Game Thread: Xavier v. Eastern Kentucky (11/30/2020)

[paulxu]

https://www.brickeconomy.com/resources/images/sets/lego-8804-3_large.jpgVS. https://texlex.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83459826969e201a73d8bdeef970d-600wi

XAVIER UNIVERSITY MUSKETEERS (3-0, 0-0 BIG EAST)
EASTERN KENTUCKY COLONELS (2-0, 0-0 OHIO VALLEY CONFERENCE)
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2020 AT 7 P.M. ET
CINTAS CENTER IN CINCINNATI, OHIO

TV, RADIO & LIVE STATS

Television: FS1 with play-by-play from Matt Schumacker and analysis from Nick Bahe.
Radio: 55KRC-AM with play-by-play from XU Hall of Famer and former Musketeer standout Joe Sunderman ('79). Analysis will be provided by Xavier Hall of Famer and XU all-time leading scorer Byron Larkin ('88).
Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com and fan stats at GoXavier.com.

[Lloyd Braun]

Line opened at X -13, currently -15. That seems like a ton of points after two 1 point games.

[waggy]

Wonder if Fox is going to actually televise game.

[GoMuskies]

Line opened at X -13, currently -15. That seems like a ton of points after two 1 point games.

Agree, but then again we're talking about Eastern Kentucky.

[Lloyd Braun]

Agree, but then again we're talking about Eastern Kentucky.

They’re undefeated!

[GIMMFD]

They’re undefeated!

Until we play them, we cover, I have a feeling we'll cover.

[Lloyd Braun]

We may cover but there’s not much indication that we will. EKU is not good but they are an odd team and it’s been an odd week. I could see X going up by 20+ and EKU scoring a bunch to Backdoor cover.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Line opened at X -13, currently -15. That seems like a ton of points after two 1 point games.

I thought so too but I think EKU is a lot closer to Oakland than Bradley or Toledo.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Then again, Oakland did take Michigan to OT yesterday, so who knows!

[Lloyd Braun]

Up to -16.5 points now so it appears the betting public agrees that X will win big.

[OTRMUSKIE]

A lot of team struggling early bc there was no pre season. I give it 4 more games before we have a good idea how this X team is going to be. Too many new pieces. I like what I have seen so far. When they start to click this team will be scary.

[surfxu]

Should be an interesting kind of match up. EKU competes by turning teams over and creating fast break opportunities. Full court press 100% of the time. It will be really interesting to see how Odom handles the constant ball swiping and trapping. We played this team/style 2 years ago and managed over 25 turnovers I believe. That being said, size and athleticism should overwhelm. Defense during that game 2 years ago for EKU was more of the "el Matador" defense and X was like 80% from inside the arc so getting to the rim for X will probably be 90% of the offense in this game. If X can keep the turnovers down then this game may be over fairly early. EKU's best/main offense is run outs on created turnovers. I don't think this is the game that we're going to say "wow, outside shooting is MUCH better this year" because if X takes a bunch of outside shots then we're probably not taking advantage of the "best" shot available for Xavier, but if X is up by 15-20 points with 5 minutes left then Travis may give the OK to let 'em fly from deep, and if those shots start falling it will likely be a run-a-way... but ball security is 100% the key to this game.

[GoMuskies]

Should be an interesting kind of match up. EKU competes by turning teams over and creating fast break opportunities. Full court press 100% of the time.

If THAT's their strategy, I don't feel too good about the Colonels' chances. I took a small position X -16.5.

[GIMMFD]

If THAT's their strategy, I don't feel too good about the Colonels' chances. I took a small position X -16.5.

Same, not because of any of that, but because I'm a man of my word and I said we'd cover lmfao.

[IM4X]

The guys calling this game are spot on: we need to slow it down and play our pace- Steele needs to make that clear and to not force quick shots—— like last year... come on coach...

[xukeith]

X is playing a tad timid. Need to push it. Give Zach the ball.

[xuphan]

Same, not because of any of that, but because I'm a man of my word and I said we'd cover lmfao.

0-2 already for Scruggs from Deep. Come on Paul

[xu82]

Hoping for a career game from Freemantle . Don’t get baited into quick 3’s.

[IM4X]

How does the coach know that we are going to be pressed and have defenders be so agrees and yet the team looks clueless about how to handle it

[paulxu]

The mid-range jump shot is dead.

[Xville]

7 turnovers in 8 minutes...awesome

[IM4X]

0-2 already for Scruggs from Deep. Come on Paul

He is forcing shots- We can only hope Steele is on it and speaking to him about being more patient and working the ball around for a better shot.

[xu82]

Maybe we can could them all out. :-)

That pressure should lead to fouls and easy baskets.

[paulxu]

The mid-range jump shot is dead.

Thank you Zach.

[xu82]

Quick 3’s are just fine with me..........


......if they go in!

[IM4X]

One thing that is Impressive: our guys are taking it in the lane and able to draw the foul.

[Smooth]

Drive until EKU's entire team fouls out. That is my strategy.

[IM4X]

Can’t leave #5 open to shoot 3s. He’s too good.

[paulxu]

How many lay ups have they made over our bigs?

[Smooth]

Tandy might score 40 tonight.

[xuphan]

Tandy might score 40 tonight.

Hope so! 25 percent from 3 so far has that last year feel to it.

[IM4X]

More like it - slowing it down and working it around.

[xuphan]

More like it - slowing it down and working it around.

Exactly how our offense should be run. Keep it up X

[Xville]

Man zach and tandy are going to be fun to watch the next couple of years!

[noteggs]

Man zach and tandy are going to be fun to watch the next couple of years!

With out a doubt!

[xu82]

Drive until EKU's entire team fouls out. That is my strategy.

I love a good power play, myself!

[XUGRAD80]

They just need to cut the turnovers down.....14 in the 1st half!

[IM4X]

A little lazy with those last few times down the floor (Kyky and Johnson) ... but otherwise a pretty solid final 7 minutes of the half.

[xu82]

Exactly how our offense should be run. Keep it up X

I took the puppy out to poop and we went on a run. I’ll go stand in the snow if that helps. Tiny snowflakes in the air. Atlanta is already half shut down, so maybe we won’t have mass PANIC! (But hard to say......)

[Smooth]

zach and ManTandy are going to be fun to watch the next couple of years!

That's how nicknames are made.

[IM4X]

What a phenomenal halftime show... if you’re a UConn fan.

[noteggs]

They just need to cut the turnovers down.....14 in the 1st half!

True. Think they are figuring out the press. Also, Paul needs to slow down.

[xuphan]

True. Think they are figuring out the press. Also, Paul needs to slow down.

TandyCandy looking good so far. Fremantle is looking good too.

[IM4X]

A little help guys breaking the press.

[xudash]

Anyone want to declare that a good time out, used for an ass chewing and wake up call?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Our guards should def be able to break a press. Steele was obviously not happy with that start. Hope he got it addressed.

[IM4X]

Slow it down!

[D-West & PO-Z]

What a nice drive by Odom there.

[N67ER]

Where’s the love for Carter? Leading rebounder again with a plus of 5 points.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Where’s the love for Carter? Leading rebounder again with a plus of 5 points.

Carter doesnt get much love but hes been a beast on the boards this year. Been big time so far in that regard.

[IM4X]

1. Work the damn ball inside
2. Guys need to be better positioned to help break the press... players are not helping either Carter or Freemantle needs to be hanging at midcourt to help out. It is absolutely useless that they both stand at the low post waiting around. Get guys in the right place and EK will pay for pressing us.

[KabeX]

Good Lord my 6th graders break a press better. They learned you don't beat the press with a dribble.

[paulxu]

Maybe we should work on what to do when double teamed?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I mean it def doesnt look pretty but we are doing better at breaking it and they are fouling us a ton. We will be shooting a lot of FTs the rest of the way. LEts hope we make them pay for that.

[IM4X]

Drive! Drive! Drive!

[IM4X]

King is a heck of a player- nice tough for a big guy!

[Xville]

18 effing turnovers....absolutely terrible

[IM4X]

There we go- finally Carter helps out at midcourt

[X Factor]

Carter sucks

[D-West & PO-Z]

Griffin needs some more playing time

[xu82]

Praying we get hot from the FT line. That could very well be the difference.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Carter sucks

This is such a bad take.

[X Factor]

Team still can't shoot...4-16 from three

[KabeX]

I know we're short handed and I hope Jones and Wilcher are as advertised, but we play like this against good teams we're gonna get rolled.

[X Factor]

Why? He literally let his man drive right by him for a dunk, and then on the other end he missed a point blank layup. Dudes a 5th year senior and is so inconsistent.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Carter sucks

11 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3-6 from the field 1-2 from 3, and 4-4 from the FT line.

Averaging 10 rebound per game through the first 3. Arguably been one of our most important players to this point.

Again, bad take.

[IM4X]

Carter plays hard- but he struggles to make simple layups and he isn’t defending all that well.

[Xville]

I know we're short handed and I hope Jones and Wilcher are as advertised, but we play like this against good teams we're gonna get rolled.

Yep....bad turnovers, cant shoot 3s, let medicore teams hang around...gee where have I seen and heard this before?

[X Factor]

EKU is sub 200 in Kenpom's rankings. They're not good.

[IM4X]

Scruggs laughing after making a really stupid mistake. Come on Paul!

[Xville]

11 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3-6 from the field 1-2 from 3, and 4-4 from the FT line.

Averaging 10 rebound per game through the first 3. Arguably been one of our most important players to this point.

Again, bad take.

Hes fine, but I still don't think he is be material, at least not as a starter. Yeah hes looks fine against mac and ovc.teama...that's the level he is.

[X Factor]

11 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 3-6 from the field 1-2 from 3, and 4-4 from the FT line.

Averaging 10 rebound per game through the first 3. Arguably been one of our most important players to this point.

Again, bad take.

Coming into tonight he was averaging less than 5 points per game. Way too inconsistent and can't make a damn layup.

[KabeX]

This game is very losable.

[X-band '01]

Anyone got any recommendations for bleach to drink?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Coming into tonight he was averaging less than 5 points per game. Way too inconsistent and can't make a damn layup.

Your entire take is based off how many points her scores which is so short sighted.

If that is the only thing you base it off of then sure he sucks lol.

[KabeX]

We beat the 3 up guards then back off. I don't get it. Attack the freakin rack!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Will we be lucky again tonight?

[KabeX]

No box outs there. C'mon!

[D-West & PO-Z]

2 layups in a row for Carter. What do ya know. 15 points.

[IM4X]

Slow it down coach!!!

[Xville]

Odom is so effing quick...yeezus what a stud

[Blue Blooded-05]

Calling Carter “quiet”

Announcers are clearly not reading this thread

[xu82]

Anyone got any recommendations for bleach to drink?

Are Tide Pods out of fashion?

[X Factor]

He's 6'8...he makes layups harder than they should be. Im sorry, I just don't think he's a BE level 30+ minute type player. He would be an excellent role player.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Carter another 10 rebounds. 15, 10, and 4. 5-9 from the field.

I hope he "sucks" for us all year long!

[whopper]

i feel we give a lot of long and intermediate range offensive rebounds..when the ball goes up for grabs we probably get 1 out of 3. There have been 3 times EKU was on their heels with save after save and yet kept posession

[D-West & PO-Z]

He's 6'8...he makes layups harder than they should be. Im sorry, I just don't think he's a BE level 30+ minute type player. He would be an excellent role player.

I wouldnt disagree he about him not being a 30+ min BE player.

I disagree with anyone saying he sucks. Especially on our team where he may be our best rebounder.

Also he wont play 30+ mins in the BE this year.

[xu82]

Carter another 10 rebounds. 15, 10, and 4. 5-9 from the field.

I hope he "sucks" for us all year long!

I don’t see any alternatives being suggested. You play with what you got. Hope we can keep growing the roster...........and make some damn FT’s down the stretch!

[X Factor]

So ugly...we're looking at back to back losing seasons in the BE.

[bjf123]

Some things never change. We still miss a lot of bunnies.


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[paulxu]

This is somewhat depressing.

[Xville]

I don’t see any alternatives being suggested. You play with what you got. Hope we can keep growing the roster...........and make some damn FT’s down the stretch!

That's the problem....backcourt has been replenished..frontcourt is still super thin.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That's the problem....backcourt has been replenished..frontcourt is still super thin.

Totally agree

[Xville]

Tempting fate over and over against average teams. Play like this in conference and that preseason prediction will ring true.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Anyway this is terrible.

Can't believe we let the game get to this point.

Very frustrating.

[Xville]

Balls by kyky there

[D-West & PO-Z]

2 big ones for Kyky there.

[paulxu]

With 2 seconds left, don't you foul on the inbound?

[xuphan]

With 2 seconds left, don't you foul on the inbound?

Amazing how many people aren’t wearing the mask correctly at the game. Put it over your nose too.

[paulxu]

OK...why didn't we foul that guy when he got the inbound pass?

[Xville]

Wow big time shot

[X Factor]

Overtime against a sorry team at home...we look like a mid major program again.

[Smooth]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge

[bjf123]

OK...why didn't we foul that guy when he got the inbound pass?

Wondering the same thing.


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[Xville]

OK...why didn't we foul that guy when he got the inbound pass?

Yep agreed. Steele still has a lot to learn...I'm getting tired.of this

[Smooth]

Has Steele publicly stated that he wants to stop facing adversity? Otherwise, he should probably do so.

[RoseyMuskie]

Let’s face it. This team is mediocre. Needs to grow up quickly if it wants to compete in BE play.

[X Factor]

Announcers talking about this has a tournament feel to it...what tournament? The OVC Conference tourney?

[IM4X]

1. Again- King is legit.
2. Not a great looking X team right now. Our guys need to dictate their tempo.
3. Steele knew they would press and failed to prepare his guys to beat it.
4. Will be interesting to see (win or lose) if Steel will own it or spin it.

[Xville]

So glad to see Scruggs shoot a 3...someone needs to carry that naji and q mantle.

[X Factor]

Year 3 for Steele...

[Xville]

Good night paul....you've been terrible this year so far

[X Factor]

This is a joke

[RoseyMuskie]

Jason Carter has been horrible tonight. And don’t site his stat line. It’s filler material.

[Xville]

Carter is such a joke

[paulxu]

I'll risk beating the dead horse.
In that long time out, Steele HAS to say to his guys...whoever catches the inbound pass, foul him immediately.
Since they didn't even try to do that...it's all on Steele.
Hopefully we can close this one out.

[xu82]

OK...why didn't we foul that guy when he got the inbound pass?

I have NO idea!

[xu82]

I have a new favorite Johnson!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Nate!

[bjf123]

How was Carter not fouled there?

[X Factor]

How many point blank layupes has Carter missed?

[Xville]

Thank you nate johnson! That's how you shoot..gee there's carter again getting punked.

[RoseyMuskie]

Way to go Nate.

And what is this timeout???

[Xville]

It's time for Steele to start taking some accountability in his press conferences. I dont want to hear anymore aww shucks bs coachspeak

[IM4X]

The past two possessions sponsored by

Johnson & Johnson

[D-West & PO-Z]

Jason Carter has been horrible tonight. And don’t site his stat line. It’s filler material.

I get being mad by his last couple plays. He looks gimpy out there and no doubt he isnt a good finisher but his stats are def NOT filler material. Your are entitled to your opinion though. Like or not hes been by far our best rebounder this game and year.

[bjf123]

EKU has attempted 88 shots. That’s 30 more than X per Adam Baum.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

Way to go Nate.

And what is this timeout???

One setting up a gigantic bucket? Good play call out of the timeout there.

[xu82]

I get being mad by his last couple plays. He looks gimpy out there and no doubt he isnt a good finisher but his stats are def NOT filler material. Your are entitled to your opinion though. Like or not hes been by far our best rebounder this game and year.

I wish we had better options, but there is no doubt the guys works hard and pulls down rebounds.

[Smooth]

Nice pass by Freemantle

[xu82]

Nice smart play by Freemantle to push the ball forward.

[Xville]

Whew that was close...good lay in carter

[D-West & PO-Z]

Nice pass by Freemantle

Big time by zach there.

[Smooth]

great block, Odom

[Xville]

Geezus shit odom is athletic

[xu82]

The state of Georgia triple jump champion.....I wonder if he also drives for Uber?

Odom is an athletic FREAK!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Huge FTs by Carter.

[RoseyMuskie]

I get being mad by his last couple plays. He looks gimpy out there and no doubt he isnt a good finisher but his stats are def NOT filler material. Your are entitled to your opinion though. Like or not hes been by far our best rebounder this game and year.

He made free throws when it counted, so we can enjoy that together.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Scruggs was dancing and not paying attention during the timeout huddle after fouling out...

Senior leadership

[Xville]

Great balls by carter there...huge. that was for sure a 2
.

[Xville]

Scruggs was dancing and not paying attention during the timeout huddle after fouling out...

Senior leadership

I'm ready for anyone from that era to be gone.

[X Factor]

Scruggs was dancing and not paying attention during the timeout huddle after fouling out...

Senior leadership

I noticed that too...wasn't a part of the huddle at all.

[Smooth]

ManTandy!!!

[xu82]

I’m mildly surprised he missed that last half court shot.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just win baby lol.

I know its not funny this game but shit.

Need to get our shit together.

[XUGRAD80]

Sure can’t wait until X has some more bodies to put out there.

[N67ER]

Never in doubt!

[AviatorX]

I'm ready for anyone from that era to be gone.

Sheesh you guys are impossible. FYI, it’s not a secret that within the program Scruggs is known as one of the best teammates and hardest workers in program history.

Effort against Toledo and tonight sucked. They need to get it together fast.

[xu82]

Well, THAT was not fun.

[N67ER]

Good night paul....you've been terrible this year so far

He was the reason we beat Toledo, so you are being a bit harsh.

[Xville]

Wish we had one more frontcourt guy, but looking forward to getting wilcher and Jones in the rotation.

[paulxu]

I'm not sure I can handle any more of these "teaching moments."

[KabeX]

for us more seasoned fans, yes, I'm playing my favorite Journey disc - 1981's ESCAPE

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I’m mildly surprised he missed that last half court shot.

Me too!

On the one hand, I feel good that this team, yet one more time, found a way to win a game that, by all means, they should have lost. But, wow. This was EKU and they outplayed X in so many aspects of the game tonight. I cannot imagine any of our B.E. competitors playing as badly as we played. This was disappointing for those of us who have thought X was getting better. Terrible defense and often terrible decision making.

For Xavier, as depressing a "W" as I can recall seeing in awhile.

[XUGRAD80]

Sheesh you guys are impossible. FYI, it’s not a secret that within the program Scruggs is known as one of the best teammates and hardest workers in program history.

Effort against Toledo and tonight sucked. They need to get it together fast.

I don’t think the effort sucked at all. They did get tired at times, and that’s a direct result of playing 4 games in 6 days with only 8 players....and in this game it was really only 6. As far as getting it together.....until they get the other players available and get more experience, this is probably as “together” as it’s going to get.

[N67ER]

Thank you nate johnson! That's how you shoot..gee there's carter again getting punked.

And yet without Carter we would have lost this game. He isn’t a finisher, but very steady and decent from the line.

[Section 200]

25 turnovers vs Eastern Kentucky - yuck. I assume we purposely scheduled this team to get experience vs. the press. We aren't anywhere near good enough not to take teams seriously

[Xville]

He was the reason we beat Toledo, so you are being a bit harsh.

You're right. That was harsh...just frustrated. These last three games have been shit. Glad for the wins but there is a lot of.work to be done

[KabeX]

This somewhat concerning (obviously). It's like we didn't even scout them. That was not a killer press. All they had to do was bring a big up to the middle. When they finally did it, it was a layup or dunk. Then we'd go back to dribbling and letting them trap. We'll see how we are full strength but man oh man am I concerned.

[bobbiemcgee]

How many point blank layupes has Carter missed?

Not many. He was 20/11/4 and hit some huge FT's.

[D-West & PO-Z]

As nerve wracking as these last 3 have been I still enjoy watching this team a lot more than last years. You can see where so many players can grow and get better throughout the year where last year you kinda felt like there wasnt a ton of room for improvement. Johnson looks like a legit transfer. More Bernard than Castlin. Also can't wait to get Wilcher and Jones into the mix.

Maybe Griffin needs a few more mins?

[XU 23]

They outshot us 91 to 60... lol.

[X Factor]

Not many. He was 20/11/4 and hit some huge FT's.

I counted at least 3...literally point blank. He did make some big FT's though.

[MauriceX]

I know that fans expect their team to be awesome and tonight was decidely not awesome, but you'd have thought we lost by 20 based on the reactions of some folks on this board. Let me remind you of a small fact:

WE WON

There is a reason the Xavier staff scheduled this team to start out with an easier schedule. We have a lottttttttt of new faces. Lots of freshman. Lots of transfers. We are 4-0! Is there room for improvement? Yes. Quite a bit. But I am personally very happy with where we stand. I have seen lots of positives, and when this team starts to click, they will be really good! It'll also help when we are playing with a full team too!

And for the record - I absolutely hate the style of defense that EKU plays. The name of the game is to commit more fouls than the refs feel comfortable calling. When I was a student at X, I sat close enough to the sideline to have a short conversation with James Breeding (who officiated tonight) when XU was playing a press team. I was complaining about the fouls and he turned and said "Look at the foul counts for both teams - exactly the same. It can't get much better than that, can it?" And I was astounded. It kills me that this mentality by the officials makes that style of defense so successful.

[bobbiemcgee]

I counted at least 3...literally point blank. He did make some big FT's though.

No Carter.....no win

[XUBison]

What the hell is our identity? Bradley and EKU couldn’t be more different, yet both imposed their styles on us. Our whole also never seems to match the sum of our parts, let alone exceed them. I guess the more things change...

[N67ER]

The sole story of that game was turnovers. We out shot them from the field, the three point line, and in number of made free throws. We had a significant edge on the boards. Obvious to me that we to get our Covid players back to have a deep enough bench. Effort was there, but need to make better decisions against a pressing team. But how many times will a 6’9” player shoot a 3 over Freemantle to tie the game?

[xu82]

Not many. He was 20/11/4 and hit some huge FT's.

OH. The horror!

He’s a solid glue guy, at least. We could use another guy just like him, but some upgrades would be nice.

[N67ER]

No Carter.....no win

Indeed, no Carter ..... not even in the game!

[X Factor]

I know that fans expect their team to be awesome and tonight was decidely not awesome, but you'd have thought we lost by 20 based on the reactions of some folks on this board. Let me remind you of a small fact:

WE WON

There is a reason the Xavier staff scheduled this team to start out with an easier schedule. We have a lottttttttt of new faces. Lots of freshman. Lots of transfers. We are 4-0! Is there room for improvement? Yes. Quite a bit. But I am personally very happy with where we stand. I have seen lots of positives, and when this team starts to click, they will be really good! It'll also help when we are playing with a full team too!

And for the record - I absolutely hate the style of defense that EKU plays. The name of the game is to commit more fouls than the refs feel comfortable calling. When I was a student at X, I sat close enough to the sideline to have a short conversation with James Breeding (who officiated tonight) when XU was playing a press team. I was complaining about the fouls and he turned and said "Look at the foul counts for both teams - exactly the same. It can't get much better than that, can it?" And I was astounded. It kills me that this mentality by the officials makes that style of defense so successful.

Let's face it, we recruit on a totally different level than Oakland, Bradley, Toledo, and EKU. They have freshman and new players too.

Look at their Kenpom rankings! Oakland is 295, EKU is 204, and Bradley and Toledo are right inside the top 120. None of them are as good as any BE team we will face this year.

Luckily, we were at home for these first four games or we could easily be looking at 1-3 losses. Thankfully, they won all of them.

[whopper]

Scruggs seems too old for the team..i almost feel sorry for him-when he came here he was met by Mal Bernard and Rash Gaston. Thank God we won. Carter is my doppleganger. The Carter missed layup compounded by the three point play is mind boggling and the look on his face was something i have felt at a far lower level and maybe the win will help put it behind him. The story of the game was our half court defense.. Teams dont even think about taking to the hoop unimpled. EKU did not even score off steals but almost bully ball. This will be a tough year and hopefully we will have some pleasant surprises.

[X Factor]

The sole story of that game was turnovers. We out shot them from the field, the three point line, and in number of made free throws. We had a significant edge on the boards. Obvious to me that we to get our Covid players back to have a deep enough bench. Effort was there, but need to make better decisions against a pressing team. But how many times will a 6’9” player shoot a 3 over Freemantle to tie the game?

X was a 17.5 point favorite at home vs a team outside the top 200 in Kenpom's rankings. We shouldn't be talking about them making a clutch three to send the game to OT.

[KabeX]

Yeah, I get the idea we should all be happy with a W. Relieved might be more appropriate. Concerned - most assuredly. Expectations are a lot higher in this era. That said, almost all high level teams go through this from time to time. And we're not full strength. So no, I'm not happy with the W. I am relieved though.

[bobbiemcgee]

No Carter.....no win

"But it was a victory. That was in large part to Jason Carter (20/11/4) and his ability to get buckets off the dribble late. Two strong left handed finishes in the last two minutes of regulation came when the rest of Xavier’s team was decompensating in the face of EKU’s constant press and, frankly, constant fouling. Carter was calm and collected at all times." - Banners

[D-West & PO-Z]

"But it was a victory. That was in large part to Jason Carter (20/11/4) and his ability to get buckets off the dribble late. Two strong left handed finishes in the last two minutes of regulation came when the rest of Xavier’s team was decompensating in the face of EKU’s constant press and, frankly, constant fouling. Carter was calm and collected at all times." - Banners

I was leading the charge of defending Carter in this thread from the first moment he was called out. And his stat line was impressive and his rebounding was and has been huge. But to say he was "calm and collected at all times" is absolutely laughable. Carter has some really bad plays and some really good plays down the stretch. We dont win without him and he has been big for us this year and shown he is our best rebounder this year, but again, calm and collected at all times is not how I would describe him this game or ever.

[Billy]

The way both situations which allowed EKU to tie (and almost tie) the game in OT should be concerning to everyone.

Not just what appeared to be a conscious decision not to foul, but an incompetent defensive alignment on the inbound at the end of regulation (after a timeout that Travis called). Wish I could post the photo here of what they did. Zero reason to be defending areas that the opposing team won't possibly take a shot from.

This is *simple stuff*.

Hope you all are staying healthy! That's all I got.

[MauriceX]

Let's face it, we recruit on a totally different level than Oakland, Bradley, Toledo, and EKU. They have freshman and new players too.

Look at their Kenpom rankings! Oakland is 295, EKU is 204, and Bradley and Toledo are right inside the top 120. None of them are as good as any BE team we will face this year.

Luckily, we were at home for these first four games or we could easily be looking at 1-3 losses. Thankfully, they won all of them.

We do recruit differently, but let's take a moment to look at the combined experience on their team of every player who was on the floor longer than 10 minutes tonight.
EKU: King - 3 years, Robb - 3, Green - 1, Lewis - 2, Moreno - 2, Brown - 3, Cruikshank - 4 Total: 18 years
XU: Johnson - 1, Freemantle - 2, Carter - 2, Odom - 1, Scruggs - 4, Tandy - 2 Total: 12 years

We basically played an entire game plus overtime against a press on a 6 man rotation, and our only player who has been around longer than 1 year and 4 games had foul trouble. We had to rely on 3 players to break a press that have a combined 30 games at Xavier under their belt.

And we won!

Do I think we should be better than all of these teams in Kenpom at the end of the year? Yes, for sure. Do I think we need to be steamrolling all of these teams right now? No.

This is a young team, and we are 4-0. Enjoy this feeling! This is a good feeling!

[MADXSTER]

I know that fans expect their team to be awesome and tonight was decidely not awesome, but you'd have thought we lost by 20 based on the reactions of some folks on this board. Let me remind you of a small fact:

WE WON

There is a reason the Xavier staff scheduled this team to start out with an easier schedule. We have a lottttttttt of new faces. Lots of freshman. Lots of transfers. We are 4-0! Is there room for improvement? Yes. Quite a bit. But I am personally very happy with where we stand. I have seen lots of positives, and when this team starts to click, they will be really good! It'll also help when we are playing with a full team too!

And for the record - I absolutely hate the style of defense that EKU plays. The name of the game is to commit more fouls than the refs feel comfortable calling. When I was a student at X, I sat close enough to the sideline to have a short conversation with James Breeding (who officiated tonight) when XU was playing a press team. I was complaining about the fouls and he turned and said "Look at the foul counts for both teams - exactly the same. It can't get much better than that, can it?" And I was astounded. It kills me that this mentality by the officials makes that style of defense so successful.

This is spot on

[X Factor]

We do recruit differently, but let's take a moment to look at the combined experience on their team of every player who was on the floor longer than 10 minutes tonight.
EKU: King - 3 years, Robb - 3, Green - 1, Lewis - 2, Moreno - 2, Brown - 3, Cruikshank - 4 Total: 18 years
XU: Johnson - 1, Freemantle - 2, Carter - 2, Odom - 1, Scruggs - 4, Tandy - 2 Total: 12 years

We basically played an entire game plus overtime against a press on a 6 man rotation, and our only player who has been around longer than 1 year and 4 games had foul trouble. We had to rely on 3 players to break a press that have a combined 30 games at Xavier under their belt.

And we won!

Do I think we should be better than all of these teams in Kenpom at the end of the year? Yes, for sure. Do I think we need to be steamrolling all of these teams right now? No.

This is a young team, and we are 4-0. Enjoy this feeling! This is a good feeling!

C'mon...Nate Johson is a 5th year senior who's played in the NCAA tournament. Carter is a 5th year senior and Scruggs is a senior.

[bobbiemcgee]

I heard some of you in Denver yelling FOUL!!!!.....FOUL!!!!....F**k....and then it happened again.....

[MauriceX]

C'mon...Nate Johson is a 5th year senior who's played in the NCAA tournament. Carter is a 5th year senior and Scruggs is a senior.

Yeah, and I'm sure their experiences at Ohio and (checks notes) Gardner-Webb means that there is no adjustment time needed to fit in with a new system and a ton of brand new players.

Like I said, there is a ton to fix still. But we are talking like it is the end of the season after 6 DAYS! Give them some time and enjoy the ride!

[D-West & PO-Z]

We have played 4 games. Our next 3 opponents have played, 2, 0, and 0. Lets just hope that somehow benefits us moving forward.

[MauriceX]

The way both situations which allowed EKU to tie (and almost tie) the game in OT should be concerning to everyone.

Not just what appeared to be a conscious decision not to foul, but an incompetent defensive alignment on the inbound at the end of regulation (after a timeout that Travis called). Wish I could post the photo here of what they did. Zero reason to be defending areas that the opposing team won't possibly take a shot from.

This is *simple stuff*.

Hope you all are staying healthy! That's all I got.

The decision not to foul while up three TWICE (regulation and overtime) was pretty infuriating.

Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me...well... YOU CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!

[XUBison]

C'mon...Nate Johson is a 5th year senior who's played in the NCAA tournament. Carter is a 5th year senior and Scruggs is a senior.

Thank you, beat me to it. Talk about spin for the sake of a narrative.

[XUGRAD80]

Expectations are a lot higher in this era.

I think there is a concept that we all need to get used to.....the other teams are not intimidated by X any longer. The last 2 years have taken away any cred that X had. They don’t care about the “era” and neither should we. What X has done in the past, what success they have experienced, the number of NCAA appearances, the number of sweet 16 appearances, the runs to the elite 8....NONE of that is going to win them any games in the future. The “expectations” need to based not on whatever past successes X has had, but need to be based on exactly what this team is right now....a young, inexperienced team led by a young inexperienced head coach. They MAY develop into a really good team by the end of the year, but they aren’t there yet. Take the wins as they come and look for improvement in the future. Hope that the young players learn from their mistakes and don’t repeat them. X took this game as a way to prepare for schools like St. John’s that play a similar style. Let’s hope that when X plays them that this game helped them prepare for the pressure they will see from SJU and that they handle it better.

“In order to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.”

[X Factor]

Yeah, and I'm sure their experiences at Ohio and (checks notes) Gardner-Webb means that there is no adjustment time needed to fit in with a new system and a ton of brand new players.

Like I said, there is a ton to fix still. But we are talking like it is the end of the season after 6 DAYS! Give them some time and enjoy the ride!

I'm going along for the ride, and hopefully it's enjoyable. We'll revisit this at the end of the year. Will you be happy with another sub .500 conference record?

[whopper]

what a strange box score..they had 10 more offensive rebounds and we had 20 more defensive. They only made 11 turnovers despite the speed of the game(and we NEVER came up with a 50/50 ball including Odoms block at end of game of Robb where I thought we had a huge advantage). I think our post defense of terrible and goes without saying that nobody fears Carter, Freemantle or Griffin in just rising and shooting over them. On to next game

[Section 200]

The decision not to foul while up three TWICE (regulation and overtime) was pretty infuriating.

Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me...well... YOU CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!

We attempted to foul the 2nd time but did not get the call. I think we actually committed 2 fouls at the midcourt stripe but the EKU player ran thru the attempts.

[GoMuskies]

I was out tonight and missed the whole game. All I have to say is what the fuck?

Not the score. Billy posting.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The decision not to foul while up three TWICE (regulation and overtime) was pretty infuriating.

Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me...well... YOU CAN'T GET FOOLED AGAIN!

They were clearly trying to foul in OT and didnt get the call.

[Xville]

I think there is a concept that we all need to get used to.....the other teams are not intimidated by X any longer. The last 2 years have taken away any cred that X had. They don’t care about the “era” and neither should we. What X has done in the past, what success they have experienced, the number of NCAA appearances, the number of sweet 16 appearances, the runs to the elite 8....NONE of that is going to win them any games in the future. The “expectations” need to based not on whatever past successes X has had, but need to be based on exactly what this team is right now....a young, inexperienced team led by a young inexperienced head coach. They MAY develop into a really good team by the end of the year, but they aren’t there yet. Take the wins as they come and look for improvement in the future. Hope that the young players learn from their mistakes and don’t repeat them. X took this game as a way to prepare for schools like St. John’s that play a similar style. Let’s hope that when X plays them that this game helped them prepare for the pressure they will see from SJU and that they handle it better.

“In order to be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.”

Take a look at vegas lines, kenpom, talent whatever. Expectations are that x beats Toledo, bradley and eku by double digits...period end of story.

[XUBison]

[QUOTE=XUGRAD80;685546]I think there is a concept that we all need to get used to.....the other teams are not intimidated by X any longer. The last 2 years have taken away any cred that X had. They don’t care about the “era” and neither should we. What X has done in the past, what success they have experienced, the number of NCAA appearances, the number of sweet 16 appearances, the runs to the elite 8....NONE of that is going to win them any games in the future. The “expectations” need to based not on whatever past successes X has had, but need to be based on exactly what this team is right now....a young, inexperienced team led by a young inexperienced head coach. They MAY develop into a really good team by the end of the year, but they aren’t there yet. Take the wins as they come and look for improvement in the future. Hope that the young players learn from their mistakes and don’t repeat them... ]

If anyone was wondering how once great DePaul became DePaul...

[bjf123]

what a strange box score..they had 10 more offensive rebounds and we had 20 more defensive. They only made 11 turnovers despite the speed of the game(and we NEVER came up with a 50/50 ball including Odoms block at end of game of Robb where I thought we had a huge advantage). I think our post defense of terrible and goes without saying that nobody fears Carter, Freemantle or Griffin in just rising and shooting over them. On to next game

I think part of the reason for them getting so many offensive boards is they missed 27 shots from behind the arc. Those tend to be long rebounds that gives the offense a better chance to get.

[XUGRAD80]

[QUOTE=XUGRAD80;685546]I think there is a concept that we all need to get used to.....the other teams are not intimidated by X any longer. The last 2 years have taken away any cred that X had. They don’t care about the “era” and neither should we. What X has done in the past, what success they have experienced, the number of NCAA appearances, the number of sweet 16 appearances, the runs to the elite 8....NONE of that is going to win them any games in the future. The “expectations” need to based not on whatever past successes X has had, but need to be based on exactly what this team is right now....a young, inexperienced team led by a young inexperienced head coach. They MAY develop into a really good team by the end of the year, but they aren’t there yet. Take the wins as they come and look for improvement in the future. Hope that the young players learn from their mistakes and don’t repeat them... ]

If anyone was wondering how once great DePaul became DePaul...

Actually I think that there is a very good chance that by the end of the year X will be pretty good, and I think that next year and the year after X will be really good. But meanwhile there are going to be some growing pains.

[bobbiemcgee]

Presser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia9sgzDllB0

[xu82]

[QUOTE=XUBison;685556]

Actually I think that there is a very good chance that by the end of the year X will be pretty good, and I think that next year and the year after X will be really good. But meanwhile there are going to be some growing pains.

Agreed, no need to rush to judgment. I don’t want to be the blind apologist, but I also don’t want to be the Cleveland Browns of the Big East. Turning over staffs on a regular basis is the surest way to become a dumpster fire.

[XUGRAD80]

Take a look at vegas lines, kenpom, talent whatever. Expectations are that x beats Toledo, bradley and eku by double digits...period end of story.

None of that means sh#*. Ask VA and KY what the lines were before they lost. Mich was certainly a 20+ point favorite over Oakland. That game went into OT too. #17 Texas beat Davidson by 2 today. Pretty sure they were picked by double digits. Lots of other examples of how the experts were off on their lines or picks. Happens early in the year, every year.

I’m certainly not saying that we should be satisfied with how the team is playing, far from it. I’m just saying that we should realize that right now they just aren’t playing very good, and shouldn’t be shocked or surprised when they struggle against any team they play. Looking at their next opponent, we should really expect X to blow them out. But I really won’t be surprised if they struggle, and I don’t think anyone else should be either. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they get hot from 3 and blow them out. They showed that they could do that when they played Oakland. But they haven’t shown that they can shoot like that consistently, have they? They have shown themselves so far this year to be inconsistent in almost every area of the game. Who knows what we will see in the next game? I certainly don’t. But I’m willing to bet that they will make mistakes, they will make stupid plays, they will have breakdowns on defense, and they will also play hard and figure out a way to win. I could care less about the line and what they are picked to do by Vegas, Kenpom, or any other “expert”. Nor do I believe that any betting line ever decided the outcome of any game.

[Xville]

None of that means sh#*. Ask VA and KY what the lines were before they lost. Mich was certainly a 20+ point favorite over Oakland. That game went into OT too. #17 Texas beat Davidson by 2 today. Pretty sure they were picked by double digits. Lots of other examples of how the experts were off on their lines or picks. Happens early in the year, every year.

I’m certainly not saying that we should be satisfied with how the team is playing, far from it. I’m just saying that we should realize that right now they just aren’t playing very good, and shouldn’t be shocked or surprised when they struggle against any team they play. Looking at their next opponent, we should really expect X to blow them out. But I really won’t be surprised if they struggle, and I don’t think anyone else should be either. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they get hot from 3 and blow them out. They showed that they could do that when they played Oakland. But they haven’t shown that they can shoot like that consistently, have they? They have shown themselves so far this year to be inconsistent in almost every area of the game. Who knows what we will see in the next game? I certainly don’t. But I’m willing to bet that they will make mistakes, they will make stupid plays, they will have breakdowns on defense, and they will also play hard and figure out a way to win. I could care less about the line and what they are picked to do by Vegas, Kenpom, or any other “expert”. Nor do I believe that any betting line ever decided the outcome of any game.

You were speaking to expectations, expectations are that xavier beats those teams by double digits. You can rationalize it with young team, young season, other teams have been upset. However, at xavier, expectations are that you beat mac, ovc and mvc teams at home easily which is why Vegas set the line of the games where they are. No of course a betting line doesnt decide the outcome of a game. However, it is a really good indicator as to the expectations for that particular game.

[Lloyd Braun]

Hey I tried to warn y’all on the line being inflated... X against the spread lately has been brutal. Maybe 1-8 or somewhere close just going off memory back to the end last year (tried to erase the end of last year from memory).

This team will be fine, they just need some bodies back. Hopefully nobody else has exposure.

Regarding the game the hate on Carter is ridiculous. Sure he can’t make a fuckkng layup but he does everything else efficiently. The FG% inside 2 feet is a bit confounding and it’s almost as if he launches the ball at the backboard as hard as possible. I have LOL’d on several occasions, it’s just funny at this point. No touch.

No harsh words for Odom? How many turnovers did her have? 20? I know he’s a freshman but he’s gotta reel that in. He made some nice plays of course but if he cut his turnovers in half today it’s a completely different game.

They’ll be fine... we have some ballers.

[Xville]

Hey I tried to warn y’all on the line being inflated... X against the spread lately has been brutal. Maybe 1-8 or somewhere close just going off memory back to the end last year (tried to erase the end of last year from memory).

This team will be fine, they just need some bodies back. Hopefully nobody else has exposure.

Regarding the game the hate on Carter is ridiculous. Sure he can’t make a fuckkng layup but he does everything else efficiently. The FG% inside 2 feet is a bit confounding and it’s almost as if he launches the ball at the backboard as hard as possible. I have LOL’d on several occasions, it’s just funny at this point. No touch.

No harsh words for Odom? How many turnovers did her have? 20? I know he’s a freshman but he’s gotta reel that in. He made some nice plays of course but if he cut his turnovers in half today it’s a completely different game.

They’ll be fine... we have some ballers.

Yeah Steele was harsh on odom in the presser too. Thing is, I'll give a freshman a lot of latitude. He had 3 blocks, 7 rebounds, 6 assists. Yeah he turned it over a lot, but again..freshman. I'm much more annoyed with paul playing twenty minutes because of stupid fouls which for fucks sake he hasnt improved on in 4 years, and that again after 4 years, cant handle pressure.

[waggy]

Well we have a #1 rating on Pomeroy.

In Luck.

[Lloyd Braun]

Xavier took 60 shots. EKU missed 56 shots. And this was a 3 point game. 2020, folks!

[xu82]

Xavier took 60 shots. EKU missed 56 shots. And this was a 3 point game. 2020, folks!

This is going to be my favorite New Years Day EVER!!!

[Strange Brew]

I heard some of you in Denver yelling FOUL!!!!.....FOUL!!!!....F**k....and then it happened again.....

I’ll try to keep it down next time.

Sorry. :)

[Xuperman]

Free was pretty efficient offensively...12 of 14 off his hands went in. Only missed a 3 ball and 1 FT all game. Career high 24 with 13 boards. Only 1 foul in 40 minutes. Kid can play. Congrats!

[UCGRAD4X]

Free was pretty efficient offensively...12 of 14 off his hands went in. Only missed a 3 ball and 1 FT all game. Career high 24 with 13 boards. Only 1 foul in 40 minutes. Kid can play. Congrats!

ZFREE was F'ing amazing (one Block at the end of reg. would have been icing :).

There were some amazing offensive stats in the game, which makes sense when 6/7 players score 99 points.

Congrats to Paul, in an otherwise less than stellar outing, for getting into the 1,000 point club. Here's hoping he gets to 1500 by the end of the year (hey, a fan can dream can't he?).

[boozehound]

Yeah Steele was harsh on odom in the presser too. Thing is, I'll give a freshman a lot of latitude. He had 3 blocks, 7 rebounds, 6 assists. Yeah he turned it over a lot, but again..freshman. I'm much more annoyed with paul playing twenty minutes because of stupid fouls which for fucks sake he hasnt improved on in 4 years, and that again after 4 years, cant handle pressure.

I'm surprised every team we play doesn't pressure us. We have no answers. Haven't for years (dating back to Mack). I think it all comes down to mediocre ball handling from the PG spot. It's been a while since we have had a good true PG that is a solid ball handler. In general I feel like ball handling hasn't been a strong suit of Xavier's since Lyons and Holloway (probably not actually that far back, but still). Hopefully Odom can turn that on around.

I didn't expect a ton from Xavier at this point in the season, so we are kind of in line with what I thought - although I'm surprised we are undefeated. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing from the core group of younger guys though, and what we have heard about Wilcher and Jones. It's tough to call this a transition year, because it's Steele's 3rd year, but that's kind of what it feel like with a lot of young guys showing promise but not necessarily being fully developed.

I'm interested to see the whole roster play.

[Final4]

Jeez what a shit show. Carter STILL missing point blank shots, missed FT's, lousy defense, can't inbound the ball, our "senior leader" making boneheaded plays, careless turnovers, can't effectively break a press, going one-on-one without a single pass......We let the projected 4th place OVC team come into Cintas and take us to OT. And they were 6" away from taking us to double OT. I gave Steele the benefit of the doubt the past two years because I thought he was dealt a bad hand with the cancer that was Naji and Q. I'm now beginning to wonder if he is simply in over his head.

[paulxu]

If THAT's their strategy, I don't feel too good about the Colonels' chances. I took a small position X -16.5.

Here's hoping it was a "really" small position :)

[xavierj]

Jeez what a shit show. Carter STILL missing point blank shots, missed FT's, lousy defense, can't inbound the ball, our "senior leader" making boneheaded plays, careless turnovers, can't effectively break a press, going one-on-one without a single pass......We let the projected 4th place OVC team come into Cintas and take us to OT. And they were 6" away from taking us to double OT. I gave Steele the benefit of the doubt the past two years because I thought he was dealt a bad hand with the cancer that was Naji and Q. I'm now beginning to wonder if he is simply in over his head.

Other than missed free throws, I agree with everything else you said. Xavier was 77% from the line. I think we would all take that every game. Two things were the story. Turnovers and defensive rebounding. Cut both in half and Xavier wins by 20+ last night. I know the three shooting wasn’t great the last few games, but this team will be a much better three point shooting team this year as the year progresses. They are getting good spacing and looks, so that will improve. Need to fix the stupid pressure turnovers and make a better effort blocking out on the defensive end. Hopefully Jones and Wilcher are as good as advertised, which would help and it really sucks Stanley didn’t get the waiver because he would have helped quite a bit down low. Can’t have Carter playing that many minutes, especially in a game where the other team is playing such a frantic style.

[XUGRAD80]

You were speaking to expectations, expectations are that xavier beats those teams by double digits. You can rationalize it with young team, young season, other teams have been upset. However, AT XAVIER, expectations are that you beat mac, ovc and mvc teams at home easily which is why Vegas set the line of the games where they are. No of course a betting line doesnt decide the outcome of a game. However, it is a really good indicator as to the expectations for that particular game.

My point would be that if YOU are basing YOUR expectations on Vegas lines, rankings, etc., and not on what you actually see, you're probably making a mistake. If FANS are basing THEIR expectations on the name on the uniform, or the emblem on the floor, and not on what THEY have SEEN for the last 2 seasons plus 4 games, they are making a mistake. if the players and coaches think that they can just put on a uniform, roll the ball out on the floor, and just go at it, they are making a mistake. To "rationalize" something is to be rational in your thought process. It's not making excuses to point out the reasons for a rational thought process. In fact, I'd say that in this case, thinking that past success will have any effect on future results is almost the opposite of rational thought. I'm being purely analytical when I point out the problems with this roster and express that my expectations for THIS year are somewhat conservative, even pessimistic when compared to others. But they are based on what I SEE, not on what if feel. They are not an indictment of the program or a comment on what I think they will accomplish over the NEXT couple of years, only my feeling for THIS year.

[MADXSTER]

I gave Steele the benefit of the doubt the past two years because I thought he was dealt a bad hand with the cancer that was Naji and Q. I'm now beginning to wonder if he is simply in over his head.

Don't forget that Mack missed on Every priority recruit that we went after. That was an additional major setback as well.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm surprised every team we play doesn't pressure us. We have no answers. Haven't for years (dating back to Mack). I think it all comes down to mediocre ball handling from the PG spot. It's been a while since we have had a good true PG that is a solid ball handler. In general I feel like ball handling hasn't been a strong suit of Xavier's since Lyons and Holloway (probably not actually that far back, but still). Hopefully Odom can turn that on around.

I didn't expect a ton from Xavier at this point in the season, so we are kind of in line with what I thought - although I'm surprised we are undefeated. I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing from the core group of younger guys though, and what we have heard about Wilcher and Jones. It's tough to call this a transition year, because it's Steele's 3rd year, but that's kind of what it feel like with a lot of young guys showing promise but not necessarily being fully developed.

I'm interested to see the whole roster play.

Yeah PG has been an issue since Ed Sumner went down. Minus some early success of Goodin's surrounded by great shooters.

Every team doesnt press us because that is a hard style to play. They probably practice the shit out of that defense. And they have to have the bodies to be able to do it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Other than missed free throws, I agree with everything else you said. Xavier was 77% from the line. I think we would all take that every game. Two things were the story. Turnovers and defensive rebounding. Cut both in half and Xavier wins by 20+ last night. I know the three shooting wasn’t great the last few games, but this team will be a much better three point shooting team this year as the year progresses. They are getting good spacing and looks, so that will improve. Need to fix the stupid pressure turnovers and make a better effort blocking out on the defensive end. Hopefully Jones and Wilcher are as good as advertised, which would help and it really sucks Stanley didn’t get the waiver because he would have helped quite a bit down low. Can’t have Carter playing that many minutes, especially in a game where the other team is playing such a frantic style.

Yeah FT's were the least of our worries last night.

Carter had a couple bad plays but for the most part he was a major reason why we won. He is definitely this site's whipping boy though. He wont play that many minutes often though, but we are essentially playing with 6 guys Steele trusts at this point (not sure why Griffin doesnt get a little more run, probably bad matchup yesterday for him), plus Scruggs was in foul trouble and only played 21 mins. Once Jones and Wilcher return Carter's mins will go down some but I think it is time for a lot of people to accept he is going to be integral to our success and he is going to get a lot of playing time. He has been huge on the boards and despite a couple close missed shots he was big offensively too. Added 4 assists and was 7/8 from the FT line.

[boozehound]

Yeah PG has been an issue since Ed Sumner went down. Minus some early success of Goodin's surrounded by great shooters.

Every team doesnt press us because that is a hard style to play. They probably practice the shit out of that defense. And they have to have the bodies to be able to do it.

I forgot about Sumner. Talk about a tale of what could have been (if he had stayed healthy).

[D-West & PO-Z]

I forgot about Sumner. Talk about a tale of what could have been (if he had stayed healthy).

Yeah, a big "what if" for sure.

[XU 87]

Don't forget that Mack missed on Every priority recruit that we went after. That was an additional major setback as well.

I am in this camp, but after watching last night's game, and the two games before that, and the two seasons before that, I can't help but wonder how good of a coach Steele is.

[kellernr]

I am in this camp, but after watching last night's game, and the two games before that, and the two seasons before that, I can't help but wonder how good of a coach Steele is.


I'll compare Steele to Marvin Lewis

Marvin - Great defensive coordinator / Horrible head coach (Also works for Dick Lebeau)

Travis - Great recruiter / not a great head coach

[XU 87]

I'll compare Steele to Marvin Lewis

Marvin - Great defensive coordinator / Horrible head coach (Also works for Dick Lebeau)

Travis - Great recruiter / not a great head coach

Not to change the subject, but in light of the fact that the Bengals have won 4 games since Marvin left, he appears to have been a good coach in a terrible organization.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'll compare Steele to Marvin Lewis

Marvin - Great defensive coordinator / Horrible head coach (Also works for Dick Lebeau)

Travis - Great recruiter / not a great head coach

To be fair recruiting is obviously going to come more naturally to a new head coach because he has been doing that for years as an assistant. It's obviously fair to say he isnt a great head coach right now but I dont think its fair to determine after 2 seasons and 4 games that he wont be a great head coach. I still think he probably has a 50/50 shot to turn into one. At the start of Sean Miller's 3rd year no one thought he was a great head coach. I think most think he turned out to be our best coach ever.

[Roach]

I'll compare Steele to Marvin Lewis

Marvin - Great defensive coordinator / Horrible head coach (Also works for Dick Lebeau)

Travis - Great recruiter / not a great head coach

This team just won 4 games in 5 days. Everyone needs to chill out.

[xuwin]

This team just won 4 games in 5 days. Everyone needs to chill out.

I agree. Besides Oakland I think the teams that Xavier has been playing are much better than people are giving them credit for.

[GoMuskies]

I agree. Besides Oakland I think the teams that Xavier has been playing are much better than people are giving them credit for.

I doubt Eastern Kentucky is good. Toledo and Bradley might turn out to be pretty decent teams.

[murray87]

Jason Carter is our Dennis Rodman. Now if he would just dye his hair and get some tats

[GoMuskies]

Jason Carter is our Dennis Rodman. Now if he would just dye his hair and get some tats

And start banging the 2020 equivalent of Carmen Electra

[stammina0721]

I'll compare Steele to Marvin Lewis

Marvin - Great defensive coordinator / Horrible head coach (Also works for Dick Lebeau)

Travis - Great recruiter / not a great head coach

Showing your age here. I guess 3-4 division championships and 8-9 playoff appearances is the definition of a horrible coach. Let's not consider the fact that Marvin came in and immediately made Cincy relevant coming off the dreadful 90's and seeing what we have now.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Showing your age here. I guess 3-4 division championships and 8-9 playoff appearances is the definition of a horrible coach. Let's not consider the fact that Marvin came in and immediately made Cincy relevant coming off the dreadful 90's and seeing what we have now.

Marvin was definitely not horrible. However, there is not another team in the NFL who would have kept him as head coach as long as the Bengals did with zero playoff wins.

Hell my Giants ran Tom Coughlin out of town and he won 2 freaking Super Bowls. And the Giants arent a team that has a history of running off GM's or coaches, they like stability as well. (Until recently)

[drudy23]

I think what this comes down to is this - no one is really sold yet on Steele - for good reason.

After the first game, I thought maybe the tide was turning. We looked awesome. After the last 3, I think I'm back in the "not sold yet" camp.

This is a crucial year for him. If we fall flat and go below .500 in conference play, I'm not sure he's the guy.

[XU 87]

This team just won 4 games in 5 days. Everyone needs to chill out.

True, but against inferior competition, at home, and barely squeaked by in 3 of the 4 games. X was up 13 in the second half yesterday and lost the lead.... and it was against Eastern Kentucky. The results so far have given reason to be concerned.

[muskiefan82]

True, but against inferior competition, at home, and barely squeaked by in 3 of the 4 games. X was up 13 in the second half yesterday and lost the lead.... and it was against Eastern Kentucky. The results so far have given reason to be concerned.

I wonder if things would have been different (or worse?) with an actual home crowd?

[bobbiemcgee]

Don't get the Carter criticisms for this game. He came in averaging what? 4 pts a game? and scores 20, 11 boards and is shooting 88% from the line. Geesh.

[XU 87]

I wonder if things would have been different (or worse?) with an actual home crowd?

I was at the game last night. It ain't much of a home crowd.

[Xavier]

Don't get the Carter criticisms for this game. He came in averaging what? 4 pts a game? and scores 20, 11 boards and is shooting 88% from the line. Geesh.

He had a couple of mistakes, no question. I'd sign up for that Carter game all day though. Seems easy for anyone to say- but when you don't like a player his flaws jump out. Carter won the game for X yesterday and has been huge with his rebounding the first 4 games.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I think what this comes down to is this - no one is really sold yet on Steele - for good reason.

After the first game, I thought maybe the tide was turning. We looked awesome. After the last 3, I think I'm back in the "not sold yet" camp.

This is a crucial year for him. If we fall flat and go below .500 in conference play, I'm not sure he's the guy.

I think the above is the most reasonable position to take right now. All the hand wringing about Steele and the conclusions that, after two seasons, he can recruit but can't coach is way, way overdone. I think its O.K. to take DRUDY23's wait and see position. This crowd has just become too negative. Lighten up just a bit.

Carter, while he had a couple of bad plays (every player, absent ZFree did) played a competent game last night. I concur that he's not all that athletic, an average shooter and a step slow, but he did his job last night. Last season he started out O.K. but his play and confidence deteriorated once we got into the B.E. schedule---that may be partially attributable to the lousy collective attitude of last year's team. I'm not shorting Carter yet. I think (and hope) he will make some of you eat a little crow by season end. But, even if I'm wrong on that, some of the earlier posts have correctly noted that when Wilcher (and especially) Jones return, Carter's minutes will decrease.

EKU is a decent team and they played very well. X made them look a little better than they are but they played an excellent game and they clearly have some athletes. I too thought, going in to last night, "F**k its EKU, we got this". But, watching them play, I saw an athletic team with a game plan that, unfortunately played to Xavier's weaknesses. This was not Little Sisters of the Poor. But, even though I think many of you are vastly under-estimating the quality of EKU, I'm still worried about our guys that they made us look unprepared. Still, that happens to good teams every season especially early on.

I still believe (as was discussed at length in the Toledo game thread) that coaching continuity will be the key to long term X success and I still believe Steele is the guy. I'll admit the earlier comments that brought Marvin Lewis into the discussion are not great examples of the value of such continuity. However Lewis is a bad example. He was a lousy leader. I interacted with him more than a few times and without going into specifics, his reputation as a poor communicator and someone who could be a real dickhead, was well deserved. He lasted as long as he did because he worked for an organization that, arguably is one of the worst run of all professional sports franchises. And, Mike Brown survives because he sits atop a monopoly where he is awarded a slice of the league revenue that is attributable to better managed organizations.

Sorry I'm off topic----I absolutely believe coaching continuity is critical to making X a top flight national power. I still like Steele as our guy but, like DRUDY23, I accept that Steele still has to prove himself.

[IM4X]

I doubt Eastern Kentucky is good. Toledo and Bradley might turn out to be pretty decent teams.

Actually, I have gut feeling they will win a heck of a lot of games. They are really scrappy (reminiscent of the days of Kimbrough and Walker) and they have some players who can really shoot.

Their big, King, was as impressive as any big on our team last night and that includes Freemantle. He was lights out from deep and shot over Freemantle almost at Will. Freemantle was pretty darn good on offense himself, but he did get schooled a bit by King.

I think think King is good enough to play at the next level. He and #5 Copper are dangerously good shooters.
I see their coach getting job offers at the next level at the end of this season. He out coacheD Steel by a mile last night.

[IM4X]

I think what this comes down to is this - no one is really sold yet on Steele - for good reason.

After the first game, I thought maybe the tide was turning. We looked awesome. After the last 3, I think I'm back in the "not sold yet" camp.

This is a crucial year for him. If we fall flat and go below .500 in conference play, I'm not sure he's the guy.

The two most troubling thing for me last night:

1. Steel knew they were going to press all game and yet it seemed like he did zero to prepare his team for it. I don’t think it was at all a lack of good ball handlers on the team- but rather just a situation where teammates were not in position to help out. Heck, half of the time Free and Carter took off down the court and stood on either side of the basket. It wasn’t until 30+ minutes in the game when we finally saw Carter stop at half court to help out.

2. I think we are going to get destroyed inside on defense in BE games if our bigs play like they did last night on defense. No one (not even Freemantle) was a force on defense. Was hoping Miles would be a legit option after seeing him in the first game, but he seems to struggle a bit more against tougher competition. Hoping at least Griffin continues grow into a solid option this year- needs to watch those fouls.

[noteggs]

Paul’s overall decision making last night reminded me of the prior two teams for X. As frustrating as the last three games have been, I don’t have the same hopeless feeling about our offense as I did the last two seasons. At least not yet lol.

[bleedXblue]

The two most troubling thing for me last night:

1. Steel knew they were going to press all game and yet it seemed like he did zero to prepare his team for it. I don’t think it was at all a lack of good ball handlers on the team- but rather just a situation where teammates were not in position to help out. Heck, half of the time Free and Carter took off down the court and stood on either side of the basket. It wasn’t until 30+ minutes in the game when we finally saw Carter stop at half court to help out.

2. I think we are going to get destroyed inside on defense in BE games if our bigs play like they did last night on defense. No one (not even Freemantle) was a force on defense. Was hoping Miles would be a legit option after seeing him in the first game, but he seems to struggle a bit more against tougher competition. Hoping at least Griffin continues grow into a solid option this year- needs to watch those fouls.

You can prepare for a press until you are blue in the face but nothing is like facing your opponent who's been playing that style for years. Add to that our steadiest handle was a frosh.

[drudy23]

The two most troubling thing for me last night:

1. Steel knew they were going to press all game and yet it seemed like he did zero to prepare his team for it. I don’t think it was at all a lack of good ball handlers on the team- but rather just a situation where teammates were not in position to help out. Heck, half of the time Free and Carter took off down the court and stood on either side of the basket. It wasn’t until 30+ minutes in the game when we finally saw Carter stop at half court to help out.

2. I think we are going to get destroyed inside on defense in BE games if our bigs play like they did last night on defense. No one (not even Freemantle) was a force on defense. Was hoping Miles would be a legit option after seeing him in the first game, but he seems to struggle a bit more against tougher competition. Hoping at least Griffin continues grow into a solid option this year- needs to watch those fouls.

I've been critical of Steele - there are some things about him that remind me of Mick - throwing players under the bus in the press, terrible offensive philosophy, the "mean man" look on the sidelines, skipping out on pressers after laying eggs, etc, etc. I think he's been a bit overwhelmed in his first two years. But I also realize it took Miller and Mack a good two years to get comfortable in their own skin.

I'm not sold on him, but was willing to give him through this year. Still not sold. Only thing that will sell me is a NCAA berth. No more excuses.

[IM4X]

You can prepare for a press until you are blue in the face but nothing is like facing your opponent who's been playing that style for years. Add to that our steadiest handle was a frosh.

Fair point, but during the press conference Steele made it seem like it was on Odom for not “wanting” to get trapped during the full court press - when the real issue was that his teammates were not in position to help him out when he did get trapped. It was so damn frustrating to see again and again, trap after trap where no teammates were near to help. That to me seems to point to a poor job by the coaches. Like I said before, it wasn’t until more three fourths of the game was over that Carter started staying at mid court to help out. Why was that the case?

[RetireFiftyTu]

To be fair recruiting is obviously going to come more naturally to a new head coach because he has been doing that for years as an assistant. It's obviously fair to say he isnt a great head coach right now but I dont think its fair to determine after 2 seasons and 4 games that he wont be a great head coach. I still think he probably has a 50/50 shot to turn into one. At the start of Sean Miller's 3rd year no one thought he was a great head coach. I think most think he turned out to be our best coach ever.

Miller through 71 games: 45-26 (.634) - 11 "A" Kenpom games and 18 "B" Kenpom games.
Steele through 71 games: 42-29 (.592) - 23 "A" Kenpom games and 21 "B" Kenpom games.

2005: 17-12 (10-6, T4 in A-10, T2 in A-10 West), no postseason, final Kenpom: 81
2006: 21-11 (8-8, T7 in A-10), 14 seed in NCAAT (R1 loss to Gonzaga) after winning 4 games in 4 days in A-10 Tournament, final Kenpom: 54
2007: 7-3 start

2019: 19-16 (9-9, T3 in Big East), 3 seed in NIT (R2 OT loss at Texas), final Kenpom: 65
2020: 19-13 (8-10, T6 in Big East), no postseason (were squarely on the bubble and straddling cut line), final Kenpom: 45
2021: 4-0 start

Miller and Steele had fairly comparable circumstances as well. Both were promoted from Associate Head Coach. Both lost a lot from the previous year (Sato, Chalmers, and Myles and Bluiett, Macura, Kanter, O'Mara, and Gates). Steele has almost the same record as Miller through the same number of games despite facing a much tougher schedule.

I'm not saying Steele will be as successful as Miller (Miller went 75-21, .781, in his last 96 games). I'm still not sold on Steele. This year need to see some progress. But I'm also not sold that Steele is not the guy. Fair to criticize Steele for certain things but I can't judge whether he is a good coach or not yet.

[paulxu]

I'm a Steele supporter. Most all of the things that have happened I can chalk up to growing into the role.
I firmly believe that he'll get better at in game coaching and that the results will show.
Most importantly, I know that I'll never understand the game, or the pressures of coaching, at a high level.
Many of you have experience reading the nuances of those things I don't know, so I look to your comments for some insight...if you have coached before.

All that said, with the history of our program (see Ohio State tournament game) I am seriously disappointed in him not directing everyone in the long time out to foul the person who received the inbound pass with less than 2 seconds on the clock. No excuse to for that lapse..and a cause for concern.

I'm really looking forward to a full basketball season and hopefully one filled with excitement and fun for the team...and the fans.

[IM4X]

I've been critical of Steele - there are some things about him that remind me of Mick - throwing players under the bus in the press, terrible offensive philosophy, the "mean man" look on the sidelines, skipping out on pressers after laying eggs, etc, etc. I think he's been a bit overwhelmed in his first two years. But I also realize it took Miller and Mack a good two years to get comfortable in their own skin.

I'm not sold on him, but was willing to give him through this year. Still not sold. Only thing that will sell me is a NCAA berth. No more excuses.

I too am not sold on him yet either, though I do want to be -I really do!

He is a nice guy - never a prick. He is approachable and he seems to be a good role model for these kids. He is a tough recruiter. There is a lot to like about him.

That said, I feel sometimes in his attempt to try to prove his worthiness as a head coach he gets too caught up on wanting to sound like he is on top of everything with his calculated phrases used to sound like he has all of the answers... and in the process he sometimes loses focus on issues that better coaching could solve. There is nothing wrong with a young coaching staff having a few weakness, unless that coaching staff is unable to recognize that those weaknesses really exist and therefor don’t work on improving them.

The team is undefeated - so that is a positive.

Steele made it clear in the post game press conference that he spoke with his team that they “need to be better.” Sure, that sounds good. But What matters is that Steele now quits with the “I told the guys they need too...” crap and actually roll up his sleeves and show what steps he can take as a coach to make this team better every game in every area.

He can talk about the team needing to play harder and getting more loose balls- and that is fair and on the players to do. Many of the other things need to be fixed by the coaches, though. Being better at breaking the press, for instance, requires better coaching.

[xavierj]

I'm a Steele supporter. Most all of the things that have happened I can chalk up to growing into the role.
I firmly believe that he'll get better at in game coaching and that the results will show.
Most importantly, I know that I'll never understand the game, or the pressures of coaching, at a high level.
Many of you have experience reading the nuances of those things I don't know, so I look to your comments for some insight...if you have coached before.

All that said, with the history of our program (see Ohio State tournament game) I am seriously disappointed in him not directing everyone in the long time out to foul the person who received the inbound pass with less than 2 seconds on the clock. No excuse to for that lapse..and a cause for concern.

I'm really looking forward to a full basketball season and hopefully one filled with excitement and fun for the team...and the fans.

He addressed that and right or wrong it’s his philosophy. He said If they ball is taken out top he fouls, underneath he won’t because it’s too easy for them to catch and shoot and then you foul and perhaps lose if he makes it and gets fouled. As for the other situation in OT they tried to foul and didn’t get the call.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6IL1yNMIFg

25 turnovers....ugh

[GIMMFD]

My thoughts from last night were, wow what a shit show, glad it's over and at least we won, but I thought there were some positives from it too. How about Nate Johnson with those huge 3's in OT? Balls of steel right there, Freemantle and Carter played well, Odom though at times was frazzled by that press, that had block on a clean look of a 3 as well, I think our guys play pretty damn hard which is good. That could be important down the stretch in winning some scrappy games and not quitting. There's definitely a lot to improve on, but 4-0 is good enough for me right now.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

All that said, with the history of our program (see Ohio State tournament game) I am seriously disappointed in him not directing everyone in the long time out to foul the person who received the inbound pass with less than 2 seconds on the clock. No excuse to for that lapse..and a cause for concern.

.

In Steele's press conference today to talk about tomorrow's game vs. Tenn. Tech, Coach Steele said that Odom was instructed to make that very foul. Steele chalked up Odom's failure to so do to a "freshman mistake".

[XU 87]

I'm a Steele supporter. Most all of the things that have happened I can chalk up to growing into the role.
I firmly believe that he'll get better at in game coaching and that the results will show.
Most importantly, I know that I'll never understand the game, or the pressures of coaching, at a high level.
Many of you have experience reading the nuances of those things I don't know, so I look to your comments for some insight...if you have coached before.

All that said, with the history of our program (see Ohio State tournament game) I am seriously disappointed in him not directing everyone in the long time out to foul the person who received the inbound pass with less than 2 seconds on the clock. No excuse to for that lapse..and a cause for concern.

I'm really looking forward to a full basketball season and hopefully one filled with excitement and fun for the team...and the fans.

I was just reading some study from Kenpom which says that there is no statistical difference between fouling and not fouling in this situations. I was a little surprised to read that since I thought the stats say you should foul.

[paulxu]

He addressed that and right or wrong it’s his philosophy. He said If they ball is taken out top he fouls, underneath he won’t because it’s too easy for them to catch and shoot and then you foul and perhaps lose if he makes it and gets fouled. As for the other situation in OT they tried to foul and didn’t get the call.

That makes some sense.
But, most of the time you'll get time to foul. You can foul good enough to prevent the shot.
But...if memory serves, the guy who tied it off the inbound pass (who I thought was guarded by a big, not Odom) actually took one dribble.
Clearly could have been fouled while doing that.

6:48 Mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUzpE1ope_0

[JTG]

I have a question, What the hell is Graves job ? He came from Butler, and as much as I can't stand Butler, they are always fundamentally sound. They usually lose due to a lack of talent. Why hasn't any of that fundamental soundness rubbed off on X ? Just what is his job, Buying Steele's beer ?