Is anyone else tired of this?

[stammina0721]

Big East teams except for Villanova and Xavier are the biggest postseason frauds of all time. Every year the other teams not named Nova or X don't just lose in the post season but get absolutely embarrassed. Marquette St. John's and Seton Hall should be ashamed of themselves for losing the way they did. So should Georgetown for losing at home to Harvard. Whenever Georgetown or Creighton make the big dance they get equally as embarrassed. These other programs are absolute jokes.

I would like to know what the Big East NCAA tournament record is if you took Xavier and Nova out of the equation since realignment. My guess is the record is embarrassing.

[GoMuskies]

Butler has remained pretty solid on the NCAA Tournament front for the most part. But the others have sucked, and Xavier and Villanova have had their fair share of early exits with high seeds, as well.

[xu82]

Better question: Is anyone NOT tired of it???

[Xavier]

I'm not sure you should include Xavier with Villanova. Xavier has been pretty bad, too.

I remember when X was in the A-10 and Big East would more often than not have a horrible tournament I'd be telling my UC friends how overrated the Big East was. Not much has changed outside of Nova in regards to the tournament. Creighton/Xavier have each had horrible flame outs as high seeds.

[Xville]

Need better coaching, that is really what it comes down to. I feel confident in Steele, Wright, Willard and possibly Ewing. The rest are average to complete crap.

[xumuskies08]

The New Big East as a whole is currently 32-29 in the NCAA tournament. Nova is 16-3. Xavier is 7-5. Butler is 5-4. Everyone else is 4-17.

YIKES.

[X-band '01]

1 win for Creighton, 1 win for Providence, 1 win for Georgetown and 1 win for Seton Hall. Not great, but at least the league doesn't have the dead weight that the A-10 did.

Marquette was a big disappointment compared to where they started this year.

[Muskie]

This thread seems misplaced in a year where X is sitting home watching the tournament?

[GoMuskies]

This thread seems misplaced in a year where X is sitting home watching the tournament?

And one year after Xavier lost in the second round as a #1 seed.

[stammina0721]

I'm not sure you should include Xavier with Villanova. Xavier has been pretty bad, too.

I remember when X was in the A-10 and Big East would more often than not have a horrible tournament I'd be telling my UC friends how overrated the Big East was. Not much has changed outside of Nova in regards to the tournament. Creighton/Xavier have each had horrible flame outs as high seeds.

My rationale for saying X and Nova...

1. Xavier is over .500 in the tourney since realignment.
2. While X is in the NIT the at least won.
3. X is always a team people know can advance no matter what

My point is based off of more than this year. Every team loses as a higher seed, but as another post showed the Big East is 4-17. Not only is that abysmal, but the manner they lose is disgusting. Marquette and Seton Hall looked like they didn't belong on the same floor with two lower seeded teams. I think we have to really start questioning the true quality of the Big East outside of Xavier and Nova.

[stammina0721]

If I am a program who draws any Big East team outside of Xavier or Nova I am jumping for joy because I know they won't show up. They hardly ever do

[MHettel]

100% of the games played have a loser.
67 out of 68 teams in the tournament will lose.

Overall, the conference is above .500

Can you do this same research on the other normal "multi-bid conferences"?

Calculate, by year, the % of the teams which made the Dance.


Then Calculate the "multi-year" winning percentages of those conferences over the same time period as the BE.

Then back out the "juggernaught" teams in those conferences to arrive at the winning percentage of the rest.

My guess is that only the ACC would have a higher rate of participation and better winning % that the BE. Possibly the Big 10.

Kansas CARRIES the B12. UK CARRIES the SEC. PAC 12 is horrible....

Its all about context.

But Yes, I am fucking sick of it.

[scoscox]

My rationale for saying X and Nova...

1. Xavier is over .500 in the tourney since realignment.
2. While X is in the NIT the at least won.
3. X is always a team people know can advance no matter what

My point is based off of more than this year. Every team loses as a higher seed, but as another post showed the Big East is 4-17. Not only is that abysmal, but the manner they lose is disgusting. Marquette and Seton Hall looked like they didn't belong on the same floor with two lower seeded teams. I think we have to really start questioning the true quality of the Big East outside of Xavier and Nova.

Wofford was the higher seed. people shouldn't overreact to this year. it was always going to be a bad year. the conference will be loaded next year

[American X]

Did someone seriously complain about our conference mates actually making the NCAA Tournament???

Recall, Fordham, Duquesne, LaSalle, George Washington, St. Bonaventure, Rhode Island, Richmond, etc.

[XUBison]

...I think we have to really start questioning the true quality of the Big East outside of Xavier and Nova.

No, we don’t.

[MHettel]

I believe every BE team finished the year with a .500 record or better. I also beleive that is the only time that has EVER happened.

AND, I'm not sure, but did EVERY Big East Team get invited to a post-season tournament? Has that ever happened before.

[XUBison]

Need better coaching, that is really what it comes down to. I feel confident in Steele, Wright, Willard and possibly Ewing. The rest are average to complete crap.


Hmmm... an irrational post in an irrational thread. This NIT thing must be taking its toll on people.

[bleedXblue]

You cant put Xavier in the same sentence with Nova. Yeah, we have been better than most BE programs......but come on.

[Xville]

I believe every BE team finished the year with a .500 record or better. I also beleive that is the only time that has EVER happened.

AND, I'm not sure, but did EVERY Big East Team get invited to a post-season tournament? Has that ever happened before.

All that means is that there was a bunch of mediocrity across the board. Take a look at the non-con and see who be teams beat that were worth a darn outside of the hall marquette or nova, there wasnt a lot. Nova is the only team that won in the ncaa. It was a rebuilding year for the conference. I'm good with that but.....

The be records in the tourney outside of nova in this new be are something worth paying attention to. In order to keep respect at a high level from media etc, the teams outside of nova have to perform better in the tourney. Period.

[stammina0721]

I didn't do the numbers research someone else did. I am pretty sure the winning percentages for most other power conferences are better than 19%.

[MHettel]

I didn't do the numbers research someone else did. I am pretty sure the winning percentages for most other power conferences are better than 19%.

Ok. Someone else did the number research. Apparently, you saw it. where is it? Can i See it?

and where is this 19% coming from? Is this the winning % of the BE schools after you back out the most successful 2 programs? Seems convienient.

What I see here is an emotional response to a 1-3 NCAA first round for the BE. You are concerned that somehow the "lackluster performance" of the BE will somehow diminsh the conference and as a result will tarnish XU, who is NOT part of the problem. Do i have that right?

And yet, you could look towards the PAC 12, whose conference tourney champ was awarded a 12 seed. And their regular season champ is a 6 (or is a 7?), and their 3rd team was a PIG pick. So 25% of that conference made it in. Or, said differntly, 75% of the conference DIDNT EVEN GET A CHANCE to lose a game....hmmm.

I'll come with some numbers later.

When you have emotion, at least see if there are some numbers to back you up.

But, AGAIN, do I wish the BE did better in the tourney? HELL YES. But it's not the big blemish that you are presenting it as....

[whopper]

There is so much woofing by the announcers on TV (Walton, Dakich, Greenburg, etc) about meaningless comparisons. Just clickbait if on the internet and watching another Corona ad with bathing suit clad models. I am looking forward to Sunday and (maybe) another MSG game next weekend that I can go to.

[xuwin]

Much ado about nothing.

[xumuskies08]

Not saying my numbers are perfect (counting while watching games is not ideal), but I did a quick tally of each major conference’s tourney records starting with the 2013-2014 season (including so far this year)...

ACC - 71-36 (.664) on 44 bids
SEC - 43-25 (.632) on 30 bids (UK is 16-5)
B10 - 44-28 (.611) on 39 bids
B12 - 44-35 (.557) on 40 bids (KU is 13-5)
P12 - 29-24 (.547) on 27 bids
BE - 32-29 (.525) on 32 bids (Nova is 16-3)

Even with Nova’s dominance, the New Big East has the worst winning percentage of any major conference in the tournament.

[GIMMFD]

I mean obviously I don't expect everyone from the Big East to be in the Elite 8 or anything like that, but I feel like we do generally have poor showings, not even winning the first game often. We should have gotten 2 in the Sweet 16 last year, For the UC Irvine comparison, that's all good and dandy, but Kansas State made the Elite 8 last year, Big East teams outside of Nova last year? We lost in 2nd round, Seton Hall lost in 2nd round, Providence lost in 1st round, Creighton lost in 1st round, Providence in 2nd round. The Big 12 had WVU in the Sweet 16, Texas Tech in the Elite 8, Kansas in the Final 4, etc. Just a couple better showings of some Sweet 16s and what not would be nice, but I just don't really have faith in us advancing these days, whether it be poor match-ups, poor preparation, I'm not terribly sure, but it'd be nice to see it get fixed!

[stammina0721]

I mean obviously I don't expect everyone from the Big East to be in the Elite 8 or anything like that, but I feel like we do generally have poor showings, not even winning the first game often. We should have gotten 2 in the Sweet 16 last year, For the UC Irvine comparison, that's all good and dandy, but Kansas State made the Elite 8 last year, Big East teams outside of Nova last year? We lost in 2nd round, Seton Hall lost in 2nd round, Providence lost in 1st round, Creighton lost in 1st round, Providence in 2nd round. The Big 12 had WVU in the Sweet 16, Texas Tech in the Elite 8, Kansas in the Final 4, etc. Just a couple better showings of some Sweet 16s and what not would be nice, but I just don't really have faith in us advancing these days, whether it be poor match-ups, poor preparation, I'm not terribly sure, but it'd be nice to see it get fixed!

And this is all I am saying. Some guys just don't get it. It's not just the losses that are bothering, but the manner of loss. 20 point losses to Murray State from the team that was a Big East front runner all year in the games biggest stage is worrisome when you include an 18 point loss by a team in our conference final.

This is not the only time. Creighton, Seton Hall and so on have been embarrassed on a yearly basis in the tournament.

This also is not knee jerk. It is a constant result almost every year since realignment. This is 5 years of data showing this trend. Providence, St. John's , Georgetown, Seton Hall and so on have combined for a whopping 4-17 record.

P.S. I get 19% from the fact that 4-17 means other Big East teams have won 4 of the 21 total games ... Pretty basic math from that point on

Now the point can be made that a conference should not be defined by a one and done tournament. I personally do not agree with that statement but am willing to listen to that defense.

[muethibp]

It was pretty entertaining but it’s readily apparent now that the BE kinda sucked this year.

[stammina0721]

I'll never get tired of seeing Wisconsin getting beat

[stammina0721]

By the way.. we talk shit about the PAC-12 but they have 2 of 3 teams in the round of 32. Way better than what the supposedly Big East can say. It pisses me off saying this but five years of data show that outside of X and Nova the Big East is nothing but frauds. How can we way the PAC-12 blows when they advance and we are one and done

[Blue Blooded-05]

You cant put Xavier in the same sentence with Nova. Yeah, we have been better than most BE programs......but come on.

How’s this for putting them in the same sentence:

Between them, Xavier and Villanova have won 2 of the last 3 National Championships

Can’t argue with facts

[kane79]

so outside of X and Nova, how many elite 8's as a conference? how many sweet 16's? I could be mistaken but I think 1 possibly?

[Joel]

I'll be honest, it doesn't bother me. On some level I know it's good for Xavier if the rest of the conference does well in the tournament, but the rest is just talking heads chattering. Xavier's March reputation definitely doesn't hurt it in recruiting. If, say, Butler's hurts them, I'm okay with that. I just want to beat those teams, find a way in, and advance.

[Xville]

I'll be honest, it doesn't bother me. On some level I know it's good for Xavier if the rest of the conference does well in the tournament, but the rest is just talking heads chattering. Xavier's March reputation definitely doesn't hurt it in recruiting. If, say, Butler's hurts them, I'm okay with that. I just want to beat those teams, find a way in, and advance.

I think it's a really big deal for the conference to do well in the tournament. This is when most people watch college basketball...unlike us rabid fans, college basketball is mostly watched after the super bowl and peaks in march.

Doing well in march is extremely important for reputation, money etc which leads toward more exposure, more money and on and on. Being a d1 basketball only league, it is extremely important to do well in march for the viability of the conference.

[tacopizza885]

Honestly (always dangerous), I would say we are in a much better position than we were a decade ago. Furthermore, until we reach a Final 4 or Championship Game, I think it's ridiculous to pass judgement on anyone else in the conference. Like it or not, my two cents. Look in the mirror.

A10 is dead.
AAC is suffering.

We've got Nova, and great looking teams (conference) for '19-'20. We are lucky to be in this league.

[Xville]

Honestly (always dangerous), I would say we are in a much better position than we were a decade ago. Furthermore, until we reach a Final 4 or Championship Game, I think it's ridiculous to pass judgement on anyone else in the conference. Like it or not, my two cents. Look in the mirror.

A10 is dead.
AAC is suffering.

We've got Nova, and great looking teams (conference) for '19-'20. We are lucky to be in this league.

Agreed with the thoughts on x. I dont think x has contributed their share in the tourney either. A 1 and a 2 seed not getting out of the first weekend is not great.

[Juice]

Honestly (always dangerous), I would say we are in a much better position than we were a decade ago. Furthermore, until we reach a Final 4 or Championship Game, I think it's ridiculous to pass judgement on anyone else in the conference. Like it or not, my two cents. Look in the mirror.

A10 is dead.
AAC is suffering.

We've got Nova, and great looking teams (conference) for '19-'20. We are lucky to be in this league.

I don’t know if the AAC is suffering. They may improve with what appear to be good coaching hires in Hurley and Penny.

[bleedXblue]

I don’t know if the AAC is suffering. They may improve with what appear to be good coaching hires in Hurley and Penny.

Yeah, The AAC is actually a pretty good b-bball conference with some good potential. If Memphis and UCONN improve that bodes very well for them. Houston has really been a huge surprise. Gotta give Samson credit there. Wichita State is a wild card. I don't know if Marshall can keep that going at the level he had it for several years. UCF is a flash in the pan. Temple is just goign to be Temple. The bottom of the league really hurts them.......but the top is and can be pretty good.

[basket]

Big East teams except for Villanova and Xavier are the biggest postseason frauds of all time. Every year the other teams not named Nova or X don't just lose in the post season but get absolutely embarrassed. Marquette St. John's and Seton Hall should be ashamed of themselves for losing the way they did. So should Georgetown for losing at home to Harvard. Whenever Georgetown or Creighton make the big dance they get equally as embarrassed. These other programs are absolute jokes.

I would like to know what the Big East NCAA tournament record is if you took Xavier and Nova out of the equation since realignment. My guess is the record is embarrassing.


I pretty much agree with everything that has been said here, BUT XU was a #1 seed last year and lost in the second round! Whats worse what XU did last year OR what Marquette did this year? I'd say it a toss up! So before you say that WE XU can walk on water lets tread lightly!

[vee4xu]

So, I wonder how the SEC does outside of Kentucky and at one point Florida? Or, the ACC outside of Duke and UNC. If I recall correctly, Virginia became the first #1 seed to lose last year when they lost to UMBC. What can be said for the current state of the PAC 12? If not for AZ, who is worth anything there? In a bubble, it looks like the BE is not good beyond one, or two teams, but I would suggest that's true of all conferences.

[X-band '01]

Agreed with the thoughts on x. I dont think x has contributed their share in the tourney either. A 1 and a 2 seed not getting out of the first weekend is not great.

Xavier has reached the second weekend twice in the Big East - they just happened to be when they were a #6 and #11 seed, strangely enough.

[D-West & PO-Z]

This thread seems misplaced in a year where X is sitting home watching the tournament?


And one year after Xavier lost in the second round as a #1 seed.

I mean the timing fo X fans to complain isnt the greatest since they didnt make it but I think the point is very valid.

The losing as a #1 and #2 seed stings but is more acceptable when X has proved they can make runs as a higher seed like the 11 seed run to the Elite 8. And a sweet 16 run as a 6 seed.

The other BE teams besides Nova, X, and Butler havent made it pas round 1 yet. It is bad. Think about some of the talent teams like Seton Hall, Providence, Creighton, and Marquette have had over the years, especially Providence and Seton Hall imo. To not have more than 1 win is really bad.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You cant put Xavier in the same sentence with Nova. Yeah, we have been better than most BE programs......but come on.

Not typically but when comparing BE success in the tourney to the teams who crap the bed every year sure you can. Butler, X, and Nova are above the rest of the conference in tourney success.

Sure it is:

Nova









X




Butler

but then it is





























rest of BE.

[paulxu]

I'm taking a lot of hope from how the team came together at the end of the year.
We split with Nova, and but for the dumb charging call on Naji would have had them 2 outta 3.
We did it after losing a lot of firepower, while they kept a great deal of theirs.
We did it with a new head coach, while Jay has obviously built a system and had players in it for a while.

So, not as bad as you all are making it out to be.

[scoscox]

Creighton got screwed by that mo watson injury. i think next year they'll be very good. kind of an unpopular opinion, but mcdermott did a pretty good job with creighton this year while losing foster, thomas, and epperson to injury

[D-West & PO-Z]

Creighton got screwed by that mo watson injury. i think next year they'll be very good. kind of an unpopular opinion, but mcdermott did a pretty good job with creighton this year while losing foster, thomas, and epperson to injury

I am higher on McDermott than most.

I think he is a lot better than Cooley.

[X-band '01]

Greg McDermott's teams usually tend to fade late in the year, but this year has actually been an exception.

It would be great if X and Creighton meet a 4th time in the NIT semis this year.

[scoscox]

I am higher on McDermott than most.

I think he is a lot better than Cooley.

Same. He hasn't broken through in march, but he's had a player of the year, multiple lottery picks, a top ten team before the injury, and pretty much at the top of the league every year. he's done a very good job there.

[stammina0721]

Same. He hasn't broken through in march, but he's had a player of the year, multiple lottery picks, a top ten team before the injury, and pretty much at the top of the league every year. he's done a very good job there.

But at some point you must matter in March. It has to happen for him next year with the team he has returning otherwise he goes into the book as another wanna be