Coach Steele

[Xville]

Agreed on the cutting teeth part - he's doing that on the job. Is that the right answer? All depends on how long it takes. Time's running out to figure out what he wants to lay as his framework for Trav Steele - Head Coach.

I'm pretty confident Mack knew he was going to take the Lousville job for a long time (as did the people in the ears of recruits). I'm also pretty confident that had an impact on the recruiting class. It wasn't as much a "whiff" as much is that he knew it wouldn't be his problem to fix.

That recruiting class is obviously a problem but the year before that, we have naji and paul and the year before that q and tyrique. That's it that have been contributors to the program. Really in three recruiting classes, there are 4 guys contributing. Comparatively, maybe that is the way college basketball is now with people going peo, transfers etc. However without looking, that seems like an awfully low number of impact players.

[drudy23]

Pitino was fired in mid October 2017. Mack wasn't hired until the end of March 2018. That's an eternity in recruiting. Guys changed their mind.

[AviatorX]

There was some strong interest from several high caliber recruits that year and they all fell through. All of them. Something was up and I think they knew it.

Obviously, I have no proof of this, but it was either that or a perfect storm of recruits changing their minds.

Pitino wasn't ousted until late September 2017 though, which was obviously very late into the 2018 cycle and X had already come up short on a number of their top targets.

I don't think it was ever a secret that when Louisville opened Mack was a pretty sure bet to go there, but the point with 2018 recruiting doesn't stand because no one know when Louisville would open at the time.

[AviatorX]

Pitino was fired in mid October 2017. Mack wasn't hired until the end of March 2018. That's an eternity in recruiting. Guys changed their mind.

Right - but when did guys like Cole Swider, Trevion Williams, Noah Locke, Jermaine Harris, Isiah Mucius, etc. etc. commit elsewhere?

[drudy23]

Pitino wasn't ousted until late September 2017 though, which was obviously very late into the 2018 cycle and X had already come up short on a number of their top targets.

I don't think it was ever a secret that when Louisville opened Mack was a pretty sure bet to go there, but the point with 2018 recruiting doesn't stand because no one know when Louisville would open at the time.

And there was strong innuendo that Pitino would be gone well before that. If I was a guessing man, I'm saying Louisville was in contact with Mack's people months before Pitino got canned.

It's a theory, I'm not reporting anything here.

[GoMuskies]

And there was strong innuendo that Pitino would be gone well before that. If I was a guessing man, I'm saying Louisville was in contact with Mack's people months before Pitino got canned.

It's a theory, I'm not reporting anything here.

Yeah, the Louisville "administration" that got fired the same day as Pitino? LOL, good theory.

[AviatorX]

And there was strong innuendo that Pitino would be gone well before that. If I was a guessing man, I'm saying Louisville was in contact with Mack's people months before Pitino got canned.

It's a theory, I'm not reporting anything here.

I hear you.

I just think the 2018 class was shaping up to be an abject disaster, with or without Mack. Xavier would probably still be feeling the impact either way, if we're being honest, especially in light of what walked out the door after that season. Not an excuse for Travis, just a reality.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Welp. We wanted this......for years!! And we have the bright lights.
What that means is that you can't just take the easy ways anymore. You have to go for excellence. Look, I don't know who else may have indicated that they wanted interest in this job. But I cannot remember too many schools in major conferences (which we are assuredly in now) just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant, no matter how many years they were at a school, other than Wojo, and he was with Coach K for 15 years with Final 4's on his resume. I'm certainly open to the board correcting me, but it seems that we have taken the easy way out here. Even VD brought a head coach with experience in. I didn't even see much expertise going on by the Assistants with Steele during the All Access. (Grits Teeth)

I find myself, generally, in agreement with your posts although I think you sometimes are a little strong. And, while we have litigated this thread topic pretty thoroughly, I think some further clarification is necessary. I think your use of the phrase "just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant" understates the process X went through in hiring Steele. My recollection is that many posters on this board were calling for Steele as were the players and the timeline from interviewing to hiring Steele was quite extended. At least, that's my memory. I think hiring Steele was quite the reasonable choice given what most of us, on this board, knew of his background and qualifications. After 1.5 seasons, I have begun to question whether (or not) he was the right choice for all the reasons you have already outlined in your various posts. Nevertheless, I think his selection, given what was known, was obvious. Now, if he doesn't have a sense of game management, if he is not a strong leader and/or developer of talent and if his recruiting success was overstated, as posters on this board have alleged, maybe the A.D. should have known. After all, one of any supervisor's most important duties is developing your direct reports and to do that, you must have a pretty good sense of their strengths and weaknesses.

Wojo, even as recently as last year, was under a great deal of criticism on the Marquette hoops board. His strategy to make Markus Howard the centerpiece of the team cost him the brothers Hauser and even last night, on Fox Sports, Donny Marshall and the studio analysts questioned whether Marquette's reliance on Howard was the right strategy in March. My point is that any coaching sellection is a bit of a crapshoot and coaching pedigree guarantees nothing. Other Krzyewski assistants (Amaker, Quin Snyder) have bombed but others have succeeded. Based on what I know today, I think Steele was the right choice. But, time may prove me wrong.

One thing that I keep hearing on this board that I don't buy for a minute is that the cupboard was bare for Steele because of Mack. While Mack was head coach and had ultimate responsibility for the quality of Xavier recruits (and whether they stuck around), we keep giving Steele a pass. That, to me, is nonsense----he was the head recruiter for Mack.

Finally, if we think the assistant coaches under Steele are the wrong guys and lack experience, that's on Steele as well.

I'm with the earlier poster in emphasizing the importance of next year's team to Steele's future. I don't expect a great record but I want to see enthusiasm, coachability and teamwork. And, I want to see Steele show me he can coach. Whether because of his players or his own experience, I haven't yet seen that skill.

One more final thought. I would LOVE to know how Byron and Joe assess this team and this coach. They know the game. They have been around the program for a long time and have seen lots of players and coaches. I would pay a lot of money to know what they really think of our team and coach's performance this year.

[xudash]

I hear you.

I just think the 2018 class was shaping up to be an abject disaster, with or without Mack. Xavier would probably still be feeling the impact either way, if we're being honest, especially in light of what walked out the door after that season. Not an excuse for Travis, just a reality.

Exactly. Yet it has to be accounted for in the present mix of what is going on, or failing to go on, with this version of Xavier basketball.

If ever an entire season could pivot on one game, tonight's game might just be that game: get even with a team that blew us out at their place, who has multiple shooters, including one national stud. Take this game and keep searching for a way to steal a road win somewhere at some point.

One can still hope.

[drudy23]

One more final thought. I would LOVE to know how Byron and Joe assess this team and this coach. They know the game. They have been around the program for a long time and have seen lots of players and coaches. I would pay a lot of money to know what they really think of our team and coach's performance this year.

Agreed.

You can usually "feel" Byron's opinion through his call of the games. While it hasn't been overtly negative, you can sense hesitation in his analysis. That's a tough spot to be in, but I think he finds ways to convey some things without saying them overtly. He doesn't seem satisfied, but I know I could be completely off here.

It's harder to tell with Joe.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the booth when they cut to commercial.

[xudash]

I find myself, generally, in agreement with your posts although I think you sometimes are a little strong. And, while we have litigated this thread topic pretty thoroughly, I think some further clarification is necessary. I think your use of the phrase "just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant" understates the process X went through in hiring Steele. My recollection is that many posters on this board were calling for Steele as were the players and the timeline from interviewing to hiring Steele was quite extended. At least, that's my memory. I think hiring Steele was quite the reasonable choice given what most of us, on this board, knew of his background and qualifications. After 1.5 seasons, I have begun to question whether (or not) he was the right choice for all the reasons you have already outlined in your various posts. Nevertheless, I think his selection, given what was known, was obvious. Now, if he doesn't have a sense of game management, if he is not a strong leader and/or developer of talent and if his recruiting success was overstated, as posters on this board have alleged, maybe the A.D. should have known. After all, one of any supervisor's most important duties is developing your direct reports and to do that, you must have a pretty good sense of their strengths and weaknesses.

Wojo, even as recently as last year, was under a great deal of criticism on the Marquette hoops board. His strategy to make Markus Howard the centerpiece of the team cost him the brothers Hauser and even last night, on Fox Sports, Donny Marshall and the studio analysts questioned whether Marquette's reliance on Howard was the right strategy in March. My point is that any coaching sellection is a bit of a crapshoot and coaching pedigree guarantees nothing. Other Krzyewski assistants (Amaker, Quin Snyder) have bombed but others have succeeded. Based on what I know today, I think Steele was the right choice. But, time may prove me wrong.

One thing that I keep hearing on this board that I don't buy for a minute is that the cupboard was bare for Steele because of Mack. While Mack was head coach and had ultimate responsibility for the quality of Xavier recruits (and whether they stuck around), we keep giving Steele a pass. That, to me, is nonsense----he was the head recruiter for Mack.

Finally, if we think the assistant coaches under Steele are the wrong guys and lack experience, that's on Steele as well.

I'm with the earlier poster in emphasizing the importance of next year's team to Steele's future. I don't expect a great record but I want to see enthusiasm, coachability and teamwork. And, I want to see Steele show me he can coach. Whether because of his players or his own experience, I haven't yet seen that skill.

One more final thought. I would LOVE to know how Byron and Joe assess this team and this coach. They know the game. They have been around the program for a long time and have seen lots of players and coaches. I would pay a lot of money to know what they really think of our team and coach's performance this year.

Fair post, but I'll make a counterpoint to the bolded statement: By virtue of being the head recruiter for Mack, Steele's success was dependent upon the perception of Mack in the recruiting marketplace. UL's wild, unethical behavior had been swirling for years. Competing coaches had the luxury of telling recruits that Mack was going to head down I-71. An assistant head recruiter who is recruiting for a coach that is rumored to have 1.5 feet out the door will not be as successful as they want given that constraint.

[AviatorX]

I see both sides of the "cupboard was bare" argument, honestly. No doubt we can lay some of the blame at Steele's feet since he was on the staff (not sure about "head recruiter" as that varied from recruit to recruit under Mack's staff). However, I don't think anyone can really question whether Steele is good at recruiting - he's very clearly an awesome recruiter.

It really just seems like the 2018 recruiting class was a "shit happens" situation. Xavier lost a lot of 50/50 balls so to speak, which happens in recruiting, but usually not in such quick succession. Fans often overstate how much immediate on floor success correlates to recruiting, but that does add another wrinkle considering how visibly successful X had been the few years prior.

[UCGRAD4X]

I find myself, generally, in agreement with your posts although I think you sometimes are a little strong. And, while we have litigated this thread topic pretty thoroughly, I think some further clarification is necessary. I think your use of the phrase "just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant" understates the process X went through in hiring Steele. My recollection is that many posters on this board were calling for Steele as were the players and the timeline from interviewing to hiring Steele was quite extended. At least, that's my memory. I think hiring Steele was quite the reasonable choice given what most of us, on this board, knew of his background and qualifications. After 1.5 seasons, I have begun to question whether (or not) he was the right choice for all the reasons you have already outlined in your various posts. Nevertheless, I think his selection, given what was known, was obvious. Now, if he doesn't have a sense of game management, if he is not a strong leader and/or developer of talent and if his recruiting success was overstated, as posters on this board have alleged, maybe the A.D. should have known. After all, one of any supervisor's most important duties is developing your direct reports and to do that, you must have a pretty good sense of their strengths and weaknesses.

Wojo, even as recently as last year, was under a great deal of criticism on the Marquette hoops board. His strategy to make Markus Howard the centerpiece of the team cost him the brothers Hauser and even last night, on Fox Sports, Donny Marshall and the studio analysts questioned whether Marquette's reliance on Howard was the right strategy in March. My point is that any coaching sellection is a bit of a crapshoot and coaching pedigree guarantees nothing. Other Krzyewski assistants (Amaker, Quin Snyder) have bombed but others have succeeded. Based on what I know today, I think Steele was the right choice. But, time may prove me wrong.

One thing that I keep hearing on this board that I don't buy for a minute is that the cupboard was bare for Steele because of Mack. While Mack was head coach and had ultimate responsibility for the quality of Xavier recruits (and whether they stuck around), we keep giving Steele a pass. That, to me, is nonsense----he was the head recruiter for Mack.

Finally, if we think the assistant coaches under Steele are the wrong guys and lack experience, that's on Steele as well.

I'm with the earlier poster in emphasizing the importance of next year's team to Steele's future. I don't expect a great record but I want to see enthusiasm, coachability and teamwork. And, I want to see Steele show me he can coach. Whether because of his players or his own experience, I haven't yet seen that skill.

One more final thought. I would LOVE to know how Byron and Joe assess this team and this coach. They know the game. They have been around the program for a long time and have seen lots of players and coaches. I would pay a lot of money to know what they really think of our team and coach's performance this year.

Do either or both show up at Dana's after the games?

[94GRAD]

Do either or both show up at Dana's after the games?

I have never seen them here after games.

[xcellentx]

Fair post, but I'll make a counterpoint to the bolded statement: By virtue of being the head recruiter for Mack, Steele's success was dependent upon the perception of Mack in the recruiting marketplace. UL's wild, unethical behavior had been swirling for years. Competing coaches had the luxury of telling recruits that Mack was going to head down I-71. An assistant head recruiter who is recruiting for a coach that is rumored to have 1.5 feet out the door will not be as successful as they want given that constraint.

I would add too that no matter who the "head recruiter" is, the head coach is making the decisions on allocation of resources and targets to go after. I don't think you completely give Steele a pass for everything, but to give him all or most of the blame for the roster going into his first year is not warranted either.

And again, not only was the 2018 recruiting class bad, Kennedy and James were the 2 lowest recruit's rankings wise we have had in the past 15 years. So this wasn't just a mediocre class, it was especially bad. You can't blame the overall makeup of the team on Steele. We have some very talented guys, but the pieces just don't fit together right, and that is not Steele's fault.

I'm mixed on how I feel about the job Steele has done, but having the right team going in makes a huge difference. I doubt many at UConn were screaming for Ollie's head in the middle of the second year, but it is pretty obvious he wasn't the right choice.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I would add too that no matter who the "head recruiter" is, the head coach is making the decisions on allocation of resources and targets to go after. I don't think you completely give Steele a pass for everything, but to give him all or most of the blame for the roster going into his first year is not warranted either.

And again, not only was the 2018 recruiting class bad, Kennedy and James were the 2 lowest recruit's rankings wise we have had in the past 15 years. So this wasn't just a mediocre class, it was especially bad. You can't blame the overall makeup of the team on Steele. We have some very talented guys, but the pieces just don't fit together right, and that is not Steele's fault.

I'm mixed on how I feel about the job Steele has done, but having the right team going in makes a huge difference. I doubt many at UConn were screaming for Ollie's head in the middle of the second year, but it is pretty obvious he wasn't the right choice.

Worth mentioning, and I know I'm painted as the most pro-Chris guy on this board (and it may be true), but Travis very much wanted CJ Fredrick and Chris soured on him....and that obviously has contributed to our struggles. Imagine this team with a starting wing shooting 48% from three? We'd be an entirely different team than we are right now.

[xudash]

Worth mentioning, and I know I'm painted as the most pro-Chris guy on this board (and it may be true), but Travis very much wanted CJ Fredrick and Chris soured on him....and that obviously has contributed to our struggles. Imagine this team with a starting wing shooting 48% from three? We'd be an entirely different team than we are right now.

Which brings us back to the point about WHAT CAN YOU DO when you know your team is already painted as a gang that can't shoot straight. We don't have the offensive firepower to get over the hump and our opposition knows that and plays us packed in accordingly.

[xcellentx]

[/B]

Which brings us back to the point about WHAT CAN YOU DO when you know your team is already painted as a gang that can't shoot straight. We don't have the offensive firepower to get over the hump and our opposition knows that and plays us packed in accordingly.

This is also why as much as people get mad at Q for shooting open 3's, and mad at Steele for not doing more about it, that is the piece this team is missing. Q shouldn't shoot 6 in the first half when he is off, but unfortunately we need someone like Q to shoot open three's and atleast make 30 some percent of them to get the offensive gears turning.

[XUBison]

My two cents:

1. I liked everything about Steele that everyone else did when he was hired. That said, I was consistent in that he was not my preferred choice. (Please don’t take this down the rabbit hole of which candidate I would have preferred instead, as that’s not the point.) My take was that this program had become too substantial to hire a guy with no head coaching experience. At the time, many were incredulous as to what other candidate could have possibly been chosen instead, as if to say there existed no other human being on Earth who could have had success as the HC at X; a silly argument.

My hope was that the university would do its due diligence to bring in the person that was most prepared to take over a top 20 program from day one. Steele may very well turn out to be the guy, but right now we are dealing with someone who is clearly struggling to get his coaching feet under him, while simultaneously trying to manage the rigors of a top 20 program. To me, this was predictable. Everything is a first for him right now, and that has to be overwhelming.

I do think the Steele hire was the safe route for Christopher’s sake, but I believe Steele’s lack of experience made him the risky choice for the program’s sake. Time will tell.

2. As has been beaten to death, my concern with Steele is the sloppy, undisciplined way we are losing games. It is like watching a slow version of Prosser ball. During the Creighton game, he kept telling the guys, “layups and open 3s”. I understand the analytics here, but doesn’t a coach need to put his players in position for layups and open 3s through disciplined scheme and strategy ,as opposed to simply repeating the mantra out loud? I know Steele is trying to develop successful scheme and strategy, but imagine for a moment that Jay Wright or John Beilein were coaching this exact roster... I am certain the offense would look much smoother and crisper, because they would have known how to implement their systems. Except in theory, I don’t think Steele even knows what his system is yet.

3. I wish people would pump the brakes a bit on the notion that Steele is a *great* recruiter. Perhaps he is, but given X’s administrative commitment, resources, facilities, consistent success, conference affiliation, fan support, etc., our program SHOULD routinely attract top 100 recruits ,with the occasional top 50-ish guy sprinkled in there. I’ll get excited about Steele’s recruiting prowess once our recruiting takes the next step ,to routinely include top 50 guys, with the occasional 5-star sprinkled on top.

[GOX]

My two cents:

1. I liked everything about Steele that everyone else did when he was hired. That said, I was consistent in that he was not my preferred choice. (Please don’t take this down the rabbit hole of which candidate I would have preferred instead, as that’s not the point.) My take was that this program had become too substantial to hire a guy with no head coaching experience. At the time, many were incredulous as to what other candidate could have possibly been chosen instead, as if to say there existed no other human being on Earth who could have had success as the HC at X; a silly argument.

My hope was that the university would do its due diligence to bring in the person that was most prepared to take over a top 20 program from day one. Steele may very well turn out to be the guy, but right now we are dealing with someone who is clearly struggling to get his coaching feet under him, while simultaneously trying to manage the rigors of a top 20 program. To me, this was predictable. Everything is a first for him right now, and that has to be overwhelming.

I do think the Steele hire was the safe route for Christopher’s sake, but I believe Steele’s lack of experience made him the risky choice for the program’s sake. Time will tell.

2. As has been beaten to death, my concern with Steele is the sloppy, undisciplined way we are losing games. It is like watching a slow version of Prosser ball. During the Creighton game, he kept telling the guys, “layups and open 3s”. I understand the analytics here, but doesn’t a coach need to put his players in position for layups and open 3s through disciplined scheme and strategy ,as opposed to simply repeating the mantra out loud? I know Steele is trying to develop successful scheme and strategy, but imagine for a moment that Jay Wright or John Beilein were coaching this exact roster... I am certain the offense would look much smoother and crisper, because they would have known how to implement their systems. Except in theory, I don’t think Steele even knows what his system is yet.

3. I wish people would pump the brakes a bit on the notion that Steele is a *great* recruiter. Perhaps he is, but given X’s administrative commitment, resources, facilities, consistent success, conference affiliation, fan support, etc., our program SHOULD routinely attract top 100 recruits ,with the occasional top 50-ish guy sprinkled in there. I’ll get excited about Steele’s recruiting prowess once our recruiting takes the next step ,to routinely include top 50 guys, with the occasional 5-star sprinkled on top.

Just a Fantastic Post. Well thought out. Logical. Reasonable. Thanks for the contribution.

[xcellentx]

I think a decent amount about what you are saying about Steele's hiring makes sense. He may have been the safe choice, but it seems like we did do some pretty good due diligence on it.


During the Creighton game, he kept telling the guys, “layups and open 3s”. I understand the analytics here, but doesn’t a coach need to put his players in position for layups and open 3s through disciplined scheme and strategy ,as opposed to simply repeating the mantra out loud?

You did see him diagraming plays and explaining things to the guys. I also think you did see him put players in the position to make shots. We had the ball plenty of times where we wanted it and the guys missed shots or made a sloppy mistake. Were there situations that he could have done better, sure, but the team shot 26/65 in the game and watching it you can't blame that all on the coach.


I know Steele is trying to develop successful scheme and strategy, but imagine for a moment that Jay Wright or John Beilein were coaching this exact roster... I am certain the offense would look much smoother and crisper, because they would have known how to implement their systems.

I don't know how much we can take from the "if you put this roster with 2 hall of fame offensive coaches" question. I would assume that this offense would look better, but it is hard to say by how much. I don't think this year or last years team would be more than a few wins with almost any coach, but even if it was with someone like Wright it doesn't really matter.

[drudy23]

Jay Wright is obviously a tremendous coach. It's validated with national championships.

But it's also validated just by watching. It is 100% obvious he knows what he wants on offense, and the guys on the floor are the right guys to execute it. It's blatantly clear just by watching a 4 minute segment. That doesn't happen by accident.

I know that's the far extreme example, but even baby steps toward that would make this team a perennial top 25 team. A decade of that, and we're knocking down the same door Villanova did.

Just as simple as that!!

[AviatorX]

Jay Wright is obviously a tremendous coach. It's validated with national championships.

But it's also validated just by watching. It is 100% obvious he knows what he wants on offense, and the guys on the floor are the right guys to execute it. It's blatantly clear just by watching a 4 minute segment. That doesn't happen by accident.

I know that's the far extreme example, but even baby steps toward that would make this team a perennial top 25 team. A decade of that, and we're knocking down the same door Villanova did.

I think Steele wants to take those steps, but in a way he's handcuffed by the roster construction (until he has his own classes in). Just speculation on my end, but I think that's a decent chunk of Steele's stubbornness in resisting some of the bigger lineups that have ended up being Xavier's "best" this year and last. That's not how he wants to play, and he's trying to make it work how he wants to see it long term, but it's just not going to happen with this group.

Pretty sure I've now read knocks that Steele (a) was over complicating things in timeouts (as opposed to McDermott who was preaching larger game plan, etc.) and (b) not doing enough scheming to get guys in the right position. A great illustration of how insightful the all-access broadcast was to fans at home - not at all (not to say it wasn't interesting).

Recruiting is the most important part of the job, and I've read before that you really need to have things going in the first three classes or it might never come. Jay Wright is actually a very good example of this at Nova, despite the fact some seem to think he molds a team of walk ons into elite players. Steele is recruiting at the highest level Xavier ever has - the idea fans shouldn't be excited about recruiting until X is routinely landing top 50 guys with 5 stars sprinkled in is ridiculous (posted elswhere) - that's a level of recruiting that very, very few programs attain and it's not crazy to say Xavier will never get there.

[drudy23]

Recruiting is the most important part of the job, and I've read before that you really need to have things going in the first three classes or it might never come. Jay Wright is actually a very good example of this at Nova, despite the fact some seem to think he molds a team of walk ons into elite players. Steele is recruiting at the highest level Xavier ever has - the idea fans shouldn't be excited about recruiting until X is routinely landing top 50 guys with 5 stars sprinkled in is ridiculous (posted elswhere) - that's a level of recruiting that very, very few programs attain and it's not crazy to say Xavier will never get there.

Maybe so, but it's not out of the question either. It can certainly be something to shoot for.

[SM#24]

My two cents:

1. ...That said, I was consistent in that he was not my preferred choice. (Please don’t take this down the rabbit hole of which candidate I would have preferred instead, as that’s not the point.)...

2. ...he kept telling the guys, “layups and open 3s”. I understand the analytics here, but doesn’t a coach need to put his players in position for layups and open 3s through disciplined scheme and strategy...

3. I wish people would pump the brakes a bit on the notion that Steele is a *great* recruiter...

My one cent worth:
1. Not going down the rabbit hole, but let me guess, Pat Kelsey
2. The other team is giving us open 3s so no work to do there; I did like the scheme that got Tyrique layups, but alas he missed them or traveled. For the most part, I didn't have much issue with shot selection last game. We went 6-20 from 2 in the first half; that's pathetic, but I didn't think they were necessarily bad looks.
3. This year's class and next year's I believe are our two highest rated ever (or very close to it). We haven't seen 1/2 of this year's class yet, and the two we've seen I don't think anyone is dissatisfied with (and I saw enough of Bishop to see that he was a miss and will not be missed...and I'll happily admit I'm wrong when he turns out to be All A-10).

[AviatorX]

Maybe so, but it's not out of the question either. It can certainly be something to shoot for.

Shoot for? Absolutely. Expect before we can acknowledge Travis is a great recruiter? That's crazy in my book.

Realize it wasn't you that originally wrote that.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

My two cents:

1. I liked everything about Steele that everyone else did when he was hired. That said, I was consistent in that he was not my preferred choice. (Please don’t take this down the rabbit hole of which candidate I would have preferred instead, as that’s not the point.) My take was that this program had become too substantial to hire a guy with no head coaching experience. At the time, many were incredulous as to what other candidate could have possibly been chosen instead, as if to say there existed no other human being on Earth who could have had success as the HC at X; a silly argument.

My hope was that the university would do its due diligence to bring in the person that was most prepared to take over a top 20 program from day one. Steele may very well turn out to be the guy, but right now we are dealing with someone who is clearly struggling to get his coaching feet under him, while simultaneously trying to manage the rigors of a top 20 program. To me, this was predictable. Everything is a first for him right now, and that has to be overwhelming.

I do think the Steele hire was the safe route for Christopher’s sake, but I believe Steele’s lack of experience made him the risky choice for the program’s sake. Time will tell.

2. As has been beaten to death, my concern with Steele is the sloppy, undisciplined way we are losing games. It is like watching a slow version of Prosser ball. During the Creighton game, he kept telling the guys, “layups and open 3s”. I understand the analytics here, but doesn’t a coach need to put his players in position for layups and open 3s through disciplined scheme and strategy ,as opposed to simply repeating the mantra out loud? I know Steele is trying to develop successful scheme and strategy, but imagine for a moment that Jay Wright or John Beilein were coaching this exact roster... I am certain the offense would look much smoother and crisper, because they would have known how to implement their systems. Except in theory, I don’t think Steele even knows what his system is yet.

3. I wish people would pump the brakes a bit on the notion that Steele is a *great* recruiter. Perhaps he is, but given X’s administrative commitment, resources, facilities, consistent success, conference affiliation, fan support, etc., our program SHOULD routinely attract top 100 recruits ,with the occasional top 50-ish guy sprinkled in there. I’ll get excited about Steele’s recruiting prowess once our recruiting takes the next step ,to routinely include top 50 guys, with the occasional 5-star sprinkled on top.

I recall the posts that argued this program had become too substantial + too important to just turn it over to Steele. I confess, at the time, I thought this line of thinking completely missed the importance of continuity. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I am questioning my own argument. The danger here---and it doesn't result only from hiring Steele---is the potential for "lost years" which Boozehound noted in an earlier post. The truth, whether we chose Steele or someone from outside the program, is that if we give Steele the additional time for which I and others have argued AND he doesn't turn things around, we are royally f****d. At that point, the program is in the crapper and we now have to find another new coach and give that person a reasonable amount of time (say three years) to make his strategy work. When you count up the years, this program will, by then, have been in the desert for as long as five or six years. By that time, the challenge of restoring greatness is multiplied by a magnitude of two or three times. This is how programs slide into oblivion. It starts with one bad hire and compounds with each lousy year.

That's the danger that comes with picking the wrong guy, whether Steele or if we had gone outside. I thought, because we knew Steele, we were better able to predict his performance than going outside. I'm still a Steele supporter but I'm feeling much more insecure about it than I did 18 months ago.

[AviatorX]

I also personally think it's pretty weak to offer up that one's preference was for Xavier to make an outside hire but not be willing to list any potential names that would have been exciting.

[Masterofreality]

Heyyyy!!!

I sure am glad that Jason Carter has 25,000,000,000,000,000 Xavier Way Practice Points!!! Glad that he's starting and playing over Zack Freemantle and Dontarious James!! What a GAME PLAYER.

Fantastic that Steele's Grading system can predict how guys can perform in a real game!!!!

[Xville]

I'm starting to get on the bus....that was some of the worst coaching I have ever seen the last 15 minutes of the game. Absolutely horrible.

Again Steele what the hell does carter do well in games...ya know the things that actually count. He cant shoot, he can't defend, hes a terrible rebounder for his size...but he tries real hard yay!

[drudy23]

Heyyyy!!!

I sure am glad that Jason Carter has 25,000,000,000,000,000 Xavier Way Practice Points!!! Glad that he's starting and playing over Zack Freemantle and Dontarious James!! What a GAME PLAYER.

Fantastic that Steele's Grading system can predict how guys can perform in a real game!!!!

Well James did come in to throw the last inbounds pass.

You know, the one we decided to hold until the buzzer went off.

JFC

[Masterofreality]

Memo to Greg Christopher:

Start developing the short list. For the spring of 2021.

We'll be starting all over. 40 years, down the drain. Welp. It was a nice run.

[waggy]

It's a players game. It'll turn around when they decide to stop sucking.

[OTRMUSKIE]

This is not all on Travis. He is still the right coach. These players are the dumbest basketball players I have ever seen. Props to Q for playing a great game. Bottom line is it’s the 2nd year. Greatness doesn’t come right away. We are use to always being good. Maybe we finally do have the coach to lead us to the promise land. Stack, gillen, Skip, Thad, Miller , backstabber didn’t get us to the promise land. Let’s be patient and give Travis one more year. I can promise you that Louisville, Buick and Dayton will not be happy with the end results this year. We want to win a NC not a regional runner up.

[bleedXblue]

Yeah we win last night with some good 6th grade free throw shooters? We are inept in so many areas.....its scary. Clearly Steele isn't ready right now. He may never be. He's not good enough to hide all of the blemishes like a really good coach could with this group. It sucks. I don't even see NIT.....guessing maybe 6 wins in BE this year. Life goes on. I'm getting accustomed to showing up to the Cintas expecting a loss and don't even want to listen to the post game show.........broken record.

[paulxu]

I wonder if we've ever had a game before where our 3 pt percentage (47.8) was higher than our FT percentage (44.0) ?

We correct one of our biggest deficiencies...and just give the game away, absolutely hand it to them, by a crappy showing at the line in regulation.

[Muskie]

I don't see Travis going anywhere, anytime soon. I still think he gets it together and we'll look back in three years and laugh about this like I do with the Fire Sean Miller and Fire Chris Mack threads (for you younger fans, messageboards wanted to fire the All-Time Winning Coach in the history of the school).

[drudy23]

This feels different. I hope it's not, but something is off.

Swinging and missing on a coach during a transition of expecting another upswing could set it back 5 years. God please no. I don't have the patience in this city.

[xeus]

We'll be starting all over. 40 years, down the drain. Welp. It was a nice run.

Are you doing this for attention?

[xcellentx]

Heyyyy!!!

I sure am glad that Jason Carter has 25,000,000,000,000,000 Xavier Way Practice Points!!! Glad that he's starting and playing over Zack Freemantle and Dontarious James!! What a GAME PLAYER.

Fantastic that Steele's Grading system can predict how guys can perform in a real game!!!!

Freemantle started and got more minutes than Carter last night.

Maybe James could have done something, and I would like to see him play more but I don't know that it would have changed much.

[xcellentx]

Yeah we win last night with some good 6th grade free throw shooters? We are inept in so many areas.....its scary. Clearly Steele isn't ready right now. He may never be. He's not good enough to hide all of the blemishes like a really good coach could with this group. It sucks. I don't even see NIT.....guessing maybe 6 wins in BE this year. Life goes on. I'm getting accustomed to showing up to the Cintas expecting a loss and don't even want to listen to the post game show.........broken record.

Maybe Steele isn't ready, but what I saw is player mistakes more than coaching mistakes.

[drudy23]

Maybe Steele isn't ready, but what I saw is player mistakes more than coaching mistakes.

End of game personnel was dumb. That's on the coach.

[Muskie]

End of game personnel was dumb. That's on the coach.

I'll bite, what should have been different.

[GoMuskies]

I'll bite, what should have been different.

He should have found better players to put out there. :)

[Mrs. Garrett]

Even if this team shoots 60% from the line tonight (still crappy) they win. So free throw shooting is on the players.

But it is on the coach when he keeps playing a guy like Carter the minutes he is getting. He just isn't up to the task of BE basketball.

On some level it is on the coach when the team is undisciplined. They don't fear the consequences of taking a bad shot or having a bad turnover. It's like Scruggs and Marshall take turns deciding when they are just going to dribble out the shot clock and take a horrible shot.

I don't like McDermott, but man do his players run his system to a T. They rarely take a bad shot and wear you down until they get a good one. Same with Jay Wright obviously. There's other coaches at lower level schools who consistently get this out of their players. This season is lost on bad basic fundamentals. Most of that is on coaching.

[AviatorX]

I'll bite, what should have been different.

I think the crowd raising this point must want to do a deep dive on how Steele ordered options 5-8 last night.

I mean no chance you aren't going to play Naji, Scruggs and Tyrique, and Q was having a great game.

[GoMuskies]

Frankly, the only think entirely, squarely on Steele is Carter. And that's not something you want to have entirely, squarely on you as a coach.

[AviatorX]

Frankly, the only think entirely, squarely on Steele is Carter. And that's not something you want to have entirely, squarely on you as a coach.

I agree Carter should play less, but he's option #5 on a good day and it's not like Derrick Brown is rotting away on the bench to play the 4 or there's some super compelling small ball lineups.

[Final4]

Two more losses at home (Nova and Butler) and no road wins. This season is over. Shit this season was over last season. Time to move on. Q and Jones already have one foot out the door and it's time to say goodbye to Naji and Paul. Need to look to next year NOW. KyKy and Free need to start and play until they need a blow. Come out for a few minutes and then right back in. They need to play through their mistakes, not worry about being jerked, let the game come to them and not feel like they have to hunt shots. Ramsey needs to play to see what you got. If he's not up to BE standards let the kid know so he can get on with his career elsewhere.

I wonder how Steele's contract is structured relative to "no cause" termination. Was he simply happy to be given the opportunity and therefore did not fight separation language that may be favorable to Xavier. Could there be provisions that simply provide a reasonably modest severance package instead of having to buy out his remaining contract?

[GoMuskies]

I agree Carter should play less, but he's option #5 on a good day and it's not like Derrick Brown is rotting away on the bench to play the 4 or there's some super compelling small ball lineups.

I'm really talking more about the fact that Carter is Steele's recruit.

[AviatorX]

Two more losses at home (Nova and Butler) and no road wins. This season is over. Shit this season was over last season. Time to move on. Q and Jones already have one foot out the door and it's time to say goodbye to Naji and Paul. Need to look to next year NOW. KyKy and Free need to start and play until they need a blow. Come out for a few minutes and then right back in. They need to play through their mistakes, not worry about being jerked, let the game come to them and not feel like they have to hunt shots. Ramsey needs to play to see what you got. If he's not up to BE standards let the kid know so he can get on with his career elsewhere.

I wonder how Steele's contract is structured relative to "no cause" termination. Was he simply happy to be given the opportunity and therefore did not fight separation language that may be favorable to Xavier. Could there be provisions that simply provide a reasonably modest severance package instead of having to buy out his remaining contract?

Great post. If Xavier tanks for the future down the stretch, do we get first dibs at the highest incoming BE recruit? Dawson Garcia would look good on next year's team.

[drudy23]

I wonder how Steele's contract is structured relative to "no cause" termination. Was he simply happy to be given the opportunity and therefore did not fight separation language that may be favorable to Xavier.

I'm guessing there's no worthwhile agent in the world that would let that happen.

[xcellentx]

I agree Carter should play less, but he's option #5 on a good day and it's not like Derrick Brown is rotting away on the bench to play the 4 or there's some super compelling small ball lineups.

I agree. This year and last year there have been so many calls for other players to get in, and while I would like to see James get a couple mins a game (mainly because why not at this point?) who else is he going to put in?

Moore has been bad for most of the Big East season, Kyky will be good but it shows often that he is a freshman who missed time, I'd rather Miles sit for the future than waste eligibility this year, and Ramsey has been hurt all year, and Freemantle played 31 min so it's not like he is getting left on the bench.

We can't magically manifest players to put in. I do think Ramsey would have taken more of Carter's time had he been healthy and if Bishop would have been willing to tough it out maybe we see more of a small lineup, but other than that what is Steele supposed to do?

[Xville]

I'll bite, what should have been different.

How about not go with a big lineup that clogs the lane so much that q, paul, and naji have zero room to maneuver and ice the game?

[Blue Blooded-05]

I agree Carter should play less, but he's option #5 on a good day and it's not like Derrick Brown is rotting away on the bench to play the 4 or there's some super compelling small ball lineups.

I am convinced Carter has the yips. Neither one of those flagrant FTs were even close. That put back attempt late in regulation was a 3 foot uncontested bunny and he almost threw it through the backboard.

I was extremely annoyed with him last night but I just feel bad for the guy this morning. Anyone who has ever struggled with yips or panic attacks or anything similar knows that fixing it is like trying to get out of quicksand... the more you struggle the worse it gets.

Sadly, there is no quick fix and no consensus on what to do about it. Markelle Fultz has been struggling with it in the NBA for 3 years now. Playing Carter in the hope he’ll get though it seems to be making it worse. Benching him will undoubtedly make it worse and guarantee we piss away a scholarship for 2-years.

Just one of the many subplots to a lost year

[xudash]

I don't see Travis going anywhere, anytime soon. I still think he gets it together and we'll look back in three years and laugh about this like I do with the Fire Sean Miller and Fire Chris Mack threads (for you younger fans, messageboards wanted to fire the All-Time Winning Coach in the history of the school).

I'm with you on this.

If it truly is a players' game, then having a lead late in regulation, only to bring the ball up court and turn it over with dumb passes 3 STRAIGHT TIMES and, as has been pointed out so clearly and so often here, missing FT's that would have easily won the game cannot be laid at the feet of Travis Steele.

I feel sorry for these kids. I really do. They worked hard last night overall, even taking pokes in the eye and ending up on the floor too often, but the inability to value every possession, the inability to focus and execute steadily over a 40 minute contest is mind boggling.

[xucub]

Memo to Greg Christopher:

Start developing the short list. For the spring of 2021.

We'll be starting all over. 40 years, down the drain. Welp. It was a nice run.


Note to Fr. Graham:
Start developing the short list of ADs. For the spring of 2020.
You are starting all over. 40 years dow the drain. He made the easy hire, not the right hire.

[SkyWalker]

I'm not quite ready to fire Travis but...

I rate college coaches on three categories to measure success:
1) Recruiting
2) Player Development
3) Game Management

Let’s look at Jay Wright.

Recruiting: Doesn't always get 5-star freshmen but overall does pretty well. Recent history of program helps. My grade B+
Player Development: Outstanding! No need to say more. My grade A
Game Management: Very Good. My grade A

Let’s look at Travis:

Recruiting:
First year - Freshmen - Keonte Kennedy (left program) and Dontarius James (not contributing). Granted late start on recruiting but my grade D
Second year - Freshman - "Top Recruiting Class" - Freemantle (contributing), Tandy (promise), Bishop (left program), Ramsey (injured - is injury chronic? Will he ever play?, and Miles (redshirt – IMHO I don’t like this. In today's college basketball why redshirt for non- medical reasons? If Miles develops as we hope, he's out of here in three years anyway.) My grade C-
Grad Transfers - Caslin, Wellage, Haskins, Carter, Moore. Haskins high level contribution most of the time. Others - minimal contributions. My grade D.

Player Development: Please tell me which players on this or last year’s rosters have improved. Grade F

Game Management: Tons of comments in this and other threads. Grade D

Probably not exactly fair to compare Jay and Travis given Wright’s experience and there is certainly a learning curve. But I think that is part of the problem. Few power conference programs hire a coach without head coaching experience. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Patrick Ewing and Juwan Howard and they are legends at their schools and former NBA stars. At X, yes we had Miller and Mack given the reins without head coaching experience but on the A-10 level. Additionally, Miller and Mack had college experience. They knew what the players went through. Travis not exactly. How many games did he play at Butler??? Was he a legend there? How about NBA experience? I know he was the heir apparent but I not sure the Big East is set up for an inexperienced head coach to learn on the job. Even Ewing and Howard are struggling. What are your grades?

[BandDad]

So why is everyone so convinced that Paul and Naji are definitely gone for next year. I think Naji may bolt as he has some athletic tools that may make scouts drool, but Paul still has a ways to go. I think there is maybe a 25% chance we lose both, 50% we lose one and 25% that we keep both. Not sure how either of those two interact with Q/Ty, but last night both of them had words with Q during the game about defensive lapses. They may both stay to see how it looks with the other two gone to see if they can turn it around. May be wishful thinking but I wonder.

[xudash]

So why is everyone so convinced that Paul and Naji are definitely gone for next year. I think Naji may bolt as he has some athletic tools that may make scouts drool, but Paul still has a ways to go. I think there is maybe a 25% chance we lose both, 50% we lose one and 25% that we keep both. Not sure how either of those two interact with Q/Ty, but last night both of them had words with Q during the game about defensive lapses. They may both stay to see how it looks with the other two gone to see if they can turn it around. May be wishful thinking but I wonder.

Can you please expand a little on the bolded statement.

To me, this is another example of a lot of this being on the player and not the coach. Steele preaches defense all day long. Q still does not execute on what he is told? And that is Travis's fault when it comes to player development.

It sounds to me like Travis should be given time to bring in HIS players and then we can judge him on player development.

Game management? I have no doubt he has made some questionable decisions within games in the eyes of the fans. But - once again for the nth time - when you have no one who can reliably hit from behind the arc, when you have personnel who can't concentrate to a sufficient degree, such that they pile up TO's game after game, and when you don't have players who can make FT's at a reasonable level, how would MANAGE that?

[AviatorX]

I'm not quite ready to fire Travis but...

I rate college coaches on three categories to measure success:
1) Recruiting
2) Player Development
3) Game Management

Let’s look at Jay Wright.

Recruiting: Doesn't always get 5-star freshmen but overall does pretty well. Recent history of program helps. My grade B+
Player Development: Outstanding! No need to say more. My grade A
Game Management: Very Good. My grade A

Let’s look at Travis:

Recruiting:
First year - Freshmen - Keonte Kennedy (left program) and Dontarius James (not contributing). Granted late start on recruiting but my grade D
Second year - Freshman - "Top Recruiting Class" - Freemantle (contributing), Tandy (promise), Bishop (left program), Ramsey (injured - is injury chronic? Will he ever play?, and Miles (redshirt – IMHO I don’t like this. In today's college basketball why redshirt for non- medical reasons? If Miles develops as we hope, he's out of here in three years anyway.) My grade C-
Grad Transfers - Caslin, Wellage, Haskins, Carter, Moore. Haskins high level contribution most of the time. Others - minimal contributions. My grade D.

Player Development: Please tell me which players on this or last year’s rosters have improved. Grade F

Game Management: Tons of comments in this and other threads. Grade D

Probably not exactly fair to compare Jay and Travis given Wright’s experience and there is certainly a learning curve. But I think that is part of the problem. Few power conference programs hire a coach without head coaching experience. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Patrick Ewing and Juwan Howard and they are legends at their schools and former NBA stars. At X, yes we had Miller and Mack given the reins without head coaching experience but on the A-10 level. Additionally, Miller and Mack had college experience. They knew what the players went through. Travis not exactly. How many games did he play at Butler??? Was he a legend there? How about NBA experience? I know he was the heir apparent but I not sure the Big East is set up for an inexperienced head coach to learn on the job. Even Ewing and Howard are struggling. What are your grades?

First ballot HOF post right here. There's just a lot going on here, not the least of which is nailing Travis' first recruiting class as a C- 20 games in their careers when 2 guys haven't even hit the floor yet. Jesus.

Low key, the most confusing part might be a B+ for Jay Wright's recruiting. What's the standard for an A-?

I think it's a dumb comparison from the jump but can we at least do Jay's first two years at Nova (19-13 (7-9) and 15-16 (8-8)) vs. Travis' first two years? Wright's third year was yet another NIT. And that's after he had a 5 year head coaching head start at Hofstra.

And would you look at that, once he got some of the best classes in school history in, things worked out alright the next couple of years down the road...

I'm not at all saying Travis will take the same trajectory. But this is Xavier, not Kentucky. Travis isn't going to get fired if he isn't a Jay Wright level coach. People need to get a grip (and some perspective).

[throwbackmuskie]

I'm really talking more about the fact that Carter is Steele's recruit.

The problem with him being a Steele recruit, is the recruiting Mack did the last two years put him behind the 8ball. One of the biggest issues this year is depth. We have about 5 guys at most who are BE players. The 17 class had 2 transfers, Ridder and Harden. The 18 class was mid level players, no offense to James. Kennedy and Walter were both reaches. We have had to rely on transfers, and this years guys are MAC level players...

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I know he was the heir apparent but I not sure the Big East is set up for an inexperienced head coach to learn on the job. Even Ewing and Howard are struggling. What are your grades?


The guy that keeps coming to mind when I think about Travis' "potential" over his first 5 years is Wojo. First time head coach at a Big East School. Now did have HIGH level playing experience, but assuming you can succeed without that, he had spent several years as a Lieutenant at a blue blood program (Trav, similarly, had spent several years as a Lieutenant at a program on the 2nd or 3rd tier).

Wojo's first two years he was 33-32 and 12-24 in league play -- Trav should better both of those numbers. Year 3 and year 5 he made the NCAA Tourney (unlikely Trav makes it in year 3, but I guess you never know), going 0-2. Year 4 he made the NIT, and year 6 they should be able to sneak into the tourney, but certainly will be around the bubble heading down the stretch.

I don't know a single Xavier fan, or college hoops fan not living in MKE, who thinks Wojo is a good basketball coach. Not one. Trav is taking over a program with a LOT more success in the last 10-20 years, consistently, but Wojo was a great player and came from the Coach K tree (which has largely disappointed, to be honest).

If this is what the next 3-4 years looks like, and I'm not saying for sure it does, although it seems "most likely", I hope they cut bait sooner rather than later. Everyone can make mistakes, including Greg Christopher who has made one with every major hire he has ever made as an A.D. at two D-1 schools, but don't compound it with sticking with the mistake too long. I just don't think he is ever going to be the guy, truly. Just because he followed Sean and Chris, that doesn't mean he'll be Sean and Chris -- those guys are elite, and they are at top 10 jobs for a reason.

Heck when Brian Snow, who I enjoy following on Twitter and reading on another board, has to come out with a "Travis is safe" manifesto, you know the wolves are howling at the gate.

[Xville]

There is a very good chance that we may not see x in the tourney three years in a row barring a miracle happening this year or next. Last time that happened? almost 40 years ago. That's what people mean when they say 40 years and starting over.

[Masterofreality]

I'll bite, what should have been different.

I'll give you one. KyKy Tandy, a freshman who is questionable at best defensively, should not have been out there near the end of the second OT. Game was tied 74-74 with 2 minutes to go. Scruggy is set up and does his thing off a called play and Tandy was never an option on the play. Moore would have been the better choice at that point because A) He can make a 3 as well as KyKy, B) He's a much better defender whether you miss or make. So what happens? Scruggy scores and X is up 76-74. Tandy, however is taken to school by Anim like a bus and the game is tied. Marshall had just fouled out so he was unavailable. At least if you are going to have Tandy in there, go back to a freaking ZONE that was working, albeit switched to too late.

Freemantle in there at the 4 with 'Rique, Marshall, Q, and Paul at this point is a no brainer. But those Xavier Way points, tho!!!

[Muskie]

I'll give you one. KyKy Tandy, a freshman who is questionable at best defensively, should not have been out there near the end of the second OT. Game was tied 74-74 with 2 minutes to go. Scruggy is set up and does his thing off a called play and Tandy was never an option on the play. Moore would have been the better choice at that point because A) He can make a 3 as well as KyKy, B) He's a much better defender whether you miss or make. So what happens? Scruggy scores and X is up 76-74. Tandy, however is taken to school by Anim like a bus and the game is tied. Marshall had just fouled out so he was unavailable. At least if you are going to have Tandy in there, go back to a freaking ZONE that was working, albeit switched to too late.

Freemantle in there at the 4 with 'Rique, Marshall, Q, and Paul at this point is a no brainer. But those Xavier Way points, tho!!!

Was Tandy not in on the last possession? I thought he and Moore were being swapped in and out for defense to Offense after FT's?

[Masterofreality]

Game management? I have no doubt he has made some questionable decisions within games in the eyes of the fans. But - once again for the nth time - when you have no one who can reliably hit from behind the arc, when you have personnel who can't concentrate to a sufficient degree, such that they pile up TO's game after game, and when you don't have players who can make FT's at a reasonable level, how would MANAGE that?

You know I love ya Dash, but here was a huge Coaching blunder last night, that is totally on the staff and no one else. I've gone back and broken down every possession. Since Xavier had the 8 point lead at 9:07 to go after Q's 3.
Xavier is ahead 53-51 with 5 minutes to go. McEwen scores to tie the game. No problem there. Xavier then goes on to take a 58-53 lead with 1:38 to go...then McEwen GOES OFF for 8 points in the last 1:38 all vs a Man to man defense. No one could stay with him and other than Anim, Marquette had no one else on the court who could score. In fact, McEwen score SEVENTEEN straight Marquette points between 5:01 in regulation and 1:18 of Overtime. At no point in time, with no Marcus Howard on the court and only two viable Marquette scoring options, did Steele go to a zone, Box and 1 or Triangle and 2 to stop uncontested drives to the basket. Finally at 1:18, he did go zone, and guess what? Marquette didn't score against it, untill Carter couldn't rebound and Marquette got two straight offensive rebounds to extend possessions- When Xavier was back in MAN.

That is terrible coaching and game management. This game should have been over in regulation if the staff and Steele recognized what the hell was happening. But, like the pattern with this staff, they are always late with any adjustments or time outs to change the game flow.

The pattern remains unbroken.

[AviatorX]

There is a very good chance that we may not see x in the tourney three years in a row barring a miracle happening this year or next. Last time that happened? almost 40 years ago. That's what people mean when they say 40 years and starting over.

Right, but it's completely dishonest to think that if Xavier misses a few tournaments in a row, the program is back in 1980. You just have to look at the incoming recruiting class and some of the guys X is in on in 2021 to realize that is a dumb take.

IU has missed three tournaments in a row and has only made the Sweet 16 three times since 2002, yet they continue to recruit McDonald's All Americans. Xavier isn't IU obviously, but this stuff just doesn't disappear overnight. There are tons of other examples of programs going through a dip and coming out the other side.

[Lloyd Braun]

If Steele ever goes to a box and 1 or triangle and 2, I will immediately demand he be fired.

They couldn’t get a rebound in the zone, and their man defense was holding up until 2 seconds left in the shot clock when they would either make a dumb foul or a poor close out. Were there better personnel for that? Maybe. But it was not scheme.

[Masterofreality]

Was Tandy not in on the last possession? I thought he and Moore were being swapped in and out for defense to Offense after FT's?

What? That has nothing to do with my statement above. Tandy should never have been out there when defense was needed- except in a possible zone- in the last two minutes except to give a foul, which he did with about 33 secs left. We were behind by then but it never should have come to that.

[AviatorX]

If Steele ever goes to a box and 1 or triangle and 2, I will immediately demand he be fired.

They couldn’t get a rebound in the zone, and their man defense was holding up until 2 seconds left in the shot clock when they would either make a dumb foul or a poor close out. Were there better personnel for that? Maybe. But it was not scheme.

Lol, seriously. I can basically write MOR's post if Travis went to a junk defense like that.

Maybe Xavier can try opening the second half on Saturday by lining up on the wrong side of the court when they in bound to throw off Seton Hall for an easy layup.

[Masterofreality]

If Steele ever goes to a box and 1 or triangle and 2, I will immediately demand he be fired.

They couldn’t get a rebound in the zone, and their man defense was holding up until 2 seconds left in the shot clock when they would either make a dumb foul or a poor close out. Were there better personnel for that? Maybe. But it was not scheme.

Really? Well, the status quo sure worked out well with guys strolling to the basket or "poor close out" where Marquette set solid screens to make our guy late. Yup. Just let one guy go off for 17 in a row. Perfect strategy.
Can't rebound in the zone? What a crap excuse, but you can blame big guy Carter for some of that. Softy got pushed around and out.

[Muskie]

What? That has nothing to do with my statement above. Tandy should never have been out there when defense was needed- except in a possible zone- in the last two minutes except to give a foul, which he did with about 33 secs left. We were behind by then but it never should have come to that.


Sorry, I misread it as I was reading fast. I see what you were saying now.

[GoMuskies]

I haven't decided yet whether Steele should be fired for playing Tandy too much or for not playing Tandy enough.

[Xville]

Right, but it's completely dishonest to think that if Xavier misses a few tournaments in a row, the program is back in 1980. You just have to look at the incoming recruiting class and some of the guys X is in on in 2021 to realize that is a dumb take.

IU has missed three tournaments in a row and has only made the Sweet 16 three times since 2002, yet they continue to recruit McDonald's All Americans. Xavier isn't IU obviously, but this stuff just doesn't disappear overnight. There are tons of other examples of programs going through a dip and coming out the other side.

I have no idea who they are going after in 21 but what happens when they miss again this year, and it looks meh next year. Are those 21 recruits going to come? Xavier cant withstand a bad recruiting class in 21...As you stated, xavier is not a traditional blue blood like IU. I can understand dips, and even some rebuilding but geez.

[Masterofreality]

Lol, seriously. I can basically write MOR's post if Travis went to a junk defense like that.

Maybe Xavier can try opening the second half on Saturday by lining up on the wrong side of the court when they in bound to throw off Seton Hall for an easy layup.

Good response. I guess we won last night with the status quo, huh? ORRRRRRR, he could have gone to a 1-3-1 ZONE what I first listed up there, which he finally did after getting torched by McEwen for 17 in a row in 8 playing time minutes. Way to be on top of it!!!

[Masterofreality]

I haven't decided yet whether Steele should be fired for playing Tandy too much or for not playing Tandy enough.

Situational. When end of game defense is needed......NO!

[AviatorX]

Good response. I guess we won last night with the status quo, huh? ORRRRRRR, he could have gone to a 1-3-1 ZONE what I first listed up there, which he finally did after getting torched by McEwen for 17 in a row in 8 playing time minutes. Way to be on top of it!!!

I'm specifically mocking your suggestion of a box and one (or triangle and two!). You know that's ridiculous.

Steele had his best defenders on the right guys and mixed in the zone as a change up (which as you noted, led to extra possessions).

McEwan scored 9 of those points on an open three (result of a missed switch, but it was still a deep three ball late in the clock) and two very acrobatic and-1 finishes. The guy made plays.

[Masterofreality]

I haven't decided yet whether Steele should be fired for playing Tandy too much or for not playing Tandy enough.

Situational. When end of game defense is needed......NO!

[AviatorX]

I have no idea who they are going after in 21 but what happens when they miss again this year, and it looks meh next year. Are those 21 recruits going to come? Xavier cant withstand a bad recruiting class in 21...As you stated, xavier is not a traditional blue blood like IU. I can understand dips, and even some rebuilding but geez.

I'll be very surprised if 2021 isn't a good class for X. If that's the case, I'll be panicking more than anyone. That would be a much worse sign than on court performance so far, in my opinion.

Fans are way more sensitive to immediate on court success than recruits. Recruits are just as likely to value how they bond with the team/coaches, whether they like campus, where their friends are going, etc.

[Masterofreality]

I'm specifically mocking your suggestion of a box and one (or triangle and two!). You know that's ridiculous.

Steele had his best defenders on the right guys and mixed in the zone as a change up (which as you noted, led to extra possessions).

Except for KyKy Tandy on Sacar Anim, right? Except for running Man to Man right into Marquettes multiple screens that caused us to foul., etc, etc, etc. And yeah, a zone after 8 freaking playing time minutes! And the "extra posessions" sure occurred...because the damn game went into overtime. Yeah, Adjustments right on time!

I'm specifically mocking your basketball knowledge. Junk defenses are not what you usually want, BUT good coaches practice them for special situations...like when one or two guys are the only option...and you can actually WIN by employing them. But, yeah, you go ahead and mock guys like HOF Coaches like Roy Williams and Coach K that have actually used them on occasion.

Another solid post Brother.

[drudy23]

Who on this team is a great defender in the first place?

It's not like we got some lock down guys that can't come out.

I don't understand this "he can't play because he can't defend" argument. Seems everyone else does.

[Masterofreality]

Who on this team is a great defender in the first place?

It's not like we got some lock down guys that can't come out.

I don't understand this "he can't play because he can't defend" argument. Seems everyone else does.

I'd say Naji and Q are actually pretty good. Paul seems to take a possession off. Moore definitely is. Carter and KyKy are really not. Ty Pretty much is.

[xcellentx]

I'm specifically mocking your suggestion of a box and one (or triangle and two!). You know that's ridiculous.

Steele had his best defenders on the right guys and mixed in the zone as a change up (which as you noted, led to extra possessions).

McEwan scored 9 of those points on an open three (result of a missed switch, but it was still a deep three ball late in the clock) and two very acrobatic and-1 finishes. The guy made plays.

I do feel like sometimes people always feels like the problem is with our player or coach but the problem is never that the other team made an amazing play. Could we have set up a better lineup or defense, maybe. But sometimes a guy just balls out.

[xudash]

You know I love ya Dash, but here was a huge Coaching blunder last night, that is totally on the staff and no one else. I've gone back and broken down every possession. Since Xavier had the 8 point lead at 9:07 to go after Q's 3.
Xavier is ahead 53-51 with 5 minutes to go. McEwen scores to tie the game. No problem there. Xavier then goes on to take a 58-53 lead with 1:38 to go...then McEwen GOES OFF for 8 points in the last 1:38 all vs a Man to man defense. No one could stay with him and other than Anim, Marquette had no one else on the court who could score. In fact, McEwen score SEVENTEEN straight Marquette points between 5:01 in regulation and 1:18 of Overtime. At no point in time, with no Marcus Howard on the court and only two viable Marquette scoring options, did Steele go to a zone, Box and 1 or Triangle and 2 to stop uncontested drives to the basket. Finally at 1:18, he did go zone, and guess what? Marquette didn't score against it, untill Carter couldn't rebound and Marquette got two straight offensive rebounds to extend possessions- When Xavier was back in MAN.

That is terrible coaching and game management. This game should have been over in regulation if the staff and Steele recognized what the hell was happening. But, like the pattern with this staff, they are always late with any adjustments or time outs to change the game flow.

The pattern remains unbroken.

That's fair MOR.

It must be a fascinating job. I can't think of one job in corporate America that compares to it, in terms of having to make split decisions in the (fluid) moment. You would think that he has been around long enough to know what to do.

A point was made about the opposition simply making plays, some spectacular plays here and there. That one drive by McEwen where he literally threw the ball up and it somehow went in, also leading to a foul shot comes to mind.

I don't have the answers. Steele has a plan for the Final 2%. I would love to read it. I would love to know where HIS head is in all this: "is it me, is it my players, is it both". Soul searching will be forthcoming.

A double OT loss at home last night, and they're off to New Jersey to face the number 1 team in the conference. NO problem.

[XUBison]

We have all kinds of matchup problems. Sometimes I think we look more like a football team out there. We are big, but we are not long inside. We are athletic, but not particularly quick. We don’t have a floor general at PG. We are physical, but without any touch. And the shooting...

We play ina great league, so perhaps our personnel are simply outmatched. Fine, but to those of you who are having a tough time acknowledging that the coaching has sucked so far under Steele,are you of the mindset that these players make the same boneheaded mistakes time and time again because our coaches happen to have assembled the greatest collection of basketball dummies ever? I mean, none of them are capable of learning from their mistakes?

Or perhaps you believe our best, most experienced players are deliberately choosing to reject the coaching, despite that doing so appears to be producing undesirable results? And this purported insolence is happening without consequence to the players, because why exactly? I guess the inmates are running the asylum?

It’s not possible that The repeated mistakes and lack of discipline have anything to do with a failure in teaching, communication, leadership, scheme, accountability, and/or meaningful preparation & attention to detail? For Pete’s sake, Jones was on the floor for the final play last night, and he didn’t understand he needed to shoot once the pass came to him. Was that because he is dumb, or maybe he opted not to shoot because he disagreed with the strategy?

I am optimistic that Steele will learn and do well at X. But right now he is in over his head, and there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

[Masterofreality]

The fascinating thing about basketball Dash is that unlike other sports, the Coach has free reign to move guys around an open court as he pleases. There are no set “spots” like in football or baseball where guys HAVE to be placed so it is open season.
Creativity is valued as is the ability to instantly react and adjust. I’ve thought it would be interesting if a basketball coach had one of his assistants sit up higher in the stands wearing a wire to tell the HC on the sideline what the other team was running, but I think that’s illegal.
Anyway, it’s wide open what you design, and it is endlessly interesting.

[xu koop scoop]

Is it Coaches fault we make 11 FT & miss 14. Or that Jones doesn't shoot at the end when it was the only option. Choosing 80%+ Carter to shoot FTs when he has the yips was stupid, but at the time I thought the Marquette coach picked Carter & was smart. Then I realize Steele picked him based on season % not seeing it wasn't Carter's nite. The whole team had yips at FT line. Coach got caught up with the yipsters. I was at least entertained

[xu koop scoop]

We were 3-8 in BE last year with equally condemning posts. Finished 9-9. Now 2-6 BE this year & a win last nite might have been the needed elixir to another miracle 9-9. It could somehow happen as could something as bad as 4-14. I have followed them since Steve Thomas in the 60s. Staying the course.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Honestly, at this juncture, if I gave you only two potential season-long results, which would you say is more likely?

1. Finish 9-9 in the Big East
2. Finish last in the Big East

Yeah....me too.

[BandDad]

Honestly, at this juncture, if I gave you only two potential season-long results, which would you say is more likely?

1. Finish 9-9 in the Big East
2. Finish last in the Big East

Yeah....me too.

We may finish 11th.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I say let’s finish last. Let’s really suck!!! Need something to tell our grandkids. “I remember the days when X finished last in 2020, so dont
Tell me about sucking” Does sucking put hair on your chest?

[bjf123]

Did anyone hear the comments from Rick Broering last night about getting to hear both Steele and McDermott during the Creighton game? One thing he pointed out was how Travis calls a play pretty much every possession for X while McDermott’s players just play.

I was talking with a friend of mine, who was a multi year walk on for X a number of years ago, about this. He said Creighton, and most of the other teams run what he calls continuity. While it’s still a set of plays, they’re not as potentially rigid as the set plays that we appear to run. That makes us much easier to coach against. Our opponents pretty much know what we’re going to do and know how to quickly disrupt it.

We talked about if it was because Steele is a micromanaging coach, because the players can’t seem to play together in a continuity style of play, or a little of both. We agreed it’s probably some of both. Whatever it is, it’s not working.

We also talked about the poor FT shooting from last night. He told me how they practiced FT shooting when he played. It was usually after a physical part of practice to mimic game situations so you’re a little winded. He also said there was peer pressure because at some point while FT shooting, a coach would call out a player’s name and tell him that if he missed the next FT, the entire team was running sprints. Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Masterofreality]

What BJF says above is absolutely true.
Creighton runs Continuity Sets called “Buckeye” and “Storm” and “Motion”- one after the other. Players are much freeer in that kind of system with less thinking about every move they make. With Steele calling a separate play every time, the players have to think about where they are and making the “right” pass rather than playing free and easy. Then, because the other team knows what’s coming, the play breaks down and we’re left with the 1 on 1 Hero ball that we see so often. Unfortunately our players are overthinking, just like they are probably overthinking on free throws.
McDermott talks “with” his players. Steele talks “at” them. Creighton plays loose. Xavier plays tight, ostensibly to avoid turnovers. They make them anyway.

[94GRAD]

Did anyone hear the comments from Rick Broering last night about getting to hear both Steele and McDermott during the Creighton game? One thing he pointed out was how Travis calls a play pretty much every possession for X while McDermott’s players just play.

I was talking with a friend of mine, who was a multi year walk on for X a number of years ago, about this. He said Creighton, and most of the other teams run what he calls continuity. While it’s still a set of plays, they’re not as potentially rigid as the set plays that we appear to run. That makes us much easier to coach against. Our opponents pretty much know what we’re going to do and know how to quickly disrupt it.

We talked about if it was because Steele is a micromanaging coach, because the players can’t seem to play together in a continuity style of play, or a little of both. We agreed it’s probably some of both. Whatever it is, it’s not working.

We also talked about the poor FT shooting from last night. He told me how they practiced FT shooting when he played. It was usually after a physical part of practice to mimic game situations so you’re a little winded. He also said there was peer pressure because at some point while FT shooting, a coach would call out a player’s name and tell him that if he missed the next FT, the entire team was running sprints. Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Say Hi to Knop for me

[KFX]

We have all kinds of matchup problems. Sometimes I think we look more like a football team out there. We are big, but we are not long inside. We are athletic, but not particularly quick. We don’t have a floor general at PG. We are physical, but without any touch. And the shooting...

We play ina great league, so perhaps our personnel are simply outmatched. Fine, but to those of you who are having a tough time acknowledging that the coaching has sucked so far under Steele,are you of the mindset that these players make the same boneheaded mistakes time and time again because our coaches happen to have assembled the greatest collection of basketball dummies ever? I mean, none of them are capable of learning from their mistakes?

Or perhaps you believe our best, most experienced players are deliberately choosing to reject the coaching, despite that doing so appears to be producing undesirable results? And this purported insolence is happening without consequence to the players, because why exactly? I guess the inmates are running the asylum?

It’s not possible that The repeated mistakes and lack of discipline have anything to do with a failure in teaching, communication, leadership, scheme, accountability, and/or meaningful preparation & attention to detail? For Pete’s sake, Jones was on the floor for the final play last night, and he didn’t understand he needed to shoot once the pass came to him. Was that because he is dumb, or maybe he opted not to shoot because he disagreed with the strategy?

I am optimistic that Steele will learn and do well at X. But right now he is in over his head, and there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that.


Only disagree with the penultimate sentence. Very good post.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Well this seems like an easy fix then. Stop calling plays. Let’s see how they do without being coached.

[Lloyd Braun]

It was only a week ago when several posters claimed that the offense didn’t run any plays at all. Now they run too many plays. Goddam I love our fans!

[AviatorX]

It was only a week ago when several posters claimed that the offense didn’t run any plays at all. Now they run too many plays. Goddam I love our fans!

It’s truly amazing. Obviously you aren’t going to be a contender running a high percentage of designed sets as opposed to a read and react system. Everyone knows this. Travis knows this. Which is why both this season and last he has NOT micromanaged the offense in the early going to try to establish the system. He has given quotes multiple times about how if decision making doesn’t improve he’ll have to call more sets from the bench, etc. As many of our finest XH authors eloquently noted this year and last, this team cannot function at all in a free flowing offense. In fact, many on here wanted Steele to go the micro managing route earlier than he did.

[noteggs]

It was only a week ago when several posters claimed that the offense didn’t run any plays at all. Now they run too many plays. Goddam I love our fans!

Don’t forget Q sucks and should not be playing! Yes he’s played bad in earlier games, but he’s the best PG we have.

[jhelmes37]

Can you imagine if Steele just rolled the ball out?

"No set plays" works great when you have the horses.

Holy shit, that would be a shit show...

Imagine being in charge of a dysfunctional corporate division and saying, "Don't worry, just do what feels best."

We aren't good enough for that...

[Final4]

Great post. If Xavier tanks for the future down the stretch, do we get first dibs at the highest incoming BE recruit? Dawson Garcia would look good on next year's team.

What's your definition of tanking? Does it really matter if we lose every game by 5 or by 15 or 25? If my original premise holds true and we go 2 and 8 over the remaining 10 what would you have liked to accomplish during that stretch?

[AviatorX]

What's your definition of tanking? Does it really matter if we lose every game by 5 or by 15 or 25? If my original premise holds true and we go 2 and 8 over the remaining 10 what would you have liked to accomplish during that stretch?

You don't develop for the future in college athletics at the expense of putting forth your best chance at winning every single game. Not only is there no incentive for being worse than other teams, but you risk creating a toxic program atmosphere. I know people are down on Goodin and Jones, but can you imagine Steele going to them and saying "thanks for everything, guys, but we're going to start looking toward next season when you'll be ineligible." If I'm KyKy or Freemantle, I'm thinking is that what Xavier will do my last season if things aren't going well? Not to mention no one is under contract, so every single guy could enter the transfer portal after the season - you can't say with certainty what next year's roster will look like.

It's not a perfect comparison, but look at what Houston football tried this past year.

[Masterofreality]

You don't develop for the future in college athletics at the expense of putting forth your best chance at winning every single game. Not only is there no incentive for being worse than other teams, but you risk creating a toxic program atmosphere. I know people are down on Goodin and Jones, but can you imagine Steele going to them and saying "thanks for everything, guys, but we're going to start looking toward next season when you'll be ineligible." If I'm KyKy or Freemantle, I'm thinking is that what Xavier will do my last season if things aren't going well? Not to mention no one is under contract, so every single guy could enter the transfer portal after the season - you can't say with certainty what next year's roster will look like.

It's not a perfect comparison, but look at what Houston football tried this past year.

Agree totally with this.

College is different than pros where, apparently, like the 76ers you can tank for 5 years, before you finally get enough draft picks to rebuild. The guys you draft don't have any choice on where to go, but recruits do. Their season ticket holders will hang in longer because a pro team can afford to give all kinds of perks out to keep them in the fold. Trust me on that, being an Indians STH like I am- for over 15 years.
Fans of the school will hang in there. In fact, despite what happens this year, I think Xavier fans, being as loyal as they are, will still sell out Cintas for 2 more years after this no matter what (I know what I posted elsewhere about 2021, but have reflected more). But if at the end of the 2022 season, we are still in a morass, even they will start to bail. There is no question that this program and staff are on the clock now. The only debate is how long a leash will the school administration give, because the basketball program basically funds everything else athletically, and makes donors more generous.

[UCGRAD4X]

Don’t forget Q sucks and should not be playing! Yes he’s played bad in earlier games, but he’s the best PG we have.

Then we are well and truly screwed.

[drudy23]

You don't develop for the future in college athletics at the expense of putting forth your best chance at winning every single game. Not only is there no incentive for being worse than other teams, but you risk creating a toxic program atmosphere. I know people are down on Goodin and Jones, but can you imagine Steele going to them and saying "thanks for everything, guys, but we're going to start looking toward next season when you'll be ineligible." If I'm KyKy or Freemantle, I'm thinking is that what Xavier will do my last season if things aren't going well? Not to mention no one is under contract, so every single guy could enter the transfer portal after the season - you can't say with certainty what next year's roster will look like.

It's not a perfect comparison, but look at what Houston football tried this past year.

That's fine, but at the same time, if this is true, we all can't freak out if 5 players choose not to come back.

[AviatorX]

That's fine, but at the same time, if this is true, we all can't freak out if 5 players choose not to come back.

Not sure I follow this. Obviously it is a bad situation if a bunch of guys decide to up and leave out of nowhere (and warrants a freak out). I'm just saying there's no sense in creating an atmosphere where a mutiny like that might be more likely to occur.

[xcellentx]

That's fine, but at the same time, if this is true, we all can't freak out if 5 players choose not to come back.

If 5 players that would receive playing time next year decide not to come back, I think that is definitely a time to freak out.

[xuwin]

2 things that I don't understand about this team:
1. They have size across the board but don't rebound well. Big guards weak on the boards.
2. Big strong guards draw very few fouls. They drive to the middle and shoot fall away jumpers which never draw fouls and leave them in poor rebounding position and no offensive rebounds. Why not drive to the basket more and use their bodies to draw contact.

[xuwin]

I'd say Naji and Q are actually pretty good. Paul seems to take a possession off. Moore definitely is. Carter and KyKy are really not. Ty Pretty much is.

I don't think Moore has come close to living up to his reputation as a lock down defender. If he did we wouldn't have to wear out Naji using him on the other teams best player all of the time.

[scoscox]

Then we are well and truly screwed.

lol seriously. the people that still defend q are wild to me. he's not a good player. not sure how much more evidence you need. he made some shots against marquette, yes, but lost in all that was that his lineup gave up the lead without howard and lost the game. not to mention, the guy he was guarding absolutely torched him to win the game. i have no illusions about q nor should anyone

[X Factor]

Lifetime extension!

[UCGRAD4X]

Best coach EVER!

[UCGRAD4X]

Best coach EVER!

Of all time!

[XU 23]

Man, this Steele guy can really coach.

[xavierj]

They're both in the Top 25 even with those losses. Xavier is 68th in the NET right now and dropping. You must be clairvoyant to be able to know now that Butler will lose 7 and Ohio State 10. Pray tell, what Ford Motor Company stock will be on March 15.

Tell me who is in better shape between X, Butler and Ohio State?

MOR... just wanted to bring this back up...

[xavierj]

Butler will no longer be in the top 5 as they have now lost two straight and could have three if they didn't get lucky at St. John's. Ohio State and that awesome coach Holtmann is now 2-5 in the Big 10. I bet Butler ends up with 7 Big East losses and Ohio State will have at least 10 Big 10 losses.

Butler at 7, Ohio State at 8. Still in play.

[Masterofreality]

MOR... just wanted to bring this back up...

And what the hell does this accomplish? Way to be right on a wild ass guess based upon nothing that seems to be coming true? Congratulations I guess on something that has zero to do with Xavier’s performance.
Let us not forget that with all of the enthusiasm Xavier played like garbage for most of the St. John’s game with 22 turnovers, and it took a missed front end of a 1-1 By a 78% free throw shooter to even give X a chance for Naji to Free’s basket. Also remember that the Johnnies were without one of their best players in Herron. We got lucky as hell after losing a very winnable game at Butler.
Of course I’m happy with the wins, but don’t think we are out of the woods by any means. We certainly can be over the course of the next 6 days with two home wins but we had better play and coach a helluva lot better.

GO X!!

[xavierj]

And what the hell does this accomplish? Way to be right on a wild ass guess based upon nothing that seems to be coming true? Congratulations I guess on something that has zero to do with Xavier’s performance.
Let us not forget that with all of the enthusiasm Xavier played like garbage for most of the St. John’s game with 22 turnovers, and it took a missed front end of a 1-1 By a 78% free throw shooter to even give X a chance for Naji to Free’s basket. Also remember that the Johnnies were without one of their best players in Herron. We got lucky as hell after losing a very winnable game at Butler.
Of course I’m happy with the wins, but don’t think we are out of the woods by any means. We certainly can be over the course of the next 6 days with two home wins but we had better play and coach a helluva lot better.

GO X!!

You think Xavier played like garbage? Did you watch the game? Yeah they turned it over a lot but that’s what St. John’s does. They led more than they didn’t, dominated the boards and won on the road after not quitting. Give some freakin credit. The coach was handed a rough deal and he is progressing. His freshman have been proving solid after being coached. Not sure what Travis did to you but enjoy the ride. You praised Butler and they have not been world beaters. They are not set up as Xavier is, and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe go buy Butler season tickets.

[XU_Lou]

You think Xavier played like garbage? Did you watch the game? Yeah they turned it over a lot but that’s what St. John’s does. They led more than they didn’t, dominated the boards and won on the road after not quitting. Give some freakin credit. The coach was handed a rough deal and he is progressing. His freshman have been proving solid after being coached. Not sure what Travis did to you but enjoy the ride. You praised Butler and they have not been world beaters. They are not set up as Xavier is, and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe go buy Butler season tickets.

I'm going to second this sentiment...

[Masterofreality]

You think Xavier played like garbage? Did you watch the game? Yeah they turned it over a lot but that’s what St. John’s does. They led more than they didn’t, dominated the boards and won on the road after not quitting. Give some freakin credit. The coach was handed a rough deal and he is progressing. His freshman have been proving solid after being coached. Not sure what Travis did to you but enjoy the ride. You praised Butler and they have not been world beaters. They are not set up as Xavier is, and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe go buy Butler season tickets.

What kind of a “Rough Deal” was he handed?
- 4 returning veteran starters
- A highly rated freshman class that, giving credit to Steele, he recruited.
- A preseason Top 20 ranking
- 10 extra practices in anticipation of, and extra practices and 4 games in Spain to work this all in.
Every D1 College coach in America would take that “Rough Deal” in a N.Y. minute.
Uh, Xavier throwing the ball directly to the other team and being stupid with the ball has nothing to do with what St. John’s does.
Want to argue that Xavier played like garbage? Ask Steele himself. He already said it immediately after the game. Want to argue with the Coach who’s team is still making the same mistakes 26 games in..with veterans?
We got lucky. We’ll take it, but if you can’t see the warts that still exist on this team, I don’t know what to tell you.
And my two Premium Xavier Season tickets are just fine, thank you.
Where are yours?

[Masterofreality]

You think Xavier played like garbage? Did you watch the game? Yeah they turned it over a lot but that’s what St. John’s does. They led more than they didn’t, dominated the boards and won on the road after not quitting. Give some freakin credit. The coach was handed a rough deal and he is progressing. His freshman have been proving solid after being coached. Not sure what Travis did to you but enjoy the ride. You praised Butler and they have not been world beaters. They are not set up as Xavier is, and if you can’t see that, I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe go buy Butler season tickets.

What kind of a “Rough Deal” was he handed?
- 4 returning veteran starters
- A highly rated freshman class that, giving credit to Steele, he recruited.
- A preseason Top 20 ranking
- 10 extra practices in anticipation of, and extra practices and 4 games in Spain to work this all in.
Every D1 College coach in America would take that “Rough Deal” in a N.Y. minute.
Uh, Xavier throwing the ball directly to the other team and being stupid with the ball has nothing to do with what St. John’s does.
Want to argue that Xavier played like garbage? Ask Steele himself. He already said it immediately after the game. Want to argue with the Coach who’s team is still making the same mistakes 26 games in..with veterans?
We got lucky. We’ll take it, but if you can’t see the warts that still exist on this team, I don’t know what to tell you.
And my two Premium Xavier Season tickets are just fine, thank you.
Where are yours?

[xavierj]

What kind of a “Rough Deal” was he handed?
- 4 returning veteran starters
- A highly rated freshman class that, giving credit to Steele, he recruited.
- A preseason Top 20 ranking
- 10 extra practices in anticipation of, and extra practices and 4 games in Spain to work this all in.
Every D1 College coach in America would take that “Rough Deal” in a N.Y. minute.
Uh, Xavier throwing the ball directly to the other team and being stupid with the ball has nothing to do with what St. John’s does.
Want to argue that Xavier played like garbage? Ask Steele himself. He already said it immediately after the game. Want to argue with the Coach who’s team is still making the same mistakes 26 games in..with veterans?
We got lucky. We’ll take it, but if you can’t see the warts that still exist on this team, I don’t know what to tell you.
And my two Premium Xavier Season tickets are just fine, thank you.
Where are yours?

1. Travis was left with 4 players, two who were decent freshman by the numbers and no recruiting class, and a point guard who couldn’t shoot. He had to scramble. Did you not know that?
2. He lost legends Trevon and JP. Were they big losses? Not to mention he was never a head coach.
3. Did you expect miracles?

[xavierj]

1. Travis was left with 4 players, two who were decent freshman by the numbers and no recruiting class, and a point guard who couldn’t shoot. He had to scramble. Did you not know that?
2. He lost legends Trevon and JP. Were they big losses? Not to mention he was never a head coach.
3. Did you expect miracles?
In addition, I have been going to Xavier games since I was born and have had premium season tickets since Cintas opened. Not sure where you were going with that. Have been to road trips all over the country.

[xavierj]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;667593]What kind of a “Rough Deal” was he handed?
- 4 returning veteran starters
- A highly rated freshman class that, giving credit to Steele, he recruited.
- A preseason Top 20 ranking
- 10 extra practices in anticipation of, and extra practices and 4 games in Spain to work this all in.
Every D1 College coach in America would take that “Rough Deal” in a N.Y. minute.
Uh, Xavier throwing the ball directly to the other team and being stupid with the ball has nothing to do with what St. John’s does.
Want to argue that Xavier played like garbage? Ask Steele himself. He already said it immediately after the game. Want to argue with the Coach who’s team is still making the same mistakes 26 games in..with veterans?
We got lucky. We’ll take it, but if you can’t see the warts that still exist on this team, I don’t know what to tell you.
And my two Premium Xavier Season tickets are just fine, thank you.
Where are yours?[

That last part stings a bit. I was there when Gary Massa scored his 1000 point, I was there when Xavier played Alcorn State in Dayton, I was there when Xavier beat Missouri and played and should have beat Duke in Indy, when Leroy Greenidge was handing out wrist bands out of introductions at Schmidt, i was there getting autographs at the gardens from McBride and others, I was there when Byron scored 45 in the MCC tourney, when David West scored 47 against Dayton, when Xavier fans stomped the floor in Dayton, when Xavier beat Creighton on New Years, when we beat Indiana in Chicago, beat Louisville in Cincy and on. That’s off the top of my head, there were many more. Don’t question my fandom.

[XU 87]

Let us not forget that with all of the enthusiasm Xavier played like garbage for most of the St. John’s game with 22 turnovers, and it took a missed front end of a 1-1 By a 78% free throw shooter to even give X a chance for Naji to Free’s basket. Also remember that the Johnnies were without one of their best players in Herron. We got lucky as hell after losing a very winnable game at Butler.

GO X!!

That was a Quad 1 win for X. It was a good win. Enjoy it!

[Masterofreality]

Buddy you talked about me getting Butler season tickets. You started it. I wasn’t going anywhere with it.
And I sat through 3-23 and 5-21, so don’t think I know it could be worse.
This team has warts after 30 games counting Spain and they were damn lucky to beat a shorthanded St. John’s team. Forgive me for still having questions about this “System”.

[Masterofreality]

That was a Quad 1 win for X. It was a good win. Enjoy it!


I AM! It clinched us a winning season and an NIT bid at worst.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=Masterofreality;667593]What kind of a “Rough Deal” was he handed?
- 4 returning veteran starters
- A highly rated freshman class that, giving credit to Steele, he recruited.
- A preseason Top 20 ranking
- 10 extra practices in anticipation of, and extra practices and 4 games in Spain to work this all in.
Every D1 College coach in America would take that “Rough Deal” in a N.Y. minute.
Uh, Xavier throwing the ball directly to the other team and being stupid with the ball has nothing to do with what St. John’s does.
Want to argue that Xavier played like garbage? Ask Steele himself. He already said it immediately after the game. Want to argue with the Coach who’s team is still making the same mistakes 26 games in..with veterans?
We got lucky. We’ll take it, but if you can’t see the warts that still exist on this team, I don’t know what to tell you.
And my two Premium Xavier Season tickets are just fine, thank you.
Where are yours?[

That last part stings a bit. I was there when Gary Massa scored his 1000 point, I was there when Xavier played Alcorn State in Dayton, I was there when Xavier beat Missouri and played and should have beat Duke in Indy, when Leroy Greenidge was handing out wrist bands out of introductions at Schmidt, i was there getting autographs at the gardens from McBride and others, I was there when Byron scored 45 in the MCC tourney, when David West scored 47 against Dayton, when Xavier fans stomped the floor in Dayton, when Xavier beat Creighton on New Years, when we beat Indiana in Chicago, beat Louisville in Cincy and on. That’s off the top of my head, there were many more. Don’t question my fandom.

I think I've got you beat. I went to my first game in 1974- Xavier 105 Union 49. After that game, I thought X was the best team in the country. I was there when X lost to NKU, at home, when the attendance at games would be 800 (estimated), when Tay Baker's recruiting classes consisted of 2 or 3 guys from the GCL.

It's nothing short of amazing how far X has come, particularly a school of our size.

[XU 87]

Buddy
And I sat through 3-23 and 5-21, so don’t think I know it could be worse.
.

And you have me beat. The Krajack and Dick Campbell years were before my time.

I'm still trying to figure out whose great idea it was to then hire UC's former coach who got fired by UC.

[Lloyd Braun]

I’m not sure what’s more embarrassing: the premise of this thread in general or the pissing match that it contains to prove who has the biggest boner for X basketball. Next topic will be how much somebody donates to the AFO club annually just to prove the point!

The team has warts but are clearly due to personnel and not coaching. I’m not saying Steele is going to be John Wooden but the guy needs some time and players that he recruited to play for him. End of story

[xu koop scoop]

Completely supportive of the Steele Wheel. This message board did a Poll on who should be our Next Coach prior to Steele being selected. It seems he won the Poll by a fairly good margin. Once he gets us to another Elite 8, Final 4 or simply wins a BE Regular Season or BE Tourney, maybe he will stick around :tumbleweeds::tumbleweeds:ala Mark Few or Jay Wright. Someday we may look at him as a Steele of a Deal. Go Travis !

[XU 87]

I’m not sure what’s more embarrassing: the premise of this thread in general or the pissing match that it contains to prove who has the biggest boner for X basketball. Next topic will be how much somebody donates to the AFO club annually just to prove the point!



I think it's clear that I'm definitely the best fan on this board. And don't even get me going re: my AFO donations. I was a little upset that they named the floor after Kolhepp instead of me.

[chico]

I think it's clear that I'm definitely the best fan on this board. And don't even get me going re: my AFO donations. I was a little upset that they named the floor after Kolhepp instead of me.

I knew you were really sweet16 this whole time.

[XU 87]

[QUOTE=chico;667632]I knew you were really sweet16 this whole time.[/

That's a low blow.

But I'm definitely a bigger fan than you. You're just a really good fan. I'm a few levels above that.

[MADXSTER]

I AM THE REASON FOR XAVIER'S SUCCESS!!!

While attending UC (couldn't afford Xavier and I have no idea if they had student loans back then) and working my way through college, I purchased Xavier season tickets to root on Byron Larkin (who I rooted against in HS, but then we GCL students band together after HS) and the rest is history. My season ticket cost was $87.00 and there was around 2500 fans in attendance(guessing).

YOU ARE ALL WELCOME

[94GRAD]

[QUOTE=chico;667632]I knew you were really sweet16 this whole time.[/

That's a low blow.

But I'm definitely a bigger fan than you. You're just a really good fan. I'm a few levels above that.

Where am I on this fandom list?

[paulxu]

You're a fan if you saw Steve Thomas play while you were attending X.

(Hello Bobbie!)

[Get Real]

I think it's clear that I'm definitely the best fan on this board. And don't even get me going re: my AFO donations. I was a little upset that they named the floor after Kolhepp instead of me.

Instead of you?

[xudash]

I used to sit in Schmidt Memorial Fieldhouse, semi-relaxed on 3.2 Hudepohl Beer, looking at the top of Tay Baker's head, and imaging how easy it would be to land helicopters on its perfectly flat, quaffed surface. I would do that while watching Xavier get beat like a rented mule at the hands of Notre Dame.

I would like to think that I'm a deserving fan.

'94, I know you travel to games and you own a fine establishment, you are a fan.

Mad, thank you for launching us with Byron!

Paul, I would have loved to have watched Steve Thomas play.

'87, I was told you came up about $3.75 from Bob's donation, give or take a lo...little.

[xu82]

I AM THE REASON FOR XAVIER'S SUCCESS!!!

While attending UC (couldn't afford Xavier and I have no idea if they had student loans back then) and working my way through college, I purchased Xavier season tickets to root on Byron Larkin (who I rooted against in HS, but then we GCL students band together after HS) and the rest is history. My season ticket cost was $87.00 and there was around 2500 fans in attendance(guessing).

YOU ARE ALL WELCOME

THANK YOU! Where would we be without you?

[paulxu]

Dash, public reps...Trump is holding me down for some reason.

My turn to buy next time at Dana's !

[bjf123]

You're a fan if you saw Steve Thomas play while you were attending X.

(Hello Bobbie!)

I wasn’t a student at the time, but I did see Steve Thomas play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UCGRAD4X]

I'm just a low rent hanger-on. My donations usually end up, not on the floor but a different Wood. I'm just riding on a swell of old smelly grey coat-tales.

(actually I did see games at Schmidt....is it possible to be too old to remember Steve Thomas? I do remember Danny Thomas...does that count?...)

[chico]

[QUOTE=chico;667632]I knew you were really sweet16 this whole time.[/

That's a low blow.

But I'm definitely a bigger fan than you. You're just a really good fan. I'm a few levels above that.

Your are likely correct about this.

[xudash]

Dash, public reps...Trump is holding me down for some reason.

My turn to buy next time at Dana's !

Looking forward to that day Paul, and not just because of the free cocktails. Go X!

[OTRMUSKIE]

We suck

[Masterofreality]

And you have me beat. The Krajack and Dick Campbell years were before my time.

I'm still trying to figure out whose great idea it was to then hire UC's former coach who got fired by UC.

Actually ‘87 It was Mulligan, who was trying to take the whole program to DIII

[Masterofreality]

Props to Steele on the fantastic coaching job today!!! WOW!!!

[OTRMUSKIE]

Travis shit them down, but what do you want him to do when your team can’t make baskets? This team is just not elite. They would be done in the A-10 but not the beast. Oh well, got to win 3/4 or 2/4 and two in beast.

[xavierj]

I didn’t realize how bad Chris Mack’s recruiting was at until I just looked back. There was some real crap most years and most guys never worked out. To be honest his only class that had great success was the one with Trevon and JP. Man did he get lucky with them and was able to parlay it into the Louisville job. His other good years were mostly with Sean’s guys. I have faith Travis will bring in much more consistent classes which will lead to more success in my opinion. Maybe we will finally brake the door down with some consistency and tenure with recruiting. I think the crap we have seen the last two years will be a blip once Travis has his full guys and the system he wants in place.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Chris Mack sucked. Anybody who thought he was a good coach was young or related

[IM4X]

Chris Mack sucked. Anybody who thought he was a good coach was young or related

What are you talking about- Uncle Christoper was a great coach.

[paulxu]

Chris Mack sucked. Anybody who thought he was a good coach was young or related

You know, I just don't get this. I understand being upset Mack left for Louisville, but.....

He was National Coach of the Year
Has the most wins of any XU coach
Had the most S16's of any coach, and an E8
Lead us to the highest poll rating in history, and our only #1 NCAA seed

So, you don't like him personally, or because he left for another job.
But to think he didn't know how to coach seems a little strange.
And no...I'm neither related, nor young.

[xavierj]

You know, I just don't get this. I understand being upset Mack left for Louisville, but.....

He was National Coach of the Year
Has the most wins of any XU coach
Had the most S16's of any coach, and an E8
Lead us to the highest poll rating in history, and our only #1 NCAA seed

So, you don't like him personally, or because he left for another job.
But to think he didn't know how to coach seems a little strange.
And no...I'm neither related, nor young.

I think he can coach but not convinced he is a great defensive coach and I also think his big ego still gets the best of him. If you look back at his recruiting classes at Xavier it is kind of nuts how few of the guys he recruited panned out and or lasted four years. He is playing with Rick’s guys now, like he did with Sean’s guys at first. He has a really big class now and only like one of his 6 recruits really sees the floor. Will be interesting to see how many of his first class leave the program. If he has a few, that will show it’s still the same with him. He does better getting transfers in my opinion.

[bleedXblue]

We have no choice but to wait this out with Steele. This sucks. We are no better a team today than the first day if the season. Progression by Jones and that's about it. Glimpses of hope with KyKy and ZF. I have no doubt a more veteran coach would have this team with 3-4 more wins. Hard to have faith when you see regression in a team that has enough talent to be in the NCAA's.

[IM4X]

You know, I just don't get this. I understand being upset Mack left for Louisville, but.....

He was National Coach of the Year
Has the most wins of any XU coach
Had the most S16's of any coach, and an E8
Lead us to the highest poll rating in history, and our only #1 NCAA seed

So, you don't like him personally, or because he left for another job.
But to think he didn't know how to coach seems a little strange.
And no...I'm neither related, nor young.

Honestly, I never cared for Mack’s smugness, especially with how he handled the media. He is definitely N above average coach, though, made even because of his talented assistances. He did not have the quite the loyalty, integrity or talent as say a Jay Wright... and he knew damn well that if he didn’t take that obscenely generous offer by Louisville, he was going to be stuck with a much less talented team for years and likely lose a bit of his hype as one of the high profile coaches to poach.

One thing that will sting for Mack the rest of his life is that he knows he had an elitely talented 1 seed team his final season at X and literally
squandered the perfect opportunity to prove he could take that talent and coach them to the final four.

Personally. I feel like Steele has much more integrity and may even be a little more loyal. Always found it amusing when Mack would say, “The Big East is the best college basketball conference in the country.” ...and then as soon as he took the Louisville job he said, “The ACC is the best college basketball conference in the country... and it is not even close.”

[xavierj]

We have no choice but to wait this out with Steele. This sucks. We are no better a team today than the first day if the season. Progression by Jones and that's about it. Glimpses of hope with KyKy and ZF. I have no doubt a more veteran coach would have this team with 3-4 more wins. Hard to have faith when you see regression in a team that has enough talent to be in the NCAA's.

If the season ended today they would be in the NCAA.

[bleedXblue]

If the season ended today they would be in the NCAA.

It doesn't, we've lost 2 of the last 3 and haven't played well at all in any of those games. Season isn't over, but getting to 20 wins seems unlikely me to. I hope I am wrong.

[AviatorX]

It doesn't, we've lost 2 of the last 3 and haven't played well at all in any of those games. Season isn't over, but getting to 20 wins seems unlikely me to. I hope I am wrong.

Jeez man, this is a seriously negative way to paint the last month. What would your take be if X beat Nova? Because the fortunes of a team that’s pretty much playing to be an 8-12 seed should not swing that wildly on losing one Q1 game. Especially when that team already has a massive marquee Q1 win and the strength of the resume after that is “no bad losses.”

[bleedXblue]

Jeez man, this is a seriously negative way to paint the last month. What would your take be if X beat Nova? Because the fortunes of a team that’s pretty much playing to be an 8-12 seed should not swing that wildly on losing one Q1 game. Especially when that team already has a massive marquee Q1 win and the strength of the resume after that is “no bad losses.”

Again, If we were playing good basketball right now (like late last year when the team put together a bunch of good games in a row) I feel completely different than I do. You literally have no idea what this team is going to do from 1 game to the next. The only guy you can count on right now is Tyrique. Our guard play the last 3 games has been really poor......

[AviatorX]

Again, If we were playing good basketball right now (like late last year when the team put together a bunch of good games in a row) I feel completely different than I do. You literally have no idea what this team is going to do from 1 game to the next. The only guy you can count on right now is Tyrique.

Fair enough. I honestly admire your commitment and focus on wanting good basketball played (although I firmly believe people are really putting a favorable spin on February of last season). I don’t care what it looks like, they’ve been getting the results they need. And honestly the efforts against SH, DePaul and Providence weren’t exactly wildly inconsistent.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Mack sucked end of story and he still sucks at ville. I have no evidence to really back this up but he sucks.

[bleedXblue]

Fair enough. I honestly admire your commitment and focus on wanting good basketball played (although I firmly believe people are really putting a favorable spin on February of last season). I don’t care what it looks like, they’ve been getting the results they need. And honestly the efforts against SH, DePaul and Providence weren’t exactly wildly inconsistent.

Yes after those game, I was feeling pretty bullish we had turned the corner. The last 3 have been shitty performances. We escaped St J's and were very, very lucky. Its one game at a time for this team. MUST win on Tuesday.

[xavierj]

Yes after those game, I was feeling pretty bullish we had turned the corner. The last 3 have been shitty performances. We escaped St J's and were very, very lucky. Its one game at a time for this team. MUST win on Tuesday.

Don’t ever apologize about a road win in New York at Madison Square Garden, in the Big East. St Johns was desperate and had just beaten Providence. They felt they still had a chance. St. John’s forces 17 turnover per game in the Big East. Butler turned it over 23 times against them. St. John’s beat Arizona and West Virginia. Every win in the Big East is a good win this year. Frankly X might be the least talented team in the Big East. I think every other team has at least one NBA player at some point. I don’t think Xavier does.

[Xavier]

The Mack hate is bizarre. He’s the most successful coach in Xavier history....if you think he’s a bad coach then you probably think X hasn’t had a solid coach yet.

[X-band '01]

It doesn't, we've lost 2 of the last 3 and haven't played well at all in any of those games. Season isn't over, but getting to 20 wins seems unlikely me to. I hope I am wrong.

To get to 20 before the Big East Tournament requires 3 more wins - DePaul and Butler are both winnable at home, and getting a split on the final road trip to Georgetown and Providence would get it done.

Still, you never know which Georgetown team shows up on any given night - they lost at DePaul last night. Providence is catching fire and I think they may end up being the seventh Big East team instead of the Hoyas. While Xavier hasn't had a high quantity of quality wins this year, it would still take a collapse IMHO for them to not make the NCAAs.

[XU 87]

Mack sucked end of story and he still sucks at ville. I have no evidence to really back this up but he sucks.

I agree. Other than his three Sweet 16's, elite 8, BE Championship, #1 seed, and #2 seed, what the hell did he do here?

(And I think a few didn't pick up on your sarcasm font.)

On another note- I brought my "A" game yesterday. I was loud as hell, and again confirmed that I am X's top fan.

[94GRAD]

I agree. Other than his three Sweet 16's, elite 8, BE Championship, #1 seed, and #2 seed, what the hell did he do here?

(And I think a few didn't pick up on your sarcasm font.)

On another note- I brought my "A" game yesterday. I was loud as hell, and again confirmed that I am X's top fan.

B- at best! I didn't see a single "huddle dance" from your crew.

[X-Expert]

Mack did great for X and pretty successful at Louisville. but make no mistake, he had a foot out the door before the season started. There is a reason he told some recruits (specifically David Johnson) during his recruitment for X, johnson said mack told him "you can play for me wherever i am next year." Mack woke up on 3rd base when he got to X when he was handed Crawford and Tu. He recruited and coached some very good teams that absolutely under-achieved (most recently with Bluitt and Macura). He also under achieved with Frease, Tu, and Lyons and again with Reynolds, Farr, and Miles. He did overachieve in their last elite 8 performance when Sumner got hurt. I don't blame Mack for chasing the money but screwed X on the way out. People tried to make him out to be a good guy by telling Hankins to honor his commitment to X. Thats because Louisville didn't need him. If he really wanted to be a stand up guy, Johnson wold be wearing an X uniform.

[Xavier]

One foot out the door before season started and he gave X there best regular season ever? I’ll take that.

[xavierj]

One foot out the door before season started and he gave X there best regular season ever? I’ll take that.

Only thing I remember about that year was the annual butt kicking in Philly, losing early in the tourney and then not having a recruiting class. Awesome best year ever.

[Xavier]

Didn’t they win the big east that year?

[flatspat]

Ditto

[xavierj]

Didn’t they win the big east that year?

Do you think more people remember that or blowing the game against Florida State. And didn’t they share it or something? They were stomped twice that year by Nova.

[xavierj]

The year before was much more memorable. Great that they had a good regular season. Sucks they had a coach leave and didn’t leave the program with much. When Sean left he left Chris with a full deck. Chris left Steele with some role players and no recruiting class. Last year Xavier basically played without a senior class and a freshman recruiting class all under Mack’s watch. Steele has to try to get transfers because he had no seniors or freshman. That’s nuts. Thanks for coming out Chris.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I know I started this thread but I like Travis now. It’s clear he is getting the most out of these guys. The problem is these guys are awful shooters, not much you can do about that. The defense has been great and when we get some
Shooters in here we are going to be hard to stop.

[xukeith]

If it makes you feel better, Steele is recruiting and signing 6'3-6'6 guards in the Q, Scruggs, Marshall mold.
I hope they are better shooters while maxing out the best defensive team in history.
X needs only 10 % better shooters. ( Not 10% + 29% = 39%) but 1.10 x 34% shooters = 37.4% shooters.

[xukeith]

typo. oops

[Xville]

One foot out the door before season started and he gave X there best regular season ever? I’ll take that.

And not getting out of the first weekend? Screw that...I'll take a 6 seed and a final four trip over that crap

[xukeith]

Glad we are not Virginia fans after swinging and missing against UMBC. You never know how a team does after gathering thoughts. looking at those suicidal students and fans was kinda cool.

[scoscox]

I know I started this thread but I like Travis now. It’s clear he is getting the most out of these guys. The problem is these guys are awful shooters, not much you can do about that. The defense has been great and when we get some
Shooters in here we are going to be hard to stop.

but will the shooters defend?

i don't like blaming all of our problems on personnel

[vee4xu]

Mack sucked end of story and he still sucks at ville. I have no evidence to really back this up but he sucks.

Pure, raw emotion can be a great rationalizing motivator. I feel that same way and that's what I tell myself, anyway.

[vee4xu]

but will the shooters defend?

i don't like blaming all of our problems on personnel

Learning how to dribble in traffic is not one of this team's strong suites. That is one of, if not the biggest reasons for all of the turnovers.

[X-band '01]

Glad we are not Virginia fans after swinging and missing against UMBC. You never know how a team does after gathering thoughts. looking at those suicidal students and fans was kinda cool.

Glad I'm not an Auburn fan toilet papering trees on Toomer's Corner and doing S-E-C chants only to learn they lost the game instead to UVa.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Do you think more people remember that or blowing the game against Florida State. And didn’t they share it or something? They were stomped twice that year by Nova.

They were stomped by Nova twice but Nova had one more loss than us, we did not share the BE championship.

[Xavier]

And not getting out of the first weekend? Screw that...I'll take a 6 seed and a final four trip over that crap

Which coach had a more successful career at X than Mack?

[bleedXblue]

Can we please move on from Mack? Jeez

We have another coach to complain about now........

[Masterofreality]

Yes after those game, I was feeling pretty bullish we had turned the corner. The last 3 have been shitty performances. We escaped St J's and were very, very lucky. Its one game at a time for this team. MUST win on Tuesday.

We were very lucky vs St. Johns and our "offense" is stuck in the mud offensive. We scored 55 freaking points at home in a big game when Villanova shot 25% from 3 and although Butler had an off game at home, we couldn't come close to scoring 70 like Georgetown did there. I was at that game Saturday and Wright knew exactly where our guys would be and knew exactly what to throw up against us. We run the same freaking set every time, one that takes Tyrique or some other big away from the basket so, even though we may have a size advantage, we never get offensive rebounds to score from. And forget ever seeing a back door cut from this team even though the opposition is pressing us out top. Villanova is not a turnover forcing team but we had 13 to their 9 and they had 8 steals against us because they knew exactly what we were going to do.
The lack of utilization of all of our weapons through a Creighton-like multiple screen, wing cut, offense is mind boggling as is our lack of constant movement. We STILL throw the ball around the arc, have Ty come up to set one high screen, then it's HEY, one-on-one basketball with either Naji or Scruggs- sometimes rather than shooting, making a post feed into a double team.
More Cronin-like every game that goes by.


Don’t ever apologize about a road win in New York at Madison Square Garden, in the Big East. St Johns was desperate and had just beaten Providence. They felt they still had a chance. St. John’s forces 17 turnover per game in the Big East. Butler turned it over 23 times against them. St. John’s beat Arizona and West Virginia. Every win in the Big East is a good win this year. Frankly X might be the least talented team in the Big East. I think every other team has at least one NBA player at some point. I don’t think Xavier does.

Nah. An apology is in order. It took a missed free throw from a 78% FT shooter on the front end of a 1-1 to even give us a chance to have the Naji-Zach scoring play. And St. Johns was without one of their best players in Heron who conributed to that WVA win and averaged 14 PPG. And for you to say that X is the least talented team in the Big East is ridiculous. The talent has been shown before. They've just been coached down through an awful offensive "system". We've scored 64, 61, 77(albeit vs an uptempo frantic team St. Johns, and 55 points in our last 4 games. We are easily defensed now through scouting, the sets are simplistic and do not take full advantage of these guys' talents---at all.

[paulxu]

as is our lack of constant movement.

This is the major thing that bothers me about this team.

[AviatorX]

I know this is a facts optional thread, but Xavier is a very very good offensive rebounding team. They offensive rebound just over 32% of their misses, good for the 50th best rate in the country. Tyrique is 7th in the country on an individual basis. It's the best part of the team's offense.

I'm actually not sure how one can wonder about why Xavier's offense doesn't more resemble Creighton's when you consider the astronomical differences in roster makeup. Don't think you could pick a worse example. There are plenty of improvements that can be made to Xavier's offense, but wanting this group to play like Creighton is hilarious. That's like wanting the 2018 team to play the packline more like Virginia.

[xeus]

I know I started this thread but I like Travis now. It’s clear he is getting the most out of these guys.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[XU 87]

The offense would look much better if this team would just make some open shots. In the first half, Carter missed two layups and Naji missed a layup. Goodin missed two wide open threes. Tyrique is the best player on the team right now, but he doesn't have much touch either around the basket when he's contested.

When guys make baskets it makes your offense look better. And when guys miss shots, it makes your offense look worse. For the most part on Saturday, I thought X got a lot of decent looks. They just didn't make any shots. They aren't gong to win much if Freemantle and Carter combine for 5 points.

Travis was sort of the offensive coordinator for Mack. I doubt he forgot everything they did under Mack.

[Xville]

Which coach had a more successful career at X than Mack?

If you gauge it by winning percentage, hes the least successful coach since staak, but which coach was the most successful wasnt really my point. My point was that a great regular season with an early flameout is to me not a successful overall season. Regular season means squat in college basketball if you dont parlay that into postseason success

[AviatorX]

If you gauge it by winning percentage, hes the least successful coach since staak, but which coach was the most successful wasnt really my point. My point was that a great regular season with an early flameout is to me not a successful overall season. Regular season means squat in college basketball if you dont parlay that into postseason success

I mean winning percentage is a pretty dishonest way to evaluate things considering level of competition.

Flaming out early as a 1 and 2 seed sucked, but getting those seeds (and the regular seasons leading to them) was incredible and very important for the program. Let's not lose that perspective.

[XU 87]

If you gauge it by winning percentage, hes the least successful coach since staak, but which coach was the most successful wasnt really my point. My point was that a great regular season with an early flameout is to me not a successful overall season. Regular season means squat in college basketball if you dont parlay that into postseason success

Too bad you didn't get to enjoy those seasons where we got a one and two seed. It was a lot of fun winning all those games.

[Masterofreality]

And I can't remember which thread it was on- either this one or the Villanova game one- but someone asked me what breakout of minutes I would do with this team. It's not that simple, because it depends on who the opposition is, what matchups are on the floor and what the flow of the game looks like. But..

STARTERS: Tyrique, Zach, Naji, Scruggy and EITHER KyKy or Moore, (or maybe even a Q sighting if he's into it?) depending if the other team has a stud like a Howard or Powell or Baldwin. Moore would start vs those guys for defense and he has shown he can make a shot or two. NO CARTER starting or at crunch. He played 27 useless minutes Saturday. 2 rebounds and 4 missed bunnies with one made 3. Every game- rinse repeat...same.

Kyky is my first sub off the bench for whoever needs it early around the under 16 TO for either Scruggy or Moore, and I'd consider giving Q a few minutes with KyKy on the floor..IF Q stops trying 3's and drives the ball. Let KyKy stretch the floor. I'm bringing Carter in at around the under 16 for Free for a couple minutes then letting him stay in there for a couple minutes after while Ty gets a rest and Free comes back in, bracketing the TV time out. Then, I have to give Naji a blow around the under 12. for the TV timeout plus a couple of other minutes. At that point I've got Free, Ty, Carter OR most probably Don James/Q in there plus Scruggy and either KyKy or Moore/Q depending on matchups. Q spices in here and there if we want to go small and no Don/Carter with Scruggy and KyKy. Naji can't keep playing 39 minutes like he did Saturday. And IF Bishop was still here...and not blown out by lack of playing time, he could have been taking a few minutes for Naji, but that is no longer available. Probably because of Xavier Way points. (Eye Roll)

The rest of the game is set up based upon matchups. But our best lineup is Ty, Free, Scruggy, Naji, and Moore/KyKy depending on D or O needed and to start or at crunch. Q can D if he's focused so if Moore is too small, I'd give Q more time.
So, in essence, giving out the 200 available player minutes, in general, I have it parceled out this way, but subject to matchups and game pace- OH, and also, who was HOT or having an exceptional game that day.
Tyrique-32
Free-30
Naji- 34-36
Scruggy- 30
KyKy- 24
Q- 15-13
Carter- 15
Moore- 12
James-8

This staff seems to have little feel for the way the game is going- until they get desperate, like falling behind by 7 at St. Johns at 8 minutes left- THEN going zone- almost too late.

[Xavier]

The lack of utilization of all of our weapons through a Creighton-like multiple screen, wing cut, offense is mind boggling as is our lack of constant movement. We STILL throw the ball around the arc, have Ty come up to set one high screen, then it's HEY, one-on-one basketball with either Naji or Scruggs- sometimes rather than shooting, making a post feed into a double team.
More Cronin-like every game that goes by.




I agree the offense is tough to watch (and has been the past two years). It still is tough to tell- is it coaching or talent? I do think you are overestimating the talent. I don't think we have the talent, or more importantly the bball IQ, to pull off multiple screens/cutting/etc.

It almost feels like the more movement the more we are likely to have another dumb turnover. I will say I think I finally saw a couple of plays drawn up to get KyKy an open look (he missed both) yesterday.

[Masterofreality]

I know this is a facts optional thread, but Xavier is a very very good offensive rebounding team. They offensive rebound just over 32% of their misses, good for the 50th best rate in the country. Tyrique is 7th in the country on an individual basis. It's the best part of the team's offense.

I'm actually not sure how one can wonder about why Xavier's offense doesn't more resemble Creighton's when you consider the astronomical differences in roster makeup. Don't think you could pick a worse example. There are plenty of improvements that can be made to Xavier's offense, but wanting this group to play like Creighton is hilarious. That's like wanting the 2018 team to play the packline more like Virginia.

What is hilarious is our 1 screen offense with guys standing around watching. Creighton, Nova, Seton Hall etc run at least 3-4 screens a posession. Our guys can move, they aren't asked to. Movement creates mismatches. Just like Wright did to us all game long Saturday. He couldn't wait to get KyKy on an island, and they did it all the time. Scruggy can shoot. KyKy can shoot. Naji can shoot if his feet are set. Moore can knock some down. So can Free. We don't utilize picks to free guys up well enough.

But, yeah. Keep doing the same trash and expect a different result.

[Masterofreality]

I agree the offense is tough to watch (and has been the past two years). It still is tough to tell- is it coaching or talent? I do think you are overestimating the talent. I don't think we have the talent, or more importantly the bball IQ, to pull off multiple screens/cutting/etc.

It almost feels like the more movement the more we are likely to have another dumb turnover. I will say I think I finally saw a couple of plays drawn up to get KyKy an open look (he missed both) yesterday.

It has to be TAUGHT!! You think that Creighton's guys- or any players from AAU for that matter- come in with that kind of offense set mindset? Hell, they are just playing street ball in AAU so that's why I always discount these mixtapes. Irrelevant.

And those "open looks" for KyKy were from 27 feet. Not good schematics.

[Xville]

I mean winning percentage is a pretty dishonest way to evaluate things considering level of competition.

Flaming out early as a 1 and 2 seed sucked, but getting those seeds (and the regular seasons leading to them) was incredible and very important for the program. Let's not lose that perspective.

I completely agree regarding the winning percentage statement, but since my statement had little to do with what coach had the most success, I thought I'd just throw that in for kicks.

Regarding the regular season success, to each their own. I'll take above average seasons with elite eight appearances over a regular season paper champ early tourney flameout any day.

[xavierj]

It has to be TAUGHT!! You think that Creighton's guys- or any players from AAU for that matter- come in with that kind of offense set mindset? Hell, they are just playing street ball in AAU so that's why I always discount these mixtapes. Irrelevant.

And those "open looks" for KyKy were from 27 feet. Not good schematics.

Xavier missed 18 layups on Saturday. Make a freaking open layup. It’s mind boggling how many easy shots this team misses. Screening and back cuts or not, in the two games against Nova Xavier missed a ton of looks most teams would love to have. Blame whatever you want, coaches or players, but they are freaking layups.

[BandDad]

We were very lucky vs St. Johns and our "offense" is stuck in the mud offensive. We scored 55 freaking points at home in a big game when Villanova shot 25% from 3 and although Butler had an off game at home, we couldn't come close to scoring 70 like Georgetown did there. I was at that game Saturday and Wright knew exactly where our guys would be and knew exactly what to throw up against us. We run the same freaking set every time, one that takes Tyrique or some other big away from the basket so, even though we may have a size advantage, we never get offensive rebounds to score from. And forget ever seeing a back door cut from this team even though the opposition is pressing us out top. Villanova is not a turnover forcing team but we had 13 to their 9 and they had 8 steals against us because they knew exactly what we were going to do.
The lack of utilization of all of our weapons through a Creighton-like multiple screen, wing cut, offense is mind boggling as is our lack of constant movement. We STILL throw the ball around the arc, have Ty come up to set one high screen, then it's HEY, one-on-one basketball with either Naji or Scruggs- sometimes rather than shooting, making a post feed into a double team.
More Cronin-like every game that goes by.



Nah. An apology is in order. It took a missed free throw from a 78% FT shooter on the front end of a 1-1 to even give us a chance to have the Naji-Zach scoring play. And St. Johns was without one of their best players in Heron who conributed to that WVA win and averaged 14 PPG. And for you to say that X is the least talented team in the Big East is ridiculous. The talent has been shown before. They've just been coached down through an awful offensive "system". We've scored 64, 61, 77(albeit vs an uptempo frantic team St. Johns, and 55 points in our last 4 games. We are easily defensed now through scouting, the sets are simplistic and do not take full advantage of these guys' talents---at all.

Back door cuts are still legal? I thought the NCAA must have changed the rule this year that outlawed them because I haven't seen them from Xavier this year?

[XU 23]

Only thing I remember about that year was the annual butt kicking in Philly, losing early in the tourney and then not having a recruiting class. Awesome best year ever.

I believe that was also the year where we were top 5 in the country for a large portion of the season, finished 27-4, won the Big East outright, got a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament, smoked UC, and made Mick Cronin look like a fool. Other than that... I agree with you that it was a bad season.

[AviatorX]

Trying to decide which school of thought is harder to wrap my head around: the 2018 season wasn't good or this offense can be fixed with more screens and backdoor cuts.

[xavierj]

I believe that was also the year where we were top 5 in the country for a large portion of the season, finished 27-4, won the Big East outright, got a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament, smoked UC, and made Mick Cronin look like a fool. Other than that... I agree with you that it was a bad season.

Yes and then Xavier was left with nothing to continue success for the most. No seniors, a new coach and no recruiting class. When Sean left, Chris took over a team with Jordan Crawford, TU Holloway, Jason Love, Jamel McLean, Mark Lyons, Dante Jackson, and Kenny Frease.

[xavierj]

We were very lucky vs St. Johns and our "offense" is stuck in the mud offensive. We scored 55 freaking points at home in a big game when Villanova shot 25% from 3 and although Butler had an off game at home, we couldn't come close to scoring 70 like Georgetown did there. I was at that game Saturday and Wright knew exactly where our guys would be and knew exactly what to throw up against us. We run the same freaking set every time, one that takes Tyrique or some other big away from the basket so, even though we may have a size advantage, we never get offensive rebounds to score from. And forget ever seeing a back door cut from this team even though the opposition is pressing us out top. Villanova is not a turnover forcing team but we had 13 to their 9 and they had 8 steals against us because they knew exactly what we were going to do.
The lack of utilization of all of our weapons through a Creighton-like multiple screen, wing cut, offense is mind boggling as is our lack of constant movement. We STILL throw the ball around the arc, have Ty come up to set one high screen, then it's HEY, one-on-one basketball with either Naji or Scruggs- sometimes rather than shooting, making a post feed into a double team.
More Cronin-like every game that goes by.



Nah. An apology is in order. It took a missed free throw from a 78% FT shooter on the front end of a 1-1 to even give us a chance to have the Naji-Zach scoring play. And St. Johns was without one of their best players in Heron who conributed to that WVA win and averaged 14 PPG. And for you to say that X is the least talented team in the Big East is ridiculous. The talent has been shown before. They've just been coached down through an awful offensive "system". We've scored 64, 61, 77(albeit vs an uptempo frantic team St. Johns, and 55 points in our last 4 games. We are easily defensed now through scouting, the sets are simplistic and do not take full advantage of these guys' talents---at all.

How is the talent not down compared to the rest of the league? I think every team in the league has guys that will be drafted at some point other than Xavier and probably Butler. Xavier plays two Freshman in the top 6, a couple of good older players who are very streaky scorers with low basketball IQ, a MAC transfer, and undersized center with a lot of heart who can’t shoot outside of 2 feet and no point guard. I think some people expect miracles. Hopefully Travis is recruiting guys that can change all of the cards he currently has To work with. Maybe you are right and the staff sucks but maybe they are just trying to do what they can to win with the hand they have.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I still don’t understand how Travis was left with no one? There are 4 ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ players on this team. That’s pretty damn good. The graduate students are the ones that have really killed us. Carter, Moore are just not big East players. If we had those two replaced by 2 4 star bog East recruits I think we be in better position. We knew going into the Beast there would be seasons like this. 8/10 years making the dance was the compromise we were willing to make in order to be in the beast. Sure if we were in the A-10 we would
Dominate and VD would suck as usual. We arnt part of that tertiary conference anymore. We are in a position to be national title contenders a couple of times a decade now. Let’s just enjoy the ride because I think it’s going to pay off for us and Steele very very soon.

[bjf123]

Our offense does seem very predictable at the start of every possession. If the opponent’s D takes away our first pass, we seem to have no idea what to do next.

As for screens, it seems like our guys don’t know how to set a pick, though this is not new to Steele’s tenure. Our guy setting the pick moves too soon which lets the defender stay with his man. Watch Butler or Creighton set a pick. Their guy doesn’t move until our defender has hit him, leaving the ball handler open and setting up a pick and roll. Hell, sometimes their guy leans into the defender to make sure there’s contact to let the ball handler get open. It’s not rocket science.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xcellentx]

I still don’t understand how Travis was left with no one? There are 4 ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ players on this team. That’s pretty damn good. The graduate students are the ones that have really killed us. Carter, Moore are just not big East players. If we had those two replaced by 2 4 star bog East recruits I think we be in better position. We knew going into the Beast there would be seasons like this. 8/10 years making the dance was the compromise we were willing to make in order to be in the beast. Sure if we were in the A-10 we would
Dominate and VD would suck as usual. We arnt part of that tertiary conference anymore. We are in a position to be national title contenders a couple of times a decade now. Let’s just enjoy the ride because I think it’s going to pay off for us and Steele very very soon.

I think to say Steele was left with no one is incorrect. That said, the pieces he was left with don't fit together in the way you would like. And Mack's last recruiting class has done nothing for us. I know people have complained about some of the grad transfers, but they were basically needed to field a team because we had no one else. If Mack's last class had a KyKy or Bluiett type I think we would be much better off this year and maybe won a few games last year to get us in the tournament.

[XU 23]

Yes and then Xavier was left with nothing to continue success for the most. No seniors, a new coach and no recruiting class. When Sean left, Chris took over a team with Jordan Crawford, TU Holloway, Jason Love, Jamel McLean, Mark Lyons, Dante Jackson, and Kenny Frease.

Guys graduated and new guys came in to fill their spots. It happens. We are not Duke where we can just reload into a top 5 team every single year. And, we still had Naji and Scruggs who were two highly rated recruits, so it’s not like Mack left Steele with absolutely nothing.

[XU 87]

Guys graduated and new guys came in to fill their spots. It happens. We are not Duke where we can just reload into a top 5 team every single year. And, we still had Naji and Scruggs who were two highly rated recruits, so it’s not like Mack left Steele with absolutely nothing.

X lost 4 key players after Mack's last year, and had a terrible recruiting class coming in (only two players who were both ranked above the top 200). While I agree that Travis was left with some talent (Scruggs, Naji, Tyrique, and arguably Goodin) it was limited in both individual talent and overall depth. And the only real shooter on last year's team was that skinny transfer from San Jose.

[xavierj]

Guys graduated and new guys came in to fill their spots. It happens. We are not Duke where we can just reload into a top 5 team every single year. And, we still had Naji and Scruggs who were two highly rated recruits, so it’s not like Mack left Steele with absolutely nothing.

Yes Scruggs and Naji would be good with a point guard. Problem is Xavier signed one in the last 4 years Goodin, who everyone agrees isn’t the answer. How does a program not bring a point guard every other year? Steele recognized and his main priority from jump was Odom.

[Masterofreality]

Trying to decide which school of thought is harder to wrap my head around: the 2018 season wasn't good or this offense can be fixed with more screens and backdoor cuts.

If you don’t believe me, read BJF123’s response previously.
We can’t score 70 points with 4 former 4 star recruits. Quit blaming the players. They’re trying their best to succeed in a trash system.

[Masterofreality]

Yes Scruggs and Naji would be good with a point guard. Problem is Xavier signed one in the last 4 years Goodin, who everyone agrees isn’t the answer. How does a program not bring a point guard every other year? Steele recognized and his main priority from jump was Odom.

A point guard who just scored his 1,000th point, but has been Coached down.

[AviatorX]

If you don’t believe me, read BJF123’s response previously.
We can’t score 70 points with 4 former 4 star recruits. Quit blaming the players. They’re trying their best to succeed in a trash system.

There's nothing to believe or not believe.

It's not blaming the players to say their skill sets (in combination) do not lend themselves to playing the offensive system you want to see. It's not an excuse for the coaches - go ahead and blame them 100% for roster construction - it's just reality.

No coach in their right mind would build the roster Xavier has right now, but unfortunately there's no free agency or trade market in college basketball so it takes time to turn the roster over. The class of 2018 and the complementary pieces of the class of 2017 are complete zeroes across the board. That takes its toll. That's before we even get into the complicated merits of the class of 2016.

Let's make it even simpler than roster construction vs. coaching. Do you think this is what Travis Steele wants the offense to look like? I certainly do not. But apparently you do.

[Xville]

A point guard who just scored his 1,000th point, but has been Coached down.

Hes not been coached down, hes just not good without all americans around him. Hes not a dog, hes a role player who thinks hes a dog

[Xavier]

He can be serviceable with a good team around him. Right now pretty much everyone needs the ball in there hand to be successful on this team. Makes it easy to defend

[bleedXblue]

I think there is some responsibility all the way around. This team was picked by most to finish 3rd in the league this year from what I recall. We were just outside of the Top 25 Polls to start the year. Moved up quickly and haven't scared them in two months. Steele has enough talent to be better than 17-10.

The offense has been and will continue to be fugly. Thank God for Tyrique and his incredible play or we would be really screwed.

Every program loses players and misses on recruits. Xavier has had their fair share for sure. Add a coaching change. Steele is clearly not ready to perform at a high level yet. Recruiting looks promising. In game coaching/adjustments and installing an offensive system that gets guys the ball in the right spots is not there yet. How long will it take and how much patience does Xavier have? I'd like to see what things look like in January 2021.......

[xavierj]

A point guard who just scored his 1,000th point, but has been Coached down.

That’s hilarious. Man I love your passion, but I am worried. At what point did Q ever show more than what he is? He can’t score and is not a threat to make three’s consistently. If you could go back in time, you probably tell Chris Mack to lock up Zavier Simpson. You seem to have it out for Travis, and that’s fine. Just don’t come back pulling the told you BS when he gets them rolling. He knows more about the game of basketball than any us. If you were better, you wouldn’t be telling us. These guys make big money to know what’s going on. But keep hammering.

[Masterofreality]

There's nothing to believe or not believe.

It's not blaming the players to say their skill sets (in combination) do not lend themselves to playing the offensive system you want to see. It's not an excuse for the coaches - go ahead and blame them 100% for roster construction - it's just reality.

No coach in their right mind would build the roster Xavier has right now, but unfortunately there's no free agency or trade market in college basketball so it takes time to turn the roster over. The class of 2018 and the complementary pieces of the class of 2017 are complete zeroes across the board. That takes its toll. That's before we even get into the complicated merits of the class of 2016.

Let's make it even simpler than roster construction vs. coaching. Do you think this is what Travis Steele wants the offense to look like? I certainly do not. But apparently you do.

Travis Steele has blown out 2 shooters- Elias Harden who, when he got a court sniff like against Auburn and Villanova last year, performed well. Construction minus 1.
Dahmir Bishop was a 4 star shooter and actively recruited by Steele. He blew him out too. Construction minus 2.
Why did they leave? No playing time. Why??
Maybe because this staff had no clue on how to use them thru a better system. Just like they continue to play ineffective Jason Carter 28 minutes a game. 3 points 2 rebounds. Bunny misser. In game construction Minus 3.
It’s the whole package of trash with this staff .

Finally. This offense that Steele is running is the same as last year, which sucked too, and with arguably better shooters than this year. Welage > Carter. Hardin was arguably better than Castlin. Last years system= this year’s system. Both simplistic. Both easily defensed. Both not using the best attributes. Both causing tons of turnovers. It’s the only offense he apparently knows. That is a problem.

[Masterofreality]

That’s hilarious. Man I love your passion, but I am worried. At what point did Q ever show more than what he is?

Amazing how hilarious you are not remembering 2018? Remember how everyone was thanking their stars that Q would be a 4 year guy and we didn’t take Kobi Simmons as a one year guy. Q has been coached down since Steele’s staff took over.

[AviatorX]

Travis Steele has blown out 2 shooters- Elias Harden who, when he got a court sniff like against Auburn and Villanova last year, performed well. Construction minus 1.
Dahmir Bishop was a 4 star shooter and actively recruited by Steele. He blew him out too. Construction minus 2.
Why did they leave? No playing time. Why??
Maybe because this staff had no clue on how to use them thru a better system. Just like they continue to play ineffective Jason Carter 28 minutes a game. 3 points 2 rebounds. Bunny misser. In game construction Minus 3.
It’s the whole package of trash with this staff .

Finally. This offense that Steele is running is the same as last year, which sucked too, and with arguably better shooters than this year. Welage > Carter. Hardin was arguably better than Castlin. Last years system= this year’s system. Both simplistic. Both easily defensed. Both not using the best attributes. Both causing tons of turnovers. It’s the only offense he apparently knows. That is a problem.

Honestly, do you care that you repeatedly just say things that are undercut by actual facts?

Elias Harden totally transferred because he was misused by Steele. You should probably shoot a note to Ray Harper with whatever magic elixir you have to turn Harden into a productive high-major player, because he's currently ripping the nets at 29% from distance and 37% from two at Jacksonville State, a below .500 OVC squad. His ORTG is a sizzling 89, which is lower than Jason Carter.

Bishop transferred 14 games into his career to be closer to home. Are you really going to put that on Steele? Did you ride Mack for "blowing out" Jared Ridder? Also, who knows what Bishop will do at St. Joes, but he was flat out awful in his limited time at Xavier. If he was getting minutes now putting up those numbers, you'd be ripping Steele for that.

As for the "only offense Steele knows", it would be cool if you could let us in on some of your keen observations on the differences between the system Mack ran and the one Steele runs. Inquiring minds want to know. What are the team's best attributes that aren't being used?

It's beyond me how several posters on here seem to think Steele is a moron. That's basically the argument you're making when you write things along the lines of "the offense needs more motion" and "this team doesn't know how to use screens." Do you really think Travis hasn't considered stuff like that? This is high major D1 basketball, not rec league - we don't need to go through some process of elimination to determine what offensive systems will and won't work with a particular group. The coaching staff gets the benefit of the doubt of that assessment, in my (and anyone who is reasonable's) opinion.

[scoscox]

travis steele ran off shooters? bishop shot 15%. who are these supposed shooters?

[JEHARDI]

Travis Steele has blown out 2 shooters- Elias Harden who, when he got a court sniff like against Auburn and Villanova last year, performed well. Construction minus 1.
Dahmir Bishop was a 4 star shooter and actively recruited by Steele. He blew him out too. Construction minus 2.
Why did they leave? No playing time. Why??
Maybe because this staff had no clue on how to use them thru a better system. Just like they continue to play ineffective Jason Carter 28 minutes a game. 3 points 2 rebounds. Bunny misser. In game construction Minus 3.
It’s the whole package of trash with this staff .

Finally. This offense that Steele is running is the same as last year, which sucked too, and with arguably better shooters than this year. Welage > Carter. Hardin was arguably better than Castlin. Last years system= this year’s system. Both simplistic. Both easily defensed. Both not using the best attributes. Both causing tons of turnovers. It’s the only offense he apparently knows. That is a problem.

Harden had an ugly, inconsistent shot and as mentioned, it has not improved against lesser competition. Bishop looked soft and timid, would have liked to see him stay but he got the minutes his play warranted at the time. Was in a position to earn more time but decided to move on. You are slipping MOR.
Personnel or lack thereof is the issue that needs to be addressed. I am confident the offense and Steele will be fine once he has a PG and some shooters.

[xavierj]

Amazing how hilarious you are not remembering 2018? Remember how everyone was thanking their stars that Q would be a 4 year guy and we didn’t take Kobi Simmons as a one year guy. Q has been coached down since Steele’s staff took over.

We get it you hate Steele. Uncle. Enjoy.

[JEHARDI]

One other thought, the Goodin regression coincided with loss of any outside threat. His game got exposed and he has not adjusted or recovered from the loss of Tre, JP and even Gates, who helped spread the floor and opened up driving lanes and created opportunities and open looks for everyone else.

[JEHARDI]

Mack got punked by Hamilton again, maybe MOR can pass along some of his coaching expertise to help a fellow alum!

[bjf123]

One other thought, the Goodin regression coincided with loss of any outside threat. His game got exposed and he has not adjusted or recovered from the loss of Tre, JP and even Gates, who helped spread the floor and opened up driving lanes and created opportunities and open look for everyone else.

Agreed. The lack of any consistent outside threat has had a big impact on Q. It’s had a impact of Naji, too. Both find the lane more clogged which reduces their success with drives to the hoop compared to when JP and Tre were there. This makes what Tyrique has been doing that much more impressive since he has more bodies on him now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AviatorX]

We get it you hate Steele. Uncle. Enjoy.

Who among us could forget when Xavier told Kobi Simmons he couldn't come here. Lol.

[xavierj]

Who among us could forget when Xavier told Kobi Simmons he couldn't come here. Lol.

Yeah I missed that too.

[XU 87]

travis steele ran off shooters? bishop shot 15%. who are these supposed shooters?

Keonte Kennedy? Leo Murray? Griffin McKenzie?

And I’ll never forgive Travis for running off Obi Harris.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah I missed that too.

Kobi Simmons wanted to come to Xavier to join his good buddy Kaiser Gates. They are still close friends.
That is fact. Mack passed on it and X took Q, who did a nice job early and still averaged 11.0 ppg last year. He is a Xavier 1,000 point scorer.
What kind of part of facts do you not understand?

[xavierj]

Kobi Simmons wanted to come to Xavier to join his good buddy Kaiser Gates. They are still close friends.
That is fact. Mack passed on it and X took Q, who did a nice job early and still averaged 11.0 ppg last year. He is a Xavier 1,000 point scorer.
What kind of part of facts do you not understand?

I think you are confused. Kobi picked Arizona. Xavier took Q over Zavier Simpson.

[Masterofreality]

Mack got punked by Hamilton again, maybe MOR can pass along some of his coaching expertise to help a fellow alum!

Exactly WTF does this mean?
Louisville lost? Yay?

[Masterofreality]

I think you are confused. Kobi picked Arizona. Xavier took Q over Zavier Simpson.

Kobi picked Arizona after it was clear that Mack didn’t want a one and done. Despite Kaiser lobbying for Kobi.
No confusion brother.

[AviatorX]

I think you are confused. Kobi picked Arizona. Xavier took Q over Zavier Simpson.

To MOR’s credit, Xavier was in deep with Kobi Simmons as well, but the backcourt obviously got a bit crowded with Q in the fold.

That said, it is not a fact at all that Mack told him thanks but no thanks. If Kobi wanted to come to X there would have been a spot for him at the end of the day.

Goodin committed several months before Simmons. Mack took the bird in the hand. That’s just called recruiting.

[XU 87]

Kobi Simmons wanted to come to Xavier to join his good buddy Kaiser Gates. They are still close friends.
That is fact.?

That’s not exactly true. X was recruiting him and I think had a shot because of his friendship with Gates, but it wasn’t like he wanted to commit but X turned him down.

Aviator’s post above is accurate. So is Xavierj’s, although Simpson tried to commit, but when Goodin was on his recruiting trip here. Mack wouldn’t accept a commitment made during another’s recruiting trip. I think Goodin then committed during his visit.

[xavierj]

Kobi picked Arizona after it was clear that Mack didn’t want a one and done. Despite Kaiser lobbying for Kobi.
No confusion brother.

Kobi picked Arizona in January of 2016. Xavier was believed to be the leader for Zavier Simpson (who at the time was Xavier Simpson), Quentin came in for a visit late in August of 2015, Xavier pressed for a commitment and he pulled the trigger. Two weeks later Simpson picked Michigan. Unless you have information otherwise, Xavier would still have taken Kobi. I doubt Kobi was scared off by Quentin.

[Masterofreality]

We get it you hate Steele. Uncle. Enjoy.

I hate going to NIT’s with 4 4 star players on the roster and a Core of 4 veterans. I hate scoring less than 70 points consistently with offensively talented players.
I hate underperformance. That’s what I hate. Sometimes coaches, and employees in general, are overmatched at the level they are placed- like John Beilein with the Cavs.
This is not personal. This is business.
Don’t be so ludicrous.

[Masterofreality]

Kobi picked Arizona in January of 2016. Xavier was believed to be the leader for Zavier Simpson (who at the time was Xavier Simpson), Quentin came in for a visit late in August of 2015, Xavier pressed for a commitment and he pulled the trigger. Two weeks later Simpson picked Michigan. Unless you have information otherwise, Xavier would still have taken Kobi. I doubt Kobi was scared off by Quentin.

Kobi wasn’t “scared off by Quentin”. Mack didn’t want a one and done and he wasn’t taking multiple point guards. None of this has anything to do with the job Steele isn’t doing.

[xavierj]

I hate going to NIT’s with 4 4 star players on the roster and a Core of 4 veterans. I hate scoring less than 70 points consistently with offensively talented players.
I hate underperformance. That’s what I hate. Sometimes coaches, and employees in general, are overmatched at the level they are placed- like John Beilein with the Cavs.
This is not personal. This is business.
Don’t be so ludicrous.

Yeah one year Chris Mack had 5 star Semaj Christon, 4 star Justin Martin, 4 star Dee Davis, 4 star Jeff Robinson and missed everything going 17-14 in the A10. The next year with the same guys and added 4 star Jalen Reynolds, Myles Davis and Matt Stainbrook after they sat out, and they landed the first 4 getting embarrassed by NC State. The year after that they lost Semaj, but added Trevon and JP and lost 14 games and went 9-9 in the Big East. I guess we should have called it a night with Chris at that point.

[Masterofreality]

Yeah one year Chris Mack had 5 star Semaj Christon, 4 star Justin Martin, 4 star Dee Davis, 4 star Jeff Robinson and missed everything going 17-14 in the A10. The next year with the same guys and added 4 star Jalen Reynolds, Myles Davis and Matt Stainbrook after they sat out, and they landed the first 4 getting embarrassed by NC State. The year after that they lost Semaj, but added Trevon and JP and lost 14 games and went 9-9 in the Big East. I guess we should have called it a night with Chris at that point.

Did you say that? Cause I didn’t.

[xavierj]

Did you say that? Cause I didn’t.

No I didn’t because I don’t think changing coaches every few years is a good thing. I think it’s what has actually caused Xavier not taking the next step. So do I think Travis is doing awesome right now, heck no. But I believe he knows what he is doing and I actually think he has the right mind set and plan to build the team Xavier needs. I don’t think his ego will hurt his plan and think he will actually build a really good team that can eventually be a team to get us all to where we all want this program. It will take some time, but I think we will all enjoy it when it does happen. If not we are up a creek as a program. Chris got a little lucky, I don’t want to rely on luck.

[nuts4xu]

A point guard who just scored his 1,000th point, but has been Coached down.

I don't agree with this at all. Q is the same guy he has been, but he isn't making shots, his passes aren't to anyone who can shoot, and he appears to have lost a step. After 3 years in the program, Q isn't being held back by coaching, lack of screens, or because the offense isn't conducive to his skill set.

Q has regressed and his 1000 point total is fools gold. I see him pressing, trying to do too much, and making terrible decisions. He is a shell of his former self, and I don't think all the blame is on Steele. Q has shown flashes this season, but those have been few and far between.

If he played close to the level of his sophomore year, we would be a much better team. I've never seen a player shoot FT's at a 79% one season, but closer to 60% every other season in his career. His career arc defies logic, and while you can make a case his decline began when Steele took over, there are a variety of other factors that likely contributed to his downturn. It isn't as simple as "being coached down".

[JEHARDI]

Did you say that? Cause I didn’t.

The offensive talent on those teams was superior to what Steele is working with. This Should not be that tough to comprehend if you do not have a personal dislike for Steele. A team is pretty easy to guard when there is no consistent outside threat. The game today is built on players that can spread the floor, drive and shoot. When shots are falling, we become tough to guard,unfortunately, more often that not they are not falling and the talent level of the teams we are playing is close enough or better than ours that we are not going to win.

[xavierj]

I don't agree with this at all. Q is the same guy he has been, but he isn't making shots, his passes aren't to anyone who can shoot, and he appears to have lost a step. After 3 years in the program, Q isn't being held back by coaching, lack of screens, or because the offense isn't conducive to his skill set.

Q has regressed and his 1000 point total is fools gold. I see him pressing, trying to do too much, and making terrible decisions. He is a shell of his former self, and I don't think all the blame is on Steele. Q has shown flashes this season, but those have been few and far between.

If he played close to the level of his sophomore year, we would be a much better team. I've never seen a player shoot FT's at a 79% one season, but closer to 60% every other season in his career. His career arc defies logic, and while you can make a case his decline began when Steele took over, there are a variety of other factors that likely contributed to his downturn. It isn't as simple as "being coached down".

Preach Nuts!

[Mrs. Garrett]

Steele is pretty stubborn. He just refuses to accept Jason Carter is a liability. It's like playing 5 on 4 on the offensive end because the kid is so scared. There are times when he is standing wide open and the other guys just do not want to pass him the ball. He was really bad defensively against Nova too; got back doored multiple times.

I don't know what James does or doesn't do in practice, but he's shown flashes on the floor. At the very least he is aggressive and seems to have some confidence.

Maybe Steele is a great coach because he has this group of kids on the cusp of the Dance. Or maybe he is a bad coach willing to ride Jason Carter into the
NIT again.

[AviatorX]

Steele is pretty stubborn. He just refuses to accept Jason Carter is a liability. It's like playing 5 on 4 on the offensive end because the kid is so scared. There are times when he is standing wide open and the other guys just do not want to pass him the ball. He was really bad defensively against Nova too; got back doored multiple times.

I don't know what James does or doesn't do in practice, but he's shown flashes on the floor. At the very least he is aggressive and seems to have some confidence.

Maybe Steele is a great coach because he has this group of kids on the cusp of the Dance. Or maybe he is a bad coach willing to ride Jason Carter into the
NIT again.

I really don't get this. I recognize the fan base has elected Carter as the outlet for their frustration, but Steele certainly isn't riding him anywhere. Carter uses less possessions than Naji, Tyrique, Scruggs, Goodin, Freemantle and Tandy. He is essentially the 7th offensive option in a 7.5 man rotation. Setting aside the fact that there is literally nothing to indicate James is a better option in that role, Carter is wayyyyyyyyyyy down the list of this team's offensive issues.

Obviously, Carter has been disappointing. I'm sure he would tell you that. But again, it's not like Steele has Derrick Brown rotting away on the bench. With Freemantle and Tandy at this point basically getting 25-30 minutes a game, there's not really much room to complain about Carter's PT.

[jhelmes37]

I don't agree with this at all. Q is the same guy he has been, but he isn't making shots, his passes aren't to anyone who can shoot, and he appears to have lost a step. After 3 years in the program, Q isn't being held back by coaching, lack of screens, or because the offense isn't conducive to his skill set.

Q has regressed and his 1000 point total is fools gold. I see him pressing, trying to do too much, and making terrible decisions. He is a shell of his former self, and I don't think all the blame is on Steele. Q has shown flashes this season, but those have been few and far between.

If he played close to the level of his sophomore year, we would be a much better team. I've never seen a player shoot FT's at a 79% one season, but closer to 60% every other season in his career. His career arc defies logic, and while you can make a case his decline began when Steele took over, there are a variety of other factors that likely contributed to his downturn. It isn't as simple as "being coached down".

I don't believe the "coached down" angle.

Quentin had a child last year. Which, "coincidentally" was when the downward slide began.

Maybe, just maybe he's kinda done with this stage of his life. But he didn't want to just bail after his junior year; instead, he wanted to finish the job.

There's a lot of parents on this board. Imagine trying to balance school, high D1 level basketball... and having a newborn.

Not exactly a recipe for being an All Big-East PG...

Maybe I'm too empathetic, but thus is life sometimes.