Game Thread: Xavier v. Butler (February 12, 2020) Big East Conference Game

[xudash]

It’s best not to get too high after a win, or too low after a loss.

So true.

I’m watching Villanova versus Marquette and it makes me feel a little better, witnessing Swider not playing all that effectively.

[sirthought]

Xavier done got HANDLED. Very deflating after their slight progress.

Butler seemed similar to Xavier in many respects, just executing better and making smart plays. Hitting from outside helped a lot too.

Zack is young and hopefully will start to defend stronger in the low post. Tandy seems to know what he wants to do, but sometimes his body doesn't move as quick as his mind does. I'd like to see him improve dribbling in traffic more often to create more opportunities.

The ball movement in the half court is still too slow moving. We get better assists and opportunities when they bother to move from side to side quicker.

Marshall was slow to kick into gear, but he played really well overall. Jones had a great game. The rest of them shat the bed.

[nuts4xu]

It’s best not to get too high after a win...

May not be best, but some will tell you that is exactly what you do after a big win OR a tough loss.

https://i.insider.com/5c9a66d316c9586aa83a17a4?width=1300&format=jpeg&auto=webp

[xavierj]

Xavier done got HANDLED. Very deflating after their slight progress.

Butler seemed similar to Xavier in many respects, just executing better and making smart plays. Hitting from outside helped a lot too.

Zack is young and hopefully will start to defend stronger in the low post. Tandy seems to know what he wants to do, but sometimes his body doesn't move as quick as his mind does. I'd like to see him improve dribbling in traffic more often to create more opportunities.

The ball movement in the half court is still too slow moving. We get better assists and opportunities when they bother to move from side to side quicker.

Marshall was slow to kick into gear, but he played really well overall. Jones had a great game. The rest of them shat the bed.

I wouldn’t say Xavier got handled, they just didn’t finish the first half. You hold McDermott and Baldwin to 25 points on 7 of 20 from the floor and 3 of 10 from 3 you usually will win. Also Free did fine. He had 9 and 5 and the 3 bigs for Butler combined for 16 and 7. No one expected a guy with 1 three all year in conference play to hit 3 of 3 in the first half. That was the difference. The game plan was good but the ball didn't fall the right way. A few possessions sealed it for Butler. Goodin fouling a guy on a 3 with the clock running out, Free tip in they call a foul was BS, Naji missing 2 free throws during a run and Paul’s 3 goes in and out and they hit a 3. That was the difference. So not sure how they were handled.

[SM#24]

I don't have really any complaints about last night, except of course we lost. I liked our defense, rebounding, energy. Only 9 TOs. Needed more from Naji in the first half, I know we decry his "hero ball," but we need some of that from him. Tyrique played another very good game.
We just didn't make shots. Scruggs and Tandy can't go 2-14 and expect to win. I really had no issue with shot selection. We just missed a lot shots we normally make at a much better rate.
I would have liked to see more Carter in the last 10 minutes. While, I'm in the less Q camp, it appeared to me that Travis liked him guarding Baldwin and leaving Naji on McDermott. All in all, I thought we did a good job on Baldwin with Q guarding him most of the game.

[drudy23]

Anyone have any news on that Nova game coming up? Home or away?

[Xville]

I think what last night showed more than anything is that x is not good enough to win a game in which only two players show up (one of them only showed up toward the end of the second half).

Not sure what is going on with scruggs, just slumping big time and tandy was pretty medicore. X can withstand one of them not playing well, but not both. That's not really fair to tandy as a freshman but q and moore are just not very good, and limited.

I'm also really tired of seeing carter put up bricks two feet from the basket.

Anyways, win Monday and the team will still be on the right track.

[94GRAD]

Anyone have any news on that Nova game coming up? Home or away?

Not sure if it's home or away but Dana's will be open at 10 am with beer tubs in the parking lot pre and post-game!

[chico]

Anyone have any news on that Nova game coming up? Home or away?

I heard it was going to be a neutral site game.

[94GRAD]

I heard it was going to be a neutral site game.

Did I miss the brawl the last time we played them?

[bjf123]

Anyone have any news on that Nova game coming up? Home or away?

I’ve heard it’s home, but since that was on the internet, it’s probably fake news.


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[xudash]

I’ve heard it’s home, but since that was on the internet, it’s probably fake news.


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I can confirm that it's a home game, but rumor has it that it has been moved to Schmidt as part of the 40th anniversary celebration for the Big East.

[xu koop scoop]

I had posted in 1 thread how we needed to avoid a "star" player getting 2 quick fouls due to lack of depth. I also mentioned 2 players getting 2 quick fouls was much worse due to,lack of consistent depth. Last nite was Scruggs & Tandy. Nobody took over for them & worse was neither did any good after reentering the game. I look at who is consistent on this team & I shudder. There is Mr Jones (except FTs). Naji is next closest & then a big fall off. A big game still is at Providence. We may be fighting them for the BE 6 Seed & the final 1st rd bye in BE Tourney

[OTRMUSKIE]

X is only losing two more games. I say nova and providence. That gives them 9-9 20-11. At that point we are in and I don’t care about what seed we have in the Beast. Give me an extra game!!!

[xudash]

X is only losing two more games. I say nova and providence. That gives them 9-9 20-11. At that point we are in and I don’t care about what seed we have in the Beast. Give me an extra game!!!

We're going to beat Nova at the Cintas Center.

[bjf123]

I can confirm that it's a home game, but rumor has it that it has been moved to Schmidt as part of the 40th anniversary celebration for the Big East.

Cool! I went to games at Schmidt with my father. Sat in the first row behind the scorer’s table. Saw Steve Thomas, Bob Quick, Luther Rackley, etc., play there. Great memories.


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[paulxu]

Kegs and Eggs?

[xavierj]

I think what last night showed more than anything is that x is not good enough to win a game in which only two players show up (one of them only showed up toward the end of the second half).

Not sure what is going on with scruggs, just slumping big time and tandy was pretty medicore. X can withstand one of them not playing well, but not both. That's not really fair to tandy as a freshman but q and moore are just not very good, and limited.

I'm also really tired of seeing carter put up bricks two feet from the basket.

Anyways, win Monday and the team will still be on the right track.

Agree with all of this. Still time to snap out of it. People bring up Malcolm Bernard and if you look back he didn’t do much, and was pretty bad until his last three Big East games and into the conference tourney and NCAA. All of these guys can have the light flip on and the team can roll. We know Scruggs has the potential and just needs to turn it on. If that happens all will be good.

[94GRAD]

Kegs and Eggs?

Paul, if you're there at 10 am, I'll make sure any breakfast you want is waiting for you!

[Masterofreality]

Ok.

I've finally settled down after last night. And I've "checked the tape" so there is zero emotion in what I'm saying here about the Butler game.
1) Jason Carter should never, and I mean NEVER start another game. A). He was Minus 9 on his time on the court. B) He had 7 shots (not counting the 2 he had blocked- badly, and one time when he just fumbled the ball away underneath) and made only 2 of them. NONE of those shots were more than 2 feet from the basket. C) He's shooting 38.7% on all shots for the year, most of them within 2 feet. D) He's shooting 23.7% from 3 for the season. E) He's weak, soft, gets easily pushed out of position F) His defensive rating last night was the second worst on the team, G) Is a MAC player on a Big East Team, and H) When he left last night's game in the second half, Xavier was down 17. They wound up losing by 5.
Dude has no business starting. At best he's a spot sub. PERIOD
2) We can beat Butler, but stop with the damn mental errors- 2 of the worst were on Q, 1 was on Scruggy, and a couple were on Naji just zoning out and losing McDermott. There was also one bad break were Ty just lost a rebound that he usually gets off a foul shot. That happens. The other stuff shouldn't.
3) The second foul on Scruggs was total BS. Just an awful call that changed the whole first half. X was up 7-2, then Scruggs had to go to the bench. If anything Baldwin pushed off on him, Later, Naji got mauled and no call. Clougherty called the damn 2nd foul on Scruggs, and he's a hack.
4 and Lastly) Our best lineup, that many of us have been saying for awhile is Scruggy, KyKy, Freemantle, Naji and Ty. Those guys should be starting with Moore the first off the bench. That was the lineup that got the game back close.

Ok. I'm done. On to St. Johns.

[scoscox]

Our best lineup, that many of us have been saying for awhile is Scruggy, KyKy, Freemantle, Naji and Ty. Those guys should be starting with Moore the first off the bench.

Agreed. Indisputably our best lineup

[Xville]

Agreed with the lineup...it is frankly not even close and I'm sick of not seeing the best five players starting.

[XUBob]

MOR,
Completely agree with you lineup assessment. Carter has had enough time we know what he is. Needs to come off the bench and fill a role.

[paulxu]

Paul, if you're there at 10 am, I'll make sure any breakfast you want is waiting for you!

This came awfully close to getting me in the car for the drive up. I'm buying next time in.

[chico]

I haven't read through all these posts but in case it wasn't brought up, there were 3 possessions in the second half where the shot clock was about to run out on Butler and in 2 of them they hit desperation 3's and the third was an airball that where the Butler player pulled a Lorenzo Charles and tupped it in. Those 3 possessions netted Butler 8 points. For all the mistakes and bad fouls, those 3 possessions won Butler the game. I doubt they'll be that lucky when they come to our place.

[whopper]

I did point out that Jordan Tucker with his height and lift can't be stopped from getting a shot that at least hits rim from anywhere at the college level which makes is impossible to get a shot clock violation. He just happened to hit both 3''s mentioned over good defense and as Q(Baldwin) and Naj(McEwen) found out you can't crowd a 3 pt shooter with lift at end of clock or they will be shooting 3 FT. McDermott followed the air ball 3 and I think Thompson shot it. We don't have. player with lift and high release like Tucker

[Lloyd Braun]

I haven't read through all these posts but in case it wasn't brought up, there were 3 possessions in the second half where the shot clock was about to run out on Butler and in 2 of them they hit desperation 3's and the third was an airball that where the Butler player pulled a Lorenzo Charles and tupped it in. Those 3 possessions netted Butler 8 points. For all the mistakes and bad fouls, those 3 possessions won Butler the game. I doubt they'll be that lucky when they come to our place.

Every game is different so to presume that all the rest of the game will be the same and if those 3 possessions were different the outcome would be different is a bit silly IMO. Baldwin will likely play better in the next game, same for Scruggs. It’s a new game and regardless of prior matchup I like X’s chances mostly because I feel the teams are fairly even their peaks and not because one team will have a four leaf clover handy.

[Final4]

I'm in total agreement with the aforementioned lineup as well and have thought for some time that it's our best option. Carter off the bench to spell the bigs and Moore off the bench to spell the guards. And Q used very sparingly.

[Xavier]

It frustrates me that Carter misses so many easy looks...but he is getting them. I think his instincts are some of the best on the team. He plays off the ball pretty well, which is probably why he does get so many solid looks. He just can't finish, yet. It is mental, he has the opportunity and obviously did well with it at OU. Lately he has had a few drives that were surprising. He is poised to have that late season bump (like bernard).

I also think we have found the sweet spot for Q. Let him come in and spell some people- he is good at that role. Too many minutes for him and we see the dumb plays and bad turnovers (that foul at the end of the half is one of the dumbest plays we have seen in awhile)

[bleedXblue]

It frustrates me that Carter misses so many easy looks...but he is getting them. I think his instincts are some of the best on the team. He plays off the ball pretty well, which is probably why he does get so many solid looks. He just can't finish, yet. It is mental, he has the opportunity and obviously did well with it at OU. Lately he has had a few drives that were surprising. He is poised to have that late season bump (like bernard).

I also think we have found the sweet spot for Q. Let him come in and spell some people- he is good at that role. Too many minutes for him and we see the dumb plays and bad turnovers (that foul at the end of the half is one of the dumbest plays we have seen in awhile)

Steele inexplicably played him 26 minutes? I don't get that at all. Sure, if he's having a great game you ride the hot hand. He did next to nothing for 26 minutes? He had Moore available and KyKy..........who I know was in some foul trouble early. I think more like 10-15 minutes is good for Q. That's about it.

[Masterofreality]

It frustrates me that Carter misses so many easy looks...but he is getting them. I think his instincts are some of the best on the team. He plays off the ball pretty well, which is probably why he does get so many solid looks. He just can't finish, yet. It is mental, he has the opportunity and obviously did well with it at OU. Lately he has had a few drives that were surprising. He is poised to have that late season bump (like bernard).


Carter is getting "looks" because the opposition feels like they can play off of him. He's shooting 23% from 3 and only 38% on all shots. He's not a freshman, but has never played at this level before. I can't even find that he ever had a star ranking coming from such a small high school. The guy had 10 close to the basket touches against Butler- fumbled one away, had 2 shots blocked and missed 5 out of 7 actual shots. That is blatantly unacceptable for a major college starter. Glad he has all those practice points.
By the way, and I love Paul Scruggs, I really do, but he had a bad game vs Butler- part of which was due to an awful 2nd foul call by ClougHACKery. But remember the statement "You Play based upon how you Practice?" Welp. Paul had the Gold Jersey before the Butler game, so that worked out well.
Plus, based upon the list I've seen, Tu Holloway only won the Gold Jersey once. I think he played pretty well.
Look, I'm all for making sure guys practice hard and efficiently, but this seeming overemphasis on "guys play based upon their practice performance" just keeps rubbing me the wrong way. If a guy is inattentive in practice, can't grog a defensive concept, or is just lazing through it, oh yeah, he ain't playing much, but for some guys to continually be granted starting game spots, when they continually don't produce when it counts is just wrong.
I keep saying it. Some people are great when there's no heat, but shrink when the lights come on. Some people live for the spotlight and make sure they are prepared for it. I want players, not posers.

[xavierj]

Carter is getting "looks" because the opposition feels like they can play off of him. He's shooting 23% from 3 and only 38% on all shots. He's not a freshman, but has never played at this level before. I can't even find that he ever had a star ranking coming from such a small high school. The guy had 10 close to the basket touches against Butler- fumbled one away, had 2 shots blocked and missed 5 out of 7 actual shots. That is blatantly unacceptable for a major college starter. Glad he has all those practice points.
By the way, and I love Paul Scruggs, I really do, but he had a bad game vs Butler- part of which was due to an awful 2nd foul call by ClougHACKery. But remember the statement "You Play based upon how you Practice?" Welp. Paul had the Gold Jersey before the Butler game, so that worked out well.
Plus, based upon the list I've seen, Tu Holloway only won the Gold Jersey once. I think he played pretty well.
Look, I'm all for making sure guys practice hard and efficiently, but this seeming overemphasis on "guys play based upon their practice performance" just keeps rubbing me the wrong way. If a guy is inattentive in practice, can't grog a defensive concept, or is just lazing through it, oh yeah, he ain't playing much, but for some guys to continually be granted starting game spots, when they continually don't produce when it counts is just wrong.
I keep saying it. Some people are great when there's no heat, but shrink when the lights come on. Some people live for the spotlight and make sure they are prepared for it. I want players, not posers.

The gold jersey thing is something that they have been doing for years. Chris Mack does it at Louisville. Jason Carter didn’t play the last 10 minutes and they still lost. I feel Moore should have been in as he can play defense and at least be a threat from 3. Either way they played well enough on defense to win but didn’t get enough baskets to fall and got a really tough whistle. Some BS whistle shit. Some of the mistakes can happen on the road, but the game plan was good. They held McDermott and Baldwin in check.

[Xville]

The gold jersey thing is something that they have been doing for years. Chris Mack does it at Louisville. Jason Carter didn’t play the last 10 minutes and they still lost. I feel Moore should have been in as he can play defense and at least be a threat from 3. Either way they played well enough on defense to win but didn’t get enough baskets to fall and got a really tough whistle. Some BS whistle shit. Some of the mistakes can happen on the road, but the game plan was good. They held McDermott and Baldwin in check.

And louisville fans are just as annoyed because he isnt playing the best 5 in the starting lineup either.

I dont give a crap how great carter is at practice, he mostly been terrible this year in games which are the things that actually.matter. carter may be great next year, as other transfers have sometimes taken a year to get acclimated. However, right now, he doesnt deserve the game time he gets, and definitely not a starting position. Just like q (which took almost two years of him being awful for Steele to make the change), it's time for carter to go to the bench.

[xavierj]

And louisville fans are just as annoyed because he isnt playing the best 5 in the starting lineup either.

I dont give a crap how great carter is at practice, he mostly been terrible this year in games which are the things that actually.matter. carter may be great next year, as other transfers have sometimes taken a year to get acclimated. However, right now, he doesnt deserve the game time he gets, and definitely not a starting position. Just like q (which took almost two years of him being awful for Steele to make the change), it's time for carter to go to the bench.

I don’t disagree. However we have seen guys turn it on late like Malcolm Bernard, who was very mediocre until late in his grad transfer year. If Carter starts converting, people will love him. He’s averaging 6 points 5 rebounds, and is not bad defensively, so he can bring value, but maybe that is coming off the bench. I just don’t know what you give up defensively if you do that. Worth a shot I guess. You take him out completely, you basically have 6 guys. Maybe it’s best if he does come off the bench because right now the only guys coming off the bench are guards. Maybe bringing a big off the bench would be good.

[Masterofreality]

I don’t disagree. However we have seen guys turn it on late like Malcolm Bernard, who was very mediocre until late in his grad transfer year. If Carter starts converting, people will love him. He’s averaging 6 points 5 rebounds, and is not bad defensively, so he can bring value, but maybe that is coming off the bench. I just don’t know what you give up defensively if you do that. Worth a shot I guess. You take him out completely, you basically have 6 guys. Maybe it’s best if he does come off the bench because right now the only guys coming off the bench are guards. Maybe bringing a big off the bench would be good.

Xavier was down by 17 points with about 15 minutes to go in the 2nd half when Carter went out...never to return. X lost by 5. Carter also had the 2nd worst defensive efficiency rating of any Xavier player vs Butler. Second only to Naji- who zoned out vs McDermott at least twice. At least Naji gives offense to offset his bad D Wednesday night. Carter gives you blown bunnies.
Look, it’s not ALL on Carter but right now he’s a big hole on 2 ends. I’m usually not this against a player, and I’m not against the guy..I just don’t think he should be starting or finishing a game. Dude is less than mediocre in games.

[Masterofreality]

I don’t disagree. However we have seen guys turn it on late like Malcolm Bernard, who was very mediocre until late in his grad transfer year. If Carter starts converting, people will love him. He’s averaging 6 points 5 rebounds, and is not bad defensively, so he can bring value, but maybe that is coming off the bench. I just don’t know what you give up defensively if you do that. Worth a shot I guess. You take him out completely, you basically have 6 guys. Maybe it’s best if he does come off the bench because right now the only guys coming off the bench are guards. Maybe bringing a big off the bench would be good.

Xavier was down by 17 points with about 15 minutes to go in the 2nd half when Carter went out...never to return. X lost by 5. Carter also had the 2nd worst defensive efficiency rating of any Xavier player vs Butler. Second only to Naji- who zoned out vs McDermott at least twice. At least Naji gives offense to offset his bad D Wednesday night. Carter gives you blown bunnies.
Look, it’s not ALL on Carter but right now he’s a big hole on 2 ends. I’m usually not this against a player, and I’m not against the guy..I just don’t think he should be starting or finishing a game. Dude is less than mediocre in games.

[xavierj]

Xavier was down by 17 points with about 15 minutes to go in the 2nd half when Carter went out...never to return. X lost by 5. Carter also had the 2nd worst defensive efficiency rating of any Xavier player vs Butler. Second only to Naji- who zoned out vs McDermott at least twice. At least Naji gives offense to offset his bad D Wednesday night. Carter gives you blown bunnies.
Look, it’s not ALL on Carter but right now he’s a big hole on 2 ends. I’m usually not this against a player, and I’m not against the guy..I just don’t think he should be starting or finishing a game. Dude is less than mediocre in games.

Naji was bad on defense? Maybe metrics but the guy guarded two guys that were basically shut down from their averages. He guarded either Baldwin or McDermott and those guys were pretty much held in check. Maybe I missed it but MCDermott was 33% on 3’s and Baldwin was 27% overall and 25% on 3’s. I will take that every time out against those guys.

[scoscox]

Naji was bad on defense? Maybe metrics but the guy guarded two guys that were basically shut down from their averages. He guarded either Baldwin or McDermott and those guys were pretty much held in check. Maybe I missed it but MCDermott was 33% on 3’s and Baldwin was 27% overall and 25% on 3’s. I will take that every time out against those guys.

he did zone out a few times on mcdermott and he hit some big 3's

[AviatorX]

Naji was bad on defense? Maybe metrics but the guy guarded two guys that were basically shut down from their averages. He guarded either Baldwin or McDermott and those guys were pretty much held in check. Maybe I missed it but MCDermott was 33% on 3’s and Baldwin was 27% overall and 25% on 3’s. I will take that every time out against those guys.

Nah he wasn't bad, he just wasn't perfect. But he also went for 20/7/7 and is still taking heat so it's just how people talk about Naji (even though this team would be absolutely horrible without him).

Carter got blitzed by Thompson a few times during Butler's run to open up the big lead in the second half, which was inexcusable.

[AviatorX]

People railing against the gold jersey is pretty weird. A ton of programs do something similar. Let's not act like when Steele is making crunch time lineup decisions he's checking the practice points standings.

[Masterofreality]

People railing against the gold jersey is pretty weird. A ton of programs do something similar. Let's not act like when Steele is making crunch time lineup decisions he's checking the practice points standings.

What I'm saying is Steele keeps saying that playing time is based upon practice supposedly. I'm saying that practice performance doesn't always translate into GAME performance including the Gold Jersey, which, by the way, I'm fine with for the incentive. I LOVE Scruggernuts and he's performed in the past but the gold jersey week didn't translate.
Hate to say it but Carter NEVER translates. You just can't always make game playing decisions based on practice!!