NY POST Article Re the Big East

[xudash]

https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/abandoning-big-east-has-been-disaster-for-syracuse-notre-dame/

Truth.

[GoMuskies]

The BE part, yep. The part where the Rutgers player calls college basketball "modern slavery" in between his free college classes and just before getting on a private jet to fly to Chicago to play in a basketball game, less so.

[Strange Brew]

ND should join the BE as the 12th member for all sports but football. Makes sense for them on the football front and helps the league’s geography and academic prowess.

[drudy23]

I feel so bad for Boeheim.

Does anyone actually like Jim Boeheim?

[GoMuskies]

Does anyone actually like Jim Boeheim?

Jim Boeheim thinks Jim Boeheim is just the best.

[MHettel]

Wonder if ND would consider a move back to the BE. Might have seemed like a really good idea at the time.

But, since that time the BE has surely demonstrated some staying power and an ability to compete at the absolute highest level. Add in the return of UConn, and suddenly the brand is further strengthened. The Gap between the ACC and BE is not as large as it could have ended up being.

Consider 2 other things for ND. Womens BBall and Football. Hooking back up with UConn womens hoops would be a very positive move. That would directly strengthen the other womens BBall programs in the BE. And Football is a non-event for them. They currently play what, 5 games a year against the ACC? They can still do that if they want. Or not. I think there is some deal where they can get into the BCS as a member of the "ACC" under certain circumstance. That might come into play...

The BE would welcome ND in a heartbeat.

Wonder if NBC has an "option" to broadcast ND BBall games. The football TV deal is probably the only thing in the way.

[Xville]

Why would the BE want Notre Dame? We are talking basketball, right? Notre Dame basketball is irrelevant, and the school and their fans are a bunch of pompous douchebags. Hard pass.

[surfxu]

All the Big East coaches have mentioned their support of the current round robin environment where everyone plays each other home and away. Add ND and that completely goes away. Adding UConn took away two non-conference games which means there is zero flexibility on the non-conference side to be creative and do a home and away against the likes of a Arizona, Gonzaga, Florida State (fill in the name of any other high major or PAC12, ACC, SEC type team). With the current scheduled arrangements between the Big East and the Big10 & Big12, an exempt event like Maui, Bahamas, Orlando etc, the crosstown shootout, Skip Prosser Classic every other year and the required 3-4 buy games to fill the arena/coffers there is nothing left to schedule. Adding ND would mean an unbalanced schedule & probably drop the Big East games back to 18 or even 17 or 16 which would create more opportunities from a non-conference scheduling standpoint. I just don't think the coaches would support the unbalanced schedule in the Big East though.

[MHettel]

Why would the BE want Notre Dame? We are talking basketball, right? Notre Dame basketball is irrelevant, and the school and their fans are a bunch of pompous douchebags. Hard pass.

That's a pretty big brand. Seems like you don't like them, and trust me, neither do I. But I wont let my personal opinion of Notre Dame cloud by business judgement. Adding a big brand to a portfolio of already well known brands is a no-brainer.

On the Women's side, it could help nearly all of the programs. Also, other sports in general. Notre Dame is good across the board.

[Muskeagle]

I get the "brand" argument. However, I really like the round robin. I think the huge conferences have hurt the game and the leagues. With Villanova and UCONN, I think the brand is in pretty good shape...plus arguably, ND basketball doesn't help a ton. My preference is that they NOT add a 12th team, even if the "brand" would get a boost.

[MHettel]

All the Big East coaches have mentioned their support of the current round robin environment where everyone plays each other home and away. Add ND and that completely goes away. Adding UConn took away two non-conference games which means there is zero flexibility on the non-conference side to be creative and do a home and away against the likes of a Arizona, Gonzaga, Florida State (fill in the name of any other high major or PAC12, ACC, SEC type team). With the current scheduled arrangements between the Big East and the Big10 & Big12, an exempt event like Maui, Bahamas, Orlando etc, the crosstown shootout, Skip Prosser Classic every other year and the required 3-4 buy games to fill the arena/coffers there is nothing left to schedule. Adding ND would mean an unbalanced schedule & probably drop the Big East games back to 18 or even 17 or 16 which would create more opportunities from a non-conference scheduling standpoint. I just don't think the coaches would support the unbalanced schedule in the Big East though.

I keep hearing that. Always. And the reality is that maybe the round robin approach has to go by the wayside in the interest of some broader goals. I'm in favor of BE expansion. Always have been. I want to figure out a way to add Gonzaga, but that is just too much damn distance to cover. You'd have to get to 16 or 18 teams to pull that off, and then for sure have 2 divisions or maybe even 3.

Options:
Add ND only, and have unbalanced schedules. (18 games, so add 2 non-con)
Add ND and create 2 6 team divisions. Play 16 games (2x division rivals, 1x other divisions). Pick up 4 NON-Con games.
Add ND + 2 others (UD and SLU). Play 19 games (2X division rivals, 1 x other divisions). pick up 1 non-con games.

Don't overlook the impact of non-con games on SOS. YOU HAVE to play non-con games, and ideally you WIN those.

If we played ONLY conference games, using a round robin format the total W/L % for your opponents and opponents/opponents would be right around .500 for each team, and would be EXACTLY .500 for the conference. That would stack up poorly when comparing to other conferences.

I would add 3 teams, reduce the number of conference games, and encourage teams to schedule their non-con slate to enter conference play with a combined 75% winning %. SOS will skyrocket. Also, you do need some separation in the standings. You need 4-5 teams at the top, 4-5 clearly in the middle, and then 4-5 punching bags.

[MHettel]

I get the "brand" argument. However, I really like the round robin. I think the huge conferences have hurt the game and the leagues. With Villanova and UCONN, I think the brand is in pretty good shape...plus arguably, ND basketball doesn't help a ton. My preference is that they NOT add a 12th team, even if the "brand" would get a boost.

Ok, obviously it's not that compelling to you, which is fine. I just cannot overlook the Coast to Coast brand awareness of ND, and how BBall can ride on the coattails.

Stand in the shoes of FS1. Think they wouldn't want ND on their channel? Think that might be an entry point to snag the ND football deal?

Stand in the shoes of ND. They ALREADY have the sweet NBC football deal. They can see the leverage that FS1 could provide them.

[Muskeagle]

Ok, obviously it's not that compelling to you, which is fine. I just cannot overlook the Coast to Coast brand awareness of ND, and how BBall can ride on the coattails.

Stand in the shoes of FS1. Think they wouldn't want ND on their channel? Think that might be an entry point to snag the ND football deal?

Stand in the shoes of ND. They ALREADY have the sweet NBC football deal. They can see the leverage that FS1 could provide them.

All good points...just detailing my preference. League will probably at some point go your way (if they can), but I prefer the League as is. I'm a pretty progressive guy, so it's not change I fear, I just happen to think when you get some things right, you stick with them. Bigger, not always better. I think the 16 team Big East imploded a bit under its own weight.

[MHettel]

All good points...just detailing my preference. League will probably at some point go your way (if they can), but I prefer the League as is. I'm a pretty progressive guy, so it's not change I fear, I just happen to think when you get some things right, you stick with them. Bigger, not always better. I think the 16 team Big East imploded a bit under its own weight.

Old BE blew up because of football. They learned their lesson on that. Not in issue under expansion scenarios.

It wont happen. But I would like I to.

[paulxu]

MHettel...is that you JP?

[Muskeagle]

Old BE blew up because of football. They learned their lesson on that. Not in issue under expansion scenarios.

It wont happen. But I would like I to.

I know that football was the immediate cause. I think it can still be argued that the bloated size of the league led to breakdown of previous cohesion, identity, and overall sense of togetherness, that allowed football to destroy what had been the one of the three best basketball conferences in the land.

[MHettel]

I know that football was the immediate cause. I think it can still be argued that the bloated size of the league led to breakdown of previous cohesion, identity, and overall sense of togetherness, that allowed football to destroy what had been the one of the three best basketball conferences in the land.

I think you have the "cause and effect" backwards.

The perception that the BE needed to be a top Football conference is what caused the conference to recruit members that had a better football program than basketball. That was the beginning of the erosion of the cohesion and identity among the teams.

Classic case of taking your eye off the ball.

[bjf123]

Another vote to leave things as is. I love the round robin / home and home schedule we have now. Adding another team kills that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xudash]

I favor the RR, too and I hope we maintain it for a while.

A few comments/points:

The first step in ND rethinking its conference affiliation for its non-football sports is the amount of money it makes from the ACC versus what it would make from an enhanced Fox deal for the BE with both UCONN and ND included in it. If that math doesn't work out, then there is no chance. ND already most likely likes its affiliation with some of the more stellar academic institutions in that league. Competition for basketball and the olympic sports is strong. So, if the money doesn't make sense, it has no chance of happening.

Otherwise, I certainly do not want to see the BE go to 14 teams, unless media contracts/content requirements make that a necessity at some point. If we ever do have to expand to that size, then the University of Dayton will not and will never be a part of it. That isn't my bias talking. This is a strategic issue for Xavier, not a basketball issue. We like them where they are right now - - in mid-major hell with LaSalle and Fordham. In the meantime, we're aligned with the schools we definitely want to be aligned with, and with which they desperately would love to be aligned. Checkmate VD.

[Xville]

I don’t see how notre dame is a “brand” when football isn’t involved. Maybe I’m wrong but I would be willing to bet there is a significant portion of the nd football fan base that barely knows they have a basketball team. And nationally, ND basketball is completely irrelevant. And I’m sorry call me an ass or whatever, but who gives a crap about the Olympic sports or frankly anything outside of men’s basketball. (I know women’s basketball brings in some money for some teams but overall ) The rest bring zero money in so that shouldn’t matter in decision making.

[waggy]

IMO playing a round robin where X visits each of the east coast programs every year is very important for recruiting. Cutting those visits in half would be a bad move. On the other hand, Notre Dame is unique, and is the only school where it would probably be worthwhile for the overall good of the conference.

[AviatorX]

Why would ND want to downgrade from the ACC to the Big East in basketball?

[AviatorX]

I don’t see how notre dame is a “brand” when football isn’t involved. Maybe I’m wrong but I would be willing to bet there is a significant portion of the nd football fan base that barely knows they have a basketball team. And nationally, ND basketball is completely irrelevant. And I’m sorry call me an ass or whatever, but who gives a crap about the Olympic sports or frankly anything outside of men’s basketball. (I know women’s basketball brings in some money for some teams but overall ) The rest bring zero money in so that shouldn’t matter in decision making.

Notre Dame is in the middle of a down stretch, but they were in general pretty damn good for about a decade straight before that.

[MHettel]

I don’t see how notre dame is a “brand” when football isn’t involved. Maybe I’m wrong but I would be willing to bet there is a significant portion of the nd football fan base that barely knows they have a basketball team. And nationally, ND basketball is completely irrelevant. And I’m sorry call me an ass or whatever, but who gives a crap about the Olympic sports or frankly anything outside of men’s basketball. (I know women’s basketball brings in some money for some teams but overall ) The rest bring zero money in so that shouldn’t matter in decision making.

Well, maybe you should ask the ACC what they saw in ND.

[94GRAD]

Well, maybe you should ask the ACC what they saw in ND.

I believe, as part of their other sports membership, they have to play 5 ACC opponents a year.

[Xville]

Well, maybe you should ask the ACC what they saw in ND.

The football agreement. Otherwise doubt they would have been interested.

[Xavier]

I wouldn't say they are bad at basketball. Since 2010 they have been a 7 seed or better 7 times with 2 elite 8 runs. Compare that to Xavier and they have been a 7 seed or better 5 times in that time span, 1 elite 8 and three sweet 16's.

They have been on a slump- I think a move to BE would help the program and I would welcome it. I don't see that being an option though.

[Xville]

I wouldn't say they are bad at basketball. Since 2010 they have been a 7 seed or better 7 times with 2 elite 8 runs. Compare that to Xavier and they have been a 7 seed or better 5 times in that time span, 1 elite 8 and three sweet 16's.

They have been on a slump- I think a move to BE would help the program and I would welcome it. I don't see that being an option though.

No they aren't bad at all, I just don't think they are a "brand" when it comes to basketball. UCONN for instance is much more of a brand when it comes to basketball....multiple championships, multiple final fours, northeast market etc etc. ND football has that kind of cache from a historical perspective, basketball no one cares.

[GoMuskies]

ND basketball still draws a bunch of eyeballs, because there are a ton of ND fans. People who aren't ND fans don't watch ND basketball the way they do ND football, of course.

[xubrew]

Wonder if ND would consider a move back to the BE. Might have seemed like a really good idea at the time.

But, since that time the BE has surely demonstrated some staying power and an ability to compete at the absolute highest level. Add in the return of UConn, and suddenly the brand is further strengthened. The Gap between the ACC and BE is not as large as it could have ended up being.

Consider 2 other things for ND. Womens BBall and Football. Hooking back up with UConn womens hoops would be a very positive move. That would directly strengthen the other womens BBall programs in the BE. And Football is a non-event for them. They currently play what, 5 games a year against the ACC? They can still do that if they want. Or not. I think there is some deal where they can get into the BCS as a member of the "ACC" under certain circumstance. That might come into play...

The BE would welcome ND in a heartbeat.

Wonder if NBC has an "option" to broadcast ND BBall games. The football TV deal is probably the only thing in the way.

Whatever "gap" there is between the ACC and the Big East exists because the Big East has been out in front of it. Since going to a ten team format, it has totally outperformed the ACC. A higher percentage of teams routinely make the NCAA Tournament, and it's been the overall #1 conference multiple times in just about every power rating.

The only other conference in existence that routinely sends more than half of its teams to the NCAA Tournament?? The Big Twelve. Also a ten team league, and also the double round robin.

No conference has made itself better in basketball by expanding. The idea that the ACC is better now than it was with it's classic 8 (and then 9) team format is totally wrong. In fact, it's easier to argue the opposite is true. Do you know how many times the Big East finished as the best conference in the power ratings when it had 16 teams? ZERO! Do you know how many times they managed to send more than half the teams to the tournament (something that now routinely happens)? ONCE! Disregarding brand (which I know is a lot to disregard) and looking only at performance, the current Big East is outperforming the 16 team Big East, and the current ACC, and the current SEC. The current Big Twelve format is outperforming the old 12 team format.

So, think about that for a second. Why expand AT ALL?? Why do the very thing that the ACC did that now has people talking about how those schools are worse off now than they were before?? Nothing against UConn, but I really didn't want an 11th team. That will throw off what is the perfect Goldie Locks "just right" balance that comes with the power ratings like the NET. That's 20 fewer potential OOC wins, which could lower the percentage just a tad to where the boost you get from 18 conference games again and again and again and every time you play, is slightly less. I don't think it matters THAT much, but it does matter a little. We were just fine without UConn. I mean, we were FIRST! And...you can't get more first than first.

I know you're seeing conferences like the ACC and Big Ten going to 20 game conference schedules thinking it will, among other things, boost their overall strength. It won't. So, lets not follow that model.

[Xavier]

I think I would rate conferences more on tournament success rather than just getting to the tournament. When you look at the sweet 16/elite 8- how many are from what conference. The ACC and Big 10 are still better than the Big East in that regard

[MHettel]

Whatever "gap" there is between the ACC and the Big East exists because the Big East has been out in front of it. Since going to a ten team format, it has totally outperformed the ACC. A higher percentage of teams routinely make the NCAA Tournament, and it's been the overall #1 conference multiple times in just about every power rating.

The only other conference in existence that routinely sends more than half of its teams to the NCAA Tournament?? The Big Twelve. Also a ten team league, and also the double round robin.

No conference has made itself better in basketball by expanding. The idea that the ACC is better now than it was with it's classic 8 (and then 9) team format is totally wrong. In fact, it's easier to argue the opposite is true. Do you know how many times the Big East finished as the best conference in the power ratings when it had 16 teams? ZERO! Do you know how many times they managed to send more than half the teams to the tournament (something that now routinely happens)? ONCE! Disregarding brand (which I know is a lot to disregard) and looking only at performance, the current Big East is outperforming the 16 team Big East, and the current ACC, and the current SEC. The current Big Twelve format is outperforming the old 12 team format.

So, think about that for a second. Why expand AT ALL?? Why do the very thing that the ACC did that now has people talking about how those schools are worse off now than they were before?? Nothing against UConn, but I really didn't want an 11th team. That will throw off what is the perfect Goldie Locks "just right" balance that comes with the power ratings like the NET. That's 20 fewer potential OOC wins, which could lower the percentage just a tad to where the boost you get from 18 conference games again and again and again and every time you play, is slightly less. I don't think it matters THAT much, but it does matter a little. We were just fine without UConn. I mean, we were FIRST! And...you can't get more first than first.

I know you're seeing conferences like the ACC and Big Ten going to 20 game conference schedules thinking it will, among other things, boost their overall strength. It won't. So, lets not follow that model.

Let me guess. You still own Blockbuster Stock, right?

Look, sometimes when the winds blows you just need to raise your sail. Football considerations drive the NCAA, and Basketball is at the mercy of decision made to benefit football. The idea that the ACC should have stayed at 8-9 teams is just foolish. The ultimate push by football was to get to 4 "major" conferences with 16 teams each. Perfect symmetry for an 8 team football playoff. It could have happened when the Pac 12 was close to snagging Texas, which would have completely imploded the Big 12. That was the death blow, but Texas pulled off some TV deal that sidestepped the whole thing.

So collectively, the NCAA went through an extended period of consolidation and reconfiguration. The BE was REACTIVE. They had to be. They lost flagship programs Syracuse, UConn and UofL. For basketball, losing UC, ND and Pitt was not insignificant.

Look we benefited DIRECTLY from all this turmoil. Why fight it?

The way I see it is that nearly every BBall program with any kind of Brand is already connected to either a Power 5 Conference or the Big East. There are a FEW programs out there that have the right mix of success, location, and resources that are still attractive. At some point, some conference will make a move to get Gonzaga, likely in a BBall only move. St. Mary's is solid, and in SF. UD (BOOOO) has some appeal for a few reasons. SLU as well.

In my mind the BE is NOT the top conference. The BE has ONE big name team that has carried us for the last 6 years. UCONN is a big move and if GTown could get their act together we could have 3. The rest (XU included) are more second tier brands. Not quite "Top Shelf", but not quite "Well" either.

BUT, while the BE is not the strongest at the TOP, it's arguable that it is the deepest. Aside from DePaul and SJU every other team has had some recent regular season success and tourney appearances.

I'm only suggesting that we take the lead to grab any remaining brands out there as much for reasons of keeping them out of the hands of the Big 5. Keep and eye on depth and quality.

[xukeith]

Whatever "gap" there is between the ACC and the Big East exists because the Big East has been out in front of it. Since going to a ten team format, it has totally outperformed the ACC. A higher percentage of teams routinely make the NCAA Tournament, and it's been the overall #1 conference multiple times in just about every power rating.

The only other conference in existence that routinely sends more than half of its teams to the NCAA Tournament?? The Big Twelve. Also a ten team league, and also the double round robin.

No conference has made itself better in basketball by expanding. The idea that the ACC is better now than it was with it's classic 8 (and then 9) team format is totally wrong. In fact, it's easier to argue the opposite is true. Do you know how many times the Big East finished as the best conference in the power ratings when it had 16 teams? ZERO! Do you know how many times they managed to send more than half the teams to the tournament (something that now routinely happens)? ONCE! Disregarding brand (which I know is a lot to disregard) and looking only at performance, the current Big East is outperforming the 16 team Big East, and the current ACC, and the current SEC. The current Big Twelve format is outperforming the old 12 team format.

So, think about that for a second. Why expand AT ALL?? Why do the very thing that the ACC did that now has people talking about how those schools are worse off now than they were before?? Nothing against UConn, but I really didn't want an 11th team. That will throw off what is the perfect Goldie Locks "just right" balance that comes with the power ratings like the NET. That's 20 fewer potential OOC wins, which could lower the percentage just a tad to where the boost you get from 18 conference games again and again and again and every time you play, is slightly less. I don't think it matters THAT much, but it does matter a little. We were just fine without UConn. I mean, we were FIRST! And...you can't get more first than first.

I know you're seeing conferences like the ACC and Big Ten going to 20 game conference schedules thinking it will, among other things, boost their overall strength. It won't. So, lets not follow that model.

Very good observations. Agree.

[xubrew]

Let me guess. You still own Blockbuster Stock, right?

Look, sometimes when the winds blows you just need to raise your sail. Football considerations drive the NCAA, and Basketball is at the mercy of decision made to benefit football. The idea that the ACC should have stayed at 8-9 teams is just foolish. The ultimate push by football was to get to 4 "major" conferences with 16 teams each. Perfect symmetry for an 8 team football playoff. It could have happened when the Pac 12 was close to snagging Texas, which would have completely imploded the Big 12. That was the death blow, but Texas pulled off some TV deal that sidestepped the whole thing.

So collectively, the NCAA went through an extended period of consolidation and reconfiguration. The BE was REACTIVE. They had to be. They lost flagship programs Syracuse, UConn and UofL. For basketball, losing UC, ND and Pitt was not insignificant.

Look we benefited DIRECTLY from all this turmoil. Why fight it?

The way I see it is that nearly every BBall program with any kind of Brand is already connected to either a Power 5 Conference or the Big East. There are a FEW programs out there that have the right mix of success, location, and resources that are still attractive. At some point, some conference will make a move to get Gonzaga, likely in a BBall only move. St. Mary's is solid, and in SF. UD (BOOOO) has some appeal for a few reasons. SLU as well.

In my mind the BE is NOT the top conference. The BE has ONE big name team that has carried us for the last 6 years. UCONN is a big move and if GTown could get their act together we could have 3. The rest (XU included) are more second tier brands. Not quite "Top Shelf", but not quite "Well" either.

BUT, while the BE is not the strongest at the TOP, it's arguable that it is the deepest. Aside from DePaul and SJU every other team has had some recent regular season success and tourney appearances.

I'm only suggesting that we take the lead to grab any remaining brands out there as much for reasons of keeping them out of the hands of the Big 5. Keep and eye on depth and quality.

I never said the ACC should have stayed at 9 teams. I said going beyond that did not make their basketball any better, and it didn't. It did give them a conference championship game in football that captures the interest of dozens of people every year, though. I know why they did it. I also know that their basketball isn't as good as it used to be.

The Big East doesn't play football, so doing what the P5 conferences have really only done for football reasons doesn't make any sense. It's crazy to look at how the ACC went from 9, to 12, to 14 and conclude the Big East should add teams because...


At some point, some conference will make a move to get Gonzaga, likely in a BBall only move. St. Mary's is solid, and in SF. UD (BOOOO) has some appeal for a few reasons. SLU as well.

Uhh...okay??

[muethibp]

Notre Dame fits geographically and culturally, and it's one of the biggest names in sports generally (not just college athletics). It would add untold interest in the conference and millions of value to the conference's TV contract. If they were willing to come, the Big East should add them immediately and then work out the rest. Which is exactly what the league and the presidents would vote to do. You can say you might not want to add Notre Dame but if you think the Big East wouldn't, then you don't really get it.

[xucub]

The Big East needs the schools from the largest markets to get out of the basement of the league - St. John's (New York), Georgetown (DC/Baltimore), DePaul (Chicago). If those teams get good, TV will notice and the recruiting waters will rise for the rest of the league. Butler, Creighton, and even Xavier are not national draws until they can put themselves into Final Four talk. (Butler did, and now they are even just a blip on the basketball map.)

[Strange Brew]

Notre Dame fits geographically and culturally, and it's one of the biggest names in sports generally (not just college athletics). It would add untold interest in the conference and millions of value to the conference's TV contract. If they were willing to come, the Big East should add them immediately and then work out the rest. Which is exactly what the league and the presidents would vote to do. You can say you might not want to add Notre Dame but if you think the Big East wouldn't, then you don't really get it.

As much as we hate to admit it adding ND would add to the academic profile of the conference as well (I love ND and have family and friends that are grads. No beef from me but I understand people don't like ND because of their perceived academic snobbery).

[GoMuskies]

I don't think it's the academic snobbery. I mean, Notre Dame is a fine, relatively selective, relatively well-regarded university. USNWR ranks it #19 among national universities, which is very solid. But it's really the sports fans (particularly the Catholic ones from far away who aren't really sure which state South Bend is in) who make ND easy to dislike.

[Strange Brew]

I don't think it's the academic snobbery. I mean, Notre Dame is a fine, relatively selective, relatively well-regarded university. USNWR ranks it #19 among national universities, which is very solid. But it's really the sports fans (particularly the Catholic ones from far away who aren't really sure which state South Bend is in) who make ND easy to dislike.

Frankly most of us have been pretty humbled for most of our lives and except the reality that ND football is not where it was. May never will be again.

[GoMuskies]

Frankly most of us have been pretty humbled for most of our lives and except the reality that ND football is not where it was. May never will be again.

That's fair, and there are plenty of great ND fans. The NBC contract has just made it worse, because from the broadcasts you'd think you were watching church. For every team that goes in and wins in South Bend they act like it's the biggest win in the history of their program.

[Strange Brew]

That's fair, and there are plenty of great ND fans. The NBC contract has just made it worse, because from the broadcasts you'd think you were watching church. For every team that goes in and wins in South Bend they act like it's the biggest win in the history of their program.

I wish they’d get rid of the contract. ND would still be on every weekend but the games wouldn’t take 5 hours.

[GIMMFD]

I agree with the premise of the article, I think Stallings was the reason for Pitt's demise the most, he was truly a headless chicken, and Jaime Dixon had that program doing very well with guys like Dejuan Blair, and this is coming from someone who absolutely hates Pitt. I think Capel has the potential to get Pitt into a competitive program since he's a damn good recruiter, granted the recruiting success at Duke was being K's bag man according to rumors lol. I think Notre Dame is an interesting thought, they have a lot of flexibility in football with whatever deal they set up with the ACC, it does bring a culture and following along with it, they're on a slump but realistically it's foolish to think they wouldn't bring more money to the conference.

I think the round-robin schedule is great and don't want it to change, and I understand the concerns of scheduling, but we're not going to be locked into the Skip Prossor, Gavit Games, etc. every single year, so we'll still have some flexibility down the road in the future, however I think the current set-up overall is better getting a chance at each team twice. I also think the recruiting thing is a bit overstated, I'm not 100% sure if in the social media age, and climate of college hoops if recruits care if you're touching every single place on the schedule or are near home/coast, because recruits now have highlights, information, etc. of programs at the tip of their fingertips along with vice-versa.

[paulxu]

I don't want ND for the simple reason I like the double RR.
I'd feel the same way about adding anyone.

[JTG]

I don't want ND for the simple reason I like the double RR.
I'd feel the same way about adding anyone.
I like the round robin also, but I would give that up for only ND. No Dayton, or St Louis, and logistically Gonzaga is never going to happen. ND brings cache, and eyeballs which translates into network cash.

[xudash]

I like the round robin also, but I would give that up for only ND. No Dayton, or St Louis, and logistically Gonzaga is never going to happen. ND brings cache, and eyeballs which translates into network cash.

Spot on.

[Muskie]

ND also brings a perfectly drivable road game into the conference. Though I do like the RR.

[Strange Brew]

ND also brings a perfectly drivable road game into the conference. Though I do like the RR.

An ND football game, Xavier hoops combo would be an amazing weekend.

Edit: I realize this wouldn’t happen as the hoops conf schedule wouldn’t start until after football season. But it’d be a lot cooler if it did...

[paulxu]

Wouldn't a lot of it come down to $ in a discussion between Fox and BE powers?
Many (especially Catholic) alumni from other schools, follow ND football. Their schools may not have football (like ours) so you get a lot of ND fans who want to follow football somewhere. Some choose their local favorites, others (like many here) support ND football while supporting XU basketball.

They can probably look at ND basketball eyeballs and figure out how many that may or may not add to the BE eyeballs on Fox and FS1.
Then it might be presented to the BE with a possible increase in annual contract payouts.

Still hate to lose the RR.

[nuts4xu]

I keep hearing that. Always. And the reality is that maybe the round robin approach has to go by the wayside in the interest of some broader goals. I'm in favor of BE expansion. Always have been. I want to figure out a way to add Gonzaga, but that is just too much damn distance to cover. You'd have to get to 16 or 18 teams to pull that off, and then for sure have 2 divisions or maybe even 3.

Options:
Add ND only, and have unbalanced schedules. (18 games, so add 2 non-con)
Add ND and create 2 6 team divisions. Play 16 games (2x division rivals, 1x other divisions). Pick up 4 NON-Con games.
Add ND + 2 others (UD and SLU). Play 19 games (2X division rivals, 1 x other divisions). pick up 1 non-con games.

Don't overlook the impact of non-con games on SOS. YOU HAVE to play non-con games, and ideally you WIN those.

If we played ONLY conference games, using a round robin format the total W/L % for your opponents and opponents/opponents would be right around .500 for each team, and would be EXACTLY .500 for the conference. That would stack up poorly when comparing to other conferences.

I would add 3 teams, reduce the number of conference games, and encourage teams to schedule their non-con slate to enter conference play with a combined 75% winning %. SOS will skyrocket. Also, you do need some separation in the standings. You need 4-5 teams at the top, 4-5 clearly in the middle, and then 4-5 punching bags.

Seriously, what in THE SAM HELL is wrong with you?

All those options you listed are terrible and make no gawd damn sense. Get rid of the round robin, that everybody loves?? Cut the pie 16-18 ways? Split into 3 divisions? You want us to make LESS money off our basketball program? If we want to play 4-5 punching bags each season in conference, we should have stayed in the A-10.

Why water down a good thing like that? Have you fried your brain with hard drugs?

What a heaping, steaming, high stacked pile of bullshit nonsense. You are better than this MHETTEL.

[JTG]

No UD, and no SLU, and quit suggesting it. The 5 or 6 people on here in favor of UD, get in your car and drive the hell up to Dayton and watch a game. Don't fu#k up our TV demographic and recruiting etc., by allowing a program 50 miles away in the conference. Just stop it.

[UCGRAD4X]

No UD, and no SLU, and quit suggesting it. The 5 or 6 people on here in favor of UD, get in your car and drive the hell up to Dayton and watch a game. Don't fu#k up our TV demographic and recruiting etc., by allowing a program 50 miles away in the conference. Just stop it.

I agree that any consideration of that flaming pile of donkey dung just up the 7 5 is not and never should be even a consideration.

I'm still pissed we added UCan't - for different reasons. I wouldn't object to jettising the NE liberal heathen scum for Notre Dame our Mother.

Although I know that will never happen.

That idea died when DiUlio stabbed us in the back.

[Olsingledigit]

I feel so bad for Boeheim.

Does anyone actually like Jim Boeheim?

I definitely do NOT! He is a known cheater.

[MHettel]

Seriously, what in THE SAM HELL is wrong with you?

All those options you listed are terrible and make no gawd damn sense. Get rid of the round robin, that everybody loves?? Cut the pie 16-18 ways? Split into 3 divisions? You want us to make LESS money off our basketball program? If we want to play 4-5 punching bags each season in conference, we should have stayed in the A-10.

Why water down a good thing like that? Have you fried your brain with hard drugs?

What a heaping, steaming, high stacked pile of bullshit nonsense. You are better than this MHETTEL.

For clarity, I'll use the minimal amount of words to make my points, so you don't have to get it wrong.

1. I want Gonzaga.
2. Not realistic unless we expand.
3. Expansion must move the footprint West
4. UD and SLU are the best options available in the MW, to push the base that direction.
5. There aint shit between Omaha and Spokane.
6. You can't just have Gonzaga out there, 1500 miles from nothing.
7. You need to fill in the West and St Mary's and maybe BYU could work.
8. ND would help fill in the MW too.
9. now you have to be at 16 or 18 teams, which is too many to play the DRR
10. so you have to create divisions for schedules and travel reasons.

Its dominoes in reverse order. I WANT the first domino. But I have to start with the LAST domino.

I just want Gonzaga. And 9 other dominos have to fall to make that happen. I don't think for ONE MINUTE that its gonna happen. But I wont stop thinking about the dominos.

NOBODY saw the UCONN expansion before it happened. but it made sense and changed the dominos a bit.

ND, and their lackluster ACC reign could be a future domino. Then what?

I don't want UD. and I don't want SLU. But I do want Gonzaga, and I'd take Fordham to make that happen.

[JEHARDI]

For clarity, I'll use the minimal amount of words to make my points, so you don't have to get it wrong.

1. I want Gonzaga.
2. Not realistic unless we expand.
3. Expansion must move the footprint West
4. UD and SLU are the best options available in the MW, to push the base that direction.
5. There aint shit between Omaha and Spokane.
6. You can't just have Gonzaga out there, 1500 miles from nothing.
7. You need to fill in the West and St Mary's and maybe BYU could work.
8. ND would help fill in the MW too.
9. now you have to be at 16 or 18 teams, which is too many to play the DRR
10. so you have to create divisions for schedules and travel reasons.

Its dominoes in reverse order. I WANT the first domino. But I have to start with the LAST domino.

I just want Gonzaga. And 9 other dominos have to fall to make that happen. I don't think for ONE MINUTE that its gonna happen. But I wont stop thinking about the dominos.

NOBODY saw the UCONN expansion before it happened. but it made sense and changed the dominos a bit.

ND, and their lackluster ACC reign could be a future domino. Then what?

I don't want UD. and I don't want SLU. But I do want Gonzaga, and I'd take Fordham to make that happen.

Pipe dreams....

[Xville]

My thought is that unless some more of the past “original” big east want to come back with their tail between their legs, leave the league where it is. I think it would be cool to bring back Syracuse and Pitt. I know both of those teams are down right now but I do think they are hurt from the geographical nature of where they are vs the core of the acc.

Anyways never gonna happen because of football but that’s all I’d do. I have zero interest in nd and their pompous douchebaggery, and zags are on the other side of the country.