Game Thread: Xavier vs. Providence (January 23, 2019)

[paulxu]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kBAAAOSwqfNXkU44/s-l300.jpg VS. https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.358642286.1941/st%2Csmall%2C215x235-pad%2C210x230%2Cf8f8f8.lite-1u1.jpg

Xavier University Musketeers (11-8, 3-3 BE) vs. Providence College Friars (11-7, 1-4 BE)
Wednesday, January 23, 2019, 6:30 PM EST
Cintas Center (10,224) Cincinnati, OH

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

Notes and Stats (https://goxavier.com/news/2019/1/21/mens-basketball-returns-home-on-wednesday-night-to-host-providence.aspx?path=mbball)

Television: FS1 with play-by-play from Thom Brennaman and analysis from Dickey Simpkins.
Xavier Radio: 700 WLW-AM, including via iHeart Radio, TuneIn and via Sirius (137), XM (207) and Internet (965) with play-by-play from XU Hall of Famer and former Musketeer standout Joe Sunderman ('79). Analysis will be provided by Xavier Hall of Famer and XU all-time leading scorer Byron Larkin ('88).

Live Stats: Media stats at Statbroadcast.com. Fan stats at GoXavier.com.

[xu koop scoop]

One game at a time. Lets get to 4-3 in league play tonite

[GoMuskies]

X -3. I went with the ML. No way I'm going to be pissed about a 1 or 2 point Xavier win!

[fellahmuskie]

The thing I like about this season is that absolutely every game matters, if we have any chance at a good seed in the BET and going to the tournament.


Win tonight and we have a huge opportunity on Saturday. I would feel bad for Providence at 1-5, but better them in the cellar than us.

[xavier513]

Is Thom Brennaman really calling this game? Has he ever called a college basketball game (or any basketball game) before? I'll be in attendance, so someone will have to give me a review.

[GoMuskies]

Thom called a Xavier game like two weeks ago. Georgetown game, maybe?

[xavier513]

Thom called a Xavier game like two weeks ago. Georgetown game, maybe?

I'll be damned. I don't watch the home games on TV.

[scoscox]

I don’t know how common it is for him but he also called the shootout in 96 aka the Lenny brown game so it’s definitely not new to him

[Xuperman]

I see this game (and PC going forward) all about keeping NATE WATSON from going off. We all know that Alpha will get his, but this sophomore Big is starting to look more and more like how Creighton’s Marcus Patton could dominate as a youngster. I feel good that Ty and Zach can neutralize him and we get the big W.

[sirthought]

Simpkins is a Providence alum. It will be interesting to see how neutral the call is.

[xu koop scoop]

Pete Gillen left XU to Coach Providence. Made sense for Pete at the time. It wouldn't make sense now. Enough said.

[GoMuskies]

For a minute I thought our game been bumped for boxing.

[GoMuskies]

These colors are a bit too close to one another.

[xu82]

These colors are a bit too close to one another.

I’m glad that’s not just me!

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Naji... wide open air ball.

[noteggs]

I’m glad that’s not just me!

Especially if you still have a black and white tv

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Q has Welage wide open in the corner, decides to bank in a three. Just like Steele drew it up. lol

[GoMuskies]

Perhaps that's Q's new strategy on shooting 3s?

[GoMuskies]

Impossible standard, but if we played like this for 40 minutes, we could beat just about anyone. This team shows some flashes.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

get an offensive rebound off of a good take by Paul, for Q to take a step back three right after, without a single pass.

[noteggs]

Umm. Providence has 3 point shooter in game. Please put someone on him

[GoMuskies]

We were as shitty in that stretch as we were good in the first 8 minutes.

[GoMuskies]

It's a good think Providence isn't very good. They should be killing us at this point. Jesus, these last 7 minutes have been awful.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

This offense is just brutal to watch. Providence literally should have 4.5 defenders all within the block. Once the ball goes to the post, neither Hankins or Rique will pass it, and I'm not sure they have a reason to.

[GoMuskies]

16-2

And if Providence was any good it would be more like 30-2.

[BMoreX]

Goodin has been...not great tonight

[XfansinKy]

Do something Kyle! Anything! Even if it's wrong.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Goodin has been...not great tonight

not just tonight.

[noteggs]

Very surprised on the last 10 minutes. That was bad basketball

[whopper]

a Welage touch

[GoMuskies]

Ryan Welage, point forward!

[kellernr]

Naji is trash.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Xville]

Man this team makes me sad. The talent is just not there.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Naji and Q have been abysmal in their "new roles." Just play basketball, for the love.

[GoMuskies]

That's a shitty call on Naji.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

QG with FOUR first half turnovers. JFC.


Edit: in 11 minutes... that's gotta be some kind of record.

[noteggs]

Man this team makes me sad. The talent is just not there.

Not according to the analyst, he said Mack left team with talent

[Xville]

QG with FOUR first half turnovers. JFC.


Edit: in 11 minutes... that's gotta be some kind of record.

Yet aviator thinks its ridiculous when I say q is detrimental to this team. Sorry but he is...the way he has played this year has been downright awful.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Yet aviator thinks its ridiculous when I say q is detrimental to this team. Sorry but he is...the way he has played this year has been downright awful.

It's unfortunate, but idk what you do with him when he's playing like this. What does he bring to the table when he isn't effectively handling and distributing? He can SOMETIMES get to the rim, but is incredibly ineffective finishing if it isn't a dunk.

[whopper]

I can recall Q overpowering people on fast breaks but I see very few breaks, just a few after a Scruggs steal. I don't like Q probing at all sorry to say. I think the double low post is our best hope but need players who can spread and balance the court. I think that could be Welage but it seems if he misses a shot he is pulled. Damn

[AviatorX]

Yet aviator thinks its ridiculous when I say q is detrimental to this team. Sorry but he is...the way he has played this year has been downright awful.

It's still ridiculous - short of taking a crowbar to someone's kneecap in practice, nothing Q can do this season will make him "detrimental to the team."

[IM4X]

It's unfortunate, but idk what you do with him when he's playing like this. What does he bring to the table when he isn't effectively handling and distributing? He can SOMETIMES get to the rim, but is incredibly ineffective finishing if it isn't a dunk.

I think that’s the answer. From now on he has to dunk every time he drives.

[kellernr]

That's a shitty call on Naji.It was shitty call to put him back on the floor.

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[Xville]

It's still ridiculous - short of taking a crowbar to someone's kneecap in practice, nothing Q can do this season will make him "detrimental to the team."

Take off your q colored glasses. Hes not helping this team. I wish that wasnt the case, but hes not. Offense runs so.much more smoothly when hes not in the game.

[paulxu]

I was hoping someone would have changed into a white uniform at half time.

Also, have I mentioned I hate 1 on 5 basketball?

[xu82]

Umm. Providence has 3 point shooter in game. Please put someone on him

I’d rather borrow him!

[Xville]

Alright...good start to 2nd half...let's go!

[Xville]

There you go naji...that's your game!

And then...he does that...ugh

[paulxu]

Yes please...share the ball.

[xu82]

Naji getting sloppy. When he’s good he can be great, but.....

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

There you go naji...that's your game!

And then...he does that...ugh

4 on Naji though. Not good.

[whopper]

castling has been good..

[xu82]

4 on Naji though. Not good.

....or might it help. He is SO frustrating!

[BMoreX]

Jump ball my ass

[xu82]

Jump ball my ass

That’s either a travel or a foul. Maybe they compromised???

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

....or might it help. He is SO frustrating!

Not if Welage isn’t making shots. But I know that turnover was frustrating. Can’t stay in control.

[kellernr]

Came back from down 7 to take the lead. Now tied with Q on the bench. Let's see what direction the score goes if Q coms back in

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[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Came back from down 7 to take the lead. Now tied with Q on the bench. Let's see what direction the score goes if Q coms back in

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Welp... nice lob Q

[kellernr]

The offense goes stagnant with Q in the floor

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[paulxu]

Can you imagine how our season might be without a bazillion turnovers?

[xu82]

Can you imagine how our season might be without a bazillion turnovers?

No.

[kellernr]

Back down 6. If Q is on he floor the last 2 minutes of the game we can mark it down as a loss.

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[MITTENMUSKIE16]

To be fair, it also probably has to do with being without Naji, but Q still just does not look very good at all

[XfansinKy]

Offense stalls every time Q comes in. I think the role Castlin is playing is the role Q was more comfortable in the last couple years. He's not a PG, SG, or a SF, so I don't know.

[Xavier]

Tricky situation. The team is currently better without Q but reaching our potential we need him. At this point we don’t have the luxury of him playing out of it- sit the guy

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Good for Q for that to fall.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

I synch the Joe and Byron to the TV.

I am glad the Martha Stewart menu spots are gone from the radio feed.

See you all at the Marquette tilt.

That is all.

[kellernr]

Good for Q for that to fall.Ya. But now hes goin to chuck an ill advised 3 since that one went in.

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[Xville]

I don't think we can afford to sit naji for any longer.

[XfansinKy]

Maybe Q needs to be getting those minutes Kyle gets at his position? I don't know. We got sometime 2 guards on the floor that aren't shooters.

[kellernr]

Q should be benched for letting his guy shoot a wide open 3

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[Xville]

Man this team is just so yuck

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

What a disappointing game.

[xu82]

I remember when we used to be good.

[noteggs]

This is what a decent talented team looks like without a 3 point shooter

[kellernr]

Love these offensive sets. Q - 2 dribbles turn and pass. Scruggs 2 dribbles turn and pass. Naji 3 dribbles pass it right back. Throw up an ugly 3or turnover.

This team needs to play with some fire. No is the only one in foul trouble. Scruggs and Q need to be driving the lane. Dribbling into double and triple teams isnt smart basketball.

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[Xavier]

Frustrating

[noteggs]

Think Providence is playing the pack and extra pack line on us

[Xville]

I really thought they had turned a corner the last three games with their play but I was duped. They are what they are...not very talented and parts that just dont fit well together. It's very frustrating because there are flashes of good but then its followed up by sloppy low IQ play.

[xu82]

We will be good again, but there will be some pain between here and there. That’s how it works.

[Xavier]

Love these offensive sets. Q - 2 dribbles turn and pass. Scruggs 2 dribbles turn and pass. Naji 3 dribbles pass it right back. Throw up an ugly 3or turnover.

This team needs to play with some fire. No is the only one in foul trouble. Scruggs and Q need to be driving the lane. Dribbling into double and triple teams isnt smart basketball.

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Well, driving the lane against the zone is driving into double and triple teams.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Xavier has scored 32 points in 27 minutes.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Desperately need these two free throws. Come on Naj.

Edit: I was just predicting the future after I saw that we weren’t in the bonus

[Xville]

And here comes the flashes of good that get my hopes up again.

[xu82]

Play on the ball there? Or just a NOLA style tackle on the guy who might score. Give me intentional or the and one.

[noteggs]

Surprising Providence analyst guy says no foul before shot. BS

[Xville]

Come on guys geezus..calm down and get a good shot

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

That was an absolutely abysmal possession that you just can’t have.


Draw something up for Welage here, with Paul as the secondary option.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Fucking Paul. Let’s go.

[xu82]

If we do not conquer the Friars, I suggest we retire the gray unis.


So I can tell who’s who easier.

[Xville]

Paul is a freaking player, and naji does something completely out of control.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

No. Naji no. Come on. You can’t do that.

[kellernr]

Naji is soooooooo F*CKING BAD at dribbling

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[xu82]

Get up Naji! You are out of control. Learn from it!

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Who let him bring the ball up.

[xu82]

He was not “hit on the head”. He lost the ball with the game on the line and dove into a guy in desperation.

[xu82]

Naji needs to learn he is NOT a guard.

[XfansinKy]

Quentin Goodin has lost his way.

[Xville]

This team is beyond frustrating. The shot at the end is the epitome of what this team does. That's a bad look....go to the freaking rim.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Q fucking fell asleep and cost us a couple seconds by absolutely falling asleep on the inbound. Paul’s travel. Naji doing whatever he did. Just can’t lose that game. Under any circumstances.

[kellernr]

It would be great if steel would stop using all the timeouts before the final 2 minutes of each game.

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[whopper]

18 to 10 turnovers..the story of the game. I can't knock anybody but there are huge issues. I see Welage as a nice safety valve on these plays but no one else does I guess

[Xavier]

That end seems to sum up the season. Can’t get out of our own way

[IM4X]

1. Scruggs got fouled on that call for a walk. Missed call.

Naji doesn’t know how to settle down...Way too much sloppiness, but Steele could have stepped in two times with a time out and help out but he didn’t.

[kellernr]

18 to 10 turnovers..the story of the game. I can't knock anybody but there are huge issues.Knock the guards. 11 TOs to 5 AST.

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[paulxu]

Two chances to win.
What do we do?
1 on 5 street ball and a TO both times.
Pass the ball for a good shot? Nah...hot dog time.
Damn this one hurts.

[XfansinKy]

Now Castlin can have all the minutes Steele wants him to get. We couldn't lose this game and expect an at large birth.

[bjf123]

Providence kept trying to give it away, but we wouldn’t take it. Unfucking believable.


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[Xville]

That end seems to sum up the season. Can’t get out of our own way

Yep...just like I said. Providence gave us every opportunity to win that game and it was mental mistake over and over.

[kellernr]

1. Scruggs got fouled on that call for a walk. Missed call.

way too much sloppy, but two times Steele could have stepped in with a time out and helped and he didn’t.Yeah. He didnt travel. He was pushed whic caused him to drag his foot

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[Xavier]

1. Scruggs got fouled on that call for a walk. Missed call.

way too much sloppy, but two times Steele could have stepped in with a time out and helped and he didn’t.

At the end? X didn’t have any time outs left. But I think Scruggs traveled before getting fouled

[paulxu]

Very difficult to get an assist if you don't pass the ball.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

18 turnovers just won’t do it. At about 6 or 7 critical possessions too. Paul had an up and down game today with 5 TOs, but he is the lone bright spot for this team right now.

[HenryMuto]

From 1 seed to NIT.

[IM4X]

Yeah. He didnt travel. He was pushed whic caused him to drag his foot

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Exactly... blown call

[kellernr]

Now Castlin can have all the minutes Steele wants him to get. We couldn't lose this game and expect an at large birth.Still can steal 2 wins from Marquette and Nova. Just no more bad losses

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[kellernr]

From 1 seed to NIT.Didnt UK go from a 1 seed to the NIT?

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[IM4X]

At the end? X didn’t have any time outs left. But I think Scruggs traveled before getting fouled

Watch the replay if you can... He gets pushed by the Providence player which cause him to move and then he gets called for the travel.

[X Factor]

Still can steal 2 wins from Marquette and Nova. Just no more bad losses

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Is this serious?

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Looking back at these last 7 BE games, you don’t have to squint very hard to see 0-7. That is very sad.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

That was ugly, god awful basketball. This team will have to play their way into the NIT. Naji just tries to do too much and his judgement has been poor. Maybe that is part of being thrust into the spotlight too soon. Before the season started, I thought Q was going to be our strength. He has had a few good moments, like his defensive effort at DePaul. But, his play in multiple games has hurt this team. I don't know how a three year starter ends up making some of the decisions he has made. I just don't get it.

[bjf123]

Two chances to win.
What do we do?
1 on 5 street ball and a TO both times.
Pass the ball for a good shot? Nah...hot dog time.
Damn this one hurts.

^^^This^^^


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[drudy23]

That was ugly, god awful basketball. This team will have to play their way into the NIT. Naji just tries to do too much and his judgement has been poor. Maybe that is part of being thrust into the spotlight too soon. Before the season started, I thought Q was going to be our strength. He has had a few good moments, like his defensive effort at DePaul. But, his play in multiple games has hurt this team. I don't know how a three year starter ends up making some of the decisions he has made. I just don't get it.

Why anyone would want to watch this team in the NIT is beyond me. If it comes to that, end the misery.

[Xville]

Why anyone would want to watch this team in the NIT is beyond me. If it comes to that, end the misery.

I dont want to watch this team now, but yet here I am punishing myself.

[whopper]

I have always hated to write this but we don't use Welage enough. I notice when players were out(Q, Tyripue, Naji) he have us some nice 13-18 pt games and floor balance. He is out there playing and I think could be utilized more.

[Lloyd Braun]

Watch the replay if you can... He gets pushed by the Providence player which cause him to move and then he gets called for the travel.

Scruggs traveled before getting fouled. He jump stopped and dragged his right foot. Maybe he got nudged some but they really only called fouls on Naji tonight. I’ve never seen a team need 4 fouls at the end of the game to get to bonus, while also having someone foul out. Speaking of which it was evident they were going to need to foul at the end and that wasted a LOT of time. Another good learning point for coach steele.

Couple other takeaways:
-Castlin is worthless on offense. Defense is also not great but nobody’s is. Remember the Malcolm Bernard comps in the off-season? Wow. Just wow.
-Naji is an enigma.
-Welage remains ridiculously underused for a team that can’t score. When PC went to zone he is out top swinging the ball around. He should be in the corner waiting for it to come to him.
-Scruggs is real good. Could be better if he drew more fouls. He gets guys up in the air then fades away. Go strong!!
-Q ain’t right and it doesn’t look like it’s coming back anytime soon. Not explosive at all.

[whopper]

Castlin did have 10 rebounds today. The 18 turnovers were the ballgame and as you said swing to Welage for a 3 means no turnover and a shot or an offensive rebound opportunity. I feel a little bad for the grad transfers as I feel they have kind of done their job and are let down a little by the returnees. I will still enjoy watching the game but don't see a path forward but no need to stop trying. And now Marquette...a little ominous but maybe we will rise to occasion

[drudy23]

Agree on Q's explosiveness. That aspect of his game made him special. He doesn't have that level of explosiveness which tells me something isn't right physically. He also looks fatigued mentally. Never has the killer look anymore.

We are what we are. Average.

[XUBison]

Watch the replay if you can... He gets pushed by the Providence player which cause him to move and then he gets called for the travel.


We did not lose because of blown calls. We lost because we are dumb... absolutely dumb.

[bjf123]

I dont want to watch this team now, but yet here I am punishing myself.

I’m starting to feel like I did with the Bengals. Just don’t care to go to the game. I’m not looking forward to Saturday’s game at all. I’ll be there, but I’m not looking forward to it. That will probably change before the game (I hope).


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[GreatWhiteNorth]

We lost because of the turnovers. It was difficult to watch.

[XUBison]

Agree on Q's explosiveness. That aspect of his game made him special. He doesn't have that level of explosiveness which tells me something isn't right physically. He also looks fatigued mentally. Never has the killer look anymore.

We are what we are. Average.


Maybe we can trade Gooden for Carmelo Anthony... Orr maybe cash?

[IM4X]

We did not lose because of blown calls. We lost because we are dumb... absolutely dumb.

In no way am I suggesting that we played a great game and only lost because of a blown call.

We certainly saw a team make several brilliant plays to put themselves in a good position to win only to keep shooting themselves in the foot with (as you pointed out) dumb decisions. Naji can not seem to settle down and wait for teammates after making a big play. ItÂ’s like he just canÂ’t help himself but try to do it all one he makes a bucket.

To me, a lot of this is on Steele for not getting these guys to understand how to slow it down and get yourself under control when you make a great steal and have a chance to tie or go ahead, These guys force so much. The players get overly excited when they get any kind of momentum and then become reckless... and Steele needs to really work on teaching them what they need to do in those situations so they do not squander away those types of opportunities.

[IM4X]

Scruggs traveled before getting fouled. He jump stopped and dragged his right foot. Maybe he got nudged some but they really only called fouls on Naji tonight. IÂ’ve never seen a team need 4 fouls at the end of the game to get to bonus, while also having someone foul out. Speaking of which it was evident they were going to need to foul at the end and that wasted a LOT of time. Another good learning point for coach steele.

Couple other takeaways:
-Castlin is worthless on offense. Defense is also not great but nobodyÂ’s is. Remember the Malcolm Bernard comps in the off-season? Wow. Just wow.
-Naji is an enigma.
-Welage remains ridiculously underused for a team that canÂ’t score. When PC went to zone he is out top swinging the ball around. He should be in the corner waiting for it to come to him.
-Scruggs is real good. Could be better if he drew more fouls. He gets guys up in the air then fades away. Go strong!!
-Q ainÂ’t right and it doesnÂ’t look like itÂ’s coming back anytime soon. Not explosive at all.

Looked again... it still looks to me that he got pushed which caused him to travel. Regardless, it wasn’t like they didn’t have other chance to win the game. That was a rough ending. Still think Steele should have prepared the guys a little better... even could have yelled from the bench... “Slow it down guys... you have time.”

Castlin was someone who was solid at timesand awful at other times.

Aside from hitting 2 3s, Q had another rough night- bad turnovers and some poor defense at key moments.

To me Naji is more predictable than an enigma. When he makes a big play, it’s as if a huge rush of adrenaline starts pumping through him, causing him to lose all reason. It’s like he becomes a monster who has to take possession of the ball the next time on offensive and he has to force a shot no matter how many defenders are in his way or how poor of a shot selection it might be. He forgets he has teammates. This is something we have seen all season and something Steele and his staff need to be pointing out to him.

On the one hand you gotta love that Naji wants to will this team to victory, but he needs to understand that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to be the one who scores the winning bucket.

[bjf123]

It seems like the team has two sides. For part of the game, no one wanted to shoot. They’d pass up open shots to make one or two more passes before someone had to throw up a shot before the shot clock expired. At other times, Naji, Paul, or Q, would play like they were all alone and were not going to even look for someone else. They had the ball and they were taking it to the rim, regardless of the defense in the way.


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[noteggs]

Just trying to cheer everyone up this morning. Just saw on Twitter, Zach Harvey who is a top 40 recruit (2020) has an official visit with X tomorrow.

[xuwin]

Hard to decide which was worse, Xavier's performance or having to listen to Thom Brenneman and his annoying sidekick for 2 hours.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Scruggs traveled before getting fouled. He jump stopped and dragged his right foot. Maybe he got nudged some but they really only called fouls on Naji tonight. I’ve never seen a team need 4 fouls at the end of the game to get to bonus, while also having someone foul out. Speaking of which it was evident they were going to need to foul at the end and that wasted a LOT of time. Another good learning point for coach steele.

Couple other takeaways:
-Castlin is worthless on offense. Defense is also not great but nobody’s is. Remember the Malcolm Bernard comps in the off-season? Wow. Just wow.
-Naji is an enigma.
-Welage remains ridiculously underused for a team that can’t score. When PC went to zone he is out top swinging the ball around. He should be in the corner waiting for it to come to him.
-Scruggs is real good. Could be better if he drew more fouls. He gets guys up in the air then fades away. Go strong!!
-Q ain’t right and it doesn’t look like it’s coming back anytime soon. Not explosive at all.


Castlin hit that big shot last weekend against Butler and the Malcolm Bernard comparisons came out again----this time reminding everyone that it took Bernard some games into the season before he became offensively productive. From what I've seen, Castlin is on the floor for one reason. He is not a scorer and his defense is average. But, he doesn't make dumb mistakes. On this team that characteristic stands out as a strength.

So, I generally agree with your assessment but I think you may be over-rating Welage. He is very much a spot up shooter. If he can set his feet and get an open look, you and I both agree that he should shoot it every time. But, Providence (and everyone else) knows that as well. There was a particular moment from last night, I recall, that illustrates his game's singularity. In the second half, Welage was outside the three point line to the right of the key and Providence was in a zone. The Providence defender came out past the three point line to guard him; the defense would simply not give Welage an open look. Just about the next time X was on offense, Castlin was in that same spot and Providence was still playing that zone. The ball swung over to Castlin (who again, was behind the three point line). This time the defender was, at least, five feet away---looking at him and in position but five feet away. I recall this moment because I remember thinking this one more example of disrespect for Castlin's shooting.

So, if I'm the other coach, no matter where Welage goes on the court, he is going to receive a defender's attention. And, X isn't able to make defenses pay a price when they focus on Welage and so, I think, they will continue to play him very closely. In addition, even though closely guarding him should present other opportunities, I can recall Welage putting the ball on the floor and going past a defender, only a couple of times this entire season. He doesn't take the ball to the rack. He is a very competent three point shooter but just very one dimensional. If we had other outside shooters or a couple of guys who could flash the paint, hit 12'-15' shots or dump in down low to Hankins/Tyrique, we could make defenses pay. Absent that, I just don't know how we can make dramatically better use of Welage's skills.

[Lloyd Braun]

Welage has more skills than he is utilized currently. He is more than a spot up shooter and can put the ball on the floor against bigs. He did it last night which resulted in an easy dunk. Even as a spot up shooter he is not in the position for that regardless of who else is on the floor. He should be running through screens and on the baseline against the zone to get to the corners. He isn’t. He’s on the wing with 3 other guys swinging the ball around for Castlin, Q, or Naji to jack up a 3. When the offense goes into a slump it’s very frustrating; everyone stands around and waits for someone to do something. Most of this is personnel but there is some lack of scheme for that personnel too.

[American X]

Just got to the board. I was busy picking up my inner organs after being slowly gutted with a dull knife at the end of the game last night.

[BandDad]

I have compiled each players plus minus last night for how the team did when they were on the floor in terms of score only.

Marshall +12, Jones +8, Scruggs +3, Welage +2, Harden +0, Castlin -9, Hankins - 11, Goodin -13. Interesting to see. I will do the same thing for the Nova game and post shortly.

For Villanova game:
Harden +10, Hankins -1, Welage -3, Jones -9, Scruggs -10, Marshall -10, Castlin -10, Goodin -17. Yes the Harden number is correct. He only played a few minutes and X went from down 5 to up 6 in the first half.

I may try to do some more tonight to see if we have a trend here and get some totals. For individual games there can also be some other factors, but over a longer period of time I would think these numbers have too hold true.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

I have compiled each players plus minus last night for how the team did when they were on the floor in terms of score only.

Marshall +12, Jones +8, Scruggs +3, Welage +2, Hardin +0, Castlin -9, Hankins - 11, Goodin -13. Interesting to see. I will do the same thing for the Nova game and post shortly.

Wow, thanks for this. Very interesting, but really not all that surprising. When Naji picked up his 4th with 13 to go, it went really downhill.

[GoMuskies]

short of taking a crowbar to someone's kneecap in practice, nothing Q can do this season will make him "detrimental to the team."



Jesus, apparently Q took a crowbar to someone's knee in practice.

[BandDad]

I have compiled each players plus minus last night for how the team did when they were on the floor in terms of score only.

Marshall +12, Jones +8, Scruggs +3, Welage +2, Harden +0, Castlin -9, Hankins - 11, Goodin -13. Interesting to see. I will do the same thing for the Nova game and post shortly.



For Villanova game:
Harden +10, Hankins -1, Welage -3, Jones -9, Scruggs -10, Marshall -10, Castlin -10, Goodin -17. Yes the Harden number is correct. He only played a few minutes and X went from down 5 to up 6 in the first half.

I may try to do some more tonight to see if we have a trend here and get some totals. For individual games there can also be some other factors, but over a longer period of time I would think these numbers have too hold true.

[AviatorX]

Jesus, apparently Q took a crowbar to someone's knee in practice.

Admittedly, with the way things went last night after I posted, seems like he might be reading my posts and trying to prove me wrong.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I have compiled each players plus minus last night for how the team did when they were on the floor in terms of score only.

Marshall +12, Jones +8, Scruggs +3, Welage +2, Harden +0, Castlin -9, Hankins - 11, Goodin -13. Interesting to see. I will do the same thing for the Nova game and post shortly.

For Villanova game:
Harden +10, Hankins -1, Welage -3, Jones -9, Scruggs -10, Marshall -10, Castlin -10, Goodin -17. Yes the Harden number is correct. He only played a few minutes and X went from down 5 to up 6 in the first half.

I may try to do some more tonight to see if we have a trend here and get some totals. For individual games there can also be some other factors, but over a longer period of time I would think these numbers have too hold true.


Let me see if I understand the calculation. Is this how you did it?

You noted the score difference when the player entered the game, looked at the score difference when the player left the game and noted the change (positive or negative). If the player entered/exited the game more than once, you summed the differences (again, positive or negative) to come to a net difference?

If this is how you did it, I need to think about the number and reflect on what it tells us. I'm not sure it has value but maybe it says something. I'm unsure about it right now.

Is this your methodology or did you perform the calculation in another manner?

[XUBison]

I have compiled each players plus minus last night for how the team did when they were on the floor in terms of score only.

Marshall +12, Jones +8, Scruggs +3, Welage +2, Harden +0, Castlin -9, Hankins - 11, Goodin -13. Interesting to see. I will do the same thing for the Nova game and post shortly.

For Villanova game:
Harden +10, Hankins -1, Welage -3, Jones -9, Scruggs -10, Marshall -10, Castlin -10, Goodin -17. Yes the Harden number is correct. He only played a few minutes and X went from down 5 to up 6 in the first half.

I may try to do some more tonight to see if we have a trend here and get some totals. For individual games there can also be some other factors, but over a longer period of time I would think these numbers have too hold true.


Boy, You’d never guess just from watching that Q was playing so poorly.

[XUBison]

Let me see if I understand the calculation. Is this how you did it?

You noted the score difference when the player entered the game, looked at the score difference when the player left the game and noted the change (positive or negative). If the player entered/exited the game more than once, you summed the differences (again, positive or negative) to come to a net difference?

If this is how you did it, I need to think about the number and reflect on what it tells us. I'm not sure it has value but maybe it says something. I'm unsure about it right now.

Is this your methodology or did you perform the calculation in another manner?

Player ”+/-” is a commonly used metric in bball and has been for many years. I suppose it’s merit is debatable on it’s own... lots of variables, especially from one game to the next. At the very least, it can serve as a red flag to indicate whether a deeper dive is required to assess a player’s actual performance, especially when a player’s +/- is consistent over a sizable number of games.

[BandDad]

Let me see if I understand the calculation. Is this how you did it?

You noted the score difference when the player entered the game, looked at the score difference when the player left the game and noted the change (positive or negative). If the player entered/exited the game more than once, you summed the differences (again, positive or negative) to come to a net difference?

If this is how you did it, I need to think about the number and reflect on what it tells us. I'm not sure it has value but maybe it says something. I'm unsure about it right now.

Is this your methodology or did you perform the calculation in another manner?

That is the way I performed the calculation. Again over a one or two game period there would be a lot of factors that could affect that number, mainly who else is on the court for the opponent and who else was on the court for X. Over a larger number of games, though, that should even itself out and we ought to get a better feel.

[Masterofreality]

I've been waiting a Loooooooonnnnggg time to post after that last night to calm down, break down the replay then comment.
I have only 3 things to say:
A) The fact that this team had 18 turnovers vs a team playing primarily a zone defense is appalling. It also says how badly the decisions were- especially by Q who had 8 TO's in only 24 minutes. That equates to 13 TO's over a full game. Much of that was the way that Providence played their zone- that is packed in and NOT spread out. It also goes to the fact that Xavier still has no concept on how to beat this zone because they don't have the outside shooters to make it loosen up and Q especially was trying to force stuff into places where there were no spaces.
B) Providence only shot 28% from 3 point line, and Xavier was playing a zone too. But Providence was also able to get shots inside. Why? Because of how Xavier DID NOT PLAY their zone- staying packed in. They got themselves spread out despite the fact that it was known that Providence couldn't throw a ball in the ocean from deep, which was known before the game. Either these guys basketball IQ is horrible (which I believe) or the Staff didn't reinforce it enough in time outs but in either case, the difference was striking.
C) Leave Q on the bench. Something is off with that dude. I don't know if its off the court stuff, if he's just in a slump or if he and Travis don't see eye to eye, but he is killing this team. The two best games Xavier has played all year was where Q got no minutes. In the plus/minus stat shown by BandDad, Q is last by a pile. Dude needs a long remedial session with Mr. Pine. Thank Gawd for Paul Scruggs and I'm not gonna trash Naji. He was trying to make a play.

Anyway. All postseason thoughts are gone, brothers. Just gonna hope for a .500 season at this point and some positive points. Sure is less stressful this way, but not as pleasureable.

[fellahmuskie]

I've been waiting a Loooooooonnnnggg time to post after that last night to calm down, break down the replay then comment.
I have only 3 things to say:
A) The fact that this team had 18 turnovers vs a team playing primarily a zone defense is appalling. It also says how badly the decisions were- especially by Q who had 8 TO's in only 24 minutes. That equates to 13 TO's over a full game. Much of that was the way that Providence played their zone- that is packed in and NOT spread out. It also goes to the fact that Xavier still has no concept on how to beat this zone because they don't have the outside shooters to make it loosen up and Q especially was trying to force stuff into places where there were no spaces.
B) Providence only shot 28% from 3 point line, and Xavier was playing a zone too. But Providence was also able to get shots inside. Why? Because of how Xavier DID NOT PLAY their zone- staying packed in. They got themselves spread out despite the fact that it was known that Providence couldn't throw a ball in the ocean from deep, which was known before the game. Either these guys basketball IQ is horrible (which I believe) or the Staff didn't reinforce it enough in time outs but in either case, the difference was striking.
C) Leave Q on the bench. Something is off with that dude. I don't know if its off the court stuff, if he's just in a slump or if he and Travis don't see eye to eye, but he is killing this team. The two best games Xavier has played all year was where Q got no minutes. In the plus/minus stat shown by BandDad, Q is last by a pile. Dude needs a long remedial session with Mr. Pine. Thank Gawd for Paul Scruggs and I'm not gonna trash Naji. He was trying to make a play.

Anyway. All postseason thoughts are gone, brothers. Just gonna hope for a .500 season at this point and some positive points. Sure is less stressful this way, but not as pleasureable.

Agree with all of this. I remember the crap Dee Davis used to get on here and at Cintas. Man, would we all take him in a heartbeat as our pg right now. I'm afraid to see Q in the game unless we're up 20 or down 20.

[Backyard Champ]

Sure, he's going through a rough patch. 100 percent would rather have Q over Dee Davis. Don't be ridiculous.

[fellahmuskie]

Sure, he's going through a rough patch. 100 percent would rather have Q over Dee Davis. Don't be ridiculous.

I just mean over the last few games. Obviously Q can make this team so much better when he's firing on all cylinders.