To Survive And Thrive

[A Fan]

You have to have sympathy for the College Administrators trying to figure out when and how to open their campuses and the details of the fall and winter sports programs. Because some epidemiologists are predicting a spike in covid 19 cases in the late fall, whatever one thinks today can change tomorrow. Notre Dame’s academic reopening plan seems to built on the assumption of a fall spike in cases and therefore is starting the semester on August 12 and concluding it by Thanksgiving trying to keep the students in place. They are eliminating a fall semester break and a Thanksgiving break since the students could bring the virus back to the campus. Theoretically , when they return to classes in January, any fall virus spike will have been mitigated , and they can do extensive testing upon return. When you look at their protocols for masking and social distancing packing the football stadium in October seems inconsistent if not unlikely.

“ In its announcement on Monday, Notre Dame also said that “contact tracing, quarantine and isolation protocols, social distancing and mask requirements, and enhanced cleaning of all campus spaces” will all be a part of university’s plan to reopen. The university has also said it’s set aside facilities where students who have tested positive for coronavirus can isolate.”

I have no idea what Xaviers plan is to reopen the campus, nor what the Big East Commissioners will conclude about the Basketball season. For all college basketball programs trying to get fans to renew seat licenses and buy basketball tickets, they will have to rely on the loyalty and good faith of the fans since no one can predict if games will be played, where and when. To encourage Xavier fans to renew tickets Xavier states:

“ Xavier Athletics announced that refund or credit opportunities will be available for Xavier men's basketball 2020-21 season tickets, should restrictions be put into place to limit attendance.
"We recognize that these are unprecedented times across the country, and large gatherings like sporting events and concerts have been temporarily halted. While we prepare for the upcoming Xavier men's basketball season this fall, there is still much uncertainty around such events. Should restrictions still exist that would result in anything from fewer games to a cancelled season, rest assured that Xavier will have credit and refund options available for season ticket holders. More information will be coming in the future as things become more clear. We look forward to seeing you in Cintas Center again soon. “

I am sure folks will say this statement is overly vague since it does not state seat licenses are refundable , etc. and will result in confusion and disappointment . If it turns out any games at the Cintas Center have to be socially distanced ( every other seat) and they split the attendees into different games, those missing Villanova and Creighton, for example , will cry foul. There are many other scenarios that could leave ticket holders jaded. I think the bottom line is that we renew our tickets because we want the program to survive and thrive and whatever the monetary outcome it will be ok. I guess that is what it means to be a FAN .

[Muskie]

I renewed my tickets as usual and won't worry about a refund if there's an option to apply it to the next season. I also understand why people would not do so depending on their personal and family situations. We are all Xavier fans.

[SC in DC]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic Pete here, but I've read several articles about how this virus is changing education and how many schools will not come out on the other end, because of declining enrollment, increased costs, etc. With Xavier having a relatively small endowment, what does the future of Xavier University look like?

[xukeith]

I'd be interested in seeing XU's enrollment this fall.
I can only imagine if a parent decided to have child go to a local school until the media stops with the mask and virus threats.

[xukeith]

Oh yes the $78,000 cost is high too.

[Xville]

Or maybe this will fix the ridiculous cost of going to college..feeling sympathy for college administrators? That's hysterical.

[xavierj]

A lot of colleges were struggling before this crap started so it’s going to get ugly. I have seen several colleges drop sports and Urbana near Columbus closed altogether recently. I would imagine over the next few years we will see a lot of universities close down. More people will go the online route and people just don’t want to keep forking out the big dollars. State university systems will do a lot of consolidating. Should be interesting. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Akron and Kent State and Toledo and Bowling Green merge at some point.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Or maybe this will fix the ridiculous cost of going to college..feeling sympathy for college administrators? That's hysterical.

Agree completely. I'm a member of a local golf club here in town. Every year we hire a half dozen (or so) local college kids for the summer. I'm forty five years removed from college and I always enjoy talking with these young people about their course of study, classes, career objectives, etc. I have been struck, over about the last five years, by the number of on-line courses they take---even a significant no. of graduate courses are handled this way. I'm not against on-line learning; I'm in my mid sixties and take courses on-line. But, sitting in front of a terminal doesn't replace the in-class experience---the interaction with professors, dialogue with other students. etc. Colleges are charging these students full bore but delivering Wal Mart quality education. But, yet, the schools want more money for their silly ass socially oriented programs--not for education. It just seems like such a fraud. I also taught Finance, as an adjunct instructor here in town for a number of years. I taught because I really enjoyed the interaction but preparing for a three hour, once per week class takes hours. I never was paid more than $750 for a semester. The universities not only f**k the students; they f**k some of the faculty too.

So, its hard for me to feel sorry for university administrators. They are the architects of this hoax.

All that said, I hope we have a season.

[xu82]

College eduction is broken and needs to evolve. My wife has a family friend who was the president of Ford in Europe. He was later the Dean of the business school in a major northeastern university. I wish I could find it, but he wrote a paper about how silly it is that a “four year” college experience takes even THREE years.

You are preparing to go into the “real world”? Well, then you don’t get 3 weeks off at Christmas, a Spring Break and the summer off. It’s a factory of education, you run it all year long. You don’t stop making cars in the summer, as that would be wasting the “factory” as it sits empty with no production. Being more productive may help bring the cost down.

[xudash]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic Pete here, but I've read several articles about how this virus is changing education and how many schools will not come out on the other end, because of declining enrollment, increased costs, etc. With Xavier having a relatively small endowment, what does the future of Xavier University look like?

Yield figures for enrollment for this year were met.

National recruiting profile now.

Thank you Big East and Xavier’s management.

[JTG]

Saw a long interview with a professor from NYU. He stated there will be a big change in education. The elite will all continue on fine, The Ivys, Stanford, ND, Northwestern. He called these colleges, finishing schools for the wealthy. He claimed schools like Harvard could double their enrollment if they chose @ $90k a year. And he thought there are some that might.The lower tier and community colleges will also thrive, because of affordability. It's the second tier schools that will suffer, because they have been charging near elite tuition for average education. And those with low endowments will really suffer. He mentioned the elite will be selecting from the second tier pool of applicants, and this year is a great time to be on an elite school's waiting list. Doesn't sound like good news for X. Hope they can weather the storm.

[paulxu]

Is this a thread about transferring, or conference re-alignment?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Is this a thread about transferring, or conference re-alignment?

COVID pretty sure....

[A Fan]

Is this a thread about transferring, or conference re-alignment?

The post was intended to comment on how the pandemic has spotlighted the cost and value of a college education. Once colleges converted last semester ( and some will continue ) to online learning, the whole value proposition of expensive 4 year colleges became under heightened scrutiny. Increased tuition and student fees have occurred in part due to the costs of intercollegiate athletics. Out of 2000 colleges with intercollegiate athletics less than 3 percent did not need an subsidy from other revenue. Not knowing Xaviers numbers my guess is that men’s basketball covers a lot of the athletic budget hopefully minimizing the need to subsidize the Athletic Department .
The reason athletics exist at schools that subsidize them is athletics are the best enrollment investment . I doubt Xaviers expanded campus would exist but for the Cintas Center and mens basketball . Supporting Xavier basketball is supporting the university. They are linked . One cannot exist without the other.

[whopper]

Agreed and as an alumni parent I donate when I can and have my kids but season tickets and help them out. I live in Conn and supposedly should like the New York teams but with the upheaval in NBA now with constant player movement and dissatisfaction you actually have more continuity and involvement rooting for a college team than a pro team. I hope everyone everywhere can stay positive; I can even imagine how exciting other big east schools are for their team and it is certainly part of the fabric of Omaha, or Indianapolis or Providence. Ironically as a UConn graduate I have little interest in the team; used to like it when they had some in state players but now a national team with little local interest

[paulxu]

My sarcasm font is broken again.

[xudash]

The post was intended to comment on how the pandemic has spotlighted the cost and value of a college education. Once colleges converted last semester ( and some will continue ) to online learning, the whole value proposition of expensive 4 year colleges became under heightened scrutiny. Increased tuition and student fees have occurred in part due to the costs of intercollegiate athletics. Out of 2000 colleges with intercollegiate athletics less than 3 percent did not need an subsidy from other revenue. Not knowing Xaviers numbers my guess is that men’s basketball covers a lot of the athletic budget hopefully minimizing the need to subsidize the Athletic Department .
The reason athletics exist at schools that subsidize them is athletics are the best enrollment investment . I doubt Xaviers expanded campus would exist but for the Cintas Center and mens basketball . Supporting Xavier basketball is supporting the university. They are linked . One cannot exist without the other.

Spot on.

I would have been very worried had this happened to Xavier in the mid-70’s, but not now. Xavier has never been healthier than it is now and it continues to expand.

And online learning is here to stay, but it is no panacea. It cannot replace the classroom experience and it , by definition, is incapable of allowing students to build relationships and life long friendships.

The Big East has been a godsend to Xavier. We truly recruit on a national level now, certainly as compared to where we were 10 years ago. Demographic realities are tough and getting tougher for a while, but X is well positioned to move forward.

[Xavier]

College eduction is broken and needs to evolve. My wife has a family friend who was the president of Ford in Europe. He was later the Dean of the business school in a major northeastern university. I wish I could find it, but he wrote a paper about how silly it is that a “four year” college experience takes even THREE years.

You are preparing to go into the “real world”? Well, then you don’t get 3 weeks off at Christmas, a Spring Break and the summer off. It’s a factory of education, you run it all year long. You don’t stop making cars in the summer, as that would be wasting the “factory” as it sits empty with no production. Being more productive may help bring the cost down.

For students who don't do much during those breaks- I agree, it does no good. Ideally though students are using those summers "off" as internships etc. that help gain experiences they bring back to school- it should help shape them more if used correctly.

[xu82]

For students who don't do much during those breaks- I agree, it does no good. Ideally though students are using those summers "off" as internships etc. that help gain experiences they bring back to school- it should help shape them more if used correctly.

Internships are absolutely great, but there is just too much wasted time in a “traditional” 4 year college experience. Most kids are getting a summer job waiting tables or painting houses to have some spending/beer money for next year. My son had an internship, but not until after his junior year. They want nothing to do with you until you reach that point, at least in his field. Internships could even be worked in during a semester if people are creative and treat it like a part time job.

It’s also not just summers. It’s spring break, a few weeks at Christmas, etc. Again, treat it like a factory and make it productive. You don’t shut down the Ford or Toyota factories the way you do universities. The cost of education is out of control and I hope they find ways to be more efficient and cost effective. Too many people are either being priced out of an education or entering their adult lives with a mountain of student debt. My son is working on an MBA now and I was shocked by the price tag.

[Olsingledigit]

When I went to X (1963-1967) we had a number of students from the East Coast. They were mostly students from families who wanted a Jesuit education for their kids but could not afford the east Coast Jebbie schools Like Georgetown.

[A Fan]

Internships are absolutely great, but there is just too much wasted time in a “traditional” 4 year college experience. Most kids are getting a summer job waiting tables or painting houses to have some spending/beer money for next year. My son had an internship, but not until after his junior year. They want nothing to do with you until you reach that point, at least in his field. Internships could even be worked in during a semester if people are creative and treat it like a part time job.

It’s also not just summers. It’s spring break, a few weeks at Christmas, etc. Again, treat it like a factory and make it productive. You don’t shut down the Ford or Toyota factories the way you do universities. The cost of education is out of control and I hope they find ways to be more efficient and cost effective. Too many people are either being priced out of an education or entering their adult lives with a mountain of student debt. My son is working on an MBA now and I was shocked by the price tag.

What is called “Co- Operative Education” is one of the best educational models. Students alternate semesters between classes and work. They get a degree and build a resume. Since mentioning the name of one university on this board in other than pejorative terms is bad form, I will just post this article.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/internship-programs

[GoMuskies]

I considered GMI (now Kettering University) when I was looking at colleges. Pretty cool model of cooperative education, I thought.

[paulxu]

When I went to X (1963-1967) we had a number of students from the East Coast. They were mostly students from families who wanted a Jesuit education for their kids but could not afford the east Coast Jebbie schools Like Georgetown.

And, there were 2 of us from Tennessee :)

(also I had 2 brothers who went to Georgetown. I was really tired of following them, so X was a great place to go.)

[xu82]

What is called “Co- Operative Education” is one of the best educational models. Students alternate semesters between classes and work. They get a degree and build a resume. Since mentioning the name of one university on this board in other than pejorative terms is bad form, I will just post this article.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/internship-programs

My son graduated with degrees in accounting and finance plus a masters in accounting. (Three degrees in 5 years.) He had passed the CPA exam and did have a brief internship before his senior year. When he started his first real job, they gathered up all the new guys and said “Don’t worry, we are fully aware that you don’t know squat.” It was true.

Yes, a model that included a little actual experience has advantages.

[A Fan]

And, there were 2 of us from Tennessee :)

(also I had 2 brothers who went to Georgetown. I was really tired of following them, so X was a great place to go.)

Tennessee ? Catholicism? 1963? Jesuits? Now there is a backstory that deserves its own thread on some site . Because it has to be a one off.

[A Fan]

My son graduated with degrees in accounting and finance plus a masters in accounting. (Three degrees in 5 years.) He had passed the CPA exam and did have a brief internship before his senior year. When he started his first real job, they gathered up all the new guys and said “Don’t worry, we are fully aware that you don’t know squat.” It was true.

Yes, a model that included a little actual experience has advantages.

You have to be very proud. I will assume your Xavier education gave you the wisdom to inspire your son to be so grounded, focused and successful.
Congratulations to both of you!

[paulxu]

Tennessee ? Catholicism? 1963? Jesuits? Now there is a backstory that deserves its own thread on some site . Because it has to be a one off.

I guess it's unusual. Dad went to work for TVA in the 30's; mom was from Philly where her dad worked at St Joe's Prep.
So, she/they were all about Jesuit education. Weren't many Catholics in Tennessee then, or in South Carolina now. 3-4%.