Game Thread: Xavier vs. Creighton (12/23/2020)

[paulxu]

https://www.brickeconomy.com/resources/images/sets/lego-8804-3_large.jpgVS. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_kSZcGyICcU/U_4Ih6s8DzI/AAAAAAAAAH4/VA4qlB0lXVY/s1600/New%2BBillie.jpg

THE MATCHUP

NO. 22/22 XAVIER UNIVERSITY MUSKETEERS (8-0, 1-0 BIG EAST)
NO. 13/13 CREIGHTON UNIVERSITY BLUEJAYS (6-2, 2-1 BIG EAST)
WEDNESDAY, DEC. 23, 2020 AT 3 P.M. ET / 2 P.M. CT
CHI HEALTH CENTER OMAHA IN OMAHA, NEB.
TV, RADIO & LIVE STATS

Television: FS1 with pbp from Adam Alexander and analysis from Bill Raftery.
Radio: 700 WLW-AM with play-by-play from XU Hall of Famer and former XU standout Joe Sunderman ('79) and analysis from XU Hall of Famer and all-time leading scorer Byron Larkin ('88); broadcast also available on Sirius XM 384 and Internet 974.
Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com and fan stats at GoXavier.com.

[paulxu]

Get those puppies organized!

[American X]

Top 25 matchup! Thank you, Big East. Well, Marquette beat Creighton and Xavier beat Marquette, so just cancel the game and award the victory to Xavier. Transitive property, bitches!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not a fan of this start time. Boo...

[X-band '01]

Better get used to seeing odd start times this year, especially around Christmas.

[Xville]

7.5 dogs....crighton is good but think they are a bit overvalued at this point.

[X-band '01]

But it's also Xavier's first real road trip this year.

[STL_XUfan]

Xavier never shoots well at Creighton, so I am hoping this team of shooters can break that streak.

[bobbiemcgee]

I love the crazy in depth analysis Creighton does for these games:

https://gocreighton.com/news/2020/12/21/-13-mens-basketball-hosts-22-xavier-in-top-25-showdown.aspx

[DexterBailey84]

Yeah, I'm curious to see how they shoot being away from the friendly confines. They've been shooting on those same rims for quite a while now, it could throw them off a bit being in a different gym.

[GIMMFD]

Yeah, I don't mind the line on the road at Creighton, first true road test, and I'm curious like everyone else on how we shoot. Creighton has some dogs on that team, they're very solid, played Kansas really close earlier too. We gotta shoot well to have a chance.

[bobbiemcgee]

I'm ready for Kunk starring in Home Alone 2.

[XUGRAD80]

While I am now cautiously optimistic about this years team, I feel that how they perform in this game will tell us a lot about what their true potential is. I’m not necessarily looking for a victory, but I am hoping that at the very least it is a close and well played game. In my wildest dreams it’s another Oklahoma beat down, but I’d be just as happy with a 1 point win and X moving to 9-0. Hoping for another early Christmas present for Xavier Nation!

[Xuperman]

I love the crazy in depth analysis Creighton does for these games:

https://gocreighton.com/news/2020/12/21/-13-mens-basketball-hosts-22-xavier-in-top-25-showdown.aspx

That is just INSANE!!! I wonder how many people it takes to put that together? And they do it for every game? Unreal.

[Xavier]

Xavier has a lot of momentum right now. Fan base is pretty excited and hopeful (rightfully so). Just don't let this game take too much away from that. It very well may be the toughest game of the whole year (that or @Nova) and it is the first real road game of the season. That doesn't add up for much success.

Should tell us a lot about this team but I won't overreact....unless of course X pulls out a win. : )

[nuts4xu]

onions!!

[paulxu]

Release the Snipe !

(at least let him find a morning bar with FS1 on the TV)

[bobbiemcgee]

Happy Festivus!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiJLmTVL1sc

Time to air our grievances against the Jays.

[MADXSTER]

I re-watched the end of the Creighton UConn OT game. Creighton didn't shoot a single 3pt shot in the entire OT. They spread the floor and drove creating fouls. Overall they didn't impress.

[bleedXblue]

I re-watched the end of the Creighton UConn OT game. Creighton didn't shoot a single 3pt shot in the entire OT. They spread the floor and drove creating fouls. Overall they didn't impress.

They guarded Zegarowski really well and didn't let him create a lot. Was huge to keep they in the game......

[bobbiemcgee]

No Odum:

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
1h
Xavier's Dwon Odom will not be available for today's game against Creighton, per a school spokesman. Still in COVID-19 protocols.

Time to torch the nets!!! OMAHA!!! OMAHA!!!

[xu82]

Not a fan of this start time. Boo...

You don’t like the traditional Christmas Eve Eve Wednesday 3:00PM start???


I don’t blame you, but it’s 2020, after all. We’ve had Tuesday night NFL football to go with Wednesday afternoon football. I’m looking forward to New Years Day when the switch is flipped and we wake up from our 2020 nightmare!

[X Factor]

Excellent start!!!!

[noteggs]

Not a bad start! Nate “effing” Johnson

[XU20]

Wow, what a start to this game. Nate Johnson is incredible to watch from 3

[noteggs]

Wow that was Creighton’s first foul of the half

[RoseyMuskie]

Don’t quite think Wilcher is ready to play any meaningful minutes. His defense needs quite a bit of work.

The good thing is, this team has the depth to work through that.

[markchal]

Travis is killing me with these hockey subs. You start 17-5, maybe don't pull three starters four minutes into the game when we're rolling? He's killed our momentum. I think guys like Wilcher will be key down the road, but let's work him and others in against some of the other BE teams, not on the road in one of the biggest games of the year. Scruggs was the BE player of the week, why pull him so fast???

[IM4X]

Get Carter out of there.

[IM4X]

Taking bad threes. Bad shots in the post. Bad fouls.

[paulxu]

I'll never be happy with Scruggs going 1 on 4, but he got hammered.

[XUGRAD80]

Next few minutes are important. X has been hit by a couple of heavy body shots. Let’s see how they respond.

[IM4X]

Travis is killing me with these hockey subs. You start 17-5, maybe don't pull three starters four minutes into the game when we're rolling? He's killed our momentum. I think guys like Wilcher will be key down the road, but let's work him and others in against some of the other BE teams, not on the road in one of the biggest games of the year. Scruggs was the BE player of the week, why pull him so fast???


Completely agree. Just pull Carter.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Travis is killing me with these hockey subs. You start 17-5, maybe don't pull three starters four minutes into the game when we're rolling? He's killed our momentum. I think guys like Wilcher will be key down the road, but let's work him and others in against some of the other BE teams, not on the road in one of the biggest games of the year. Scruggs was the BE player of the week, why pull him so fast???

I remember we used to make fun of Brian Gregory for that. Whenever one of his players went on a nice run, you could guarantee he’d get pulled at the next horn. I used to think it was hilarious when we played against it. Not so hilarious now

[Roach]

The foul calls are completely lopsided so far.

[RoseyMuskie]

I’ll give Carter credit in that his defense has been solid the last few minutes but he can’t throw the ball into the ocean on offense.

[noteggs]

Griffin has got to take it straight up!

[GoMuskies]

That last 8 minutes of the half really sucked.

[RoseyMuskie]

Griffin has got to take it straight up!

He looks somewhat outmatched this game. I think he’s just a hair too slow for Creighton’s personnel.

[Roach]

Travis is killing me with these hockey subs. You start 17-5, maybe don't pull three starters four minutes into the game when we're rolling? He's killed our momentum. I think guys like Wilcher will be key down the road, but let's work him and others in against some of the other BE teams, not on the road in one of the biggest games of the year. Scruggs was the BE player of the week, why pull him so fast???

I literally had the exact same thought. It almost seems like he doesn’t know how to use his depth effectively, so instead uses it haphazardly.

[markchal]

Man, I feel like we really blew an opportunity after our starters came out of the gate on fire. Let Stanley and Wilcher get more minutes against the Butlers and St. Johns of the world, keep your foot on the gas when you have a big lead on the road.

[whopper]

we would take 2 pts down with almost no Freemantle. A little reverting to norm for Kunkel and Nate on the road to make up for probably outlier shooting at home. We are right there in a game that we were not favored in. Nice to see stanley score and Tandy contribute as well. We are right there

[xavierj]

Great start bad ending but Xavier missed a lot of good looks. I am ok with most of the shots. Great end of half play for Kunkel that looked like it was going down. Need Free to step it up 2nd half. Creighton is a good team but Xavier can beat them. I am ok with the subs. Need fresh legs in the 2nd half with this pace. Rather sit first half than get tired late.

[xavierj]

Man, I feel like we really blew an opportunity after our starters came out of the gate on fire. Let Stanley and Wilcher get more minutes against the Butlers and St. Johns of the world, keep your foot on the gas when you have a big lead on the road.

Did you expect the starting 5 to play the entire half? Freemantle has to come out so you had to play Stanley. He needs to get comfortable any way. Also Xavier was still playing well when they subbed then the shots stopped falling. 12 bench points which is a good thing

[IM4X]

X has looked about as “out of it” during the last eight minutes as Raftery has sounded.

[markchal]

Of course not, but I don't think you need to play 10 guys in the first 10 minutes either. Maybe work in Kunkel, Tandy, Griffin at first, and others as needed when foul trouble or stamina calls for it. Does the BE player of the week and clear team leader need to come out after 4 minutes?

[RoseyMuskie]

Great start bad ending but Xavier missed a lot of good looks. I am ok with most of the shots. Great end of half play for Kunkel that looked like it was going down. Need Free to step it up 2nd half. Creighton is a good team but Xavier can beat them. I am ok with the subs. Need fresh legs in the 2nd half with this pace. Rather sit first half than get tired late.

Here’s the thing. Subs are fine. But Wilcher is what, the 10th guy? When you can’t play defense at this level yet, don’t even risk throwing off other guys rhythm.

I’d go 8 deep this half, and pull Griffin and Wilcher out of the rotation.

[XUBison]

X has looked about as “out of it” during the last eight minutes as Raftery has sounded.


Yeah, what’s up with that? Maybe he’s got the Covid.

[Xville]

Anyone who doesnt think free is a liability on d isnt watching the games

[GoMuskies]

This is abusive.

[RoseyMuskie]

Perfect play to start. Don’t convert. Then wild swing. Ugh.

[Xville]

This team needs to get better on d, plain and simple

[IM4X]

Yeah, what’s up with that? Maybe he’s got the Covid.

I hope not- maybe It’s a bit of a cold. Even when he tries to put a little oomph into his delivery he still sounds lethargic.

[XUBob]

I agree about the need for a shorter rotation. Frustrating but this is the first time this year they’ve coughed up a double digit lead. That was a regular occurrence the past two years.

[Xuperman]

23 point swing in 10 minutes? We are toast.....unless our 3's start to fall.

[IM4X]

I don’t want to see carter shooting another 3 all game.

[GoMuskies]

Creighton's defense is smothering us. Not something I say very often about Creighton.

[XUGRAD80]

Griffin in and not Fremantle?

[markchal]

we went through what, an eight minute stretch with only 2 points? Wouldn't have guessed that from this offense and how we started.

[XUBison]

Creighton's defense is smothering us. Not something I say very often about Creighton.

yep, on both accounts.

[GoMuskies]

That's more like it!

[Xville]

Great run there...nice to see the ball go inside a bit to open up the three

[noteggs]

Better ball movement overall

[GoMuskies]

Probably need Scruggs.

[IM4X]

Come on Carter.

[GoMuskies]

Stop giving Carter the ball please.

[Xville]

Getting lucky with Creighton missing point blank shots. Carter is a disaster

[RoseyMuskie]

Carter plays offense at a 6th grade level...

[IM4X]

Back To back turnovers by Carter.

[GoMuskies]

Carter has to sit. Has to.

[Xville]

Get carter out of the damn game

[X Factor]

Get Carter out of there!

[GoMuskies]

I'm afraid it's time for the patented Creighton barrage of 3s.

[noteggs]

How about barrage from X?

[GoMuskies]

How about barrage from X?

That would be some welcome patent infringement!

[Xville]

Alright come on...let's get a 6-0 run here

[IM4X]

No Movement on offense. Standing around A joke.

[IM4X]

Coach!!!!!!why is carter shooting more 3s than our good shooters.

[GoMuskies]

They keep giving Carter the ball for some reason.

[RoseyMuskie]

Neither team wants to win..

[Xville]

Why does carter get so much play time its mind boggling to me.

[Blue Blooded-05]

They keep giving Carter the ball for some reason.

Because the defense doesn’t guard him

[GoMuskies]

Serious rock throwing!

[Xville]

Johnson!

[GoMuskies]

Somehow a 1 point game. May as well win!

[Blue Blooded-05]

Where has Kunkel been this half?

[noteggs]

No moral victory. Let’s go boys!

[GoMuskies]

No moral victory. Let’s go boys!

This is not the kind of game where a team can have a moral victory. Been UGLY!

[xu82]

Somehow a 1 point game. May as well win!

Hanging tough against a ranked BE team on the road. It may be rough in patches, but it beats the hell out of what we watched the last couple years. Time to heat up our shooting, take care of the ball and play some D! We can do this!

[IM4X]

Let’s Go X!

[XUBison]

We never shoot well at Creighton. I recall a game back in the TB and JP days, where we shot something like one for 200 from three at Creighton.

[GoMuskies]

Not Free's best day.

[RoseyMuskie]

Why does Steele let Carter continue to shoot threes? At some point, I have to blame the coach.

[X Factor]

So tired of Carter

[IM4X]

Carter gets about 75% credit if X loses today. Just a horrible showing on his part.

[X Factor]

Carter sucks!!!!

[HAAS_U]

I’d rather see one of the other bigs on the court instead of Carter at this point.

[Xville]

Carter is garbage and heavy been garbage since he came to x sorry for all you carter lovers out there. He has to have pictures of Steele in compromising positions to get this much playing time and free rain to shoot threes so much. It's like watching q of the last two years. So freaking sick of it

[HAAS_U]

Carter does it again... disappointing

[XU20]

Omg Carter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[X Factor]

Carter is the LAST guy who should be shooting

[xudash]

Get Carter out of there.

Not the last time this will be posted this season.

[Xville]

Yes let's have carter shoot another fucking 3....what a joke.

[markchal]

I'm a huge Carter defender, he does a lot of little things that go unnoticed. That said, man he was friggin BRUTAL today. Him and Free just totally knee-capped our chances today.

[GoMuskies]

At least we'll cover. Yay.

[stammina0721]

Steele great job so far this year but this loss is on him. Letting Carter take 3 of the last 4 shots and subbing out 3 starters 4 minutes into the game up 17-5. Just can't do that facing a top 15 team on the road

[markchal]

As bad as Carter was playing, why not try Griffin or Stanley as the only F when Free fouled out?

[XUBison]

So many missed opportunities today.

[Xville]

Ugh kunkel....man! Nuts

[HAAS_U]

Kunkel almost did it again

[xu82]

Oh Lordy! Kunkel almost did it again!

[Blue Blooded-05]

Damn

[KFX]

I've seen enough from Carter - an absolute liability.

[HenryMuto]

Wow you could not have asked for a better look a wide open 3. You get the perfect pass from the other team right in your wheelhouse. I really thought that was going in. Oh well can't win them all.

[Xville]

I would love to know these little things that carter does so well to get so much playing time that other forwards cant do. He blows

[RoseyMuskie]

As bad as Carter was playing, why not try Griffin or Stanley as the only F when Free fouled out?

Griffin was not the answer today. Wouldn’t have been opposed to Stanley.

I’m going to point blame at Steele for Carter’s offensive woes. Past the point where Steele needs to put the hard red light on his three point shooting.

[IM4X]

A respectable loss on paper but neither team played all that well and it was a very winnable game if players like Carter didn’t make so many bad decisions that lead to missed 3s and turnovers and weak attempts from 5 feet away. The entire team looked off- maybe from the flight out west.

Just imagine if Carter passed the ball instead of attempting all of those threes.

Steele owns almost as much as Carter for giving him the green light to shoot them.

Carter needs to know better- when you aren’t making baskets- pass!

Steele - like the entire team - didn’t have his best game - he had some bad lineups some of which kept the struggling Carter in there too long... and he apparently didn’t tell Carter (the 8th otr 9th best option for shooting 3s) to pump the breaks on shots from behind the line.

[OTRMUSKIE]

This Xavier team is special. To come so close on the road against a great team and have an off night shooting is good news for this team. Wish they got the win but this team is so damn talented. They are def going to be top 4 beast this year. As far as Carter goes he def needs to stop shooting 3’s. Creighton is a good team but From what I saw we will finish ahead of them. Doug’s Dad is a mediocre coach at best.

[XUGRAD80]

Umm..Steele didn’t miss ANY shots, nor did he make ANY turnovers, or commit ANY fouls. Give it a rest.

They lost by 5 to the 13th ranked team in the country, on the road, in their 1st true road game of the year, without their starting point guard and with their best player having fouled out while having a bad game offensively. They are still 8-1 and 1-1 in the conference. They could have folded and gotten blown out. But they battled to the end and had a chance to send it into OT. I’m disappointed, but not dissatisfied.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

X lost this one largely due to the fouls. Both teams were relatively equal in shooting and rebounding.

[paulxu]

Good effort, but both teams did not shoot well.
The difference ended up being fouls. They had 11, we were whistled for 20.
We outscored them on regular shots, but were 5-7 from the line, while they were 14-20.
Was a little surprised that we didn't shoot somewhat better after the explosion of the last game.

Let's get back on track. Can be a great year.

[xu82]

Umm..Steele didn’t miss ANY shots, nor did he make ANY turnovers, or commit ANY fouls. Give it a rest.

They lost by 5 to the 13th ranked team in the country, on the road, in their 1st true road game of the year, without their starting point guard and with their best player having fouled out while having a bad game offensively. They are still 8-1 and 1-1 in the conference. They could have folded and gotten blown out. But they battled to the end and had a chance to send it into OT. I’m disappointed, but not dissatisfied.

Agreed! Disappointing, but NOT a horrible or unexpected outcome.

[xavierj]

I have to believe that this Xavier team will not have many games they shoot 25% from 3. A ton were wide open looks. Xavier wasn’t getting a whistle inside either so they had to take what they could get. Freemantle played really bad on offense and defense and he has to be able to bring it for this team to reach it’s true potential. He was weak with the ball and got worked by the Creighton bigs. Carter while he does a good job playing defense, he just can’t score and that is not ideal. Would be nice if Stanley could be that guy eventually to take his minutes and bring Carter off the bench for 15 to 20 minutes. Griffen isn’t the answer from what I can see. He is ok for a few minutes here and there, but he isn’t a high level talent that can play a lot of minutes and be consistent. The coaches had the right game plan, but it wasn’t executed. Make shots!

[N67ER]

A respectable loss on paper but neither team played all that well and it was a very winnable game if players like Carter didn’t make so many bad decisions that lead to missed 3s and turnovers and weak attempts from 5 feet away. The entire team looked off- maybe from the flight out west.

Just imagine if Carter passed the ball instead of attempting all of those threes.

Steele owns almost as much as Carter for giving him the green light to shoot them.

Carter needs to know better- when you aren’t making baskets- pass!

Steele - like the entire team - didn’t have his best game - he had some bad lineups some of which kept the struggling Carter in there too long... and he apparently didn’t tell Carter (the 8th otr 9th best option for shooting 3s) to pump the breaks on shots from behind the line.

If Carter is the goat, why not equal criticism for Freemantle? Virtually same stats today. Neither had a good game. Freemantle fouled out and wasn’t available when really needed at the end. His defense is not up to snuff yet, even when Steele assigns Carter to the opposition’s best big man. Love Feemantle’s game, but he is not Superman yet.

I simply do not understand, and certainly don’t agree with all the negative comments about Carter. Our good shooters didn’t shoot well and Creighton won, at home, at the free throw line. Pretty standard story don’t you think? I’ll put my money on X in the rematch at Cintas.

[xudash]

This post only speaks to the matter of team chemistry.

I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but after the game ended, Scruggs and Kunkel came up to one another and hugged each other with a big smile, as though to say, “almost; nice try.”

The game was all about everything that you guys have mentioned already. But I really like our outlook moving forward, because these guys truly are dialed into one another and playing for each other.

[X Factor]

If Carter is the goat, why not equal criticism for Freemantle? Virtually same stats today. Neither had a good game. Freemantle fouled out and wasn’t available when really needed at the end. His defense is not up to snuff yet, even when Steele assigns Carter to the opposition’s best big man. Love Feemantle’s game, but he is not Superman yet.

I simply do not understand, and certainly don’t agree with all the negative comments about Carter. Our good shooters didn’t shoot well and Creighton won, at home, at the free throw line. Pretty standard story don’t you think? I’ll put my money on X in the rematch at Cintas.

For one, Freemantle is a sophomore, but has had BIG games in his young career. Carter is a 5th year senior who still can't hit the broadside of a barn from 5 feet away. He's shooting 41% from the field and 22% from three. He is a total liability on offense, and he's playing almost 30 minutes a game.

Was Zach great today? Definitely not, but that's when you would hope your 5th year senior steps up and plays at a higher level.

[XUGRAD80]

This post only speaks to the matter of team chemistry.

I don’t know if you noticed it or not, but after the game ended, Scruggs and Kunkel came up to one another and hugged each other with a big smile, as though to say, “almost; nice try.”

The game was all about everything that you guys have mentioned already. But I really like our outlook moving forward, because these guys truly are dialed into one another and playing for each other.

Noticed, and thought the same thing. Doubt that would have happened last year.

[RoseyMuskie]

The weird thing about Carter is that I don’t think his minutes are undeserved within his role. He’s a + defender and good rebounder.

I think what’s frustrating is that when we see him shoot, he’s playing outside his role. And you expect a senior to understand role.

[bleedXblue]

You don't get opportunities like that against good teams very often. Huge miss for X today.

[bleedXblue]

The weird thing about Carter is that I don’t think his minutes are undeserved within his role. He’s a + defender and good rebounder.

I think what’s frustrating is that when we see him shoot, he’s playing outside his role. And you expect a senior to understand role.

hes not a clutch guy with the ball in his hands. Just doesnt have the moxy

[RoseyMuskie]

hes not a clutch guy with the ball in his hands. Just doesnt have the moxy

His confidence is shot, that’s for sure.

[xukeith]

His confidence is shot, that’s for sure.

So do we bench Carter for Griffin or Stanley? Like Q Goodin last year, he can't shoot. He hustles and plays tough defense. But he can't hit the bottom of an ocean. He did this last year too for a large chunk of the season. Play him minutes in 1st half and maybe 10 minutes in 2nd half. Get Griffin in there for the rest of this season. At LEAST do this against Villanova, Creighton, UConn, and Providence. X will be more productive.

[xukeith]

I'm a huge Carter defender, he does a lot of little things that go unnoticed. That said, man he was friggin BRUTAL today. Him and Free just totally knee-capped our chances today.

He did dunk off on foot early in 1st half.

[MHettel]

I gave Carter a full season last year, on a team that didn't play well as a unit. Selfish players around him.

This year, he's had 9 games. His offense has been horrible. Like probably one of the least offensively efficient players in College.

His Defense is fine. It's good actually. Stays in front of his man. Helps out. gets some blocks and rebounds. Crafty defensively.

but WHY will a coach simply refuse to play an offensive minded player that isn't there defensively? Is it because their defensive liabilities outweigh their offensive contributions?

If so, then why wouldn't the opposite apply? Carter is a "+" on defense, but seriously a "2x minus" on offense. And they run shit for him. He takes 3's.

Honestly against Marquette, we have a 5th year senior that went 2 for 6 from the line and fouled a 3 point shooter. All in the last couple minutes. I'd like to see more Stanley, and could imagine a scenario where Miles see's 6-7 of the minutes that are currently allocated to Carter. He has had sufficient opportunity. I have not seen the needed production, nor have I seen anything that would indicate that it's imminent.

There is a role for Carter, and I don't mind if he starts. But 20 minutes max, right now. And that's subject to increases if he playes well, or decreases if someone steps up. No freebies on this team. We saw that last year with Q, and we paid for it.

[whopper]

this is not a knock..3 years ago O'Mara gave up minutes for Kanter and everybody benefited. Stanley made at least 2 left handed moves for baskets today against their big man and Bishop or Mahoney that Carter never would do (he may be able to but wont now. This is not a knock on Carter as i am his biggest fan but 20 min a game in Big East puts you in elite company. I also like the defensive boards Griffin pulls down and teams are attacking Zach now and he must be protedted until (maybe) next year when Miles and Stanley are both ready to play 25+ min. I actually thought that last year James could have 10 min a game for Carter and Naj and look what he is doing this year.

[American X]

1) I am not going to sweat losing at a ranked Creighton. For all the flaws, Xavier was still in a position to win at the end. Learn from it and move on.

2) The defensive effort against a top offensive squad was respectable. It is good to know that it is there as the season progresses.

3) The inexperience and lack of chemistry (yet) came through on the first road trip. This will improve.

4) Piling on, I cannot buy into Jason Carter as the primary offensive option. The list of players more skilled at getting the ball into the basket is pretty much the entire roster. Granting the defense left him open, they still need to create better opportunities. This is on both coaches and players.

5) With the chance to take the lead down 56-57, Carter taking the shot is unforgiveable. Really, just anything else.

6) Rest up and enjoy the week off for Christmas. Don't get Covid and no strip clubs.

[AviatorX]

Jason Carter's ORTG is 110, so he is nowhere near "one of the least efficient players in college." That 110 is up from 95 last year and higher than Scruggs and Naji's efficiency rating last season (for understandable reasons). He also has a lower usage rate than everyone on the team who has played meaningful minutes other than Colby Jones (who is basically at the same level). There is some serious overreacting going on here. Carter was bad against Creighton, but I'm not sure what people are watching who want to swap his minutes out with Stanley or Miles (!). Carter is a low usage guy who brings toughness, defense and rebounding and doesn't turn it over, all things this team definitely needs if you're willing to look at the season that's unfolding as opposed to a couple of 4 minute stretches.

I look forward to the replies to this acting as if I suggested his jersey should be retired.

[XUGRAD80]

There were at least a half dozen turnovers and missed assignments that can be directly contributed to youth, inexperience, and lack of practice time together. IMO this team is light years ahead of where I expected them to be at this point. I expected them to be a tough team to beat near the end of the season, but they are already there. Not sure how much more they will improve as the season goes on, but baring any injuries/sickness to key personal, or COVID imposed shit downs, this team will continue to improve, mature, and get better during the 2nd half. Realistically, how many of us expected 8-1 at this point? I know I didn’t.

Merry Christmas Xavier Nation!

[markchal]

Jason Carter's ORTG is 110, so he is nowhere near "one of the least efficient players in college." That 110 is up from 95 last year and higher than Scruggs and Naji's efficiency rating last season (for understandable reasons). He also has a lower usage rate than everyone on the team who has played meaningful minutes other than Colby Jones (who is basically at the same level). There is some serious overreacting going on here. Carter was bad against Creighton, but I'm not sure what people are watching who want to swap his minutes out with Stanley or Miles (!). Carter is a low usage guy who brings toughness, defense and rebounding and doesn't turn it over, all things this team definitely needs if you're willing to look at the season that's unfolding as opposed to a couple of 4 minute stretches.

I look forward to the replies to this acting as if I suggested his jersey should be retired.

Creighton was not a good showing for Carter, and because he blew some wide open shots at key moments, it's going to highlight his performance a little more. He was left wide open on a couple of of those 3s, he just has to make one of them to help keep defenses honest, and he can (and has) done it before. Freemantle played equally poor against Creighton, and some of his fouls are just plain dumb. I know he's a sophomore, but he's our only legitimate inside threat, and our offense looks much better with him on the floor, so he needs to play smarter.

I think it's clear Carter should stay in the starting lineup, one bad game doesn't change that. Defense, passing, rebounding is what we need, there are enough scorers in our starting 5. I do think there's a case to maybe bring Stanley in after the first 4 to mix it up some (and please no more hockey subs!).

[paulxu]

Somehow it seems like we should be pushing Colby Jones to be more part of offensive sets.
He's always pass first, but has the best shooting % of anyone playing 10+ minutes (60%).

[N67ER]

Jason Carter's ORTG is 110, so he is nowhere near "one of the least efficient players in college." That 110 is up from 95 last year and higher than Scruggs and Naji's efficiency rating last season (for understandable reasons). He also has a lower usage rate than everyone on the team who has played meaningful minutes other than Colby Jones (who is basically at the same level). There is some serious overreacting going on here. Carter was bad against Creighton, but I'm not sure what people are watching who want to swap his minutes out with Stanley or Miles (!). Carter is a low usage guy who brings toughness, defense and rebounding and doesn't turn it over, all things this team definitely needs if you're willing to look at the season that's unfolding as opposed to a couple of 4 minute stretches.

I look forward to the replies to this acting as if I suggested his jersey should be retired.

I agree completely about Carter.

The criticism of Carter’s last three point attempt is just flat wrong. In his career in college, he is nearly a 30% shooter from deep. Who is going to tell a 30% shooter not to take a wide open shot? That makes no sense. If you’re going to criticize his shooting, 0-6, then what do you say about Kunkel who was one for six. Should he have passed up his last three because he had missed four in a row? Get off Carter’s back!

[American X]

Travis Steele is just bringing back the traditional post-finals, pre-Christmas letdown game.

[IM4X]

If Carter is the goat, why not equal criticism for Freemantle? Virtually same stats today. Neither had a good game. Freemantle fouled out and wasn’t available when really needed at the end. His defense is not up to snuff yet, even when Steele assigns Carter to the opposition’s best big man. Love Feemantle’s game, but he is not Superman yet.

I simply do not understand, and certainly don’t agree with all the negative comments about Carter. Our good shooters didn’t shoot well and Creighton won, at home, at the free throw line. Pretty standard story don’t you think? I’ll put my money on X in the rematch at Cintas.

Others have already responded to your post with points I was was going to make.

I am not a hater of Carter. But if a player is playing as poorly as he was and making as many bad decisions as he was - you have to pull him. A fifth year senior shouldn’t be making so many bad decisions and mental mistakes.i know he wants to help the team but why is he taking so many threes when he is not even one of the 7 best shooters on the team AND when he knows he is having such an off night.

He played 32 minutes - only 4 rebounds - never was able to draw a foul and get to the line. He was 0-5 from 3 and had a five footer that clanked hard off the backboard. He had 3 turnovers including back to back ones that would have been bad even for a freshman. In a game where not many (if any) X players played well, he was the one that pulled the team down the most with his poor choices and execution.

To be fair, he has been a solid contributor in a number of games this season. If he plays well (like any player) let him keep playing. Unfortunately, Carter gets in his own head sometimes. When that happens, he starts making bad decisions. As a fifth year senior, he should understand his strengths and what the smarter decisions are that will help the team. There is a serous case of bad decision making when a big (who shoots well under 30%) chooses to take five 3s in a game, while at the same time can’t seem to find a way to get to the line once.

It’s not about hating on a player, I love the kids hustle. It’s about calling out a player when the mistakes get to the point of being egregious during a game. That is when a coach needs pull the player and help get his head back on straight.

Freemantle had a pretty bad game too, including some stupid fouls. Still, he had one more point and one more rebound and at least got to the line in 9 less minutes.

Stanley had 3 more points than Carter and also found a way to get to the line.

[IM4X]

I agree completely about Carter.

The criticism of Carter’s last three point attempt is just flat wrong. In his career in college, he is nearly a 30% shooter from deep. Who is going to tell a 30% shooter not to take a wide open shot? That makes no sense. If you’re going to criticize his shooting, 0-6, then what do you say about Kunkel who was one for six. Should he have passed up his last three because he had missed four in a row? Get off Carter’s back!

Making less than 30% from three is not the definition of a good 3 point shooter. He is not the guy on the team you want taking so many threes. He is a forward who is decent enough to take the occasional three. Kunkel is a much better three point shooter as is Johnson and Scruggs and Tandy and Witcher and Jones and evening Freemantle. Heck there is literally no one on the team who has taken a three that is worse than Carter is at shooting threes. Carter should feel he can take one or two a game, but he also needs to understand the team does not benefit when the worst three point shooter is taking 4 or 5 or 6 a game.

I hope Carter comes back next game playing smart and having a great game, but he had a bad game yesterday and a really big part of it had to do with his poor decisions.

[xukeith]

Making less than 30% from three is not the definition of a good 3 point shooter. He is not the guy on the team you want taking so many threes. He is a forward who is decent enough to take the occasional three. Kunkel is a much better three point shooter as is Johnson and Scruggs and Tandy and Witcher and Jones and evening Freemantle. Heck there is literally no one on the team who has taken a three that is worse than Carter is at shooting threes. Carter should feel he can take one or two a game, but he also needs to understand the team does not benefit when the worst three point shooter is taking 4 or 5 or 6 a game.

I hope Carter comes back next game playing smart and having a great game, but he had a bad game yesterday and a really big part of it had to do with his poor decisions.

Wilcher has not scored one point for X. For all we know is he shoots 100% in practice.

[MHettel]

Jason Carter's ORTG is 110, so he is nowhere near "one of the least efficient players in college." That 110 is up from 95 last year and higher than Scruggs and Naji's efficiency rating last season (for understandable reasons). He also has a lower usage rate than everyone on the team who has played meaningful minutes other than Colby Jones (who is basically at the same level). There is some serious overreacting going on here. Carter was bad against Creighton, but I'm not sure what people are watching who want to swap his minutes out with Stanley or Miles (!). Carter is a low usage guy who brings toughness, defense and rebounding and doesn't turn it over, all things this team definitely needs if you're willing to look at the season that's unfolding as opposed to a couple of 4 minute stretches.

I look forward to the replies to this acting as if I suggested his jersey should be retired.


Do me a favor. Explain ORTG. Without looking or referring to anything. Make sure to note all the things that go into this.


See, you cant. Because it's a freaking black box. Its an overly complicated metric that people don't understand, but point to it as if they did. Take a look.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

I actually don't need a black box to explain what I'm seeing with my own 2 eyes.

Carter cant score inside against any size whatsoever. Carter cannot shoot outside of the paint. Carter cannot make 3's. Carter doesn't get to the line, and Carter is average when he does.

He scores off of these little inside passes when the defense is closing on someone else. That's it. That's all he can do offensively. He's made some nice passes when he should have shot, but he's got no confidence, and those passes aren't converted either.

As mentioned, I do like his rebounding, and he can make some defensive plays. But lets not forget the boneheaded "fouling a 3 point shooter when you are up by 4" moment against Marquette. Coupled with his 2 of 6 FT shooting. The only person who liked that performance was Kunkel.

look, I know Carter will play. But I'm not in favor of 28-30 minutes a night. I'd cut him down to 20, until he shows he can produce offensively.

[AviatorX]

Do me a favor. Explain ORTG. Without looking or referring to anything. Make sure to note all the things that go into this.


See, you cant. Because it's a freaking black box. Its an overly complicated metric that people don't understand, but point to it as if they did. Take a look.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

I actually don't need a black box to explain what I'm seeing with my own 2 eyes.

Carter cant score inside against any size whatsoever. Carter cannot shoot outside of the paint. Carter cannot make 3's. Carter doesn't get to the line, and Carter is average when he does.

He scores off of these little inside passes when the defense is closing on someone else. That's it. That's all he can do offensively. He's made some nice passes when he should have shot, but he's got no confidence, and those passes aren't converted either.

As mentioned, I do like his rebounding, and he can make some defensive plays. But lets not forget the boneheaded "fouling a 3 point shooter when you are up by 4" moment against Marquette. Coupled with his 2 of 6 FT shooting. The only person who liked that performance was Kunkel.

look, I know Carter will play. But I'm not in favor of 28-30 minutes a night. I'd cut him down to 20, until he shows he can produce offensively.

No question ORTG is more complex than either one of us can grasp, but the general idea is how many points do you produce based on the amount of possessions you use. If I apply it evenly I can make some conclusions from it. You're welcome to call that me pointing to it and pretending I understand something I don't.

Anyway, you said Carter is one of the least efficient players in college, and based on the same efficiency rating applied equally to all college players, he's actually above average, so forgive me if I don't immediately defer to your personal observations.

[xu82]

Travis Steele is just bringing back the traditional post-finals, pre-Christmas letdown game.

Some traditions are better than others.

This one SUCKS!

[MHettel]

No question ORTG is more complex than either one of us can grasp, but the general idea is how many points do you produce based on the amount of possessions you use. If I apply it evenly I can make some conclusions from it. You're welcome to call that me pointing to it and pretending I understand something I don't.

Anyway, you said Carter is one of the least efficient players in college, and based on the same efficiency rating applied equally to all college players, he's actually above average, so forgive me if I don't immediately defer to your personal observations.

Since I'm watching the games, and can put his performance into context, I'll go with that over some black box metrics that tells me that Im not seeing what I'm seeing.

Hey, I'm a stat junkie. Through and Through. But only when I can comprehend it.

Best stat ever is the QB rating. It tops out at like 145.7 or some random shit like that. So, if a QB was already at the max of 145.7 for a game, and then he throws a 99yd TD pass he actually wouldn't not have had a better game. And people talk about QB rating as if it matters.

WAR for baseball is kinda similar to me. They are pinpointing how many wore "wins" (or losses) a player would have if he were playing vs an "average player" (whatever the hell that means) was playing instead.

I think Carter is bad on offense because I watch him try to do it.

[Straightshooter]

It was Carter's 3 that chilled UC and gave us momentum down the stretch in that one. When X tried to go inside, their big man was a hindrance, getting blocks and changing shots. The three wasn't dropping, not a bad loss.

[xu82]

It was Carter's 3 that chilled UC and gave us momentum down the stretch in that one. When X tried to go inside, their big man was a hindrance, getting blocks and changing shots. The three wasn't dropping, not a bad loss.

Our inside post up offense (and DEFENSE) still concerns me a bit against teams that bang around. Sometimes the long ball just won’t go in and you need that reliable inside game. We are a little more finesse that brute force. One reason I’m glad we have Stanley on the current roster. More BIG bodies will be helpful moving forward in the BE.

Sad to lose, but not a terrible loss on the road to a ranked team while missing our PG due to Covid protocol. That could have gone either way. This is going to be a crazy ass year, and I’ll just keep looking for positives.

[MHettel]

It was Carter's 3 that chilled UC and gave us momentum down the stretch in that one. When X tried to go inside, their big man was a hindrance, getting blocks and changing shots. The three wasn't dropping, not a bad loss.

By the way, I'm not saying it was a bad loss. Creighton is a good team with length, depth and shooting. Defensively, we held them far under their average in a game that should have been high scoring given the tempo preference of both teams. We lost because of offensive efficiency. If you shoot 35% and can be in the game down to the last minute, then you did a few things well.

It's also pretty obvious that we have fallen in love with the 3 ball. Which is great when you make 12+ and shoot nearly 40%. You don't see many teams that lose games when the 3's are going up and going in at a high rate. But it's a "live by the sword die by the sword" approach. We need to find some more balance. And that balance is at the Free Throw Line.

32 3 Point attempts yesterday vs 7 Free Throw attempts. Over the last 11 years, we have averaged 18 3s and 22 FTs per game. THAT is a winning combination.

I'm calling for Scruggs, Johnson, Stanley, Tandy, Jones and Odom to attack the rack. Find some more balance, find some more wins.

Still Bullish on this team

[X Factor]

By the way, I'm not saying it was a bad loss. Creighton is a good team with length, depth and shooting. Defensively, we held them far under their average in a game that should have been high scoring given the tempo preference of both teams. We lost because of offensive efficiency. If you shoot 35% and can be in the game down to the last minute, then you did a few things well.

It's also pretty obvious that we have fallen in love with the 3 ball. Which is great when you make 12+ and shoot nearly 40%. You don't see many teams that lose games when the 3's are going up and going in at a high rate. But it's a "live by the sword die by the sword" approach. We need to find some more balance. And that balance is at the Free Throw Line.

32 3 Point attempts yesterday vs 7 Free Throw attempts. Over the last 11 years, we have averaged 18 3s and 22 FTs per game. THAT is a winning combination.

I'm calling for Scruggs, Johnson, Stanley, Tandy, Jones and Odom to attack the rack. Find some more balance, find some more wins.

Still Bullish on this team

Scruggs was trying to attack the basket, but kept getting assaulted with no call from the ref.

[X-band '01]

Travis Steele is just bringing back the traditional post-finals, pre-Christmas letdown game.

Yeah, they strayed from that tradition last year by winning at TCU. It literally fucked the whole planet the following year.

[Masterofreality]

Do me a favor. Explain ORTG. Without looking or referring to anything. Make sure to note all the things that go into this.


See, you cant. Because it's a freaking black box. Its an overly complicated metric that people don't understand, but point to it as if they did. Take a look.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

I actually don't need a black box to explain what I'm seeing with my own 2 eyes.

Carter cant score inside against any size whatsoever. Carter cannot shoot outside of the paint. Carter cannot make 3's. Carter doesn't get to the line, and Carter is average when he does.

He scores off of these little inside passes when the defense is closing on someone else. That's it. That's all he can do offensively. He's made some nice passes when he should have shot, but he's got no confidence, and those passes aren't converted either.

As mentioned, I do like his rebounding, and he can make some defensive plays. But lets not forget the boneheaded "fouling a 3 point shooter when you are up by 4" moment against Marquette. Coupled with his 2 of 6 FT shooting. The only person who liked that performance was Kunkel.

look, I know Carter will play. But I'm not in favor of 28-30 minutes a night. I'd cut him down to 20, until he shows he can produce offensively.

Agree 100% with Hett. Give some of Carter's minutes to Stanley. He has to get himself oriented. I know, you guys will roast me with "Well, Stanley hasn't "earned" those minutes. Ha! Frankly, Carter hasn't either. But I'm sure he's got tons of practice 'Xavier Way points banked. I'm going back to what I said last year. There are Gamers and then there are practice players. Carter is the latter.

Carter's last 4 minutes vs Marquette was a case study in choking and poor decisions. Then his game vs Creighton was just plain awful. Dude was 3-10 from the field and took more shots than anyone else on the team other than Nate Johnson. For all of you who defend him with "But his defense", welp. Mahoney from Creighton undressed him every time they were matched up, and I think that Mahoney was Carter's man. Mahoney scored 13. Carter may be a decent "system" defender, but on an island he's lousy.
Enough. Carter deserves 15-20 minutes per game. That. Is. All.

[Lloyd Braun]

I actually think Carter is a really good 3 point shooter from the middle, straight on. Anyone have that stat or am I making it up?

[whopper]

I actually think Carter is a really good 3 point shooter from the middle, straight on. Anyone have that stat or am I making it up?

I think that once Big East play comes around it will be all hands on deck as Zach is too valuable on offense to always be in foul trouble. You need Griffin and Carter to take the other team's main offensive inside theat (and Miles and Stanley looks stong enough) because we need 28-30 of Zach for offense. I see good in all the other forwards and there are 50 minutes to split between Carter, Griffin, Stanley (and Miles) depending on our needs. It will be a coaching challenge and i think Stanley will surprise. i do think that EVERYBODY including Carter has to play as if all the minutes are up for grabs and there is no need to worry about foul trouble. And there may be times we only get 20 min from Zach so everyone has to be ready

[MHettel]

I think that once Big East play comes around it will be all hands on deck as Zach is too valuable on offense to always be in foul trouble. You need Griffin and Carter to take the other team's main offensive inside theat (and Miles and Stanley looks stong enough) because we need 28-30 of Zach for offense. I see good in all the other forwards and there are 50 minutes to split between Carter, Griffin, Stanley (and Miles) depending on our needs. It will be a coaching challenge and i think Stanley will surprise. i do think that EVERYBODY including Carter has to play as if all the minutes are up for grabs and there is no need to worry about foul trouble. And there may be times we only get 20 min from Zach so everyone has to be ready

Part of the reason we have to rely on Zach so much for interior offense is because.....(I'm just gonna leave you hanging)

[whopper]

your analysis is always good. I have been watching(and playing) for 50 years (pandemic killed over 60 hoops-we had good players). I am guessing that you realize that Zach is the only big man who can get his own shot as clock running out, get ball on rim for offensive rebound (Griffin and maybe Carter) has mid range game, etc. Griffin has been a decent rebounder and Carter a little of everything but nothing really good. Stanley impressed me with 2 one on one moves against Creighton (over the 7 ft and Bishop) and I believe that a low post 3(think Adrian Dantley) could be a threat to get own shot with Zach out. If you get off a shot that means it can made, a foul occurs, an soft shot can be rebounded and a pass made (Stanley had at least one good interior pass). Miles may have a. role..we will need all hands on deck and you could see a game where Zach has 8 and 4(like Creighton) where we have a chance to win. Scruggs at times plays a lot one a 3 as well