Coach Steele

[GoMuskies]

If he can't get the job done with the group of young, sought after, assistant coaches he has...then he shouldn't be coaching.

In addition to the sought after guys, he also has Dante Jackson.

[nuts4xu]

. Our options were our two worst defensive players (Tandy & Freemantle) or James, who very recently fouled a 3 point shooter with 0.2 left on the clock at the end of a half.

Quentin fouled a 3 point shooter in the second half. He has been awful defensively the past several weeks. Only reason I see to play him any minutes at all is when Scruggs or another guard is hurt.

[SM#24]

Quentin fouled a 3 point shooter in the second half. He has been awful defensively the past several weeks. Only reason I see to play him any minutes at all is when Scruggs or another guard is hurt.

And that's the only reason he was on the court. Yes, he fouled a 3pt shooter but not with 0.2 at the end of the half, which is more egregious. Besides, we made the free throw, we were able to set up our defense and had the players on the court we wanted as Butler had a smallish lineup out there with Baldwin, Thompson, Tucker, McDermott and Nze.

[Masterofreality]

Butler had 8.9 seconds left. That's a fair amount of time. Baldwin used 4.4 of that just to get to half court. Here's what I wouldn't have wanted my players to do, foul (unless it was a layup); we were only up two. Token pressure would not have denied Baldwin the ball, would have perhaps maybe chewed up a full second at the most; token pressure is just that, token, not real. Full or moderate pressure could very well turn it into a transition situation. I do believe Baldwin is more than capable of blowing by Naji with 1/2 the court to work with. Then you could get into an odd man situation and now they are attacking the basket...a layup, a foul or both.

We're the 17th best defensive team in the nation primarily predicated on our half court defense. To me the plan was sound, go over the screen, which Nze made easy by backing up, and hedging to force a trap on Baldwin. It was not executed. Whose fault is that, two veteran players for not remembering or the staff for not practicing it enough, or both ?

Also, subbing in, for who ? On the court we had Naji, Jones, Carter, Moore and Goodin; I'm pretty sure that's who we wanted on the court. Our options were our two worst defensive players (Tandy & Freemantle) or James, who very recently fouled a 3 point shooter with 0.2 left on the clock at the end of a half.

We’re just going to disagree completely on this. We have 5 guys on the court. They (taking away the inbounder) have 4.
We have an extra guy who can play free safety. That free safety could have been Naji near mid court with Bryce Moore as the guy hounding Baldwin. I doubt Baldwin “blows by” Moore, and even if he did get by him A) You’ve sped him up making him rush, B) Naji is the safety who picks him up. Everyone else on the court is still covered and even making Baldwin take 1.5 more seconds the clock would run out. Win.
We did none of that. Aaaand, if you did want to make sure you were set, subbing Free for Carter was a wash and you buy the extra time to set.
Still bad coaching and prep all the way around- especially if that set up WAS practiced on Friday. That’s as bad as the offense has been.

[scoscox]

Why are so many people concerned about giving up the 2? Giving up the 2 would’ve been fine. The only thing you can’t do is give up a 3.

[SM#24]

We’re just going to disagree completely on this. We have 5 guys on the court. They (taking away the inbounder) have 4.
We have an extra guy who can play free safety. That free safety could have been Naji near mid court with Bryce Moore as the guy hounding Baldwin. I doubt Baldwin “blows by” Moore, and even if he did get by him A) You’ve sped him up making him rush, B) Naji is the safety who picks him up. Everyone else on the court is still covered and even making Baldwin take 1.5 more seconds the clock would run out. Win.
We did none of that. Aaaand, if you did want to make sure you were set, subbing Free for Carter was a wash and you buy the extra time to set.
Still bad coaching and prep all the way around- especially if that set up WAS practiced on Friday. That’s as bad as the offense has been.

You're right, we're going to completely disagree. Shot was taken with 2.5 seconds, so we would have had to burn that much. Moore (our 2nd best defender on the court) was guarding McDermott, who is just as much a threat as Baldwin in a "don't get beat by a 3" situation. Goodin was on Tucker, also a threat. Carter was our free safety and was protecting the paint; we left Thompson open. What we did was just not executed properly, just as what you're suggesting has as much risk of not being executed properly. We didn't need to sub, because we were set for what we were trying to do. A good hedge and trap would have forced Baldwin sideways and rushed at the moment of truth as opposed to speeding him up across half court.
So Moore hounds him into Naji and with Tyrique on Nze, you're going to have 3 guarding two and no paint protection. Maybe Baldwin goes hero or maybe he makes a quick pass when he sees the numbers and now it's 3v2 with two good 3 point shooters and the lane wide open.
Why did Naji retreat behind the pick instead of going over the top ? Why did Tyrique completely retreat instead of hedging ? I'm pretty sure they were not coached to do that.
The whole time I was watching the game, I had way more issues with the players than our coaching. Why did Naji sleepwalk through 30 minutes of the game ? I'm pretty sure nobody on the coaching staff wanted those late 3s chucked by Naji and Moore, especially Moore's which was about as selfish a play as I've seen all year.

[Xavier]

I think MOR has been a little over the top on his criticism of Steele- because I think he is in general overestimating the talent on the team- but subbing in a player to get the team under control and set D would've been great coaching. It absolutely felt like the plan was to watch and hope they missed. It felt like coach got caught up in the craziness and was watching with the rest of us.

It was also a brilliant moving screen by butler. Ref isn't calling that and he effectively took both Marshal and Jones out of the play.

[SM#24]

Except if you watch the play, we were set for what we were trying to do. Jones took himself out of the play by continually backing up.

[Masterofreality]

You're right, we're going to completely disagree. Shot was taken with 2.5 seconds, so we would have had to burn that much. Moore (our 2nd best defender on the court) was guarding McDermott, who is just as much a threat as Baldwin in a "don't get beat by a 3" situation. Goodin was on Tucker, also a threat. Carter was our free safety and was protecting the paint; we left Thompson open. What we did was just not executed properly, just as what you're suggesting has as much risk of not being executed properly. We didn't need to sub, because we were set for what we were trying to do. A good hedge and trap would have forced Baldwin sideways and rushed at the moment of truth as opposed to speeding him up across half court.
So Moore hounds him into Naji and with Tyrique on Nze, you're going to have 3 guarding two and no paint protection. Maybe Baldwin goes hero or maybe he makes a quick pass when he sees the numbers and now it's 3v2 with two good 3 point shooters and the lane wide open.
Why did Naji retreat behind the pick instead of going over the top ? Why did Tyrique completely retreat instead of hedging ? I'm pretty sure they were not coached to do that.
The whole time I was watching the game, I had way more issues with the players than our coaching. Why did Naji sleepwalk through 30 minutes of the game ? I'm pretty sure nobody on the coaching staff wanted those late 3s chucked by Naji and Moore, especially Moore's which was about as selfish a play as I've seen all year.

A). If Baldwin would have been defended it would have taken more time plus rushed him away from his preferred spot.
B)Why was Moore, who is 6:0 guarding McDermott who is 6:7?
C)Why was Carter guarding the paint as a "free safety". He's useless there.
D) You couldn't hedge and trap at that position on the court. You could at the top of the key tho, which is where Baldwin would have elected to go if hounded.
E) We apparently were not "set' in what we were trying to do. Obviously confusion reigned.
F) If Carter was only supposed to be a safety valve paint protector, then Free could have been subbed in to play that role as well thereby giving precious extra time to set up.
G) "Lane wide open", "No Paint Protection"? I thought you said Carter was there. He was allegedly unassigned.
H) Even then. Naji didn't go 'under the pick". He was bully boyed back by a borderline moving screen that no ref will ever call in that situation. He should have never been put in that position, and then called out for it, by a coach deflecting blame for a flawed plan.
Every one of your points is easily countered, with better points.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Naji def went under the screen. The problem was the screen was set for Baldwin to go left and when Naji went under he was then on the wrong side because Baldwin went right. Tyrique was ready to hedge but again on the wrong side and when the Butler player rolled he blocked Naji off more and Tyrique was just in a bad position. I just watched again and it was a briliant play by Baldwin to do what he did. Hat off to him really. Naji and Tyrique looked like they were going to do the right thing if Baldwin used the screen to the left but he went right. Naji's biggest mistake was he went under the screen way before Baldwin ever go to the screener an when Baldwin saw that he just went to the right. Naji jumped the gun (probably bc he was worried if he went over Baldwin would go by him) and picked the wrong way. He just assumed Baldwin was going right and he was done after that.

All that being said it was a massive mistake to not pick Baldwin up earlier or even force them to inbound to someone else. I think Steele thought Jones and Naji would execute the pick but it just went way wrong.

[Masterofreality]

Fair D West.

[SM#24]

A). If Baldwin would have been defended it would have taken more time plus rushed him away from his preferred spot. He took 4.4 seconds to get up the court. If pressured I imagine he would gotten up the court quicker leaving more time in the half court.

B)Why was Moore, who is 6:0 guarding McDermott who is 6:7? Per each team's roster, Moore is 6-3 and McDermott 6-6, but who's counting.

C)Why was Carter guarding the paint as a "free safety". He's useless there. As protection for a blow by or as Tyrique hedges, Nze cuts to the basket.

D) You couldn't hedge and trap at that position on the court. You could at the top of the key tho, which is where Baldwin would have elected to go if hounded. If Naji comes over the top, even if late, Tyrique can slide over and step up rendering the screen ineffective other than leaving Nze open, which is preferred.

E) We apparently were not "set' in what we were trying to do. Obviously confusion reigned. For what they were trying to do, everyone was in the spot they should be in. If their plan was to play the high ball screen with a trap on Baldwin, I don't see where anyone would have been in any different a spot.

F) If Carter was only supposed to be a safety valve paint protector, then Free could have been subbed in to play that role as well thereby giving precious extra time to set up. This is a whatever.

G) "Lane wide open", "No Paint Protection"? I thought you said Carter was there. He was allegedly unassigned. You're possibly right with the lane not being open if we used one of our two remaining defenders in your scenario in the lane which would have left two of McDermott, Tucker and Thompson wide open.

H) Even then. Naji didn't go 'under the pick". He was bully boyed back by a borderline moving screen that no ref will ever call in that situation. He should have never been put in that position, and then called out for it, by a coach deflecting blame for a flawed plan. He backed himself into Nze and then chose to go under instead of over when Baldwin faked left. Which left him under when he went to his right.

Every one of your points is easily countered, with better points. Highly debatable as I don't agree with anything you wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYuZUSMymQ

[AviatorX]

I'm not sure why the hypercritical of Steele crowd doesn't just come right out and say what they're tap dancing around: you think Steele is an idiot who lacks basic fundamental basketball knowledge.

That's basically the accusation in this long-winded autopsy of Baldwin's game winner and the repeated calls for Steele to go back to the "motion offense."

I don't think Steele wants the offense to look how it does. MOR apparently does.

To get ahead of it - obviously, no, not every criticism of Steele falls in this camp. There's ton of room for complaint with respect to being slow on adjustments, roster makeup, etc. There are nuanced points to be made, but MOR ain't making them.

[Masterofreality]

I'm not sure why the hypercritical of Steele crowd doesn't just come right out and say what they're tap dancing around: you think Steele is an idiot who lacks basic fundamental basketball knowledge.

That's basically the accusation in this long-winded autopsy of Baldwin's game winner and the repeated calls for Steele to go back to the "motion offense."

I don't think Steele wants the offense to look how it does. MOR apparently does.

To get ahead of it - obviously, no, not every criticism of Steele falls in this camp. There's ton of room for complaint with respect to being slow on adjustments, roster makeup, etc. There are nuanced points to be made, but MOR ain't making them.

I don't "nuance". I speak reality.

Go back and look at every single Xavier message board to the dawn of the Interweb. From The Xavier Roundtable, where I defended Skip vs the constant attacks of DAllen15, to Moose's Xavier Message Board where I defended Matta and Miller, at all times until they screwed Xavier over and left, to the Musketeer Madness Board where I always defended Chris Mack from attacks. I have always had the Coach's back in every case, especially during the tough times. Long term posters know this.
This is different. This Head Coach and this Staff has evident and displayable deficiencies that are keeping this team, and last year's team for that matter from reaching their potential. I gave the benefit of the doubt last year, but not now. I don't think that Steele lacks 'basic basketball knowledge" in total, but there are severe holes, in his offensive scheme and his in game adjustments. He and his staff miss way too many things that the really good coaches don't. I give credit for a solid basic defensive scheme and philosophy and generally good out of bounds play calls that Sean Miller struggled with. Steele has the offense that he's designed from day one, obviously. I have zero idea what offense Steele wants because it's the same one that he's run for 2 years with the same nutty number of turnovers and putting guys in tough positions, while being easy to defense. Of course he can't go to a motion offense at this stage of the year, but he should have been looking harder at what was the best scheme to advantage this roster in preseason and what we have seen all year ain't it . He basically just messed around in Spain and let this team play AAU style without installing a solid system where the ball moves by pass quickly instead of dribbling and the sticking ball. He's been taken to school by almost every coach in this league and we've won games with superior talent vs the opposition instead of smart design, and we've almost lost to teams with severely deficient talent. This is evident.
The biggest problem is that the "Holes" in Steele's basketball acumen are not closing. We've seen the same iish for two years now-this year with better talent than last year. Everybody is hanging their hat on Steele's recruiting, and I'm very happy with Free (who should have been starting since mid December) and KyKy, but Bishop has already been blown out, we have zero tangible idea if Miles and Ramsey can play, and HS kids are just that. His grad transfers have been marginally OK, but not really Big East caliber to date, so we'll see.
There is no tap dance here. I have defended every single coach Xavier has had since Bob Staak because, while they had challenges, you could see that they had lots of juice and acumen. The Baldwin screw-up, and that's exactly what it was, is a microcosm of this staff's, and Steele's issues. Steele has had over 10 years of exposure to great coaches like Miller and Mack, and a lot was not absorbed. The fact that they had to go out and get another Butler connected guy for the bench, and basically the only guy Steele ever consults with in-game, Graves, shows you there were concerning holes in Steele's acumen. It remains. Period.

[Masterofreality]

Every one of your points is easily countered, with better points. Highly debatable as I don't agree with anything you wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYuZUSMymQ

That video shows no one picking up Baldwin, Baldwin with a 3 shot with no hand in the face and results in a loss. Agree? Welp...........

[bjf123]

Someone should have picked up Baldwin well before mid court. That’s purely a coaching blunder, unless that’s what Steele called and the players didn’t pay attention. Even then, that points to a coaching issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SM#24]

That video shows no one picking up Baldwin, Baldwin with a 3 shot with no hand in the face and results in a loss. Agree? Welp...........

I do agree with that; I just don't think that was the plan. Or maybe it was; maybe Steele thought they should guard Baldwin as if he was Goodin.

[N67ER]

Fair D West.

Did Moore shrink by 3 inches? He is listed as 6’3.

[Masterofreality]

Did Moore shrink by 3 inches? He is listed as 6’3.

I guess he grew since W Michigan when he was listed as 6:2.
In any event having McDermott guarded by a guy anywhere between 4-6 inches smaller, a guy who can jack 3’s with the best of them, a guy who could shoot with a clear view over the top of his defender, would seem to be lousy strategy as well.
But that’s just me.

[Lloyd Braun]

I have been a staunch defender of Steele since day 1 but it’s getting increasingly difficult as time goes on. The players making dumb mistakes is not always on the coach.... sometimes the light just doesn’t turn on and there are a handful of guys that just don’t play smart ball. Instincts are not taught.

As Xville has stated... I kind of want turn the page to see what’s in the next chapter. Just want to see the frosh through some dance experience.

[stammina0721]

This is what it looks down to, Xavier players were undoubtedly unprepared for that situation. That is Steele's fault. Then for him to throw his players under the bus when the fault is his is inexcusable. We have been blaming the players for dumb play, but at this point it isn't a stretch to say maybe all the dumb play stems from lack of preparation

[murray87]

This is what it looks down to, Xavier players were undoubtedly unprepared for that situation. That is Steele's fault. Then for him to throw his players under the bus when the fault is his is inexcusable. We have been blaming the players for dumb play, but at this point it isn't a stretch to say maybe all the dumb play stems from lack of preparation

Yes, I just now watched that video of the last play for the first time. Horrific execution/preparation of a very basic end game situation that it supposedly drilled/practiced/diagrammed/memorized throughout the summer and into the season. It was like a prevent defense in the NFL. The only thing it prevented was a win.

[Muskie]

Are people now doubting the members of the press that said Xavier worked on the last play specifically in practice the day before? I’m pretty sure either Adam Baum or Shannon reported that fact. I believe they were present at practice. Maybe they weren’t. Or I’m misremembering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Xville]

Ya know, that last play really sucked. If members of the press said they practiced it, we have nothing to dispute that fact. Sometimes, the players no matter how much you are prepared or practice it, eff up. It sucks, I hate it, I really don't want to watch x play a game that will start at 10 on a weeknight, but these guys still are young adults and eff up.

[XUBob]

I think it was more lack of execution as opposed to lack of preparation. These end game situations are practiced, to assume that the team was unprepared is a stretch. Now did they execute, no. You can blame whoever you want for that and you would probably be correct. I still don’t understand why there wasn’t any ball pressure I’d like to hear the reasoning for that. I didn’t realize the difference between this year’s team as opposed to last until I read the post by XU_Lou (I think). It shed some light on things for me regarding Steele and the progress the team has made.

[xcellentx]

We can argue back and forth whether the overall play was the defense for the time. It seems clear though that Naji did not play it correctly and that Jones didn't help correctly. Naji basically allowed himself to be picked.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

The getting into the weeds on a particular play's execution (or lack thereof) is a fool's errand. It is over.

I think it has to be fair to say that these two years have been disappointing, this year in particular they probably under-achieved (as evidenced by the coaches' vote, the posts on this forum, and the fact that as recently as last week a LARGE percentage of this board still thinks they can win a couple of games in the Big Dance), and while the recruiting appears to be fruitful, it doesn't guarantee us anything.

You'd have to be chugging kool-aid not to admit to being skeptical if Travis is ultimately going to work at a high level here, truly. There is no guarantee he ascends to the level of a Thad Matta, a Sean Miller, or a Chris Mack, and there is nothing yet to say he doesn't surpass them all. I think there are quantifiable things to look at and be concerned, I think there are non-quantifiable things to look at and be concerned, and I think there a few things to look at again become bullish about the next 2 or 3 years.

I'm still firmly in the wait-and-see camp, if I'm being honest. I think he is a good dude, but I'm not sure he is going to be a great coach -- how could I be? This whole "hot seat" thing is silly, Xavier hasn't made an involuntary MBB coaching change in most people on here's lifetime. The only wrench in that could be the next President (and / or next AD if Greg chases IU or Vandy). Barring that, Trav probably gets a LOT of rope to figure out, all while the Development and Admissions folks continue to sweat out another year of potentially no NCAA Tourney, and then the ramifications that could (will) follow.

[xu koop scoop]

This final 3 by Baldwin the other nite is eating up too many people. He hit a very long range 3. Still not game over. I was upset about the D scheme for that play & equally upset that seldom used James got to throw away the ball with 1.2 seconds. It was time for a Christian Laettner type set up with a perfect 60 to 70 foot pass & catch for the win. I have seen James used in that situation before. I guess he's the best at that in practice. Not in a game though. The Baldwin shot was not as disturbing as we were out of time outs & the coaches can only provide so much strategy from the sidelind. I'm okay with Steele. I guess we should have fired Sean Miller when he failed to foul Ohio St in NCAA tourney & let them hit a 3 to send game into OT. Of course if Cage hits his 2nd FT against Ohio St, then the 3 would have been moot. Conversely, if we make better than 15 of 25 FTs the other nite, then Baldwin's 3 would have been moot. How about firing Mack when his D allowed a guarded Wisconsin player to hit a 3 to eliminate our NCAA run. That Whiskey 3 may not have happened if Sumners wasn't called for a charge a few seconds earlier that gave the ball back to Whiskey. How about we fire Travis for allowing Scruggs to get hurt during our final 2 regular season games. How bout the game Jones passes to Free as time expires instead of shooting. Is that on the Coach? I'm with Steele. I give our opponents credit for hitting crucial shots. We are not a very good shooting team. Also, this season is not over. Beat DePaul & Nova & maybe all will sing a different tune. I don't expect it to happen as long as Scruggs is still hurt. If Scruggs stays out & we do beat DePaul & Nova somehow, will folks jump on the Steele bandwagon for pulling off that miracle. I'm not beating up our Coach or Players. They all have lives besides basketball. They entertain us. Most games right up to the final horn. Proud of this team effort. Rooting for them until final horn of final NCAA or NIT game.

[paulxu]

How about we hit 70% from the line in our own gym...and we'd have saved 50 pages of posting on Xavierhoops?

[Xville]

How about we hit 70% from the line in our own gym...and we'd have saved 50 pages of posting on Xavierhoops?

Ya know one thing about this...many here (not saying you have) are making this seem like a team wide issue. It isnt for the most part..the problem is Jones. He gets to the line the most, and hes at 59%. The rest of the team (for the most part) is at 70 or above. While this isnt great, it's not terrible either.

Jones kind of kills us at the line

[Dmartin]

Steele doesn't communicate to the players enough during games and does not use time outs effectively. Calling an offensive play with 30 seconds left before half is important but so is calling a defensive play and setting up a stop. The players are kids they need direction. Steele is a good recruiter but is a work in progress at best. Same players different coach we would easily have 22 plus wins this season. Any close game with a team with a lot of talent we lose.

[Drew]

It is only year 2, so any desire to fire or extend a head coach is premature. Lest we forget, Kevin Ollie won a national championship his first year and was nothing but a failure aftewards.


So far, I am still optimistic. Steele is a good recruiter, KyKy and Freemantle are absolutely great players and seem to be both talented and emotionally strong.

But you can't do what Marquette does and just continue to find reasons to keep the coach ignoring the obvious failures. So far, Steele has not been successful. Missing the tournament his first year, possibly missing the tournament this year. But it its still early. Let this year play out. Lets see how the the young bloods (kyky, freemantle, dwon odom, wilcher etc.) start to grow as a team next year. If it looks like that group will grow to be a final four contender then Steele should stay.

I would say Steele has 2 more years to try and right the ship considering the young class coming in. But if X is not back into the national conversation by then he should be gone. And we absolutely shouldn't do what Marquette has done and try to find reasons not to move on.

[Final4]

Million $ question.........does X extend Steele's contract another year this year like they did last year?

[GoMuskies]

Million $ question.........does X extend Steele's contract another year this year like they did last year?

As long as we make the tournament, we should. The situation for Steele needs to be seen as stable by recruits.

[AviatorX]

As long as we make the tournament, we should. The situation for Steele needs to be seen as stable by recruits.

Yeah, this is more like a $5 question. These contracts mean nothing.

[xu koop scoop]

How about we hit 70% from the line in our own gym...and we'd have saved 50 pages of posting on Xavierhoops?

amen to that

[paulxu]

Ya know one thing about this...many here (not saying you have) are making this seem like a team wide issue. It isnt for the most part..the problem is Jones. He gets to the line the most, and hes at 59%. The rest of the team (for the most part) is at 70 or above. While this isnt great, it's not terrible either.

Jones kind of kills us at the line

That's a good point. And a lot of our guys only shoot in the 60's.
I overlooked one other glaring point in the Butler game.
Once again our 3 pt % was abysmal, and in our own building. 26%.
That's just a killer. 3 of our starters were 1-11. Just would have taken one more of those.
This has been a long year. But it ain't over yet.

[Xavier]

I still am not sold on Steele. I do want to highlight a few things that gives me hope.

- This team has dramatically improved defense over the course of the year, it is now one of the best Defensive teams in Xavier history.
- KyKy and Freemantle have been very solid freshman, he is showing some signs of good recruiting.
- This team always fights. Teams in the past would easily give in once they were down 12-15 points. (Feel like we saw that a lot with Mack against Nova). So many times in so many games I feel like we are done and going to give in but they battle and fight back. Its impressive, and while its not a good sign on the coach we always seem to find ourselves in that situation- it is a good sign we battle back and fight so much.

[Xer4ever]

[QUOTE=Xville;670201]Ya know one thing about this...many here (not saying you have) are making this seem like a team wide issue. It isnt for the most part..the problem is Jones. He gets to the line the most, and hes at 59%. The rest of the team (for the most part) is at 70 or above. While this isnt great, it's not terrible either.

Jones kind of kills us at the line

Actually 68% Ft would have won the game. But here are some others that would have changed the outcome: wish we’d shot 30% 3’s; wish we’d not lost fast break points 14-6; wish we’d not lost 2nd half rebounding 20-11; wish we’d not lost points off TO 19-10; wish Butler had shot ‘only’ 50% 3’s;

[Xer4ever]

Steele doesn't communicate to the players enough during games and does not use time outs effectively. Calling an offensive play with 30 seconds left before half is important but so is calling a defensive play and setting up a stop. The players are kids they need direction. Steele is a good recruiter but is a work in progress at best. Same players different coach we would easily have 22 plus wins this season. Any close game with a team with a lot of talent we lose.

Agree 100%

[Final4]

Yeah, this is more like a $5 question. These contracts mean nothing.

You’re clueless if you believe that. We’re not talking about “these” contracts, we’re talking about “a” contract. Specifically the contract between XU and Steele. We’re not the Yankees or the Lakers who can fire a coach without cause and pay millions per the separation agreement. If there is the slightest hint that Travis may not be the right guy why in the world would they abandon fiscal responsibility and extend the contract knowing the possible end game scenarios?

[SM#24]

It's not the length of the contract, it's the buyout within it. It's been pretty routine for a while to have a coach on at least a 5 year deal continuously (not just X, but all schools). Coaches need that to recruit. They can tell recruits, I have a 5 year deal, I'll be here your whole career. It's now so standard, anything less than a five year deal would raise red flags.
Now a 5 year deal doesn't mean he is paid all remaining years at full price if they decide to fire him. That's the highly negotiable part. The more successful you are, the bigger the buyout, if schools are less confident, a smaller buyout.

[JTG]

I'm willing to see what happens next year, with Free, Tandy, Miles, Ramsey, and the incoming recruits. All will be Steele guys. That should make for everyone being on the same page, all the time. I did some coaching at the Junior High and HS level in both football and basketball. I had 2 groups of kids, one in football and one in basketball, where things never panned out. They wanted to win, but they only wanted to win "their way". They were pretty much uncoachable. It wasn't the whole teams, but enough that it made a mess of things. I think that is part of what Steele is dealing with this year and last year. Naji is indispensable, but he goes his own way ALOT. Goodin is basically a walking middle finger to Steele. He has to play them, but they account for a number of mistakes. It's very obvious that everyone is not on the same page. I know we'll be young next year, but I think we'll be more cohesive, and play a much better game.

[AviatorX]

You’re clueless if you believe that. We’re not talking about “these” contracts, we’re talking about “a” contract. Specifically the contract between XU and Steele. We’re not the Yankees or the Lakers who can fire a coach without cause and pay millions per the separation agreement. If there is the slightest hint that Travis may not be the right guy why in the world would they abandon fiscal responsibility and extend the contract knowing the possible end game scenarios?

No AD worth their salt is mindlessly extending the range of a max buy out (I'm not sure how Steele's contract is structured, but it's pretty typical for the buy out to shrink over time) alongside these essentially automatic rolling one-year extensions.

[xcellentx]

It's not the length of the contract, it's the buyout within it. It's been pretty routine for a while to have a coach on at least a 5 year deal continuously (not just X, but all schools). Coaches need that to recruit. They can tell recruits, I have a 5 year deal, I'll be here your whole career. It's now so standard, anything less than a five year deal would raise red flags.
Now a 5 year deal doesn't mean he is paid all remaining years at full price if they decide to fire him. That's the highly negotiable part. The more successful you are, the bigger the buyout, if schools are less confident, a smaller buyout.

Correct, buyout is all that matters if you aren't sold on him. 5-6 year deal with say a 1mil buyout is better if you want to get rid of him in 2 years than a 3 year with 2.5mil buyout or so. I don't think we have any idea what the buyout is though.

[GoMuskies]

The buyout (assuming you're talking about the amount the school has to pay to make the coach go away and not the other way around) only shrinks over time if the coach is not successful. A successful coach is going to have his full contract guaranteed absent for-cause firing.

[AviatorX]

The buyout (assuming you're talking about the amount the school has to pay to make the coach go away and not the other way around) only shrinks over time if the coach is not successful. A successful coach is going to have his full contract guaranteed absent for-cause firing.

Sorry, yes, agree with this. I guess what I'm saying is the buyout doesn't change in connection with these "auto-extensions" that basically every school does to tack one year on to the end of the contract. That's my expectation at least, but I've been wrong many times before.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

His years are going to be guaranteed, there is no question about that.

[Final4]

No AD worth their salt is mindlessly extending the range of a max buy out (I'm not sure how Steele's contract is structured, but it's pretty typical for the buy out to shrink over time) alongside these essentially automatic rolling one-year extensions.

You seem like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You’re now saying that no AD would “mindlessly extend” a contract but you said before that the decision to extend/not extend is a “$5 question”…………implying, as an example, that the decision could be made by an Assistant AD on a whim. I’m suggesting that the decision will be given serious consideration by the AD, President and the BoT. I don’t know what the buyout amount is nor the specific language surrounding it. Having said that I do suspect that Xavier's tolerance level for “paying employees to go away” is probably very low.

[AviatorX]

You seem like you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You’re now saying that no AD would “mindlessly extend” a contract but you said before that the decision to extend/not extend is a “$5 question”…………implying, as an example, that the decision could be made by an Assistant AD on a whim. I’m suggesting that the decision will be given serious consideration by the AD, President and the BoT. I don’t know what the buyout amount is nor the specific language surrounding it. Having said that I do suspect that Xavier's tolerance level for “paying employees to go away” is probably very low.

Nope. I said mindlessly renegotiate a buyout. I admit I don't know exactly how Steele's works. Take Archie Miller as an example - the buyout (if IU fires him) is 100% of remaining salary prior to March 2022 and 50% after. I'm guessing this is a relatively typical construct, but admit I could be wrong, especially since we don't have access to Steele's contract.

Let me put it this way - I would be floored if Steele's contract isn't extend through the 2025 season whether Xavier loses by 100 tomorrow night or goes to the Final Four (although admittedly this would likely call for a broader extension).

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I don't "nuance". I speak reality.

Go back and look at every single Xavier message board to the dawn of the Interweb. From The Xavier Roundtable, where I defended Skip vs the constant attacks of DAllen15, to Moose's Xavier Message Board where I defended Matta and Miller, at all times until they screwed Xavier over and left, to the Musketeer Madness Board where I always defended Chris Mack from attacks. I have always had the Coach's back in every case, especially during the tough times. Long term posters know this.
This is different. This Head Coach and this Staff has evident and displayable deficiencies that are keeping this team, and last year's team for that matter from reaching their potential. I gave the benefit of the doubt last year, but not now. I don't think that Steele lacks 'basic basketball knowledge" in total, but there are severe holes, in his offensive scheme and his in game adjustments. He and his staff miss way too many things that the really good coaches don't. I give credit for a solid basic defensive scheme and philosophy and generally good out of bounds play calls that Sean Miller struggled with. Steele has the offense that he's designed from day one, obviously. I have zero idea what offense Steele wants because it's the same one that he's run for 2 years with the same nutty number of turnovers and putting guys in tough positions, while being easy to defense. Of course he can't go to a motion offense at this stage of the year, but he should have been looking harder at what was the best scheme to advantage this roster in preseason and what we have seen all year ain't it . He basically just messed around in Spain and let this team play AAU style without installing a solid system where the ball moves by pass quickly instead of dribbling and the sticking ball. He's been taken to school by almost every coach in this league and we've won games with superior talent vs the opposition instead of smart design, and we've almost lost to teams with severely deficient talent. This is evident.
The biggest problem is that the "Holes" in Steele's basketball acumen are not closing. We've seen the same iish for two years now-this year with better talent than last year. Everybody is hanging their hat on Steele's recruiting, and I'm very happy with Free (who should have been starting since mid December) and KyKy, but Bishop has already been blown out, we have zero tangible idea if Miles and Ramsey can play, and HS kids are just that. His grad transfers have been marginally OK, but not really Big East caliber to date, so we'll see.
There is no tap dance here. I have defended every single coach Xavier has had since Bob Staak because, while they had challenges, you could see that they had lots of juice and acumen. The Baldwin screw-up, and that's exactly what it was, is a microcosm of this staff's, and Steele's issues. Steele has had over 10 years of exposure to great coaches like Miller and Mack, and a lot was not absorbed. The fact that they had to go out and get another Butler connected guy for the bench, and basically the only guy Steele ever consults with in-game, Graves, shows you there were concerning holes in Steele's acumen. It remains. Period.

I see what you see. I've been saying for the past two years (others have also) that Steele wasn't ready for the job when he was hired. The problem is, two years later, he still doesn't seem ready. It isn't about one play-----what happened at the end of this game. It is really, from what I've observed, a failure to learn, to adjust, to put his players in the position for which they are best suited and then helping them prepare to play their best. Admittedly, I don't have a close up view of what's going on but Steele just has not improved. He defaults to the same decisions over and over never seeming to incorporate new information into his thinking and coaching. I just haven't seen him grow into the job.

[XU 23]

This may have already been said, but we were more or less “bad” during Miller’s first two seasons at X. Missed the NIT his first year and needed to win 4 out of 4 to make the tourney as a 14 seed his 2nd year. He still turned out to be a great coach. When you think about it, Steele has already gotten off to a better start to his head coaching career than Sean Miller.

[xavierj]

I see what you see. I've been saying for the past two years (others have also) that Steele wasn't ready for the job when he was hired. The problem is, two years later, he still doesn't seem ready. It isn't about one play-----what happened at the end of this game. It is really, from what I've observed, a failure to learn, to adjust, to put his players in the position for which they are best suited and then helping them prepare to play their best. Admittedly, I don't have a close up view of what's going on but Steele just has not improved. He defaults to the same decisions over and over never seeming to incorporate new information into his thinking and coaching. I just haven't seen him grow into the job.

Do you give him any credit for helping them become a much better defensive team? I know everyone wants to think his offense sucks, but maybe it’s the players. Not bad players but not good offensive players. Travis does not want to play the way they do as far as the offense goes but I think he feels that’s what they have to do to have any chance. He was never a head coach and took over a team that lost 56 points per game and its best returning players were role players that fit ok with a great team the year before. Travis will tell you that every team that wants to win has to have an identity and this teams identity is defense. They lose when they they try to out score teams. Does anyone on here think Naji can thrive in a set motion offense running off screens? If he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, he struggles to score. It is what it is. But I have seen improvement.

This team is better but is just in a really tough league and they lack some pieces. My advice is to buckle up and see it through. Travis knows what he wants and is building it through recruiting. Better days are ahead and they still can accomplish goals this year. He isn’t going any where anytime soon.

[Blue Blooded-05]

This may have already been said, but we were more or less “bad” during Miller’s first two seasons at X. Missed the NIT his first year and needed to win 4 out of 4 to make the tourney as a 14 seed his 2nd year. He still turned out to be a great coach. When you think about it, Steele has already gotten off to a better start to his head coaching career than Sean Miller.

Yes, this has been said. However, in his second year Miller had X playing WAY above their capabilities. Thornton blew his knee out. Finn was booted because he was a dumbass. He won 4 in 4 with a walk-on caliber freshman PG and a center playing on two reconstructed knees.

It is always better to outperform low expectations (Miller) than underperform high expectations (Steele).

[xudash]

I acknowledge that a number of coaching mistakes have been made. I’m not in the huddle. I don’t know all of the specific dynamics taking place. I am a fan, watching my team and seeing on occasion that certain things didn’t work or are not working.

You have to believe that some of it is on the coach and his staff. You absolutely know that some of it is on the players, especially with respect to doing stupid things that, in particular, lead to turnovers or poor shot selection.

But the following also seem to be abundantly clear:

1. Travis is in his second year only, and with clear roster issues.

2. Xavier plays in one of the toughest conferences in the United States (i.e. is it fair to compare a Xavier coach that coached in the A10 to one coaching in the BE?).

We’ve read here that Travis wants to run a better offense, but he is challenged with respect to his personnel mix. Frankly, I am banking on that.

We need the right guy. We need him for to stay for a very long time. I only need to point out Gonzaga and Villanova as examples of why that is the case.

He absolutely must know basketball inside and out.

He certainly gets more time.

[XU 87]

However, in his second year Miller had X playing WAY above their capabilities.

).

Not during the regular season. He had to win the A-10 championship to get in the tourney, and even then got a 14 seed.

The team struggled the following year for more than the first half of the season.

Miller struggled his first two and a half years at X.

[xavierj]

Not during the regular season. He had to win the A-10 championship to get in the tourney, and even then got a 14 seed.

The team struggled the following year for more than the first half of the season.

Miller struggled his first two and a half years at X.

Miller’s third year he lost 9 games and played 1 top 25 team during the season, Alabama and lost. Lost to UC by 10, lost to Creighton and also lost to Duquesne and Bucknell. That team had Drew Lavender, Stanley Burrell, Justin Doellman, Josh Duncan, BJ Raymond, Justin Cage, Brandon Cole and Derrick Brown. That’s a more talented team than we have this season in my opinion. Not to mention a more experienced team. Lavender was a McDonalds All American and Cage and Doellman were seniors who started as freshman on an Elite 8 team. Oh and I would say the current competition is a little stronger now than it was then.

[scoscox]

People were REALLY anti-miller for a long time. Dawn Rogers got run out of town and people were begging bobinski to come back, basically because she hired sean. he got a ton of heat for his first 3 years

[X Factor]

Ya know one thing about this...many here (not saying you have) are making this seem like a team wide issue. It isnt for the most part..the problem is Jones. He gets to the line the most, and hes at 59%. The rest of the team (for the most part) is at 70 or above. While this isnt great, it's not terrible either.

Jones kind of kills us at the line

Jones does hurt X at the line, but the whole team is below average, and even worse in conference play. The conference play FT percentages are laughable for a college basketball team, at any level. The best FT shooter during BE play was Zach Freemantle, a freshman, who made 74% of his FT's.

[Lloyd Braun]

Maybe it was because Sean was a natural leader and point guard, but I always felt that he would bring them to greatness. I have yet to figure Travis out BUT I was always impressed at an opposing teams coach when they would claw back and never give up. This is the first Xavier team I can remember never giving up in any situation. For better or worse. I would credit Steele for this...

[stammina0721]

Ya know, that last play really sucked. If members of the press said they practiced it, we have nothing to dispute that fact. Sometimes, the players no matter how much you are prepared or practice it, eff up. It sucks, I hate it, I really don't want to watch x play a game that will start at 10 on a weeknight, but these guys still are young adults and eff up.

We have absolute horrific execution to refute that fact. Eye test trumps words in a press conference

[stammina0721]

And no... I coach high school kids who don't mess up to that degree. Naji should have ran through that illegal screen knowing his assignment and if he is called for a foul oh well. Going under shows complete lack of preparation for the situation

[Masterofreality]

Are people now doubting the members of the press that said Xavier worked on the last play specifically in practice the day before? I’m pretty sure either Adam Baum or Shannon reported that fact. I believe they were present at practice. Maybe they weren’t. Or I’m misremembering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No. But practicing a Prevent Defense, which is what it looked like, rather than being more aggressive, prevents a win.
Bad strategy if not preparation. Still on the Coach. Period.

[Masterofreality]

Ya know one thing about this...many here (not saying you have) are making this seem like a team wide issue. It isnt for the most part..the problem is Jones. He gets to the line the most, and hes at 59%. The rest of the team (for the most part) is at 70 or above. While this isnt great, it's not terrible either.

Jones kind of kills us at the line

And Jason Carter Missed 3 out of 7..and he’s supposed to be good?

[X Factor]

And Jason Carter Missed 3 out of 7..and he’s supposed to be good?

Pretty sure Carter was a 58% FT shooter in BE play.

[Xville]

I didnt think to separate the ft stats out to BE play. That is startling.

[XUBob]

Well, I’ll be the first to eat crow and take my lumps after tonight’s performance I’m firmly out of the Steele camp. I would have made the hire but unfortunately he has turned out to be the wrong guy, in my opinion. It’s not game strategies, recruiting etc. I just think he is a career assistant. Reminds me of a Bruce Coslet or Dick LeBeau as a head coach. Seems like a good idea but just doesn’t have what it takes. I’ve said for years X would eventually hire the wrong guy, I think this is it. Problem is he will probably get two more years, I hope he doesn’t drag the program too far down. It is unfortunate but I think we have Travis Tuberville on our hands if you know what I mean,

[stammina0721]

I wonder how Steele is going to try to blame the players today? If Xavier is not blowing up John Beilein's phone right now then I don't think anyone associated with the program knows anything.

Literally went from a one seed 2 years ago to losing to DePaul and missing tournament two consecutive years. I know Mack left but the cupboard wasn't that damn bare.

[stammina0721]

I wonder how Steele is going to try to blame the players today? If Xavier is not blowing up John Beilein's phone right now then I don't think anyone associated with the program knows anything.

Literally went from a one seed 2 years ago to losing to DePaul and missing tournament two consecutive years. I know Mack left but the cupboard wasn't that damn bare.

[Backyard Champ]

Horrible coaching down the stretch. I like Steele and think it’s not time to give up yet- I can see a bright future.


At the same time I can admit, today’s loss is 100 percent on him. Not sure why we tried to get the ball to Tandy so much in the end- bad coaching.

[Xavier]

Losing to DePaul in a must win game is perfect cap to the last two years. Frankly, you can’t tell the difference from the first game Steele took over to tonight. If not for a few miracles from Naji, this is a .500 team. I’m in the boat of starting new. But it’s a bad precedent to set for new coaches so it won’t happen.

[drudy23]

1. Outside of Tyrique, who emerged as a beast, no improvement in offensive flow in 2 years
2. I will miss Tyrique - he left it out there
3. Steele needs a super strong 1A on the bench immediately
4. In my eyes, the new leaders on this team are Scruggs and Freemantle - they need to kick ass and take names to not allow the type of play that occurred this year
5. Steele gets one more year - pressure is on starting now

[stammina0721]

Losing to DePaul in a must win game is perfect cap to the last two years. Frankly, you can’t tell the difference from the first game Steele took over to tonight. If not for a few miracles from Naji, this is a .500 team. I’m in the boat of starting new. But it’s a bad precedent to set for new coaches so it won’t happen.

It's not a bad precedent to fire a guy after two years when he accomplished something that has not been seen in decades in this program.

It's one thing if the team didn't have the talent to compete but got better. There is not one person who could keep a straight face and say Xavier players got better over the last two years. Players have regressed and you have to stop regression before it permeates the program.

[XU 23]

When did X last miss back-to-back NCAA tourneys? My guess is that it was during the Prosser years.

[AviatorX]

Does anyone have the list of high major coaches who have been fired for performance after two seasons? No one ever answers this.

[SkyWalker]

Does anyone have the list of high major coaches who have been fired for performance after two seasons? No one ever answers this.

Is Steele a high major coach.

[xavierj]

When did X last miss back-to-back NCAA tourneys? My guess is that it was during the Prosser years.

Not sure. Mack almost accomplished it. Missing one and then going to play in game and flaming out.

[stammina0721]

Does anyone have the list of high major coaches who have been fired for performance after two seasons? No one ever answers this.

Wasn't Gillespie fired after two years at UK?

[D-West & PO-Z]

You can't fire him after two years. You have to see what next year brings, although if Scruggs goes too I dont see how next year will be any better.

Only way you could possibly move on is if you knew Beilein wanted the job.

[stammina0721]

Does anyone have the list of high major coaches who have been fired for performance after two seasons? No one ever answers this.

And answer is yes. He coached 2007 fired 2009

[AviatorX]

Is Steele a high major coach.

Depends if you consider Xavier a high-major program.

[AviatorX]

And answer is yes. He coached 2007 fired 2009

He had a slight alcohol problem and it’s UK. If that’s the example, good luck making a case there’s any chance in hell Steele is shown the door.

[stammina0721]

You can't fire him after two years. You have to see what next year brings, although if Scruggs goes too I dont see how next year will be any better.

Only way you could possibly move on is if you knew Beilein wanted the job.

And Xavier is irresponsible if they are not on the phone with him right now. You have to make that call if you are administration

[xavierj]

Is Steele a high major coach.

Too soon to tell. Should know in a couple of years. To be honest Xavier hasn’t been as good as we all all like to think. Mack really didn’t elevate the program as much as I think he could have. He missed on a lot of guys and flamed out the first weekend with his two best teams. I mean he had two really good Big East years and also had two 9-9 and one 10-8. He went 9-9 in the Big East with Bluiett as a junior. He missed on a lot of guys. I don’t think Xavier has accomplished anything special. Yes we had a miracle elite 8 run after a mediocre season prior to that run three years ago. It’s time to take time and get this thing right. Let Travis continue to build through recruiting. You change now and lose the good recruits plus Free and Tandy and this program is really screwed.

[stammina0721]

He had a slight alcohol problem and it’s UK. If that’s the example, good luck making a case there’s any chance in hell Steele is shown the door.

You asked a question I answered it. You said high major coach you got your answer

[OTRMUSKIE]

Yes it was Skip who was the worse coach in my 44 years not anymore. Travis as of right now is the worse coach in my 44 years. I still have faith in Travis. Hopefully this will be it for X. Good need is they will prob cancel the dance.

[AviatorX]

You asked a question I answered it. You said high major coach you got your answer

Yes, thank you. Believe it or not, I knew who Billy Clyde was before I asked. The point is that’s not a thing that happens.

[stammina0721]

Yes, thank you. Believe it or not, I knew who Billy Clyde was before I asked. The point is that’s not a thing that happens.

But it did happen. UK saw a chance to get a better guy and jumped all over it. Xavier has a chance to get a better guy and should jump all over it. He may say no but they have to try

[stammina0721]

Just imagine this hypothetical. You go to bed and wake up tomorrow to find out Xavier has hired John Beilein. What is your first reaction? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would be very excited. That's why X has to try

[Backyard Champ]

Just imagine this hypothetical. You go to bed and wake up tomorrow to find out Xavier has hired John Beilein. What is your first reaction? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would be very excited. That's why X has to try

He’s already bolted a high profile job.

It may take a couple of years, but I think I’d rather have Steele. Steele will stay, we won’t be having another coaching search in 7-10 years and hoping it works out.

Steele has 2 all freshman BE players, and a top 20 class (I think?) coming in. I’d rather stick with Steele to see how this plays out.

We weren’t far off this year. Top 15 SOS and went 19-13, losing 7-8 of those by two possessions or less. Frustrating because we should have had a better record. But not as bad/far off as everyone thinks, IMO.

[UCGRAD4X]

I'm tired of beating around the bush. We need to have higher expectations for this team. This is entirely unacceptable. It needs to be understood that this kind of performance has consequences. Yes, the players will move on. They can;t be let go. Travis did not hold players accountable for their lack of performance, Could we be in much worse position if he benched some players and used walk-ons? The lack of leadership on this team was undeniable. That comes from the top. Travis has got to go. That is the only way forward at this point. A statement needs to be made. Travis had opportunities to make that statement and he didn't. Sorry, but it's time to pull the plug.

[stammina0721]

He’s already bolted a high profile job.

It may take a couple of years, but I think I’d rather have Steele. Steele will stay, we won’t be having another coaching search in 7-10 years and hoping it works out.

Steele has 2 all freshman BE players, and a top 20 class (I think?) coming in. I’d rather stick with Steele to see how this plays out.

We weren’t far off this year. Top 15 SOS and went 19-13, losing 7-8 of those by two possessions or less. Frustrating because we should have had a better record. But not as bad/far off as everyone thinks, IMO.

I get the points here but there are too many red flags. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize a bad coach vs a good coach in a bad situation. Steele is a bad coach.

Coaching is not about all strategy and game plan. The best coaches can put their finger on the pulse of their teams and put them in the best position for success. Steele falls grossly short here. He was never on the same page as this team. On top of that he was also abused by other conference coaches. He is out of his league here.

This also doesn't play into a coaching evaluation, but it also rubs me the wrong way when a coach lays blame on his players and takes no responsibility himself. Also rubs me the wrong way when he runs from the post game interview after shitting the bed. Is that the kind of leader we want running this program? A guy who deflects blame and runs away from post game duties after a rough loss?

That may be being petty but that is not a leader of young men in my eye

[Muskie in dayton]

He’s already bolted a high profile job.

It may take a couple of years, but I think I’d rather have Steele. Steele will stay, we won’t be having another coaching search in 7-10 years and hoping it works out.

Steele has 2 all freshman BE players, and a top 20 class (I think?) coming in. I’d rather stick with Steele to see how this plays out.

We weren’t far off this year. Top 15 SOS and went 19-13, losing 7-8 of those by two possessions or less. Frustrating because we should have had a better record. But not as bad/far off as everyone thinks, IMO.

There’s no reason at this point to think anything will change. He has declined as a coach over two years. He has also proven he can coach too-20 recruiting classes to a top-60 level. You’re right we weren’t that far off this year - not that far off from the BE cellar and the Most underperforming X team of my life.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I get the points here but there are too many red flags. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize a bad coach vs a good coach in a bad situation. Steele is a bad coach.

Coaching is not about all strategy and game plan. The best coaches can put their finger on the pulse of their teams and put them in the best position for success. Steele falls grossly short here. He was never on the same page as this team. On top of that he was also abused by other conference coaches. He is out of his league here.

This also doesn't play into a coaching evaluation, but it also rubs me the wrong way when a coach lays blame on his players and takes no responsibility himself. Also rubs me the wrong way when he runs from the post game interview after shitting the bed. Is that the kind of leader we want running this program? A guy who deflects blame and runs away from post game duties after a rough loss?

That may be being petty but that is not a leader of young men in my eye

I agree with everything you (and others) have said about Steele. He wasn't ready when he was hired and needed to grow into the job. That said, I would have made the hire. It is reasonable to expect an individual will grow into a job---lots of hires are made that way. But, right now, it sure seems like it will end up as a bad hire. And, I think you are dead on that coaching is about more than the X's and O's. BTW, I think Steele has failed that test although I cannot disagree with the posters who note the team's defensive improvement, development of Jones, recruiting successes (although those successes may yet turn out to over-rated). But, most importantly to me, Steele simply has not demonstrated the traits and behavior of a strong leader.

But, it would be a very bad move to cut him loose after just two years. Whatever time is left on his contract (two years?) X has to honor the terms. I certainly would not extend although stating that, I'm ignorant of what effect not extending may have on recruiting. Not extending sends a signal also. Seems like that could kill his recruiting efforts.

It feels now like a real low point in Xavier basketball. I'm hoping we all look back, in a year, and regret our criticism of Steele. I would love to say I was wrong in my assessment of him. But, I've been watching him for two years and like Stamina0721 I do not see leadership; I do not see command. I just don't see it.

My suggestion to our AD is, right now, find a good lieutenant, a backup head coach, so to speak. Maybe we don't call that person exactly that---maybe its adviser, consigliere, whatever. But, this team needs some leadership and after two years, I think were it in Steele, we would have, by now, witnessed it. Perhaps Steele will welcome the help. Perhaps not. But, in the absence of either firing him now (which just isn't realistic) or prolonging the agony (furthering the decline of this program) perhaps adding a recognized and respected veteran to the coaching staff, can stem the bleeding. Somehow our AD needs to figure out how to get this done.

[bjf123]

When did X last miss back-to-back NCAA tourneys? My guess is that it was during the Prosser years.

Yep. 98/99 and 99/00. This year’s team is the first to miss back to back years this century.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xville]

If and I think it is a huge if
...naji and paul come back, Next year is a make or break for Steele. I think two years for anyone is not enough time, and three won't be if paul and Scruggs leave because the team will be extremely young.

With all that said, I agree with you all regarding theeadership qualities. I just dont see it right now....i liken it to the great salesperson that steps into management for the first time...it is extremely difficult for many in that situation to suddenly turn on the leadership switch, and instead tries to still be the colleague or goes the opposite way and becomes a micromanaging dictator.

[SlimKibbles]

Travis has upperclassmen who had been used to him as the assistant coach who would talk to them, pick them up after Coach Mack yelled at them. Now he’s the one yelling at them and they haven’t responded well. Maybe the relationship has soured because of that. I don’t know. I think Travis needs to have “his guys” who have only seen him as HC before X has success.

[xavierj]

If and I think it is a huge if
...naji and paul come back, Next year is a make or break for Steele. I think two years for anyone is not enough time, and three won't be if paul and Scruggs leave because the team will be extremely young.

With all that said, I agree with you all regarding theeadership qualities. I just dont see it right now....i liken it to the great salesperson that steps into management for the first time...it is extremely difficult for many in that situation to suddenly turn on the leadership switch, and instead tries to still be the colleague or goes the opposite way and becomes a micromanaging dictator.

Naji is gone and needs to be. Good talent but is not the best for this team. He can’t function in an offensive system. He’s kind of like the team. Great at times and bad at times which = the results we saw this year. Travis needs his guys and guys that fit his system. I am sorry but at the end of the day, Naji doesn’t fit his system. If people think the offensive system we saw this year is the one Travis will use once he gets the players he needs, I don’t know what to tell you. He ran the system he did starting middle of last year because he had no choice. Blame that on him if you want, but it’s reality but it will also change. Xavier needs to take the next step that they have not in the last 20 years. I am tired of the mediocre make a lucky run every few years program. Time to take the time required and get it right and start being near the top of the Big East, high seeded team regularly.

[drudy23]

[QUOTE=Xville;670744


With all that said, I agree with you all regarding theeadership qualities. I just dont see it right now....i liken it to the great salesperson that steps into management for the first time...it is extremely difficult for many in that situation to suddenly turn on the leadership switch, and instead tries to still be the colleague or goes the opposite way and becomes a micromanaging dictator.[/QUOTE]

This is a great analogy.

[drudy23]

With all that said, I agree with you all regarding theeadership qualities. I just dont see it right now....i liken it to the great salesperson that steps into management for the first time...it is extremely difficult for many in that situation to suddenly turn on the leadership switch, and instead tries to still be the colleague or goes the opposite way and becomes a micromanaging dictator.

This is a great analogy.

[xavierj]

You want to know how very average Chris Mack’s recruiting was as a head coach. Take a look at this since he took over. 19 guys he signed, never made it 4 years at Xavier, a lot not even three years, and it wasn’t because they were all going pro. Some really bad classes. In my opinion that’s why we are where we are. You can’t miss on two guys every year and then have classes that you get absolutely nothing out of. You may say this has nothing to do with Fire Travis, but I think what went on the last 10 years is kind of why Xavier is where they are instead of where they could be. Have patience and get it right. If not we are all up shit creek. Xavier is not a top 20 job right now, but it should be. You can blame that on Travis, but it goes much deeper than that.

https://247sports.com/college/xavier/Season/2009-Basketball/Commits/

[Masterofreality]

I don't "nuance". I speak reality.

Go back and look at every single Xavier message board to the dawn of the Interweb. From The Xavier Roundtable, where I defended Skip vs the constant attacks of DAllen15, to Moose's Xavier Message Board where I defended Matta and Miller, at all times until they screwed Xavier over and left, to the Musketeer Madness Board where I always defended Chris Mack from attacks. I have always had the Coach's back in every case, especially during the tough times. Long term posters know this.
This is different. This Head Coach and this Staff has evident and displayable deficiencies that are keeping this team, and last year's team for that matter from reaching their potential. I gave the benefit of the doubt last year, but not now. I don't think that Steele lacks 'basic basketball knowledge" in total, but there are severe holes, in his offensive scheme and his in game adjustments. He and his staff miss way too many things that the really good coaches don't. I give credit for a solid basic defensive scheme and philosophy and generally good out of bounds play calls that Sean Miller struggled with. Steele has the offense that he's designed from day one, obviously. I have zero idea what offense Steele wants because it's the same one that he's run for 2 years with the same nutty number of turnovers and putting guys in tough positions, while being easy to defense. Of course he can't go to a motion offense at this stage of the year, but he should have been looking harder at what was the best scheme to advantage this roster in preseason and what we have seen all year ain't it . He basically just messed around in Spain and let this team play AAU style without installing a solid system where the ball moves by pass quickly instead of dribbling and the sticking ball. He's been taken to school by almost every coach in this league and we've won games with superior talent vs the opposition instead of smart design, and we've almost lost to teams with severely deficient talent. This is evident.
The biggest problem is that the "Holes" in Steele's basketball acumen are not closing. We've seen the same iish for two years now-this year with better talent than last year. Everybody is hanging their hat on Steele's recruiting, and I'm very happy with Free (who should have been starting since mid December) and KyKy, but Bishop has already been blown out, we have zero tangible idea if Miles and Ramsey can play, and HS kids are just that. His grad transfers have been marginally OK, but not really Big East caliber to date, so we'll see.
There is no tap dance here. I have defended every single coach Xavier has had since Bob Staak because, while they had challenges, you could see that they had lots of juice and acumen. The Baldwin screw-up, and that's exactly what it was, is a microcosm of this staff's, and Steele's issues. Steele has had over 10 years of exposure to great coaches like Miller and Mack, and a lot was not absorbed. The fact that they had to go out and get another Butler connected guy for the bench, and basically the only guy Steele ever consults with in-game, Graves, shows you there were concerning holes in Steele's acumen. It remains. Period.

Soooooo, how we feeling this morning?
Add to the list of Steele Accomplishments- Losing to DePaul on night one of the Big East Tournament. Wonderful.
Did he show up at the Postgame Interview with Byron or no?

[Masterofreality]

You want to know how very average Chris Mack’s recruiting was as a head coach. Take a look at this since he took over. 19 guys he signed, never made it 4 years at Xavier, a lot not even three years, and it wasn’t because they were all going pro. Some really bad classes. In my opinion that’s why we are where we are. You can’t miss on two guys every year and then have classes that you get absolutely nothing out of. You may say this has nothing to do with Fire Travis, but I think what went on the last 10 years is kind of why Xavier is where they are instead of where they could be. Have patience and get it right. If not we are all up shit creek. Xavier is not a top 20 job right now, but it should be. You can blame that on Travis, but it goes much deeper than that.

https://247sports.com/college/xavier/Season/2009-Basketball/Commits/

Somehow I don’t remember you saying that in 2016,2017,2018...
Big East Championship, #1 seed, etc, etc, etc..

[xavierj]

Somehow I don’t remember you saying that in 2016,2017,2018...
Big East Championship, #1 seed, etc, etc, etc..

Fools gold. One year they went 9-9 in conference and had to recover from losing 6 straight league games. The other two first weekend exits. I want better and its going to take a little time. We should get to Nova status in this league. We have not been close to that since we joined the league, even when we won it. Blame that on anyone you want, but it’s reality.

[Masterofreality]

Fools gold. One year they went 9-9 in conference and had to recover from losing 6 straight league games. The other two first weekend exits. I want better and its going to take a little time. We should get to Nova status in this league. We have not been close to that since we joined the league, even when we won it. Blame that on anyone you want, but it’s reality.

I’ll take Fools Gold over a Fool anytime

[xavierj]

I want better than what we have done regardless of where the fault lies. If you want an occasional top 3 Big East year and a lucky run every so often, have fun. See you in a couple of years.

[paulxu]

Scruggs is out, and Naji/Kyky are 0-11 from 3...and that is Steele's fault?

Fire Roy Williams. With the unlimited resources of UNC, he limped into a tie for LAST place in the ACC, and got blown out by 28 last night against Syracuse.

I think you guys need a little perspective.

[drudy23]

Did he show up at the Postgame Interview with Byron or no?

Sounds like he did not. Accountability isn't his strong suit either.

I'd really like Byron's take on this.

[Xville]

I know no one wants to hear it because its DePaul, but not having scruggs these last 3 games killed X. It meant playing q way more than we had since the middle of the season and x had zero bench besides tandy. I know it sounds like a cop out, but shit just think what the team looked like when scruggs got those two quick fouls in the first halves of games....team usually looked effing awful.

[Lamont Sanford]

I'm tired of beating around the bush. We need to have higher expectations for this team. This is entirely unacceptable. It needs to be understood that this kind of performance has consequences. Yes, the players will move on. They can;t be let go. Travis did not hold players accountable for their lack of performance, Could we be in much worse position if he benched some players and used walk-ons? The lack of leadership on this team was undeniable. That comes from the top. Travis has got to go. That is the only way forward at this point. A statement needs to be made. Travis had opportunities to make that statement and he didn't. Sorry, but it's time to pull the plug.

Amen brother. Time to shake things up on the coaching staff. Keep Graves and Hayes, but I think Ben Johnson is gonna be the scapegoat and need to go. Need to bring in a veteran coach to stabilize the coaching staff and teach Travis how to lead. Next year is gonna be brutal with the current lineup and no solid post depth.

[drudy23]

Amen brother. Time to shake things up on the coaching staff. Keep Graves and Hayes, but I think Ben Johnson is gonna be the scapegoat and need to go. Need to bring in a veteran coach to stabilize the coaching staff and teach Travis how to lead. Next year is gonna be brutal with the current lineup and no solid post depth.

Does anyone else have a sense that Steele would have to be pushed to make changes in the coaching staff? He always talks about all of his players and coaches being "my guys", almost like giving them negative feedback, benching them, quickly finding new coaches, is against his nature as someone who always puts so much loyalty in "his guys".

In recent years, I've heard Xavier's administration refer to the head coaching job as the CEO of the basketball program. That's much deeper than a coach who is great at knowing basketball. I think this is where the struggle is with Steele. This job is much much bigger than just relying on basketball knowledge and acumen. Leadership and management are almost equally, or even more, important.

[xcellentx]

Just imagine this hypothetical. You go to bed and wake up tomorrow to find out Xavier has hired John Beilein. What is your first reaction? I'm willing to bet a lot of people would be very excited. That's why X has to try

X can try whatever they want, you aren't getting Beilein. He was paid 3.8 million at Michigan, you think X can afford that? If so, why did we let Mack walk at 4 million?

[Xavier]

I know no one wants to hear it because its DePaul, but not having scruggs these last 3 games killed X. It meant playing q way more than we had since the middle of the season and x had zero bench besides tandy. I know it sounds like a cop out, but shit just think what the team looked like when scruggs got those two quick fouls in the first halves of games....team usually looked effing awful.

Meh, its the truth. If nothing else it keeps Q off the court. I wanted nothing more than Q to step up...I know how hard he works on his game. He just wasn't talented enough and him playing so much (even last night) was one of the biggest factors in the loss.

[xavierj]

X can try whatever they want, you aren't getting Beilein. He was paid 3.8 million at Michigan, you think X can afford that? If so, why did we let Mack walk at 4 million?

Agree. John Beilein is 67 years old. He has missed the NCAA tourney 14 times, including five times at West Virginia and Michigan. Two of his first three years at Michigan he had a losing record. He took Richmond to the NCAA tourney his first year when them were in the CAA, but then missed his last four years there. But yeah let’s try to get him and the $4 million he will ask for.

[SkyWalker]

I don't know how to create a poll on here, but it would be interesting to see how many posters really think Steele should be fired.

[IM4X]

Naji is gone and needs to be. Good talent but is not the best for this team. He canÂ’t function in an offensive system. HeÂ’s kind of like the team. Great at times and bad at times which = the results we saw this year. Travis needs his guys and guys that fit his system. I am sorry but at the end of the day, Naji doesnÂ’t fit his system. If people think the offensive system we saw this year is the one Travis will use once he gets the players he needs, I donÂ’t know what to tell you. He ran the system he did starting middle of last year because he had no choice. Blame that on him if you want, but itÂ’s reality but it will also change. Xavier needs to take the next step that they have not in the last 20 years. I am tired of the mediocre make a lucky run every few years program. Time to take the time required and get it right and start being near the top of the Big East, high seeded team regularly.

Sometimes we forget that there were basically three talented veterans and only two promising freshmen on this team. This team simply didn’t have enough talented players. There was such little contribution from so many players Naji simply had limited help almost all season and he was forced to do more than he should have. Q regressed to the point wheee he couldn’t be counted on for anything on offense and he and Carter and Moore often either tried to contribute and failed miserably or they simply kept feeding Naji the ball, expecting him to make the big plays. Now you take Paul out of the line up and we have such a drop off in talent (a player who can’t shoot or score replaces one of the best shooters and scorers).

I want Naji back. I don’t think it is so much that Naji doesn’t fit in “the system” as much as there are simply too many players who can’t be counted on to do their part and thus it is thrust back on Naji. This is why Naji feels forced to try to make more plays that ultimately backfire. I do think of the incoming class and Miles possibly may be able to be counted on to contribute... if someone new can step up and make some 3s (Wilcher)...if we have a PG who can drive and actually score or dish without turning it over or traveling (Odom), if someone else comes along who is a natural slasher (C Jones) if we have a someone coming in who can develop into a bit of Tyrique but who is taller and can be an even easier target to get the ball too..(Miles) then maybe, just maybe Naji will be not feel obligated to play so many roles on the team he will be able to stick to what he does best and count on others to do what they do best.

[xuwillie]

Couldn't disagree more. We had plenty of talent to make the tournament and probably win one game. And it's time for Naji to move on. Don't think you can consistently win with that type of play. 1 good play, 1 bad play

[Xville]

I don't know how to create a poll on here, but it would be interesting to see how many posters really think Steele should be fired.

Maybe x-man can set up one of his scientific polls for us

[Mrs. Garrett]

So much of this season's failure comes down to the breakdown of basic fundamentals - poor shot selection, bad turnovers, inability to make free throws at a reasonable rate. To me that comes down to coaching. Just an inability to get through to the players.

[Final4]

I’m ready to close the book on this edition (this year and last year) of Xavier basketball. Jones and Q are now gone and I’m hoping that Naji and Scruggs decide to leave as well. This group’s legacy will be the first group to miss the dance in two consecutive years for nearly 40 years.

I have no way of knowing this but I’ve always suspected that Naji, Q and Scruggs never fully respected and recognized Travis as “their” head coach. And as a first time head coach I’m not sure Travis ever figured out how to handle the situation.

I don’t know if Travis is the right guy or not but I don’t think we need to wait four years to figure it out. Get Scruggs and Naji out of the locker room and next year it will be essentially all his guys. I want to see what that group can do. Will obviously be very young so my expectations are low. But do they play better together as a unit. Do they play smarter. Make FT’s. Do they improve as the season progresses.

[GoMuskies]

Maybe x-man can set up one of his scientific polls for us

OK, I don't fully agree with you on the relevant point on that thread....but this is funny. Public reps as the coronavirus is keeping me down.

[GoMuskies]

I don't know how to create a poll on here, but it would be interesting to see how many posters really think Steele should be fired.

I'd vote that we're in the "stern talking to" phase of the employment cycle. Not the firing phase. This thing hasn't yet been a complete disaster. Just a small trash can fire as opposed to a whole dumpster.

[IM4X]

Couldn't disagree more. We had plenty of talent to make the tournament and probably win one game. And it's time for Naji to move on. Don't think you can consistently win with that type of play. 1 good play, 1 bad play

We did have enough talent to beat DePaul last night and should have, but without Paul on the floor, there is absolutely not enough talent to win more than maybe one game in the NCAA tournament (had we gotten in) and certainly no more than two with Paul.

I agree the coaching was not good last night, but goodness Q was a no show on offense (everything was quick pass back to Naji like the ball was a hot potato). The same with Carter and Moore. Where is the talent? Jones was solid. Paul was on the bench and as good as Freemantle was at times he also kept taking 8 footers and missing. The big fella needed to learn to drive and take a higher percentage shot.

This is a team that should have done better than it did this year, but at the same time is no where near as talented as the teams we have been used to seeing over most of the past 20+ years.

[Lamont Sanford]

I'd vote that we're in the "stern talking to" phase of the employment cycle. Not the firing phase. This thing hasn't yet been a complete disaster. Just a small trash can fire as opposed to a whole dumpster.

Next year we will be very young and most likely not make the NCAA tourney for the third consecutive year. There is no way in hell they make the tourney next year with the current returnees (Carter, Freemantle, Tandy, James, Ramsey and Miles) plus the three signed Freshmen (Jones, Wilcher and Odom). Do you fire Steele then? Why wait. Turn the page now.

[Xville]

Next year we will be very young and most likely not make the NCAA tourney for the third consecutive year. There is no way in hell they make the tourney next year with the current returnees (Carter, Freemantle, Tandy, James, Ramsey and Miles) plus the three signed Freshmen (Jones, Wilcher and Odom). Do you fire Steele then? Why wait. Turn the page now.

I think scruggs returns...I didnt think that at the beginning of the year and I have no inside info to back it up, but just have the feeling.

If and it's a big if naji and scruggs come back, steele gets next year and that's that. If they both leave, steele gets two years only because the roster is going to be so damn young....I'd say even in this case, steele and his players need to show me some growth for him to get a 4th year.

[boozehound]

I've heard nothing to indicate Naji or Scruggs coming back, but that would be nice.

This team has 4 really big problems:

1. No point guard play at all. That isn't going to cut it in the Big East. You can't have Naji Marshall initiate the offense. He isn't fast enough, doesn't have a good enough handle, and it hurts his ability to do what he does best which is score.

2. Poor perimeter shooting: No consistent outside threat allows teams to pack it in on defense.

3. Poor FT Shooting: This team would have at least 4 more wins if they could shoot FT's at even a decent clip

4. Poor decision making: Particularly at the end of games. No explanation necessary. Just see the tape of the last few mins of the last 2 games.

Some of those are personnel issues, some of them are coaching issues, many are both. When you consider some of those glaring issues we have actually done OK, thanks mostly to Jones playing at an elite level (except for FTs) along with Marshall and to a lesser degree Scruggs. Goodin has been awful.

[IM4X]

In recent years, I've heard Xavier's administration refer to the head coaching job as the CEO of the basketball program. That's much deeper than a coach who is great at knowing basketball. I think this is where the struggle is with Steele. This job is much much bigger than just relying on basketball knowledge and acumen. Leadership and management are almost equally, or even more, important.

I always thought the “I’m the CEO” coaches sometimes bring up, is a bunch of bullsh!+ that gets in the way of those coaches just doing what they are supposed to do. Yes, head coaches (whether in basketball or football) need to do more than coach, but most coaches who get caught up in that self inflated nonsense end up losing focus on what really matters- winning games. You never hear Jay Wright or Coach K telling anyone they are the CEO of the basketball program. They just do what it takes to make their team elite... and they leave it at that.

I will add that I believe I heard Steel dismiss the “CEO” title in a press conference one time, which to me was refreshing to hear. No one is going to grade a coach on how good of a CEO he is, just on how well he recruits, how well he coaches and how often his team wins.

[joe titan]

Amen brother. Time to shake things up on the coaching staff. Keep Graves and Hayes, but I think Ben Johnson is gonna be the scapegoat and need to go. Need to bring in a veteran coach to stabilize the coaching staff and teach Travis how to lead. Next year is gonna be brutal with the current lineup and no solid post depth.

Thought that was Graves' role already.

[IM4X]

Thought that was Graves' role already.

That was my understanding too.

[xavierj]

Next year we will be very young and most likely not make the NCAA tourney for the third consecutive year. There is no way in hell they make the tourney next year with the current returnees (Carter, Freemantle, Tandy, James, Ramsey and Miles) plus the three signed Freshmen (Jones, Wilcher and Odom). Do you fire Steele then? Why wait. Turn the page now.

So you want to turn the page and risk losing all the talent Travis is bringing in? That’s crazy. You think they won’t make the tourney next year but want to risk losing the guys he brought in this year and has signed for next year. We wouldn’t make the tourney for like another five years after that if we are lucky. What coach you bringing in that says yeah, I win big my first two years or I am gone. Some people need to think some things through. Now if Travis looks the same when Tandy and Free are juniors then yeah it’s not working. My guess is when Tandy and Free are juniors and you have Odom running the point with Miles manning the paint and Wilcher nailing three’s, with more talent on the bench, that many of us are saying man we need to pay Travis...

[drudy23]

I always thought the “I’m the CEO” coaches sometimes bring up, is a bunch of bullsh!+ that gets in the way of those coaches just doing what they are supposed to do. Yes, head coaches (whether in basketball or football) need to do more than coach, but most coaches who get caught up in that self inflated nonsense end up losing focus on what really matters- winning games. You never hear Jay Wright or Coach K telling anyone they are the CEO of the basketball program. They just do what it takes to make their team elite... and they leave it at that.

I will add that I believe I heard Steel dismiss the “CEO” title in a press conference one time, which to me was refreshing to hear. No one is going to grade a coach on how good of a CEO he is, just on how well he recruits, how well he coaches and how often his team wins.

I don't disagree with the "image" aspect of your argument, but I think being good at the "other" things leads to wins as well. It's just not as obvious.

But you're right, the best aren't touting their fantastic management skills.

[bleedXblue]

We didn't get any better at improving the weaknesses of this team from day 1: turnovers, bad decisions, bad shots, poor FT shooting. I think the coaches and players share this responsibility. Travis has next year to really show his mettle. I don't necessarily think he has to go to the tourney. Bu,t he does have to show his ability to coach up his team, correct mistakes and move the program forward in the right direction. If he can't, then........

[drudy23]

I guess to put another way - and trust me, I hate using Duke in this example, for various reasons, one being Coack K is top 5 all time.

Whatever Coach K does to hold kids accountable to his ways works. There are certain expectations of team cohesion, leadership, accountability, and "we before me" in every player, coach, and assistant in that program. There may be years where their talent is down, and they're not as good. But you NEVER see a Duke team exhibit the attributes this team had all year (terrible cohesion, whiny players, hero ball, regression, same mistakes, etc, etc). That is a direct result of accountability to the team and each other, and it makes a difference. I bet Coach K says it makes ALL the difference.

Teams like Villanova and Michigan State also have this, and even the "lesser" consistent programs like Creighton, and Gonzaga, and before the last two years....Xavier. That piece seems like a distant memory for this program and I think that hits squarely on the leadership of the head coach. Whatever he is doing isn't getting that result.

I'd like to hear some things from Steele around this like "I have to do some soul searching", "I have to find the heartbeat of this program", "I have to find a way to get this program aligned to what we're about" - I've yet to hear that kind of talk from Steele. It's always something else. That's most concerning to me.

He's going to get another 1-2 years to figure it out, but the change needs to start with him.

[xavierj]

We didn't get any better at improving the weaknesses of this team from day 1: turnovers, bad decisions, bad shots, poor FT shooting. I think the coaches and players share this responsibility. Travis has next year to really show his mettle. I don't necessarily think he has to go to the tourney. Bu,t he does have to show his ability to coach up his team, correct mistakes and move the program forward in the right direction. If he can't, then........

I agree with this. I think he has put a lot of his overall on plan what he will do with the guys he recruits. He will most likely just have his guys next year. So if he is right, the style of play will be different. They may not win a ton but we should be able to see future potential or lack there of.

[xavierj]

I guess to put another way - and trust me, I hate using Duke in this example, for various reasons, one being Coack K is top 5 all time.

Whatever Coach K does to hold kids accountable to his ways works. There are certain expectations of team cohesion, leadership, accountability, and "we before me" in every player, coach, and assistant in that program. There may be years where their talent is down, and they're not as good. But you NEVER see a Duke team exhibit the attributes this team had all year (terrible cohesion, whiny players, hero ball, regression, same mistakes, etc, etc). That is a direct result of accountability to the team and each other, and it makes a difference. I bet Coach K says it makes ALL the difference.

Teams like Villanova and Michigan State also have this, and even the "lesser" consistent programs like Creighton, and Gonzaga, and before the last two years....Xavier. That piece seems like a distant memory for this program and I think that hits squarely on the leadership of the head coach. Whatever he is doing isn't getting that result.

I'd like to hear some things from Steele around this like "I have to do some soul searching", "I have to find the heartbeat of this program", "I have to find a way to get this program aligned to what we're about" - I've yet to hear that kind of talk from Steele. It's always something else. That's most concerning to me.

He's going to get another 1-2 years to figure it out, but the change needs to start with him.

I hear what you are saying but you shouldn’t have used Xavier as an example. Chris Mack ran guys off at a high rate and also had players like Jalen Reynolds, and Myles Davis that were whiney and did dumb things. Also when Xavier flamed our the first weekend two of Chris Mack’s last three years, they did some dumb things that cost them both the Wisconsin and Florida State games. I mean totally blew both games. Now the other teams you mentioned, minus Creighton, are big time programs. I wouldn’t put Xavier in that category. Also the other programs mentioned have had the same coach for like over 20 to 30 years each.

[bjf123]

Just read through too many posts to quote them all, so here’s my take on some of the issues. Do I think Steele should be fired? No. He gets at least one more year. As someone else said, it’s possible that there was just a friction / respect issue between Steele and Q and Naji resulting in what appeared to all of us to be either “coaching” or “low basketball IQ”, depending on which side is being blamed at that moment.

Of the “core four”, I think only Paul might be back. Someone else also said that Steele needs to have a chance with players that have only known him to be the head coach. That will happen next year, with the possible exception of Paul.

I agree that next year is going to be tough, and we could be looking at missing the tournament for 3 straight years. Using the 82-83 season as the starting point, which was our first time in the NCAA since 1961, we’ve NEVER missed it 3 straight years. Should that happen, I won’t be surprised if Steele gets fired. I know a lot of people here will be calling for it.

Having said that next year will be tough, I think the year after could be very good. KyKy and Zach would be juniors, and next year’s incoming class will have a year of Big East play under the belts and be sophomores. I just don’t know if Steele can survive until then without. BIG change in the play of next year’s team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

Sounds like he did not. Accountability isn't his strong suit either.

I'd really like Byron's take on this.

Remember when people took me to task for calling out Steele for not showing up for the postgame AND his contracted radio show earlier this year after horrendous losses? Hmmmmm.

Good times!

[Masterofreality]

Next year we will be very young and most likely not make the NCAA tourney for the third consecutive year. There is no way in hell they make the tourney next year with the current returnees (Carter, Freemantle, Tandy, James, Ramsey and Miles) plus the three signed Freshmen (Jones, Wilcher and Odom). Do you fire Steele then? Why wait. Turn the page now.

Welp. Part of the problem with firing Steele now is that Wilcher, CJones & Odom could just opt out of their LOI’s and go elsewhere.
We’re stuck with Steele one more year, then get a guy in here.
Some scoffed at me earlier in the year when I said that Greg Christopher had better get his shopping list together. Welp...

[xavierj]

Welp. Part of the problem with firing Steele now is that Wilcher, CJones & Odom could just opt out of their LOI’s and go elsewhere.
We’re stuck with Steele one more year, then get a guy in here.
Some scoffed at me earlier in the year when I said that Greg Christopher had better get his shopping list together. Welp...

Yep and Free and Tandy can transfer and not sit either, which would happen in a New York minute

[Final4]

Welp. Part of the problem with firing Steele now is that Wilcher, CJones & Odom could just opt out of their LOI’s and go elsewhere.
We’re stuck with Steele one more year, then get a guy in here.
Some scoffed at me earlier in the year when I said that Greg Christopher had better get his shopping list together. Welp...

And what if the following year’s recruiting class is considered even better than the Odom class……….does the same argument apply? Oh we can’t get rid of him now because the 2021 class will just go elsewhere.

[xavierj]

Welp. Part of the problem with firing Steele now is that Wilcher, CJones & Odom could just opt out of their LOI’s and go elsewhere.
We’re stuck with Steele one more year, then get a guy in here.
Some scoffed at me earlier in the year when I said that Greg Christopher had better get his shopping list together. Welp...

What mid major coach should we target that would be a "guy". I mean coaches will jump at programs that fire a guy after two or three years at a program that has never sniffed a final four and is a middle of the pack big east program, that doesn't pay all that well compared to its peers.

[Lamont Sanford]

Pat Kelsey

[xavierj]

Pat Kelsey

That's a joke, right?

[GoMuskies]

Pat Kelsey

Oh god, fire Greg Christopher.

[GoMuskies]

I mean coaches will jump at programs that fire a guy after two or three years at a program that has never sniffed a final four and is a middle of the pack big east program, that doesn't pay all that well compared to its peers.

Yes

[xavierj]

Yes

Guys you would want? Names?

[xcellentx]

And what if the following year’s recruiting class is considered even better than the Odom class……….does the same argument apply? Oh we can’t get rid of him now because the 2021 class will just go elsewhere.

There is no way he is fired after this year, and probably not after next year because of money. The buyout is likely too high.

If the 2021 class is expected to be as good as this past class and next years class, why would you want to? Especially if Steele shows improvement next year and the team looks promising for 2021.

[GoMuskies]

Guys you would want? Names?

I'm not as up on this stuff as I usually am. I'm not sure there's a big rising star out there. I really like the guy at ETSU (Forbes), partially because he's a Gregg Marshall alum. But he's done well in his own right for sure.

[Lamont Sanford]

There is no way he is fired after this year, and probably not after next year because of money. The buyout is likely too high.

If the 2021 class is expected to be as good as this past class and next years class, why would you want to? Especially if Steele shows improvement next year and the team looks promising for 2021.

Presently X does NOT have any commits for the Class of 2021.

[xavierj]

I'm not as up on this stuff as I usually am. I'm not sure there's a big rising star out there. I really like the guy at ETSU (Forbes), partially because he's a Gregg Marshall alum. But he's done well in his own right for sure.

That guy must have some baggage along the way. Don't know that, but he has won a lot, going back to his juco days, and was an assistant at some good programs, and he is 54, yet he is making $400,000 and is still at school like ETSU going on 6 years. That tells me people are staying away from him for some reason.

[SM#24]

I think Travis will get two more years unless next year is a complete abomination, which this year is not (bad but not an abomination; I'm talking like 11-20 and last in the BE at 4-16 bad). He will have a team that is primarily sophomores and freshman and maybe Scruggs. If it shows promise, even if short of the tourney, he should get one more year after next.
There is so much that went wrong with the past two years. I think the blame goes to both the players and the coaching. Every time I think it's more one than the other, my thoughts are quickly reversed.
As soon as Mack left, I felt there was only one person to hire and that was Travis. Keep doing what we do, next man up. I've gone to many a road game and usually stay in the team hotel and I never saw Mack or Travis without the other by their side. I felt Travis was fully ready to take over.
But I've had my doubts ever since his opening press conference. Too much little man syndrome comes out every time he speaks, too much insecurity in his comments; it always sounds like he feels he has to sell himself to us instead of acting confidently. Also, I've had many a disagreement with his game plan, strategy, personnel choices, that I still have my doubts. But that's all they are now, doubts. I'm not convinced he is not the man for the job, but also not convinced he is.
However, it is also clear the players are not doing what they are being coached to do. There are many games, where I have been in full agreement with our strategy, game plan, etc. but it wasn't executed or even carried out. Is that bad coaching or bad attitude or low BB IQ or all of the above ?
Hell, back to last year, why did it take 2/3 of the season for the team to finally play defense and give all out effort ? We even saw that at the beginning of this year. Is it bad coaching, or players not doing what they're supposed to be doing ?
Also, there are serious talent deficiencies in the current roster. Those that can play good defense, can't score. Those that can score, can't play any defense. Scruggs and Naji are the only ones that do both with any effectiveness, yet they are turnover machines and in Naji's case, tack on extremely poor decision making.
This team continues to contradict itself. For the most part, they have been giving good effort...defensively. But they're the laziest offensive team I've ever seen. They don't seem to work hard at that end. Also, they almost always let up whenever they get any sort of lead, or let up even at the start when they play a game they feel they should win. You can see that in the offense when they lazily just start chucking 3s, make lazy passes, don't work such that no one is open and no time is left on the shot clock. Of course, I've seen many games where I was pleased with our shot selection and we just didn't make any shots.
When I look back at this year, out of 32 games, we under performed in all but 4 IMO (UC, @ TCU, @ SH, Providence).
I don't think it serves us well to cut ties now. So, basically it's strap in for the next two years and we'll see. That seemed to work out OK for the Miller and Mack regimes. Quite frankly, my thoughts at this point on Travis' tenure are very similar to those after 6 years of Mack, I had doubts (years 4 and 5 of Mack were no tourney, not even NIT and a First Four loss).

[SM#24]

I'm not as up on this stuff as I usually am. I'm not sure there's a big rising star out there. I really like the guy at ETSU (Forbes), partially because he's a Gregg Marshall alum. But he's done well in his own right for sure.

That's always the first name that comes to my mind, but J's point is well taken.

[xavierj]

Presently X does NOT have any commits for the Class of 2021.

Travis first two classes are both ranked 2nd in the Big East. His 2021 class has potential to be number 1 in the Big East. In on more high level kids than ever before. He currently has mutual (warm) interest with 12 guys in the top 100, 4 in the top 50, one being at kid who is from Akron St. Vincent St. Mary’s that is currently rated number 26. He is in on and getting better talent than Xavier has ever brought in. Who will he bring in for 2021? Not sure, but they will be kids rated high with Big Time programs after them.

[Xville]

Travis first two classes are both ranked 2nd in the Big East. His 2021 class has potential to be number 1 in the Big East. In on more high level kids than ever before. He currently has mutual (warm) interest with 12 guys in the top 100, 4 in the top 50, one being at kid who is from Akron St. Vincent St. Mary’s that is currently rated number 26. He is in on and getting better talent than Xavier has ever brought in. Who will he bring in for 2021? Not sure, but they will be kids rated high with Big Time programs after them.

Agree on the first two classes...21 right now is a complete hypothetical until guys sign on the dotted line. We shall see

[bjf123]

Pat Kelsey

He’d take it in a New York minute.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xavierj]

He’d take it in a New York minute.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And then turn around and go back to Winthrop. Why would anyone want Pat. Nice guy I am sure and he is from Cincinnati, but other than that, I got nothing.

[stammina0721]

Scruggs is out, and Naji/Kyky are 0-11 from 3...and that is Steele's fault?

Fire Roy Williams. With the unlimited resources of UNC, he limped into a tie for LAST place in the ACC, and got blown out by 28 last night against Syracuse.

I think you guys need a little perspective.

It's funny you say that cause Roy Williams this year should be fired. He has completely thrown his players under the bus. Literally said in a presser that he can't win with this lack of talent. My first thought was if I was a player I wouldn't play for him cause he has given up on us and the second thought was he should be fired immediately.

[xavierj]

It's funny you say that cause Roy Williams this year should be fired. He has completely thrown his players under the bus. Literally said in a presser that he can't win with this lack of talent. My first thought was if I was a player I wouldn't play for him cause he has given up on us and the second thought was he should be fired immediately.

They will never happen. This is a guy who cheated and they didn’t blink an eye. He has five guys coming in and the third ranked class in the country. He will basically have a brand new team next year.

[Muskie in dayton]

They will never happen. This is a guy who cheated and they didn’t blink an eye. He has five guys coming in and the third ranked class in the country. He will basically have a brand new team next year.
Losing is much worse than cheating at the basketball blue blood schools.

[xcellentx]

Presently X does NOT have any commits for the Class of 2021.

Responding to the hypothetical question about using a good 2021 class as a reason not to fire Steele. Just asking the question if X has another top 15-20 type class.

[Xavier]

I will say the recruiting thing is promising. He brought in a class that had two guys on the freshman big east team. If there was one shinning spot on this team its that those two guys are going to be very good for Xavier. Good sign. His staff is a bunch of really strong recruiters. Having the more talented team wins more often than not.

[UCGRAD4X]

I will say the recruiting thing is promising. He brought in a class that had two guys on the freshman big east team. If there was one shinning spot on this team its that those two guys are going to be very good for Xavier. Good sign. His staff is a bunch of really strong recruiters. Having the more talented team wins more often than not.

It would be more encouraging if he had a record of actually being able to achieve the expectations of the talent.

[JTG]

They need to get in on Luke Brown from Blackford HS in Indiana. Class of 21. He has only mid major offers, but is starting to pick up interest elsewhere. Guy is a 6'1" shooting machine averaging 32 ppg. Has had games in the high 30s and 40s. Just what we need.
He's the kind of kid Butler might get, and he would spend the next 4 years torching us twice a year.

[xavierj]

It would be more encouraging if he had a record of actually being able to achieve the expectations of the talent.

So you are saying Xavier has more talent the most of the Big East? NBA scouts would disagree with you. I think every team in the Big East accept Xavier and Butler have guys in NBA mock drafts either this year or next. Hopefully moving forward we have some NBA guys coming into this program.

[GIMMFD]

It would be more encouraging if he had a record of actually being able to achieve the expectations of the talent.

Yeah, but I think he deserves a shot of a full roster with just his guys before we jump the gun on anything, his recruiting has been great obviously, but with some roster deficiencies has had to dip into the transfer market probably more than you'd like, and most likely going to have to do it again. I think 4 years, a roster completely of guys he's identified as people he wants for the program is fair, if he still has deficiencies and we're not up to standard, then it's reasonable to fire Steele. The recruiting is obviously going very well, two great classes, and in on some major guys in 2021, I'd like to see how it shapes out first!

[JTG]

I saw earlier today somewhere ( I can't find it now) that Naji referenced coming back next year after last night's game. Has anyone else picked up on that ?

[IM4X]

I'd like to hear some things from Steele around this like "I have to do some soul searching", "I have to find the heartbeat of this program", "I have to find a way to get this program aligned to what we're about" - I've yet to hear that kind of talk from Steele. It's always something else. That's most concerning to me.

He's going to get another 1-2 years to figure it out, but the change needs to start with him.


I agree that change needs to start with him, but I donÂ’t necessarily want to hear him say those things. It would signal he has no clue what any of the problems are. I would much prefer to hear him say something like, “I realize the team did not play up to it potential at times and I need to own that and make sure I keep getting smarter about how I’m teach in practice so I put my kids in the best position to win during games.”

I’d also like to hear him say, “Looking back, I now realize I may have been wrong when I said it was okay that my players were launching quick 3s at the end of games (including the DePaul game) when not only were those players having an off day shooting 3s and not only was no one near the basket when they shot the ball, but when it was clear that working the ball inside had been very effective.“ the problem is that Travis had no issues with some very questionable decisions players made during the games... which makes one question what he is teaching his players. I honestly think he is not a stickler for perfecting the little things during practice (like demanding crisp passes and higher percentage shots) which unfortunately lead to bigger issues in games (like lazy turnovers and players taking bad shots).

[AviatorX]

They need to get in on Luke Brown from Blackford HS in Indiana. Class of 21. He has only mid major offers, but is starting to pick up interest elsewhere. Guy is a 6'1" shooting machine averaging 32 ppg. Has had games in the high 30s and 40s. Just what we need.
He's the kind of kid Butler might get, and he would spend the next 4 years torching us twice a year.

Luke Brown isn't in the stratosphere of high major D1 ball. The HS competition he is facing is quite something. Doesn't even make the top Indiana AAU teams.

[xukeith]

They need to get in on Luke Brown from Blackford HS in Indiana. Class of 21. He has only mid major offers, but is starting to pick up interest elsewhere. Guy is a 6'1" shooting machine averaging 32 ppg. Has had games in the high 30s and 40s. Just what we need.
He's the kind of kid Butler might get, and he would spend the next 4 years torching us twice a year.

So said people about Brad Redford....

[xukeith]

Agree. Best player = Marshall.

[whopper]

bored so just googled 2017 Depaul Xavier. They played 4 times (one end of 2017 as part of 2018 season). Q averaged about 11 pos, 3 Reb and 3 assists. How would anyone ever know he would deteriorate like this. He had 2 dunks win a game at MSG on passes from Macura. Actually shocking to see..does not look like same person

[JTG]

Luke Brown isn't in the stratosphere of high major D1 ball. The HS competition he is facing is quite something. Doesn't even make the top Indiana AAU teams.

Shooting is shooting, no matter where you are. Purdue and Butler are interested. We had Crawford then Bluiett, no one since. Indiana players are generally smart and good shooters
He's at least worth a look.

[smileyy]

Yeah, something happened to Goodin's head. I feel for the kid. It must really suck to not be able to perform up to your capabilities. I wonder if some stories will come out in the off-season? Personal issues? Untreated depression? Unrevealed injury?

[xavierj]

So said people about Brad Redford....

And? Brad averages 5 points a game for his college career. He can really shoot it when he is wide open though.

[muskies1235]

Did anyone catch Broering on the radio today?

He said something happened a few weeks ago between Naji and Steele and also said Naji's old coach has been tweeting about Steele.

Has anyone seen the tweets?

[JEHARDI]

I get the points here but there are too many red flags. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize a bad coach vs a good coach in a bad situation. Steele is a bad coach.

Coaching is not about all strategy and game plan. The best coaches can put their finger on the pulse of their teams and put them in the best position for success. Steele falls grossly short here. He was never on the same page as this team. On top of that he was also abused by other conference coaches. He is out of his league here.

This also doesn't play into a coaching evaluation, but it also rubs me the wrong way when a coach lays blame on his players and takes no responsibility himself. Also rubs me the wrong way when he runs from the post game interview after shitting the bed. Is that the kind of leader we want running this program? A guy who deflects blame and runs away from post game duties after a rough loss?

That may be being petty but that is not a leader of young men in my eye

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out:
1) you are blowhard
2) you are a moron
3) you know very little about what you are talking about

[JEHARDI]

Welp. Part of the problem with firing Steele now is that Wilcher, CJones & Odom could just opt out of their LOI’s and go elsewhere.
We’re stuck with Steele one more year, then get a guy in here.
Some scoffed at me earlier in the year when I said that Greg Christopher had better get his shopping list together. Welp...
0 chance of X getting rid of Steele next year.

[drudy23]

Did anyone catch Broering on the radio today?

He said something happened a few weeks ago between Naji and Steele and also said Naji's old coach has been tweeting about Steele.

Has anyone seen the tweets?

Didn't hear this, but it's not surprising.

It's been pretty obvious all year that the relationship wasn't perfect. Seemed Naji was doing his own thing all year.

Why Steele didn't put a stop to it is the interesting part.

[JTG]

Didn't hear this, but it's not surprising.

It's been pretty obvious all year that the relationship wasn't perfect. Seemed Naji was doing his own thing all year.

Why Steele didn't put a stop to it is the interesting part.

This team and Naji is like a car with a bad engine. If you use Naji, you might get where you want to go. If you drive the car with bad engine, you might get where you want to go, but in either case it won't be pretty.

[JTG]

Didn't hear this, but it's not surprising.

It's been pretty obvious all year that the relationship wasn't perfect. Seemed Naji was doing his own thing all year.

Why Steele didn't put a stop to it is the interesting part.

This team and Naji is like a car with a bad engine. If you use Naji, you might get where you want to go. If you drive the car with bad engine, you might get where you want to go, but in either case it won't be pretty.

[IM4X]

And? Brad averages 5 points a game for his college career. He can really shoot it when he is wide open though.

And then there’s the part about being a huge liability on defense.

[IM4X]

This team and Naji is like a car with a bad engine. If you use Naji, you might get where you want to go. If you drive the car with bad engine, you might get where you want to go, but in either case it won't be pretty.

This team without Naji would have won maybe 9 games.

Yes, Naji has done some dumb things this season, but he also has done many, many spectacular things, like putting his team on his back and delivering far more victories than any other X player. Let’s not forget that. We look at him and say we are frustrated with some of the bad decisions he makes again and again. Fair enough... but how often is he surrounded by players afraid to step up and score. The guy passes the ball to Q and Q passes it right back. He passes it to Carter and Carter passes it right back. He passes it to Moore and he passes it right back (or shoots a brick). What is this guy to think but, “I guess I got to be the one to do something or we are going to lose.” That was especially the case when Scruggs went down with his injury a few games ago (and when Scriggs got into foul trouble in some earlier games)

By the way, what the hell happened that Scruggs got hurt? That is something that I would like to know more about. Sid rhe injury occur during practice? Does anyone here know? Is there something Steele purposely isn’t telling us?

[whopper]

you are correct, with Naj essentially playing point forward it took away his easy offense finishing breaks and offensive rebounds. Loss of Scruggs hurt more than thought and really no explanation. If you were to have a bad year (as we did) I guess this was the year to have it. The strangest was Q who when I looked at Depaul games in 2017 would control the ball and settle the team down, make plays drive and dish or draw fouls. We will probably never know the whole story nor should we. Good luck to all..God bless their future and thanks for a few years of enjoyment given current events

[whopper]

after one year with kid in AAU I found most coaches to be totally immature jerks (my daughter has a 70 year old retired ref who did me a favor)..surprisingly unpleasant experience
Didn't hear this, but it's not surprising.

It's been pretty obvious all year that the relationship wasn't perfect. Seemed Naji was doing his own thing all year.

Why Steele didn't put a stop to it is the interesting part.

[Masterofreality]

I think Travis will get two more years unless next year is a complete abomination, which this year is not (bad but not an abomination; I'm talking like 11-20 and last in the BE at 4-16 bad). He will have a team that is primarily sophomores and freshman and maybe Scruggs. If it shows promise, even if short of the tourney, he should get one more year after next.
There is so much that went wrong with the past two years. I think the blame goes to both the players and the coaching. Every time I think it's more one than the other, my thoughts are quickly reversed.
As soon as Mack left, I felt there was only one person to hire and that was Travis. Keep doing what we do, next man up. I've gone to many a road game and usually stay in the team hotel and I never saw Mack or Travis without the other by their side. I felt Travis was fully ready to take over.
But I've had my doubts ever since his opening press conference. Too much little man syndrome comes out every time he speaks, too much insecurity in his comments; it always sounds like he feels he has to sell himself to us instead of acting confidently. Also, I've had many a disagreement with his game plan, strategy, personnel choices, that I still have my doubts. But that's all they are now, doubts. I'm not convinced he is not the man for the job, but also not convinced he is.
However, it is also clear the players are not doing what they are being coached to do. There are many games, where I have been in full agreement with our strategy, game plan, etc. but it wasn't executed or even carried out. Is that bad coaching or bad attitude or low BB IQ or all of the above ?
Hell, back to last year, why did it take 2/3 of the season for the team to finally play defense and give all out effort ? We even saw that at the beginning of this year. Is it bad coaching, or players not doing what they're supposed to be doing ?
Also, there are serious talent deficiencies in the current roster. Those that can play good defense, can't score. Those that can score, can't play any defense. Scruggs and Naji are the only ones that do both with any effectiveness, yet they are turnover machines and in Naji's case, tack on extremely poor decision making.
This team continues to contradict itself. For the most part, they have been giving good effort...defensively. But they're the laziest offensive team I've ever seen. They don't seem to work hard at that end. Also, they almost always let up whenever they get any sort of lead, or let up even at the start when they play a game they feel they should win. You can see that in the offense when they lazily just start chucking 3s, make lazy passes, don't work such that no one is open and no time is left on the shot clock. Of course, I've seen many games where I was pleased with our shot selection and we just didn't make any shots.
When I look back at this year, out of 32 games, we under performed in all but 4 IMO (UC, @ TCU, @ SH, Providence).
I don't think it serves us well to cut ties now. So, basically it's strap in for the next two years and we'll see. That seemed to work out OK for the Miller and Mack regimes. Quite frankly, my thoughts at this point on Travis' tenure are very similar to those after 6 years of Mack, I had doubts (years 4 and 5 of Mack were no tourney, not even NIT and a First Four loss).

This is a fantastic, accurate and well crafted post. Props!!

[Masterofreality]

This team without Naji would have won maybe 9 games.

Yes, Naji has done some dumb things this season, but he also has done many, many spectacular things, like putting his team on his back and delivering far more victories than any other X player. Let’s not forget that. We look at him and say we are frustrated with some of the bad decisions he makes again and again. Fair enough... but how often is he surrounded by players afraid to step up and score. The guy passes the ball to Q and Q passes it right back. He passes it to Carter and Carter passes it right back. He passes it to Moore and he passes it right back (or shoots a brick). What is this guy to think but, “I guess I got to be the one to do something or we are going to lose.” That was especially the case when Scruggs went down with his injury a few games ago (and when Scriggs got into foul trouble in some earlier games)

By the way, what the hell happened that Scruggs got hurt? That is something that I would like to know more about. Sid rhe injury occur during practice? Does anyone here know? Is there something Steele purposely isn’t telling us?

Without 3 Naji 29 foot threes this team was 16-16. Unbelievable with this talent.

[Masterofreality]

Having the postseason cancelled is an unbelievably good break and an appropriate ending to this crapshow of a season. At least thankfully we beat Clifton Community College. It’s also an incredibly good break for Steele who gets out the back door without having to answer any more questions. (I’m also giggling because udump gets screwed).
I’m so glad we can shoot this season in the head and put it out of its misery. I’m so glad that there won’t be another game to make my eyes bleed watching this terrible offensive scheme.

I’m gonna hope and pray that during this offseason that Travis Steele does some studying up on A) Effective, quick passing/movement offense. B) Becoming a real Head Coach and not just a players friend. C) Close analysis of this roster to figure the best ways to utilize these guys talents. D) The transfer portal to bring in a higher level talent than just MAC players. The jump is just too big to this level.

If next years schemes are the same as this years schemes then I can only determine that we have a Mick Cronin Jr at the helm, and one who, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, less accomplished. Grow up in your Basketball Acumen, your acceptance of responsibility and your willingness to answer for your decisions Travis. I’m gonna be really interested to hear what you have to say at the All For One Golf Outing this year. If it’s the same blah blah pap, then I can only think that you’re just a damn salesman and not a good manager of a game and team.
You apparently can sell an AD on hiring you, you can sell a fan base by going to Dana’s and buying drinks, and you seemingly can sell recruits, but can you actually develop them and this program to potential? Next year will tell a lot.
The clock is ticking.....

[muskies1235]

A buddy just text me saying people are saying Paul's coach was complaining earlier this year too?

Has anyone actually seen either of these coaches tweets?

I keep hearing about them, but i feel like the tweets themselves would be informative as to whether it was game to game frustration or something bigger.

[Xavier]

I wouldn't avoid MAC transfers. You never know how it will work out (wasn't Hankins a DII player?) and we did see a few games of what we hoped Carter could bring. I bet he has a pretty solid year next year.

This is the first coaching change X has had in the Big East. Mack and Miller had benefits of learning while playing much worse competition. Steele just faced a top 10 schedule in his 2nd year on the job.

[Masterofreality]

I wouldn't avoid MAC transfers. You never know how it will work out (wasn't Hankins a DII player?) and we did see a few games of what we hoped Carter could bring. I bet he has a pretty solid year next year.

This is the first coaching change X has had in the Big East. Mack and Miller had benefits of learning while playing much worse competition. Steele just faced a top 10 schedule in his 2nd year on the job.

Hankins was D2 Player of the Year on a National Championship team. I would argue that’s higher caliber than most of the MAC. Carter and Moore were overwhelmed all year. Carter was a huge disappointment. Dude shot 37% from mostly 2 feet. It’s a big jump.

[xavierj]

I wouldn't avoid MAC transfers. You never know how it will work out (wasn't Hankins a DII player?) and we did see a few games of what we hoped Carter could bring. I bet he has a pretty solid year next year.

This is the first coaching change X has had in the Big East. Mack and Miller had benefits of learning while playing much worse competition. Steele just faced a top 10 schedule in his 2nd year on the job.

Yep and Chris Mack finished 17-14 and 6th in the A10 his 4th year as a coach after no longer having the benefit of having Sean Miller players. Big difference when your easiest competition in the Big East is DePaul, who has projected first round picks this year and next and facing St. Bonaventure.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Chris mack also lost dez wells.

[CSS85]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;670994]Having the postseason cancelled is an unbelievably good break and an appropriate ending to this crapshow of a season. At least thankfully we beat Clifton Community College. ItÂ’s also an incredibly good break for Steele who gets out the back door without having to answer any more questions. (IÂ’m also giggling because udump gets screwed).

If anyone needed proof that there is a God and that He loves Xavier it's these two things together as the result of one act Xavier is saved the humiliation of missing the dance 2 years in a row and Dayton's "season for all the ages" goes for naught.

I have been reflecting over the last 3 decades or so, and it is really amazing that we are now in the top rated (#1) conference. Everyone needs to keep that in mind, when looking back at our record of success, and deciding how many coaching mistakes we will tolerate early in a coach's career. You can successfully get away with a lot more mistakes in the 6th or 7th toughest conference than in #1. The Cleveland Browns fired Bill Belichick because he just wasn't good enough for their elite expectations. Jay Wright had I think 7 years as a head coach in a weak league prior to Villanova, and I think that had a lot to do with his success in the Big East.

I'm not nearly as anti Steele as many on here. Yes he needs to learn, and yes he directly cost us at a minimum the Butler game at Cintas, but people are just flat out nuts to parse out the pieces of comparisons to other coaches and seasons that contradict the current emotions.


It's been pointed out how Mack had disappointing seasons against much weaker competition, and I personally would credit his last elite 8 far more to Malcolm Bernard than to his excellent coaching. I witnessed close up and in person the Wisconsin debacle, and everyone wondered "why is he allowing Ed to do that?" I remember the big win at Providence when instead of calling the timeout Mack thought he needed, JP Macura drained a long 3. I also remember in another game that season the "in the huddle" direction from the coach was only one instruction - NO QUICK SHOTS, NO QUICK SHOTS. Whereby JP Macura shot a 3 within the first 4 seconds, and missed.

I also remember going to the A10 tourney at US bank arena each night thinking this is the last game because Miller is not the guy, only for Johnny Wolfe to save the team and Miller's career. Yes, I'm mostly serious there. Miller's first 2 seasons were not very good.

I think the good Lord has given us a gift at this point, and there is far more reason for hope than pessimism, and more justification for faith than abandonment or betrayal.

[GoMuskies]

Canceling March Madness is a gift?!? I can't even...

[xudash]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;670994]Having the postseason cancelled is an unbelievably good break and an appropriate ending to this crapshow of a season. At least thankfully we beat Clifton Community College. ItÂ’s also an incredibly good break for Steele who gets out the back door without having to answer any more questions. (IÂ’m also giggling because udump gets screwed).

If anyone needed proof that there is a God and that He loves Xavier it's these two things together as the result of one act Xavier is saved the humiliation of missing the dance 2 years in a row and Dayton's "season for all the ages" goes for naught.

I have been reflecting over the last 3 decades or so, and it is really amazing that we are now in the top rated (#1) conference. Everyone needs to keep that in mind, when looking back at our record of success, and deciding how many coaching mistakes we will tolerate early in a coach's career. You can successfully get away with a lot more mistakes in the 6th or 7th toughest conference than in #1. The Cleveland Browns fired Bill Belichick because he just wasn't good enough for their elite expectations. Jay Wright had I think 7 years as a head coach in a weak league prior to Villanova, and I think that had a lot to do with his success in the Big East.

I'm not nearly as anti Steele as many on here. Yes he needs to learn, and yes he directly cost us at a minimum the Butler game at Cintas, but people are just flat out nuts to parse out the pieces of comparisons to other coaches and seasons that contradict the current emotions.


It's been pointed out how Mack had disappointing seasons against much weaker competition, and I personally would credit his last elite 8 far more to Malcolm Bernard than to his excellent coaching. I witnessed close up and in person the Wisconsin debacle, and everyone wondered "why is he allowing Ed to do that?" I remember the big win at Providence when instead of calling the timeout Mack thought he needed, JP Macura drained a long 3. I also remember in another game that season the "in the huddle" direction from the coach was only one instruction - NO QUICK SHOTS, NO QUICK SHOTS. Whereby JP Macura shot a 3 within the first 4 seconds, and missed.

I also remember going to the A10 tourney at US bank arena each night thinking this is the last game because Miller is not the guy, only for Johnny Wolfe to save the team and Miller's career. Yes, I'm mostly serious there. Miller's first 2 seasons were not very good.

I think the good Lord has given us a gift at this point, and there is far more reason for hope than pessimism, and more justification for faith than abandonment or betrayal.

Thumbs up on this post.

[GIMMFD]

I wouldn't avoid MAC transfers. You never know how it will work out (wasn't Hankins a DII player?) and we did see a few games of what we hoped Carter could bring. I bet he has a pretty solid year next year.

This is the first coaching change X has had in the Big East. Mack and Miller had benefits of learning while playing much worse competition. Steele just faced a top 10 schedule in his 2nd year on the job.

I do think you are right into taking consideration that it is the Big East that Steele has to navigate, obviously much higher level of competition than figuring out Fordham and Duquesne. However, there are some deficiencies I hope to see him work on, I'm not anti-Steele yet, because I do want to see a roster completely constructed of his guys, and see if there's a certain way he may like to play, considering this roster had some obvious glaring holes. It's a little disheartening to see that we didn't really improve basketball IQ wise throughout the season, too many dumb decisions, poor shot selection, etc. ended up being the demise of this team. Not to mention, our FT woes were god awfully bad. Next season is going to be tough, the returning roster has talent, but is incredibly young, we're going to take some punches, but I'm really hoping that we can see growth throughout the season next season, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if that's the case.


Hankins was D2 Player of the Year on a National Championship team. I would argue that’s higher caliber than most of the MAC. Carter and Moore were overwhelmed all year. Carter was a huge disappointment. Dude shot 37% from mostly 2 feet. It’s a big jump.

Hankins also had D1 looks before getting injured in high school, so definitely think he had the pedigree to be good. I think we got very lucky with getting Hankins to campus, and our team would have been much worse last year without him. He definitely played at a high level in a tough conference, gotta give credit where credit is due there. Moore didn't really do anything of such, especially for being regarded as a good shooter from 3, he just never seemed to find his touch here at X, and that can be expected in a tougher conference. I thought Carter showed some signs of being able to compete at this level, but definitely think he was underperforming for what we thought we were going to get out of him. However, another off-season to work on his game, and a year of experience in the Big East could do wonders for him. I think he still has a chance to turn out to be solid. He had flashes throughout the season, it's fair to call him a disappointment right now, but also think he could grow from that.

[waggy]

Yeah need some perspective. The team could've been better, and there are numerous factors in the results. College ball is semi-organized chaos.

[mid major]

Hankins was D2 Player of the Year on a National Championship team. I would argue that’s higher caliber than most of the MAC. Carter and Moore were overwhelmed all year. Carter was a huge disappointment. Dude shot 37% from mostly 2 feet. It’s a big jump.

Quick, someone please convince me a scholarship wasn't wasted on Moore.

[X Factor]

Yep and Chris Mack finished 17-14 and 6th in the A10 his 4th year as a coach after no longer having the benefit of having Sean Miller players. Big difference when your easiest competition in the Big East is DePaul, who has projected first round picks this year and next and facing St. Bonaventure.

Yeah, but isn't that what we asked for? So we're just going to settle for being a middle of the pack BE team? The program's goal should be to get where Villanova is at. Getting to a Final Four is hard, but generally you have to be a top 4 seed. Can't do that finishing .500 in conference every year.

[xavierj]

Yeah, but isn't that what we asked for? So we're just going to settle for being a middle of the pack BE team? The program's goal should be to get where Villanova is at. Getting to a Final Four is hard, but generally you have to be a top 4 seed. Can't do that finishing .500 in conference every year.

Exactly. I really believe that Travis will get us there. Chris did not and he didn’t elevate the program in my opinion. He had a couple of really solid years but never got this program consistently where I think it can be. We are where we are because he didn’t really take what Sean gave him and grow it. He basically had one really good class and his teams never really had identity. I think in 9 years as a coach, Chris had a 6th place finish in his 4th year in the A10 and 3 of his 5 years in the Big East were 10-8, 9-9 and 9-9. So four of his 9 years were pretty mediocre and if it wasn’t for his team pulling a rabbit out of its ass three years ago, his time in the Big East would be kind of a disappointment. Chris benefitted in that when he took over he was in the A10 and was given a loaded roster. Travis had to take his first gig in a loaded conference with a very limited roster and no recruiting class and went 9-9 and 8-10 in the Big East. Not what we want but not realistically unexpected. He has already elevated the recruiting higher than Chris ever did. He is working on his third straight top 30 recruiting class. His first two were #2 in the Big East, and 27th and 17th in the country, and I would expect his third to be right there. The consistent winning will follow.

[Lloyd Braun]

Quick, someone please convince me a scholarship wasn't wasted on Moore.

He did not prevent anyone else from coming here. I don’t think...

The Bernard comps form the beginning of the year are funny to think about now. Ok not really funny...

[IM4X]

Bernard and Hankins were two of the great graduate transfers of all time for X. They finished their college career the way you’d hope: they found another gear to help lift their team to a higher level of play. Those two were simply awesome!

[JEHARDI]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;670994]Having the postseason cancelled is an unbelievably good break and an appropriate ending to this crapshow of a season. At least thankfully we beat Clifton Community College. ItÂ’s also an incredibly good break for Steele who gets out the back door without having to answer any more questions. (IÂ’m also giggling because udump gets screwed).

If anyone needed proof that there is a God and that He loves Xavier it's these two things together as the result of one act Xavier is saved the humiliation of missing the dance 2 years in a row and Dayton's "season for all the ages" goes for naught.

I have been reflecting over the last 3 decades or so, and it is really amazing that we are now in the top rated (#1) conference. Everyone needs to keep that in mind, when looking back at our record of success, and deciding how many coaching mistakes we will tolerate early in a coach's career. You can successfully get away with a lot more mistakes in the 6th or 7th toughest conference than in #1. The Cleveland Browns fired Bill Belichick because he just wasn't good enough for their elite expectations. Jay Wright had I think 7 years as a head coach in a weak league prior to Villanova, and I think that had a lot to do with his success in the Big East.

I'm not nearly as anti Steele as many on here. Yes he needs to learn, and yes he directly cost us at a minimum the Butler game at Cintas, but people are just flat out nuts to parse out the pieces of comparisons to other coaches and seasons that contradict the current emotions.


It's been pointed out how Mack had disappointing seasons against much weaker competition, and I personally would credit his last elite 8 far more to Malcolm Bernard than to his excellent coaching. I witnessed close up and in person the Wisconsin debacle, and everyone wondered "why is he allowing Ed to do that?" I remember the big win at Providence when instead of calling the timeout Mack thought he needed, JP Macura drained a long 3. I also remember in another game that season the "in the huddle" direction from the coach was only one instruction - NO QUICK SHOTS, NO QUICK SHOTS. Whereby JP Macura shot a 3 within the first 4 seconds, and missed.

I also remember going to the A10 tourney at US bank arena each night thinking this is the last game because Miller is not the guy, only for Johnny Wolfe to save the team and Miller's career. Yes, I'm mostly serious there. Miller's first 2 seasons were not very good.

I think the good Lord has given us a gift at this point, and there is far more reason for hope than pessimism, and more justification for faith than abandonment or betrayal.

Well said, hope the negative nellies tale note.

[JEHARDI]

Without 3 Naji 29 foot threes this team was 16-16. Unbelievable with this talent.

Reliable PG play would have made a world of difference this year, The 2 best offensive threats were required to play in a way that made them considerably less effective and in which they were ill equipped to do given their skills, Take into account the poor and inconsistent outside shooting and it is absolutely amazing what T accomplished what he did. Given the challenges and the fact that this team was still in every game; played hard every game (not always well or smart) is something that gives me hope as Travis addresses the roster deficiencies,

For a guy who likes to “Play” coach, how you can disregard the realities of the make-up of this team and dump everything on the coach, tells me your are a bitter or frustrated wannabe basketball coach.

Lastly, look at how Michigan St struggled when Winston was out and/or not playing to his ability while undergoing a very tough set of circumstances, it was not pretty and is an example of how tough it is to win against good teams when something is off:

Last point, I took a good friend to the game at Butler, he played college hoops and coached is son who played In the NBA and 4 other kids through AAU ball, all 5 of which played major D1 ball and 3 of the 5 have played in the NBA, He was shocked at our PG play and was not surprised we were having the season we were having after watching the game.
We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach. Could Travis have been better, no doubt, he would be the 1st to admit that but this team was severely flawed in too many aspects of the game.

[Xville]

Reliable PG play would have made a world of difference this year, The 2 best offensive threats were required to play in a way that made them considerably less effective and in which they were ill equipped to do given their skills, Take into account the poor and inconsistent outside shooting and it is absolutely amazing what T accomplished what he did. Given the challenges and the fact that this team was still in every game; played hard every game (not always well or smart) is something that gives me hope as Travis addresses the roster deficiencies,

For a guy who likes to “Play” coach, how you can disregard the realities of the make-up of this team and dump everything on the coach, tells me your are a bitter or frustrated wannabe basketball coach.

Lastly, look at how Michigan St struggled when Winston was out and/or not playing to his ability while undergoing a very tough set of circumstances, it was not pretty and is an example of how tough it is to win against good teams when something is off:

Last point, I took a good friend to the game at Butler, he played college hoops and coached is son who played In the NBA and 4 other kids through AAU ball, all 5 of which played major D1 ball and 3 of the 5 have played in the NBA, He was shocked at our PG play and was not surprised we were having the season we were having after watching the game.
We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach. Could Travis have been better, no doubt, he would be the 1st to admit that but this team was severely flawed in too many aspects of the game.

I can already predict the retort to this one " its steeles fault q regressed blah blah blah." No, q
just isnt a high major d1 basketball player. Yes he was the "pg on a one seed" but that had little to do with him...its not hard.to look good when you make one pass and get an assist from some of the best shooters x ever had.

Everyone knows it takes great guard play to be good in college basketball, x didnt have that this year, and it's not steeles fault. You want someone to blame, blame douchebag mack for being a medicore recruiter

[XU_Lou]

Reliable PG play would have made a world of difference this year, The 2 best offensive threats were required to play in a way that made them considerably less effective and in which they were ill equipped to do given their skills, Take into account the poor and inconsistent outside shooting and it is absolutely amazing what T accomplished what he did. Given the challenges and the fact that this team was still in every game; played hard every game (not always well or smart) is something that gives me hope as Travis addresses the roster deficiencies,

For a guy who likes to “Play” coach, how you can disregard the realities of the make-up of this team and dump everything on the coach, tells me your are a bitter or frustrated wannabe basketball coach.

Lastly, look at how Michigan St struggled when Winston was out and/or not playing to his ability while undergoing a very tough set of circumstances, it was not pretty and is an example of how tough it is to win against good teams when something is off:

Last point, I took a good friend to the game at Butler, he played college hoops and coached is son who played In the NBA and 4 other kids through AAU ball, all 5 of which played major D1 ball and 3 of the 5 have played in the NBA, He was shocked at our PG play and was not surprised we were having the season we were having after watching the game.
We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach. Could Travis have been better, no doubt, he would be the 1st to admit that but this team was severely flawed in too many aspects of the game.

C'mon, we all know MOaR is a coaching genius - this team would've been undefeated if he were the coach.

Instead of Master of Alternative Reality, maybe we should call him MOiR - Master of Irrational Reality

[xavierj]

I can already predict the retort to this one " its steeles fault q regressed blah blah blah." No, q
just isnt a high major d1 basketball player. Yes he was the "pg on a one seed" but that had little to do with him...its not hard.to look good when you make one pass and get an assist from some of the best shooters x ever had.

Everyone knows it takes great guard play to be good in college basketball, x didnt have that this year, and it's not steeles fault. You want someone to blame, blame douchebag mack for being a medicore recruiter

This is true. I was talking to a coach years ago and he said show me a point guard who is not a threat to score and I will show you a bad point guard. I mean you have to at least be a threat. As for Q regressing as it relates to Steele, who gets credit for the huge improvements of Naji and Tyrique since they got to Xavier and to a lesser extent, Tandy and Free, who were both much better late in the year than when the games started in November.

[XUGRAD80]

It’s good to see that there are some people on this board that are realists and don’t just buy into preseason hype and hope.

[Masterofreality]

Great guys.
Just go ahead and focus on personal attacks on a poster in here who has only stated facts rather than focus on the eye bleeding garbage of an offense with little ball or player movement, underachieving players, an underachieving record, blown coaching decisions and questionable player management. Very effective and so productive.
As for me, I’m done with this thread. Travis ain’t being fired. Mr. 19 wins will be around next year. Who knows who else but whatever. Basketball is mercifully over for this year- for Steele, for Xavier and for us. My biggest decision is whether to go back and watch this year’s games again? I want to watch basketball but fear raising my blood pressure over the obvious scheme deficiencies, stubbornness and lack of awareness to adjust.
What a conundrum.

I just wish this year’s Xavier Student Athletes, ones who were called stupid all year by some- have a great offseason. If they have decisions to make, that they make the correct ones- For Them. If they are graduating with their well earned Xavier degrees, that they are successful in their lives going forward and come back to campus to support X often.

[XU_Lou]

Great guys.
Just go ahead and focus on personal attacks on a poster in here who has only stated facts rather than focus on the eye bleeding garbage of an offense with little ball or player movement, underachieving players, an underachieving record, blown coaching decisions and questionable player management. Very effective and so productive.
As for me, I’m done with this thread. Travis ain’t being fired. Mr. 19 wins will be around next year. Who knows who else but whatever. Basketball is mercifully over for this year- for Steele, for Xavier and for us. My biggest decision is whether to go back and watch this year’s games again? I want to watch basketball but fear raising my blood pressure over the obvious scheme deficiencies, stubbornness and lack of awareness to adjust.
What a conundrum.

I just wish this year’s Xavier Student Athletes, ones who were called stupid all year by some- have a great offseason. If they have decisions to make, that they make the correct ones- For Them. If they are graduating with their well earned Xavier degrees, that they are successful in their lives going forward and come back to campus to support X often.

MOaR - at least twice you've called Steele a liar. You've called him "Coach NIT". Now you have the gall to whine about personal attacks on yourself. Give me a freaking break! You've got to be the most irrational poster on this board. I provided hard facts on post #986 on this thread that you never addressed. You've never addressed any of the counter points made by various other posters to your obtuse and irrational points as well. You're truly the Master of Alternative Reality.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Reliable PG play would have made a world of difference this year, The 2 best offensive threats were required to play in a way that made them considerably less effective and in which they were ill equipped to do given their skills, Take into account the poor and inconsistent outside shooting and it is absolutely amazing what T accomplished what he did. Given the challenges and the fact that this team was still in every game; played hard every game (not always well or smart) is something that gives me hope as Travis addresses the roster deficiencies,

For a guy who likes to “Play” coach, how you can disregard the realities of the make-up of this team and dump everything on the coach, tells me your are a bitter or frustrated wannabe basketball coach.

Lastly, look at how Michigan St struggled when Winston was out and/or not playing to his ability while undergoing a very tough set of circumstances, it was not pretty and is an example of how tough it is to win against good teams when something is off:

Last point, I took a good friend to the game at Butler, he played college hoops and coached is son who played In the NBA and 4 other kids through AAU ball, all 5 of which played major D1 ball and 3 of the 5 have played in the NBA, He was shocked at our PG play and was not surprised we were having the season we were having after watching the game.
We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach. Could Travis have been better, no doubt, he would be the 1st to admit that but this team was severely flawed in too many aspects of the game.

I do not disagree that your attribution of poor point guard play as a critical factor in this season's disappointment. I have no idea what happened to Q but his play deteriorated beginning last year and worsened this season. I disagree with the assertion that he never belonged in a Xavier uniform because his play in his first two years was demonstrably better. Lacking any competent replacement in the face of Q's decline, we suffered offensively. However, I don't know if this disastrous season, ultimately, boils down to this single issue. There is some evidence, discussed on this board, of a rift between Steele and the players, morale issues, and inaccurate game planning. There are also plenty of examples of Steele's inability to get his players to make adjustments that even a knucklehead could see needed to occur.

I suppose I'm one of those blowhards to which you refer because I believe that regardless of the source of the problem, it is the head coach, as leader, who has responsibility to address those problems. Whatever issues arise, regardless the source, it is the responsibility of the head coach to address them as best he can. Two years in, I still don't have confidence that Steele is a good leader.

Another point. This board exists so that people who are interested in this team, can express their thoughts and opinions. We don't all need to agree with every post expressed herein. Personally, I think MOR is a bit too negative on Steele. But I appreciate his thoughts and his willingness to express them in detail even in the face of being called a "blowhard". I don't, for a nano-second, agree with your comment "We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach". I would suppose you include yourself in that select group who are in that better position?

I enjoy the back and forth and even when I disagree with a post, there are plenty of occasions when I learn something new (or at least am exposed to a different opinion).

You are free to defend Steele. After two years of disappointing play---not just disappointing results but, far more importantly to me, disappointing play---I am less confident in Steele as a leader than I once was. I was enthusiastic two years ago when he was chosen. Today, I'm wondering if he was the right choice. In regard to your post that Steele would be "the first to admit............." he cannot do so when he flees post game interviews with folks like Byron Larkin, an individual who publicly elevated X basketball more than any other individual I have seen. That wasn't a great day for Steele in my opinion. In the words of Harry S. Truman, "the buck stops here". Truman made tough decisions and didn't run from the consequences. He was a leader. I'd like to see that type of an attitude from Steele.

Still, I am hopeful. Posters, who agree with you on this board, have pointed to a more focused defensive philosophy, recruiting successes and a willingness to fight to the end among other positive characteristics of this team. I acknowledge those points. But, the existence of positive aspects to Steel's performance should not completely inoculate him from responsibility for the negatives. While I'm less confident in Steele than I was two years ago, I have not lost all confidence. This is a guy, whatever his perceived flaws, that has given twelve years to the program starting from the bottom. That is loyalty and perseverance and I will grant him that in return.

Steele has two more years and I am quite satisfied to give him the full tenor of his contract. If you and others are correct, we should know in a short amount of time. And, personally, I hope you are because if the program doesn't improve, in two years it will need to be rebuilt.

[UCGRAD4X]

So, have they fired the useless pos yet?

[KFX]

I do not disagree that your attribution of poor point guard play as a critical factor in this season's disappointment. I have no idea what happened to Q but his play deteriorated beginning last year and worsened this season. I disagree with the assertion that he never belonged in a Xavier uniform because his play in his first two years was demonstrably better. Lacking any competent replacement in the face of Q's decline, we suffered offensively. However, I don't know if this disastrous season, ultimately, boils down to this single issue. There is some evidence, discussed on this board, of a rift between Steele and the players, morale issues, and inaccurate game planning. There are also plenty of examples of Steele's inability to get his players to make adjustments that even a knucklehead could see needed to occur.

I suppose I'm one of those blowhards to which you refer because I believe that regardless of the source of the problem, it is the head coach, as leader, who has responsibility to address those problems. Whatever issues arise, regardless the source, it is the responsibility of the head coach to address them as best he can. Two years in, I still don't have confidence that Steele is a good leader.

Another point. This board exists so that people who are interested in this team, can express their thoughts and opinions. We don't all need to agree with every post expressed herein. Personally, I think MOR is a bit too negative on Steele. But I appreciate his thoughts and his willingness to express them in detail even in the face of being called a "blowhard". I don't, for a nano-second, agree with your comment "We have too many blowhards on this board who think they know more than those that are in far better position to legitimately critique the team and coach". I would suppose you include yourself in that select group who are in that better position?

I enjoy the back and forth and even when I disagree with a post, there are plenty of occasions when I learn something new (or at least am exposed to a different opinion).

You are free to defend Steele. After two years of disappointing play---not just disappointing results but, far more importantly to me, disappointing play---I am less confident in Steele as a leader than I once was. I was enthusiastic two years ago when he was chosen. Today, I'm wondering if he was the right choice. In regard to your post that Steele would be "the first to admit............." he cannot do so when he flees post game interviews with folks like Byron Larkin, an individual who publicly elevated X basketball more than any other individual I have seen. That wasn't a great day for Steele in my opinion. In the words of Harry S. Truman, "the buck stops here". Truman made tough decisions and didn't run from the consequences. He was a leader. I'd like to see that type of an attitude from Steele.

Still, I am hopeful. Posters, who agree with you on this board, have pointed to a more focused defensive philosophy, recruiting successes and a willingness to fight to the end among other positive characteristics of this team. I acknowledge those points. But, the existence of positive aspects to Steel's performance should not completely inoculate him from responsibility for the negatives. While I'm less confident in Steele than I was two years ago, I have not lost all confidence. This is a guy, whatever his perceived flaws, that has given twelve years to the program starting from the bottom. That is loyalty and perseverance and I will grant him that in return.

Steele has two more years and I am quite satisfied to give him the full tenor of his contract. If you and others are correct, we should know in a short amount of time. And, personally, I hope you are because if the program doesn't improve, in two years it will need to be rebuilt.




I rarely post here anymore. I’ve been following the team since the early 1980s. If you express an opinion that someone disagrees with it’s likely the insults will start flying as opposed to an acknowledgement that we will all have different opinions. Sad to think some treat others so poorly when, presumably, we all have Xavier’s best interests in common. Have a good off season.

[Xville]

I rarely post here anymore. I’ve been following the team since the early 1980s. If you express an opinion that someone disagrees with it’s likely the insults will start flying as opposed to an acknowledgement that we will all have different opinions. Sad to think some treat others so poorly when, presumably, we all have Xavier’s best interests in common. Have a good off season.

In your world it's ok to personally attack the coaches but not other posters on here. Spare me your self righteousness

[Xer4ever]

[QUOTE=Xville;671111]I can already predict the retort to this one " its steeles fault q regressed blah blah blah." No, q
just isnt a high major d1 basketball player. Yes he was the "pg on a one seed" but that had little to do with him...its not hard.to look good when you make one pass and get an assist from some of the best shooters x ever had.

Everyone knows it takes great guard play to be good in college basketball, x didnt have that this year, and it's not steeles fault. You want someone to blame, blame douchebag mack for being a medicore recruiter

I’ve read all 122 pages now and I must say, I’ve read some of the best posts in the history of any fan forum! But the one above shows just how silly some posts can be. On one line Xville says, and I paraphrase, Mack recruited some of the best shooters in Xavier’s history. On the next line he says “blame douchbag Mack for medicore recruiter “(I assume he meant mediocre). But that’s ok, it’s a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion, facts be dammed.

[Olsingledigit]

Can we get rid of this thread or at least re-title it. It is disgusting to have that title.

[xudash]

Can we get rid of this thread or at least re-title it. It is disgusting to have that title.

I second this, 1,000%.

[Xer4ever]

Not now when we need as much entertainment as possible!

[Xville]

[QUOTE=Xville;671111]I can already predict the retort to this one " its steeles fault q regressed blah blah blah." No, q
just isnt a high major d1 basketball player. Yes he was the "pg on a one seed" but that had little to do with him...its not hard.to look good when you make one pass and get an assist from some of the best shooters x ever had.

Everyone knows it takes great guard play to be good in college basketball, x didnt have that this year, and it's not steeles fault. You want someone to blame, blame douchebag mack for being a medicore recruiter

I’ve read all 122 pages now and I must say, I’ve read some of the best posts in the history of any fan forum! But the one above shows just how silly some posts can be. On one line Xville says, and I paraphrase, Mack recruited some of the best shooters in Xavier’s history. On the next line he says “blame douchbag Mack for medicore recruiter “(I assume he meant mediocre). But that’s ok, it’s a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion, facts be dammed.

He had trevon, macura, and kaiser who all were great shooters, overall he was also a very mediocre recruiter . Both can be true. Sorry you have issues with rational thought.

[Xer4ever]

He had trevon, macura, and kaiser who all were great shooters, overall he was also a very mediocre recruiter . Both can be true. Sorry you have issues with rational thought.

You realize you just keep digging yourself deeper, right? All 3 of the players you mention play(ed) in the NBA or GLeague!

[drudy23]

Tre, JP and Edmond were stellar recruits. Outside of that, we had some decent guys, but without Tre and JP, not so sure they were that great.

There was some recruiting chaos with Mack leading the show, especially the 2-3 years AFTER Tre and JP got here. His last 2-3 recruiting classes were not very good. In fact, recruiting was kind of a sh*t show his last 2 years, with alot of transfer, alot of changed minds, and alot of missed opportunities, with his final class being very poor for Xavier's standards.

I always thought Mack was one of our best X and O guys that we've seen. Probably the best knowledge of the game than any coach we've had. Recruiting was average, game planning was great, in game coaching was ok.

He was probably the first to go after a higher profile recruit, but didn't land many of them. I think that's why he ultimately left.

[Xville]

He had trevon, macura, and kaiser who all were great shooters, overall he was also a very mediocre recruiter . Both can be true. Sorry you have issues with rational thought.

You realize you just keep digging yourself deeper, right? All 3 of the players you mention play(ed) in the NBA or GLeague!

No you're just an idiot

[Muskie in dayton]

No you're just an idiot

Why do you need to resort to name calling?

[IM4X]

Can we get rid of this thread or at least re-title it. It is disgusting to have that title.

I suggested to change the title in my post back on page 8.

I think it is fair to have a thread where posters can say nice things or vent their frustrations about the coach, I just thought the title was a bit harsh and offensive. If the title of the thread just said “Coach Steele” people could still say what they thought about Steele’s coaching and comments (good or bad).

[Xer4ever]

Why do you need to resort to name calling?

Hoping he’s a XAVIER wannabe and not an Alum.

[KFX]

Good luck to our seniors and I hope everyone stays healthy.

[paulxu]

I think that the person who starts a thread (OTRMuskie in this case) can go to the thread and lock it closed.
Maybe he'd want to do that, and then just start another thread called Coach Steele.
Just a thought.

[muskies1235]

The guy Rick was talking about on the radio has been revealed.

He claimed in one tweet that there was a fist fight between a player and a coach.

Sounds like things were a lot worse this year than we ever knew.

[xudash]

I think that the person who starts a thread (OTRMuskie in this case) can go to the thread and lock it closed.
Maybe he'd want to do that, and then just start another thread called Coach Steele.
Just a thought.

An even better idea.

OTR, please make it happen.

[Xville]

Hoping he’s a XAVIER wannabe and not an Alum.

You're hilarious. You have been here for all of 20 posts and now trying to be a self righteous prick because you dont understand that on one team q had shooters all around him, and yet overall mack could have been a medicore recruiter.

The guy struck out a lot, not sure why that's so hard for you to understand. Take a look at 13, 15 and his last two recruiting classes.

There was one productive senior on this team, zero sophomores, and admittedly two really good juniors. The last two rosters have had to be supplemented with graduate transfers due to Mack's recruiting prowess and next years probably will too. Steele has had to rebuild the roster because the construction was so effed up due to mack. Steele is trying to build the construction back up but it takes time.

[IM4X]

I think that the person who starts a thread (OTRMuskie in this case) can go to the thread and lock it closed.
Maybe he'd want to do that, and then just start another thread called Coach Steele.
Just a thought.


Hey, nice idea Fedex boss... see my post three above yours ^^^^^^^

;)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc

[IM4X]

The guy Rick was talking about on the radio has been revealed.

He claimed in one tweet that there was a fist fight between a player and a coach.

Sounds like things were a lot worse this year than we ever knew.

Who was the player and which coach was it?

[paulxu]

Hey, I wasn't trying to steal (no pun) your idea.
A while back, I learned with a game thread that the original poster could lock it.
So that's what I was suggesting. I didn't think anyone but Muskie or a moderator could change the title of a thread.
Don't know which changed the title, they or OTR.
Anyway...you're the boss!

[muskies1235]

Who was the player and which coach was it?

It doesnt say.

The guys name is Allen Ragland

[XU 87]

I think asst. coaches who become head coaches at the same school can initially struggle with having complete control and respect from the team when becoming head coach. I think Miller struggled with this at the start (see for example Dedrick Finn) and I think the same thing happened with Mack (see Mark Lyons). I wonder if Steele had a similar situation with Naji.

Based on how Naji played at times, I wonder how much he was really listening to Steele. It certainly appeared to me that at times this season, and last, that Naji wasn't listening to Steele all that much.

[xu82]

I think asst. coaches who become head coaches at the same school can initially struggle with having complete control and respect from the team when becoming head coach. I think Miller struggled with this at the start (see for example Dedrick Finn) and I think the same thing happened with Mack (see Mark Lyons). I wonder if Steele had a similar situation with Naji.

Based on how Naji played at times, I wonder how much he was really listening to Steele. It certainly appeared to me that at times this season, and last, that Naji wasn't listening to Steele all that much.


YES! It certainly did appear that way at times.....and it had to be frustrating for the coach, because I know I wanted to tear MY hair out at times. I can scream whatever I want in my family room, and he has to maintain his composure in the face of that behavior.

[bjf123]

I think asst. coaches who become head coaches at the same school can initially struggle with having complete control and respect from the team when becoming head coach. I think Miller struggled with this at the start (see for example Dedrick Finn) and I think the same thing happened with Mack (see Mark Lyons). I wonder if Steele had a similar situation with Naji.

Based on how Naji played at times, I wonder how much he was really listening to Steele. It certainly appeared to me that at times this season, and last, that Naji wasn't listening to Steele all that much.

Good points. That certainly could have been the case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UCGRAD4X]

I agree with closing the thread. This is all getting way too personal and vitriolic. As MOR said - he's ain't getting fired - and I think most of us realize this.

Of course, those of us who feel that way can just not open this thread. :medicated:

[Masterofreality]

It doesnt say.

The guys name is Allen Ragland

Who seems to be the Uncle of Naji Marshall, and the Coach for Atlantic Cape Community College in Atlantic City, NJ. Naji's hometown. He was hired as that Coach on 1/28/20. He was Coach/Director of Isaiah Christopher Academy which is a Prep School in New Jersey.

In reviewing his Tweets, there was nothing negative posted, only positive comments and reinforcement for his Nephew- and for Xavier too. Could have been deleted, but I think most Coaches worth their salt, especially a guy who is a Prep/JUCO Coach who wants to keep good relations with D1 people would NEVER tweet stuff like that. I'm sort of off the Broering/Snow train right now. Those guys have to come up with stuff to "report' to keep getting paid. Not calling them Liars, but there is no evidence to support anything to this effect.

So, whatevs.

[XU 87]

USA Today has X making the NCAA's (play-in game). Congrats to the coaching staff and the team!!

[GIMMFD]

I think asst. coaches who become head coaches at the same school can initially struggle with having complete control and respect from the team when becoming head coach. I think Miller struggled with this at the start (see for example Dedrick Finn) and I think the same thing happened with Mack (see Mark Lyons). I wonder if Steele had a similar situation with Naji.

Based on how Naji played at times, I wonder how much he was really listening to Steele. It certainly appeared to me that at times this season, and last, that Naji wasn't listening to Steele all that much.

And to piggy back a little bit off this point, what can Steele do in that situation? Let's say he disciplines Naji, that puts you at risk for losing the entire team, and the opposite is letting Naji be Naji, which wasn't very beneficial at times either. I have thought about this a lot too, and it's definitely a hard transition from going from an assistant to the head man. That doesn't mean Naji wasn't crucial for us, but there were definitely times it felt like he was doing a little bit too much, and taking over. Steele I'm sure was frustrated, but there's really not much he could do there either. The balance between being a disciplinarian and someone that these guys on the team want to go through Hell for is a tough thing to do, I'm sure as Steele grows into his head coaching role that too will improve.

[JTG]

USA Today has X making the NCAA's (play-in game). Congrats to the coaching staff and the team!!

Should we put (allegedly) under 2020 on the banner ?

[IM4X]

Hey, I wasn't trying to steal (no pun) your idea.
A while back, I learned with a game thread that the original poster could lock it.
So that's what I was suggesting. I didn't think anyone but Muskie or a moderator could change the title of a thread.
Don't know which changed the title, they or OTR.
Anyway...you're the boss!

Just messing with you Paul. Besides, it offered me the perfect situation to include an old tv spot I always enjoyed.

[XU 87]

And to piggy back a little bit off this point, what can Steele do in that situation? Let's say he disciplines Naji, that puts you at risk for losing the entire team, and the opposite is letting Naji be Naji, which wasn't very beneficial at times either. I have thought about this a lot too, and it's definitely a hard transition from going from an assistant to the head man. That doesn't mean Naji wasn't crucial for us, but there were definitely times it felt like he was doing a little bit too much, and taking over. Steele I'm sure was frustrated, but there's really not much he could do there either. The balance between being a disciplinarian and someone that these guys on the team want to go through Hell for is a tough thing to do, I'm sure as Steele grows into his head coaching role that too will improve.

I agree. The new coach is in a very tough situation.

I also agree with yo on Naji- he did a LOT of good things this year, but he sprinkled in his good things with a fair amount of bad things as well.

[XU_Lou]

Jerry Palm has XU as a 10 seed: https://twitter.com/GlacierHiker1/status/1239306841118650369

BTW, with regards to Naji's relationship with Steele, if you remember, there was a game last year in which Naji mysteriously sat out a game. Though it was portrayed as an injury, other speculated that it was a disciplinary issue. I've kind of wondered whether or not Naji and Q have completely bought in to Steele, or possibly didn't have 100% full respect for him - don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. Given the circumstances, seems to go with the territory for an asst coach being promoted to head coach. Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, Q has a baby girl (brought her out on Senior night), so maybe his priorities have changed - just a thought, again don't know how if in anyway that has had any impact on his game.

[xudash]

A little while back, after the Villanova game, some of us here, me included, placed a lot of focus on team culture. Some of us were struck by the precision and focus of the pre-game warm-ups by Villanova, as one example, when they visited the Cintas Center. Frankly, it wasn't about the precise and robotic nature of Wright's pre-game warm-ups. It was - and remains - about the discipline and culture Wright has instilled in the Villanova program. The warm-ups were simply one piece of evidence of an overall well run machine.

Am I suggesting that we have to be like Villanova? No. But what we have to do is optimize our organization, and in a manner that reflects well on the University.

I come at this as a businessman. It's about how an organization is structured and how it is made to function. Sports. Business. Medicine. Charitable organization. Whatever; it's about PEOPLE coming together to effectively row towards a common purpose as defined by the ownership / leadership of the organization.

Please allow me to come at it from a different angle with a hypothetical question: how well would Villanova have done this year had, say Gillespie or Cosby-Roundtree been headcases, at odds with Jay Wright over the course of the season?

Everyone. EVERYONE, has to be on the same page, especially in a sport as played as fast as basketball.

Travis has not yet had the opportunity to solidify his organization, because he is in transition with respect to his player personnel.

Goodin, as a senior, regardless of his actual skill set, wasn't there mentally at 100% all season. Basketball, school, and a child appear to have overly consumed his ability to stay focused on the basketball component of his obligations, or worse, he simply was burnt out on basketball, but at least committed to show up and finish it out. THAT, regardless of the specific reason for his poor play, was NOT about rowing in the same direction towards a common purpose: NCAAT birth.

We ended up talking all season about "Good Naji" and "Bad Naji". Think about that. Someone with his level of talent who ended up making a number of dumb decisions THAT SIMPLY MUST HAVE HAD A DIRECT IMPACT ON STEELE'S GAME PLANS. Games were literally lost and won by the guy, but the nature in which those outcomes occurred were so odd at times that it made everyone look bad, or at least the key people in the program look bad.

I watched Travis closely when the camera was on him, during episodes of stupidity with respect to oncourt execution. In no way could he have concocted what he had just witnessed, given the look on his face.

He wasn't infallible. I'm not suggesting that. He made his own mistakes along the way and he didn't adjust at times when adjustments appeared to be necessary, albeit he was limited with his roster in terms of addressing certain situations.

MY OVERALL POINT: IF SOMETHING BAD WAS GOING ON BEHIND THE CURTAIN WITH RESPECT TO ORGANIZATIONAL CHEMISTRY, THEN PERHAPS WE DID AS WELL AS WE WERE CAPABLE OF THIS SEASON. And keep in mind that, at least in my humble opinion, we probably would have beaten Butler at home and DePaul in NYC had Scruggs been healthy.

We would have ended up at 9-9 and with 20 wins and a most certain trip to the Dance, and we would have done all that through one of the toughest conferences in the land, not the freakin A10.

I know one thing, as this year wore on, tuning in to a Xavier game was like sitting down in a dentist's chair for a root canal. I was afraid of what to expect, and then the pain invariably set in over the course of the event.

Next year? Assuming:

1. The toxic issue(s) are expunged (whatever that means);
2. The return of at least Paul Scruggs;
3. Continued growth in Freemantle and KyKy;
4. Dieonte Miles contributes immediately (I believe he will be effective);
5. The stud new freshmen adapt reasonably quickly (it could happen; it did with Freemantle and KyKy (sooner had he been given more of Goodin's minutes));
6. We nab a real talent and contributor through the Portal;
7. TRAVIS TAKES FULL COMMAND IN HIS YEAR #3, INSTILLING HIS FULL OFFENSE AND CONTINUING HIS STRONG EMPHASIS ON DEFENSE, and
8. HE GETS FULL BUY-IN SO THAT THEY'RE ALL ROWING IN THE SAME AND RIGHT DIRECTION, next year could be a pleasant surprise.

We could end up with smart basketball, a substantial reduction in turnovers, and hopefully better FT shooting. We could end up with something that is a pleasure to watch, where we grab as many victories as possible as we witness the next, great foundation of Xavier basketball solidify; as we wItness ongoing improvement.

Something was wrong behind the curtain and Travis was still transitioning in key respects to the head chair. It translated its way onto the court. And we all ended up having to suffer through it.

I truly believe we'll witness positive steps toward the 2% this coming season.

[XU_Lou]

Great post Dash! Agree with almost everything you said. I've said this before, but if this year's class, and next, stay in the system, we will see the 2% come to fruition in 2023 when KyKy and Freemantle are seniors....

[GIMMFD]

Definitely agree with ya there Dash. Villanova should be a program we try to emulate, Jay Wright is a damn good coach, and he's got a great pedigree now to where Nova can be choosey with their recruiting. He goes after unselfish players, that fits his system of ball movement and buying in completely. Can Coach Steele get there? Who knows, but I do think with more years as the head coach under his belt, and a roster that only sees him as a head coach can do nothing but improve team chemistry. Ultimately, this season was frustrating on all kinds of different accounts, and was tough to sit through. I think we all are trying to figure out just exactly what the hell went wrong, on what should have been a pretty decent season. If you take a step back, it wasn't a complete train wreck, and I think a lot of the frustrations comes strictly due to roster deficiency and poor basketball IQ. I definitely understand that the head coach is responsible in trying to work out those stupid decisions, poor turnovers, etc. but it seemed like there were a lot of different variables at play, deeper than the surface level. I don't think we can completely excuse Coach Steele from that, because that's foolish, however I do think we can take everything with a grain of salt so to speak.

[X Factor]

Villanova has been a model of consistency for a while now. Jay Wright hasn't had a team shoot less than 70% in a season during his tenure. Another staple is his teams always have a low TO%.

We were 300-something in the country this year in FT% and over 250th in TO%.

[sirthought]

4. Keonti Miles contributes immediately (I believe he will be effective);



It's spelled a bit different, but let's get the name right on this board. Dieonte