New Starting Line-Up?

[drudy23]

Do we see a new starting line-up this Sunday? Do we counter defenses packing it in with multiple big men and our best shooters. Work inside/out to get Paul and Ky better looks?

Scruggs
KyKy
Tyrique
Freemantle
Naji

[X-Fan]

I’m ok with that lineup combo, but there’s no way Steele benches Q. Get KT more minutes, but you can’t sit a 4 year starting PG.


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[GoMuskies]

but there’s no way Steele benches Q. Get KT more minutes, but you can’t sit a 4 year starting PG.


Generally true from a starting perspective, but who finishes is more important than who starts. And Steele made it clear at Villanova that he's willing to have someone other than Q finish.

[drudy23]

Generally true from a starting perspective, but who finishes is more important than who starts. And Steele made it clear at Villanova that he's willing to have someone other than Q finish.

This is a good point.

Perhaps a better question is - do Freemantle and KyKy start to see extended minutes starting Sunday? I think Tyrique is ultra important to this team and his toughness and rebounding are needed. I'd rather see Ty and Freemantle gel together than Freemantle take some of his minutes.

Have Carter spell Free and Ty when they get tired.

[xu koop scoop]

Would like to see Freemantle or KyKy start in place of Carter, depending on the matchup. Carter be nice coming off bench. I wish both Ramsey & Miles weren't both being redshirTed. As far as shooting 3s, the line was moved back a foot plus. That has an impact we aren't addressing enough

[throwbackmuskie]

I am good with moving Carter to the bench. He is a bench guy/ role player in the BE. I do wish he would just pull the trigger at times, I thought he would really help with our outside shots.

[drudy23]

I’m ok with that lineup combo, but there’s no way Steele benches Q. Get KT more minutes, but you can’t sit a 4 year starting PG.


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I agree with what you're saying, but the fear of not doing this because he's a 4 year starter is what worries me. The man in the first chair has to make this call, and can't be tentative with it if he feels it will help the team win / play better.

We've heard a bunch of tough talk from Steele, but not sure it matters if he never pulls the trigger.

[Xville]

Would love to see the suggested starting lineup, but I just dont see it happening. I cant see Steele pulling q from the starting lineup barring any kind if injury. I could see carter being replaced though....the jump in competition and role may just have stunned him a bit. We have seen this with other transfers that it takes a year to get acclimated.

[AviatorX]

I'm on board the KyKy hype train, but what's the argument for pulling Q from the starting lineup in his favor as of January 2, 2020? Not really a strong case for Steele to point to for a move that would likely shake up chemistry. As pointed out above, the approach Steele is willing to take game by game on who "finishes" should be more flexible (and based on the Nova game, it seems he's moving in that direction).

Agreed on Freemantle for Carter (although I'm not quite as down on Carter as many, still feel he brings value and will turn the corner offensively) - this would provide some added bench positional flexibility as well.

[X-Fan]

I agree with what you're saying, but the fear of not doing this because he's a 4 year starter is what worries me. The man in the first chair has to make this call, and can't be tentative with it if he feels it will help the team win / play better.

We've heard a bunch of tough talk from Steele, but not sure it matters if he never pulls the trigger.

Agree, you don’t keep him in there “just because” he’s a 4 yr starter. What I meant was while he’s struggling a bit, Q adds a ton of value. No need to “throw out the baby with the bath water”. I feel not using Q would be a big loss. Let’s see Q finish strong and cap off his X career with great success.


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[drudy23]

Agree, you don’t keep him in there “just because” he’s a 4 yr starter. What I meant was while he’s struggling a bit, Q adds a ton of value. No need to “throw out the baby with the bath water”. I feel not using Q would be a big loss. Let’s see Q finish strong and cap off his X career with great success.


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He's a necessary piece to this team's success, no doubt, but if he's going to continue to not value possessions as the point guard, less minutes in crunch time may be necessary.

[Xuperman]

He's a necessary piece to this team's success, no doubt, but if he's going to continue to not value possessions as the point guard, less minutes in crunch time may be necessary.

Out of the top 10 assist guys in the BE, Q is #1 in AST/TO ratio.....a full point higher than BU PG Thompson. Now that's basically for the 10 guys that handle the ball the most, so to say he doesn't value possessions would have to be argued from a different perspective.

[xukeith]

All the KyKy hype is yet to be proven as justified. It may take him, like Scruggs, to be a significant contributor late in February because it is not clicking yet. What has he done? He is the best shooter of 3's in practice. Best in game performance is 4 shots and 8 points. He is not playing with confidence. He defers to all other players.
I hope the light bulb goes on for him sooner.

[AviatorX]

Out of the top 10 assist guys in the BE, Q is #1 in AST/TO ratio.....a full point higher than BU PG Thompson. Now that's basically for the 10 guys that handle the ball the most, so to say he doesn't value possessions would have to be argued from a different perspective.

Q has an unacceptably high turnover rate. I am probably his biggest defender on here, but there's no defense for that number (24.4).

[drudy23]

Out of the top 10 assist guys in the BE, Q is #1 in AST/TO ratio.....a full point higher than BU PG Thompson. Now that's basically for the 10 guys that handle the ball the most, so to say he doesn't value possessions would have to be argued from a different perspective.

Fair enough. But he does turn the ball over alot.

As I said in the other thread, to me, this isn't a testament on Q as a player. I actually think he's played pretty well. I also think he's a very good player. But him being in the game limits Xavier's ability to get more efficient on the offensive end because he's basically ignored off the ball. It allows defenses to basically play 5 on 4 because they're going to let him shoot. That makes it very hard for everyone else to execute.

He has had some poorly timed turnovers but for the most part, if he gets those shots, he has to take them. I just think him being in that situation does more to hurt the team than help. That doesn't mean he shouldn't play, but I do think different personnel moves would help.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Out of the top 10 assist guys in the BE, Q is #1 in AST/TO ratio.....a full point higher than BU PG Thompson. Now that's basically for the 10 guys that handle the ball the most, so to say he doesn't value possessions would have to be argued from a different perspective.

65 players in the Big East have played 40% of their team's minutes this year, of that group, Goodin is 57th with TO% of 24.4%. Scruggs is only marginally better at 55th, at 23.9%.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Out of the top 10 assist guys in the BE, Q is #1 in AST/TO ratio.....a full point higher than BU PG Thompson. Now that's basically for the 10 guys that handle the ball the most, so to say he doesn't value possessions would have to be argued from a different perspective.

I actually don't know what you're looking at, but of the Top 10 assist guys in the Big East, he is dead last at 1.66 Ass't to TO. The other 9 are, in order of their assists per game:

1.90
2.66
2.03
2.06
1.97
2.25
2.21
Quentin's 1.66
1.86
2.14

https://bigeastconf_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/sports/m-baskbl/2019-2020/CONFLDRS.HTM#conf.wki

[bleedXblue]

All the KyKy hype is yet to be proven as justified. It may take him, like Scruggs, to be a significant contributor late in February because it is not clicking yet. What has he done? He is the best shooter of 3's in practice. Best in game performance is 4 shots and 8 points. He is not playing with confidence. He defers to all other players.
I hope the light bulb goes on for him sooner.

Did you miss he part where he was hurt and missed the first handful of games? Seriously he just starting to get comfortable. NO ONE projected him to be a starter or stud from Day 1.

[xukeith]

Did you miss he part where he was hurt and missed the first handful of games? Seriously he just starting to get comfortable. NO ONE projected him to be a starter or stud from Day 1.

It is early still?
Lots of chatter about Kyky as the offensive guy to save this X defensive team. That is asking a lot of a frosh. Most frosh don't contribute. Coach Steele says he has to learn how to play defense. He is a one man run. One game againgst a non NCAA tourney team. The jury is still out. 17-1 in Big East.

[bleedXblue]

It is early still?
Lots of chatter about Kyky as the offensive guy to save this X defensive team. That is asking a lot of a frosh. Most frosh don't contribute. Coach Steele says he has to learn how to play defense. He is a one man run. One game againgst a non NCAA tourney team. The jury is still out. 17-1 in Big East.

Whatever. I have no idea WTF you are talking about sometimes. He has been talked about as an offensive weapon to help make some 3's this year. The kid needs more minutes. He's been held back with an injury and I think Steele has been a little more protective than he really needs to be. That pretty much is it. He's gonna be a good player.

[JTG]

All the KyKy hype is yet to be proven as justified. It may take him, like Scruggs, to be a significant contributor late in February because it is not clicking yet. What has he done? He is the best shooter of 3's in practice. Best in game performance is 4 shots and 8 points. He is not playing with confidence. He defers to all other players.
I hope the light bulb goes on for him sooner.

We'd all take 8 pts on 4 shots any day of the week. And he doesn't defer, they ignore him, even when he's wide open
Marshall is especially guilty of this. The 3 KyKy hit at Nova was a beautiful shot. He was in the same spot 2 other times and Marshall ignored him. I'm not saying Tandy is Bluiett, but Steele needs to knock some sense into Marshall.

[bleedXblue]

We'd all take 8 pts on 4 shots any day of the week. And he doesn't defer, they ignore him, even when he's wide open
Marshall is especially guilty of this. The 3 KyKy hit at Nova was a beautiful shot. He was in the same spot 2 other times and Marshall ignored him. I'm not saying Tandy is Bluiett, but Steele needs to knock some sense into Marshall.

He's got the gold jersey in practice this week.......so I'm not sure what that means or what message that is sending?

[American X]

Start Leighton Schrand again. Xavier is undefeated with him in the starting lineup, just saying....

[AviatorX]

We'd all take 8 pts on 4 shots any day of the week. And he doesn't defer, they ignore him, even when he's wide open
Marshall is especially guilty of this. The 3 KyKy hit at Nova was a beautiful shot. He was in the same spot 2 other times and Marshall ignored him. I'm not saying Tandy is Bluiett, but Steele needs to knock some sense into Marshall.

The "this team ignores KyKy" line of thinking is certainly something. The man has taken 33 shots in 75 minutes played at a nearly identical usage rate as Scruggs. If guys are trying to freeze him out, they're sure doing a terrible job of it.

[bleedXblue]

The "this team ignores KyKy" line of thinking is certainly something. The man has taken 33 shots in 75 minutes played at a nearly identical usage rate as Scruggs. If guys are trying to freeze him out, they're sure doing a terrible job of it.

well he certainly isn't shy about shooting it.......he pulls the trigger when he gets the ball......I think most posters are referring to the Nova game where he clearly was open a few times and both Naji and Q deferred to taking the shot themselves

[AviatorX]

well he certainly isn't shy about shooting it.......he pulls the trigger when he gets the ball......I think most posters are referring to the Nova game where he clearly was open a few times and both Naji and Q deferred to taking the shot themselves

Yeah I mean there is one possession where Naji clearly missed him on the wing in a secondary break situation. Pretty clearly a bad play in hindsight, but I think it's a pretty big overreach to come to the conclusion guys are intentionally ignoring KyKy.

[drudy23]

well he certainly isn't shy about shooting it.......he pulls the trigger when he gets the ball......I think most posters are referring to the Nova game where he clearly was open a few times and both Naji and Q deferred to taking the shot themselves

Not only taking the shots, but taking bad shots (step back 3s) when Ky was wide open.

[bleedXblue]

Not only taking the shots, but taking bad shots (step back 3s) when Ky was wide open.

He's auditioning for the NBA...come on man......and not doing a good job IMHO. He's never gonna be a good shooter. Just not his game. He's better off working on shots from 10-15 feet.

Yeah, Steele better put a stop to that real quick.

[AviatorX]

He's auditioning for the NBA...come on man......and not doing a good job IMHO. He's never gonna be a good shooter. Just not his game. He's better off working on shots from 10-15 feet.

Yeah, Steele better put a stop to that real quick.

I'd also be fine with him never shooting from 10-15 feet. This offense has looked its best (not a high bar, admittedly) when Naji catches it on the perimeter coming off a curl or screen going immediately downhill. They ran a lot of this against TCU and UC. He's also a good distributor (or has the potential to be) from that spot. I think they'll figure it out to a degree. These are the windows they're looking for when they're running constant dribble handoffs on the perimeter (which seems to piss off a lot of fans).

[BigMoeMusketeer]

The interesting thing about Naji is this: if you asked most Xavier fans, what is his best game this year, you would get "UC". 31 and 8, and really took it to Jarron for most of the night. The combative among us could pick another game and provide some nuanced reasons for it, but by and large, the fan base as a whole would say "UC".

He took 11 three's that night. 8 for 11 from two, and 4 for 11 from three.

My point: I think we can all live with him taking threes, especially when he is otherwise attacking and getting into a great rhythm, however, it is the occasional (or more than that) terrible shots that he takes that are so mind-numbing. That step-back three (which looked like it may have actually been a two had it gone in) was just a horrible play.

I guess the summary is my issue with Naji is less about taking three's, and more about general decision making. He is 6'8", skilled, powerful, and athletic, yet it is the 6" between his ears that occasionally holds him / us back.

[xudash]

The interesting thing about Naji is this: if you asked most Xavier fans, what is his best game this year, you would get "UC". 31 and 8, and really took it to Jarron for most of the night. The combative among us could pick another game and provide some nuanced reasons for it, but by and large, the fan base as a whole would say "UC".

He took 11 three's that night. 8 for 11 from two, and 4 for 11 from three.

My point: I think we can all live with him taking threes, especially when he is otherwise attacking and getting into a great rhythm, however, it is the occasional (or more than that) terrible shots that he takes that are so mind-numbing. That step-back three (which looked like it may have actually been a two had it gone in) was just a horrible play.

I guess the summary is my issue with Naji is less about taking three's, and more about general decision making. He is 6'8", skilled, powerful, and athletic, yet it is the 6" between his ears that occasionally holds him / us back.

I think you are spot on with this post.

And, as the overall team goes, better decision making and better concentration overall would certainly seem to be a good recipe for cutting down the TO's.

[drudy23]

I think they'll figure it out to a degree.

Well...does it take 3 years? Because it's been 2.

Of course it's Naji's decision making. He has the skill and athletic ability. As good as he is and can be, he kills this team with dumb decisions.

He cancels out the good with the bad. Or I guess you could say, he cancels out the bad with the good. Either way, it's neutral to the team. He can't be neutral, he's our best player.

[AviatorX]

Well...does it take 3 years? Because it's been 2.

Of course it's Naji's decision making. He has the skill and athletic ability. As good as he is and can be, he kills this team with dumb decisions.

He cancels out the good with the bad. Or I guess you could say, he cancels out the bad with the good. Either way, it's neutral to the team. He can't be neutral, he's our best player.

I mean, they've definitely had it working for spurts over the past two seasons. Consistent? Definitely not.

[AviatorX]

The interesting thing about Naji is this: if you asked most Xavier fans, what is his best game this year, you would get "UC". 31 and 8, and really took it to Jarron for most of the night. The combative among us could pick another game and provide some nuanced reasons for it, but by and large, the fan base as a whole would say "UC".

He took 11 three's that night. 8 for 11 from two, and 4 for 11 from three.

My point: I think we can all live with him taking threes, especially when he is otherwise attacking and getting into a great rhythm, however, it is the occasional (or more than that) terrible shots that he takes that are so mind-numbing. That step-back three (which looked like it may have actually been a two had it gone in) was just a horrible play.

I guess the summary is my issue with Naji is less about taking three's, and more about general decision making. He is 6'8", skilled, powerful, and athletic, yet it is the 6" between his ears that occasionally holds him / us back.

This nails it. I don't care if Naji shoots 15 threes in a game, as long as they're good looks.

[drudy23]

This nails it. I don't care if Naji shoots 15 threes in a game, as long as they're good looks.

Naji and Q are going to get good looks (Q more so than Naji). On purpose.

It's still not great when those two are leading the team in 3's attempted. It's just not.

[XU 87]

Do we see a new starting line-up this Sunday? Do we counter defenses packing it in with multiple big men and our best shooters. Work inside/out to get Paul and Ky better looks?

Scruggs
KyKy
Tyrique
Freemantle
Naji

I know they don't want to play two big men at the same time for a variety of reasons, but in light of Carter's lack of production on offense, I 'd like to see this more. I just don't think with this team you can have a guy play 36 minutes and score 4 points.

[xufan2020]

Naji and Q are going to get good looks (Q more so than Naji). On purpose.

It's still not great when those two are leading the team in 3's attempted. It's just not.
It doesn’t matter, it is the way it is. Mack whiffed in 2018 recruiting leaving this team with an outside shooting hole. When you have an open look from 3, you almost always have to take it. You also described Naji as a neutral player with his good canceling out his bad, that’s total nonsense. Naji is the best scorer and most talented player on this team. You understand the occasional bad shot or two during a game will happen but he is great.

[noteggs]

By no means am I suggesting Q should lead the team in 3 attempts, but let’s look at some stats.

Naji averages 5.1 - 3pt attempts a game shooting 25.8% (3FG%) and playing 33.6 minutes PG.

Scruggs averages 4.7 - 3pt attempts shooting 32.8% (3FG%) and playing 33.8 minutes PG.

Q averages 3.4 - 3pt attempts shooting 34.0% (3FG%) and playing 30 minutes PG.

Moore averages 3 - 3 pt attempts shooting 33.3% (3FG%) and playing 19.8 minutes PG.

KyKy averages 3 - 3 pt attempts shooting 28.6% (3FG%) and playing 10.7 minutes PG.

Out of the 5, Q is last in 3 attempts per minutes played. If his 3 point percentages stay the same and doesn’t jack up contested shots early in the shot clock, I’m ok with this current pace. Now if you look at his last year numbers of 4.6 attempts PG at a 29.8% average, that’s where I have a problem.

[surfxu]

Kind of turning into a Naji thread, but I agree, he's the best scorer and can take over almost every game. Doesn't mean he DOES take over every game, but he certainly seems to be who the offense runs through unless there's some other red hot hand... like Paul/Tyrique/Q. I've kind of noticed that when he does take what would be considered an "ill advised" shot, it's usually after he's been running ragged for a long period of time. Obviously it would be a luxury to spell him a little bit more from time to time, but there just has to be someone that doesn't drop the net scoring to way below zero (no offense and clueless defense leading to easy scores) from that position when he's out. That probably equates to both more offensive production from Carter and less defensive fouls by Zack. Hopefully we see that in the 2nd half of the season. It would be nice to turn a few more of those 3 attempts into conversions too. Come on Baby Yoda... please give me all that!!!

[drudy23]

It doesn’t matter, it is the way it is. Mack whiffed in 2018 recruiting leaving this team with an outside shooting hole. When you have an open look from 3, you almost always have to take it. You also described Naji as a neutral player with his good canceling out his bad, that’s total nonsense. Naji is the best scorer and most talented player on this team. You understand the occasional bad shot or two during a game will happen but he is great.

1. It does matter. We have some shooters. Not a lot but a couple. Those guys should be getting the most 3 point looks. If Q continues to be open on three's, it's because the defense wants it that way. Change the personnel so you're not put in this situations so much where the worst perimeter shooter has to shoot the most threes. It doesn't mean "oh well, keep shooting"
2. Naji's poor decision making and poor shot selection hasn't been occassional. It's been going on since Tre and JP left and frankly hasn't changed except for a 2 week period last year.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Every time I open this thread, I think about CJ Fredrick at Iowa and cringe a little.

[AviatorX]

Every time I open this thread, I think about CJ Fredrick at Iowa and cringe a little.

High high chance he would have opened up his recruitment in the coaching change, so as with all things 2018 recruiting class, it just isn't worth the energy.

[drudy23]

Or Cole Swider.

[Fireball]

As far as I am concerned, Q can take as many open 3's as he wants. I'm reasonably confident he can make those. It's the ill-advised, quick, contested ones he takes that I have an issue with.

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[GoMuskies]

Q can take as many in-rhythm,open 3's as he wants.

Added what I believe is an important qualifier.

[bleedXblue]

Just to add a snip it. Jason Carter needs to start playing more aggressive. If he's going to be on the floor he has to shoot when open and be more assertive. I'm tried of seeing him play without confidence and not stepping up and taking shots when he is wide open.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Just to add a snip it. Jason Carter needs to start playing more aggressive. If he's going to be on the floor he has to shoot when open and be more assertive. I'm tried of seeing him play without confidence and not stepping up and taking shots when he is wide open.

I liked him when I saw him play last year. And, like others, I thought he could be the final piece of the puzzle for X this year (at the time, I assumed we had a bunch of frosh who also would contribute). I think Carter is a smart player---I don't recall him forcing up a bunch of dumb shots and he makes his free throws (which, on this team, stands out). But, he's not been able to create his own shot and unfortunately this Xavier offense hasn't been successful at creating shots for players that cannot do so for themselves.

[IM4X]

Naji and Q are going to get good looks (Q more so than Naji). On purpose.

It's still not great when those two are leading the team in 3's attempted. It's just not.

i emphatically agree with this post.

Steele needs to get Q and Naji to stick to just taking 3s when they have a good look, are feeling it, and are shooting from a spot on the floor that is not far behind the arc so that their percentage will improve and then he has gotta work harder to create more open looks for the best 3 point shooters (Scruggs, Moore, and Kyky).

This seems obvious, but somehow we are just getting, “I don’t care about 3s” from Steele.” For a smart coach (and I believe he is one), this is a dumb answer.

[IM4X]

Do we see a new starting line-up this Sunday? Do we counter defenses packing it in with multiple big men and our best shooters. Work inside/out to get Paul and Ky better looks?

Scruggs
KyKy
Tyrique
Freemantle
Naji


I love- love- love the idea of Jones and Freemantle on the floor together. Have said it since the beginning of the season. I do understand why he held off on it for a team like Nova who shoots a lot of threes, but tomorrow, I’d like to see them on the floor together like Travis has said he plans to do.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

High high chance he would have opened up his recruitment in the coaching change, so as with all things 2018 recruiting class, it just isn't worth the energy.

Just to be fair, he was MUCH closer to Trav than Chris throughout the process, and on the flip side, Trav was MUCH HIGHER on him than Chris was. So maybe...maybe not.

[xuwin]

I liked him when I saw him play last year. And, like others, I thought he could be the final piece of the puzzle for X this year (at the time, I assumed we had a bunch of frosh who also would contribute). I think Carter is a smart player---I don't recall him forcing up a bunch of dumb shots and he makes his free throws (which, on this team, stands out). But, he's not been able to create his own shot and unfortunately this Xavier offense hasn't been successful at creating shots for players that cannot do so for themselves.

He has a lot of open shots. He is just reluctant to take them for some reason. I don't understand it because he was a scorer before he got here.

[Fireball]

He has a lot of open shots. He is just reluctant to take them for some reason. I don't understand it because he was a scorer before he got here.Carter's shot just wasn't dropping early in the season, and I'm guessing he just hasn't gotten the confidence back in the shot. Honestly, to be a factor in the Big East and in the tournament this year, we have a confident Carter doing his thing.

He doesn't need to dominate games, but he does need to stop passing up open jumpers.

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[AviatorX]

Carter's shot just wasn't dropping early in the season, and I'm guessing he just hasn't gotten the confidence back in the shot. Honestly, to be a factor in the Big East and in the tournament this year, we have a confident Carter doing his thing.

He doesn't need to dominate games, but he does need to stop passing up open jumpers.

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Rick made a great point on the last Dana & Victory podcast - that Carter is overextending himself and/or fading on a lot of attempts at the rim as opposed to trying to play through contact in the hopes of at least getting to the line (where he is excellent). Apparently this was a big part of his game at OU. More FT attempts from Carter would go a long way.

[drudy23]

He has a lot of open shots.

There's a reason for that. Until he starts shooting and making them, it's going to continue.

When the defense's focus is on Paul, Ty, and Naji, Q and Carter are mostly always wide open.

[bleedXblue]

There's a reason for that. Until he starts shooting and making them, it's going to continue.

When the defense's focus is on Paul, Ty, and Naji, Q and Carter are mostly always wide open.

Honestly if through the offense we get these guys good open shots, I hope they take them. Otherwise things are going to continue to be clogged up for the other players.

If Carter continues to be an observer on the offensive end, we need to explore other rotations or options.

[American X]

Steele needs to get Q and Naji to stick to just taking 3s when they have a good look, are feeling it, and are shooting from a spot on the floor that is not far behind the arc so that their percentage will improve

Ask Naji when he is not feeling it?

[xu82]

Ask Naji when he is not feeling it?

Naji can’t hear you. He’s too busy feelin’ it.

[XUGRAD80]

Well I think that the SJ games shows that the STARTING lineup doesn’t really matter. The lineup during the LAST 30 minutes of the game is what’s really important.

[whopper]

agreed and I think both Carter and Moore need to realize that they have to take the shots, make the moves, foul or be fouled and let the coach decide what to do. James shots were not that great, but he made quick decisions and that is the only way to play at this level. We how have more proven depth. Amazing stat is that we only had ONE steal!! I saw a number of potential steals by Naj, Q that ended up in the hands of St johns. Carter who I like had no business playing 35 minutes, he needs 20 hard minutes and he willl be fine.

[XUGRAD80]

agreed and I think both Carter and Moore need to realize that they have to take the shots, make the moves, foul or be fouled and let the coach decide what to do. James shots were not that great, but he made quick decisions and that is the only way to play at this level. We how have more proven depth. Amazing stat is that we only had ONE steal!! I saw a number of potential steals by Naj, Q that ended up in the hands of St johns. Carter who I like had no business playing 35 minutes, he needs 20 hard minutes and he willl be fine.

I noticed that when he gave up rebounds to SJ Travis pulled him and put James in. Carter had 3 DR in 15 minutes, James had 7 in 25. Tracks may have been sending him a message.

[Xville]

I'm continually dumbfounded as to why Carter gets so many minutes. He must be one hell of a practice player.

With that, hopefully this game is reflective of the rotation from here on out....9 is really solid depth and everyone should really start settling into their roles if the rotation is consistent.

[bleedXblue]

I'm continually dumbfounded as to why Carter gets so many minutes. He must be one hell of a practice player.

With that, hopefully this game is reflective of the rotation from here on out....9 is really solid depth and everyone should really start settling into their roles if the rotation is consistent.

He was getting minutes b/c Travis has been pretty patient with him. To be fair he is a decent defender and rebounder. So glad DJ made the most of his opportunity. Now Carter knows he has to start producing or his minutes are going to wane.

[whopper]

very true and that is a powerful incentive at work or sports. Not a bad thing

[drudy23]

JC is a big body. He has value getting boards and playing smart. Just not starting value and a whole bunch of minutes value. This team will need him down the stretch.

KyKy needs minutes. Moore might be the odd man out. He came in and immediately took a very dumb shot today. And he's not a better shooter than KyKy.

Naji makes good shots. I really wish he would put that in his memory bank.

[xcellentx]

I'm continually dumbfounded as to why Carter gets so many minutes. He must be one hell of a practice player.

With that, hopefully this game is reflective of the rotation from here on out....9 is really solid depth and everyone should really start settling into their roles if the rotation is consistent.

I think he gets a bit too much criticism although he hasn't played well recently.

Who else were you going to replace him with? I assume if Ramsey was healthy he would be taking some of these minutes. James showed he might be capable, but hadn't shown it before. You can't play too many extended minutes with both Freemantle and Jones on the floor against most teams.

You could go with a slightly smaller lineup with some combination Q, Tandy, Scruggs, Naji, and Moore with Jones/Freemantle, but that is only now becoming an option with Kyky getting healthy.

I hope James can be that guy who gets some decent minutes at the 4 and gets Carter to play less minutes but can do it with more intensity.

[UCGRAD4X]

I'm continually dumbfounded as to why Carter gets so many minutes. He must be one hell of a practice player.

With that, hopefully this game is reflective of the rotation from here on out....9 is really solid depth and everyone should really start settling into their roles if the rotation is consistent.

I'm completely with you on the Carter frustration (and the Naji 8 turnovers). He is just too slow most of the time. Not used to playing against BE speed.

[Lloyd Braun]

Freemantle in. Q off bench. Hmmm

[drudy23]

Freemantle, Tyrique AND Carter in at the same time.

Perhaps we're seeing a shift in strategy. Hopefully it works.

[bjf123]

Freemantle in. Q off bench. Hmmm

Gonna guess Zach isn’t playing point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AviatorX]

I think this is a pretty dumb lineup to be honest, but Steele says he did it by Xavier way points, so is what it is for tonight.

[Xville]

I think this is a pretty dumb lineup to be honest, but Steele says he did it by Xavier way points, so is what it is for tonight.

Agreed, but at least it is different....I'd have done...

Kyky
Paul
Naji
Free
Jones

But whatever

[bleedXblue]

I think this is a pretty dumb lineup to be honest, but Steele says he did it by Xavier way points, so is what it is for tonight.

Good call

[XUGRAD80]

I think this is a pretty dumb lineup to be honest, but Steele says he did it by Xavier way points, so is what it is for tonight.

Worked out pretty good, didn’t it?

Left a 6’3” guy guarding Carter and Carter took him to the woodshed early in the game. Not sure why they went away from him posting that guy up, especially when the GT 7’0 Center went to the bench. Carter had double digit rebounds too.

Like having Freemantle playing high post on offense, he can do a lot from there in terms of setting picks, passing, and has options when it comes to scoring. Draws a big on the other team away from the rim too. That should open up driving lanes and allow Jones and Carter to dominate the rebounding.

Defensively, it does open them up to having Carter or Freemantle guarding a smaller and quicker player. That will be a liability against some teams. Perhaps against those teams they will use more zone defense to combat that? Have to wait and see. It is a lineup that has a lot of length, and with that length should be a tough team to shoot over if they do go zone. Of course, rebounding out of a zone seems to always be a problem for the defensive team, so that is a concern.

Every lineup is going to have its strengths and weaknesses. Adjustments made during the games is key, but a lineup like what they used may well cause other teams to adjust to X. For far to long it seems that it has always been X adjusting to others, perhaps with this lineup the shoe will be on the others foot.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Worked out pretty good, didn’t it?

Left a 6’3” guy guarding Carter and Carter took him to the woodshed early in the game. Not sure why they went away from him posting that guy up, especially when the GT 7’0 Center went to the bench. Carter had double digit rebounds too.

Like having Freemantle playing high post on offense, he can do a lot from there in terms of setting picks, passing, and has options when it comes to scoring. Draws a big on the other team away from the rim too. That should open up driving lanes and allow Jones and Carter to dominate the rebounding.

Defensively, it does open them up to having Carter or Freemantle guarding a smaller and quicker player. That will be a liability against some teams. Perhaps against those teams they will use more zone defense to combat that? Have to wait and see. It is a lineup that has a lot of length, and with that length should be a tough team to shoot over if they do go zone. Of course, rebounding out of a zone seems to always be a problem for the defensive team, so that is a concern.

Every lineup is going to have its strengths and weaknesses. Adjustments made during the games is key, but a lineup like what they used may well cause other teams to adjust to X. For far to long it seems that it has always been X adjusting to others, perhaps with this lineup the show will be on the others foot.

It did work out well. One of the posters on this board (I cannot recall who) suggested Freemantle and Jones in the lineup, at the same time, weeks ago. At the time, I was concerned it would expose us to foul trouble with our Bigs and no other backup on the bench. But, it worked out.

The one thing you did not mention and I don't know if you were at the game but, there was a discernable energy on the floor last night that was new to this team. The crowd seemed to pick it up also. I don't know if it reflects a "back to the wall" attitude, something the team has picked up from Steele or just the change in personnel but it was a different vibe.

It feels like a long shot that X makes the Big Dance this year. I just don't know if we have the right personnel. Maybe (I hope) I'm too pessimistic. But, watching them play last night was actually enjoyable. There has been a noticeable lack of enthusiasm for much of the season and last night I felt something different and more positive.

[XUGRAD80]

Wasn’t at the game, but the energy was noticeable on TV too. Decoursey has them on his first 4 out right now, but there are still a lot of games left and they can certainly play their way into the dance before the season ends.

[AviatorX]

Good call

Lol, that's why Steele makes millions and I post here. I am very much in favor of more Carter utilization, so I'm willing to wait and see how this works out.

[Xville]

I'm very interested to see about q....was the starting lineup change just because q "tweaked" something and that's what they did on the fly, or will this starting lineup be the one moving forward? Guess we will see on sunday.

[bobbiemcgee]

We'll see Q when KYky is completely gassed.

[xuwin]

Based on recent games I can see Goodin and Moore competing for minutes. Goodin is a better ballhandler, Moore is better on defense and neither has been effective as a scorer. KyKy has to get the bulk of the minutes because he keeps the defense honest from the perimeter. He also only had one turnover in 28 minutes last night and will get more comfortable with playing time. Also, I wonder if we will get a feel for what Ramsey can contribute, if anything, before the season ends and his year is wasted.

[bleedXblue]

We'll see Q when KYky is completely gassed.

As should be the case with a guy who cant shoot.......

I've said it many, many times. If Q was a great defender and a guy who created primarily and set the tone for the team, he would still be very valuable. When he chucks up 3's and isn't active defensively, he brings little value.

[drudy23]

I'm very interested to see about q....was the starting lineup change just because q "tweaked" something and that's what they did on the fly, or will this starting lineup be the one moving forward? Guess we will see on sunday.

If Steele doesn't go with something similar in the next game, he's a fool.

[bleedXblue]

If Steele doesn't go with something similar in the next game, he's a fool.

Correct, you go back to Q after seeing what KyKy can do, you are a moron.

[xuwin]

If Steele doesn't go with something similar in the next game, he's a fool.

I thought the offense struggled more yesterday when he started varying from the original starting lineup. The more guards we put on the floor the more one on one offense we see.

[XUGRAD80]

I thought the offense struggled more yesterday when he started varying from the original starting lineup. The more guards we put on the floor the more one on one offense we see.

That is true.

[noteggs]

I know Steele sees what he see’s at practice. But when you see 3 bigs starting (Carter is at best a stretch 4) with some success yesterday, why wasn’t some form of this used earlier? Better yet, just something different? As GRAD80 pointed, lineup actually opened the floor vs the packed in we’ve seen all year.

To date, I haven’t criticized Steele, but why did it take so long with an inefficient offense to do this. Sure opposing teams will figure some things out and adjust, but keep other teams guessing.

Mark this down as a learning experience for Coach Steele? Brings me back to when Jay Wright started small ball because that was based on necessity, not the choice he really wanted. Of course all changes don’t have to change the way the game is played. Just play with the cards you were dealt.

[SemajParlor]

To date, I haven’t criticized Steele, but why did it take so long with an inefficient offense to do this.

Especially since last year the Hankins-Jones lineup change of playing together was almost directly associated with the season turnaround.

[IM4X]

I know Steele sees what he see’s at practice. But when you see 3 bigs starting (Carter is at best a stretch 4) with some success yesterday, why wasn’t some form of this used earlier? Better yet, just something different? As GRAD80 pointed, lineup actually opened the floor vs the packed in we’ve seen all year.

To date, I haven’t criticized Steele, but why did it take so long with an inefficient offense to do this. Sure opposing teams will figure some things out and adjust, but keep other teams guessing.

Mark this down as a learning experience for Coach Steele.

A lot of us are asking this question. It was so obvious that lineup was not working and we were having serious trouble being effective inside with that lineup.

This bigger lineup removes a smaller guard who doesn’t help the interior on offense and who wasn’t able to score) and replaces him with an additional big (which helped not only created a mismatch in our favor inside but it gave us an advantage with rebounding).

Additionally, Freemantle and Carter are probably both better 3 point shooters than Q (which means having an improved 3pt %).

This was a good move all around.

[IM4X]

Worked out pretty good, didn’t it?

Left a 6’3” guy guarding Carter and Carter took him to the woodshed early in the game. Not sure why they went away from him posting that guy up, especially when the GT 7’0 Center went to the bench. Carter had double digit rebounds too.

Like having Freemantle playing high post on offense, he can do a lot from there in terms of setting picks, passing, and has options when it comes to scoring. Draws a big on the other team away from the rim too. That should open up driving lanes and allow Jones and Carter to dominate the rebounding.

Defensively, it does open them up to having Carter or Freemantle guarding a smaller and quicker player. That will be a liability against some teams. Perhaps against those teams they will use more zone defense to combat that? Have to wait and see. It is a lineup that has a lot of length, and with that length should be a tough team to shoot over if they do go zone. Of course, rebounding out of a zone seems to always be a problem for the defensive team, so that is a concern.

Every lineup is going to have its strengths and weaknesses. Adjustments made during the games is key, but a lineup like what they used may well cause other teams to adjust to X. For far to long it seems that it has always been X adjusting to others, perhaps with this lineup the shoe will be on the others foot.


Good post

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

A lot of us are asking this question. It was so obvious that lineup was not working and we were having serious trouble being effective inside with that lineup.

This bigger lineup removes a smaller guard who doesn’t help the interior on offense and who wasn’t able to score) and replaces him with an additional big (which helped not only created a mismatch in our favor inside but it gave us an advantage with rebounding).

Additionally, Freemantle and Carter are probably both better 3 point shooters than Q (which means having an improved 3pt %).

This was a good move all around.

I have same thought. I'm glad to see the move but kept asking myself why so long to try it? I still have lots of questions about Steele but a win removes the pressure.

I'm hoping Q's benching and watching the entire game from the pines (in his last year) helps him regain his appreciation for the game. For the record, I was at Cintas last night when the team came out to warm-up. Q led the way but he warmed up in kind of a lackadaisical manner. I told my wife while we were watching the team, that his body language told me he was benched. I saw zero evidence of any tweak. Still, I give Steele credit for not rubbing his face in it. Hope Q learns from it. That would be a sign of maturity.

[IM4X]

It did work out well. One of the posters on this board (I cannot recall who) suggested Freemantle and Jones in the lineup, at the same time, weeks ago. At the time, I was concerned it would expose us to foul trouble with our Bigs and no other backup on the bench. But, it worked out.

The one thing you did not mention and I don't know if you were at the game but, there was a discernable energy on the floor last night that was new to this team. The crowd seemed to pick it up also. I don't know if it reflects a "back to the wall" attitude, something the team has picked up from Steele or just the change in personnel but it was a different vibe.

It feels like a long shot that X makes the Big Dance this year. I just don't know if we have the right personnel. Maybe (I hope) I'm too pessimistic. But, watching them play last night was actually enjoyable. There has been a noticeable lack of enthusiasm for much of the season and last night I felt something different and more positive.

I may have been the one you were mentioning. I have been posing that Jones and Freemantle should be playing together for a while. Though, I canÂ’t take credit for the lineup having Carter in there as well. I like the move of the three of them with Naji and Scruggs. I also like how well Kyky played with four of them when Steele went smaller.

I agree that watching last night was enjoyable and the energy level seemed high again from both the crowd and the players. There were probably a number of reasons for it but I think at least part of it was seeing Steele actually went through with changing the lineup and at least part of it was seeing that new lineup play better than the old one.

[Masterofreality]

I think this is a pretty dumb lineup to be honest, but Steele says he did it by Xavier way points, so is what it is for tonight.

Quality analysis.

[xcellentx]

I know Steele sees what he see’s at practice. But when you see 3 bigs starting (Carter is at best a stretch 4) with some success yesterday, why wasn’t some form of this used earlier? Better yet, just something different? As GRAD80 pointed, lineup actually opened the floor vs the packed in we’ve seen all year.

To date, I haven’t criticized Steele, but why did it take so long with an inefficient offense to do this. Sure opposing teams will figure some things out and adjust, but keep other teams guessing.

Mark this down as a learning experience for Coach Steele? Brings me back to when Jay Wright started small ball because that was based on necessity, not the choice he really wanted. Of course all changes don’t have to change the way the game is played. Just play with the cards you were dealt.

I think the parts of the game where you saw Freemantle guarding a more athletic player and they slash to the basket is why you haven't seen this more. Mismatches go both ways. Freemantle was also fouling a lot more in less minutes earlier in the year making it harder to leave him in longer. I think if Ramsey was healthy you may have seen more of this type of lineup earlier in the season.

I would just caution taking too much from 1 game when it comes to this type of lineup.

[Masterofreality]

Worked out pretty good, didn’t it?

Left a 6’3” guy guarding Carter and Carter took him to the woodshed early in the game. Not sure why they went away from him posting that guy up, especially when the GT 7’0 Center went to the bench. Carter had double digit rebounds too.

Like having Freemantle playing high post on offense, he can do a lot from there in terms of setting picks, passing, and has options when it comes to scoring. Draws a big on the other team away from the rim too. That should open up driving lanes and allow Jones and Carter to dominate the rebounding.

Defensively, it does open them up to having Carter or Freemantle guarding a smaller and quicker player. That will be a liability against some teams. Perhaps against those teams they will use more zone defense to combat that? Have to wait and see. It is a lineup that has a lot of length, and with that length should be a tough team to shoot over if they do go zone. Of course, rebounding out of a zone seems to always be a problem for the defensive team, so that is a concern.

Every lineup is going to have its strengths and weaknesses. Adjustments made during the games is key, but a lineup like what they used may well cause other teams to adjust to X. For far to long it seems that it has always been X adjusting to others, perhaps with this lineup the shoe will be on the others foot.

REAL Quality analysis.

[Masterofreality]

If Steele doesn't go with something similar in the next game, he's a fool.


Correct, you go back to Q after seeing what KyKy can do, you are a moron.

Absolutely

[Masterofreality]

I thought the offense struggled more yesterday when he started varying from the original starting lineup. The more guards we put on the floor the more one on one offense we see.

Absolutely and they totally stopped exploiting the Carter mismatch until very late in the 2nd. I can only scratch my head sometimes.

[AviatorX]

Quality analysis.

Lol. I figured you of all people would roast Steele for determining starters based on pre-determined stat criteria.

I continue to think that is a dumb long-term approach, but my assumption is Steele went to that as a motivational tactic (i.e. all spots are open) and will tinker with the lineup on a matchups basis.

[Masterofreality]

If Steele doesn't go with something similar in the next game, he's a fool.


I know Steele sees what he see’s at practice. But when you see 3 bigs starting (Carter is at best a stretch 4) with some success yesterday, why wasn’t some form of this used earlier? Better yet, just something different? As GRAD80 pointed, lineup actually opened the floor vs the packed in we’ve seen all year.

To date, I haven’t criticized Steele, but why did it take so long with an inefficient offense to do this. Sure opposing teams will figure some things out and adjust, but keep other teams guessing.

Mark this down as a learning experience for Coach Steele? Brings me back to when Jay Wright started small ball because that was based on necessity, not the choice he really wanted. Of course all changes don’t have to change the way the game is played. Just play with the cards you were dealt.

How many times have people pointed out that it took 20 games or more for the staff to figure out that they should have been playing Hanky & 'Rique together last year. Free is a frosh, so I didn't expect Game 1, but how about 5-6 games ago?

[Lloyd Braun]

Last nights starting lineup gets torched by most BE teams... Creighton will be a huge test to this lineup defensively.

[Masterofreality]

Lol. I figured you of all people would roast Steele for determining starters based on pre-determined stat criteria.

I continue to think that is a dumb long-term approach, but my assumption is Steele went to that as a motivational tactic (i.e. all spots are open) and will tinker with the lineup on a matchups basis.

Rigid "practice players" vs "Game Players" Approach. Oh, yeah. That always works. :rolleyes:
I wonder what Jordan Crawford's Xavier Way score would have been and if he would have been held out of the starting lineup?

And the biggest problem with this "practice dictating lineups" approach is that it totally ignores what the other team throws at you. Hence Creighton making us look like fools in our building. This practice points in a vacuum is a recipe for failure.

[Masterofreality]

Last nights starting lineup gets torched by most BE teams... Creighton will be a huge test to this lineup defensively.

So, you go small and replace Carter with Moore to start. Creighton is smaller & quick, so you match that. Alternate Carter & Free if needed during.

[GoMuskies]

I wonder what Jordan Crawford's Xavier Way score would have been and if he would have been held out of the starting lineup?

He didn't start the Crosstown Shootout.

[Masterofreality]

He didn't start the Crosstown Shootout.

He was in within 5 minutes.
And "disciplinary" is a lot different than "practice points"

[IM4X]

I have same thought. I'm glad to see the move but kept asking myself why so long to try it? I still have lots of questions about Steele but a win removes the pressure.

I'm hoping Q's benching and watching the entire game from the pines (in his last year) helps him regain his appreciation for the game. For the record, I was at Cintas last night when the team came out to warm-up. Q led the way but he warmed up in kind of a lackadaisical manner. I told my wife while we were watching the team, that his body language told me he was benched. I saw zero evidence of any tweak. Still, I give Steele credit for not rubbing his face in it. Hope Q learns from it. That would be a sign of maturity.

Why do I feel like this exact thing happened before.

I could swear that this same situation happened with Q before: Q starts to play awful for a number of games. The team really struggles. Fans become vocal about Q’s poor play, wondering what is going on with him and questioning why he is playing when he repeatedly performs so poorly. Then one game Q does not start (or play) and a report comes out that he “tweaked” his knee.

Maybe you or someone else can tell me if I am mistaken.

Your report about him moving around at the game makes me wonder about the knee story. Anyway, I agree that it is acceptable for a coach to allow a senior save face. Q seems like a really nice guy who has the ability to play at a much higher level, but is simply caught in a funk. It would be nice to see his “tweaked” knee get better soon... and see him come back playing some of his best ball.

[Lloyd Braun]

So, you go small and replace Carter with Moore to start. Creighton is smaller & quick, so you match that. Alternate Carter & Free if needed during.

I agree... mostly responding to those that are clamoring for the bigs to play together all the time.

[noteggs]

I agree... mostly responding to those that are clamoring for the bigs to play together all the time.

I agree with this too. Think last night we had the most intense guys we have (regardless of position) to start the game who have been playing decent as of late (maybe an overstatement but you get my point and why I left Moore off).

Just needed to infuse the team at the beginning. Creighton was playing as bad as us a few games ago and our intensity was mia. Can’t blame it all on one thing and may have not change the results of that game but it just seemed to work yesterday.

[N67ER]

I agree... mostly responding to those that are clamoring for the bigs to play together all the time.

Question (not an argument): Facing Creighton, a good 3-point shooting team, are you better off going with a smaller, quicker line-up that can stay with the Creighton players who try to slash to the basket but aren't necessarily big enough to discourage Creighton from shooting 3-pointers - or, do you stay with a big line-up that is more intimidating to shoot over but can get beat on drives? Does the big line-up force Creighton to play a different game? Could you argue that it is not a bad strategy to trade 2 pointers for 3 pointers???

Creighton shot almost 40% on 3's at Cintas; they hit 40% of their 3's against DePaul last night; they are shooting 37% from 3 on the season; most of their guards, including Balleck who shot 5 of 9 at Cintas, are 6'5" or better, so can smaller guards really stop the 3's; Balleck is shooting 3's at a 45% clip in Big East play.

Finally, by staying with the smaller line-up at Cintas, X was out rebounded 41-37.

Just a question to consider.

[Muskie]

I agree... mostly responding to those that are clamoring for the bigs to play together all the time.

In order for that to work you have to count on neither getting in foul trouble. Early in the season, Free was getting fouls quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[IM4X]

Ask Naji when he is not feeling it?

good point.

[Lloyd Braun]

Question (not an argument): Facing Creighton, a good 3-point shooting team, are you better off going with a smaller, quicker line-up that can stay with the Creighton players who try to slash to the basket but aren't necessarily big enough to discourage Creighton from shooting 3-pointers - or, do you stay with a big line-up that is more intimidating to shoot over but can get beat on drives? Does the big line-up force Creighton to play a different game? Could you argue that it is not a bad strategy to trade 2 pointers for 3 pointers???

Creighton shot almost 40% on 3's at Cintas; they hit 40% of their 3's against DePaul last night; they are shooting 37% from 3 on the season; most of their guards, including Balleck who shot 5 of 9 at Cintas, are 6'5" or better, so can smaller guards really stop the 3's; Balleck is shooting 3's at a 45% clip in Big East play.

Finally, by staying with the smaller line-up at Cintas, X was out rebounded 41-37.

Just a question to consider.

It’s possible that they are a bad matchup for us this year regardless of lineup. If you go small and pressure shooters while switching everything, you better slow it down on offense and feed Jones/post over and over and hope they double while having lots of off-ball movement.

If you go big as they did against Gtown, you have to outrebound them by 10+ and make it ugly. This is likely what they will try to do, and if they fail I don’t think it’s back to the drawing board. This is likely the style X needs to play to win. Unless we somehow find depth to go 10 deep and pressure the ball some more it will have to be grind it out ugly ball. Which is probably their true identity if you look at the wins.

[Masterofreality]

It’s possible that they are a bad matchup for us this year regardless of lineup. If you go small and pressure shooters while switching everything, you better slow it down on offense and feed Jones/post over and over and hope they double while having lots of off-ball movement.

If you go big as they did against Gtown, you have to outrebound them by 10+ and make it ugly. This is likely what they will try to do, and if they fail I don’t think it’s back to the drawing board. This is likely the style X needs to play to win. Unless we somehow find depth to go 10 deep and pressure the ball some more it will have to be grind it out ugly ball. Which is probably their true identity if you look at the wins.

It actually is a conundrum. I'm not sure what the answer is. Some teams you don't really match up well with, and Creighton is one.
I'm not gonna kill the staff over this one if we don't win. If they do win, they're getting big props. The only thing I'll be upset about is if we come out with a lousy effort and get outrebounded again.

[AviatorX]

Creighton is a bad matchup for basically everyone every year, yet somehow they can't ever win in March. It's baffling.

[GoMuskies]

It's baffling.

Yes, "baffling".

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Creighton_basketball_coach_greg_mcdermott.jpg/220px-Creighton_basketball_coach_greg_mcdermott.jpg

[AviatorX]

Yes, "baffling".

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Creighton_basketball_coach_greg_mcdermott.jpg/220px-Creighton_basketball_coach_greg_mcdermott.jpg

Very true. Remember how stumped I was when he was very close to getting the OSU job.

I can't imagine what this board would look like if X had Creighton's regular season success and talent and hadn't made a Sweet 16 since 1974 (if you even want to count that, as 25 teams were in the bracket).

[noteggs]

After looking at our record with Creighton since joining the BE, our away record is not as bad as I thought which gives me hope.

Won 7 (home 4 wins - away 3 wins)
Lost 6 (home 3 loses - away 3 loses)

Big East tournament 1-2. Our first win was last year.

Doesn’t seem like there’s much of a home advantage for either team. Time for a road kill!!!

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Not exactly a hot take to say that our offense has been poor this year, but to see it in this fashion, it really underscores just how difficult it is for this team to win games consistently.

In 2018 Xavier scored 120.1 per 100 possessions. That efficiency rating in 70 possessions (what Xavier averages this year) = 84 points per game.

In 2020 Xavier scores 104.6 per 100 possessions. That rating, for 70 possessions = 73 points per game.

That is really dramatic, even more so than I'd have expected.

Now, in fairness, at least when looking at the whole season (the Big East only numbers would be much worse), the defense is better this year.

In 2018 they gave up 98.6 points per 100 possessions, or 69 points per game.

In 2020 they give up 92.0 points per 100 possessions, or 64 points per game.

[AviatorX]

Not exactly a hot take to say that our offense has been poor this year, but to see it in this fashion, it really underscores just how difficult it is for this team to win games consistently.

In 2018 Xavier scored 120.1 per 100 possessions. That efficiency rating in 70 possessions (what Xavier averages this year) = 84 points per game.

In 2020 Xavier scores 104.6 per 100 possessions. That rating, for 70 possessions = 73 points per game.

That is really dramatic, even more so than I'd have expected.

Now, in fairness, at least when looking at the whole season (the Big East only numbers would be much worse), the defense is better this year.

In 2018 they gave up 98.6 points per 100 possessions, or 69 points per game.

In 2020 they give up 92.0 points per 100 possessions, or 64 points per game.

The offense is terrible, but in fairness you're comparing it against the best offense in Xavier history. It's unlikely Xavier will ever have another roster with as much shooting and pure offensive firepower as 2018. This team should be able to guard well enough that they could be very, very good while still having a much less efficient offense than 2018.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

The offense is terrible, but in fairness you're comparing it against the best offense in Xavier history. It's unlikely Xavier will ever have another roster with as much shooting and pure offensive firepower as 2018. This team should be able to guard well enough that they could be very, very good while still having a much less efficient offense than 2018.

All true. Several of Chris' teams were in that 117-120 range offensively, so while 2018 was ELITE, it isn't as much of an outlier as you may think. However, your point is 100% accurate.

I'm just trying to figure out how many different metrics and lenses I can use to redefine how horrific this offense is. #FunWithNumbers

[XU 87]

Rigid "practice players" vs "Game Players" Approach. Oh, yeah. That always works. :rolleyes:


"You earn your minutes in practice" has been a Xavier Mantra going back to Matta. It's not as though Steele has come up with a new approach.

You show me a team where the players loaf in practice, and I'll show you a team that loses. "You practice how you play" isn't some theoretical concept.

[Masterofreality]

"You earn your minutes in practice" has been a Xavier Mantra going back to Matta. It's not as though Steele has come up with a new approach.

You show me a team where the players loaf in practice, and I'll show you a team that loses. "You practice how you play" isn't some theoretical concept.

Again, sir. You miss the point. It's not about "loafing". It's about who can perform their best when the lights are brightest and understanding that.
Some players do their work in practice but just don't have that lazer focus like game day. But when the game starts, they are locked in and loaded. They play their best because their concentration is just on the beam.
Some players do their work in practice and just play free and easy there. But then when the cameras are on them, they tense up, think too much and just don't perform up to the best level.
There are guys who are the "GAME GOATS" , but secondary practice players on every team I've ever been associated with- and the players on that team knew who they were, and wanted those guys in the game because they gave the team the best chance to win. Xavier Way points alone are subjective and don't consider heart, game readiness and the ability to bring the best. How many times did we hear that "such and such is our best shooter in practice but couldn't bring it in the game? Some elevate their game to the moment- example Jordan Crawford. Derrick Brown too. I'll bet he never won a Gold Jersey.
I understand a grading system for helping guys improve and as a motivating tool. But to reduce players totally to a number on a piece of paper without considering game performance, matchup moves and how to counterbalance the opposition's weapons is just an elemental error. Not only that, but you had damn well better be grading the important skills at the right level. If your grading system is screwed up, your analysis will be too.
Don James had a great game against St. Johns, because the staff finally got desperate enough to try him in...but he can't see the floor hardly at all since then? WTF? Jason Carter must have 25,000,000,000 Xavier Way points and Don, 4.

[xu koop scoop]

Again, sir. You miss the point. It's not about "loafing". It's about who can perform their best when the lights are brightest and understanding that.
Some players do their work in practice but just don't have that lazer focus like game day. But when the game starts, they are locked in and loaded. They play their best because their concentration is just on the beam.
Some players do their work in practice and just play free and easy there. But then when the cameras are on them, they tense up, think too much and just don't perform up to the best level.
There are guys who are the "GAME GOATS" , but secondary practice players on every team I've ever been associated with- and the players on that team knew who they were, and wanted those guys in the game because they gave the team the best chance to win. Xavier Way points are subjective and don't consider heart, game readiness and the ability to bring the best. How many times did we hear that "such and such is our best shooter in practice but couldn't bring it in the game? Some elevate their game to the moment- example Jordan Crawford. Derrick Brown too. I'll bet he never won a Gold Jersey.
I understand a grading system for helping guys improve and as a motivating tool. But to reduce players totally to a number on a piece of paper without considering game performance, matchup moves and how to counterbalance the opposition's weapons is just an elemental error. Not only that, but you had damn well better be grading the important skills at the right level. If your grading system is screwed up, your analysis will be too.
Don James had a great game against St. Johns, because the staff finally got desperate enough to try him in...but he can't see the floor hardly at all since then? WTF? Jason Carter must have 25,000,000,000 Xavier Way points and Don, 4.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read. Practice does not by any means translate to in game success. When the lights go on & 10,000 are screaming you may perform totally different than in practice. Some of the best practice players falter like deer in the headlights when game goes on. Some mediocre practice players perform lights out (pun intended) when they get in the game.

[paulxu]

Shades of AI.

[XU 87]

Again, sir. You miss the point. It's not about "loafing". It's about who can perform their best when the lights are brightest and understanding that.
Some players do their work in practice but just don't have that lazer focus like game day. But when the game starts, they are locked in and loaded. They play their best because their concentration is just on the beam.
Some players do their work in practice and just play free and easy there. But then when the cameras are on them, they tense up, think too much and just don't perform up to the best level.
There are guys who are the "GAME GOATS" , but secondary practice players on every team I've ever been associated with- and the players on that team knew who they were, and wanted those guys in the game because they gave the team the best chance to win. Xavier Way points alone are subjective and don't consider heart, game readiness and the ability to bring the best. How many times did we hear that "such and such is our best shooter in practice but couldn't bring it in the game? Some elevate their game to the moment- example Jordan Crawford. Derrick Brown too. I'll bet he never won a Gold Jersey.
I understand a grading system for helping guys improve and as a motivating tool. But to reduce players totally to a number on a piece of paper without considering game performance, matchup moves and how to counterbalance the opposition's weapons is just an elemental error. Not only that, but you had damn well better be grading the important skills at the right level. If your grading system is screwed up, your analysis will be too.
Don James had a great game against St. Johns, because the staff finally got desperate enough to try him in...but he can't see the floor hardly at all since then? WTF? Jason Carter must have 25,000,000,000 Xavier Way points and Don, 4.

I find it interesting that you would criticize Steele for using a system ("minutes are earned in practice") that has been utilized by every X coach dating back to Matta (and probably before). Were they all coaching idiots too? I get it that you don't like Steele, I get it that you think he's a coward and a liar, but can you at least criticize him on legitimate issues (and there are some) and not resort to some of this other nonsense, such as "he should have played Bishop more, he should have played Harden more, he should be playing James more, he purposely skipped his show on Monday because he was afraid to answer tough questions,", etc. etc. etc.

I have long respected you on this board, but your constant criticism of Steele, over every and any issue, some of it very personal, is just too much.

[xuwin]

Last nights starting lineup gets torched by most BE teams... Creighton will be a huge test to this lineup defensively.

And this lineup would also be a huge test to Creighton's lineup defensively. At some point Xavier has to sacrifice some on defense to get more offense on the floor.

[Lloyd Braun]

And this lineup would also be a huge test to Creighton's lineup defensively. At some point Xavier has to sacrifice some on defense to get more offense on the floor.

I want this to be true! But I can’t see this offense being a huge defensive test for many teams. Bottom line is if this is the best shot we have of winning I’m for it. Just not convinced this lineup will last long yet.

[Masterofreality]

I find it interesting that you would criticize Steele for using a system ("minutes are earned in practice") that has been utilized by every X coach dating back to Matta (and probably before). Were they all coaching idiots too? I get it that you don't like Steele, I get it that you think he's a coward and a liar, but can you at least criticize him on legitimate issues (and there are some) and not resort to some of this other nonsense, such as "he should have played Bishop more, he should have played Harden more, he should be playing James more, he purposely skipped his show on Monday because he was afraid to answer tough questions,", etc. etc. etc.

I have long respected you on this board, but your constant criticism of Steele, over every and any issue, some of it very personal, is just too much.

Instead of finger pointing, Counselor, why don't you address my specific issues raised? I guess because you have no real rebuttal other than deflecting toward the attack of "you don't like Steele....you think he's a coward and a liar...". Uh, sir, I am able to have issues with his coaching style, decisions, approach, whatever, when those items result in underperformance, which they have, and still have no personal vendetta against him. I desire excellence and the best chance for this team and players to succeed, and I sincerely do not think the players have been put in the best positions to win.

As to "a system that has been utilized by every X coach back to Matta", are you sure, and can you verify please Counselor, that the measurements, practice analysis, and scoring of those points are the exact same as those other Coaches? If you cannot, your entire post is invalid.

Next, there is still no valid reason that he had to miss both a post game interview and a Monday night coaches show after a horrible performance. It smacks of hiding, it would have been roasted and laughed at on this board if it was Cronin, and I'm not excusing it here, just because it's Steele or any other coach. Please someone point to me when any other Xavier coach missed both of those shows in succession after a lousy, and totally trash game. I submit it has never happened.

Finally, rather than just skipping over those "legitimate issues" that are wrong with this team, why don't you bring them on the table? Maybe because they would cast a bad light on Steele and weaken your attacks on me?

"The witness will answer the question."

[AviatorX]

Steele is taking his hiding from the media and fan base to a new level by agreeing to be mic’d up for the entire game tomorrow and granting the FS1 crew locker room access.

When will this man face the heat?

[Masterofreality]

Steele is taking his hiding from the media and fan base to a new level by agreeing to be mic’d up for the entire game tomorrow and granting the FS1 crew locker room access.

When will this man face the heat?

Like he had any choice. LARGE EYE ROLL
Quit deflecting.

[JTG]

I want this to be true! But I can’t see this offense being a huge defensive test for many teams. Bottom line is if this is the best shot we have of winning I’m for it. Just not convinced this lineup will last long yet.

Isn't Creighton's tallest big only 6'7" ? I'd say the lineup from Wed is a big plus for us. Provided we can guard the arc.

[94GRAD]

Isn't Creighton's tallest big only 6'7" ? I'd say the lineup from Wed is a big plus for us. Provided we can guard the arc.

Sounds like an immovable object and unstoppable force dilemma.

[XUGRAD80]

I’d be really surprised if we don’t see the same starting lineup. However, I’d be equally surprised if we don’t see several different lineups throughout the game.

[whopper]

Marcus Zegarowski is exactly who we got Bryce Moore for and the law of averages should start coming into play. Other than that it should be a contrast of styles and lets see what happens.

[scoscox]

Sounds like an immovable object and unstoppable force dilemma.

it's a matchup between a terrible offense vs a terrible defense and a good defense vs. an elite offense

[Mrs. Garrett]

I think Travis needs to insert KyKy or Moore into the starting lineup in place of Carter. Not sure what he has done to garner such a long leash with Travis. Zach needs to be the starting 4 and Carter is just too slow to guard the 3.

[xuwin]

I think Travis needs to insert KyKy or Moore into the starting lineup in place of Carter. Not sure what he has done to garner such a long leash with Travis. Zach needs to be the starting 4 and Carter is just too slow to guard the 3.

As much as I like KyKy's future he was awful on defense an he wasn't even close on his shots yesterday. Moore was more effective and was making shots and deserved the playing time. I think the atmosphere was too much for KyKy as a freshmen.