Xavier v. Toledo (11/27/2020 - XU Invitational)

[paulxu]

https://www.brickeconomy.com/resources/images/sets/lego-8804-3_large.jpgVS. https://www.utoledo.edu/mascot/images/Breakdancing.png
XAVIER UNIVERSITY MUSKETEERS (2-0, 0-0 BIG EAST)
UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO ROCKETS (1-1, 0-0 MID-AMERICAN)
FRIDAY, NOV. 27, 2020 AT 12 P.M. ET
CINTAS CENTER IN CINCINNATI, OHIO

RADIO, TV AND LIVE STATS

Television: FS1 with play-by-play from Lane Grindle and analysis from Nick Bahe.
Radio: 700 WLW-AM with play-by-play from XU Hall of Famer and former Musketeer standout Joe Sunderman ('79). Analysis will be provided by Xavier Hall of Famer and XU all-time leading scorer Byron Larkin ('88). XU radio broadcast is also available on XM channel 380 and Internet 970.
Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com and fan stats at GoXavier.com.

[paulxu]

Which team will show up today?

101...or...51?

[muskiefan82]

Which team will show up today?

101...or...51?

76

[94GRAD]

76

69 duh!

[muskiefan82]

69 duh!

If we're going to "go down" this path, then 77

[Jesuit4Life]

Game won't be televised on FS1 due to a COVID-19 issue with the production crew: https://twitter.com/XavierMBB/status/1332366654278275073

GoXavier.com will have a stream

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[Jesuit4Life]

Stream link: https://goxavier.com/watch/?Live=2479&type=Live
https://twitter.com/XavierMBB/status/1332368011655725056

Disable your ad-blocker if you have issues

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[Xville]

Great start

[XUGRAD80]

Well this just sucks!

[paulxu]

Somebody tell our guys there's a game today.

[Xville]

Starting to see things from last year start to creep in again. Scruggs just taking the place of naji, and rest of the team standing around like statues.

[xuphan]

Starting to see things from last year start to creep in again. Scruggs just taking the place of naji, and rest of the team standing around like statues.

Great gameplan so far Steele

[X Factor]

I think what we saw vs Oakland was an aberration. This team doesn't look like it can shoot much better than last year.

[X Factor]

Keep your mouth shut Zach!

[xuphan]

What the heck did Freemantle do to get a Technical foul?

[X Factor]

Carter's offensive skill is sad

[xuwillie]

Brutal. New players same team offense.

[AviatorX]

Great gameplan so far Steele

Agreed. Definitely should have game planned to make more shots and not have your best player pick up 3 early fouls.

[xuphan]

Brutal. New players same team offense.

Are they just fatigued with our small bench. I hope this isn’t what we will be seeing throughout the year.

[bjf123]

Are they just fatigued with our small bench. I hope this isn’t what we will be seeing throughout the year.

Let’s hope that’s all it is.


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[Xville]

Offense looked so different in the first game, these last two games look just like last year.

[kellernr]

I thought Carter was supposed to be rebounding machine but he is always out of position our getting out muscled by smaller players

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[xuphan]

Offense looked so different in the first game, these last two games look just like last year.

Looks like the Scruggs/Freemantle show this year.

[bjf123]

I thought Carter was supposed to be rebounding machine but he is always out of position our getting out muscled by smaller players

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He’s our leading rebounder at the moment.


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[xuphan]

He’s our leading rebounder at the moment.


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Terrible defense in the paint Miles.

[kellernr]

Looks like the Scruggs/Freemantle show this year.Downside of that is Scruggs only shows up 1 half in each game. He hasn't put together 2 good halves in 3+ years.

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[paulxu]

I've never understood the coaches scrum at the foul line during a time out.
They seem to use over half the available time talking, and then come back to the players.

[bjf123]

I've never understood the coaches scrum at the foul line during a time out.
They seem to use over half the available time talking, and then come back to the players.

Glad to know I’m not the only one wondering about that.


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[X Factor]

Is it becoming a Xavier tradition when you become a senior you totally forget how to shoot the ball?

[xuphan]

Scruggs jacking up 3s early in the shot clock. Wonderful offense

[Xville]

Alright finally starting to resemble an offense!

[Muskie in dayton]

So glad we found Griffin - he can play. Especially since Miles is not ready to contribute much.

[JAPER]

Its very early in a unique environment, but my gut says this offense needs to take a few pages from the old Loyola Marymount Univ offensive playbook circa 1990. See Paul Westhead....

[Xville]

Thank goodness for tandy this half.

[bjf123]

How many drives to the basket are we going to miss? Ugh.


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[murray87]

Scruggs at the stripe is just brutal to watch

[bjf123]

Well that was a horrible half of basketball.


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[Xville]

That was interesting and very reminiscent of the last few years. Starting to wonder if Steele can coach...seriously.

I really hope im just overreacting, but this looks like the same shit.

[X Factor]

Scruggs at the stripe is just brutal to watch

Think he's 4-9 from the FT line this year...:sick:

[UCGRAD4X]

That was interesting and very reminiscent of the last few years. Starting to wonder if Steele can coach...seriously

I was going to say that this all looks eerily familiar.

What has changed?

Just the names.

[JAPER]

I'm probably overreacting but to put up enough points to win games later in Dec into 2021 this team needs alot more possessions...push the ball at every opportunity.

I'm generally happy with how the defense looks so far after 5 halves of hoops...

[xuphan]

That was interesting and very reminiscent of the last few years. Starting to wonder if Steele can coach...seriously

Did he promise Scruggs that if he came back he could take the Naji role? It worried me when Steele told 21 recruit Tucker that he reminds him of Naji. This type of offense won’t end well for Steele unless he has some conference player of the year type player in the quad.

[MauriceX]

Game won't be televised on FS1 due to a COVID-19 issue with the production crew: https://twitter.com/XavierMBB/status/1332366654278275073

GoXavier.com will have a stream

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For us cord-cutters, does GoXavier carry every basketball game? It obviously isn't the same quality of stream as FS1, but it is still pretty good.

[xu82]

From the halftime stats alone I’d expect us to be up a little, not down The 3 point% and FT’s the difference.

Per one guy at the game:

“Crew is cleaning backboards rims stanchions. Balls. Table tops.”

Doing the best they can! Wonder where FOX went wrong?

[Xuperman]

Think he's 4-9 from the FT line this year...:sick:

And 2-15 from 3.....TWO FOR FIFTEEN....Let that sink in.

He's making Naji look like Pistol Pete!

[AviatorX]

Love to see them play through Freemantle heavily to open this half and see where it takes them. I think he actually has that ability to calm things down through the post that Tyrique Jones was never consistent enough to accomplish. Then things will open up a bit on the wing for the shooters and X wins this by 10-15 points.

[Jesuit4Life]

For us cord-cutters, does GoXavier carry every basketball game? It obviously isn't the same quality of stream as FS1, but it is still pretty good.No, this is a special circumstance. FS1 definitely wouldn't allow this usually after they paid for broadcast rights.

That being said, the stream and announcing has been great.
https://twitter.com/XavierGameday/status/1332381765604872193

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[Xville]

the last thing carter should ever think to do is shoot

[X Factor]

If we lose to Toledo at home...

[bjf123]

18% vs. 58% from three ain’t gonna cut it.


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[xu82]

And 2-15 from 3.....TWO FOR FIFTEEN....Let that sink in.

He's making Naji look like Pistol Pete!

Remember 48 hours ago when we could shoot?

[AviatorX]

This is the first chance I'm getting to watch this group...have they run any Odom-Tandy-Scruggs-Carter-Freemantle? I'm not sure I want to pencil Nate Johnson in for starter minutes just yet (recognize Colby Jones will have a say here eventually).

[xuphan]

Poor defensively. At home to an average Toledo team and getting beat like this is unacceptable

[XU '11]

Poor defensively. At home to an average Toledo team and getting beat like this is unacceptable

8 healthy bodies. 3 games in 50 hours. They have to be gassed.

[xuphan]

8 healthy bodies. 3 games in 50 hours. They have to be gassed.

All of these kids played AAU ball. They should be use to this schedule.

[paulxu]

Another year of crap from 3, and I'll be in an early grave. The BE will eat us up and spit out what's left.

[xuphan]

Another year of crap from 3, and I'll be in an early grave. The BE will eat us up and spit out what's left.

Will you put Steele on the hot seat if that is true? Hope CJ can help us out from deep when he gets back.

[Xville]

8 healthy bodies. 3 games in 50 hours. They have to be gassed.

so is Toledo...that isn't a valid excuse

[Xville]

i see freemantle picked up the stupid o meter this year

[bjf123]

Incredibly stupid there, Zach!!!!!!!


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[paulxu]

Will you put Steele on the hot seat if that is true? Hope CJ can help us out from deep when he gets back.

Steele can't shoot the ball. We supposedly have some shooters. In our gym, rims and background, we should hit a few more.
It's the difference in the game right now.

[xuwillie]

I always thought steele was in over his head. Was hoping he’d be much better of a coach in his third year.

[xuphan]

I always thought steele was in over his head. Was hoping he’d be much better of a coach in his third year.

I worry about this season if Steele keeps Najiball as our offense this year with Scruggs playing that role. He needs to find a better offense and find it quickly. These are his players now so I don’t want to hear any excuses as this is his third year. We should see some improvements from last year.

[JAPER]

Is Freemental DQ'd for 2x T's?

[Xville]

odom and tandy should look to take it to the rim every possession

[xuwillie]

Exactly. And no excuses that steele can’t shoot for them. These are his players.

[bjf123]

Is Freemental DQ'd for 2x T's?

Yep!


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[xuphan]

Yep!


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These officials are as bad as Scruggs three point shooting.

[bjf123]

Yep!


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Apparently not!


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[JAPER]

Apparently not!


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Shocked he's in there...I guess it is just personal fouls...

[XU 23]

Playing Najiball again.

[xu82]

Shocked he's in there...I guess it is just personal fouls...

Said there is a distinction between classes of technical fouls. Learn something new every day!

[xuwillie]

Think we have to start calling it steeleball instead of najiball

[bjf123]

Said there is a distinction between classes of technical fouls. Learn something new every day!

Yep. I knew there was a Flagrant 1 and a Flagrant 2 personal foul. Did not about about Class A and Class B technicals.


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[XU 23]

Think we have to start calling it steeleball instead of najiball

You may be right. Did the offense look this bad during Miller’s third season?

[JAPER]

listening to Joe and Byron, Zach has only 4 personal fouls as well. You can't get rid of the guy! Good for X if true...

[American X]

Is it becoming a Xavier tradition when you become a senior you totally forget how to shoot the ball?

Becoming? That is a longstanding tradition since Gary Lumpkin. Hence, Lumpkinitis.

[Xville]

good gawd paul make a freaking free throw

[bjf123]

Free throws will cost us games again this year. When was the last time we had a decent FT percent? It’s been a few years.


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[Xville]

odom is a damn good one...so athletic

[murray87]

And some great hustle from Scruggs

[AviatorX]

Give Steele credit for a nicely called set on the Odom kick to Tandy for the go ahead corner 3. If they can hold on, is this the first title of the Steele era? Could be a big moment!

[Xville]

really enjoy watching odom and tandy...great backcourt pair that i hope only get better and better

[AviatorX]

really enjoy watching odom and tandy...great backcourt pair that i hope only get better and better

Agreed. I think Steele is quickly feeling out that those two should be on the court together. Will definitely be easier to manage with the full roster available for depth, as well.

[UCGRAD4X]

Zero inside game

[murray87]

This goxavier.com stream is pretty nice. And no annoying commercials.

[JAPER]

Lets see what happens after this X time-out. Big possession here...

[JAPER]

smart...just keep it simple. Tandy 1 v 1...production...

[Xville]

Zero inside game

kinda stinks we have to play carter as much as we do. he does some good things on defense but he is such a liability on offense and hurts the team on that side of the court. think we have a backcourt for the next few years, but really need Miles to progress to solidify a frontcourt.

[JAPER]

Paul did well in the final few minutes...could have passed that ball before pressure free throws but hit critical free throws and a tough fade-away...

[Xville]

two squeakers against average teams....glad they gutted them out, but hope they improve over the next month or the BE is going to be rough.

still...i'll take it...young guns growing into roles and transfers trying to figure it out....just hope they progress.

[murray87]

Whew!! Great game Tandy.

[AviatorX]

Paul did well in the final few minutes...could have passed that ball before pressure free throws but hit critical free throws and a tough fade-away...

15 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds on 6-10 from the field with 1 turnover. No way anyone can complain about that.

[Jesuit4Life]

Inaugural Xavier Invitational Champions

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[Xavier]

Young guys are pretty solid, really like the back court moving forward. (Expect some bumps but X is in good hands with them).

This team is already more fun to watch than last years team.

[bjf123]

Got to hope our shooters step up going forward. These last two games looked eerily familiar from behind the arc. We have to be better from 3 when we get to BE play.


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[N67ER]

In 2 games Carter has 24 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, and you are unhappy that he is playing? Methinks you are very focused on just offensive stats. Without his defense and rebounding, our record would be 1-2.

[AviatorX]

In 2 games Carter has 24 rebounds, 2 blocks, 3 steals, and you are unhappy that he is playing? Methinks you are very focused on just offensive stats. Without his defense and rebounding, our record would be 1-2.

Agree with this. Carter/Johnson as a 5th option is about what you'd expect as a bubble team, which this group projects to be. Hopefully Colby Jones is good enough to push those two down the rotation, but I think Carter will be a mainstay because he is a great glue guy.

[Jehoya]

the last thing carter should ever think to do is shoot

Amen, has he EVER made a meaningful shot his whole career?

[xu82]

This goxavier.com stream is pretty nice. And no annoying commercials.

I was VERY impressed with the production, particularly on short notice like that. The play by play guy was the roommate of Mel Cooleys son. I thought they did a terrific job!

[xu82]

Got to hope our shooters step up going forward. These last two games looked eerily familiar from behind the arc. We have to be better from 3 when we get to BE play.


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It was more than just missing shots. They didn’t move the ball the way they did against Oakland. Sometimes Scruggs would just dribble up with the look in his eye. It was just a matter of time. At least move the ball around and make them work!

Hopefully we have a couple shooters added when they finish quarantine. This is going to be a strange year in so many ways, I hope we finish it.

[XUGRAD80]

They played 3 games in 3 days to open the season, with only 8 players seeing any time. No doubt in mind that they had tired legs, which really effects shooting. But no absence of heart and grit. This team won that game because they played hard. They could have easily packed the tents when they got behind double figures early, but they didn’t. I’ll take a team like that everyday.

[muskiefan82]

101. Then 51. Then 76. Then went high, then low, then hit the EXACT middle between the two. It means nothing, but it's just odd.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Amen, has he EVER made a meaningful shot his whole career?

His late game free throws beat UConn last year.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

This board has become a very tough crowd; too tough I think. Last year was a shit show, for sure. But this year's team is young. We have only eight healthy scholarship players, no home court advantage to speak of and we've just won three straight games, two of which we should have lost. You can focus on why we almost lost those two games but I'm more interested in the wins we squeaked out. We definitely have some young talent that is fun to watch.

We are, maybe, a team which ends up in the middle of the B.E. this year. But I enjoy watching them play ten times more than what we put out there the last couple of years.

I was one who criticized Steele on this board the last couple of years. He deserved it, I think. But, the bad apples are gone and the new faces are Steele's recruits. I know M.O.R. is going come in here and make his points that we've proved nothing yet. Of course, when he does, he'll be correct. But, I see progress so Steele has my support.

[xudash]

They played 3 games in 3 days to open the season, with only 8 players seeing any time. No doubt in mind that they had tired legs, which really effects shooting. But no absence of heart and grit. This team won that game because they played hard. They could have easily packed the tents when they got behind double figures early, but they didn’t. I’ll take a team like that everyday.

I wonder if a coach can be responsible for the culture that enabled them to find a way to gut it out, since he apparently can be held responsible for poor shooting performances.

I agree with your take.

[xuwillie]

Of course he should get credit for the team playing hard. That being said you won’t win a lot of big east games with a team that can’t shoot.

[JTG]

I recorded what I thought was going to be the game. Is there a way to replay the stream ?

[xudash]

Of course he should get credit for the team playing hard. That being said you won’t win a lot of big east games with a team that can’t shoot.

I agree with your statement. He recruited shooters. Is it Steele’s fault when they “can’t shoot”? Is he a bad coach without a game plan when the ball isn’t going in the basket?

I’m not looking for any arguments here. It’s just that I believe Steele has clear game plans that aren’t always executed. Apparently, according to the local paper, he woke up a lethargic Tandy (from his Bradley effort).

[noteggs]

I recorded what I thought was going to be the game. Is there a way to replay the stream ?

Go to this link
https://goxavier.com/watch/

Scroll down until you see Live / On Demand
Click “On Demand” and you should see it there.

Fast forward to 11:45 mark, if you want to skip warmups and intro.

[xu82]

I agree with your statement. He recruited shooters. Is it Steele’s fault when they “can’t shoot”? Is he a bad coach without a game plan when the ball isn’t going in the basket?

I’m not looking for any arguments here. It’s just that I believe Steele has clear game plans that aren’t always executed. Apparently, according to the local paper, he woke up a lethargic Tandy (from his Bradley effort).

Steele knew what he needed and went out and got shooters. Three games in three days can indeed take a toll on your legs, IMO, especially when 2 of the shooters he brought in were locked up in hotel rooms. I liked that he mentioned those guys after the first game. Poor guys miss their first collegiate game. Hopefully they have terrific careers ahead of them.

[paulxu]

If the team runs a play, and springs a player for a wide open, uncontested shot...and he misses...that's not on the coach.

If someone decides to repetitively bring the ball down the court and play hero ball...to the teams detriment...it's on the coach, if he doesn't correct that and make the guy play team ball...or sit him down to get it into his head.

[bobbiemcgee]

I've been doing some research:

https://www.amazon.com/Gang-That-Couldnt-Shoot-Straight/dp/0316111740

[JTG]

Go to this link
https://goxavier.com/watch/

Scroll down until you see Live / On Demand
Click “On Demand” and you should see it there.

Fast forward to 11:45 mark, if you want to skip warmups and intro.

Thanks

[xuphan]

Steele knew what he needed and went out and got shooters. Three games in three days can indeed take a toll on your legs, IMO, especially when 2 of the shooters he brought in were locked up in hotel rooms. I liked that he mentioned those guys after the first game. Poor guys miss their first collegiate game. Hopefully they have terrific careers ahead of them.

I am not blaming Steele for players not making shots. I am however blaming him for the types of shots they are taking within his offensive game plan. Multiple times guys were trying to dribble and take step back 3s fading away. Taking contested 3s early in the shot clock. My hope is when Naji left Najiball would finally be behind us. After today, I am afraid this is the type of offense Steele wants to play which I do not see how we make a final four playing that style which is the ultimate goal. I don’t blame Steele for missed shots but I do blame him for the types of shots these guys are taking.

[xu82]

I am not blaming Steele for players not making shots. I am however blaming him for the types of shots they are taking within his offensive game plan. Multiple times guys were trying to dribble and take step back 3s fading away. Taking contested 3s early in the shot clock. My hope is when Naji left Najiball would finally be behind us. After today, I am afraid this is the type of offense Steele wants to play which I do not see how we make a final four playing that style which is the ultimate goal. I don’t blame Steele for missed shots but I do blame him for the types of shots these guys are taking.

The first game looked great, the next two not so much. I think the first game is what Steele wants to see, the last two....he allowed. That’s not good, but he had little time to work on doing anything about it with back to back to back games while shorthanded. Part of it may or may not have had something to do with having the legs to keep up game one for three straight days. We should know more in a month.

[XUGRAD80]

Phan....Xavier played a lineup in the 2nd half that they hadn’t even practicedwith before....4 guards and Carter. Therefore they had to completely throw out any offensive sets they had practiced. It was basically left up to a freshman, a sophomore, a transfer, and two seniors to figure it out on the fly. Some how they did just that and came from behind to win. Was it perfect? No. Where mistakes made? Yes. Are those mistakes correctable? Of course. Will they be corrected? Only time will tell, but I’m betting they will. I said the whole offseason that this was young team and that I really didn’t have high expectations for them this year. I also said that I expect this team to improve as the year goes on. I stand by all of that. Coming into this week I figured that the Bradley and Toledo games were toss ups. X somehow found a way to overcome some adversity and win both those games. I’m not going to worry about how they will play when they get into the BE. Not at this time. I’ll just take the season one game at a time and look to see how much better they get as the season goes on. They showed in the Oakland game just how well they can play when they are making shots. In the last two games they showed that even when they aren’t making shots, they won’t hang their heads and quit. That they will continue to compete. At this point, I’m satisfied with that.

[XUBob]

Realizing everyone is a bit frustrated the last two days, I think it is different than the last two years. I think the offense while still struggling is already looking better than last year. The looks are better, movement better, turnovers way down. Now if you are getting better looks you need to make the shot, so far not happening consistently. The biggest change I’ve seen is the last two days when not playing up to par the Muskies played really well for the last five minutes. I’m not sure last year’s team and the mettle or ability to close out close games much less come back and win. That is encouraging to me. Let’s rest up get ready for Monday and get to 4-0.

[xukeith]

Realizing everyone is a bit frustrated the last two days, I think it is different than the last two years. I think the offense while still struggling is already looking better than last year. The looks are better, movement better, turnovers way down. Now if you are getting better looks you need to make the shot, so far not happening consistently. The biggest change I’ve seen is the last two days when not playing up to par the Muskies played really well for the last five minutes. I’m not sure last year’s team and the mettle or ability to close out close games much less come back and win. That is encouraging to me. Let’s rest up get ready for Monday and get to 4-0.

X ,when adding Jones Kunkel and Wilcher, is a completely much better team. Shooting, easily will improve. I hope Odom and Tandy can get a lot better at drawing contact and making sure they hit both free throws. Their speed downhill then springing into the hair can turn into a staple.
Not sure when the quarantine is over , hoping soon.

[D-West & PO-Z]

15 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds on 6-10 from the field with 1 turnover. No way anyone can complain about that.

Careful, that might be considered a challenge! LOL

[D-West & PO-Z]

Got to hope our shooters step up going forward. These last two games looked eerily familiar from behind the arc. We have to be better from 3 when we get to BE play.


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Wilcher is a shooter right? How about Jones?

I get they are freshman but wasnt there talk Jones might be a starter?

Anyone know if they will be out for shootout? Either way I guess they will be pretty rusty from not having played or practiced for a while. As season goes on though hopefully adding those two into the mix gives Steele some more options to work with.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This board has become a very tough crowd; too tough I think. Last year was a shit show, for sure. But this year's team is young. We have only eight healthy scholarship players, no home court advantage to speak of and we've just won three straight games, two of which we should have lost. You can focus on why we almost lost those two games but I'm more interested in the wins we squeaked out. We definitely have some young talent that is fun to watch.

We are, maybe, a team which ends up in the middle of the B.E. this year. But I enjoy watching them play ten times more than what we put out there the last couple of years.

I was one who criticized Steele on this board the last couple of years. He deserved it, I think. But, the bad apples are gone and the new faces are Steele's recruits. I know M.O.R. is going come in here and make his points that we've proved nothing yet. Of course, when he does, he'll be correct. But, I see progress so Steele has my support.

I generally agree. In large part, I think, due to the unbelievable 3 year stretch we had right before Steele took over. That was maybe the best stretch in Xavier basketball history (not necessarily in tourney but reg season).

I think we should be better than what we have been the clock really starts for Steele now. He has his guys for the most part now. I think the future looks great with KyKy, Odom, and Freemantle. I think though there is going to be some real growing pains and ups and downs this year. Hoping to see good progress as season progresses though but I think a lot of us might be disappointed with the season overall if we have certain expectations for this year.

Glad to be 3-0 tho. Just win baby.

[XUGRAD80]

Realizing everyone is a bit frustrated the last two days, I think it is different than the last two years. I think the offense while still struggling is already looking better than last year. The looks are better, movement better, turnovers way down. Now if you are getting better looks you need to make the shot, so far not happening consistently. The biggest change I’ve seen is the last two days when not playing up to par the Muskies played really well for the last five minutes. I’m not sure last year’s team and the mettle or ability to close out close games much less come back and win. That is encouraging to me. Let’s rest up get ready for Monday and get to 4-0.

+1

[bobbiemcgee]

Anyone know if they will be out for shootout? Either way I guess they will be pretty rusty from not having played or practiced for a while. As season goes on though hopefully adding those two into the mix gives Steele some more options to work with.

"Our doctors felt like it was safe for our players to be able to play and that's why those three young men have to quarantine for the next 14 days, unfortunately," said Steele.

"Steele went on to say that his players cannot test out of quarantine. So, even if all three players continue to test negative, they have to stay in quarantine for the full 14 days."

Guess it depends on when they were quarantined.

[markchal]

Even when they don't play well or are learning lessons the hard way (Freemantle), this team is still a lot more fun to watch than last year's version.

[bleedXblue]

I really like our young guys. And we haven't seen Jones or Wilcher yet. Tandy, Free, Odom and Miles have all shown us (glimpses) of some really good play. That bodes well for the future. If Steele can figure out the right rotation and get these guys playing more consistently, we will have a pretty good team come Feb/March.

[xukeith]

Steele mentioned in the post game post game that X is a much better team with Kunkel(if gets a waiver), Jones and Wilcher.
Steele is really banking on his recruits to play high intelligent basketball.
I can't imagine 7 players splitting time between pg, sg, and small forward. I suspect play a lot depending on matchups. Maybe Tandy, Scruggs and Odom get 5-8 minutes less with Kunkel, Wilcher and Jones.
I really am impressed with the few turnovers. That helps a lot.

[bleedXblue]

Steele mentioned in the post game post game that X is a much better team with Kunkel(if gets a waiver), Jones and Wilcher.
Steele is really banking on his recruits to play high intelligent basketball.
I can't imagine 7 players splitting time between pg, sg, and small forward. I suspect play a lot depending on matchups. Maybe Tandy, Scruggs and Odom get 5-8 minutes less with Kunkel, Wilcher and Jones.
I really am impressed with the few turnovers. That helps a lot.

I think in 3 games, Odom has emerged as the starting PG. Period. He defends well and his ability to get into the lane and create shots is something we haven't seen in 3-4 years honestly. I think Jones is a bit more versatile than Wilcher, so I give him the nod with more minutes early. Agreed, so many guys and a lot of talent at the 1-2-3 positions. The beauty is that guys should be fresh and ready to go. Remember last year when Scruggs and Naji were logging 35+ minutes a game last year? Not ideal.

[Roach]

I really like our young guys. And we haven't seen Jones or Wilcher yet. Tandy, Free, Odom and Miles have all shown us (glimpses) of some really good play. That bodes well for the future. If Steele can figure out the right rotation and get these guys playing more consistently, we will have a pretty good team come Feb/March.

I think a bit too much is being made about the narrow wins against Bradley and Toledo. Aside from the fact that X was down three players to quarantine protocols, preseason tournaments rarely showcase teams at their best. These tourneys require teams to play 3 or 4 games in consecutive days, without a full season of conditioning under their belts and before a team has established its rhythm and regular rotation. I don’t think we can glean too much from the results, to be perfectly honest. I mean, Virginia lost to San Francisco yesterday. Ruminate on that for a while.

Once the quarantine is over, the rotation is deeper, and the team begins a regular schedule without playing games in consecutive days, hopefully we’ll see performance similar to that of the Oakland game and unlike that of the Bradley and Toledo games. Regardless, 3-0 is 3-0. For a young team early in the season, that’s something to build on.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I think a bit too much is being made about the narrow wins against Bradley and Toledo. Aside from the fact that X was down three players to quarantine protocols, preseason tournaments rarely showcase teams at their best. These tourneys require teams to play 3 or 4 games in consecutive days, without a full season of conditioning under their belts and before a team has established its rhythm and regular rotation. I don’t think we can glean too much from the results, to be perfectly honest. I mean, Virginia lost to San Francisco yesterday. Ruminate on that for a while.

Once the quarantine is over, the rotation is deeper, and the team begins a regular schedule without playing games in consecutive days, hopefully we’ll see performance similar to that of the Oakland game and unlike that of the Bradley and Toledo games. Regardless, 3-0 is 3-0. For a young team early in the season, that’s something to build on.

What I think I learned about his team from the last few games isn't so much their talent or potential. What I saw was heart. They turned a couple of losses into wins. Its not like they beat Gonzaga or Duke. But, they didn't quit. They didn't throw in the towel. They stuck with with and unquestionably got lucky. In the end, I saw character and I'll take it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

"Our doctors felt like it was safe for our players to be able to play and that's why those three young men have to quarantine for the next 14 days, unfortunately," said Steele.

"Steele went on to say that his players cannot test out of quarantine. So, even if all three players continue to test negative, they have to stay in quarantine for the full 14 days."

Guess it depends on when they were quarantined.

Thanks. Yeah guessing they miss it based on when we heard about quarantine and hearing that they were practicing.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think a bit too much is being made about the narrow wins against Bradley and Toledo. Aside from the fact that X was down three players to quarantine protocols, preseason tournaments rarely showcase teams at their best. These tourneys require teams to play 3 or 4 games in consecutive days, without a full season of conditioning under their belts and before a team has established its rhythm and regular rotation. I don’t think we can glean too much from the results, to be perfectly honest. I mean, Virginia lost to San Francisco yesterday. Ruminate on that for a while.

Once the quarantine is over, the rotation is deeper, and the team begins a regular schedule without playing games in consecutive days, hopefully we’ll see performance similar to that of the Oakland game and unlike that of the Bradley and Toledo games. Regardless, 3-0 is 3-0. For a young team early in the season, that’s something to build on.

Other than the three players - all of those things affect Toledo and Bradley - probably moreso being on the road. Tired of sugar coating crappy play against lower tear teams. It's Toledo and Bradley for crying out loud. Glad for the wins. Damn glad for the wins. But looking for signs of progress we;ve all been hoping for is sorely missing. In fact, it looks a lot like the same old same old.

There has been a great deal of excuse making and "only-time-will-tell"ing and cautiously optimisticing. I think we have been patient long enough. It's do or die with Travis.

[bobbiemcgee]

We just need 25-30 Game 1's.

[XUGRAD80]

But looking for signs of progress we;ve all been hoping for is sorely missing. In fact, it looks a lot like the same old same old.

There has been a great deal of excuse making and "only-time-will-tell"ing and cautiously optimisticing. I think we have been patient long enough. It's do or die with Travis.

Wow, I can hardly wait to see what people start posting after they LOSE a game! Heads are going to explode. LOL

Honestly.....what are people realistically expecting this year? A national championship?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Other than the three players - all of those things affect Toledo and Bradley - probably moreso being on the road. Tired of sugar coating crappy play against lower tear teams. It's Toledo and Bradley for crying out loud. Glad for the wins. Damn glad for the wins. But looking for signs of progress we;ve all been hoping for is sorely missing. In fact, it looks a lot like the same old same old.

There has been a great deal of excuse making and "only-time-will-tell"ing and cautiously optimisticing. I think we have been patient long enough. It's do or die with Travis.

In the immortal, oft repeated words of former tennis great John McEnroe.............You have GOT to be kidding me!

[Xville]

Wow, I can hardly wait to see what people start posting after they LOSE a game! Heads are going to explode. LOL

Honestly.....what are people realistically expecting this year? A national championship?

A tourney berth, which if they dont progress, that won't happen. Yes they are young, and lots of new faces, but 3 years without a tourney is absolutely unacceptable at Xavier. I see good things, but I also see instances where things look similar to last year. Maybe I'm just so scared from the horrible look of the last couple years. Lol

[xuphan]

A tourney berth, which if they dont progress, that won't happen. Yes they are young, and lots of new faces, but 3 years without a tourney is absolutely unacceptable at Xavier. I see good things, but I also see instances where things look similar to last year. Maybe I'm just so scared from the horrible look of the last couple years. Lol

This is Steele’s third season at X and the expectation for him should be NCAA tournament or bust. No excuses with Steele having his players now in the program. The talent is there but he needs to earn his money by coaching wins out of them. His seat should be very hot if we don’t make the tournament.

[XUGRAD80]

So you guys really EXPECT them to make the tourney? There is a reason that so many of the national forecasters have them picked 7-8 in the BE. Based on that, do you realistically expect the BE to send 7-8 teams to the tourney? Or do you believe that the forecasters have under rated this team? Taking into account where they are picked to finish in the BE, what their preseason RPI is, and the lack of OOC games they will have with which to pad their resume, I don’t see how anyone can realistically EXPECT to make the tourney this season.

The fact that it’s Steele’s 3rd year, or the idea that making the NCAA tourney should be the “expectation” every year, aren’t real reasons IMO. I DON’T expect this team to make the NCAA tourney, and don’t really expect it to finish .500 in the BE. I don’t see 6 other teams in the BE that it is better than. This is an NIT team this year.

Change my mind.

[Xville]

So you guys really EXPECT them to make the tourney? There is a reason that so many of the national forecasters have them picked 7-8 in the BE. Based on that, do you realistically expect the BE to send 7-8 teams to the tourney? Or do you believe that the forecasters have under rated this team? Taking into account where they are picked to finish in the BE, what their preseason RPI is, and the lack of OOC games they will have with which to pad their resume, I don’t see how anyone can realistically EXPECT to make the tourney this season.

The fact that it’s Steele’s 3rd year, or the idea that making the NCAA tourney should be the “expectation” every year, aren’t real reasons IMO. I DON’T expect this team to make the NCAA tourney, and don’t really expect it to finish .500 in the BE. I don’t see 6 other teams in the BE that it is better than. This is an NIT team this year.

Change my mind.

I dont necessarily disagree with a lot of this. However, it is an expectation at xavier to make the tournament. To not make it three years in a row is unacceptable and If that occurs, next year is absolutely make or break for Steele in my mind. I do think that talent wise, there is enough to make the tourney, and I do think they are being a bit underestimated by their be colleagues because of so many new faces.

Now if you want to say there isnt enough talent in year three, that is an indictment of Steele as well, is it not?

Personally, I feel the only way the team doesnt make the tourney is if najiball occurs too much

[xudash]

Fans will be fans and everyone is free to offer their opinions and perceptions.

Should Travis be on the hot seat at this point? Hell no, IMHO.

Finally mostly his guys now. COVID year realities. Mack clearly left us in a rebuilding mode with his recruiting vacuums.

Did you read the Cincinnati paper’s article about the game? Did you read the part about Travis going small in the second half in an effort to come up with a solution for regaining the momentum against Toledo? He was improvising on the fly, and it worked.

Importantly, I’ve argued forever about the importance of continuity in the head-coaching position. Who are two of the most dominant programs in the country today? I believe it is safe to say the answer is Gonzaga and Villanova, not in that order, of course. Jay Wright and Mark Few. Continuity. I imagine most Duke and Villanova fans are grateful that they were patient with Coach K and JW when they were first starting out, because they didn’t exactly come out of the gate as gangbusters.

We are 3-0. Yes, perhaps we should’ve won the second and third games by wider margins. Nonetheless, our kids showed grit, playing hard to pull out victories at the end.

Comparisons of outcomes may be a waste of time here, but I still give you:

- UVA losing to USF.

- #8 Illinois just getting past Ohio.

- Pepperdine taking the YTG to 3 OT’s.

- Seton Hall almost taking out Mack.

It’s college basketball. It is extremely early in the season. And the season itself is crazy because of COVID.

Finally, we are not even playing at full strength yet.

[XUGRAD80]

I think that what some people are doing is mixing up the words “goal” and “expectation”.

Making the NCAA tourney should be the minimum goal every year....I agree with that.

But, do I expect them to reach that goal this year? No, I do not.

Do I consider a failure to reach that goal acceptable? Normally, I would not. However, when I look at this roster, and look at the talented teams in the BE, and look at what college BB may look like this year with the limited schedule and the a COVID concerns, I will withhold judgment on that until after the season.

It could easily be a moot point because there is no tourney, or the size of the tourney is changed, or X has a lot of roster problems because of COVID and loses games with a depleted roster that they might otherwise have won. I’m trying to keep my expectations for this season realistic, and one of the expectations I have is that COVID will play havoc with the BE schedule at some point this season. We are seeing it with college and NFL football right now, and they play an outdoor sport with a much smaller number of games scheduled. I don’t see any scenario where COVID doesn’t shut this season down at some point. Hopefully it doesn’t shut down and stay shut down like last year, and there will be an NCAA tourney at some point. However, it’s also IMO completely reasonable to expect to have individual teams have to cancel games and there not be an even schedule among teams. There might even be schools that decide on their own to shut the season down for their team. There are just way to many unknowns about these players and the season for me to be optimistic about X making the NCAA tourney at the end of the year.

[paulxu]

Jay Wright's 3rd year...6-10 in conference/NIT

Coach K's 3rd year...3-11 in conference/no post season.

[xu82]

The season will be disrupted in some way, just like college football which is a MESS right now. Games cancelled and postponed. Hell, even when they DO play, Kentucky was missing 16 players to Covid today against UF. It would not have changed the outcome, but it demonstrates the struggles.

I hope X shows progress and promise, a better brand of bastekball and that we have some young guys to be excited about. I hope they get in as many games as possible and do so safely. Just give me some games to watch and some hope for NEXT year and I’ll be fine. Any more than that and I’m ecstatic.

[Xville]

Jay Wright's 3rd year...6-10 in conference/NIT

Coach K's 3rd year...3-11 in conference/no post season.

So can we expect a sweet 16 and elite eight in years 4 and 5 like wright, and a final in year 6 like k. Hate this comparison stuff.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Importantly, I’ve argued forever about the importance of continuity in the head-coaching position. Who are two of the most dominant programs in the country today? I believe it is safe to say the answer is Gonzaga and Villanova, not in that order, of course. Jay Wright and Mark Few. Continuity. I imagine most Duke and Villanova fans are grateful that they were patient with Coach K and JW when they were first starting out, because they didn’t exactly come out of the gate as gangbusters.



I do not understand why the above is lost on so many fans including more than a few on this board. Our team has, at the moment, eight scholarship players (four of whom had not, until three days ago, played together in a real game). They just finished three games in three days winning two games they [arguably] should have lost. And, the chorus on this board (participation on which should convey some appreciation and understanding of college basketball) is "fire Travis" or "get ready to fire Travis". While I believe this board works best when we are respectful of other's opinions, when I read some of the comments on this thread, I wonder what some of you are smoking.

What some of you suggest as action we should be consider is exactly the opposite of what is in the best interests of this program. It is exactly the wrong action if you want to advance Xavier basketball. It is exactly the perfectly wrong thing to do, much less consider, if you wish Xavier basketball to succeed.

[Xville]

I do not understand why the above is lost on so many fans including more than a few on this board. Our team has, at the moment, eight scholarship players (four of whom had not, until three days ago, played together in a real game). They just finished three games in three days winning two games they [arguably] should have lost. And, the chorus on this board (participation on which should convey some appreciation and understanding of college basketball) is "fire Travis" or "get ready to fire Travis". While I believe this board works best when we are respectful of other's opinions, when I read some of the comments on this thread, I wonder what some of you are smoking.

What some of you suggest as action we should be consider is exactly the opposite of what is in the best interests of this program. It is exactly the wrong action if you want to advance Xavier basketball. It is exactly the perfectly wrong thing to do, much less consider, if you wish Xavier basketball to succeed.

Are you all fine with travis if he doesnt make the tourney in his first 4 years? That's what I mean by make or break next year, IF he doesnt make the tourney this year. In no way am I saying fire travis this year, I would say that if he doesnt make it once by end of next season

[paulxu]

A tourney berth, which if they dont progress, that won't happen. Yes they are young, and lots of new faces, but 3 years without a tourney is absolutely unacceptable at Xavier. I see good things, but I also see instances where things look similar to last year. Maybe I'm just so scared from the horrible look of the last couple years. Lol


So can we expect a sweet 16 and elite eight in years 4 and 5 like wright, and a final in year 6 like k. Hate this comparison stuff.

Maybe so. But somehow 3 years without a tourney is absolutely unacceptable here, but they survived there.

[bobbiemcgee]

Coach Steele ain't no Jay Wright.

[xudash]

Are you all fine with travis if he doesnt make the tourney in his first 4 years? That's what I mean by make or break next year, IF he doesnt make the tourney this year. In no way am I saying fire travis this year, I would say that if he doesnt make it once by end of next season

I’m not sure why I would be worrying about next year at this point.

Please allow me to remind everyone here that we did not have Paul Scruggs for the last three games of last year, which certainly contributed to how last year‘s season ended. We probably would have beaten Butler at home with him. We most likely would have beaten DePaul in game one of the BET in New York. All of it ended up not mattering anyway, because of COVID.

Let’s see how this year plays out. Let’s see what the next infusion of talent looks like on the recruiting trail.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Are you all fine with travis if he doesnt make the tourney in his first 4 years? That's what I mean by make or break next year, IF he doesnt make the tourney this year. In no way am I saying fire travis this year, I would say that if he doesnt make it once by end of next season

My evaluation of Steele (and my level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction) is highly circumstantial. The way this team laid down last year, particularly against DePaul? I am totally not fine with that. That was an abomination and I hold both the coaches and the players responsible for that.

The way this year's team has fought and just kept grinding (and I'll stipulate for the record the teams they just played were OK, not great and probably not BE caliber)? I enjoy the hell out of these kids. I hold both the coaches and players responsible for that as well.

Steele started at the bottom and worked his way up. I'm partial to that as I bet are many others on this board. He wasn't loyal because he couldn't get a job somewhere else. Our friend Chris Mack wanted him at the junior college 90 minutes south on I-71. I'll bet Mack would have paid him, as senior assistant, something close to what he is now making at X. And, I love loyalty as much as I love starting in the mail room. But, that isn't a reason to keep Steele as our coach. A reason to keep him as our coach is progress. And, I see progress (or think I see it) where others on this board see a repeat of last year's debacle.

I recall my first big promotion (sadly, many years ago now). I was not ready. I'm sure others have had a similar experience so I won't belabor it. I thrashed and flailed my first couple of years. I was taken advantage of by some of my team members. I made some horrible decisions and I made a few terrible hires. But, I stuck it out. Most importantly, I was allowed to stick it out by those above me on the corporate food chain. I kept grinding, gained valuable experience and when I retired, a couple of years ago, my team and I had built a hugely successful, well regarded and highly profitable national business. It took some patience from people above me and patience from many people a few rungs down the ladder beneath me. And, it was a hugely humbling experience because, when I was promoted, I was young (like Steele) and it was my first big job (like Steele). I was such a fucking rookie. What I think I learned (which I practiced over the next three decades as I added managers below me) is to value continuity and effort as long as people are making progress. Sometimes that progress is only baby steps forward.

While I have been critical of Steele at times, I believe I see leadership and I believe I see progress. Of course, time will tell. But, I think he has earned time without the Xavier fan base looking over his shoulder and communicating this must be the year we see results. Success often occurs in stops and starts. It isn't generally a smooth process.

I like this team.

[xudash]

My evaluation of Steele (and my level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction) is highly circumstantial. The way this team laid down last year, particularly against DePaul? I am totally not fine with that. That was an abomination and I hold both the coaches and the players responsible for that.

The way this year's team has fought and just kept grinding (and I'll stipulate for the record the teams they just played were OK, not great and probably not BE caliber)? I enjoy the hell out of these kids. I hold both the coaches and players responsible for that as well.

Steele started at the bottom and worked his way up. I'm partial to that as I bet are many others on this board. He wasn't loyal because he couldn't get a job somewhere else. Our friend Chris Mack wanted him at the junior college 90 minutes south on I-71. I'll bet Mack would have paid him, as senior assistant, something close to what he is now making at X. And, I love loyalty as much as I love starting in the mail room. But, that isn't a reason to keep Steele as our coach. A reason to keep him as our coach is progress. And, I see progress (or think I see it) where others on this board see a repeat of last year's debacle.

I recall my first big promotion (sadly, many years ago now). I was not ready. I'm sure others have had a similar experience so I won't belabor it. I thrashed and flailed my first couple of years. I was taken advantage of by some of my team members. I made some horrible decisions and I made a few terrible hires. But, I stuck it out. Most importantly, I was allowed to stick it out by those above me on the corporate food chain. I kept grinding, gained valuable experience and when I retired, a couple of years ago, my team and I had built a hugely successful, well regarded and highly profitable national business. It took some patience from people above me and patience from many people a few rungs down the ladder beneath me. And, it was a hugely humbling experience because, when I was promoted, I was young (like Steele) and it was my first big job (like Steele). I was such a fucking rookie. What I think I learned (which I practiced over the next three decades as I added managers below me) is to value continuity and effort as long as people are making progress. Sometimes that progress is only baby steps forward.

While I have been critical of Steele at times, I believe I see leadership and I believe I see progress. Of course, time will tell. But, I think he has earned time without the Xavier fan base looking over his shoulder and communicating this must be the year we see results. Success often occurs in stops and starts. It isn't generally a smooth process.

I like this team.

Public reps.

[xu82]

My evaluation of Steele (and my level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction) is highly circumstantial. The way this team laid down last year, particularly against DePaul? I am totally not fine with that. That was an abomination and I hold both the coaches and the players responsible for that.

The way this year's team has fought and just kept grinding (and I'll stipulate for the record the teams they just played were OK, not great and probably not BE caliber)? I enjoy the hell out of these kids. I hold both the coaches and players responsible for that as well.

Steele started at the bottom and worked his way up. I'm partial to that as I bet are many others on this board. He wasn't loyal because he couldn't get a job somewhere else. Our friend Chris Mack wanted him at the junior college 90 minutes south on I-71. I'll bet Mack would have paid him, as senior assistant, something close to what he is now making at X. And, I love loyalty as much as I love starting in the mail room. But, that isn't a reason to keep Steele as our coach. A reason to keep him as our coach is progress. And, I see progress (or think I see it) where others on this board see a repeat of last year's debacle.

I recall my first big promotion (sadly, many years ago now). I was not ready. I'm sure others have had a similar experience so I won't belabor it. I thrashed and flailed my first couple of years. I was taken advantage of by some of my team members. I made some horrible decisions and I made a few terrible hires. But, I stuck it out. Most importantly, I was allowed to stick it out by those above me on the corporate food chain. I kept grinding, gained valuable experience and when I retired, a couple of years ago, my team and I had built a hugely successful, well regarded and highly profitable national business. It took some patience from people above me and patience from many people a few rungs down the ladder beneath me. And, it was a hugely humbling experience because, when I was promoted, I was young (like Steele) and it was my first big job (like Steele). I was such a fucking rookie. What I think I learned (which I practiced over the next three decades as I added managers below me) is to value continuity and effort as long as people are making progress. Sometimes that progress is only baby steps forward.

While I have been critical of Steele at times, I believe I see leadership and I believe I see progress. Of course, time will tell. But, I think he has earned time without the Xavier fan base looking over his shoulder and communicating this must be the year we see results. Success often occurs in stops and starts. It isn't generally a smooth process.

I like this team.


Public reps as well.

[xu82]

Broncos have to play tomorrow with no QB’s. All tested positive. Some WR who played QB at Wake Forest will step in.

How does this college hoops season play out with a dozen or so players?

apoport
@RapSheet
#Broncos WR Kendall Hinton will play plenty at QB tomorrow, source said. 2020! He did play QB for a few years at Wake Forest.


Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
The most 2020 scene of all: Denver's QBs were deemed high-risk, close contacts because they were not wearing their masks. The Broncos will hit the field Sunday against the Saints without a quarterback.

[Xuperman]

Other than the three players - all of those things affect Toledo and Bradley - probably moreso being on the road. Tired of sugar coating crappy play against lower tear teams. It's Toledo and Bradley for crying out loud. Glad for the wins. Damn glad for the wins. But looking for signs of progress we;ve all been hoping for is sorely missing. In fact, it looks a lot like the same old same old.

There has been a great deal of excuse making and "only-time-will-tell"ing and cautiously optimisticing. I think we have been patient long enough. It's do or die with Travis.

Lower tier teams? You are delusional. Can we please view the last 2 wins in proper context. BOTH of those teams are projected to challenge for league championships. Both have league POY candidates. We're not talking the MEAC here. The MVC is a tough conference and the MAC is very respectable at the top. Ask Illinois about OU.

[xu82]

Coach Steele ain't no Jay Wright.

Who is?

Let’s keep making progress. I hope he keeps growing, and I don’t want to turn into the Cleveland Browns of college basketball.

[xudash]

Coach Steele ain't no Jay Wright.

Jay Wright is 58 years old. It took him time to get to where he is now. It would be safe to argue that he really set the stage - created the culture for what is now Villanova basketball - in the last 10 years. So, it isn't unreasonable to think that he really got it going there starting when he was 48 - at the very least, when he was somewhere in his upper 40's.

Travis Steele is 39 years old. And he is in his 3rd year of being a HC, obviously.

No one is asking for Travis Steele "to be" a Jay Wright immediately. Thinking that Travis Steele should be a Jay Wright now or that anyone implied that he should be operating at such a level at this point in his career is ignorant.

[JEHARDI]

My evaluation of Steele (and my level of satisfaction or dissatisfaction) is highly circumstantial. The way this team laid down last year, particularly against DePaul? I am totally not fine with that. That was an abomination and I hold both the coaches and the players responsible for that.

The way this year's team has fought and just kept grinding (and I'll stipulate for the record the teams they just played were OK, not great and probably not BE caliber)? I enjoy the hell out of these kids. I hold both the coaches and players responsible for that as well.

Steele started at the bottom and worked his way up. I'm partial to that as I bet are many others on this board. He wasn't loyal because he couldn't get a job somewhere else. Our friend Chris Mack wanted him at the junior college 90 minutes south on I-71. I'll bet Mack would have paid him, as senior assistant, something close to what he is now making at X. And, I love loyalty as much as I love starting in the mail room. But, that isn't a reason to keep Steele as our coach. A reason to keep him as our coach is progress. And, I see progress (or think I see it) where others on this board see a repeat of last year's debacle.

I recall my first big promotion (sadly, many years ago now). I was not ready. I'm sure others have had a similar experience so I won't belabor it. I thrashed and flailed my first couple of years. I was taken advantage of by some of my team members. I made some horrible decisions and I made a few terrible hires. But, I stuck it out. Most importantly, I was allowed to stick it out by those above me on the corporate food chain. I kept grinding, gained valuable experience and when I retired, a couple of years ago, my team and I had built a hugely successful, well regarded and highly profitable national business. It took some patience from people above me and patience from many people a few rungs down the ladder beneath me. And, it was a hugely humbling experience because, when I was promoted, I was young (like Steele) and it was my first big job (like Steele). I was such a fucking rookie. What I think I learned (which I practiced over the next three decades as I added managers below me) is to value continuity and effort as long as people are making progress. Sometimes that progress is only baby steps forward.

While I have been critical of Steele at times, I believe I see leadership and I believe I see progress. Of course, time will tell. But, I think he has earned time without the Xavier fan base looking over his shoulder and communicating this must be the year we see results. Success often occurs in stops and starts. It isn't generally a smooth process.

I like this team.

Well said!

[xu82]

Jay Wright is 58 years old. It took him time to get to where he is now. It would be safe to argue that he really set the stage - created the culture for what is now Villanova basketball - in the last 10 years. So, it isn't unreasonable to think that he really got it going there starting when he was 48 - at the very least, when he was somewhere in his upper 40's.

Travis Steele is 39 years old. And he is in his 3rd year of being a HC, obviously.

No one is asking for Travis Steele "to be" a Jay Wright immediately. Thinking that Travis Steele should be a Jay Wright now or that anyone implied that he should be operating at such a level at this point in his career is ignorant.

What he said is all I have to offer.

I think it was in jest, so I’ll take it in that light.


.

[bobbiemcgee]

obviously.

Thinking that Travis Steele should be a Jay Wright now or that anyone implied.

Never implied that. Just stated a fact. Guess you're saying we should wait 10 more years. sorry, unacceptable.

[XUGRAD80]

Never implied that. Just stated a fact. Guess you're saying we should wait 10 more years. sorry, unacceptable.

What is being said is that less than “acceptable” past performance is not a guarantee of future failure.

What is being pointed out is that many of those coaches that are currently at the top of the heap had to earn that spot. Many of them struggled for a number of years while they were building their programs. Steele is still building his program. He is still building the roster. Meanwhile he is competing in what many argue is the best conference in the country. He isn’t competing agains the MCC and A10 schools that most of the great past X coaches competed against. Sure, his recruits are better than those coaches had, but so are the recruits in the schools they are competing against. On paper, they’ve had 2 really good recruiting classes, but those players are still underclassman, and the roster still isn’t complete.

Past good performance is no guarantee of future success, either.
Some other coaches started out having great success for a few years, but flamed out after that.

[UCGRAD4X]

Lower tier teams? You are delusional. Can we please view the last 2 wins in proper context. BOTH of those teams are projected to challenge for league championships. Both have league POY candidates. We're not talking the MEAC here. The MVC is a tough conference and the MAC is very respectable at the top. Ask Illinois about OU.

So you think this 'tier' is where this program should be?

MAC and MVC is an acceptable level with which we should settle for at Xavier?

I'm sorry you find that 'delusional'.

[Xville]

Lots of avoiding the actual question. Are you all ok with Steele if the team misses the tournament the next two years? that's the question that was posed. Some are misinterpreting a lot of what is being said as if I'm saying we need to fire Steele right this moment, or after the season.

I see progress, and I like the talent that exists in the freshmen and sophomore year classes. However, the last two games I have also seen a few disturbing trends from last year. Those can be overcome against mac and mvc teams, not against be teams. That's the cause for my concern.

My hope is that Steele is the right guy, the team continues to progress this year, and we have the continuity of 20 plus coaching years from the same guy with a whole lot of success.

[XUGRAD80]

Not avoiding any question, just reacting to some of the comments made about “do or die” and what is or isn’t “acceptable”.

As far as your question...it assumes that there will be a normal season this year, followed by a normal tournament. I think that at this point that is a lot to assume.

My personal opinion is that it’s far to early to even begin discussing Steele’s future as the head coach at Xavier. I only hope that the people that ACTUALLY have to make these decisions aren’t making them based on message board banter and opinions.

[UCGRAD4X]

Lots of avoiding the actual question. Are you all ok with Steele if the team misses the tournament the next two years? that's the question that was posed. Some are misinterpreting a lot of what is being said as if I'm saying we need to fire Steele right this moment, or after the season.

I see progress, and I like the talent that exists in the freshmen and sophomore year classes. However, the last two games I have also seen a few disturbing trends from last year. Those can be overcome against mac and mvc teams, not against be teams. That's the cause for my concern.

My hope is that Steele is the right guy, the team continues to progress this year, and we have the continuity of 20 plus coaching years from the same guy with a whole lot of success.

I expect to see steady, obvious and systematic improvement. Not dribs and drabs and occasional glimpses. Not potentials and maybes and fingers crossed.

Yes - 'time will tell' - many have said.

I'm just wondering if it already has.

[XUGRAD80]

I expect to see steady, obvious and systematic improvement. Not dribs and drabs and occasional glimpses. Not potentials and maybes and fingers crossed.

Yes - 'time will tell' - many have said.

I'm just wondering if it already has.

Hmm..I wonder if you realize that of the 7 players that signed with X and could be seniors or juniors this year, only ONE remains...Scruggs. Those were Mack’s last 2 recruiting classes, and neither of them was highly rated to begin with. Steele has not had much of a real roster to work with and has had to patch it together as he went along. Based on the limited roster he has had to work with his 1st two years, it seems premature to me to base his abilities on those years alone.

[Section 200]

I think Steele is lucky that last year & this year will be quickly forgotten due to COVID. That gives him time to get us ready for 2021-2022 season when hopefully things are closer to normal.

Its a blessing that we get to rebuild during this time. One could argue that we shouldn't have needed to rebuild, but it happened so here we are.

[Xavier]

With how COVID is impacting the university I’m not sure they will be in position to fire and afford a buy out any time soon.

I am very critical of Steele. I didn’t like the hire in the first place and we all know how tough the last two years are. But for the first time in his coaching career I see promise in the future. KyKy and Fremantle as sophomores, Odom already showing high level talent (and potential), while still not seeing what two of the other freshman have. Kunkel in the pipeline for two years. I finally am starting to see the program in good hands with the young talent. There will be bumps but I am pretty confident they are a tournament team this year.

That isn’t to say Travis has been a good coach. But the young talent has shown and given me hope for him turning things around.

*By the way, it is infuriating watching opponents have a strong first half run and Steele never calling a time out. He loves holding on to that for the end of the half, it’s crazy.

[bleedXblue]

I think this year (depending on how many games are played) I'd like to see Steele show some real promise as a head coach. Mainly around a style of play and tactical decision making. I know a lot of the (style of play) is built around how you recruit and the players skill levels. I THINK we are starting to see some of this. Hope it continues to evolve and we see a much better shooting team and much better decision making. I do struggle with his in game decision making and really wonder at times if he can "coach" and "motivate" players. Example is benching KyKy in the 2nd half of the Bradley game for defensive reasons. Ok, I sort of get it, but KyKy's our best pure scorer and shooter. We surely could have used him (situationally) a little more in the 2nd half instead of a straight benching. I don't get the messaging (2nd game into the year) with game that we should not lose (and should have).

[JTG]

Holy crap, three games in, all wins btw, and Steele sucks ? How about we at least wait until Wilcher, Jones and maybe Kunkle �� play a few games ? People bitching about Tandy's defense ? Heck, Bluiett couldn't guard a lamp post for most of his career. 3 games in 3 days with 8 players , maybe wait until we play the next 3 games. If next week we're 4-2, then have at it. But we probably should wait until we're closer to full strength with 4 or 5 games to spaz out. I'm impressed we didn't fold in games 2 and 3 , and found a way to win.

[xuphan]

Hmm..I wonder if you realize that of the 7 players that signed with X and could be seniors or juniors this year, only ONE remains...Scruggs. Those were Mack’s last 2 recruiting classes, and neither of them was highly rated to begin with. Steele has not had much of a real roster to work with and has had to patch it together as he went along. Based on the limited roster he has had to work with his 1st two years, it seems premature to me to base his abilities on those years alone.

Cant keep blaming Mack forever. This is Steele’s third year in charge. This is his team with his players and it’s time to start seeing a big leap from the below average expectations we have seen the past two years. Most here seem to think Steele is doing an ok job but are tired of seeing Najiball. The last two games have seemed to show that Najiball is still being played which is worrying.

[XU 87]

Cant keep blaming Mack forever. This is Steele’s third year in charge.

While I agree, there is little dispute that Steele inherited a roster that was a mess. He lost the stop three scorers from the year before, and he had virtually no in-coming recruiting class. It took more than one recruiting class to dig out of that hole.

But I am concerned about the lack of movement on the offense in games 2 and 3.

P.S. I just read in the Enquirer that Steele said that after Freemantle got in foul trouble, they had to scrap the offense and go with a four guard lineup they had never run before.

[UCGRAD4X]

I want to be clear, I have never and am not now saying Travis should be fired. But the arguments I hear for the acceptance of mediocrity and lack of progress is all hope and no change. Mack left the cupboard bare. Players graduate (um, yeah). Whatever happened to "reloading" (I know...Mack's fault - how long are we going to hang our hat on that tired diatribe?)

A lot of, "Do you realize....?" Thanks for the condescending concern for my edumacation. Admittedly, a doctorate from UC is hardly wirth middel sckool learnin'.

All I want to add are two more points:

First - I think it is almost universally accepted here that, despite the glimmers of hope and promise and potential (those words again), not much progress, if any, is evident. Is that too much to ask? After in his third year at the helm we should see more than the same old same old? Is our benchmark the MAC and MVC, who even in the A10, we found inferior and would resent being compared with as a 'mid-major' (that debate and consternation went on for ages). That's all I'm really arguing for; proof not promise.

I don't think we should accept anything less than excellence. How that is measured is up to each individual. Don't hate on me for expecting more and having a different opinion of what that might look like and how long that might take.

Ok, one more, sue me. I know, such and such a coach had difficulty in their first few years (part of my learnin' it would seem4). For every one of those I can probably find ten that started out that way and never got better - or started out better and got worse.

I expect more. Don't you?

[XU 87]

It's simply a fact that Steele inherited a depleted roster with virtually nothing coming in to replace it. Pointing that out is being factual, not condescending. And being factual does not then mean that I am now accepting mediocrity.

[XUGRAD80]

Cant keep blaming Mack forever. This is Steele’s third year in charge. This is his team with his players and it’s time to start seeing a big leap from the below average expectations we have seen the past two years. Most here seem to think Steele is doing an ok job but are tired of seeing Najiball. The last two games have seemed to show that Najiball is still being played which is worrying.

Please describe what you mean by Najiball.

[xuwillie]

Nani ball: Zero ball movement.... 1 on 1 ball. Everyone else just watches the guy with the ball. Very concerning that we are already seeing this style again this year.

[xudash]

I think this year (depending on how many games are played) I'd like to see Steele show some real promise as a head coach. Mainly around a style of play and tactical decision making. I know a lot of the (style of play) is built around how you recruit and the players skill levels. I THINK we are starting to see some of this. Hope it continues to evolve and we see a much better shooting team and much better decision making. I do struggle with his in game decision making and really wonder at times if he can "coach" and "motivate" players. Example is benching KyKy in the 2nd half of the Bradley game for defensive reasons. Ok, I sort of get it, but KyKy's our best pure scorer and shooter. We surely could have used him (situationally) a little more in the 2nd half instead of a straight benching. I don't get the messaging (2nd game into the year) with game that we should not lose (and should have).

He was sending KyKy a message. KyKy got the message: he pumped in 24 against Toledo, becoming the key performance and reason why we won the game.

[xudash]

Cant keep blaming Mack forever. This is Steele’s third year in charge. This is his team with his players and it’s time to start seeing a big leap from the below average expectations we have seen the past two years. Most here seem to think Steele is doing an ok job but are tired of seeing Najiball. The last two games have seemed to show that Najiball is still being played which is worrying.

Technically speaking, it’s his team with his players next season.

But God bless Paul for sticking around.

[xuphan]

Nani ball: Zero ball movement.... 1 on 1 ball. Everyone else just watches the guy with the ball. Very concerning that we are already seeing this style again this year.

Pretty good explanation of Najiball. Mack did leave the roster pretty depleted when he left but that was over 3 years ago now. I was fine giving Steele a pass the first two years for him to get his players. Steele has had the opportunity to bring in his guys whether they be transfers or high school recruits. He has done a pretty good job recruiting high school kids and it has been hit or miss with transfers. My point is that these are his players that he recruited now. After 3 years, we should be seeing improvements and so far it seems to be a lot of the same as it has been the previous years. Najiball, poor 3 point shooting, poor free throws continue to be a staple of this program for some reason. When do we stop blaming Mack and start expecting Steele to live up to the expectations of the program?

[waggy]

What people want, and what people can afford, are usually different things. You want a coach that has it all? ... $5M/year. There is simply nothing out there that is a surefire upgrade in X's price range.

I like the guards we have recruited. Excited to see the new wings, I think they are going to be good as well. As always, great post players are the hardest to get. Big fan of Miles, but he is young. Needs time. This season Jason Carter is MIP.

[xudash]

I want to be clear, I have never and am not now saying Travis should be fired. But the arguments I hear for the acceptance of mediocrity and lack of progress is all hope and no change. Mack left the cupboard bare. Players graduate (um, yeah). Whatever happened to "reloading" (I know...Mack's fault - how long are we going to hang our hat on that tired diatribe?)

A lot of, "Do you realize....?" Thanks for the condescending concern for my edumacation. Admittedly, a doctorate from UC is hardly wirth middel sckool learnin'.

All I want to add are two more points:

First - I think it is almost universally accepted here that, despite the glimmers of hope and promise and potential (those words again), not much progress, if any, is evident. Is that too much to ask? After in his third year at the helm we should see more than the same old same old? Is our benchmark the MAC and MVC, who even in the A10, we found inferior and would resent being compared with as a 'mid-major' (that debate and consternation went on for ages). That's all I'm really arguing for; proof not promise.

I don't think we should accept anything less than excellence. How that is measured is up to each individual. Don't hate on me for expecting more and having a different opinion of what that might look like and how long that might take.

Ok, one more, sue me. I know, such and such a coach had difficulty in their first few years (part of my learnin' it would seem4). For every one of those I can probably find ten that started out that way and never got better - or started out better and got worse.

I expect more. Don't you?

Yes. I believe we all have high expectations. We’re Xavier; we’vE been conditioned to expect success.

I agree with your point about benchmarking/standards - we don’t swim with A10, MVC, MAC, et al schools.

I agree - everyone probably agrees - that we need to see progress overall and intelligent coaching in particular. I’d simply like to suggest we need to be careful about grading the latter. Case in point: the 4-guard lineup in the second half of the Toledo game. Total improvisation. Didn’t practice it. No playbook for it. It enabled X to turn the game around and win.

There is a camp here that bases its thoughts and views through a context that places an emphasis on allowing a new coach time to fully implement his plan, that recognizes that this coach, in particular, has had to fight through a rebuilding process, locker room intrigue last year, and the truly queer impact of COVID.

There otherwise is a camp here who “has seen enough, or it is close to it, believing that Steele isn’t the guy and that he isn’t going to get there.

We’re into it now. We’re still in a transitional period - sorry, but there is no other way to look at it: it is his THIRD year, he’s still rebuilding the roster, and we now get to watch 2020 virusball.

We are all looking for progress. I hope we get Jones, Wilcher and Kunkel back/in soon so that we can really see what we’ve got.

We are 3-0, having had to find a way to pull out 2 close games. Hopefully, we build from here.

[Xavier]

Ok, one more, sue me. I know, such and such a coach had difficulty in their first few years (part of my learnin' it would seem4). For every one of those I can probably find ten that started out that way and never got better - or started out better and got worse.

I expect more. Don't you?

*insert Miller and Mack, the two best coaches in Xavier history.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I want to be clear, I have never and am not now saying Travis should be fired. But the arguments I hear for the acceptance of mediocrity and lack of progress is all hope and no change. Mack left the cupboard bare. Players graduate (um, yeah). Whatever happened to "reloading" (I know...Mack's fault - how long are we going to hang our hat on that tired diatribe?)

A lot of, "Do you realize....?" Thanks for the condescending concern for my edumacation. Admittedly, a doctorate from UC is hardly wirth middel sckool learnin'.

All I want to add are two more points:

First - I think it is almost universally accepted here that, despite the glimmers of hope and promise and potential (those words again), not much progress, if any, is evident. Is that too much to ask? After in his third year at the helm we should see more than the same old same old? Is our benchmark the MAC and MVC, who even in the A10, we found inferior and would resent being compared with as a 'mid-major' (that debate and consternation went on for ages). That's all I'm really arguing for; proof not promise.

I don't think we should accept anything less than excellence. How that is measured is up to each individual. Don't hate on me for expecting more and having a different opinion of what that might look like and how long that might take.

Ok, one more, sue me. I know, such and such a coach had difficulty in their first few years (part of my learnin' it would seem4). For every one of those I can probably find ten that started out that way and never got better - or started out better and got worse.

I expect more. Don't you?

This is a good thread because it exposes the divisions among posters.

I reject your premise. There is not universal agreement there has been no progress. If you read the posts associated with this thread you could reach that conclusion rather easily. There has been progress. We are 3-0 playing better basketball with only eight healthy scholarship players, half of whom (since you said you went to U.C., I'll point out that 50% of eight is four) had never played in a game with anyone else on this team just one week ago. So, let me say that again. We have eight healthy scholarship players and only four of them have ever played a game together. Yet, we won three games in three days. That's progress.

In addition when I look at individual personnel we have better players than last year. That's progress. When I look at team chemistry I see players playing together and communicated better. That's progress. When I look at the adjustments Coach Steele made over the last three games, I see creative decisions and a willingness to try new player combinations. That, too, is progress.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say board posters are "hating on you". Do you mean others disagree with you? If that is what you mean, why not say that? I don't hate you for posting ideas with which I disagree. I support your expressing your opinions. It makes for good debate even if your thinking is incomplete, your prose filled with jargon and your overall message garbled.

[bleedXblue]

He was sending KyKy a message. KyKy got the message: he pumped in 24 against Toledo, becoming the key performance and reason why we won the game.

How was his defense against Toledo? You want to know the answer? Who gives a sh*#. We need his scoring and offense. That's the point.

[xudash]

This is a good thread because it exposes the divisions among posters.

I reject your premise. There is not universal agreement there has been no progress. If you read the posts associated with this thread you could reach that conclusion rather easily. There has been progress. We are 3-0 playing better basketball with only eight healthy scholarship players, half of whom (since you said you went to U.C., I'll point out that 50% of eight is four) had never played in a game with anyone else on this team just one week ago. So, let me say that again. We have eight healthy scholarship players and only four of them have ever played a game together. Yet, we won three games in three days. That's progress.

In addition when I look at individual personnel we have better players than last year. That's progress. When I look at team chemistry I see players playing together and communicated better. That's progress. When I look at the adjustments Coach Steele made over the last three games, I see creative decisions and a willingness to try new player combinations. That, too, is progress.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say board posters are "hating on you". Do you mean others disagree with you? If that is what you mean, why not say that? I don't hate you for posting ideas with which I disagree. I support your expressing your opinions. It makes for good debate even if your thinking is incomplete, your prose filled with jargon and your overall message garbled.

Last season, we brilliantly managed an average of 13.9 TO’s per game. YTD through 3 games, we’re tracking at 9.7. Last year was a shit show with TO’s, cardiac stress every time the ball went up behind the arc, the Gooden/Naji effect, frequent poor play to end a half or begin the second half.

Nothing like any of that this season, save for the poor shooting performance against Bradley (couldn’t watch the Toledo game).

Team chemistry and heart appear to be rock solid with this bunch. That’s culture - that’s Steele.

[waggy]

Who gives a sh*#. Oh man, the head coach has to have every player, even the cog, give 100% on the defensive end. I agree with the coach the player should sit if he isn't engaged defensively.

[bobbiemcgee]

That’s culture - that’s Steele.

Guess I missed this last year.

[xudash]

Guess I missed this last year.

Don’t worry about it. - you miss a lot of things.

[xukeith]

*insert Miller and Mack, the two best coaches in Xavier history.

I will take Miller or Matta.

[bleedXblue]

Oh man, the head coach has to have every player, even the cog, give 100% on the defensive end. I agree with the coach the player should sit if he isn't engaged defensively.

Bluiett didn't defend well and he played 35 minutes a game. In a perfect world, yeah maximum effort is always expected. The reality is that we need to get KyKy to a point where he's a decent defender and plays more consistently.

[XUGRAD80]

How was his defense against Toledo? You want to know the answer? Who gives a sh*#. We need his scoring and offense. That's the point.

It appears that the HC gives a sh*#, and since he is the one that decides who plays and who doesn’t, I’m guessing that KyKy understands that now.

I’d bet you could ask any HOF coach you care to talk with and they would also give a sh*#. Offense and defense don’t have to be either-or. It is quite possible to be good on both ends of the court. The great players, and the great teams, excel in all areas of the game. As Steele pointed out in his remarks, often time playing good defense is more a matter of “want to”, than anything else. KyKy’s problem in the Bradley game was that he didn’t seem to have the desire to play defense, so Steele sat him down. Good for him. People have complained for the last year that Steele wouldn’t discipline certain players on last years team. That he let them do what they wanted. Now he sits a player that isn’t playing hard enough to suit him, and people want to criticize him for that? Wow, just wow.

[Xavier]

Not to mention- the kid is a sophomore. You want it ingrained in him that he doesn't need to work on Defense already?

[Xville]

It appears that the HC gives a sh*#, and since he is the one that decides who plays and who doesn’t, I’m guessing that KyKy understands that now.

I’d bet you could ask any HOF coach you care to talk with and they would also give a sh*#. Offense and defense don’t have to be either-or. It is quite possible to be good on both ends of the court. The great players, and the great teams, excel in all areas of the game. As Steele pointed out in his remarks, often time playing good defense is more a matter of “want to”, than anything else. KyKy’s problem in the Bradley game was that he didn’t seem to have the desire to play defense, so Steele sat him down. Good for him. People have complained for the last year that Steele wouldn’t discipline certain players on last years team. That he let them do what they wanted. Now he sits a player that isn’t playing hard enough to suit him, and people want to criticize him for that? Wow, just wow.

yeah i have no problem with him benching Kyky, I welcome it. I wonder then why the heck Naji and Q were able to play hero ball time after time without discipline then? I wonder if it was a case of them either being holdovers from the old regime, or if Steele was concerned that the locker room would be so toxic if Steele were to dare question them.

[bleedXblue]

It appears that the HC gives a sh*#, and since he is the one that decides who plays and who doesn’t, I’m guessing that KyKy understands that now.

I’d bet you could ask any HOF coach you care to talk with and they would also give a sh*#. Offense and defense don’t have to be either-or. It is quite possible to be good on both ends of the court. The great players, and the great teams, excel in all areas of the game. As Steele pointed out in his remarks, often time playing good defense is more a matter of “want to”, than anything else. KyKy’s problem in the Bradley game was that he didn’t seem to have the desire to play defense, so Steele sat him down. Good for him. People have complained for the last year that Steele wouldn’t discipline certain players on last years team. That he let them do what they wanted. Now he sits a player that isn’t playing hard enough to suit him, and people want to criticize him for that? Wow, just wow.

Well of course my comments were taken out of context......

Of course I want accountability and of course I want KyKy to play hard 100% of the time. I want that for every player on the roster. My point was that we really needed Tandy in the 2nd half of the Bradley game. He's our best shooter and can change the game with just 2-3 possessions. We don't have anyone else like him. Everyone on this board knows that should have been a loss and we dodged a serious bullet. I thought Steele could have handled it differently 1.5 games into the year. If we have this issue in January, that's a different situation.

[boozehound]

yeah i have no problem with him benching Kyky, I welcome it. I wonder then why the heck Naji and Q were able to play hero ball time after time without discipline then? I wonder if it was a case of them either being holdovers from the old regime, or if Steele was concerned that the locker room would be so toxic if Steele were to dare question them.

I'm sure it's a lot harder to bench upperclassmen who are major contributors in your second year as a coach. It might have less to do with them being holdovers, and more to do with him not wanting to alienate the locker room.

Q was a tough one - I thought he generally hustled and worked on defense. His shot selection wasn't atrocious. He just couldn't make a shot.

Naji was our go-to player, and he could make some crazy things happen, but his decision making was pretty suspect at times.

I think that the biggest problems under Steele have been two things: Piss poor perimeter shooting, and highly suspect PG play and ball handling. Hell, we were so bad at the point last year that we had Naji initiating the offense pretty regularly. If you want to compete at the level Xavier wants to compete at you have to have a PG every year. You also need some level of perimeter shooting in most instances, and you need it from at least 2-3 people on the floor to open things up.

[XUGRAD80]

Well of course my comments were taken out of context......

You asked a question, you got it answered. if you don't like the answers, perhaps you shouldn't ask the question, or perhaps you should have explained yourself more fully when asking it.


Also...if you feel Steele should have handled it differently, how do you think he should have handled it? Think about the long-term message he was sending to not just Tandy, but to others on the team. IMO, a coach has to send the message early in the season of what he expects. He can't wait until mid-January. If that might have meant a loss to Bradley, so be it. It's better to lose to Bradley in the 2nd game of the year, because you're sending a message, than it is to lose several games later in the year, because the players never got the message.

[XUGRAD80]

I'm sure it's a lot harder to bench upperclassmen who are major contributors in your second year as a coach. It might have less to do with them being holdovers, and more to do with him not wanting to alienate the locker room.

Q was a tough one - I thought he generally hustled and worked on defense. His shot selection wasn't atrocious. He just couldn't make a shot.

Naji was our go-to player, and he could make some crazy things happen, but his decision making was pretty suspect at times.

I think that the biggest problems under Steele have been two things: Piss poor perimeter shooting, and highly suspect PG play and ball handling. Hell, we were so bad at the point last year that we had Naji initiating the offense pretty regularly. If you want to compete at the level Xavier wants to compete at you have to have a PG every year. You also need some level of perimeter shooting in most instances, and you need it from at least 2-3 people on the floor to open things up.

I'll also point out that in article after article Steele compliments Naji as their best DEFENSIVE player last year. In addition, when he took Naji out, who was the backup? Without him, they really didn't have anyone that was a real consistent offensive threat from anywhere outside of 3 foot from the basket. it's early, but it would appear that this year's team has more options along that line.

[bleedXblue]

You asked a question, you got it answered. if you don't like the answers, perhaps you shouldn't ask the question, or perhaps you should have explained yourself more fully when asking it.


Also...if you feel Steele should have handled it differently, how do you think he should have handled it? Think about the long-term message he was sending to not just Tandy, but to others on the team. IMO, a coach has to send the message early in the season of what he expects. He can't wait until mid-January. If that might have meant a loss to Bradley, so be it. It's better to lose to Bradley in the 2nd game of the year, because you're sending a message, than it is to lose several games later in the year, because the players never got the message.

Aren't you a ray on sunshine. That comment/question was made in reply to a previous post. Yes, you can speculate away, just like I did. It's why were all here. I think Steel could have handled it differently. I've explained myself pretty clearly. We just disagree, which is fine by me.

[Blue Blooded-05]

P.S. I just read in the Enquirer that Steele said that after Freemantle got in foul trouble, they had to scrap the offense and go with a four guard lineup they had never run before.

So the head coach of a team with a thin front court hadn’t prepared for a game scenario where his best front court player got in foul trouble?

That makes me feel so much better.

[Xville]

So the head coach of a team with a thin front court hadn’t prepared for a game scenario where his best front court player got in foul trouble?

That makes me feel so much better.

Yeah that seemed odd to me as well. I think we can all agree the depth of the frontcourt for this year is really low, so why would this scenario not have been practiced? Nova has a ton of success with the four out, 1 in and x has in the recent past as well.

[xuwillie]

Do you think Steele would be better off finding a veteran assistant coach that could help on the offensive side? Think we can agree he can recruit pretty well and has a pretty good defensive plan....

[D-West & PO-Z]

Holy crap, three games in, all wins btw, and Steele sucks ? How about we at least wait until Wilcher, Jones and maybe Kunkle �� play a few games ? People bitching about Tandy's defense ? Heck, Bluiett couldn't guard a lamp post for most of his career. 3 games in 3 days with 8 players , maybe wait until we play the next 3 games. If next week we're 4-2, then have at it. But we probably should wait until we're closer to full strength with 4 or 5 games to spaz out. I'm impressed we didn't fold in games 2 and 3 , and found a way to win.

A little off topic but speaking of Kunkle, what is his reason for requesting a waiver? I knwo it seems like everyone (except Stanley) is getting them approved but seeing a guy on our own team with a fairly legit request didnt get it I cant see Kunkle getting his. But again I am not even sure of the reason he is using. Is anyone else?

[XUGRAD80]

Aren't you a ray on sunshine. That comment/question was made in reply to a previous post. Yes, you can speculate away, just like I did. It's why were all here. I think Steel could have handled it differently. I've explained myself pretty clearly. We just disagree, which is fine by me.

How could he have handled it differently?

[D-West & PO-Z]

So the head coach of a team with a thin front court hadn’t prepared for a game scenario where his best front court player got in foul trouble?

That makes me feel so much better.

Yeah I am on the side of Steele looks to be getting his guys and making progress with this team but I found this one odd as well. How in the world have we not practiced a 4 guard lineup? Maybe just not those specific 4 at the same time considering we thought we would have Jones and Wilcher available? I find it hard to believe we havent practiced small ball. I actually thought Steele said before the year he was practicing this?

[Xville]

Yeah I am on the side of Steele looks to be getting his guys and making progress with this team but I found this one odd as well. How in the world have we not practiced a 4 guard lineup? Maybe just not those specific 4 at the same time considering we thought we would have Jones and Wilcher available? I find it hard to believe we havent practiced small ball. I actually thought Steele said before the year he was practicing this?

Maybe that's what it was that particular lineup didnt practice it...I didnt see the exact quote.

[Xavier]

Also it was only about a week (not even?) before the season when Ben got denied. I am pretty sure that came as a huge surprise to everyone so they probably didn't anticipate being this thin. Not much time to practice the 4 guard line up- especially that group of 4.

[xudash]

So the head coach of a team with a thin front court hadn’t prepared for a game scenario where his best front court player got in foul trouble?

That makes me feel so much better.

I think you raise a fair question.

If you ended up having the opportunity to visit with Travis one on one, I wonder what his response would be.

My first reaction was to find your question fair, but I also considered that this team is comprised of a number of new and young parts and that practice time has been impacted by COVID. Can you practice everything you want to practice at this point? The more you go horizontal (with multiple schemes) the less you can go vertical (repetition of primary schemes).

Here again is an example of second guessing Steele after the fact. I'm not sure Steele imagined a scenario where Freemantle was going to end up in foul trouble during the first 3 games. As I understand it, the refs in the Toledo game proved to be douchebags to an extent. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

At the end of the day, he DID go four guard, spread them out, and let them have at it, and they ended up winning the game with that formula. He had faith in the players he recruited - plus Paul - to make this strategy response work.

And the point about not getting Stanley cleared is valid here as well.

[94GRAD]

So the head coach of a team with a thin front court hadn’t prepared for a game scenario where his best front court player got in foul trouble?

That makes me feel so much better.


Yeah that seemed odd to me as well. I think we can all agree the depth of the frontcourt for this year is really low, so why would this scenario not have been practiced? Nova has a ton of success with the four out, 1 in and x has in the recent past as well.


Yeah I am on the side of Steele looks to be getting his guys and making progress with this team but I found this one odd as well. How in the world have we not practiced a 4 guard lineup? Maybe just not those specific 4 at the same time considering we thought we would have Jones and Wilcher available? I find it hard to believe we havent practiced small ball. I actually thought Steele said before the year he was practicing this?

My guess that it has been practiced a lot. The problem was Jones and Wilcher were the ones that were in that rotation. Tough to practice a scenario where you're missing your best player to fouls and 2 of your first 3 off the bench due to the 'Rona.

[xudash]

My guess that it has been practiced a lot. The problem was Jones and Wilcher were the ones that were in that rotation. Tough to practice a scenario where you're missing your best player to fouls and 2 of your first 3 off the bench due to the 'Rona.

Public reps.

Great point about missing Jones and Wilcher in this scenario.

[xuwin]

My guess that it has been practiced a lot. The problem was Jones and Wilcher were the ones that were in that rotation. Tough to practice a scenario where you're missing your best player to fouls and 2 of your first 3 off the bench due to the 'Rona.

He said that they had never practiced with Scruggs at the 4 position.

[94GRAD]

He said that they had never practiced with Scruggs at the 4 position.


Scruggs knows how to run every play at the 1-3, X has more than enough players that know the 4 to have Scruggs learn a fourth position in case they have a player in foul trouble, 2 out from Covid, one not eligible(Stanley), a newby who only knows the 5(Griffin), and a redshirt freshman that only knows the 5(Miles).

Being a betting man, I'm positive they are practicing those rotations now knowing they actually might have to play them.

[bleedXblue]

How could he have handled it differently?

He sat almost the entire second half if I recall. I think he went in for one rotation early and that was it. I think he could have had a very direct conversation with him and made his point very clear. Put him back in when we really needed some scoring in the 2nd half. If he didn't respond then immediately pull him. You can dissect this a bunch of different ways.........but my opinion is you don't bench your best pure shooter and scorer in a game when you really, really need him that early in the season.

[XUGRAD80]

He sat almost the entire second half if I recall. I think he went in for one rotation early and that was it. I think he could have had a very direct conversation with him and made his point very clear. Put him back in when we really needed some scoring in the 2nd half. If he didn't respond then immediately pull him. You can dissect this a bunch of different ways.........but my opinion is you don't bench your best pure shooter and scorer in a game when you really, really need him that early in the season.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. But....

Actually he went in 1/3rd. the way through the 2nd half, scored a bucket at the 13:45 mark, then gave up some baskets and rebounds to Bradley players. Was pulled and never went back in. Remember X did end winning the game, so taking him out after that did not result in a loss. However, it could also be pointed out that he led the team in scoring in the 3rd game and I didn’t hear Steele complaining about his defense or effort after the Toledo game. The benching may well turn out in the long run to be the best thing that could have possibly happened at that time.