Ugliest. Win. Ever.

[Smooth]

I wish this site worked all night and my my cable didn't. Somehow we won. And we built a shithouse. 3-0. Better than the alternative. Going hiking for a couple days. Hopefully I don't miss the ground when I step out of my car. Did I mention that we are 3-0? Need to keep reminding myself of that.

[Snipe]

When we lose I hate banging on the kids, because they are our kids, and everyone else tends to go off on them. I am defensive and I love our kids.

It is always much better to be critical of them after a win.

My God what a mountain of suck that was. I love the fact that we came back to win the game. Hell Yeah! That builds character and all that. But what a horrible shit show.

I think the defense was very good at times. On offense it looks like these guys never knew each other before tonight, no rhythm.

They have to get better for us to have a chance. That was appalling.

[Fireball]

I'll take 37 more wins just like it...

[STL_XUfan]

I'll take 37 more wins just like it...

This is not recommend by the American Heart Association

[Drew]

That was, awful. I will give the kids credit for having the heart to stick it out and find a way to win. But it never should've gotten to that point in the first place.

I think we need to start drawing up plays for Moore to shoot the 3 (and kyky when he gets back.) Having no 3 pt threat allows the defense to just pack the inside and neuters Goodin, Scruggs etc.

[XUOHTX]

I'll take 37 more wins just like it...

There isn't enough whiskey.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That was, awful. I will give the kids credit for having the heart to stick it out and find a way to win. But it never should've gotten to that point in the first place.

I think we need to start drawing up plays for Moore to shoot the 3 (and kyky when he gets back.) Having no 3 pt threat allows the defense to just pack the inside and neuters Goodin, Scruggs etc.

It will be interesting to see how Kyky can help in this area. Is he supposed to be a good 3 point shooter? I didnt follow the recruiting stuff enough to know.

Otherwise I did not come out of that game thinking we need to find a way to shoot more threes.

We need to hit more for sure, and maybe get other guys to shoot the ones we are shooting? But man our 3 point shooting was horrendous.

[Xville]

It will be interesting to see how Kyky can help in this area. Is he supposed to be a good 3 point shooter? I didnt follow the recruiting stuff enough to know.

Otherwise I did not come out of that game thinking we need to find a way to shoot more threes.

We need to hit more for sure, and maybe get other guys to shoot the ones we are shooting? But man our 3 point shooting was horrendous.

Hes the best shooter on the team, not that that is saying too much, plus that is at practice and what I saw on the high school and AAU circuit.

I think offensively, he is one of the best on the team, but defensively, he may struggle a bit. He was that guy in high school who was so.much better than most teams he played on the offensive end, that he didnt take defense that seriously.

Not that he cant do it, I just think it is going to be a bit of a learning curve for him.

[Drew]

It will be interesting to see how Kyky can help in this area. Is he supposed to be a good 3 point shooter? I didnt follow the recruiting stuff enough to know.

Otherwise I did not come out of that game thinking we need to find a way to shoot more threes.

We need to hit more for sure, and maybe get other guys to shoot the ones we are shooting? But man our 3 point shooting was horrendous.

We just need the right people shooting three's. I have no faith when Goodin, Naji or Scruggs puts up a shot. Frankly, I think the 2 year experiment of running both Goodin and Scruggs at the same time has proven to be a failure. Hopefully Steele chooses to start one and use the other as backup. Or KyKy is so good he just takes the job altogether.

[scoscox]

It will be interesting to see how Kyky can help in this area. Is he supposed to be a good 3 point shooter? I didnt follow the recruiting stuff enough to know.

Otherwise I did not come out of that game thinking we need to find a way to shoot more threes.

We need to hit more for sure, and maybe get other guys to shoot the ones we are shooting? But man our 3 point shooting was horrendous.

... yes. Shot 47% in high school. According to steele he’s been shooting about 48% in practice and the next guy closest is Bryce Moore at 39%. Kyky s a shooter it’s what he does

[scoscox]

When we lose I hate banging on the kids, because they are our kids, and everyone else tends to go off on them. I am defensive and I love our kids.

It is always much better to be critical of them after a win.

My God what a mountain of suck that was. I love the fact that we came back to win the game. Hell Yeah! That builds character and all that. But what a horrible shit show.

I think the defense was very good at times. On offense it looks like these guys never knew each other before tonight, no rhythm.

They have to get better for us to have a chance. That was appalling.

People should keep in mind that mizzou is a great defensive team. #11 in kenpom right now and will only move up. The game was ugly because were not a good shooting team and mizzou is great defensively. It was always going to be an ugly game. Just happy to win. Team showed resilience they didn’t have last year. Our biggest problem in this game was tyrique. He was uncharacteristically terrible. If he has a normal game we win going away. Credit Tilmon and their other big for bothering him

[AviatorX]

People should keep in mind that mizzou is a great defensive team. #11 in kenpom right now and will only move up. The game was ugly because were not a good shooting team and mizzou is great defensively. It was always going to be an ugly game. Just happy to win. Team showed resilience they didn’t have last year. Our biggest problem in this game was tyrique. He was uncharacteristically terrible. If he has a normal game we win going away. Credit Tilmon and their other big for bothering him

Agreed - Tyrique was really, really bad. Which is very surprising considering how consistent he usually is and that Cuonzo Martin decided to bench his best player for the entire first half. Seems pretty unlikely Tyrique will have another game even close to that poor.

[scoscox]

Agreed - Tyrique was really, really bad. Which is very surprising considering how consistent he usually is and that Cuonzo Martin decided to bench his best player for the entire first half. Seems pretty unlikely Tyrique will have another game even close to that poor.

Yea, he just couldn't hit anything for whatever reason. It happens. Unfortunately, we can't afford that from tyrique this year. I was a little surprised Zach didn't get more run, although Trav probably wanted to leave the experienced guys out there, but he had 6 points in 12 minutes and was very effective.

[IM4X]

... yes. Shot 47% in high school. According to steele he’sbeen shooting about 48% in practice and the next guy closest is Bryce Moore at 39%. Kyky s a shooter it’s what he does

Yes.

Steele mentioned the coaches track the 3 point shooting of every player in practice and Kyky is by far the best on the team (close to 50%)... and like you said, Moore is next at 39%.

Remember how Paul worked on his 3pt game last summer and if showed- he was shooting well above 40% from 3 for a stretch last year. Not sure why he has regressed, but it makes one think there is no reason he should not be able to shoot at least close to 40% for the season. He has a very nice stroke.

If Steele can get this team to buy into the idea “Those who are shooting from 3 best will shoot the most every game” this team would be just fine:

• Kyky shoots 6+ 3s a game

• Moore and Scruggs shoot 5+ 3s a game

• Carter, James, Naji, Bishop, Goodin and Freemantle stick to two or less 3s a game-unless they are going in

[AviatorX]

Yes.

Steele mentioned the coaches track the 3 point shooting of every player in practice and Kyky is by far the best on the team (close to 50%)... and like you said, Moore is next at 39%.

Remember how Paul worked on his 3pt game last summer and if showed- he was shooting well above 40% from 3 for a stretch last year. Not sure why he has regressed, but it makes one think there is no reason he should not be able to shoot at least close to 40% for the season. He has a very nice stroke.

If Steele can get this team to buy into the idea “Those who are shooting from 3 best will shoot the most every game” this team would be just fine:

• Kyky shoots 6+ 3s a game

• Moore and Scruggs shoot 5+ 3s a game

• Carter, James, Naji, Bishop, Goodin and Freemantle stick to two or less 3s a game-unless they are going in

I mean, this is just not how basketball works at all (not to mention we certainly don't need such high possession usage from Moore and Tandy). I don't think it's wise to look at the number of shots. I have no problem with Naji shooting 8 threes in the flow of the offense (although hard to imagine he would ever do this to be fair). Bishop, Scruggs and Carter went a combined 0-11 last night, but I don't think anyone (rightfully so) has any issue with the looks they took.

[XU 87]

I assume that moving the 3 line back a foot from last year has also contributed to this team's poor shooting so far.

Carter shot 34% from the three last year, averaging 2.2 attempts per game.

I also agree with the above- Mizzou plays very good defense.

[IM4X]

People should keep in mind that mizzou is a great defensive team. #11 in kenpom right now and will only move up. The game was ugly because were not a good shooting team and mizzou is great defensively. It was always going to be an ugly game. Just happy to win. Team showed resilience they didn’t have last year. Our biggest problem in this game was tyrique. He was uncharacteristically terrible. If he has a normal game we win going away. Credit Tilmon and their other big for bothering him

Tyrique is also a bit shorter than his listed height and he sometimes has trouble against taller bigs with longer wingspans. Hankins was so key last year when that happened. It is also why I hoping Steele might reconsider redshirting Miles this year.

Steele was saying a few days ago (after he had redshirted Miles) that he got the best of Tyrique in practice and how he can get much higher and block better than any other big on the team. He said Miles was the easiest target for teammates to pass the ball- they don’t have to throw a perfect pass. Steele said he is even scoring more. Tyique usually can handle any situation but what if Miles could be the “Hankins” for this team, or at least close to it? He could be a huge asset in certain situations.

[scoscox]

Tyrique is also a bit shorter than his listed height and he sometimes has trouble against taller bigs with longer wingspans. Hankins was so key last year when that happened. It is also why I hoping Steele might reconsider redshirting Miles this year.

Steele was saying a few days ago (after he had redshirted Miles) that he got the best of Tyrique in practice and how he can get much higher and block better than any other big on the team. He said Miles was the easiest target for teammates to pass the ball- they don’t have to throw a perfect pass. Steele said he is even scoring more. Tyique usually can handle any situation but what if Miles could be the “Hankins” for this team, or at least close to it? He could be a huge asset in certain situations.

I was in the camp of letting Dieonte play, but it sounds like he made the decision to redshirt, so gotta live with it.

[BandDad]

Tyrique is also a bit shorter than his listed height and he sometimes has trouble against taller bigs with longer wingspans. Hankins was so key last year when that happened. It is also why I hoping Steele might reconsider redshirting Miles this year.

Steele was saying a few days ago (after he had redshirted Miles) that he got the best of Tyrique in practice and how he can get much higher and block better than any other big on the team. He said Miles was the easiest target for teammates to pass the ball- they don’t have to throw a perfect pass. Steele said he is even scoring more. Tyique usually can handle any situation but what if Miles could be the “Hankins” for this team, or at least close to it? He could be a huge asset in certain situations.

Tyrique has struggled at times against bigger guys because his footwork is not great. He needs to go to the Sean O'Mara school of pump fakes and drop steps and learn to use his left hand better. He is very much right-handed dominant. Freemantle has a better left hand currently than Tyrique.

[nuts4xu]

what if Miles could be the “Hankins” for this team, or at least close to it? He could be a huge asset in certain situations.

Miles isn't strong nor big enough to replicate what Hankins meant to this team last season. Miles is more of a stretch forward than Hankins. They both are shot blockers, so I see the comparison.

Freemantle has been impressive through the first 3 games, and I hope he continues to play more minutes. If Ramsey can crack the rotation, it would be a help down low. It was a bad matchup for Tyrique last night...and he played like crap. Tyrique is going to be a focus of scouting reports and defensive gameplans for our opponents. I am hopeful our depth continues to develop, and look forward to a bounce back game from Tyrique on Friday.

[GoMuskies]

Hankins was quite possibly our best player last year. If Miles could be Hankins right now, he wouldn't be redshirting.

[IM4X]

I mean, this is just not how basketball works at all (not to mention we certainly don't need such high possession usage from Moore and Tandy). I don't think it's wise to look at the number of shots. I have no problem with Naji shooting 8 threes in the flow of the offense (although hard to imagine he would ever do this to be fair). Bishop, Scruggs and Carter went a combined 0-11 last night, but I don't think anyone (rightfully so) has any issue with the looks they took.

So how basketball works is to allow the player who is currently the worst 3 point shooter on the team to continue to jack up as many 3s as he wants as long as he is in the flow... and not to have the two best 3 point shooters (Moore and Tandy) get more looks as Steele has suggested he believes they are going to need to do.

I did not mean to suggest those were the exact number of 3s each takes- no- the quantity of shots is not as important as making sure your best shooters are taking more of them. 0-11 from three is still 0 points which could easily have been 6+ points had they worked it inside.

It is very possible Kyky could get 20+ minutes a game if he can play solid defense.

[IM4X]

Hankins was quite possibly our best player last year. If Miles could be Hankins right now, he wouldn't be redshirting.

I agree with you about Hankins. He was amazing and I only wish he would have been used a little bit more at times. Miles is clearly not at the Hankins level right now. My point is (and even Steele admits to struggling with this) that Miles has legit talent now and is getting better every week. I completely understand stand the concern about him needing to add some weight. But here’s the thing... Steele went off on him and some of the things he was doing the other day in practice and it just makes one wonder (as I know Steele is wondering too) could this kid keep progressing and end up helping the team enough that it would be worth burning the redshirt?

[IM4X]

It was a bad matchup for Tyrique last night...and he played like crap.

IT was a bad matchup. I am not convinced Miles would have had the same type of struggles as Tyrique. Tyrique is stronger than Miles but Tyrique was struggling with finesse moves. Again, Steele mentioned Miles got the better of Jones (and Freemantle) the other day. Steel went off on his improvement on offense, on how high above the rim he can get and on his shot blocking. That says an awful lot. Anyway- This is all speculation - No way of any of us knowing for sure (even Steele is not so sure) whether Miles redshirting is the best thing for the taam. Too bad they donÂ’t allow freshmen to play in at least one game before deciding on a redshirt.

[Drew]

I was in the camp of letting Dieonte play, but it sounds like he made the decision to redshirt, so gotta live with it.

Redshirts are technically declared at the end of the seasons so they could make him eligible if they wanted too.

[JTG]

It is very possible Kyky could get 20+ minutes a game if he can play solid defense.

If, as Steele claims KyKy is a near 50% 3 pt shooter, I'd let him play the whole game, even if he can't guard a lamp post.

[JTG]

Redshirts are technically declared at the end of the seasons so they could make him eligible if they wanted too.

If Miles keeps improving this quickly in practice, I say forget the redshirt and have him play after Xmas break. That would give him 6 more weeks of progression. And if he is good, redshirting him for a potential 4th year is stupid. He'll be gone after 3 years.

[xukeith]

If, as Steele claims KyKy is a near 50% 3 pt shooter, I'd let him play the whole game, even if he can't guard a lamp post.

If KyKy is a negative on defense, he likely won't get many minutes. He will be behind everyone due to his injury but I imagine by January he will be at a normal freshman level of understanding the plays unless he is thinking too much and is slow as all frosh are. He won't contribut more than Trevon did as a frosh. Best case scenario is him averaging 8-10 points(2-3 threes a game).

[xukeith]

People should keep in mind that mizzou is a great defensive team. #11 in kenpom right now and will only move up. The game was ugly because were not a good shooting team and mizzou is great defensively. It was always going to be an ugly game. Just happy to win. Team showed resilience they didn’t have last year. Our biggest problem in this game was tyrique. He was uncharacteristically terrible. If he has a normal game we win going away. Credit Tilmon and their other big for bothering him

good point. Agree 100%

[D-West & PO-Z]

If KyKy is a negative on defense, he likely won't get many minutes. He will be behind everyone due to his injury but I imagine by January he will be at a normal freshman level of understanding the plays unless he is thinking too much and is slow as all frosh are. He won't contribut more than Trevon did as a frosh. Best case scenario is him averaging 8-10 points(2-3 threes a game).

If KyKy averages 10 points a game he had a really good freshman season. Tre averaged 11.

[stammina0721]

But as we all know, the ugliest win is always better than the sexiest loss

[D-West & PO-Z]

But as we all know, the ugliest win is always better than the sexiest loss

Very true. I'd rather a season full the wins last night, than a season full of the K-State losses.

[GoMuskies]

But as we all know, the ugliest win is always better than the sexiest loss

Felt much better last night than I did after K-State in the Sweet Sixteen!

[Masterofreality]

.........I have no problem with Naji shooting 8 threes in the flow of the offense (although hard to imagine he would ever do this to be fair). Bishop, Scruggs and Carter went a combined 0-11 last night, but I don't think anyone (rightfully so) has any issue with the looks they took.

Oh Gawd. Please no with 8 threes a game from Naji. He shot 27% from 3 LAST year. He IS NOT a good shooter from out. He needs to drive and get to the line, kinda like Lord Byron Larkin, who also wasn't a great shooter from out.

Scruggs is not a bad 3 point shooter, and he'll get it back. He shot 38% from 3 last year. Carter shot 34.3% from 3 at OU, so both of them are much better choices. Bishop is a freshman and maybe not the best 3 choice. He shot 33% in high school so, we'll see.

The one Naji made last night was awesome, and give him credit, but it feels like it was the outlier. I've had just about enough "Threeatrics" from Naji.

[UCGRAD4X]

Naji pulled that one out of his a** last night - and I'm damn glad he did - but I hope it never comes to that ever again because I would not like our odds of achieving a similar outcome.

If Tyrique "has trouble" with bigger players like Tilmon - dominating the Big East is going to be difficult. In fact, I'm not all that sure it had as much to do with Tilmon because he was out for so much of the game. I'm curious why Travis took Tyrique out of the game so much at the same time as Tilmon.

Tyrique was just plain OFF no matter who else was in the game. He seemed slow, entirely uninterested and unmotivated. It was weird!

Like the rest of the game, other than the final outcome, I hope I never have to witness such an occurrence again.

[sirthought]

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2019-11-12-19-xavier.html

According to the advanced stats here, Goodin and Jones had the worst defensive and offensive ratings.

Jones just needs confidence going hard at guys for inside shots. He's in there, but look hesitant or slightly slow sometimes. Carter honestly wasn't much better, but he hit some free throws, which helped. They just need to fight through this and figure it out.

My fear is the confidence is shot with Goodin. He's in his fourth year and the same issues keep happening. He's been turning it over the most and with Marshall just being more effective at getting either an assist or a score, Goodin is kind of on the outs, as he's not a good spot shooter. We might be better off with Moore spotting up if Marshall is playing point forward.

[scoscox]

Naji pulled that one out of his a** last night - and I'm damn glad he did - but I hope it never comes to that ever again because I would not like our odds of achieving a similar outcome.

If Tyrique "has trouble" with bigger players like Tilmon - dominating the Big East is going to be difficult. In fact, I'm not all that sure it had as much to do with Tilmon because he was out for so much of the game. I'm curious why Travis took Tyrique out of the game so much at the same time as Tilmon.

Tyrique was just plain OFF no matter who else was in the game. He seemed slow, entirely uninterested and unmotivated. It was weird!

Like the rest of the game, other than the final outcome, I hope I never have to witness such an occurrence again.

no idea why freemantle didn't get more run. he had 6 points and 5 boards in 12 minutes and barely played in the second half. he was our best player efficiency wise

[scoscox]

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2019-11-12-19-xavier.html

According to the advanced stats here, Goodin and Jones had the worst defensive and offensive ratings.

Jones just needs confidence going hard at guys for inside shots. He's in there, but look hesitant or slightly slow sometimes. Carter honestly wasn't much better, but he hit some free throws, which helped. They just need to fight through this and figure it out.

My fear is the confidence is shot with Goodin. He's in his fourth year and the same issues keep happening. He's been turning it over the most and with Marshall just being more effective at getting either an assist or a score, Goodin is kind of on the outs, as he's not a good spot shooter. We might be better off with Moore spotting up if Marshall is playing point forward.

i'm just glad quentin is playing tough d. his offense is what it is, but he's locked in on d and with his size he can really give people problems

[mid major]

Tonight's win was fugly.

[UCGRAD4X]

2nd ugliest win ever?

[X-band '01]

Third? Don't forget X had to dig out of a 22-point hole against East Tennessee State a couple seasons ago.

[xukeith]

The more I analyze this X team, the more I like the idea of playing gritty defense to get more possessions.

Shoot more free throws than opponent attempts. Turn ball over less than 14 times. More possessions = more points and defense will limit opponent offense. Oh more rebounds too.

Do we miss Brad Redford? yikes! Even Bluiett and Macura were bad on defense.