Recruiting Top Transfers

[Xuperman]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28167956/college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2020-21-2021-22

Here's an updated transfer list that covers the current situation in detail. It's early, but hard to find any solid Xavier possibilities here, although several other Big East teams are linked to some of the top guys. I guess we will be ok without one for next year but an experienced big would certainly be a plus.

That said, I thought a discussion on our recent success (BE era) in recruiting productive transfers would be a good one...especially in comparison to other BE teams. IMO, we have been at/near the bottom of the conference in getting players that make any serious impact. Yes, I realize that Hankins/Kanter finished strong and Bernard did that Bernard thing but other than Big Stain, we've landed no one close to a Struss, Paschal, Yurt, Figgy or even a Charlie Moore/Pipkins/McEwen type that can start, eat up minutes and provide some all conference type play.

What these players have in common is that they are not "one and dones" and it looks like the other coaches go after those guys by design. Where as, other than Carter, X has recently used the transfer system strictly for role players.

Transfers have become much more a part of the high D1 landscape. X needs to hit a home run at some point. But hey, if Steele can continue to bring in Top 100 freshman the situation becomes much less necessary.
:logo:

[xavierj]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28167956/college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2020-21-2021-22

Here's an updated transfer list that covers the current situation in detail. It's early, but hard to find any solid Xavier possibilities here, although several other Big East teams are linked to some of the top guys. I guess we will be ok without one for next year but an experienced big would certainly be a plus.

That said, I thought a discussion on our recent success (BE era) in recruiting productive transfers would be a good one...especially in comparison to other BE teams. IMO, we have been at/near the bottom of the conference in getting players that make any serious impact. Yes, I realize that Hankins/Kanter finished strong and Bernard did that Bernard thing but other than Big Stain, we've landed no one close to a Struss, Paschal, Yurt, Figgy or even a Charlie Moore/Pipkins/McEwen type that can start, eat up minutes and provide some all conference type play.

What these players have in common is that they are not "one and dones" and it looks like the other coaches go after those guys by design. Where as, other than Carter, X has recently used the transfer system strictly for role players.

Transfers have become much more a part of the high D1 landscape. X needs to hit a home run at some point. But hey, if Steele can continue to bring in Top 100 freshman the situation becomes much less necessary.
:logo:

Xavier is recruiting a couple of these guys. I think Xavier has a good shot at Jamarius Burton. I think they will talk to Marfo as they recruited him before and the Landers kid from Virginia Tech once was recruited by Jonas and was committed to Georgia, so you never know.

[IM4X]

Xavier is recruiting a couple of these guys. I think Xavier has a good shot at Jamarius Burton. I think they will talk to Marfo as they recruited him before and the Landers kid from Virginia Tech once was recruited by Jonas and was committed to Georgia, so you never know.

Yes. At least according to 247( 2 days ago). Steele is in on Marfo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Kevin-Marfo-Quinnipiac-Graduate-Transfer-145108032/Amp/

[xavierj]

Yes. At least according to 247( 2 days ago). Steele is in on Marfo.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Kevin-Marfo-Quinnipiac-Graduate-Transfer-145108032/Amp/

Burton is following Travis and Jonas on Twitter. I think Travis is the only head coach he is following.

[IM4X]

Burton is following Travis and Jonas on Twitter. I think Travis is the only head coach he is following.

Thanks for the update. Good news. We can use all of the solid options we can get.


He just finished his sophomore year and it’s not like he is playing for some mediocre mid major team that never gets to the dance. Do you know the story behind why he wants to transfer?

[GoMuskies]

Do you know the story behind why he wants to transfer?

I just think he and the head coach don't see eye to eye. For better and for worse, Travis Steele and Gregg Marshall are not at all similar animals.

[xudash]

Thanks for the update. Good news. We can use all of the solid options we can get.


He just finished his sophomore year and it’s not like he is playing for some mediocre mid major team that never gets to the dance. Do you know the story behind why he wants to transfer?

"Solid" obviously including this: "I have a high IQ and know how to play the game.”

[noteggs]

I just think he and the head coach don't see eye to eye. For better and for worse, Travis Steele and Gregg Marshall are not at all similar animals.

What’s your take on Burton?

[GoMuskies]

What’s your take on Burton?

He's really good, and I hope he ends up at Xavier. He was probably WSU's best underclassman.

Here's the list of schools I see interested from a quick Google search: Arizona, Illinois, NC State, Arkansas, Pitt and Marquette. So he's definitely got the right kind of interest.

[IM4X]

I just think he and the head coach don't see eye to eye. For better and for worse, Travis Steele and Gregg Marshall are not at all similar animals.

It just seems a bit strange. I mean he seems to be getting playing time and doing pretty well as far as points, especially being that he is only a sophomore. Usually when you think about a player not seeing eye to eye with your coach it means his role has been reduced significantly. I thought maybe he wanted to be a little closer to home, but then X wouldn’t exactly be near his home in North Carolina.

[IM4X]

"Solid" obviously including this: "I have a high IQ and know how to PASS WELL and SCORE WHEN I DRIVE.”

Fixed it for you.

[xavierj]

It just seems a bit strange. I mean he seems to be getting playing time and doing pretty well as far as points, especially being that he is only a sophomore. Usually when you think about a player not seeing eye to eye with your coach it means his role has been reduced significantly. I thought maybe he wanted to be a little closer to home, but then X wouldn’t exactly be near his home in North Carolina.

Wichita State already has 6 guys in the portal, at least three were starters. Something isn’t right there. It’s not that he wants to be closer to home.

[IM4X]

Wichita State already has 6 guys in the portal, at least three were starters. Something isn’t right there. It’s not that he wants to be closer to home.

Nope. Nothing to do with being close to home. Yes 6 guys are in the portal.

This explains a bit more of what is going on. Though, if we are to believe what their head coach suggests (the point guards want to play more and they are already playing over 20 minutes), then we may not end up being the perfect fit for him either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article241321281.html

[IM4X]

Additional info that might help explain the 6 Wichita St players that entered the portal form Stevenson, One of the ones in the portal.

Stevenson is one of five Shockers in the transfer portal. He told the Wichita Eagle the drop in his production and confidence was due to a deteriorating relationship with the coaching staff.
“When I had the confidence from Coach (Gregg Marshall) and the staff and I wasn’t looking over my shoulder after every mistake, I was the leader of the team and we were winning games and winning by big margins,” Stevenson told the newspaper. “But when the confidence from the staff went away and the one-mistake, come-out rule went into place, that’s when things started to go downhill. I think the former players know exactly what I’m talking about.”

[GoMuskies]

Stevenson is a POS. Don't pay any attention to him. Hope he ends up at Dayton!

[UCGRAD4X]

Stevenson is a POS. Don't pay any attention to him. Hope he ends up at Dayton!

Yep. Sounds like a load of sour grapes.

Call the wanbulance.

[paulxu]

Is he related to Lance?

[Lloyd Braun]

Kevin Marfo grad transfer target numero uno. Book em danno

[sirthought]

I think it's a tough call to know if we'd be a fit for Burton, because we have some hyped guards coming in. Part of me says he's already been through two years of battles and won games and had a pretty tough coach. He'd be better prepared than most newcomers. On the other hand, he probably wants more floor time after sitting out a year and might not really be the guy that dominates in the Big East. We need guys who can crush it.

His stats last season were 10 PTs., 3.4 Asts, 2.1 TO, 3.5 RB, 38% 3PT.
That's pretty well rounded. FT is only 65%.

[UCGRAD4X]

His stats last season were 10 PTs., 3.4 Asts, 2.1 TO, 3.5 RB, 38% 3PT.
That's pretty well rounded. FT is only 65%.

We REALLY need players who can hit 70 - 80 from the stripe, and that is the stat that you can most reasonably transfer from one team (system/league/competition/ etc.) to another.

[sirthought]

We REALLY need players who can hit 70 - 80 from the stripe, and that is the stat that you can most reasonably transfer from one team (system/league/competition/ etc.) to another.

I agree, but I also don't think that's the reason to ding him in this case.

I'm more curious about how all the defections are happening. It's easy to blame the coaching staff, but I bet there was also some bad chemistry happening on some level with the players. If this kid is averaging 10 pts and shooting 44% from the floor as a sophomore, then he's trending really solid for Wichita State.

[xavierj]

We REALLY need players who can hit 70 - 80 from the stripe, and that is the stat that you can most reasonably transfer from one team (system/league/competition/ etc.) to another.

He shot 71% from line as a freshman. Malcolm Bernard shot 59% in his one year at Xavier.

[IM4X]

He shot 71% from line as a freshman. Malcolm Bernard shot 59% in his one year at Xavier.

if Burton has the same kind of leadership ability, tenacity and will to win that Malcolm had, sign him up.

[UCGRAD4X]

if Burton has the same kind of leadership ability, tenacity and will to win that Malcolm had, sign him up.

...and can hit FFs at a 70+ clip...

[GIMMFD]

if Burton has the same kind of leadership ability, tenacity and will to win that Malcolm had, sign him up.

Brian Snow posted on the 247 WVU board saying WVU has interest, but one of the WVU beat writers (he's incredibly accurate with his news unlike some of the other mods on different team boards) said that it's a long shot, so may be worth making note of, think we have a good chance.

[IM4X]

Brian Snow posted on the 247 WVU board saying WVU has interest, but one of the WVU beat writers (he's incredibly accurate with his news unlike some of the other mods on different team boards) said that it's a long shot, so may be worth making note of, think we have a good chance.

I thought I remember reading in the recent piece about him transferring that he had like 50 schools reaching out to him. Even if the real number of legit high level schools he would consider is about 10, and WVU is out, it wouldn’t make it a sure thing.

I would imagine we are one of his top choices partly because of prior relationships and partly because, well we are X.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just think he and the head coach don't see eye to eye. For better and for worse, Travis Steele and Gregg Marshall are not at all similar animals.

You may have addressed this somewhere else but why all the transfers at Wichita? Don't they have like 7 guys transferring?

Edit: I see others talked about it but not sure anyone really knows or at least answered it in this thread.

[sirthought]

I would imagine we are one of his top choices partly because of prior relationships and partly because, well we are X.

What prior relationships? XU didn't recruit or offer him before.

[GIMMFD]

I thought I remember reading in the recent piece about him transferring that he had like 50 schools reaching out to him. Even if the real number of legit high level schools he would consider is about 10, and WVU is out, it wouldn’t make it a sure thing.

I would imagine we are one of his top choices partly because of prior relationships and partly because, well we are X.

Lol I really need to start finishing my thoughts good God, what I meant by we have a good chance is that it kind of falls in line with the theories of those guys not seeing eye to eye with Greg Marshall, because well.. Huggins is even more of a hard-ass, while by early indications it doesn't seem Coach Steele falls in that category, the prior relationships are a bonus, and program tradition is even better... also Tyrique Jones quoted Kevin Marfo's tweet and put the sword emojis for X, for what it's worth.

[Xuperman]

Marfo would be a perfect fit to address at least 2 frontcourt concerns....rebounding and experience. I think the 6'10 guy from Columbia would also, even though our Columbia transfers have not adjusted well to BE competition. BTW, does Hanson hold a scholarship?

[sirthought]

Marfo would be a perfect fit to address at least 2 frontcourt concerns....rebounding and experience. I think the 6'10 guy from Columbia would also, even though our Columbia transfers have not adjusted well to BE competition. BTW, does Hanson hold a scholarship?

LOL You just don't give up on Hanson. No, he's still a walk-on.

[Xuperman]

LOL You just don't give up on Hanson. No, he's still a walk-on.

Yea, I can't help myself! Mainly because so little is known about why he's here in the first place. Assuming he wants to play some BBall, transferring to X makes no sense from a basketball perspective. Why go from a school where you would see significant playing time, probably start, to come here and ride some serious pine? I mean the guy is obviously gifted physically....not your typical walk on in that regard. Probably in line for one of those "appreciation schollys" at some point. But you're right...winning the Madness Slam Dunk contest might be his pinnacle.

[Xuperman]

Some interesting X related articles on 247.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jordan-Bruner-Yale-Duke-Kansas-Baylor-Maryland-Xavier-Florida-State-145187546/

Evidently got a tap on the shoulder from Coach Steele.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Elias-King-Mississippi-State-basketball-transfer-four-star-145163066/

What's the chance he regrets not sticking with Coach Hayes and X? I'd like to see him suit up for us but thinking most here say "no thanks".

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jusaun-Holt-basketball-recruiting-Washington-Huskies-Xavier-Musketeers-Clemson-Tigers-Oklahoma-Sooners-145189747/

I'm not a VIP, so I couldn't read the whole article BUT noticed Xavier in the URL.....Dwon Odom's running mate at St. Francis makes him a real possibility for a nice 2021 get......built in chemistry is always a plus!!!

[IM4X]

Lol I really need to start finishing my thoughts good God, what I meant by we have a good chance is that it kind of falls in line with the theories of those guys not seeing eye to eye with Greg Marshall, because well.. Huggins is even more of a hard-ass, while by early indications it doesn't seem Coach Steele falls in that category, the prior relationships are a bonus, and program tradition is even better... also Tyrique Jones quoted Kevin Marfo's tweet and put the sword emojis for X, for what it's worth.

Was not aware of this info. I’d imagine it means he is very interested in X.

I only saw the one video of him playing (from before this past season). He looked solid, but not a freakish athletic as like Tyrique. While he does not seem to have nearly the hops or quickness of Jones, he does look like he could do a little bit of everything but shoot 3s. His 13 rebounds a game are impressive, but the level of competition Marfo played against was clearly not near the BE.

One has to wonder how man rebounds he could get per game against bigger and better players. Even if he came to X and averaged 8 boards with 8 points, it would be pretty good. Freemantle and Carter should be able to average at least one more rebound per game each next year and I expect big things from Miles. Heck, Ramsey may even end up being a solid contributor (if he can get healed and healthy).

[UCGRAD4X]

it's is interesting how many of these transfers are from Ivy League schools.

[xavierj]

it's is interesting how many of these transfers are from Ivy League schools.

The IVY league does not allow 5th year guys or redshirts so they have to transfer if they want to keep playing and have eligibility left.

[MADXSTER]

If I remember correctly, The Ivy League does not give out scholarships either.

[xavierj]

If I remember correctly, The Ivy League does not give out scholarships either.

No they do not although I am sure that work out a lot of academic and other scholarships to land the kids they do, plus financial aid. The other interesting thing with IVY league athletics I did not know, was that you don’t have to be the smartest kid to get accepted if you are an athlete. They obviously take more high performing students but also they take a percentage of kids with average grades and low ACT scores each year. Kind of like 60% A, 30% B and 10% C if you put them in groups.

[GIMMFD]

Some interesting X related articles on 247.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jordan-Bruner-Yale-Duke-Kansas-Baylor-Maryland-Xavier-Florida-State-145187546/

Evidently got a tap on the shoulder from Coach Steele.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Elias-King-Mississippi-State-basketball-transfer-four-star-145163066/

What's the chance he regrets not sticking with Coach Hayes and X? I'd like to see him suit up for us but thinking most here say "no thanks".

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jusaun-Holt-basketball-recruiting-Washington-Huskies-Xavier-Musketeers-Clemson-Tigers-Oklahoma-Sooners-145189747/

I'm not a VIP, so I couldn't read the whole article BUT noticed Xavier in the URL.....Dwon Odom's running mate at St. Francis makes him a real possibility for a nice 2021 get......built in chemistry is always a plus!!!

Jordan Bruner would be a nice get, I watched a couple of the Yale games earlier in the season, I think he could make a decent little impact at this level, they had another Forward who was more of a scoring threat, but Bruner would be someone I'd be excited in landing.

[sirthought]

Yea, I can't help myself! Mainly because so little is known about why he's here in the first place. Assuming he wants to play some BBall, transferring to X makes no sense from a basketball perspective. Why go from a school where you would see significant playing time, probably start, to come here and ride some serious pine? I mean the guy is obviously gifted physically....not your typical walk on in that regard. Probably in line for one of those "appreciation schollys" at some point. But you're right...winning the Madness Slam Dunk contest might be his pinnacle.

Do we know any of the stories about walk-ons? I mean, you hear all the time about someone committing to a school to be a preferred walk-on. So, the coaches must like the player pretty well, and they likely could play elsewhere.

But I'd say if we have bench players like James not getting a lot of minutes, there's probably a reason coach isn't thinking about sending in a player like Hanson. Both of those guys are pretty big skilled players, and they could have improved with game time, but that might not have helped the team win right now, which is a priority.

[noteggs]

What should be interesting is when the NCAA waives the sit out rule. Voting on this was supposed to happen in April. Not sure anyone knows if this vote and discussion will be delayed based off current situation.

[xuphan]

What should be interesting is when the NCAA waives the sit out rule. Voting on this was supposed to happen in April. Not sure anyone knows if this vote and discussion will be delayed based off current situation.

We really need to not rely on multiple transfers per year. One a year is fine but more than one shows that this team is not very stable in recruiting and developing the players that we have. I hope this is the last year where we have to look at multiple grad transfers.

[bleedXblue]

Its really tough to keep 13 kids committed and on a roster full time. I too would like to see more player development and recruiting stabilize. It's been way too inconsistent with Xavier the last 5 years. On the flip side, I don't mind an occasional transfer if the fit is right.

[IM4X]

I get the need for multiple transfers the past few seasons, even if some were not quite BE level. Unfortunately, they just needed bodies. Let’s hope we are done with having to just add bodies because a lack of enough good recruits landed.

I have to admit that I love the idea of adding transfers when there is enough to show that the player could be special- like Hankins or this guy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wthr.com/article/former-iu-guard-transfers-to-xavier%3famp

[xavierj]

I get the need for multiple transfers the past few seasons, even if some were not quite BE level. Unfortunately, they just needed bodies. Let’s hope we are done with having to just add bodies because a lack of enough good recruits landed.

I have to admit that I love the idea of adding transfers when there is enough to show that the player could be special- like Hankins or this guy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wthr.com/article/former-iu-guard-transfers-to-xavier%3famp

I think if we add guys it would be for guys that will be juniors with 2 years left to play, since Dontarius is the only guy slated to be a junior, and of course maybe 1 grad if both Paul and Naji leave to balance out the classes. Let’s say both Paul and Naji leave and if they don’t add anyone, Xavier would have 5 guys that will he freshman eligibility wise, two sophomores, 1 junior and 1 senior. That’s only 9 scholarship players and no one knows if Ramsey will be healthy. Going in to next year with only 8 healthy scholarship players would not be good. I think it would be important to add at least 1 junior and 1 senior. It would really help if either Paul or Naji returns. I think Paul is much more likely.

[xuphan]

I think if we add guys it would be for guys that will be juniors with 2 years left to play, since Dontarius is the only guy slated to be a junior, and of course maybe 1 grad if both Paul and Naji leave to balance out the classes. Let’s say both Paul and Naji leave and if they don’t add anyone, Xavier would have 5 guys that will he freshman eligibility wise, two sophomores, 1 junior and 1 senior. That’s only 9 scholarship players and no one knows if Ramsey will be healthy. Going in to next year with only 8 healthy scholarship players would not be good. I think it would be important to add at least 1 junior and 1 senior. It would really help if either Paul or Naji returns. I think Paul is much more likely.

Alonzo Gaffney is transferring from Ohio State. Big highly ranked forward out of Cleveland. I wonder if Steele will take a look at him.

[flatspat]

Alonzo Gaffney is transferring from Ohio State. Big highly ranked forward out of Cleveland. I wonder if Steele will take a look at him.


MOR
Any info on him since he is from your area

[GIMMFD]

We really need to not rely on multiple transfers per year. One a year is fine but more than one shows that this team is not very stable in recruiting and developing the players that we have. I hope this is the last year where we have to look at multiple grad transfers.

I think it's kind of going to be the norm moving forward with the Transfer Portal making things a lot easier for kids to gauge interest from other schools, I don't think a lot of recruits are gonna stay around and try to develop and "earn their minutes" so to speak. However, I do also think the last few years on the recruiting front have been a bit of an anomaly with all kinds of roster turnover and what not, so I do think it'll stabilize a bit moving forward. Ultimately, I agree with IM4X in which we just need bodies, that way we can run scrimmages and live game situations in practices, etc.

[Lloyd Braun]

Gaffney is not transferring. He’s leaving OSU but pursuing pro options.

[IM4X]

I think if we add guys it would be for guys that will be juniors with 2 years left to play, since Dontarius is the only guy slated to be a junior, and of course maybe 1 grad if both Paul and Naji leave to balance out the classes. Let’s say both Paul and Naji leave and if they don’t add anyone, Xavier would have 5 guys that will he freshman eligibility wise, two sophomores, 1 junior and 1 senior. That’s only 9 scholarship players and no one knows if Ramsey will be healthy. Going in to next year with only 8 healthy scholarship players would not be good. I think it would be important to add at least 1 junior and 1 senior. It would really help if either Paul or Naji returns. I think Paul is much more likely.

Having at least one transfer being a senior would be nice, especially if we aren’t sure that both Naji or Paul is coming back. I am all for having several seniors on the team for leadership and because they will likely leave it all out on the floor for their last season of eligibility.

[JTG]

With the current situation of players of all schools being at home, and not around their coaches, schools, or teammates, their may be massive movement. Especially if the sit out requirement is eliminated. As someone said, who wants to spend 2 years on the bench to earn their way onto the floor?
Also lots of "agents" in older players ears telling them " time to go" Hope not.

[Xuperman]

Having at least one transfer being a senior would be nice, especially if we aren’t sure that both Naji or Paul is coming back. I am all for having several seniors on the team for leadership and because they will likely leave it all out on the floor for their last season of eligibility.

Out of Steele's 4 senior transfers, only 1 comes close to the expected influence/effect you describe. IMO out of the 6 transfers that coach has brought in, he's wiffed on 5 barring a totally different Carter in the fall. Granted, Mack left the cupboard bare in 2018. Steele had to scramble to fill a roster AND obviously he and the staffs energy have been prioritized in landing those amazing freshman classes.

However, 2 years in should yield a more balanced appoach. This off season is a perfect opportunity to improve his grade in this area as the need for an impact transfer or 2 will be critical if Carter is the lone SR.

On a side note, Butler takes a hit.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/freshman-guard-khalif-battle-to-transfer-from-butler/ar-BB11wnID

[paulxu]

I think Tate from here in Spartanburg will fill in for the departing Battle with no problem.

[Lamont Sanford]

I want Marfo. He has Tyrique's approval.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Out of Steele's 4 senior transfers, only 1 comes close to the expected influence/effect you describe. IMO out of the 6 transfers that coach has brought in, he's wiffed on 5 barring a totally different Carter in the fall. Granted, Mack left the cupboard bare in 2018. Steele had to scramble to fill a roster AND obviously he and the staffs energy have been prioritized in landing those amazing freshman classes.

However, 2 years in should yield a more balanced appoach. This off season is a perfect opportunity to improve his grade in this area as the need for an impact transfer or 2 will be critical if Carter is the lone SR.

On a side note, Butler takes a hit.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/freshman-guard-khalif-battle-to-transfer-from-butler/ar-BB11wnID

I honestly dont think Carter is a wiff. Probably he would be moreso if he was a 1 year guy instead of 2.

We probably had higher expectations for him than we should have but I think he will be a solid contributor next year. A guy who got a season to get his feet wet in Xavier's system and in BE basketball and now gets to come back for another year.

[whopper]

I thought Welage and Castlin were OK. It seemed whenever a starter or 2 were out (IUPUI, Detroit Mercy, Oakland, St Johns) they would always up their game but the Core 4 has such ingrained patterns and minutes it was hard to break though. On Senior Day against ST johns(no Naj) in a must win they broke open a 2 pt game with 8 min to go with the last 19 points in a shockingly flawless effort(I won't erase the DVR). Moore could never get going and frankly we did not win our early "easy games" by enough to work him in.

[Masterofreality]

Does Chris Cantino have any eligibility left.

(There is zero reason for this post other than I wanted to bring Cantino's name up again) :-)

[Masterofreality]

I thought Welage and Castlin were OK. It seemed whenever a starter or 2 were out (IUPUI, Detroit Mercy, Oakland, St Johns) they would always up their game but the Core 4 has such ingrained patterns and minutes it was hard to break though. On Senior Day against ST johns(no Naj) in a must win they broke open a 2 pt game with 8 min to go with the last 19 points in a shockingly flawless effort(I won't erase the DVR). Moore could never get going and frankly we did not win our early "easy games" by enough to work him in.

Castlin absolutely saved the Butler game at home for us last year. And he did make a GLeague roster.
Another example of not using your guys most effectively?

[IM4X]

Out of Steele's 4 senior transfers, only 1 comes close to the expected influence/effect you describe. IMO out of the 6 transfers that coach has brought in, he's wiffed on 5 barring a totally different Carter in the fall. Granted, Mack left the cupboard bare in 2018. Steele had to scramble to fill a roster AND obviously he and the staffs energy have been prioritized in landing those amazing freshman classes.

However, 2 years in should yield a more balanced appoach. This off season is a perfect opportunity to improve his grade in this area as the need for an impact transfer or 2 will be critical if Carter is the lone SR.

On a side note, Butler takes a hit.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/freshman-guard-khalif-battle-to-transfer-from-butler/ar-BB11wnID

Seems like it is possible Battle might have been a little overrated coming out of HS.

I am not sure I personally would call the transfers we have had over the past two years complete whiffs. While there were some clear signs that some may have been liabilities at this level in some ways, most at least brought a skill set that was badly needed and pretty much all of the transfers did help the team in some way.

Welage for instance was certainly not a lock down defender, but he did help the team win some games with his three point shooting (as well as his inside game at times) and he got better as the season wore on. I can not call him a whiff for those reasons.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wa-bzLiZXjI

Carter has struggled in a number of areas and in no way should have been counted on to play as many minutes as he has his first of year. Unfortunately he was forced to play more due to Ramsey’s injury and Steele’s choice to redshirt Miles - Something up until a few weeks ago I was upset about. Now I am left having to walk back what I said and admit it was a brilliant “stoke of luck” move for Steele that he sat him this season.

Note: I do not in any way mean to suggest it is lucky that this awful virus situation has happened, just that X still wouldn’t be able play in the NCAA tournament this year (even if Miles made the team better).

The other two guys not named Hankins, probably did not quite live up to expectation (at least by most fan’s standard). Still those players both had some solid minutes (and big time games in Castlin’s case). Unfortunately, they both scored much less often than they were expected too. That was a problem and it really hurt the team. I am not sure if that blame is more on those two or on Travis (and to some extent us fans) for expecting them to be able to play at a higher level.

Who is the sixth transfer I am missing? I know we are not talking about Kanter. He was obviously a huge get.

We certainly could use a Hankins/Kanter type transfer. I don’t know if Morfo is quite at that level, but he seems worth the risk, since we will be adding Miles and possibly Ramsey too.

i do think Carter has a higher ceiling. I swear he came in knowing he’d have to play faster in the BE. Unfortunately, he appears to have played so nervously that he was moving TOO fast on offense. How else can one explain why most of his layups bang hard off of the backboard instead of falling softly into the basket. He also seems to be nervous when holding the ball in the paint - like he is waiting for bully kids at school to take his lunch. He needs to relax just a tad and become the bully. At least he has calmed down from outside, hitting more of his 3s towards the end of the season. I believe he will havr at least 25% more confidence next year and and be better because of it.

[xuphan]

Alex O’Connell from Duke is transferring. He is from Georgia so I wonder if there are any connections with Hayes.

[xavierj]

Alex O’Connell from Duke is transferring. He is from Georgia so I wonder if there are any connections with Hayes.

His dad and uncles all played at McNicholas here in Cincy and his uncle played for Xavier, baseball and basketball and I believe is in the X hall of fame. He visited here in high school. Obviously his family is very familiar with Xavier and the area. I am sure there will be some mutual interest.

[IM4X]

Some interesting X related articles on 247.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jordan-Bruner-Yale-Duke-Kansas-Baylor-Maryland-Xavier-Florida-State-145187546/

Evidently got a tap on the shoulder from Coach Steele.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Jusaun-Holt-basketball-recruiting-Washington-Huskies-Xavier-Musketeers-Clemson-Tigers-Oklahoma-Sooners-145189747/

I'm not a VIP, so I couldn't read the whole article BUT noticed Xavier in the URL.....Dwon Odom's running mate at St. Francis makes him a real possibility for a nice 2021 get......built in chemistry is always a plus!!!

Some good finds on your part of these promising possibilities.

Jordan Bruner from Yale would be nice to get on campus to see if he might be a good fit. It will be interesting to see if he or Marfo has the ability to elevate their game and play well at the next level like Hankins.

[Xuperman]

Who is the sixth transfer I am missing?

GULP....Myles Hanson. :happy:

[Xuperman]

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Here's an updated list and getting larger with each passing day!

I find this "Portal" thing fascinating....Samari Curtis ends up in Evansville (GTFO), Harden transferring again?, Taurean Thompson doing the same leaving SHU and UConn loses it's PG.

Stay tuned.

[xuphan]

Seems like Xavier is linked with most players in the transfer portal. Be interesting to see how all of this plays out if they can’t get any of them on campus due to the Coronavirus

[joe titan]

His dad and uncles all played at McNicholas here in Cincy and his uncle played for Xavier, baseball and basketball and I believe is in the X hall of fame. He visited here in high school. Obviously his family is very familiar with Xavier and the area. I am sure there will be some mutual interest.

XU had little chance to land Alex once Coach K came knocking. But let his story be a warning even to highly sought players --nothing like being recruited over when the next one/done class shows up. Alex would do well in many rosters.

[94GRAD]

GULP....Myles Hanson. :happy:

He has been considered a preferred walk-on and has only received a scholarship if one wasn't being used

[Masterofreality]

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Here's an updated list and getting larger with each passing day!

I find this "Portal" thing fascinating....Samari Curtis ends up in Evansville (GTFO), Harden transferring again?, Taurean Thompson doing the same leaving SHU and UConn loses it's PG.

Stay tuned.

Man. Samari seems like he's.....lost? XU to Clifton to Nebraska to Evansville. WTF??

[XUGRAD80]

Xavier has offered Morris Udeze from Wichita State. Listed at 6’8”-251 and a 3 star out of HS. Sophomore.

[Xville]

Xavier has offered Morris Udeze from Wichita State. Listed at 6’8”-251 and a 3 star out of HS. Sophomore.

What am I missing? Is this to replace james at practice? Guy has crap stats at a lower level conference

[xuphan]

I tend to agree. I kind of cringe seeing Xavier showing interest to nearly all of the current players in the transfer portal. 5th year seniors from low major conferences with below average stats are not going to help Xavier contend in the Big East. I really don’t see him being much more than a squad player if he can’t show decent numbers in a crap conference. Are we still rebuilding and these transfer are warm bodies to get through next year. If so, when do we start judging when Steele is meeting expectations at X? Another year of not being in the NCAA tournament will not fly with me as a fan.

[drudy23]

I tend to agree. I kind of cringe seeing Xavier showing interest to nearly all of the current players in the transfer portal.

Agreed. I've noticed this as well. It seems like we're going after anything.

What exactly is our recruiting profile, because it seems random.

[xavierj]

What am I missing? Is this to replace james at practice? Guy has crap stats at a lower level conference

Not sure what the interest might be and have no clue about the guy. He did have offers from Ohio State and Butler and visited both as well as offers from LSU, Illinois and Iowa State so he must have shown something at some point. Kevin Marfo averaged 2 points a game at George Washington and his first year at Quinnipiac averaged 5 and 7 and now has an offer from Louisville.

[IM4X]

Agreed. I've noticed this as well. It seems like we're going after anything.

What exactly is our recruiting profile, because it seems random.

I guess Steele’s approach this time around is to just cast a really wide net in order to catch as many fish as possible.

Then he can keep the biggest ones and toss the rest back in the water for UC and Dayton and Georgetown to fight over.

[XUGRAD80]

Right now most coaches are relying on tape and prior relationships with players....and not statistics....to determine who they are going to recruit. I suspect that one of the Xavier coaches was probably involved in recruiting him back in 2017 when he was coming out of HS and believes that he has talent and potential.

As far as casting a wide net.....according to Verbal Commits, Xavier has actually only offered 4 transfers, and Morris is the only “big”, the other 3 are all guards. There is a big difference between showing interest and actually offering a scholarship contract.

I will also point out that Steele really doesn’t have much choice about the need to recruit some transfers. The recruiting classes that the prior administration left him are anything but stellar. In fact it’s most likely that next years squad will only have 1 senior and no juniors that were actually recruits out of HS. So not only will next years team be lacking upperclassman with 3-4 years in the program, so will the next years squad. He has to try and bring some players in that can offer some leadership and experience at the college level. I hardly think that Steele can be blamed for the lack of TALENTED upperclassman with experience in the Xavier program and in the Big East.

[Xville]

Right now most coaches are relying on tape and prior relationships with players....and not statistics....to determine who they are going to recruit. I suspect that one of the Xavier coaches was probably involved in recruiting him back in 2017 when he was coming out of HS and believes that he has talent and potential.

As far as casting a wide net.....according to Verbal Commits, Xavier has actually only offered 4 transfers, and Morris is the only “big”, the other 3 are all guards. There is a big difference between showing interest and actually offering a scholarship contract.

I will also point out that Steele really doesn’t have much choice about the need to recruit some transfers. The recruiting classes that the prior administration left him are anything but stellar. In fact it’s most likely that next years squad will only have 1 senior and no juniors that were actually recruits out of HS. So not only will next years team be lacking upperclassman with 3-4 years in the program, so will the next years squad. He has to try and bring some players in that can offer some leadership and experience at the college level. I hardly think that Steele can be blamed for the lack of TALENTED upperclassman with experience in the Xavier program and in the Big East.

I agree with most of this and certainly agree that it isnt really steeles fault the roster is where it is at in terms of upper classmen. I just dont understand offering players with that kind of production against lower level competition other than being able to have a full practice. Honestly I'd rather run with the talented young guys and take the lumps rather than integrating them with low talent upper classmen who may even be detrimental to the young guys growth; teaching them bad habits etc. Just my opinion

[murray87]

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Here's an updated list and getting larger with each passing day!

I find this "Portal" thing fascinating....Samari Curtis ends up in Evansville (GTFO), Harden transferring again?, Taurean Thompson doing the same leaving SHU and UConn loses it's PG.

Stay tuned.

With no live sports going on, this helps fill the gap just a little bit! Interesting that Thompson is leaving the Hall after him being the guy that led to their modest sanctions from the gangsters at the NCAA.

[Muskie]

With no live sports going on, this helps fill the gap just a little bit! Interesting that Thompson is leaving the Hall after him being the guy that led to their modest sanctions from the gangsters at the NCAA.

Between this and the NFL free agency... it's helped.

[XUGRAD80]

Xville...look at the roster

Scruggs
Carter
Freemantle
Tandy
Ramsey....sophomore with no playing time
Miles.....red shirt
Hansen....walk-on
Odom....freshman
Welcher....freshman
Jones...freshman

3 are freshman, 2 are sophomores with no game experience, 1 is a walk-on. Only 4 players with any real playing experience. 10 total. That’s hardly even enough to have a good practice, especially if anyone gets hurt or sick. Really really thin in the front court too. They are going to take their lumps no matter what, but I don’t see any reason not to use at least 2 of the 3/4 open scholarships. If nothing else it gives them more depth. Most would be freshman are already signed for elsewhere, especially quality ones that X could get. But there are plenty of potentially good quality transfers out there.

[xavierj]

I agree with most of this and certainly agree that it isnt really steeles fault the roster is where it is at in terms of upper classmen. I just dont understand offering players with that kind of production against lower level competition other than being able to have a full practice. Honestly I'd rather run with the talented young guys and take the lumps rather than integrating them with low talent upper classmen who may even be detrimental to the young guys growth; teaching them bad habits etc. Just my opinion

Udeze hurt his shoulder and had to have surgery as a freshman. I have no idea what talent he has as I have never seen him play but for so many high majors to offer him out of high school and now Xavier, Butler, Seton Hall, Minnesota, Arizona state and South Carolina all interested in him, there must be something there with his talent level and athleticism. I will defer to college coaches on this one.

[GoMuskies]

Udeze is awful. Do not want.

[Muskie]

Xville...look at the roster

Scruggs
Carter
Freemantle
Tandy
Ramsey....sophomore with no playing time
Miles.....red shirt
Hansen....walk-on
Odom....freshman
Welcher....freshman
Jones...freshman

3 are freshman, 2 are sophomores with no game experience, 1 is a walk-on. Only 4 players with any real playing experience. 10 total. That’s hardly even enough to have a good practice, especially if anyone gets hurt or sick. Really really thin in the front court too. They are going to take their lumps no matter what, but I don’t see any reason not to use at least 2 of the 3/4 open scholarships. If nothing else it gives them more depth. Most would be freshman are already signed for elsewhere, especially quality ones that X could get. But there are plenty of potentially good quality transfers out there.

You forgot Myles Hanson (board favorite) in your analysis. Basketball Reference doesn't have him scoring this year. But I seem to remember him draining a 3?

[xavierj]

I would imagine Xavier will try to get involved with this guy. I am 100% sure Mack will try to get him as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/high-school/ohio-high-school/2020/03/25/carlik-jones-radford-star-aiken-hs-enters-transfer-portal/5077880002/

[xudash]

Steele and his staff aren’t just recruiting for 2021 or 2022 either. They’ve been extremely active on the transfer market which is moving like a Formula 1 Grand Prix race at the moment.

“The communication lines gotta be open with everyone on staff because the transfer market moves so quickly and there’s so many guys and we gotta evaluate them,” said Steele. “And it’s different because sometimes we’ll already have a relationship with a kid … but if not and you’re going in a little bit blind, I want to vet and try to do as much background research as I can and get a really good idea who this person is because it’s one thing watching film but we’re not just recruiting the player, we’re recruiting the person, too, and we gotta make sure it’s a good fit for our culture and what we’re building here at Xavier.”

The Musketeers are in the market for more shot-making on the perimeter and possibly another front-court player to help with depth and size around the basket, but ultimately, everything depends on the fit. - - Cincinnati.com

[GoMuskies]

I would imagine Xavier will try to get involved with this guy. I am 100% sure Mack will try to get him as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/high-school/ohio-high-school/2020/03/25/carlik-jones-radford-star-aiken-hs-enters-transfer-portal/5077880002/

Jones is on the front page of Louisvile's 24/7 site right now.

[xuphan]

Jones is on the front page of Louisvile's 24/7 site right now.

How many transfers do you see Xavier taking? Three?

[JTG]

I would imagine Xavier will try to get involved with this guy. I am 100% sure Mack will try to get him as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/high-school/ohio-high-school/2020/03/25/carlik-jones-radford-star-aiken-hs-enters-transfer-portal/5077880002/

The site is subscription only, who is it & details.

[xavierj]

The site is subscription only, who is it & details.

I don't have a subscription but I can see it. Basically that he was a really productive player at Radford. 20 ppg 5 rebounds and 5 assists. Big South player of the year this year, Big South freshman of the year a couple of years ago, led the to the NCAA tourney as a redshirt freshman and is a Cincinnati kid. He is strictly a point guard so not sure Xavier wants to rock that boat with Kyky and Odom. Said growing up he dreamed of playing at UC or Xavier.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The site is subscription only, who is it & details.

I dont have a subscription and I could read the whole article.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I don't have a subscription but I can see it. Basically that he was a really productive player at Radford. 20 ppg 5 rebounds and 5 assists. Big South player of the year this year, Big South freshman of the year a couple of years ago, led the to the NCAA tourney as a redshirt freshman and is a Cincinnati kid. He is strictly a point guard so not sure Xavier wants to rock that boat with Kyky and Odom. Said growing up he dreamed of playing at UC or Xavier.

If he wants to come Xavier should take him. Does anyone really see KyKy playing a solid PG role next year? He'd have to make a humongous jump to be an effective PG.

The transfer is one of the top sought after on the market from what I understand.

[paulxu]

Since I don't follow this area a lot, have they relaxed the sit out one year for transfers rule?

[XUGRAD80]

You forgot Myles Hanson (board favorite) in your analysis. Basketball Reference doesn't have him scoring this year. But I seem to remember him draining a 3?

Look again...I have him in there just above the freshman. I have him listed as a walk-on because basically that’s what he is.

[XUGRAD80]

Since I don't follow this area a lot, have they relaxed the sit out one year for transfers rule?

Grad transfers are eligible right away. As far as the sit out year...seems to vary from one player to another, but technically they are still supposed to sit a year....as of now. There is a lot of support to allow all players to transfer one time without having to sit out.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Grad transfers are eligible right away. As far as the sit out year...seems to vary from one player to another, but technically they are still supposed to sit a year....as of now. There is a lot of support to allow all players to transfer one time without having to sit out.

Yeah and the original goal of the proposal was to be heard in April and go into effect next year. Not sure if that would be delayed due to COVID-19.

[Muskie]

Look again...I have him in there just above the freshman. I have him listed as a walk-on because basically that’s what he is.

Sorry. Not sure how I missed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[XUGRAD80]

Sorry. Not sure how I missed it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Well he IS easy to overlook....:)

[xuphan]

Are we expecting these transfer(s) to be key players next season, role players or practice bodies?

[xavierj]

Are we expecting these transfer(s) to be key players next season, role players or practice bodies?

I think they are looking for guys to make an impact. They are going after some guys that a lot of big time programs want as well. The guy from Bowling Green people say he will be the best player on most power 5 teams. Now if that's the case not sure why he doesn't just test the NBA waters since he is 22. I doubt Xavier has much of shot with him though. He was on a POD and mentioned Louisville, Missouri, Georgia and Arkansas coaches that have been really hands on with him so far, didn't mention X at that point. When asked if any coaches recruiting him now had when he was in high school, since he didn't have many offers, and he said coach Steele, from Xzavier... talked to him a little but never offered but no one else.

[IM4X]

I would imagine Xavier will try to get involved with this guy. I am 100% sure Mack will try to get him as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/high-school/ohio-high-school/2020/03/25/carlik-jones-radford-star-aiken-hs-enters-transfer-portal/5077880002/

Player of the year for his conference.

Averaged 20+ points a game.

He is from Cincinnati.

He dreamed of playing for X.

X marks the spot. Reel him in Travis.

[xuphan]

Player of the year for his conference.

Averaged 20+ points a game.

He is from Cincinnati.

He dreamed of playing for X.

X marks the spot. Reel him in Travis.

X hasn’t made contact with him yet. Hope that changes. Best guard in the transfer portal in my opinion.

[IM4X]

As far as casting a wide net.....according to Verbal Commits, Xavier has actually only offered 4 transfers, and Morris is the only “big”, the other 3 are all guards. There is a big difference between showing interest and actually offering a scholarship contract.

I will also point out that Steele really doesn’t have much choice about the need to recruit some transfers. The recruiting classes that the prior administration left him are anything but stellar. In fact it’s most likely that next years squad will only have 1 senior and no juniors that were actually recruits out of HS. So not only will next years team be lacking upperclassman with 3-4 years in the program, so will the next years squad. He has to try and bring some players in that can offer some leadership and experience at the college level. I hardly think that Steele can be blamed for the lack of TALENTED upperclassman with experience in the Xavier program and in the Big East.


I wasn’t criticizing him when I suggested Steele was casting a wide net. I wasn’t even suggesting that meant he was offering everyone when he reached out to them.

I am pretty sure he has reached out to more than 1 big, since articles about various transferring forwards/centers mention Xavier as one of the schools that has reached out.

Finally, I don’t know why this always seems to come back to “Steele shouldn’t be blamed” with you. Who is blaming him here? I know I’m not. I am open to bringing in multiple transfers as long as they are legit BE level talents.

[XUGRAD80]

I wasn’t criticizing him when I suggested Steele was casting a wide net. I wasn’t even suggesting that meant he was offering everyone when he reached out to them.

I am pretty sure he has reached out to more than 1 big, since articles about various transferring forwards/centers mention Xavier as one of the schools that has reached out.

Finally, I don’t know why this always seems to come back to “Steele shouldn’t be blamed” with you. Who is blaming him here? I know I’m not. I am open to bringing in multiple transfers as long as they are legit BE level talents.

Sorry if you took it that way, it certainly wasn’t meant as a direct response to you. If I quote someone then it’s a direct response.

[X-band '01]

I think they are looking for guys to make an impact. They are going after some guys that a lot of big time programs want as well. The guy from Bowling Green people say he will be the best player on most power 5 teams. Now if that's the case not sure why he doesn't just test the NBA waters since he is 22. I doubt Xavier has much of shot with him though. He was on a POD and mentioned Louisville, Missouri, Georgia and Arkansas coaches that have been really hands on with him so far, didn't mention X at that point. When asked if any coaches recruiting him now had when he was in high school, since he didn't have many offers, and he said coach Steele, from Xzavier... talked to him a little but never offered but no one else.

Justin Turner is the BG player you're thinking of.

[GIMMFD]

Player of the year for his conference.

Averaged 20+ points a game.

He is from Cincinnati.

He dreamed of playing for X.

X marks the spot. Reel him in Travis.

Yeah, I'm with you on that, I don't think it matters with what we're bringing back guard wise, if you have someone that has some talent like that and is interested, I think you gotta take him.

[SkyWalker]

Xville...look at the roster

Scruggs
Carter
Freemantle
Tandy
Ramsey....sophomore with no playing time
Miles.....red shirt
Hansen....walk-on
Odom....freshman
Welcher....freshman
Jones...freshman

3 are freshman, 2 are sophomores with no game experience, 1 is a walk-on. Only 4 players with any real playing experience. 10 total. That’s hardly even enough to have a good practice, especially if anyone gets hurt or sick. Really really thin in the front court too. They are going to take their lumps no matter what, but I don’t see any reason not to use at least 2 of the 3/4 open scholarships. If nothing else it gives them more depth. Most would be freshman are already signed for elsewhere, especially quality ones that X could get. But there are plenty of potentially good quality transfers out there.

I think it's more than likely that Scruggs doesn't come back. Does anyone know if a grad transfer can transfer twice? If so, we could lose Carter too and that leaves very little experience on the roster.

[xavierj]

I think it's more than likely that Scruggs doesn't come back. Does anyone know if a grad transfer can transfer twice? If so, we could lose Carter too and that leaves very little experience on the roster.

Carter will 100% be back. I think Scruggs is 99% back FWIW. I think this will be Scruggs team and I think he and Steele want that. I think you will see a starting lineup of Tandy, Scruggs, Free, Carter and either Colby Jones or a possible transfer in the starting lineup. With Odom, Miles, Wilcher, Ramsey (if healthy) and another transfer coming off the bench. If they get a transfer who can start, then Colby Jones will be coming off the bench. An 8 or 9 man rotation would work fine and the young guys will get a lot of time to learn on the job. That lineup can be pretty competitive especially if Scruggs plays like he is capable and Free and Tandy make the big sophomore jump.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I think it's more than likely that Scruggs doesn't come back. Does anyone know if a grad transfer can transfer twice? If so, we could lose Carter too and that leaves very little experience on the roster.

I think Scruggs is coming back. Why would Carter leave? Do you mean if Scruggs left too and he felt the team couldnt make the tourney? Does anyone think Carter inspired enough for a sure fire tourney team from a major conference to offer him a spot? I think Carter could be a key piece for us next year given our makeup but would another for sure tourney team next year feel that way?

[SkyWalker]

I think Scruggs is coming back. Why would Carter leave? Do you mean if Scruggs left too and he felt the team couldnt make the tourney? Does anyone think Carter inspired enough for a sure fire tourney team from a major conference to offer him a spot? I think Carter could be a key piece for us next year given our makeup but would another for sure tourney team next year feel that way?

Well Carter transferred once apparently to play in the tournament, My question is not suggesting that he would transfer, but would NCAA rules allow. He already has a degree from the "Harvard on the Hocking".

[xuphan]

Xavier also showing interest in the following transfers

Guard: Tyrese Martin from Rhode Island. Averaged around 10 points per game.

Guard: Anthony Roberts from Kent State. Averaged around 10 points per game.

[paulxu]

Every time I hear of someone going into the "transfer portal," I keep thinking it's some sort of sci-fi deal.

Maybe they come out the other side in an alternative universe, and magically play better.

[noteggs]

Every time I hear of someone going into the "transfer portal," I keep thinking it's some sort of sci-fi deal.

Maybe they come out the other side in an alternative universe, and magically play better.

I think of a shitter, of course that’s probably just me.

[xuphan]

Xavier also interested in Cal Baptist guard Ferron Flavors Jr. averaged around 10 per game.

[beatuc]

Why is Ramsey considered a sophomore? Did he play some this year and I missed it?

[xuphan]

Xavier also interested in Cal Baptist guard Ferron Flavors Jr. averaged around 10 per game.

Xavier also interested in Wofford Forward Chevez Goodwin. Averaged 10 points 7 rebounds a game.

[nuts4xu]

Why is Ramsey considered a sophomore? Did he play some this year and I missed it?

He played like 3 minutes in the Lipscomb game. They will file for a medical redshirt to hopefully get his year of eligibility back.

[Muskie]

He played like 3 minutes in the Lipscomb game. They will file for a medical redshirt to hopefully get his year of eligibility back.

At the risk of asking a totally relevant question and having my fandom, reading comprehension, and loyatly to the program questioned: Is there any update on his redshirt status? Maybe that question has been answered 100 or more times, but I don't seem to recall reading it here.

[Lloyd Braun]

At the risk of asking a totally relevant question and having my fandon, reading comprehension, and loyatly to the program questioned: Is there any update on his redshirt status? Maybe that question has been answered 100 or more times, but I don't seem to recall reading it here.

This (https://twitter.com/slrussell/status/1240003048912625666?s=21) is the last info I have seen

[Muskie]

This (https://twitter.com/slrussell/status/1240003048912625666?s=21) is the last info I have seen

Thank you. That was just what I was looking for. I must have missed it on twitter.

[bobbiemcgee]

Trying to recruit in this environment has to be a nightmare.

[nuts4xu]

At the risk of asking a totally relevant question and having my fandon, reading comprehension, and loyatly to the program questioned: Is there any update on his redshirt status? Maybe that question has been answered 100 or more times, but I don't seem to recall reading it here.

What are you some kind of fu**ing moron? Who the hell do you think you are asking such fu**tard questions? Haven't you memorized every word of every post ever posted on any message board? Haven't you taken copious notes listening to scouting site "legends", and their podcasts? You gotta be a huge dips**t to even want to know such common knowledge. You will be awarded zero points, and we are now all dumber for having read your question.

[nuts4xu]

Is there any update on his redshirt status?

To be more succinct....

no.

[MADXSTER]

What are you some kind of fu**ing moron? Who the hell do you think you are asking such fu**tard questions? Haven't you memorized every word of every post ever posted on any message board? Haven't you taken copious notes listening to scouting site "legends", and their podcasts? You gotta be a huge dips**t to even want to know such common knowledge. You will be awarded zero points, and we are now all dumber for having read your question.

And Nuts is only in day 8 of the 14 day quarantine. Yikes!!

[Muskie]

And Nuts is only in day 8 of the 14 day quarantine. Yikes!!

Ha... his post to me was all in good fun. Nuts is a great American.

[UCGRAD4X]

My guess is that NCAA will be more lenient this year, being what has transpired.

Then again, we are talking about the NCAA.

[xuphan]

Xavier makes final 6 list for BG transfer Justin Turner

[xuphan]

Xavier makes final 6 list for BG transfer Justin Turner

Xavier also made the final 6 for Cal Baptist transfer Ferron Flavors Jr.

Xavier interested one Hawaii transfer Drew Buggs. Averaged 9 points a game.

[xavierj]

Xavier also made the final 6 for Cal Baptist transfer Ferron Flavors Jr.

Xavier interested one Hawaii transfer Drew Buggs. Averaged 9 points a game.

Obviously different competition but Flavors shot almost 44% from 3 last year. Turner is a career 37% three shooter, 37% for three straight years. Looks like Buggs shot 26% each of last two years. That’s a trend that I don’t think Xavier needs.

[xavierj]

I would say Flavors will probably pick Xavier. Just a hunch. He is now following Steele and Snow. Grad transfer who has two years left of eligibility.

[xudash]

Cal Baptist?

[xavierj]

Cal Baptist?

That's where he is now. I guess he started out at Fairfield and is from Washington. Sounds like Oklahoma State is after him pretty hard as is Wake. Competition obviously wasn't great but he did score 13 against Purdue as a freshman and then 14 against Texas and 11 against Cal this year.

[drudy23]

Obviously different competition but Flavors shot almost 44% from 3 last year. Turner is a career 37% three shooter, 37% for three straight years. Looks like Buggs shot 26% each of last two years. That’s a trend that I don’t think Xavier needs.

Brad Redford would have shot 65% in college if he was open. The problem was, he couldn't get open all that often.

That's the risk with some of these lower level players. You can't fall in love with a 44% 3-point stat as they were likely getting these shots against DRASTICALLY less athletic opponents.

And what the hell is Cal Baptist? Sounds like a rec league.

[xuphan]

This was posted by Jeff Goodman

He is the 20th ranked immediately eligible transfer in the country according to this site.

20) Ferron Flavors Jr., 6-3, 190, SG, RS Jr., Cal Baptist
Stats: 13.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg
Scout’s take: “Elite shooter with deep range, and a good one-dribble pull-up. He actually shoots a higher percentage when the shot is contested. Needs to think the game better, and give more of an effort on defense but can really help a team offensively.”
Schools: Xavier, Oklahoma State, Washington State, USC, BYU, Pacific, Utah State, Arkansas, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Detroit, Portland State, Loyola Chicago, Wichita State, Wake Forest, Missouri

[xavierj]

Looks like he can play a little. Led Fairfield to the MAAC championship game a couple of years ago.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWEvDH6Dk4Y

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Brad Redford would have shot 65% in college if he was open. The problem was, he couldn't get open all that often.

That's the risk with some of these lower level players. You can't fall in love with a 44% 3-point stat as they were likely getting these shots against DRASTICALLY less athletic opponents.

And what the hell is Cal Baptist? Sounds like a rec league.

This cannot end well.

[drudy23]

This cannot end well.

I'm guessing these coaches know more than me (I'm positive of that), I'm just playing the percentages here. These type of players rarely have a huge impact when the leap is this big.

Yes, Hankins was D2, but he was the POY in D2. The best D2 programs are likely better than most of the lowest level D1 programs in the MAAC.

But like I said, I'm just playing the percentages here. This doesn't give me good feelings knowing the lack of depth coming back next year.

If it was a situation where it was a reinforcement for a team with a solid foundation, I'd feel better about it.

It may just be the corona phase, but I'm kind of worried about the next couple years of Xavier basketball. I just hope the wheels start to turn like they did for Matta, Miller, and Mack.

[xudash]

“needs to think the game better“.

Cal Baptist. Fairfield.

I am done, but then what do I know.

[UCGRAD4X]

“needs to think the game better“.

Cal Baptist. Fairfield.

I am done, but then what do I know.

..and give more of an effort on defense...

no thanks

[xavierj]

“needs to think the game better“.

Cal Baptist. Fairfield.

I am done, but then what do I know.

I had never heard of Cal Baptist either but looks like they won 21 games and finished 2nd in the WAC. For comparison of former transfers, the strength of schedule he faced at Fairfield and Cal Baptist was much stronger than Malcolm Bernard at Charleston Southern & Florida A&M and comparable to what Kyle Castlin faced at Columbia, but he has been a much more consistent and better three point shooter than either of those guys were prior to Xavier.

[X-band '01]

Cal Baptist is a transitional team that won't be eligible for the NCAA Tournament until 2022-23.

[xuphan]

I just don’t see him being more than a 5-10 minute bench player here against Big East competition. If he is going to play a significant role on this team then this team is in trouble next year.

[xavierj]

I just don’t see him being more than a 5-10 minute bench player here against Big East competition. If he is going to play a significant role on this team then this team is in trouble next year.

And you know that how? He has played against Purdue, Texas and Cal and did just fine. Scoring in double figures. Also had a dominate performance in the MAAC tourney a couple of years ago. He obviously has some skills and big programs want him.

[xuphan]

And you know that how? He has played against Purdue, Texas and Cal and did just fine. Scoring in double figures. Also had a dominate performance in the MAAC tourney a couple of years ago. He obviously has some skills and big programs want him.

Big program such as Washington State, Detroit, OK state and wake forest? I didn’t say that I didn’t want him but his defense and basketball IQ are weaknesses according to a scout that has watched him play. I just don’t think he should be a significant player on this team if we have dreams of getting back to the NCAA tournament next year.

[xavierj]

Big program such as Washington State, Detroit, OK state and wake forest? I didn’t say that I didn’t want him but his defense and basketball IQ are weaknesses according to a scout that has watched him play. I just don’t think he should be a significant player on this team if we have dreams of getting back to the NCAA tournament next year.

No one said you have to rely on him to be a star. He is a good shooter which this team needs. I wouldn’t expect him to start but it would be great to have a guy to give 15 to 20 minutes and you have to guard him. The starters next year will be Scruggs, Tandy, free, carter and probably one of the freshman or a transfer who can play the 3/4. This guy would sub for Tandy and Scruggs. You can’t count on freshman to be ready, especially early. As for Oklahoma State they have the number 1 recruiting class in the Big 12 and the number 1 point guard in the country coming in. They could be a top 15 team next year.

[xudash]

No one said you have to rely on him to be a star. He is a good shooter which this team needs. I wouldn’t expect him to start but it would be great to have a guy to give 15 to 20 minutes and you have to guard him. The starters next year will be Scruggs, Tandy, free, carter and probably one of the freshman or a transfer who can play the 3/4. This guy would sub for Tandy and Scruggs. You can’t count on freshman to be ready, especially early. As for Oklahoma State they have the number 1 recruiting class in the Big 12 and the number 1 point guard in the country coming in. They could be a top 15 team next year.

You make great points.

However, for some reason, this “basketball IQ“ thing is in the forefront of my thoughts on all this.

[xavierj]

You make great points.

However, for some reason, this “basketball IQ“ thing is in the forefront of my thoughts on all this.

I get that. But if your role is to get open and knock down shots, that should be too hard. Here is another video. He looks pretty smooth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV-cmFiducs&feature=youtu.be

[xuphan]

Xavier has reached out to NKU grad transfer Jalen Tate. Averaged around 14 points a game.

[JTG]

I don't care if the guy can't guard a lamp post, if he's 40% from 3 I'm all in. We've seen 2 years of good D and miserable shooting. Just one decent 3 pt shooter and we'd have won 22-23 games. Sign him up.

[Xuperman]

The speed of this situation baffles me. Some names tossed around early in this thread are some proven talent and several of these guys with X connections are still available....but Steele impatiently grabs Griffin and Johnson? I mean, what's the hurry? These open scholarships should be valued a lot more, especially in year 3 and not having to desperately patch together a roster. Besides this pandemic has slowed everything down.

Well what's done is done. I guess neither guy will threaten the expected minutes for our young recruits triggering another transfer, that say a Burton could, so that's a plus. unfortunately unless something out of the ordinary happens, this is a 3rd group of role players. Hopefully by design Coach chose these 2 for their "tutoring" potential for our Young Gun Seven.

This just in....Marfo heading to Texas A&M.

[xavierj]

The speed of this situation baffles me. Some names tossed around early in this thread are some proven talent and several of these guys with X connections are still available....but Steele impatiently grabs Griffin and Johnson? I mean, what's the hurry? These open scholarships should be valued a lot more, especially in year 3 and not having to desperately patch together a roster. Besides this pandemic has slowed everything down.

Well what's done is done. I guess neither guy will threaten the expected minutes for our young recruits triggering another transfer, that say a Burton could, so that's a plus. unfortunately unless something out of the ordinary happens, this is a 3rd group of role players. Hopefully by design Coach chose these 2 for their "tutoring" potential for our Young Gun Seven.

This just in....Marfo heading to Texas A&M.

I don't think Xavier recruited Marfo. He wanted to go somewhere he could start and that wasn't going to be at Xavier. Plus they don't want a guy clogging the lane and standing near the basket at all times. We did that and it was painful to watch. I think They would still take Turner and they will take a traditional transfer, someone like Burton and hope the rule gets changed where he would slide into the junior class, which is empty right now. So expect at least one more traditional transfer, one who could start and if they could get Turner or someone with his talent level, two more. By design the two guys they took are guys who can come off the bench to spell minutes. Most of the more highly talented transfer want promises to be a starter. I think Travis is fine right now with starting Tandy, Scruggs, Carter and Free and a new comer, be it a transfer or one of the freshman coming in.

[Xville]

The speed of this situation baffles me. Some names tossed around early in this thread are some proven talent and several of these guys with X connections are still available....but Steele impatiently grabs Griffin and Johnson? I mean, what's the hurry? These open scholarships should be valued a lot more, especially in year 3 and not having to desperately patch together a roster. Besides this pandemic has slowed everything down.

Well what's done is done. I guess neither guy will threaten the expected minutes for our young recruits triggering another transfer, that say a Burton could, so that's a plus. unfortunately unless something out of the ordinary happens, this is a 3rd group of role players. Hopefully by design Coach chose these 2 for their "tutoring" potential for our Young Gun Seven.

This just in....Marfo heading to Texas A&M.

Just a hypothetical guess but I think Steele grabbed the two he did because the others arent interested enough in x. Class of 2021 is frightening to me...everyone just assume that because x is in on some of these guys, that they will grab a few. Reality is that the team was looking at a 2nd consecutive trip to the nit....recruits obviously see that.

[AviatorX]

Outside of 2 or 3 Reid Travis types in a given year, you aren't going to bring in huge impact grad transfers. Or, maybe it's more accurate to say you aren't going to be any good relying on grad transfers for huge impact.

Pretty clear the staff has no interest in adding someone who can only play the point (makes sense). Not sure how anyone can have an issue using an otherwise unfilled scholarship on a 6'3 guy with Johnson's shooting numbers. The big is whatever, they need an insurance policy 4th or 5th big - that's a crap shoot anyway. I don't have a ton of interest in playing a statue who can't guard in Xavier's system at the 5 anyway (Marfo).

What grad transfer would be ahead of Johnson on Steele's list? I think a guy like that was the biggest need to be addressed via grad transfer.

[xavierj]

Just a hypothetical guess but I think Steele grabbed the two he did because the others arent interested enough in x. Class of 2021 is frightening to me...everyone just assume that because x is in on some of these guys, that they will grab a few. Reality is that the team was looking at a 2nd consecutive trip to the nit....recruits obviously see that.

NM

[xavierj]

Just a hypothetical guess but I think Steele grabbed the two he did because the others aren't interested enough in x. Class of 2021 is frightening to me...everyone just assume that because x is in on some of these guys, that they will grab a few. Reality is that the team was looking at a 2nd consecutive trip to the nit....recruits obviously see that.

To be honest most recruits have no idea who was and who wasn't going to make the tournament and probably most have no idea Xavier didn't make it last year. I don't think they follow all that closely to be honest. They are much more concerned with a lot of things not so much basketball related, they are high school kids. I mean DePaul who hasn't been good in like forever had two future NBA guys on their roster this past season. I think kids are more concerned about playing time and playing in big time games where they can showcase talent to try to get paid.

Xavier will have a very good class and this whole shutdown thing may prove positive. Xavier was in early on a lot of big time talent and built relationships, had a lot of kids on campus. Now kids can't get out to see new programs. In the past Xavier was in on big time talent early and lost them late when other programs jumped in. Not sure that will be able to happen this time around.

[XU 87]

The speed of this situation baffles me. Some names tossed around early in this thread are some proven talent and several of these guys with X connections are still available....but Steele impatiently grabs Griffin and Johnson? I mean, what's the hurry? These open scholarships should be valued a lot more, especially in year 3 and not having to desperately patch together a roster. Besides this pandemic has slowed everything down.



Unless they're assured of getting someone who is better, I suspect they have to take the transfers they are recruiting that are ready to commit, or those guys will simply go elsewhere. The guard also fills a huge need- he can shoot threes. The center also fills a need- there is only one returning 5 with any experience, and it appears he can also shoot from the three.

[noteggs]

I mean DePaul who hasn't been good in like forever had two future NBA guys on their roster this past season.

Not to mention they’re currently ranking 4th Nationally according to 247. Of course that will change, but they do have the 55th and 67th players already committed to the 2021 class.

[IM4X]

Not sure what the concern is here. I get it is a big jump to the BE for these guys, but they both have some nice stats and look really good on film.

These two transfers look like tremendous pick ups to me.

We badly need better shooting from outside. (Both Johnson and Griffin can shoot from 3) — Check

We badly need more senior leadership on and off the court. (Johnson) — Check

We badly need another big who can score and rebound (Griffin) — Check.


GRIFFIN

This past season at Mercy, Griffin averaged 19.6 points and 14.5 boards per game. In the 2018-19 season, he averaged 20.3 points and 11.5 rebounds.


JOHNSON

A quick guard who averages 13.5 points per game and shots over 40% from three.

"First, I consider myself a great defender and I always put defense first," said Johnson. "People label me as a great shooter but I feel like I do more than shoot. I can get to the rim, I can create for others, but shooting is one of my specialties, it's just not my only specialty."

It also mentions he will bring leadership on and off the court.

[GoMuskies]

On the topic of grad transfers, I knew CJ Anderson was kind of a jackass, but on Twitter the last few days....yikes.

[Xville]

On the topic of grad transfers, I knew CJ Anderson was kind of a jackass, but on Twitter the last few days....yikes.

Definitely a guy you want on your team, but wow

[Final4]

On the topic of grad transfers, I knew CJ Anderson was kind of a jackass, but on Twitter the last few days....yikes.

I never really understood why all the "love" for CJ on this board. Should have been tossed out of school to begin with and never appeared to be much of an "ambassador" for X once he got out.

[Juice]

I never really understood why all the "love" for CJ on this board. Should have been tossed out of school to begin with and never appeared to be much of an "ambassador" for X once he got out.

On Twitter he has been touting everything he has done for the school and asking those who disagree with him what they’ve done.

[XUGRAD80]

Just one more reason to stay off of Twitter and not be a Twat. :lmao:


However, according to his twitter feed and Zagsblog, Pitt transfer Trey McGowens has Xavier in his top 8. Would be a junior with 2 years of eligibility left. I believe he would have to sit a year. Did average 11+ points, 3+ rebounds and assists as both a freshman and sophomore at Pitt.

[Xville]

On Twitter he has been touting everything he has done for the school and asking those who disagree with him what they’ve done.

Just another guy who believes he is way more important than he actually is. Would love to hear all the things he has done for the school. Yeah he was on a team that went to an elite eight...great.

[XUGRAD80]

Udeze has Xavier in his final 5 schools...along with Minnesota, Arizona St., Seton Hall, and Butler

[xavierj]

Udeze has Xavier in his final 5 schools...along with Minnesota, Arizona St., Seton Hall, and Butler

I think Jamarius Burton is the guy Xavier want's. I think Xavier has a good chance to get him. His top 5 as of today is Xavier, Ohio State, Marquette, Seton Hall and Texas Tech.

https://twitter.com/Moneymaker441/status/1245817146996916225

[XUGRAD80]

I think Jamarius Burton is the guy Xavier want's. I think Xavier has a good chance to get him. His top 5 as of today is Xavier, Ohio State, Marquette, Seton Hall and Texas Tech.

https://twitter.com/Moneymaker441/status/1245817146996916225

You may be correct, but they are hardly interchangeable players. I’d guess that X would take either or both.

[Lloyd Braun]

I’m convinced that X has expressed interest in 99% of transfers and 95% have X in their top 8. Same goes for Seton Hall.

[GIMMFD]

I’m convinced that X has expressed interest in 99% of transfers and 95% have X in their top 8. Same goes for Seton Hall.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take right??

[Masterofreality]

'Alex O'Connell has committed to...Creighton.
Bryce Aiken will commit to...Seton Hall.

Big time gets. Meanwhile, we are taking Gardner Webb guys. Yeeesh.

[GoMuskies]

We're still on Burton's list, no?

[XU 87]

'Alex O'Connell has committed to...Creighton.
Bryce Aiken will commit to...Seton Hall.

Big time gets. Meanwhile, we are taking Gardner Webb guys. Yeeesh.

X's 2020 recruiting class is ranked 18th. Seton Hall is at 76 and Creighton is at 96.

I'll take our incoming players, including transfers, over theirs.

[xavierj]

'Alex O'Connell has committed to...Creighton.
Bryce Aiken will commit to...Seton Hall.

Big time gets. Meanwhile, we are taking Gardner Webb guys. Yeeesh.

Seton Hall needs starters, Xavier was looking for depth. Why recruit a Bryce Aiken's? To piss off Kyky? I think you understand that, right?

[Masterofreality]

Seton Hall needs starters, Xavier was looking for depth. Why recruit a Bryce Aiken's? To piss off Kyky? I think you understand that, right?

LOL. On Post 98 of this thread you literally said this:

"I think they are looking for guys to make an impact. They are going after some guys that a lot of big time programs want as well."
Aiken averaged 22.2 points per game. I kinda think that makes an impact. And "piss of KyKy"? Hmmm. Did Steele worry about "pissing off" Tyrique Jones when he went out and got Zach Hankins? Maybe he did because for 20 games last year Steele couldn't figure out how to use them effectively.
Was he worried about "pissing off KyKy" when he went out and got Nate Johnson? We all knew Paul was coming back.
If KyKy is worth his salt, and he is, he would look forward to competing and learning, plus that would have given us more depth with Aiken.

Now both these guys are at schools that directly compete with X. We settled. Just like last years offense settled for 3 pointers.

[xavierj]

LOL. On Post 98 of this thread you literally said this:

"I think they are looking for guys to make an impact. They are going after some guys that a lot of big time programs want as well."
Aiken averaged 22.2 points per game. I kinda think that makes an impact. And "piss of KyKy"? Hmmm. Did Steele worry about "pissing off" Tyrique Jones when he went out and got Zach Hankins? Maybe he did because for 20 games last year Steele couldn't figure out how to use them effectively.
Was he worried about "pissing off KyKy" when he went out and got Nate Johnson? We all knew Paul was coming back.
If KyKy is worth his salt, and he is, he would look forward to competing and learning, plus that would have given us more depth with Aiken.

Now both these guys are at schools that directly compete with X. We settled. Just like last years offense settled for 3 pointers.

I expect Johnson to make an impact. An important guy off the bench that can stretch the defense and play defense. He won’t start unless he proves that he is that good. Big programs like Arizona and Maryland also offered him. As for Aiken’s he seems like a good player when he is healthy. Has only played 39 games over the last three years. We saw what could happen with an injury prone transfer this past year.

[XU 87]

Did Steele worry about "pissing off" Tyrique Jones when he went out and got Zach Hankins?

I believe that Hankins told the staff he was coming to X before Mack left.

Hankins was not going to take minutes from Tyrique since the goal was originally to play them both 20 minutes or so per game, with maybe Tyrique getting a little more. That would actually be more of a role Tyrique played his sophomore year when he split time with O'Mara and Kanter. Tyrique actually played about 10 minutes more per game his junior compared to his sophomore year.

As for Nate Johnson, he's not going to be taking much if any minutes from Scruggs. He's a specialty player who is coming here to shoot threes. I see him as a replacement for Bryce Moore (and hopefully better) maybe playing 10 minutes per game.

[XUGRAD80]

Now both these guys are at schools that directly compete with X. We settled. Just like last years offense settled for 3 pointers.

You know it’s just as possible that X offered those players, actively recruited them, and they just chose to go elsewhere for some reason. Isn’t it reasonable to understand that sometimes X just isn’t want a player is looking for and that other places are? Isn’t that sometimes the “reality”?

[XU 87]

You know it’s just as possible that X offered those players, actively recruited them, and they just chose to go elsewhere for some reason. Isn’t it reasonable to understand that sometimes X just isn’t want a player is looking for and that other places are? Isn’t that sometimes the “reality”?

Based on what I've read on the other board, I can almost guarantee that Steele/staff reached out to Aikens. It may have been, "How much PT would you expect to get here?" And if the answer was, "I expect to start and play 30 minutes per game.", I suspect the response was probably, "We just don't have those minutes for you. We already have two point guards that we like and who we expect to play a lot of minutes next year."

[IM4X]

We're still on Burton's list, no?

Yup. He is now down to 4 teams.

It would be tremendous to land him, but then I remember part of the reason he left is that he felt he was not getting enough playing time- and he was already getting like 25 minutes a game. I guess it is always possible he could get more minutes since Scruggs will have graduated by the time he started playing.

[AviatorX]

X's 2020 recruiting class is ranked 18th. Seton Hall is at 76 and Creighton is at 96.

I'll take our incoming players, including transfers, over theirs.

Also, Alex O'Connell is not very good. I'm surprised to see MOR clamoring for a wing who went 21-77 from distance this past season. Also not a great passer and only got to the line 18 times last season. No thanks.

Xavier had no plan on bringing in a high usage PG on top of what they have. They continue to recruit Burton from Wichita St who can cover minutes at the 1.

I am a firm believer that outside of rare exceptions (Reid Travis comes to mind) you shouldn't be looking for one year grad transfers to fill large roles. At least if you're trying to be good. A lot of these guys (especially those transferring up) recognize they can be strong role players while getting a taste of high major ball.

[xavierj]

Yup. He is now down to 4 teams.

It would be tremendous to land him, but then I remember part of the reason he left is that he felt he was not getting enough playing time- and he was already getting like 25 minutes a game. I guess it is always possible he could get more minutes since Scruggs will have graduated by the time he started playing.

He didn’t leave because of playing time. He knew what was coming and could have played 40 minutes a game next year at Wichita State. He left because he just didn’t like his coach.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

He didn’t leave because of playing time. He knew what was coming and could have played 40 minutes a game next year at Wichita State. He left because he just didn’t like his coach.

I have no insight into what is going on at Wichita State. The program seems to be a regular participant in March Madness and I thought their coach was well respected. Yet, I read in an earlier post on this board, that something like 7-8 players are looking to transfer. If true that means something is rotten in Wichita. Does anyone have some explanation? If it is just that players don't like the coach, he has been the coach for awhile and one would think that word would have gotten out and players would have transferred out in prior years and current recruits would have committed elsewhere. So, what gives?

[paulxu]

This is a job for Go.

[xavierj]

I have no insight into what is going on at Wichita State. The program seems to be a regular participant in March Madness and I thought their coach was well respected. Yet, I read in an earlier post on this board, that something like 7-8 players are looking to transfer. If true that means something is rotten in Wichita. Does anyone have some explanation? If it is just that players don't like the coach, he has been the coach for awhile and one would think that word would have gotten out and players would have transferred out in prior years and current recruits would have committed elsewhere. So, what gives?

They had 7 guys transfer, lost one to graduation and another guy declared for the draft, but will probably be back. So they basically are losing 6 of their top 8 guys, and maybe 7. I have heard one more player might transfer. They also lost a recruit who decomitted and at the time he was the only one committed for 2020. Last week they received 4 commitments from guys that basically are very low rated or not rated at all and didn’t have many of other offers and a UCONN transfer that wasn’t going to play for UCONN. They are basically like a team who just got hit with a major scandal, yet they didn’t. Next year they will have a very rough year. Have no idea what happened other than to say the players just didn’t like the coaches shit or at least that’s what I see reading between the lines.

[IM4X]

He didn’t leave because of playing time. He knew what was coming and could have played 40 minutes a game next year at Wichita State. He left because he just didn’t like his coach.

Are you sure about that.

Their coach specifically mentioned players not having enough playing time was upsetting them (see below) and I know at least a few of the players specifically stated “a lack of playing time” as at least part of the reason they left. I realize there were other alleged issues as well (e.g. players not agreeing with the coach’s method of doing things).

It may be that Burton was one of the players who simply left because he didn’t like Marshall’s way of coaching and doesn’t care as much about the minutes like some of the others.

“Of course you don’t want to see that many guys leave at once, but you also don’t want to see that many guys stay that are unhappy with their role,” Marshall said. “You’re saying those guys played 24 minutes a game, but what I’m telling you is that’s not enough. They weren’t pleased with that. My job is to try to win and their job is to try to play as much as they can.”


“I didn’t do a very good job of managing the personalities. We basically had 13 starters. We had a lot of really, really good players. But you can’t play that many, so no one was happy.”

[xavierj]

Are you sure about that.

Their coach specifically mentioned players not having enough playing time was upsetting them (see below) and I know at least a few of the players specifically stated “a lack of playing time” as at least part of the reason they left. I realize there were other alleged issues as well (e.g. players not agreeing with the coach’s method of doing things).

It may be that Burton was one of the players who simply left because he didn’t like Marshall’s way of coaching and doesn’t care as much about the minutes like some of the others.

“Of course you don’t want to see that many guys leave at once, but you also don’t want to see that many guys stay that are unhappy with their role,” Marshall said. “You’re saying those guys played 24 minutes a game, but what I’m telling you is that’s not enough. They weren’t pleased with that. My job is to try to win and their job is to try to play as much as they can.”


“I didn’t do a very good job of managing the personalities. We basically had 13 starters. We had a lot of really, really good players. But you can’t play that many, so no one was happy.”

The coach is full of crap. You don’t have 7 guys transfer out because of minutes when you also don’t have other guys coming in to take your minutes. After the first two guys left, the other guys would have played a ton. They had a freshman who played 25 minutes a game leave, another sophomore starter who played 25 minutes leave and Burton who played 27 minutes leave. I can tell you those guys are not going to be playing much more than 25 minutes a game wherever they go. 25 to 30 minutes is still a lot. They were also losing a senior so playing time is a cop out by the coach. When you have a mass exodus it’s not about minutes. And he said they had 13 starters but basically played 8 guys, which is about the norm in college basketball.

[MHettel]

Yup. He is now down to 4 teams.

It would be tremendous to land him, but then I remember part of the reason he left is that he felt he was not getting enough playing time- and he was already getting like 25 minutes a game. I guess it is always possible he could get more minutes since Scruggs will have graduated by the time he started playing.

Makes no sense. Leaving because of how much PT you got LAST year? Half the team at Wichita State is transferring. He'd get a BOAT LOAD of PT next year. And then further, as a transfer, you get ZERO PT now. He left for other reasons.

[MHettel]

I am a firm believer that outside of rare exceptions (Reid Travis comes to mind) you shouldn't be looking for one year grad transfers to fill large roles. At least if you're trying to be good. A lot of these guys (especially those transferring up) recognize they can be strong role players while getting a taste of high major ball.

Oh, I disagree with how to use Grad Transfers. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if some coach just took the approach of reloading almost his whole roster every year using ONLY Grad transfers. Just completely move away from traditional recruiting, and build a new team each year. Super fast pace and go 10 deep. There would be enough interested guys each year to want to be part of that.

And, if they get rid of the "sit out one year rule", this will FOR sure be adopted by a few coaches. Why waste time recruiting kids in HS? Just openly let everyone know that you are interested in building a new roster each year with proven, productive college transfers. It's Calipari on steroids.

[UCGRAD4X]

Oh, I disagree with how to use Grad Transfers. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if some coach just took the approach of reloading almost his whole roster every year using ONLY Grad transfers. Just completely move away from traditional recruiting, and build a new team each year. Super fast pace and go 10 deep. There would be enough interested guys each year to want to be part of that.

And, if they get rid of the "sit out one year rule", this will FOR sure be adopted by a few coaches. Why waste time recruiting kids in HS? Just openly let everyone know that you are interested in building a new roster each year with proven, productive college transfers. It's Calipari on steroids.

I agree. There is the question of the competition and the makeup of the team (and the level of coaching) pretty much the same thing with HS kids, ex.cept they have, at least played at a level well above HS (except maybe LaSalle). Overall, you do have a better idea of what you are getting and the maturity, work ethic, leadership qualities should not be underrated.

[UCGRAD4X]

Oh yeah. And Calipari on steroids would not be a pretty sight. At least that's what she said.

[IM4X]

Makes no sense. Leaving because of how much PT you got LAST year? Half the team at Wichita State is transferring. He'd get a BOAT LOAD of PT next year. And then further, as a transfer, you get ZERO PT now. He left for other reasons.

Like I responded in another post, it may be that Burton is leaving for reasons other than (or in addition to) the issue with minutes. I agree that it seems likely that he was not on the same page with the coach, when you look at his more recent comments he made about having more time now to find the right fit now. I know playing less minutes was at least part of the reason some of the other players left because even they had stated it. I don’t know that is the case with Burton. It might be his teammate (who also is considering X) that I read about saying the “lack of minutes” was an issue. It does seem likely that Burton would have remained a starter and easily played 30+ minutes if he stayed at WSU.

[xavierj]

Like I responded in another post, it may be that Burton is leaving for reasons other than (or in addition to) the issue with minutes. I agree that it seems likely that he was not on the same page with the coach, when you look at his more recent comments he made about having more time now to find the right fit now. I know playing less minutes was at least part of the reason some of the other players left because even they had stated it. I don’t know that is the case with Burton. It might be his teammate (who also is considering X) that I read about saying the “lack of minutes” was an issue. It does seem likely that Burton would have remained a starter and easily played 30+ minutes if he stayed at WSU.

I don’t think the other players left either due to minutes, well not exactly. What most have said is they were tired of the one mistake rule where If you make a mistake, you were coming out. They said it was a confidence killer and they were tired of looking over their shoulder and playing tentatively. And yes that would also reduce minutes some but I can’t find one of their transfers that said they were leaving because they wanted more minutes.

[GoMuskies]

What most have said is they were tired of the one mistake rule where If you make a mistake, you were coming out. They said it was a confidence killer and they were tired of looking over their shoulder and playing tentatively.

I think it was just Stevenson who said that, and he's a huge pussy and sucks.

[xuphan]

Sounds like we are still after another transfer. The guard and center from Wichita state both have us in their final list.

[GoMuskies]

Sounds like we are still after another transfer. The guard and center from Wichita state both have us in their final list.

The ONLY way I want Udeze is if he's a package deal with Burton somehow. He is not good.

[Xavier]

And, if they get rid of the "sit out one year rule", this will FOR sure be adopted by a few coaches. Why waste time recruiting kids in HS? Just openly let everyone know that you are interested in building a new roster each year with proven, productive college transfers. It's Calipari on steroids.

Most of the time the guys that are transferring are not proven or productive, especially at high level. I don't know that a team could be successful going after that type of player. Only way I could see a program seeing minimal success is a low tier power 5 program who goes after mid-major guys who show promise. They may be better for them than a typical HS recruit.

[xavierj]

The ONLY way I want Udeze is if he's a package deal with Burton somehow. He is not good.

I really don't think Xavier is recruiting Udeze all that hard. I think he has some upside as he was coming off shoulder surgery this season that also cut his freshman season short, but my guess is that he goes to Minnesota and I think Burton will go to Texas Tech or Seton hall. I don't think Xavier is pushing too hard on Burton either. I like him but I get the feeling that Travis is OK with what he has and what he has coming in as well as waiting until next year to see what he can get in the 21 class, and maybe a transfer after next season when they remove the sit out requirement. I could be wrong but reading between the lines on these guys.

[MHettel]

Most of the time the guys that are transferring are not proven or productive, especially at high level. I don't know that a team could be successful going after that type of player. Only way I could see a program seeing minimal success is a low tier power 5 program who goes after mid-major guys who show promise. They may be better for them than a typical HS recruit.

Yes, you are right. Most guys that transfer are not proven or productive. And they likely don't foresee a chance to overcome that so sitting out a year to get into a better situation isn't that big of a deal. They probably wouldn't play anyway.

But, if the "sit out a year" rule were to be revoked the entire premise of your argument is disrupted. Guys that are far outplaying the rest of their teammates might just consider if they could do some more winning and get some more exposure elsewhere. Or guys in GOOD situations might just decide to transfer into an ELITE situation. Imagine: David West decides to come back his senior year and play....At UNC. Or Jameer Nelson decides that UCLA is better for him than St. Joes. Or guys like Chris Monroe or Rasual Butler or any of those A10 guys that used to light us up decided to move on to a bigger program...

Now, look at Ja Morant. Averaged 12.7, 6.5, 6.3 as a Freshman. Obviously thought coming back as a soph was his best option. BUT, if he had the option to go ANYWHERE he wanted, do you really think he returns to Murray State? If he's says he's coming back, and declares "free agency" how many schools do you think would have offered him?

There are approx. 345 NCAA D1 teams. This would DECIMATE the bottom 2/3rds for sure. They would become a minor league for the top 1/3. AND if they went back to allowing HS players to jump right to the NBA, then some of the BIG TIME programs probably wouldn't even bother recruiting the HS ranks. That's a shit ton of work, and low success rate. Just scout the Freshman playing at other programs and poach them.

Now, take this even FURTHER. Imagine Athletic Directors that decide which Coach to hire based on the ability of that Coach to potentially bring a handful of immediately eligible players with him. Lets say Mack goes to UofL and Tyrique, Naji and Scruggs follow him. We are GUTTED. Elias Harden and Dontarious James would NOT transfer in that scenario. Ironic, cause those are the guys that SHOULD transfer. Lets say XU puts together a solid year next year with 2 good young recruiting classes. The outlook is GREAT for the next 2 years.....then some "big time" program that has been scuttling along (IU, Syracuse, UCLA, etc) with an AD on the hot seat decides "fuck it." And just fires his coach to grab Steele and our roster....

This is a DISASTER idea.

[xavierj]

Yes, you are right. Most guys that transfer are not proven or productive. And they likely don't foresee a chance to overcome that so sitting out a year to get into a better situation isn't that big of a deal. They probably wouldn't play anyway.

But, if the "sit out a year" rule were to be revoked the entire premise of your argument is disrupted. Guys that are far outplaying the rest of their teammates might just consider if they could do some more winning and get some more exposure elsewhere. Or guys in GOOD situations might just decide to transfer into an ELITE situation. Imagine: David West decides to come back his senior year and play....At UNC. Or Jameer Nelson decides that UCLA is better for him than St. Joes. Or guys like Chris Monroe or Rasual Butler or any of those A10 guys that used to light us up decided to move on to a bigger program...

Now, look at Ja Morant. Averaged 12.7, 6.5, 6.3 as a Freshman. Obviously thought coming back as a soph was his best option. BUT, if he had the option to go ANYWHERE he wanted, do you really think he returns to Murray State? If he's says he's coming back, and declares "free agency" how many schools do you think would have offered him?

There are approx. 345 NCAA D1 teams. This would DECIMATE the bottom 2/3rds for sure. They would become a minor league for the top 1/3. AND if they went back to allowing HS players to jump right to the NBA, then some of the BIG TIME programs probably wouldn't even bother recruiting the HS ranks. That's a shit ton of work, and low success rate. Just scout the Freshman playing at other programs and poach them.

Now, take this even FURTHER. Imagine Athletic Directors that decide which Coach to hire based on the ability of that Coach to potentially bring a handful of immediately eligible players with him. Lets say Mack goes to UofL and Tyrique, Naji and Scruggs follow him. We are GUTTED. Elias Harden and Dontarious James would NOT transfer in that scenario. Ironic, cause those are the guys that SHOULD transfer. Lets say XU puts together a solid year next year with 2 good young recruiting classes. The outlook is GREAT for the next 2 years.....then some "big time" program that has been scuttling along (IU, Syracuse, UCLA, etc) with an AD on the hot seat decides "fuck it." And just fires his coach to grab Steele and our roster....

This is a DISASTER idea.

The transfer rule of not having to sit out is definitely going to happen. It’s going to get crazy with guys transferring left and right. The main reason it will happen is that people are pushing that it’s unfair (racist) not not allow football and basketball players (not sure on baseball), to transfer without sitting out, while you can transfer and play other sports right away like golf and tennis (white sports). I didn’t know not all sports didn’t have a transfer sit out rule.

[MHettel]

The transfer rule of not having to sit out is definitely going to happen. It’s going to get crazy with guys transferring left and right. The main reason it will happen is that people are pushing that it’s unfair (racist) not not allow football and basketball players (not sure on baseball), to transfer without sitting out, while you can transfer and play other sports right away like golf and tennis (white sports). I didn’t know not all sports didn’t have a transfer sit out rule.

This is nonsense. The presumptions that "golf and tennis are white sports" and that "football and basketball are black sports" is racist to begin with. How do you build a case to prove racism, when your starting premise is racist.

I don't get it.

[xavierj]

This is nonsense. The presumptions that "golf and tennis are white sports" and that "football and basketball are black sports" is racist to begin with. How do you build a case to prove racism, when your starting premise is racist.

I don't get it.

I agree but that’s a lot of what is being pushed on the back end. I am sure a lot of coaches don’t want the rule change but no one wants the race card to be played because of it not being approved. The easiest thing to do is make the rules the same for all sports.

[MHettel]

I agree but that’s a lot of what is being pushed on the back end. I am sure a lot of coaches don’t want the rule change but no one wants the race card to be played because of it not being approved. The easiest thing to do is make the rules the same for all sports.

Ok. Then have Tennis transfers sit out a year. I'm sure there will be an uproar that nobody will care about.

Honestly, creating a situation where all players are free agents every year is a disaster and will destroy any competitive balance that remains

[xuphan]

The ONLY way I want Udeze is if he's a package deal with Burton somehow. He is not good.

If we take Udeze, is that a sign that the staff thinks Miles isn’t ready to contribute next season?

[xavierj]

If we take Udeze, is that a sign that the staff thinks Miles isn’t ready to contribute next season?

No. And it’s a non issue any way. Xavier isn’t recruiting him. I also think the fact that other than Duncomb, Xavier isn’t recruiting any other centers for 2021, So the staff must feel good with the guys in the program if that are not going after transfer bigs and they are not really recruiting any bigs for the 21 class. I heard they felt that Dumcomb was more of a luxury recruit that they wanted him, especially since he is local, but they didn’t have to have him. To me that’s a good sign they are very comfortable with Miles, Fremantle and must feel Ramsey will be ok eventually as well.

[xuphan]

No. And it’s a non issue any way. Xavier isn’t recruiting him. I also think the fact that other than Duncomb, Xavier isn’t recruiting any other centers for 2021, So the staff must feel good with the guys in the program if that are not going after transfer bigs and they are not really recruiting any bigs for the 21 class. I heard they felt that Dumcomb was more of a luxury recruit that they wanted him, especially since he is local, but they didn’t have to have him. To me that’s a good sign they are very comfortable with Miles, Fremantle and must feel Ramsey will be ok eventually as well.

Very good news indeed. I thought we were really going after Logan. Are you getting your info from Brian Snow and Rick Broering?

[xavierj]

Very good news indeed. I thought we were really going after Logan. Are you getting your info from Brian Snow and Rick Broering?

No. Just looking on recruiting sites, rivals and scout and twitter to see who they have offered. I don’t subscribe to either rivals or scout but you can still see who they have offered. If you look at who they are recruiting and who they are involved with, it is mostly wings for the 2021 class. I am not the smartest man alive but if they were worried about their center position, you would think they would be offering a bunch.

You can also look at twitter and see who the coaches are following and who the recruits are following. You can get a feel pretty good feel off Twitter in my opinion. I could be wrong on Burton and Udeze but just have a feeling that udeze will go to Minnesota and Burton either seton hall or Texas Tech. I hope I am wrong because I think Burton can be a solid addition. As for Duncomb he mentioned in some article I saw on twitter that he felt he could play right away at Indiana.

[XUGRAD80]

Hate to break this to ya J, but according to both Verbal Commits.com and 24/7, Xavier has 6 offers out to centers and 6 offers out to power forwards in the 2021 class. Now, there is no indication on how hard they are recruiting any certain player, but there are players in both those groups that have visited Xavier or have them in their top 5 schools that they are considering...according to Rivals and others. At least one of the players mentioned by both services is also a player that can either come in as a 2020 or 2021 recruit too. Also, in regards to them just recruiting wings for 2021, they currently are listed as having 40 total offers out for the 2021 class, according the VC site, and those offers cover ALL positions.

[xavierj]

Hate to break this to ya J, but according to both Verbal Commits.com and 24/7, Xavier has 6 offers out to centers and 6 offers out to power forwards in the 2021 class. Now, there is no indication on how hard they are recruiting any certain player, but there are players in both those groups that have visited Xavier or have them in their top 5 schools that they are considering...according to Rivals and others. At least one of the players mentioned by both services is also a player that can either come in as a 2020 or 2021 recruit too. Also, in regards to them just recruiting wings for 2021, they currently are listed as having 40 total offers out for the 2021 class, according the VC site, and those offers cover ALL positions.

If you dig deeper they show who they are in with (warm) and according to Scout they are really in on 12 guards/ small forwards (basically wings), one power forward and one center. I think it’s obvious they Are recruiting shooters much more than they are power forwards and centers. Maybe they just want to play 4 out 1 in type of game and have capable shooters at all 5 spots.

[XUGRAD80]

If you dig deeper they show who they are in with (warm) and according to Scout they are really in on 12 guards/ small forwards (basically wings), one power forward and one center. I think it’s obvious they Are recruiting shooters much more than they are power forwards and centers. Maybe they just want to play 4 out 1 in type of game and have capable shooters at all 5 spots.

I’ve not found those warm/cool status designations by 24/7 to be too accurate. Like I said in my post, there really is no way for us to know just how hard they are recruiting any certain players, thus it’s not possible for us to know exactly where Xavier’s interests lie. But we can tell that they have “offered a bunch” of centers and forwards. Does that mean that they are “worried” about what they already have? I’d answer that by saying that I don’t think that they are worried about what they have already in the guards/wings, but they have also offered a lot of players in those positions as well. I just think that they will continue to OFFER players in ALL positions. But I’m not sure that how many offers they have out to any certain position indicates their level of concern with the current roster, as they have about the same number of offers out for every position. I don’t follow Scout very much, so I can’t comment on their information or accuracy. But I’ve found the VC site to be pretty accurate in regards to who they have listed as having received offers. They always have a twitter post by the players announcing the offer accompanying their posting of the offer.

[bleedXblue]

The transfer rule of not having to sit out is definitely going to happen. It’s going to get crazy with guys transferring left and right. The main reason it will happen is that people are pushing that it’s unfair (racist) not not allow football and basketball players (not sure on baseball), to transfer without sitting out, while you can transfer and play other sports right away like golf and tennis (white sports). I didn’t know not all sports didn’t have a transfer sit out rule.

So maybe, just maybe tennis and golf are non revenue generating sports and that might have a little bit to do with it. I agree, they make this change and sport will never be the same again.

The cure will be worse than the illness......

Why not just make common sense change? What are they trying to "fix"? What is the problem?

[xuphan]

If you dig deeper they show who they are in with (warm) and according to Scout they are really in on 12 guards/ small forwards (basically wings), one power forward and one center. I think it’s obvious they Are recruiting shooters much more than they are power forwards and centers. Maybe they just want to play 4 out 1 in type of game and have capable shooters at all 5 spots.

Are you sure? I thought a poster on here said we just offered a 7 foot 2021 prospect from Hargrove Academy after Logan committed to IU. It seems like we want to bring a post player in for 2021.

[XUGRAD80]

Are you sure? I thought a poster on here said we just offered a 7 foot 2021 prospect from Hargrove Academy after Logan committed to IU. It seems like we want to bring a post player in for 2021.

Not only is he a possible 2021 recruit, but he is slated to graduate from high school THIS year and could enroll in college THIS fall. OR he may go to Hargrove for a year.. Rivals has him listed at 6’11” and 240. Evidently X has been talking with him for some time as Rivals lists X as one of his top suiters.

[Xavier]

If you dig deeper they show who they are in with (warm) and according to Scout they are really in on 12 guards/ small forwards (basically wings), one power forward and one center. I think it’s obvious they Are recruiting shooters much more than they are power forwards and centers. Maybe they just want to play 4 out 1 in type of game and have capable shooters at all 5 spots.

I hope so, thats my ideal lineup

[D-West & PO-Z]

I am all for the one time transfer with no sit out rule. Anything that gives the players more freedom and power I am for. Do I understand the coaches concerns and why they wouldnt like it? Sure. Do I care? No. They get paid big time money, they can deal with it.

Do I think it will be the doom and gloom scenario free for all that those against it would have you think? No. Do I think there will be some major differences that fans and coaches wont like when it negatively affects their team? Yes. But again, don't care.

They players will still be limited to only being able to do this once. Why shouldn't they get to change their mind once without punishment? Because it will make the coaches life more difficult? WGAF.

Coaches are allowed to go to a school have a lot of success for a couple years (sometimes as little as 1) and then leave for a bigger profile job without retribution (yes theres a buyout but they are getting paid and a lot of times the new school pays it) why can't the players do the same? I get it may hurt the smaller schools more or even mid level schools (although some of the largest cries against this are major college coaches) but again I am not on the side of feeling bad for the coaches or the schools, I'm just not.

I like this quote:

"Every rationale for making transferring players sit out a year has been thoroughly discredited, leaving only a few millionaire head coaches to whine about roster management," said attorney Tom Mars.


Again, this is going to happen, not sure how coronavirus is going to slow this, if at all, but at some point it will happen, theres no use whining about it or predicting all doom and gloom.

[XUGRAD80]

My opinion is that will work out OK, but that it will cause some change, and certainly will cause some worry and uncertainty to many coaches. It may be a boon to mid level programs that can guarantee players leaving top level schools, playing time and the ball in their hands. It may mean that some mid-level stars leave after a couple of years and move to high level schools. But I also think that everyone will adapt and life will go on.

[bleedXblue]

I am all for the one time transfer with no sit out rule. Anything that gives the players more freedom and power I am for. Do I understand the coaches concerns and why they wouldnt like it? Sure. Do I care? No. They get paid big time money, they can deal with it.

Do I think it will be the doom and gloom scenario free for all that those against it would have you think? No. Do I think there will be some major differences that fans and coaches wont like when it negatively affects their team? Yes. But again, don't care.

They players will still be limited to only being able to do this once. Why shouldn't they get to change their mind once without punishment? Because it will make the coaches life more difficult? WGAF.

Coaches are allowed to go to a school have a lot of success for a couple years (sometimes as little as 1) and then leave for a bigger profile job without retribution (yes theres a buyout but they are getting paid and a lot of times the new school pays it) why can't the players do the same? I get it may hurt the smaller schools more or even mid level schools (although some of the largest cries against this are major college coaches) but again I am not on the side of feeling bad for the coaches or the schools, I'm just not.

I like this quote:

"Every rationale for making transferring players sit out a year has been thoroughly discredited, leaving only a few millionaire head coaches to whine about roster management," said attorney Tom Mars.


Again, this is going to happen, not sure how coronavirus is going to slow this, if at all, but at some point it will happen, theres no use whining about it or predicting all doom and gloom.

Yeah ok but it opens up a whole new set of challenges. When can you talk to another school? Can you transfer mid year? How does that work? I just think it's going to really create more of a headache than anything. Can a school tlak to a player from another school mid year (mid season)?

If the main issue is coaches bolting and the kids cant do the same thing, then just let em transfer as they do now anyone if a coach leaves or gets fired.

Again, what are they trying to fix? What is the issue they are trying to solve that's such a big problem?

[sirthought]

So maybe, just maybe tennis and golf are non revenue generating sports and that might have a little bit to do with it. I agree, they make this change and sport will never be the same again.

The cure will be worse than the illness......

Why not just make common sense change? What are they trying to "fix"? What is the problem?

I actually like the rule as it is now, however, this is these people's lives we're talking about. They should be able to make their own life decisions and it's up to the college if they want to offer them a scholarship.

If a student is on scholarship for art or music or science, they want to be in a program where they feel they can best learn, advance and help get them into a profession. And if mid-way they find another program to be preferable or somehow an advantage, they shouldn't be penalized or held out of participating in things that are going to advance them towards their goal. It's the same with student athletes.

I love college basketball, but the messed up part is that it's gotten so inflated with money and high stakes that we actually don't take the kid's wishes into account when talking about how they want to work towards a future.

[AviatorX]

As usual with these types of issues, a lot of the counterarguments boil down to some version of "I like college basketball the way it is as a fan, and I don't want it to significantly change." Of course, I totally get that - I mean we're posting on a college basketball message board, so we all do. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it's a strong argument for the status quo.

[xuphan]

Xavier apparently are after another DII player. Seems like Steele would like to add at least one more transfer to the team next year.

[MHettel]

If a student is on scholarship for art or music or science, they want to be in a program where they feel they can best learn, advance and help get them into a profession. And if mid-way they find another program to be preferable or somehow an advantage, they shouldn't be penalized or held out of participating in things that are going to advance them towards their goal. It's the same with student athletes.



Ok, now we are on the topic of Scholarship for music. Here is an idea. Why not let kids get a degree in Basketball? They don't have to pick some other major and fake their way through the semesters. Just let them major in basketball and let the season actually be a "class" worth 6 credits or more.

Before all the critics jump in about the value of a basketball degree, I ask what exactly is the value of a music degree?

[D-West & PO-Z]

So maybe, just maybe tennis and golf are non revenue generating sports and that might have a little bit to do with it. \

Ha that is exactly the point, right?

They make us a lot of money so we are going to make it difficult for them to have the freedom to make other choices and leave.

Isn't that exactly why this is and should be happening?

[MHettel]

I am all for the one time transfer with no sit out rule. Anything that gives the players more freedom and power I am for. Do I understand the coaches concerns and why they wouldnt like it? Sure. Do I care? No. They get paid big time money, they can deal with it.

Do I think it will be the doom and gloom scenario free for all that those against it would have you think? No. Do I think there will be some major differences that fans and coaches wont like when it negatively affects their team? Yes. But again, don't care.

They players will still be limited to only being able to do this once. Why shouldn't they get to change their mind once without punishment? Because it will make the coaches life more difficult? WGAF.


I like this quote:

"Every rationale for making transferring players sit out a year has been thoroughly discredited, leaving only a few millionaire head coaches to whine about roster management," said attorney Tom Mars.



Must be nice to live in your universe. Have you observed the nature of humans in general? And specifically, have you observed the cutthroat nature of college basketball coaches. This will threaten the career of EVERY college coach. Do you REALLY want them cornered and desperate to keep their jobs. Instead of just sitting back and falling victim to having their best players poached, there will be coaches that go on the offensive and use this kind of rule change to redefine their entire recruiting strategy.

They don't even have to tamper. They just have to say "I plan to recruit only transfers, every year. I plan to make a run at the NCAA title every year, and I expect that the interest level from the best transferring players will be high"

Done. The beginning of the end.

[D-West & PO-Z]

My opinion is that will work out OK, but that it will cause some change, and certainly will cause some worry and uncertainty to many coaches. It may be a boon to mid level programs that can guarantee players leaving top level schools, playing time and the ball in their hands. It may mean that some mid-level stars leave after a couple of years and move to high level schools. But I also think that everyone will adapt and life will go on.

Of course they will. But the coaches would have you believe it would be an impossible task for them.

I'll take the job!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah ok but it opens up a whole new set of challenges. When can you talk to another school? Can you transfer mid year? How does that work? I just think it's going to really create more of a headache than anything. Can a school tlak to a player from another school mid year (mid season)?

If the main issue is coaches bolting and the kids cant do the same thing, then just let em transfer as they do now anyone if a coach leaves or gets fired.

Again, what are they trying to fix? What is the issue they are trying to solve that's such a big problem?

Headache for who? The coach? The school? Again, I can't make ti more clear that I do not care about headaches or problems for either the coach or the school. That includes Steele and Xavier. Steele makes a lot of money, I do not care if his roster management gets more difficult.

They are trying to fix the massive PR issue right now of players rights. It has never been a hotter topic. The NCAA obviously doesnt want to play players so they are trying to find at least some areas they can relax on. This is one area. Players being able to make money off their likeness is another that is coming.

It is easy for fans or coaches to say "what's the problem?".

[D-West & PO-Z]

Must be nice to live in your universe. Have you observed the nature of humans in general? And specifically, have you observed the cutthroat nature of college basketball coaches. This will threaten the career of EVERY college coach. Do you REALLY want them cornered and desperate to keep their jobs. Instead of just sitting back and falling victim to having their best players poached, there will be coaches that go on the offensive and use this kind of rule change to redefine their entire recruiting strategy.

They don't even have to tamper. They just have to say "I plan to recruit only transfers, every year. I plan to make a run at the NCAA title every year, and I expect that the interest level from the best transferring players will be high"

Done. The beginning of the end.

Do. Not. Care.

They will adapt, they will figure it out.

Nice in my universe? I'd switch with Travis Steele in a heartbeat!

And the responsibility will be on the coaches to creat their own ethical code around this. I have read that is a couple articles. There will be responsibility on the, to decide what is ok to do an what is not and for them to hold each other accountable. I know that seems ridiculous and it probably is but I am not going to cry for college coaches making hundreds of thousands or millions because all their counterparts are assholes and now their job is a little harder.

Why in college sports is the most responsibility and the most accountability put of the student athletes?

Guys like Bill Self can cheat for years and do whatever he wants with no repercussions and a player who's guardian takes a couple thousand dollars is no ineligible?

Time for the coaches to step up.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Ok, now we are on the topic of Scholarship for music. Here is an idea. Why not let kids get a degree in Basketball? They don't have to pick some other major and fake their way through the semesters. Just let them major in basketball and let the season actually be a "class" worth 6 credits or more.

Before all the critics jump in about the value of a basketball degree, I ask what exactly is the value of a music degree?

Oh please. Take it back. You cannot really think this is O.K. Xavier is now going to offer a B.A. in basketball?

[AviatorX]

Must be nice to live in your universe. Have you observed the nature of humans in general? And specifically, have you observed the cutthroat nature of college basketball coaches. This will threaten the career of EVERY college coach. Do you REALLY want them cornered and desperate to keep their jobs. Instead of just sitting back and falling victim to having their best players poached, there will be coaches that go on the offensive and use this kind of rule change to redefine their entire recruiting strategy.

They don't even have to tamper. They just have to say "I plan to recruit only transfers, every year. I plan to make a run at the NCAA title every year, and I expect that the interest level from the best transferring players will be high"

Done. The beginning of the end.

Is there a compelling reason for placing greater transfer restrictions on basketball players than other students (and even other scholarship athletes, apparently) that doesn't tie back to competitive balance/building a better product for fans/the NCAA? In my opinion, those are not good justifications for these types of restrictions.

[MHettel]

Here is an idea I had a LONG time ago. It's a compromise solution that directly addresses the players that picked a school where it appears that they unfortunately will not really ever get a shot to play. Guys like Harden, Kennedy, James and others. They didn't play at XU for the most part and under the current rules would have to sit out a year.

Here is the plan (basketball specific, probably doesn't exactly apply for football):

You have to have some kind of committee involved for the first part. The entire NCAA population of 345 teams is split into 5 tiers. Top 20%, Next 20%, middle 20%, ect. The committee defines the tiers and it's based on prior 3 years results.

If a player wants to transfer these rules would apply:
Transfer UP in Tier- sit out a year

Transfer within Tier- immediate eligibility would apply if the player played less that 5 MPG as a Freshman, or 8 MPG as a soph, or 12 MPG as a junior. The actual "minutes" shown can be adjusted to ensure reasonability, and would require careful analysis. MPG would be determined by games that they player was available to play, so injuries are considered.

Transfer down a Tier- Immediately eligible.

Players in the 5th (bottom Tier) could transfer within tier without meeting the minutes played requirements.

No Change to Grad transfers.

This approach "looks out for" pretty much all the players, to the extent that they CAN transfer somewhere without sitting out. AND it mitigates the potential for a coach to basically use traditional teams as his "minor leagues"

This will never happen, I understand that

[AviatorX]

I also think folks just quickly gloss over the fact that the vast, vast majority of transfers are transfers "down". This idea that coaches are going to build transfer super teams on a year to year basis is significantly overblown in my view. Not to mention that the most talented players are really only in college for one season, and oh yeah, they already are all concentrated across a handful of programs anyway.

[MHettel]

Is there a compelling reason for placing greater transfer restrictions on basketball players than other students (and even other scholarship athletes, apparently) that doesn't tie back to competitive balance/building a better product for fans/the NCAA? In my opinion, those are not good justifications for these types of restrictions.

So the NCAA making rules that they believe is beneficial to the quality of their product is NOT a good enough reason to make the rule? They are the governing body, right? It's their product and they have the responsibility to protect it, right?

I'm fucking lost here. Honestly. You guys live in Disneyland.

[MHettel]

I also think folks just quickly gloss over the fact that the vast, vast majority of transfers are transfers "down". This idea that coaches are going to build transfer super teams on a year to year basis is significantly overblown in my view. Not to mention that the most talented players are really only in college for one season, and oh yeah, they already are all concentrated across a handful of programs anyway.

WOW. Of Course players transfer down. They aren't getting PT, so they transfer down to get some. Good players don't transfer because there are adverse consequences. Your proposal is to remove those adverse consequences. NOW THINK ABOUT what might happen.

It doesn't MATTER what the current behaviors are under the CURRENT rules. What matters is how a change in rules will drive a CHANGE in behavior.

[Lloyd Braun]

I don’t want to say building a roster of transfers is a really dumb idea because it would be fun. But it’s not smart. More talent = better chance of winning. Top talent doesn’t transfer, they go pro. Chemistry goes a long way and I can’t imagine the headaches the coach would have trying to get new players every single year on the same page, teaching them the playbook and defensive system, etc.. It would be an epic fail for 99.9% of programs.

[AviatorX]

So the NCAA making rules that they believe is beneficial to the quality of their product is NOT a good enough reason to make the rule? They are the governing body, right? It's their product and they have the responsibility to protect it, right?

I'm fucking lost here. Honestly. You guys live in Disneyland.

You're talking about the NCAA like it's a professional for-profit sports league. They'd be the first to tell you they're a non-profit. I have absolutely no problem with artificial restrictions like this in professional sports where the participants have a say and after that every single decision is 100% focused on creating the best product. You're making me out to be a "Zion should be able to choose where he wants to go" type of guy.

You are also vastly overstating how much this "hurts" the product - we're talking about a sport where the most popular teams may have a handful of guys a decade play all 4 seasons - doesn't seem to be slowing down "the product".

Obviously in the real world the NCAA operates 100% to protect the product, so IMO it's not crazy to throw the student athletes a bone from time to time. This is the NCAA's mission statement - “to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount” - does the student-athlete experience being paramount come into play at some point or what?

[AviatorX]

WOW. Of Course players transfer down. They aren't getting PT, so they transfer down to get some. Good players don't transfer because there are adverse consequences. Your proposal is to remove those adverse consequences. NOW THINK ABOUT what might happen.

It doesn't MATTER what the current behaviors are under the CURRENT rules. What matters is how a change in rules will drive a CHANGE in behavior.

Have you been furious/super worried about all the waivers the NCAA has granted the past few years with seemingly no rhyme or reason? Has the product tanked? I mean why the hell was Elias Harden eligible to play this past season?

[MHettel]

And the responsibility will be on the coaches to creat their own ethical code around this. I have read that is a couple articles. There will be responsibility on the, to decide what is ok to do an what is not and for them to hold each other accountable.

Time for the coaches to step up.

I'm convinced. As long as we have deputized the coaches, we shouldn't expect any shenanigans or back-door dealings. Maybe we should make a committee of coaches to draft the rules. Guys like Pitino, Calipari, Miller....and uh Bruce Pearl. Maybe one more....say...Kelvin Sampson.

should work great

[D-West & PO-Z]

Here is an idea I had a LONG time ago. It's a compromise solution that directly addresses the players that picked a school where it appears that they unfortunately will not really ever get a shot to play. Guys like Harden, Kennedy, James and others. They didn't play at XU for the most part and under the current rules would have to sit out a year.

Here is the plan (basketball specific, probably doesn't exactly apply for football):

You have to have some kind of committee involved for the first part. The entire NCAA population of 345 teams is split into 5 tiers. Top 20%, Next 20%, middle 20%, ect. The committee defines the tiers and it's based on prior 3 years results.

If a player wants to transfer these rules would apply:
Transfer UP in Tier- sit out a year

Transfer within Tier- immediate eligibility would apply if the player played less that 5 MPG as a Freshman, or 8 MPG as a soph, or 12 MPG as a junior. The actual "minutes" shown can be adjusted to ensure reasonability, and would require careful analysis. MPG would be determined by games that they player was available to play, so injuries are considered.

Transfer down a Tier- Immediately eligible.

Players in the 5th (bottom Tier) could transfer within tier without meeting the minutes played requirements.

No Change to Grad transfers.

This approach "looks out for" pretty much all the players, to the extent that they CAN transfer somewhere without sitting out. AND it mitigates the potential for a coach to basically use traditional teams as his "minor leagues"

This will never happen, I understand that

This only further exacerbates the issue of: you make me money, you are too valuable to me, you can't leave without punishment.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You're talking about the NCAA like it's a professional for-profit sports league. They'd be the first to tell you they're a non-profit. I have absolutely no problem with artificial restrictions like this in professional sports where the participants have a say and after that every single decision is 100% focused on creating the best product. You're making me out to be a "Zion should be able to choose where he wants to go" type of guy.

You are also vastly overstating how much this "hurts" the product - we're talking about a sport where the most popular teams may have a handful of guys a decade play all 4 seasons - doesn't seem to be slowing down "the product".

Obviously in the real world the NCAA operates 100% to protect the product, so IMO it's not crazy to throw the student athletes a bone from time to time. This is the NCAA's mission statement - “to govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount” - does the student-athlete experience being paramount come into play at some point or what?

Well said!

[MHettel]

Have you been furious/super worried about all the waivers the NCAA has granted the past few years with seemingly no rhyme or reason? Has the product tanked? I mean why the hell was Elias Harden eligible to play this past season?

So guys transfer under the assumption that they have to sit. that is the default. A waiver is no guarantee, and typically are not granted. And when they are it's a total crapshoot as to the logic (see Wells, Dez).

The proposed scenario is essentially that a waiver is granted 100% of the time. Whats the deterrent. It enables a free-for-all

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm convinced. As long as we have deputized the coaches, we shouldn't expect any shenanigans or back-door dealings. Maybe we should make a committee of coaches to draft the rules. Guys like Pitino, Calipari, Miller....and uh Bruce Pearl. Maybe one more....say...Kelvin Sampson.

should work great

Like I said. Couldn't care less.

Coaches will adapt, those who dont wont have a job and it will be filled by others and life will move on. This will happen, there will be some changes, some bitching and in a few years no one will care and it will be the new normal.

What is your worst case scenario? College basketball will cease to exist? It cant be that the rich will get richer because we are already there lol.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The proposed scenario is essentially that a waiver is granted 100% of the time. Whats the deterrent. It enables a free-for-all

Again I am failing to see the problem?

Coaches have to work harder? There will be tampering? Roster management will be more difficult?

Not a big deal.

[MHettel]

This only further exacerbates the issue of: you make me money, you are too valuable to me, you can't leave without punishment.

OR......"I'm going to provide you a potentially LIFE CHANGING opportunity to receive a quality education and vastly improve your prospects of earning money over the course of you entire career." "this opportunity includes you agreeing to play your chosen sport on an amateur level, and there are rules and regulations which outline certain conditions to accepting this opportunity" "the games played will generate revenue, which in turn is used to fund the opportunity in the first place, as well as provide funds for similar opportunities for players of other sports that may not be self-funded"

Yeah. what a rip off!

[AviatorX]

So guys transfer under the assumption that they have to sit. that is the default. A waiver is no guarantee, and typically are not granted. And when they are it's a total crapshoot as to the logic (see Wells, Dez).

The proposed scenario is essentially that a waiver is granted 100% of the time. Whats the deterrent. It enables a free-for-all

I would check out the trend of how many waivers have been granted the past few seasons. Jeff Goodman typically informally tracks this and there has been a definite and significant shift. I agree it's a total crapshoot as to the logic, but the number of waivers granted has gone way way up. It's probably getting close to the point where we can't even accurately say they are typically not granted.

[D-West & PO-Z]

OR......"I'm going to provide you a potentially LIFE CHANGING opportunity to receive a quality education and vastly improve your prospects of earning money over the course of you entire career." "this opportunity includes you agreeing to play your chosen sport on an amateur level, and there are rules and regulations which outline certain conditions to accepting this opportunity" "the games played will generate revenue, which in turn is used to fund the opportunity in the first place, as well as provide funds for similar opportunities for players of other sports that may not be self-funded"

Yeah. what a rip off!

HA from the guy who just suggested they get a basketball degree!

[D-West & PO-Z]

OR......"I'm going to provide you a potentially LIFE CHANGING opportunity to receive a quality education and vastly improve your prospects of earning money over the course of you entire career." "this opportunity includes you agreeing to play your chosen sport on an amateur level, and there are rules and regulations which outline certain conditions to accepting this opportunity" "the games played will generate revenue, which in turn is used to fund the opportunity in the first place, as well as provide funds for similar opportunities for players of other sports that may not be self-funded"

Yeah. what a rip off!

And this wouldnt fly when they player says "yes I appreciate that very much and love the opportunity but I feel this academic institution would fit me better and look forward to continuing my academic and athletic career uninterrupted there."

Answer: No you are taking money from my school now, you must be disciplined.

[D-West & PO-Z]

The good news is this new rule is happening just not sure if it will happen this year still with all the coronavirus issues arising or if it will be pushed a year.

Also good news is college basketball wont collapse.

Also good news is athletes will get more freedom.

Also good news is schools, coaches, and NCAA will continue to profit nicely.

Also good news is eventually none of us will remember when there was a dumb rule that forced players to sit out a year when they switched schools under the guise of adjusting academically.

[AviatorX]

The good news is this new rule is happening just not sure if it will happen this year still with all the coronavirus issues arising or if it will be pushed a year.

Also good news is college basketball wont collapse.

Also good news is athletes will get more freedom.

Also good news is schools, coaches, and NCAA will continue to profit nicely.

Also good news is eventually none of us will remember when there was a dumb rule that forced players to sit out a year when they switched schools under the guise of adjusting academically.

It would definitely be interesting to see some of the doom and gloom predictions when the grad transfer rule exploded. Now, here we are in 2020 complaining Steele doesn't bring in better ones!

[bleedXblue]

Ha that is exactly the point, right?

They make us a lot of money so we are going to make it difficult for them to have the freedom to make other choices and leave.

Isn't that exactly why this is and should be happening?

b/c no one gives a sh&t about those sports

AGAIN....what is the problem we are trying to solve?

[bleedXblue]

Headache for who? The coach? The school? Again, I can't make ti more clear that I do not care about headaches or problems for either the coach or the school. That includes Steele and Xavier. Steele makes a lot of money, I do not care if his roster management gets more difficult.

They are trying to fix the massive PR issue right now of players rights. It has never been a hotter topic. The NCAA obviously doesnt want to play players so they are trying to find at least some areas they can relax on. This is one area. Players being able to make money off their likeness is another that is coming.

It is easy for fans or coaches to say "what's the problem?".

Player rights? WTF are you talking about?

[D-West & PO-Z]

b/c no one gives a sh&t about those sports

AGAIN....what is the problem we are trying to solve?

Again exactly, what are you missing?

And I have answered the problem for you several times.

Just because it isnt a problem to the fans or coaches doesnt mean it isnt for the players.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Player rights? WTF are you talking about?

You don't follow college sports?

[AviatorX]

You don't follow college sports?

Or he works for the NCAA?

[bleedXblue]

You don't follow college sports?

No we just choose to disagree on it being an issue. Kids get a choice to go to whatever school they want. They get a free education, room and board etc, They are not oppressed. They are not treated unfairly. The NCAA grants waivers (another poster just referenced this) and have been way more lenient the last few years. They don't get it right 100% of the time.