Fire Steele?

[GoMuskies]

Not really, but Jesus, he was on the sideline for that traveshamockery. The 30 point loss at home to LaSuck under Skip is the only one I can remember worse than this one. Brutal.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Please screen save this thread because when Steele leaves for another awesome program we are going to be pissed. The way fans on this site have reacted is typical of white privileg. We are not Duke. Hell UK and UNC have gone through this. VD goes through this every year. Steele is the man and we will make the next leap because of him. Please take off your blue blinders for one year and just eat crow. Let’s talk this time next year. If we arnt better then you’re complaints are right. Sorry im drunk.

[XUGRAD80]

Wow! “White privileg”? First.learn how to spell, there’s an e on the end that is missing. 2nd, don’t post when you’re drunk. 3rd, Wow! Just wow.

I’m not in favor of any firing, but I will say that this is quite possibly the worst Xavier team I’ve seen in 37 years. If not the worst, they are certainly in the running. Terrible shooting. Even worse ball handling. Help defense is non-existent.

Lack of hustle and lack of fight. How in the world do they give up so many offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points? ....and I place that squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff.

There wasn’t one good thing in that whole game that can built upon. How did they let it get this bad?

I’m not pissed because all I’ve invested is my time watching the games. But I’m really disappointed. It’s one thing to lose to better teams. It quite another to lose to lesser teams. Especially when there seems to be a total lack of effort. At least give us effort.

[X-man]

Wow! “White privileg”? First.learn how to spell, there’s an e on the end that is missing. 2nd, don’t post when you’re drunk. 3rd, Wow! Just wow.

I’m not in favor of any firing, but I will say that this is quite possibly the worst Xavier team I’ve seen in 37 years. If not the worst, they are certainly in the running. Terrible shooting. Even worse ball handling. Help defense is non-existent.

Lack of hustle and lack of fight. How in the world do they give up so many offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points? ....and I place that squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff.

There wasn’t one good thing in that whole game that can built upon. How did they let it get this bad?

I’m not pissed because all I’ve invested is my time watching the games. But I’m really disappointed. It’s one thing to lose to better teams. It quite another to lose to lesser teams. Especially when there seems to be a total lack of effort. At least give us effort.

I agree. What is really frustrating about this team is that have not come close to either improving or even playing like a team as this season mercifully comes to a close. "Hero ball", the one-on-one shit that seems to take over this team at crunch time, is absolutely baffling. It inevitably leads to turnovers and forced shots like we saw down the stretch yesterday and in most of our recent games. Why our players don't get it is beyond me. Is it on the coach? Possibly, but I give Steele a pass THIS season because of the hand that Mack dealt him. But coaches gotta coach. So next season, with HIS players and with more depth and talent, Steele needs to deliver and show us that he has the coaching chops to get through to his players. This "groundhog day" season is one that I cannot go through again.

[XUGRAD80]

Haven’t said this in almost my entire adult life, but......I can’t wait until this season is over and we can put it behind us.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

We've had this discussion already (sadly) and it is (or was at that time) the collective wisdom of this board that Steele gets at least three years total. This year is over. One can hope the experience helps Steele and the returning players approach next season differently.

As for Steele, no doubt, the adjustment has been difficult for him. And, the pressure has got to be immense. Many people get promoted into a job before they are ready. It happens in life and perhaps there are posters are on this board who experienced it in their careers. Steele will, I hope, grow into the responsibility. Presently, he seems out of sync. But, there are some jobs that are too tough for on the job training and perhaps head coach in the Big East is one of them. Steele had no previous head coach experience and despite ten years at X in increasingly responsible roles, he may not be head coach material----I hope he works through this but we just have to give hime the time to see.

God, I hope I never see another dumbass reference to "white privilege" on this board, ever, ever again. Can those of us who disagree on matters of basketball at least agree that we will try to say something intelligent?

[paulxu]

Just a little early on the Fire Steele idea. (By maybe 2 years)

Was at a local game, so only saw the last of the second half.
At the 5 minute mark, we were up 4. We only made one more basket at the 36 second mark.
2 TO's, scored tied, Steele calls timeout.
3 more TO's, they lead by 5. Ball game.

That's not bad coaching, that's really, really poor player execution.

Earlier I had watched Wofford. We'd kill for 2 of their players.
One, Fletcher Magee, passed JJ Reddick for #2 all time NCAA history in 3 pointers.
They run constant sets to get 3's, have bought in fully to value of 3 point shooters with 2 effective bigs underneath.
They boatraced Western North Carolina...coached by Skip's son Mark.

Strange night all around. Let's give Steele a chance.

[whopper]

Just a little early on the Fire Steele idea. (By maybe 2 years)

Was at a local game, so only saw the last of the second half.
At the 5 minute mark, we were up 4. We only made one more basket at the 36 second mark.
2 TO's, scored tied, Steele calls timeout.
3 more TO's, they lead by 5. Ball game.

That's not bad coaching, that's really, really poor player execution.

Earlier I had watched Wofford. We'd kill for 2 of their players.
One, Fletcher Magee, passed JJ Reddick for #2 all time NCAA history in 3 pointers.
They run constant sets to get 3's, have bought in fully to value of 3 point shooters with 2 effective bigs underneath.
They boatraced Western North Carolina...coached by Skip's son Mark.

Strange night all around. Let's give Steele a chance.

With Tyrique, Zach and Welage, sad to say there is no way we could do the same (sigh).. It would be nice to see a 3 in rhythm instead of a hot potato bailout pass.

[KFX]

What struck me yesterday was the post game - Steele sounded stunned. He kept repeating himself and spoke in cliches. He is out of ideas and the sooner this season is over the better. It’s troubling that he is telling the team in the TO that they need to box out. I almost felt sorry for him. I know one thing, he needs to find his own path. I’m not sure how he rights the ship here. Would be nice if he had an old hand on the staff - like Gene Keady when he was on Lavin’s staff. Maybe that could/should have been a part of the deal.


I think Xavier’s success in hiring miller and Mack made the Steele hire inevitable. A mix of naïveté and arrogance in that hire if that makes sense. This program is in a hell of a different place than when we hired Miller and Mack into their first HC jobs. And those guys played. That gave them some credibility that perhaps Steele doesn’t have. A hell of a lot of people built this program over the last 35 years. It was at its absolute apex last year with a one seed. Then we gave the keys to a 37 year old with no head coaching experience. We did this no doubt in accordance with Mack’s recommendation - that he basically must make and with his head elsewhere anyway. I’m sure Steele’s work ethic And other attributes made him attractive but nobody knew whether he could coach. That was unknowable. Just a big bet to place on this guy. A bet I would not have made with the program where it was when the decision was made.

Good luck Coach.

[bleedXblue]

What struck me yesterday was the post game - Steele sounded stunned. He kept repeating himself and spoke in cliches. He is out of ideas and the sooner this season is over the better. It’s troubling that he is telling the team in the TO that they need to box out. I almost felt sorry for him. I know one thing, he needs to find his own path. I’m not sure how he rights the ship here. Would be nice if he had an old hand on the staff - like Gene Keady when he was on Lavin’s staff. Maybe that could/should have been a part of the deal.


I think Xavier’s success in hiring miller and Mack made the Steele hire inevitable. A mix of naïveté and arrogance in that hire if that makes sense. This program is in a hell of a different place than when we hired Miller and Mack into their first HC jobs. And those guys played. That gave them some credibility that perhaps Steele doesn’t have. A hell of a lot of people built this program over the last 35 years. It was at its absolute apex last year with a one seed. Then we gave the keys to a 37 year old with no head coaching experience. We did this no doubt in accordance with Mack’s recommendation - that he basically must make and with his head elsewhere anyway. I’m sure Steele’s work ethic And other attributes made him attractive but nobody knew whether he could coach. That was unknowable. Just a big bet to place on this guy. A bet I would not have made with the program where it was when the decision was made.

Good luck Coach.

Yeah he's learning on the job..........and I hope he starts to figure some things out. The coach speak cliche's have to go.......he's starting to sound like a broken record.

[bleedXblue]

oh yeah and we should change the title of this ridiculous thread.......its almost as embarrassing as the play on the court last night

[vee4xu]

I have thought a bit more about this the past couple of weeks. I really blame Mack for all of this. Think about his recruiting classes the past several years. Blueitt was a de-commit and fell into Mack's lap, but otherwise, if it wasn't for Macura panning out so well X should have been screwed sooner. Semaj and Sumner leave early, but frankly I don't know how good they really would have been. Gates was for all intents and purposes a bust. Reynolds was a head case who showed up once in a while. Farr grew into a really good player. And the many transfers we haven't even gotten into. In total, Mack didn't recruit well and as X transitioned from the A-10 to the BE the misses really began to show up due to the higher level of BE talent. Mack knew what was coming and bailed leaving Steele with a flaming bag a crap on the front porch. Early on I wanted to blame Steele, but after further consideration, I say that the deconstruction was all Mack and the job of rebuilding is now up to Steele. Not gonna be easy, but that's what it's gonna take I'm afraid.

[paulxu]

I have thought a bit more about this the past couple of weeks. I really blame Mack for all of this. Think about his recruiting classes the past several years. Blueitt was a de-commit and fell into Mack's lap, but otherwise, if it wasn't for Macura panning out so well X should have been screwed sooner. Semaj and Sumner leave early, but frankly I don't know how good they really would have been. Gates was for all intents and purposes a bust. Reynolds was a head case who showed up once in a while. Farr grew into a really good player. And the many transfers we haven't even gotten into. In total, Mack didn't recruit well and as X transitioned from the A-10 to the BE the misses really began to show up due to the higher level of BE talent. Mack knew what was coming and bailed leaving Steele with a flaming bag a crap on the front porch. Early on I wanted to blame Steele, but after further consideration, I say that the deconstruction was all Mack and the job of rebuilding is now up to Steele. Not gonna be easy, but that's what it's gonna take I'm afraid.

Maybe his last class was a bust. But how can you say he wasn't successful with his recruits based on the BE transition and play.
All 5 years in the BE we went to the tournament and got a S16 and an E8.
Sumner a bust? He's now on the Pacers' roster.
If Macura "pans out", isn't that a case of a coach recognizing and utilizing talent?

Guess I just don't get the hate for Xavier's all time winning-est coach.

[bleedXblue]

Maybe his last class was a bust. But how can you say he wasn't successful with his recruits based on the BE transition and play.
All 5 years in the BE we went to the tournament and got a S16 and an E8.
Sumner a bust? He's now on the Pacers' roster.
If Macura "pans out", isn't that a case of a coach recognizing and utilizing talent?

Guess I just don't get the hate for Xavier's all time winning-est coach.

He definitely recruited some very good players no doubt, but he did not consistently turn out the kind of classes that are needed to compete and excel at the highest level. Maybe that just isn't doable at X? Maybe......

He was at the end of his tenure here depending heavily on 5th year guys and missed on a couple of classes pretty badly. Sumner leaving early for sure hurt us. Gates leaving early cost us a shooter we desperately needed this year.

Mack did nothing "wrong" in my eyes.......and its easy to point the finger is his direction after the fact. I do think he knew the challenge ahead of him at X and bolted like the previous 6 coaches have done.

[vee4xu]

He definitely recruited some very good players no doubt, but he did not consistently turn out the kind of classes that are needed to compete and excel at the highest level. Maybe that just isn't doable at X? Maybe......

He was at the end of his tenure here depending heavily on 5th year guys and missed on a couple of classes pretty badly. Sumner leaving early for sure hurt us. Gates leaving early cost us a shooter we desperately needed this year.

Mack did nothing "wrong" in my eyes.......and its easy to point the finger is his direction after the fact. I do think he knew the challenge ahead of him at X and bolted like the previous 6 coaches have done.

I don't disagree with any of this. Maybe X has reached a ceiling both in terms of players willing to come here and ability to compete in the conference. As for going deep into the NCAA tournament, that's true but in college basketball teams can go far with just one or two good players. But, they cannot go to the Final 4 or win it without an exceptional team and to my thinking, Coach Mack never had an exceptional team. Exceptional players yes, exceptional team, sorry, but no. And when you look at Villanova, the bell cow and the BE, they always, always have an exceptional team.

[GoMuskies]

oh yeah and we should change the title of this ridiculous thread

No, it's time for this thread with a question mark. The answer is no, of course, but this is very, very bad stuff.

[vee4xu]

No, it's time for this thread with a question mark. The answer is no, of course, but this is very, very bad stuff.

I have to agree with this. After such a bad season, especially the conference season, all options need to be on the white board. Now, you place percentages next to each option and firing the coach, at the moment, should be a very low percentage, but it cannot be ignored.

[bleedXblue]

Firing the coach right now isn't even in the conversation or being considered by ANYONE. Its foolish at best and I could be even harsher in my criticism but will keep it above board. Pretty disappointing for some veteran posters to go there right now.........

We have a good class coming in next year. Go ahead and fire the coach. That would set you back another 2-3 years. Add to that the Odom commit would be gone for 2020 and so would Zach Harvey.

I'm as frustrated right now as everyone else. Sure there are question marks with Steele. He's a first year head coach taking his lumps. This program has a chance to get back on track if Naji and Scruggs stick around for their Senior year. Next year is a rebuild year where we should be able to scratch out 18-20 wins. 2020 is when we could be GOOD again.

[GoMuskies]

Harsh away. I can handle it. I'm not in favor of firing even if we lose out (which I suspect we will), but also think this season has been bad enough that year #3 should be in question if year #2 is similar.

[Xer4ever]

Interesting post. I guess “coaching chops” could mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you?

[GoMuskies]

On the plus side, I do think the team has continued to play hard/is still emotionally invested. Maybe this loss kills that, but for now I don’t think he’s lost the team. That’s a real accomplishment given the way the season has gone. And the announcers pointed out how Steele was drawing up points out of timeouts. Another positive sign.

[bjf123]

Harsh away. I can handle it. I'm not in favor of firing even if we lose out (which I suspect we will), but also think this season has been bad enough that year #3 should be in question if year #2 is similar.

What he said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vee4xu]

X has been blowing leads of all sorts the first most notable going back to the San Diego State game during the early-season tourney when they blew a 19 point lead and lost. There are some other games in the OOC season when X blew leads, but hung on to win. So, blame aside, we can all stipulate that playing with and holding the lead has been an issue for this team all season. That is a fact, notwithstanding whose feet we want to lay the blame for it happening.

[Get Real]

At this point, he is out of his depth.

[stammina0721]

Maybe his last class was a bust. But how can you say he wasn't successful with his recruits based on the BE transition and play.
All 5 years in the BE we went to the tournament and got a S16 and an E8.
Sumner a bust? He's now on the Pacers' roster.
If Macura "pans out", isn't that a case of a coach recognizing and utilizing talent?

Guess I just don't get the hate for Xavier's all time winning-est coach.

Huh? We didn't go to S16 or E8 every year in the BE. We lost in the 2nd round last year and also vs. Wisconsin

[stammina0721]

I have not posted much this year cause there is no reason to repeat the I told you so mantra and have people just get pissed off. However this thread is bad.

No, Steele shouldn't be fired. Anyone who thought this team would compete for any type of bid was delusional. When you need multiple transfers you are not going to do much. Getting that one guy to fill a missing piece is okay but going with multiple transfers is a bad formula. That is not Steele's fault.

As for needing an exceptional team to make a final four, that is dependant on your definition of exceptional. If you mean exceptional talent then that helps but is not really true. If you mean work exceptionally well as a team then yes I agree.

It's just a perfect storm this year. It will get better very soon. Steele will be fine

[paulxu]

Huh? We didn't go to S16 or E8 every year in the BE. We lost in the 2nd round last year and also vs. Wisconsin

No, I said we went to the tournament all 5 years. And got a S16 and an E8.

[Masterofreality]

Not really, but Jesus, he was on the sideline for that traveshamockery. The 30 point loss at home to LaSuck under Skip is the only one I can remember worse than this one. Brutal.

I was there last night and I have a lot of thoughts. I, however, am reserving comment on this until after the Creighton game on Wednesday.
But I have a LOT of notes.

[Masterofreality]

He definitely recruited some very good players no doubt, but he did not consistently turn out the kind of classes that are needed to compete and excel at the highest level. Maybe that just isn't doable at X? Maybe......

Greg Christopher addressed our Lew Hirt Society Convention yesterday.
The chief point he continually made was that there were too many times in past years where the recruiting at Xavier was a "Roller Coaster" (his words). One year up, one year down. Not consistent. He was extremely confident (and of course he made the hire, so you know he would express it) that the current staff would stop the up and down. He cited Steele's work ethic as to that, that he never stops and his 24 hour turnaround trip this past week to see Harvey. Whether or not we get Harvey over Gonzaga, (I have a hard time seeing it when the two programs and coach experience/resume is compared, but whatever) the point is that Steele is non stop in this vein.
Whether or not Steele can effectively manage a roster and manage an individual game is still in question, however.

[Masterofreality]

As for needing an exceptional team to make a final four, that is dependant on your definition of exceptional. If you mean exceptional talent then that helps but is not really true. If you mean work exceptionally well as a team then yes I agree.

Loyola Chicago last year fits this description to a T.

[Muskie]

Fire Steele and hire who?

[Masterofreality]

Interesting post. I guess “coaching chops” could mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you?

-Managing a Roster by designing multiple Offensive and Defensive Systems that put each players talent in the best position possible to succeed- Installed by reps in practice (you get hours of it). This is after after deep off season analysis of each guys strengths & weaknesses. PLUS
-Managing a Game by effective use of the playing time given to each guy (not excessive) & quick decisions to change up one of those multiple systems or guys that you started with based upon what the opponent throws at you. If you fail at either by not being intuitive enough to see, or your staff is ineffective in seeing, or don't have enough multiple systems- "bullets in the gun" so to speak- to adjust with, you will fail.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Unless next year is just as bad of a dumpster fire with no progress being made I just don't see anyway Steele doesnt get 3 years. Firing a coach who could be successful given some reasonable time would be a way bigger mistake in my mind than keeping a coach for 3 years and it not working out.

[CP05XU08CU13]

Fire Steele and hire who?

I do not believe they are going to fire Steele after one year, but I think Steve Alford would be a solid hire. My guess is he will find another job in the next year or two. Might need to look at one of the assistants at a big time program down the road as well. Wojo seems to be working out for Marquette, but they had to rebuild for a couple of years to get where they are today. Steele was the natural choice after Mack left, but ultimately he needs to win games in order to keep his job. I really did not see this big of a drop off after last season. Hopefully, Steele can get it together. As I have said in previous posts, I think it is NCAA tourney or bust for Steele next year. Xavier should never finish last in the Big East, and it appears they will this year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I do not believe they are going to fire Steele after one year, but I think Steve Alford would be a solid hire. My guess is he will find another job in the next year or two. Might need to look at one of the assistants at a big time program down the road as well. Wojo seems to be working out for Marquette, but they had to rebuild for a couple of years to get where they are today. Steele was the natural choice after Mack left, but ultimately he needs to win games in order to keep his job. I really did not see this big of a drop off after last season. Hopefully, Steele can get it together. As I have said in previous posts, I think it is NCAA tourney or bust for Steele next year. Xavier should never finish last in the Big East, and it appears they will this year.

Steve Alford? No thank you....

[Masterofreality]

Steve Alford? No thank you....

Cosign.

[noteggs]

We can be sitting in the same place with any new coach. An experienced HC with mid major success who hasn’t proven to be a top talent recruiter, a former somewhat successful HC with baggage, or Steele (no HC experience and proven to a very good recruiter).

Since this has turned into a total rebuild year, I’ll take my chances with Steele. Hopefully he grows into a good game time HC over the next few years. I couldn’t imagine having Mid Major HC this year and looking at a mediocre 2019 class all for two maybe three wins this year (or even less than what we have). A HC with baggage is a non starter for me.

[JTG]

Alford? NFW. Used car salesman, ala Lavin.

[GoMuskies]

Alford is shitty. If Xavier is looking to hire a coach in the next few years, they need to hire a guy on the way up, not one on the way down.

[Xavier]

I don't disagree with any of this. Maybe X has reached a ceiling both in terms of players willing to come here and ability to compete in the conference. As for going deep into the NCAA tournament, that's true but in college basketball teams can go far with just one or two good players. But, they cannot go to the Final 4 or win it without an exceptional team and to my thinking, Coach Mack never had an exceptional team. Exceptional players yes, exceptional team, sorry, but no. And when you look at Villanova, the bell cow and the BE, they always, always have an exceptional team.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It takes an exceptional team to win the Big East. It takes an exceptional team to get a 1/2 seed, and it takes an exceptional team to get to the elite 8. I was hard on Mack but he has 2 of the top 4 teams in Xavier history, won coach of the year honors and is in the running this year for the same award at Louisville. As many have said over and over this team has been close in a ton of games this year. They really haven’t been blown out much and I think Mack would have this exact team in position to make the tournament, no question.

If Mack had no exceptional teams, his accomplishments are even better. Has Xavier ever had an exceptional team, in your eyes?

[xudash]

I got home in time to catch the second half. If less is more, commentary-wise, then please allow me to focus on one aspect (question) here: is it Steele or is it the play of his players?

Here is what I noticed and I believe it is irrefutable. There were at least two or three occasions when Steele called a timeout at key points in the second half when things got tight, in part to obviously set up an inbounds play. Xavier came out and executed successfully in both instances, including Marshall fading down underneath the defense to be set up with a pass and then dunk. BANG. Xavier retains a thin hold on the lead in both cases (if I recall correctly).

Otherwise, as things became tight towards the end and the game was tied, Gooden blunders his way into two straight turnovers, combining with Paul's two travel calls. The primary focus here is on Gooden. He began what became a meltdown.

Beyond that, towards the end, DePaul came down the court and blew the lead away by making shots. Two of our responses to that involved Jones and Marshall missing from close range.

Bottomline: I sense from reading some of MOR's analysis that Travis must still do better managing his personnel decisions and matching his resources more effectively against what is being thrown at us. BUT, my God, when some of our players melt down on the court and go full stupid, they do so full throttle, and Steele cannot control that. Case in point: Q making a lazy pass that gets picked off by an obviously quick and athletic DePaul player for a touchdown bucket. Is that Steele's fault? If it is, then i have a lot more to learn about this game.

[bleedXblue]

I got home in time to catch the second half. If less is more, commentary-wise, then please allow me to focus on one aspect (question) here: is it Steele or is it the play of his players?

Here is what I noticed and I believe it is irrefutable. There were at least two or three occasions when Steele called a timeout at key points in the second half when things got tight, in part to obviously set up an inbounds play. Xavier came out and executed successfully in both instances, including Marshall fading down underneath the defense to be set up with a pass and then dunk. BANG. Xavier retains a thin hold on the lead in both cases (if I recall correctly).

Otherwise, as things became tight towards the end and the game was tied, Gooden blunders his way into two straight turnovers, combining with Paul's two travel calls. The primary focus here is on Gooden. He began what became a meltdown.

Beyond that, towards the end, DePaul came down the court and blew the lead away by making shots. Two of our responses to that involved Jones and Marshall missing from close range.

Bottomline: I sense from reading some of MOR's analysis that Travis must still do better managing his personnel decisions and matching his resources more effectively against what is being thrown at us. BUT, my God, when some of our players melt down on the court and go full stupid, they do so full throttle, and Steele cannot control that. Case in point: Q making a lazy pass that gets picked off by an obviously quick and athletic DePaul player for a touchdown bucket. Is that Steele's fault? If it is, then i have a lot more to learn about this game.

I give Steele credit for sticking with his guys, but Q is not there right now and we might not see that player again this year. Also, WTF is Castlin playing for? Seriously 20 minutes for basically giving us next to nothing? If Kennedy cant play right now in place of him what the hell is going on?

Right now, I limit Q's minutes as much as I can and get Harden and Kennedy more minutes. See what you have for next year and give them a chance for regular time in the rotation.

[X-Fan]

I haven’t posted much if anything on XH in this cluster of a season. Came on here to see what the feel is.

While it’s perfectly fine to question the coach, firing is completely off the table. I’m frustrated like everybody else. Last night I Tweeted that at this point in the season I have no idea what the identity of a Travis Steele coached team is. I realize that a lot shouldn’t have been expected from the season when you have an inexperienced returning roster and 3 Grad Transfers. However, really good coaches can take the cards dealt to them and maximize their strengths. We all see it, this team is better than their results. That’s why we are concerned.

Now, it goes without saying we aren’t D1 coaches and we aren’t in that locker room. Any observer can see that the players share responsibility for the losses/collapses. Q has either regressed, isn’t doing what the coaches are telling him, or is just a bad fit for this team. Naji has been inconsistent (partly due to health issues) and hasn’t taken the BIG step we were expecting/hoping he would. I have no idea how Welage scored so many points at SJSU. Harden & the Frosh have barely played much less had an impact. That’s a lot of "misses" for a team that needed a lot to go right.

Again, like you guys I’m frustrated and worried. 2 things make me chill on beating Steele up too much: 1. It’s his first season as HC (growing pains happen), 2. He has a FANTASTIC class coming in next year (that might get even better).

Also, I know X has a leader of men in Paul Scruggs who has learned and grown a ton this season. I expect Steele will be able to fix the stuff that contributed to all the late game collapses, maximize whoever returns, and mix in the new guys. If he doesn’t then let’s revidit the subject of this thread.

As always, Go X!!!!

[KFX]

Stop being rational.

[vee4xu]

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It takes an exceptional team to win the Big East. It takes an exceptional team to get a 1/2 seed, and it takes an exceptional team to get to the elite 8. I was hard on Mack but he has 2 of the top 4 teams in Xavier history, won coach of the year honors and is in the running this year for the same award at Louisville. As many have said over and over this team has been close in a ton of games this year. They really haven’t been blown out much and I think Mack would have this exact team in position to make the tournament, no question.

If Mack had no exceptional teams, his accomplishments are even better. Has Xavier ever had an exceptional team, in your eyes?

Youre entitled to your opinion. To answer your question, no. IMO X has had some good teams and some overachievng teams, but never an exceptional team

[XUGRAD80]

X-fan(s)

Is part of the problem that we have overrated the talent on this roster? Are we so disappointed because almost nobody expected this team to struggle like this? Did we not expect this because we went into the season thinking that X had a solid core returning and 3 really good grad transfers coming in? Did we expect to much out of the players?

I have to think that the answer to all of these questions is yes.

But even more distressing to me is that the players seem to be not improving, not even holding their own, but regressing in many ways. In addition, there seems to be a general lack of mental toughness on the part of the players, and there don’t seem to be any leaders among the players.

Lack of talent, lack of mental toughness, and lack of leadership is not a good combination. The first thing can be somewhat overcome if a team has the last two things. But it’s hard for even an abundance of talent to overcome the lack of the latter items.

[Muskie]

X-fan(s)

Is part of the problem that we have overrated the talent on this roster? Are we so disappointed because almost nobody expected this team to struggle like this? Did we not expect this because we went into the season thinking that X had a solid core returning and 3 really good grad transfers coming in? Did we expect to much out of the players?

I have to think that the answer to all of these questions is yes.

But even more distressing to me is that the players seem to be not improving, not even holding their own, but regressing in many ways. In addition, there seems to be a general lack of mental toughness on the part of the players, and there don’t seem to be any leaders among the players.

Lack of talent, lack of mental toughness, and lack of leadership is not a good combination. The first thing can be somewhat overcome if a team has the last two things. But it’s hard for even an abundance of talent to overcome the lack of the latter items.

I think many people discounted the amount of roster turnover and the level of the returning players. None of our players fared well on the pre-season Big East teams (only Naji garnered a mention). The other coaches around the league certainly saw what we now have seen. Any one of or all of the grad transfers were great complimentary additions to this team. However, this team has no consistent scorer, I think Scruggs and Marshall are getting there. To me, the biggest issue is that the program could have framed expectations better for the fanbase.

[paulxu]

BUT, my God, when some of our players melt down on the court and go full stupid, they do so full throttle, and Steele cannot control that. Case in point: Q making a lazy pass that gets picked off by an obviously quick and athletic DePaul player for a touchdown bucket. Is that Steele's fault? If it is, then i have a lot more to learn about this game.

This.

[bleedXblue]

I think many people discounted the amount of roster turnover and the level of the returning players. None of our players fared well on the pre-season Big East teams (only Naji garnered a mention). The other coaches around the league certainly saw what we now have seen. Any one of or all of the grad transfers were great complimentary additions to this team. However, this team has no consistent scorer, I think Scruggs and Marshall are getting there. To me, the biggest issue is that the program could have framed expectations better for the fanbase.

How do you do that? I hear ya, but no program ever says that before the year starts..........we should have known better but had no idea how the grad transfers were going to impact this team. AND, everyone thought Q, Naji and Jones were going to take major steps forward.

[OTRMUSKIE]

If we do fire Steele can we get Archie Miller? He is about to be shown the door soon. Either him or his brother. Both will jobless by next year if things don’t change. If Steele sucks this bad next year with no improvement and the Millers are available X needs to grab one. But Steele will be fine so not to worry.

[Xville]

How do you do that? I hear ya, but no program ever says that before the year starts..........we should have known better but had no idea how the grad transfers were going to impact this team. AND, everyone thought Q, Naji and Jones were going to take major steps forward.

Well, you start by not saying things like " this is going to be one of the best defensive xavier teams ever." There are also ways for coaches to frame expectations to the fanbase without sounding like you dont think the kids are worth a darn.

I think Steele is even surprised just how inept and untalented this team is though, and I quite frankly think hes very ready for this year to be over. I honestly dont think he likes this team very much..he'd obviously never say that, but when they showed him in the huddle last night, it said a lot about what he thinks of this team as a whole.

[X_ATL]

Well, you start by not saying things like " this is going to be one of the best defensive xavier teams ever." There are also ways for coaches to frame expectations to the fanbase without sounding like you dont think the kids are worth a darn.

I think Steele is even surprised just how inept and untalented this team is though, and I quite frankly think hes very ready for this year to be over. I honestly dont think he likes this team very much..he'd obviously never say that, but when they showed him in the huddle last night, it said a lot about what he thinks of this team as a whole.

What happened in the huddle? I was at the game and don't have a great view of the X huddle during timeouts. Thanks.

[Xville]

What happened in the huddle? I was at the game and don't have a great view of the X huddle during timeouts. Thanks.

They did an "inside the huddle" and had Steele micd up for it. He just looked completely exasperated and said " you gotta box out...." maybe I'm reading too much into it but just the way he said it, it was almost as if he really just wanted to say " ya know fuck this, you guys dont follow directions and I'm sick of dealing with this same shit over and over, im out."

[JTG]

Call me Mr Obvious, but it's becoming more and more apparent that Macura and Bluiett masked a lot, and I mean a lot, of serious flaws last year.

[XUGRAD80]

Call me Mr Obvious, but it's becoming more and more apparent that Macura and Bluiett masked a lot, and I mean a lot, of serious flaws last year.

Along with Sean and Kanter

[D-West & PO-Z]

Call me Mr Obvious, but it's becoming more and more apparent that Macura and Bluiett masked a lot, and I mean a lot, of serious flaws last year.

I don't know if masked a lot of flaws is the right wording. I think it is just more obvious than ever how good they were and how much easier it is for the returning players to make an impact when the other team had to focus on stopping those two. It definitely shows none of the returning players were ready to be that focal point. I think some of them could be but we have to have shooters to help space the floor which we just dont have.

[IM4X]

Along with Sean and Kanter

That’s right. The play of those two guys was crucial to the success of the team last year.

[vee4xu]

This.

Steele can’t comtril turnovers, but he can control playing time. If you make mistakes, you get yanked. Shouldn’t matter who you are, at what point of the game, or if you have to put in a walk on. Make a mistake and you’re out. If not, and there’s no consequences, then the mistakes comituue. That’s on the coach, be it Steel or anyone else.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Steele can’t comtril turnovers, but he can control playing time. If you make mistakes, you get yanked. Shouldn’t matter who you are, at what point of the game, or if you have to put in a walk on. Make a mistake and you’re out. If not, and there’s no consequences, then the mistakes comituue. That’s on the coach, be it Steel or anyone else.

I mean I get this in one sense but at the same time he is still trying to win the games. No one we could put it would be any better. Can you imagine what James and Kennedy look like in practice on a daily basis to not be getting any playing time?

You want walk on's in? Seriously?

The one area I guess I could buy is playing Q less and going with the lineups we had to play with when he was out injured. Play Scruggs more at the point.

At the same time I am sure Steele is hoping Q plays himself out of whatever he has going on. While also hoping to get him into next year through this funk and contributing at a high level again.

We have some help coming but like it or not we are going to need Q next year back at a level where he is contributing positively in order to be successful.

[IM4X]

If we do fire Steele can we get Archie Miller? He is about to be shown the door soon. Either him or his brother. Both will jobless by next year if things donÂ’t change. If Steele sucks this bad next year with no improvement and the Millers are available X needs to grab one. But Steele will be fine so not to worry.

Hells to the No!

Shady Sean can keep his lame “Lexus” program. We don’t need him or his sweat at Cintas. And we’re certainly too good a brand now to bring aboard a captain from a sinking ship.

[XUGRAD80]

If I look back on my posts from earlier this year, I was complimenting the team on how hard they played. I felt then, and still feel now, that while they were not as talented as I was expecting, I was Ok with it as long as they played hard. They are no longer playing hard in my eye. So what happened? It could be that they are just tired. Just physically worn out by the length of the season. The constant pounding, and the amount of minutes they have played. But there is another kind of tired too. The mental kind. We here in Cincinnati have seen this happen with others. The reds in recent years. The Bengals for seemingly forever. Losing does it to you I guess. It certainly does seem like team has lost any confidence they might have once had. Can’t imagine that it’s much fun to go to practice or to even play games. Pretty sure the players k ow what is going on. Catching lightning in a bottle and running off a bipunch of wins,making a post season tourney, ending the year on a positive note.....these are all things we would like to see happen. But they aren’t going to happen if the players don’t believe they can happen. Watch the kids in pregame, or in the huddle, in the aft r the game presse. None of these kids look excited to be there. None of them look hopeful. None of them look confident. Even more importantly, non of them look “hungry”. Think back to some of the great players X has had. Most of them were great because they were great competitors. They had the will to win. They had the will to prepare to win. They all played HARD. The leaders demanded that their teammates play hard to. They demanded that they support and push each other too. I’ll bet Mack never had to tell JP to start playing hard. I’ll bet JP and Sean had no problems getting on Naji or Scruggs if they weren’t playing hard. A coach can only do so much. This team has no leaders, and it shows.

[Lloyd Braun]

Eyebrow is raised that’s for sure. There’s enough talent on this team to win more games than we have. Depth is not great but the rotations are questionable at best. Learning curve may be steeper than we thought for Steele but I have confidence he will keep the program going in the right direction.

[XUGRAD80]

Eyebrow is raised that’s for sure. There’s enough talent on this team to win more games than we have. Depth is not great but the rotations are questionable at best. Learning curve may be steeper than we thought for Steele but I have confidence he will keep the program going in the right direction.

“Enough” talent? I’m not so sure about that. However, they have lost some close games that they could have won, if they had played a little smarter down the stretch. Vince Lombardi had a saying, “ fatigue makes cowards of us all “. It’s also true that fatigue often leads to stupid mistakes. Xavier seems to make more than its fair share of stupid mistakes late in games. How much of that is caused by the lack of depth, how much by an absence of talent, how much by bad coaching? Have to believe that it’s a combination of all 3.

[Xville]

“Enough” talent? I’m not so sure about that. However, they have lost some close games that they could have won, if they had played a little smarter down the stretch. Vince Lombardi had a saying, “ fatigue makes cowards of us all “. It’s also true that fatigue often leads to stupid mistakes. Xavier seems to make more than its fair share of stupid mistakes late in games. How much of that is caused by the lack of depth, how much by an absence of talent, how much by bad coaching? Have to believe that it’s a combination of all 3.

I'm not sure if I can buy the fatigue argument. Nova played a 7 man rotation for the most part during both of their championship runs. However, maybe that group was just mentally tougher, and more talented so depth was not as much of a concern. I just believe that outside of paul and naji. The talent isnt there and paul and naji are still trying to figure out end of game situational basketball at this level. Although, they did know how to do it against gtown and butler when q wssnt playing.

Anyways I think overall talent combined with a coach still trying to figure it out is what has led to this season. That and I think the misuse of welage is horrible coaching.

[Muskie]

If I look back on my posts from earlier this year, I was complimenting the team on how hard they played. I felt then, and still feel now, that while they were not as talented as I was expecting, I was Ok with it as long as they played hard. They are no longer playing hard in my eye. So what happened? It could be that they are just tired. Just physically worn out by the length of the season. The constant pounding, and the amount of minutes they have played. But there is another kind of tired too. The mental kind. We here in Cincinnati have seen this happen with others. The reds in recent years. The Bengals for seemingly forever. Losing does it to you I guess. It certainly does seem like team has lost any confidence they might have once had. Can’t imagine that it’s much fun to go to practice or to even play games. Pretty sure the players k ow what is going on. Catching lightning in a bottle and running off a bipunch of wins,making a post season tourney, ending the year on a positive note.....these are all things we would like to see happen. But they aren’t going to happen if the players don’t believe they can happen. Watch the kids in pregame, or in the huddle, in the aft r the game presse. None of these kids look excited to be there. None of them look hopeful. None of them look confident. Even more importantly, non of them look “hungry”. Think back to some of the great players X has had. Most of them were great because they were great competitors. They had the will to win. They had the will to prepare to win. They all played HARD. The leaders demanded that their teammates play hard to. They demanded that they support and push each other too. I’ll bet Mack never had to tell JP to start playing hard. I’ll bet JP and Sean had no problems getting on Naji or Scruggs if they weren’t playing hard. A coach can only do so much. This team has no leaders, and it shows.

I didn't see the warmups but I had a few people tell me the team looked really good in warmups before Depaul. Maybe people see what they want to see? I do think this season has been mentally taxing. I know that the players read the message boards and social media, and the fan complaints have been rampant this season.

[bleedXblue]

When has a team ever looked "bad" in warm ups? This is funny. They are shooting layups and uncontested shots? Come on now.

I don't buy the fatigue issue at all. I just think this team lacks leadership and mental toughness. Very few guys WANT the ball. Its why we piss down our leg in almost every close game. The opposition tightens up their defense and we don't execute well.

[Muskie]

When has a team ever looked "bad" in warm ups? This is funny. They are shooting layups and uncontested shots? Come on now.

I don't buy the fatigue issue at all. I just think this team lacks leadership and mental toughness. Very few guys WANT the ball. Its why we piss down our leg in almost every close game. The opposition tightens up their defense and we don't execute well.

I meant interested and tuned into the game. Wasn't specifically talking abou thow many shots they hit.

[Lloyd Braun]

It’s easy to say the talent isn’t there when they’re playing like crap and getting beat at home to DePaul.... but this team has enough talent to compete and they aren’t. Paul, Naji, Q, Tyrique all are talented... that’s a good core to compete and that is why many of us had optimism for that at the onset of the season. Outside of Paul, they have not competed or improved their games. They actually look worse in some instances. I do think Q has a lagging injury, maybe same for Naji but that is not a good excuse for the mental mistakes which are abound. That falls on coaching...

[D-West & PO-Z]

It’s easy to say the talent isn’t there when they’re playing like crap and getting beat at home to DePaul.... but this team has enough talent to compete and they aren’t. Paul, Naji, Q, Tyrique all are talented... that’s a good core to compete and that is why many of us had optimism for that at the onset of the season. Outside of Paul, they have not competed or improved their games. They actually look worse in some instances. I do think Q has a lagging injury, maybe same for Naji but that is not a good excuse for the mental mistakes which are abound. That falls on coaching...

The problem is after those 4 guys the talent drop off is huge. Maybe not so much for hankins but the rest of the guys for sure. Especially in the backcourt. And our severe lack of shooters is a big lack of talent and makes it easy for defenses to take away the things our talented players do best.

Q looks worse and probably is but it might be just as much that he has zero shooters around him and the D packs it in and he cant get anywhere he wants to.

Lets hope we never get in a position again where we have no shooters on the team.

Are any of the recruits good shooters? I dont follow recruiting that closely?

If not a grad transfer proven shooter is a must for next year.

[Lloyd Braun]

They don’t have a lot of great shooters but the scheme is poor right now. They run a couple good sets but lack playmaking guards who actaully pass the ball. Welage should be getting more than 2 shots a game. Q should not be jacking up 3s. They are not held accountable for this and I think that is something that will hopefully change in future years.

[bleedXblue]

The problem is after those 4 guys the talent drop off is huge. Maybe not so much for hankins but the rest of the guys for sure. Especially in the backcourt. And our severe lack of shooters is a big lack of talent and makes it easy for defenses to take away the things our talented players do best.

Q looks worse and probably is but it might be just as much that he has zero shooters around him and the D packs it in and he cant get anywhere he wants to.

Lets hope we never get in a position again where we have no shooters on the team.

Are any of the recruits good shooters? I dont follow recruiting that closely?

If not a grad transfer proven shooter is a must for next year.

Tandy and Bishop can both shoot.........Freemantle, Ramsey and Miles are classic bigs from what I can tell.

I think if we can lock up Beverly or Harvey for 2019 we are in really good shape.

If Harvey elects for 2020....then yes we would for sure be looking for a grad transfer shooter

[Sonoran Desert Muskie]

Cosign.

Having watched Alford coach for 10+ years out here in the west, hell no. He’s absolutely terrible. And arrogant to boot.

[bleedXblue]

Having watched Alford coach for 10+ years out here in the west, hell no. He’s absolutely terrible. And arrogant to boot.

Amazing people just go for a name...........

I would however take Sean Miller back in a heartbeat.....all baggage included if he signed a long term deal with a HUGE buyout option

[XU 87]

Having watched Alford coach for 10+ years out here in the west, hell no. He’s absolutely terrible. And arrogant to boot.

I think Alford does fine at lesser programs (SW Missouri and New Mexico). He struggles at the larger places (UCLA and Iowa). When I heard that he expressed interest in the XU job last year my thought was, "No thanks."

I also thought the same thing about Miller- he has too much baggage right now.

And I see another Arizona hoops coach is in trouble.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/ua/2019/02/06/arizona-wildcats-basketball-firing-assistant-coach-mark-phelps/2798016002/

Similar to Book, I guess Miller had no idea what this was guy was doing.

[hydmuskie]

Can't fire Steele right now.... couple of reasons

1) Every Coach has earned the right to compete with his recruits... so he gets a minimum of 3 years - maybe 4.
2) My biggest issue has been the turnovers. Last 6 games (7, 18, 10, 14, 19, 16) - 14 a game.
3) My second biggest issue has been 3 pt. shooting - across the board abysmal. Annually we tend to hover about 36%. This year we are shooting about 32%.

Hypothetically, if we addressed items 2 & 3 simultaneously, we are probably sitting at 15 wins right now. For me - these things are 30% coaching and 70% execution/talent. If you can shoot better, you are probably not having as many TOs. If you don't have to drive into the paint to score, there are fewer hands slapping away balls and less physical defense.

On his Xs and Os..
- Hard to judge his defensive game plan when there are 14 TOs a game. It is very hard to come back and set up your defense when you are turning the ball over and the other team is running on you.
- His offensive sets have been no worse than Mack - we just don't have the shooters to stretch the floor and that makes it hard for our bigs to operate.

My expectations for next year is that we win 9 games in conf, 2 wins in the BET (I expect the freshmen will need the full season to gel) and are a bubble team. Year after we are solidly a tournament team.

On the recruiting front I am much happier with Steele than Mack. I think we will get consistently higher recruits and the classes will be more consistent.

Finally - this is the BEast - it's not supposed to be easy. Other than us, Creighton and DePaul - everyone else won 9+ OOC games. We are the only ones with a new HC and 3 Grad Transfers... Look at Gtown and SJU's first years with Ewing and Mullins respectively - and we are pretty much in the same boat...

I remind myself to be patient - last year's team probably overachieved, and this year's is underachieving - it all averages out in the end.

[xudash]

Can't fire Steele right now.... couple of reasons

1) Every Coach has earned the right to compete with his recruits... so he gets a minimum of 3 years - maybe 4.
2) My biggest issue has been the turnovers. Last 6 games (7, 18, 10, 14, 19, 16) - 14 a game.
3) My second biggest issue has been 3 pt. shooting - across the board abysmal. Annually we tend to hover about 36%. This year we are shooting about 32%.

Hypothetically, if we addressed items 2 & 3 simultaneously, we are probably sitting at 15 wins right now. For me - these things are 30% coaching and 70% execution/talent. If you can shoot better, you are probably not having as many TOs. If you don't have to drive into the paint to score, there are fewer hands slapping away balls and less physical defense.

On his Xs and Os..
- Hard to judge his defensive game plan when there are 14 TOs a game. It is very hard to come back and set up your defense when you are turning the ball over and the other team is running on you.
- His offensive sets have been no worse than Mack - we just don't have the shooters to stretch the floor and that makes it hard for our bigs to operate.

My expectations for next year is that we win 9 games in conf, 2 wins in the BET (I expect the freshmen will need the full season to gel) and are a bubble team. Year after we are solidly a tournament team.

On the recruiting front I am much happier with Steele than Mack. I think we will get consistently higher recruits and the classes will be more consistent.

Finally - this is the BEast - it's not supposed to be easy. Other than us, Creighton and DePaul - everyone else won 9+ OOC games. We are the only ones with a new HC and 3 Grad Transfers... Look at Gtown and SJU's first years with Ewing and Mullins respectively - and we are pretty much in the same boat...

I remind myself to be patient - last year's team probably overachieved, and this year's is underachieving - it all averages out in the end.

I agree with all this.

In particular, let's consider a hypothetical question: assuming Steele ran better sets on offense and defense and his personnel choices were "better", how much better do you believe our record would be?

Where I am going with this is the oft repeated focus on this board about the fact that we have no truly effective, go-to shooters. So, we run a great set, get the ball to a Welage, and he shoots, well, he shoots like he has been shooting, which is to say that he isn't shooting like he apparently did at SJSU.

One more key fact to offer: after some time has passed and Steele brings in top-shelf talent and he starts winning with them in a big way, we'll look back at this year and immediately savor the reboot.

[Masterofreality]

I think Alford does fine at lesser programs (SW Missouri and New Mexico). He struggles at the larger places (UCLA and Iowa). When I heard that he expressed interest in the XU job last year my thought was, "No thanks."

I also thought the same thing about Miller- he has too much baggage right now.

And I see another Arizona hoops coach is in trouble.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/ua/2019/02/06/arizona-wildcats-basketball-firing-assistant-coach-mark-phelps/2798016002/

Similar to Book, I guess Miller had no idea what this was guy was doing.

Looks an awful like Phelps is a sacrificial lamb to divert attention away from Miller. There's a lot of flotsam & jetsam floating around the desert raccoon. Can't believe he's gonna survive this mess. Would I support Steele hiring him as an assistant? Uh, probably. Yeah.

[Masterofreality]

Tandy and Bishop can both shoot.........Freemantle, Ramsey and Miles are classic bigs from what I can tell.

I think if we can lock up Beverly or Harvey for 2019 we are in really good shape.

If Harvey elects for 2020....then yes we would for sure be looking for a grad transfer shooter

Greg Christopher on Saturday left the door wiiiiiiiide open for a 7+ man class. Not all freshmen, but, yeah. 7.

[GetUp5]

I know we're not terribly serious about the idea of firing Steele, but that really would be the worst move ever.

We'd lose the entire recruiting class and be this bad for another 2-3 seasons at least.

Always have to give the new coach 3-4 years, especially when they sign a Top 20 class nationally.

[Masterofreality]

Steele can’t comtril turnovers, but he can control playing time. If you make mistakes, you get yanked. Shouldn’t matter who you are, at what point of the game, or if you have to put in a walk on. Make a mistake and you’re out. If not, and there’s no consequences, then the mistakes comituue. That’s on the coach, be it Steel or anyone else.

I saw that exact thing happen in Loyola's game with Valpo yesterday. 2nd half start and Kaifes made two bad turnovers in a row. Immediate yank and some "aggressive counseling" on the sideline from Moser. Loyola was down about 6 points at that point but came back to win.
It has to happen sometime, but Steele hasn't done that much, if at all, this year.

[XU22]

Steele will get 3-4 years. Likely 4. Christopher will give him some time.

He has recruited very well so far. Tandy is extremely under rated and will star at X. Beverly, Harvey top targets left on the board for 2019.

I would not be surprised to see a transfer or 2 after the season.

2020 will be a big class as well. Let Steele get his guys in and we will see what he can really do.

Don't put this years team on just Steele, when this time of the year 2020-2021 rolls around then the judgements can come.

[hydmuskie]

I saw that exact thing happen in Loyola's game with Valpo yesterday. 2nd half start and Kaifes made two bad turnovers in a row. Immediate yank and some "aggressive counseling" on the sideline from Moser. Loyola was down about 6 points at that point but came back to win.
It has to happen sometime, but Steele hasn't done that much, if at all, this year.

Problem is that the guys Steele would've yanked in the DePaul game would be Naji (5 TOs) and Scruggs (6 TOs). They had 11 TOs (team total of 16) between them but also 35 of the 63 points... its Sophie's choice at this point.

[XU 87]

I would not be surprised to see a transfer or 2 after the season.



I will be surprised if we don't see a minimum of two transfers.

[Masterofreality]

I know we're not terribly serious about the idea of firing Steele, but that really would be the worst move ever.

We'd lose the entire recruiting class and be this bad for another 2-3 seasons at least.

Always have to give the new coach 3-4 years, especially when they sign a Top 20 class nationally.

Thing is, Xavier is not under any financial pressure to do anything here and now.
-This season is basically sold out with a probable plus 100% capacity result. Whether there are empty seats cause people don't show is irrelevant because the seats are sold.
-Xavier is paying Steele more than $1million less than Mack was making- and $2million less than Mack was offered to stay, which more than makes up for a zero Xavier NCAA share this year.
-Folks aren't gonna bail next year from their season seats just because of a bad year, and people will be excited about the recruiting class. Plus Xavier people are much more loyal to the school than your typical state school fan.

Now, if next year is a disaster with little hope shown, the heat's gonna be turned up to HOT, and year 3 will be where the rubber meets the road. That's when the dollars will start to get dicey. If this trash continues for 3 years, look the hell out. Could be buyout city rumblings cause then the brand is getting severely damaged.
Steele is definitely here 2 more years at minimum no matter what.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I am 100% convinced that Go got a little frisky and made this thread solely to see if it would get over/under 100 responses.

You are getting close, Go. This response doesn’t count...

[GoMuskies]

I am 100% convinced that Go got a little frisky and made this thread solely to see if it would get over/under 100 responses.

You are getting close, Go. This response doesn’t count...

I mean, we had Fire Miller and Fire Mack threads without the question mark. We can't have that, on one hand, and have Steele on the sideline for a home loss to fucking DePaul to make us 11-13, on the other hand, without him getting a thread of his own.

[Get Real]

And Marshall might be at the top of that list

[Title]

Amazing people just go for a name...........

I would however take Sean Miller back in a heartbeat.....all baggage included if he signed a long term deal with a HUGE buyout option


Yeah because off the court issues are exactly what the Big East wants. Miller can't win without reaching deep into the knucklehead pile for recruits. It's just not worth the optics with Xavier in a solid financial position to hire a quality coach.

[SemajParlor]

My vote is to keep the guy who's first recruiting class is top 20 in the country.

[bleedXblue]

Yeah because off the court issues are exactly what the Big East wants.

The BE could give two shits about any of that. They want $$$ for the league and Sean would surely excel in this league IMHO.

Meanwhile WTF is going on with Louisville and the box of money promised/offered to Brian Bowen?

[Xville]

The BE could give two shits about any of that. They want $$$ for the league and Sean would surely excel in this league IMHO.

Meanwhile WTF is going on with Louisville and the box of money promised/offered to Brian Bowen?

Nothing this year. They will get a postseason ban next year but in the end, not much.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I mean, we had Fire Miller and Fire Mack threads without the question mark. We can't have that, on one hand, and have Steele on the sideline for a home loss to fucking DePaul to make us 11-13, on the other hand, without him getting a thread of his own.

Ha. Fair enough....good to know your motives were to mock past threads. Because you are way to smart to think this was a legitimate question.

[Title]

The BE could give two shits about any of that.

Sorry but you are flat-out wrong.

[bleedXblue]

Sorry but you are flat-out wrong.

Please provide some proof of your claim? As long as Miller isn't banned or not able to coach per the NCAA there ain't a damn thing the BE could do. Schools have to do whats in their best interest.......

Moving on as he isn't coming here anyway...........

[Title]

Please provide some proof of your claim? As long as Miller isn't banned or not able to coach per the NCAA there ain't a damn thing the BE could do. Schools have to do whats in their best interest.......

Moving on as he isn't coming here anyway...........

How is bringing back all that off the court nonsense in Xavier's best interest ? Do you like the arrests and jacka-- behavior, is that Xavier basketball in your opinion ?

[XU 87]

Please provide some proof of your claim? As long as Miller isn't banned or not able to coach per the NCAA there ain't a damn thing the BE could do. Schools have to do whats in their best interest.......

Moving on as he isn't coming here anyway...........

I for one didn't think it was in X's best interest to hire a coach whose program is currently under FBI investigation.

[bleedXblue]

How is bringing back all that off the court nonsense in Xavier's best interest ? Do you like the arrests and jacka-- behavior, is that Xavier basketball in your opinion ?

you're not answering the question and claim you made.....are you?

[bleedXblue]

I for one didn't think it was in X's best interest to hire a coach whose program is currently under FBI investigation.

Like I said, it isnt happening anyway......

[Title]

you're not answering the question and claim you made.....are you?

Ummmm...........I never claimed there was anything the Big East could do about the initial hire. So excuse me if I didn't address your straw-man argument.

[XfansinKy]

If Xavier does have to make a change, it should be Pat Kelsey. He is a good coach, and knows how to manage an entire program. He was my #1 no brainier, but I guess Mack's opinion weighed heavy. I'm still supporting Steele for 3 years minimum.

[XU 87]

If Xavier does have to make a change, it should be Pat Kelsey. He is a good coach, and knows how to manage an entire program. He was my #1 no brainier, but I guess Mack's opinion weighed heavy. I'm still supporting Steele for 3 years minimum.

The same Pat Kelsey who quit his job at X without explanation and then resigned from UMass after he accepted the job the day or two before, again without explanation? No thanks.

I will add that Kelsey has been good but not great at Winthrop- going to the NCAA's once in 7 years.

[GoMuskies]

Steve Alford? Pat Kelsey?

Jesus, it makes sense that Christopher just went ahead and promoted Steele from the bench if these were actually his alternatives.

[hydmuskie]

Stealing from the Holy Land site.... what about Matta as a special assistant to help with Xs & Os and Game Planning...

[GoMuskies]

Stealing from the Holy Land site.... what about Matta as a special assistant to help with Xs & Os and Game Planning...

Welcome aboard Coach Thad! Good luck in your future endeavors former Coach Dante.

[XU 87]

Steve Alford? Pat Kelsey?

Jesus, it makes sense that Christopher just went ahead and promoted Steele from the bench if these were actually his alternatives.

There were other and good alternatives (NKU coach, SD State coach etc.). Personally, I thought Steele was the best pick as compared to the others. There wasn't someone else out there that made me think, "This guy is going to be really, really good."

[GoMuskies]

No, I agree these weren't Christopher's only options. Just the options posted here.

I was okay with the Steele hire. Still am. Wasn't particularly excited by it at the time, and I'm still not. But I also could have run with any of Chris Jans (if you can handle his offcourt stuff), Wes Miller or Steve Forbes and felt pretty damned good.

[Final4]

The same Pat Kelsey who quit his job at X without explanation and then resigned from UMass after he accepted the job the day or two before, again without explanation? No thanks.

I will add that Kelsey has been good but not great at Winthrop- going to the NCAA's once in 7 years.

With all due respect you really don't know what you're talking about here. You may want to dig a little deeper into his departures from X and UMass before you throw dirt on the guy.

[Mrs. Garrett]

With all due respect you really don't know what you're talking about here. You may want to dig a little deeper into his departures from X and UMass before you throw dirt on the guy.

Nice to see the Kelsey family alive and well on the message board.

[D-West & PO-Z]

With all due respect you really don't know what you're talking about here. You may want to dig a little deeper into his departures from X and UMass before you throw dirt on the guy.

I heard the rumor that the players at UMass were being paid and expected Kelsey to continue the payments. By who exactly I dont know. And that Kelsey bailed because of that. No idea if that has any truth to it at all but I believe that is what you were referencing.

As for his exit from XU I know publicly he stated it was for personal reasons and he referenced Skip's death and his own health but obviously he returned to coaching pretty quickly after. I have heard various rumors of why he actually left X but none that have actually be substantiated.

[paulxu]

Where I am going with this is the oft repeated focus on this board about the fact that we have no truly effective, go-to shooters. So, we run a great set, get the ball to a Welage, and he shoots, well, he shoots like he has been shooting, which is to say that he isn't shooting like he apparently did at SJSU.

I decided to look into this. I continue to think we don't give him enough minutes/shots. I know this is a tougher league, but why not try to get him more shots. Especially when we go on and on about our lack of 3 pt effectiveness:

His stats through 4 years (to date) on 3 pt shots %: 36.1,36.4, 42.9 and this year 39.3.

So, he's a little better than years 1 & 2, not up to last year.

Still think we should use him more.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

If Xavier does have to make a change, it should be Pat Kelsey.

I'll pass on that one too.

Xavier is a legitimate Top 20 Program top to bottom, let's stop limiting ourselves to those that have played or worked on Victory Parkway. There is a big world out there, let's look around next time.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Nice to see the Kelsey family alive and well on the message board.

100% accurate, great call!

[scoscox]

My favorite candidates were Nate Oates and Wes Miller. I was initially a little subdued about Travis but his recruiting got me excited. I’ve completely reverted to subdued, and worse, at this point

[XfansinKy]

The same Pat Kelsey who quit his job at X without explanation and then resigned from UMass after he accepted the job the day or two before, again without explanation? No thanks.

I will add that Kelsey has been good but not great at Winthrop- going to the NCAA's once in 7 years.

I believe Kelsey thought he was getting a legit shot at the Xavier job, and that's why the indecision. I understand about indecision and I don't care if I get behind, by the way.

[IM4X]

Stealing from the Holy Land site.... what about Matta as a special assistant to help with Xs & Os and Game Planning...

I do like this idea. Pay him one dollar less than Steele to be his top assistant and help produce better results with what he has.

[AviatorX]

I do like this idea. Pay him one dollar less than Steele to be his top assistant and help produce better results with what he has.

I guess it’s settled. Only problem now is why the hell would Matta want do come out of retirement to do that?

[IM4X]

I guess it’s settled. Only problem now is why the hell would Matta want do come out of retirement to do that?

Actually, it could be an ideal situation for Matta and a perfect solution for Xavier.

Matta has been dealing with leg/foot/back issues. He didn’t love having to fly around everyehere to see kids he was recruiting, but he still has passion for the game. Steele and the other assistants have the recruiting bit covered. What they could use is a very talented veteran coach who would help them with some of the problems they are struggling to solve.

Someone might say, “Well, it’s not like Thad can magically make poor shooters shoot a lot better.” Yeah, true, but he will have a better grasp than Steele or any of his other assistants (from his many years in the head chair) of how to get this team to play together smarter. He figure out a way to use a specific player’s greatest abilities to help the team gain an edge. Matta would bring with him ideas that have worked before. Maybe he even helps create better spacing for Scruggs and Welage in the process.

comkng back to Xavier could give Matta a sense of purpose. He’d be using his talents back at a university where he did great things and where fans would really appreciate his effort. It would mean bringing back a guy who knows how to take X to the next level by getting players to play their best while leaving it all on the floor.

[XU 23]

Stealing from the Holy Land site.... what about Matta as a special assistant to help with Xs & Os and Game Planning...

I agree. To add to this, we should bring in Gillen as our third assistant and then make Staak our DBO. And, if Miller gets fired, he can be our trainer.

[Masterofreality]

I believe Kelsey thought he was getting a legit shot at the Xavier job, and that's why the indecision. I understand about indecision and I don't care if I get behind, by the way.

I never knew you were from......Boston??? :laugh:

[Xavier]

My favorite candidates were Nate Oates and Wes Miller. I was initially a little subdued about Travis but his recruiting got me excited. I’ve completely reverted to subdued, and worse, at this point

With Steele and the staff he brought in I was most excited about the recruiting that could take place. A first year head coach can take a little more time with X's and O's- I don't hate the idea of bringing in someone for that. Regardless, I am still excited about the talent this coaching staff can bring in.

[Final4]

I heard the rumor that the players at UMass were being paid and expected Kelsey to continue the payments. By who exactly I dont know. And that Kelsey bailed because of that. No idea if that has any truth to it at all but I believe that is what you were referencing.

As for his exit from XU I know publicly he stated it was for personal reasons and he referenced Skip's death and his own health but obviously he returned to coaching pretty quickly after. I have heard various rumors of why he actually left X but none that have actually be substantiated.

I've always thought it showed a tremendous amount of character for Kelsey to subject himself to the type/amount of ridicule he received in the press as opposed to stating publically what he encountered when he met the players and thus the reason why he backed out of the job.

As far as his departure from X I'll leave that to others. But I believe there are folks on this board that know what happened (and I know for a fact there are guys on MM who know).

[Caf]

As far as his departure from X I'll leave that to others. But I believe there are folks on this board that know what happened (and I know for a fact there are guys on MM who know).

It was only a matter of time before this was brought up.

[markchal]

With Steele and the staff he brought in I was most excited about the recruiting that could take place. A first year head coach can take a little more time with X's and O's- I don't hate the idea of bringing in someone for that. Regardless, I am still excited about the talent this coaching staff can bring in.

I thought Steele was supposed to be a pretty savvy Xs and Os guy under Mack?

[boozehound]

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It takes an exceptional team to win the Big East. It takes an exceptional team to get a 1/2 seed, and it takes an exceptional team to get to the elite 8. I was hard on Mack but he has 2 of the top 4 teams in Xavier history, won coach of the year honors and is in the running this year for the same award at Louisville. As many have said over and over this team has been close in a ton of games this year. They really haven’t been blown out much and I think Mack would have this exact team in position to make the tournament, no question.

If Mack had no exceptional teams, his accomplishments are even better. Has Xavier ever had an exceptional team, in your eyes?

Did you feel like you were watching an exceptional team last year? I never really did. I kept waiting to see it, but it never really happened. We won virtually every close game we played in, but didn't really blow anybody out or look that great at any point. We got stomped 2x by Villanova (our annual tradition) and got a 1 seed only to go 1 and done. I think of last year's team as either (1) very lucky or (2) very good at closing out close games, or maybe a little of both.

[drudy23]

Did you feel like you were watching an exceptional team last year? I never really did. I kept waiting to see it, but it never really happened. We won virtually every close game we played in, but didn't really blow anybody out or look that great at any point. We got stomped 2x by Villanova (our annual tradition) and got a 1 seed only to go 1 and done. I think of last year's team as either (1) very lucky or (2) very good at closing out close games, or maybe a little of both.

Bad take.

[scoscox]

I thought Steele was supposed to be a pretty savvy Xs and Os guy under Mack?

Offensively, he seems to be doing a pretty good job. Having this team 53rd in offensive efficiency with 4 starters that shoot less than 30% from 3 is pretty respectable, but the defense is a trainwreck. 199th in defensive efficiency oy vey.

[scoscox]

Did you feel like you were watching an exceptional team last year? I never really did. I kept waiting to see it, but it never really happened. We won virtually every close game we played in, but didn't really blow anybody out or look that great at any point. We got stomped 2x by Villanova (our annual tradition) and got a 1 seed only to go 1 and done. I think of last year's team as either (1) very lucky or (2) very good at closing out close games, or maybe a little of both.

I don't think they fully realized their potential, but it's a wild take to say that the only 1 seed and Big East champion in school history wasn't an exceptional, team. If that's the standard, we've basically never had an exceptional team.

[bleedXblue]

Did you feel like you were watching an exceptional team last year? I never really did. I kept waiting to see it, but it never really happened. We won virtually every close game we played in, but didn't really blow anybody out or look that great at any point. We got stomped 2x by Villanova (our annual tradition) and got a 1 seed only to go 1 and done. I think of last year's team as either (1) very lucky or (2) very good at closing out close games, or maybe a little of both.

man i wouldnt want to work for you......

[OH.X.MI]

Some of you people are absolute lunatics.

[SemajParlor]

It was only a matter of time before this was brought up.

Bringing up that rumor is Tu soon.

[muskieindent]

Haven’t said this in almost my entire adult life, but......I can’t wait until this season is over and we can put it behind us.

I'm with you barring some dramatic turnaround the next 3 weeks. Just hope we win another game.
As far as Steele I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since the composition of this team is horrible and that's not on him. He hasn't done anything to blow me away though.

[Xville]

Bringing up that rumor is Tu soon.

I see what you did there :)

[BigMoeMusketeer]

That "rumor" about Pat that is being tossed around in this thread is 100% off-base. I'm no fan of the guy, but that ridiculous rumor is insulting to so many people and 100% wrong.

[Caf]

It's worse than the rumor Mack is waiting for the Louisville job.

[GoMuskies]

It's worse than the rumor Mack is waiting for the Louisville job.

Oh, hell no. He would never do that to his alma mater!

[Xville]

That "rumor" about Pat that is being tossed around in this thread is 100% off-base. I'm no fan of the guy, but that ridiculous rumor is insulting to so many people and 100% wrong.

Yeah the "real" reason is so much more believable....that he was worried about his health and retired. Him and Urban.

[Caf]

Oh, hell no. He would never do that to his alma mater!

People forget his wife is from Louisville

[SemajParlor]

People forget his wife is from Louisville

The tell was when their house listed for sale. I heard him say it in a Brooklyn meeting following the St John’s Big East tournament game.

Btw that was my favorite rumor. I just picture Mack in a Brooklyn restaurant, Sorpanos style sit down, under his napkin is an envelope of cash.

[SemajParlor]

Oh crap, this season has been so bad this year we've started the off season threads 3 months early haven't we?

[GoMuskies]

People forget his wife is from Louisville

What?!?!? Next thing you're going to tell me is that bitch went to Dayton.

(Guys, please note this is sarcasm. I'm sure Mrs. Mack is actually a very lovely individual)

[BigMoeMusketeer]

Yeah the "real" reason is so much more believable....that he was worried about his health and retired. Him and Urban.

There is more to it than the health issues, obviously, but the crazy rumor involving Tu (or ANY player) is completely off-base. Again, not to mention, insulting to a ton of people. It simply isn't true.

[SM#24]

Stealing from the Holy Land site.... what about Matta as a special assistant to help with Xs & Os and Game Planning...

Don't think this would ever happen but why not engage him this off season on a consulting basis to review and recommend

[Get Real]

There were other and good alternatives (NKU coach, SD State coach etc.). Personally, I thought Steele was the best pick as compared to the others. There wasn't someone else out there that made me think, "This guy is going to be really, really good."

I told you that there was a reason the Steele never received a VIABLE HC job offer in the last 4 years; and was interviewing for a lot of openings-many of which didn't make it past the initial interview.

[XU 87]

I told you that there was a reason the Steele never received a VIABLE HC job offer in the last 4 years; and was interviewing for a lot of openings-many of which didn't make it past the initial interview.

Not true. He was offered the Middle TN job last year and turned it down with the hopes of getting the XU job.

[Caf]

I told you that there was a reason the Steele never received a VIABLE HC job offer in the last 4 years; and was interviewing for a lot of openings-many of which didn't make it past the initial interview.

Genuine question, was Mack getting HC offers under Miller?

[XU 87]

With all due respect you really don't know what you're talking about here. You may want to dig a little deeper into his departures from X and UMass before you throw dirt on the guy.


Fair enough. Mea Culpa.

[bleedXblue]

I will never understand why people choose to dump on Kelsey. He's an alumnus and by all accounts a good guy.

[XUGRAD80]

I will never understand why people choose to dump on Kelsey. He's an alumnus and by all accounts a good guy.

I’ve never understood why some people seem to think that he walks on water, either. Even if the facts are that he is an alumnus and a good guy, that doesn’t give him any more to offer than what I can offer. I’m an alumnus and most people think I’m a good guy too. That certainly doesn’t qualify me to be a HC at the college level, especially at the high college level. I’m not dumping on him, I just don’t get why some people seem to love him so much and think he will make such a great coach.

[bleedXblue]

I’ve never understood why some people seem to think that he walks on water, either. Even if the facts are that he is an alumnus and a good guy, that doesn’t give him any more to offer than what I can offer. I’m an alumnus and most people think I’m a good guy too. That certainly doesn’t qualify me to be a HC at the college level, especially at the high college level. I’m not dumping on him, I just don’t get why some people seem to love him so much and think he will make such a great coach.

Who thinks he walks on water? Most of what I have read is some people thought he as a good option for the HC job? I think that's totally fair considering he was an assistant at Wake for several years under Skip and associate HC here for 3 years. Add to that he's had a pretty good run at Winthrop for 5 plus years. Pretty strong resume if you ask me.

[GoMuskies]

Pretty strong resume if Illinois State is hiring.

[bleedXblue]

Pretty strong resume if Illinois State is hiring.

Yet we hired a guy who's resume on paper is not as good as Kelsey's?

I still think we made the right choice........

But to say he didn't deserve a look or consideration for the job is BS

[GoMuskies]

I don't think either Steele or Kelsey would get a sniff at any other power conference program. Kelsey hasn't done nearly enough at Winthrop to get a job like Xavier.

[drudy23]

I always though he might have gotten the NKU job if Brannen was selected for XU, but I could see there being mutual interest. That would seem like a great step before something like X.

Cincy always has love for the hometown guy.

[SemajParlor]

Chris Mack just lost a game up 23 with 9 to play.

[Xville]

Chris Mack just lost a game up 23 with 9 to play.

There is a God.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Chris Mack just lost a game up 23 with 9 to play.

Yeah can't say I was too disappointed in that one.

Might be first time I cheered for Duke.

Plus I am just getting practice cheering for Zion, considering he is going to be staring at MSG next year!

[scoscox]

Has a fan bases opinion of a coach ever changed more drastically in such a short period of time as louisville's for chris mack?

[whopper]

Fond memories, but I was hoping to see mack v coach k last year with JP v Allen, our 3 big men (refuse to write "bigs" v Bagley and Carter, Tre v Trent et al) and was annoyed watching hm last night but only saw comeback this morning. Wow

[D-West & PO-Z]

Has a fan bases opinion of a coach ever changed more drastically in such a short period of time as louisville's for chris mack?

Is this in reference to message boards or twitter or what?

[bleedXblue]

Is this in reference to message boards or twitter or what?

all of the above


He team melted down....literally turning it over on multiple straight possessions........It was beautiful

[XUGRAD80]

all of the above


He team melted down....literally turning it over on multiple straight possessions........It was beautiful

Nothing we’ve not seen before....:(

[xubrew]

Nothing we’ve not seen before....:(

We haven't.

I cannot believe this, but according to David Worlock from the NCAA that is the first time in the history of college basketball a team has blown a 23 point lead in the final ten minutes of the game.

That just seems like it cannot be right. I'm not saying it's common, but I almost cannot believe that it has never happened before. I mean...not even ONCE?

https://twitter.com/DavidWorlock/status/1095666176032681986

[Xville]

all of the above


He team melted down....literally turning it over on multiple straight possessions........It was beautiful

Its starting to become a Chris Mack staple and is why I will never trust a Mack coached team to get past the second weekend. He's a choker and his teams reflect that quite often.

I will say he is good at game prep (although against Nova he was a moron), and hes good at time outs. However, his in game coaching leaves a lot to be desired, and he does not make adjustments once his opponent changes their game plan. That Louisville team looked like a scared high school team the last 9 minutes of the game and that is all coaching.

[scoscox]

Is this in reference to message boards or twitter or what?

Twitter. One guy was already putting him above rick pitino

[scoscox]

Its starting to become a Chris Mack staple and is why I will never trust a Mack coached team to get past the second weekend. He's a choker and his teams reflect that quite often.

I will say he is good at game prep (although against Nova he was a moron), and hes good at time outs. However, his in game coaching leaves a lot to be desired, and he does not make adjustments once his opponent changes their game plan. That Louisville team looked like a scared high school team the last 9 minutes of the game and that is all coaching.

I'd be very interested to see chris mack play this year's iteration of nova just to see if he'd still lose by 20+

Nothing epitomized his nova prep more than the game at cintas last year where he admitted he hadn't watched any game tape from our first loss on the pregame show on fs1 and then called their offense simple and basic. i've hardly ever been more dumbfounded by a coach's comments. how you could have that approach to a team that has humiliated you mercilessly 9+ times is beyond me.

[bleedXblue]

I'd be very interested to see chris mack play this year's iteration of nova just to see if he'd still lose by 20+

Nothing epitomized his nova prep more than the game at cintas last year where he admitted he hadn't watched any game tape from our first loss on the pregame show on fs1 and then called their offense simple and basic. i've hardly ever been more dumbfounded by a coach's comments. how you could have that approach to a team that has humiliated you mercilessly 9+ times is beyond me.

b/c he was already checked out and had his mind on the UL job

[paulxu]

You can't be a real "blue blood" program unless your message board contains a "Fire the Coach" thread, especially after a loss or two.

[GoMuskies]

You can't be a real "blue blood" program unless your message board contains a "Fire the Coach" thread, especially after a loss or two.

Or 13 (6 in a row- including a come from ahead loss to DePaul at home)

[XUGRAD80]

We haven't.



Maybe not the 23 point in 10 minutes meltdown......but we have certainly seen some recent Xavier teams blow late game leads with multiple turnovers in a row

[Caf]

On Duke-Louisville and not hating the past - Banners (https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2019/2/13/18223449/on-duke-louisville-and-not-hating-the-past-chris-mack-xavier)

I'm sure most of you have seen this and apologies if it's posted elsewhere here. If you haven't, I come with good news, you can skip church on Sunday. All of your preaching and guidance needs are here for you in one short article!

[GoMuskies]

On Duke-Louisville and not hating the past - Banners (https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2019/2/13/18223449/on-duke-louisville-and-not-hating-the-past-chris-mack-xavier)

Don't read that site. Based on this, missing nothing.

[Xville]

On Duke-Louisville and not hating the past - Banners (https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2019/2/13/18223449/on-duke-louisville-and-not-hating-the-past-chris-mack-xavier)

I'm sure most of you have seen this and apologies if it's posted elsewhere here. If you haven't, I come with good news, you can skip church on Sunday. All of your preaching and guidance needs are here for you in one short article!

Brad D can seriously kiss my ass. Glad he thinks Mack on water and pisses sunshine and rainbows.....for me, he did and is far worse than Matta or Miller. F Mack.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Broering was on Mo egger's show just a little bit ago not understanding any dislike towards Mack. Doesnt think it makes sense everyone was taking so much pleasure in Mack/Louisville's collapse last night.

I was taking great pleasure. I do get that being a fan though causes irrational behavior. But I also don't think its completely irrational to not be cheering for Mack to have great success.

[JTG]

b/c he was already checked out and had his mind on the UL job

This
At that point he didn't give a shit about X. So, I for one, will forever despise that bald headed prick. I wish he would have left in November.

[Xville]

Broering was on Mo egger's show just a little bit ago not understanding any dislike towards Mack. Doesnt think it makes sense everyone was taking so much pleasure in Mack/Louisville's collapse last night.

I was taking great pleasure. I do get that being a fan though causes irrational behavior. But I also don't think its completely irrational to not be cheering for Mack to have great success.

Is he really that stupid? He can kiss my ass as well.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Will never understand why people think that we should thank Mack as he walks out the door and continue to kiss his ass while he leads another program. You’re right, let’s all root him on because, even though his actions say that xavier will never be a good enough job to keep their own alumni, we had some good times and we should wish him well for that. Nah.

[Caf]

I can understand either perception of Mack. Different strokes for different folks. What I don't get is people, especially writers, arguing that fans are wrong to feel someway. You really gotta have a high opinion of yourself, or a low opinion of others, to criticize other people's thoughts on something like this.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

I can understand either perception of Mack. Different strokes for different folks. What I don't get is people, especially writers, arguing that fans are wrong to feel someway. You really gotta have a high opinion of yourself, or a low opinion of others, to criticize other people's thoughts on something like this.

Reps. More so what I was going for, if you want to still like him, sure, that's alright. But don't take this holier than thou approach b/c I want to revel in the guy's failures and you're supposedly above this.

[XfansinKy]

I can understand either perception of Mack. Different strokes for different folks. What I don't get is people, especially writers, arguing that fans are wrong to feel someway. You really gotta have a high opinion of yourself, or a low opinion of others, to criticize other people's thoughts on something like this.

Truth!

[GoMuskies]

Reps. More so what I was going for, if you want to still like him, sure, that's alright. But don't take this holier than thou approach b/c I want to revel in the guy's failures and you're supposedly above this.

Yes, and one has to remember the context as well. Saying you want to "revel in a guy's failures" sounds pretty awful, but we're not talking about real life. The guy's a multi-, multi- millionaire and his family is set up for a couple of generations no matter how badly he screws up. No one is wishing "actual" ill-will on the guy.

[xufan2020]

Why did the thread I started “Quentin Goodin” get locked/closed? Can it be reopened?
Confused as to how that happened

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Yep. Best case scenario, reveling in the guy's failure = Xavier reaching a Final Four with Steele and Mack never having the opportunity to go to one. Along with his team's occasional total collapse on the court against random foe.

[X-band '01]

Why did the thread I started “Quentin Goodin” get locked/closed? Can it be reopened?
Confused as to how that happened

Can't speak for Muskie, but my guess is that it was just getting repetitive and toxic from other posters. There are other threads you can still post about him where it doesn't cross a line between being critical and being personal.

[xufan2020]

Can't speak for Muskie, but my guess is that it was just getting repetitive and toxic from other posters. There are other threads you can still post about him where it doesn't cross a line between being critical and being personal.
Thanks
Just a few more more questions: once it’s locked, can it become unlocked? Also who decides to lock threads?

[mohr5150]

Yes, and one has to remember the context as well. Saying you want to "revel in a guy's failures" sounds pretty awful, but we're not talking about real life. The guy's a multi-, multi- millionaire and his family is set up for a couple of generations no matter how badly he screws up. No one is wishing "actual" ill-will on the guy.

Uuuhhh....

😉

[vee4xu]

Despite being a Cincy native, X player and captain and all time winningest coach, Mack proved to be someone who ascribed no real value to any of that. Which is fine, but I'm not going to canonize him as someone who is to be enshrined in Xavier lore forever. Other coaches who came and went had no previous ties to Xavier. They were never really one of "us", but Mack was one of "us". To me, he lost his standing as one of "us" when he decided to hightail it to Louisville. That's totally his right, but I now place him somewhere between Matta at the worst end of the spectrum and Miller at the worse end of he spectrum. I will never wish him ill, but have no interest in anything he ever does again on, or off the basketball court.

[Muskie]

Why did the thread I started “Quentin Goodin” get locked/closed? Can it be reopened?
Confused as to how that happened

It had reached the logical conclusion when nobody was really on topic anymore.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[paulxu]

It's funny, on his twitter page, one of his 5 "you may also like" feeds...is Xavier Basketball.
Right up there with Louisville basketball, his wife, and Luke Murray.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I don’t wish him or his family any Ill will but I def wish his success from
Here on out nothing but failure. That shouldn’t be hard to do since he sucks. That lost to
duke will be the downfall of this years team. Steele is going to be Xavier’s all time everything.

[kane79]

I like Steele as the Xavier coach but I had one big issue with his game management last night. 1.7 seconds left and they call the jump ball instead of a foul. He's is understandably upset but asking the refs to go to replay when I don't believe they can change that call gave Creighton a time out they didn't have and a chance to draw up a play, which turned out to be a wide open three that would have tied it. ( I won't even start in on how the play seemed to be have 15 tackle half the x team to get some one open since they wouldn't call anything on him all night) They won though and that's what matters and a lesson to be learned from that.

[noteggs]

I like Steele as the Xavier coach but I had one big issue with his game management last night. 1.7 seconds left and they call the jump ball instead of a foul. He's is understandably upset but asking the refs to go to replay when I don't believe they can change that call gave Creighton a time out they didn't have and a chance to draw up a play, which turned out to be a wide open three that would have tied it. ( I won't even start in on how the play seemed to be have 15 tackle half the x team to get some one open since they wouldn't call anything on him all night) They won though and that's what matters and a lesson to be learned from that.

You right they can’t change the call. However, Steele didn’t ask the ref’s because they were actually looking at the clock.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I like Steele as the Xavier coach but I had one big issue with his game management last night. 1.7 seconds left and they call the jump ball instead of a foul. He's is understandably upset but asking the refs to go to replay when I don't believe they can change that call gave Creighton a time out they didn't have and a chance to draw up a play, which turned out to be a wide open three that would have tied it. ( I won't even start in on how the play seemed to be have 15 tackle half the x team to get some one open since they wouldn't call anything on him all night) They won though and that's what matters and a lesson to be learned from that.

Steele didn't ask them to go look at anything. They went to look at the clock. I am sure he was mad that they were doing that and giving Creighton a free timeout.

[BMoreX]

Steele didn't ask them to go look at anything. They went to look at the clock. I am sure he was mad that they were doing that and giving Creighton a free timeout.

Yeah, I think he was mad at both the decision of "jump ball" as well as the basically free timeout that McDermott got.

[drudy23]

It was 2 things:

1) He was complaining it should have been a foul, which it probably should have been, and
2) It gave Creighton a time-out to draw up some action where they would have not had that luxury without a TO

I don't know if the wide open shooter was a result of the play design (or if the player just improvised), but it does show you what the extra time can bring to a good coach. That was a pre-game warm-up jump shot he was so open. He was in the right to question the stoppage of play under those circumstances as it gave an obvious advantage to Creighton in that situation.

[bleedXblue]

It was 2 things:

1) He was complaining it should have been a foul, which it probably should have been, and
2) It gave Creighton a time-out to draw up some action where they would have not had that luxury without a TO

I don't know if the wide open shooter was a result of the play design (or if the player just improvised), but it does show you what the extra time can bring to a good coach. That was a pre-game warm-up jump shot he was so open. He was in the right to question the stoppage of play under those circumstances as it gave an obvious advantage to Creighton in that situation.

Actually if Q would have boxed out his man, it would have negated Creighton tying him up after the rebound. I thought it was foul too, but not after reviewing the replay......

[cutterX]

I don’t wish him or his family any Ill will but I def wish his success from
Here on out nothing but failure. That shouldn’t be hard to do since he sucks. That lost to
duke will be the downfall of this years team. Steele is going to be Xavier’s all time everything.

I'm just glad someone finally took him out of the highlight video they show on the big screen before the game. That is a great highlight reel of all time great X players and moments but always thought it was a bit of a stretch to put Mack in there. I know it was due to unfortunate injuries but the guy never played more than a preseason game in an X uniform! And the clip was clearly from either some intramural game or pre-season workout and it just didn't fit with all the other X highlights. Even when he was the coach that always bothered me.

[Kahns Krazy]

I think we can all agree that the way people have reacted here is like white privileg.

[GoMuskies]

I think we can all agree that the way people have reacted here is like white privileg.

I guess I would have said it was more like white supremacy with a hint of patriarchal oppression by a group of people who are literally Hitler, but I can see where one would go that route.

[Masterofreality]

Ok we are all happy with a win, however tainted it was, but...

Creighton totally choked with a 2 point lead with 27 seconds left and the ball out of bounds on their end of the court by throwing the ball into Xavier's court from the sideline with A) A Time Out left to use, B) Xavier having only 5 team fouls that wouldn't create free throws. C) Gift wrapping a basket for Goodin to tie.
I guess you have to give Xavier's defense on the in bounds credit because they forced Creighton to use a T.O. before the throwaway, and then the giveaway, but Xavier, despite what I thought was a solid effort, got Hella Lucky last night. And I'm sure the Blue Jay Message Board melted down.
While we can be all happy that X won, the issues haven't gone away, in any respect. There are still numerous examples of coaching miscues that can be pointed out.

One win, that was gift wrapped doesn't change anything for me.

[vee4xu]

I have a long time friend whose a good golfer. When he’s having a bad round and then hits a good drive he says “one in a row.”

Last night was one in a row.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I have a long time friend whose a good golfer. When he’s having a bad round and then hits a good drive he says “one in a row.”

Last night was one in a row.

Amen.

[IM4X]

Despite being a Cincy native, X player and captain and all time winningest coach, Mack proved to be someone who ascribed no real value to any of that. Which is fine, but I'm not going to canonize him as someone who is to be enshrined in Xavier lore forever. Other coaches who came and went had no previous ties to Xavier. They were never really one of "us", but Mack was one of "us". To me, he lost his standing as one of "us" when he decided to hightail it to Louisville. That's totally his right, but I now place him somewhere between Matta at the worst end of the spectrum and Miller at the worse end of he spectrum. I will never wish him ill, but have no interest in anything he ever does again on, or off the basketball court.

Totally agree.

I always found him more than a little arrogant and full of himself. He got a little better at the end of his tenure, but it really bothered me the way he would often be a jerk to the media/press... and apparently he still does it.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2019/02/05/louisville-coach-chris-mack-apologizes-for-espn-interview/2779929002/

Nice job being rude to another reporter Mack during your halftime interview of the Louisville / VT game... then half heartedly apologizing for it later (I know your wife made you) but then, like the immature kid you are, you just had to make an “I don’t lose sleep over people who don’t like me” remark (twice). What a piece of work.

Some coaches are clearly in the “I’m okay with being a dick/jerk” camp (Bobby Knight, Jim Beheim, Chris Mack)

Some coaches are not (John Wooden, Jay Wright, Coach K). Being classy and gracious and respectful of others is something they deeply value.

Personally, I’d rather not ever have to watch a coach in the jerk/dick camp, so I am glad that I don’t have watch him anymore during X games.

For awhile, there seemed to be quite a few people on this board who defended him after he left. I couldn’t do that knowing the way he left and how he screwed this year’s team. I couldn’t ignoring the remarks he made to the media after leaving to help pump up his own image while making the X brand seem small.

No, I was not the biggest fan of Mack, and I certainly am not going to look the other way and pretend he was such a wonderful guy (or loyal alum), just because he had success coaching at X.

[scoscox]

Broering was on Mo egger's show just a little bit ago not understanding any dislike towards Mack. Doesn't think it makes sense everyone was taking so much pleasure in Mack/Louisville's collapse last night.

I was taking great pleasure. I do get that being a fan though causes irrational behavior. But I also don't think its completely irrational to not be cheering for Mack to have great success.

I don't understand the tendency sportswriters/commentators, etc. have to occasionally pretend they don't understand why fans are upset when bad things happen. Are they really surprised or dumbfounded that some fans get upset when a coach leaves or a team is playing badly? I highly doubt it. I guess maybe it stirs up discussion. Either way it's an annoying trait of a lot of current people in sports media.

[joe titan]

I have a long time friend whose a good golfer. When he’s having a bad round and then hits a good drive he says “one in a row.”

Last night was one in a row.

You know he is being uber sarcastic, right ?

[vee4xu]

You know he is being uber sarcastic, right ?

Who, may I ask, do you think is being totally sarcastic?

[UCGRAD4X]

Totally agree.

I always found him a more than a little arrogant and full of himself. He got a little better at the end of his tenure, but it really bothered me the way he would often be a jerk to the media/press... and apparently he still does it.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/ncaab/acc/2019/02/05/louisville-coach-chris-mack-apologizes-for-espn-interview/2779929002/

Nice job being rude to another reporter Mack during your halftime interview of the Louisville / VT game... then half heartedly apologizing for it later (I know your wife made you) but then, like the immature kid you are, you just had to make an “I don’t lose sleep over people who don’t like me” remark (twice). What a piece of work.

Some coaches are clearly in the “I’m okay with being a dick/jerk” camp (Bobby Knight, Jim Beheim, Chris Mack)

Some coaches are not (John Wooden, Jay Wright, Coach K). Being classy and gracious and respectful of others is something they deeply value.

Personally, I’d rather not ever have to watch a coach in the jerk/dick camp, so I am glad that I don’t have watch him anymore during X games.

For awhile, there seemed to be quite a few people on this board who defended him after he left. I couldn’t do that knowing the way he left and how he screwed this year’s team. I couldn’t ignoring the remarks he made to the media after leaving to help pump up his own image while making the X brand seem small.

No, I am was not the biggest fan of Mack, and I certainly am not going to look the other way and pretend he was such a wonderful guy (or loyal alum), just because he had success coaching at X.


Thank from one of the many old 'reader' wearing old guys for the large font.

[IM4X]

Thank from one of the many old 'reader' wearing old guys for the large font.

Uh... oh good... that was absolutely my intention. It certainly had nothing to do with the font size becoming bigger after I pasted the link or the fact that I couldn’t get it changed back no matter how many times I tried.

Sometime you’ve just gotta let it be.

[hydmuskie]

Providence game gave me a glimpse of what Steele's game plan looks like when properly executed - and I liked (most) of it.
1) Going through Ty and feeding him the ball. It wasn't just Q getting him the ball - others were too. And this was against the strength of Providence which is their inside play since they start 2 frosh Guards
2) To the naked eye (I have not reviewed the stats) the only time they settled for 3s was when we played the zone - and even then there was a conscious effort to have Ty and Zack come out to set a screen and hopefully jar something loose to get the ball in the middle
3) Spacing is much better and you can see Q swinging the ball for Naji/Scruggs to drive - or trying to get the ball inside - all in the same possession. The game plan is not complicated - but the guys seem to get the hang for it in the game. If the defense collapses - swing to Naji/Scruggs - if they stay out get the ball to Zack/Ty
4) They still need to have some more set plays drawn up to disrupt a zone defense - because they will see a ton of zone going forward. Not sure what that might be but maybe overloading 1 side of the floor to allow Naji to drive on the other side... because we are not capable of shooting over the zone.

The biggest thing to work on is turnovers. That disrupts our offensive rhythm and makes it so hard to defend when the other team is running on you.

Bottom line - we don't have the personnel to match up with a team that relies on outside shooting (Nova, Butler, Marquette) but with everyone else - we should be in the game.

[paulxu]

Crickets?

[xudash]

Crickets?

And rightfully so.

[GoMuskies]

Crickets?

Sticking with my original answer for now.