Coach Steele

[paulxu]

I'm not ready to get on the fire Travis bus.
Miller in his second year went 9-9 in the A10 and finished in a tie for 7th.
Maybe I'll regret it, but I'm not ready to give up on him.

[bjf123]

I'm not ready to get on the fire Travis bus.
Miller in his second year went 9-9 in the A10 and finished in a tie for 7th.
Maybe I'll regret it, but I'm not ready to give up on him.

At this point, I’d be thrilled if we could finish 9-9 in the BE this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[waggy]

They don't play pissed.

They came out motivated against TCU. That was right after the first NET rankings came out. If they hadn't turned it over 20+ times they would've beat them by close to 40. This team has a lot more under the hood than it is showing right now.

[X Factor]

This team has a lot more under the hood than it is showing right now.

But first they have to fix the oil leak, the exhaust manifold leak, and the flat tire.

[XU_Lou]

Tweet from Tu Holloway: https://twitter.com/SFFiveTu/status/1217919894240579585

"A University’s prestige or track record of success spoils fans.. Rightfully so.. A year or 2 of underachieving with a great coach and mediocre talent.. Heart to mind.."

Hmmm, I wonder who he's talking about....

[GoMuskies]

Tweet from Tu Holloway: https://twitter.com/SFFiveTu/status/1217919894240579585

"A University’s prestige or track record of success spoils fans.. Rightfully so.. A year or 2 of underachieving with a great coach and mediocre talent.. Heart to mind.."

Hmmm, I wonder who he's talking about....

Well, he followed it up with something about Miami and USC football.

[XU_Lou]

Well, he followed it up with something about Miami and USC football.

Wrong! I'll give you a second guess...

[GoMuskies]

Wrong! I'll give you a second guess...

Well, the other tweet also mentioned Syracuse and UConn basketball.

[xavierj]

Wrong! I'll give you a second guess...

I am still confused. Says great coach and mediocre talent. So if it’s Xavier he believes the talent is mediocre and you can’t win in the Big East with mediocre talent. So they talent is mostly on Mack who had the say on all recruits and he has a big ego, so basically Xavier took who Mack wanted. I like the classes Travis is being bringing in and expect big things in a couple of years. He isn’t the first coach to struggle early, just look at Mike krzyzewskI, he was awful his first 3 years at Duke. Got worse every year until year 4 and the rest is history. Duke went from winning 73 games the prior three years and then he won 38 his first three years with two seasons well below .500.

[bleedXblue]

I'll be the first one to say that I cant understand WTF Tu says in half of his Twitter comments.........

Unrelated to that. I'm extremely concerned with this coach and staff. Getting murdered on the glass? If I had to guess, we may have a situation where the team is being OVER coached. Trying to "correct" so many things that you end up being not focused enough on the 1-2 things that you MUST do well. Just a hunch.

[Final4]

I just don't understand how/why Tyrique is not the one to step up and say "this is my last go around and I ain't going out this way.........everybody knock the shit off, check your egos at the door and get in line behind me".

[Chermy23]

So, let's say X does fire Steele.

A plan needs to be in place for his successor. For all those that want him gone, I'm curious as to who you have in mind to replace him?

[Xavier]

I just don't understand how/why Tyrique is not the one to step up and say "this is my last go around and I ain't going out this way.........everybody knock the shit off, check your egos at the door and get in line behind me".

Probably because he has one of the biggest egos on the team?

[Xavier]

So, let's say X does fire Steele.

A plan needs to be in place for his successor. For all those that want him gone, I'm curious as to who you have in mind to replace him?

Sean Miller



*Just want to see the reaction this gets.

[GoMuskies]

So, let's say X does fire Steele.

A plan needs to be in place for his successor. For all those that want him gone, I'm curious as to who you have in mind to replace him?

I don't think anyone REALLY (and realistically) wants him gone at this point. But if he WERE fired, there would be qualified candidates lining up around the block for the job. 99% of the top assistants in the country would be in play, as would virtually ever successful mid or low major head coach.

We need to get Odom, Wilcher and Jones on campus, though. We need fresh talent more than anything.

[drudy23]

He's not getting fired.

[xu82]

i don't think anyone really (and realistically) wants him gone at this point. But if he were fired, there would be qualified candidates lining up around the block for the job. 99% of the top assistants in the country would be in play, as would virtually ever successful mid or low major head coach.

we need to get odom, wilcher and jones on campus, though. We need fresh talent more than anything.

this

[Mrs. Garrett]

He's not getting fired.

This year

[xavierj]

This year

Or next or the year after. Who do you all think Xavier is? Xavier isn’t going to fire coaches who have winning records. I am willing to bet when Travis goes it will be him leaving for something else and not getting fired by Xavier.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier isn’t going to fire coaches who have winning records.

Xavier's standards are going to be a lot higher than that. I'm not sure who YOU think Xavier is. Having a winning record is an absurdly low bar for a major program that plays so many buy games in the non-conference. Now, if you said Xavier wasn't going to fire coaches with winning Big East records, I could get generally get on board with that.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I just don't understand how/why Tyrique is not the one to step up and say "this is my last go around and I ain't going out this way.........everybody knock the shit off, check your egos at the door and get in line behind me".
Let me be clear, this isn't the 2007-2008 team.

But.

Anyone on that team will tell you the secret sauce that year was two-fold: Josh Duncan, senior, being willing to come off the bench, and, CJ Anderson RUNNING that locker-room and accepting nothing but everyone's best.

Hmm.

[drudy23]

This year - warm seat, but no way he gets fired. It's good for him to be on edge a little bit.
Next year - if more of the same, hot seat - likely wouldn't get fired
Year after - if program falls to new lows - fired

He needs some leeway, but you also can't wait forever because it's real bad if you wait too long. The scenario above has a low percentage chance of happening.

[XUGRAD80]

It’s said that adversity doesn’t create character...it REVEALS it.

Based on that statement, I’d hate to be working for some of the people here. Travis has given 15 years of service to this University and the 1st bit of real adversity that some of you have ever seen for the program, and some of you want to just throw him aside and find someone new. I have no idea what the relationship between Travis and his superiors at the university is, or between Travis and the players, but I am willing to bet that nobody is going to quit on themselves or others at this point. I’m not a betting man, but if I was I’d be willing to bet that firing Travis is just about the furthest thing from the mind of anyone actually connected with the University and the BB program. Maybe he hasn’t reached the level that some of you seem to be demanding, but he also hasn’t done anything over the last year and a half to deserve firing. I’m willing to bet that the majority of people calling for his firing have never done any hiring/firing/ business building and management in lives. Take it from someone that has, personal are the KEY element in any business. Getting then right people and keeping them will make or break any business. Travis is for intents and purposes a Division President of the athletic department, and in this case it’s the most important division of the company. While it’s not unheard of for a division leader to be replaced because of poor performance, unless the people making that decision either don’t think that the person can get results to the level they want, has violated some company policy that demands firing, or has lost the respect of his supervisors, peers, and subordinates MOST companies will move slowly here. For one thing, there are legal considerations. There are also public perception considerations. In addition, what the short term and long term results of the actions taken will be must be considered. A program like Xavier, which deals with multiple millions of dollars in assets and revenue, must not make knee-jerk decisions based on emotion. Doing so is a recipe for failure, not success. Xavier has a history of letting their new coaches find their way and build their own programs. That history has been a very successful one. I don’t think there will be any change to any of that.

[xcellentx]

This year - warm seat, but no way he gets fired. It's good for him to be on edge a little bit.
Next year - if more of the same, hot seat - likely wouldn't get fired
Year after - if program falls to new lows - fired

He needs some leeway, but you also can't wait forever because it's real bad if you wait too long. The scenario above has a low percentage chance of happening.

Steele will get 4 years barring some major off the court issues. If Steele was really fired after or during this year, how many other coaches are jumping at the chance to come here to a school that wouldn't even give a coach that spent 10+ years here 2 recruiting classes.

I also don't think it can be overstated how much injuries and Mack's last recruiting class hurt this team. We had our 2 lowest recruits in over 15 years. James has shown that maybe he can contribute but definitely isn't a 20+ min player at this point. Can you imagine if Tandy (or Tandy type) was a sophomore with some experience last year? Or if either James or Kennedy would have been top 150 type recruits?

Then we come into this year with Tandy and Ramsey injured to start the year. Giving Kyky a full offseason and early game experience would have been invaluable. I don't know what Ramsey would have provided, but it isn't hard to imagine that he could have spelled Carter and been another option at the 4.

It will be hard to judge next year with so many unknowns, but assuming another good recruiting class for the 21-22 season, it will definitely be getting warm if we fall flat.

[IM4X]

Probably because he has one of the biggest egos on the team?

I don’t believe he has a big ego. He likes to put a show on a bit during games, but I think that is different from him having a big ego. I actually find him to be rather humble when talking about himself. I love his smile and his positivity.

I do agree though with final4 that since he Jones is a senior (and this is his final season) he needs to be the one who is calling everyone out including himself (think Farr and Bernard during the seasons that their team was struggling during the regular season) and get the team to buy into playing harder and smarter.

The one difference I see is that those teams were mostly lacking effort and tenacity, whereas this team is lacking tenacity + so much more.

Some of these guys can’t make layups. Some would rather launch threes then drive and the coaching is not doing enough to address these issues. Steele still doesn’t seem
to understand the importance of finding a way to get Scruggs the most looks from three.players are out of position. Players still look like they are not sure what they are supposed to do on offense. Drawing fouls early and often in games is part of a winning recipe that this team and coach staff needs to buy into and stick with. The started doing that in the last game and it was pretty effective, Then X abandoned it when Marquette decided to leave X players alone from 3. Q and others fell for it and everything quickly went down hill.

[XU_Lou]

It’s said that adversity doesn’t create character...it REVEALS it.

Based on that statement, I’d hate to be working for some of the people here. Travis has given 15 years of service to this University and the 1st bit of real adversity that some of you have ever seen for the program, and some of you want to just throw him aside and find someone new. I have no idea what the relationship between Travis and his superiors at the university is, or between Travis and the players, but I am willing to bet that nobody is going to quit on themselves or others at this point. I’m not a betting man, but if I was I’d be willing to bet that firing Travis is just about the furthest thing from the mind of anyone actually connected with the University and the BB program. Maybe he hasn’t reached the level that some of you seem to be demanding, but he also hasn’t done anything over the last year and a half to deserve firing. I’m willing to bet that the majority of people calling for his firing have never done any hiring/firing/ business building and management in lives. Take it from someone that has, personal are the KEY element in any business. Getting then right people and keeping them will make or break any business. Travis is for intents and purposes a Division President of the athletic department, and in this case it’s the most important division of the company. While it’s not unheard of for a division leader to be replaced because of poor performance, unless the people making that decision either don’t think that the person can get results to the level they want, has violated some company policy that demands firing, or has lost the respect of his supervisors, peers, and subordinates MOST companies will move slowly here. For one thing, there are legal considerations. There are also public perception considerations. In addition, what the short term and long term results of the actions taken will be must be considered. A program like Xavier, which deals with multiple millions of dollars in assets and revenue, must not make knee-jerk decisions based on emotion. Doing so is a recipe for failure, not success. Xavier has a history of letting their new coaches find their way and build their own programs. That history has been a very successful one. I don’t think there will be any change to any of that.

Great post!

This entire thread is a complete disgrace, and is not a good reflection on the Xavier community or its fan base. What do you think outsiders think when they see this? Do you think this provides a source of confidence to our 2020 commits (Odom, Wilcher and Jones)? What about future prospects - and their parents - who come over here and read through this crap!

Do you think this thread endears Travis to the Xavier fan base? What about similar threads from the past? Is there any possibility at all that they could've contributed to past coaches leaving early because they didn't feel appreciated?

For God's sake, the people on this board act like a bunch of spoiled brats - just as Tu Holloway referred to in his Tweet yesterday. Have some freaking perspective on the situation! Steele inherited a fairly crappy hand, and I believe he's making the most of it. He's doing the right things to get this ship on course again for the long term. We simply don't have a preponderance of good shooters, and there aren't a lot of good options to alleviate the situation right now (look at the stats published on Banners on the Parkway recently). I think he knew that coming into the season, thus his focus on defense this year. It was the logical thing to do!! Unfortunately the shooting has gotten so bad that it seems to be impacting the defense. However, bashing guys personally on this board, or on Twitter, or booing them at the Cintas is a total and complete disgrace!!

I hate to break it you all, but we could see another up and down year like this next year. We will be very young and inexperienced, so get your expectations in check. If the 2019 and 2020 classes hold together, I believe we could see our best teams ever in 2022 and 2023.

[GoMuskies]

What do you think outsiders think when they see this?

Blech, the sanctimonious crowd descends. #1, they don't see it. No one outside of Xavier cares.

#2, if they did see it, they'd probably think it's pretty tame. If some of you think this board and the Xavier fanbase in general is harsh, well congrats on remaining in your bubble and not being exposed to the world of the truly harsh, demanding fanbases.

[xavierj]

This year - warm seat, but no way he gets fired. It's good for him to be on edge a little bit.
Next year - if more of the same, hot seat - likely wouldn't get fired
Year after - if program falls to new lows - fired

He needs some leeway, but you also can't wait forever because it's real bad if you wait too long. The scenario above has a low percentage chance of happening.

Can you imagine if Duke did that? There would be no coach K.

[GoMuskies]

Can you imagine if Duke did that? There would be no coach K.

If Travis Steele reels in the #1 recruiting class in the country before he actually starts winning, we'll probably cut him some slack.

[xavierj]

If Travis Steele reels in the #1 recruiting class in the country before he actually starts winning, we'll probably cut him some slack.

Xavier isn’t Duke but they do have the 15th rated class coming in. Duke has been to 4 final 4’s before he got there, one two seasons before he took over.

[drudy23]

Can you imagine if Duke did that? There would be no coach K.

Pretty sure Coach K has earned lifetime contract status at this point.

[Masterofreality]

Let me be clear, this isn't the 2007-2008 team.

But.

Anyone on that team will tell you the secret sauce that year was two-fold: Josh Duncan, senior, being willing to come off the bench, and, CJ Anderson RUNNING that locker-room and accepting nothing but everyone's best.

Hmm.

CJ and Stanley Burrell. That team had LEADERS!

[XU_Lou]

Blech, the sanctimonious crowd descends. #1, they don't see it. No one outside of Xavier cares.

#2, if they did see it, they'd probably think it's pretty tame. If some of you think this board and the Xavier fanbase in general is harsh, well congrats on remaining in your bubble and not being exposed to the world of the truly harsh, demanding fanbases.

So I'm confused. You profess to be an expert on what goes on with other team boards, and yet you emphatically state at the same time that no one outside of X cares about our board - including prospective recruits and parents.

[xavierj]

Pretty sure Coach K has earned lifetime contract status at this point.

Absolutely he has. Did you see his first three years at Duke? Won 17 then 11 and then 10 games. Can you imagine if a Xavier coach did that? Yikes.

[Masterofreality]

Steele will get 4 years barring some major off the court issues. If Steele was really fired after or during this year, how many other coaches are jumping at the chance to come here to a school that wouldn't even give a coach that spent 10+ years here 2 recruiting classes.


I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.

[XU_Lou]

I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.

Stupid...

[Masterofreality]

Stupid...

Why? It's all true.

[xudash]

Isolate on and contribute your opinions to one very specific question:

Given that Travis was able to turnaround the team in his first year - and it was a "patch quilt" team at that - WHY are we going through this now?

- - - - - - - -

He certainly proved he could COACH at some effective level given what was almost pulled out last season.

Is it simply about this cast of characters among the "returning 4"?

It seems that lack of success with the 3-ball is cascading other aspects of the game over the waterfall. It clearly appears that Q has not personally adjusted his play for sake of the team, whether he's been clearly told to do so or not. Naji's tendencies towards here ball at the worst possible moments are painful at best to watch.

Personally, I can't see it being anything other than COME TO JESUS TIME in the locker room. Something sparked a wake-up call last year. We need that or another something to spark one now.

[GoMuskies]

So I'm confused. You profess to be an expert on what goes on with other team boards, and yet you emphatically state at the same time that no one outside of X cares about our board - including prospective recruits and parents.

Yes, I'm an expert. Dr. Message Board at your service.

[XUBison]

Stupid...

aren’t you the guy who said that our previous coaches left X for jobs at Ohio State, Arizona, and Louisville... because of things that some random anonymous people might have said on a message board? Talk about stupid. I hereby banish you back where you belong... back you devil, back... back you go to MusketeerMadness.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I see truth in both comments of XUGRAD80 and GoMuskies. First of all, XUGRAD80 (without ever having to resort, even once, to paragraph spacing) made a solid case for the university and all of us who are fans of this team, to extend Steele the same loyalty and professionalism he has displayed to us. Steele started low in this university's basketball organization and rose to lead it through hard work and dedication---qualities other coaches haven't always displayed. It doesn't feel good to read that we're going to give him a couple of years and then, if results aren't where they should be, he gets the hook. Let's give the man a little space to right the ship. And, let's realize that we are lucky to have him. You want a sleezebag like Bruce Pearl? Or maybe a Jerry Tarkanian or perhaps a basketball version of Bobby Petrino? None of the posters on this board want that, I'm pretty certain.

Be that as it may, GoMuskies, I think, also has it correct. This message board is pretty tame when compared to similar boards of other schools. This thread is poorly titled as its originator previously admitted. The vast majority of the posts contained herein addressed valid (in my opinion) criticisms of our team's play and coaching without complete attribution to Coach Steele. And, many of the posts here, even those critical of specific players and coaches, are thoughtful and detailed. So, i give this board a pretty high grade and a high grade to the posters---even to the ones who ignore grammatical concepts like paragraphs.

I argue that this board and similar vehicles which allow fans to comment (positively or negatively) are healthy and are a net benefit to the team. Its true, things can get out of hand. I recall some racially tinged comments on the UGA football board, directed toward Justin Fields after the 2018 UGA-Alabama game. But, I don't recall ever seeing anything, on this board, that comes close to that. Many of the posters on this board joined it years ago and are long time, dedicated followers of X basketball. Many are alumni. This board allows them to converse electronically about something that is important to them. And, in so doing, it helps them to remain connected to this team and this university. I can't imagine GoMuskie has many opportunities to discuss this team with his friends out in Wichita. So, exactly where did you go to college? Eggzavyour you said? Where on earth is Eggzavyour?

And, while you might be offended at the timetable put forth by DRUDY23 in regard to Coach Steele's future employment, I don't believe that he's far off the mark given some circumstances. Men's basketball at XU is the tip of the spear, so to speak. I am told this team's success (or lack thereof) directly affects both enrollments and financial contributions every single year. I understand if you don't think a sports program should be that critical to an institution. But, my sources tell me, at X, it is. Think about it for, oh say, five seconds. Why, on earth, do you think a basketball coach is paid well into seven figures while a tenured economics professor or even the head of the College of Nursing makes far, far less? We all know the answer. It is because the basketball program, like it or not, has an outsize influence on everything at Xavier. That being the case, you can expect the pressure to perform is very high on our coach. It comes with the job. It just is.

For me and I think many others on this board, it would be wonderful if Travis Steele becomes our Mark Few. Others have noted just how important coaching stability is to building a great program. We are suffering today because Chris Mack left for Louisville. As frustrating as the play of this year's team has been, I have to believe this year (and last) are a baptism under fire that, in future years will benefit Steele and this basketball program. But, yes, if you are a true and loyal fan, it has been painful to watch. Very painful.

[xcellentx]

I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.

That is an interesting case. I'd be curious who you think we would bring in.

I agree that you want to preserve the "Brand" but I don't think we are at that point yet. Occasionally missing the tournament 1-2 years is a common occurrence for just about every program. We had a good recruiting class this year and a good one next year, so there is young talent in the program.

If Christopher is looking at this in the same way and think he has options, then do what you need to do. I just think it is too early to give up on Steele.

[XUGRAD80]

I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.

Is that the “Butler Way”?

[AviatorX]

I just want to point out that Butler and Brandon Miller parted company after 1 year because of allegedly a "medical leave of absence" after going 14-17. Miller was a "Butler guy and was the guy who Brad Stevens pimped for the job. Before the "Leave of Absence" happened, Butler was able to convince Chris Holtmann to leave Gardner Webb after he had it rolling there and had just been granted a contract extension. At the time Holtmann left Gardner Webb, he was hired to be an ASSISTANT (allegedly). When that happened, almost everybody in College Basketball was scratching their heads as to WTF??? Well, it became evident soon. But not long after that, Miller was cashiered and his "Medical Condition" was, and still hasn't been disclosed. Now nobody cares.
Bottom Line, despite Brandon Miller being called "one of the best and brightest minds" , "exemplifying the Butler Way" and "Butler is well positioned to expand upon the success of the last few years" by Barry Collier, they had no hesitation to cut him loose (albeit in a pretty creative and face saving way) as soon as it became evident that Miller was overmatched, and they did it before the Brand was damaged.
Xavier had better not be afraid to stop a landslide before it starts, if the forecasts look like it.
And yeah. Guys will be lining up, and Greg Christopher had better get it right if it comes to that.

Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since you’re just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Miller’s leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Miller’s staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.

[xavierj]

Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since you’re just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Miller’s leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Miller’s staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.

Yeah that is a bad comparison. MOR has no idea what happened to that guy and I wish it on no one. Guy has been seen from, let alone be involved with basketball. Last I heard he doesn’t even leave his parents house. Not sure what happened but either way it is sad.

[muethibp]

Keep thinking about this thread.

I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji aren’t here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I won’t say it’s all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

These are the bad times.

[bleedXblue]

Keep thinking about this thread.

I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji aren’t here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I won’t say it’s all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

These are the bad times.

I do think the BE dips next year some. Both Powell and Howard gone. Two prolific scorers. I will be excited to see some youth and a new era of XU bball. Expectations will be lower and you just never know. This program has surprised before.

[xavierj]

Keep thinking about this thread.

I know it was started as a joke - certainly treated that way by most everyone even as it serves as a place to discuss the state of the program.

That said, if we are honest about the coming months, the team probably loses a chunk of games down the stretch and misses the tournament. And it seems nearly certain that Paul and Naji aren’t here next year and then you have a team that will struggle to finish better than dead last in the BE. Then what? I won’t say it’s all his fault but three years and no tournaments, probably the worst season in four decades next year. How do you really let him stay?

These are the bad times.

You would have to let him stay. Because you let him go after year three you lose at least one player and your recruiting class. Now you are looking at 6 years with no tournament. Go young next year and keep building and Xavier will be at the top again before long. Xavier has the 15th rated recruiting class and a couple of really good shooters who are tearing up it. They will be adding some basketball players with higher basketball IQ’s. They will also have another top 20 class for 2021. In addition you have two big dudes, one 6’11, who will also he big contributors down the road. Not seeing this thing through to until 2023 would be bad for Xavier in my opinion. When the current group is seniors Xavier will be a loaded group with the talent they will have. You can’t blame Travis for everything because Chris Mack still had a hand in the problem. Then you look at Chris Mack and he should thank Pitino for setting him up to succeed. Chris Mack’s decisions play big into Xavier’s sophomore, junior and senior classes. For example he could have had Jordan Norwa and Xavier Simpson at Xavier, but took Gooding and Harden instead. The year before he left he lost of bunch of dudes who were Xavier leans because people thought he would leave so Xavier basically had no class.

[Masterofreality]

Brandon Miller was not fired purely for performance. He has issues off the court and has not returned to basketball in any capacity. This is not a comparable situation at all. Also, since you’re just making things up, may be helpful to note that Brandon Miller’s leave began October 2nd (right before what would have been his second season) and Chris Holtmann had two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb before coming to join Miller’s staff. Some master plan Collier drew up there.

Uh, who's making stuff up??

In 2013, Gardner Webb had their school record for victories in a season-21. They had been abjectly horrible before and had just gotten into D1. They only went to the CIT because they lost in their conference tournament in a one bid league. The CIT was Gardner Webb's first post season appearance in HISTORY. Holtmann won Big South Coach of the Year in 2013and was given a contract extension by Gardner-Webb. All of this, and yet, when he was offered an ASSISTANTS job at Butler (allegedly), not the HC job, he accepted on JULY,15, 2013. Why would a guy who was building a program and had just been given a 5 year guaranteed extension, and was the HEAD GUY leave to be a second chair? Because Barry Collier was smart and had secret doubts about Miller that manifested after a 14-17 season. I repeat. WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP, AVIATOR??
A quick end to the Butler decline. What will happen at X?

[Muskie in dayton]

I’ve read several posts stating we can’t fire Steele because we’ll lose players/recruits. That may happen, but that myopic thinking can lead to much greater problems. A long term slump with a bad coach could devastate the brand. The head coach continuity may be good for the short term, but only the short term. While certainly no one wants to lose players, what is important is that the brand remains in-tact long term. Plus a new hire will bring recruits and possibly players with him, and a good hire may be able to convince current players and recruits to stay.

Don’t interpret this as my wanting Steele fired - he should have through next season as I’ve stated. But any decision should NOT be made out of a fear for losing players or recruits, whenever it’s made.

[xukeith]

I don't see the excitement with star 3 guards next year as it takes time for frosh to be productive unless you are UK and Duke.

XU's top 25 class this year produced 1 significant contributor (Freemantle) and 2 frosh big men (Miles and Ramsey) bench warmers, a scorer who is slowly learning (Tandy) and of course a kid who is home sick (Bishop).

On paper, Odom looks amazing, but he will need at least 20 games to learn defense and plays.

Carter, Miles, Freemantle, Ramsey and maybe a transfer will be next year's front line. Hoping they are stars.

At X, we are spoiled by success. 2nd all time scorer made 3 pointers very smoothly but that type of player comes every 8 years.

We shall see....

[AviatorX]

Uh, who's making stuff up??

In 2013, Gardner Webb had their school record for victories in a season-21. They had been abjectly horrible before and had just gotten into D1. They only went to the CIT because they lost in their conference tournament in a one bid league. The CIT was Gardner Webb's first post season appearance in HISTORY. Holtmann won Big South Coach of the Year in 2013and was given a contract extension by Gardner-Webb. All of this, and yet, when he was offered an ASSISTANTS job at Butler (allegedly), not the HC job, he accepted on JULY,15, 2013. Why would a guy who was building a program and had just been given a 5 year guaranteed extension, and was the HEAD GUY leave to be a second chair? Because Barry Collier was smart and had secret doubts about Miller that manifested after a 14-17 season. I repeat. WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP, AVIATOR??
A quick end to the Butler decline. What will happen at X?

There’s obviously no point in discussing this with someone who has built an entire conspiracy narrative in their own head, so let’s leave it here.

I’ll just say that the Brandon Miller situation is really sad and not the kind of thing that should fuel conspiracy coaching change speculation.

Also the Butler decline was very much back on post-Holtmann until it all of the sudden wasn’t. It’s almost like things are cyclical at programs that don’t recruit at the very top of the food chain with NBA guys who are ready to make a big impact day one.

[xavierj]

I’ve read several posts stating we can’t fire Steele because we’ll lose players/recruits. That may happen, but that myopic thinking can lead to much greater problems. A long term slump with a bad coach could devastate the brand. The head coach continuity may be good for the short term, but only the short term. While certainly no one wants to lose players, what is important is that the brand remains in-tact long term. Plus a new hire will bring recruits and possibly players with him, and a good hire may be able to convince current players and recruits to stay.

Don’t interpret this as my wanting Steele fired - he should have through next season as I’ve stated. But any decision should NOT be made out of a fear for losing players or recruits, whenever it’s made.

Next year will not be great so you will need more patience than that. You will basically be playing nothing but one senior and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. You have to get to 4 years to make any kind of decision. The only thing next will bring, assuming both Paul and Naji leave, is future potential, but the wins most likely won’t be great regardless of who the coach is. I am not happy with how the year is going but you have to let Travis coach through it and if and when this years freshman are juniors you will be able to make a sound decision on the state of the program. Travis was left with a couple of ball dominant players with low basketball IQ, an undersized center that cant shoot two feet from the basket and a point guard that can’t shoot. That’s a tough hand when you are playing in one of the toughest leagues in the country. People need some perspective. The fact that he got last years group to 9 big east wins and nearly a conference tourney final appearance should count for something. People act like he was given the keys to a Mercedes. But hey people were ready to fire Sean and Chris as well, so I guess it’s what people do.

[GIMMFD]

Next year will not be great so you will need more patience than that. You will basically be playing nothing but one senior and a bunch of freshman and sophomores. You have to get to 4 years to make any kind of decision. The only thing next will bring, assuming both Paul and Naji leave, is future potential, but the wins most likely won’t be great regardless of who the coach is. I am not happy with how the year is going but you have to let Travis coach through it and if and when this years freshman are juniors you will be able to make a sound decision on the state of the program. Travis was left with a couple of ball dominant players with low basketball IQ, an undersized center that cant shoot two feet from the basket and a point guard that can’t shoot. That’s a tough hand when you are playing in one of the toughest leagues in the country. People need some perspective. The fact that he got last years group to 9 big east wins and nearly a conference tourney final appearance should count for something. People act like he was given the keys to a Mercedes. But hey people were ready to fire Sean and Chris as well, so I guess it’s what people do.

Very reasonable take, and one I agree with completely, obviously we thought the Core 4 would take a step up, and they really haven't, they don't compliment each other well with their skill sets, so it leads to a lot of frustration, I think once Travis continues to to recruit hard and get an idea of how he wants to play with recruits that exemplify that, it'll be an easier transition. You're right though, it's going to take a couple years. Unfortunately we aren't Duke or UK where we have 5* freshman chomping at the bits to come here, so rebuilds are going to be just part of it from time to time.

[Jehoya]

I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line. Duke fans are spoiled, North Carolina and Kentucky
fans are spoiled, Xavier is Xavier. Until we reach a final four, and win a national championship we are anything but spoiled. I don’t care about how far X has come from the past, I care about the future! I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport. If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about. I don’t want Travis fired just yet, but if we as alumni and fans should be okay with losing because we got a 1 seed once, then I call bs.

[X-band '01]

At least this season Carolina is not spoiled.

[Masterofreality]

There’s obviously no point in discussing this with someone who has built an entire conspiracy narrative in their own head, so let’s leave it here.

I’ll just say that the Brandon Miller situation is really sad and not the kind of thing that should fuel conspiracy coaching change speculation.

Also the Butler decline was very much back on post-Holtmann until it all of the sudden wasn’t. It’s almost like things are cyclical at programs that don’t recruit at the very top of the food chain with NBA guys who are ready to make a big impact day one.

Oh, yeah, there's a point. You obviously are too thick headed to see the point.
Barry Collier hired a young, unproven coach. He had a backup plan in place, QUICKLY in case it didn't work. His backup plan was somehow being able to convince a up and coming HEAD COACH at a lesser program to come to Butler as an Assistant. Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance, and "allegedly" a Medical Condition that no one knows what of. As opposed to you're inaccurate statement of The Butler decline was very much back on- post Holtmann until all of a sudden it wasn't, Butler went 23-11 in Holtmann's first year as HC, so what does that comment even mean? Holtmann then went 22-11 and 25-9 before he was hired away by Ohio State. That's some, errrrrrr, cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. The year before Miller, Butler was 27-9. Lavall Jordan, in his first year had nothing like Steele had coming back. Today, they are right now Number 5 in the Country. Oh, yeah. That, too is some "Butler decline" -for a year. You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about or saying.

The overriding point is this. In you're twisted words- Brandon Miller was the young hot coaching hire until he wasn't-within a year and a half. Travis Steele was the young hot coaching hire until he....??? We can only hope that Greg Christopher has such a backup plan if this Steele hire doesn't work. We all thought that an experienced former Head Coach on the bench last year and even more this year would have helped Steele. It didn't happen even though they had a chance to hire one after Jeremy Growe left. Now we still have an inexperienced staff and an inexperienced Head Coach. Xavier's full identity is based upon basketball, as is Butler's. Collier controlled the Butler brand. Can Christopher?

[xudash]

I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line. Duke fans are spoiled, North Carolina and Kentucky
fans are spoiled, Xavier is Xavier. Until we reach a final four, and win a national championship we are anything but spoiled. I don’t care about how far X has come from the past, I care about the future! I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport. If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about. I don’t want Travis fired just yet, but if we as alumni and fans should be okay with losing because we got a 1 seed once, then I call bs.

Agree totally.

And I believe most X fans stand with you.

The plan is about the final 2%. He deserves time and his opportunity to get us there.

I will go so far as to say that the upcoming Georgetown game is huge for a couple of reasons:

1. We simply need to win, especially at home;

2. They’ve had time to work on their game and make some adjustments to position themselves for victories. We need to see that.

[xavierj]

You obviously are too thick headed to see the point.
Barry Collier hired a young, unproven coach. He had a backup plan in place, QUICKLY in case it didn't work. His backup plan was somehow being able to convince a up and coming HEAD COACH at a lesser program to come to Butler as an Assistant. Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance. As opposed to you're inaccurate statement of The Butler decline was very much back on- post Holtmann until all of a sudden it wasn't, Butler went 23-11 in Holtmann's first year as HC, so what does that comment even mean? Holtmann then went 22-11 and 25-9 before he was hired away by Ohio State. That's some, errrrrrr, cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. I guess it was a one year and done cycle. The year before Miller, Butler was 27-9. Oh, yeah. That, too is some "Butler decline". You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about or saying.

The overriding point is this. In you're twisted words- Brandon Miller was the young hot coaching hire until he wasn't-within a year and a half. Travis Steele was the young hot coaching hire until he....??? We can only hope that Greg Christopher has such a backup plan if this Steele hire doesn't work. Xavier's full identity is based upon basketball, as is Butler's. Collier controlled the Butler brand. Can Christopher?

You would have wanted to fire Butlers coach last year, they were not good and had a losing record. The year before they were a mediocre 21-14 and 9-9 in conference. We will see how they end up this year but next year they will take a hit after they lose their two best players and not a ton coming back or in. Baldwin will be very hard for them to replace.

[XUGRAD80]

I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line.........I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport.........If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about.......


And THAT my friend is EXACTLY the attitude that could be called “spoiled”. That last line.

There’s a HECK OF A LOT MORE than just being at a point where a school is a national championship contender caliber. To imply THAT is the only reason to have an intercollegiate program demeans the efforts of virtually 99% of the universities in the land and all but one Xavier University squad that has ever competed. To TRY to be the best that are capable of being in ALL we can ask of the program. If that means being a national championship contender, great! But I’m certainly not going to demean those teams that never had that in them, yet worked hard and did what they could to reach the level their talents would allow them to. If Xavier never makes a final 4, never is a #1 seed again, and never wins a NC, yet continues to represent the university with class, continues to graduate its players, continues to produce people that we can all be proud of...I’ll remain a fan forever. My friend, THAT is what it is really all about.

You might not like it when people that have been fans longer than you have been alive think of others as “spoiled” by the success that Xavier has enjoyed over the last 20 years. Maybe it’s not a very accurate term. Perhaps describing them as “ having their priorities wrong” is a better term?

[UCGRAD4X]

I’m sick of hearing the “Xavier fans are just spoiled” line. Duke fans are spoiled, North Carolina and Kentucky
fans are spoiled, Xavier is Xavier. Until we reach a final four, and win a national championship we are anything but spoiled. I don’t care about how far X has come from the past, I care about the future! I want Xavier to be a version of Villanova, consistently competing for the largest prize in the sport. If we aren’t going to do that, then what is it really all about. I don’t want Travis fired just yet, but if we as alumni and fans should be okay with losing because we got a 1 seed once, then I call bs.

I'm with you. We should expect consistent excellence, that is what we have steadily built for decades - better and more consistent as time goes by. Why all of the sudden we accept 3 years of mediocrity (as has been suggested) without expressing concern and discussing possible reasons, problems and solutions. The answers we have are mostly speculative and without a great deal of direct knowledge (very little on my part). If we love this team, we will back them win or lose, but we would rather they win and expect them to. It is exactly because of the passion for this team that drives our intense need for answers to our disappointment.

We should and need to expect excellence. We want to keep building the program to conference championships and FFs and eventually a NC. An occasional backslide is not unexpected but not for multiple years. We've come too far to accept mediocrity. And we don't need to apologize for it.

[Masterofreality]

You would have wanted to fire Butlers coach last year, they were not good and had a losing record. The year before they were a mediocre 21-14 and 9-9 in conference. We will see how they end up this year but next year they will take a hit after they lose their two best players and not a ton coming back or in. Baldwin will be very hard for them to replace.

Who's doing better with his returning players? One guess.

[AviatorX]

Oh, yeah, there's a point. You obviously are too thick headed to see the point.
Barry Collier hired a young, unproven coach. He had a backup plan in place, QUICKLY in case it didn't work. His backup plan was somehow being able to convince a up and coming HEAD COACH at a lesser program to come to Butler as an Assistant. Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance. As opposed to you're inaccurate statement of The Butler decline was very much back on- post Holtmann until all of a sudden it wasn't, Butler went 23-11 in Holtmann's first year as HC, so what does that comment even mean? Holtmann then went 22-11 and 25-9 before he was hired away by Ohio State. That's some, errrrrrr, cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. I guess it was a one year and done cycle. The year before Miller, Butler was 27-9. Today, they are right now Number 5 in the Country. Oh, yeah. That, too is some "Butler decline". You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about or saying.

The overriding point is this. In you're twisted words- Brandon Miller was the young hot coaching hire until he wasn't-within a year and a half. Travis Steele was the young hot coaching hire until he....??? We can only hope that Greg Christopher has such a backup plan if this Steele hire doesn't work. Xavier's full identity is based upon basketball, as is Butler's. Collier controlled the Butler brand. Can Christopher?

I said the Butler decline was on post-Holtmann right up until it wasnÂ’t. Hint: that means after he left. JordanÂ’s first year was good, but he inherited a senior Kelan Martin. After that, recruiting took a concerning nosedive and Butler was terrible last year (finished with a losing record). They were picked 8th in the BE this season, an assessment no one really questioned. There were definitely concerns. Now, theyÂ’re on pace for a protected seed out of nowhere. There are dips at programs like Xavier and Butler, especially when entire recruiting classes vanish.

The way youÂ’ve written the narrative around Brandon Miller and Collier is so delusional. Are you honestly saying you donÂ’t think Brandon Miller has off the court issues? Why do you think heÂ’s essentially become a recluse and has not taken a job at any level in college basketball, despite having the continued endorsement of Brad Stevens, who is universally acknowledged as an elite basketball mind?

[X-band '01]

Butler had a losing Big East record, but not an overall losing record. In fact, everyone (even DePaul) ended up with a postseason bid.

That said, I honestly don't know why Butler didn't just directly hire Holtmann after Stevens left for Boston. Unless there was some loophole in his Gardner-Webb contract that would have had a buyout for taking another head coaching job yet said nothing about taking an assistant job elsewhere.

[AviatorX]

Butler had a losing Big East record, but not an overall losing record. In fact, everyone (even DePaul) ended up with a postseason bid.

That said, I honestly don't know why Butler didn't just directly hire Holtmann after Stevens left for Boston. Unless there was some loophole in his Gardner-Webb contract that would have had a buyout for taking another head coaching job yet said nothing about taking an assistant job elsewhere.

They finished 16-17 if you include their NIT loss.

[Masterofreality]

I said the Butler decline was on post-Holtmann right up until it wasnÂ’t. Hint: that means after he left. JordanÂ’s first year was good, but he inherited a senior Kelan Martin. After that, recruiting took a concerning nosedive and Butler was terrible last year (finished with a losing record). They were picked 8th in the BE this season, an assessment no one really questioned. There were definitely concerns. Now, theyÂ’re on pace for a protected seed out of nowhere. There are dips at programs like Xavier and Butler, especially when entire recruiting classes vanish.

The way youÂ’ve written the narrative around Brandon Miller and Collier is so delusional. Are you honestly saying you donÂ’t think Brandon Miller has off the court issues? Why do you think heÂ’s essentially become a recluse and has not taken a job at any level in college basketball, despite having the continued endorsement of Brad Stevens, who is universally acknowledged as an elite basketball mind?

I've written no narrative. I laid out a factual timeline. Are you saying that Barry Collier didn't have a backup plan ready? Are you saying hiring Chris Holtmann when he did meant nothing? What the hell are you saying? Yeah, Jordan's first year was good. The next year he had a similar roster as Xavier last year with similar results. This year they're Number 5 with 2 returning seniors- McDermott is a lesser player than Tyrique and I'd rate Baldwin equal to Naji. We are flopping. Did you say that Xavier's Elite 8 run two years ago was "out of nowhere" too? I'd like to see your quotes from 2 years ago. Good coaches make adjustments and make iish happen. What makes you think this current guy can adjust?

What is Xavier's back up plan?

[Masterofreality]

They finished 16-17 if you include their NIT loss.


Wow. We won one more NIT game!! HOOOOOOOOORRRRRRAAYYYYYY!!!

[AviatorX]

I've written no narrative. I laid out a factual timeline. Are you saying that Barry Collier didn't have a backup plan ready? Are you saying hiring Chris Holtmann when he did meant nothing? What the hell are you saying? Yeah, Jordan's first year was good. The next year he had a similar roster as Xavier last year with similar results. This year they're Number 5 with 2 returning seniors- McDermott is a lesser player than Tyrique and I'd rate Baldwin equal to Naji. We are flopping. Did you say that Xavier's Elite 8 run two years ago was "out of nowhere" too? I'd like to see your quotes from 2 years ago. Good coaches make adjustments and make iish happen. What makes you think this current guy can adjust?

What is Xavier's back up plan?

You have repeatedly alluded to the thought that Brandon Miller was essentially fired under the cover of a contrived medical leave of absence. That’s the narrative.

If it comes down to it, I’d much rather burn it to the ground and go full rebuild than hire a guy with two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb. You would riot if that’s what Xavier did.

Obviously Greg Christopher has a shortlist like any AD does. The way you think about things though, maybe we already have an emergency backup on staff in Matt Graves and will wait until next October to convince Steele to take fake medical leave?

[Masterofreality]

You have repeatedly alluded to the thought that Brandon Miller was essentially fired under the cover of a contrived medical leave of absence. That’s the narrative.

If it comes down to it, I’d much rather burn it to the ground and go full rebuild than hire a guy with two losing seasons and a CIT appearance at Gardner Webb. You would riot if that’s what Xavier did.

Obviously Greg Christopher has a shortlist like any AD does. The way you think about things though, maybe we already have an emergency backup on staff in Matt Graves and will wait until next October to convince Steele to take fake medical leave?

And you continually miss the point and still haven't given Collier the credit for having a solid backup plan. Butler is Number 5 in the country. We stink with few answers or improvement. Butler and Xavier have similar rosters. They controlled the damage. To date we are not.

Welp. Matt Graves was a Head Coach, but he stunk and was fired. Not nearly as successful as Holtmann who had just been given a contract extension, in fact Graves' teams never made a post season. And this team's offense is as bad as before, the rebounding is a disaster and the defense stinks too. If he's the backup plan and if that's who Steele thinks is a guy who can help, Lord help us.

And the fact that you would not have hired Chris Holtmann tells me that you know absolutely zero about basketball. So this discussion between us is over. Keep doing your mindless accusations and reckless finger pointing tho. I'm sure you give yourself the warm and fuzzies...or is that from Xavier's current dumpster fire? Hmmmm.

[AviatorX]

And you continually miss the point and still haven't given Collier the credit for having a solid backup plan. Butler is Number 5 in the country. We stink with few answers or improvement. Butler and Xavier have similar rosters. They controlled the damage. To date we are not.

Welp. Matt Graves was a Head Coach, but he stunk and was fired. Not nearly as successful as Holtmann who had just been given a contract extension, in fact Graves' teams never made a post season. And this team's offense is as bad as before, the rebounding is a disaster and the defense stinks too. If he's the backup plan and if that's who Steele thinks is a guy who can help, Lord help us.

And the fact that you would not have hired Chris Holtmann tells me that you know absolutely zero about basketball. So this discussion between us is over. Keep doing your mindless accusations and reckless finger pointing tho. I'm sure you give yourself the warm and fuzzies...or is that from Xavier's current dumpster fire? Hmmmm.

Yeah I’m sure Chris Holtmann was at the top of your short list for Big East head jobs at the time. Please. 1000% credit to Butler for adding him to their staff, it was obviously a tremendous hire. I just don’t think the plan was for him to be the head coach two months later after Butler faked a medical leave situation to usher Miller out. That’s what you said.

I haven’t said anything positive about the current situation at Xavier in this back and forth, so not really sure I get the warm and fuzzies comment.

Coming from you, don’t think there’s anyway to take a shot at my basketball knowledge as anything but a compliment.

Mindless accusations and reckless finger pointing? Do me a favor and go back and re read what you said about Brandon Miller. It’s honestly so stupid it’s impressive.

Not sure why I’m arguing with the guy who thinks nicknames like Beaknose and Desert Racoon are funny. I guess thats on me.

[OTRMUSKIE]

X has stupid basketball players, that’s all you need to know. They might be book smart but when it comes to hoops they are dumb as hell. I still think of X just refuses to shoot any 3’s next game they may win by 75 points. Give it a shot Travis

[noteggs]

2. They’ve had time to work on their game and make some adjustments to position themselves for victories. We need to see that.

This is where I stand. We’ve had 7 days (may be for silver lining thread) to adjust on who should start and so forth. It’ll be interesting to see if we have a new lineup and/or attitude. Should tell us a lot!

[Xville]

If they have the exact same lineup, I might flip the f out. Changes have to be made.

[xudash]

BTW, Duke can play stupidly also.

[xavierj]

And you continually miss the point and still haven't given Collier the credit for having a solid backup plan. Butler is Number 5 in the country. We stink with few answers or improvement. Butler and Xavier have similar rosters. They controlled the damage. To date we are not.

Welp. Matt Graves was a Head Coach, but he stunk and was fired. Not nearly as successful as Holtmann who had just been given a contract extension, in fact Graves' teams never made a post season. And this team's offense is as bad as before, the rebounding is a disaster and the defense stinks too. If he's the backup plan and if that's who Steele thinks is a guy who can help, Lord help us.

And the fact that you would not have hired Chris Holtmann tells me that you know absolutely zero about basketball. So this discussion between us is over. Keep doing your mindless accusations and reckless finger pointing tho. I'm sure you give yourself the warm and fuzzies...or is that from Xavier's current dumpster fire? Hmmmm.

Butler will no longer be in the top 5 as they have now lost two straight and could have three if they didn't get lucky at St. John's. Ohio State and that awesome coach Holtmann is now 2-5 in the Big 10. I bet Butler ends up with 7 Big East losses and Ohio State will have at least 10 Big 10 losses.

[Jehoya]

And THAT my friend is EXACTLY the attitude that could be called “spoiled”. That last line.

There’s a HECK OF A LOT MORE than just being at a point where a school is a national championship contender caliber. To imply THAT is the only reason to have an intercollegiate program demeans the efforts of virtually 99% of the universities in the land and all but one Xavier University squad that has ever competed. To TRY to be the best that are capable of being in ALL we can ask of the program. If that means being a national championship contender, great! But I’m certainly not going to demean those teams that never had that in them, yet worked hard and did what they could to reach the level their talents would allow them to. If Xavier never makes a final 4, never is a #1 seed again, and never wins a NC, yet continues to represent the university with class, continues to graduate its players, continues to produce people that we can all be proud of...I’ll remain a fan forever. My friend, THAT is what it is really all about.

You might not like it when people that have been fans longer than you have been alive think of others as “spoiled” by the success that Xavier has enjoyed over the last 20 years. Maybe it’s not a very accurate term. Perhaps describing them as “ having their priorities wrong” is a better term?

I’m sure Fordham graduates many of their players, and those players contribute largely to their surrounding community. I bet they are proud to have the honor play for them, but if Xavier ever says “okay this is good enough” we’ve been spoiled so we’re fine taking a step or two back, we might as well be Fordham. Aspiring for more is what separates the 99 percent from the 1 percent. No ones demeaning past teams, but a standard is a standard and I want that for Xavier. I want X to win. If we aren’t going full speed towards the highest level then we are accepting defeat.

[waggy]

Sure, when X can lure and/or keep the top coaches with the requisite dollars....

[OTRMUSKIE]

I don’t care about the community I want to win. Xavier is the only thing that makes
Winter fun. If they suck that means my entire year of sports sucks. Bungles, reds then Xavier.

[XUGRAD80]

I’m sure Fordham graduates many of their players, and those players contribute largely to their surrounding community. I bet they are proud to have the honor play for them, but if Xavier ever says “okay this is good enough” we’ve been spoiled so we’re fine taking a step or two back, we might as well be Fordham. Aspiring for more is what separates the 99 percent from the 1 percent. No ones demeaning past teams, but a standard is a standard and I want that for Xavier. I want X to win. If we aren’t going full speed towards the highest level then we are accepting defeat.

Nothing wrong with trying to reach those levels, nothing wrong with giving it everything you can to reach those levels....UNTIL the quest to reach those levels means that you abandon the core principles that are really what is important. Xavier is a University first and foremost. It’s mission is to educate and prepare people for their lives outside of sports. It’s not to just win ball games. “a standard is a standard” sounds cute, But what does it really mean? Xavier already has standards when it comes to academic performance, employee and student behavior, and admissions. Beyond that it has GOALS. Should it abandon its standards in order to reach its goals? Should we? One of those standards deals with supporting others. Others within the Xavier family. Travis has certainly earned his spot in the Xavier family, win or lose. So have the players on the team. Yet it seems that some here are ready to just toss them all aside because they aren’t reaching the level of performance that some here act like is their “standard”.

If X does not reach the sweet 16 some years, or fails to even reach the tourney, we would all call that disappointing performance because we have expectations that they can do that. But to not “accept” anything less. To “demand” that of the program......as FANS......leaves me scratching my head and saying wow, just wow. Xavier has already reached levels for success on the court that many of us could never have even imagined they would. It wasn’t even a dream. A spoiled child is one that gets upset when they don’t get what they want, and it’s also one that doesn’t appreciate what they have. Nobody is saying that X shouldn’t have it as a GOAL to reach the highest level possible, even if that was not a goal that we could even dream of not that many years ago. But to say that not “going full spread towards the highest level” is “accepting defeat”, when the “highest level” is a national championship and nothing else, seems to me to be where someone has forgotten what the purpose of the university really is.

Just how far do they have to go to be “going full speed towards the highest level”? Do they have to drop all other sports and put all of their money into men’s basketball? Should they drop academic standards to a point where they recruit any player, even those that they know won’t succeed in class? Should they flaunt NCAA rules? What standards elsewhere are you willing to let go in search of that “highest level”? Are you willing for X to become something they are not....and I mean that in a bad way....just so that they can hang banners?

I hear that Freemantle shoots until he makes 200 3 pointers every morning a 7. I heard that Tandy was shooting in the gym at 3:30 in the morning after returning from a road trip. I am pretty sure that 99% of the people here really have no idea what the schedule for these student-athletes is and what they sacrifice to be a member of the team. I’d be willing to bet that Travis and the other coaches are putting in some all-nighters after games and haven’t seen much of their families the last couple of months. Sounds to me like the players and coaches are going “full speed”. I haven’t seen any of them mailing it in. Heck, they were down 20 and still pressing in the last 30 seconds of the Marquette game, that’s certainly not giving up. They are certainly TRYING to reach the goals that you want. As long as THEY keep TRYING and are not giving up, neither should we. If they don’t reach those goals, and yet have done everything within their power, having not sacrificed their standards in regards to academics and personal behavior along the way.....they certainly are not “accepting defeat”. If we continue to support them in these times of adversity, neither are we. Maybe they won’t ever reach F4 or NC level, but by trying to reach those levels they will climb higher than they might otherwise have ever done. THAT is victory, no matter where they end up in the standings.

By the way....Xavier has a lot of basketball alumni that actually LOST games to Fordham. Some of them are counted among the great of Xavier basketball. Does having lost to that university lower them in some way? Fordham has many famous alumni (Vince Lombardi was one) that have been great contributors to sport and society. There’s nothing wrong with being a Fordham. As a Xavier alumnus, if Xavier was still playing against teams of that caliber, and was still competing at that level, I’d still be a fan. The level that the BB program at X has reached has not effected my life in any real way. The most it has done is to mean that I actually spend more time watching them on TV than I would if their games weren’t on TV and I could only hear them on the radio. Sometimes that’s a negative because we sometimes schedule events around their games, especially during NCAA tourney time. I probably waste way to much time on this board. When people ask me where I went to college, and I tell them X, they now know who that is. I don’t think that X making a final 4 or winning a NC is going to change that much, if at all.

[AviatorX]

Nothing wrong with trying to reach those levels, nothing wrong with giving it everything you can to reach those levels....UNTIL the quest to reach those levels means that you abandon the core principles that are really what is important. Xavier is a University first and foremost. It’s mission is to educate and prepare people for their lives outside of sports. It’s not to just win ball games. “a standard is a standard” sounds cute, But what does it really mean? Xavier already has standards when it comes to academic performance, employee and student behavior, and admissions. Beyond that it has GOALS. Should it abandon its standards in order to reach its goals? Should we? One of those standards deals with supporting others. Others within the Xavier family. Travis has certainly earned his spot in the Xavier family, win or lose. So have the players on the team. Yet it seems that some here are ready to just toss them all aside because they aren’t reaching the level of performance that some here act like is their “standard”.

If X does not reach the sweet 16 some years, or fails to even reach the tourney, we would all call that disappointing performance because we have expectations that they can do that. But to not “accept” anything less. To “demand” that of the program......as FANS......leaves me scratching my head and saying wow, just wow. Xavier has already reached levels for success on the court that many of us could never have even imagined they would. It wasn’t even a dream. A spoiled child is one that gets upset when they don’t get what they want, and it’s also one that doesn’t appreciate what they have. Nobody is saying that X shouldn’t have it as a GOAL to reach the highest level possible, even if that was not a goal that we could even dream of not that many years ago. But to say that not “going full spread towards the highest level” is “accepting defeat”, when the “highest level” is a national championship and nothing else, seems to me to be where someone has forgotten what the purpose of the university really is.

Just how far do they have to go to be “going full speed towards the highest level”? Do they have to drop all other sports and put all of their money into men’s basketball? Should they drop academic standards to a point where they recruit any player, even those that they know won’t succeed in class? Should they flaunt NCAA rules? What standards elsewhere are you willing to let go in search of that “highest level”? Are you willing for X to become something they are not....and I mean that in a bad way....just so that they can hang banners?

I hear that Freemantle shoots until he makes 200 3 pointers every morning a 7. I heard that Tandy was shooting in the gym at 3:30 in the morning after returning from a road trip. I am pretty sure that 99% of the people here really have no idea what the schedule for these student-athletes is and what they sacrifice to be a member of the team. I’d be willing to bet that Travis and the other coaches are putting in some all-nighters after games and haven’t seen much of their families the last couple of months. Sounds to me like the players and coaches are going “full speed”. I haven’t seen any of them mailing it in. Heck, they were down 20 and still pressing in the last 30 seconds of the Marquette game, that’s certainly not giving up. They are certainly TRYING to reach the goals that you want. As long as THEY keep TRYING and are not giving up, neither should we. If they don’t reach those goals, and yet have done everything within their power, having not sacrificed their standards in regards to academics and personal behavior along the way.....they certainly are not “accepting defeat”. If we continue to support them in these times of adversity, neither are we. Maybe they won’t ever reach F4 or NC level, but by trying to reach those levels they will climb higher than they might otherwise have ever done. THAT is victory, no matter where they end up in the standings.

By the way....Xavier has a lot of basketball alumni that actually LOST games to Fordham. Some of them are counted among the great of Xavier basketball. Does having lost to that university lower them in some way? Fordham has many famous alumni (Vince Lombardi was one) that have been great contributors to sport and society. There’s nothing wrong with being a Fordham. As a Xavier alumnus, if Xavier was still playing against teams of that caliber, and was still competing at that level, I’d still be a fan. The level that the BB program at X has reached has not effected my life in any real way. The most it has done is to mean that I actually spend more time watching them on TV than I would if their games weren’t on TV and I could only hear them on the radio. Sometimes that’s a negative because we sometimes schedule events around their games, especially during NCAA tourney time. I probably waste way to much time on this board. When people ask me where I went to college, and I tell them X, they now know who that is. I don’t think that X making a final 4 or winning a NC is going to change that much, if at all.

FYI, this is a Xavier basketball message board. Don’t think anyone really cares about graduation rates and academics when we’re discussing frustrations with this particular team in a vacuum. Every school Xavier competes against also has players going to class and graduating. We all appreciate this stuff, but it’s not some grand answer to those expecting more from the basketball team.

[XUGRAD80]

FYI, this is a Xavier basketball message board. Don’t think anyone really cares about graduation rates and academics when we’re discussing frustrations with this particular team in a vacuum. Every school Xavier competes against also has players going to class and graduating. We all appreciate this stuff, but it’s not some grand answer to those expecting more from the basketball team.


Didn’t realize you had to separate the two things.....basketball and university. Don’t see how you can. The basketball program doesn’t operate in a vacuum, unaffected by actual reality. Are we discussing dreams or reality here?

Just dreams? OK......winning a NC would be a dream come true. As long as I don’t wake up and find it has become a nightmare.

[AviatorX]

Didn’t realize you had to separate the two things.....basketball and university. Don’t see how you can. The basketball program doesn’t operate in a vacuum, unaffected by actual reality. Are we discussing dreams or reality here?

Just dreams? OK......winning a NC would be a dream come true. As long as I don’t wake up and find it has become a nightmare.

You don’t have to separate them, but I don’t really see the relevance in continually leaning on it to push back on the idea that fans can and should have high expectations for a high major division 1 basketball team. And if we’re being honest, Xavier men’s basketball is pretty separate from the university. It’s it’s own entity.

Your responses would make more sense if folks were openly calling for paying players, etc. It just doesn’t fit when the discussion is whether Travis Steele is getting the job done to our expectations.

Everything you are describing is a GIVEN for 99% of college basketball programs. So we as fans judge the success on wins and losses.

[XUGRAD80]

You don’t have to separate them, but I don’t really see the relevance in continually leaning on it to push back on the idea that fans can and should have high expectations for a high major division 1 basketball team. And if we’re being honest.......we as fans judge the success on wins and losses.

Might be true for some, I don’t think it’s true for all.

Someone saying that unless Xavier is going “full speed” towards the “highest level” of success (when success is measured only in terms of wins and losses) they are “accepting defeat”, is an opinion, not a fact.

I merely am stating that from MY perspective, that’s not all there is and I don’t base “success” merely on the wins and loses. Does that make me LESS of a fan, or just a fan with a different perspective?

I accept that there are fans that only look at how many banners can be raised and how many tourneys can be won, and say that unless that is happening, they are a failure. I just don’t agree with that opinion. In fact, I vehemently disagree with that and honestly believe that to take that perspective is to imply that all of the players and coaches that didn’t reach that level, or don’t reach that level in the future, were or will be failures. Which I totally disagree with too.

It’s not a matter of saying X should have high expectations....it’s only a difference of opinion of what the expectations are and what areas they cover.

[Xville]

Might be true for some, I don’t think it’s true for all.

Someone saying that unless Xavier is going “full speed” towards the “highest level” of success (when success is measured only in terms of wins and losses) they are “accepting defeat”, is an opinion, not a fact.

I merely am stating that from MY perspective, that’s not all there is and I don’t base “success” merely on the wins and loses. Does that make me LESS of a fan, or just a fan with a different perspective?

I accept that there are fans that only look at how many banners can be raised and how many tourneys can be won, and say that unless that is happening, they are a failure. I just don’t agree with that opinion. In fact, I vehemently disagree with that and honestly believe that to take that perspective is to imply that all of the players and coaches that didn’t reach that level, or don’t reach that level in the future, were or will be failures. Which I totally disagree with too.

It’s not a matter of saying X should have high expectations....it’s only a difference of opinion of what the expectations are and what areas they cover.

Frankly, wins are of utmost importance when it comes to both the basketball team and to the university as a whole. If the basketball team is not winning at a high level, that is a serious problem for the growth and sustainability of the school.

Not making the tournament at this point is a complete failure every year they dont make it.

[bleedXblue]

Man we need to play a game ASAP......AND win or lose, look like we have made some adjustments and are making some progress.

I fear what this board will look like if we don't and continue down the same path we've see so far this year.

[XU 87]

Miller was removed after one year because of Collier's backup plan and his performance, and "allegedly" a Medical Condition that no one knows what of.

Miller definitely had a medical condition, which, although never disclosed, I believe was mental health issues. He took a medical leave of absence a few weeks before the season started, and never returned. Do you really think Butler forced him out a few weeks before the season started because they wanted Holtman as the head coach, and then made up this medical issue?

[MADXSTER]

Might be true for some, I don’t think it’s true for all.



There are now a lot of Xavier fans that have never gone to Xavier. They don't necessarily relate to the school aspect of fandom. Kinda like most UK fans have never gone to UK. Same with Duke. It's OK to just be a Xavier basketball fan.

[bjf123]

I don’t care about the community I want to win. Xavier is the only thing that makes
Winter fun. If they suck that means my entire year of sports sucks. Bungles, reds then Xavier.

Don’t forget FC Cincinnati. They sucked last year, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[XUBison]

Didn’t realize you had to separate the two things.....basketball and university. Don’t see how you can. The basketball program doesn’t operate in a vacuum, unaffected by actual reality. Are we discussing dreams or reality here?

Just dreams? OK......winning a NC would be a dream come true. As long as I don’t wake up and find it has become a nightmare.

every time you climb on one of your high horses to lecture the rest of us, which you seem to do several times each day, it’s like the air in this board gets sucked out into space and replaced with a giant smelly fart.

[Xville]

every time you climb on one of your high horses to lecture the rest of us, which you seem to do several times each day, it’s like the air in this board gets sucked out into space and replaced with a giant smelly fart.

Public and private reps and right on. The preaching on how to be a fan is absurd.

[noteggs]

There are now a lot of Xavier fans that have never gone to Xavier. They don't necessarily relate to the school aspect of fandom. Kinda like most UK fans have never gone to UK. Same with Duke. It's OK to just be a Xavier basketball fan.

It’s awesome we have so many regional fans now from all walks of life. Heck it’s nice that people call us eggs trying to get under our skin vs just not knowing.

However, still can’t go somewhere and see someone with X gear only to ask them, “did you go to X?” Old habits are hard to break when the majority of fans were grads and students.

[XUGRAD80]

What? I can’t express my OPINIONS now? Cause they don’t agree with somebody else’s? If you don’t like them, don’t read them. No sweat off my brow. Personally I find all of the “demands” and “won’t except” and all the rest of the whining, tiring and annoying too. But I’m not “demanding” that anyone stop it. I’m not saying that I’m going to “F’in lose it” if it doesn’t stop. I’m not demanding that people come over to my way of thinking. Do what you want. I’m not telling anybody that they have to do anything. I’m certainly not telling anyone how to be a “fan”. I just think that some of the statements that some of the people have made here are BS. I find them distasteful and beneath what I think that Xavier stands for. If that bothers some of you, so be it. If you think that’s being preachy, so be be it. It’s what I see as the truth. I don’t really expect anyone to change their behavior just because I don’t like it. but if I just sit by and don’t call it out, then it’s just like I agree with it. It’s almost as bad as if I had said it. So when I see it, I’m going to express my disagreement, and then explain why I disagree. I’ve tried to be respectful and to not get personal. I don’t think that I’ve attacked anyone’s right to say anything, or anything about them personally. If I have, or if someone thinks that something I’ve written has done either of those things, I apologize. It’s not been my intention.

[Masterofreality]

Butler will no longer be in the top 5 as they have now lost two straight and could have three if they didn't get lucky at St. John's. Ohio State and that awesome coach Holtmann is now 2-5 in the Big 10. I bet Butler ends up with 7 Big East losses and Ohio State will have at least 10 Big 10 losses.

They're both in the Top 25 even with those losses. Xavier is 68th in the NET right now and dropping. You must be clairvoyant to be able to know now that Butler will lose 7 and Ohio State 10. Pray tell, what Ford Motor Company stock will be on March 15.

Tell me who is in better shape between X, Butler and Ohio State?

[Masterofreality]

Miller definitely had a medical condition, which, although never disclosed, I believe was mental health issues. He took a medical leave of absence a few weeks before the season started, and never returned. Do you really think Butler forced him out a few weeks before the season started because they wanted Holtman as the head coach, and then made up this medical issue?

Again. Collier had a backup plan that he had crafted even before Miller had coached a game with Holtmann. Collier obviously had suspicions. Waiting until October to change coaches is odd at best, but the back up plan was put into place rapidly.
There is zero backup plan for Steele, at least none that we can decipher. Butler minimized their Brand damage. Xavier risks horrible brand damage if this iish isn't turned around. Christopher has gone all chips in on Steele as the in house hire and the process did happen fast. Greg had better be right.

[Masterofreality]

I hear that Freemantle shoots until he makes 200 3 pointers every morning a 7. I heard that Tandy was shooting in the gym at 3:30 in the morning after returning from a road trip. I am pretty sure that 99% of the people here really have no idea what the schedule for these student-athletes is and what they sacrifice to be a member of the team. I’d be willing to bet that Travis and the other coaches are putting in some all-nighters after games and haven’t seen much of their families the last couple of months.

No one has said that the players aren't working hard. The question is whether these hard working players are being put in the best position to succeed via scheme and strategy. Kyky can spend 4 hours shooting 3's to get better, but if the scheme doesn't free him up to take good threes, he won't succeed. How many multiple screens ala Marquette for Howard, have you seen Xavier run this year? How many Creighton type pick that they run for Ballock have you seen Xavier run? How many Pick and Rolls for Freemantle have you seen? How many Pick and Pops for Zach have you seen?
Bottom line. These players are better than what we've seen, but they are not being given the wherewithal to be better. There was absolutley zero change in the offensive sets vs Marquette vs what was for Creighton, for Seton Hall, vs, etc, etc, etc.
Our defense is being shredded now, but all we've heard from Steele is a veiled slap at the players for "tying their defense to their offense". Welp Coach. You've schemed both of them, and they both suck. You have said that your practices going into both the Creighton and Marquette games were "GREAT", but your game performance was awful, so a what the hell are you practicing? What is your plan to be better? What are you going to do about putting these guys in better spots?
Pulling all nighters when your team isn't performing isn't noble, any more than pulling an all nighter for a final exam is when you're a student that have not prepared properly earlier. It's a job that you are paid very handsomely for and one where the scoreboard counts. Wins count. Losses get you fired. That's the cold hard fact.

[GIMMFD]

Man we need to play a game ASAP......AND win or lose, look like we have made some adjustments and are making some progress.

I fear what this board will look like if we don't and continue down the same path we've see so far this year.

This, I mean there was a week of practice, a weekend off couldn't have come at a better time, things need to look better to the eye test against Georgetown, but man, we are reeling bad right now. I'm hoping they just come out pissed off, and play a good game.

[XU22]

I honestly think Travis is clueless tactically. Good recruiters don't always translate into good coaches. He needs a veteran coach on his bench.

BINGO! Some guys just don't have the chops when it comes to coaching. There is some elite-level X and O guys in the Big East. They hire a great staff and they are able to get kids that fit their system.

Steele is an amazing recruiter but that is all he is bringing to the table that I have seen so far.

Really hope I am wrong but Steele's tenure at X sure feels like it is going to resemble his brothers at Illinois and being a huge Illini fan I really hope that is not the case here at X.

If Steele does get fired after this season, these are some candidates that I would consider: Shaka Smart, Kevin Keatts, Brian Dutcher, Ron Hunter, and Steve Prohm

[GOX]

No one has said that the players aren't working hard. The question is whether these hard working players are being put in the best position to succeed via scheme and strategy. Kyky can spend 4 hours shooting 3's to get better, but if the scheme doesn't free him up to take good threes, he won't succeed. How many multiple screens ala Marquette for Howard, have you seen Xavier run this year? How many Creighton type pick that they run for Ballock have you seen Xavier run? How many Pick and Rolls for Freemantle have you seen? How many Pick and Pops for Zach have you seen?
Bottom line. These players are better than what we've seen, but they are not being given the wherewithal to be better. There was absolutley zero change in the offensive sets vs Marquette vs what was for Creighton, for Seton Hall, vs, etc, etc, etc.
Our defense is being shredded now, but all we've heard from Steele is a veiled slap at the players for "tying their defense to their offense". Welp Coach. You've schemed both of them, and they both suck. You have said that your practices going into both the Creighton and Marquette games were "GREAT", but your game performance was awful, so a what the hell are you practicing? What is your plan to be better? What are you going to do about putting these guys in better spots?
Pulling all nighters when your team isn't performing isn't noble, any more than pulling an all nighter for a final exam is when you're a student that have not prepared properly earlier. It's a job that you are paid very handsomely for and one where the scoreboard counts. Wins count. Losses get you fired. That's the cold hard fact.

Anyone who has followed this Message Board knows MOR is a passionate Xavier Fan. He also is not lacking in his knowledge of the game while not professing to be ready to coach the Celtics. My point is he is a more than qualified Fan entitled to question the correlation between the teams recent performance and Coach Steele ‘s capacities. Any one who watched/followed this weekends Big East Games knows this is a formidable conference and there are no easy games. This team , collectively, is not super talented but is playing at or beneath anyone’s expected nadir. When that happens, you have to drill down on coaching . If you assume they are being well coached, either they are out to sabotage the season or they are totally lacking in basketball IQ, situational awareness, or don’t care to win. Take your choice.

[drudy23]

There are plenty of well informed posters here that have been preaching the same refrain as MOR.

It's pretty obvious what the problems are, even if some choose to ignore them and question said posters fandom.

[AviatorX]

BINGO! Some guys just don't have the chops when it comes to coaching. There is some elite-level X and O guys in the Big East. They hire a great staff and they are able to get kids that fit their system.

Steele is an amazing recruiter but that is all he is bringing to the table that I have seen so far.

Really hope I am wrong but Steele's tenure at X sure feels like it is going to resemble his brothers at Illinois and being a huge Illini fan I really hope that is not the case here at X.

If Steele does get fired after this season, these are some candidates that I would consider: Shaka Smart, Kevin Keatts, Brian Dutcher, Ron Hunter, and Steve Prohm

Truly an incredible list.

[GoMuskies]

Truly an incredible list.

Yeah, some of those names are just....what? Do we think Steve Lappas is unavailable or something?

[Masterofreality]

Yeah, some of those names are just....what? Do we think Steve Lappas is unavailable or something?

Bring back Kevin O’ Nucklehead or Derrick Kellogg!!

LARGE EYE ROLL

[XU 87]

I think Kevin Stalllings is looking for a job.

[Xville]

Maybe we could get Frank Haith... fingers crossed.

[XU 87]

I heard Cronin misses living in Cincinnati.......

[Xville]

Brian Gregory? I know he may cost a lot because he has won both a CBI and an NIT championship, but maybe we could do a car wash fundraiser to open up the coffers?

[GoMuskies]

Denny Crum and Joe B. Hall are just sitting in Kentucky doing a radio show (I assume that still exists). What a dynamic duo those could be! (for a few years before they both die)

[Xville]

Denny Crum and Joe B. Hall are just sitting in Kentucky doing a radio show (I assume that still exists). What a dynamic duo those could be! (for a few years before they both die)

That piece of crap has thankfully been off the air for a while.

[Masterofreality]

Ok. WTF.

Steele was not "available" for his Coaches Show" tonight, because he was "out recruiting"! How amazingly convenient!! I know there was an event up in Kettering- Flying to the Hoop but there is no one on any of the teams that were playing this afternoon/evening that Xavier is even remotely linked to. Certainly no one that an Assistant couldn't have scouted. Instead he sent Jonas Hayes to deflect questions from Joe and Byron. And boy did he.
Jonas made the comment that they were working in practice to correct the "mistakes made in the Marquette game". When Byron asked him a direct question as to what those mistakes were, Jonas deflected by saying "Oh, there were so many I can't name them all" . When Joe asked him about the rebounding Jonas just said "We have to get better" then said something about the perimeter guards not boxing out on long rebounds. Maybe, but that's another deflection answer, especially when it doesn't address why WE can't offensively rebound. Then, when Byron tried to ask him about our offensive woes, then followed up by pointing out Xavier's dropping defensive ranking, the same ol' "Defense being tied to offense" answer came up with zero explanation.
Finally, when Byron asked what adjustments can fans expect to see Wednesday, Jonas' answer was "Oh, that's something in the saddlebag". He also said that their practices this week have been fantastic. Uh, Ok, fair, but we'd better see something Wednesday.

Now Steele has avoided answering questions about his team's trash performances twice since that Marquette debacle. He's skipped out on two occasions to not face the music from actually friendly announcers while shirking his responsibilities under a radio show that he has. At best it's bad form. At worst it's a guy who is clueless and is afraid to show it. Wow.

[Xville]

Ok. WTF.

Steele was not "available" for his Coaches Show" tonight, because he was "out recruiting"! How amazingly convenient!! I know there was an event up in Kettering- Flying to the Hoop but there is no one on any of the teams that were playing this afternoon/evening that Xavier is even remotely linked to. Certainly no one that an Assistant couldn't have scouted. Instead he sent Jonas Hayes to deflect questions from Joe and Byron. And boy did he.
Jonas made the comment that they were working in practice to correct the "mistakes made in the Marquette game". When Byron asked him a direct question as to what those mistakes were, Jonas deflected by saying "Oh, there were so many I can't name them all" . When Joe asked him about the rebounding Jonas just said "We have to get better" then said something about the perimeter guards not boxing out on long rebounds. Maybe, but that's another deflection answer, especially when it doesn't address why WE can't offensively rebound. Then, when Byron tried to ask him about our offensive woes, then followed up by pointing out Xavier's dropping defensive ranking, the same ol' "Defense being tied to offense" answer came up with zero explanation.
Finally, when Byron asked what adjustments can fans expect to see Wednesday, Jonas' answer was "Oh, that's something in the saddlebag". He also said that their practices this week have been fantastic. Uh, Ok, fair, but we'd better see something Wednesday.

Now Steele has avoided answering questions about his team's trash performances twice since that Marquette debacle. He's skipped out on two occasions to not face the music from actually friendly announcers while shirking his responsibilities under a radio show that he has. At best it's bad form. At worst it's a guy who is clueless and is afraid to show it. Wow.

I'm more inclined to believe we are going to see the same shit starting lineup and the same shit game. There is nothing about Steele right now that leads me to believe the guy has a fucking clue. Prove me wrong Travis

[drudy23]

Ok. WTF.

Steele was not "available" for his Coaches Show" tonight, because he was "out recruiting"! How amazingly convenient!! I know there was an event up in Kettering- Flying to the Hoop but there is no one on any of the teams that were playing this afternoon/evening that Xavier is even remotely linked to. Certainly no one that an Assistant couldn't have scouted. Instead he sent Jonas Hayes to deflect questions from Joe and Byron. And boy did he.
Jonas made the comment that they were working in practice to correct the "mistakes made in the Marquette game". When Byron asked him a direct question as to what those mistakes were, Jonas deflected by saying "Oh, there were so many I can't name them all" . When Joe asked him about the rebounding Jonas just said "We have to get better" then said something about the perimeter guards not boxing out on long rebounds. Maybe, but that's another deflection answer, especially when it doesn't address why WE can't offensively rebound. Then, when Byron tried to ask him about our offensive woes, then followed up by pointing out Xavier's dropping defensive ranking, the same ol' "Defense being tied to offense" answer came up with zero explanation.
Finally, when Byron asked what adjustments can fans expect to see Wednesday, Jonas' answer was "Oh, that's something in the saddlebag". He also said that their practices this week have been fantastic. Uh, Ok, fair, but we'd better see something Wednesday.

Now Steele has avoided answering questions about his team's trash performances twice since that Marquette debacle. He's skipped out on two occasions to not face the music from actually friendly announcers while shirking his responsibilities under a radio show that he has. At best it's bad form. At worst it's a guy who is clueless and is afraid to show it. Wow.

I know some don't think this is a big deal, but it's major red flags if you ask me. You don't run and hide when times get tough, and this sure seems like running and hiding.

[XUBob]

Guys, I know we are all upset at the situation right now, and I hate it when the head coach doesn’t come out post game. I consider that a job responsibility, but, as one who goes to the coaches show almost every week, Chris missed it several times while out recruiting. While the optics of this one aren’t good I think it’s a stretch to assume it was a duck and run.

[xavierj]

Guys, I know we are all upset at the situation right now, and I hate it when the head coach doesn’t come out post game. I consider that a job responsibility, but, as one who goes to the coaches show almost every week, Chris missed it several times while out recruiting. While the optics of this one aren’t good I think it’s a stretch too assume it was a duck and run.

I agree with this. Coaches miss coaches shows sometimes. I was in Louisville a couple of weeks ago and Chris missed that one to because he was recruiting. To be honest if a coach needs to go see a recruit I would rather have him do that than do a coaches show. And I get he didn’t do the radio after last game but did face the music in front of the cameras and the recorders. Maybe he felt his players needed to hear him more than the fans did. We will see if any progress is made Wednesday. That’s all that matters.

[Masterofreality]

Guys, I know we are all upset at the situation right now, and I hate it when the head coach doesn’t come out post game. I consider that a job responsibility, but, as one who goes to the coaches show almost every week, Chris missed it several times while out recruiting. While the optics of this one aren’t good I think it’s a stretch to assume it was a duck and run.

Bob, you know I love ya Brother and it was great to see you at the Creighton game. There is no better or dedicated Xavier fan than “Bob from Finneytown”.
But I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that it’s not coincidence that your Head Coach is avoiding answering legitimate questions from Xavier commentators and fans after 3 of the most miserable performances we’ve seen from a veteran X team for a long time. This is not fine.
We will see what occurs Wednesday, but suffice to say that Steele is garnering no sympathy right about now.

[Masterofreality]

Guys, I know we are all upset at the situation right now, and I hate it when the head coach doesn’t come out post game. I consider that a job responsibility, but, as one who goes to the coaches show almost every week, Chris missed it several times while out recruiting. While the optics of this one aren’t good I think it’s a stretch to assume it was a duck and run.

Bob, you know I love ya Brother and it was great to see you at the Creighton game. There is no better or dedicated Xavier fan than “Bob from Finneytown”.
But I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that it’s not coincidence that your Head Coach is avoiding answering legitimate questions from Xavier commentators and fans after 3 of the most miserable performances we’ve seen from a veteran X team for a long time. This is not fine.
We will see what occurs Wednesday, but suffice to say that Steele is garnering no sympathy right about now.

[X-band '01]

Well, he wasn't allowed to cross-examine witnesses before this sham of an impeach-

Oh wait, wrong thread. Carry on.

[XUGRAD80]

I’m starting to believe that MOR’s account has been hacked and whomever has been posting on this thread as MOR is an imposter. Usually MOR comes across as reasonable and even handed, and I have agreed with MOR 99% of the time, but I’ve got to start wondering why the sudden change? I remember that there were a couple of posters that had personal vendettas against CM, stemming from having their after lunch snacks stolen back in preschool I think, but MOR....why the anger and mistrust aimed at Travis? That’s not like the MOR we’ve all come to love and respect in the past.

If they lay another egg on Wednesday I think this board is gong to self destruct.

[paulxu]

I think we may be a little spoiled from our success over the past two coaches.
Coach K took over Duke two years after they played in the NC game.
He went to the NIT the first year with a losing conference record.
In years 2 and 3 he had losing seasons, and conference records...and no post season play.

Maybe we should give coach Steele a little time.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

If they lay another egg on Wednesday I think this board is gong to self destruct.

First I said the Seton Hall game (after losing, yet again, at Nova) was big. Then, after S.H. trounced us at Cintas, I thought the Creighton game was big because it would show whether we can withstand a somewhat unusual home butt kicking. Then, after our no-show against Creighton, I thought the Marquette game would be an important sign as to whether we could turn the season around with a big road win. Now, its the Georgetown game because the boys are clearly in a somewhat unprecedented slump and Coach Steele is starting to lose the Board. Not that what we say on this board matters so much to non-posters and non-readers but for most of the previous 18 months, Steele has enjoyed our, pretty much, full support.

Steele needs + deserves more time. But, a negative spin has developed on his performance and this team and once that is in play, there is a tendency to view every event in a manner consistent with that downward direction. Not saying the negative interpretations are wrong because I question the recent performance also. But.................

Accordingly, I think tomorrow's game may, in fact, be the BIG game of this season. Another poor performance, especially without any line-up or in game adjustments, and this board will be in full meltdown. If that occurs, it will make for interesting reading. But, the spillover cannot be good for the program.

[XUBob]

MOR, you and I are essentially on the same page. I get infuriated when coaches duck post game shows, but, I think the coaches show Is a different animal. I would venture to guess this was planned in advance to see certain players. I’m going to miss Wed. Night, I’ll be at the visitation of a close friend unfortunately. I hope to see changes made and improved play. I as everyone else wants Travis to be the right guy but only time and results will tell.

[Masterofreality]

MOR, you and I are essentially on the same page. I get infuriated when coaches duck post game shows, but, I think the coaches show Is a different animal. I would venture to guess this was planned in advance to see certain players. I’m going to miss Wed. Night, I’ll be at the visitation of a close friend unfortunately. I hope to see changes made and improved play. I as everyone else wants Travis to be the right guy but only time and results will tell.

Oh, trust me Bob!! I WANT so badly for Travis to be the right guy, but I’d be going against my name if I didn’t express concern over this behavior after 3 horrible losses. I’m actually more upset at missing the Coaches Show because I feel he’s ducking the fans too.We would have been sneering and laughing our asses off if Cronin pulled this stuff. It just strikes me as very odd that in the middle of January, when we have already signed 3 players for next year that he couldn’t make a Coaches Show under the guise of recruiting when the last 4 teams who were playing in Kettering had zero players connected to our prospects. There were and will be plenty of recruiting chances. Meanwhile X Nation awaits answers.

[nuts4xu]

Ok. WTF.

Steele was not "available" for his Coaches Show" tonight, because he was "out recruiting"! How amazingly convenient!! I know there was an event up in Kettering- Flying to the Hoop but there is no one on any of the teams that were playing this afternoon/evening that Xavier is even remotely linked to. Certainly no one that an Assistant couldn't have scouted. Instead he sent Jonas Hayes to deflect questions from Joe and Byron. And boy did he.
Jonas made the comment that they were working in practice to correct the "mistakes made in the Marquette game". When Byron asked him a direct question as to what those mistakes were, Jonas deflected by saying "Oh, there were so many I can't name them all" . When Joe asked him about the rebounding Jonas just said "We have to get better" then said something about the perimeter guards not boxing out on long rebounds. Maybe, but that's another deflection answer, especially when it doesn't address why WE can't offensively rebound. Then, when Byron tried to ask him about our offensive woes, then followed up by pointing out Xavier's dropping defensive ranking, the same ol' "Defense being tied to offense" answer came up with zero explanation.
Finally, when Byron asked what adjustments can fans expect to see Wednesday, Jonas' answer was "Oh, that's something in the saddlebag". He also said that their practices this week have been fantastic. Uh, Ok, fair, but we'd better see something Wednesday.

Now Steele has avoided answering questions about his team's trash performances twice since that Marquette debacle. He's skipped out on two occasions to not face the music from actually friendly announcers while shirking his responsibilities under a radio show that he has. At best it's bad form. At worst it's a guy who is clueless and is afraid to show it. Wow.

Hayes said on the coaches show that Steele will be "evaluating" and not speaking with the recruits he went to see. Byron made it sound like it's a bit of a dead period in recruiting, and Hayes confirmed Steele won't be sitting down with anyone. He was merely going to show face, from what I gathered. It is a bad look right now, and hope its just optics. We have heard Steele say on many occasions what a good week of practice they had, only to see them play poorly in game situations.

[Muskie4106]

I’m starting to believe that MOR’s account has been hacked and whomever has been posting on this thread as MOR is an imposter. Usually MOR comes across as reasonable and even handed, and I have agreed with MOR 99% of the time, but I’ve got to start wondering why the sudden change? I remember that there were a couple of posters that had personal vendettas against CM, stemming from having their after lunch snacks stolen back in preschool I think, but MOR....why the anger and mistrust aimed at Travis? That’s not like the MOR we’ve all come to love and respect in the past.

If they lay another egg on Wednesday I think this board is gong to self destruct.
self destructing seems to already been started!

[Masterofreality]

Hayes said on the coaches show that Steele will be "evaluating" and not speaking with the recruits he went to see. Byron made it sound like it's a bit of a dead period in recruiting, and Hayes confirmed Steele won't be sitting down with anyone. He was merely going to show face, from what I gathered. It is a bad look right now, and hope its just optics. We have heard Steele say on many occasions what a good week of practice they had, only to see them play poorly in game situations.

Exactly. A dead period. Lots of other chances to “evaluate”

[IM4X]

IÂ’m starting to believe that MORÂ’s account has been hacked and whomever has been posting on this thread as MOR is an imposter. Usually MOR comes across as reasonable and even handed, and I have agreed with MOR 99% of the time, but IÂ’ve got to start wondering why the sudden change? I remember that there were a couple of posters that had personal vendettas against CM, stemming from having their after lunch snacks stolen back in preschool I think, but MOR....why the anger and mistrust aimed at Travis? ThatÂ’s not like the MOR weÂ’ve all come to love and respect in the past.

If they lay another egg on Wednesday I think this board is gong to self destruct.

Hey- there are a lot of us feeling what MOR is feeling. There is no reason for this team to be as crappy as they are. We can all tell each other the finger ought to be pointed at this player or that situation, but the reality is that the buck must stop with the head coach. Had this been the first year for Travis, it would be a little easier to witness him being out of touch with his players this far into the season (particularly after hearing how great the chemistry supposedly was earlier in the season).

The players often don’t look like they know what they are supposed to do on offense other than pass it around on the perimeter until one of our struggling shooters is left open from 3 and decides to give in to the low percentage shot. Why do our players rarely drive even if there is an open lane? Why are we not concerned with drawing contact and getting to the line more? Not conferenced about getting opponents key players into foul trouble? How many fewer foul shots are we attempting per game this year than we did two or three years ago? What is the specific strategy we have been using to ensure we end up with more rebounds?

What plays are being run to ensure our best 3 point shooter (Scruggs) is getting the most open looks? Why are so many 3s allowed to be taken when so many players are not good at shooting them? Why has Steele repeatedly stated that he doesn’t care about three point shooting and players taking and missing so many shots? Why is the one thing that Steele says is the teams strength (the defense) no longer even a strength? What exactly are his assistants specialty? Sure “this one one works more with the bigs and that one with the guards,” but what specific skills and strategies are they really bringing to the table?

Why again are we redshirting a 6’11” player whose height and athleticism might have given (and still might be giving) the team another option that might help with rebounding (a big issue) and blocking (since other bigs are having floaters go just over their outstretched hands)? One might buy Steele’s “play it safe and save Miles for next year” thinking if the three bigs currently playing were dominating and Ramsey was actually healthy. But since that is not the case, why not try Jones and Miles on the court together (to see if there is a similar chemistry like Jones had with Hankins on the floor)? And, speaking of Jones, why is Steele not calling on him as a senior leader to do more to step up and help get the team pissed off and make it clear that it is now or never if they want to make the tournament? Or is part of the problem that the coach is simply telling them they need to play better but not actually showing them how by actually setting them up for success with specific plays that play to each player’s strength - plays that will give the team an edge while exploiting their opponents weaknesses (the way other teams have exploited ours).

Most (if not all) of us were thrilled when Steele was introduced as the new head coach. Most of us (if not all) love his friendly and approachable demeanor. It is a refreshing change from our previous coach who was known to come across grumpy, defensive and a frankly a real prick at times when the media asked questions that he didn’t feel like answering. At least we don’t get any of that garbage with Travis. But one must wonder if that same “nice guy” attitude Steele has, gets in the way at times. No, he shouldn’t throw players under the bus, but he does need to get tough with players and make sure they following his game plan (assuming he has one completely laid out). Steele seems to answer some questions well during press conferences while sidestepping others (or at least he has denied certain real issues were in fact real issues).

We now are finally hearing Steele sound a little tougher, saying “changes will be made” (even if it is weeks after many of us had expected it). We will wait to see what those long-overdue changes are. We will see if he is able to get players to buy into those changes and if they are in fact coarse-correcting changes that better takes advantage of individual player’s strengths... that leads to better team chemistry... that results in the team running more effective plays... that leads to more drives and drawing more fouls... that leads to more rebounds... taking smarter shots... defending better on defense... turning the ball over less... creating more steals... making more free throws... getting consistently better effort... and getting back to winning games.

No one is expecting a miraculous change over night. Seeing some improvements and a win at Georgetown would be a good start.

[XU 87]

Exactly. A dead period. Lots of other chances to “evaluate”

Are you really arguing that he should have skipped a recruiting trip so he could appear on his radio show?

What's happened to you? You used to be one of the sane voices on this board.

[BandDad]

Are you really arguing that he should have skipped a recruiting trip so he could appear on his radio show?

What's happened to you? You used to be one of the sane voices on this board.

Agreed. So we would rather have the head coach do one of 20 coaches show rather than go on a preplanned recruiting trip that could grease the wheels for a future great recruit. A lot of these recruiting trips is meeting with coaches, handlers, etc. rather than just meeting with the recruits themselves.

How many fans listen to or attend the coaches show in a given week? Can't be all that many. I think the coach should be focused on the core task and not have to worry about soothing a handful of fans egos by trying to give them answers the probably aren't going to agree with anyway.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

I think we may be a little spoiled from our success over the past two coaches.
Coach K took over Duke two years after they played in the NC game.
He went to the NIT the first year with a losing conference record.
In years 2 and 3 he had losing seasons, and conference records...and no post season play.

Maybe we should give coach Steele a little time.

Yeah, so little has changed in College Basketball / Recruiting / AAU in 40 years, why not follow that playbook exactly?

Xavier, as a University, is 100% dependent on College Basketball on nearly every front, they don't have the opportunity to take the long-tail approach.

[Muskie in dayton]

Are you really arguing that he should have skipped a recruiting trip so he could appear on his radio show?

What's happened to you? You used to be one of the sane voices on this board.

They’re even making fun of MOR on “the other Xavier Board”. As if that means anything.

[AviatorX]

Steele is speaking to the media today, so perhaps he is not running and hiding after all.

[Masterofreality]

They’re even making fun of MOR on “the other Xavier Board”. As if that means anything.

Like I care. Show me a win tomorrow night Travis.
The preseason Top 25 Musketeers have underperformed all year long.
Show me something.

[xeus]

Steele is speaking to the media today, so perhaps he is not running and hiding after all.

Or, more likely, he read the board, had a reflection session, and thought, "Damn. MOR is right."

[muskiefan82]

Or, more likely, he read the board, had a reflection session, and thought, "Damn. MOR is right."

Then the world really is ending....:lmao:

[Masterofreality]

Are you really arguing that he should have skipped a recruiting trip so he could appear on his radio show?

What's happened to you? You used to be one of the sane voices on this board.

A "recruiting trip" all the way to Kettering...during a dead period...to "evaluate". Like he didn't have an entire weekend to "evaluate". Like he didn't have half of Monday to "evaluate"? Like he can't get on a charter plane on an off day to "evaluate". As I said. No one who was playing at Flying to the Hoop on Monday evening is anywhere near on Xavier's radar. It's 45 minutes from Kettering to the radio show. All this after his team has stunk it up for the last 3 games, been barely passable for the 15 games before that, and he had just skipped a post game radio show after a horrible performance. I'm saying the guy is not answering legit questions about his performance, and that is what he is paid handsomely to do.

I want excellence, and we're not getting it. If that's insane, then call me Howard Hughes.

[Masterofreality]

Hey- there are a lot of us feeling what MOR is feeling. There is no reason for this team to be as crappy as they are. We can all tell each other the finger ought to be pointed at this player or that situation, but the reality is that the buck must stop with the head coach. Had this been the first year for Travis, it would be a little easier to witness him being out of touch with his players this far into the season (particularly after hearing how great the chemistry supposedly was earlier in the season).

The players often don’t look like they know what they are supposed to do on offense other than pass it around on the perimeter until one of our struggling shooters is left open from 3 and decides to give in to the low percentage shot. Why do our players rarely drive even if there is an open lane? Why are we not concerned with drawing contact and getting to the line more? Not conferenced about getting opponents key players into foul trouble? How many fewer foul shots are we attempting per game this year than we did two or three years ago? What is the specific strategy we have been using to ensure we end up with more rebounds?

What plays are being run to ensure our best 3 point shooter (Scruggs) is getting the most open looks? Why are so many 3s allowed to be taken when so many players are not good at shooting them? Why has Steele repeatedly stated that he doesn’t care about three point shooting and players taking and missing so many shots? Why is the one thing that Steele says is the teams strength (the defense) no longer even a strength? What exactly are his assistants specialty? Sure “this one one works more with the bigs and that one with the guards,” but what specific skills and strategies are they really bringing to the table?

Why again are we redshirting a 6’11” player whose height and athleticism might have given (and still might be giving) the team another option that might help with rebounding (a big issue) and blocking (since other bigs are having floaters go just over their outstretched hands)? One might buy Steele’s “play it safe and save Miles for next year” thinking if the three bigs currently playing were dominating and Ramsey was actually healthy. But since that is not the case, why not try Jones and Miles on the court together (to see if there is a similar chemistry like Jones had with Hankins on the floor)? And, speaking of Jones, why is Steele not calling on him as a senior leader to do more to step up and help get the team pissed off and make it clear that it is now or never if they want to make the tournament? Or is part of the problem that the coach is simply telling them they need to play better but not actually showing them how by actually setting them up for success with specific plays that play to each player’s strength - plays that will give the team an edge while exploiting their opponents weaknesses (the way other teams have exploited ours).

Most (if not all) of us were thrilled when Steele was introduced as the new head coach. Most of us (if not all) love his friendly and approachable demeanor. It is a refreshing change from our previous coach who was known to come across grumpy, defensive and a frankly a real prick at times when the media asked questions that he didn’t feel like answering. At least we don’t get any of that garbage with Travis. But one must wonder if that same “nice guy” attitude Steele has, gets in the way at times. No, he shouldn’t throw players under the bus, but he does need to get tough with players and make sure they following his game plan (assuming he has one completely laid out). Steele seems to answer some questions well during press conferences while sidestepping others (or at least he has denied certain real issues were in fact real issues).

We now are finally hearing Steele sound a little tougher, saying “changes will be made” (even if it is weeks after many of us had expected it). We will wait to see what those long-overdue changes are. We will see if he is able to get players to buy into those changes and if they are in fact coarse-correcting changes that better takes advantage of individual player’s strengths... that leads to better team chemistry... that results in the team running more effective plays... that leads to more drives and drawing more fouls... that leads to more rebounds... taking smarter shots... defending better on defense... turning the ball over less... creating more steals... making more free throws... getting consistently better effort... and getting back to winning games.

No one is expecting a miraculous change over night. Seeing some improvements and a win at Georgetown would be a good start.

And this is a great summary post!! Thanks very much IM4X!!

Public props!!

[Masterofreality]

Or, more likely, he read the board, had a reflection session, and thought, "Damn. MOR is right."

If he had a "Reflection Session", apparently it wasn't offensive in nature. When Shannon Russell asked him what changes we might see tomorrow, he said:
"We've competed a lot since the Marquette game, but your going to see a big difference hopefully on the defensive end. You'd better see a big difference on the defensive end and on the backboard".

Thanks for that answer Travis Cronin.

Welp, we'll see, but what about the anemic offense, Travis? I know you don't want to give any secrets, but, ya know, our defense is practicing against our offense. I'm sure that is really a test.

[scoscox]

A "recruiting trip" all the way to Kettering...during a dead period...to "evaluate". Like he didn't have an entire weekend to "evaluate". Like he didn't have half of Monday to "evaluate"? Like he can't get on a charter plane on an off day to "evaluate". As I said. No one who was playing at Flying to the Hoop on Monday evening is anywhere near on Xavier's radar. It's 45 minutes from Kettering to the radio show. All this after his team has stunk it up for the last 3 games, been barely passable for the 15 games before that, and he had just skipped a post game radio show after a horrible performance. I'm saying the guy is not answering legit questions about his performance, and that is what he is paid handsomely to do.

I want excellence, and we're not getting it. If that's insane, then call me Howard Hughes.

there are a bunch of guys at that event that we're recruiting. some of them very high priority. malaki branham, paul mcmillan etc.

[Masterofreality]

there are a bunch of guys at that event that we're recruiting. some of them very high priority. malaki branham, paul mcmillan etc.

Did they play Monday night? The answer is NO. Woodward played Saturday. St. V played Sunday.
All the players we are interested in were done before 3:00 on Monday. There was zero reason for Steele to be there after that.
And to my knowledge, no one else that needed to be seen was even playing Monday afternoon/evening anywhere.

[XUGRAD80]

It’s my OPINION that unless Xavier suddenly found some consistently good outside shooters the offense is not going to show any remarkable renaissance. I don’t BELIEVE that it’s a case of the wrong person shooting, or people not getting open. NOBODY on the team has been a CONSISTENT threat to make the three point shot. EVERY player has laid their fair share of bricks and while several of the players have gotten hot for a game or a stretch, none of them can be counted on to sink the shot consistently enough to build an offense around them taking that shot.

Could be that Steele sees the same thing and therefore is concentrated on the defensive creating some offense. Thus his comments about defense.

Xavier has lost several supposed outside shooting threats over the last couple of years.....Curtis, Kennedy, Bishop, Ridder, all come to mind. KyKy hasn’t developed into a consistent outside threat. Upperclassmen haven’t developed their outside game as we had hoped and expected they would.

The recruiting “experts” on several sites have said this exact same thing and pointed out that Xavier has been targeting shooters in its recruiting for 2020 and 2021. Lets hope that those coming in next year provide some relief and help.

[X-band '01]

If he had a "Reflection Session", apparently it wasn't offensive in nature. When Shannon Russell asked him what changes we might see tomorrow, he said:
"We've competed a lot since the Marquette game, but you're going to see a big difference hopefully on the defensive end. You'd better see a big difference on the defensive end and on the backboard.

My name is Travis Steele, and I approved this message"

Thanks for that answer Travis Cronin.

Welp, we'll see, but what about the anemic offense, Travis? I know you don't want to give any secrets, but, ya know, our defense is practicing against our offense. I'm sure that is really a test.

Fixed that for you.

[AviatorX]

Did they play Monday night? The answer is NO. Woodward played Saturday. St. V played Sunday.
All the players we are interested in were done before 3:00 on Monday. There was zero reason for Steele to be there after that.
And to my knowledge, no one else that needed to be seen was even playing Monday afternoon/evening anywhere.

I'm going to defer to Travis Steele on recruiting. That's the one area where you have to be intentionally dense to not give him the benefit of the doubt based on results so far. Do we even know he was at Flyin to the Hoop?

[Masterofreality]

It’s my OPINION that unless Xavier suddenly found some consistently good outside shooters the offense is not going to show any remarkable renaissance. I don’t BELIEVE that it’s a case of the wrong person shooting, or people not getting open. NOBODY on the team has been a CONSISTENT threat to make the three point shot.....Xavier has lost several supposed outside shooting threats over the last couple of years.....

Meanwhile, Elias Harden, who finally left because he wasn't getting enough of playing time, is basically shooting the same percentage from three-34%-as our second best 3 point shooter (KyKy) behind Paul Scruggs 37.5% (not counting Freemantle). Bishop, who was allegedly a fantastic 3 point shooter, rotted on the bench. Bishop never got much of a chance to get his freshman legs under him before he was relegated to oblivion.
I don't think that sends a great message.

[Masterofreality]

I'm going to defer to Travis Steele on recruiting. That's the one area where you have to be intentionally dense to not give him the benefit of the doubt based on results so far. Do we even know he was at Flyin to the Hoop?

Open your ears, finger pointer. Hayes said that on the Coaches Show Monday night.
I'm sure you defer to Travis on his garbage answers to this team's performance too. Way to accept mediocrity.
Who's dense?

[AviatorX]

Open your ears, finger pointer. Hayes said that on the Coaches Show Monday night.
Who's dense?

You are. Feel free to continue harping on media appearances and dissecting press conference sound bites. I'm going to focus on win/loss record and bringing talent into the program, aka the only two things that matter (outside of extreme off the court issues).

[XU 87]

A "recruiting trip" all the way to Kettering...during a dead period...to "evaluate". Like he didn't have an entire weekend to "evaluate". Like he didn't have half of Monday to "evaluate"? Like he can't get on a charter plane on an off day to "evaluate". As I said. No one who was playing at Flying to the Hoop on Monday evening is anywhere near on Xavier's radar. It's 45 minutes from Kettering to the radio show. All this after his team has stunk it up for the last 3 games, been barely passable for the 15 games before that, and he had just skipped a post game radio show after a horrible performance. I'm saying the guy is not answering legit questions about his performance, and that is what he is paid handsomely to do.

I want excellence, and we're not getting it. If that's insane, then call me Howard Hughes.

First you say that Collier at Butler knew ahead of time that Miller was going to suck, forced Miller to hire Holtman as a result, and then fired Miller a few weeks before the season because Miller sucked, and then Collier made up the entire thing about Miller's health issues.

Now you're saying that Travis really didn't need to go to a huge high school tournament just up the road, where several guys we are recruiting are playing in, but only went to avoid his Monday one hour radio show?

C'mon MOR, this is crazy talk.

I will add one more thing- maybe now is a good time to show some support for our coach, rather than continually bashing him because we we're on a three game losing streak. Maybe we should all go back to MM and read all the posts written about Thad Matta before the Run. To many, Matta was an incompetent fool who couldn't coach and previously won only because he was fortunate to have David West. Then when Matta left, these same people were like, "I can't believe he left."

[Masterofreality]

You are. Feel free to continue harping on media appearances and dissecting press conference sound bites. I'm going to focus on win/loss record and bringing talent into the program, aka the only two things that matter (outside of extreme off the court issues).

Oh, yeah. You keep buying in to a two hour video bite of game trash, like vs Marquette, Creighton and Seton Hall. THAT is what I'm dissecting, with the press conferences just the ancillary continuation (when he has the balls to show up) of that trash. I'm looking for a coach with some juice to tell me what the hell he's going to do to fix obvious deficiencies that have been repeated and occurring all year.
This team is underperforming badly and looks anemic vs well coached teams. THAT is the issue. You can focus on that.
By the way, just don't forget about the talent he brings in, then blows out.

[X-band '01]

You are. Feel free to continue harping on media appearances and dissecting press conference sound bites. I'm going to focus on win/loss record and bringing talent into the program, aka the only two things that matter (outside of extreme off the court issues).

Which is precisely the problem the way this season is playing out. Xavier hasn't beaten anyone yet that is an NCAA Tournament team (St. John's and TCU are the closest they've come). Losing to a non-tournament team like Wake Forest started the slide and has never been rectified.

You honestly expect fans like MOR to be saying "This is fine" after the team literally quit at a crossroads like the Marquette game? If Xavier wets the bed against Georgetown, I would honestly like to hear the next game we can expect to hear "That's a win" looking at the schedule. It won't exist.

[scoscox]

Did they play Monday night? The answer is NO. Woodward played Saturday. St. V played Sunday.
All the players we are interested in were done before 3:00 on Monday. There was zero reason for Steele to be there after that.
And to my knowledge, no one else that needed to be seen was even playing Monday afternoon/evening anywhere.

we're recruiting a kid on taft. rayvon griffith. they played monday night.

[AviatorX]

Which is precisely the problem the way this season is playing out. Xavier hasn't beaten anyone yet that is an NCAA Tournament team (St. John's and TCU are the closest they've come). Losing to a non-tournament team like Wake Forest started the slide and has never been rectified.

You honestly expect fans like MOR to be saying "This is fine" after the team literally quit at a crossroads like the Marquette game? If Xavier wets the bed against Georgetown, I would honestly like to hear the next game we can expect to hear "That's a win" looking at the schedule. It won't exist.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm not going to push back on criticism of the team. They have sucked.

MOR has littered this thread with ridiculous Butler conspiracy theories and complaints about Steele "dodging" the media (and when Steele does comment, he's got a nitpick ready). I find it pretty annoying and misguided, and I've made that clear. Nothing more to it and I don't expect him to stop.

[XU 87]

Meanwhile, Elias Harden, who finally left because he wasn't getting enough of playing time, is basically shooting the same percentage from three-34%-as our second best 3 point shooter (KyKy) behind Paul Scruggs 37.5% (not counting Freemantle). Bishop, who was allegedly a fantastic 3 point shooter, rotted on the bench. Bishop never got much of a chance to get his freshman legs under him before he was relegated to oblivion.
I don't think that sends a great message.

Are you now arguing that Bishop and his 17% shooting percentage (and 30% from the line) should have received more PT, particularly when Kyky came back?

Elias Harden is averaging 7 points a game for Jacksonville State and is shooting 40% from the field. Are you saying that Travis screwed up by not playing him more at X?

When you coached, was your team motto, "You will get a lot of playing time, regardless of how you produce when you play?"

[XUGRAD80]

Meanwhile, Elias Harden, who finally left because he wasn't getting enough of playing time, is basically shooting the same percentage from three-34%-as our second best 3 point shooter (KyKy) behind Paul Scruggs 37.5% (not counting Freemantle). Bishop, who was allegedly a fantastic 3 point shooter, rotted on the bench. Bishop never got much of a chance to get his freshman legs under him before he was relegated to oblivion.
I don't think that sends a great message.

Man you’ve got some really great eyesight if you can see how these guys play in practice all the way from Cleveland. LOL. Could it be, since neither Harden or Bishop showed much in the games, when they got into them, that what we did see of them was what they really are? And on the subject of Scrugg’s, let me enlighten you to that fact that while he has had a game where he went 3-3, and another game where he went 1-1, he has also had 2 games where he went 2-7, a 3-8 game, a 2-6 game, a 1-4 game, and and 0-1 game too....hardly CONSISTENT. Neither Bishop or Harden (or anyone else) has shown any consistency in the games. I’m willing to bet they haven’t shown it in practice either. But that’s just a guess. I’m much closer than you are, but I still can’t see what happens in practice......NONE of us can.

[X-band '01]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm not going to push back on criticism of the team. They have sucked.

MOR has littered this thread with ridiculous Butler conspiracy theories and complaints about Steele "dodging" the media (and when Steele does comment, he's got a nitpick ready). I find it pretty annoying and misguided, and I've made that clear. Nothing more to it and I don't expect him to stop.

I'm calling dibs on the "Steele dossier" involving collusion with Butler.

[Masterofreality]

First you say that Collier at Butler knew ahead of time that Miller was going to suck, forced Miller to hire Holtman as a result, and then fired Miller a few weeks before the season because Miller sucked, and then Collier made up the entire thing about Miller's health issues.

Now you're saying that Travis really didn't need to go to a huge high school tournament just up the road, where several guys we are recruiting are playing in, but only went to avoid his Monday one hour radio show?

C'mon MOR, this is crazy talk.

I will add one more thing- maybe now is a good time to show some support for our coach, rather than continually bashing him because we we're on a three game losing streak. Maybe we should all go back to MM and read all the posts written about Thad Matta before the Run. To many, Matta was an incompetent fool who couldn't coach and previously won only because he was fortunate to have David West. Then when Matta left, these same people were like, "I can't believe he left."

I'm telling you that Collier had a backup plan in place. That's it. Neither you or I know for sure, what all the circumstances are, but tell me that it doesn't look odd that a Head Coach who just took his school to its first postseason appearance and had just been given 5 extra years of security via a contract extension just up and leaves for an assistants job at a school where he had zero prior connection? Hmmmm.

NONE of the players that we are recruiting played Monday afternoon/night. The coach contracted for a radio show. Show up.

As to the support. Last year, was an under performance in my view. This year with 4 veteran players, 2 of which played in the Elite 8, is a huge under performance. I need to be shown that he deserves support, and not just because we beat a garbage UC team. This team's offense is a joke compared to well coached teams. Creighton made us look like Clowns in our own building. Support needs to be earned, not given.

[Xville]

If he had a "Reflection Session", apparently it wasn't offensive in nature. When Shannon Russell asked him what changes we might see tomorrow, he said:
"We've competed a lot since the Marquette game, but your going to see a big difference hopefully on the defensive end. You'd better see a big difference on the defensive end and on the backboard".

Thanks for that answer Travis Cronin.

Welp, we'll see, but what about the anemic offense, Travis? I know you don't want to give any secrets, but, ya know, our defense is practicing against our offense. I'm sure that is really a test.

Gross. So what can we expect? The same starting lineup that has been gawd awful for three games and an anemic offense that we have seen all year because Steele refuses to switch up the lineup which any idiot can see needs to be changed.

[Masterofreality]

we're recruiting a kid on taft. rayvon griffith. they played monday night.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Rayvon Griffith is 15 freaking years old, and is in the class of 2023!!!!. Plus he plays at TAFT. Are you actually telling me that an assistant couldn't go and evaluate, take video and bring it back?? Plus the kid can be evaluated by Steele almost at whim!!!
Sorry, but that is a red herring, although congrats on nailing me on the Monday night play thing.

[scoscox]

blaming elias harden or the bishop transfers on steele is a little ridiculous. mack played harden like 10 minutes total as a freshman. steele gave him a lot of run by comparison. bishop also got a pretty decent amount of playing time for a freshman and he played beyond terribly. steele kept him on the bench for a couple games and he bolted. that's on him not steele. if bishop had hung around a few more games he'd have gotten more time.

lot of things to criticize him for, but that's not one of them

[XU 87]

I'm telling you that Collier had a backup plan in place. That's it. Neither you or I know for sure, what all the circumstances are, but tell me that it doesn't look odd that a Head Coach who just took his school to its first postseason appearance and had just been given 5 extra years of security via a contract extension just up and leaves for an assistants job at a school where he had zero prior connection? Hmmmm.

NONE of the players that we are recruiting played Monday afternoon/night. The coach contracted for a radio show. Show up.

As to the support. Last year, was an under performance in my view. This year with 4 veteran players, 2 of which played in the Elite 8, is a huge under performance. I need to be shown that he deserves support, and not just because we beat a garbage UC team. This team's offense is a joke compared to well coached teams. Creighton made us look like Clowns in our own building. Support needs to be earned, not given.

Your first paragraph is complete fantasy.

Since you seem to know so much, please let us know 1) where Travis actually was on Monday and 2) we would like a complete list of every player in the Dayton tourney so you can support your statement that "X isn't recruiting anyone in that tourney". (I think there are about 400 kids playing in the tourney.)

So "support is earned, not given." What does that mean? You don't support X teams until they've "earned" your support?

[Masterofreality]

Man you’ve got some really great eyesight if you can see how these guys play in practice all the way from Cleveland. LOL. Could it be, since neither Harden or Bishop showed much in the games, when they got into them, that what we did see of them was what they really are? .

Harden was the second best three point shooter last year for guards behind Scruggs, and third behind Scruggs and Welage at 35.3%. That would be second this year overall not counting Free. Yet he could barely see the floor behind Castlin, who couldn't score at all. And now we don't have any shooters. You reap what you sow offensively.

[scoscox]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Rayvon Griffith is 15 freaking years old, and is in the class of 2023!!!!. Plus he plays at TAFT. Are you actually telling me that an assistant couldn't go and evaluate, take video and bring it back?? Plus the kid can be evaluated by Steele almost at whim!!!
Sorry, but that is a red herring, although congrats on nailing me on the Monday night play thing.

an assistant could also do the coaches' show. it's really not a big deal at all. it's not about evaluating him. steele knows if he can play or not. he wants to show his face at a big event for the kid. that's how recruiting works. you come to see a kid play and he knows you're serious about him. this is the least of my concerns with steele. really

this is one of, if not the biggest aau tournament in ohio. if we want to recruit the area, it's a good idea for steele to be there. again, this is the most trivial critique of him

[Masterofreality]

Your first paragraph is complete fantasy. Explain how Holtmann left a great secure gig at GWebb for an Asst. Job, please

Since you seem to know so much, please let us know 1) where Travis actually was on Monday Hayes said Kettering- Flying to the Hoop on the Coaches Show Monday night that I listened to. Did You?
and 2) we would like a complete list of every player in the Dayton tourney so you can support your statement that X isn't recruiting anyone in that tourney". See my answers above about Monday afternoon/evening (I think there are about 400 kids playing in the tourney.)

So "support is earned, not given." What does that mean? You don't support X teams until they've "earned" your support? I pay my contributions. I have my Big East Tourney Tickets. I support X teams. I support Melanie Moore even though she's had a tough year because I can see what she's trying to install. Steele has not "earned" any support from me for the job he's doing. Show me something.

If and when Travis turns things around, I think you will owe him an apology for all this nonsense you keep writing about him.

Your answers are in bold, Counselor.

[Masterofreality]

an assistant could also do the coaches' show. it's really not a big deal at all. it's not about evaluating him. steele knows if he can play or not. he wants to show his face at a big event for the kid. that's how recruiting works. you come to see a kid play and he knows you're serious about him. this is the least of my concerns with steele. really

this is one of, if not the biggest aau tournament in ohio. if we want to recruit the area, it's a good idea for steele to be there. again, this is the most trivial critique of him

It's a dead period. Coaches can't interact. If the kid is looking in the stands to see who's watching him instead of concentrating on the game, that's a mess. Plus, he's a frosh!

[XU 87]

Your answers are in bold, Counselor.

And you're dead wrong that X isn't recruiting anyone who is playing in the Fling to the Hoops tourney.

FWIW- someone just PM'd me and wanted to know if Skyhops from the MM stole your password and is posting as you? That can be the only explanation.

[Masterofreality]

blaming elias harden or the bishop transfers on steele is a little ridiculous. mack played harden like 10 minutes total as a freshman. steele gave him a lot of run by comparison. bishop also got a pretty decent amount of playing time for a freshman and he played beyond terribly. steele kept him on the bench for a couple games and he bolted. that's on him not steele. if bishop had hung around a few more games he'd have gotten more time.

lot of things to criticize him for, but that's not one of them

We have no shooters. That's something to criticize in today's game where shooting is imperative.

[XU 87]

Harden was the second best three point shooter last year for guards behind Scruggs, and third behind Scruggs and Welage at 35.3%. That would be second this year overall not counting Free. Yet he could barely see the floor behind Castlin, who couldn't score at all. And now we don't have any shooters. You reap what you sow offensively.

What would Harden's 7 ppg and 40% shooting at Jacksonville State translate to X this year? 4 ppg and 30% shooting?

I will add, I don't think anyone on this board thinks Travis has done a good job this year, and I think most/all would agree that he's done a lousy job the last three games, but you're going WAAAAYY overboard on your criticisms. For example, arguing that he should have played Harden or Bishop isn't a good argument and makes it seem like you're desperate to find anything whatsoever to complain about.

I think you need a reflection session.

[Masterofreality]

And you're dead wrong that X isn't recruiting anyone who is playing in the Fling to the Hoops tourney. I didn't say that. Did you see my answers on Branham & McMillian? They didn't play MONDAY (Coaches Show day) at all. The only one who did was Griffith- a 2023 kid who can be seen any time. He couldn't even be interacted with.

FWIW- someone just PM'd me and wanted to know if Skyhops from the MM stole your password and is posting as you? That can be the only explanation.

Again above

[scoscox]

It's a dead period. Coaches can't interact. If the kid is looking in the stands to see who's watching him instead of concentrating on the game, that's a mess. Plus, he's a frosh!

i mean, that's what happens. kids do that. travis going to this event is more important than the coaches' show. almost anything is more important than the coaches' show. seriously. the same person calls in every week and is the only person who ever asks a question. maybe 100 people listen. i'm glad travis is out recruiting

[XU 87]

Again above

Skyhops, is that you? What did you do with MOR?

[Masterofreality]

What would his 7 ppg and 40% shooting at Jacksonville State translate to X this year? 4 ppg and 30% shooting?

Better than Bryce Moore, and we're short on guards now.

[Masterofreality]

Skyhops, is that you? What did you do with MOR?

Just ignore the answers. Whatever.

[Masterofreality]

i mean, that's what happens. kids do that

If a kid did that on a team I coached, he's having a long meeting with Mr. Pine. Unacceptable answer.

[XU 87]

If a kid did that on a team I coached, he's having a long meeting with Mr. Pine. Unacceptable answer.

So you would bench a kid for looking into the stands, but the kid who shoots 17% from the field deserves more playing time, provided he doesn't look into the stands?

[scoscox]

If a kid did that on a team I coached, he's having a long meeting with Mr. Pine. Unacceptable answer.

coach a lot of guys that had big east coaches coming to their games? somehow i doubt it. you're not gonna bench your best player because he noticed a D1 coach at his game.

[XU 87]

We have no shooters. That's something to criticize in today's game where shooting is imperative.

I bet everyone on the board agrees with you on this.

[X-band '01]

coach a lot of guys that had big east coaches coming to their games? somehow i doubt it. you're not gonna bench your best player because he noticed a D1 coach at his game.

An average coach, maybe. The good one's won't hesitate to do so for even the most minor of rule breaking.

See Gene Pingatore in Hoop Dreams when William Gates was late to a team meeting. Before a playoff game, no less.

[GoMuskies]

Travis Steele has broken MOR.

[X-band '01]

The Gary Griffin torch is alive and well thanks to MOR and Travis Steele.

[Masterofreality]

I’m just going to leave this discussion like this, especially because I like ‘87 and SCOSCOX. I can even tolerate Aviator, although he’s misguided with glasses too rosy.

I hope that in March, or preferably earlier, my criticisms are wrong, that Steele shepherds this squad to success and I can eat a lot of Crow. I sincerely hope that. But there has to be one helluva lot of improvement across the board, vs Big East teams that are improving a helluva lot across the board too.
Losing to Wake Forest, and almost losing to Mizzou, UConn and Missouri State was horriffic. Beating Clifton Community College was, and is always, expected.
I promise right here right now that if this coach and team turns it around, I’ll still be here and take the heat.. unlike our Coach at this moment.

[scoscox]

I’m just going to leave this discussion like this, especially because I like ‘87 and SCOSCOX.

I hope that in March, or preferably earlier, my criticisms are wrong, that Steele shepherds this squad to success and I can eat a lot of Crow. I sincerely hope that. But there has to be one helluva lot of improvement across the board, vs Big East teams that are improving a helluva lot across the board too.
Losing to Wake Forest, and almost losing to Mizzou, UConn and Missouri State was horriffic. Beating Clifton Community College was, and is always, acceptable. I promise right here right now that if this coach and team turns it around, I’ll still be here and take the heat.. unlike our Coach at this moment.

i agree with you, i just don't think the coaches' show is worth killing him over in this particular instance. if it becomes a trend though after bad losses then i'll have no problem joining the clarion call

[scoscox]

An average coach, maybe. The good one's won't hesitate to do so for even the most minor of rule breaking.

See Gene Pingatore in Hoop Dreams when William Gates was late to a team meeting. Before a playoff game, no less.

being late to a meeting is a lot different than a kid noticing a coach in the stands. no coach would care unless it affected his game

[Masterofreality]

Since Shannon posted this on her Facebook page (and if you’re not friends with her, you’re missing out) I’m posting this here without comment. Have at it. I have my opines.

From Steele’s Press Conference today:

“Travis Steele just had his pre-Georgetown presser and we learned two things:

1. None of the starters have been determined yet.

2. He may sprinkle in some zone moving forward.

Steele was adamant that the Musketeers' identity is as a man-to-man team but he conceded that lax defense is the reason the team has started 1-4 in the Big East. He has liked the way XU has responded in practices since the Marquette loss; we'll see if that carries over to tomorrow's game vs. the Hoyas.

Georgetown (12-7, 2-4 Big East) has played pretty well since the departures of James Akinjo and Josh LeBlanc. The Hoyas lead the conference in scoring (79.1 ppg), and while they're 10th in points allowed (73.6), they're tenacious on the offensive glass (12.4 rpg with a league-leading offensive rebounding percentage). Seven-footer Omer Yurtseven is third in the league in scoring (16.9 ppg) and second rebounding (9.9). Sharpshooting guard Mac McClung has averaged 19 ppg in his conference games.

What does this mean for Xavier? It's not going to be an easy game but a victory at home is a necessity before heading to Creighton this weekend.

Here are a few highlights of what Steele said in the presser.

Opening statement: We’re going to have our hands full with Georgetown. They’re a tremendous offensive team. They’re ranked 19th in the country in offensive efficiency. They score a lot of points. Coach (Patrick) Ewing is doing a terrific job putting his guys in spots where they can be very effective. They start with the big fellow, Yurtseven, who is as good as any big as in our league, that’s for sure. His skill level, he can score the ball and near the room shoots the ball really well on the offensive end. So we’ve been game-planning for him pretty hard over the last couple of days. Obviously they have Mac McClung, who’s one of the better scorers in our league as well. Anytime he can get his shot off and score the ball, and they surround those guys with really good shooters on the perimeter. So we’re going to have our hands full guarding them. We’ve got to make it a possession game. We’ve got to make it a grinding game for us to get ourselves the best chance to win.

Amid doubt and criticism, how do you pull yourself out of a slump?
TS: Just stay positive. The doubt and criticism, I have no idea. I’m numb to all that. It’s more about staying positive with our team. Positive thoughts lead to positive results. I think we’ve had great practices even during the stretch. It’s about just getting better and staying with the process and it’s a long season. It’s a marathon.

You said after Marquette that changes were coming. What changes might we see tomorrow?
TS: I don’t know who will start for us yet. We opened that up to our Xavier Way. The top five guys in the Xavier Way are going to be the starters tomorrow so that’s to be determined as far as who’s earned it. I’m not giving anybody any spot. They have to earn that right. We’ve competed a lot since the Marquette game but you’re going to see a big difference hopefully on the defensive end. You better see a big difference on the defensive end and on the backboard. Georgetown’s going to test us. They’re a really good offensive rebounding team. We have to block out, we have to be grinding, we have to play towards our identity. And I think we’ve gotten some stuff ironed out over the last week.

Has anyone stood out that has impressed you?
TS: Tyrique’s been dominant. He’s been dominant, dominant. He hasn’t been that dominant in a while, which has been good to see. Ty gives our team personality and when he plays like he’s been playing in practice, man, we’re a completely different team.

You played some zone last year; will you implement that again moving forward?
TS: Maybe a little bit. Again, our identity is going to be man-to-man and it has to be, and we have to be a heck of a lot better on the defensive end. That’s why we’re in the position we’re in in the Big East right now is our defense. But at the same time, we will mix in a little bit of zone here and there. When we went on our run last year, we got rid of zone for the most part and we were about 99 percent man towards the end of the year. And that’s who we are. So we’ll sprinkle in a little zone here and there.

[AviatorX]

We're really glossing over the Butler/Brandon Miller take. That is egregious.

[Muskie in dayton]

And that, my friends, is how you galvanize a message board behind our embattled coach. MOR, well done sir!
Now let’s get down to Cintas tomorrow and cheer home the tide-turning victory!!!

[IM4X]

Just got a chance to listen to Monday’s Travis Steels show. Hayes sounds like a nice guy, but he said absolutely nothing to help gain back any of the confidence I’ve begun to lose with this staff. It sure sounded like Hayes wasn’t making Larkin feel all that confident either. It just felt odd hearing oversimplified responses that told us nothing new and said in that “Everything is just awesome”’tone.

When listening to Steele during the prior show, you at least got a sense that Steele is bothered about some of the bad decisions and unhappy about some of the effort on the court.

[Xavier]

Beating Clifton Community College was, and is always, expected.


I don't think it is always expected- it was this year though.

I really am just using this to say that was the best X looked all year. They played hard, made good plays, guys hit shots. It has been a steady downhill pace since. I was very optimistic after that game. Not at all now.

[xavierj]

I don't think it is always expected- it was this year though.

I really am just using this to say that was the best X looked all year. They played hard, made good plays, guys hit shots. It has been a steady downhill pace since. I was very optimistic after that game. Not at all now.

The best game they played all year was at TCU right before conference play started.

[Xville]

I will say one thing that the coaches have said that the w-l agreed with. With the tcu game included, our two wins we have outrebounded the opponent, in all the losses since then x has been outrebounded; in a few games by a lot. Rebounding is 95% effort, have to crash the boards tonight to win.

[Xuperman]

Haven't been able to check in much lately and I can't bring myself to read this entire thread, but easy to see that "ledge space" is a hot commodity. I think the coaching/locker room scuttlebutt is somewhat exaggerated but something doesn't smell right.

Other than that, Yes, the MU game was an embarrassment because we got blasted by 20 but a road L vs the fighting Markus Howards is no big surprise. In fact, the only true disappointment in the 4 losses is CU at Cintas. The Nova game L was basically a given and the home loss to SHU seems to be understandable considering they look like the expected juggernaut.

So why all the doom and gloom? Now granted, lose tonight to make it 3 straight at home and I will be looking at some ledge space myself. This is season defining type game. Jones has win the PHYSICAL battle with Big Yurt early and often. Gotta keep the TOs in the reasonable range and get to the damn LINE!

There is one concern I have in the back of my mind....Blair will go off from 3 like he did as a freshman. He definitely scorched some Cintas nets that night..yikes.

[RetireFiftyTu]

Anyone suggesting that Travis Steele should be fired after this year is an idiot. There are definitely reasons to be concerned. Most of last year was not good. This year Xavier returns almost everybody and adds several players that are expected to contribute. Play ok to start the year but now Xavier has regressed and it looks bad. The last 3 games have been especially embarrassing. I'm not going to judge Travis Steele until this season is over. How quickly we forget that things can flip on a dime. For example, last year. It happened too late but that team was playing like an NCAA Tournament team at the end of the year. 2017, dead in the water after a 6 game losing streak. Flip the switch and make a run to the Elite 8. 2004, 10-9, nearly run the table all the way to the Final Four. The comments weren't pretty then either. I'm definitely disappointed with how Xavier has looked this year. And there are definitely legitimate reasons to be questioning Steele, but I'm going to wait until the season is complete to judge him.

Here's how I think Xavier can turn it around:
-Get back to being a Top 25 defense. If Xavier isn't defending they aren't good enough offensively to win. Since January 6, the day after beating St. John's, Xavier is 275th in AdjDef. From the start of the season up until that point, Xavier's defense was 19th in AdjDef. Similarly, following Xavier's 6 game losing streak last season they were 31st in AdjDef which lead to their 8-3 finish. Part of defense is finishing possessions with a rebound. Xavier has been piss poor at that this year especially during this 3 game skid. 346th in the country in DR% since January 6. I've seen a lot of people think Xavier should play faster. I actually think they should do the opposite and just grind out games. Play very slow and deliberately and play every possession like it's the last war of the National Championship game. Can't afford to coast and take possessions off.

-This renewed effort and intensity has to start with Quentin Goodin and Tyrique Jones. Q was playing great defense early on in the year but he really has slacked off lately. If he isn't defending he's unplayable. Tyrique has pretty good numbers but I still feel like they are somewhat empty as of late. He really needs to bring the juice and make an impact on the game.

-Turnovers offensively have been a big problem most of the year but believe it or not in the last 3 games Xavier is turning it over on only 14.1% of their possessions which is good for 22nd in the country since January 6. Xavier likely won't keep that up but valuing the ball is still extremely important. Every turnover is a shot that doesn't go up and no chance for a made basket or offensive rebound.

-Shooting has been bad and it kind of is what it is. However, Bryce Moore shot 40% from three last year on 160 attempts, 35.6% from three on 90 attempts the prior year, and 34.4% from three on 64 attempts the year before that. He's a good shooter. This year he's only shooting 28% (14-50) from three. Now the increase is competition is part of why he's struggling I'm sure, but it's also probably partly due to a long slump. If he can even increase his season 3P% to 33-34%, which would seem fairly likely statistically, that means he shoots 36-39%ish for the rest of the season. Maybe that doesn't happen but there's a decent chance of that I think. Everyone else is shooting about the percentage you would expect them to shoot. The only way Xavier's shooting gets better is probably with Moore knocking down some shots. Need him to shoot better.

-Singling out Goodin here too. Almost half of his shots are coming from 3 point range. That needs to be like 35% at most. Only 3's he should take are wide open, off the catch, in rhythm, with less than 10 seconds left on the clock. Otherwise drive the ball and get the ball moving. Xavier needs to get the defense moving in some way and then attack the basket to either get an open look or try and draw a foul. X has been poor at getting to the line this year. Need to be more aggressive offensively.

-I really hope Xavier turns is around. The season thus far has not really given me confidence that it happens but there is a path to at least competitiveness. I am not giving up yet.

[xcellentx]

I don't have a problem with Steele missing his radio show to go to one of the biggest High School basketball events in Ohio. Sure, he couldn't meet with players at this time, but there are tons of coaches, handlers, etc that you want to build relationships with and maybe Monday was the best day to do that. And like others have said, just making an appearance is important as well.

Steele hasn't done a great job this year, but to blame him for the lack of shooters doesn't make sense. Harden didn't get much playing time because Scruggs, Marshell, and Goodin were all better than him. Like others have said, it's not like he is playing like Markus Howard at a lower level. I think Bishop could have become that shooter, but he got a decent amount of run early in the year and didn't do well. I don't know why he left, but a big part of it seems to be homesickness and that has nothing to do with Steele.

It's also not Steele's fault that Mack's last recruiting class had the 2 worst ranked recruits we have had in 20 years and neither of them are shooters. James has shown some life, but he is not that strong player who is ready to step up right away. And Steele has brought in Welage, Moore, and Carter who were all decent to great shooters at their old schools. Not sure what else he was supposed to do for people who could help us right away.

Steele deserves lots of the shade he is getting but don't go hard at him for every single issue we have on this team.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I agree that missing a coach’s radio show isn’t a big deal.

But... He missed it to recruit a high school Freshman??

That’s reeks of a high schooler who’s afraid of getting dumped so he buys concert tickets for 6 months later just to keep her on the hook a little longer

[xcellentx]

Also, it is great to have a backup plan on a coach, but would most coaches hire their own assistants. And you can't expect to have a coaches replacement on the bench right away, and you can't have 2 head coaches. Even if the Butler situation as stated is correct, it is the outlier.

It is also too soon to say that Steele is "damaging the brand". A few down years don't destroy the program. If we were still in the A-10, maybe that would be an issue but the Big East provides more of a buffer there.

[XU 87]

I'm telling you that Collier had a backup plan in place. That's it. Neither you or I know for sure, what all the circumstances are, but tell me that it doesn't look odd that a Head Coach who just took his school to its first postseason appearance and had just been given 5 extra years of security via a contract extension just up and leaves for an assistants job at a school where he had zero prior connection? Hmmmm.

NONE of the players that we are recruiting played Monday afternoon/night. The coach contracted for a radio show. Show up.

As to the support. Last year, was an under performance in my view. This year with 4 veteran players, 2 of which played in the Elite 8, is a huge under performance. I need to be shown that he deserves support, and not just because we beat a garbage UC team. This team's offense is a joke compared to well coached teams. Creighton made us look like Clowns in our own building. Support needs to be earned, not given.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/25f147b8-2e06-4522-874c-1299fcae2144

[Mrs. Garrett]

I'm telling you that Collier had a backup plan in place. That's it. Neither you or I know for sure, what all the circumstances are, but tell me that it doesn't look odd that a Head Coach who just took his school to its first postseason appearance and had just been given 5 extra years of security via a contract extension just up and leaves for an assistants job at a school where he had zero prior connection? Hmmmm.

NONE of the players that we are recruiting played Monday afternoon/night. The coach contracted for a radio show. Show up.

As to the support. Last year, was an under performance in my view. This year with 4 veteran players, 2 of which played in the Elite 8, is a huge under performance. I need to be shown that he deserves support, and not just because we beat a garbage UC team. This team's offense is a joke compared to well coached teams. Creighton made us look like Clowns in our own building. Support needs to be earned, not given.

Not just 4 veteran players, but 4 veteran players who thought they were so good that they had to test the NBA draft waters. The way this team plays, I can't tell if it is on the players or the coach. It seems like a bit of lack of effort. Every game there is a lull, and it seems to be getting worse as they struggle.

I will say Travis needs to take control of the offense. They just can't continue to take so many bad threes and make so many turnovers. They are essentially losing 40+ possessions a game. Cut the 3 point attempts and turnovers in half, turn them into 2 point shot attempts, hit 50% of those and this is a completely different team.

[SM#24]

Our backup plan is the same as it was for Staak, Pete, Skip, Thad, Miller, Mack. Either next man up or look outside. The last three of those coaches receiving the same criticism that is being laid on Steele in their first couple of years. I imagine if Travis fails, we would look outside and not hand it off to an assistant.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Not just 4 veteran players, but 4 veteran players who thought they were so good that they had to test the NBA draft waters. The way this team plays, I can't tell if it is on the players or the coach. It seems like a bit of lack of effort. Every game there is a lull, and it seems to be getting worse as they struggle.

I will say Travis needs to take control of the offense. They just can't continue to take so many bad threes and make so many turnovers. They are essentially losing 40+ possessions a game. Cut the 3 point attempts and turnovers in half, turn them into 2 point shot attempts, hit 50% of those and this is a completely different team.

I've said this before several times. But, it feels like tonight's game is a big one for this team.

[bleedXblue]

I've said this before several times. But, it feels like tonight's game is a big one for this team.

LOL, just a bit. I said it earlier in the week. Win or lose, if this team doesn't play better.......more focus, more determined, more disciplined........I think this board will implode.

[Xville]

I'll flip if I see the same starting lineup mainly because then I'll know all that Steele and his assistants said is a bunch of bs and coach speak.

[xcellentx]

Not just 4 veteran players, but 4 veteran players who thought they were so good that they had to test the NBA draft waters.

I've seen this complaint in other places and it is just a pointless argument. Every single starter for Xavier should go to the draft and get information from the NBA. Letting players go through the draft process and then come back to school is one of only good things the NCAA has done in a long time. Their egos were so big that they all decided to come back to school.

[xcellentx]

I'll flip if I see the same starting lineup mainly because then I'll know all that Steele and his assistants said is a bunch of bs and coach speak.

Atleast wait to see how they play and how many minutes everyone plays.

[GOX]

Atleast wait to see how they play and how many minutes everyone plays.

Tonite will be interesting. I cant imagine whoever Steele puts on the floor will not be psyched. Thus, the danger is turnovers and fouling early and often. Whoever guards Yurtseven and McClung can’t foul them . They both make 75 + percent from the line, and our best players will sit early. That and a little better shooting gets the win.

[Xavier]

I've seen this complaint in other places and it is just a pointless argument. Every single starter for Xavier should go to the draft and get information from the NBA. Letting players go through the draft process and then come back to school is one of only good things the NCAA has done in a long time. Their egos were so big that they all decided to come back to school.

You can only do that once without declaring right? Thats why everyone assumes Scruggs and Marshal will leave after the year- they tested nba waters once- if they do it again they are gone.

[AviatorX]

You can only do that once without declaring right? Thats why everyone assumes Scruggs and Marshal will leave after the year- they tested nba waters once- if they do it again they are gone.

Nope - this was changed a few years back, you can enter and withdraw multiple times without signing an agent.

[OTRMUSKIE]

They should be allowed to sign with an agent too and be able to come back. Let these kids make money while they are in college. It’s going to Happen eventually. If Paul Scruggs signs with an agent test the waters but realizes coming back to school would be beneficial then we should allow it. What would be the downside to that?

[xcellentx]

They should be allowed to sign with an agent too and be able to come back. Let these kids make money while they are in college. It’s going to Happen eventually. If Paul Scruggs signs with an agent test the waters but realizes coming back to school would be beneficial then we should allow it. What would be the downside to that?

They have changed the rule to allow them to sign with a certified agent and still come back to school, although I am not sure what all goes into that. You can also test the waters multiple times which means players should do it.

[Mrs. Garrett]

I've seen this complaint in other places and it is just a pointless argument. Every single starter for Xavier should go to the draft and get information from the NBA. Letting players go through the draft process and then come back to school is one of only good things the NCAA has done in a long time. Their egos were so big that they all decided to come back to school.

2 of those guys are never sniffing the league. 2 wind up in the G League. The time would be better spent working on the skills they lack to help their team. Things their coach should be able to tell them what to work on.

You can tell by the way this team plays it's about egos and not the team. I don't watch a game and say there's our clear leader. Q's ego won't let him pass up three's that he can't make. There's times when Naji and Paul just decide that they are going to take the shot no matter how ill-advised the shot is.

I've watched a lot of Big East basketball this year and they are the clearly at the bottom with SJU. They were lucky to get away with a W there.

[AviatorX]

2 of those guys are never sniffing the league. 2 wind up in the G League. The time would be better spent working on the skills they lack to help their team. Things their coach should be able to tell them what to work on.

You can tell by the way this team plays it's about egos and not the team. I don't watch a game and say there's our clear leader. Q's ego won't let him pass up three's that he can't make. There's times when Naji and Paul just decide that they are going to take the shot no matter how ill-advised the shot is.

I've watched a lot of Big East basketball this year and they are the clearly at the bottom with SJU. They were lucky to get away with a W there.

Yeah, Xavier should definitely discourage guys from pursuing the NBA, especially in an era where the rules have been softened to allow more guys to get feedback on their game from actual NBA personnel. Great recruiting pitch.

Literally any coaching staff in America supports guys like Xavier's core four going through the NBA process. Also don't discount the benefit of guys hearing what they need to work on from third parties, especially third parties with NBA affiliations.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Yeah, Xavier should definitely discourage guys from pursuing the NBA, especially in an era where the rules have been softened to allow more guys to get feedback on their game from actual NBA personnel. Great recruiting pitch.

Literally any coaching staff in America supports guys like Xavier's core four going through the NBA process. Also don't discount the benefit of guys hearing what they need to work on from third parties, especially third parties with NBA affiliations.

I would question what feedback any of these guys received, because it hasn't helped them one bit. Did they tell Q he needs to improve his 3 point shooting so he can now shoot us out of every game in order to prove he belongs in the league? Now you have outsiders in a kid's ear telling he needs to do this and do that and now it hurts his actual team because.

What can you tell Tyrique? A 6'8 center who can't score outside the paint in a league that has eliminated true post players. He will never have the skill set to play in the NBA.

It's fine to test the waters, but know who you are as a player and if it's realistic.

[xcellentx]

Yeah, Xavier should definitely discourage guys from pursuing the NBA, especially in an era where the rules have been softened to allow more guys to get feedback on their game from actual NBA personnel. Great recruiting pitch.

Literally any coaching staff in America supports guys like Xavier's core four going through the NBA process. Also don't discount the benefit of guys hearing what they need to work on from third parties, especially third parties with NBA affiliations.

Agreed. Even if they will never get a shot at the NBA, getting feedback from another source is good.

Ego might be an issue on this team, but testing the waters isn't an ego issue. Every coach should be telling their players to do that.

[AviatorX]

I would question what feedback any of these guys received, because it hasn't helped them one bit. Did they tell Q he needs to improve his 3 point shooting so he can now shoot us out of every game in order to prove he belongs in the league? Now you have outsiders in a kid's ear telling he needs to do this and do that and now it hurts his actual team because.

What can you tell Tyrique? A 6'8 center who can't score outside the paint in a league that has eliminated true post players. He will never have the skill set to play in the NBA.

It's fine to test the waters, but know who you are as a player and if it's realistic.

I don't disagree with your assessment of their skill sets, just that it's not really a concern/indictment that these guys tested the waters. I mean we're talking about a few weeks when the team isn't allowed to practice together anyway.

[Xavier]

I would question what feedback any of these guys received, because it hasn't helped them one bit. Did they tell Q he needs to improve his 3 point shooting so he can now shoot us out of every game in order to prove he belongs in the league? Now you have outsiders in a kid's ear telling he needs to do this and do that and now it hurts his actual team because.

What can you tell Tyrique? A 6'8 center who can't score outside the paint in a league that has eliminated true post players. He will never have the skill set to play in the NBA.

It's fine to test the waters, but know who you are as a player and if it's realistic.

Completely agree- What is the point of trying to improve your skill set in a way that gives you the best chance at reaching your dreams. DUMB

[Masterofreality]

They’re even making fun of MOR on “the other Xavier Board”. As if that means anything.

Uh.....To my reading and deep review, NO ONE over there on the "other board" (musketeer mad...) said anything about me. I went over there, for the first time in months, because it stinks, went through multiple threads, and zero comment regarding me. Just a bunch of trash, as usual.

In fact, that Board is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy more negative about this coach and the staffs performance than here. Other than Andy Mac writing on there, that Board is an abject joke. Anybody with a brain avoids it like the plague. There's a reason why we pay to play on this great forum, and not that free piece of crap.

BTW. Getting feedback from NBA scouts is a good thing. I think it definitely helped JP and Tre fo sho'

[Mrs. Garrett]

Completely agree- What is the point of trying to improve your skill set in a way that gives you the best chance at reaching your dreams. DUMB

I think what's dumb is anyone who thinks all 4 of those kids have a shot and that it hasn't hurt the team this year.

I miss the good old days when players got exposure through playing well during the regular season and making some noise in the NCAA Tournament. Now we have kids more focused on the summer than the season. Yay us.

[AviatorX]

I think what's dumb is anyone who thinks all 4 of those kids have a shot and that it hasn't hurt the team this year.

I miss the good old days when players got exposure through playing well during the regular season and making some noise in the NCAA Tournament. Now we have kids more focused on the summer than the season. Yay us.

The latest anyone could have withdrawn their name last year was May 29th. Xavier practiced earlier this year than normal because of the Spain trip, but still didn't practice until late July. That is two full months between the withdrawal deadline and the earliest possible start of college practice.

Going through the process didn't seem to hurt Trevon Bluiett's senior year.

When do we start the discussion of how this team has too many alternate jersey options and its taking away from gameplan focus?

[xcellentx]

I think what's dumb is anyone who thinks all 4 of those kids have a shot and that it hasn't hurt the team this year.

I miss the good old days when players got exposure through playing well during the regular season and making some noise in the NCAA Tournament. Now we have kids more focused on the summer than the season. Yay us.

No one is saying that any of the 4 guys would get drafted if they stayed in last year and are most likely not getting drafted this year. Your conclusion that because they tested the waters it has hurt the team is unfounded. And to act like this shouldn't be encouraged is just incorrect.

You still get exposure by playing for the regular season and tourney, and to act like most kids on most teams aren't doing that because of some new draft process is ridiculous.

[Mrs. Garrett]

The latest anyone could have withdrawn their name last year was May 29th. Xavier practiced earlier this year than normal because of the Spain trip, but still didn't practice until late July. That is two full months between the withdrawal deadline and the earliest possible start of college practice.

Going through the process didn't seem to hurt Trevon Bluiett's senior year.

When do we start the discussion of how this team has too many alternate jersey options and its taking away from gameplan focus?

Trevon Bluiett had a legitimate reason to be going through the process.

[xcellentx]

Trevon Bluiett had a legitimate reason to be going through the process.

Being good in college doesn't automatically transfer to the NBA, as you can see with Bluiett not being drafted. You could argue that Scruggs and Marshall, while not being as dynamic as Bluiett in college, have size and skillsets that are more NBA ready.

[Muskie in dayton]

Uh.....To my reading and deep review, NO ONE over there on the "other board" (musketeer mad...) said anything about me. I went over there, for the first time in months, because it stinks, went through multiple threads, and zero comment regarding me.

“At XU Hoops” thread, response 3 from “thecoach”.

[XUGRAD80]

Uh.....To my reading and deep review, NO ONE over there on the "other board" (musketeer mad...) said anything about me. I went over there, for the first time in months, because it stinks, went through multiple threads, and zero comment regarding me. Just a bunch of trash, as usual.

In fact, that Board is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy more negative about this coach and the staffs performance than here. Other than Andy Mac writing on there, that Board is an abject joke. Anybody with a brain avoids it like the plague. There's a reason why we pay to play on this great forum, and not that free piece of crap.

BTW. Getting feedback from NBA scouts is a good thing. I think it definitely helped JP and Tre fo sho'

Well, there’s only about 3-4 people that actually ever post over there, so yeah if 2-3 of them post up negative comments you “could” say that site is “more” negative.

And pay to play? First I’ve heard about that.

I personally don’t see anything wrong with the pre-draft process that is currently in place either.

[GoMuskies]

I forgot musketeermadness still existed. Thank God Muskie & Co. saved us from that place!

[Mrs. Garrett]

Being good in college doesn't automatically transfer to the NBA, as you can see with Bluiett not being drafted. You could argue that Scruggs and Marshall, while not being as dynamic as Bluiett in college, have size and skillsets that are more NBA ready.

Trevon Blueitt actually came back from those evaluations a better player. He slimmed down and came back looking more athletic. I don't see that any of the 4 guys took anything away from their evaluations.

[Lloyd Braun]

I probably “believe” in analytics more than most, but we take way too many wing 3s, which are statistically the lowest %age three to take. That’s on coach to put them in better position. We never shoot a true corner 3.

[AviatorX]

I probably “believe” in analytics more than most, but we take way too many wing 3s, which are statistically the lowest %age three to take. That’s on coach to put them in better position. We never shoot a true corner 3.

100% with you, but this is an epidemic throughout college ball. Almost as bad as college teams never going 2 for 1.

[Masterofreality]

“At XU Hoops” thread, response 3 from “thecoach”.

“A guy over there.” That could be about 3 or 4 posters. Not exactly direct.
Objection overruled.

[GoMuskies]

Steele is obviously not getting fired this year. However....about this staff. I suspect Hayes is safe (if we can keep him) as he seems to be a recruiting fiend. Johnson and (especially) Dante? I don't know that they're on such firm footing. If we're going to see an early change, I suspect it's going to involve one or both of these guys.

[Masterofreality]

Steele is obviously not getting fired this year. However....about this staff. I suspect Hayes is safe (if we can keep him) as he seems to be a recruiting fiend. Johnson and (especially) Dante? I don't know that they're on such firm footing. If we're going to see an early change, I suspect it's going to involve one of both of these guys.

These players are being "Coached Down". Other than Free, is there any player who you can say has improved this year...or from last year...or from two years ago???

[GoMuskies]

These players are being "Coached Down". Other than Free, is there any player who you can say has improved this year...or from last year...or from two years ago???

Well, they certainly haven't been coached up in a way that has shown up in the games. Two years is definitely too soon to give up on a head coach. Assistant coaches don't get that benefit of the doubt.

[xavierj]

Steele is obviously not getting fired this year. However....about this staff. I suspect Hayes is safe (if we can keep him) as he seems to be a recruiting fiend. Johnson and (especially) Dante? I don't know that they're on such firm footing. If we're going to see an early change, I suspect it's going to involve one or both of these guys.

Dante is just getting started and I believe he was the main recruiter for Freemantle and Wilcher. Give him time. What I don’t like is that it doesn’t see like the assistant give much input during the game and it seems like Travis dominates during timeouts and half time. Travis May need to let the assistants have more say. I think Chris Mack’s assistants are much more active. Under Travis it’s like assistants under Mick Cronin, but I could be wrong.

[xuwin]

What I though was interesting was that McDermott spent every time out the whole game baiting the officials and did very little coaching while Travis spent every time out in the huddle detailing strategy which sounded very complicated to me. It seemed like less coaching worked better for them. Maybe it would be better to just let them play at game time and ease the pressure a little. They don't appear to be having fun.

[drudy23]

This is just a pet peeve of mine, but he was constantly saying "this is what I want" - I know it's probably not that big of a deal, but the program is for the players. I'm not saying the players should be calling the plays, but it's a subtle reference to a "my way or the highway" approach. I just don't think players really react to that kind of leadership anymore - he does seem very similar to Cronin in many ways, and this is another one.

He's not as animated or not as much of an overt dick to the players, but the players are just kind of staring at him like "whatever dude" - and then they go out and do what they want.

Love or hate Mack, he seemed to relate more to them. He gave it to them, but let them give it back a little too. I think players respect that.

[XU 87]

These players are being "Coached Down". Other than Free, is there any player who you can say has improved this year...or from last year...or from two years ago???

Scruggs, Naji and Tyrique have all improved under Steele.

Can't say the same for Q.

[atljar]

This is just a pet peeve of mine, but he was constantly saying "this is what I want" - I know it's probably not that big of a deal, but the program is for the players. I'm not saying the players should be calling the plays, but it's a subtle reference to a "my way or the highway" approach. I just don't think players really react to that kind of leadership anymore - he does seem very similar to Cronin in many ways, and this is another one.

He's not as animated or not as much of an overt dick to the players, but the players are just kind of staring at him like "whatever dude" - and then they go out and do what they want.

Love or hate Mack, he seemed to relate more to them. He gave it to them, but let them give it back a little too. I think players respect that.

So my basketball playbook knowledge isnt great, but it sure seemed like Steele would say "Next offensive possession we are going to go Naji to Zach to Tyrique, swing out" Or whatever. Then the next offensive possession Naji would bring the ball up, no passes, and shoot it. (Picking on him, but it was all the players). I never recognized one play actually being executed the way it was called (although, as I prefaced, some of this could be my lack of X and O knowledge)

[GoMuskies]

From yesterday, I'm wondering if Steele and McDermott took slightly different tacks on the whole all-access deal. Steele didn't seem to change anything. Called out normal play names, Xs and Os in the huddle. Etc. I feel like McDermott took a few "precautions", but maybe I just misheard. It seemed like they had some things written down that the did not say out loud. Like I remember him telling one of his players in a time out that he wanted something like the "next three plays". He showed an assistant coach a piece of paper and said something along the lines of "look at the one by my thumb". That sort of thing. Also was interesting that McDermott clearly heard Steele's calls and then alerted his defense as to what to do/watch for on numerous occasions. I do not recall Steele doing that at all.

None of this is really criticism. Just observation based on what I noticed with that silly telecast. I have no idea what, if any, effect any of that would have had on the game.

[stophorseabuse]

I post rarely these days.

I have totally reserved judgement because from a distance you just don’t know, plus this guy has recruited really well. I like his commitment to defense. I

I wasn’t loving a lot of what I was seeing before yesterday, but what I saw yesterday with the full access has me very concerned. I just didn’t see signs of great leadership or charisma on gameday. I’m concerned about the program—and this is a first for me.

I’m not in the fire Travis camp, but I’m not in the other camp either. He deserves 3 years imo. The offense just looks so awful, and the D and rebounding is not dominant.

I don’t care about the recipe for winning , just as long as it turns out delicious. I feel like the temperature in the oven is wrong though.

Random thoughts.

[drudy23]

From yesterday, I'm wondering if Steele and McDermott took slightly different tacks on the whole all-access deal. Steele didn't seem to change anything. Called out normal play names, Xs and Os in the huddle. Etc. I feel like McDermott took a few "precautions", but maybe I just misheard. It seemed like they had some things written down that the did not say out loud. Like I remember him telling one of his players in a time out that he wanted something like the "next three plays". He showed an assistant coach a piece of paper and said something along the lines of "look at the one by my thumb". That sort of thing. Also was interesting that McDermott clearly heard Steele's calls and then alerted his defense as to what to do/watch for on numerous occasions. I do not recall Steele doing that at all.

None of this is really criticism. Just observation based on what I noticed with that silly telecast. I have no idea what, if any, effect any of that would have had on the game.

There was no doubt they had us well scouted, which I'm guessing is pretty typical.

My question is, why wouldn't you change the names of your plays every now and then? You're basically telling them what you're running.

[Masterofreality]

Listened to the Coaches Show. For those who think I hate Steele with no recourse, I thought his answers tonight were fine and he did admit that “Offense is really the problem”. He’s still bemoaning shot selection, taking good shots and “giving what the game gives you” whatever that means, but at least he didn’t blindly just harp on defense. The questions from The Fans were crap but Byron asked some good ones.
The unexplained item still is why is Jason Carter basically protected in this lineup? He had 3 freaking rebounds vs a smaller team and missed 3 wide open 3’s. He never, or was never positioned to be posted up against a smaller guard like he was vs Georgetown.
Why not a starting 5 of Free, Ty, Scruggy, Q and Naji? Give James some time? Moore & Carter off the bench?

[OTRMUSKIE]

Looked like to me the guys are just looking to graduate. They didn’t seem too upset after the loss and they were even smiling during the handshake line. They just don’t appear to be listening to the coach and for some reason he is too scared to just sit them all down. Of course I’m probably way wrong and he just sucks as a coach.

[Masterofreality]

I post rarely these days.

I have totally reserved judgement because from a distance you just don’t know, plus this guy has recruited really well. I like his commitment to defense. I

I wasn’t loving a lot of what I was seeing before yesterday, but what I saw yesterday with the full access has me very concerned. I just didn’t see signs of great leadership or charisma on gameday. I’m concerned about the program—and this is a first for me.

I’m not in the fire Travis camp, but I’m not in the other camp either. He deserves 3 years imo. The offense just looks so awful, and the D and rebounding is not dominant.

I don’t care about the recipe for winning , just as long as it turns out delicious. I feel like the temperature in the oven is wrong though.

Random thoughts.

Welcome back HORSE!!!!
What you have expressed here reflects many of my concerns as well.
But he careful, Horse. You might be accused of being a personal Steele Hater.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Welcome back HORSE!!!!
What you have expressed here reflects many of my concerns as well.
But he careful, Horse. You might be accused of being a personal Steele Hater.

Ha!!! Ironically, I was accused of being just that last year...by the very poster who, ironically, started this thread. Life comes at you fast.

[UCGRAD4X]

I wasn’t loving a lot of what I was seeing before yesterday, but what I saw yesterday with the full access has me very concerned. I just didn’t see signs of great leadership or charisma on gameday. I’m concerned about the program—and this is a first for me.

Good to here from you.

I don't know what it is, but I get the same feeling watching them. No desire. No heart. No character. No team. Just a bunch of individuals 'shootin hoops'.

[stophorseabuse]

Good to here from you.

I don't know what it is, but I get the same feeling watching them. No desire. No heart. No character. No team. Just a bunch of individuals 'shootin hoops'.

They seem sterile, like itÂ’s almost too professional of an outfit. Not edgy, Lacking it emotion top to bottom. ItÂ’s not even that I donÂ’t think they play hard or even play selfishly, it just seems like a basic lack of fire. A lack of swagger that we are used too. We just donÂ’t have that dude on the team right now. We lack a Tu, a Drew, a Crawford, even a Macura. That guy may exist on the team, but he doesnÂ’t know it yet.

More than worries about a pretty offense, or a flowing offense full of seamless sets and wrinkles, I’m more worried that there isn’t “THAT GUY” with the capacity or understanding to “go get a bucket”.

It also concerns me that with that understanding, we still choose to , as a matter of fact RESIST pushing tempo and decide to use the clock on offense. That is great if you have great sets, or a star to go off the ball screen and create. But we are big and athletic and get a lot of stops, I donÂ’t understand why we donÂ’t attack defenses on their heels in transition.

Again, Steele May very well have a master plan that I don’t understand. I have a strong background with basketball, and I can always tell a great outfit when I see it—after I have seen it once.

What Steele is doing may be genius, but if it is itÂ’s a blueprint for excellence I am seeing for the first time . I hope that is exactly what it is.

[Muskie in dayton]

Meanwhile, at the University of Clifton, Coach Brannen has rallied his team together, reigned in their star player, and has his team playing great. Ugh.

Next year, I know X will be young and will struggle. All I ask is that Steele has them all on the same sheet of music, they play with energy and passion, and they show steady improvement over the year. Anything less and it’s time to cut bait. Heck, maybe that will still happen this year, but I see zero reason to hope for that.

[boozehound]

Meanwhile, at the University of Clifton, Coach Brannen has rallied his team together, reigned in their star player, and has his team playing great. Ugh.

Next year, I know X will be young and will struggle. All I ask is that Steele has them all on the same sheet of music, they play with energy and passion, and they show steady improvement over the year. Anything less and it’s time to cut bait. Heck, maybe that will still happen this year, but I see zero reason to hope for that.

Good point. With this year (likely) being so bad it's going to be tough to make a call on Steele within the next ~2 years. Having a 'lost years' scenario if he is the wrong guy is a very real possibility. How do we determine what success next year looks like? The team will likely be very young.

[Xavier]

Meanwhile, at the University of Clifton, Coach Brannen has rallied his team together, reigned in their star player, and has his team playing great. Ugh.

Next year, I know X will be young and will struggle. All I ask is that Steele has them all on the same sheet of music, they play with energy and passion, and they show steady improvement over the year. Anything less and it’s time to cut bait. Heck, maybe that will still happen this year, but I see zero reason to hope for that.

One of the very few benefits of a weaker conference. Gives the new coach ability to learn and succeed a lot easier. Another one- when the team isn't very good, you have a real shot of steadily improving and can win conference tournament a lot easier than say the BE. NCAA hopes stay alive most of the year

[Masterofreality]

One of the very few benefits of a weaker conference. Gives the new coach ability to learn and succeed a lot easier. Another one- when the team isn't very good, you have a real shot of steadily improving and can win conference tournament a lot easier than say the BE. NCAA hopes stay alive most of the year

Welp. We wanted this......for years!! And we have the bright lights.
What that means is that you can't just take the easy ways anymore. You have to go for excellence. Look, I don't know who else may have indicated that they wanted interest in this job. But I cannot remember too many schools in major conferences (which we are assuredly in now) just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant, no matter how many years they were at a school, other than Wojo, and he was with Coach K for 15 years with Final 4's on his resume. I'm certainly open to the board correcting me, but it seems that we have taken the easy way out here. Even VD brought a head coach with experience in. I didn't even see much expertise going on by the Assistants with Steele during the All Access. (Grits Teeth)

[xudash]

Mack leaves, Steele is named head coach, and:

1. He immediately goes out and shores up a depleted roster with transfers.

2. Turns around a failing season and just misses the NCAA Tournament in his first year with that patch quilt group.

3. Along the way, has secured some very serious incoming talent.

Some of you believe that this team plays without passion, yet I've seen them show enthusiasm - - you see that when TV cameras take shots at the bench after good plays or when players go to pick-up a fellow player off the floor after a hustle play, etc.

- - - - - - - -

Now the flip side:

1. Particularly in the case of Goodin - and unfortunately also with our other upperclassmen - carelessness and a lack of focus have led to way too many turnovers in games to-date.

2. For those of you who know the game of basketball well, you aren't seeing enough in the way of effective offensive sets, etc.

3. Naji "Hero Ball" - and at the worst possible times in a few key games this season.


I have no answers for why this season looks the way it looks. But I'll stop on two important points:

1. I believe it should be remembered that Mack's whiff in recruiting on one full year class has done current damage to the roster.

2. In the aggregate, Xavier is not perceived as having a legitimate 3-point threat. So, it looks like LaGuardia on Friday afternoon around the basket.


Footnote: BTW, anyone who thinks we should be in a weak conference like the A10, etc. needs to have their head examined. Xavier isn't going to lose the money or exposure or brand positioning that the BE provides.

[AviatorX]

Welp. We wanted this......for years!! And we have the bright lights.
What that means is that you can't just take the easy ways anymore. You have to go for excellence. Look, I don't know who else may have indicated that they wanted interest in this job. But I cannot remember too many schools in major conferences (which we are assuredly in now) just handing the keys to a lifelong assistant, no matter how many years they were at a school, other than Wojo, and he was with Coach K for 15 years with Final 4's on his resume. I'm certainly open to the board correcting me, but it seems that we have taken the easy way out here. Even VD brought a head coach with experience in. I didn't even see much expertise going on by the Assistants with Steele during the All Access. (Grits Teeth)

To really get a sense of this, you'd have to throw out all schools who were replacing a coach fired for performance, because obviously they aren't promoting from within. That's a sizable chunk of major conference coaching openings. I know you agree with this, but no way Xavier would have hired an assistant from another school.

I'm also not sure there's really a one to one comparison because it's likely Travis could have had a low-major head coaching job, but was incredibly selective in what he even pursued. Not saying having him cut his teeth elsewhere wouldn't have been better for all involved, but that's just what the situation was.

Dayton brought in a guy who got fired from his last college job...

[drudy23]

Agreed on the cutting teeth part - he's doing that on the job. Is that the right answer? All depends on how long it takes. Time's running out to figure out what he wants to lay as his framework for Trav Steele - Head Coach.

I'm pretty confident Mack knew he was going to take the Lousville job for a long time (as did the people in the ears of recruits). I'm also pretty confident that had an impact on the recruiting class. It wasn't as much a "whiff" as much is that he knew it wouldn't be his problem to fix.

[GoMuskies]

There was no reason to suspect that Louisville job would be open when Mack whiffed on the recruiting class.

[drudy23]

There was no reason to suspect that Louisville job would be open when Mack whiffed on the recruiting class.

There was some strong interest from several high caliber recruits that year and they all fell through. All of them. Something was up and I think they knew it.

Obviously, I have no proof of this, but it was either that or a perfect storm of recruits changing their minds.

[GoMuskies]

Those guys all knew Pitino was going to be implicated in an FBI sting and fired? Pitino was supposed to be at Louisville for 5 more years at least. Hell, the week before his firing he was on College Gameday as UofL's designated representative (supporting soon to be fired Bobby Petrino's team!).