The core 4 question

[JTG]

This whole core4 going to be evaluated by the NBA begs the question: Why did Naji drop out so quickly ? He certainly is not the least talented of the 4. And it occurs to me Ty has little to gain by staying another year. No way he gets drafted, so why not go to Europe and start making money ? Hope I'm wrong and all 4 come back, but I could see Ty and Q heading to Europe.

[xufan02]

They will be back.

[Xavier]

They will be back for one more year. All gone after next year, though.

[Xuperman]

They will be back for one more year. All gone after next year, though.

Nothing is certain from now until the 29th. Hopefully all 4 return but realistically no Paul or Naji for their senior year....no Bryce Moore and unless DJ can be productive this year who knows. So what does 2020-21 look like? Reason for concern IMO. Too many unknowns.

[XUGRAD80]

Nothing is certain from now until the 29th. Hopefully all 4 return but realistically no Paul or Naji for their senior year....no Bryce Moore and unless DJ can be productive this year who knows. So what does 2020-21 look like? Reason for concern IMO. Too many unknowns.

Welcome to the new normal.......

but this isn’t happening just to X, every school with talent good enough to play professionally is going through the same thing. Will they go? Will they stay? Will they transfer? Who do we have coming in as a recruit? As a transfer? How soon will they be ready to play? Every coach is asking the same questions.

[xavierj]

Nothing is certain from now until the 29th. Hopefully all 4 return but realistically no Paul or Naji for their senior year....no Bryce Moore and unless DJ can be productive this year who knows. So what does 2020-21 look like? Reason for concern IMO. Too many unknowns.

After not really having a recruiting class after Mack left, Steele is putting together the best back to back recruiting classes Xavier has ever had. I would imagine they will fine.

[Xville]

Yep most likely the team will be extremely young next year as I dont see paul or naji staying for those senior years. However, they should be fun to watch as there will be quite a bit of talent, just young talent.

[noteggs]

It would be nice if can still get a good sit one who has two years eligibility left. However, Steele said all their focus is now on 2020 recruits during an interview with Adam Baum.

[LOLmickcronin]

IMO if we have guys leaving early to play in Europe or some lesser league that’s a horrible sign for the program. Look at the elite 8 teams this year... other than one and done types most of the top guys were juniors and seniors that stuck around big programs.

If guys aren’t nba caliber then ncaa basketball is by far the best exposure for your game and it would probably actually be worth getting a degree if you’re someone who will still need a job after b-ball is over.

Unless you’re in a top euro league you don’t make much money really. At least not enough to trade A year of top exposure, a college degree, and another year of high end experience for one year of okay money.

Of course these guys should do what’s best for them, but if leaving your program for a flyer in euro ball is considered what’s best it may be on the program.

[XU_Lou]

What do you all make of this tweet from Jon Brady, a "Former Professional Basketball Player":

"Neither Paul Scruggs and Quinten Goodin will be returning to Xavier. HUGE loss for XU and Big East. @HinkleHangover @BarstoolReags @Section_29 @WayButler @ButlerWay"

Dude says "Inside source texted me"

Just a troll???

https://twitter.com/JonnyWholestaff/status/1130899706719211520

[kellernr]

What do you all make of this tweet from Jon Brady, a "Former Professional Basketball Player":

"Neither Paul Scruggs and Quinten Goodin will be returning to Xavier. HUGE loss for XU and Big East. @HinkleHangover @BarstoolReags @Section_29 @WayButler @ButlerWay"

Dude says "Inside source texted me"

Just a troll???

https://twitter.com/JonnyWholestaff/status/1130899706719211520


Hes a Butler troll. ALmost all of his tweets are about Butler or he tags a bunch of butler accounts. Has a whole 38 follwers

[XU_Lou]

Hes a Butler troll. ALmost all of his tweets are about Butler or he tags a bunch of butler accounts. Has a whole 38 follwers

I hope you're right.... However, Q did tweet this the other day that has others also wondering exactly what he meant: https://twitter.com/quentingoodin/status/1128681895989055489

[Muskie4106]

Hes a Butler troll. ALmost all of his tweets are about Butler or he tags a bunch of butler accounts. Has a whole 38 follwers

same guy replied saying I bet Steele leaves if LaVall goes to Michigan. What a joke

[Xville]

Scruggs would be a huge loss for next year. KyKy can replace Q's production and be ten times better at the line.

[scoscox]

shannon has said before that xavier expects all of them to come back. i still think that's probably the case. theirs a chance of someone pulling a kaiser but i doubt it

[GIMMFD]

I hope you're right.... However, Q did tweet this the other day that has others also wondering exactly what he meant: https://twitter.com/quentingoodin/status/1128681895989055489

Eh you never know with tweets, it could be something along the lines of relationship and what not, I wouldn't read too much into it, I have a feeling they'll all come back.

[IM4X]

I’m already a little skeptical just by the way it was written.

"Neither Paul Scruggs and Quinten Goodin will be returning to Xavier.”

What was the next sentence supposed to be? “Both Paul or Q will be playing overseas.”

[XU_Lou]

FYI - tweet from Steve Kyler at Basketball Insiders:

"Some of the guys that jumped out @ProBBallCombine as possible NBA-level players to me — Paul Scruggs (Xavier), Kerwin Roach (Texas), Alex Robinson (TCU), D’Marcus Simons (Georgia State), Chris Silva (South Carolina) and Quinton Goodin (Xavier) — likely two-way/camp guys"

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/1131540508537319424

[kellernr]

FYI - tweet from Steve Kyler at Basketball Insiders:

"Some of the guys that jumped out @ProBBallCombine as possible NBA-level players to me — Paul Scruggs (Xavier), Kerwin Roach (Texas), Alex Robinson (TCU), D’Marcus Simons (Georgia State), Chris Silva (South Carolina) and Quinton Goodin (Xavier) — likely two-way/camp guys"

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/1131540508537319424If they leave came we still get Odom to re-classify ?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Final4]

Certainly doesn't help the situation........Scruggs came in 2nd in the NBA 3-point shooting drills at 80%.

[drudy23]

It's becoming more and more clear that more and more people think Q and Scruggs have NBA potential. That doesn't automatically equate to success, but in the mind of an 18 year old, it probably means it's gonna be really hard to stomach another year of school.

[Xville]

Scruggs leaving would suck but I couldn't blame him. Guy has nba upside for sure.

Q I dont know what the heck those guys are looking at. Hes a decent college player who cant shoot a lick.

[xavierj]

It's becoming more and more clear that more and more people think Q and Scruggs have NBA potential. That doesn't automatically equate to success, but in the mind of an 18 year old, it probably means it's gonna be really hard to stomach another year of school.

Q maybe because he won’t improve any of his prospects but Paul would be dumb to leave now. If he has a big year he can really improve his stock.

[94GRAD]

It's becoming more and more clear that more and more people think Q and Scruggs have NBA potential. That doesn't automatically equate to success, but in the mind of an 18 year old, it probably means it's gonna be really hard to stomach another year of school.

Quentin and Paul are both 21.

[drudy23]

Q I dont know what the heck those guys are looking at. .

Explosive athleticism. Can't teach that.

[drudy23]

Quentin and Paul are both 21.

Pretty sure everyone understood the intent.

[JTG]

Scruggs leaving would suck but I couldn't blame him. Guy has nba upside for sure.

Q I dont know what the heck those guys are looking at. Hes a decent college player who cant shoot a lick.

Unless you're a goon, what does a guy who can't shoot do on an NBA team ?

[noteggs]

Q I dont know what the heck those guys are looking at. Hes a decent college player who cant shoot a lick.

Maybe they observed his 44’6” vertical. Now that’s absurd!

[xu82]

Maybe they observed his 44’6” vertical. Now that’s absurd!

Can he jump over Cintas???

[drudy23]

Can he jump over Cintas???

One foot or two?

[xavierj]

Unless you're a goon, what does a guy who can't shoot do on an NBA team ?

Rajon Rondo? Although much better now, he was below 30% from 3, 8 out of his first 10 years and below 25% 6 of those years. Not sure how he changed his shot but he is 35% or better 4 of the last 5 years.

[bleedXblue]

We've all seen a lot of good players come through Xavier. Some were very clear NBA talents. Q for sure isn't one of them. Kaiser wasn't one of them. Scruggs IMHO isn't one of them. I sure all could play in Europe to some degree........but NBA.....I just dont see it.

[bleedXblue]

Rajon Rondo? Although much better now, he was below 30% from 3, 8 out of his first 10 years and below 25% 6 of those years. Not sure how he changed his shot but he is 35% or better 4 of the last 5 years.

An anomaly..........

[scoscox]

We've all seen a lot of good players come through Xavier. Some were very clear NBA talents. Q for sure isn't one of them. Kaiser wasn't one of them. Scruggs IMHO isn't one of them. I sure all could play in Europe to some degree........but NBA.....I just dont see it.

i disagree about scruggs. scruggs is super long, pretty athletic, can defend pretty well 1-4 and even holds his own against 5's. he shoots really well from everywhere and is a great finisher with both hands at the rim. there's a lot to like about him.

he's been one of the best shooters at the camp so far https://twitter.com/ProBBallCombine/status/1131641820096557056

quentin is just a tantalizing player because he's so big, long, and athletic. unfortunately, he's not a reliable shooter or finisher from basically anywhere and doesn't have the ball handling and decision making to make up for it. still, the dude has an nba body and is an nba level athlete no doubt.

[scoscox]

the most i've heard is that these guys could parlay this into a two way deal or an invite to training camp. if that's what they get out of it, i think it'd be 50/50 on leaving. i think with more exposure next year they could improve their stock. paul could probably be drafted next year

[Xville]

Maybe they observed his 44’6” vertical. Now that’s absurd!

Sure but who cares. Keith Jackson could do the same thing. Q cant even dominate the big east, let alone nba role players

[bleedXblue]

i disagree about scruggs. scruggs is super long, pretty athletic, can defend pretty well 1-4 and even holds his own against 5's. he shoots really well from everywhere and is a great finisher with both hands at the rim. there's a lot to like about him.

he's been one of the best shooters at the camp so far https://twitter.com/ProBBallCombine/status/1131641820096557056

quentin is just a tantalizing player because he's so big, long, and athletic. unfortunately, he's not a reliable shooter or finisher from basically anywhere and doesn't have the ball handling and decision making to make up for it. still, the dude has an nba body and is an nba level athlete no doubt.

Fair enough.......I just see a guy in Scruggs who's 6'3 (which is very small for an NBA SG), doesn't have any part of his game that really jumps out at you and is very inconsistent on the offensive end. He of course can improve and get better and that's exactly why he should come back and play another year in hopes of improving EVERY aspect of his game.

[bleedXblue]

Sure but who cares. Keith Jackson could do the same thing. Q cant even dominate the big east, let alone nba role players

exactly

[scoscox]

Fair enough.......I just see a guy in Scruggs who's 6'3 (which is very small for an NBA SG), doesn't have any part of his game that really jumps out at you and is very inconsistent on the offensive end. He of course can improve and get better and that's exactly why he should come back and play another year in hopes of improving EVERY aspect of his game.

I agree. This is good exposure for both of them either way. If he comes back and has an all big east type year, which i think he will, he'll get drafted easily

also, even if he's only 6'3", he has a 6'10" wingspan, which is huge needless to say

[XU_Lou]

FWIW, Zach Hankins is the only X guy to make the CBS Top 130 prospect list - comes in at 123: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/

[xu82]

FWIW, Zach Hankins is the only X guy to make the CBS Top 130 prospect list - comes in at 123: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/prospect-rankings/

I was amazed at how much I LOVED watching him play. GO ZACH!

[noteggs]

I was amazed at how much I LOVED watching him play. GO ZACH!

Same! Amazing how much he developed last year.

[IM4X]

Yes. Watching Zach play, grow in confidence and elevate his game throughout this past season was a complete joy. It was like watching an actor you’ve never seen before deliver a solid performance in a movie and then an even better one each movie thereafter. I am so bummed he ran out of eligibility.

[Xuperman]

It's becoming more and more clear that more and more people think Q and Scruggs have NBA potential.

http://mavsdraft.com/recapping-the-2019-pro-basketball-combine/

I believe both Q and Paul participated in the PBC earlier this week but finding any summary of their performance is nil to none. This guy puts in his 2 cents, but no mention of any Musketeers even though Paul apparently was killing the 3 ball. Other than the Kyler tweet, does anyone know anything in more detail about our guys at this combine?

[kellernr]

http://mavsdraft.com/recapping-the-2019-pro-basketball-combine/

I believe both Q and Paul participated in the PBC earlier this week but finding any summary of their performance is nil to none. This guy puts in his 2 cents, but no mention of any Musketeers even though Paul apparently was killing the 3 ball. Other than the Kyler tweet, does anyone know anything in more detail about our guys at this combine?I think they both come back but Xwill have a lot to replace after next season. Q and Jones graduate and Scruggs and Naji are both leaving after next season.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[GIMMFD]

http://mavsdraft.com/recapping-the-2019-pro-basketball-combine/

I believe both Q and Paul participated in the PBC earlier this week but finding any summary of their performance is nil to none. This guy puts in his 2 cents, but no mention of any Musketeers even though Paul apparently was killing the 3 ball. Other than the Kyler tweet, does anyone know anything in more detail about our guys at this combine?

I think not hearing news basically means not enough eyes are watching them to report on what they're doing. Probably means they're going to come back, but you never know, it takes that one team to watch them and think "hmm wait a second, there might be something here." Though I don't think either are NBA ready yet, I've learned that the most obvious decision isn't always the one that happens lol.

[whopper]

I saw a tweet from a NBA blogger that I have heard of but can't remember that Scruggs and Q have exceeded expectations.

[Lloyd Braun]

I saw a tweet from a NBA blogger that I have heard of but can't remember that Scruggs and Q have exceeded expectations.

Steve Kyler made a post about them similar to what you are describing.

[LOLmickcronin]

I love these guys but there’s nothing they can do in a secondary combine that’s getting them drafted (especially Q). There are 20 or so guys locked in top 50 picks. There are 10-12 euro players which everyone always forgets who will be in these picks as well.

These guys will either come back, get bad advice and try to get drafted, or figure they’re at least good enough to play ball over seas.

If they leave the program after 2-3 season for European ball I’d be worried for the program.

[xavierj]

I love these guys but there’s nothing they can do in a secondary combine that’s getting them drafted (especially Q). There are 20 or so guys locked in top 50 picks. There are 10-12 euro players which everyone always forgets who will be in these picks as well.

These guys will either come back, get bad advice and try to get drafted, or figure they’re at least good enough to play ball over seas.

If they leave the program after 2-3 season for European ball I’d be worried for the program.

I would agree but if Paul keeps working and has a good year he will be drafted. Out of all the guys in the program he has the best chance to play in the NBA in my opinion. If he has a big year next year, he will be drafted. He is very similar to Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell was kind of pedestrian his freshman year at Louisville and then had a good sophomore season. Paul actually has a better 3 pt % than Mitchell and they are both 6’3” with the same wing span.

[Lloyd Braun]

I would agree but if Paul keeps working and has a good year he will be drafted. Out of all the guys in the program he has the best chance to play in the NBA in my opinion. If he has a big year next year, he will be drafted. He is very similar to Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell was kind of pedestrian his freshman year at Louisville and then had a good sophomore season. Paul actually has a better 3 pt % than Mitchell and they are both 6’3” with the same wing span.

Mitchell was also a true sophomore when he was drafted. Scruggs will be 22 next year... I love Paul but Donovan Mitchell is a horrible comp, sorry.

[scoscox]

Mitchell is also a much better athlete

[xavierj]

Mitchell was also a true sophomore when he was drafted. Scruggs will be 22 next year... I love Paul but Donovan Mitchell is a horrible comp, sorry.

Why because he will be 22? That’s young as shit in the grand scheme of things. Paul can shoot, plays in a great league and is super long. Not sure why it’s a horrible comparison.

[xavierj]

Mitchell is also a much better athlete

Mitchell can apparently jump higher. Paul is actually pretty athletic with speed and quickness. I was surprised Mitchell was only 6’1” without shoes. Paul if he comes back will get drafted.

[GIMMFD]

Mitchell can apparently jump higher. Paul is actually pretty athletic with speed and quickness. I was surprised Mitchell was only 6’1” without shoes. Paul if he comes back will get drafted.

I definitely think Scruggs has the ability to get drafted, he looked really good at times last season, and has some good speed and quickness, and a large wingspan. So he checks some of the boxes that NBA teams are looking for, I want to see if he can continue improving his shot, and make smart decisions when driving, it seemed like at the end of the season when Naji was going off, Scruggs disappeared a little bit, I also want to see him be more assertive even if Naji is dominating, because if both of them get it going together, we'd be damn hard to beat.

[letskeepitreal]

Of the three,I agree that Paul has the most potential. He’s long, can defend and seemingly shoot the three but am pretty sure that he can use another year of seasoning. Also think he can handle the ball better.

[GoMuskies]

If Scruggs is comparable to Donovan Mitchell, Travis Steele did a very poor job last year. I think Scruggs has a shot to carve out a role for himself in the NBA. But he's not going to be a superstar.

[Lloyd Braun]

Why because he will be 22? That’s young as shit in the grand scheme of things. Paul can shoot, plays in a great league and is super long. Not sure why it’s a horrible comparison.

It’s young in the grand scheme I agree but to the NBA it is not. There just aren’t that many 22 year olds that get drafted high. The 2016 draft was pretty weak and had two guys that were “old” drafted relatively high. Kris Dunn and Buddy Hield. You could probably sell me on a Kris Dunn ceiling if I were drunk (which, I am right now) but not Buddy Hield and def not Donovan Mitchell. The only reason to stay is if nobody seems to give any interest and use that as motivation. If he settles on the Kaiser path then so be it...

[Lloyd Braun]

One final comment on guys leaving “early”. If they are good enough to make money playing ball they have a window that is likely very small. Losing one year of income is a big deal.

[Xuperman]

I love these guys but there’s nothing they can do in a secondary combine that’s getting them drafted.

So, basically this PBC is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I wonder who is picking up the tab for airfare and accommodations for all these guys?

[scoscox]

Mitchell can apparently jump higher. Paul is actually pretty athletic with speed and quickness. I was surprised Mitchell was only 6’1” without shoes. Paul if he comes back will get drafted.

i agree, but yea im not saying paul isn't athletic, but mitchell is one of the best athletes in the league. paul is a pretty pedestrian nba level athlete.

[scoscox]

It’s young in the grand scheme I agree but to the NBA it is not. There just aren’t that many 22 year olds that get drafted high. The 2016 draft was pretty weak and had two guys that were “old” drafted relatively high. Kris Dunn and Buddy Hield. You could probably sell me on a Kris Dunn ceiling if I were drunk (which, I am right now) but not Buddy Hield and def not Donovan Mitchell. The only reason to stay is if nobody seems to give any interest and use that as motivation. If he settles on the Kaiser path then so be it...

i don't necessarily think he'll be drafted high, but i do think he'll be drafted, which is a lot better than any of his current options.

[scoscox]

So, basically this PBC is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I wonder who is picking up the tab for airfare and accommodations for all these guys?

that's not entirely true, it helped jp get a two way deal and it helped kaiser get in the chicago g league. and it helps paul and q get a little more exposure with scouts.

[Xuperman]

It's becoming more and more clear that more and more people think Q and Scruggs have NBA potential. That doesn't automatically equate to success, but in the mind of an 18 year old, it probably means it's gonna be really hard to stomach another year of school.

OCCASIONALLY guys thoroughly enjoy the college experience. OCCASIONALLY they want to honor their commitment.....take care of unfinished business and give their all for the program.
Signed Pollyanna

[stammina0721]

I have no idea what some of you are talking about. How does anyone leaving to play in Europe make any testament about the program? That is just silly. If anything, it says something about how the NCAA is failing to keep top talent, but as far as Xavier is concerned it means nothing.

Let's be real. Is some recruit going to say he isn't going to play for X cause guys left to go earn money? Or better yet, would you want Xavier to recruit lesser players so they stay 4 years? It's just silly

[XUGRAD80]

Or better yet, would you want Xavier to recruit lesser players so they stay 4 years? It's just silly

That questions then leads to another question....

Which is more valuable to the programs success.....a players that comes in and only stays 2 years, while playing a moderate level? Or a player that comes in, stays 4 years, and develops into a high level player?

Realistically there is no guarantee that any players will be either of those. There are players that only stay a couple of years, and there are players that have stayed 4 years, with neither ever becoming high level players. But I would contend that historically X has been better served by the players that stay 4 years, than it has been by those that have left early. X really hasn’t had any one and done players that have had great success while at X, or post X. It has had a few that stayed all 4 years and then had long NBA or overseas careers. From a financial point of view, even 1 year in the NBA outweighs several years in most overseas leagues.

If nothing else, from THIS fans perspective, I enjoy watching the players that stay and develop more than I do the ones that have come in and left early.

[Lloyd Braun]

Travis interview (https://twitter.com/theandykatz/status/1133315779846397952?s=12) with Andy Katz starts around 24 minute mark lasts 10 mins.

Travis mentions Dontarius James and a guy to make a big step next year along with a few other tidbits (Tyrique extending range?). Also some joking about Katz picking X 9th last year b

[Xavier]

That questions then leads to another question....

Which is more valuable to the programs success.....a players that comes in and only stays 2 years, while playing a moderate level? Or a player that comes in, stays 4 years, and develops into a high level player?

Realistically there is no guarantee that any players will be either of those. There are players that only stay a couple of years, and there are players that have stayed 4 years, with neither ever becoming high level players. But I would contend that historically X has been better served by the players that stay 4 years, than it has been by those that have left early. X really hasn’t had any one and done players that have had great success while at X, or post X. It has had a few that stayed all 4 years and then had long NBA or overseas careers. From a financial point of view, even 1 year in the NBA outweighs several years in most overseas leagues.

If nothing else, from THIS fans perspective, I enjoy watching the players that stay and develop more than I do the ones that have come in and left early.

Of course you get more joy out of seeing a player grow and develop all four years. I don't really remember any true one and done players at X.

I think a key point is the landscape of overseas bball is completely different these days. It is a much more lucrative option that the successful Xavier teams built around developed 4 year players didn't have. I also think guys are more realistic about their chances at making the NBA. They can head over to play bball and make decent money now or play another year in college then do it. I don't blame them one bit for leaving.

I know you aren't saying this, but for those saying "honor the scholarship" is a bad take, especially right after we have seen Mack and Mick just leave.

[Lloyd Braun]

Scruggs and Jones coming (https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1133384007360684034?s=12) back... no word on Q yet

[GoMuskies]

It would be kind of hilarious if, out of the four guys, Q is the one to not return.

[mistabeecee41]

It would be kind of hilarious if, out of the four guys, Q is the one to not return.

I mean Q just had a kid, so him being the one to leave was actually the most likely scenario the whole time

[GoMuskies]

Didn't know about his kid, so congrats to him on that. Would love to have Q back, of course, as he is an important part of the team, but I think he's just objectively the fourth best player out of these four.

[noteggs]

Well we did discuss personal issues with Q last year and that would explain it. Between this, shoulder separation, new role on team would put anyone’s head on a swivel at his age. Hope he decides to do what’s best for him and his new family.

[MHettel]

Well we did discuss personal issues with Q last year and that would explain it. Between this, shoulder separation, new role on team would put anyone’s head on a swivel at his age. Hope he decides to do what’s best for him and his new family.

Yawn. I hate hearing about excuses for poor play. Q's decision making was horrible. Cant blame that on a shoulder....it's the thing ABOVE his shoulders that was the problem.

Honestly, this is another Kaiser situation. kaiser drove me nuts as a Junior, and i honestly didnt care that he left, but I viewed it as a mistake on his part.

If Q now has a kid, and he thinks his BEST MOVE is to drop out of school before he gets his degree, then i dont know how you talk a guy out of that choice. Dropping out of school to make some money NOW is the shortest-sighted decision he can make. Think long term, Q........

Finish what you started, get the degree, take shot at pro ball after graudation, and then ALWAYS know you have the degree to fall back on when your playing days are over.

[XMuskieFTW]

Yawn. I hate hearing about excuses for poor play. Q's decision making was horrible. Cant blame that on a shoulder....it's the thing ABOVE his shoulders that was the problem.

Honestly, this is another Kaiser situation. kaiser drove me nuts as a Junior, and i honestly didnt care that he left, but I viewed it as a mistake on his part.

If Q now has a kid, and he thinks his BEST MOVE is to drop out of school before he gets his degree, then i dont know how you talk a guy out of that choice. Dropping out of school to make some money NOW is the shortest-sighted decision he can make. Think long term, Q........

Finish what you started, get the degree, take shot at pro ball after graudation, and then ALWAYS know you have the degree to fall back on when your playing days are over.

You know that anyone who leaves early to go pro can come back to school right after they finish their playing career and finish up their degree right? And knowing that, why not get an extra year of basketball pay when you can come back and finish your degree at any time? Sure there are reasons to come back, but I'd argue there are more reasons not to if you can get a solid pay day in Europe.

[Lloyd Braun]

You know that anyone who leaves early to go pro can come back to school right after they finish their playing career and finish up their degree right? And knowing that, why not get an extra year of basketball pay when you can come back and finish your degree at any time? Sure there are reasons to come back, but I'd argue there are more reasons not to if you can get a solid pay day in Europe.

Good luck with this argument. It’s like discussing global warmin... errr .. climate change on this board. *Sarcasm font on* Unless you are a first round pick you shouldnt leave early! No exceptions!

[GoMuskies]

Personally, I think it's basically a coin flip whether to stay or go if going doesn't mean going to the NBA. Obviously, maximizing your earning years is important, and finishing a degree can happen anytime. But on the other hand, being a pro basketball player other than in the NBA seems like it kinda sucks. I think a year of college basketball is generally going to be a better life than a year of non-NBA pro basketball other than not getting paid. Of course, getting paid is pretty key.

So I can certainly understand either decision.

[bleedXblue]

Would be really interesting to see what some of these guys are making....I mean Malcom Bernard was/is playing in Europe....Remy Abell too. Stainbrook etc. All guys who clearly had little hope for the NBA. Are they making enough money to really be worth it for them? Maybe they are just doing it for the experience of living abroad and seeing what other cultures are like. I know some of the higher Euro leagues can pay some pretty big money like Sato, Doellman and Duncan did.

[scoscox]

that clears up why q tweeted that "decisions, decisions" tweet the other day and why it's taking so long. i thought that was a weird tweet considering his prospects, but it makes sense now

[throwbackmuskie]

So in 2015 Derrick Brown was make $1.7M Euros roughly $1.9M. He was one of the highest paid.

Doellman was making $1.8M Euros

[noteggs]

Yawn. I hate hearing about excuses for poor play. Q's decision making was horrible. Cant blame that on a shoulder....it's the thing ABOVE his shoulders that was the problem.

Honestly, this is another Kaiser situation. kaiser drove me nuts as a Junior, and i honestly didnt care that he left, but I viewed it as a mistake on his part.

If Q now has a kid, and he thinks his BEST MOVE is to drop out of school before he gets his degree, then i dont know how you talk a guy out of that choice. Dropping out of school to make some money NOW is the shortest-sighted decision he can make. Think long term, Q........

Finish what you started, get the degree, take shot at pro ball after graudation, and then ALWAYS know you have the degree to fall back on when your playing days are over.

My 3 points in the 3 sentences were:

1. We heard rumors last year of personal issues and now that question has now been answered (having a baby).
2. There was a lot going on in his life last year at his age - fact. Guess I could’ve finished with “we all learn from our challenges and hopefully this makes him a stronger person in life.” Not to infer it as an excuse for his poor performance which you obviously did. So that’s my bad on not clarifying.
3. You’re comment on getting an education I agree with but my point was it’s his decision and not mine and wish him well on what he decides for his family. Think you alluded to this as well.

His decision making at times was horrible and if he comes back I think the coaches will work on it along with his shooting. Let’s face it all the core 4 had a difficult time with their new roles. Not an excuse just facts and even Steele referenced it on the Katz podcast that Lloyd just posted.

[paulxu]

So in 2015 Derrick Brown was make $1.7M Euros roughly $1.9M. He was one of the highest paid.

Doellman was making $1.8M Euros

If you're the 30th pick in the draft, your first 3 years are capped at 1.350, 1.582 and 1.657.

So I would say Doellman and Brown are doing OK. They may also get lodging and tax breaks.

[XMuskieFTW]

If you're the 30th pick in the draft, your first 3 years are capped at 1.350, 1.582 and 1.657.

So I would say Doellman and Brown are doing OK. They may also get lodging and tax breaks.

You don't pay for any housing in European leagues generally. That is provided by the teams, even in the lower leagues. You also get a food stipend in addition to your actual pay.

[LOLmickcronin]

Would be really interesting to see what some of these guys are making....I mean Malcom Bernard was/is playing in Europe....Remy Abell too. Stainbrook etc. All guys who clearly had little hope for the NBA. Are they making enough money to really be worth it for them? Maybe they are just doing it for the experience of living abroad and seeing what other cultures are like. I know some of the higher Euro leagues can pay some pretty big money like Sato, Doellman and Duncan did.

I remember when Malcolm Bernard had his injury they said something about his salary being like 40k or something I believe. Its really a lot lower than you would think unless you’re in a big Spanish, French, Chinese, etc type league.

[STL_XUfan]

So in 2015 Derrick Brown was make $1.7M Euros roughly $1.9M. He was one of the highest paid.

Doellman was making $1.8M Euros

The median income for new grads out of X is $45,920. (https://www.xavier.edu/student-outcomes/index) If Q can pull down more than that overseas and not lose a year of earning capacity, then more power to him. However, if he thinks it is in his best long term interest to come back, then that is cool too.

[MHettel]

You know that anyone who leaves early to go pro can come back to school right after they finish their playing career and finish up their degree right? And knowing that, why not get an extra year of basketball pay when you can come back and finish your degree at any time? Sure there are reasons to come back, but I'd argue there are more reasons not to if you can get a solid pay day in Europe.

Of course I know that. I just dont think i happens all that often.

Lets say Q (or anyone for that matter) has the potential to make some money playing ball overseas. but doesnt really have serious potential to be in the NBA. And lets say he can make $200K per year doing it. And in 10 years, which would be an average length for a pro career, he makes $2M total and now, at age 32, he has to figure out what the heck he's gonna do for the next 30 years to earn a paycheck.

The $2M aint gonna last forever, and knowin gthe "bling" lifestyle of these guys, it wouldnt be surprising if there was very little left after 10 years....


....So your scenario is that this guy is just gonna go from being a pro basketball player to jumping back into school full time? No more income at all, and wives and kids and all that stuff just go on "pause" while the former player spends a year (give or take) to get his degree?

or is it more likely that they CAN'T afford to stop having an income and CANT just drop everything to be a full time student, and now they enter a job market with nothing but basketball experience and "some colleg" and expect to find a job to maintain the lifestyle that they he has become accostomed to????

I say get the degree, play NINE years of pro ball and then enter that job market with the degree in hand. the 200K that he foregoes in year 1 will be MORE that made up for over teh next 30 years with a degree....

[XMuskieFTW]

Of course I know that. I just dont think i happens all that often.

Lets say Q (or anyone for that matter) has the potential to make some money playing ball overseas. but doesnt really have serious potential to be in the NBA. And lets say he can make $200K per year doing it. And in 10 years, which would be an average length for a pro career, he makes $2M total and now, at age 32, he has to figure out what the heck he's gonna do for the next 30 years to earn a paycheck.

The $2M aint gonna last forever, and knowin gthe "bling" lifestyle of these guys, it wouldnt be surprising if there was very little left after 10 years....


....So your scenario is that this guy is just gonna go from being a pro basketball player to jumping back into school full time? No more income at all, and wives and kids and all that stuff just go on "pause" while the former player spends a year (give or take) to get his degree?

or is it more likely that they CAN'T afford to stop having an income and CANT just drop everything to be a full time student, and now they enter a job market with nothing but basketball experience and "some colleg" and expect to find a job to maintain the lifestyle that they he has become accostomed to????

I say get the degree, play NINE years of pro ball and then enter that job market with the degree in hand. the 200K that he foregoes in year 1 will be MORE that made up for over teh next 30 years with a degree....

The European season is only 8 months. He could get his degree in the next offseason or two. Also what is his 10+ year old communication studies degree that he's never done anything with going to suddenly qualify him for that he isn't already qualified for?

Most guys stay in the sport when they retire as a player, because playing the sport for 30 years is a hell of a lot more knowledge than what he learned in 8 classes for his major 10+ years earlier.

[MHettel]

My 3 points in the 3 sentences were:

1. We heard rumors last year of personal issues and now that question has now been answered (having a baby).
2. There was a lot going on in his life last year at his age - fact. Guess I could’ve finished with “we all learn from our challenges and hopefully this makes him a stronger person in life.” Not to infer it as an excuse for his poor performance which you obviously did. So that’s my bad on not clarifying.
3. You’re comment on getting an education I agree with but my point was it’s his decision and not mine and wish him well on what he decides for his family. Think you alluded to this as well.

His decision making at times was horrible and if he comes back I think the coaches will work on it along with his shooting. Let’s face it all the core 4 had a difficult time with their new roles. Not an excuse just facts and even Steele referenced it on the Katz podcast that Lloyd just posted.

I guess I dont think Q had any more personal issues to deal with than the normal college athelete. Im sure other players over the years have dealt with relationships, and kids and life and death and EVERYTHING else in th range of possibilities. But we never heard a thing.....becasue they didnt take it onto the court with them. But since Q sucked last year (the truth, really, if you objectively take it all in), we HAVE to find a reason, and hence we decide upon personal issues to blame it all on.

Again, not personal towards Q. He didnt play well last year. He's facing a decision right now that he's viewing through a short term lens. I hope he gives all perspectives full consideration before he commits to going pro....

[GIMMFD]

The European season is only 8 months. He could get his degree in the next offseason or two. Also what is his 10+ year old communication studies degree that he's never done anything with going to suddenly qualify him for that he isn't already qualified for?

Most guys stay in the sport when they retire as a player, because playing the sport for 30 years is a hell of a lot more knowledge than what he learned in 8 classes for his major 10+ years earlier.

This, he could enter the job market and apply for jobs, get his degree during the off-seasons, etc. or, the more likely route get into coaching by starting out as a grad assistant at a program, and working his way up, etc. Plus we can't really assume that Q is gonna just blow all of the paycheck because it's the norm, because there are some people who invest that money, save it, etc. With Q having a child, he has a lot of other factors to consider than your average 25 year old with millions spending it on flashy things.

[xufan2020]

Looks like Q is back per Rothstein

[noteggs]

I guess I dont think Q had any more personal issues to deal with than the normal college athelete. Im sure other players over the years have dealt with relationships, and kids and life and death and EVERYTHING else in th range of possibilities. But we never heard a thing.....becasue they didnt take it onto the court with them. But since Q sucked last year (the truth, really, if you objectively take it all in), we HAVE to find a reason, and hence we decide upon personal issues to blame it all on.

Again, not personal towards Q. He didnt play well last year. He's facing a decision right now that he's viewing through a short term lens. I hope he gives all perspectives full consideration before he commits to going pro....

I guess what is lost here, my original post (including last) was not intended to excuse his poor performance last year at all. Just trying to highlight what happened and what decisions he may face in the future. Yes personal stuff happens to all college students including death, pregnancy and other. I should know because my Mom died 5 days before my fall semester finals during my Freshman year. Life comes at you hard sometimes. As mentioned, will Q grow and learn from his challenges? Hope so...

[xu82]

I guess what is lost here, my original post (including last) was not intended to excuse his poor performance last year at all. Just trying to highlight what happened and what decisions he may face in the future. Yes personal stuff happens to all college students including death, pregnancy and other. I should know because my Mom died 5 days before my fall semester finals during my Freshman year. Life comes at you hard sometimes. As mentioned, will Q grow and learn from his challenges? Hope so...

Yikes! So sorry! I’d have given you an A, then give you the rest of your years to determine how much of a mess you are at your core. :-)

Life isn’t always easy, but we all just do the best we can.

[xukeith]

Good luck with this argument. It’s like discussing global warmin... errr .. climate change on this board. *Sarcasm font on* Unless you are a first round pick you shouldnt leave early! No exceptions!

As much as I am selfish and want all players to stay 4 years for X being successful, I would leave as a frosh, sophomore or junior if I was confident I could make good $$ as I am in the prime physical shape of my life and still get a degree within ages 20-25. It would be a win win to make solid money, help family, save and invest tons, then pick up a degree during down time and continue playing for $.

I am no fan of speculating Q's personal life, but I know he is very valuable and is great with assists and driving to the basket. His defense is very solid too. Poor shooter? Of course, but I will take a senior over a transfer or a frosh recruit who have no clue how to play D1 high level bball.

[atljar]

Banners on the parkway reports Q will be back....

[xukeith]

Banners on the parkway reports Q will be back....
Yep. Saw on Twitter the sources saying he will come back. This is huge!

[Xville]

That questions then leads to another question....

Which is more valuable to the programs success.....a players that comes in and only stays 2 years, while playing a moderate level? Or a player that comes in, stays 4 years, and develops into a high level player?

Realistically there is no guarantee that any players will be either of those. There are players that only stay a couple of years, and there are players that have stayed 4 years, with neither ever becoming high level players. But I would contend that historically X has been better served by the players that stay 4 years, than it has been by those that have left early. X really hasn’t had any one and done players that have had great success while at X, or post X. It has had a few that stayed all 4 years and then had long NBA or overseas careers. From a financial point of view, even 1 year in the NBA outweighs several years in most overseas leagues.

If nothing else, from THIS fans perspective, I enjoy watching the players that stay and develop more than I do the ones that have come in and left early.

As a fan, I enjoy watching the development as well over four years. However, I think this is going to be less and less especially if the g league becomes a viable minor league system which there are discussions it may head that way. I was just thinking of roster turnover for x for next year and it probably includes scruggs, naji along with moore, Jones, q. I believe this is the new normal.

[bleedXblue]

As a fan, I enjoy watching the development as well over four years. However, I think this is going to be less and less especially if the g league becomes a viable minor league system which there are discussions it may head that way. I was just thinking of roster turnover for x for next year and it probably includes scruggs, naji along with moore, Jones, q. I believe this is the new normal.

And the NBA talking like in 2022, they will allow frosh to be eligible.......

I dont like any of this b/c it diminishes the quality of college basketball....IMHO

[Xville]

And the NBA talking like in 2022, they will allow frosh to be eligible.......

I dont like any of this b/c it diminishes the quality of college basketball....IMHO

I get your point but the quality of college basketball has been diminishing since the 80s/90s due to players leaving early or not going to college at all etc and presumably we still all love it.

[LOLmickcronin]

And the NBA talking like in 2022, they will allow frosh to be eligible.......

I dont like any of this b/c it diminishes the quality of college basketball....IMHO

I agree. And recruiting may have to change to reflect this. You will probably need to actually shoot for a couple highly touted recruits, but then identify several 2-3 star types that are really good at one or two things but that you can keep for four years to actually build a winner around. Virginia and Texas tech we’re both set up this way this year.

[Lloyd Braun]

Yea great idea, let’s aim for players not as talented! Ridiculous

[XUGRAD80]

And the NBA talking like in 2022, they will allow frosh to be eligible.......

I dont like any of this b/c it diminishes the quality of college basketball....IMHO

Maybe....but would that actually lead to any less interest in the college game?

[Joel]

Yea great idea, let’s aim for players not as talented! Ridiculous

I know he is coming off a down year, but landing Q instead of Kobi Simmons was a good thing for this program. The more talented dude isn't always the right fit.

[bleedXblue]

Maybe....but would that actually lead to any less interest in the college game?

I dont know.........but a product with less big stars and not as much talent certainly cant HELP the game......can it?

[XUGRAD80]

I dont know.........but a product with less big stars and not as much talent certainly cant HELP the game......can it?

“STARS” are relative....there are dozens of people playing professional bb all over the world that were not huge college basketball “stars”, yet are very talented. Competing against other players, of a similar or lesser talent level, the would be “stars”. Who was the kid from Murray State, before this year? Curry was not a nationally known player before he went off in the NCAA tourney. Who ever heard of Hanky before this year?

I’m of the opinion that parity in the college game would be better than seeing the same old teams year after year in the F4.

[Lloyd Braun]

I know he is coming off a down year, but landing Q instead of Kobi Simmons was a good thing for this program. The more talented dude isn't always the right fit.

Goodin was a 4 star top 100 recruit, not a 2-3 star previous poster was suggesting X target. More times than not 5 star recruits are better to get than 4 star recruits so I would say Goodin vs Simmons is the exception IMO. And the dropoff from Simmons to Goodin is < the dropoff from Goodin to a 2-3 star.

[surfxu]

I’m of the opinion that parity in the college game would be better than seeing the same old teams year after year in the F4.

I'd be OK if people got bored of seeing Xavier in the Final Four year after year.
Personally, I'm very happy Q came back. Evidently there must have been something to hang his hat on to keep him undecided until the last minute... so maybe that means his poised for a good season. Who knows... shots start falling more, turnovers drop a bit... all of a sudden the haters will be singing his praises.
Excited that we've got all 4 coming back. That's some solid experience returning.

[bleedXblue]

“STARS” are relative....there are dozens of people playing professional bb all over the world that were not huge college basketball “stars”, yet are very talented. Competing against other players, of a similar or lesser talent level, the would be “stars”. Who was the kid from Murray State, before this year? Curry was not a nationally known player before he went off in the NCAA tourney. Who ever heard of Hanky before this year?

I’m of the opinion that parity in the college game would be better than seeing the same old teams year after year in the F4.

I'm going to watch regardless, but if you think that the best frosh not playing college ball anymore and guys leaving early b/c of developmental leagues and Euro leagues that pay very well......aren't going to impact the game, you're wrong.

The best "available" players are still going to go to Duke, UNC and Kansas. I don't see parity, I just see us a little further down the stream of talent that will end up at X.

[LOLmickcronin]

Yea great idea, let’s aim for players not as talented! Ridiculous

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying target some top guys and some guys you know are good but will stay four years. All you have to do is look at how nova faired when they had four year guys like jalen Brunson hang around vs this year trying to rebuild with 5 star guys that all look to leave in 1-2 years. Duke has been more successful in the years where they have 2-3 juniors/seniors contributing along with their high profile young guys too.

[Lloyd Braun]

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying target some top guys and some guys you know are good but will stay four years. All you have to do is look at how nova faired when they had four year guys like jalen Brunson hang around vs this year trying to rebuild with 5 star guys that all look to leave in 1-2 years. Duke has been more successful in the years where they have 2-3 juniors/seniors contributing along with their high profile young guys too.

Brunson was a 5 star recruit.

[IM4X]

Banners on the parkway reports Q will be back....

Wonderful news!!!

Welcome back to the final Core 4 Musketeer. Truly excited to know they will all be back together for one more year.

Q is going to be Good-in just about every game next season. I honestly believe it. He and his teammates will learn from all of last year’s struggles and mistakes. They’ll come out more focused and with better chemistry next season. They’’ll trust each other more. They’’ll be better leaders. They’’ll play much smarter individually and as a team... and they’ll be even more determined to win the BE and position themselves for a deep run in the tournament.

[XUGRAD80]

I'm going to watch regardless, but if you think that the best frosh not playing college ball anymore and guys leaving early b/c of developmental leagues and Euro leagues that pay very well......aren't going to impact the game, you're wrong.

The best "available" players are still going to go to Duke, UNC and Kansas. I don't see parity, I just see us a little further down the stream of talent that will end up at X.

I agree that it may impact the game....but how? And how will that effect on the “game” effect the overall experience of the fans and the players? I guess I just think that if the overall experience remains on a par with what it is now, it won’t make a difference.

[Xuperman]

There are some that believe once the Big 12 makes it’s inevitable expansion and the other P5 conferences complete any additional realignment, they will break away from the incompetent NCAA governing body and form their own. Football and the accompanying $$$ of course, would be the impetus for this move along with some form of “pay to play”. This is where D1 basketball would go through a profound change.

But yeah, this ever expanding revolving door reality that we are currently seeing can only be viewed as a detriment IMO.

[xudash]

There are some that believe once the Big 12 makes it’s inevitable expansion and the other P5 conferences complete any additional realignment, they will break away from the incompetent NCAA governing body and form their own. Football and the accompanying $$$ of course, would be the impetus for this move along with some form of “pay to play”. This is where D1 basketball would go through a profound change.

But yeah, this ever expanding revolving door reality that we are currently seeing can only be viewed as a detriment IMO.

There are also those that KNOW, including people within the P5 that an NCAA Tournament comprised only of P5 schools will not make the grade:

1. 4 16-team conferences (as an example) produces 64 members, which would lead to a tournament that starts out with 32 games = content cut in half.

2. It would lose its David v Goliath appeal.

3. Casual viewership would implode.

4. It would be a very bad move politically.

B12 expansion will come from where? They couldn't make it happen recently with teams outside the existing P5, including Houston.

The world of media is changing dramatically through technological innovation.

There are a number of schools in the P5 that are running red ink even with their handsome conference distributions.

Interesting times - - now and within the next 5 years.

[XUGRAD80]

The 64 team/16 team per conference idea is being floated in the interests of Football.

I think that it is very possible that schools interested in it would just move their football programs out from under NCAA control, while leaving other programs still playing under NCAA jurisdiction.

But as you say, it’s going to be very interesting to see what actually happens in the next 5-10 years.

[MHettel]

1. 4 16-team conferences (as an example) produces 64 members, which would lead to a tournament that starts out with 32 games = content cut in half.



Sorry, not following. How would the content be cut in half? Not counting the play in games, isnt it exactly the same? what am i missing that results in the content being cut in half?

[Xuperman]

This thread has officially been highjacked! There are at least 2 schools of thought and you just made the case for the status quo. However FOOTBALL MONEY is driving any alternative scenario. Nearly ALL of the BIG TV revenue is generated thru the P5. The football championship playoff is 100% rigged making it nearly impossible for a non P5 team get a shot, SO It’s already an exclusive club in that respect.

The Big 12 has not expanded because TEXAS FOOTBALL has massive influence. If they can come up with a B12 TV network that is agreeable with UT, they will expand. UCF is the hot commodity and would be a nice fit. UC, Memphis, BSU, Houston or even BYU would be attractive additions. I could even see Nebraska returning to the B12 and Norte Dame joining the B10.....the Irish would be part of any P5 split.

As far as D1 hoops is concerned, in a world where the P5 split from the rest, I could see 2 separate 32 team tournaments where the top 2-4 from each meet for the national championship. This would keep the David/Goliath charm intact and perhaps even enhance it.

This is all speculation. Who knows what the future holds but the fact is, the current NCAA system is severely flawed and in need of drastic reform one way or another.

[kellernr]

Jones is now #4

[JTG]

I think it's more likely football, splits off, which actually with the championship, they have already done. And the rest of the sports stay under the NCAA umbrella.

[GIMMFD]

This thread has officially been highjacked! There are at least 2 schools of thought and you just made the case for the status quo. However FOOTBALL MONEY is driving any alternative scenario. Nearly ALL of the BIG TV revenue is generated thru the P5. The football championship playoff is 100% rigged making it nearly impossible for a non P5 team get a shot, SO It’s already an exclusive club in that respect.

The Big 12 has not expanded because TEXAS FOOTBALL has massive influence. If they can come up with a B12 TV network that is agreeable with UT, they will expand. UCF is the hot commodity and would be a nice fit. UC, Memphis, BSU, Houston or even BYU would be attractive additions. I could even see Nebraska returning to the B12 and Norte Dame joining the B10.....the Irish would be part of any P5 split.

As far as D1 hoops is concerned, in a world where the P5 split from the rest, I could see 2 separate 32 team tournaments where the top 2-4 from each meet for the national championship. This would keep the David/Goliath charm intact and perhaps even enhance it.

This is all speculation. Who knows what the future holds but the fact is, the current NCAA system is severely flawed and in need of drastic reform one way or another.

The Longhorns couldn't give a shit less about the TV money they get for a B12 TV deal mainly due to the fact that they have The Longhorn Network, anything else they make from the Big 12 is the cherry on top, they generated around $219 million in revenue in 2018, they don't need the TV deal to be successful. However you are right that Texas and Oklahoma basically run the conference. Texas played a big role in making sure Houston didn't get in due to it allows Texas to go into a fertile Houston recruiting ground and say, "hey we play Power 5 football, we compete for national championships, the odds of that in a G5 scenario are slim," and pluck the best recruits. There's basically two school of thoughts to the Big 12 ordeal at this point:

Either Texas and Oklahoma leave, joining either the Pac 12/Big 10, essentially blowing up the conference as a "power conference" and requiring them to pluck out whoever the Big 12 can find to replace them, or the entire conference disbands and get split up into the various conferences creating a "Core 4" almost for football spread amongst the Pac 12, Big 10, SEC, and ACC. Though I'm not sure how logical that really is, it is something that could happen.

Or they expand into markets they know can be successful. UCF is attractive because it's the largest public institution in the States, it opens up a Florida market, where though Texas and Oklahoma have no trouble recruiting, they can now sell kids on guaranteed games in their home state that their families can watch, also will be interesting to keep an eye on Memphis with Penny re-energizing the basketball program, and seeing if Mike Norvell can keep Memphis football at the rate they were trending when Fuente was head coach, last year was a down year, but he did win 10 games in his first season. Right now the Big 12 is content because the TV deal negotiation is soon, this allows the schools that aren't Texas to generate more income rather than have to split it with a couple other schools, but if they can negotiate a higher paying deal, I definitely could see them expanding.

[xuwin]

Unless you're a goon, what does a guy who can't shoot do on an NBA team ?

Draymond Green?

[Xuperman]

The Longhorns couldn't give a shit less about the TV money they get for a B12 TV deal mainly due to the fact that they have The Longhorn Network, anything else they make from the Big 12 is the cherry on top, they generated around $219 million in revenue in 2018, they don't need the TV deal to be successful.

The Longhorn Network has always been viewed as a selfish money grab by all 9 of the other B12 schools. In fact, it was a key reason A&M and Nebraska bolted. They will eventually be forced to play nice with others and agree to a B12 network. Once they get there, expansion to other large markets should follow.

[xudash]

Sorry, not following. How would the content be cut in half? Not counting the play in games, isnt it exactly the same? what am i missing that results in the content being cut in half?

It wouldn't. I f'd up and typed too fast with a thought.

Content would remain at 32 games, but with the loss of the play-in games (who cares).

Content wouldn't be cut in half, but viewership and ratings would take major hits.

[muskienick]

Wouldn't the most negative aspect of the whole situation be that the 64-team post-season Tourney would include the 32 teams that finished in the bottom half of their respective conferences? You'd wind up with a huge bunch of games that would be as fun as watching paint dry or, even worse, Kathy Bates in a skimpy bikini before she went on her recent diet.

[xudash]

Wouldn't the most negative aspect of the whole situation be that the 64-team post-season Tourney would include the 32 teams that finished in the bottom half of their respective conferences? You'd wind up with a huge bunch of games that would be as fun as watching paint dry or, even worse, Kathy Bates in a skimpy bikini before she went on her recent diet.

Does that diet matter that much in this particular situation?

[GIMMFD]

The Longhorn Network has always been viewed as a selfish money grab by all 9 of the other B12 schools. In fact, it was a key reason A&M and Nebraska bolted. They will eventually be forced to play nice with others and agree to a B12 network. Once they get there, expansion to other large markets should follow.

There's no doubt it's viewed as negative by the rest of the conference, and the reason that A&M and Nebraska left, but I still think Texas and Oklahoma hold the cards no matter what. They bring in the most revenue, they bring in prestige in numerous athletic programs, and have a strangle-hold on most of the conference. That's the whole school of thought that Texas and Oklahoma will leave the B12 to go to the PAC or something of that sort, because they don't want to get rid of the Longhorn Network due to the sheer amount of revenue they bring in from that alone. It's basically, play nice with Texas, and see what happens with Big12 TV rights, or they end up crippling the conference by leaving. A double-edged sword for the rest of the votes from University Presidents.