Don James transferring

[XUGRAD80]

Just saw this on Verbal Commits site

[Xville]

Seemed like a good kid and wish him all the best. Feel bad for him in a way because it took a whole bunch of crazy circumstances for him to even be offered a scholarship. Just not talented enough at this level, but hope he can find his footing at a lower level school and succeed.

[Masterofreality]

Just saw this on Verbal Commits site

Not unexpected. Played great against St. John’s but barely got a look after that.
And we have talked ad nauseum about questions why while *some other guy* , ostensibly with 10 billion practice points, played with little accountability.
Another talent thrown to the side. Depth will be a problem. There had better be some quality transfers brought in.

[whopper]

good kid, good player it seemed. Would have been a minor contributor (which at this level means a very good player) and I bet he will do well at his next stop. Never saw him sulk

[IM4X]

Bummer. I really liked him. He definitely should have been given much more playing time this season.

I get that he probably wants more playing time and he will get it if he goes to a team in a slightly less competitive conference.

[IM4X]

good kid, good player it seemed. Would have been a minor contributor (which at this level means a very good player) and I bet he will do well at his next stop. Never saw him sulk

He was indeed a class act. I’d like to see him stay, but since he isn’t, I sincerely hope he finds a place where he can be a significant contributor every game for the remained of his eligibility.

Best of Luck D. James!

[xu82]

I wish him all the best and hope he finds a great fit for himself.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Wishing him good luck wherever he goes.

[noteggs]

Not a surprise and hope he’ll succeed wherever he goes! Guess we can now officially say Mack’s last recruiting class was a complete bust (complete understatement). smh

[xu82]

Not a surprise and hope he’ll succeed wherever he goes! Guess we can now officially say Mack’s last recruiting class was a complete bust (complete understatement). smh

That’s what happens when you have one foot out the door.....and it’s following the other foot that had already left.

[drudy23]

We hardly knew ya Don. Best of luck. Kind of sucks he never really got a shot. I am one that also appreciated his effort and lack of complaining when he got in. When his number was called, he was ready.

Was he really that much worse than Carter? I don't know that we really even know the answer to that.

Does Ramsey last? Even if he sticks around, is he even a sniff in the rotation?

Who is our succession of big guys? We have absolutely no one like Tyrique in the program, nor do we have many, if any, stretch four type of players that can compete in a top 3 conference.

Freemantle is going to be playing 38 minutes a game, and we're relying on a guy that's never played a minute yet (Miles). I sure hope Miles turns into Jaxson Hayes.

Halfway serious, can we bring Torraye Braggs out of retirement? He's exactly what we need.

[UCGRAD4X]

Good luck Mr. James.

Can't blame you at all. If you can't get on the floor considering some of the knuckle-head play we watched this year, I would feel unwanted, at least, and disrespected on some level.

Hope you land in a place that better appreciates and can utilize and develop your skills.

[JEHARDI]

Not unexpected. Played great against St. John’s but barely got a look after that.
And we have talked ad nauseum about questions why while *some other guy* , ostensibly with 10 billion practice points, played with little accountability.
Another talent thrown to the side. Depth will be a problem. There had better be some quality transfers brought in.

You can’ t help yourself. Good kid but but not a great fit for the Big East. Likely see him at a 2nd tier D1 school and not sure he is more than a role player.

Harden, who you also mis-judged is back in the portal again. Your eye for D1 talent is more than questionable.

[xavierj]

We hardly knew ya Don. Best of luck. Kind of sucks he never really got a shot. I am one that also appreciated his effort and lack of complaining when he got in. When his number was called, he was ready.

Was he really that much worse than Carter? I don't know that we really even know the answer to that.

Does Ramsey last? Even if he sticks around, is he even a sniff in the rotation?

Who is our succession of big guys? We have absolutely no one like Tyrique in the program, nor do we have many, if any, stretch four type of players that can compete in a top 3 conference.

Freemantle is going to be playing 38 minutes a game, and we're relying on a guy that's never played a minute yet (Miles). I sure hope Miles turns into Jaxson Hayes.

Halfway serious, can we bring Torraye Braggs out of retirement? He's exactly what we need.

Yes if you watched Dontarius he was worse than Carter, both offensively and defensively. He was supposed to help with shooting and shot 23% from 3 in two years. He played 25 minutes in the St. Johns game and did OK, but still went 0-3 from three in that game. He he also only shot 40% from the line and didn't really show much when he did get in during his two years. Seems like a good kid and wish him well. Probably will end up at a lower D1 program where he can get minutes.

Right or wrong I think it is obvious Travis does not want a big man clogging the lane and the guys he is recruiting are shooters and slashers, with supposed high basketball IQ. I think he wants to play the Nova style where we can keep the lane open and get to the basket or find shooters for open three's. I think Free will continue to improve his shooting and will be a weapon inside and out. Miles is a project that should really help on the defensive end altering shots and is athletic as well who can also step a little away from the basket to shoot. Huge upside but time will tell. Ramsey has talent and athleticism and if healthy can be a player, just don't know if he will ever be healthy. As for someone like Tyrique, he was an awesome guy who put up good numbers but a lot of empty numbers at times as well and had to stay within 2 feet of the basket. I think Xavier passed on Marfo because he is kind of like Tyrique where he would pretty much clog the lane.

I would imagine we will see at least three transfers, maybe a couple of two year guys and a grad transfer to provide some inside help as well as being a threat somewhat from outside and also a couple of small forward/wing type of guys who can shoot and rebound. Should be interesting to see who and what they bring in. Young guys coming in will all be counted on to play right away.

[X-man]

We hardly knew ya Don. Best of luck. Kind of sucks he never really got a shot. I am one that also appreciated his effort and lack of complaining when he got in. When his number was called, he was ready.

Was he really that much worse than Carter? I don't know that we really even know the answer to that.

Does Ramsey last? Even if he sticks around, is he even a sniff in the rotation?

Who is our succession of big guys? We have absolutely no one like Tyrique in the program, nor do we have many, if any, stretch four type of players that can compete in a top 3 conference.

Freemantle is going to be playing 38 minutes a game, and we're relying on a guy that's never played a minute yet (Miles). I sure hope Miles turns into Jaxson Hayes.

Halfway serious, can we bring Torraye Braggs out of retirement? He's exactly what we need.

I hear that Ramsey would be playing were it not for some physical issues. The hope is that these issues aren't permanent.

[Final4]

Not unexpected. Played great against St. John’s but barely got a look after that.
And we have talked ad nauseum about questions why while *some other guy* , ostensibly with 10 billion practice points, played with little accountability.
Another talent thrown to the side. Depth will be a problem. There had better be some quality transfers brought in.

Jeez, give it a rest Adolph. We get it......you don't like Steele.

[bigdiggins]

Not unexpected. Played great against St. John’s but barely got a look after that.
And we have talked ad nauseum about questions why while *some other guy* , ostensibly with 10 billion practice points, played with little accountability.
Another talent thrown to the side. Depth will be a problem. There had better be some quality transfers brought in.

Ahh... the alternative reality where 1-4 FG and 4-7 FTs is "great".

[drudy23]

People kind of keep dogging Tyrique as a lane clogger, but without him, we might have been below .500.

He was no doubt MVP this year.

[XU 87]

Harden, who you also mis-judged is back in the portal again.

Maybe he'll come back to X. After all, he averaged 7.5 points per game and shot 34% from the field at Jacksonville State.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Maybe he'll come back to X. After all, he averaged 7.5 points per game and shot 34% from the field at Jacksonville State.

He'd fit right in lol

[XU 87]

To put Don James into perspective, Mack only really started to recruit him after Mack's first priority 10-15 recruits went elsewhere. At that point, Mack was looking for warm bodies. When James committed, he was ranked around 500 in the recruiting rankings. After his commitment to X, he moved up to around 225, which many of us thought was only because the recruiting "experts" thought, "He's going to X. So he must be better than 500."

He chose X over the likes of Campbell, South Alabama, and Austin Peay. He was primarily being recruited by small programs.

Now that said, I thought when he did get minutes, he hustled his ass off. He just didn't have the talent to play at this level. Good luck to him.

P.S. I just read an interesting article about James- Kansas gave him an offer. Yes, Kansas. Why? Because James played on the same AAU team with and was friends with Zion Williamson. I suspect that offer was withdrawn once Zion committed to Duke.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/8/8/16113258/zion-williamson-recruiting-kansas-jayhawks-offering-dontarius-james

[SM#24]

Harden, who you also mis-judged is back in the portal again.


Maybe he'll come back to X. After all, he averaged 7.5 points per game and shot 34% from the field at Jacksonville State.

I always liked and pulled for Harden even though it was apparent he wasn't going to be a quality BE-level player. Curious as to where Harden ends up and what's he's looking for. At Jax St, maybe he didn't get along with the coach. He was given a starting spot out of the shoot on a team that lost a lot from a good team the previous season. He avg. (Pt/Reb/Ast/TO) 7.3/2.6/1.6/1.3, while leading the team in minutes. He shot 34.4%/30.6%(3). Didn't really light it up and was a disappointment, at least when measured against this pre-season write-up:
"A big reason for excitement is Xavier transfer Elias Harden, a 6-5 junior guard whom (Coach Ray) Harper sees as a potential first-team All-OVC player. 'He's talented,' Harper says. 'He's probably been the hardest worker we had [in the] summer. He's kind of been a leader.' "
Don't know where he goes from here. Maybe he's looking for a Lloyd Dobler "dare to be great" situation.

[Masterofreality]

You can’ t help yourself.


Jeez, give it a rest Adolph. We get it......you don't like Steele.

You know what I don't like?
-Going 19-16 with a team that had talent- you know a National Champion Division 2 POY plus guys that played in an Elite 8- in a Down Year Big East.
-Going 19-13 with a team that had talent and couldn't even finish .500 in a league where other coaches picked them 3rd. Chiefly because *someone in power* couldn't figure out A) It might be a good time to go zone defense against a team that lost their best player and another guy is allowed to score 13 straight points? B) It might be a good idea to have somebody shadowing/harassing the other teams' best player for about 8 seconds rather than letting him dribble up unencumbered and move right to where his teammate was setting a screen in his favorite spot to shoot from?

Going 38-29 and *probably* missing the NCAA two straight years. With this talent. THAT'S pretty much what I hate.

[Masterofreality]

Ahh... the alternative reality where 1-4 FG and 4-7 FTs is "great".

And the fact that the guy who he finally replaced in that game was worse...and in many other games....but those Xavier Way points, ya know.

How bad did it have to get before the guy in the suit said enough? Welp, pretty bad because Don finally got a chance and played well. Then he barely even saw the floor again.

That reality.

[XU 87]

And the fact that the guy who he finally replaced in that game was worse...and in many other games....but those Xavier Way points, ya know.

How bad did it have to get before the guy in the suit said enough? Welp, pretty bad because Don finally got a chance and played well. Then he barely even saw the floor again.

That reality.

James played 27 minutes in the last three games of the season and scored a total of three points. He simply didn't have the talent to play consistently at this level on this team. Period. End of story. The fact that he had a career game of 6 points (1-4 from the field and 4-7 from the free line I might add) when playing 25 minutes against St. John doesn't change that fact.


There was a reason that his alternatives to Xavier were schools like Austin Peay and Campbell.

James also had a Kenpom offensive rating of 80. That's terrible. To give it some perspective- Q had a rating of 86, which is also bad. (Carter had a rating of 95, which ain't too good either, but a lot better than 80.)

[xavierj]

And the fact that the guy who he finally replaced in that game was worse...and in many other games....but those Xavier Way points, ya know.

How bad did it have to get before the guy in the suit said enough? Welp, pretty bad because Don finally got a chance and played well. Then he barely even saw the floor again.

That reality.

What constituted playing well? That he stayed on the floor had some rebounds and maybe didn't get totally torched on defense. I think some people were surprised he wasn't a total disaster and that skewed the perception. The reality is that Don is not a good enough player at this level. Let's see what the interest level is from other programs. If the coaches felt Don could help, they would have played him.

[AviatorX]

Comparisons between James and Carter are an absolute non-starter. Give me a break. This will bear out when James is at South Carolina Upstate (or similar) next year putting up pedestrian numbers, just like it did with Elias Harden. Although, I guess MOR is still going to bat for Harden so all bets are off..

Totally understand why James moved on. Wish him the best of course.

[paulxu]

Don't be dissing on the Upstate of South Carolina. Great place to live.

[XUGRAD80]

Don't be dissing on the Upstate of South Carolina. Great place to live.

I agree, it’s a beautiful area.

[Final4]

You know what I don't like?
-Going 19-16 with a team that had talent- you know a National Champion Division 2 POY plus guys that played in an Elite 8- in a Down Year Big East.
-Going 19-13 with a team that had talent and couldn't even finish .500 in a league where other coaches picked them 3rd. Chiefly because *someone in power* couldn't figure out A) It might be a good time to go zone defense against a team that lost their best player and another guy is allowed to score 13 straight points? B) It might be a good idea to have somebody shadowing/harassing the other teams' best player for about 8 seconds rather than letting him dribble up unencumbered and move right to where his teammate was setting a screen in his favorite spot to shoot from?

Going 38-29 and *probably* missing the NCAA two straight years. With this talent. THAT'S pretty much what I hate.

OMG, JEHARDI is right......you CAN'T help yourself. Another rant. Instead of continually playing the role of armchair quarterback how 'bout telling us in advance what's going to happen next year. Best player(s). Most effective newcomer. Position in the BE. Record. Post season. You seem to have all the answers. I would like to know if I should be looking forward to next season or not.

[Masterofreality]

OMG, JEHARDI is right......you CAN'T help yourself. Another rant. Instead of continually playing the role of armchair quarterback how 'bout telling us in advance what's going to happen next year. Best player(s). Most effective newcomer. Position in the BE. Record. Post season. You seem to have all the answers. I would like to know if I should be looking forward to next season or not.

And you can't help trying to jump my case. I suppose because you disagree with my opinion and you have to carry water for Steele while dumping on the players. You called me "adolph" whatever the hell that means. I was called out, I'm responding with my answer.
I was accused of hating Steele. No. I don't hate the man any more than I hate other people who are underachieving. He's done an underachieving job so far with talent. Kyle Castlin who was good at Columbia, then came here and was not so good, is good again and made a D-League roster. Why was that? He obviously has talent, but why wasn't it evidenced here? Why did it take so long for Hankins to play with Tyrique? Why was 2/3 of last year wasted? Why was our offense so damn predictable and hard to watch all year? I sure hate that.
You just keep passing over the obvious mistakes he has made-Marquette and Butler...mistakes that almost any other coach worth their salt would not have made, and there are many others less obvious as said above. He's getting paid handsomely to do a job well, and he's not doing it well. And it is severely costing the school I love. Yeah, that's what I hate. Oh, and these things I'm pointing out aren't Monday Morning quarterbacking. I've said them to my text partners during games and my seat mate at Cintas in real time. As to next year, if you can tell me who's coming and coming back, maybe we can analyze, but who knows?

Finally, as to Don James. We really don't know what he could have produced with regular playing time because he never got it. Carter kept getting all the minutes. It's a whole lot different when a player knows he has the confidence of his coach and he can play more free and easy without always looking over his shoulder. I don't think James ever got a fair shake just like I think that other players have not been used properly to maximize their potential. That's it.

[XU 87]

Kyle Castlin who was good at Columbia, then came here and was not so good, is good again and made a D-League roster. Why was that? He obviously has talent, but why wasn't it evidenced here?

Kyle Castlin averaged 10 ppg on a Columbia team that went 8-19 in his junior year before coming to X. By BE standards, he was average to below average, and it showed in his play.

But you have now said Steele misused Bishop, Castlin, James and Elias Harden, and that they all should have played more. Is there any bench player Steele hasn't misused or didn't play enough? Keonte Kennedy?

[UCGRAD4X]

And you can't help trying to jump my case. I suppose because you disagree with my opinion and you have to carry water for Steele while dumping on the players. You called me "adolph" whatever the hell that means. I was called out, I'm responding with my answer.
I was accused of hating Steele. No. I don't hate the man any more than I hate other people who are underachieving. He's done an underachieving job so far with talent. Kyle Castlin who was good at Columbia, then came here and was not so good, is good again and made a D-League roster. Why was that? He obviously has talent, but why wasn't it evidenced here? Why did it take so long for Hankins to play with Tyrique? Why was 2/3 of last year wasted? Why was our offense so damn predictable and hard to watch all year? I sure hate that.
You just keep passing over the obvious mistakes he has made-Marquette and Butler...mistakes that almost any other coach worth their salt would not have made, and there are many others less obvious as said above. He's getting paid handsomely to do a job well, and he's not doing it well. And it is severely costing the school I love. Yeah, that's what I hate. Oh, and these things I'm pointing out aren't Monday Morning quarterbacking. I've said them to my text partners during games and my seat mate at Cintas in real time. As to next year, if you can tell me who's coming and coming back, maybe we can analyze, but who knows?

Finally, as to Don James. We really don't know what he could have produced with regular playing time because he never got it. Carter kept getting all the minutes. It's a whole lot different when a player knows he has the confidence of his coach and he can play more free and easy without always looking over his shoulder. I don't think James ever got a fair shake just like I think that other players have not been used properly to maximize their potential. That's it.

I'm at a bit of a loss where the harsh criticism of MOR is coming from. MOR will tell you that he and I have not seen eye to eye on much of what he offers. I don't think many would disagree that Steele's performance has fallen short of the expectations we had when he was hired. Yes, much of that was just the overall optimistic exuberance we have for the team and the past success with promoting from within. We can disagree with how much Steele is responsible with the overall performance of the team, which also had much higher expectations for which they fell woefully short. There are few certainties (in a time where few if any certainties are available).

I appreciate that MOR backs up his arguments with information (of which you may or may not agree) and, better yet, with some statistics (of which you can also question the validity, efficacy and application - statistics and damn statistics being what they are). At least it is an area for discussion, or should be, with a level of disagreement, sometimes a very high degree. Feel free to do so. Back it up with arguments and data which we can also question, in the hopes that it furthers the discussion.

I also think some of the reasons certain players were utilized, or not, is highly speculative, not knowing what goes on behind the scenes. How a player may have succeeded in the future comes with even less certainty.

Feel free to speculate, disagree, even vehemently. It doesn't need to be personal.

[Masterofreality]

I'm at a bit of a loss where the harsh criticism of MOR is coming from. MOR will tell you that he and I have not seen eye to eye on much of what he offers. I don't think many would disagree that Steele's performance has fallen short of the expectations we had when he was hired. Yes, much of that was just the overall optimistic exuberance we have for the team and the past success with promoting from within. We can disagree with how much Steele is responsible with the overall performance of the team, which also had much higher expectations for which they fell woefully short. There are few certainties (in a time where few if any certainties are available).

I appreciate that MOR backs up his arguments with information (of which you may or may not agree) and, better yet, with some statistics (of which you can also question the validity, efficacy and application - statistics and damn statistics being what they are). At least it is an area for discussion, or should be, with a level of disagreement, sometimes a very high degree. Feel free to do so. Back it up with arguments and data which we can also question, in the hopes that it furthers the discussion.

I also think some of the reasons certain players were utilized, or not, is highly speculative, not knowing what goes on behind the scenes. How a player may have succeeded in the future comes with even less certainty.

Feel free to speculate, disagree, even vehemently. It doesn't need to be personal.

Since the Covid virus has obviously affected this board, Public reps Brother.

[Masterofreality]

Kyle Castlin averaged 10 ppg on a Columbia team that went 8-19 in his junior year before coming to X. By BE standards, he was average to below average, and it showed in his play.

But you have now said Steele misused Bishop, Castlin, James and Elias Harden, and that they all should have played more. Is there any bench player Steele hasn't misused or didn't play enough? Keonte Kennedy?

Kyle Castlin shot 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 for Columbia. His 3 point % dropped to 29.6% at X. Did he forget how to shoot from March to November?
He also went from averaging 10.5 ppg to just over 4 for X. Maybe there was better defense in the BE to account for the scoring average drop, but I don’t think a kid forgets how to shoot. Now he’s made a G League roster so obviously he hadn’t forgotten how to shoot.

All this year everyone was bitching that this X team couldn’t shoot either. Maybe Kyle Castlin was the “Canary in the Coal mine” letting us know that actually it was the scheme that was wrong and guys weren’t worked thru ball movement and screens to be open enough?

But, yeah. Just keep blaming the players for “Bad IQ”, taking bad shots and excusing the guy who is supposed to make them better and putting them in the best spots to succeed.

[XU 87]

And when exactly did I say Castlin 1) had a bad basketball IQ or 2) he took bad shots? (I didn't.)

What I did say was that he was an average player in the Ivy League playing for a bad team, which translates to him being a below average player in the BE. Are you really arguing that his Ivy League stats should have transferred verbatim against much higher competition? Maybe, just maybe, some open threes he made in the Ivy League weren't so open in the BE when playing against taller, faster and more athletic players.

There's a reason Castlin was in the Ivy League- he had less talent than players in major conferences. He didn't miraculously become more talented by transferring to Xavier.

Are you still standing by your argument that Steele should have played Harden more, even after he had the miserable year at Jacksonville State? Or did that coach also screw up with his handling of Harden, even though Harden led the team in minutes?

[xavierj]

Kyle Castlin shot 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 for Columbia. His 3 point % dropped to 29.6% at X. Did he forget how to shoot from March to November?
He also went from averaging 10.5 ppg to just over 4 for X. Maybe there was better defense in the BE to account for the scoring average drop, but I don’t think a kid forgets how to shoot. Now he’s made a G League roster so obviously he hadn’t forgotten how to shoot.

All this year everyone was bitching that this X team couldn’t shoot either. Maybe Kyle Castlin was the “Canary in the Coal mine” letting us know that actually it was the scheme that was wrong and guys weren’t worked thru ball movement and screens to be open enough?

But, yeah. Just keep blaming the players for “Bad IQ”, taking bad shots and excusing the guy who is supposed to make them better and putting them in the best spots to succeed.

He went from playing D2 quality teams to the Big East. That’s all you need to know as far as his numbers go. Guys playing bad competition will have better numbers, it’s just reality. Open looks against Brown became a guy in your face not letting you get clean looks. And how did he do in the G league this year, which is not great basketball by the way.

Just checked and in his brief G league stint he went 1-9 from 3.

[xufan2020]

Kyle Castlin shot 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 for Columbia. His 3 point % dropped to 29.6% at X. Did he forget how to shoot from March to November?
He also went from averaging 10.5 ppg to just over 4 for X. Maybe there was better defense in the BE to account for the scoring average drop, but I don’t think a kid forgets how to shoot. Now he’s made a G League roster so obviously he hadn’t forgotten how to shoot.

All this year everyone was bitching that this X team couldn’t shoot either. Maybe Kyle Castlin was the “Canary in the Coal mine” letting us know that actually it was the scheme that was wrong and guys weren’t worked thru ball movement and screens to be open enough?

But, yeah. Just keep blaming the players for “Bad IQ”, taking bad shots and excusing the guy who is supposed to make them better and putting them in the best spots to succeed.
Kyle Castlin is averaging 4.6ppg and shooting 11% from 3 in the nba gleague.. yeah Steele was really holding back a monster

[XU 87]

Kyle Castlin is averaging 4.6ppg and shooting 11% from 3 in the nba gleague.. yeah Steele was really holding back a monster

Clearly his G league coach 1) isn’t using him properly and 2) doesn’t know how to run an offense. There’s no other explanation.

[AviatorX]

Kyle Castlin averaged 10 ppg on a Columbia team that went 8-19 in his junior year before coming to X. By BE standards, he was average to below average, and it showed in his play.

But you have now said Steele misused Bishop, Castlin, James and Elias Harden, and that they all should have played more. Is there any bench player Steele hasn't misused or didn't play enough? Keonte Kennedy?

Bishop, Castlin, James, Harden and Kennedy. Throw in Ryan Welage and MOR could have that team at 10-8 in this year's Big East.

[UCGRAD4X]

Bishop, Castlin, James, Harden and Kennedy. Throw in Ryan Welage and MOR could have that team at 10-8 in this year's Big East.

Not under the present administration.

[AviatorX]

I mean come on...are we really going to do this with Kyle Castlin? How long before we have posters clamoring that Myles Hanson should be playing.

[JEHARDI]

Kyle Castlin shot 36% from 3 and over 55% from 2 for Columbia. His 3 point % dropped to 29.6% at X. Did he forget how to shoot from March to November?
He also went from averaging 10.5 ppg to just over 4 for X. Maybe there was better defense in the BE to account for the scoring average drop, but I don’t think a kid forgets how to shoot. Now he’s made a G League roster so obviously he hadn’t forgotten how to shoot.

All this year everyone was bitching that this X team couldn’t shoot either. Maybe Kyle Castlin was the “Canary in the Coal mine” letting us know that actually it was the scheme that was wrong and guys weren’t worked thru ball movement and screens to be open enough?

But, yeah. Just keep blaming the players for “Bad IQ”, taking bad shots and excusing the guy who is supposed to make them better and putting them in the best spots to succeed.

I think enough evidence has been shared regarding Harden and Castlin that proves you cannot evaluate high level Division 1 talent.
Not sure anyone would argue that Steele has not had a lot of growing pains the last 2 years but that was true for Matta, Miller and Mack as well. They survived and thrived and so will Steele.
The offense was tough to watch this year but without a PG they still generated a ton of good and open looks every game and unfortunately missed more bunnies and open 3’s than anyone thought possible. I highly doubt they continue to have the same issues when they have a balanced roster.
Tough to take anything you say serious when you continually disregard reality.

[Masterofreality]

Here’s reality.

19-16 and 19-13. Both years underachieving with the roster we had. An offense that is eye bleeding to watch, does not get to the foul line enough and does not set up players for success resulting in bad setups and bad outcomes. If you want to know the kind of offense I would have put in with this group it would have been The Ball Screen and option offense run by many teams and got Loyola-Chicago to the Final 4 a couple of years ago. For example- The Ramblers typically start their offense with a ball screen action to force the defense to provide help. What makes their offense special is that they attack the help to get open shots, doing so by making the extra pass and getting the ball in the paint. If a player does not have a good shot, he is ready and willing to give the ball up or create for teammate. They MOVE the freaking ball, they don’t have a guy pounding 20 dribbles on the court. Loyola has a big man Krutwig similar to Tyrique Jones. Strong around the hoop, but can’t shoot a lick outside of 5 feet. I think we have/had better shooters than Loyola, but don’t get to the same open spots. A big reason for that was because Tyrique Jones or Carter or even Free hardly ever passed out of the post. They apparently weren’t coached to but Krutwig is. How many times when Tyrique/Carter/Free were doubled did they know where to go with the ball? Not too many because A) They weren’t coached to, B) Our guys were in no position to receive the pass ready to shoot. The result was a continual parade of turnovers. All year. We should have started installing offense and used it IMO starting with Spain, not the wasted AAU ball we saw. Loyola really didn’t have a point guard either this year but their ball movement was still a thing of beauty.

My opinion of Steele is that he is not a good X & O and game coach right now. He is slow to adjust, misses matchup advantages, and is lousy in the player/roster management area. He sets a good defensive plan and can seemingly recruit.
Can he improve? Only time will tell, but he’ll be around next year.
You guys keep picking apart college players while leaving the coach untouched. You question players who are now getting paid & players who are just leaving who underperformed while at Xavier while forgiving the coach of everything. Whatever. You have your opinion, and you can childishly call me all the clever names you want just because I am not a fan of Steele and not afraid to say it. Ain’t bothering me. We’ll eventually see who was right. I sincerely hope we’re not 4 years in with no Dance.
That’s it.

[XU 87]

Per Kenpom, Loyola had an offense rating of about 103. X had an offense rating of 106.

[IM4X]

Here’s reality.

19-16 and 19-13. Both years underachieving with the roster we had. An offense that is eye bleeding to watch, does not get to the foul line enough and does not set up players for success resulting in bad setups and bad outcomes. If you want to know the kind of offense I would have put in with this group it would have been The Ball Screen and option offense run by many teams and got Loyola-Chicago to the Final 4 a couple of years ago. For example- The Ramblers typically start their offense with a ball screen action to force the defense to provide help. What makes their offense special is that they attack the help to get open shots, doing so by making the extra pass and getting the ball in the paint. If a player does not have a good shot, he is ready and willing to give the ball up or create for teammate. They MOVE the freaking ball, they don’t have a guy pounding 20 dribbles on the court. Loyola has a big man Krutwig similar to Tyrique Jones. Strong around the hoop, but can’t shoot a lick outside of 5 feet. I think we have/had better shooters than Loyola, but don’t get to the same open spots. A big reason for that was because Tyrique Jones or Carter or even Free hardly ever passed out of the post. They apparently weren’t coached to but Krutwig is. How many times when Tyrique/Carter/Free were doubled did they know where to go with the ball? Not too many because A) They weren’t coached to, B) Our guys were in no position to receive the pass ready to shoot. The result was a continual parade of turnovers. All year. We should have started installing offense and used it IMO starting with Spain, not the wasted AAU ball we saw. Loyola really didn’t have a point guard either this year but their ball movement was still a thing of beauty.

My opinion of Steele is that he is not a good X & O and game coach right now. He is slow to adjust, misses matchup advantages, and is lousy in the player/roster management area. He sets a good defensive plan and can seemingly recruit.
Can he improve? Only time will tell, but he’ll be around next year.

As you know, I have been frustrated with Steele this season too. I am completely with you on everything you mentioned above about the offense.

I do have to admit there were players who were just awful when we needed them to at least step up and be okay. I think Q gave up on driving in the lane because he simply couldn’t make a layup anymore. He and Moore became as cold as the attic wind from three. Even Carter was throwing up layups like he was 8 feet away. Naji and Paul went into “Reckless mode” several times a game. There was no true leader on the court who settled everyone down. That was Q’s role but he was having too many of his own issues to calm his teammates and establish any sort of tempo.

I also must admit I had some similar frustrations with the offense during some of Mack’s early years. Then he added more talent and better shooters. I forget who it was that said it (maybe Gillen) or what the exactly quote was but it was something like “It’s amazing how great shooting makes up for a multitude of other sins.” This quote seems to fit nicely with Mack and Steele. Both had their struggles, but when they had a plethora of great shooters on their roster, they were able to overcome other glaring weaknesses.

The team that included Tre, JP, Gates, Sumner, Kanter and O’Mara had far more talent than this season’s team and far better shooters and they also seemed to have higher basketball IQs. Steele certainly needs to get better, but he also needs more talented, smart players who listen and give a damn about working hard at improving the little things. Let’s see which of things do get better next year.

[Smails]

Per Kenpom, Loyola had an offense rating of about 103. X had an offense rating of 106.

LOL..."thing of beauty"

[AviatorX]

Per Kenpom, Loyola had an offense rating of about 103. X had an offense rating of 106.

Don't worry, Loyola made up for it with a defense slotted 52 spots behind X on KenPom. Coaching. Not to mention they had the 45th best 3P% in the country, but relative to total field goal attempts, hoisted the 307th most 3's. Porter Moser has cracked the offensive code. Must be why they lost 5 non-conference games against the #281 non-conference schedule (including a home loss to Coppin State).

[drudy23]

As you know, I have been frustrated with Steele this season too. I am completely with you on everything you mentioned above about the offense.

I do have to admit there were players who were just awful when we needed them to at least step up and be okay. I think Q gave up on driving in the lane because he simply couldn’t make a layup anymore. He and Moore became as cold as the attic wind from three. Even Carter was throwing up layups like he was 8 feet away. Naji and Paul went into “Reckless mode” several times a game. There was no true leader on the court who settled everyone down. That was Q’s role but he was having too many of his own issues to calm his teammates and establish any sort of tempo.

I also must admit I had some similar frustrations with the offense during some of Mack’s early years. Then he added more talent and better shooters. I forget who it was that said it (maybe Gillen) or what the exactly quote was but it was something like “It’s amazing how great shooting makes up for a multitude of other sins.” This quote seems to fit nicely with Mack and Steele. Both had their struggles, but when they had a plethora of great shooters on their roster, they were able to overcome other glaring weaknesses.

The team that included Tre, JP, Gates, Sumner, Kanter and O’Mara had far more talent than this season’s team and far better shooters and they also seemed to have higher basketball IQs. Steele certainly needs to get better, but he also needs more talented, smart players who listen and give a damn about working hard at improving the little things. Let’s see which of things do get better next year.

I agree with this, but also think that not many coaches, knowing their team is terrible from 3 (and we were terrible), would allow the type of offense he allowed with this team. Game after game, the team relied on the things they did the worst. It never really made sense to me.

[XUMIOH12]

I mean come on...are we really going to do this with Kyle Castlin? How long before we have posters clamoring that Myles Hanson should be playing.

we already have one!!! paging Xuperman. he was clamoring for myles hanson for the last year or so lol.

[XU 87]

we already have one!!! paging Xuperman. he was clamoring for myles hanson for the last year or so lol.

Hanson played at Columbia with Castlin. So he must be good. Can't believe he's not playing more.

[whopper]

look at Castlin Twitter Feed..he is playing well in G league and has a 2 minute video that makes you wonder if it is the same player.

[Muskie]

At some point I would have been ok with Hanson getting a few game minutes (towards the middle of the season) just to see what he could do in a game situation. Maybe he could have given Scruggs or Naji a rest. Maybe he doesn't have the "refined" offensive game of Naji, but I'd be willing to bet he could have held his own in spots. At the end of the season, it was too late to try that experiment as we fought for our NCAA tourney bid.

[Muskie]

Just imagine if in addition to James in the 2018 class, X also had gotten Siddiq Bey to commit....

[Masterofreality]

Per Kenpom, Loyola had an offense rating of about 103. X had an offense rating of 106.

They don't have as good a players as X, not surprising....but still better than us.

[Masterofreality]

LOL..."thing of beauty"

Not as good a players as Xavier, but still better. Loyola played a lot of youngsters- Kennedy a frosh was their PG. Wojik & Auguanne were underclassmen. They only had 2 seniors on their roster and both of them hardly played at all.
All this, and Loyola still almost won the regular season MoVal and still had a higher offensive rating than Xavier. Oh, and lest I remind you that that offensive system has been to a Final 4? Hmmmmmmmm. Yeah, LOL.

[AviatorX]

Not as good a players as Xavier, but still better. Loyola played a lot of youngsters- Kennedy a frosh was their PG. Wojik & Auguanne were underclassmen. They only had 2 seniors on their roster and both of them hardly played at all.
All this, and Loyola still almost won the regular season MoVal and still had a higher offensive rating than Xavier. Oh, and lest I remind you that that offensive system has been to a Final 4? Hmmmmmmmm. Yeah, LOL.

Nah, they were 57 spots lower on KenPom than X offensively. The numbers 87 posted were the efficiency numbers themselves. Loyola was a significantly worse team than Xavier this season, no matter how you want to spin it.

They did go to a Final Four. But so did Shaka Smart. If memory serves, you don't think he's a great coach, do you?

[XU 87]

They don't have as good a players as X, not surprising....but still better than us.

Stop blaming the players. It has nothing to do with them. With a relatively mediocre offensive rating of 103, it appears that Loyola doesn't run an offense that puts their players in the best position to score. That's the only explanation.

(The above is known as "taking a page out of your book".)

[Masterofreality]

Nah, they were 57 spots lower on KenPom than X offensively. The numbers 87 posted were the efficiency numbers themselves. Loyola was a significantly worse team than Xavier this season, no matter how you want to spin it.

They did go to a Final Four. But so did Shaka Smart. If memory serves, you don't think he's a great coach, do you?

Yeah. Adjusted Offensive Numbers- Loyola 103, Xavier 106. Same rating on Bart Torvik. Have no idea what you are referring to. I don't subscribe to KenPom, but I can see the offensive efficiency numbers and those numbers are accurate.
Point being, Loyola players younger and not as good but more efficient than Xavier.

[Masterofreality]

Stop blaming the players. It has nothing to do with them. With a relatively mediocre offensive rating of 103, it appears that Loyola doesn't run an offense that puts their players in the best position to score. That's the only explanation.

(The above is known as "taking a page out of your book".)

Not blaming just fact. Younger players better coached. Loyola younger than Xavier without 4 stars, still more efficient.

[XU 87]

Not blaming just fact. Younger players better coached. Loyola younger than Xavier without 4 stars, still more efficient.

Ok, now I get it. When we say, "X didn't have good shooters last year", that's blaming the players, and simply ignores that Steele was the cause of the poor shooting.

But when you say, "Loyola doesn't have as good of players", that just stating the facts, and also means their coach did a great job of coaching these less talented players.

And why do you keep saying Loyola's offense was more efficient when the numbers say otherwise? Please note- the higher the number the better the offense.

[xavierj]

They don't have as good a players as X, not surprising....but still better than us.

And the competition is no where remotely the same either.

[Masterofreality]

Ok, now I get it. When we say, "X didn't have good shooters last year", that's blaming the players, and simply ignores that Steele was the cause of the poor shooting.

But when you say, "Loyola doesn't have as good of players", that just stating the facts, and also means their coach did a great job of coaching these less talented players.

And why do you keep saying Loyola's offense was more efficient when the numbers say otherwise? Please note- the higher the number the better the offense.

YOU said Xavier didn't have good shooters. I never said that. I think our shooters were better than what was shown. I have clearly said that they were never put in the best positions to make shots. Is that clear?

And the fact is that Loyola's players were not as highly recruited as Xavier's. Fact, based upon all the recruiting gurus that so many ascribe to. Plus they were less experienced than Xavier's. That also counts for something. But even with that, they ran in a good system that won 20 games. Yes, in a lesser league, but not chopped liver.

Loyola's offensive system has carried them to a Final 4, despite having less highly regarded players. Xavier has never been and is farther away now than when Steele took over. Case closed Counselor.

[xavierj]

YOU said Xavier didn't have good shooters. I never said that. I think our shooters were better than what was shown. I have clearly said that they were never put in the best positions to make shots. Is that clear?

And the fact is that Loyola's players were not as highly recruited as Xavier's. Fact, based upon all the recruiting gurus that so many ascribe to. Plus they were less experienced than Xavier's. That also counts for something. But even with that, they ran in a good system that won 20 games. Yes, in a lesser league, but not chopped liver.

Loyola's offensive system has carried them to a Final 4, despite having less highly regarded players. Xavier has never been and is farther away now than when Steele took over. Case closed Counselor.

Or maybe Naji just didn't listen to the coaches. Maybe they should have just benched their most gifted player. I mean Paul shot 30% from three as a freshman under Mack to 37% under Steele the last two years. Tandy and Free both were at 35% this year. Naji and Q both at 28% but they combined to shoot 8 threes a game compared to the combined 9 that Scruggs, Free and Tandy shot. Maybe if Naji and wasn't such a ball hog we could have gotten more looks for Tandy and Scruggs. Maybe Steel's biggest mistake was not benching Naji until he got the message on how to make his team better.

[XU 87]

YOU said Xavier didn't have good shooters. I never said that. I think our shooters were better than what was shown. I have clearly said that they were never put in the best positions to make shots. Is that clear?



LOL. I am well aware of that. I'm not sure why you're confused.

[paulxu]

I'd say our players were in good positions to make shots.
Most of the time they were wide open.

[AviatorX]

Yeah. Adjusted Offensive Numbers- Loyola 103, Xavier 106. Same rating on Bart Torvik. Have no idea what you are referring to. I don't subscribe to KenPom, but I can see the offensive efficiency numbers and those numbers are accurate.
Point being, Loyola players younger and not as good but more efficient than Xavier.

Work with me here - how is 103 points per 100 possessions (Loyola) more efficient than 106 points per 100 possessions (Xavier)? Generally you want to score more points.

To put it more plainly - based on KenPom's adjusted offensive numbers, Xavier had the 103rd best offense and Loyola had the 159th best.

[XU 87]

I'd say our players were in good positions to make shots.
Most of the time they were wide open.

For the most part, I tend to agree with you. Take the Creighton home game- Q went 0-6 from the three.... in the first half. But those were WIDE OPEN shots, and he wasn't even coming close. Other than Tandy, who was hot and cold, X didn't have any other good deep shooters. Scruggs can shoot threes, but he needs some room and some time to get his shot off.

[Muskie]

For the most part, I tend to agree with you. Take the Creighton home game- Q went 0-6 from the three.... in the first half. But those were WIDE OPEN shots, and he wasn't even coming close. Other than Tandy, who was hot and cold, X didn't have any other good deep shooters. Scruggs can shoot threes, but he needs some room and some time to get his shot off.

It's no mystery to me why we had wide open shots.

[XU 87]

It's no mystery to me why we had wide open shots.

Yep- they weren't even bothering to guard him on the perimeter. It was kind of incredible. I got to the point where instead of hoping he would make one, he would have one at least go in and out. Baby steps.

But he was so open that you would think he would at least make a couple of those. Instead he missed them, and badly.

[AviatorX]

The Loyola went to the Final Four argument is just plainly stupid in this conversation. I think Porter Moser is a good, not great, coach. He's solid. That said, do you think he was the reason for that Final Four run, or did running into a 7 and 9 seed in the Sweet 16/Elite 8 (after winning two 50/50 one possession games the first weekend) play a part?

BTW, their KenPom offense was a blistering 67th that season, even with the Final Four run (albeit its hard to imagine a more recent weaker list of opponents to get there) baked in.

[Smails]

YOU said Xavier didn't have good shooters. I never said that. I think our shooters were better than what was shown. I have clearly said that they were never put in the best positions to make shots. Is that clear?

.Case closed Counselor.

For someone who fancys himself a FACT guy, you seem to put a lot of stock and value in your OPINION. The FACT is that we did not have good shooters..there is no DATA to dispute that. You're talking in complete circles. Where are your facts that show this team to be a good shooting one?

And Case closed?? You do understand that just by saying that, doesn't make it so,.... right? LOL "and that's the end of it!"

[xavierj]

Next year Xavier will bring back its best 4 shooters, Scruggs 37%, Tandy 35% (should get better), Free 35% and Carter 32% (I think he is a better shooter than that). Xavier will also have Wilcher in who will be the best shooter on the team the minute he steps foot on the campus. I think they will add a 35%+ shooter in the transfer market as well. So next years offense will look much better just by having so many guys on the court at the same time that are a threat from three. In addition, this will also create lanes to the basket for Scruggs, Tandy, Jones and Odom to put it on the floor and go. This past year there were so many times where we had Q, Naji, Carter and Tyrique on the floor at the same time which equaled just pack it in. Xavier could not beat you by the three and there was no space to get to the rim.

[IM4X]

I'd say our players were in good positions to make shots.
Most of the time they were wide open.

Ha. Q and Moore were left wide open (like always) and unfortunately took many of those shots. Though, I also remember many a time (especially during the last 5 games before Paul got hurt) when both Scruggs and Kyky were wide open and teammates (Naji and Q in particular) didn’t even turn their head to look for them. Instead we ended up seeing Naji taking a three or giving m it up to someone else who fumbled their opportunity to score.

Unlike the days of Tre and JP (where it was made clear who should be taking most of the threes) I think players on this roster feel like they are just as capable of making threes as the next guy - and I am not so sure Steele said anything to them to change their thinking.

Steele even stated in press conferences, “if a guy is open he should take the shot.” I don’t recall him saying, “Scruggs and Kyky are our best 3 point shooters. We need to set them up with more open looks from 3.” It would make a lot of sense for a coach. Hoping next season it is much more clear who the few guys are who the team is setting up for the bulk of 3s.

[JEHARDI]

Here’s reality.

19-16 and 19-13. Both years underachieving with the roster we had. An offense that is eye bleeding to watch, does not get to the foul line enough and does not set up players for success resulting in bad setups and bad outcomes. If you want to know the kind of offense I would have put in with this group it would have been The Ball Screen and option offense run by many teams and got Loyola-Chicago to the Final 4 a couple of years ago. For example- The Ramblers typically start their offense with a ball screen action to force the defense to provide help. What makes their offense special is that they attack the help to get open shots, doing so by making the extra pass and getting the ball in the paint. If a player does not have a good shot, he is ready and willing to give the ball up or create for teammate. They MOVE the freaking ball, they don’t have a guy pounding 20 dribbles on the court. Loyola has a big man Krutwig similar to Tyrique Jones. Strong around the hoop, but can’t shoot a lick outside of 5 feet. I think we have/had better shooters than Loyola, but don’t get to the same open spots. A big reason for that was because Tyrique Jones or Carter or even Free hardly ever passed out of the post. They apparently weren’t coached to but Krutwig is. How many times when Tyrique/Carter/Free were doubled did they know where to go with the ball? Not too many because A) They weren’t coached to, B) Our guys were in no position to receive the pass ready to shoot. The result was a continual parade of turnovers. All year. We should have started installing offense and used it IMO starting with Spain, not the wasted AAU ball we saw. Loyola really didn’t have a point guard either this year but their ball movement was still a thing of beauty.

My opinion of Steele is that he is not a good X & O and game coach right now. He is slow to adjust, misses matchup advantages, and is lousy in the player/roster management area. He sets a good defensive plan and can seemingly recruit.
Can he improve? Only time will tell, but he’ll be around next year.
You guys keep picking apart college players while leaving the coach untouched. You question players who are now getting paid & players who are just leaving who underperformed while at Xavier while forgiving the coach of everything. Whatever. You have your opinion, and you can childishly call me all the clever names you want just because I am not a fan of Steele and not afraid to say it. Ain’t bothering me. We’ll eventually see who was right. I sincerely hope we’re not 4 years in with no Dance.
That’s it.

Loyola? you really have lost all touch with reality. I guess wins and losses and poor offensive stats in a weak conference mean nothing when you don’t have a bug up your ass for the coach. Has a team-coach ever done less to leverage an incredible run to a FF than Loyola and Porter.

[JEHARDI]

They don't have as good a players as X, not surprising....but still better than us.

They don’t play the same level of competition either. You are an absolute joke.

[JEHARDI]

Work with me here - how is 103 points per 100 possessions (Loyola) more efficient than 106 points per 100 possessions (Xavier)? Generally you want to score more points.

To put it more plainly - based on KenPom's adjusted offensive numbers, Xavier had the 103rd best offense and Loyola had the 159th best.

Becoming abundantly clear MOR has no idea what he is taking about.

[IM4X]

I agree with this, but also think that not many coaches, knowing their team is terrible from 3 (and we were terrible), would allow the type of offense he allowed with this team. Game after game, the team relied on the things they did the worst. It never really made sense to me.

You and I were both apparently scratching our heads.

[XU_Lou]

Loyola? you really have lost all touch with reality. I guess wins and losses and poor offensive stats in a weak conference mean nothing when you don’t have a bug up your ass for the coach. Has a team-coach ever done less to leverage an incredible run to a FF than Loyola and Porter.

That's precisely why we call him MOaR - the Master Of alternate Reality. MOar is the resident toothless UK fan on this board...

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Next year Xavier will bring back its best 4 shooters, Scruggs 37%, Tandy 35% (should get better), Free 35% and Carter 32% (I think he is a better shooter than that). Xavier will also have Wilcher in who will be the best shooter on the team the minute he steps foot on the campus. I think they will add a 35%+ shooter in the transfer market as well. So next years offense will look much better just by having so many guys on the court at the same time that are a threat from three. In addition, this will also create lanes to the basket for Scruggs, Tandy, Jones and Odom to put it on the floor and go. This past year there were so many times where we had Q, Naji, Carter and Tyrique on the floor at the same time which equaled just pack it in. Xavier could not beat you by the three and there was no space to get to the rim.

Let's be careful here. About this time, last year, we on this board were licking our chops in anticipation of four starters returning and along with the transfer of Ohio University's top scorer. Plus, we had four (count em FOUR) highly rated freshman recruits. Man oh Man was it going to be a great season...............

[Muskie]

Let's be careful here. About this time, last year, we on this board were licking our chops in anticipation of four starters returning and along with the transfer of Ohio University's top scorer. Plus, we had four (count em FOUR) highly rated freshman recruits. Man oh Man was it going to be a great season...............

We were all riding the high of the progress made at the end of the year (which in retrospect was largely due to Grad Transfers).

[XUMIOH12]

We were all riding the high of the progress made at the end of the year (which in retrospect was largely due to Grad Transfers).

*largely due to Hankins

[Masterofreality]

That's precisely why we call him MOaR - the Master Of alternate Reality. MOar is the resident toothless UK fan on this board...

This is my last post on this thread, and this board for a while. You sir are clueless.

A) I played basketball 3 years varsity in High School.
B) I coached 6 years of High School basketball in Georgia (Stone Mountain High School)
C) We had kids and relocated to NE Ohio and couldn't continue coaching HS, but I still coached at various levels- up to Jr High for another 17 years.
D) My family is very close and has always been involved in basketball, being from Louisville originally myself.
E) My cousin, Ceal Barry played at UK, asst coached at UK, became Clifton Community's Head Coach and then was hired at Colorado, where she won over 500 games, an Olympic Gold Medal and two years ago was inducted in the Womens Basketball Hall of Fame. We have always been, and remained close. I stayed with them when Xavier played at Colorado in 2016. I have always leaned on her for advice and input in coaching. (Aside she beat all of our asses in H_O_R_S_E for years)
F) Another cousin played basketball for Bellarmine. We remain close.

Sorry if that is "Toothless", snark-ass. And I hate UK, and Louisewer U for that matter even though my Mother went there.

I have basketball knowledge and opinions based in, yes REALITY. I was challenged on another thread to state what offense I would have run with this team as opposed to what Steele ran. There are other types of offenses, but I picked the Loyola offense primarily because of the fact that Loyola had a dominant Big Man in Krutwig that they needed to play through- similar to Tyrique Jones-that couldn't really shoot from outside 8 feet. And they also had young guards who weren't the best shooters yet. That same system had been to Final Four, yes with different players, but it worked. Yes, there are totally different levels of competition, and yes there are different players on each team, but we are talking about an organized overall system.

If anyone on here was satisfied with a ball-sticking, one guy dribble the ball 20 times, one high ball-screen, then a one-on-one-attempt-to-bail-the-possession-out offense that was seen this year, then great. Glad you are rosy glasses guy. But most would say that this offense was poorly designed and sucked. I can only hope that the 19-16 , 19-13 Coach is doing some homework this Quarantine Season to put a better O product out there than this was this year, and, quite frankly, can match the improvement on defense that he created this year. I can only hope that these recruits, and new transfers that are coming in, are talented to the trumpeted level and are used to the max in a "system" that best uses what they can do. Maybe Steele goes back and looks at the amazing ball movement that was exhibited by the 2004 Run team? Maybe he goes back and sees the differences in how the offense was set under Mack in some of these NCAA Tournament games? Maybe he looks at the motion flex that Loyola and other teams use? Maybe he even goes back and sees how a zone defense when sprinkled in there, like it was by Beaknose in 2004 vs Louisville and Miss State, can really work. How nice would it have been to get that Marquette game back? Whatever. It needs to get better.

Finally. I do not have a personal bug up my ass for Steele. I've met him, his wife and cute Winston. He's an engaging guy. I have a bug for underachievement and what happens to the school that I love when this basketball program fails, and fails with a talented roster- a roster which other coaches in the Big East much smarter than I, called talented by votes preseason and post season. I have had to fire people, people I liked, but were grossly underachieving. That's life. Production and Performance is key. We're a lot farther away from the Final 4 than we were 3 years ago.

Steele will be back next year. That's a certainty. Time will tell if he turns this around. But no one can now say that he "doesn't have his players". He's decided on these transfers and he will have 10 players on this roster that he himself made the decision to bring in. Yes, they will be young, but I want to see organization early. If I see that, and also better and quicker bench adjustments and decisions, then I'm fine with a mediocre record next year because , just like in 1995-1996, with freshmen D Williams, Lenny Brown, and G Lumpkin, there is hope.

In the meantime, I'm renewing and increasing my Season Ticket count for next year, I'm stepping up my AFO contributions and I'll be at the AFO Golf Outing and Butler County Steak Fry in June. I have no idea what anyone else is doing, but my commitment is solid to Xavier. Who ever the coach is.

That's it. Have a great summer.

[drudy23]

A

[whopper]

*largely due to Hankinsit is a dead issue but Welage for Naj won the st johns game (worth 2 games as we missed Wednesday) and Castlin won the Creighton game ("won" means the player who made the biggest difference and Hankins was great in both games)

[paulxu]

Nobody screamed louder than I did for more movement in our offense this past year.
But upon reading MOR's overview above, it caused me to think about something else.

The coach should know how to get the most out of his players.
UNC was picked 9/11 in preaseason, Roy does know how to coach, he did (like us) have some injuries impact the team, but look where they finished.
Was he not getting the best out of his team?

Perhaps Steele got the best our team could give. Maybe if we had more movement in our offense, we would have had more TO's.
That's almost impossible to contemplate.
Maybe we just needed more people that could hit an open 3. That alone would have made all the difference in any number of games.
Or...making 70% of our FT's. That also would have won some games.
Hard to put that on Steele.

Looking forward to next year!

[MADXSTER]

MOR and Paul both make good points. A coach tells a shooter like Bluiett to keep on shooting to get out of a slump. But you don't tell guys who are not shooters to keep on shooting just because they might make one every now and then. The offense seemed to move the ball early in the game and then would fizzle out with no adjustment to get back to moving the ball. It seemed to take too long to get both Tyrique and Free on the floor at the same time. That experiment should have happened much quicker. Hopefully coach is learning and we don't see much of what we saw last year.

[Final4]

This is my last post on this thread, and this board for a while. You sir are clueless.

A) I played basketball 3 years varsity in High School.
B) I coached 6 years of High School basketball in Georgia (Stone Mountain High School)
C) We had kids and relocated to NE Ohio and couldn't continue coaching HS, but I still coached at various levels- up to Jr High for another 17 years.
D) My family is very close and has always been involved in basketball, being from Louisville originally myself.
E) My cousin, Ceal Barry played at UK, asst coached at UK, became Clifton Community's Head Coach and then was hired at Colorado, where she won over 500 games, an Olympic Gold Medal and two years ago was inducted in the Womens Basketball Hall of Fame. We have always been, and remained close. I stayed with them when Xavier played at Colorado in 2016. I have always leaned on her for advice and input in coaching. (Aside she beat all of our asses in H_O_R_S_E for years)
F) Another cousin played basketball for Bellarmine. We remain close.

Sorry if that is "Toothless", snark-ass. And I hate UK, and Louisewer U for that matter even though my Mother went there.

I have basketball knowledge and opinions based in, yes REALITY. I was challenged on another thread to state what offense I would have run with this team as opposed to what Steele ran. There are other types of offenses, but I picked the Loyola offense primarily because of the fact that Loyola had a dominant Big Man in Krutwig that they needed to play through- similar to Tyrique Jones-that couldn't really shoot from outside 8 feet. And they also had young guards who weren't the best shooters yet. That same system had been to Final Four, yes with different players, but it worked. Yes, there are totally different levels of competition, and yes there are different players on each team, but we are talking about an organized overall system.

If anyone on here was satisfied with a ball-sticking, one guy dribble the ball 20 times, one high ball-screen, then a one-on-one-attempt-to-bail-the-possession-out offense that was seen this year, then great. Glad you are rosy glasses guy. But most would say that this offense was poorly designed and sucked. I can only hope that the 19-16 , 19-13 Coach is doing some homework this Quarantine Season to put a better O product out there than this was this year, and, quite frankly, can match the improvement on defense that he created this year. I can only hope that these recruits, and new transfers that are coming in, are talented to the trumpeted level and are used to the max in a "system" that best uses what they can do. Maybe Steele goes back and looks at the amazing ball movement that was exhibited by the 2004 Run team? Maybe he goes back and sees the differences in how the offense was set under Mack in some of these NCAA Tournament games? Maybe he looks at the motion flex that Loyola and other teams use? Maybe he even goes back and sees how a zone defense when sprinkled in there, like it was by Beaknose in 2004 vs Louisville and Miss State, can really work. How nice would it have been to get that Marquette game back? Whatever. It needs to get better.

Finally. I do not have a personal bug up my ass for Steele. I've met him, his wife and cute Winston. He's an engaging guy. I have a bug for underachievement and what happens to the school that I love when this basketball program fails, and fails with a talented roster- a roster which other coaches in the Big East much smarter than I, called talented by votes preseason and post season. I have had to fire people, people I liked, but were grossly underachieving. That's life. Production and Performance is key. We're a lot farther away from the Final 4 than we were 3 years ago.

Steele will be back next year. That's a certainty. Time will tell if he turns this around. But no one can now say that he "doesn't have his players". He's decided on these transfers and he will have 10 players on this roster that he himself made the decision to bring in. Yes, they will be young, but I want to see organization early. If I see that, and also better and quicker bench adjustments and decisions, then I'm fine with a mediocre record next year because , just like in 1995-1996, with freshmen D Williams, Lenny Brown, and G Lumpkin, there is hope.

In the meantime, I'm renewing and increasing my Season Ticket count for next year, I'm stepping up my AFO contributions and I'll be at the AFO Golf Outing and Butler County Steak Fry in June. I have no idea what anyone else is doing, but my commitment is solid to Xavier. Who ever the coach is.

That's it. Have a great summer.

This kinda' reminds me of one of those obnoxious letters you occasionally get with Xmas cards. You know the...….my husband retired this year as a self- made multimillionaire. Always his dream to retire at 40. We split most of our time these days between our chalet in Vail and our house in Turks. Rarely are we at our Manhattan penthouse these day. Our oldest son just graduated from Harvard Medical School at 18...…...

[XUGRAD80]

I started to write a long retort to MOR, but then decided not to.

Have a nice summer MOR.

[whopper]

you wear your heart on your sleeve for sure. Enjoy the summer and lets hope that next year is more enjoyable..may not be better record but more enjoyable to watch
This is my last post on this thread, and this board for a while. You sir are clueless.

A) I played basketball 3 years varsity in High School.
B) I coached 6 years of High School basketball in Georgia (Stone Mountain High School)
C) We had kids and relocated to NE Ohio and couldn't continue coaching HS, but I still coached at various levels- up to Jr High for another 17 years.
D) My family is very close and has always been involved in basketball, being from Louisville originally myself.
E) My cousin, Ceal Barry played at UK, asst coached at UK, became Clifton Community's Head Coach and then was hired at Colorado, where she won over 500 games, an Olympic Gold Medal and two years ago was inducted in the Womens Basketball Hall of Fame. We have always been, and remained close. I stayed with them when Xavier played at Colorado in 2016. I have always leaned on her for advice and input in coaching. (Aside she beat all of our asses in H_O_R_S_E for years)
F) Another cousin played basketball for Bellarmine. We remain close.

Sorry if that is "Toothless", snark-ass. And I hate UK, and Louisewer U for that matter even though my Mother went there.

I have basketball knowledge and opinions based in, yes REALITY. I was challenged on another thread to state what offense I would have run with this team as opposed to what Steele ran. There are other types of offenses, but I picked the Loyola offense primarily because of the fact that Loyola had a dominant Big Man in Krutwig that they needed to play through- similar to Tyrique Jones-that couldn't really shoot from outside 8 feet. And they also had young guards who weren't the best shooters yet. That same system had been to Final Four, yes with different players, but it worked. Yes, there are totally different levels of competition, and yes there are different players on each team, but we are talking about an organized overall system.

If anyone on here was satisfied with a ball-sticking, one guy dribble the ball 20 times, one high ball-screen, then a one-on-one-attempt-to-bail-the-possession-out offense that was seen this year, then great. Glad you are rosy glasses guy. But most would say that this offense was poorly designed and sucked. I can only hope that the 19-16 , 19-13 Coach is doing some homework this Quarantine Season to put a better O product out there than this was this year, and, quite frankly, can match the improvement on defense that he created this year. I can only hope that these recruits, and new transfers that are coming in, are talented to the trumpeted level and are used to the max in a "system" that best uses what they can do. Maybe Steele goes back and looks at the amazing ball movement that was exhibited by the 2004 Run team? Maybe he goes back and sees the differences in how the offense was set under Mack in some of these NCAA Tournament games? Maybe he looks at the motion flex that Loyola and other teams use? Maybe he even goes back and sees how a zone defense when sprinkled in there, like it was by Beaknose in 2004 vs Louisville and Miss State, can really work. How nice would it have been to get that Marquette game back? Whatever. It needs to get better.

Finally. I do not have a personal bug up my ass for Steele. I've met him, his wife and cute Winston. He's an engaging guy. I have a bug for underachievement and what happens to the school that I love when this basketball program fails, and fails with a talented roster- a roster which other coaches in the Big East much smarter than I, called talented by votes preseason and post season. I have had to fire people, people I liked, but were grossly underachieving. That's life. Production and Performance is key. We're a lot farther away from the Final 4 than we were 3 years ago.

Steele will be back next year. That's a certainty. Time will tell if he turns this around. But no one can now say that he "doesn't have his players". He's decided on these transfers and he will have 10 players on this roster that he himself made the decision to bring in. Yes, they will be young, but I want to see organization early. If I see that, and also better and quicker bench adjustments and decisions, then I'm fine with a mediocre record next year because , just like in 1995-1996, with freshmen D Williams, Lenny Brown, and G Lumpkin, there is hope.

In the meantime, I'm renewing and increasing my Season Ticket count for next year, I'm stepping up my AFO contributions and I'll be at the AFO Golf Outing and Butler County Steak Fry in June. I have no idea what anyone else is doing, but my commitment is solid to Xavier. Who ever the coach is.

That's it. Have a great summer.

[drudy23]

While I still do have some reservations about Steele, I'm optimistic about next year. BUT - the team has to gel. The last 2 years were anti-Xavier basketball in terms of cohesion and being on the same page.

If this team can get to a place where everyone plays for each other, they will be fine. I'm convinced the issues the past two years weren't basketball skill related.

I'm hoping Scruggs comes back because I think he will be the leader this program needs and has been missing. Freemantle is the kind of player where leadership is also in his blood, and he will be able to exude more having a year under his belt. I'd make both captains (not sure if X does that, but Scruggs is the alpha dog, and Free keeps guys in check).

I still do expect the NCAA tournament. There can't be years where that isn't an expectation.

[XUGRAD80]

I still do expect the NCAA tournament. There can't be years where that isn't an expectation.

I’d consider it the goal, but I’m not so sure that it should be a realistic expectation for NEXT season. Not at this point anyway. To much uncertainty about the roster, it’s makeup and their abilities. To many questions left to be answered about Xavier AND about the rest of the BE for me to say now, that I expect them to be in the NCAA tournament at the end of the season.

[XU 87]

I’d consider it the goal, but I’m not so sure that it should be a realistic expectation for NEXT season. Not at this point anyway. To much uncertainty about the roster, it’s makeup and their abilities. To many questions left to be answered about Xavier AND about the rest of the BE for me to say now, that I expect them to be in the NCAA tournament at the end of the season.

X has three returning starters and is also returning the top bench guy with Tandy, who will very likely be a starter. There are three good recruits coming in, and while you never know with freshman, I have to think that one or two of them will contribute, similar to this year. If they don't go to the tourney next year, then Steele will be on the hot seat in year 4, or at least on the warm seat.

[XUGRAD80]

Yeah, well we all said the same thing about this last year....returners, top recruiting class, solid transfers. How’d that work out?

[XU 87]

Yeah, well we all said the same thing about this last year....returners, top recruiting class, solid transfers. How’d that work out?

Not so good?

That said, this was definite tourney team until Scruggs got hurt and they lost their last three. Even then, I think they were still in, albeit in Dayton.

[xavierj]

Yeah, well we all said the same thing about this last year....returners, top recruiting class, solid transfers. How’d that work out?

Equaled a flawed team. Selfish play at times, bad shooters and lack of consistent 40 minute effort by some guys. I am not going to name names, but Xavier had at least one bad teammate. Good thing this year is the shooters will be much better at all 5 positions. Don’t know if it will equal better results, but wouldn’t shock me.

[IM4X]

Let’s not forget that there is a standard at X. Steele understands the situation. He must find a way to meet that standard. We can not keep blaming the players and excuse the coach. While everyone shares some responsibility for the team not living up to expectations the past two years, the buck stops with the coach.

We never allowed other coaches to make excuses for not making the tournament in consecutive years. Either those coaches can take the talent they inherit along with the players they add and mold them into a tournament team
or they can’t.

From my perspective, there are zero excuses for X to not make the NCAA Tournament next season should we be safely through this virus. I think Travis believes that as well. I do think we will have better shooters and more guards who are capable of scoring in the paint. I am excited to see what Miles is capable of doing too. I believe we will have a much more balanced team. I expect us to win more. I want to see Travis grow. Ultimately, we all know what the standard is at X and we need to see that starting next season.

[XUGRAD80]

Like I said...that’s the GOAL. But at the present time I’m not going to say that I expect them to meet that goal. That may change later, but I’m going into the next season with low expectations, which I HOPE are blown away by the actual results. I’m not going into the season with high expectations, but I am cautiously optimistic that they might reach that goal.

To many young players, to many question marks.

[xavierj]

Like I said...that’s the GOAL. But at the present time I’m not going to say that I expect them to meet that goal. That may change later, but I’m going into the next season with low expectations, which I HOPE are blown away by the actual results. I’m not going into the season with high expectations, but I am cautiously optimistic that they might reach that goal.

To many young players, to many question marks.

My expectations will be the same as every year. I go into every game expecting Xavier to win. For me next year will be no different. Sure I will be pissed after every loss and happy after every win, but will always believe they will win. Next year though we are really not so young. Scruggs a senior, Carter a senior in his 5th year of college, and two grad transfers. Plus Tandy and Free are no longer rookies.

[XUGRAD80]

Ha....if you have really expecting them to win when they were playing Villanova the last few years, I hope you’re a betting man and I can get some of that action!

[IM4X]

Every coach from Gillen to Mack had to deal with young players and other unknowns. It is no different for Steele. The standard is the standard at X and that has to apply to Travis. He is expected to do at least as well as his predecessors. That means winning more than 20 games a seasons and getting to the dance (beyond the first round even) on a regular basis. This we know is the Xavier way. He knows it’s what is expected of him and he knows it needs to happen next year.

He now has the guys he has hand picked, though in truth, he had a hand in recruiting some of the veterans on the team the last two years as well. It’s time to step up and mold his guys into winners.

There were a number of things said and done (good recruiting, improved defense) that proves Travis has some qualities needed to be that next great X coach. At the same time, he has also made some bad decisions and even said some questionable things that one hopes are early mistakes he will learn from and correct- The way almost all of the coaches who came before him did.

Obviously having more players who can hit 3s will help a coach look better. As Gillen once said when calling an X game, ((I may be slightly butchering this quote) “Good shooting forgives a lot of sins.” It would have forgiven a lot of sins by both this coaching staff and the team this season. My guess is that some sins will be forgiven next season because the shooting will be a bit better.

Still, it’s important that the team and coaches cut back on some of their many sins we have seen over the past two years (including turnovers, poor ball movement, poor decision making, lack of effective pressing, not getting to the line enough, poor foul shooting, lack of leadership).

I will be eager to see how Travis, his staff and next season’s team responds. But the standard has been (and therefor our expectations ought to continue to be) that X makes the tournament.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Like I said...that’s the GOAL. But at the present time I’m not going to say that I expect them to meet that goal. That may change later, but I’m going into the next season with low expectations, which I HOPE are blown away by the actual results. I’m not going into the season with high expectations, but I am cautiously optimistic that they might reach that goal.

To many young players, to many question marks.

See above comment by IM4X. A goal without expectations of achievement isn't a goal. Its a wish. I say no more wishes and certainly no more excuses. I don't want to hear anymore about "Mack's recruits", the difficulty of transitioning from "friend of the players to man in charge", "poor B-ball IQ's", "poor shooters", "injuries", blah, blah and blah.

Coach Steele has had the break-in period he deserves. Now, he needs to step up. No more excuses.

[XUGRAD80]

So you’re saying that making the tourney next year isn’t a realistic goal? LOL


It’s just that sometimes reality gets in the way of “standards”. IMO we shouldn’t “expect” them to make the NCAA tourney NEXT year. That might mean that they don’t live up to the standards that they should be held to, and that they are a failure. I just have a different way of looking at it. I try not to have unrealistic expectations that are based on hope and hype more than reality.

[paulxu]

Not to revise history, but to offer some perspective.
Sean Miller took over from Matta, who took us to the E8 in his last year.

He inherited 3 starters from that E8 team and added Burrell and Thornton (who had missed a year).
He missed the tournament in his first year.
In his second year he was knocked out in the first round.
He won 38 games in his first two years. 17 W's in year one.

Steele lost Blueitt, Macura, Kanter, O'Mara and Gates.
Just like Miller, he missed the tournament but won 19 in year one.
Steele had 38 W's also in his first 2 years.

I think we would have made the tourney this year, although maybe in the first four.
Regardless, their records seem comparable and I'm looking for good things next year.

[drudy23]

Next year's team will have a whole different dynamic. That alone will be a good thing.

If we come out with the same hesitancy and lack of cohesion on offense, there will be a very short trigger on this board, as it should be. If they are playing for each other and simply need some time to adjust to each other - fine.

But I can't take another year of watching what this offense has been for the last 2 years.

Our best teams have always relied on a bunch of guys that can get theirs on any given night. Hopefully we get back to that where every body is a legit threat to score.

[hydmuskie]

I think we were a top 5 BE team when it came to defense, hustle, energy, and game planning.
We sucked at PG decisioning, turnovers and 3 Pt shooting.

I think Coach can carry over into next year the defense, game planning and energy level of the team from this year. If he can then add in 2 of the three (better decisioning from the PG, 3 Pt Shooting and limit turnovers to below 10 a game) then we are dancing.

Of the 3 I think we are more likely to see a return to form of 3 Pt shooting - we have more shooters now - and better PG decisioning.

Turnovers below 10 in BE play will be key. I believe that bad turnover habits emerge in lackadasical practice. In game turnovers depends on how talented the practice squad is. If they are going HARD at you - it prepares you to not make lazy passes, make better decisions out of the press etc etc. If your practice squad is noticeably less talented than your starters - I think you have TO trouble again next year.

[sirthought]

There should be no debate. There was certainly enough talent on this season's team, a probably last season's too, that they could have gotten to the tournament. X has made it that far on far less talent. It's more about team and game management to pull out wins. Yeah, the players have to execute, but the staff are able to hold things as tight or loose as needed.

Next season will have some of the highest concentration of higher-level recruits in the history of the school. That doesn't mean they are ready to win every game. But the potential is better than ever. Can the coaches get them there?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Of the 3 I think we are more likely to see a return to form of 3 Pt shooting - we have more shooters now - and better PG decisioning.



How do we know we have better PG decision making? We have Scruggss and Kyky who werent great at PG by any means. I think we really need to rely on Odom and hope he is the real deal from the jump. But we dont know he will be yet.

I get Q was bad and completely frustrating but I wouldnt say he was the only one responsible for poor PG play last year.

Lets hope Kyky makes a jump with PG play and Odom is real deal. Scruggs is way more effective off the ball.

[Muskie]

How do we know we have better PG decision making? We have Scruggss and Kyky who werent great at PG by any means. I think we really need to rely on Odom and hope he is the real deal from the jump. But we dont know he will be yet.

I get Q was bad and completely frustrating but I wouldnt say he was the only one responsible for poor PG play last year.

Lets hope Kyky makes a jump with PG play and Odom is real deal. Scruggs is way more effective off the ball.

Was Q perfect last year? Far from it. But his game definitely suffered from the lack of shooters on the team as well.

[MADXSTER]

Was Q perfect last year? Far from it. But his game definitely suffered from the lack of shooters on the team as well.

You could say this about every player on last year's team.

[JTG]

I think the shooting next year WILL make up for some other shortcomings next year. And we should expect to dance every year.

[hydmuskie]

Turnovers
Scruggs 0.08/min
KyKy 0.06/min
Goodin 0.08/min

Points
Scruggs 0.38/min
KyKy 0.36/min
Goodin 0.23/min

Assists
Scruggs 0.09/min
KyKy 0.05/min
Goodin 0.12/min

While Goodin's assists are decent - his decisioning was poor in two dimensions. Poor shot selection - you can see it in his abysmal 0.23 pts/min. He also had a fair amount of Turnovers 0.08/min second only to Naji. If Kyky and Odom can limit TO from the PG spot to 0.6/min and score at 0.35/min (taking shots and making them), I would consider that better PG decisioning.

In researching this I also found that between Q and Naji they were responsible for 37% of the teams TOs.. was not aware of that... hopefully we replace them with 2 guys who don't turn it over that much.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Turnovers
Scruggs 0.08/min
KyKy 0.06/min
Goodin 0.08/min

Points
Scruggs 0.38/min
KyKy 0.36/min
Goodin 0.23/min

Assists
Scruggs 0.09/min
KyKy 0.05/min
Goodin 0.12/min

While Goodin's assists are decent - his decisioning was poor in two dimensions. Poor shot selection - you can see it in his abysmal 0.23 pts/min. He also had a fair amount of Turnovers 0.08/min second only to Naji. If Kyky and Odom can limit TO from the PG spot to 0.6/min and score at 0.35/min (taking shots and making them), I would consider that better PG decisioning.

In researching this I also found that between Q and Naji they were responsible for 37% of the teams TOs.. was not aware of that... hopefully we replace them with 2 guys who don't turn it over that much.

Yeah Scruggs and Kyky have far better offense which makes it easier to swallow turnovers but still we need Odom to be legit from the start and KyKy to play much better as a PG for our PG play to really improve. I always get nervous relying so heavily on freshman at key positions. Odom does seem like hes going to be one of the special ones though.

Also I mean this in a non mean way or anything but I was super doubting myself when I kept seeing you use the word decisioning and I was like that can't be a real word can it? Then I thought maybe it is. I looked it up on google and first thing gave a definition and I was like shit it is. But that was like a slang site and it isnt actually a word in the dictionary. Not important just thought it was funny I had to look it up.

[surfxu]

I looked it up on google and first thing gave a definition and I was like shit it is. But that was like a slang site and it isnt actually a word in the dictionary. Not important just thought it was funny I had to look it up.

This is a symptom of the quarantine. No way this would happen on a Friday afternoon during the good old "pre-teen" days. Stay safe everyone, we're all going a little crazy. Movie of the day to avoid... The Shining.

[MHettel]

Turnovers
Scruggs 0.08/min
KyKy 0.06/min
Goodin 0.08/min

Points
Scruggs 0.38/min
KyKy 0.36/min
Goodin 0.23/min

Assists
Scruggs 0.09/min
KyKy 0.05/min
Goodin 0.12/min

While Goodin's assists are decent - his decisioning was poor in two dimensions. Poor shot selection - you can see it in his abysmal 0.23 pts/min. He also had a fair amount of Turnovers 0.08/min second only to Naji. If Kyky and Odom can limit TO from the PG spot to 0.6/min and score at 0.35/min (taking shots and making them), I would consider that better PG decisioning.

In researching this I also found that between Q and Naji they were responsible for 37% of the teams TOs.. was not aware of that... hopefully we replace them with 2 guys who don't turn it over that much.

is it cause and effect?
or is it effect and cause?

I could easily make the argument that Goodins inability to score turned a lot of potential assists into....well just that...POTENTIAL assists.

I hold Goodin accountable for what seemed to me as a lack of focus and passion over the last 2 years, but he doesn't get all the blame for the performance of the team. I like MOST of the players on an individual basis. I think most of them could've been contributors on some of our best teams over the years. But these guys together just didn't work. To many guys that had the same weaknesses: Turnover prone, poor deep shooting, cant get to the line, cant make FTs.

looking forward to a new mix of guys next year

[XU 87]

Don James is transferring to Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team).

[Masterofreality]

Close to home.

[XU 87]

Close to home.

Depends on how you define close. Jacksonville is about 320 miles from his hometown. Closer than XU though.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Don James is transferring to Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team).

Isn't that where Hardin transferred to last year...........and where Hardin is now transferring from?

Yikes!

[IM4X]

Thanks for letting us know XU 87.

Good for him. I hope he gets lots of playing time and excels there. He might be my favorite player at X who transferred out.

Hey, maybe that ought to be a new thread: Your favorite player at X who transferred out.

[Smails]

Thanks for letting us know XU 87.

Good for him. I hope he gets lots of playing time and excels there. He might be my favorite player at X who transferred out.

Hey, maybe that ought to be a new thread: Your favorite player at X who transferred out.

That's called the Dez Wells tribute thread

[XUGRAD80]

Must be because they opened up the beaches today. Good for him, hope he does well and enjoys his time. Probably a better fit.

[XU 87]

Isn't that where Hardin transferred to last year...........and where Hardin is now transferring from?

Yikes!

Hardin went Jacksonville State.

[XU 87]

Hey, maybe that ought to be a new thread: Your favorite player at X who transferred out.

I'll go with either Makinde London- funny guy who I met a few times and who the staff wanted to stay or

Jaison Williams- who was a decent player in his one year here and later started at Oklahoma.

The best player was Mark Lyons.

[xeus]

Don James is transferring to Jacksonville (the college not the NFL team).

I wish the Enquirer would have included this important point in the story.

[xu82]

I wish the Enquirer would have included this important point in the story.

It’s somewhat confusing. If Makinde went to the Jags, he’d be a part-time Londoner.

[XUGRAD80]

So how many here can(without looking it up) tell me what the nickname of the Jacksonville U teams is, and who is their most famous basketball alumni? Would think anyone over the age of 55-60 would know this pretty easily.

[XUBob]

The Dolphins. Artis Gilmore. I was all in for them in the NCAA. Starting line up. Artis Gilmore, Pembrooke Burrows, Chip Douglas, Vaughn Wendiking (spelling) & Rex Morgan. From memory —no google. Coached by Joe (I think ) Walters who later left for the Furman job.

[IM4X]

That's called the Dez Wells tribute thread

Oh yes. I guess Dez did technically transfer out- even if it wasn’t his choice. Good one.

He would also be on my list of “Favorite X players of all time”

and at the very top of my list of “Recruits X landed you were most excited about after seeing their recruiting highlight reel.”

[IM4X]

I'll go with either Makinde London- funny guy who I met a few times and who the staff wanted to stay or

Jaison Williams- who was a decent player in his one year here and later started at Oklahoma.

The best player was Mark Lyons.

Those are really good ones too.

London reminds me a little of London. An “All in’ team player who everyone seems to like and root for. I too wish he would have stayed.

[XUGRAD80]

The Dolphins. Artis Gilmore. I was all in for them in the NCAA. Starting line up. Artis Gilmore, Pembrooke Burrows, Chip Douglas, Vaughn Wendiking (spelling) & Rex Morgan. From memory —no google. Coached by Joe (I think ) Walters who later left for the Furman job.

Right on! Right on! One of my favorite teams of all time! There was a really good TV show on not to long ago that went into the whole story about how the team was built and where the players came from. They came together almost by accident and really took the BB world by storm. They were such a change from how the average college BB team looked and played at that time. Loved them! I just knew someone else would also have been a fan. :jumpforjoy:

[XUBob]

Do you remember the show’s name,I’d love to watch it. I guess I can try to find it through google too.

[SM#24]

Brian Walsh

[XUGRAD80]

Do you remember the show’s name,I’d love to watch it. I guess I can try to find it through google too.

Jacksonville U Can Do! On CBS sports network.

[xudash]

The Dolphins. Artis Gilmore. I was all in for them in the NCAA. Starting line up. Artis Gilmore, Pembrooke Burrows, Chip Douglas, Vaughn Wendiking (spelling) & Rex Morgan. From memory —no google. Coached by Joe (I think ) Walters who later left for the Furman job.

I have been with Artis Gilmore on a number of occasions. He went on to work in a relationship position for WW Gay, which is a very large contractor based here in Jacksonville, serving the Southeast. Bob Gay is a very good friend of mine. Bob introduced me to Artis and we have since seen one another on occasion at charity golf events around town.

Anyway, he is a real gentleman, and expect to have your hand engulfed if you shake his hand. A very large dude.

[Xuperman]

James tearing it up in Jacksonville.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=401264388

Leads the team in scoring at just under 20 pg while splashing a lot of 3's at a smoking hot 46% clip.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/294

[bleedXblue]

James tearing it up in Jacksonville.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=401264388

Leads the team in scoring at just under 20 pg while splashing a lot of 3's at a smoking hot 46% clip.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/294

Good for him, but it was clear he was not high level D1 talent.