Coach Steele

[bleedXblue]

I hope Coach takes a long hard look at some things in the off season. There is room for change and improvement in several areas. He's got to put his mark on this program and up to this point after 2 years........I'm not really sure what he's done to do that? That's not a grenade thrown in his direction..........just an observation.

[xudash]

Fixed. Thank you.

[xavierj]

I hope Coach takes a long hard look at some things in the off season. There is room for change and improvement in several areas. He's got to put his mark on this program and up to this point after 2 years........I'm not really sure what he's done to do that? That's not a grenade thrown in his direction..........just an observation.

I really think he is trying to fix the mess he took over. I know on the surface you wouldn’t think it was a mess but I think it was. Xavier is not a program that can function when you are playing with 1.5 recruiting classes and expect to be successful. You have to hit on a couple of guys every year. When Gates left after Mack left and basically no recruiting class, it’s going to be tough. You also have to take into consideration that half the class that came in with Naji and Paul, Ridder and Harden, were gone as well. I think people expected Travis to work miracles. And what he has done is sign highly rated guys, top 25 classes, in two straight classes and got solid production from two freshman. That doesn’t happen a lot at Xavier. He will most likely sign another top 25 class at Xavier, which in three consecutive classes, has never happened. He is improving recruiting. Wins will come.

[GIMMFD]

Villanova has been a model of consistency for a while now. Jay Wright hasn't had a team shoot less than 70% in a season during his tenure. Another staple is his teams always have a low TO%.

We were 300-something in the country this year in FT% and over 250th in TO%.

A lot of that is Wright's pedigree too, he's got some National Championships under his belt, and some good tournament runs, so it's a little easier to recruit to your style of play once you show it's effective. He's a hard guy to not root for, seems like a genuinely good human, and his teams play a fun style. Which is why I'd love to emulate a program like Villanova, obviously we're Xavier and should look to make our own mark, but having kind of the next level in sight is a good thing. If Nova, a small private school in Philly can do it, it shows Xavier can too with the right resources, leadership, etc.


I really think he is trying to fix the mess he took over. I know on the surface you wouldn’t think it was a mess but I think it was. Xavier is not a program that can function when you are playing with 1.5 recruiting classes and expect to be successful. You have to hit on a couple of guys every year. When Gates left after Mack left and basically no recruiting class, it’s going to be tough. You also have to take into consideration that half the class that came in with Naji and Paul, Ridder and Harden, were gone as well. I think people expected Travis to work miracles. And what he has done is sign highly rated guys, top 25 classes, in two straight classes and got solid production from two freshman. That doesn’t happen a lot at Xavier. He will most likely sign another top 25 class at Xavier, which in three consecutive classes, has never happened. He is improving recruiting. Wins will come.

I agree with this, we've had some terrible roster attrition as of late, I also think unfortunately though that's going to be pretty normal moving forward. With the transfer portal in place, it's much easier for kids to test the waters and see if they can transfer and play somewhere else, etc. Ultimately coaching is a big part of it, but you also have to have talent, and Steele has gotten us in on some pretty damn good recruits the last couple years, and we've locked in some pretty good ones as well. Ultimately, everyone should be striving for constant improvement, and I'm sure Coach Steele is a competitor and is striving for improvement as well.

[XUGRAD80]

Re: past transfers out of the program....have any of them had a significant impact on the programs they transferred to? I can’t think of any, at least none of them that transferred to a high major school. Having said that, I wonder if many of those players just realized that they were never going to get any real playing time over the players that stayed. That leaves me questioning their recruiting in the first place. Now X is probably never going to be a school that can just sit back and pick among all the 5 stars wanting to come play for it. But under Mack X seemed to end up recruiting a lot of prospects and suspects who could be accurately be described as projects or players that were hoped would develop if given time.

[IM4X]

Villanova has been a model of consistency for a while now. Jay Wright hasn't had a team shoot less than 70% in a season during his tenure. Another staple is his teams always have a low TO%.

We were 300-something in the country this year in FT% and over 250th in TO%.

One of the things that rubbed me the wrong way at times during the season was when Steele would suggest in certain post game press conferences that the poor FT shooting or turnovers were not an issue.

It also rubbed me the wrong way when he would say (in response to questions from the press about the team taking so many 3s), “I have no problem with players shooting threes when they are wide open.” My gripe was (is) that players who were not good 3 point shooters were taking most of the shots. Poor shooters taking most of your 3s is like giving the game away. Steele not being tuned into this detail (and not making adjustments) probably cost the team a few games.

I am all for giving him a little more time, but he really needs to quite repeating insignificant info (“We play in the best conference” or “I always tell my guys...”) and shift some of his focus on those small details he is ignoring that will increase his teams chances of winning... like WHO shoots the threes and where they shoot it and... and show players HOW TO and HOW NEVER TO pass a ball. It may sound rudimentary, but I bet Jay Wright would be all over these details in practice if he had these X players and their bad habits.

[JTG]

I really think he is trying to fix the mess he took over. I know on the surface you wouldn’t think it was a mess but I think it was. Xavier is not a program that can function when you are playing with 1.5 recruiting classes and expect to be successful. You have to hit on a couple of guys every year. When Gates left after Mack left and basically no recruiting class, it’s going to be tough. You also have to take into consideration that half the class that came in with Naji and Paul, Ridder and Harden, were gone as well. I think people expected Travis to work miracles. And what he has done is sign highly rated guys, top 25 classes, in two straight classes and got solid production from two freshman. That doesn’t happen a lot at Xavier. He will most likely sign another top 25 class at Xavier, which in three consecutive classes, has never happened. He is improving recruiting. Wins will come.

I don't know that people realize how much Gates departure was a hand grenade thrown into the Xavier program. And I'm sure Steele didn't realize that JP and Bluiett hid the fact that Q was a mediocre pt guard at best. If the stories of fist fights, etc are true, maybe Marshall leaving will be addition by subtraction. I would like to keep Paul though, as I think he could flourish without Naji drama, and Q's apparent issues between his ears. Next year will be the first look at what Steele really wants to do at both ends of the floor.

[IM4X]

Yes, the players share a bunch of the blame for their performance. But, Steele is the coach. It is his job to put together a plan that allows his team to play to their strengths, minimize their weaknesses and do the opposite to our opponents. It is hard to argue that he has done that. Who among us, before this season began, was lamenting "Gee we only have four starters back and that transfer from O.U. who was their best player?" We expected more. First from the players but also from our coach.

My take is that he just isn't yet ready. And that assessment probably applies to the rest of his staff as well. But, like you, there is absolutely no way I support his termination. We all need to give him time to grow into his job. It may be painful. To date, it has been painful. But, if we want a coach to be loyal to us (and, let's face it, we haven't found that coach in recent times), we need to be loyal to him. We've got to show him our commitment so he can grow and become the coach we all want him to be.

Agreed.

My biggest issue with Steele (I touched on this in another thread) is that while he seems so meticulous and detailed on the surface, he actually misses important, key details that are hurting the team’s overall performance: He says “I am okay with players taking the shot if they have a good/open shot from 3” yet he is not paying attention to the fact that bad 3 point shooters were taking most of the shots- which is like wasting offensive possessions and ultimately giving the game away.

He also apparently is not a stickler for teaching players what a good pass is and a bad pass is and he is not a stickler for how players need to move to help teammates who have picked up their dribble. We have seen far too much laziness on offense. Watch Jay Wright’s players (something I have noticed years ago and continue to bring up).

They are all always moving quickly (to the ball, away from defenders, cutting, etc.) and they all know exactly where each other is moving to next. There is a reason Jay’s team’s keep win even during a year when his players are not quite elite. They always hustle. They know exactly what they are supposed to do and where they are supposed to be. Our guys often look confused on offense. That has got to change.

[XUGRAD80]

Bad teacher? Or poor students? One? Both? Other? I think that many of us think that some of the returning players were very much overrated after they way they finished the 2018-2019 season. And that the incoming freshman class and transfers were also overrated. Because of that, expectations were higher than they should have been. Starting 11-2 against what turned out to be a pretty weak pre-conference schedule fed right into that. I certainly hope that we don’t fall into this trap for the 2020-2021 season.

[GIMMFD]

Bad teacher? Or poor students? One? Both? Other? I think that many of us think that some of the returning players were very much overrated after they way they finished the 2018-2019 season. And that the incoming freshman class and transfers were also overrated. Because of that, expectations were higher than they should have been. Starting 11-2 against what turned out to be a pretty weak pre-conference schedule fed right into that. I certainly hope that we don’t fall into this trap for the 2020-2021 season.

Fair question, and I think we won't know for certain until next year. If we see guys cutting out the dumb shots, turnovers, making smart passes, moving away from/to the ball, etc. we can pin it on poor students, if the same issues arise year after year it's the teacher. I think it's impossible to tell at the particular moment because of scenarios we've discussed at length about Steele and his relationship with the team. I don't know if I would use the word overrated, I think I'd say it was more of being blinded to the deficiencies our roster possessed. The team construction didn't fit very well with each player's individual game, and that definitely contributed to a lot of the problems. I know myself thought that we'd grow into a smarter basketball team, even though a lot of past examples before this year with the roster construction probably said that wasn't going to happen. I also definitely thought Moore, Carter, etc. would be able to help more from the perimeter, and that also didn't happen. Overrated seems a bit harsh, maybe more so, had the "rose colored glasses" on would be how I would explain it.

[noteggs]

Fair question, and I think we won't know for certain until next year. If we see guys cutting out the dumb shots, turnovers, making smart passes, moving away from/to the ball, etc. we can pin it on poor students, if the same issues arise year after year it's the teacher.

Think we have a good case study with KyKy when it comes with turnovers next year. As much of a stud I think he can be, boy did he have a few too many silly traveling TO’s. Sure maturity and experience will also help.

[Masterofreality]

One of the things that rubbed me the wrong way at times during the season was when Steele would suggest in certain post game press conferences that the poor FT shooting or turnovers were not an issue.

It also rubbed me the wrong way when he would say (in response to questions from the press about the team taking so many 3s), “I have no problem with players shooting threes when they are wide open.” My gripe was (is) that players who were not good 3 point shooters were taking most of the shots. Poor shooters taking most of your 3s is like giving the game away. Steele not being tuned into this detail (and not making adjustments) probably cost the team a few games.

I am all for giving him a little more time, but he really needs to quite repeating insignificant info (“We play in the best conference” or “I always tell my guys...”) and shift some of his focus on those small details he is ignoring that will increase his teams chances of winning... like WHO shoots the threes and where they shoot it and... and show players HOW TO and HOW NEVER TO pass a ball. It may sound rudimentary, but I bet Jay Wright would be all over these details in practice if he had these X players and their bad habits.

Yup!!

[Masterofreality]

Agreed.

My biggest issue with Steele (I touched on this in another thread) is that while he seems so meticulous and detailed on the surface, he actually misses important, key details that are hurting the team’s overall performance: He says “I am okay with players taking the shot if they jace a good/open shot from 3” yet he is not paying attention to the fact that bad 3 point shooters were taking most of the shots- which is like wasting offensive possessions and giving the game away.

He also apparently does not a stickler for teaching players what a good pass and a bad pass is and he is not a stickler for how players need to move to help teammates who have picked up their dribble. We have seen far too much laziness on offense. Watch Jay Wright’s players (something I have noticed years again and continue to bring up).

They are all always moving quickly (to the ball, away from defenders, cutting, etc.) and they all know exactly where each player is moving to next. There is a reason Jay’s team’s keep win even during a year when his players are not quite elite. They hustle always. They know exactly what they are supposed to do and where they are supposed to be. Our guys often look confused on offense. That has got to change.

Yup 2

[Masterofreality]

Bad teacher? Or poor students? One? Both? Other? I think that many of us think that some of the returning players were very much overrated after they way they finished the 2018-2019 season. And that the incoming freshman class and transfers were also overrated. Because of that, expectations were higher than they should have been. Starting 11-2 against what turned out to be a pretty weak pre-conference schedule fed right into that. I certainly hope that we don’t fall into this trap for the 2020-2021 season.

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I have to address this. Then I'll crawl back into my hole.
-2 Veteran Players voted by opposing coaches (which means that they'd love to have them) to be among the Top 10 players in the Highest ranked Conference in the Country.
-A 4 Star rated guard who was also a vet that we all know could get a bucket when needed.
-2 freshman voted by opposing coaches to the All freshman team.

Maybe the lesson plan didn't fully address the knowledge needed? Hard to say that the opposing coaches would "overrate" these players. They usually would be biased toward their own players and not toward Xavier's but they voted for them anyway.
If the transfers were overrated, that's on the staff for bringing them in, or not properly preparing them for the step up.

[GIMMFD]

Think we have a good case study with KyKy when it comes with turnovers next year. As much of a stud I think he can be, boy did he have a few too many silly traveling TO’s. Sure maturity and experience will also help.

Agreed, I also wasn't thrilled at his quick 3's that he was launching at the end of the DePaul game either, think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in terms of his growth in the next couple seasons.

[Final4]

-2 Veteran Players voted by opposing coaches (which means that they'd love to have them) to be among the Top 10 players in the Highest ranked Conference in the Country.

That’s really a distorted view. Neither Scruggs nor Naji are NBA caliber players. How many future NBA players will you find out of the top 10 players in the ACC, SEC, BIG, B12, PAC (which you state are lower ranked conferences)?

[IM4X]

Agreed, I also wasn't thrilled at his quick 3's that he was launching at the end of the DePaul game either, think it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in terms of his growth in the next couple seasons.

You thought those shots were bad decisions, I thought they were, most of the X fan base felt they were, Bill Raftery said it on National Tv right after Kyky took the shots... and yet somehow Steele thought (actually said it after the game) that Kyky taking those quick 3s with no teammate near the rim to rebound was a good idea, instead of working it inside (which had been very effective).

If our head coach doesn’t even understand what a good shot is, we can expect at least a few more losses over each of the next few years.

I hope Steele is open and willing to admit some tweaks need to be made to his philosophy. His comments about sticking to “his way” might tell a different story. Even Mack eventually realized he was mistaken about some of his approaches in a game. I hope Steele is open to realizing he too has made some mistakes.

[XUGRAD80]

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I have to address this. Then I'll crawl back into my hole.
-2 Veteran Players voted by opposing coaches (which means that they'd love to have them) to be among the Top 10 players in the Highest ranked Conference in the Country.
-A 4 Star rated guard who was also a vet that we all know could get a bucket when needed.
-2 freshman voted by opposing coaches to the All freshman team.

Maybe the lesson plan didn't fully address the knowledge needed? Hard to say that the opposing coaches would "overrate" these players. They usually would be biased toward their own players and not toward Xavier's but they voted for them anyway.
If the transfers were overrated, that's on the staff for bringing them in, or not properly preparing them for the step up.

Oh I forgot, you where in the meetings, film sessions, and practices too. So you know for a fact what the PLAYERS were being told. And I must not understand that being voted to an All-League team means that you’re a great all round and intelligent player. I thought it usually meant that you put up great statistics. Didn’t realize it was an intelligence award.

Don’t think the Xavier talent was overrated by many in this board? Go back a reread posts from last summer and fall.

But telling a player to take a shot within the confines of the offensive set or principles is not what I would consider abnormal or bad coaching. KyKy was probably their best 3 point shooter. He ran sets to get him open to take at shots from the wing. Goodin certainly stopped taking as many 3 pointers as the season went on. Naji took quite a few at the end of the time clock after they made several passes. They developed sets for Fremantle to shoot 3 pointers after he showed that he could make some. I really didn’t see that many what I would call “forced” 3-pointers happen over the last couple of months. But if nobody can make them consistently, and the opposition knows that they can’t and sags inside to cover the post leaving all of those players open, what do you want them to do? If they try to pass the ball inside against a sagging defense it becomes a turnover. If they drive it becomes a charging foul, and a turnover. How often when they did pass it do Jones was he actually set up on the low block and not double or triple teamed? So they developed plays that allowed their best shooters...KyKY and Zack....to shoot, and their best driver..Naji..to drive. But let’s not forget that the opposing coaches watch film and develop defenses designed to stop those things from happening.

All of these problems are solved by having consistent outside shooters that can beat any defense they see......something this past team lacked.

[mid major]

Think we have a good case study with KyKy when it comes with turnovers next year. As much of a stud I think he can be, boy did he have a few too many silly traveling TO’s. Sure maturity and experience will also help.

If I may an inordinate number of turnovers after a timeout. More so under Steele's watch in comparison to previous coaches. Goodin was also a culprit but he's gone now.

[GIMMFD]

You thought those shots were bad decisions, I thought they were, most of the X fan base felt they were, Bill Raftery said it on National Tv right after Kyky took the shots... and yet somehow Steele thought (actually said it after the game) that Kyky taking those quick 3s with no teammate near the rim to rebound was a good idea, instead of working it inside (which had been very effective).

If our head coach doesn’t even understand what a good shot is, we can expect at least a few more losses over each of the next few years.

I hope Steele is open and willing to admit some tweaks need to be made to his philosophy. His comments about sticking to “his way” might tell a different story. Even Mack eventually realized he was mistaken about some of his approaches in a game. I hope Steele is open to realizing he too has made some mistakes.

I've been trying to figure this out too, because obviously Steele has forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know. I wonder if he's trying to "protect his guys," by not blasting them in the media. I think it all comes back to trying to find the balance between disciplinarian and motivator. I think more established coaches with a pedigree can get away with sort of "blasting" his guys in the media. Look at Roy Williams at UNC for example, he flat out said his team didn't have talent, and it wasn't really talked about that much, however Steele being a first time head coach in his second year saying that could have some bad optics. Ultimately, I'm hoping that this is the case and he's telling the guys in practice to make better decisions, and I agree that hopefully he's reflecting inwards and seeing what he needs to tweak. I think a good head coach has the ability to admit their weaknesses, and make changes in order to continue to grow..

[xuphan]

2021 Moeller Big Man Logan Duncomb is expected to make his college choice this spring. Any idea if Steele can sign this highly rated big man?

[xavierj]

2021 Moeller Big Man Logan Duncomb is expected to make his college choice this spring. Any idea if Steele can sign this highly rated big man?

I think Xavier has as good a chance as any. Either Xavier or Ohio State I would imagine.

[IM4X]

I've been trying to figure this out too, because obviously Steele has forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know. I wonder if he's trying to "protect his guys," by not blasting them in the media. I think it all comes back to trying to find the balance between disciplinarian and motivator. I think more established coaches with a pedigree can get away with sort of "blasting" his guys in the media. Look at Roy Williams at UNC for example, he flat out said his team didn't have talent, and it wasn't really talked about that much, however Steele being a first time head coach in his second year saying that could have some bad optics. Ultimately, I'm hoping that this is the case and he's telling the guys in practice to make better decisions, and I agree that hopefully he's reflecting inwards and seeing what he needs to tweak. I think a good head coach has the ability to admit their weaknesses, and make changes in order to continue to grow..

i complete get what you are saying about steele probably being careful not to look like he is throwing his players under the bus. Still, I am not convinced he said what he said just to protect his player. I am concerned he is sincere in some of his comments and if taken at face value, it suggests his compass is a little off in terms of what good decision making is. I certainly don’t want him acting like Roy Williams who really ought to be blaming himself if in fact he feels the talent was not there on his team this season

If he is telling players in practice to make better decisions, then they either aren’t listening or (more likely) it isn’t being made clear what good and bad passes or shots are. Is Steele more like, “I better never see a lazy pass in a game or everyone is doing a 100 laps. Every pass better be crisp and fast and away from the opponent... and I better always see someone racing to help if a teammate picks up their dribble and needs help.” I don’t know if Steele talks anything like that or is he is more “Hey Paul, that was a bad pass.” All I know is some of his methods are not working with this team and sometimes what he is calling good decision is leaving a lot of us scathing our heads.

So yes, I hope now that the season is over, he does reflect on how he must change his approach to be more effective. What mistakes continued game after game no matter what he said to his players. Hopefully he realizes giving the green light to anyone to shoot 3s whenever they are open is not always going to be the best decision.... and if he really just said that Kyky took a good shot at the end of the DePail game to let Kyky save face, then he really needs to think about a better way of letting Kyky save face, like “It was not a great decision to shoot but I should have made that clear in the timeout.” Personally, I think he did think it was a good idea for Kyky to shoot and was not just being careful not to throw Kykybunder the bus.

[GIMMFD]

i complete get what you are saying about steele probably being careful not to look like he is throwing his players under the bus. Still, I am not convinced he said what he said just to protect his player. I am concerned he is sincere in some of his comments and if taken at face value, it suggests his compass is a little off in terms of what good decision making is. I certainly don’t want him acting like Roy Williams who really ought to be blaming himself if in fact he feels the talent was not there on his team this season

If he is telling players in practice to make better decisions, then they either aren’t listening or (more likely) it isn’t being made clear what good and bad passes or shots are. Is Steele more like, “I better never see a lazy pass in a game or everyone is doing a 100 laps. Every pass better be crisp and fast and away from the opponent... and I better always see someone racing to help if a teammate picks up their dribble and needs help.” I don’t know if Steele talks anything like that or is he is more “Hey Paul, that was a bad pass.” All I know is some of his methods are not working with this team and sometimes what he is calling good decision is leaving a lot of us scathing our heads.

So yes, I hope now that the season is over, he does reflect on how he must change his approach to be more effective. What mistakes continued game after game no matter what he said to his players. Hopefully he realizes giving the green light to anyone to shoot 3s whenever they are open is not always going to be the best decision.... and if he really just said that Kyky took a good shot at the end of the DePail game to let Kyky save face, then he really needs to think about a better way of letting Kyky save face, like “It was not a great decision to shoot but I should have made that clear in the timeout.” Personally, I think he did think it was a good idea for Kyky to shoot and was not just being careful not to throw Kykybunder the bus.

Yeah, I definitely think your theory is most likely right, I was trying to wrap my head around it all. I do like the idea of letting players play "loose" a little bit, rather than the Huggins method of pulling guys and benching them for every mistake. I think the last thing you want is your players frightened, because when they're relaxed, they're going to most likely play better without having the fear of getting benched in the back of their minds. However, that being said, it's been insanely frustrating watching them do dumb things over, and over, with no signs of getting better at it. He improved the defensive intensity, which was great, but he also said before the season it should be a damn good defensive team.

I also wonder what changes he can implement that will be effective, I think if he completely changes into a "hardass" for a lack of better terms, it might rub some guys the wrong way as well. I've said it so many times, but man that balance must be tough to find. I completely agree that if he really is saving face, that it could be worded better, I'm frightened as well that he may believe those were good shots, okay things to say, etc. It's definitely gotta be tough to navigate the waters right now, from everything I understand the assistant is the one that helps to relate to players, and talk with them through things, while as the head coach you make tough decisions and can't always be a "friend" so to speak. There definitely needs to be some film study, gameplan strategy, anything on ways he can try to cut down the mistakes. A low basketball IQ team will always end up hurting themselves more than helping themselves, I wonder what the assistants are suggesting as well. I feel like we have a lot of good coaches on staff, so it's definitely a bit head scratching to see these stupid things occur again and again.

[xu 89]

I think Xavier has as good a chance as any. Either Xavier or Ohio State I would imagine.

The team over in Clifton has a good shot at him too.

[xavierj]

The team over in Clifton has a good shot at him too.

That would surprising.

[JEHARDI]

i complete get what you are saying about steele probably being careful not to look like he is throwing his players under the bus. Still, I am not convinced he said what he said just to protect his player. I am concerned he is sincere in some of his comments and if taken at face value, it suggests his compass is a little off in terms of what good decision making is. I certainly don’t want him acting like Roy Williams who really ought to be blaming himself if in fact he feels the talent was not there on his team this season

If he is telling players in practice to make better decisions, then they either aren’t listening or (more likely) it isn’t being made clear what good and bad passes or shots are. Is Steele more like, “I better never see a lazy pass in a game or everyone is doing a 100 laps. Every pass better be crisp and fast and away from the opponent... and I better always see someone racing to help if a teammate picks up their dribble and needs help.” I don’t know if Steele talks anything like that or is he is more “Hey Paul, that was a bad pass.” All I know is some of his methods are not working with this team and sometimes what he is calling good decision is leaving a lot of us scathing our heads.

So yes, I hope now that the season is over, he does reflect on how he must change his approach to be more effective. What mistakes continued game after game no matter what he said to his players. Hopefully he realizes giving the green light to anyone to shoot 3s whenever they are open is not always going to be the best decision.... and if he really just said that Kyky took a good shot at the end of the DePail game to let Kyky save face, then he really needs to think about a better way of letting Kyky save face, like “It was not a great decision to shoot but I should have made that clear in the timeout.” Personally, I think he did think it was a good idea for Kyky to shoot and was not just being careful not to throw Kykybunder the bus.

Are you really naive enough to think that Steele and his assistants who have played the game at a high level are not clear about what is a good shot or pass? The players know, it is a lack of execution and It was not called out in public but there is no doubt it was in private.

[drudy23]

Did Steele play anywhere?

No judgment either way, just curious if he played in college.

[Masterofreality]

Did Steele play anywhere?

No judgment either way, just curious if he played in college.

Nope

[IM4X]

Yeah, I definitely think your theory is most likely right, I was trying to wrap my head around it all. I do like the idea of letting players play "loose" a little bit, rather than the Huggins method of pulling guys and benching them for every mistake. I think the last thing you want is your players frightened, because when they're relaxed, they're going to most likely play better without having the fear of getting benched in the back of their minds. However, that being said, it's been insanely frustrating watching them do dumb things over, and over, with no signs of getting better at it. He improved the defensive intensity, which was great, but he also said before the season it should be a damn good defensive team.

I also wonder what changes he can implement that will be effective, I think if he completely changes into a "hardass" for a lack of better terms, it might rub some guys the wrong way as well. I've said it so many times, but man that balance must be tough to find. I completely agree that if he really is saving face, that it could be worded better, I'm frightened as well that he may believe those were good shots, okay things to say, etc. It's definitely gotta be tough to navigate the waters right now, from everything I understand the assistant is the one that helps to relate to players, and talk with them through things, while as the head coach you make tough decisions and can't always be a "friend" so to speak. There definitely needs to be some film study, gameplan strategy, anything on ways he can try to cut down the mistakes. A low basketball IQ team will always end up hurting themselves more than helping themselves, I wonder what the assistants are suggesting as well. I feel like we have a lot of good coaches on staff, so it's definitely a bit head scratching to see these stupid things occur again and again.

Sounds like we are on the same page with our thoughts. It will be interesting to see how the new faces and talents coming in next year will change how the team plays and how Steele coaches. Reading about how they supposedly have a high BB IQ.

[mid major]

Nope

I don't think Prosser played either but I sure hope Steele wins more than one tournament game during his tenure at Xavier.

[IM4X]

Are you really naive enough to think that Steele and his assistants who have played the game at a high level are not clear about what is a good shot or pass? The players know, it is a lack of execution and It was not called out in public but there is no doubt it was in private.

Give me a break! Have you actually been watching any of the games this season. I don’t even care that Steele never played hoops in college. When a coach is claiming shots taken are good that everyone including the fans, the press and the color and play by play guys are questioning, that coach might want to be open to the idea of looking at those shots again. You think because Steele got the job as a head coach he must have everything figured out. If he did the team would have at least 5 more wins.

No kidding their has been a lack of execution by the players at times, but when that happens the head coach must own part of the blame for it. You can’t just tell your players to take better shots or not turn the ball over, you’ve actually got to make sure they are executing those things well in practice. The fact that the same bad shots and lazy passes continued game after game says something was not being effectively communicated or taught by Travis and his staff. The buck stops with the head coach and his assistants.

He also must own the loss at DePaul by not pressing at the end or at least not having someone smothering Baldwin during that last play. Steele could have done a number of things better this season. He does get credit for improving the defense, but he has a lot of room to improve on the offensive side of the ball. I hope we see it next year.

[XUGRAD80]

I wonder if the posters that are blaming Steele for players making bad passes and missing open shots are the same ones that credited past players for making shots and overcoming bad coaching by Mack?

[IM4X]

I wonder if the posters that are blaming Steele for players making bad passes and missing open shots are the same ones that credited past players for making shots and overcoming bad coaching by Mack?

Huh?

[joe titan]

I don't think Prosser played either but I sure hope Steele wins more than one tournament game during his tenure at Xavier.

I believe Skip was a member of hoops team @ US Coast Guard Academy.

[Xville]

Huh?

Mack's offense was and still is, not a great offense. It was overcome with a few great players in tre, jp, tu. Watch a few games especially toward the end of Mack's tenure here...it wasnt great o....lots of standing around, weaving up top etc.

[Masterofreality]

Mack's offense was and still is, not a great offense. It was overcome with a few great players in tre, jp, tu. Watch a few games especially toward the end of Mack's tenure here...it wasnt great o....lots of standing around, weaving up top etc.

Yeah, just good enough for an 11-8 NCAA record, Three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8.
Horrible, just Horrible.

Try again. That's ridiculous.

[Xville]

Yeah, just good enough for an 11-8 NCAA record, Three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8.
Horrible, just Horrible.

Try again. That's ridiculous.

Again...overcome by a few great players. You try again.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Not to mention Duke being upset before we had to play them. Mack won strictly on talent not his coaching abilities. Steele will be Xavier’s best coach ever. We rode the storm out now it’s time to reap the rewards. From here on out Xavier will be the team we always wanted it to be under Steele. I have no insight just gut.

[Masterofreality]

Again...overcome by a few great players. You try again.

Ok. You’ve got mad Man Love for a coach who made an NIT last year and can’t get past 19 wins. But to besmirch arguably the best Coach in Xavier history, and a Xavier alumnus who, I think, recruited those players too and worked his offense around them is lunacy. But you do you.

Yep. 11-8 NCAA record. Checks out.

[XUGRAD80]

Mack's offense was and still is, not a great offense. It was overcome with a few great players in tre, jp, tu. Watch a few games especially toward the end of Mack's tenure here...it wasnt great o....lots of standing around, weaving up top etc.

Have to agree with this. Great players can make a coach look better than he actually is. It’s a players game.

Xavier simply missed having great outside shooters this year.....along with being consistently poor free throw shooters. These facts have been well documented. Mack had some great shooters during his tenure, Steele didn’t have this last year, or the prior year. I don’t see how anyone can blame Steele for this deficiency either. Not at this point. Give him a few years and let’s see what HIS recruits are capable of.

[Xville]

Ok. You’ve got mad Man Love for a coach who made an NIT last year and can’t get past 19 wins. But to besmirch arguably the best Coach in Xavier history, and a Xavier alumnus who, I think, recruited those players too and worked his offense around them is lunacy. But you do you.

Yep. 11-8 NCAA record. Checks out.

I dont have mad love for Steele but I also havent gone completely off the rails as you have. Steele is an unknown right now for me because I understand that the roster construction was garbage when he took over. If in two years the product on the court looks like this, fine.

Mack's a douche, and will always be a douche. You complain about steeles lack of movement etc on offense, take a look at Mack's offense throughout pretty much his entire tenure here...its the same damn offense.

[xavierj]

Ok. You’ve got mad Man Love for a coach who made an NIT last year and can’t get past 19 wins. But to besmirch arguably the best Coach in Xavier history, and a Xavier alumnus who, I think, recruited those players too and worked his offense around them is lunacy. But you do you.

Yep. 11-8 NCAA record. Checks out.

If you were fine with flaming out as a number 1 or 2 seed in the first round and also having mediocre seasons in the Big East 3 out of 5 years then knock yourself out. I want better. I don’t care if the last two years were not what I want. If in 2 or 3 years we are set up talent wise to be a contender every year and we start to see the results, it will all be worth it. The Louisville fans are already questioning Mack, as he basically got nothing out of his 6 man recruiting class at Louisville last year, except for Johnson, has one guy signed for 2020 and at least two guys ready to transfer out, one of which is already in the portal. You will be glad Mediocre Mack is gone in a couple of years. But he is good with the media and on Twitter, which seems that is all some people care about.

[CSS85]

Have to agree with this. Great players can make a coach look better than he actually is. It’s a players game.

Xavier simply missed having great outside shooters this year.....along with being consistently poor free throw shooters. These facts have been well documented. Mack had some great shooters during his tenure, Steele didn’t have this last year, or the prior year. I don’t see how anyone can blame Steele for this deficiency either. Not at this point. Give him a few years and let’s see what HIS recruits are capable of.

Since there are no sports available to watch at the present time, I have been checking out the ESPN 30 for 30s I have not seen. One extremely relevant to this entire discussion is "I HATE CHRISTIAN LAETTNER". I would urge people following this thread discussion to watch that episode and determine who was most responsible for the wins that have been attributed to Coach K. Listen to the players and Coach K closely. Where was the leadership coming from? Who held players accountable? Imagine what would have happened had Laettner not made all those shots, and Duke had lost all those big games. Look at coach K's record his first two years at Duke. I'm not saying Steele is the next Coach K, but I think it wise to question whether we should put such a heavy emphasis on assigning all faults to the coach, and virtually all success to the coach.

[XU_Lou]

Ok. You’ve got mad Man Love for a coach who made an NIT last year and can’t get past 19 wins. But to besmirch arguably the best Coach in Xavier history, and a Xavier alumnus who, I think, recruited those players too and worked his offense around them is lunacy. But you do you.

Yep. 11-8 NCAA record. Checks out.

MOaR - you are a total and complete idiot! I thought you weren't going to check on this thread anymore. You still haven't addressed or refuted the series of FACTS that I provided earlier in this thread that clearly shows this team is better than last years. What's wrong, to much reality for you???

According to many post-season brackets, X would've made the tourney!

And BTW, since you brought the subject up, how many years of major college b-ball have you played that make you so much more of an expert than Steele??

You're as irrational as your lowest Dayton or Kentucky fan!

[UCGRAD4X]

MOaR - you are a total and complete idiot! I thought you weren't going to check on this thread anymore. You still haven't addressed or refuted the series of FACTS that I provided earlier in this thread that clearly shows this team is better than last years. What's wrong, to much reality for you???

According to many post-season brackets, X would've made the tourney!

And BTW, since you brought the subject up, how many years of major college b-ball have you played that make you so much more of an expert than Steele??

You're as irrational as your lowest Dayton or Kentucky fan!


As my father-in-law would say, "Ouch, Jesus Ouch!"

[UCGRAD4X]

MOaR - you are a total and complete idiot! I thought you weren't going to check on this thread anymore. You still haven't addressed or refuted the series of FACTS that I provided earlier in this thread that clearly shows this team is better than last years. What's wrong, to much reality for you???

According to many post-season brackets, X would've made the tourney!

And BTW, since you brought the subject up, how many years of major college b-ball have you played that make you so much more of an expert than Steele??

You're as irrational as your lowest Dayton or Kentucky fan!


I also wasn't coming back, but since the name was changed I thought the tenor of the discussion had too.

Clearly that is not the case.

edit: I think I will stick to the light-hearted banter on the politics, climate change and Corona threads.

[boozehound]

Have to agree with this. Great players can make a coach look better than he actually is. It’s a players game.

Xavier simply missed having great outside shooters this year.....along with being consistently poor free throw shooters. These facts have been well documented. Mack had some great shooters during his tenure, Steele didn’t have this last year, or the prior year. I don’t see how anyone can blame Steele for this deficiency either. Not at this point. Give him a few years and let’s see what HIS recruits are capable of.

I mostly agree with this. We lost a lot of close games this year. This would have been a significantly different season if we could have (1) made FT's at a decent clip or (2) had any outside shooting.

I do think that it didn't look like the team was necessarily 'bought in' to Steele at times, which is what concerned me the most.

[Xavier]

I don't think MOR is irrational. He is one of the more reasonable posters. It is hard to disagree with him in regards to the team under performing. I think its both the players and the coaches fault for that. I don't believe MOR puts enough blame on the players- and I think he is expecting a lot by not allowing for growing pains, especially with a top 10 schedule.

Bottom line- we have a new head coach who played one of the toughest schedules X has had and he did a hell of a job turning them into a solid defense. He has had some really good recruiting classes and signs point to that continuing in the future. He has struggled coaching early on- like each of the last two Xavier coaches.

[Masterofreality]

I dont have mad love for Steele but I also havent gone completely off the rails as you have. Steele is an unknown right now for me because I understand that the roster construction was garbage when he took over. If in two years the product on the court looks like this, fine.

Mack's a douche, and will always be a douche. You complain about steeles lack of movement etc on offense, take a look at Mack's offense throughout pretty much his entire tenure here...its the same damn offense.

Oh, you defend Steele all over the place, then you trash him in this post, since allegedly he was Mack's "Offensive Coordinator"?
Holy iish, man, what is it?

"Roster Construction Garbage". Hmm 2 of the Top 10 BE players by Coach Vote, 2 of the All Freshman Team, a 4 star guard who was highly coveted and one of Xavier's best bucket getters this year and two transfers that Steele himself brought in. WTF are you talking about.

And if I'm going off the rails defending the greatest coach by record of any Xavier Coach ever, a Coach who was 11-8 in the NCAA and a Xavier alum, then I don't ever want to be on whatever the hell rail is that you're on. Talk about somebody hating on a guy? I've never anywhere close called Steele a 'douche'. But you'll go there with Mack? GTFOH

[Masterofreality]

I don't think MOR is irrational. He is one of the more reasonable posters. It is hard to disagree with him in regards to the team under performing. I think its both the players and the coaches fault for that. I don't believe MOR puts enough blame on the players- and I think he is expecting a lot by not allowing for growing pains, especially with a top 10 schedule.

Bottom line- we have a new head coach who played one of the toughest schedules X has had and he did a hell of a job turning them into a solid defense. He has had some really good recruiting classes and signs point to that continuing in the future. He has struggled coaching early on- like each of the last two Xavier coaches.

Fair. And I'll leave it at that admitting that I put less on the players than the leader, because he gets highly paid to guide and teach them the correct things and to have the correct setups for success. This staff, IMO, did not do that.

[xudash]

Fair. And I'll leave it at that admitting that I put less on the players than the leader, because he gets highly paid to guide and teach them the correct things and to have the correct setups for success. This staff, IMO, did not do that.

MOR, you are one of our greatest fans, and I have nothing but respect for you. I agree with you (you have convinced me) that this coaching staff has made some bad decisions and did not make appropriate adjustments at key times along the way this year. The defensive set up and execution at the end of the Butler game is the poster child for that.

But please allow me to offer a very apparent poster child for player idiocy: Goodin’s lazy, slow, cross-court pass, during the DePaul game in New York City, which was picked-off, taken down court, and put into the basket against us. THAT cannot be put on the coaching staff. Crap like that happened all season long and in every game. Turnovers drove us insane all season long.

I have to believe that Steele was constantly working on cleaning that up. Unfortunately, whether it was about basketball IQ or “cultural issues” or whatever, it was never achieved at a necessary level.

I think we are all frustrated by the rather frustrating nature by which this past season played itself out.

Last point: as compared to, say, the roster construction of Villanova, I personally do believe that our roster construction caused us severe issues this season, and certainly last season when Steele had to go out and find transfers to fill out the squad.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, you are one of our greatest fans, and I have nothing but respect for you. I agree with you (you have convinced me) that this coaching staff has made some bad decisions and did not make appropriate adjustments at key times along the way this year. The defensive set up and execution at the end of the Butler game is the poster child for that.

But please allow me to offer a very apparent poster child for player idiocy: Goodin’s lazy, slow, cross-court pass, during the DePaul game in New York City, which was picked-off, taken down court, and put into the basket against us. THAT cannot be put on the coaching staff. Crap like that happened all season long and in every game. Turnovers drove us insane all season long.

I have to believe that Steele was constantly working on cleaning that up. Unfortunately, whether it was about basketball IQ or “cultural issues” or whatever, it was never achieved at a necessary level.

I think we are all frustrated by the rather frustrating nature by which this past season played itself out.

Last point: as compared to, say, the roster construction of Villanova, I personally do believe that our roster construction caused us severe issues this season, and certainly last season when Steele had to go out and find transfers to fill out the squad.

And, Dash, we've been through the wars together, and what you say is also fair, in total.
The thing is, there are plays during the season that make every fan of a team, and the coaches of that team, cringe and scratch their heads. It's a fast moving game and no one is perfect. But there are so many examples of coaching deficiency and just flat out lack of awareness and adjustment that can't be excused- especially not from a guy who was "Associate Head Coach" and supposedly primed for this job. The same mistakes kept happening over 32 games. You're a golfer as am I. You know that most mistakes are a result of uncertainty. I am of the strong opinion that many of the continual mistakes we saw this year was because of a lousy offensive scheme that did not clearly teach what options were possibly available when one avenue was shut down. That is clearly on a lack of preparation, of putting some folks in the wrong spots and thereby creating uncertainty leaving guys to their own devices. The same guys who have been chastised for a lack of IQ, were somehow able to execute a fine defensive scheme- except for 8 seconds of the Butler game end. Was that bad IQ or bad preparation/planning/order leaving Baldwin to receive the ball alone and driving up the court unbothered? I'll go to my grave stating that was totally on the coach- and I've talked to many of my former coaching colleagues.
The season is over. Steele will be back next year, hopefully doing some deep study as to how to craft an offense to fit the talents of the players we have.
We were lucky that the season ended when it did. There is a lot to prove, by Steele, Graves, Jackson, Johnson and Hayes. We will see...

[IM4X]

The thing is, there are plays during the season that make every fan of a team, and the coaches of that team, cringe and scratch their heads. It's a fast moving game and no one is perfect. But there are so many examples of coaching deficiency and just flat out lack of awareness and adjustment that can't be excused- especially not from a guy who was "Associate Head Coach" and supposedly primed for this job. The same mistakes kept happening over 32 games. You're a golfer as am I. You know that most mistakes are a result of uncertainty. I am of the strong opinion that many of the continual mistakes we saw this year was because of a lousy offensive scheme that did not clearly teach what options were possibly available when one avenue was shut down. That is clearly on a lack of preparation, of putting some folks in the wrong spots and thereby creating uncertainty leaving guys to their own devices. The same guys who have been chastised for a lack of IQ, were somehow able to execute a fine defensive scheme- except for 8 seconds of the Butler game end. Was that bad IQ or bad preparation/planning/order leaving Baldwin to receive the ball alone and driving up the court unbothered? I'll go to my grave stating that was totally on the coach- and I've talked to many of my former coaching colleagues.
The season is over. Steele will be back next year, hopefully doing some deep study as to how to craft an offense to fit the talents of the players we have.
We were lucky that the season ended when it did. There is a lot to prove, by Steele, Graves, Jackson, Johnson and Hayes. We will see...

I love this post!

In fact I already wrote my post before I read this one. many similar thoughts. I see criticism where it is warranted. It’s not about excusing players for their poor decisions and play, but just that it is unreasonable to give the coach a complete pass here. Many who are saying it is all on the players or all on t he coach(es) are missing the point that both the players and coaches have to own responsibility.

Here’s the post I wrote in response to anyone suggesting the blame lies all on the players:

It’s not like we’ve seen one player who continues to struggle on offense with bad decisions. Practically the entire team continued to make bad decisions all season. It is unreasonable to think the coach is not at least partly responsible. It’s not a players vs. coach argument to me. Everybody owns responsibility, but the coach has a heck of a lot of practices during the year to fix some of these things. You simply can not give the coach a pass and say it is all on the players for not being coachable.

And it’s not that Steele is a hopeless case. He may still turn out to be one of our great coaches who gets X to a Final Four. Who knows. He has made really good progress on the defensive end. He also had to work with a rather short bench and a roster that didn’t have enough high BE level players (though that is partly on him).

Let’s remember he had so many playmakers back on the team that included Bluiett, Macura, Kanter, Gates and O’Mara in addition the the core four, so he never had to worry about how to adjust the offense because of a lack of good outside shooters or complimentary players on the court. The past two years, though, Travis has really struggled to help his team get better in some areas - even some simple fundamental skills on offense- which likely caused the team at least a few games.

The season is over. Let’s see how Travis responds to the disappointing finish to the season. The best coaches are quietly their own toughest critic, constantly looking for flaws in their approach and learning from mistakes so they can make the necessary tweaks that will help ensure the team is always getting better (i.e. they are all in sync, using their brains, anticipating teammates movements, playing with confidence and hustling their tail off) and that both the individual players and the team are playing to their strengths. Plus, it looks like we will be seeing a few more high level playmakers and good outside shooters added to next year’s roster. Let’s hope year three is the year we find a better balanced team where everyone gets smarter and everything clicks with both the players and coaches.

[Masterofreality]

I love this post!

In fact I already wrote my post before I read this one. many similar thoughts. I see criticism where it is warranted. It’s not about excusing players for their poor decisions and play, but just that it is unreasonable to give the coach a complete pass here. Many who are saying it is all on the players or all on t he coach(es) are missing the point that both the players and coaches have to own responsibility.

Here’s the post I wrote in response to anyone suggesting the blame lies all on the players:

It’s not like we’ve seen one player who continues to struggle on offense with bad decisions. Practically the entire team continued to make bad decisions all season. It is unreasonable to think the coach is not at least partly responsible. It’s not a players vs. coach argument to me. Everybody owns responsibility, but the coach has a heck of a lot of practices during the year to fix some of these things. You simply can not give the coach a pass and say it is all on the players for not being coachable.

And it’s not that Steele is a hopeless case. He may still turn out to be one of our great coaches who gets X to a Final Four. Who knows. He has made really good progress on the defensive end. He also had to work with a rather short bench and a roster that didn’t have enough high BE level players (though that is partly on him).

Let’s remember he had so many playmakers back on the team that included Bluiett, Macura, Kanter, Gates and O’Mara in addition the the core four, so he never had to worry about how to adjust the offense because of a lack of good outside shooters or complimentary players on the court. The past two years, though, Travis has really struggled to help his team get better in some areas - even some simple fundamental skills on offense- which likely caused the team at least a few games.

The season is over. Let’s see how Travis responds to the disappointing finish to the season. The best coaches are quietly their own toughest critic, constantly looking for flaws in their approach and learning from mistakes so they can make the necessary tweaks that will help ensure the team is always getting better (i.e. they are all in sync, using their brains, anticipating teammates movements, playing with confidence and hustling their tail off) and that both the individual players and the team are playing to their strengths. Plus, it looks like we will be seeing a few more high level playmakers and good outside shooters added to next year’s roster. Let’s hope year three is the year we find a better balanced team where everyone gets smarter and everything clicks with both the players and coaches.

And I love this post right back! Well said IM4!!

[IM4X]

Goodin’s lazy, slow, cross-court pass, during the DePaul game in New York City, which was picked-off, taken down court, and put into the basket against us. THAT cannot be put on the coaching staff. Crap like that happened all season long and in every game. Turnovers drove us insane all season long.

I have to believe that Steele was constantly working on cleaning that up. Unfortunately, whether it was about basketball IQ or “cultural issues” or whatever, it was never achieved at a necessary level.

I think we are all frustrated by the rather frustrating nature by which this past season played itself out.

Last point: as compared to, say, the roster construction of Villanova, I personally do believe that our roster construction caused us severe issues this season, and certainly last season when Steele had to go out and find transfers to fill out the squad.

Dash... I like reading your posts and I think for the most part you and I have been on the same page with our thoughts about this season.

That lazy pass by Q during the DePaul game bothered me almost as much as there being no press during that last Butler possession with 9 seconds and the plan to leave Baldwin unguarded the entire way up the court.

Absolutely, Q is at fault for that pass (and I think Steele yanked him right after it happened), but at the same time we all know that kind of crap happened in almost every game. You say you “Have to believe Steele is constantly working on cleaning it up.” I happen to believe that whatever Travis and his staff are doing to ensure smarter passes (and other decisions) are being made simply isn’t working.

That may be obvious, but there is a bigger point I am making here: Does it make more sense that Steele is constantly working with Q and Naji and Scruggs and Carter and Moore on cleaning up their passing in practice and then those players are just not giving a damn about turning the ball over and making it more difficult for their team to win or does it make more sense that Steele is not quite spending as much time as some of us have assumed and instead he just sees less turnovers in practice and starts thinking his team is getting better (when actually it is the lower level of completion they are playing against in practice)?

I am not at practice (so I obviously don’t know the answer for sure), but to me it seems less plausible that Steele is being such a stickler and perfectionist, getting them to make smart, crisp passes in practice and then those remarkably improved passers all show up in the next game and go back to passing like their opponents won’t go after lazy passes.

Regardless what is happening in practice, I think we can all agree it isn’t working. Travis and his staff have in part failed to get through to them. That’s not to say the players are excused from blame. Everybody is responsible for the successes and failures of this team, but the buck stops with the head coach.

It is strange, I feel I have been hard on Steele and yet I really want him to be “The guy” who takes us to the next level. I really like his demeanor. I think he is a good guy who is very friendly and approachable. I am now looking to see how good he really is at recruiting the right players to build that next level team and how serious he will become about the little details of self improvement.

[XUGRAD80]

I think that it doesn’t have to be an either-or, but can be a both. It’s quite reasonable to assume that Steele and the other coaches saw exactly what we saw, especially as they probably spent hours and hours looking at film. I think that it is quite reasonable to assume that the players, who also watch film, were told and shown exactly what mistakes they made. There where times during the season where I saw players taken out of games after making a mental mistake that resulted in a turnover and/or missed assignment on defense. But the players continued to make the same dumb plays over and over. On the other hand, there were certainly times when Steele took out players that seemed to be getting in a groove, or didn’t make defensive switches that might have changed a game result. I think that BOTH the players and the coaching staff needed to do better. The only question I have is...did the players play to their potential both physically and mentally? My answer to that question would be...no. For whatever reason they didn’t always seem to “have their heads in the game”. Now a lot of people want to blame the coaching staff for that, and I would agree that they do have some responsibility there, but the vast majority of the responsibility for a player to play to their potential and to be mentally sharp rests on the players, not the coaches. Especially true for upperclassmen. I’m certainly not trying to defend Steele and the other coaches here. They didn’t do a perfect job by any means. They made mistakes. But I’m also not going to place all of the blame on them. IMO being prepared to play, executing a game plan correctly, and playing smart is something that every upperclassmen should be expected to do. When they fail to do that I will place most of the blame on the individual players, not the coaches. Especially when it’s upperclassmen making those dumb plays.

[xudash]

I have really enjoyed reading these most recent responses. I also appreciate that we can have this discussion on a civil basis with well-thought-out ideas.

I believe we can all agree that what we all witnessed as fans was so frustrating that it damn well makes it impossible to truly pinpoint the exact problem or combination of problems that led to this past season’s body of work. More precisely, perhaps it is too difficult to assign percentages of ownership for those problems that have been identified: Travis, the players, the fact that Travis only is in his second season, and perhaps the aforementioned cultural issues with this group. How much of it was on one versus the others, etc.

Will this coming season be interesting or what!

[mid major]

These are all excellent points. And to piggy back on Dash, and I'm positive it was noted by other's on this board, those lazy, slow, cross court passes were a dime a dozen this season and the culprits were the usual suspects and mostly after a time out. Kyky was an offender as well and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but doing that in the first few games is tolerable but doing it in game # 30 during the season isn't. Marshall taking an ill advised 3 with 22 seconds left on the clock is a head scratcher. He did it during the Butler game and then does it in the next game against DePaul so it makes you wonder if the coaches are okay with it. The free throw shooting and unforced turnovers were mind boggling to say the least. It's not all on coaching but as much as was expected from the staff I really wasn't impressed. Maybe a healthy Scruggs would've been the difference in the last three games but the utter disappointment I felt was almost unbearable.

[Muskie]

Somewhere in this roller coaster of a thread, it was suggested that Steele ran off Elias Harden (or that Harden would have been the answer this year). Well my friends, maybe Steele can put the band back together. Harden is in the transfer portal after one season in Jacksonville.

[IM4X]

Somewhere in this roller coaster of a thread, it was suggested that Steele ran off Elias Harden (or that Harden would have been the answer this year). Well my friends, maybe Steele can put the band back together. Harden is in the transfer portal after one season in Jacksonville.

Oh he’d have been the answer this year, if the question happened to be “Name the struggling X player who should have transferred out last year?”

I wish him the best of luck, but he simply is not talented enough to be playing on the floor at the BE level for more than a few minutes a game.

[xudash]

Oh he’d have been the answer this year, if the question happened to be “Name the struggling X player who should have transferred out last year?”

I wish him the best of luck, but he simply is not talented enough to be playing on the floor at the BE level for more than a few minutes a game.

I did like that kid. He certainly seemed likeable. The look on his face after he nailed the corner 3 against Villanova as he ran back down the court is priceless.

[IM4X]

I did like that kid. He certainly seemed likeable. The look on his face after he nailed the corner 3 against Villanova as he ran back down the court is priceless.

IÂ’ll give you that one, but if we are even sniffing at the possibility of filling roster spots with guys at his level of talent, we need to head back to the A10.

[Xuperman]

The "Mack" era is firmly in the rearview now that James transferred out with Paul the only remnant.

That 2018 class was a real crapper....possibly the worst this century as it no longer exists. It's kinda weird that Steele was riding shotgun for that haul, based on what he's done as the head guy. Of course, a lot of credit has to go to the recruiting prowess of the assistants he hired, especially the impact Hayes' has in the south. That machine needs to be running at max efficiency after the smoke clears from this pandemic.

All indications are that Steele intends to build his program with high school talent. Not much energy being expended in mining the transfer portal in his first 3 tries. Especially this year when he brings aboard 2 guys in a flash, while not being patient until the portal reaches maximum capacity. Yeah, there's still plenty of time but when MU snags a DJ Carton, I just roll my eyes (granted, NO ONE in the portal wants to bank on getting their PG minutes from Odom).

Here's the thing, our roster sets up nicely come fall...10 talented guys that will make for some fascinating 5 on 5's when practice cranks up BUT the fall of 2021 has a very uncomfortable amount of slots to fill. Only 7 projected (+Hanson ok:shocked:) at this point. Doesn't that seem incredibly thin? Especially with the volatility in keeping rosters intact nowdays.

So here's looking forward to Coach Steele making hay in the top 100 prospects again. There is 3 legit sources on Rivals having Jordan Hawkins out of DeMatha 100% coming to X via coach Hayes....that's a good start.

[xavierj]

The "Mack" era is firmly in the rearview now that James transferred out with Paul the only remnant.

That 2018 class was a real crapper....possibly the worst this century as it no longer exists. It's kinda weird that Steele was riding shotgun for that haul, based on what he's done as the head guy. Of course, a lot of credit has to go to the recruiting prowess of the assistants he hired, especially the impact Hayes' has in the south. That machine needs to be running at max efficiency after the smoke clears from this pandemic.

All indications are that Steele intends to build his program with high school talent. Not much energy being expended in mining the transfer portal in his first 3 tries. Especially this year when he brings aboard 2 guys in a flash, while not being patient until the portal reaches maximum capacity. Yeah, there's still plenty of time but when MU snags a DJ Carton, I just roll my eyes (granted, NO ONE in the portal wants to bank on getting their PG minutes from Odom).

Here's the thing, our roster sets up nicely come fall...10 talented guys that will make for some fascinating 5 on 5's when practice cranks up BUT the fall of 2021 has a very uncomfortable amount of slots to fill. Only 7 projected (+Hanson ok:shocked:) at this point. Doesn't that seem incredibly thin? Especially with the volatility in keeping rosters intact nowdays.

So here's looking forward to Coach Steele making hay in the top 100 prospects again. There is 3 legit sources on Rivals having Jordan Hawkins out of DeMatha 100% coming to X via coach Hayes....that's a good start.

I think the thing with Mack totally missing on that last class had nothing more to do than with people behind the scenes telling recruits he would be gone soon and the kids went elsewhere. That’s why losing coaches sucks. Chris had finally had consistent success based on his class with Tre and JP and they were getting involved with more and more highly rated recruits and then he just missed on everyone. The good thing is that Travis didn’t miss a beat on getting in with and landing highly rated guys. I think the most top 100 players on one Xavier roster is 4 a during a season, which they will also have this year, but the following year it could be 5 to 7, which is a good thing. As for 21 being thin, no it shouldn’t worry anyone. They will have Odom, Tandy, Jones, Wilcher, Zach, Dieonte, Ramsey and probably 4 freshman and maybe one transfer. That would be 12 guys, which no coach wants any more than that, even if that. I mean how can you fill 13 scholarships and keep everyone happy? Someone isn’t going to play. I would imagine the goal is to get enough talented guys, but not too many, so you can keep everyone happy.

[MADXSTER]

For me the jury is still out on Steele but to be honest, unlike MOR, I'm not overly concerned. If we had the last two seasons and not had Zach and Ky Ky plus the incoming recruiting class then yes I would be concerned.

Someone posted somewhere that Xavier ranked #253 in 3 point shooting. In taking Naji and Q out of the equation, Xavier shoots 35.xx % and Xavier moves up to #70. That's insane. I see next years team shooting somewhere between 35 to 40% next year. 35% would have won Xavier a number of games last year. I do not blame Steele for the poor 3 point shooting as much as that he just had to play with the cards that he was dealt.

Even though they will have a lot of younger guys, I think that the turnovers will go down. Can't see it getting worse IMHO.

The team defense will probably get worse considering that Xavier as a team was ranked #25 and be a relatively young team, but I do not see it as a total collapse or anything like that. Maybe top 40.

Everyone talked about the team IQ last season. The incoming recruits are said to have high basketball IQ in addition to their academic IQ's. Hence why no one has mentioned anything about them being able to qualify academically. I like to look at JP Macura in this instance. Not a lock down defender, Average 3 point shooter but had a very high basketball IQ and now he's already played in the NBA. High IQ can go along way in making a team play like a team. I think that's what we're are going to see in the future. Hopefully as soon as next year.

Xavier had the Dumbass play ran against them more than they ran it against other teams. That's not good and I hope it comes back.

The BE will not be as strong next season as they were this past season. I actually believe that Xavier will have a better record next year than the past two years.

For some(MOR) Steele is on the hot seat but I think after next season that the hot seat will become a warm seat. That said I do believe that Steele was slow to react in getting Q off the starting lineup. Also I'm not a fan of Steele letting the worst two 3 point shooters take the most 3 point attempts and being okay with it. Think this is part of the learning curve. Just hope that he's learned.

In summary, I'm okay with Steele.

In summary, I agree with MOR on most things but think his disdain for Steele is a little premature.

[Xuperman]

I think the thing with Mack totally missing on that last class had nothing more to do than with people behind the scenes telling recruits he would be gone soon and the kids went elsewhere.

I know this is a excuse that has been floated around as fact....I couldn't disagree more. There is no way that in the spring thru early fall recruiting window of 2017 that anyone could predict Mack leaving before a single game had been played, let alone the results that transpired, UNLESS you believe Mack wanted out regardless.

There were no big time prospects that made verbals, only to decommit after/during the 2017/18 season. So to believe that the scuttlebutt about him leaving was a known commodity doesn't make much sense.

Here's the thing, and my basis for concern for team 100....There will be NO SENIORS that came up thru the system other than, wait for it....., Myles Hanson :facepalm:.

a more significant concern is that out of the 2 freshman classes on Coach Steele's watch, FOUR of the eight have transfered....that's 50% folks! Granted, all 3 of the Mack guys are part of the equation, BUT Steele has his fingerprints there regardless.

Ok, so let's toss out the 3 Mack scrubs and insert our incoming 3 studs. Obviously Bishop leaving constitutes a 1:8 ratio already. Just one more departure would establish a 25% expectation, which is not unreasonable in today's shifting rosters. These have to be filled with IMPACT TRANSFERS, of which Steele has shown no ability/interest in accomplishing. I am going to continue to rail against Coach Steele in this area until, hopefully, it is not necessary BUT nearly EVERYONE ELSE in the BEast is making a SIGNIFICANT IMPACT in the transfer game. We have to at least keep pace.

[xavierj]

I know this is a excuse that has been floated around as fact....I couldn't disagree more. There is no way that in the spring thru early fall recruiting window of 2017 that anyone could predict Mack leaving before a single game had been played, let alone the results that transpired, UNLESS you believe Mack wanted out regardless.

There were no big time prospects that made verbals, only to decommit after/during the 2017/18 season. So to believe that the scuttlebutt about him leaving was a known commodity doesn't make much sense.

Here's the thing, and my basis for concern for team 100....There will be NO SENIORS that came up thru the system other than, wait for it....., Myles Hanson :facepalm:.

a more significant concern is that out of the 2 freshman classes on Coach Steele's watch, FOUR of the eight have transfered....that's 50% folks! Granted, all 3 of the Mack guys are part of the equation, BUT Steele has his fingerprints there regardless.

Ok, so let's toss out the 3 Mack scrubs and insert our incoming 3 studs. Obviously Bishop leaving constitutes a 1:8 ratio already. Just one more departure would establish a 25% expectation, which is not unreasonable in today's shifting rosters. These have to be filled with IMPACT TRANSFERS, of which Steele has shown no ability/interest in accomplishing. I am going to continue to rail against Coach Steele in this area until, hopefully, it is not necessary BUT nearly EVERYONE ELSE in the BEast is making a SIGNIFICANT IMPACT in the transfer game. We have to at least keep pace.

Ok on transfers, who else in the Big East besides seton hall and Marquette have really landed anyone of significance or even went after them. Seton Hall has To replace a ton and they don’t have a ton coming in, so it made sense. I mean Paul is coming back and to me that’s better than any of the transfers we could have gone after.

What is the transfer game that Nova plays every year? How many of Nova’s starters have been transfers? Yes Creighton took the O’Connell kid but is he even any good? He will sit one and play one. Georgetown lost 4 guys this year. How many transfers are they bringing in? Xavier went after two of the top transfers but they were not going to concede everything to get them and one of them went back to Bowling Green. I would rather build from the high school market like Nova does. Relying on transfers tells me you are not recruiting very well or you just got the job and lost most of your team. I am much more excited to see the young guys that you invested in get time and build this sucker.

[MADXSTER]

In 2010, he testified in a federal extortion trial involving Karen Sypher, who went to prison after trying to get money and gifts from Pitino in exchange for silence.

In 2015, the NCAA launched an investigation into a sex-for-pay scandal.

In 2016, Louisville gave itself a post season ban.

Pitino was fired in the fall of 2017. It wouldn't be unheard of that rumors were circling in the basketball world ,behind the scenes, that this was coming and that Mack was going to be a top target.

[Xuperman]

Ok on transfers, who else in the Big East besides seton hall and Marquette have really landed anyone of significance

I'm not referring to this short weird off season. This is only a disparaging gap if you look at the true impact of BE transfers recentlly....basically all of our conference competition has added key/multi year guys that move the needle. Hankins was great BUT just a Mahoney or/say Nze look to really leave a mark in more ways than one. Just saying that the priorities don't gel with the newly prioritized transfer options.

[xavierj]

I'm not referring to this short weird off season. This is only a disparaging gap if you look at the true impact of BE transfers recentlly....basically all of our conference competition has added key/multi year guys that move the needle. Hankins was great BUT just a Mahoney or/say Nze look to really leave a mark in more ways than one. Just saying that the priorities don't gel with the newly prioritized transfer options.

Who are the Nova transfers? Jason Carter wasn’t That terrible, just not what we had hoes, but I think he will be much more productive next year. If your plan doesn’t rely on transfers for the long haul, don’t build your program around it. If you want to be like the best (Nova), build your program like them.

[xavierj]

In 2010, he testified in a federal extortion trial involving Karen Sypher, who went to prison after trying to get money and gifts from Pitino in exchange for silence.

In 2015, the NCAA launched an investigation into a sex-for-pay scandal.

In 2016, Louisville gave itself a post season ban.

Pitino was fired in the fall of 2017. It wouldn't be unheard of that rumors were circling in the basketball world ,behind the scenes, that this was coming and that Mack was going to be a top target.

Yes and a lot of people around Xavier knew he really liked the Louisville job. I am sure a lot of college coaches knew this as well. Louisville and Mack didn’t come out of left field.

[Xuperman]

Who are the Nova transfers?

Eric Paschall with an explanation point. They whiffed on Cremo recently but Caleb Daniels is gonna be a REAL pain in the ass for the next 2.

Landing MULTI YEAR, highly rated transfers has been something that nearly all other NBE teams have effectively used against us...it continues to be the case as we speak.

Coach Steele doesn't seem willing (or able) to afford us the same edge. Just don't like seeing the competition getting such a clear advantage, that's all.

[xavierj]

Eric Paschall with an explanation point. They whiffed on Cremo recently but Caleb Daniels is gonna be a REAL pain in the ass for the next 2.

Landing MULTI YEAR, highly rated transfers has been something that nearly all other NBE teams have effectively used against us...it continues to be the case as we speak.

Coach Steele doesn't seem willing (or able) to afford us the same edge. Just don't like seeing the competition getting such a clear advantage, that's all.

Maybe he is ok with his guys. Do you want him to take a transfer just to take one? He added transfer depth that he seems to think they will fit in well. I am sure he is more in tune with how to this works than any of us. Who would you like him to take and who are you wanting to sit as a result? Maybe he is in a really good spot with 6 or 7 guys for the 2021 class and wants to use his scholarships on guys who are still in high school. Holding a grudge because a coach isn’t all that interested in bringing in a transfer is a little silly. His guards next year are set with what’s coming back and what’s coming in. The only spot that may have been a big need is a stretch 4. He will have three centers on the team next year . He seems to be pretty high on the D2 kid and he knows talent better than any of us, so I will trust his judgement on that one. I guess the guy has grown three inches since he got in to college. Maybe he will be a diamond in the rough. Excited to see next years team.

[XUGRAD80]

When the staff reaches out to lots of high level transfers....they get criticized by some for reaching out en mass because it might upset some of the current players

When the staff fails to land any of those high level transfers.....they get criticized for that

When they use transfers to build depth.....they get criticized for not bringing in starters and difference makers

When they say that they are happy with their underclassmen and incoming freshman....they get criticized for not having commitments from future classes

Man, this is a tough crowd!

[bjf123]

When the staff reaches out to lots of high level transfers....they get criticized by some for reaching out en mass because it might upset some of the current players

When the staff fails to land any of those high level transfers.....they get criticized for that

When they use transfers to build depth.....they get criticized for not bringing in starters and difference makers

When they say that they are happy with their underclassmen and incoming freshman....they get criticized for not having commitments from future classes

Man, this is a tough crowd!

Welcome to the World Wide Web!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xavierj]

When the staff reaches out to lots of high level transfers....they get criticized by some for reaching out en mass because it might upset some of the current players

When the staff fails to land any of those high level transfers.....they get criticized for that

When they use transfers to build depth.....they get criticized for not bringing in starters and difference makers

When they say that they are happy with their underclassmen and incoming freshman....they get criticized for not having commitments from future classes

Man, this is a tough crowd!

Yep.

[AviatorX]

I understand why Villanova is an obvious measuring stick, but it’s almost like comparing Xavier to Duke or Kansas over this past stretch. Seems dumb to get frustrated that Nova is better across the board than Xavier (and basically every program in the country).

Xavier stacks up very very favorably with respect to the rest of the conference when it comes to recruiting. Marquette does better on the occasional super high end guy, but other than that you could argue Xavier has been recruiting at a higher level than the other 8 teams.

[xavierj]

Way too early to be talking about this. As I said in another thread, if we’re struggling like this again next year and don’t make the NCAA tourney for a 3rd straight year, assuming we don’t make it this year, then his seat gets hot. He still doesn’t get fired.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess Nova is planning on having everyone back. They do not have anyone signed for the 2020 class to come in this year and haven’t had anyone commit for 2021.

[xukeith]

When the staff reaches out to lots of high level transfers....they get criticized by some for reaching out en mass because it might upset some of the current players

When the staff fails to land any of those high level transfers.....they get criticized for that

When they use transfers to build depth.....they get criticized for not bringing in starters and difference makers

When they say that they are happy with their underclassmen and incoming freshman....they get criticized for not having commitments from future classes

Man, this is a tough crowd!
Waaa was as was. Stop being paralyzed by analysis and just win, Baby!

[MHettel]

I'm not a huge fan of 2 year transfers. I realize we've had several that were key to some very good teams. But I don't like the idea of using a scholly for 3 years, and only getting 2 years of court time. A redshirt freshman is different. You burn 5 years of scholarships for the potential to play 4 years. so, only 20% of the total scholly commitment is burned. A traditional transfer that only has one year of eligibility left is just a cold pass. No interest in using 2 years of scholly's to have one year of PT.

[AviatorX]

I'm not a huge fan of 2 year transfers. I realize we've had several that were key to some very good teams. But I don't like the idea of using a scholly for 3 years, and only getting 2 years of court time. A redshirt freshman is different. You burn 5 years of scholarships for the potential to play 4 years. so, only 20% of the total scholly commitment is burned. A traditional transfer that only has one year of eligibility left is just a cold pass. No interest in using 2 years of scholly's to have one year of PT.

Travis (and many other high major coaches) have no interest in having all 13 scholarships in use by recruited players (especially not all 13 eligible), so as long as the fit and class balance is there, I don't particularly care how much eligibility a transfer has left.

I do care when they end of kind of sucking though. Seems to be a problem as of late.

[IM4X]

Having 11 scholarship players on the roster sounds about right as long as you know at least nine of those 11 are legit BE level talent. If 4 or 5 of those 11 end up being huge liabilities (as we saw this season) you are going to put yourself in a bad situation.

Everyone of those 11 should be good enough to start (if needed to) without crippling the team. The coach simply has to know he has at least 9 contenders with the maximum of two possible pretenders. You obviously can get by playing less than 9 in the rotation, but then you have to take into account the likelihood that there will be an injury or two at some point of the season.

[Xuperman]

I'm not a huge fan of 2 year transfers. I realize we've had several that were key to some very good teams. But I don't like the idea of using a scholly for 3 years, and only getting 2 years of court time. A redshirt freshman is different. You burn 5 years of scholarships for the potential to play 4 years. so, only 20% of the total scholly commitment is burned. A traditional transfer that only has one year of eligibility left is just a cold pass. No interest in using 2 years of scholly's to have one year of PT.

I think you're on to something here and I tend to think Coach Steele shares your line of thought....based on the fact he's brought in only one and dones (except Myles Hanson:blink:) but you can't disregard the value of the "sit out" year.

Depending on when a guy hits campus, he can get around 16 months as a Musketeer before becoming eligible. Gives him time to build chemistry with his teammates and integrate into our exceptional S&C program. Once practice starts he can show the staff what they can expect without threatening any PT from the young guys. Of course if that PT becomes inevitable, it could trigger a transfer but that's become common regardless.

Obviously, highly rated transfers are a much more known commodity at the D1 level than HS prospects. Unfortunately there is no indication that CS is interested but probably because the right situation hasn't presented itself.....it would be nice to get a Marcus Foster or a Yurtseven on occasion, right?

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm not a huge fan of 2 year transfers. I realize we've had several that were key to some very good teams. But I don't like the idea of using a scholly for 3 years, and only getting 2 years of court time. A redshirt freshman is different. You burn 5 years of scholarships for the potential to play 4 years. so, only 20% of the total scholly commitment is burned. A traditional transfer that only has one year of eligibility left is just a cold pass. No interest in using 2 years of scholly's to have one year of PT.

Sounds like you'd be a big fan of all transfers being eligible right away! :laugh:

[Xuperman]

Sounds like you'd be a big fan of all transfers being eligible right away! :laugh:

PLEASE, for the integrity of the amateur game we love....don't let this happen!

Just a extension of the whinner mentality that's rampent in the limp society we've created.....good luck to any remaining STRICT DISCIPLINARY COACHES. Players will use transferring as leverage if they get uncomfortable.
:scaredtodeath:

[D-West & PO-Z]

PLEASE, for the integrity of the amateur game we love....don't let this happen!

Just a extension of the whinner mentality that's rampent in the limp society we've created.....good luck to any remaining STRICT DISCIPLINARY COACHES. Players will use transferring as leverage if they get uncomfortable.
:scaredtodeath:

:rolleyes:

[94GRAD]

PLEASE, for the integrity of the amateur game we love....don't let this happen!

Just a extension of the whinner mentality that's rampent in the limp society we've created.....good luck to any remaining STRICT DISCIPLINARY COACHES. Players will use transferring as leverage if they get uncomfortable.
:scaredtodeath:

Someone please explain the difference of you quitting a job because you didn't like your boss/organization and going to work for another(better) company and a player transferring to another school.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Someone please explain the difference of you quitting a job because you didn't like your boss/organization and going to work for another(better) company and a player transferring to another school.

I think this, ultimately, is the right way to look at transfers. I hate the idea of kids coming and going whenever they please. I think it screws up the teams they leave, the teams they join and even impacts negatively on the college game---UK basketball has become just a joke (Duke too). Like MHETTEL, I especially dislike "one and dones" since it takes at least a half season just to develop a feel for your coaches and team mates. They end up adding limited value.

That established, in the end, it shouldn't be about whether or not I like what these kids are doing. They should have the individual freedom to come and go as they like (with some limits----like they should actually be enrolled at the schools for which they play, not taking money from boosters, etc.) I hate the effect it has when a kid just up and leaves mid season (like Bishop) or even end of season. But, individuals should have the freedom to play where they want to play just like all of us have (or for retired guys like me, had) the freedom to work where we wanted to work. Seems pretty simple.

[XUGRAD80]

On the other hand...

Many businesses that give tuition assistance to their employees require that the person not only be working while receiving this assistance, but also that they continue to work with the company for a time after graduation, or they will be required to pay the money they received back to the company. It’s a written agreement.

Does anyone know if the sit out rule applies to all student-athletes, or only those on scholarship? Does it pertain to all sports, or only some?

[Xuperman]

Someone please explain the difference of you quitting a job because you didn't like your boss/organization and going to work for another(better) company and a player transferring to another school.

Happy to oblige....a SCHOLARSHIP is a CONTRACT with services rendered in return. Break the contract and some penalty MUST be applied or we are in bizarro world, with the kids running the candy store.

I feel like Captain Obvious....:whack:

[D-West & PO-Z]

On the other hand...

Many businesses that give tuition assistance to their employees require that the person not only be working while receiving this assistance, but also that they continue to work with the company for a time after graduation, or they will be required to pay the money they received back to the company. It’s a written agreement.

Does anyone know if the sit out rule applies to all student-athletes, or only those on scholarship? Does it pertain to all sports, or only some?

That is an additional benefit to their regular salary though.

The scholarship is like the regular salary not regular salary and an added benefit.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Happy to oblige....a SCHOLARSHIP is a CONTRACT with services rendered in return. Break the contract and some penalty MUST be applied or we are in bizarro world, with the kids running the candy store.

I feel like Captain Obvious....:whack:

One year contracts.

The school can take away a scholarship after the year with no penalty.

[joe titan]

Happy to oblige....a SCHOLARSHIP is a CONTRACT with services rendered in return. Break the contract and some penalty MUST be applied or we are in bizarro world, with the kids running the candy store.

I feel like Captain Obvious....:whack:

The sit-out rules were promulgated 50 years ago by the BIG boys from elite programs for their own protection so that "lesser" or smaller schools could not poach better players and entice them to transfer; the rule really served to keep football back-ups around when scholly limits were 95. Had nothing to do with breaking contracts and everything to do with stockpiling players so that other schools could not have them.

[XUGRAD80]

The sit-out rules were promulgated 50 years ago by the BIG boys from elite programs for their own protection so that "lesser" or smaller schools could not poach better players and entice them to transfer; the rule really served to keep football back-ups around when scholly limits were 95. Had nothing to do with breaking contracts and everything to do with stockpiling players so that other schools could not have them.

Now the fear is that it would work the other way, and the big boys would cherry-pick star players from the smaller programs to restock their rosters after their stars left for the pros.

Based on the amount of undergraduate transfers there are, I’d say that the 1st scenario is happening and it’s being driven not by the schools, but by the players. They want to play. They don’t want to just sit on a bench, no matter how plush it might be. There are players leaving schools like KY, Duke, MSU and dropping down a level in search of playing time.

On the other hand, the larger programs are taking a lot of graduate transfers from the smaller programs and using them to fill out their rosters and give them depth. Some become starters, but most are just backups and specialists that contribute but don’t get starter minutes. In return, they get to earn a graduate degree at no cost.

It makes it tougher on coaches to keep a roster intact. It makes it harder for the fans to develop relationships with the players. But opening up the transfer rules also give the players more control over their own careers. I personally would add some stipulations to the transfer rules with the objective of keeping it from becoming the Wild West, but I do favor opening it up from what it is.

[XU 87]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-college-basketball

Steele ranked second.

[XUGRAD80]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-college-basketball

Steele ranked second.

This could cause some people to have a complete meltdown.

[GoMuskies]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-college-basketball

Steele ranked second.

Good to Steele ranked so high. The fact that Pitino is #6 shows that it's a pretty shallow pool, though (or that ESPN is terrible at ranking more likely).

[Masterofreality]

Good to Steele ranked so high. The fact that Pitino is #6 shows that it's a pretty shallow pool, though (or that ESPN is terrible at ranking more likely).

:perfect10:

[XU 87]

Good to Steele ranked so high. The fact that Pitino is #6 shows that it's a pretty shallow pool, though

I thought the same thing- that, and the fact that are very few head coaches under the age of 40 at high major jobs.

[drudy23]

It also shows that X is kind of rolling the dice with Steele. The ranking really doesn’t mean anything. When you look at the list he’s lumped in with, it’s not a particularly great one. I’m guessing less than 25% on that list ever even get a major D1 Head coaching job.

Basically he’s lumped in with the “potential” group. But I guess not much different than how X has always done it.

[Blue Blooded-05]

“Who knows, the Musketeers might have made the tournament in 2020.”

According to Wikipedia, Xavier definitely made the tournament in 2020: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Musketeers_men%27s_basketball

[xu82]

“Who knows, the Musketeers might have made the tournament in 2020.”

According to Wikipedia, Xavier definitely made the tournament in 2020: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Musketeers_men%27s_basketball

There you go, facts are facts!

[Masterofreality]

Don't know if you guys knew about it, or listened to it, but Kyle Castlin has a Podcast- it's called Trials Make Champions- and it's on Apple Podcasts.
It was posted a couple of days ago and if you follow Shannon Russell on Twitter, she posted a link to it. It is lengthy, almost an hour. Kyle does a nice job.

The one pertinent question, to me, that Kyle asked, was this one. "Coach, after your first year, what did you learn and how did you adjust going into your second year?
Answer: "The thing I learned the most was that I needed to challenge my staff more and expect more from them. I discovered that you have to coach your staff as hard as you coach your players."

Hmmm. That can be taken two ways, IMO.
Way number one is that he realized that he needed to become more of a CBB CEO, like he said Sean Miller was?
Way number two was that he was absolving himself from blame and putting shortcomings on a staff that was not giving him proper support, feedback and creativity? Maybe that is why he Matthew Graves was brought in, to arguably marginal benefit?

You decide.

[JEHARDI]

I listened to it and while I found that to be an interesting comment, overall I was impressed with what was shared and what they are working on to get better. I remain confident that we have the right guy. There have been growing pains but the reality remains you cannot win against high level competition without players who can shoot and the last two teams have not had anyone who was a consistent outside threat. They were way too easy to defend.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Don't know if you guys knew about it, or listened to it, but Kyle Castlin has a Podcast- it's called Trials Make Champions- and it's on Apple Podcasts.
It was posted a couple of days ago and if you follow Shannon Russell on Twitter, she posted a link to it. It is lengthy, almost an hour. Kyle does a nice job.

The one pertinent question, to me, that Kyle asked, was this one. "Coach, after your first year, what did you learn and how did you adjust going into your second year?
Answer: "The thing I learned the most was that I needed to challenge my staff more and expect more from them. I discovered that you have to coach your staff as hard as you coach your players."

Hmmm. That can be taken two ways, IMO.
Way number one is that he realized that he needed to become more of a CBB CEO, like he said Sean Miller was?
Way number two was that he was absolving himself from blame and putting shortcomings on a staff that was not giving him proper support, feedback and creativity? Maybe that is why he Matthew Graves was brought in, to arguably marginal benefit?

You decide.

I'll take Door No. 1.

And, while I have no way of evaluating the contribution of Graves, to me, his level of involvement and its results were not obvious. Maybe he was effective in some ways but I just cannot identify his actual level of effectiveness.

But, I'm still not happy with last season. Thankfully, I can put it in the rear view mirror because today I learned Kylie Jenner is not really the nation's youngest self made billionaire. Turns out she faked it. A bad season and now this. I can't take it. What's next?

[hydmuskie]

I am Door number 1 too. After some distance from the season, I realize that I have not spent as much time giving him credit for the things he does well.
1) Run a clean program. After all the crap that comes out about Duke (Zion) and Kansas and Louisville and Arizona - while it may seem like that is table stakes - it is something that we all too often gloss over as a fan base. We are not big enough to survive a scandal - so while it is an expectation - I appreciate that the expectation was met.
2) Bring back defense. There was a toughness to the team that was awesome to see. They kept battling - even if they didnt follow the game plan or made bone headed decisions or were too selfish
3) Recruit. From everything we have seen - I am optimistic that our path to being offensively AVERAGE should be probable.

If our path to success is like Virgina's - Great Defense - Average Offense - so be it. I dont mind that at all - especially when it comes to Tournament games.

If we are the Big East team that everyone hates to play because of our defense (like the old Huggy bear teams) so be it. I dont mind that at all.

Bottom line - if our defenisve intesity remains and we become league average on turnovers and offense - very doable in my opinion - we should be in good shape for next year.

[Xavier]

Depends on the definition of a clean program. They certainly aren't doing things like Duke/Kansas/Louisville but I am sure they aren't clean. Same with 90% of top 100 programs.

Anyways, I did love the fact that the team absolutely battled and stayed in games. That was one thing Mack teams had a tendency to do- fold quickly at adversity. I actually think you will start to see as Travis gets the guys he wants/fits his system- you will see the offense become the strong point of the team again. I thought he was the offensive coach for Mack? That is his specialty.

[boozehound]

Depends on the definition of a clean program. They certainly aren't doing things like Duke/Kansas/Louisville but I am sure they aren't clean. Same with 90% of top 100 programs.

Anyways, I did love the fact that the team absolutely battled and stayed in games. That was one thing Mack teams had a tendency to do- fold quickly at adversity. I actually think you will start to see as Travis gets the guys he wants/fits his system- you will see the offense become the strong point of the team again. I thought he was the offensive coach for Mack? That is his specialty.

Last year's team really wasn't that far away from being pretty good. They didn't have a PG which makes it very hard to be successful at a high level. I remember probably 3-5 games that I think they lost directly due to not having a PG. When they got pressured on the ball things tended to fall apart.

[XU_Lou]

This quote from Zach F seems to indicate that there were some internal issues with the team this past season - as some have speculated on this board:

“We’ve got to have better communication,” said Freemantle. “It’s got to get better both on and off the court, but mostly on the court, we’ve got to make sure everybody is on the same page with what we are doing.”

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2020/6/11/mens-basketball-bigeasthoops-summer-notebook.aspx

[XU 87]

This quote from Zach F seems to indicate that there were some internal issues with the team this past season - as some have speculated on this board:

“We’ve got to have better communication,” said Freemantle. “It’s got to get better both on and off the court, but mostly on the court, we’ve got to make sure everybody is on the same page with what we are doing.”

http://www.bigeast.com/news/2020/6/11/mens-basketball-bigeasthoops-summer-notebook.aspx

Interesting. I have heard some talk (maybe on this board) that Naji sort of had his own agenda last year, but that is just speculation on my part.

[Xville]

Think it is addition by subtraction from a couple of players from the way things looked on the court last year. I expect a more cohesive group this year, and looking forward to some senior leadership from scruggy

[xu82]

Interesting. I have heard some talk (maybe on this board) that Naji sort of had his own agenda last year, but that is just speculation on my part.

I haven’t “heard” anything, but I watched the games. He and Q seemed to have their own little thing going on. It reminded me of Lyons to some degree, but what do I know?

[drudy23]

There were NUMEROUS times toward the middle and end of the year where you could see very visible frustration from Free when bonehead plays were made. He knew they were stupid plays and was showing his frustration when he got to the point where he had kind of established himself.

To me, this is a VERY good sign that Free is being this vocal. As I’ve said before, he’s the perfect candidate to make sure this crap doesn’t continue, and he seems to want the role. Scruggs runs the show as the alpha dog and Free is his enforcer.

This is exactly what’s needed for this program.

[bobbiemcgee]

Coach on UConn podcast:

https://soundcloud.com/user-855271056/travis-steele-xavier-university-mens-basketball

[MHettel]

There were NUMEROUS times toward the middle and end of the year where you could see very visible frustration from Free when bonehead plays were made. He knew they were stupid plays and was showing his frustration when he got to the point where he had kind of established himself.

To me, this is a VERY good sign that Free is being this vocal. As I’ve said before, he’s the perfect candidate to make sure this crap doesn’t continue, and he seems to want the role. Scruggs runs the show as the alpha dog and Free is his enforcer.

This is exactly what’s needed for this program.

Like the combination of Scruggs and Free being the tone setters for this team. Exposing Free to this kind of role early will pay dividends when he's an upperclassman.

[xudash]

Watched a replay of the home Nova game from 2 years ago.

Second half. Hardin hits the "3" that ties the game 44-44.

Goodin proceeds to chuck up 2 3-attempts in succession, if I recall correctly. Both misses. Then the flood gates opened with Marshall and Paul hitting 3's followed by Marshall's drive for 2. Totally anecdotal, but Goodin had no business shooting those shots that year and he certainly had no business attempting to play that role this past year. In that game, he also proceeded to have a nice drive to the basket for two and also was fouled going in for a layup as well - the role he should have embraced more.

It wasn't all on them, but dumb decisions by Goodin and hero ball by Marshall that always didn't translate to success just tossed Playdough into the gears of Xavier's offense too many times last year.

Scruggs and Freemantle gathering them up and showing them the way sounds like a much less frustrating experience is coming - possibly even an enjoyable one.

[xu82]

Watched a replay of the home Nova game from 2 years ago.

Second half. Hardin hits the "3" that ties the game 44-44.

Goodin proceeds to chuck up 2 3-attempts in succession, if I recall correctly. Both misses. Then the flood gates opened with Marshall and Paul hitting 3's followed by Marshall's drive for 2. Totally anecdotal, but Goodin had no business shooting those shots that year and he certainly had no business attempting to play that role this past year. In that game, he also proceeded to have a nice drive to the basket for two and also was fouled going in for a layup as well - the role he should have embraced more.

It wasn't all on them, but dumb decisions by Goodin and hero ball by Marshall that always didn't translate to success just tossed Playdough into the gears of Xavier's offense too many times last year.

Scruggs and Freemantle gathering them up and showing them the way sounds like a much less frustrating experience is coming - possibly even an enjoyable one.

Public reps.....all I got, apparently.

Last year was the first time I can recall watching despite what I was seeing and how little I enjoyed it. Losing is one thing, being frustrated like that is something else.


.

[XUGRAD80]

I moved past frustration pretty early and went right into acceptance. Dumb play and a lot less talent than we had hoped for, as some of the players didn’t develop like we had hoped they would in their off-seasons. At that point I was more interested in watching how Free and Tandy developed, as I had little hope that the team would accomplish as much as was expected from them. My expectations for this years team are not high, but I hope that I’m pleasantly surprised. I just honk they are going to be too young and inexperienced. My hope is that they develop real teamwork and that the freshman all stay and show progress from the beginning of the year to the end. If they do that then they have the potential to be a hard team to beat by the end of the year. Where that might get them, I don’t know. I don’t expect an NCAA berth, but it sure would be nice if they got one. Most important, IMO, is that they get back to playing TEAM basketball. Something that has been missing the last couple of years.

[xudash]

Travis interview on UCONN site:

https://soundcloud.com/user-855271056/travis-steele-xavier-university-mens-basketball

[Final4]

This time last year (in fact almost a month earlier) Steele's contract was extended one year. Is it in the works, done and simply not announced or is he not getting an extension this year?

[GIMMFD]

Travis interview on UCONN site:

https://soundcloud.com/user-855271056/travis-steele-xavier-university-mens-basketball

I will say it's nice having a head coach that you really don't have to worry about saying anything "off-brand" about

[XU 87]

Elias Harden has now transferred to Georgetown, not the Big East school but the NAIA school in Kentucky. Hopefully that coach will be smart enough to figure out how to properly use him.

[XUGRAD80]

Elias Harden has now transferred to Georgetown, not the Big East school but the NAIA school in Kentucky. Hopefully that coach will be smart enough to figure out how to properly use him.

Considering the level of competition he will now be facing....he might be the STAR of that team.

perhaps Steele figured that the best way to use him against BE level teams, was to not use him.

[JEHARDI]

Elias Harden has now transferred to Georgetown, not the Big East school but the NAIA school in Kentucky. Hopefully that coach will be smart enough to figure out how to properly use him.

MOR could coach him up!

[GoMuskies]

Elias Harden has now transferred to Georgetown, not the Big East school but the NAIA school in Kentucky. Hopefully that coach will be smart enough to figure out how to properly use him.

In NAIA? Insert him in game. Instruct him to shoot. A lot. The end.

[joe titan]

In NAIA? Insert him in game. Instruct him to shoot. A lot. The end.

Show game tapes of David Young.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Elias Harden has now transferred to Georgetown, not the Big East school but the NAIA school in Kentucky. Hopefully that coach will be smart enough to figure out how to properly use him.

Are they NAIA now? I felt like when I was at X we would played them in an exhibition game and they were D3.

[GoMuskies]

They've been NAIA for a long time, which in most sports is much, much stronger then Division III.

[XUGRAD80]

Thomas More University just this year switched from NCAA D-3 affiliation to NAIA affiliation. The main reason being that it allowed them to be associated with, and to schedule, many schools that are much more local than they could in D3. Thus it will help to create more natural rivalries and will help to significantly cut down on their travel expenses for all sports. The level of competition is similar.

[XU 87]

I just find it a bit incredible that a kid who got offers from the likes of X, Mississippi and Texas Tech is now having to play NAIA ball because he apparently doesn't have the ability to compete even at the low D1 level. There were a lot of big misses when evaluating his abilities back in high school.

I have to say that I feel bad for Harden. I doubt this is how he envisioned his career going.

[GoMuskies]

He apparently got his shot to fall a lot in high school, but the first time I saw him shoot I wondered what the hell he was doing. His shot was ugly as all hell for a "shooter". Not the kind of J you feel particularly confident about going in consistently just from the eyeball test.

[XU 87]

He apparently got his shot to fall a lot in high school, but the first time I saw him shoot I wondered what the hell he was doing. His shot was ugly as all hell for a "shooter". Not the kind of J you feel particularly confident about going in consistently just from the eyeball test.

See also, Dahmir Bishop's shot.

[XUGRAD80]

I just find it a bit incredible that a kid who got offers from the likes of X, Mississippi and Texas Tech is now having to play NAIA ball because he apparently doesn't have the ability to compete even at the low D1 level. There were a lot of big misses when evaluating his abilities back in high school.

I have to say that I feel bad for Harden. I doubt this is how he envisioned his career going.

I can’t help but speculate that some coach somewhere pointed him toward Georgetown, KY with the idea that he goes there for a year, gets some playing time, and then transfers back to a higher level school if he plays really well there.

Wasn’t there another highly rated X player that transferred to Georgetown, KY when things didn’t work out? Maybe back in the 1980’s or 1990’s? A forward/center type player?

BTW....Georgetown won the NAIA National Championship in 2019

[94GRAD]

I can’t help but speculate that some coach somewhere pointed him toward Georgetown, KY with the idea that he goes there for a year, gets some playing time, and then transfers back to a higher level school if he plays really well there.

Wasn’t there another highly rated X player that transferred to Georgetown, KY when things didn’t work out? Maybe back in the 1980’s or 1990’s? A forward/center type player?

Brian Grant is from Georgetown Oh?

[XUGRAD80]

Brian Grant is from Georgetown Oh?

Nah, I’m pretty sure there was a player who got into the doghouse at X and transferred to GT College. This was back when transferring was not real common, but with them being an NAIA school it meant he didn’t have to sit out a year. I live in Kentucky, so I would remember it only because GT is a somewhat local college to me. The Bengals used to have their training camp there too, so I’ve been down to the college a few times to watch them.

[noteggs]

Just got the lightning bolt from Steele. Ben Stanley from Hampton just committed.

[whopper]

Ben Stanley looks real good..I am shocked but it says he can play right away. Sounds like a Kellan Martin type and that is high praise. How is this possible that Kunkel and Stanley fall into our lap with a strong incoming class plus Scruggs, Zach Carter, Kyky, Dionte. Ramsey will have to step up it seems.
A first team all-league performer this year in the Big South, Stanley is expected to compete for playing time right away all over the court for Steele and the Musketeers.

About Stanley, one Big South coach told 247Sports, “He is an absolute monster. He can score and he really knows how to get to the foul line. He is just a freakishly strong player.”

He scored 22 ppg. They had a spotty year but made the conference finals and he seemed like a constant force looking at the box score.

[Xuperman]

Didn't know where to post this, but here it is for those who missed it.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2020/07/23/its-great-feeling-basketball-returns-xavier/5487373002/

We have a pulse.

[xukeith]

Didn't know where to post this, but here it is for those who missed it.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2020/07/23/its-great-feeling-basketball-returns-xavier/5487373002/

We have a pulse.

More transfer in, more transfer out. It is what it is. Frosh might fight and sweat to earn a 4 minute playing time spot.

[drudy23]

Wow, Cintas is 20 years old. That’s crazy.

[Lloyd Braun]

College Basketball Insider Podcast with Rothstein/Coach Steele:

https://m.soundcloud.com/compass-media/college-hoops-today-with-jon-rothstein-xaviers-travis-steelebig-east-conf-preseason-preview

[atljar]

Start at 6:50

[Masterofreality]

Interesting that there wasn’t a single mention of Dwon. Wonder if he’s gonna start the season as a backup?
Or did I miss something?

[xufan02]

Interesting that there wasn’t a single mention of Dwon. Wonder if he’s gonna start the season as a backup?
Or did I miss something?

I've heard of the freshman in preseason so far Colby Jones has been the standout.

[xukeith]

Good to hear Johnson, Jones, and Wilcher can all shoot well. Hope Tandy too is a go basket getter.

[drudy23]

Are there potentially eligibility issues brewing for Dwon? It's weird that he hasn't been mentioned.

[Drew]

Are there potentially eligibility issues brewing for Dwon? It's weird that he hasn't been mentioned.

God please no, can't take much more of 2020 as it is.

[xufan02]

Are there potentially eligibility issues brewing for Dwon? It's weird that he hasn't been mentioned.

I don't think anyone needs to be concerned about Dwon. However, I think his impact this season will be limited.

[Lloyd Braun]

In the context of the interview it was more about how the team needed to focus on two areas with adding “newcomers” (freshman and transfers) to the team: shooting and replacing Jones’ rebounding. Odom is unlikely to be a shooter or rebounder, so I didn’t take anything away from his omission in the discussion other than relevance to the discussion and limited time to talk.

[bleedXblue]

I don't think anyone needs to be concerned about Dwon. However, I think his impact this season will be limited.

Why would you say that? He's our top recruit this year? At minimum he is going to be able to play some PG I hope. Tandy is NOT a PG.

[XU 87]

Why would you say that? He's our top recruit this year? At minimum he is going to be able to play some PG I hope. Tandy is NOT a PG.

I have no inside info, other than to say it's tough for most point guards not named John Wall to walk right in and be really effective freshman year. Even Tu Holloway struggled a lot his freshman year- Dante Jackson had to play a lot of point that year.

[Lloyd Braun]

Why would you say that? He's our top recruit this year? At minimum he is going to be able to play some PG I hope. Tandy is NOT a PG.

This is what I found interesting in the podcast- Steele specifically discussing Tandy as a PG.

[XU 87]

This is what I found interesting in the podcast- Steele specifically discussing Tandy as a PG.

I think when Tandy was recruited, they promised him he would pay some PG. Besides Dwon, who else would play point? I know Scruggs filled in the last few years, but I think he is much more effective playing off the ball.

[Xville]

People saying that tandy is not a pg is a vit mind boggling to me. He was basically one of the only guys who could get to the rim last year on a drive, and he had a relatively low to ratio as a freshman

[XU 87]

People saying that tandy is not a pg is a vit mind boggling to me. He was basically one of the only guys who could get to the rim last year on a drive, and he had a relatively low to ratio as a freshman

My impression from last year is that he can play point, but his game is more suited to play off the ball. We'll see.

[xufan02]

Why would you say that? He's our top recruit this year? At minimum he is going to be able to play some PG I hope. Tandy is NOT a PG.

Whether or not YOU think KyKy Tandy is a point guard or not doesn't matter. Travis is going to play him and Paul in tandem to start the year. I think Odom is going to get minutes, but I think we are talking 8-12 mpg tops.

[MHettel]

People saying that tandy is not a pg is a vit mind boggling to me. He was basically one of the only guys who could get to the rim last year on a drive, and he had a relatively low to ratio as a freshman

My eyes tell me a different story about Tandy last year. Here is a statistical look at what he did, using other former XU players as a "pool" to compare him against.

- Tandy took the 6th most shots per minute out of 59 former or current XU players.
- Tandy ranked 7th out of 48 players in % of his points that came from 3.
- Ranked 9th out of 48 in % of shot attempts that were from 3.
- Ranked 3rd out of 33 in 3PA per minute.
- Ranked 44 out of 59 in 2PA per minute.
- Ranked 72 out of 80 in 2PT FG%.
- Ranked 56 out of 59 in FTA per minute.

So in conclusion, I disagree. Last year Tandy was just a straight up gunner from 3. He didn't shoot a lot of 2s. He didn't make a lot of 2s. And he didn't get to the line very often. I must have missed the game when he got to the rim....

Nothing indicates PG to me.

By the way, his assists per minute were 34 of 59. Assists to TO was 37 of 60. But since he didn't play PG, I find these 2 stats to be a bit less telling.

[XU 87]

Whether or not YOU think KyKy Tandy is a point guard or not doesn't matter. Travis is going to play him and Paul in tandem to start the year. I think Odom is going to get minutes, but I think we are talking 8-12 mpg tops.

That might happen, but I think we're a little early to make that prediction. There hasn't even been an official practice yet.

[xufan02]

That might happen, but I think we're a little early to make that prediction. There hasn't even been an official practice yet.
I'll walk it back a bit. I don't think Dwon starts or plays a significant role this year. I see him as a role player and not a featured guy. I think equates to 12-16 mpg.

He will back-up KyKy or Paul, play good defense, have some huge dunks and play his role well.

[XU 87]

I'll walk it back a bit. I don't think Dwon starts or plays a significant role this year. I see him as a role player and not a featured guy. I think equates to 12-16 mpg.

He will back-up KyKy or Paul, play good defense, have some huge dunks and play his role well.

Based on past freshman point guard experiences, I think that's a fair prediction, albeit speculative at this point. But we'll see.

[Xville]

My eyes tell me a different story about Tandy last year. Here is a statistical look at what he did, using other former XU players as a "pool" to compare him against.

- Tandy took the 6th most shots per minute out of 59 former or current XU players.
- Tandy ranked 7th out of 48 players in % of his points that came from 3.
- Ranked 9th out of 48 in % of shot attempts that were from 3.
- Ranked 3rd out of 33 in 3PA per minute.
- Ranked 44 out of 59 in 2PA per minute.
- Ranked 72 out of 80 in 2PT FG%.
- Ranked 56 out of 59 in FTA per minute.

So in conclusion, I disagree. Last year Tandy was just a straight up gunner from 3. He didn't shoot a lot of 2s. He didn't make a lot of 2s. And he didn't get to the line very often. I must have missed the game when he got to the rim....

Nothing indicates PG to me.

By the way, his assists per minute were 34 of 59. Assists to TO was 37 of 60. But since he didn't play PG, I find these 2 stats to be a bit less telling.

I didn't say he wasnt a three point gunner last year, he certainly was...he played a role last year. All I was saying is that based off of the things I saw from him when he did drive to the rim, he had the ability, and in the limited time he played pg, he didnt turn the ball over as much as our other "pgs"

[xukeith]

I don't think anyone needs to be concerned about Dwon. However, I think his impact this season will be limited.

Do you know something X fans need to know about? All reports are he is a freak athletically and he communicates very well on the court.

[drudy23]

My impression from last year is that he can play point, but his game is more suited to play off the ball. We'll see.

Off the ball? My impression is that he’s more of the new age PG who can handle and will get most of his points with the ball in his hands. Not saying he’s these guys, but like Kylie, Lillard, etc. He’s a hybrid that can do both.

Lyons and Tu would be the most logical comparison. Interchangeable but definitely more effective with the ball in their hands. I really don’t think it matters what position he plays as long as he’s able to use both skill sets, and simply isn’t used as someone who is initiating the offense (as he was somewhat last season). Let him loose to do his thing.

His quickness makes him unguardable in a 1:1 situation. He will struggle to finish around the rim like Tu and Lyons did as well because of his size. But he can shoot and I’m sure he will develop an in between game.

[xufan2020]

Do you know something X fans need to know about? All reports are he is a freak athletically and he communicates very well on the court.
I think his point is just that he’s a freshmen and likely will have some growing pains. I have little doubt he’s going to be great, but that may take a year or two. I’m just trying to be realistic with expectations regarding his development. Although I hope I’m wrong and he balls out day 1

[XU 87]

Off the ball? My impression is that he’s more of the new age PG who can handle and will get most of his points with the ball in his hands. Not saying he’s these guys, but like Kylie, Lillard, etc. He’s a hybrid that can do both.

Lyons and Tu would be the most logical comparison. Interchangeable but definitely more effective with the ball in their hands.

By "off the ball", I mean that I think his game is better suited at the 2 as opposed to the 1, where he has to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. The same can be said about Scruggs.

[drudy23]

By "off the ball", I mean that I think his game is better suited at the 2 as opposed to the 1, where he has to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense. The same can be said about Scruggs.

There’s no reason he can’t be a scoring point guard with Scruggs at the 2. Best of both worlds.

[UCGRAD4X]

I think Tandy was probably taking more threes because that what was needed and available last year. I also think the same circumstances also led to more turnovers. This whole team was one big turnover machine.

[MHettel]

He will struggle to finish around the rim like Tu and Lyons did as well because of his size.

I dont really think Tu struggled to finish at the rim at all. If a guy drives to the rim, there are just a few outcomes.

In order of "value"
- Finish AND 1
- Finish
- Miss but fouled (depending on situation, and FT shooter, this could be a better ourcome than a make....)
- Miss or blocked shot (still a chance at O-Reb)
- Turnover out of bounds or steal to the other team
- Charge / Offensive foul


TU Holloway was an All-American becasue he LIVED in the top half of the outcomes I just listed.

[MHettel]

I think Tandy was probably taking more threes because that what was needed and available last year. I also think the same circumstances also led to more turnovers. This whole team was one big turnover machine.

Our PG sucked last year. If Tandy could have played PG, he would have. Dude is a gunner. Not a bad thing at all, and I undersatnd the idea that we needed shooting so he had the green light....but he settled pretty deep into the role of "shooter off the bench"

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

My eyes tell me a different story about Tandy last year. Here is a statistical look at what he did, using other former XU players as a "pool" to compare him against.

- Tandy took the 6th most shots per minute out of 59 former or current XU players.
- Tandy ranked 7th out of 48 players in % of his points that came from 3.
- Ranked 9th out of 48 in % of shot attempts that were from 3.
- Ranked 3rd out of 33 in 3PA per minute.
- Ranked 44 out of 59 in 2PA per minute.
- Ranked 72 out of 80 in 2PT FG%.
- Ranked 56 out of 59 in FTA per minute.

So in conclusion, I disagree. Last year Tandy was just a straight up gunner from 3. He didn't shoot a lot of 2s. He didn't make a lot of 2s. And he didn't get to the line very often. I must have missed the game when he got to the rim....

Nothing indicates PG to me.

By the way, his assists per minute were 34 of 59. Assists to TO was 37 of 60. But since he didn't play PG, I find these 2 stats to be a bit less telling.

Your stats back you up but what I think you are ignoring is that Tandy didn't play a lot at P.G. because we had Q getting most of those minutes (why I'm unsiure) and Scruggs getting occasional minutes. Tandy played, I recall, a lot at the "2' and I'm guessing that was Steele's way of getting him minutes while not having him saddled with the responsibility for running the offense. I think it might be a mistake to assume Tandy will not see significant minutes at the "1" this year. Partly, that reflects the early comment (with which I agree) that Scruggs is out of position at the "1" and partly may reflect Steele's desire not to saddle Odom with too much responsibility for running the offense so early in his career.

I hope we get to see Odom run the point this year but XU 87 is right. You simply don't see many true freshman come in, at major programs, and step right into the P.G. on day one. It happens but to me, just isn't likely for X this year. So, if not Odom, who? Seems like Tandy is the obvious candidate. Some of the more senior posters on this board will remember John Bagley (former B.E. player of year at Boston College). Tandy's body is a lot like Bagley; short, strong but a bit pudgy------maybe a better way to say it is that for a P.G., Tandy takes up space. We had a poster a couple of months back comment that Tandy has a solid body and should be able to take the ball inside way more often than he did last season. I concur. That is exactly what John Bagley did.

So, while I hope and expect to see Odom play P.G. this year (garnering more minutes as the season progresses) don't be surprised if Tandy gets most of those minutes early in the season. The circumstances which limited Tandy's role last year were different so be careful about taking last year's limited role and projecting that into the future.

[XUGRAD80]

What happened last year may have little or no effect on what happens this year.

[xukeith]

Refresh my memory. Did Summer play limited minutes behind Dee Davis? When did he start gaining playing time?

[Xville]

Refresh my memory. Did Summer play limited minutes behind Dee Davis? When did he start gaining playing time?

Basically didnt play his first year due to his injury, started almost every game his second year and became a stud.

[paulxu]

Colby Jones was forced to be the point guard on his team last year.
Apparently did pretty good.
Maybe he can help some at the position.

[MHettel]

Your stats back you up but what I think you are ignoring is that Tandy didn't play a lot at P.G. because we had Q getting most of those minutes (why I'm unsiure) and Scruggs getting occasional minutes. Tandy played, I recall, a lot at the "2' and I'm guessing that was Steele's way of getting him minutes while not having him saddled with the responsibility for running the offense. I think it might be a mistake to assume Tandy will not see significant minutes at the "1" this year. Partly, that reflects the early comment (with which I agree) that Scruggs is out of position at the "1" and partly may reflect Steele's desire not to saddle Odom with too much responsibility for running the offense so early in his career.

I hope we get to see Odom run the point this year but XU 87 is right. You simply don't see many true freshman come in, at major programs, and step right into the P.G. on day one. It happens but to me, just isn't likely for X this year. So, if not Odom, who? Seems like Tandy is the obvious candidate. Some of the more senior posters on this board will remember John Bagley (former B.E. player of year at Boston College). Tandy's body is a lot like Bagley; short, strong but a bit pudgy------maybe a better way to say it is that for a P.G., Tandy takes up space. We had a poster a couple of months back comment that Tandy has a solid body and should be able to take the ball inside way more often than he did last season. I concur. That is exactly what John Bagley did.

So, while I hope and expect to see Odom play P.G. this year (garnering more minutes as the season progresses) don't be surprised if Tandy gets most of those minutes early in the season. The circumstances which limited Tandy's role last year were different so be careful about taking last year's limited role and projecting that into the future.

It doesn't add up. We sucked at PG last year. Our #1 option, Goodin, was simply bad. Not just suddenly, but bad for a year leading into last year. Our #2 option, Scruggs, was serviceable, but most people believe we left something on the table because he wasn't off the ball more often. So, if Tandy could have done it, why wasn't he asked to do it?

Fast forward. We have a bonafide "natural" PG coming in this year. And an open spot at that position with the ability to let Scruggs play at the 2 or 3 (I prefer 3). So, the idea that suddenly that Tandy CAN and SHOULD play PG this year just doesn't add up to me.

If he can play PG, he would have. Simple.

I get how hard it is. Tu did it. Semaj did it. Sumner did it. Goodin did it. Odom can do it. And should.

I'm good with Tandy as the starting 2, or coming off the bench as a scorer. He will play, and score

[drudy23]

Collin Gillespie is a PG and shoots all the time. He also makes great decisions, finds great shooters, takes care of the ball, and makes very few mistakes. He’s nowhere near the best player or most athletic on the floor. But he’s often the most impactful. Same with Archidiacono.

The PG role is very important. It stirs the drink. It really doesn’t matter what position KyKY plays, but if he plays PG, he has to stir the drink.

[XUGRAD80]

Listening to the podcast, it seems pretty apparent to me that the coach is planning on using their depth much more this year. That says to me that he will have players play multiple positions, depending on who is on the floor at the same time. I don’t think that we see anyone put into the position of pg and then told to stay in that position for 35 minutes, with a backup getting the other 5. Same could be said for any other position. What that means is that any discussion of wither a player is a pg or shooting guard is mute. What “position” they play will depend on what is needed from them, depending on who else is on the floor at that time, what set the coach calls for, and what defense they going to play or face.....positionless basketball, where every player is asked to do many different things on the floor and not be pigeonholed into one thing or one position.

[xukeith]

Listening to the podcast, it seems pretty apparent to me that the coach is planning on using their depth much more this year. That says to me that he will have players play multiple positions, depending on who is on the floor at the same time. I don’t think that we see anyone put into the position of pg and then told to stay in that position for 35 minutes, with a backup getting the other 5. Same could be said for any other position. What that means is that any discussion of wither a player is a pg or shooting guard is mute. What “position” they play will depend on what is needed from them, depending on who else is on the floor at that time, what set the coach calls for, and what defense they going to play or face.....positionless basketball, where every player is asked to do many different things on the floor and not be pigeonholed into one thing or one position.

Coaches say they will be a lot deeper often but don’t do it because it lowers the win probability .
The 3 frosh probably won’t get a lot of time this year because ylthet are behind in the learning curve.
As far as Tandy’s role? I am no fan of him playing pg. it looks very unnaturally to him and he lacks pg confidence. I agree with MHettell. Scruggs is a better ball handler. Maybe Johnson can play pg.

[XU 87]

I get how hard it is. Tu did it. Semaj did it. Sumner did it. Goodin did it. Odom can do it. And should.



It is hard for a freshman to be the primary point guard at this level. Tu really struggled his first year. Semaj didn't. Sumner red shirted and had a year of practice before his first year. Goodin was thrown in when Sumner got hurt. He was a serviceable point guard that year on a good team.

[GoMuskies]

Johnny Wolf carried us as a freshman PG!

[drudy23]

If Scruggs is playing PG again this year, that’s a problem.

There’s no reason KyKy can’t be the player we all hope he can be while playing PG. As others have said, the designation of the 1 is relatively meaningless. The most important thing is to have 5 scoring weapons on the floor. You can do that with legit depth.

Dwon can certainly fit a back up role.

[XUGRAD80]

Goodin was thrown in when Sumner got hurt. He was a serviceable point guard that year on a good team.

I think that is a point that some miss.....often how a pg is regarded is in direct relationship to how well the players around them play. How many more assists would the team have had last year if they had just shot better? I seem to remember a lot of passes to open players that resulted in a shot that was clanked off the rim or backboard, or that was mishandled by the player receiving the pass and no shot was even attempted.

[sirthought]

Johnny Wolf carried us as a freshman PG!

Haven't looked back at stats, but I remember him playing pretty well. I don't recall him turning the ball over much and seemed to not be super dynamic, but he also kept things moving. For a young PG that's pretty helpful. I was bummed when he transferred.

[GoMuskies]

63 assists and 23 turnovers as a freshman. By transferring, he missed out on playing on our best team ever IMO. Probably would not have played much, but still.

[xudash]

I think that is a point that some miss.....often how a pg is regarded is in direct relationship to how well the players around them play. How many more assists would the team have had last year if they had just shot better? I seem to remember a lot of passes to open players that resulted in a shot that was clanked off the rim or backboard, or that was mishandled by the player receiving the pass and no shot was even attempted.

Fair point. But I can’t get past his stupid turnovers and ill-advised 3-point attempts.

And I’ll never forget him blowing those FT’s against Texas. Not exactly a “Tu” moment.

[XUGRAD80]

Fair point. But I can’t get past his stupid turnovers and ill-advised 3-point attempts.

And I’ll never forget him blowing those FT’s against Texas. Not exactly a “Tu” moment.

Those two players should never be compared...its an insult to Tu.

[UCGRAD4X]

Those two players should never be compared...its an insult to Tu.

I think that was his point - Balls-of-steel Holloway would have come through.

[xudash]

I think that was his point - Balls-of-steel Holloway would have come through.

Thank you.

[bobbiemcgee]

https://thebrokenanchor.com/is-it-time-to-panic-with-travis-steele/

[Muskie]

https://thebrokenanchor.com/is-it-time-to-panic-with-travis-steele/

That article has more twist and turns than a roller coaster...

[OTRMUSKIE]

I have no message but figured we all like having fun with this one.

[Xavier]

Seems like a dumb reason to start a new thread.

[Xuperman]

I have no message but figured we all like having fun with this one.

Are you brain dead?

Post something on the existing thread if you want to vent......It takes no time to find it. You're making an ass of yourself.

NO. NOT FUN.

[drudy23]

I find it pretty funny.

Really hoping we don’t see the Steele Big East fold this year. At some point, we have to be better than the 6-10, 7-9 range.

[OTRMUSKIE]

No my brain is pretty good actually. I thought it was funny too. Thanks Drudy for appreciating the humor. Glad to know not everybody is brain dead.

[xu82]

I will copy and paste from the game thread:


Please forgive me, but I’m going to use an NFL analogy here. As you may know, I’m a Buffalo Bills fan. MANY Bills fans were ALL OVER our HC, Sean McDermott for all kinds of decisions the first few years. Even when we won, he didn’t do enough to make people happy. But year after year he has become a better coach. We went from missing the playoffs or sneaking into the playoffs, to a #2 or 3 seed and 12-13 wins.

A lot of this had to do with building a roster. There is only one player on the active roster from when he arrived. BUT, a LOT of it has to do with him learning to be a better HC, and he will tell you that.

The opposite approach is the Browns. How many HC’s have they had in the last 10-20 years? Sadly, it’s way too close to 10-20 coaches! While they are finally putting something together this season, excessive turnover means you will never establish anything. Especially in college hoops, where you start over recruiting with every new regime.

I’m in the camp where you ride this out and give them every opportunity to grow into what they can be. The players and the coaches. Not forever, but you give it plenty of time rather than employ the Browns model over the last couple of decades. I bet they wish they had held onto Belichick until he got a QB and figured things out.

Just one guy’s opinion.


************************



I don’t see this thread as being productive or funny, or helpful to the program. Why you thought this was worthy of a new thread, I have no idea.

Again, just one guy’s opinion.


.

[XUBison]

Good grief. The thread was meant as a joke. Whether you think it’s funny or not… whatever. A joke, meant at the expense of those who might actually think Steele should be fired. Some of you are goofy peeps.

And there is nothing *productive* that happens on this board. Nothing.

[xu82]

Good grief. The thread was meant as a joke. Whether you think it’s funny or not… whatever. A joke, meant at the expense of those who might actually think Steele should be fired. Some of you are goofy peeps.

And there is nothing *productive* that happens on this board. Nothing.

The six or so people who have posted are not the only people who will read this crap. Keep that in mind. It’s not funny or even remotely amusing, and it’s certainly not helpful.

[Strange Brew]

Disclaimer: This was an attempt at humor by esteemed member OTR.

OTR, you need to understand sarcasm and inside jokes are often not appreciated by everyone.

I call on the Mods to send a PM to all members in regards to the necessity of an obligatory reflection period to allow for healing and unity.

[xu82]

Disclaimer: This was an attempt at humor by esteemed member OTR.

OTR, you need to understand sarcasm and inside jokes are often not appreciated by everyone.

I call on the Mods to send a PM to all members in regards to the necessity of an obligatory reflection period to allow for healing and unity.

Again, the attempt at humor was done in a public setting available to players, recruits and their families. If you think they never look at this stuff, I’d argue against it. If this was done on a professional level sports team, I’d take no offense whatsoever. I just think this was a bad idea, and I’ll stand by that no matter how innocent it was meant to be. Strangers just read the headline, no context included.

Sorry, that’s how I see it. I’m usually a pretty fun loving guy, but I’m not loving this.

[Strange Brew]

Again, the attempt at humor was done in a public setting available to players, recruits and their families. If you think they never look at this stuff, I’d argue against it. If this was done on a professional level sports team, I’d take no offense whatsoever. I just think this was a bad idea, and I’ll stand by that no matter how innocent it was meant to be. Strangers just read the headline, no context included.

Sorry, that’s how I see it. I’m usually a pretty fun loving guy, but I’m not loving this.

I understand 82. I hope no one wants the University to replace TS. In competitive sports you sometimes get mauled.

Couple of big positives for me:

Carter playing D and grabbing a board one handed with a partially severed head was sensational. I’ve only seen that level of focus and grittiness on a football field. Absolute geat leadership and hope the tenacity is infectious.

Free’s interior game bounced back.

Stanley gets points.

The shots didn’t fall today.

Watch Carter John McClain through a possession with a blood soaked head and burn the tape (or hit the delete button with an inappropriate amount of force).

More games to play...

[OTRMUSKIE]

Steele will be fine. We are 8-2 we’re ranked and lost to a good creighton team. Seton Hall just beat our asses. If we play like this against the Johnnies then I say FIRE STEELE.

[drudy23]

In the game thread, someone said “I wonder how long it will take for someone to create the Fire Steele thread after this one”. And five minutes later, it was there. It was funny.

Damn, some of you people are wound tight.

[XUGRAD80]

In the game thread, someone said “I wonder how long it will take for someone to create the Fire Steele thread after this one”. And five minutes later, it was there. It was funny.

Damn, some of you people are wound tight.

From those of us that don’t participate in the game threads....thanks for the clarification.

But perhaps the title of the thread could have explained that a little better? Could have said something about it being a joke? You know, just for those people that didn’t know it was supposed to be a joke, and took it seriously without reading everything else? That’s certainly one of the problems with social media, isn’t it? That people read headlines and not the whole story? And then run with it without knowing the whole story. There is the potential for that to be a potential recruit, or someone in their circle, that doesn’t realize it’s a joke and let’s it influence their decisions. Wouldn’t want that happen, would we.

[drudy23]

From those of us that don’t participate in the game threads....thanks for the clarification.

But perhaps the title of the thread could have explained that a little better? Could have said something about it being a joke? You know, just for those people that didn’t know it was supposed to be a joke, and took it seriously without reading everything else? That’s certainly one of the problems with social media, isn’t it? That people read headlines and not the whole story? And then run with it without knowing the whole story. There is the potential for that to be a potential recruit, or someone in their circle, that doesn’t realize it’s a joke and let’s it influence their decisions. Wouldn’t want that happen, would we.

Or you could just not take a message board so seriously.

[bigdiggins]

This thread has taught me a lot about 70 year olds on the internet...

[XUGRAD80]

Or you could just not take a message board so seriously.

And that response just proves that sarcasm and humor don’t translate well on message boards. :whack:

[XUGRAD80]

This thread has taught me a lot about 70 year olds on the internet...

Bite your tongue you young whippersnapper! You better make sure I can’t catch you in my wheelchair before you start sprouting off! :slapfight:

[drudy23]

From those of us that don’t participate in the game threads....thanks for the clarification.

But perhaps the title of the thread could have explained that a little better? Could have said something about it being a joke? You know, just for those people that didn’t know it was supposed to be a joke, and took it seriously without reading everything else? That’s certainly one of the problems with social media, isn’t it? That people read headlines and not the whole story? And then run with it without knowing the whole story. There is the potential for that to be a potential recruit, or someone in their circle, that doesn’t realize it’s a joke and let’s it influence their decisions. Wouldn’t want that happen, would we.

This was sarcasm and humor?

[xu82]

From those of us that don’t participate in the game threads....thanks for the clarification.

But perhaps the title of the thread could have explained that a little better? Could have said something about it being a joke? You know, just for those people that didn’t know it was supposed to be a joke, and took it seriously without reading everything else? That’s certainly one of the problems with social media, isn’t it? That people read headlines and not the whole story? And then run with it without knowing the whole story. There is the potential for that to be a potential recruit, or someone in their circle, that doesn’t realize it’s a joke and let’s it influence their decisions. Wouldn’t want that happen, would we.


Exactly, thank you. This is not about being young or old, this is common sense.

[XUGRAD80]

This was sarcasm and humor?

Well, according to you a message board shouldn’t be taken seriously, so I have to ask.....is that a serious question?

[Drew]

Unless you were serious, you should really just delete this thread.

[drudy23]

Well, according to you a message board shouldn’t be taken seriously, so I have to ask.....is that a serious question?

Yes - I'm all for sarcasm and humor.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Just delete the thread , I’ll start it up again if they get blown out again.

[Xuperman]

Just delete the thread , I’ll start it up again if they get blown out again.

So, you are actively going to push this for laughs? What are you trying to accomplish?

Seriously Man, stop this.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Seriously man you need to stop. Anybody who is upset over this thread needs to calm the F down. I bet all of you replaced your syrup bottles with the one who doesn’t have the woman because it was too offensive. Geezus people. So when it really is time to fire Steele will it be okay then? Or does it have to be mutually accepted by all.

[Strange Brew]

Seriously man you need to stop. Anybody who is upset over this thread needs to calm the F down. I bet all of you replaced your syrup bottles with the one who doesn’t have the woman because it was too offensive. Geezus people. So when it really is time to fire Steele will it be okay then? Or does it have to be mutually accepted by all.

Maybe the jokes on you and they keep responding to bump the thread.....

[Xuperman]

Exactly, thank you. This is not about being young or old, this is common sense.

Common sense wins....for once.

[OTRMUSKIE]

And what would the sense be? That Xavier has not been good in 2.4 years? Fire Travis was a joke but at some point we do have to start worrying.

[Drew]

Seriously man you need to stop. Anybody who is upset over this thread needs to calm the F down. I bet all of you replaced your syrup bottles with the one who doesnÂ’t have the woman because it was too offensive. Geezus people. So when it really is time to fire Steele will it be okay then? Or does it have to be mutually accepted by all.

Leave Aunt Jemima out of this

[bigdiggins]

Leave Aunt Jemima out of this

I'll bet you Uncle Ben banged the sh!t out of Aunt Jemima back in the day.

[X-Expert]

I don't really understand the sensitivity to the post. I'm not in the camp that thinks Steele should be fired but it is normal for a fanbase to question a coach. It happens at Duke, NC, UK, and here so no big deal. Steele has to show something this year. I agree that the last two years can hardly be blamed on him as Mack didn't recruit his final year. Steele has a decent team-just no interior D or O. He is playing a 4 out offense so they rely on the 3. Problem is that teams are extending their D forcing our shooters about 3 feet beyond the arc. Teams want to see if our bigs can beat them. Nova had a similar offense but they could beat you off the dribble too. X doesn't have that except Scruggs. Odom can too but he is not a good 3 point shooter so teams back off him a bit. Steele has now seen two teams (actually 4 when you include Toledo and Bradley). He needs to adjust to get his players shots. Also, the D is horrible. johnson would hit at least one 3 a game in transition but X is giving up too many baskets limiting their ability to run a little. I wasn't a huge Naji fan but his D is something X really misses. He could take the other teams best player out of a game.

[IM4X]

And what would the sense be? That Xavier has not been good in 2.4 years? Fire Travis was a joke but at some point we do have to start worrying.

1. Why do you state it’s a joke and then in the same post write things like “Xavier hasn’t been good in 2.4 years” and “but we have to start worrying.” That certainly doesn’t come off sounding like “Fire Steele” it’s a joke to you.

Like I said in my original post when you first started the original thread, I have not always loved his coaching decisions but I have also been impressed with a good bit of what Travis has done and think he is a good guy and good role model for his student athletes.

I will speak up when I don’t like things I’m seeing (like nit going to full court press until the game was out of reach), but I will also admit he recruited some very nice pieces who can shoot well and hopefully he can get them playing some better defense soon.

There is literally no reason to have a “Fire Steele” thread unless the intention is to be cruel. What if someone started a thread that said “OTRMUSKIE is an A-Hole” and then there were pages and pages of posts for that thread... and then the OP said, “It’s just a joke... and I am going to keep starting the same new thread if it gets deleted.” I don’t know you from Adam, but I would think it would bother you a little?

Now what if the person called for you to be fired from your job on a Forum/message board that was affiliated with the company where you worked... and the person (while saying it was a joke) stated that he would start another thread with the same title if someone deleted it.

It wouldn’t be cool- just as the Thread titled “Fire Steele” isn’t cool... especially when you can get thoughts across just as easily in thread that is simply titled “Coach Steele” (like this thread is now titled).

[GoMuskies]

If I was the CEO of my business making $2 million a year, I'd probably be able to handle a message board thread asking for me to be fired.

[xudash]

If I was the CEO of my business making $2 million a year, I'd probably be able to handle a message board thread asking for me to be fired.

Well done.

But there shouldn’t be any discussion of firing Travis at this point.

He certainly has been open to legitimate criticism. None of that should escalate to the point of discussing the possibility of firing him. Either way, he’s a big boy; he can take it.

[IM4X]

If I was the CEO of my business making $2 million a year, I'd probably be able to handle a message board thread asking for me to be fired.

Wait... he’s making that much?

[xu82]

Well done.

But there shouldn’t be any discussion of firing Travis at this point.

He certainly has been open to legitimate criticism. None of that should escalate to the point of discussing the possibility of firing him. Either way, he’s a big boy; he can take it.

And well done to you, sir. Public reps is all I got! I’m good with talking about his performance, both good and bad. Escalating to torches and pitch forks, even if in jest, is unwarranted and misleading and should be avoided, IMO. But to each their own........you be you.

[Masterofreality]

After the very disappointing Milquetoast effort vs Seton Hall, I’m gonna bring back up a quote to me from a Former Xavier Team Manager who I coached a few years ago and now works in the NFL. He has graduated but he sent me this earlier in the year:

“My concern is I thought the toughness was gone out of the program. I have worked with 4 NFL Head Coaches. Chris Mack is the most competitive person I have worked with on any level of sports. He played the bad guy really well. Knowing when to ride guys; when not too.” Travis has much to learn.

That lousy wilting effort vs Seton Hall brings back that concern. We were bullied all over the floor and rather than fighting back, we just kept taking punches in the mouth. We’ll see how this team and staff adjusts to that embarrassing beat down going forward.

That’s all I’m saying.

[Lloyd Braun]

There does seem to be a void in toughness. The question is, is that an innate trait or learned trait?

[xavierj]

After the very disappointing Milquetoast effort vs Seton Hall, I’m gonna bring back up a quote to me from a Former Xavier Team Manager who I coached a few years ago and now works in the NFL. He has graduated but he sent me this earlier in the year:

“My concern is I thought the toughness was gone out of the program. I have worked with 4 NFL Head Coaches. Chris Mack is the most competitive person I have worked with on any level of sports. He played the bad guy really well. Knowing when to ride guys; when not too.” Travis has much to learn.

That lousy wilting effort vs Seton Hall brings back that concern. We were bullied all over the floor and rather than fighting back, we just kept taking punches in the mouth. We’ll see how this team and staff adjusts to that embarrassing beat down going forward.

That’s all I’m saying.

Chris Mack acts tough but not sure he is really that tough. Guy lost at least 13 games 5 times as a Xavier coach out of 9 years and has lost at least 13, 6 out of 11 years now as a head coach. Also got bullied by Nova nearly everytime he faced them and also the year they were a number 1 seed got bullied by Arizona state. Chris Mack save for a couple of runs in the NCAA tourney, was and is overrated.

[Masterofreality]

Chris Mack acts tough but not sure he is really that tough. Guy lost at least 13 games 5 times as a Xavier coach out of 9 years and has lost at least 13, 6 out of 11 years now as a head coach. Also got bullied by Nova nearly everytime he faced them and also the year they were a number 1 seed got bullied by Arizona state. Chris Mack save for a couple of runs in the NCAA tourney, was and is overrated.

Forget Mack. This is now. What did your eyes tell you when the going really got tough with bully boys?
Nova doesn’t bully. They just make shots.
I’m quoting a guy who I trust who was in the locker room.
Whatchu got?

[Lloyd Braun]

We really haven’t been “tough” since Miller’s teams. I think that is more of a personnel thing than coaching. Type of person recruited though may play a role.

My opinion: Odom is tough. Getting him to full speed makes a world of difference.

[XU 87]

Forget Mack. This is now. What did your eyes tell you when the going really got tough with bully boys?
Nova doesn’t bully. They just make shots.
I’m quoting a guy who I trust who was in the locker room.
Whatchu got?

The primary reason X lost to SH was because X couldn’t make a shot.

[xavierj]

Forget Mack. This is now. What did your eyes tell you when the going really got tough with bully boys?
Nova doesn’t bully. They just make shots.
I’m quoting a guy who I trust who was in the locker room.
Whatchu got?

I don’t have much. You brought up Mack. Xavier had issues with him too. Time will tell but this team definitely needs to get tougher and maybe throw in a recruit with some toughness. I think over the last two years we added skill and shooters and I like what the young guys bring, but need someone who will pull everyone together, get rebounds and not let guys get easy shots at the rim. Against Seton Hall shots didn’t fall and you have make shots. Hopefully they regroup next game out. 8-2 is a good start and they can’t let what happened last game become a trend.

[XUGRAD80]

There is a difference between being physically tough and being mentally tough. Reynolds, for example, was very strong, very physically tough, but couldn't hang mentally when the pressure was on. Xavier CURRENTLY lacks any inside presence that is mentally tough. But that really shouldn't surprise anyone. They are relying on Freemantle (sophomore), Carter (transfer), Griffin (transfer), and Stanley (transfer). Generally speaking it's not until a player gets to be an upperclassman that they are really mentally tough, so i don't think it is any surprise that Freemantle is still getting bullied by bigger, stronger, older players. Carter showed some physical toughness when he got the one-handed rebound while bleeding, but he really didn't do anything after that. I just don't think it is in his nature to be the heavy. Griffin and Stanley have some physical attributes, but the BE is a BIG step up in physicality and toughness from what they have been used to playing against. Will they be able to hang mentally? Only time will tell. I said before the season started that this was a "young" and "inexperienced" team, and I'll stick to that. Other than Scruggs, who else has multiple years of play against BE level competition? Nobody. It is the rare freshman or transfer that can come into high-major level competition and hold their own physically and mentally right away. I don't see this as a "coaching" thing either, unless you want to equate recruiting and coaching as the same thing. You can't really "coach" someone to be tough, especially as a freshman/sophomore or newcomer. They either have it already, or it will take TIME to develop, or it will never happen. Xavier has had lots of players that never developed the mental toughness and maturity to match their physical strength. On the other hand, they have had players like Holloway whose mental toughness was far exceeding what they could do physically. He came in as a freshman with mental toughness, but that is very rare. Odom may have it too, but that's still TBD. I don't see it in the other freshman as of yet, nor in the transfers. Not writing this year off, but i do feel that if X needs to find one player for the future, that player needs to be an defensively intimidating low post player. I think that Steele realizes that his team lacks that player, and that is one of the reasons he has gone to an open post offense this year. On the other hand, they certainly had that type of player the last 2 years, and where did it get them? NIT and bubble. So now they have the outside game they lacked before, but not the inside game they had. But I'm still hopeful that they will develop more mental toughness as the year goes on and that they will learn how to play to their strengths successfully. Still a lot of season left. I am anxious to see how they bounce back from a butt whupping. The SJU game should tell us a lot about the mental state of this team.

[Masterofreality]

The primary reason X lost to SH was because X couldn’t make a shot.

Xavier’s Defense was Marshmallow Fluff. And actually has been all year.
Are we going to “didn’t make shots” as an excuse for losing the rest of the season?
That’s losers mentality. Sometimes you have to win Rock Fights against league teams. I haven’t seen us win one of those the last 3 years.

[Xville]

Xavier’s Defense was Marshmallow Fluff. And actually has been all year.
Are we going to “didn’t make shots” as an excuse for losing the rest of the season?
That’s losers mentality. Sometimes you have to win Rock Fights against league teams. I haven’t seen us win one of those the last 3 years.

Yep..reason we lost is because defense is absolute garbage and this team is mentally and physically weak. X hasnt had a "tough" team since the brawl year.

[xavierj]

Xavier’s Defense was Marshmallow Fluff. And actually has been all year.
Are we going to “didn’t make shots” as an excuse for losing the rest of the season?
That’s losers mentality. Sometimes you have to win Rock Fights against league teams. I haven’t seen us win one of those the last 3 years.

Every game the last two years was a rock fight, so I would imagine they won some rock fights. Do you actually watch the games?

[XU 87]

Xavier’s Defense was Marshmallow Fluff. And actually has been all year.
Are we going to “didn’t make shots” as an excuse for losing the rest of the season?
That’s losers mentality. Sometimes you have to win Rock Fights against league teams. I haven’t seen us win one of those the last 3 years.

In your eyes, anytime X loses is because Steele is a shitty coach. The last two years you preached that Steele doesn't know how to run an offense. Now that he has good offensive players, you now say he doesn't know how to run a defense. The team is 8-2, and this is what you have to say?

[xu82]

There is a difference between being physically tough and being mentally tough. Reynolds, for example, was very strong, very physically tough, but couldn't hang mentally when the pressure was on. Xavier CURRENTLY lacks any inside presence that is mentally tough. But that really shouldn't surprise anyone. They are relying on Freemantle (sophomore), Carter (transfer), Griffin (transfer), and Stanley (transfer). Generally speaking it's not until a player gets to be an upperclassman that they are really mentally tough, so i don't think it is any surprise that Freemantle is still getting bullied by bigger, stronger, older players. Carter showed some physical toughness when he got the one-handed rebound while bleeding, but he really didn't do anything after that. I just don't think it is in his nature to be the heavy. Griffin and Stanley have some physical attributes, but the BE is a BIG step up in physicality and toughness from what they have been used to playing against. Will they be able to hang mentally? Only time will tell. I said before the season started that this was a "young" and "inexperienced" team, and I'll stick to that. Other than Scruggs, who else has multiple years of play against BE level competition? Nobody. It is the rare freshman or transfer that can come into high-major level competition and hold their own physically and mentally right away. I don't see this as a "coaching" thing either, unless you want to equate recruiting and coaching as the same thing. You can't really "coach" someone to be tough, especially as a freshman/sophomore or newcomer. They either have it already, or it will take TIME to develop, or it will never happen. Xavier has had lots of players that never developed the mental toughness and maturity to match their physical strength. On the other hand, they have had players like Holloway whose mental toughness was far exceeding what they could do physically. He came in as a freshman with mental toughness, but that is very rare. Odom may have it too, but that's still TBD. I don't see it in the other freshman as of yet, nor in the transfers. Not writing this year off, but i do feel that if X needs to find one player for the future, that player needs to be an defensively intimidating low post player. I think that Steele realizes that his team lacks that player, and that is one of the reasons he has gone to an open post offense this year. On the other hand, they certainly had that type of player the last 2 years, and where did it get them? NIT and bubble. So now they have the outside game they lacked before, but not the inside game they had. But I'm still hopeful that they will develop more mental toughness as the year goes on and that they will learn how to play to their strengths successfully. Still a lot of season left. I am anxious to see how they bounce back from a butt whupping. The SJU game should tell us a lot about the mental state of this team.

We don’t have the seasoned horses inside yet. When you combine that with a rough shooting night, that’s what it’s going to look like. I’ll try to relax and give it time, both this season and moving forward. I don’t want to be the Cleveland Browns of the Big East.

[Xuperman]

Every game the last two years was a rock fight, so I would imagine they won some rock fights. Do you actually watch the games?

THIS. XJ,...you are consistently on point. I have NO idea how/why this "soft" narrative is getting traction....it is insanely void of anything in reality. There are way too many of our senior posters here that have zero patience and very questionable optimism.

[XUGRAD80]

THIS. XJ,...you are consistently on point. I have NO idea how/why this "soft" narrative is getting traction....it is insanely void of anything in reality. There are way too many of our senior posters here that have zero patience and very questionable optimism.

Compared to the SH team that X just played, the CURRENT team is “soft”. Even Steele has said so in his post game comments. They got bullied and physically dominated on the boards the whole game. They did a very poor job of blocking out. They were not the tougher team. How they will match up with the rest of the league has yet to be shown. BUT, I thought they did a very good job of competing against both Creighton and Marquette. SH is as big as any team in the country, so it’s going to hard for many teams to push them around. Hopefully they will do better against the rest of the league and also when they face SH again. It’s much to early to say that they will be a “soft” team, but they were not playing very tough in the LAST game.

[GoMuskies]

We don’t have the seasoned horses inside yet. When you combine that with a rough shooting night, that’s what it’s going to look like. I’ll try to relax and give it time, both this season and moving forward. I don’t want to be the Cleveland Browns of the Big East.

In what sense are you worried about becoming the Cleveland Browns of the Big East?

[Xuperman]

Compared to the SH team that X just played, the CURRENT team is “soft”. Even Steele has said so in his post game comments. They got bullied and physically dominated on the boards the whole game. They did a very poor job of blocking out. They were not the tougher team. How they will match up with the rest of the league has yet to be shown. BUT, I thought they did a very good job of competing against both Creighton and Marquette. SH is as big as any team in the country, so it’s going to hard for many teams to push them around. Hopefully they will do better against the rest of the league and also when they face SH again. It’s much to early to say that they will be a “soft” team, but they were not playing very tough in the LAST game.

I watched the game twice...and totally disagree. Yes, SHU will have the OPTIC advantage physically vs most everybody.... just based on their ridiculous size.

But soft? Toughness? Can't see it.

It was nothing close to the "bullying" we saw in the '07 tournament game vs Marquette.

[XUGRAD80]

I watched the game twice...and totally disagree. Yes, SHU will have the OPTIC advantage physically vs most everybody.... just based on their ridiculous size.

But soft? Toughness? Can't see it.

It was nothing close to the "bullying" we saw in the '07 tournament game vs Marquette.

“Rebounding, I know they (Seton Hall) are a big team, the biggest team in the Big East, but at the same time, it takes no talent to block out. It takes a level of physicality, a level of toughness and discipline to block out ... that's completely unacceptable," said Steele.

Steele also said that they got “exposed”. His word, not mine.

We ain’t talking about a game 13-14 years ago, we are talking about a game 4-5 days ago.

[Xuperman]

“Rebounding, I know they (Seton Hall) are a big team, the biggest team in the Big East, but at the same time, it takes no talent to block out. It takes a level of physicality, a level of toughness and discipline to block out ... that's completely unacceptable," said Steele.

Steele also said that they got “exposed”. His word, not mine.

We ain’t talking about a game 13-14 years ago, we are talking about a game 4-5 days ago.

No doubt. Coach has to use "coach speak" to reflect an obvious butt whippin'.

I just think this "soft" narrative is ridiculous based on 20 minutes in one game.

[Xville]

None of that was coachspeak. For once, he actually spoke some truth, and if you have watched any of the games this year, you need to be honest; defense and rebounding have been an issue far outside of 20 minutes in one game this year.

[XUGRAD80]

No doubt. Coach has to use "coach speak" to reflect an obvious butt whippin'.

I just think this "soft" narrative is ridiculous based on 20 minutes in one game.

Creighton and UC both out rebounded X. Bradley and TN. Tech both tied X in rebounds. The worries about rebounding go beyond the 2nd half of the SH game. X may have 8 wins, but they have only won the rebounding battle in 1/2 the games they have played. Steele has mentioned it as a concern more than just this one time after the SH game.

[xu82]

In what sense are you worried about becoming the Cleveland Browns of the Big East?

Making too many changes, and too soon. I bet they wish they had given Belichick more time. Turnover means starting over. I like stability until proven it clearly won’t work. I’d rather try to improve what we have and give it every opportunity to grow into the job and succeed. For now.