The Butler Way

[xudash]

Jorgensen acting like a jerk in our game at Hinkle.

McDermott hooking a few minutes ago in MSG.

I honestly believed that Butler was at some risk when they accepted their BE invitation. Companies sometime grow too fast. Basketball programs can maybe do that, too. The Little Engine That Could rode Stevens to 2 NC games, but that was, shall we call it fortunate.

The Horizon to the A10 (only 1 year at that) to the BE is a serious climb.

Butler had to upgrade Hinkle, as it was falling apart. They continue to carry men's football. I don't think they have enough financial backing to improve upon their player facilities, etc., other than what they have done to this point, which does not compare to other teams in the conference.

A post from one of their fans:

I was SO AFRAID this would happen when Butler joined the Big East. We can't get top Indiana talent. We bring in guys who are projects, who have serious deficiencies in their games. If we recruit the east coast, can't see getting a kid that is a target of 'Nova, St. John's or Providence. I don't know the answer. How DOES Butler catch up?

--------

They got their asses kicked tonight and I found that to be rather enjoyable. Now the Buthead fans are behaving rather poorly. Given their stupid drivel about Xavier's program, may the Butler program be looking up to DePaul very soon.

[vee4xu]

Butler's overmatched in the BE. I knew from the day they were chosen that would be the case. Stevens and Holtmann both had success there with decent talent in a lousy conference. Going to the F4 was a mirage, (hell George Mason made it to the F4 once). But the timing was perfect and this illusion created a curiosity that led to them being invited to the new BE and it also created an inroad for the BE to tap the Indy market. Well, they and DePaul can fight it out for the BE basement in perpetuity.

[GoMuskies]

Looks to me like they've been in the NCAA Tournament five of the last six years. Seems to me they're doing just fine in the Big East. I suspect they'll continue at a relatively similar clip.

[Snipe]

Make them convert to Catholicism of kick them out

[Juice]

Looks to me like they've been in the NCAA Tournament five of the last six years. Seems to me they're doing just fine in the Big East. I suspect they'll continue at a relatively similar clip.

With 1 sweet sixteen and no first round exits.

[xudash]

With 1 sweet sixteen and no first round exits.

Was LaVall responsible for those results?

I mean, the Butler faithful are mostly going nuts about the issues with their current coaching staff. The view is forward looking, not backward looking at past results under different circumstances.

[Juice]

Was LaVall responsible for those results?

I mean, the Butler faithful are mostly going nuts about the issues with their current coaching staff. The view is forward looking, not backward looking at past results under different circumstances.

Ok he went to the NCAA tournament in his first year and made it to the 2nd round. They beat Arkansas (as a 10 seed over a 7) and lost in the next round to 2 seed Purdue.

I hate Butler as much as I hate UC. And I'm sure this season is disappointing to their fans but I don't get the huge freak out about them right now.

I guess I would freak out about their poor performance in the Big East tournament since they joined.

[JTG]

Ok he went to the NCAA tournament in his first year and made it to the 2nd round. They beat Arkansas (as a 10 seed over a 7) and lost in the next round to 2 seed Purdue.

I hate Butler as much as I hate UC. And I'm sure this season is disappointing to their fans but I don't get the huge freak out about them right now.

I guess I would freak out about their poor performance in the Big East tournament since they joined.
Stevens was a coaching savant. Holtmann did well but is having a tough time now at OSU. Jordan was a bargain pick. While the rest of the Big East shops at Macys, Butler shops at Walmart. I think it irks the rest of the league that they do everything on the cheap. It is starting to catch up with them. Now that Miller is at IU, Butler is stuck with leftovers. You seldom hear about any recruiting trips. I think they still rent a car, grab a map, and roam around rural Indiana. That's one reason they never have good centers. They do continue to get good press here in Indy, where they are still looked upon as the cute Little Engine that could. But no real threat to IU or Purdue.

[xudash]

Stevens was a coaching savant. Holtmann did well but is having a tough time now at OSU. Jordan was a bargain pick. While the rest of the Big East shops at Macys, Butler shops at Walmart. I think it irks the rest of the league that they do everything on the cheap. It is starting to catch up with them. Now that Miller is at IU, Butler is stuck with leftovers. You seldom hear about any recruiting trips. I think they still rent a car, grab a map, and roam around rural Indiana. That's one reason they never have good centers. They do continue to get good press here in Indy, where they are still looked upon as the cute Little Engine that could. But no real threat to IU or Purdue.

Exactly. Add to that:

1. Marquette's new NBA digs.

2. Georgetown's new athlete facility.

3. Ditto Providence.

4. Nova's renovated Pavilion and athletic facility.

5. DePaul's new home.

6. Xavier putting $25 more million into the Cintas Center.

Forward looking.

Ewing at Georgetown.

I believe we are going to excel with Travis.

Butler seems like it is still Huckleberry Central, and it may very well dink towards the bottom of the BE.

[KabeX]

Guys this is really simple ... BUCK FUTLER.

That is all.

[bobbiemcgee]

LaVall is a shitty coach and doesn't recruit well. Other than that, I think they were a great addition to the BE but need a coach upgrade.

[Xavier]

Tough to go through that level of a coaching change. I think holtman was one of the better coaches in the BE and don't think this new guy will be great. Still can't believe they will keep us out of an at large bid.

Butler has been pretty solid in the BE though, as others have mentioned- I would be happy if some of the other schools had that level of tournament success.

[xudash]

This thread really isn't about what Butler has done in the Big East up until now. It isn't about whether or not Butler was the right addition or a great addition to the Big East when it reformed. Butler had earned the right to be included in the reformed BE.

Understanding and respecting that the key ingredient to success is a strong coach/coaching staff, it is a fact that a coaching staff still wants to be able to sell a program based on its facilities and amenities and tradition, etc.

We are five years in and some major investments have been made by some of our programs. Butler seems to be constrained when it comes to financial resources for its athletic department. It'll be interesting to see how they move forward from here. Especially given that LaVall seems to be having difficulties and the fans are getting restless over there.

[Caf]

Stevens was a coaching savant. Holtmann did well but is having a tough time now at OSU. Jordan was a bargain pick. While the rest of the Big East shops at Macys, Butler shops at Walmart. I think it irks the rest of the league that they do everything on the cheap. It is starting to catch up with them. Now that Miller is at IU, Butler is stuck with leftovers. You seldom hear about any recruiting trips. I think they still rent a car, grab a map, and roam around rural Indiana. That's one reason they never have good centers. They do continue to get good press here in Indy, where they are still looked upon as the cute Little Engine that could. But no real threat to IU or Purdue.

How dare you talk about Walmart like that.

[bleedXblue]

Butler is not recruiting at a high enough level ....IMHO

Next years class as far as rankings go, is very low again.

They need to figure that one out if they are going to continue to be relevant

[XMuskieFTW]

I fully expect them to occupy the basement of the conference going forward. Lavall can't recruit at this level, they have the worst facilities, and they have the lowest budget in the big east. That's catching up to them quickly. You can survive that with an elite coach, but they no longer have that.

[xudash]

I fully expect them to occupy the basement of the conference going forward. Lavall can't recruit at this level, they have the worst facilities, and they have the lowest budget in the big east. That's catching up to them quickly. You can survive that with an elite coach, but they no longer have that.

You stuck the landing. The point of the thread, other than pointing out that Butler fans are stupid and douchy when it comes to their perceptions of Xavier's program.

[GoMuskies]

Fair enough, but I'm pretty sure people made the same claims 6 years ago, and Butler has done just fine. I suspect they will not be the worst or even the second worst program in the league over the next decade (I don't expect them to be a top half program either).

[vee4xu]

For those who think Butler is just fine, I suggest you consider the investing adage that past results arent necessarily an indication of future performance. Butler has had 2 HC changes and fail to invest in their facilities, all while moving up into greater competition. If we said that about a company that changed CEOs twice in five years and fell behind their competitors after moving into a higher product, we couldn’t sell that stock fast enough. Butler is clearly a sell stock today and nothing in the near or mid term future indicates any reason to think otherwise.

[Juice]

Stevens was a coaching savant. Holtmann did well but is having a tough time now at OSU. Jordan was a bargain pick. While the rest of the Big East shops at Macys, Butler shops at Walmart. I think it irks the rest of the league that they do everything on the cheap. It is starting to catch up with them. Now that Miller is at IU, Butler is stuck with leftovers. You seldom hear about any recruiting trips. I think they still rent a car, grab a map, and roam around rural Indiana. That's one reason they never have good centers. They do continue to get good press here in Indy, where they are still looked upon as the cute Little Engine that could. But no real threat to IU or Purdue.

Xavier wanted Joey Brunk

[bleedXblue]

For those who think Butler is just fine, I suggest you consider the investing adage that past results arent necessarily an indication of future performance. Butler has had 2 HC changes and fail to invest in their facilities, all while moving up into greater competition. If we said that about a company that changed CEOs twice in five years and fell behind their competitors after moving into a higher product, we couldn’t sell that stock fast enough. Butler is clearly a sell stock today and nothing in the near or mid term future indicates any reason to think otherwise.

to be fair, they did upgrade their barn

[vee4xu]

to be fair, they did upgrade their barn

That's true and I considered that. However, it's to old lipstick on a pig situation, so I didn't give them express credit for doing so.