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View Full Version : Career Wrap: Quentin Goodin



MHettel
03-31-2020, 06:35 PM
Last year, I started logging the final career stats of 80 Xavier players going back to the 1990-91 Season. I don't have their breakdown by year, rather their final stats only.

The criteria to make this list is that they must have played 1000 career minutes, or if they were a transfer and didn't play 1000 minutes then it was a judgement call based on their importance to the team in the years they played. Or if they are an active player with a meaningful role I added them as well (Free, Tandy, Carter, Scruggs).

I have the minutes played for 59 Players. Some older years the info just wasn't available. Some stats will be presented on a "per minute" basis, so the population is 59.

I broke our all players into one of 3 groups: Guard (28), Swing (20), Big (32).

I labeled some players as "shooter" if they took 100 or more career 3's, or more than 30% of their shots were from deep. There are 48 Shooters.

The populations change for the metrics based on how many criteria went into that analysis (rebounding per minute for big men has a population of 25 as an example).

So, lets look at where Quentin Goodin finished his career.

SCORING: My unfortunate impression of Quentin as a scorer was that he was a poor shooter that took too many shots and didn't get to the line often enough. From a statistical point of view, my observations were at least partially validated, as Q finished 76th of 80 in shooting %, 43rd of 48 in 3pt shooting percentage, 70th of 80 in 2pt FG %, and 42nd of 59 in Free Throw attempts per minute. His FT shooting % was 55th of 80. BUT, he didn't shoot too often as he was 41st of 59 in FGA per minute. His frequency of taking 3's as a % of his total shots came in at 33 of 48. I suppose my conclusion here is that he didn't shoot too much.....he was just pretty bad at it when he did. Keep in mind that he played the 7th most amount of minutes (out of 59) in his career, so we had to suffer through this deficit which became glaring when guys that were BUCKETS (Blueitt, Kanter, Macura) were no longer around. Overall, Points per Minute was 50 of 59.

PLAYING PG The primary job of the PG is to run the offense....and close out games (see Holloway, Tu) That can be measured using stats to some degree, but the success / failure in this area goes beyond the numbers. I considered Q to be a capable / average PG that needed shooters around him and was a little too prone to Turnovers. The stats show that his Assists Per Minute place him 5th of 59, and his assist to TO ratio was 4th of 60. BUT.... his turnovers per minute was pretty high, ranking him 48th of 59 in that category. Considering he played with Marshall (57th of 58) and Scruggs (52 or 58), I'm left thinking that the sheer number of turnovers by the TEAM had an adverse impact on my impression of Q....since you know, he was running the offense. Considering his limited ability to get to the line, and his poor FT%, and I'm hanging a lot of the recent disappointment on Q.

SECONDARY STATS FOR A PG Raking high in some of these areas would be considered a plus. These aren't essential things to be great at. But, being inept at them could be problematic. Witness these per minute rankings in various categories: Offensive Rebounding per Minute 52 of 55, Defensive Rebounds per Minute 43 of 55, Total Rebounds per Minute 50 of 59, Steals per Minute 19 of 59, Blocks per Minute 46 of 59, fouls per minute 16 of 58. Really, he was kind of invisible in most of these areas. He didn't even commit a lot of fouls...which I kind of would rather see of my PG as long as it's not a "foul trouble" situation.

Overall, I guess choosing Q for my first analysis might have been a mistake. I'm sure my tone is kind of somber as I reflect on the reality that Q was really pretty lackluster and worse, we had to play him significant minutes.

xudash
03-31-2020, 08:18 PM
I hate to offer this as my input, but his decision making and lazy execution were virtually unforgivable.

bleedXblue
03-31-2020, 08:29 PM
Your best PG are leaders and tone setters. I really thought he would emerge as that guy and it never happened. I'm more disappointed in that than anything else.

drudy23
03-31-2020, 08:44 PM
It seemed Q had a bunch going on in his personal life over the course of his career at X. It seemed to impact his performance, which can be understandable.

I don't so much blame Q for that as much as I do the coach for giving him the leeway he did when it became obvious he wasn't the same player.

His loyalty to Q honestly may have been to Q's detriment.

xudash
03-31-2020, 09:20 PM
It seemed Q had a bunch going on in his personal life over the course of his career at X. It seemed to impact his performance, which can be understandable.

I don't so much blame Q for that as much as I do the coach for giving him the leeway he did when it became obvious he wasn't the same player.

His loyalty to Q honestly may have been to Q's detriment.

I am not sure that is fair. So, you have an employee who you know to be gifted, but recent performance has been lacking. Yet he continues to reinforce with you his ability to turn around and get back on track.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe Travis waited too long. But then again, it’s hard to know what constitutes “too long” until after the fact. And all of that is complicated with the loss of Paul late in the year.

xu82
03-31-2020, 09:48 PM
I am not sure that is fair. So, you have an employee who you know to be gifted, but recent performance has been lacking. Yet he continues to reinforce with you his ability to turn around and get back on track.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe Travis waited too long. But then again, it’s hard to know what constitutes “too long” until after the fact. And all of that is complicated with the loss of Paul late in the year.

If you are “managing” people of that age, you’d hope it’s more like at a Burger King where you have far less invested and committed to your average burger flipper.

It is indeed strange how he seemed to slide backwards, but I wish him all the best. We’ll never know the whole deal.

Muskie
03-31-2020, 10:16 PM
With all the disappointment surrounding Qs last two seasons he still finished top 4 in assists (maybe Top 3) all time. He wasn’t a great or even good PG for most of the season. But I can’t totally discount his four year effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

xu82
03-31-2020, 10:25 PM
With all the disappointment surrounding Qs last two seasons he still finished top 4 in assists (maybe Top 3) all time. He wasn’t a great or even good PG for most of the season. But I can’t totally discount his four year effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

AMEN! He was an important piece to some great Xavier times.

Olsingledigit
03-31-2020, 10:25 PM
What I will remember most about Q is that he was loyal and devoted and always gave his all. I think he is genuine. Perhaps the on court expectations weren’t met, but I applaud his effort.

xudash
03-31-2020, 10:59 PM
If you are “managing” people of that age, you’d hope it’s more like at a Burger King where you have far less invested and committed to your average burger flipper.

It is indeed strange how he seemed to slide backwards, but I wish him all the best. We’ll never know the whole deal.

I’m not sure I follow. People who flip burgers at a Burger King don’t have 10,000 people watching them, a $500 million media agreement behind them, and the pressure that comes with funding an athletic department.

xu82
03-31-2020, 11:10 PM
I’m not sure I follow. People who flip burgers at a Burger King don’t have 10,000 people watching them, a $500 million media agreement behind them, and the pressure that comes with funding an athletic department.

Sorry, maybe poorly worded. Young people have more issues than more established people. You “invest” relatively little in the BK employee, they are easy to replace. The PG for a major college basketball program is much more difficult to replace.

They might both be 20 year old “kids”, but it’s FAR easier to find that next burger flipper.

xudash
03-31-2020, 11:32 PM
Sorry, maybe poorly worded. Young people have more issues than more established people. You “invest” relatively little in the BK employee, they are easy to replace. The PG for a major college basketball program is much more difficult to replace.

They might both be 20 year old “kids”, but it’s FAR easier to find that next burger flipper.

Same page.

sirthought
04-01-2020, 12:42 AM
Assist total or not, Goodin was a disappointment overall. I don't know whether to blame his IQ/talent, his back injury, or a lack of proper coaching guidance. There were definite signs of good things to come when he took over, although we knew he probably wasn't quite ready for the role he was thrown in. But our offense, despite so many threads with arguments otherwise, hasn't operated like other programs. It's much more open to player decisions, and we've felt the impact of not having a confident PG that can produce, whether through getting to the line or setting up a score. I've always felt the ability was in him, so I'm more inclined to think it was injury or coaching. But it got bad enough that he basically did either nothing on the floor or made a bad pass. At one point he was turning it over 1 out of every 4 possessions.

smileyy
04-01-2020, 12:53 AM
Q benefitted from an open lane and he didn't have that the past two years, and couldn't seem to do much without it. Along with whatever other issues he had this year.

drudy23
04-01-2020, 09:05 AM
He also seemed to lose a step after freshman/sophomore year. The quickness and explosiveness seemed to have lessened.

His athleticism was off the charts his first couple years. Some of the explosions at the rim were impressive. I remember thinking this kid was going to be very special after watching some of his in-game highlights.

Did that go away, or was he never in the position to make those plays again? Just seemed like a different player the back half of his career.

whopper
04-01-2020, 09:09 AM
agree and one thing I thought is that he did not have respect of refs for whatever reason(maybe performance). He seemed to Geta lot more foul calls driving and a lot less offensive foul calls. It almost became a situation where wishful thinking was "I'm bound to hit the next shot" and it mushroomed. Because of offensive fouls he was not able to punish smaller guards and get to line which would have allowed him to draw defenders. I do think he should have doubled down on defending and rebounding (for a guard) and see if the offense would come to him. Good luck to Q and thanks for many good memories
Q benefitted from an open lane and he didn't have that the past two years, and couldn't seem to do much without it. Along with whatever other issues he had this year.

whopper
04-01-2020, 09:10 AM
He also seemed to lose a step after freshman/sophomore year. The quickness and explosiveness seemed to have lessened.

His athleticism was off the charts his first couple years. Some of the explosions at the rim were impressive. I remember thinking this kid was going to be very special after watching some of his in-game highlights.

Did that go away, or was he never in the position to make those plays again? Just seemed like a different player the back half of his career.


his last shot attempt I believe was a spectacular but missed dunk in traffic against DePaul. Turns out it was meaningless anyway

Xavier
04-01-2020, 11:53 AM
Man, I feel for Q. I know every team has a scapegoat but I have never seen it pile on someone like this for two years. Somewhat tough that he got thrown into hard circumstances his Freshman year...he thrived but probably created unrealistic expectations. Especially following it up next season, the talent and shooting around him just made him look all the more promising. I will be the first to admit he had an underwhelming last two seasons. But he got blasted on twitter and this message board (no question players read it) for two straight years. Every missed 3- you could hear it in the crowd.

Yes, he struggled. Its just a shame for him that his last two years will be his legacy. He was a starter on a team that got as far as Xavier ever has and followed it up by starting on the best regular season team in Xavier history landing the only 1 seed X has received. People (myself included) will have a tough time remembering those and just point to the rough jr/sr years.

IM4X
04-01-2020, 01:15 PM
I will always remember Q as stepping up when Edmund went down to help his team do some very special things in the tournament. No one can take that away from him. Q was at his best when surround by a plethora of high IQ playmakers who could shoot well from outside. That meant the defenses had to stretch the floor to guard teammates like Tre and JP and Gates and even Kanter. It made it easier for Q to facilitate and drive (because he had more room in the paint to score).

I feel like the past two seasons the roster, having less shooters, made things more difficult for a PG who is not known as a very good 3 point shooter. He was forced to try and play a different game that didn’t best suit his skills. The entire team at times (besides Jones) was asked to do things that were not their strengths. We didn’t go ten deep with high major level talent like a few years back. Still, as a senior, I was hoping for a little more leadership and tenacity and better decision making.

Q is a good kid with a great smile and a big heart. I wish the season would have gone a little better, but much more importantly, I wish him and his family the best in his life ahead.

xudash
04-01-2020, 01:39 PM
I will always remember Q as stepping up when Edmund went down to help his team do some very special things in the tournament. No one can take that away from him. Q was at his best when surround by a plethora of high IQ playmakers who could shoot well from outside. That meant the defenses had to stretch the floor to guard teammates like Tre and JP and Gates and even Kanter. It made it easier for Q to facilitate and drive (because he had more room in the paint to score).

I feel like the past two seasons the roster, having less shooters, made things more difficult for a PG who is not known as a very good 3 point shooter. He was forced to try and play a different game that didn’t best suit his skills. The entire team at times (besides Jones) was asked to do things that were not their strengths. We didn’t go ten deep with high major level talent like a few years back. Still, as a senior, I was hoping for a little more leadership and tenacity and better decision making.

Q is a good kid with a great smile and a big heart. I wish the season would have gone a little better, but much more importantly, I wish him and his family the best in his life ahead.

I second this. We are Xavier Nation. This is the way to "sunset" our thoughts on Q,

xu82
04-01-2020, 02:38 PM
I second this. We are Xavier Nation. This is the way to "sunset" our thoughts on Q,

So true! It was a disappointing year in many respects, but it’s not all on one player. Regardless, Q is and always be part of the Xavier family and I wish him all the best!