes, if he's going to leave, this is the year for him to leave.

[AviatorX]

Ok, just stop with your pollyannish Steele defense, your if, if, ifs and your attempted shots at me. I love ZFree, but...

Free is not the “Most Improved Player” in the Big East by numbers. Julian Champagnie is.
2020 2021
Champagnie: Points per: 9.9. 19.9
3 point %. 31.2. 38.7
Rebounds per 6.5. 7.3
Free throw % 75.4. 88.7
Freemantle. Points per: 7.5. 16.3
3 point %. 35.3. 32.0
Rebounds per. 4.3. 9.0
Free throw % 78.9. 59.7
Oh, and Julian led his team to a bye in the Big East Tournament.
It’s not Free’s fault that he didn’t but......

No comparison. And Free’s rebounds are up because no body else does it. Who is the moron?

Trust me (and the majority of the board on this one): you.

Am I supposed to believe you're actually just defending Champagnie's entitlement to most improved in addition to first team? Somehow managed to not use his name once in your original post. Obviously the league is going to spread the love on these meaningless awards. I do look forward to your treatise on why the first team shouldn't have 6 players on it since you are so concerned about the integrity of these post-season awards.

[Masterofreality]

Trust me (and the majority of the board on this one): you.

Am I supposed to believe you're actually just defending Champagnie's entitlement to most improved in addition to first team? Obviously the league is going to spread the love on these meaningless awards. I do look forward to your treatise on why the first team shouldn't have 6 players on it since you are so concerned about the integrity of these post-season awards.

I don’t give a crap about the award. Reality states that Champagnie is the Most Improved Player, Mr Analytics. Period. My original post was answering another guy who took a shot and gave facts.
And you do know that they shared the award right, so Julian was “entitled” anyway

[XU 87]

I come to this board to primarily discuss Xavier basketball (and global warming). But now it seems that the only discussion is complaining about everything Steele, or in this current case, complaining that a Xavier player actually WON an award.

So what's next? Are we headed toward discussions complaining about Xavier winning? "We didn't beat the point spread!!" Or maybe- "Why didn't Steele play the walk-ons in the last minute!!"

[Xavier]

Yeah it’s definitely toxic environment.
“Freemantle has regressed under Steele”
“He won most improved player?”
“I don’t care what the coaches say and numbers say, he has regressed in my eyes”

It’s weird, if all our freshman make the jump that Freemantle did between freshman and sophomore year- we will be in really good shape IMO

[Strange Brew]

I come to this board to primarily discuss Xavier basketball (and global warming). But now it seems that the only discussion is complaining about everything Steele, or in this current case, complaining that a Xavier player actually WON an award.

So what's next? Are we headed toward discussions complaining about Xavier winning? "We didn't beat the point spread!!" Or maybe- "Why didn't Steele play the walk-ons in the last minute!!"

Walk ons aren’t getting any run because Steele’s rotations and Free’s lack of development keep X from beating the spread much less winning big late in games.

I think that covers it?

Don’t we have a tourememt to win this week? Let’s go X!

[xuphan]

Is this a joke?

This post didn’t age well.

[Strange Brew]

This post didn’t age well.

Joke or not. TS is the coach and I don’t want to see Scruggs go out like this. 4 games. Get in and wreak havoc!

[XU 87]

Zach is shooting worse from 3 than last year 32 vs 35%.
He is also shooting way worse from the free throw line -.59.7% vs 79.5%
That is regression

I’m not going to even discuss why our guards got worse from outside as the season went along, but it has to do with scheme and wasted motion East to West on offense.

Ohhhhhhhh, so now I know why you're arguing so much about Zach winning Most Improved Player. Honestly- this comes across as you'd rather be right than X or its players have success. I'm not saying that's how you really feel- just how this all appears.

Personally, I think you've been too good of a fan in the past for you to think that way. But some of your posts makes one wonder differently.

[IM4X]

Let’s remember Free is just a Sophomore.

Aside from his decline in shooting % from the line, Free has indeed taken a huge leap forward. Think of what little help he has had in the post. I can’t remember an X team where there has been such a drop off between the first and second best forward. He is only a Sophomore and yet he is thrust into a position of having to be the only significant option on offense and the best option to defend in the post.

Let’s remember how other talented big men at X like Tyrique, O’Mara and Farr played as Sophomores... and to think they had other veterans around them who were pulling most of the weight. Frankly, I would be a little pissed if I were Free that there is currently no another big on the roster at his similar level who could help take some pressure off of him.

Congrats to Zach! This former X grad and current Bergen County resident is proud of your accomplishment.

[Masterofreality]

Ohhhhhhhh, so now I know why you're arguing so much about Zach winning Most Improved Player. Honestly- this comes across as you'd rather be right than X or its players have success. I'm not saying that's how you really feel- just how this all appears.

Personally, I think you've been too good of a fan in the past for you to think that way. But some of your posts makes one wonder differently.

Nope. Because objectively based on numbers he was not the most improved player. Based on facts and performance. Did he marginally improve? Yes. Did I say earlier in this thread that I love Free? Also yes. But declining in two very important categories shouldn’t qualify you for an award. That is evidence counselor. Not just speculation.
And to be clear, Free did not outright Win the award. He shared it with Champagnie- who was rightfully there based on ALL performance categories. Champagnie was also selected to the First Team all league so, yes, he was “entitled” to and given both awards.
Facts matter.

[Strange Brew]

This is Conf Tourney week. This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let’s not worry about who killed who.

I understand movie references aren’t going to make anyone pumped up to to watch X win this thing but the boys have air in their lungs and a job to do and I want to see it (yes, it is all about me). I’m looking forward to Carter hitting a buzzer beater against whomever he faces in the Finals just to rub my face in it sooooo damn deep that I taste it until November.

[DART87]

Nope. Because objectively based on numbers he was not the most improved player. Based on facts and performance. Did he marginally improve? Yes. Did I say earlier in this thread that I love Free? Also yes. But declining in two very important categories shouldn’t qualify you for an award. That is evidence counselor. Not just speculation.
And to be clear, Free did not outright Win the award. He shared it with Champagnie- who was rightfully there based on ALL performance categories. Champagnie was also selected to the First Team all league so, yes, he was “entitled” to and given both awards.
Facts matter.

So Master of Absurdity knows better than the coaches voting on the award? Very few if any members of this message board had a vote in this. It was not a pollyanna group of Xavier fans that recognized Zack's improvement over last year.

Let's celebrate the honor as fans rather than criticize the Xavier player's performance.

[Strange Brew]

So Master of Absurdity knows better than the coaches voting on the award? Very few if any members of this message board had a vote in this. It was not a pollyanna group of Xavier fans that recognized Zack's improvement over last year.

Let's celebrate the honor as fans rather than criticize the Xavier player's performance.

Hell yes Dart!

Well done Free. Now go make the All Tourney team!

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=DART87;697311]So Master of Absurdity knows better than the coaches voting on the award? Very few if any members of this message board had a vote in this. It was not a pollyanna group of Xavier fans that recognized Zack's improvement over last year.

Let's celebrate the honor as fans rather than criticize the Xavier player's performance.

Exactly. Zach had a great sophomore year. Glad he is part of the Xavier program. Look forward to continued improvement from the kid. Here’s hoping he and the team pulls together and wrecks havoc this week in New York. They are capable of putting it together if the shots start falling.

[xavierj]

Nope. Because objectively based on numbers he was not the most improved player. Based on facts and performance. Did he marginally improve? Yes. Did I say earlier in this thread that I love Free? Also yes. But declining in two very important categories shouldn’t qualify you for an award. That is evidence counselor. Not just speculation.
And to be clear, Free did not outright Win the award. He shared it with Champagnie- who was rightfully there based on ALL performance categories. Champagnie was also selected to the First Team all league so, yes, he was “entitled” to and given both awards.
Facts matter.

Have you submitted your application to coach Xavier yet? You should they would be awesome. Then you would have a say in who wins these awards as well.

[boozehound]

So Master of Absurdity knows better than the coaches voting on the award? Very few if any members of this message board had a vote in this. It was not a pollyanna group of Xavier fans that recognized Zack's improvement over last year.

Let's celebrate the honor as fans rather than criticize the Xavier player's performance.

LOL. This one is definitely in the hall of fame for bizarre and absurd arguments. I'm really not sure why the deep commitment to denigrating Freemantle for winning a share of the 'most improved player' award, but whatever I guess.

[Strange Brew]

This board needs a new villain....

[bleedXblue]

LOL.......This ought to get really good. Going and getting my popcorn. Cant wait to see this one play out.

[Xavier]

Nope. Because objectively based on numbers he was not the most improved player. Based on facts and performance. Did he marginally improve? Yes.

I don’t care if he was most improved. You said he regressed under Steele, now you say he improved.

[xavierj]

This board needs a new villain....

I agree. This is getting crazy.

[noteggs]

I agree. This is getting crazy.

Not taking sides here, but almost makes the political thread seem rational.

[xu82]

Not taking sides here, but almost makes the political thread seem rational.

Great times, great times.......

[D-West & PO-Z]

MOR, of all things to be riled up about this seems like a weird one.

I'm all for debating Steele's ability and his areas for improvement.

Arguing Free didnt deserve and award the BE coaches voted on? Is that somehow a way to criticize Steele? I really dont get it.

[Masterofreality]

I don’t care if he was most improved. You said he regressed under Steele, now you say he improved.

Free throw shooting. Regressed. Three point shooting. Regressed. Turnover rate. Regressed. All facts.
Points, increased. Rebounds increased. But his minutes/useage to create those numbers are also way up.
A) He’s playing 11 more minutes a game, B) His useage rate has been increased by almost 7%
But his Offensive Rating has dropped by 2.5 points and his Net Rating has dropped by 3.4 points from 13.6 to 10.2.

Look. I’m not trying to disrespect Free. But the fact is that in a true comparison between he and Champagnie, who’s stats and ratings across every category have gone up this season, Champagnie wins as Most Improved player.

And, as I said numerous times, I love Free, but there are areas where he HAS regressed, but I don’t blame him totally either. I believe he’s been thrown into a role by Steele that is a bit too burdensome for a Sophomore. You can argue that it happened out of necessity because of injuries to others or other factors, and I’ll listen to that argument. The Steele strategy certainly has not helped the team record whereas Mike Anderson’s strategy with Julian, has.

Bottom line. In overall play, Free has “marginally” improved, but there is important regression in critical categories.
By all measures and metrics in matter of fact, Champagnie is the leagues Most Improved Player. I’m glad Free got some recognition, but it just feels like Xavier got thrown a bone by the league. As we all know in life, awards don’t always reflect what’s real.

[xavierj]

Free throw shooting. Regressed. Three point shooting. Regressed. Turnover rate. Regressed. All facts.
Points, increased. Rebounds increased. But his minutes/useage to create those numbers are also way up.
A) He’s playing 11 more minutes a game, B) His useage rate has been increased by almost 7%
But his Offensive Rating has dropped by 2.5 points and his Net Rating has dropped by 3.4 points from 13.6 to 10.2.

Look. I’m not trying to disrespect Free. But the fact is that in a true comparison between he and Champagnie, who’s stats and ratings across every category have gone up this season, Champagnie wins as Most Improved player.

And, as I said numerous times, I love Free, but there are areas where he HAS regressed, but I don’t blame him totally either. I believe he’s been thrown into a role by Steele that is a bit too burdensome for a Sophomore. You can argue that it happened out of necessity because of injuries to others or other factors, and I’ll listen to that argument. The Steele strategy certainly has not helped the team record whereas Mike Anderson’s strategy with Julian, has.

Bottom line. In overall play, Free has “marginally” improved, but there is important regression in critical categories.
By all measures and metrics in matter of fact, Champagnie is the leagues Most Improved Player. I’m glad Free got some recognition, but as we all know in this and in life, awards don’t always reflect what’s real.

MOR you are trying too hard. Try to support the guys without looking for something to be disgruntled about. There is a lot to be concerned about with the team but worrying about a sophomore who has had a great year by all accounts is a little over the top. Could the guy from St John’s have been the sole winner? Sure he had a great year but at the end of the day so did Zach. He wasn’t perfect but he was pretty damn good at times. Probably asked to do too much out of necessity, but excited he is at Xavier. Hopefully he kicks ass in New York. If Zach was perfect in all areas he would probably be leaving after this year but he isn’t and has a lot to work on. That’s a good thing

[Masterofreality]

MOR you are trying too hard. Try to support the guys without looking for something to be disgruntled about. There is a lot to be concerned about with the team but worrying about a sophomore who has had a great year by all accounts is a little over the top. Could the guy from St John’s have been the sole winner? Sure he had a great year but at the end of the day so did Zach. He wasn’t perfect but he was pretty damn good at times. Probably asked to do too much out of necessity, but excited he is at Xavier. Hopefully he kicks ass in New York. If Zach was perfect in all areas he would probably be leaving after this year but he isn’t and has a lot to work on. That’s a good thing

Not trying too hard, or even trying at all. Just pointing out facts. Just like if Clifton Community College fans were fawning all over Sean Kilpatrick as a better college player than Tu Holloway. We’d be calling BS on that in volume.
Again, I love Free and glad he’s here, Glad he got a piece of hardware that will wind up in his basement some day, but whether it’s Xavier or a rival school, you gotta go with the facts and not fanboy fawning.

All I know is that Xavier needs to win Basketball games. And this coach had better stop with the Participation Trophy salesman talk and produce. Message Board fodder aside, that’s what counts.

[xavierj]

Not trying too hard, or even trying at all. Just pointing out facts. Just like if Clifton Community College fans were fawning all over Sean Kilpatrick as a better college player than Tu Holloway. We’d be calling BS on that in volume.
Again, I love Free and glad he’s here, Glad he got a piece of hardware that will wind up in his basement some day, but whether it’s Xavier or a rival school, you gotta go with the facts and not fanboy fawning.

All I know is that Xavier needs to win Basketball games. And this coach had better stop with the Participation Trophy salesman talk and produce. Message Board fodder aside, that’s what counts.

Yep and hopefully going forward this team can make shots. That is really going to determine if they win or lose. The shots they are taking are good looks. Players need to finish at the rim and make some damn freaking wide open looks. Coaches can’t do anything other than design plays to get them open looks and play the guys who are capable.

[Dblue]

Not trying too hard, or even trying at all. Just pointing out facts. Just like if Clifton Community College fans were fawning all over Sean Kilpatrick as a better college player than Tu Holloway. We’d be calling BS on that in volume.
Again, I love Free and glad he’s here, Glad he got a piece of hardware that will wind up in his basement some day, but whether it’s Xavier or a rival school, you gotta go with the facts and not fanboy fawning.

All I know is that Xavier needs to win Basketball games. And this coach had better stop with the Participation Trophy salesman talk and produce. Message Board fodder aside, that’s what counts.

You can find numbers to tell any story you want. The list of statistics mentioned earlier left Champagnie's regression in field goal percentage. Zach better than doubled two statistical categories, Champagnie didn't. This is why there is a vote by the coaches that have to scout and scheme against the players.

It doesn't take a fanboy to realize both players in their own way are deserving of considerations in the award. I don't understand a fan to argue against a tie in voting in defense of the player not on their team.

To each their own I guess!

[boozehound]

You can find numbers to tell any story you want. The list of statistics mentioned earlier left Champagnie's regression in field goal percentage. Zach better than doubled two statistical categories, Champagnie didn't. This is why there is a vote by the coaches that have to scout and scheme against the players.

It doesn't take a fanboy to realize both players in their own way are deserving of considerations in the award. I don't understand a fan to argue against a tie in voting in defense of the player not on their team.

To each their own I guess!

Also, again, this board didn't vote on the Most Improved Player. Opposing coaches did.

This whole discussion is downright bizarre. We have had a lot of absurd debates on this board, but this one is a hall of famer.

[SM#24]

but it just feels like Xavier got thrown a bone by the league
Why would the league coaches do that ? What is their motivation ?
Why pick out Xavier to receive a bone ?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why the hell would the league be "throwing Xavier a bone" that makes literally zero sense. Xavier already had Free and Scruggs on 2nd team all conference and Jones on all freshman team. The idea that the BE coaches thought, "man you know what, we really feel bad Xavier didn't have a better season, let's throw them a bone and give Freemantle an aware he doesnt really deserve" is absurd.

What a strange argument.

[xu82]

Why the hell would the league be "throwing Xavier a bone" that makes literally zero sense. Xavier already had Free and Scruggs on 2nd team all conference and Jones on all freshman team. The idea that the BE coaches thought, "man you know what, we really feel bad Xavier didn't have a better season, let's throw them a bone and give Freemantle an aware he doesnt really deserve" is absurd.

What a strange argument.


Sometimes people just get blinded by their agenda, I guess.....

[boozehound]

Why the hell would the league be "throwing Xavier a bone" that makes literally zero sense. Xavier already had Free and Scruggs on 2nd team all conference and Jones on all freshman team. The idea that the BE coaches thought, "man you know what, we really feel bad Xavier didn't have a better season, let's throw them a bone and give Freemantle an aware he doesnt really deserve" is absurd.

What a strange argument.

Strange is definitely the correct word to describe it.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I want to be the first to welcome Pat Kelsey to Xavier. Welcome home and I hope you can keep the talent that we do have. I look forward to you bringing winning basketball back to Xavier. To coach Steele! YOU FN SUCK.