Coach Steele

[Xuperman]

None of that was coachspeak. For once, he actually spoke some truth, and if you have watched any of the games this year, you need to be honest; defense and rebounding have been an issue far outside of 20 minutes in one game this year.

Sorry, I disagree Shadow King....coaches say what coaches say, and the season stats don't back that up.

I have watched all the games on replay. I am simply in disagreement with the toughness narrative that has gotten some traction here. Toughness is not or will be an issue with this team.

[Xville]

Sorry, I disagree Shadow King....coaches say what coaches say, and the season stats don't back that up.

I have watched all the games on replay. I am simply in disagreement with the toughness narrative that has gotten some traction here. Toughness is not or will be an issue with this team.

Being almost 90th in def in kenpom and being outrebounded in half the games dont back up the soft narrative? Ok then

[IM4X]

Let's be very clear: In the SH game, the problem was not simply that the guards had an off night shooting. The entire team also struggled miserably on defense... and bad defense becomes glaringly more noticeable when shots aren't falling.

While it was tough to watch, at least Steele did admit to how embarrassingly bad the defense was and stated "it will be better." We shall see.

Now if he would just enlighten us as to why he chose not to press until the game was out of reach.

[GoMuskies]

Making too many changes, and too soon.

Ok, but you realize Xavier hasn't fired a coach in 40 years, right? I don't think we're in any danger of becoming Browns like.

[xu82]

Ok, but you realize Xavier hasn't fired a coach in 40 years, right? I don't think we're in any danger of becoming Browns like.

Even without the pattern, it can still be the same mistake. It’s one of the things I love about Xavier basketball. I love our stability, hence my desire to see how this plays out.

[XUGRAD80]

Just from a strictly financial perspective I doubt very seriously that there is any reason to worry about X firing any coach without more just cause than a poor record. Especially after this year, Xavier is in no position to pay someone NOT to coach and I doubt that there are any big dollar Donors willing to put their own money into making that happen. At least not at this point. If X was to fall completely apart the rest of the year? Or if they don’t have a good year NEXT year? Maybe that changes then, but I can’t see it at this point in the journey. IMO it’s not even worth considering.

[xukeith]

There is a difference between being physically tough and being mentally tough. Reynolds, for example, was very strong, very physically tough, but couldn't hang mentally when the pressure was on. Xavier CURRENTLY lacks any inside presence that is mentally tough. But that really shouldn't surprise anyone. They are relying on Freemantle (sophomore), Carter (transfer), Griffin (transfer), and Stanley (transfer). Generally speaking it's not until a player gets to be an upperclassman that they are really mentally tough, so i don't think it is any surprise that Freemantle is still getting bullied by bigger, stronger, older players. Carter showed some physical toughness when he got the one-handed rebound while bleeding, but he really didn't do anything after that. I just don't think it is in his nature to be the heavy. Griffin and Stanley have some physical attributes, but the BE is a BIG step up in physicality and toughness from what they have been used to playing against. Will they be able to hang mentally? Only time will tell. I said before the season started that this was a "young" and "inexperienced" team, and I'll stick to that. Other than Scruggs, who else has multiple years of play against BE level competition? Nobody. It is the rare freshman or transfer that can come into high-major level competition and hold their own physically and mentally right away. I don't see this as a "coaching" thing either, unless you want to equate recruiting and coaching as the same thing. You can't really "coach" someone to be tough, especially as a freshman/sophomore or newcomer. They either have it already, or it will take TIME to develop, or it will never happen. Xavier has had lots of players that never developed the mental toughness and maturity to match their physical strength. On the other hand, they have had players like Holloway whose mental toughness was far exceeding what they could do physically. He came in as a freshman with mental toughness, but that is very rare. Odom may have it too, but that's still TBD. I don't see it in the other freshman as of yet, nor in the transfers. Not writing this year off, but i do feel that if X needs to find one player for the future, that player needs to be an defensively intimidating low post player. I think that Steele realizes that his team lacks that player, and that is one of the reasons he has gone to an open post offense this year. On the other hand, they certainly had that type of player the last 2 years, and where did it get them? NIT and bubble. So now they have the outside game they lacked before, but not the inside game they had. But I'm still hopeful that they will develop more mental toughness as the year goes on and that they will learn how to play to their strengths successfully. Still a lot of season left. I am anxious to see how they bounce back from a butt whupping. The SJU game should tell us a lot about the mental state of this team.

I think Seton Hall and a couple other BE teams have these large European post players in their arsenal. X has leaned on getting the best small forwards and guards. It is a jigsaw puzzle trying to be pieced together.
Between now and next year, the frosh, Tandy and Freemantle will smooth out these bumps in game.

[Olsingledigit]

I think Seton Hall and a couple other BE teams have these large European post players in their arsenal. X has leaned on getting the best small forwards and guards. It is a jigsaw puzzle trying to be pieced together.
Between now and next year, the frosh, Tandy and Freemantle will smooth out these bumps in game.

Just a hunch, but I think Tandy might transfer. I hope not.

[Masterofreality]

Making too many changes, and too soon. I bet they wish they had given Belichick more time. Turnover means starting over. I like stability until proven it clearly won’t work. I’d rather try to improve what we have and give it every opportunity to grow into the job and succeed. For now.

Belichick was fired by Art Modell when he moved the whole team to Baltimore.
Maybe you can criticize Jimmy Haslam over the past few years, he probably should have given Mike Pettine more time, but the Belichick thing is no where close.
The Browns have it right now though. Would you rather go the Bengals/Clifton Community College route by keeping a guy around for years who couldn’t win in the postseason rather than going for the ring?

[Masterofreality]

Just a hunch, but I think Tandy might transfer. I hope not.

It does seem as if KyKy’s role is diminishing. Is it a one year Nate Johnson phenomenon or permanent?
I was encouraged to see that he has been in the gym taking extra shots, so at least he’s fighting for position.

[Masterofreality]

THIS. XJ,...you are consistently on point. I have NO idea how/why this "soft" narrative is getting traction....it is insanely void of anything in reality. There are way too many of our senior posters here that have zero patience and very questionable optimism.

It’s getting traction because the Head Coach of this team said it out of his own mouth himself, and rebounding stats back it up.
How it is addressed going forward is what will determine how this year goes.
Whatcha got Coach?

[Masterofreality]

In your eyes, anytime X loses is because Steele is a shitty coach. The last two years you preached that Steele doesn't know how to run an offense. Now that he has good offensive players, you now say he doesn't know how to run a defense. The team is 8-2, and this is what you have to say?

8-2 with no big wins. It took a missed free throw by Bradley to give us that game. Oklahoma at least may turn out to be after beating Huggins but is our record a mirage? Is the early season shooting a mirage vs other weak defenses? Scouting and good oppo coaches make s difference.
Our defense is 90th ranked. That is not good. Our rebounding is awful.
We shall see what changes are made going forward. I’m hoping that Seton Hall was a one off, but they barely beat Providence yesterday.
Being concerned with substandard performance and not having your team ready for stuff the oppo will throw at you is appropriate.

[Smails]

This thread has taught me a lot about 70 year olds on the internet...

This in spades...

[Masterofreality]

This in spades...

Why? Because we are seasoned, see reality and are realistically concerned without rose colored glasses?
Look, I’d like to just throw platitudes around but there are concerns, and as I pointed out, not by 70 year olds, but young former Xavier Managers.
There’s that.

[xavierj]

Why? Because we are seasoned, see reality and are realistically concerned without rose colored glasses?
Look, I’d like to just throw platitudes around but there are concerns, and as I pointed out, not by 70 year olds, but young former Xavier Managers.
There’s that.

A Xavier manager that must have thought all was well under Mack? It wasn’t. If your idea of success is losing 12 to 15 games half the time and making an occasional run to the sweet 16 or elite 8, then have at it. I want Xavier to be more like Villanova and Gonzaga. Mack wasn’t taking us to the next level. Hopefully Travis can put together that team or program that can. 2.5 years in and we don’t know. We are building the shooters and skill but need that total team to get there. Offense, defense, rebounding, toughness and attitude. Keep building.

[X-band '01]

For everyone who said this was a complete team, the main missing cog right now is a Tyrique Jones/Zack Hankins/Matt Stainbrook enforcer in the post. Even though Seton Hall was a better matchup last year, it's still going to be very unnerving to see our guys outtoughed.

It's also not helping that we don't know what their next opponent will be - if St. John's can't go this week, their next game will be at home against Providence next Sunday. That's another game that could be a potential embarrassment if they can't correct the mistakes from the Seton Hall game.

[xu82]

Belichick was fired by Art Modell when he moved the whole team to Baltimore.
Maybe you can criticize Jimmy Haslam over the past few years, he probably should have given Mike Pettine more time, but the Belichick thing is no where close.
The Browns have it right now though. Would you rather go the Bengals/Clifton Community College route by keeping a guy around for years who couldn’t win in the postseason rather than going for the ring?

The Browns have had 8 coaches since 2010 (including two interim HC’s), and 12 since 2000. THAT is a joke, and that is my point. It may have been some hyperbole on my part, but stability counts for something in my book.


https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/head-coaches

[JTG]

For everyone who said this was a complete team, the main missing cog right now is a Tyrique Jones/Zack Hankins/Matt Stainbrook enforcer in the post. Even though Seton Hall was a better matchup last year, it's still going to be very unnerving to see our guys outtoughed.

It's also not helping that we don't know what their next opponent will be - if St. John's can't go this week, their next game will be at home against Providence next Sunday. That's another game that could be a potential embarrassment if they can't correct the mistakes from the Seton Hall game.

Butler just barely lost to SH and they have freshmen playing, and no big bodies down low. So was it just an anomaly ? I don't know. I just know we need less finesse, and more nasty.

[bleedXblue]

My only real expectation for this year for Steele was for him to emerge and show that he clearly has the program moving in the direction. Time will tell......I like some of what I see and some I don't. Another mediocre season was not what I was hoping for and it just feels right now that we are headed there.

[XUGRAD80]

When evaluating this season I think it’s important to note that it has not been smooth sailing in regards to the schedule. Not just the game schedule, but also the development and practice schedule. Nor should be expect it to be for the remainder of the season. Even now, after having yesterday’s game rescheduled, we still don’t know for sure if they will play SJU on Wednesday. They didn’t have hardly any off season workouts, had several OOC games canceled, have already had one pause in the season, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone if that happened again. In other words, the progress curve should not be expected to be smooth. Like the rest of the season, there are going to be stop, starts, missteps, and even back steps, from time to time. This is far from a finished product and a set back from time to time should not unexpected or reason to panic.

[bleedXblue]

When evaluating this season I think it’s important to note that it has not been smooth sailing in regards to the schedule. Not just the game schedule, but also the development and practice schedule. Nor should be expect it to be for the remainder of the season. Even now, after having yesterday’s game rescheduled, we still don’t know for sure if they will play SJU on Wednesday. They didn’t have hardly any off season workouts, had several OOC games canceled, have already had one pause in the season, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone if that happened again. In other words, the progress curve should not be expected to be smooth. Like the rest of the season, there are going to be stop, starts, missteps, and even back steps, from time to time. This is far from a finished product and a set back from time to time should not unexpected or reason to panic.

Yeah, but all teams are impacted by this.....

[XUGRAD80]

Yeah, but all teams are impacted by this.....

Now that was unexpected.....it actually took over an hour for someone to point that out. I’m disappointed :facepalm: (Sarcasm folks)


The idea that because everyone has challenges, we should not acknowledge the challenges that X faces, is stupid. It does not change the fact that this season is not like past seasons for X, just because it’s also different for others. My post was not to make excuses for X, but merely to point out that perhaps it would be wise to not expect progress to be like it might be in a normal season. IMO it will neither happen as quickly, nor as smoothly, as we might otherwise expect...just like the season itself.

[Masterofreality]

A Xavier manager that must have thought all was well under Mack? It wasn’t. If your idea of success is losing 12 to 15 games half the time and making an occasional run to the sweet 16 or elite 8, then have at it. I want Xavier to be more like Villanova and Gonzaga. Mack wasn’t taking us to the next level. Hopefully Travis can put together that team or program that can. 2.5 years in and we don’t know. We are building the shooters and skill but need that total team to get there. Offense, defense, rebounding, toughness and attitude. Keep building.

So you deny that Chris Mack, with some admitted mistakes, was the greatest Coach in Xavier history?
-Number 1 seed
-Highest ranking ever
-Elite 8
-Numerous Sweet 16s
-Big East regular season championship.

You are delusional. And a hater. Mack’s resume speaks for itself.
And it spoke to a blue blood ACC school. Just stop with this nonsense.

Let’s see if Mr. Steele matches that record. Methinks if he does you’ll be crowing on here.

[xu82]

So you deny that Chris Mack, with some admitted mistakes, was the greatest Coach in Xavier history?
-Number 1 seed
-Highest ranking ever
-Elite 8
-Numerous Sweet 16s
-Big East regular season championship.

You are delusional. And a hater. Mack’s resume speaks for itself.
And it spoke to a blue blood ACC school. Just stop with this nonsense.

Let’s see if Mr. Steele matches that record. Methinks if he does you’ll be crowing on here.

Chris Mack was indeed the best coach in Xavier history, IMO.

Until the end when he had his sights set on the next chapter. He wasted a #1 seed and a talented team. I’m no “insider”, but I had heard he was gone in advance. He left the cupboard bare for his successors. He took the money and ran, for his own reasons.

Having said all that, I’m not blaming him as a person. We all make our own decisions for our own reasons. That’s life, no fault in that. But I’m keeping a balanced opinion of him. I loved him when he was all in, coaching and recruiting hard. He had checked out at the end and it was clear, IMO.

Steele wasn’t quite ready for game day situations, but he deserves time to step up and be the man. That’s my opinion, and I know all any of us has is an opinion.

[GoMuskies]

Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mack

Not really sure I could even comprehend an argument to the contrary. Particularly given that everything he did was without the benefit of being in the Big East. 2008 is still our best team ever.

[xu82]

Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mack

Not really sure I could even comprehend an argument to the contrary. Particularly given that everything he did was without the benefit of being in the Big East. 2008 is still our best team ever.

He got a lot from what he had, and nobody could hold a torch to his ability to sweat through his clothes!




(The Lyons situation bothered me, tbh.)

[xavierj]

So you deny that Chris Mack, with some admitted mistakes, was the greatest Coach in Xavier history?
-Number 1 seed
-Highest ranking ever
-Elite 8
-Numerous Sweet 16s
-Big East regular season championship.

You are delusional. And a hater. Mack’s resume speaks for itself.
And it spoke to a blue blood ACC school. Just stop with this nonsense.

Let’s see if Mr. Steele matches that record. Methinks if he does you’ll be crowing on here.

Not a hater but a realist. Mack took over a golden opportunity after what Miller left him, plus got into the big East. In 9 years he lost 13 or more games 5 times. Got blown out in the elite 8, blew the Wisconsin game and blew the Florida State game. Other than being in the Big East he really didn’t take the program to be any better than it was from 2003-2008. I expected more and when he left he didn’t leave the program with the talent level that his predecessor left him. I am not saying that Steele is some awesome coach, but expected Chris to leave it better than it was and also felt as though Chris should have faired better on a more consistent basis as far as wins and losses. He can thank Trevon for getting him to Louisville. Had Trevon stuck with UCLA, Chris never would have won the Big East or landed a number 1 seed.

[X-band '01]

He got a lot from what he had, and nobody could hold a torch to his ability to sweat through his clothes!




(The Lyons situation bothered me, tbh.)

He also left Mack with a much better situation than Mack left for Steele.

[xu82]

He also left Mack with a much better situation than Mack left for Steele.

ZERO question about that.

[xu82]

Not a hater but a realist. Mack took over a golden opportunity after what Miller left him, plus got into the big East. In 9 years he lost 13 or more games 5 times. Got blown out in the elite 8, blew the Wisconsin game and blew the Florida State game. Other than being in the Big East he really didn’t take the program to be any better than it was from 2003-2008. I expected more and when he left he didn’t leave the program with the talent level that his predecessor left him. I am not saying that Steele is some awesome coach, but expected Chris to leave it better than it was and also felt as though Chris should have faired better on a more consistent basis as far as wins and losses. He can thank Trevon for getting him to Louisville. Had Trevon stuck with UCLA, Chris never would have won the Big East or landed a number 1 seed.

Fine points, indeed.

[Xville]

Anyone who thinks mack is a better coach than miller is smoking major crack.

[XUGRAD80]

I would also take Miller over Mack, but that’s not to downplay what Mack accomplished. I just prefer the way the Miller teams competed. However, I’m also keeping in mind that Miller has some real problems currently with the NCAA and that what he accomplished at X may have a bit of taint to it because of that.

[boozehound]

Not a hater but a realist. Mack took over a golden opportunity after what Miller left him, plus got into the big East. In 9 years he lost 13 or more games 5 times. Got blown out in the elite 8, blew the Wisconsin game and blew the Florida State game. Other than being in the Big East he really didn’t take the program to be any better than it was from 2003-2008. I expected more and when he left he didn’t leave the program with the talent level that his predecessor left him. I am not saying that Steele is some awesome coach, but expected Chris to leave it better than it was and also felt as though Chris should have faired better on a more consistent basis as far as wins and losses. He can thank Trevon for getting him to Louisville. Had Trevon stuck with UCLA, Chris never would have won the Big East or landed a number 1 seed.

Hard to find fault with any of this, IMO.

People were off-and-on frustrated with Mack, with good cause IMO. He never really seemed to fit all of the pieces together. He had some early success with Holloway, Lyons, and Crawford and then hit a rough patch. He also had a couple of somewhat improbable tournament runs (2011-2012 when a team that went 10-6 in the A10 made the Sweet 16 and 2016-2017 when a team that went 9-9 in the Big East made the Elite 8). Still, he was good for a Sweet 16 just about every other season. Obviously it ended on a very frustrating note when our #1 Seed team lost in the 2nd round. I would agree that Miller seems to be better, however he wasn't at Xavier for all that long and has struggled to get over the hump in AZ, so maybe we are just looking back with rose colored glasses to some extent.

Back to Coach Steele: I would have preferred a 'clearer' option to succeed Chris than Travis Steele. Someone with a bit more experience who is a bit of a known quantity. I think he is doing an OK job, but I don't think he is going to be the next Jay Wright or Mark Few. I'm not sure that I really think Chris Mack was either, though.

[Xavier]

I think both Mack and Miller would've taken X to a final four if they stayed, both could have been Mark Few type. To me Mack is Xavier's most successful coach and you can't really argue it that much. He gave X its two highest seeds, got Xavier as far as any coach has- arguable the best win in X history (considering the circumstances, that win over Arizona) and he won the Big East. And to his credit- I don't think there is a better coach coming out of a Time out than Mack.

I prefer Miller overall, though. His teams had a toughness that is needed. If he knew X would be going to the Big East I don't think he ever would've left. He hasn't lived up to expectations at AZ but I think its more to do with a change in recruiting strategy than anything. He is better off with strong players for 3-4 years instead of building around "super star" talent that is at AZ for 1-2 years.

Obviously, I don't have the same thought with Steele. It took awhile for me to think Mack could take X to the final four and I am sure it took awhile for me to think the same with Miller. For the first time in 3 years with Steele I finally started to have hope in the future, one bad loss isn't changing that.

[drudy23]

I would say Mack has the better basketball mind, and Miller is the better coach.

Those two paired together were top notch.

[AviatorX]

Hard to find fault with any of this, IMO.

People were off-and-on frustrated with Mack, with good cause IMO. He never really seemed to fit all of the pieces together. He had some early success with Holloway, Lyons, and Crawford and then hit a rough patch. He also had a couple of somewhat improbable tournament runs (2011-2012 when a team that went 10-6 in the A10 made the Sweet 16 and 2016-2017 when a team that went 9-9 in the Big East made the Elite 8). Still, he was good for a Sweet 16 just about every other season. Obviously it ended on a very frustrating note when our #1 Seed team lost in the 2nd round. I would agree that Miller seems to be better, however he wasn't at Xavier for all that long and has struggled to get over the hump in AZ, so maybe we are just looking back with rose colored glasses to some extent.

Back to Coach Steele: I would have preferred a 'clearer' option to succeed Chris than Travis Steele. Someone with a bit more experience who is a bit of a known quantity. I think he is doing an OK job, but I don't think he is going to be the next Jay Wright or Mark Few. I'm not sure that I really think Chris Mack was either, though.

I'm sure everyone would have preferred that, the problem is that clearer option (known quantity) didn't exist.

[boozehound]

I think both Mack and Miller would've taken X to a final four if they stayed, both could have been Mark Few type. To me Mack is Xavier's most successful coach and you can't really argue it that much. He gave X its two highest seeds, got Xavier as far as any coach has- arguable the best win in X history (considering the circumstances, that win over Arizona) and he won the Big East. And to his credit- I don't think there is a better coach coming out of a Time out than Mack.

I prefer Miller overall, though. His teams had a toughness that is needed. If he knew X would be going to the Big East I don't think he ever would've left. He hasn't lived up to expectations at AZ but I think its more to do with a change in recruiting strategy than anything. He is better off with strong players for 3-4 years instead of building around "super star" talent that is at AZ for 1-2 years.

Obviously, I don't have the same thought with Steele. It took awhile for me to think Mack could take X to the final four and I am sure it took awhile for me to think the same with Miller. For the first time in 3 years with Steele I finally started to have hope in the future, one bad loss isn't changing that.

I think that either could have gotten Xavier to a Final Four, but I don't think it's fair to say they would have. Getting to a Final 4 is hard, and usually involves some amount of luck. As you mentioned, Miller still hasn't managed to do it in like 10 years at AZ.

Regarding Miller: He certainly did have some tough teams. We haven't had a PG since Holloway that I would take over Tu. He was tough as nails, a tenacious defender, and most importantly he didn't turn the ball over.

Mack may well be a better coach, but I think his inability to consistently recruit at the PG position really hurt his teams. We really never had good PG play with any consistency and a lot of those teams suffered from it. I always thought he spent too much time on the top recruits that we usually missed out on. We were in the Final 3 for a lot of great PGs over his tenure, but none of them actually came here and I think it hurt. If he had spent more time recruiting a notch below the top tier I think we could have been more successful. How much better could Blueitt have been if he didn't have to take the ball up the court and initiate the offense so often?

If I had to bet, I would think Mack will have more success at Louisville than Miller has had at AZ, though. I also think Louisville is an easier job with access to better recruiting grounds and more talent.

[boozehound]

I'm sure everyone would have preferred that, the problem is that clearer option (known quantity) didn't exist.

Right, I totally get that. I guess to be fair to Xavier Few and Wright probably weren't 'know quantities' when they first got their HC jobs (although I'm not super well versed on either of their backgrounds, so I could be wrong).

[Xville]

I think that either could have gotten Xavier to a Final Four, but I don't think it's fair to say they would have. Getting to a Final 4 is hard, and usually involves some amount of luck. As you mentioned, Miller still hasn't managed to do it in like 10 years at AZ.

Regarding Miller: He certainly did have some tough teams. We haven't had a PG since Holloway that I would take over Tu. He was tough as nails, a tenacious defender, and most importantly he didn't turn the ball over.

Mack may well be a better coach, but I think his inability to consistently recruit at the PG position really hurt his teams. We really never had good PG play with any consistency and a lot of those teams suffered from it. I always thought he spent too much time on the top recruits that we usually missed out on. We were in the Final 3 for a lot of great PGs over his tenure, but none of them actually came here and I think it hurt. If he had spent more time recruiting a notch below the top tier I think we could have been more successful. How much better could Blueitt have been if he didn't have to take the ball up the court and initiate the offense so often?

If I had to bet, I would think Mack will have more success at Louisville than Miller has had at AZ, though. I also think Louisville is an easier job with access to better recruiting grounds and more talent.

Gotta disagree here. Just from a geography standpoint, you are competing with major programs all in a two hour radius. At Arizona, you are competing with 1-2 programs for talent. Gonzaga, and I guess UCLA from a historical standpoint. Pac 12 is pretty weak, ACC is perennially a top 3 conference every single year. Now with all that said, I don't think either of them ever reach a final four. Karma is a bitch.

[boozehound]

Gotta disagree here. Just from a geography standpoint, you are competing with major programs all in a two hour radius. At Arizona, you are competing with 1-2 programs for talent. Gonzaga, and I guess UCLA from a historical standpoint. Pac 12 is pretty weak, ACC is perennially a top 3 conference every single year. Now with all that said, I don't think either of them ever reach a final four. Karma is a bitch.

You are definitely right about the competition, but it also seems (to me at least) like there is a crapload more basketball talent in the Eastern US (and particularly Southeast) than there is in the West / Southwest.

[Xville]

Right, I totally get that. I guess to be fair to Xavier Few and Wright probably weren't 'know quantities' when they first got their HC jobs (although I'm not super well versed on either of their backgrounds, so I could be wrong).

Few I don't know but Wright at least had head coaching experience and had been to the tourney several times with Hofstra. Anyone that X hired would have come with questions, but I do think that being in the Big East, we shouldn't have had to deal with a coach that was learning on the job. Yet, Steele just seemed like a logical choice im sure, the assistant well had worked several times, in-laws tied to Xavier, could get him relatively cheap, young etc.

I just have some major reservations with Steele and I have never felt like that with a Xavier coach before. I want him to be successful because i think he will stay if given the opportunity, but he has a lot to learn. I really think he would benefit from an experienced assistant with a strong X and O mind.

[drudy23]

I really think he would benefit from an experienced assistant with a strong X and O mind.

I thought that was what the Butler guy was for - does that guy do any recruiting?

[Xville]

You are definitely right about the competition, but it also seems (to me at least) like there is a crapload more basketball talent in the Eastern US (and particularly Southeast) than there is in the West / Southwest.

If you take a look at the top 100 for 2021, about a third of the talent is west of the mississippi river....now if you talk overall like probably top 250, the East is probably more stacked, but top talent, is not a big disparity---i was actually surprised when i looked.

[boozehound]

If you take a look at the top 100 for 2021, about a third of the talent is west of the mississippi river....now if you talk overall like probably top 250, the East is probably more stacked, but top talent, is not a big disparity---i was actually surprised when i looked.

I actually am surprised. Maybe just East Cost / Midwest bias on my part. I think that Louisville definitely has a harder road than Arizona toward winning their conference and overall record, though. When you get to the tournament that doesn't matter as much though, assuming you are good enough to get a top 2 seed.

[XU 87]

I'm sure everyone would have preferred that, the problem is that clearer option (known quantity) didn't exist.

That's true. When I looked at all the viable options to Travis, not one jumped out to me and said, 'Let's get that guy." I thought the best alternative option at the time was Brannen from NKU. He's not looking so good right now.

[GoMuskies]

Wes Miller (why is he still at UNCG?) and Steve Forbes were about the only two "up and coming" head coaches that looked interesting to me at the time. Outside of one of those two, Steele was the obviously choice.

[Smails]

That's true. When I looked at all the viable options to Travis, not one jumped out to me and said, 'Let's get that guy." I thought the best option at the time was Brannen from NKU. He's not looking so good right now.

No kidding. I will admit that I was in the go get Greg Marshall camp for a bit..of course I didn't know he was a serial abuser and just an all around bad guy at the time. Thank god they didn't target him.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier couldn't have even come close to affording Gregg Marshall anyway, so it was never an issue.

[noteggs]

Few I don't know

Few’s resume is almost identical to Steele’s. Gonzaga assistant for 9 years before becoming the head coach.

[xuwin]

“Rebounding, I know they (Seton Hall) are a big team, the biggest team in the Big East, but at the same time, it takes no talent to block out. It takes a level of physicality, a level of toughness and discipline to block out ... that's completely unacceptable," said Steele.

Steele also said that they got “exposed”. His word, not mine.

We ain’t talking about a game 13-14 years ago, we are talking about a game 4-5 days ago.

Everybody keeps blaming the rebounding on a lack of toughness by the big guys. I think this is the poorest rebounding guard group that Xavier has had in a long time. I would like to see some stats on rebounding from the guard position this year compared to the past.

[Xville]

here's something disturbing.....Georgetown, Marquette and Providence all outrebounded Hall by pretty significant margins. I really hope this game was just one of those outlier events, but the excuses of Hall being the tallest team and blah blah blah go by the wayside when those teams significantly outrebound them. The Hall is an average team and they smoked X. Creighton, Nova and UConn will all destroy them.

[XU 87]

here's something disturbing.....Georgetown, Marquette and Providence all outrebounded Hall by pretty significant margins. I really hope this game was just one of those outlier events, but the excuses of Hall being the tallest team and blah blah blah go by the wayside when those teams significantly outrebound them. The Hall is an average team and they smoked X. Creighton, Nova and UConn will all destroy them.

Although that's anecdotal, I think the overall stats say that Steele's teams haven't been very good rebounding teams the last few years.

[xukeith]

here's something disturbing.....Georgetown, Marquette and Providence all outrebounded Hall by pretty significant margins. I really hope this game was just one of those outlier events, but the excuses of Hall being the tallest team and blah blah blah go by the wayside when those teams significantly outrebound them. The Hall is an average team and they smoked X. Creighton, Nova and UConn will all destroy them.

X should have rebounded well with SH.

SH is very long and SH length did confuse and frustrate X guards.

No excuse for poor rebounding.

[XUGRAD80]

Steele addressed that in the comment I posted earlier....out toughed and lacking in effort. Something that X is NOT known to allow to happen. Hopefully it was only a 1 night happening, but if it continues to happen it is certainly cause for concern I would think. Gotta have heart and desire, talent will only take you so far.

[XUGRAD80]

Everybody keeps blaming the rebounding on a lack of toughness by the big guys. I think this is the poorest rebounding guard group that Xavier has had in a long time. I would like to see some stats on rebounding from the guard position this year compared to the past.

I agree, and I don’t think that Steele was just talking about his bigs. In his PRE game comments he had said that they would need the guards and wings to rebound too.

[boozehound]

I agree, and I don’t think that Steele was just talking about his bigs. In his PRE game comments he had said that they would need the guards and wings to rebound too.

I felt like when we were winning we were actually rebounding pretty well this year, but I'm too lazy to go dig up the stats and compare them to prior year teams / the field.

We definitely rebounded extremely poorly against Seton Hall though. We basically just sucked in every phase of the game. It was not good.

[XUGRAD80]

I felt like when we were winning we were actually rebounding pretty well this year, but I'm too lazy to go dig up the stats and compare them to prior year teams / the field.

We definitely rebounded extremely poorly against Seton Hall though. We basically just sucked in every phase of the game. It was not good.

X was OUT rebounded by UC and Creighton. Even against 2 of the others, and won the rebounding war against the others, but I’m pretty sure it was only by a 2-4 difference in most of them. They did dominate against Oakland, but I think there are a lot of HS teams that would do that too.

[boozehound]

X was OUT rebounded by UC and Creighton. Even against 2 of the others, and won the rebounding war against the others, but I’m pretty sure it was only by a 2-4 difference in most of them. They did dominate against Oakland, but I think there are a lot of HS teams that would do that too.

Well damn. I guess making shots really does cure everything.

[MADXSTER]

Well damn. I guess making shots really does cure everything.

When you make shots, there are no rebounds to be had.

[GoMuskies]

Well damn. I guess making shots really does cure everything.

We shot like shit against Creighton and were lucky they did, too. UC just flat sucks and we barely won, so not all that impressed (even though I'm ALWAYS happy to beat UC!).

[boozehound]

We shot like shit against Creighton and were lucky they did, too. UC just flat sucks and we barely won, so not all that impressed (even though I'm ALWAYS happy to beat UC!).

I kind of gave them a pass for the Creighton game. On the road in a strange environment / time. They definitely did shoot poorly as did Creighton.

If we don't see a significant bounceback tomorrow against St John's I think there is cause for significant concern.

[xavierj]

We shot like shit against Creighton and were lucky they did, too. UC just flat sucks and we barely won, so not all that impressed (even though I'm ALWAYS happy to beat UC!).

So do they get any credit for causing Creighton to shoot poorly or do they only get criticism when the other team shoots well? As for UC they have been in every game including at Tennessee but they clearly have no idea how to win close games.

[BandDad]

Here is the issue with looking at rebounding as just pure numbers. Most teams clearly rebound a higher percentage of missed shots on the defensive end compared to the offensive end. Since Seton Hall was making everything they were throwing up (including Mamu with his bank deposit), there weren't many defensive rebounds to be had. Conversely, since it looked like I was shooting for the Musketeers, SH had oodles of defensive rebound chances. Most coaches any more tend to look at the percentage of rebounds on both ends of the court rather than the raw numbers. That said, it was just one of those nights against Seton Hall. They were making shots they hadn't made all year, had prayers going in and didn't miss a shot at the free throw line. Those nights happen. If I was Steele, I wouldn't even have the shown the team the tape!

[Masterofreality]

We shot like shit against Creighton and were lucky they did, too. UC just flat sucks and we barely won, so not all that impressed (even though I'm ALWAYS happy to beat UC!).

Don't forget that we were within a Bradley free throw of losing. Also we had to go to OT vs Eastern Kentucky. We were Number 1 in KenPom luck fro a reason. That being said, see below.


That said, it was just one of those nights against Seton Hall. They were making shots they hadn't made all year, had prayers going in and didn't miss a shot at the free throw line. Those nights happen. If I was Steele, I wouldn't even have the shown the team the tape!

I'm willing to just chalk up the Seton Hall game as a payback when we went to The Hall last year and, probably, had no business winning that game with almost the same kind of performance that the Hall put on us. We were smoking hot that game, and The Hall was not good that day. Maybe just Karma evening out?

Even though this team is 8-2, I just keep having this feeling that the season could still go either way. Was the early season shooting a mirage? Will this team's defense and rebounding get better? Can Steele figure out rotations that work and not just throw guys out there willy nilly?
I'm convinced that there had better be a rotation tightening. Too many non-productive minutes. Like we've said before, there are no participation trophies.

[GoMuskies]

I know we've had guys like Hankins and CJ Anderson who've been lights out great, but when I watch us in Big East play, I DO have to wonder a bit as to whether being the low-major/D-II all-stars is the right path to Big East success. I suppose the rest of the season will tell us.

[Xville]

So do they get any credit for causing Creighton to shoot poorly or do they only get criticism when the other team shoots well? As for UC they have been in every game including at Tennessee but they clearly have no idea how to win close games.

anecdotal but i do remember Creighton missing a lot of point blank layups that were basically uncontested...i made mention of it several times in the game thread.

UC is seriously garbage...defending them at all is just weird.

[Xville]

Here is the issue with looking at rebounding as just pure numbers. Most teams clearly rebound a higher percentage of missed shots on the defensive end compared to the offensive end. Since Seton Hall was making everything they were throwing up (including Mamu with his bank deposit), there weren't many defensive rebounds to be had. Conversely, since it looked like I was shooting for the Musketeers, SH had oodles of defensive rebound chances. Most coaches any more tend to look at the percentage of rebounds on both ends of the court rather than the raw numbers. That said, it was just one of those nights against Seton Hall. They were making shots they hadn't made all year, had prayers going in and didn't miss a shot at the free throw line. Those nights happen. If I was Steele, I wouldn't even have the shown the team the tape!

good gawd.....this is some Trump rationalization here. If Steele would have said any of this junk in his press conference, he would have and should have immediately been canned. Thankfully, he has some sense of the game and his players and know that rebounding and toughness were a serious problem.

[boozehound]

I know we've had guys like Hankins and CJ Anderson who've been lights out great, but when I watch us in Big East play, I DO have to wonder a bit as to whether being the low-major/D-II all-stars is the right path to Big East success. I suppose the rest of the season will tell us.

I would imagine that it isn't. I'm fine with plugging a hole here and there with D2/Low Major transfers, but I don't think that they should make up half of your starting 5. I can't really think of a good program that consistently does that. I agree that it will be interested to see what happens in conference play.

[boozehound]

anecdotal but i do remember Creighton missing a lot of point blank layups that were basically uncontested...i made mention of it several times in the game thread.

UC is seriously garbage...defending them at all is just weird.

Now that you mention that, Creighton did miss a ton of uncontested layups.

[drudy23]

Does Steele even recruit big guys? He's trying to turn Freemantle into Carmelo.

His recruiting profile seems to be very similar for each new recruit we get (point guards and shooting guards). Most of our bigs have come from transfers - like, every single one but one.

Do we have any 6'10" bangers in the pipeline? I doubt it. We're trying to mirror Villanova.

[Xville]

Does Steele even recruit big guys? He's trying to turn Freemantle into Carmelo.

His recruiting profile seems to be very similar for each new recruit we get (point guards and shooting guards). Most of our bigs have come from transfers - like, every single one but one.

Do we have any 6'10" bangers in the pipeline? I doubt it. We're trying to mirror Villanova.

Except that Nova has a a Mcd all-american (i believe) 5 star in Robinson-Earl who is also 6'9 235. If X had someone like that, it'd be fine to model ourselves after that.

[drudy23]

I'm not saying we're doing a good job at mirroring them - just that Steele is fascinated with it. Reports are that's part of how he landed the gig - 5 out style, alot of shooters, stretch 4's, limited big guys that clog the post.

I think we need to balance with some pounders. Villanova is just a different animal.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah. Sorry but we’re not getting the same level of talent that a 2 time National Champion (Villanova) is getting. Similar is not equal.
Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but these things are not the same.

[xukeith]

I'm not saying we're doing a good job at mirroring them - just that Steele is fascinated with it. Reports are that's part of how he landed the gig - 5 out style, alot of shooters, stretch 4's, limited big guys that clog the post.

I think we need to balance with some pounders. Villanova is just a different animal.

I imaging most BE coaches are trying to match Villanova.

[Xavier]

Yeah, last thing I want is a Xavier coach to look at the most successful program in the last 10 years and try to model itself after that.

[Xavier]

Can Steele figure out rotations that work and not just throw guys out there willy nilly?
I'm convinced that there had better be a rotation tightening. Too many non-productive minutes. Like we've said before, there are no participation trophies.

Completely agree with this. Pointed it out right away. It’s like he has a bunch of new toys and wants to use them all. While I think the team is deep, the sub pattern seems bizarre with no rationale. Carter was dominating the first four minutes last game and he was subbed out first. Maybe carter said he was tired or something, overall it just seems tough for guys to get into any rhythm

[MHettel]

Completely agree with this. Pointed it out right away. It’s like he has a bunch of new toys and wants to use them all. While I think the team is deep, the sub pattern seems bizarre with no rationale. Carter was dominating the first four minutes last game and he was subbed out first. Maybe carter said he was tired or something, overall it just seems tough for guys to get into any rhythm

I'm not loving the roster management for basically opposite reasons. This team has more depth than any past XU team I can think of. Why not utilize that depth by playing VERY up tempo and forcing the opponent to match the tempo and then seeing how the end of THEIR bench reacts.

If our Starting 5 is: Scruggs, Johnson, Jones, Carter and Freemantle

then

Our 6 thru 10 consists of: Griffin, Stanley, Kunkle, Tandy and Odom.

And i'm not even TRYING to find minutes for Miles or Wilcher.

Does anyone remember back in the A10, when we'd have a stacked starting 5 and a short bench. Then we'd play Duquesne and they would press us for 40 minutes using walk ons and we'd just fall apart late in the game due to fatigue. That's with a CRAP Duquesne team using WALK ONs.

I've never seen this much depth on an XU team. I don't expect that we will ever see it again. It's a GIANT ADVANTAGE, only if you exploit it.

Your style and playbook should be based on your roster. Period. This roster SCREAMS for "run & gun"

[Masterofreality]

I'm not loving the roster management for basically opposite reasons. This team has more depth than any past XU team I can think of. Why not utilize that depth by playing VERY up tempo and forcing the opponent to match the tempo and then seeing how the end of THEIR bench reacts.

If our Starting 5 is: Scruggs, Johnson, Jones, Carter and Freemantle

then

Our 6 thru 10 consists of: Griffin, Stanley, Kunkle, Tandy and Odom.

And i'm not even TRYING to find minutes for Miles or Wilcher.

Does anyone remember back in the A10, when we'd have a stacked starting 5 and a short bench. Then we'd play Duquesne and they would press us for 40 minutes using walk ons and we'd just fall apart late in the game due to fatigue. That's with a CRAP Duquesne team using WALK ONs.

I've never seen this much depth on an XU team. I don't expect that we will ever see it again. It's a GIANT ADVANTAGE, only if you exploit it.

Your style and playbook should be based on your roster. Period. This roster SCREAMS for "run & gun"

These are excellent points. Props

[XUGRAD80]

Does Steele even recruit big guys? He's trying to turn Freemantle into Carmelo.

His recruiting profile seems to be very similar for each new recruit we get (point guards and shooting guards). Most of our bigs have come from transfers - like, every single one but one.

Do we have any 6'10" bangers in the pipeline? I doubt it. We're trying to mirror Villanova.

Miles is every bit of 6’10”, but still needs to add bulk. He’s also still the youngest player on the team. He was only 17 when he came to X. Ramsey is 6’8-9” and listed at 235. He is cleared to play now, so let’s hope he can contribute. X has offered several bigs, many with bulk too, but the one coming in next year is another 6-10 and 205-210 player that likes to play on the outside. Players that are tall, bulky, strong, that can run and move, and have skills are rare. Everyone wants them. X offered the Nova big, but he chose Nova over X. From what I’ve seen on the recruiting sites, X is certainly recruiting bigs, but there is a difference between recruiting and landing. Remember they did have a big, bulky, center from NKY coming, but the kid ran into some legal problems and never made it to school.

[IM4X]

Some believe Miller is the best coach X has ever had...
and some believe it is Mack. So which is it?

Neither. It’s Matta. Yes, that’s right.

Matta is the best coach X has ever had and I might even put Gillen ahead of Miller and Mack (when we are strictly talking about the success of the coach at X compared to the talent they had to work with).

Let’s keep in mind for a second that it was harder for both Matta and Gillen to land recruits than those who followed. Think that Gillen knocked off a Georgetown team with the Twin Towers of Mourning and Mutombo at a time when X wasn’t even yet in the Atlantic 10. People were calling us Egg-Zavier back then and most people didn’t even know where the school was located.

Think about the fact that Matta was the first coach at X to get to the Elite 8 and did it in less years than Miller or Mack. Think that when Matta left, he went on to take 2 of his OSU teams to a Final 4. Sean left our “Buick U” where he thought he could recruit and go further in the tournament at “University of Lexis.” Well he was able to land top 10 classes on a regular basis... but just how many times did he make it to the Final Four??? Oops.

Oh and by the way.... Who has the highest winning percentage at X (and overall) out of Matta, Miller and Mack?
Matta wins again.

Now let’s talk about Mack a second. He got to coach in the Big East where it was a much easier sell to get top 100 players than any of his predecessors. He even would brag (similar to the way Steele does now) that the Big East was the best conference in college basketball. He literally had a team stacked with more talent than any other in the history of X. A team so talented that it ended up as a # 1 seed in the tournament.
Now let’s remember just how well he coached that team in the tournament. People can say he was not mentally there. Let’s call it what it was: The biggest choke job in the history of X.
:thumbsdown:

Then he left for greener pockets, sticking it to X and going on to prove what an absolute douche bag he could really be by telling the press that it was “impossible to get to the Final Four with the level of recruits you get at a school like X” and how Louisville in fact had the recruits he “wished he could have had at X.”
:read: :rtfm::sign-wtf:

Oh, how I wished one of the players Mack coached his final year at X would have taken to Twitter with this response:


So happy I chose to play at X - Just a little disappointed our stacked #1 seed team wasn’t a little better prepared as we had as much talent as anyone in the nation and we really should have gotten to the Final Four and beyond for sure. Good luck to Coach Mack as he leaves for Louisville and finally gets to coach the players he ‘wanted but couldn’t get because he was at X.’ LOL. Curious to see how he will throw those players under the bus when he realizes he is still unable to reach a Final 4 during his tenure there.”

Let’s not forget that while at X, Mack was a pompous dick to the press half of the time, frequently threw his players under the bus, and often didn’t admit to much of the blame that he should have owned... and he proved integrity means sh!+ when one’s ego inflates to the size of a Macy’s Day Parade balloon.You know, like when he changed his tune by saying (to anyone who would listen) that “the ACC was by far the best conference in college basketball” and of course that comment about how he “now has what he need to get to a Final 4.” LOL. Well, I‘m betting he’s going to get to as many Final Fours as his old boss Sean has to this point.

Just had to get it out. Honestly, I would have thought all X fans had enough of those two ungrateful weasels with there “I’m just so superior to that little school I just came from” crap... and realize they are very big talkers but not quite the elite coach as they try to sell themselves as. Wright and Few are head and shoulders better... and it is quite possible (with a little time) that Steele turns out to be better than both of them.

[IM4X]

Most of our bigs have come from transfers - like, every single one but one.

Actually two (Ramsey and Free)

But your point stands: We definitely are light on the bigs who are bangers inside. Steele hasnÂ’t made much progress adding weight to Miles in the gym like he talked about needing to get him to do last year.

The recruits coming in next year seem to have some abilities on offense, but donÂ’t appear overly tough in the paint on defense (at least from what I see in their videos) the way Jones or Hankins were.

[XUGRAD80]

Actually two (Ramsey and Free)

But your point stands: We definitely are light on the bigs who are bangers inside. Steele hasnÂ’t made much progress adding weight to Miles in the gym like he talked about needing to get him to do last year.

The recruits coming in next year seem to have some abilities on offense, but donÂ’t appear overly tough in the paint on defense (at least from what I see in their videos) the way Jones or Hankins were.

Actually 3...Free, Ramsey, and Miles are all regular recruits, and not transfers.

The roster listings show Miles at 220 now, I don’t think he was 200 when he came to X (he sure didn’t look like it anyway), Free at 225, Carter at 227, Griffin at 230, and Ramsey at 233. Even Stanley is listed at 230 on his 6’6” frame. Now none of them are 250-260, but they aren’t string beans either. They shouldn’t be getting pushed around. Blocking out is as much technique and anticipation as it is bulk and strength. Even more, it’s toughness and desire.

As far as Miles weight goes.....how is it Steele’s responsibility to add weight to Miles? By all accounts, Xavier has one of the top weight and conditioning coaches in the country. They have excellent dietitians. But some people just don’t gain weight. That doesn’t mean they can’t be strong, fit, and tough. He may never get above 225-230 lbs because that may be his natural weight. I’m sure the dietitians and conditioning coaches are doing all THEY can do to make him as big and fit as they can.

[drudy23]

Yeah, last thing I want is a Xavier coach to look at the most successful program in the last 10 years and try to model itself after that.

Well then we're going to need to drastically upgrade our recruiting profile. We're not getting the talent Villanova is getting. That certainly helps in running their style when you get NBA caliber wings every year.

[drudy23]

Actually 3...Free, Ramsey, and Miles are all regular recruits, and not transfers.

The roster listings show Miles at 220 now, I don’t think he was 200 when he came to X (he sure didn’t look like it anyway), Free at 225, Carter at 227, Griffin at 230, and Ramsey at 233. Even Stanley is listed at 230 on his 6’6” frame. Now none of them are 250-260, but they aren’t string beans either. They shouldn’t be getting pushed around. Blocking out is as much technique and anticipation as it is bulk and strength. Even more, it’s toughness and desire.

As far as Miles weight goes.....how is it Steele’s responsibility to add weight to Miles? By all accounts, Xavier has one of the top weight and conditioning coaches in the country. They have excellent dietitians. But some people just don’t gain weight. That doesn’t mean they can’t be strong, fit, and tough. He may never get above 225-230 lbs because that may be his natural weight. I’m sure the dietitians and conditioning coaches are doing all THEY can do to make him as big and fit as they can.

Yet of those 4 listed at 225 or higher, 2 played on the perimeter 80% of the game, one played 6 minutes, and the last had as many minutes as me against the biggest and most physical team in the league. Our answers were KyKy and Kunkel - that sounds as dumb as it was.

[XUGRAD80]

Yet of those 4 listed at 225 or higher, 2 played on the perimeter 80% of the game, one played 6 minutes, and the last had as many minutes as me against the biggest and most physical team in the league. Our answers were KyKy and Kunkel - that sounds as dumb as it was.

Which proves the point that it’s NOT size that they are lacking...it’s toughness and desire to fight down low.

The TRICK is to find players that are tough enough and have the willingness to fight on the boards, AND ALSO have the ability to move, score, and defend outside the lane. Last couple of years Xavier has had plenty of the former, but none (other than possibly Marshall) ALSO had the latter abilities. So now X has several that seem to have the latter abilities, a couple that may have the former(but really haven’t shown it consistently) and none that seem to have both.

But it’s not because of lack of size. It’s not because of lack of recruiting “bigs”.

[XUGRAD80]

Well then we're going to need to drastically upgrade our recruiting profile. We're not getting the talent Villanova is getting. That certainly helps in running their style when you get NBA caliber wings every year.

Great, we’ll just change the name on the Jersey’s to something else and open up the vaults. Xavier is what they are, and they are NOT a blue blood school with a long history of basketball success on a national level that reaches back into the 1940’s and 1950’s. They are not located in one of the largest cities in the Untied States. They are not a state school. They are a small, private, church run university that for most of its history has played 2nd fiddle to a public university in its own home town. Yet somehow they have managed to get a top 25 recruiting class the last 2 years. They have won league championships multiple times. They have made very good runs in the NCAA tournament. They have sent multiple players to the NBA and other pro leagues. And they have graduated every player that stayed for 4 years. Maybe this is as good as it gets for X. Maybe not. I don’t expect anyone here to be satisfied with what they have accomplished, but maybe some of us have forgotten how to appreciate it all the same? I want that F4 more than almost anything else in the world. 50 years of fandom. We’ve been so close I can almost taste it. I imagine what it will feel like and tears start welling up in my eyes. At the same time, I can also think back on where they have come from, how bad it was when Stack first got to X, and I feel nothing but pride for what they have accomplished. Yeah, I can live with that. I want that F4, but I no longer feel I need it.

[Xavier]

Well then we're going to need to drastically upgrade our recruiting profile. We're not getting the talent Villanova is getting. That certainly helps in running their style when you get NBA caliber wings every year.

Not trying to be a smartass here, I don't know much about Villanova before X joined the Big East. I thought they always liked going guard heavy, with a high emphasis on shooters everywhere. Did his style change drastically? If you are trying to model yourself after Villanova you have to start somewhere, Obviously Villanova wasn't getting this type of talent the whole time but like I said- they may have drastically changed once they started getting more successful?

[xavierj]

Not trying to be a smartass here, I don't know much about Villanova before X joined the Big East. I thought they always liked going guard heavy, with a high emphasis on shooters everywhere. Did his style change drastically? If you are trying to model yourself after Villanova you have to start somewhere, Obviously Villanova wasn't getting this type of talent the whole time but like I said- they may have drastically changed once they started getting more successful?

You can look back and see that Villanova wasn’t reeling in a bunch of 5 stars. From 2010 on they didn’t have a top 20 class until 2018, which was #9 and then in 2019 it was #5, followed by a class with zero signees. From 2010 to 2018 they had classes ranked 41, 45 and 48. So it think people get confused on the guys they have brought in. It does look like Jay Wright obviously brought in guys that fit his system and they have developed players well. I think it took Wright awhile to get the system and players he wanted in place and it has worked out well for him and Villanova in the long run.

[XUGRAD80]

it does look like jay wright obviously brought in guys that fit his system and they have developed players well. I think it took wright awhile to get the system and players he wanted in place and it has worked out well for him and villanova in the long run.

exactly

[Xville]

You can look back and see that Villanova wasnÂ’t reeling in a bunch of 5 stars. From 2010 on they didnÂ’t have a top 20 class until 2018, which was #9 and then in 2019 it was #5, followed by a class with zero signees. From 2010 to 2018 they had classes ranked 41, 45 and 48. So it think people get confused on the guys they have brought in. It does look like Jay Wright obviously brought in guys that fit his system and they have developed players well. I think it took Wright awhile to get the system and players he wanted in place and it has worked out well for him and Villanova in the long run.

Sorry but this is baloney. You conveniently started with 2010, when in the 09 class they had the 4th best recruiting class in the country with a couple of mcdonald all americans, in 2006 when they had a top 15 class after coming off a final four Scottie Reynolds Mcd all american. Heck in 2002, they had one of the top classes in the country with a mcd all american in Fister, Foye who was top 40, Ray who was top 70. in 12 and 13 overall their classes weren't ranked high but that has more to do with the quantity over the quality. 12 they got two top 60 guys in Ochefu and Arch who you may have heard of, and in 13 they got Hart and Jenkins who were top 80 guys.

Yeah they weren't Kentucky, Kansas, Duke but they have outrecruited X for a very long time. Imagine bringing in Scruggs, Odom type talent or better every year, that's basically what Nova has done for 20 plus years consistently.

If Xavier ever hopes to get to that level, they have to recruit better and more consistent every year. The 22 class is paramount....they have another 21 class, and X is going to be stuck in this mediocrity average BE team for the foreseeable future.

[drudy23]

Which proves the point that it’s NOT size that they are lacking...it’s toughness and desire to fight down low.

The TRICK is to find players that are tough enough and have the willingness to fight on the boards, AND ALSO have the ability to move, score, and defend outside the lane. Last couple of years Xavier has had plenty of the former, but none (other than possibly Marshall) ALSO had the latter abilities. So now X has several that seem to have the latter abilities, a couple that may have the former(but really haven’t shown it consistently) and none that seem to have both.

But it’s not because of lack of size. It’s not because of lack of recruiting “bigs”.

Is it toughness, or the coach mis-managing the roster and game minutes? Honest question - not trying to be a smart-ass either, but my lack of faith in Steele makes this a legit question in my eyes. I'm pretty sure Free is tough as nails.

Was he standing at the 3 point line most of the game because he was a wimp, or did his coach put him there?

[drudy23]

I think most people think we're right on the cusp of Villanova, talent and coaching wise - that's not the case.

That's the next significant step up this program needs to prove it can get to. Before we even get there, we need to be a consistent top quarter team in the league. We're kind of hanging out in the middle right now.

The program has the tools to be better than middle of the pack.

[Xville]

I think most people think we're right on the cusp of Villanova, talent and coaching wise - that's the case.

That's the next significant step up this program needs to prove it can get to. Before we even get there, we need to be a consistent top quarter team in the league. We're kind of hanging out in the middle right now.

The program has the tools to be better than middle of the pack.

When i see or hear this, I bet Villanova thinks of X, as X thought of Dayton when their fans believed and said this. X is so far and away from Villanova might as well be X and Dayton.

[drudy23]

When i see or hear this, I bet Villanova thinks of X, as X thought of Dayton when their fans believed and said this. X is so far and away from Villanova might as well be X and Dayton.

I meant to say that's NOT the case. Edited.

And I agree with the Dayton comparison.

[Xavier]

To be clear, I have been questioning Steele the whole time and only recently did I see any hope that he can get Xavier to the next step (well, to where Mack had them). We are far, FAR, away from Villanova. I mean, I don't actually think X can get to that level....at least anytime soon, and I don't think Steele can be the one to do that.

The program has the tools that they should be top quarter team in the league and make the tournament every season. Its why if Steele missed the tournament again this year- he'd have one last season to prove himself.

[drudy23]

Missing the tournament 3 years in a row (we weren't making it last year) is unacceptable.

[XUGRAD80]

Is it toughness, or the coach mis-managing the roster and game minutes? Honest question - not trying to be a smart-ass either, but my lack of faith in Steele makes this a legit question in my eyes. I'm pretty sure Free is tough as nails.

Was he standing at the 3 point line most of the game because he was a wimp, or did his coach put him there?

I remember in the SH game seeing many times where X had players in rebounding position, but they didn’t box out and the SH players ended up getting the rebound. Is that coaching? I can’t imagine that it is because this was NOT a problem the last couple of years and it’s the same coaches. Or is it toughness, desire, and experience on the part of the players? Well the players are different and the coaches are not, so draw your own conclusions.

[MHettel]

good gawd.....this is some Trump rationalization here. If Steele would have said any of this junk in his press conference, he would have and should have immediately been canned. Thankfully, he has some sense of the game and his players and know that rebounding and toughness were a serious problem.

You're way off base. The comments by BandDad were nuts-on. You cant rebound a made shot. And defensive rebounds usually outnumber offensive rebounds by about 3:1. And 3 pt misses come off the rim differently than 2's. And missed FTs are almost ALWAYS a defensive rebound. There is ALOT of nuance that goes into the absolute rebound totals for a game. To discount that is pretty ignorant.

With that said, it you are a coach and talking to your team, then it's ALWAYS EFFORT. That's the only thing a PLAYER can control, and the coach is reminding the PLAYER of that fact. But the reality is the rebounding outcome of the game is determined by FAR more factors.

[MHettel]

Wright and Few are head and shoulders better... and it is quite possible (with a little time) that Steele turns out to be better than both of them.

Dude you are on Crack. Wright has 2 NCs. Few has over 600 wins and countless accolades and accomplishments. Few has coached for 21 years and has 21 NCAA tourney appearances. Few averages 28.5 wins per season and has an 83% winning percentage.

Realistically, Steele's lackluster first 2 years have already put him impossibly behind Mark Few. In theory, Steele could win 2 NCs. And in Theory so could I.

It is completely beyond any rational thought to believe that Steele is on a trajectory to ever sniff the accomplishements of those 2. And I'm not knocking Steele. 99% of the NCAA D1 coaches are in the same boat. Those guys are top shelf.

[Masterofreality]

Sorry but this is baloney. You conveniently started with 2010, when in the 09 class they had the 4th best recruiting class in the country with a couple of mcdonald all americans, in 2006 when they had a top 15 class after coming off a final four Scottie Reynolds Mcd all american. Heck in 2002, they had one of the top classes in the country with a mcd all american in Fister, Foye who was top 40, Ray who was top 70. in 12 and 13 overall their classes weren't ranked high but that has more to do with the quantity over the quality. 12 they got two top 60 guys in Ochefu and Arch who you may have heard of, and in 13 they got Hart and Jenkins who were top 80 guys.

Yeah they weren't Kentucky, Kansas, Duke but they have outrecruited X for a very long time. Imagine bringing in Scruggs, Odom type talent or better every year, that's basically what Nova has done for 20 plus years consistently.

If Xavier ever hopes to get to that level, they have to recruit better and more consistent every year. The 22 class is paramount....they have another 21 class, and X is going to be stuck in this mediocrity average BE team for the foreseeable future.

In 2000 (2001?) we granted Kyle Lowery to Nova. Sean Miller wanted Lowery. Lowery wanted Xavier. Matta took Church Odia on recommedation of Steele's Brother. A huge mistake that still resonantes.

[Xville]

You're way off base. The comments by BandDad were nuts-on. You cant rebound a made shot. And defensive rebounds usually outnumber offensive rebounds by about 3:1. And 3 pt misses come off the rim differently than 2's. And missed FTs are almost ALWAYS a defensive rebound. There is ALOT of nuance that goes into the absolute rebound totals for a game. To discount that is pretty ignorant.

With that said, it you are a coach and talking to your team, then it's ALWAYS EFFORT. That's the only thing a PLAYER can control, and the coach is reminding the PLAYER of that fact. But the reality is the rebounding outcome of the game is determined by FAR more factors.

No I'm not off base. He was trying to rationalize the huge disparity by saying the hall just made all kinds of shots and xavier just didnt have that many chances, which is ridiculous. Seton hall only made 6 more field goals than xavier yet beat them in rebounding by an absurd number. Steele pointed this out in post game, I'll trust a d 1 coaches perspective more than you or bandaids

[IM4X]

Dude you are on Crack. Wright has 2 NCs. Few has over 600 wins and countless accolades and accomplishments. Few has coached for 21 years and has 21 NCAA tourney appearances. Few averages 28.5 wins per season and has an 83% winning percentage.

Realistically, Steele's lackluster first 2 years have already put him impossibly behind Mark Few. In theory, Steele could win 2 NCs. And in Theory so could I.

It is completely beyond any rational thought to believe that Steele is on a trajectory to ever sniff the accomplishements of those 2. And I'm not knocking Steele. 99% of the NCAA D1 coaches are in the same boat. Those guys are top shelf.


Ha. No-no-no! I wasn’t referring to Wright and Few. I would be on crack. Reread what I wrote before and after those words. I was making the point that “Wright and Few are head and shoulders better (than Mack and Miller)” but I was alluding to Mack and Miller when I suggesting Steele could (in time) actually end up being better than both of them.

Wright and Few are as good as you get in college basketball. The absolute best. I have been big on both of them far before they achieved the level of success they have reached. My point of my post was that I don’t get the love for Mack and Miller - who -while solid coaches - are nowhere near the elite level of Few and Wright.

[XUGRAD80]

Thought his decision to go to a zone was the difference in the SJU game. First time this year they played it extensively and it kept SJU from driving and scoring. Props to him for being willing to try something he normally wouldn’t do.

[GIMMFD]

Ha. No-no-no! I wasn’t referring to Wright and Few. I would be on crack. Reread what I wrote before and after those words. I was making the point that “Wright and Few are head and shoulders better (than Mack and Miller)” but I was alluding to Mack and Miller when I suggesting Steele could (in time) actually end up being better than both of them. Wright and Few are as good as you get in college basketball. The absolute best. I have been big on both of them far before they rescue the level of success they have reached. My point of my post was that I don’t get the love for Mack and Miller - who while solid coaches are nowhere near the elite level of Few and Wright.

I'd take Steele being better than Mack and Miller in a heart beat, that's two coaches above a 70% win percentage (obviously with A-10 influence compared to Big East), 3-4 Sweet 16s, 1 Elite 8 from Mack, along with 4 conference championships, along with a Sweet 16 and Elite 8 from Miller. Their body of work is really good, they won games, and helped keep pushing X above what they took the program over at, and I think that's the main indicator of why we are so enamored by those guys, sure the blueprint, culture, tradition was built long before that (Gillen, Prosser, etc.) but each hire so far has brought X to new heights.

What we're missing is the last 2%, right? Well, Steele busts his ass recruiting, hired a good staff that likes to recruit, so there's half the battle, now it's the CEO work, the program showing signs of improvement, Steele showing he can handle in-game adjustments, mental aspects of a roster, etc. Obviously the first few seasons have been underwhelming, but Chris Mack also had that period from 2012 to 2014 where the Fire Chris Mack thread was getting a lot of traction, and that's year 4 through year 6 for Mack. As of right now, I believe Steele has shown improvement as the head man, I think this team is way more fun to watch, though still prone to head scratching, frustrating moments, and because X has been elevated through each change, it's a bit tougher to keep in mind Steele is a young, newly minted head coach. It also doesn't help having to figure it out against Big East competition opposed to Fordham, Duquesne, Dayton, etc. There are some damn good coaches in the Big East, ones that are going to take Steele to the woodshed and teach him by fire, but I do think he's learning. It's year 3, I think we have an NCAA Tournament team this year, Steele's already beaten Nova once (though we'd all love it more consistently), I don't think it's as doom and gloom as these past few painful years have been. I mean hell, I'll take these frustrations over the praying Brandon Randolph turns into the second coming of Chris Paul any day of the week.

[IM4X]

I'd take Steele being better than Mack and Miller in a heart beat, that's two coaches above a 70% win percentage (obviously with A-10 influence compared to Big East), 3-4 Sweet 16s, 1 Elite 8 from Mack, along with 4 conference championships, along with a Sweet 16 and Elite 8 from Miller. Their body of work is really good, they won games, and helped keep pushing X above what they took the program over at, and I think that's the main indicator of why we are so enamored by those guys, sure the blueprint, culture, tradition was built long before that (Gillen, Prosser, etc.) but each hire so far has brought X to new heights.

What we're missing is the last 2%, right? Well, Steele busts his ass recruiting, hired a good staff that likes to recruit, so there's half the battle, now it's the CEO work, the program showing signs of improvement, Steele showing he can handle in-game adjustments, mental aspects of a roster, etc. Obviously the first few seasons have been underwhelming, but Chris Mack also had that period from 2012 to 2014 where the Fire Chris Mack thread was getting a lot of traction, and that's year 4 through year 6 for Mack. As of right now, I believe Steele has shown improvement as the head man, I think this team is way more fun to watch, though still prone to head scratching, frustrating moments, and because X has been elevated through each change, it's a bit tougher to keep in mind Steele is a young, newly minted head coach. It also doesn't help having to figure it out against Big East competition opposed to Fordham, Duquesne, Dayton, etc. There are some damn good coaches in the Big East, ones that are going to take Steele to the woodshed and teach him by fire, but I do think he's learning. It's year 3, I think we have an NCAA Tournament team this year, Steele's already beaten Nova once (though we'd all love it more consistently), I don't think it's as doom and gloom as these past few painful years have been. I mean hell, I'll take these frustrations over the praying Brandon Randolph turns into the second coming of Chris Paul any day of the week.

I don’t deny Miller and Mack were good for the X program- they were very good for the program. I just think they both got a little full of themselves when they departed X (Mack was a bit full of himself even while at X). I also never want any X fan to forget Mack left telling his new program that he couldn’t get to a final four because he was at X and couldn’t get the players he wanted. What an dick move to make the school where he just coached and the (#1 seed) team he just coached the excuse for why he did not reach a Final Four. No... Mack You had the talent- your coaching was the weak link!

He couldn’t get X to a final four and he’s not getting Louisville there either - just like Miller hasn’t been able to get there with all the elite level talent he brings in at Arizona. Only Matta for his new program there (twice).

Steele has done well with recruiting shooters and playmakers. He still has a bit of work to do when it comes to coaching. He said he would see an improved defense after last game, but it still looked pretty darn bad against SJs. Come on coach. The team was a mess in the first half: Forcing quick, bad shots all over the place. The team settled down a bit in the second half but many of the lineups looked out of sync. It is on him to get it fixed. I hope he can. There weren’t too many other BE opponents X would have beaten playing like they did tonight. We’re very fortunate SJ didn’t shoot well. By the way, what is going on with our guards and their shooting?

Thank goodness players like Jones and Odom and Carter stepped up late and showed some grit. I still don’t like how our bigs are spending so much time on the perimeter on offense. It is not helping us... especially when it comes to offensive rebounding.

[xavierj]

I don’t deny Miller and Mack were good for the X program- they were very good for the program. I just think they both got a little full of themselves when they departed X (Mack was a bit full of himself even while at X). I also never want any X fan to forget Mack left telling his new program that he couldn’t get to a final four because he was at X and couldn’t get the players he wanted. What an dick move to make the school where he just coached and the (#1 seed) team he just coached the excuse for why he did not reach a Final Four. No... Mack You had the talent- your coaching was the weak link!

He couldn’t get X to a final four and he’s not getting Louisville there either - just like Miller hasn’t been able to get there with all the elite level talent he brings in at Arizona. Only Matta for his new program there (twice).

Steele has done well with recruiting shooters and playmakers. He still has a bit of work to do when it comes to coaching. He said he would see an improved defense after last game, but it still looked pretty darn bad against SJs. Come on coach. The team was a mess in the first half: Forcing quick, bad shots all over the place. The team settled down a bit in the second half but many of the lineups looked out of sync. It is on him to get it fixed. I hope he can. There weren’t too many other BE opponents X would have beaten playing like they did tonight. We’re very fortunate SJ didn’t shoot well. By the way, what is going on with our guards and their shooting?

Thank goodness players like Jones and Odom and Carter stepped up late and showed some grit. I still don’t like how our bigs are spending so much time on the perimeter on offense. It is not helping us... especially when it comes to offensive rebounding.

I think Steele actually coached a good game last night. He knew the shots were not falling so he went with a different lineup, that was not great shooters, but better at attacking, rebounding and playing defense. He didn’t just continue to play the same way but made adjustments that won the game. Decided to sit both Johnson and Freemantle. Also went zone, which really frustrated St Johns and took away the lane. You have to give him credit for figuring out the best way to win in the middle of a game where they had to adjust their normal playing style to win. Also as far as defense goes, through 11 games Xavier is holding opponents to 31% from 3, so they do a nice job pressuring the wing, but struggle with allowing guys to get to the basket. If Xavier had that guy that just bullied guys trying to score at the rim and reject some shots, that would be a huge help. Because if you are pressuring the ball out top and the wings, you will be susceptible of allowing guys in the lane, but need better help defense and rim protection. All in all last night was ugly, but thought Travis did a nice job navigating them to find a way to win when your normal stuff wasn’t working. A team that can win playing different styles is a good thing and sign of good coaching in my opinion.

[AviatorX]

There is a growing segment of this board that seems to be calling for Xavier to play slower and play through the post. Huge no thanks from me. We saw that the last two seasons and it sucked. It is not winning basketball, especially when you have a roster like the one X does right now. I would much much rather see Steele take the higher ceiling perimeter oriented approach.

[bleedXblue]

There is a growing segment of this board that seems to be calling for Xavier to play slower and play through the post. Huge no thanks from me. We saw that the last two seasons and it sucked. It is not winning basketball, especially when you have a roster like the one X does right now. I would much much rather see Steele take the higher ceiling perimeter oriented approach.

We have NO athleticism in the post.

I agree until you cant hit the broad side of a barn for 3 straight games.

[XUGRAD80]

There is a growing segment of this board that seems to be calling for Xavier to play slower and play through the post. Huge no thanks from me. We saw that the last two seasons and it sucked. It is not winning basketball, especially when you have a roster like the one X does right now. I would much much rather see Steele take the higher ceiling perimeter oriented approach.

Agree.....I think that much of this stems from the past history of success that X has had playing that style. However, right now X doesn't have the players to play that style, AND it's not a style of play that seems to lead to post season success for any teams. Right now X is going through growing pains as they move from one style to another. The roster is not yet where it can play either style consistently well. They lack a truly dominate low post player and the perimeter players are mostly young and inexperienced. It may be a bit rocky for awhile with highs (Oklahoma) and lows (SH) happening regularly, but I think in the long run X will be most successful by moving to a more open style of play. For one thing, it seems to be the style of play that most high school players are more familiar with and enjoy more. That will help X in its recruiting because there will be both a larger pool of players familiar with playing that style, and it will appeal to a larger pool of potential recruits.

[drudy23]

There's a middle ground. The games we lost we basically chucked up a bunch of 3's - that's not going to get it done.

Free and our other bigs are capable enough to at least establish some sort of post presence to enable some better shots. I don't think anyone is saying we need to move to the Patrick Ewing style of offense.

In the games we shot well, the ball popped all over the floor. In the games we didn't, we settled for 3's outside of any decent offensive rhythm. That's the difference.

[drudy23]

There is a growing segment of this board that seems to be calling for Xavier to play slower and play through the post. Huge no thanks from me. We saw that the last two seasons and it sucked. It is not winning basketball, especially when you have a roster like the one X does right now. I would much much rather see Steele take the higher ceiling perimeter oriented approach.

That's not what people are saying at all.

And how did we play that way last year? Every possession went through Naji last year.

[Xville]

There's a middle ground. The games we lost we basically chucked up a bunch of 3's - that's not going to get it done.

Free and our other bigs are capable enough to at least establish some sort of post presence to enable some better shots. I don't think anyone is saying we need to move to the Patrick Ewing style of offense.

In the games we shot well, the ball popped all over the floor. In the games we didn't, we settled for 3's outside of any decent offensive rhythm. That's the difference.

Yep completely agree. It is balance that most of us want, and doing what the game and opponent dictates. Last night was ugly basketball but at least when the shots weren't falling, x started pounding it inside instead of just chucking 3 after 3

[drudy23]

Yep completely agree. It is balance that most of us want, and doing what the game and opponent dictates. Last night was ugly basketball but at least when the shots weren't falling, x started pounding it inside instead of just chucking 3 after 3

Indeed - we never made an adjustment against Seton Hall. We just kept chucking 3's, even before it was out of reach.

Every team will have nights when the shots aren't falling. You can still win those games with solid execution, good coaching, good defense and smart basketball.

The change to zone was smart, but I'm still not sure how we played the first 15 minutes of the game in man when it was obvious we couldn't guard them in transition. Against a good team, that game would have been over in the first half. That's where coaching has to recognize some of this earlier (or in the gameplan), and make adjustments.

[Xville]

The game Sunday looms extremely large, I hate to say must win this early, but it almost is...with the following two games @Seton Hall and @UConn, really can't afford to lose to Providence at home. Very real possibility that if that happens, the team digs itself a hole they wont be able to climb out of in conference.

[Smails]

Indeed - we never made an adjustment against Seton Hall. We just kept chucking 3's, even before it was out of reach.

Every team will have nights when the shots aren't falling. You can still win those games with solid execution, good coaching, good defense and smart basketball.

The change to zone was smart, but I'm still not sure how we played the first 15 minutes of the game in man when it was obvious we couldn't guard them in transition. Against a good team, that game would have been over in the first half. That's where coaching has to recognize some of this earlier (or in the gameplan), and make adjustments.

Because you play your core defense until it's shown to be ineffective. You just don't abandon it after a few easy buckets. It's not like SJ was completely thrashing us in the first half. They scored 27 points and the game was tied. When it came to winning time, Steele made the adjustment and we won the game. The shots weren't falling so he went to a more slashing lineup and left the chuckers on the bench. From my seat he recognized what was happening on both ends of the court and adjusted both sides accordingly. What the hell else do people want?

[drudy23]

Because you play your core defense until it's shown to be ineffective. You just don't abandon it after a few easy buckets. It's not like SJ was completely thrashing us in the first half. They scored 27 points and the game was tied. When it came to winning time, Steele made the adjustment and we won the game. The shots weren't falling so he went to a more slashing lineup and left the chuckers on the bench. From my seat he recognized what was happening on both ends of the court and adjusted both sides accordingly. What the hell else do people want?

I thought he waited too long. Against a good team, we're in a deep hole with that first half.

No, you just don't abandon your core defense after a few easy buckets. Did I say that?

He also did nothing to adjust in the Seton Hall game.

[Smails]

I thought he waited too long. Against a good team, we're in a deep hole with that first half.

No, you just don't abandon your core defense after a few easy buckets. Did I say that?

He also did nothing to adjust in the Seton Hall game.

Yeah, but you said the first 15 minutes of the game. You have to give it some time to play out, and he did. I don't give AF when the adjustments are made as long as they lead to the win, and that's exactly what happened last night. I'm not qualified to say what 'might' happen against a different team and neither are you. Every game is its own animal and should be treated as such. His offensive and defensive adjustments helped win the game. He coached a good game last night. You want to keep harping on Seton Hall, knock yourself out. I'll enjoy the W and look forward to the next challenge.

[drudy23]

Yeah, but you said the first 15 minutes of the game. You have to give it some time to play out, and he did. I don't give AF when the adjustments are made as long as they lead to the win, and that's exactly what happened last night. I'm not qualified to say what 'might' happen against a different team and neither are you. Every game is its own animal and should be treated as such. His offensive and defensive adjustments helped win the game. He coached a good game last night. You want to keep harping on Seton Hall, knock yourself out. I'll enjoy the W and look forward to the next challenge.

As I've said before, previous personnel, game-planning, and adjustment decisions have led to my distrust in Steele, not because I just don't like him.

If this was the first time (or second or third) it happened, it would be a non-issue. He's earned the second-guessing imo. More in-game adjustments that lead to success, especially against good teams, will lead to less scrutiny. People aren't just all of a sudden giving him grief just to give him grief.

[AviatorX]

That's not what people are saying at all.

And how did we play that way last year? Every possession went through Naji last year.

Tyrique Jones (who was a good player, but not someone you want to build an offense around) used a significant amount of possessions last year (basically the same amount as Naji). Despite all the bellyaching on here, last year's team actually shot a very low percentage of three's relative to total field goal attempts. You're never going to be a threat in March playing offense that way.

My point is I can see the vision of what Steele wants, and I'm willing to live through the growing pains despite the fact that I know there will be significant ups and downs because X doesn't have a roster full of can't miss talent. I don't think the approach needs to be recalibrated game to game. I don't think you win big in college basketball micromanaging and doing that. I'm sure you'll say what you're suggesting doesn't represent that (and it might not, I'm not specifically debating you but more of a general school of thought). At some point to take the next step it needs to be "do what we do" in my opinion.

[RetireFiftyTu]

I think Steele actually coached a good game last night. He knew the shots were not falling so he went with a different lineup, that was not great shooters, but better at attacking, rebounding and playing defense. He didnÂ’t just continue to play the same way but made adjustments that won the game. Decided to sit both Johnson and Freemantle. Also went zone, which really frustrated St Johns and took away the lane. You have to give him credit for figuring out the best way to win in the middle of a game where they had to adjust their normal playing style to win. Also as far as defense goes, through 11 games Xavier is holding opponents to 31% from 3, so they do a nice job pressuring the wing, but struggle with allowing guys to get to the basket. If Xavier had that guy that just bullied guys trying to score at the rim and reject some shots, that would be a huge help. Because if you are pressuring the ball out top and the wings, you will be susceptible of allowing guys in the lane, but need better help defense and rim protection. All in all last night was ugly, but thought Travis did a nice job navigating them to find a way to win when your normal stuff wasnÂ’t working. A team that can win playing different styles is a good thing and sign of good coaching in my opinion.

In the first half, Xavier had 39 FGA. 31 shots from 2 point range and 8 shots from 3 point range. 9 free throw attempts.
In the second half, Xavier had 25 FGA. 21 shots from 2 point range and 4 shots from 3 point range. 25 free throw attempts.

The lineup that made a run and made the difference was Odom, Scruggs, Jones, Carter, and Griffin. That's Xavier's 3 best penetrators/guys that can attack the basket. It was clear the shots weren't falling from anybody. Only 18.8% of Xavier's shots came from 3 last night, 16% in the second half. That's by far the lowest of the season. From the perimeter spots Steele put in his best drivers. Johnson subbed out with 16:37 left and didn't come back in until the game was decided. Tandy didn't play in the second half. Kunkel played only 5 minutes. Seemed to me like an effort was made to play the guys who will attack the basket. Xavier also gets more rebounding and defense out of Odom and Jones than Kunkel, Tandy, and Johnson. Good call from Steele. That's probably not Xavier's best lineup going forward but it worked tonight. If Johnson, Kunkel, and Tandy are hitting shots they should definitely be playing good minutes. But if they aren't Odom and Jones provide much better value.

[MADXSTER]

In the first half, Xavier had 39 FGA. 31 shots from 2 point range and 8 shots from 3 point range. 9 free throw attempts.
In the second half, Xavier had 25 FGA. 21 shots from 2 point range and 4 shots from 3 point range. 25 free throw attempts.

The lineup that made a run and made the difference was Odom, Scruggs, Jones, Carter, and Griffin. That's Xavier's 3 best penetrators/guys that can attack the basket. It was clear the shots weren't falling from anybody. Only 18.8% of Xavier's shots came from 3 last night, 16% in the second half. That's by far the lowest of the season. From the perimeter spots Steele put in his best drivers. Johnson subbed out with 16:37 left and didn't come back in until the game was decided. Tandy didn't play in the second half. Kunkel played only 5 minutes. Seemed to me like an effort was made to play the guys who will attack the basket. Xavier also gets more rebounding and defense out of Odom and Jones than Kunkel, Tandy, and Johnson. Good call from Steele. That's probably not Xavier's best lineup going forward but it worked tonight. If Johnson, Kunkel, and Tandy are hitting shots they should definitely be playing good minutes. But if they aren't Odom and Jones provide much better value.

Props for a great post

[Masterofreality]

In the first half, Xavier had 39 FGA. 31 shots from 2 point range and 8 shots from 3 point range. 9 free throw attempts.
In the second half, Xavier had 25 FGA. 21 shots from 2 point range and 4 shots from 3 point range. 25 free throw attempts.

The lineup that made a run and made the difference was Odom, Scruggs, Jones, Carter, and Griffin. That's Xavier's 3 best penetrators/guys that can attack the basket. It was clear the shots weren't falling from anybody. Only 18.8% of Xavier's shots came from 3 last night, 16% in the second half. That's by far the lowest of the season. From the perimeter spots Steele put in his best drivers. Johnson subbed out with 16:37 left and didn't come back in until the game was decided. Tandy didn't play in the second half. Kunkel played only 5 minutes. Seemed to me like an effort was made to play the guys who will attack the basket. Xavier also gets more rebounding and defense out of Odom and Jones than Kunkel, Tandy, and Johnson. Good call from Steele. That's probably not Xavier's best lineup going forward but it worked tonight. If Johnson, Kunkel, and Tandy are hitting shots they should definitely be playing good minutes. But if they aren't Odom and Jones provide much better value.

Well done. This is expert level analysis.
I very much like the lineup with Dwon and Colby in there. Griff provides a presence inside. Scruggy provides Senior leadership. I don’t know what was up with Free last night but he was in the clouds somewhere so Carter was the better option.
I’m not saying take Free out as a starter but, Griff with his inside presence, though limited offensively (sort of like Jason Love) gives us a needed something.
Nate Johnson has disappeared (An early season mirage?), CJ and KyKy haven’t earned minutes and Ben Stanley is a ? right now. I’m convinced Steele has no idea on how to utilize Kunkel (they never screen for him to spot him up for shots). Time to tighten the rotation and figure out some sets, ala Creighton with Zegarowski, to get Kunkel shots.

[Smails]

He's earned the second-guessing imo. .

I totally agree...when it's applicable. He coached a good game last night

[xavierj]

Well done. This is expert level analysis.
I very much like the lineup with Dwon and Colby in there. Griff provides a presence inside. Scruggy provides Senior leadership. I don’t know what was up with Free last night but he was in the clouds somewhere so Carter was the better option.
I’m not saying take Free out as a starter but, Griff with his inside presence, though limited offensively (sort of like Jason Love) gives us a needed something.
Nate Johnson has disappeared (An early season mirage?), CJ and KyKy haven’t earned minutes and Ben Stanley is a ? right now. I’m convinced Steele has no idea on how to utilize Kunkel (they never screen for him to spot him up for shots). Time to tighten the rotation and figure out some sets, ala Creighton with Zegarowski, to get Kunkel shots.

Agree but it’s up to Kunkel to make the shots when he is open. Three wide open looks ended in air balls. He is 1 for his last 10 and many have been great looks. 25% on the year. He has to be 35% plus to be effective.

[Smails]

Agree but it’s up to Kunkel to make the shots when he is open. Three wide open looks ended in air balls. He is 1 for his last 10 and many have been great looks. 25% on the year. He has to be 35% plus to be effective.

I agree.. I thought he had a few really good looks last night and just missed everything. They freed him up on the baseline one time and he had all day to set and launch..he just launched it over the rim. Thank goodness Carter was there with the nice stick-back jam

[boozehound]

I agree.. I thought he had a few really good looks last night and just missed everything. They freed him up on the baseline one time and he had all day to set and launch..he just launched it over the rim. Thank goodness Carter was there with the nice stick-back jam

Definitely. 2 of his 3(!) air balls were good looks. Something was definitely off with him. I don't think I have seen a good shooter badly miss that many times in a single night.

[AviatorX]

A Bryan Griffin / Jason Love (!?) comp and a call to use Adam Kunkel similar to how Creighton uses the BE preseason POY in the same post. If we have a Love and Zegarowski on this roster, X is going to the Final Four for sure.

[GIMMFD]

In the first half, Xavier had 39 FGA. 31 shots from 2 point range and 8 shots from 3 point range. 9 free throw attempts.
In the second half, Xavier had 25 FGA. 21 shots from 2 point range and 4 shots from 3 point range. 25 free throw attempts.

The lineup that made a run and made the difference was Odom, Scruggs, Jones, Carter, and Griffin. That's Xavier's 3 best penetrators/guys that can attack the basket. It was clear the shots weren't falling from anybody. Only 18.8% of Xavier's shots came from 3 last night, 16% in the second half. That's by far the lowest of the season. From the perimeter spots Steele put in his best drivers. Johnson subbed out with 16:37 left and didn't come back in until the game was decided. Tandy didn't play in the second half. Kunkel played only 5 minutes. Seemed to me like an effort was made to play the guys who will attack the basket. Xavier also gets more rebounding and defense out of Odom and Jones than Kunkel, Tandy, and Johnson. Good call from Steele. That's probably not Xavier's best lineup going forward but it worked tonight. If Johnson, Kunkel, and Tandy are hitting shots they should definitely be playing good minutes. But if they aren't Odom and Jones provide much better value.

Great stuff here, the only thing I'd say or tweak if I were Steele would be to trade Tandy's 0 for Kunkel's 5, Tandy has the ability to attack the rim, he's just not great defensively, agreed that Odom and Jones were the right call there, but I'd love for the coaches just to tell Tandy to not fall in love with the three, and try to attack the rim to see if that can help him find his groove.

[xuwillie]

Not a huge steele fan but I think any coach would be caught off guard if the whole team all of a sudden couldn’t shoot. Really strange year so far.

[IM4X]

There's a middle ground. The games we lost we basically chucked up a bunch of 3's - that's not going to get it done.

Free and our other bigs are capable enough to at least establish some sort of post presence to enable some better shots. I don't think anyone is saying we need to move to the Patrick Ewing style of offense.

In the games we shot well, the ball popped all over the floor. In the games we didn't, we settled for 3's outside of any decent offensive rhythm. That's the difference.

This is right on the money.

[IM4X]

I think Steele actually coached a good game last night. He knew the shots were not falling so he went with a different lineup, that was not great shooters, but better at attacking, rebounding and playing defense. He didn’t just continue to play the same way but made adjustments that won the game. Decided to sit both Johnson and Freemantle. Also went zone, which really frustrated St Johns and took away the lane. You have to give him credit for figuring out the best way to win in the middle of a game where they had to adjust their normal playing style to win. Also as far as defense goes, through 11 games Xavier is holding opponents to 31% from 3, so they do a nice job pressuring the wing, but struggle with allowing guys to get to the basket. If Xavier had that guy that just bullied guys trying to score at the rim and reject some shots, that would be a huge help. Because if you are pressuring the ball out top and the wings, you will be susceptible of allowing guys in the lane, but need better help defense and rim protection. All in all last night was ugly, but thought Travis did a nice job navigating them to find a way to win when your normal stuff wasn’t working. A team that can win playing different styles is a good thing and sign of good coaching in my opinion.


The entire team struggled miserably on defense in the first half. Steele did make some adjustments as the fellas looked a little more composed and gave better effort in the second half. Finding a better lineup helped.

[XUGRAD80]

The entire team struggled miserably on defense in the first half. Steele did make some adjustments as the fellas looked a little more composed and gave better effort in the second half. Finding a better lineup helped.

SJU scored 27 points in the 1st half...I hope X struggles on defense like that in every game. :whistle:

[Xavier]

Yeah, they actually scored more in the 2nd half. I think a lot of it was how easy St Johns scored at times in the first half- they didn't seem to have as many wide open lay ups off of cuts in the 2nd half.

[XUGRAD80]

Yeah, they actually scored more in the 2nd half. I think a lot of it was how easy St Johns scored at times in the first half- they didn't seem to have as many wide open lay ups off of cuts in the 2nd half.

agreed...the defense played in the 1st half, and early in the 2nd, was allowing SJU to get to the basket basically unmolested. A lot of that was the lack of help defensive rotation by Freemantle and others. Going to the zone was effective against that because it forced a Xavier big to stay near the basket. However, we shouldn't be fooled into thinking that will work against every team. SJU is filled with players that like to drive the ball to the bucket, but are poor outside shooters. That zone won't be nearly as effective against a good outside shooting team. Against a team with an outside threat, that also has a good low post player (Providence comes to mind), they will need to go back to man to man and will need the frontline players to play much better help defense, or we will probably see a repeat of some past defensive failings. SJU also relies on their defensive pressure to create live ball turnovers, and then they look for easy baskets off those turnovers. Xavier did a pretty good job of limiting SJU from getting a lot of those live ball turnovers, and in the 2nd half did a better job of limiting fast break points by SJU.

[boozehound]

Yeah, they actually scored more in the 2nd half. I think a lot of it was how easy St Johns scored at times in the first half- they didn't seem to have as many wide open lay ups off of cuts in the 2nd half.

To be fair to Xavier - St John's style leads to them getting some easy buckets. It also leads to them turning the ball over a ton.

[nuts4xu]

To be fair to Xavier - St John's style leads to them getting some easy buckets. It also leads to them turning the ball over a ton.

True.

* St John's ranks as the 15th best team in all of college basketball at forcing turnovers.
* They force over 18 TO's per game, and we committed 19 on Wednesday night...right at their average.
* Xavier commits an average of 12 TO's per game, so we were forced into 7 TO's above our average.

[Xville]

The Kenpom defensive rating jumped a ton due to the last game....think X was almost 90the before the game, now sitting at 63. Overall 51

[Masterofreality]

SJU scored 27 points in the 1st half...I hope X struggles on defense like that in every game. :whistle:

If you go back and look at the game again, you'd see that the first half was more of the Johnnies shooting themselves in the foot, and mostly missing, vs any fantastic defense from X.

The thing that turned the game, and I credit Steele for the adjustment, was going to a zone. The zone slowed them down and proved that they couldn't shoot worth a crap. Also, X did a good job in limiting second shots. And I'll give Jason Carter and Brian Griffin, plus Colby for the rebounding improvement because it's hard to match up and box out out of a zone. I don't know if the Johnnies shoot that bad every game, or whether it was because they hadn't played for 17 days, but they were misfiring all over the place. Despite the zone, we still outrebounded them 57-40 with almost zero second shots.

[MHettel]

If you go back and look at the game again, you'd see that the first half was more of the Johnnies shooting themselves in the foot, and mostly missing, vs any fantastic defense from X.

The thing that turned the game, and I credit Steele for the adjustment, was going to a zone. The zone slowed them down and proved that they couldn't shoot worth a crap. Also, X did a good job in limiting second shots. And I'll give Jason Carter and Brian Griffin, plus Colby for the rebounding improvement because it's hard to match up and box out out of a zone. I don't know if the Johnnies shoot that bad every game, or whether it was because they hadn't played for 17 days, but they were misfiring all over the place. Despite the zone, we still outrebounded them 57-40 with almost zero second shots.

The zone is always a great way to slow the game down and reduce the number of downhill drives to the basket. It worked great for us.

The thing that cant be overlooked, however, is that the zone only works if you have enough time to get it set up, which means against a running team like SJU you have to make baskets on the offensive end so they cant get the rebound and run.

So, effective offense is what allowed us to get into the zone. The effective offense came when we started attacking THEIR basket instead of settling for jumpers and 3's.

good coaching in this one.

[xukeith]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but after examining X's resume and examining X's talent, I don't think X can win more than 12 BE conference games. The level of skill and talent for BE games simply is too much.
Guards Scruggs, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher and Johnson are simply not good enough shooters nor drivers to keep defenses honest.

I am pleasantly surprised Freemantle, Carter and Griffin have all done well rebounding the ball.
I suspect Freemantle struggled defensively against SJU.

BE defenses are bothering X perimeter guys.
X's resume has only 1 quality win. That is Oklahoma.
X needs to sweep SJU, Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler to gain at least a 10-10 record.

I really hope I am wrong. Creighton, SH, Villanova, and UConn are just too good.

[Xville]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but after examining X's resume and examining X's talent, I don't think X can win more than 12 BE conference games. The level of skill and talent for BE games simply is too much.
Guards Scruggs, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher and Johnson are simply not good enough shooters nor drivers to keep defenses honest.

I am pleasantly surprised Freemantle, Carter and Griffin have all done well rebounding the ball.
I suspect Freemantle struggled defensively against SJU.

BE defenses are bothering X perimeter guys.
X's resume has only 1 quality win. That is Oklahoma.
X needs to sweep SJU, Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler to gain at least a 10-10 record.

I really hope I am wrong. Creighton, SH, Villanova, and UConn are just too good.

Seton hall is not good. They are a mediocre team in the league that will finish 5-7 place in the league. UConn, x can beat at home. I’d be ecstatic with 12 wins but hoping for 11. That will get x a berth which is all I am concerned with this year. Have to get back there just for the young guys to gain some perspective and experience.

[xavierj]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but after examining X's resume and examining X's talent, I don't think X can win more than 12 BE conference games. The level of skill and talent for BE games simply is too much.
Guards Scruggs, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher and Johnson are simply not good enough shooters nor drivers to keep defenses honest.

I am pleasantly surprised Freemantle, Carter and Griffin have all done well rebounding the ball.
I suspect Freemantle struggled defensively against SJU.

BE defenses are bothering X perimeter guys.
X's resume has only 1 quality win. That is Oklahoma.
X needs to sweep SJU, Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler to gain at least a 10-10 record.

I really hope I am wrong. Creighton, SH, Villanova, and UConn are just too good.

Xavier has only won more than 10 Big East games twice in 7 years. 12 wins would put them at 20-8, 12-8 in conference and wearing white in the first round. 12 wins this year would be the third most a Xavier has ever had in the Big East.

[UCGRAD4X]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but after examining X's resume and examining X's talent, I don't think X can win more than 12 BE conference games. The level of skill and talent for BE games simply is too much.
Guards Scruggs, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher and Johnson are simply not good enough shooters nor drivers to keep defenses honest.

I am pleasantly surprised Freemantle, Carter and Griffin have all done well rebounding the ball.
I suspect Freemantle struggled defensively against SJU.

BE defenses are bothering X perimeter guys.
X's resume has only 1 quality win. That is Oklahoma.
X needs to sweep SJU, Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler to gain at least a 10-10 record.

I really hope I am wrong. Creighton, SH, Villanova, and UConn are just too good.

Tandy has been a disappointment on both counts. That has not been the player he was billed to be and showed flashes last year. I still think Scruggs is improving most of the time. It used to be an offensive foul every third drive and 2 out of three on very few dump offs. He has learned that he doesn't need to bull rush the teeth of a jammed lane all the time. As he learns to hit more midrange and dump when the lane is clogged he will get better on both counts. He has to. If he gets some help, especially driving the lane (Odom and Tandy esp) this will also help him take over more stretches.

[GIMMFD]

Not to be the bearer of bad news but after examining X's resume and examining X's talent, I don't think X can win more than 12 BE conference games. The level of skill and talent for BE games simply is too much.
Guards Scruggs, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher and Johnson are simply not good enough shooters nor drivers to keep defenses honest.

I am pleasantly surprised Freemantle, Carter and Griffin have all done well rebounding the ball.
I suspect Freemantle struggled defensively against SJU.

BE defenses are bothering X perimeter guys.
X's resume has only 1 quality win. That is Oklahoma.
X needs to sweep SJU, Depaul, Georgetown, and Butler to gain at least a 10-10 record.

I really hope I am wrong. Creighton, SH, Villanova, and UConn are just too good.

Depends on our shooting, shoot like the last few games, and we're in trouble, shoot like we did to start the season, and we're in comfortably. So averaging that out, bubble seems to make sense, however we need to get into the tournament. Seton Hall isn't great, think we clip them on the road if we're up to it, UConn is good, but they are beatable. Villanova and Creighton are definitely top dogs, but I think we can hold our own in the top 3-5 spots. I don't agree with Johnson not being a good enough shooter to keep defenses honest, before this little slump Johnson went 4/6 against Marquette, 7/9 against Oklahoma, hit both against Cincinnati, he's basically a career 40% shooter from behind the three, not sure what more you want from him. Wilcher has played 21 minutes, with only 4 attempts from deep, pretty early to call it on him. Obviously this shooting slump is concerning, but it's a law of averages, guys will get to where they should be. I'm not worried about the outside shooting ability, I think it'll come back, this is the best team from deep we've had in a few years.

[noteggs]

Xavier has only won more than 10 Big East games twice in 7 years. 12 wins would put them at 20-8, 12-8 in conference and wearing white in the first round. 12 wins this year would be the third most a Xavier has ever had in the Big East.

Interesting stat and was unaware. However, we do have 2 more tries to get there this year and moving forward.

[American X]

Miller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mack

Not really sure I could even comprehend an argument to the contrary. Particularly given that everything he did was without the benefit of being in the Big East. 2008 is still our best team ever.

Correct and Mack is a douche.

[Masterofreality]

Don't forget that we were within a Bradley free throw of losing. Also we had to go to OT vs Eastern Kentucky. We were Number 1 in KenPom luck fro a reason. That being said, see below.



I'm willing to just chalk up the Seton Hall game as a payback when we went to The Hall last year and, probably, had no business winning that game with almost the same kind of performance that the Hall put on us. We were smoking hot that game, and The Hall was not good that day. Maybe just Karma evening out?

Even though this team is 8-2, I just keep having this feeling that the season could still go either way. Was the early season shooting a mirage? Will this team's defense and rebounding get better? Can Steele figure out rotations that work and not just throw guys out there willy nilly?
I'm convinced that there had better be a rotation tightening. Too many non-productive minutes. Like we've said before, there are no participation trophies.

I'm just going back and reviewing old threads from last season.
The same stuff keeps coming up this year too!!
I know. I'm driving myself insane. :-(

By the way, the "Travis Discussion" Thread from last year, that Muskie closed is a fun one too.
The exact same questions and issues were brought up by numerous posters last year as have resurfaced this year.
Rinse Repeat.

[Final4]

^^^ Broken Record

[Masterofreality]

^^^ Broken Record

Thanks for agreeing!!!
Yes. Travis Steele's late season performance.
Which, by the way, you were critical of last year.

[Final4]

^^^ Dead Horse

[Masterofreality]

^^^ Dead Horse

Like Xavier’s season is once again becoming.
Keep going………

[xukeith]

^^^ Dead Horse

Everyone loves whiners, nay sayers and bitches.

[xuwillie]

Everyone loves whiners, nay sayers and bitches.

I don't think you can call it nay sayers, they pretty much have stunk for 4 years. But yes a lot of bitching and whining which I think is appropriate at this point

[XU 87]

Steele definitely deserves criticism. I just think it's odd that a so-called Xavier fan would take the time to find a year old thread so he could he could proclaim, "See, see. I told you last year Steele isn't a good coach. I was right."

That's just kind of a strange thing to do. It comes across as though you're rooting for X to lose so you can come on a message board and proclaim, "I was right!! Steele sucks!!!"

I have a lot of criticisms of Steele. But I'm still hoping he and the team finish this season out strong, and I'm still rooting for Steele and the team to do well.

[Masterofreality]

Steele definitely deserves criticism. I just think it's odd that a so-called Xavier fan would take the time to find a year old thread so he could he could proclaim, "See, see. I told you last year Steele isn't a good coach. I was right."

That's just kind of a strange thing to do. It comes across as though you're rooting for X to lose so you can come on a message board and proclaim, "I was right!! Steele sucks!!!"


I have a lot of criticisms of Steele. But I'm still hoping he and the team finish this season out strong, and I'm still rooting for Steele and the team to do well.

I’ll be sitting in Cintas at 3:00pm on Saturday with my Xavier gear on in one of my 3 Season Ticket seats yelling my lungs out.
I hope you will be too?

The point of this was, if you read through this year old thread, is the same issues that lots of posters on this thread pointed out a year ago are still unresolved.
Growth and progression? You decide.

[bjf123]

I’ll be sitting in Cintas at 3:00pm on Saturday with my Xavier gear on in one of my 3 Season Ticket seats yelling my lungs out.
I hope you will be too?

The point of this was, if you read through that thread, is the same issues that lots of posters on that thread pointed out a year ago are still unresolved.
Growth and progression? You decide.

My wife and I will be in our seats.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[XU 23]

Thank God MOR went back and dug up one of his old posts. I couldn't remember what his opinion of Travis Steele was.

[xukeith]

Do some fans believe Steele instructed Nunge to commit his 5th foul and not knowing it’s a flagrant under a minute and dead ball foul (2 free throws and the ball)

[Masterofreality]

Thank God MOR went back and dug up one of his old posts. I couldn't remember what his opinion of Travis Steele was.

Unfortunately there were two other posters that I was responding to their quotes that don’t appear.
Aga the point is that there have been issues pointed out by many over different seasons that still exist.
Will This Coach ever adjust?

[Masterofreality]

Do some fans believe Steele instructed Nunge to commit his 5th foul and not knowing it’s a flagrant under a minute and dead ball foul (2 free throws and the ball)

Welp. He wouldn’t answer a direct question from Adam Baum about it. Sooooo????

[drudy23]

Do some fans believe Steele instructed Nunge to commit his 5th foul and not knowing it’s a flagrant under a minute and dead ball foul (2 free throws and the ball)

The thought definitely crossed my mind. It's certainly a believable theory.

Signs point to that being the case. If true, not a notch on the credibility ladder for Steele.

[Final4]

Steele definitely deserves criticism. I just think it's odd that a so-called Xavier fan would take the time to find a year old thread so he could he could proclaim, "See, see. I told you last year Steele isn't a good coach. I was right."

That's just kind of a strange thing to do. It comes across as though you're rooting for X to lose so you can come on a message board and proclaim, "I was right!! Steele sucks!!!"

I have a lot of criticisms of Steele. But I'm still hoping he and the team finish this season out strong, and I'm still rooting for Steele and the team to do well.

Precisely. I think he’s gotten so far out over his skis with his criticism that he’s now constantly looking for validation. Hell, in a thread the other day he was quoting and responding to HIMSELF. And if that’s not pathetic enough he responds to your challenge of his “fandom” by stating that he’ll be there Saturday in his THREE seats. Like you should be impressed that he has THREE cheap seats.

Everyone is disappointed. Everyone would like to see some changes, some growth, some progress. But I guess I have a different view. I DESPERATELY want Travis to succeed for two reasons. Firstly, I honestly believe that if he is successful here he would never leave. He could be our Mark Few. I think continuity and stability our important elements to elite programs. Secondly, it could get worse. We replace Travis with a bad hire, reset the clock for another 4 or 5 years and ultimately find ourselves looking very much like DePaul.

[XUGRAD80]

Precisely. I think he’s gotten so far out over his skis with his criticism that he’s now constantly looking for validation. Hell, in a thread the other day he was quoting and responding to HIMSELF. And if that’s not pathetic enough he responds to your challenge of his “fandom” by stating that he’ll be there Saturday in his THREE seats. Like you should be impressed that he has THREE cheap seats.

Everyone is disappointed. Everyone would like to see some changes, some growth, some progress. But I guess I have a different view. I DESPERATELY want Travis to succeed for two reasons. Firstly, I honestly believe that if he is successful here he would never leave. He could be our Mark Few. I think continuity and stability our important elements to elite programs. Secondly, it could get worse. We replace Travis with a bad hire, reset the clock for another 4 or 5 years and ultimately find ourselves looking very much like DePaul.

You can’t always get what you want….no matter how DESPERATE you are.

I have absolutely NO faith that he will change or improve. I really believe that after a decade plus as an assistant and 4 years in the big chair, he is what he is.
But what he is, isn’t working. We can be assured of more of the same, or we can roll the dice on the hopes that it will improve. X has done this many times in the past. They could have been satisfied with the status quo, but they decided to bring Bob Stack in. When he left they brought Gillen in. And so on and so on. MOST were not Xavier people and had no Xavier ties, and they worked out well. After so many good hires, one bad hire is no reason to get cold feet and to be afraid to make a change. I would have loved to see Steele succeed. But it has not happened and I see no reason to believe that anything is going to change in that regard between now and March 30.

[Masterofreality]

Precisely. I think he’s gotten so far out over his skis with his criticism that he’s now constantly looking for validation. Hell, in a thread the other day he was quoting and responding to HIMSELF. And if that’s not pathetic enough he responds to your challenge of his “fandom” by stating that he’ll be there Saturday in his THREE seats. Like you should be impressed that he has THREE cheap seats.

Everyone is disappointed. Everyone would like to see some changes, some growth, some progress. But I guess I have a different view. I DESPERATELY want Travis to succeed for two reasons. Firstly, I honestly believe that if he is successful here he would never leave. He could be our Mark Few. I think continuity and stability our important elements to elite programs. Secondly, it could get worse. We replace Travis with a bad hire, reset the clock for another 4 or 5 years and ultimately find ourselves looking very much like DePaul.

Hahahaha! You are truly hilarious. I really do hate to relay this because it sounds like I’m pumping myself up, but dammit, you keep calling me out, so here goes:
1) I have 3 season seats in the lower bowl that I pay seat license for. Do you?
2) I live 240 miles away, yet still maintain 3 season tickets. Do you?
3). I was invited to sit in on a closed Xavier basketball practice earlier this year. Were you?
4) My donation level to Xavier entitled me to a Xavier bus trip to Butler this year. Does yours?
5) I’m going to New York for the Big East Tournament again this year for the 10th straight year (except last year) I already have my tickets through Xavier. Are and Do you?

Shut up about my fandom and its level. This is all about a guy ( the coach) who has been way out over HIS skis for 3 years and re-upping this thread was designed to show how far with numerous posters pointing out issues.. many that keep repeating with little solution.
This is not about me. Get off your soft chair high horse and get worried about where this program and school are headed.
Damn right I want Steele to finally “get it” because the gamble of many more years of mediocrity would be tough to take.
But stop with your rose colored glasses delusion.
Will I see you in Cintas tomorrow?????

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Precisely. I think he’s gotten so far out over his skis with his criticism that he’s now constantly looking for validation. Hell, in a thread the other day he was quoting and responding to HIMSELF. And if that’s not pathetic enough he responds to your challenge of his “fandom” by stating that he’ll be there Saturday in his THREE seats. Like you should be impressed that he has THREE cheap seats.

Everyone is disappointed. Everyone would like to see some changes, some growth, some progress. But I guess I have a different view. I DESPERATELY want Travis to succeed for two reasons. Firstly, I honestly believe that if he is successful here he would never leave. He could be our Mark Few. I think continuity and stability our important elements to elite programs. Secondly, it could get worse. We replace Travis with a bad hire, reset the clock for another 4 or 5 years and ultimately find ourselves looking very much like DePaul.

Agree with XUGRAD80 100%. Steele is what we thought he was. His decision making has not changed in the last four years. He still shows rigid, sometimes baffling inflexibility in game management, substitution patterns, offensive systems, lack of player development and virtually every other aspect of this program. We've had four years to see him evolve. He has not. If others disagree with my assessment, please enlighten me. He isn't going to suddenly experience an epiphany and turn into someone he is not. The record may change but the man will not.

We should all expect next year to look a lot like the first four. And, Steele will be our coach next year. All this stuff on the board about who can we get to replace him? Can we get Miller back? Is there another Shaka Smart out there to find in the off-season? None of that is going to happen. It is the fantasy of desperate season ticket holders and fans----all of us who love Xavier basketball and who read and post on this board.

We should all expect next year to look a lot like the first four. Academic studies have identified a well-established cognitive bias in all of us to not change the status quo. It reflects loss aversion (like the above-mentioned issue with having to start all over again with a new coach), varies in its intensity from person to person but exists in almost all of us. Is there any one of us who seriously thinks that Christopher (who probably has the highest level of status quo bias in regard to Steele) is going to schedule a sit down with our new President and the BOD (a board that includes Steele's FIL) and ask for several million dollars to buy out Coach Steele's contract; then tell them we need more than that to hire an established winner (or someone we think can become an established winner? Zero chance that happens. Zero.

I do not doubt that next year at this time, Lord willing for those of us who are senior citizens, we will be back on this board talking about the same thing we have discussed for the last four years-----how we desperately want Steele to succeed because we have years invested in him and if he gets the hook now, we have to start all over again.

Awhile back in another thread, our poster in Wichita said he never thought he'd see the day when Georgetown became the patsy of the Big East. What about the day when Xavier becomes the patsy? That occurrence is more likely, with Steele as our coach, than us winning the conference and restoring this program's former success.

[American X]

Awhile back in another thread, our poster in Wichita said he never thought he'd see the day when Georgetown became the patsy of the Big East. What about the day when Xavier becomes the patsy? That occurrence is more likely, with Steele as our coach, than us winning the conference and restoring this program's former success.

This is a massive big picture issue. It felt like there was a window when Xavier could have cemented itself as a top three Big East program and it faded away. Despite the flameouts as #1 and #2 seeds, the trajectory was solidly upward. Even allowing for Steele growing pains, it is hard to say the direction remains the same today.

Now UConn is back in the conference and performing at a high level. Marquette is suddenly very relevant with Shaka Smart. Georgetown is a sleeping giant with the right coaching hire. Same could be said for St. John's if they could get the right coach one of these decades.

Point is that the Big East is filled with programs with the potential to long-term fill out the top five alongside Villanova. The threat of Xavier getting stuck a tier below is very real.

[xukeith]

X still has a strong brand. There is still hope and it shows in the recruiting wars. Players want to win, and be on TV(or streaming devices). Families respect X and recognize it is a good education (students actually go to class)..

X will win next 3 games, and win one BE tourney game . 21-11 record. 7, 8 , 9 or 10 seed.

[Final4]

Hahahaha! You are truly hilarious. I really do hate to relay this because it sounds like I’m pumping myself up, but dammit, you keep calling me out, so here goes:
1) I have 3 season seats in the lower bowl that I pay seat license for. Do you?
2) I live 240 miles away, yet still maintain 3 season tickets. Do you?
3). I was invited to sit in on a closed Xavier basketball practice earlier this year. Were you?
4) My donation level to Xavier entitled me to a Xavier bus trip to Butler this year. Does yours?
5) I’m going to New York for the Big East Tournament again this year for the 10th straight year (except last year) I already have my tickets through Xavier. Are and Do you?

Shut up about my fandom and its level. This is all about a guy ( the coach) who has been way out over HIS skis for 3 years and re-upping this thread was designed to show how far with numerous posters pointing out issues.. many that keep repeating with little solution.
This is not about me. Get off your soft chair high horse and get worried about where this program and school are headed.
Damn right I want Steele to finally “get it” because the gamble of many more years of mediocrity would be tough to take.
But stop with your rose colored glasses delusion.
Will I see you in Cintas tomorrow?????

OMG you just can’t help yourself. I remember awhile ago when you were once again bragging about your level of financial support and another poster suggested that you may want to refrain from playing I’ve got the biggest dick in a room full of strangers. That may still be sound advice today. I will however acknowledge that you truly are the “self anointed” superfan. 240 miles…….I can’t beat that as I only live about 3 miles from campus. Three tickets……..you beat me again as I only have two. Will you see me at Cintas tomorrow? I doubt that we run into each other as my seats are on the side a few rows up from the floor whereas yours are a few rows from the top in section 101 (or was it 102).

[Masterofreality]

OMG you just can’t help yourself. I remember awhile ago when you were once again bragging about your level of financial support and another poster suggested that you may want to refrain from playing I’ve got the biggest dick in a room full of strangers. That may still be sound advice today. I will however acknowledge that you truly are the “self anointed” superfan. 240 miles…….I can’t beat that as I only live about 3 miles from campus. Three tickets……..you beat me again as I only have two. Will you see me at Cintas tomorrow? I doubt that we run into each other as my seats are on the side a few rows up from the floor whereas yours are a few rows from the top in section 101 (or was it 102).

Uh, YOU were the one who called me out about “cheap seats.” Maybe you have (or are) the biggest Dick? I really don’t care, but do you go on road trips to Xavier games? Are you going to New York?
Since you called me out, I gave you my level of financial investment. I could care less what your’s is.
All I know is that I have a significant Financial investment in this program and school way beyond emotional. And for over 3 years the return on that investment has been lousy to date. Steele has a chance to change that trajectory. Some of us will be there to see if he does. Bringing this thread back shows that after 3 years he hasn’t done it yet with the same ‘ol same ‘ol.
Thank you for your support of Xavier basketball. By the way. Can you see that Final 4 from your seats yet?? Is it still 2% away?

[Strange Brew]

Uh, YOU were the one who called me out about “cheap seats.” Maybe you have (or are) the biggest Dick? I really don’t care, but do you go on road trips to Xavier games? Are you going to New York?
Since you called me out, I gave you my level of financial investment. I could care less what your’s is.
All I know is that I have a significant Financial investment in this program and school way beyond emotional. And for over 3 years the return on that investment has been lousy to date. Steele has a chance to change that trajectory. Some of us will be there to see if he does.
Thank you for your support of Xavier basketball. By the way. Can you see that Final 4 from your seats yet?? Is it still 2% away?

I'll be watching the game on Sat. Miss Live Chat. If it still works and people are on it can you send me a line on how to get in?

Go X! Prove us wrong Travis! Look forward to my heavy helping of crow!

[Xavier]

.

Awhile back in another thread, our poster in Wichita said he never thought he'd see the day when Georgetown became the patsy of the Big East. What about the day when Xavier becomes the patsy? That occurrence is more likely, with Steele as our coach, than us winning the conference and restoring this program's former success.

That’s exactly right. Every coaching hire comes with that risk. The A-10 allowed some growing pains for Sean and Mack. They could struggle and still win, or even have the real shot of winning the A-10 (Sean winning four games in four days). Xavier was always a top 2-3 program in the A-10 regardless of a bad season. The big East provides very little wiggle room for a new coach. And if you don’t act quick enough on one(IE- Steele?) you can easily see X falling to the bottom of the league.

I still believe this brand is top 3 in the big East, but becoming Georgetown isn’t out of the question and is unacceptable. Frankly we are already taking the identity of majority of big East teams. Up and down years, make the tournament with no threat to do much damage. I think you can argue X has taken a step back since joining the Big East. It’s an interesting debate, because while the opportunity to be great was there, the chance to fall was too. We are headed in the wrong direction and lost our identity. UConn will come in and become what X had the chance of doing.

[paulxu]

I'm not ready to give up yet on the team or the coach.
Been watching too long, and enjoying the long ride.

[hoopster68]

I'm not ready to give up yet on the team or the coach.
Been watching too long, and enjoying the long ride.

PAULXU: I see no one giving up on the team; many have given up on this coach.

[JTG]

That’s exactly right. Every coaching hire comes with that risk. The A-10 allowed some growing pains for Sean and Mack. They could struggle and still win, or even have the real shot of winning the A-10 (Sean winning four games in four days). Xavier was always a top 2-3 program in the A-10 regardless of a bad season. The big East provides very little wiggle room for a new coach. And if you don’t act quick enough on one(IE- Steele?) you can easily see X falling to the bottom of the league.

I still believe this brand is top 3 in the big East, but becoming Georgetown isn’t out of the question and is unacceptable. Frankly we are already taking the identity of majority of big East teams. Up and down years, make the tournament with no threat to do much damage. I think you can argue X has taken a step back since joining the Big East. It’s an interesting debate, because while the opportunity to be great was there, the chance to fall was too. We are headed in the wrong direction and lost our identity. UConn will come in and become what X had the chance of doing.

We may be on the slide right now, but we did not take a step back since joining the Big East. If we had our current record in the A10 we wouldn't even be in bubble talk. We'd be looking at winning 4 games in 4 days or staying home. We have 14 games against tournament teams. A couple wins and we're not even in play in territory. The right hire and we're right back in business. Look at Marquette, Smart has done a great job. If we continue to falter this year I would bet if we got Miller, he would have us in the top half of the league next year.

[UCGRAD4X]

I still believe this brand is top 3 in the big East, but becoming Georgetown isn’t out of the question and is unacceptable. Frankly we are already taking the identity of majority of big East teams. Up and down years, make the tournament with no threat to do much damage. I think you can argue X has taken a step back since joining the Big East. It’s an interesting debate, because while the opportunity to be great was there, the chance to fall was too. We are headed in the wrong direction and lost our identity. UConn will come in and become what X had the chance of doing.

fuck UC*NT

I agree that X is still a good brand. We want to keep it that way and the fear is that Travis is dragging it down.

I also agree that the best thing overall would be for Steele to 'get it' finally and go deep.

I also agree that the chance of that happening, due to 4 years of data points, extrapolates otherwise.

I also agree that if he doesn't (which seems likely) a new hire might mean two steps backwards. But if it is followed by three steps forward and a further upward trajectory, it will be well worth the change.

[XUGRAD80]

ESPN has dropped X down to an 8 seed. That’s approaching bubble position for an at-large school.

[xudash]

X still has a strong brand. There is still hope and it shows in the recruiting wars. Players want to win, and be on TV(or streaming devices). Families respect X and recognize it is a good education (students actually go to class)..

X will win next 3 games, and win one BE tourney game . 21-11 record. 7, 8 , 9 or 10 seed.

I'm with you on this.

Beyond Steele's stubbornness when it comes to line-ups and substitutions, the one thing I want to focus on here is the seemingly lack of ability to reconcile - on my part - how it is that these guys really do seem to like one another and stick together, while otherwise not getting it into their collective heads that a conference such as the Big East requires 40 minutes of focused, intense play every game out.

I truly hope they go 3-0 the next three games to closeout the regular season.

Give us 1 W - at least - in MSG.

Then it will be fascinating to watch how these guys respond in the NCAAT - when there are no more tomorrows should unfocused play and lazy passes, et al rule the day.

[GoMuskies]

If we win two more games, not only will Steele be back, but he's going to have to get an extension. I'm not sure I'm thrilled by that notion, but he has to be able to recruit.

[hydmuskie]

http://https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-men-college-basketball

This list is from 2020.

While regarding the problem it's best to determine if you have a solution better than what you have right now.

That list is not that old... who would you want from that list? No one there is an automatic upgrade from Steele.

I look at all the coaches in the BE - arguably the 3rd best conf in the country - other than Jay Wright - who would you trade Steele for? I just don't see an instant upgrade who would realistically come to XU.

So while I see a young coach struggling to string it all together - I don't know that I want to get ANOTHER young coach who has to learn on the job...

Which brings us back to Miller - who is intriguing....

[noteggs]

I'm not ready to give up yet on the team or the coach.
Been watching too long, and enjoying the long ride.

Completely agree Paul!

[IM4X]

That’s exactly right. Every coaching hire comes with that risk. The A-10 allowed some growing pains for Sean and Mack. They could struggle and still win, or even have the real shot of winning the A-10 (Sean winning four games in four days). Xavier was always a top 2-3 program in the A-10 regardless of a bad season. The big East provides very little wiggle room for a new coach. And if you don’t act quick enough on one(IE- Steele?) you can easily see X falling to the bottom of the league.

I still believe this brand is top 3 in the big East, but becoming Georgetown isn’t out of the question and is unacceptable. Frankly we are already taking the identity of majority of big East teams. Up and down years, make the tournament with no threat to do much damage. I think you can argue X has taken a step back since joining the Big East. It’s an interesting debate, because while the opportunity to be great was there, the chance to fall was too. We are headed in the wrong direction and lost our identity. UConn will come in and become what X had the chance of doing.

Good post.Good points.

We were probably more like a top 5 the first couple of years in the BE and then took a leap forward during the days of Tre and JP and Farr and Reynolds and Sumner to a top 2/3 spot in the BE and then X began to slide back down after Steele took over. We are probably down to a top 4-6 program now in the BE. We could easily slide further down or slide back up. It is up to Steele.

Steele deserves credit for continuing to find and pull in good recruits/transfers. That has been a strength. We have good enough players to compete for a BE championship. If Steele would just quit some of his approaches that aren’t working now and have never worked since he took over
as head coach: Quit giving extra minutes to players who continually cripple the team and hurt their chance of winning.

He also has to just stop with the “If give my players a green light to shoot open 3s… they are getting good looks… they just aren’t falling.” It’s not that hard. Bad shooters miss more and shouldn’t get the same green light as better shooters.You can’t have players who shoot under 25% from 3 (Hunter, Jones, Free) shooting them like they are like if to go in… they are not. Nate and Adam and Paul should have a Green light - shoot when they have a good look. Nunge should have a yellow light and shoot two or three tops. Everyone else should have a red light unless they are having a “can’t miss” kind of day from everywhere else on the floor. Giving Hunter a green light to launch a 3 when he isn’t even making his layups in the game is not a great strategy.

If Steele ever wakes up to see his stubbornness to keep pushing forward with these bad decisions was very likely the difference between 4-6 more wins for this team, maybe things can get better. I just don’t get how he is saying blind to it.

[GoMuskies]

Coach Steele-ing money amirite?

[XUGRAD80]

I really don’t see how anyone can defend the record that Xavier has had under Steele. This is a results oriented business and no matter what you think about his abilities and/or potential, the results just aren’t there.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Who could possibly be defending him at this point? He is clueless! Free out there jacking up 3's again. Stanley comes in and jacks up a 3. He is so awful as a head coach. When you lose to Kevin Willard 5x in a row you should never be a coach ever!!!

[XU 23]

Cintas home court advantage is gone. That's something we've never seen.

[CP05XU08CU13]

I really don’t see how anyone can defend the record that Xavier has had under Steele. This is a results oriented business and no matter what you think about his abilities and/or potential, the results just aren’t there.

I could not agree more. Basketball is such an integral part of the University. It is essentially what has put the school on the map.
Business is about results. Any CEO who tells the board we missed the mark, but at least we tried would be fired on the spot. It would be different if this was just an off year, but all of Steele’s teams have underperformed.

[Muskie in dayton]

I could not agree more. Basketball is such an integral part of the University. It is essentially what has put the school on the map.
Business is about results. Any CEO who tells the board we missed the mark, but at least we tried would be fired on the spot. It would be different if this was just an off year, but all of SteeleÂ’s teams have underperformed.
The worst part is it keeps getting worse. I canÂ’t even watch them anymore.

[kellernr]

Can we get Matta, Miller and Mack to team up and come back to coach as a group?

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

[XU 23]

What if Steele pulls a Marvin and wins a few games at the end of the year to save his job...

[bjf123]

What if Steele pulls a Marvin and wins a few games at the end of the year to save his job...

He’ll need to get to the Sweet 16 at minimum.


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[Masterofreality]

Hey!! How we doin’ out here??
(Like crap)

[ArizonaXUGrad]

He’ll need to get to the Sweet 16 at minimum.


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They aren’t getting a sweet 16 in the NIT. The ncaa is gone.

[Seven Eighths]

Hire Sean and Archie and head and associate head coaches. I don’t care how it looks.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Worst part is that the best part of the year is finding out about our recruit signings and transfers. The rest is just disappointment.

[Xavier]

Worst part is that the best part of the year is finding out about our recruit signings and transfers. The rest is just disappointment.

I disagree. The best part was the potential they showed. Nunge appeared to be the missing piece. That win over OSU- I thought this team had all the right pieces to be a serious run in March. Big East looked winnable. I guess the best and worst part was the hope that they showed and to be in the position we are in now.


And I still think the pieces were there, it’s been a slow downfall that they haven’t been able to snap out of.

[drudy23]

I disagree. The best part was the potential they showed. Nunge appeared to be the missing piece. That win over OSU- I thought this team had all the right pieces to be a serious run in March. Big East looked winnable. I guess the best and worst part was the hope that they showed and to be in the position we are in now.


And I still think the pieces were there, it’s been a slow downfall that they haven’t been able to snap out of.

Biggest underachievement in Xavier history comparing ceiling to reality?

[OTRMUSKIE]

My buddy said he sat in front on Mrs Steele and she look devastated. I said did she look hot? He said yes.

[bjf123]

My buddy said he sat in front on Mrs Steele and she look devastated. I said did she look hot? He said yes.

I can’t imagine being in her place and hearing the student section cheering for your husband to be fired.


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[Xavier]

My buddy said he sat in front on Mrs Steele and she look devastated. I said did she look hot? He said yes.

Wow great insight thank you for sharing

[X-band '01]

So has Steele been downgraded to aluminum or tin?

#AskingForAFriend

[American X]

So has Steele been downgraded to aluminum or tin?

#AskingForAFriend

Hoodie

[UCGRAD4X]

My buddy said he sat in front on Mrs Steele and she look devastated. I said did she look hot? He said yes.

At least someone in that family understands how bad it is. Mr. Steele does not seem to notice or he would change something. Comments from the coach after the game such as "We gotta play better", "We need to stop doing the things we do badly and start doing the things we do well more" (paraphrasing) does not seem to apply to coaches.

I don't even remember what the last comment Byron made was about because Steele's kind of a broken record, but his comment was some sort of "(that's) going to change, you can bet on that."

Comment Choice:
1st: "Bullshit! No it isn't!"
2nd: "I'm not sure you even know what the hell is wrong much less how to fix it."
3rd: "We've heard it before. Show us or STFU"
4th: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....fuck!"

(oh yeah) "Man!"

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Upon waking up, I am disappointed that Steele is still the coach. I expect the same. Did that second Georgetown game get scheduled? If not we go 0-3 to finish the year. Maybe pull off a senior night win.

[bjf123]

Upon waking up, I am disappointed that Steele is still the coach. I expect the same. Did that second Georgetown game get scheduled? If not we go 0-3 to finish the year. Maybe pull off a senior night win.

He’s not going to get fired this late in the season. The way things are trending, he only has three games left, SJU, GU, and a Wednesday game in the BET.

I’m curious what kind of discussions the powers that be at X are having today about the students chanting “Fire Steele,” the heckling directed at Mrs. Steele, the booing by the fans directed at Travis and the players, and the mass exodus with almost six minutes left in the game. This is uncharted territory for the university.


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[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

He’s not going to get fired this late in the season. The way things are trending, he only has three games left, SJU, GU, and a Wednesday game in the BET.

I’m curious what kind of discussions the powers that be at X are having today about the students chanting “Fire Steele,” the heckling directed at Mrs. Steele, the booing by the fans directed at Travis and the players, and the mass exodus with almost six minutes left in the game. This is uncharted territory for the university.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really interesting question to ponder. You would think they are a little worried, right? But, what if the Admin. doesn't view it as the five-alarm fire that we do? Is it possible that the financial side of Xavier Basketball is doing just fine? After all, aren't the program's revenues pretty stable? Television revenue, I assume, is the major source of funds and nothing X does or doesn't do on the court, is going to affect that revenue stream. Season ticket sales will go on. Maybe at a reduced rate but they will not completely dry up. Posters, like all of us, will remain mad as hell; Drudy will probably have a coronary. But X will go on. What if the biggest threat to that revenue stream comes not from poor on-going performance but rather buying out Steele and hiring his successor (at a presumably significantly higher salary)?

Look at Georgetown. You could take a shotgun to mid-court at Verizon Center during any home game, point it into the stands, pull the trigger and not hit anybody. G.T. has become, and may remain, the patsy of the B.E. (unless we supplant them). I doubt their revenue stream has been reduced all that much in the Patrick Ewing years.

Look I don't know at all. Just speculating. But, sometimes, because most of us on this board identify so closely with Men's basketball, we assume the administration at X feels the same way. What if they don't?

[CP05XU08CU13]

Really interesting question to ponder. You would think they are a little worried, right? But, what if the Admin. doesn't view it as the five-alarm fire that we do? Is it possible that the financial side of Xavier Basketball is doing just fine? After all, aren't the program's revenues pretty stable? Television revenue, I assume, is the major source of funds and nothing X does or doesn't do on the court, is going to affect that revenue stream. Season ticket sales will go on. Maybe at a reduced rate but they will not completely dry up. Posters, like all of us, will remain mad as hell; Drudy will probably have a coronary. But X will go on. What if the biggest threat to that revenue stream comes not from poor on-going performance but rather buying out Steele and hiring his successor (at a presumably significantly higher salary)?

Look at Georgetown. You could take a shotgun to mid-court at Verizon Center during any home game, point it into the stands, pull the trigger and not hit anybody. G.T. has become, and may remain, the patsy of the B.E. (unless we supplant them). I doubt their revenue stream has been reduced all that much in the Patrick Ewing years.

Look I don't know at all. Just speculating. But, sometimes, because most of us on this board identify so closely with Men's basketball, we assume the administration at X feels the same way. What if they don't?

Donations and applications will continue to drop. This goes beyond basketball. When you are competing against other Midwestern Jesuit schools outside of sports you need something to attract students. Xavier does not have the grad programs source of revenue that Creighton, LUC, Marquette and SLU have. Not to mention all the other Catholic schools in the region that have grad programs. I had a great undergraduate education at Xavier, but I can tell you I wouldn’t have even considered the school if it were not for the publicity it received from basketball. Similar to Gonzaga. Solid sports programs add a ton to the student experience. It creates a sense of camaraderie and pride for students and alumni. I am sure the administration gets this on some level.

[X-band '01]

He’s not going to get fired this late in the season. The way things are trending, he only has three games left, SJU, GU, and a Wednesday game in the BET.

I’m curious what kind of discussions the powers that be at X are having today about the students chanting “Fire Steele,” the heckling directed at Mrs. Steele, the booing by the fans directed at Travis and the players, and the mass exodus with almost six minutes left in the game. This is uncharted territory for the university.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They will be required to submit to reflection sessions. Worked well before.

[MHettel]

Really interesting question to ponder. You would think they are a little worried, right? But, what if the Admin. doesn't view it as the five-alarm fire that we do? Is it possible that the financial side of Xavier Basketball is doing just fine? After all, aren't the program's revenues pretty stable? Television revenue, I assume, is the major source of funds and nothing X does or doesn't do on the court, is going to affect that revenue stream. Season ticket sales will go on. Maybe at a reduced rate but they will not completely dry up. Posters, like all of us, will remain mad as hell; Drudy will probably have a coronary. But X will go on. What if the biggest threat to that revenue stream comes not from poor on-going performance but rather buying out Steele and hiring his successor (at a presumably significantly higher salary)?

Look at Georgetown. You could take a shotgun to mid-court at Verizon Center during any home game, point it into the stands, pull the trigger and not hit anybody. G.T. has become, and may remain, the patsy of the B.E. (unless we supplant them). I doubt their revenue stream has been reduced all that much in the Patrick Ewing years.

Look I don't know at all. Just speculating. But, sometimes, because most of us on this board identify so closely with Men's basketball, we assume the administration at X feels the same way. What if they don't?

Dont teams make a pretty good chunk of coin for NCAA appearances and for each game they play? We are headed towards 4 years of nothing. Compared with a long stretch of winning 2-3 games each year. THAT will matter.

[XU 23]

So has Steele been downgraded to aluminum or tin?

#AskingForAFriend

I think he's Travis Tin now. If he stays next year, he'll be Travis Graphite.

[Masterofreality]

I think he's Travis Tin now. If he stays next year, he'll be Travis Graphite.

Did the students actually chant “Fire Travis Steele” yesterday?

[xavierj]

Did the students actually chant “Fire Travis Steele” yesterday?

Well they did chant “Fire Travis”… it was loud and kind of awkward

[D-West & PO-Z]

Did the students actually chant “Fire Travis Steele” yesterday?

"Fire Steele" to be exact. It was short but it was loud and clear.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Well they did chant “Fire Travis”… it was loud and kind of awkward

I thought it was fire "Steele", not that it really matters. It was def loud.

[XUGRAD80]

Really interesting question to ponder. You would think they are a little worried, right? But, what if the Admin. doesn't view it as the five-alarm fire that we do? Is it possible that the financial side of Xavier Basketball is doing just fine? After all, aren't the program's revenues pretty stable? Television revenue, I assume, is the major source of funds and nothing X does or doesn't do on the court, is going to affect that revenue stream. Season ticket sales will go on. Maybe at a reduced rate but they will not completely dry up. Posters, like all of us, will remain mad as hell; Drudy will probably have a coronary. But X will go on. What if the biggest threat to that revenue stream comes not from poor on-going performance but rather buying out Steele and hiring his successor (at a presumably significantly higher salary)?

Look at Georgetown. You could take a shotgun to mid-court at Verizon Center during any home game, point it into the stands, pull the trigger and not hit anybody. G.T. has become, and may remain, the patsy of the B.E. (unless we supplant them). I doubt their revenue stream has been reduced all that much in the Patrick Ewing years.

Look I don't know at all. Just speculating. But, sometimes, because most of us on this board identify so closely with Men's basketball, we assume the administration at X feels the same way. What if they don't?

The BE TV contract with Fox pays each school right around 4 million dollars a year.

If X was to drop attendance by an average of 3,000 @ 25.00 per seat for 15 games, they would drop 1,125,000 in revenue from the seats alone. But add parking, concessions, and gear sales to that number. So yes, TV does pay more than the seat sales total. However that 4 million dollars would not come near to paying all of the expenses that the BB program faces every year. I don’t see how the administration could not be concerned about seeing revenue drop by over a million dollars a year. Keeping Xavier BB an attractive and desired product has to be a top priority for them. It basically supports all of the other sports that the university offers. It attracts students and donations. It attracts attention and publicity to the university. They have to be thinking long term and not just be concerned with the bottom line for one year. I hope that the admin has the insight and foresight to understand that they need to look beyond just what it might cost them for one year, and instead they need to,understand what it might cost them long term.

[drudy23]

Hoodie

Since I'm pretty sure I coined Coach Aluminum, I now like Coach Tin - easier to type out.

Tin is cheaper than aluminum right?

[X-band '01]

Let me dig up my science notes out of storage and I'll get back to you.

[UCGRAD4X]

Let me dig up my science notes out of storage and I'll get back to you.

so you're the one who took notes

[American X]

Since I'm pretty sure I coined Coach Aluminum, I now like Coach Tin - easier to type out.

Tin is cheaper than aluminum right?

...and his "system" is softer than his hoodie.

[drudy23]

Read the latest Adam Baum article about Steeles quotes in his post game presser. Can you say Cronin?

And again, where did all of this talk about the “defensive system” come from?

He lives in an alternate reality.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Since I'm pretty sure I coined Coach Aluminum, I now like Coach Tin - easier to type out.

Tin is cheaper than aluminum right?

I think we’ve moved past Coach Tin to Coach Cardboard and moving quickly toward Coach Tissue Paper

[Xville]

Read the latest Adam Baum article about Steeles quotes in his post game presser. Can you say Cronin?

And again, where did all of this talk about the “defensive system” come from?

He lives in an alternate reality.

Cronin lite or Cronin jr…. Cronin at least can coach a bit and get his teams to the tournament.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Cronin has a Final 4.

[drudy23]

Cronin has a Final 4.

Yeah with a bunch of dudes that can put the ball in the basket.

[xuphan]

Has a coach ever had the student section chanting for him to be fired before at X? I can’t ever recall a time that has happened. Starting to wonder if there is too much damage done for Steele to ever win the fans over again.

[GoMuskies]

Has a coach ever had the student section chanting for him to be fired before at X?

Not since Bob Staak took over. There also has never been a run like this since Bob Staak took over. Skip was starting to get close in the late '90s/early'00s but finally managed that embarrassing NCAA Tournament thrashing by Notre Dame before leaving town of his own accord.

[Masterofreality]

Not since Bob Staak took over. There also has never been a run like this since Bob Staak took over. Skip was starting to get close in the late '90s/early'00s but finally managed that embarrassing NCAA Tournament thrashing by Notre Dame before leaving town of his own accord.

The TRAVIS STEELE SHOW should be fun tonight!
Edit: Last show of the year so they will avoid talking about games and interview Senior players for an hour.
WHAT TIMING!!

[Masterofreality]

Read the latest Adam Baum article about Steeles quotes in his post game presser. Can you say Cronin?

And again, where did all of this talk about the “defensive system” come from?

He lives in an alternate reality.

I read those comments.
Some system. As I said after the game, EVERY team that Xavier plays now has the same game plan. Drive or bully ball their way to the basket. Xavier cannot stop a drive and no one ever helps even when the oppo guy takes 6 seconds in banging his way closer to the rim. Same.Thing. Every. Game!
This is also why I’ve railed about when there is a scouting book on Xavier, we decline. Early in the season, teams like Ohio State didn’t know how Milquetoast are guys are in defending the drive. Now EVERYONE knows.
Still, Steele abjectly refuses to adjust his “system”. Does not spice in a 1-3-1, does not go with a more aggressive double team, hardly ever thinks about a press. Nothing.
Sooooo, teams keep doing the same things because Steele keeps doing the same things.
What an easy game plan. Amazing.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Has a coach ever had the student section chanting for him to be fired before at X? I can’t ever recall a time that has happened. Starting to wonder if there is too much damage done for Steele to ever win the fans over again.

Make the tournament and go on a run (Sweet 16 or further) and most fans will be just fine.

[nuts4xu]

I read those comments.
Some system. As I said after the game, EVERY team that Xavier plays now has the same game plan. Drive or bully ball their way to the basket. Xavier cannot stop a drive and no one ever helps even when the oppo guy takes 6 seconds in banging his way closer to the rim. Same.Thing. Every. Game!
This is also why I’ve railed about when there is a scouting book on Xavier, we decline. Early in the season, teams like Ohio State didn’t know how Milquetoast are guys are in defending the drive. Now EVERYONE knows.
Still, Steele abjectly refuses to adjust his “system”. Does not spice in a 1-3-1, does not go with a more aggressive double team, hardly ever thinks about a press. Nothing.
Sooooo, teams keep doing the same things because Steele keeps doing the same things.
What an easy game plan. Amazing.

"Our system was exposed" -- Travis Steele

[boozehound]

Make the tournament and go on a run (Sweet 16 or further) and most fans will be just fine.

I agree, but I'm not putting a lot of faith in that at this point.

I also think that people would be fine, but still not excited about another season with Steele. His career performance in February is totally abysmal.

[drudy23]

Deep runs absolutely trump not living up to regular season expectations.

I will forget it all with another trip to the Sweet 16/Elite 8.

Now - I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell - but anything is possible when you play teams that aren't familiar with you.

[muskiefan82]

If this is what X looks like when they finally find that "forever" coach, I'll take the stepping stone guys for the rest of time.

[Xuperman]

I agree, but I'm not putting a lot of faith in that at this point.

I also think that people would be fine, but still not excited about another season with Steele. His career performance in February is totally abysmal.

March is much, much worse.

[Masterofreality]

"Our system was exposed" -- Travis Steele

Yup. Like every team’s system is eventually exposed but good coaches throw wrinkles into it (both O and D) to change the oppo up. Like why isn’t there a 1-3-1 option out of this group? You’ve only been practicing since September. What the hell do you do in there for 2 hours plus?

[Masterofreality]

Since I'm pretty sure I coined Coach Aluminum, I now like Coach Tin - easier to type out.

Tin is cheaper than aluminum right?

I’m going with Coach Tin. Tin spelled backwards is NIT. Perfection.

[GoMuskies]

ESPN did a pretty extensive coaches on the hot seat article on the 24th. Nary a mention of Steele. Not even in the section that discussed coaches that were maybe one year from trouble. So either the team is going to turn it around or one of us or ESPN is going to be surprised.

[Xville]

ESPN did a pretty extensive coaches on the hot seat article on the 24th. Nary a mention of Steele. Not even in the section that discussed coaches that were maybe one year from trouble. So either the team is going to turn it around or one of us or ESPN is going to be surprised.

I don’t trust that this administration will make a needed change regardless of what the team does over the next week and a half. They could go 0-3 and still think a change won’t be made.

[Blue Blooded-05]

ESPN did a pretty extensive coaches on the hot seat article on the 24th. Nary a mention of Steele. Not even in the section that discussed coaches that were maybe one year from trouble. So either the team is going to turn it around or one of us or ESPN is going to be surprised.

Expecting ESPN to cover Xavier is like expecting a pulled pork sandwich at a bar mitzvah.

[GoMuskies]

Expecting ESPN to cover Xavier is like expecting a pulled pork sandwich at a bar mitzvah.

This article covered multiple Big East situations and mentioned Jonas as a potential Georgia hire. It went deep into mid and low major basketball. Xavier wasn't left out due to ESPN overlooking Xavier or the Big East.

[xuphan]

I don’t trust that this administration will make a needed change regardless of what the team does over the next week and a half. They could go 0-3 and still think a change won’t be made.

I agree! I think Steele is more likely to get an extension than to be fired regardless as to how the season ends.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I tend to think ESPN is more right than us hopeful of a change.

If we make the tournament there is a 0% chance Steele is let go.

If we don't he should be but I do not have faith he will be.

[Masterofreality]

I got news for ya folks.
This time next year we can just recycle every single take on this website about Steele.
Coach TIN/NIT ain’t gonna be fired.
Christopher doesn’t have the backing or balls and Sedler isn’t fed up enough yet.
HOORAY FOR MEDIOCRE STABILITY!! :-(

[Xville]

I got news for ya folks.
This time next year we can just recycle every single take on this website about Steele.
Coach TIN/NIT ain’t gonna be fired.
Christopher doesn’t have the backing or balls and Sedler isn’t fed up enough yet.
HOORAY FOR MEDIOCRE STABILITY!! :-(

Are you assuming this or is this everything you have heard? Can’t say I’m surprised with the way this administration operates but extremely disappointed. We may turn into the doormat of this league soon enough.

[Masterofreality]

Are you assuming this or is this everything you have heard? Can’t say I’m surprised with the way this administration operates but extremely disappointed. We may turn into the doormat of this league soon enough.

*Whispers
If we lose out completely Sedler may change up but not yet.

[X-band '01]

I got news for ya folks.
This time next year we can just recycle every single take on this website about Steele.
Coach TIN/NIT ain’t gonna be fired.
Christopher doesn’t have the backing or balls and Sedler isn’t fed up enough yet.
HOORAY FOR MEDIOCRE STABILITY!! :-(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbfs6HZDNo

[drudy23]

Tin Man lol

I hate making fun of our coach, but damn, it's been a long 4 years.

[boozehound]

*Whispers
If we lose out completely Sedler may change up but not yet.

Is Sedler the one whose daughter Travis married? I still can't believe we allowed our head basketball coach to be married to a board member's daughter but we wouldn't let Sean Miller hire Archie as an assistant.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Is Sedler the one whose daughter Travis married? I still can't believe we allowed our head basketball coach to be married to a board member's daughter but we wouldn't let Sean Miller hire Archie as an assistant.

No.

But yes, I tend to agree with your overall point.

[drudy23]

No.

But yes, I tend to agree with your overall point.

Or allowed a Board member who's son-in-law was a coach - not sure which happened first. Steele has been here for a long time.

[Masterofreality]

Is Sedler the one whose daughter Travis married? I still can't believe we allowed our head basketball coach to be married to a board member's daughter but we wouldn't let Sean Miller hire Archie as an assistant.

No. Home City Ice Sedler family are the money.
The Coaching position is a Sedler endowment.