Game Thread: Xavier vs. DePaul (12/29/2018)

[paulxu]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kBAAAOSwqfNXkU44/s-l300.jpg VS. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ab/8c/08/ab8c08f4176b9da3d0ad1d87c8422682.png



Xavier University Musketeers (8-5, 0-0 BE) vs. DePaul Blue Demons (8-3, 0-0 BE)
Saturday, December 29, 2018: 2:00 PM, EST
Wintrust Arena (10,387), Chicago, IL

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

Radio Link (https://goxavier.com/watch/?Live=1334&type=Live)

Notes and Stats (https://goxavier.com/news/2018/12/27/mens-basketball-opens-big-east-conference-play-on-saturday-at-depaul.aspx?path=mbball)

Television: FS1 with play-by-play from Jeff Levering and analysis from DePaul alum Stephen Howard

Radio: 700 WLW-AM with Joe Sunderman '79 (play-by-play) and Bryon Larkin '88 (analysis).

[paulxu]

Good news: We're on before the college football playoffs begin.

Bad news: We're 1 point dogs. Has this ever happened in the BE versus DePaul?

Time to start playing like the Muskies of old. Let's do this thing:logo:

[whopper]

nothing lasts forever and we won't be a national contender this year. However the core 4 know what to do, and the grad transfers have been pretty much as promised. Now you can watch a game without knowing the outcome ahead of time and hopefully revel in us playing the favorites tough instead of being annoyed at X for allowing G-Town, St Johns, Depaul etc to keep it close. Good luck to all and may the best team win.

[AviatorX]

Very important take here - but did anyone else prefer last season's uniforms with the contrast on the color? Thought that gave X a unique look. Just been noticing the old ones in all the promos FS1 is running.

[bobbiemcgee]

Good news: We're on before the college football playoffs begin.

Bad news: We're 1 point dogs. Has this ever happened in the BE versus DePaul?

Time to start playing like the Muskies of old. Let's do this thing:logo:

Get used to it. Don't think we'll be favored against any BE team this season.

[AviatorX]

Get used to it. Don't think we'll be favored against any BE team this season.

Lol...c'mon. KenPom shows X as favorites against Seton Hall, Georgetown, Providence, St. John's, and DePaul (duh...considering today's line) at home. That's half the league.

[Xville]

Get used to it. Don't think we'll be favored against any BE team this season.

I think you are basing this on the be of years past. This version of the conference isnt very good. While I dont expect us to have a winning conference record, I do think we have the opportunity to win 6-8 games because competition is pretty lackluster.

[noteggs]

Sounds like Ty and Naji are expected to play

[paulxu]

Nice start.

[noteggs]

Yes nice start. Looks like they are talking more on defense

[Lloyd Braun]

Admittedly, I didn’t think I would be as morbidly curious with Louisville/CM as I am.... actually clicked to that game during timeout. Saw CMs jacket and had to turn back to FS1 after nearly going blind.

[Lloyd Braun]

Yes nice start. Looks like they are talking more on defense


Yes nice switching and overall effort on D. We’ll see if it lasts.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Naji and Q really lifting from three today.

[Lloyd Braun]

Q chucking 3s all season is going to be a problem. 4 per game should be his limit... and that’s generous.

[paulxu]

If Goodin is 1-6 from 3, and Welage is 3-4...perhaps you might want to...aah screw it. What do I know.

[Xville]

Does q think he is a good shooter or something? Someone needs to tell him the truth on the coaching staff.

[xu82]

I’ve been more listening than watching until recently, but the D is encouraging.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Does q think he is a good shooter or something? Someone needs to tell him the truth on the coaching staff.

Someone needs to tell Q that there is a reason he is open for all those three ball attempts. I don't see Castlin doing anything offensively. He had once nice deflection but cannot otherwise tell, from television, how he is defending. With DePaul in that zone, I cannot imagine Hardin wouldn't see at least a few minutes. We know he's willing to take the three and I think I'd rather see him that watching Q jack em up.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I don’t understand why 100% of teams don’t play zone 100% of the time against us

[Muskie]

I don’t understand why we don’t take more shots in the paint. The kick out is nice, but we don’t need to do it each time down the floor. Also, would love to see Q drive more instead of taking 3’s.


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[AviatorX]

Not sure there’s much room for complaint with that effort. Halfway to opening BE play with a road W.

[noteggs]

Respectable first half despite some bad shot selection.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Not sure there’s much room for complaint with that effort. Halfway to opening BE play with a road W.

Agree. Better defensive effort than I expected to see. That says something about this team's heart. But, Jesus Christ almighty, Q should be the last option for taking a three.

[xudash]

The first five minutes of the second half are going to be telling.

[noteggs]

The first five minutes of the second half are going to be telling.

Agree. Starting with how to attack their zone

[AviatorX]

Agree. Starting with how to attack their zone

Have a feeling we’re about to see a big half from Scruggs and Naji living in that high post.

[Muskie]

Karem and Kaiser are here cheering for X.


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[xu82]

Karem and Kaiser are here cheering for X.


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That’s awesome!!!

I wonder if “we’re going to be a tough, defensive minded team” was code for “we chan’t shoot for beans, so the offense if going to be ugly”?

[xudash]

Pass and charge into a waived off 3. Just unreal.

[kellernr]

Why is Scruggs suddenly afraid to shoot?

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[GoMuskies]

Why is Scruggs suddenly afraid to shoot?

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And why isn't Q afraid to shoot?

[mohr5150]

Why is Scruggs suddenly afraid to shoot?

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I wish Goodin would pick up that fear.

[kellernr]

And why isn't Q afraid to shoot?Q's shot is weird. One time down the court and the shot looks great and he drains it. Next time he shoots the mechanics look the same but the shot is nowhere near the hoop.

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[xu82]

Refs becoming the stars here.....

[xu82]

Q ALMOST hit something last time....

[AviatorX]

Ban the charge.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Q man. You’re 1-7. Stop shooting. You’re keeping DePaul in it.

[AviatorX]

Q man. You’re 1-7. Stop shooting. You’re keeping DePaul in it.

Also has 8 assists and is locking up one of the best scorers in the conference while playing every single minute...

[GoMuskies]

Also has 8 assists and is locking up one of the best scorers in the conference while playing every single minute...

Just stop shooting already.

[mohr5150]

Did anyone else see the ref start to call a block, look down and see it would have been on Strus, then change the call to a charge?

[GoMuskies]

We're pretty painful to watch. Not sure if anyone else has noticed. :)

[xudash]

Also has 8 assists and is locking up one of the best scorers in the conference while playing every single minute...

Fair point. I just wish the coaching staff would tell him: "look, you were one for seven, so let's get back into our offensive flow and stop taking long 3's."

[XUBison]

Q's shot is weird. One time down the court and the shot looks great and he drains it.
Next 6 times
he shoots the mechanics look the same but the shot is nowhere near the hoop.

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Fixed that for you...

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Also has 8 assists and is locking up one of the best scorers in the conference while playing every single minute...

Both can be true. If he takes 3 less bad threes he might have 10 assists and we’re up 6-8 instead of 2.

[XUBison]

Also has 8 assists and is locking up one of the best scorers in the conference while playing every single minute...

Yep, so if he’d stop shooting so many 3s, he’d be a heck of a player.

[xu82]

Did anyone else see the ref start to call a block, look down and see it would have been on Strus, then change the call to a charge?

Oh, absolutely!!!

[AviatorX]

Both can be true. If he takes 3 less bad threes he might have 10 assists and we’re up 6-8 instead of 2.

Not exactly surrounded by the Warriors out there...

[Xville]

Seriously..are we gonna lose to DePaul? Come on guys

[GoMuskies]

We're going to be lucky to win 3 Big East games. Good Lord we're awful.

[Olsingledigit]

We can’t finish.

[AviatorX]

For everyone who relesntlessly posted that they’re fine with whatever the results may be so long as they see effort and grit out of the team, your time to shine may be a few minutes away...

[xudash]

We can’t finish.

We shall see very shortly.

[mistabeecee41]

Had De-freaking Paul on the ropes with their best player on the bench for the under 8 minute war and we’re down 7 during this stretch.

This team ain’t winning 9 conference games

[AviatorX]

Leitao sat Strus wayyyyyy too long there. Not surprising considering he’s a horrendous coach.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Not exactly surrounded by the Warriors out there...

So your solution for Q is to just keep chucking and shoot 23% from three the rest of the year? He has 3 better options: drive and dish when help comes, drive and get fouled, or drive and kick for a different shooter, either Paul or welly.

[GoMuskies]

Did NOT see this run coming!

[AviatorX]

Btw, if you want to see someone actually shooting their team out of the game, Devin Gage is a good example. He sucks and has taken multiple long 2’s.

[GoMuskies]

Q takes another shot, kills momentum.

[AviatorX]

So your solution for Q is to just keep chucking and shoot 23% from three the rest of the year? He has 3 better options: drive and dish when help comes, drive and get fouled, or drive and kick for a different shooter, either Paul or welly.

I 100% believe Q should continue to have the green light on rhythm 3’s. He’s taken a few questionable ones today for sure. Those options don’t exist if you don’t trigger the open rhythm jumpers.

There’s middle ground between he needs to be a bit more picky and “never shoot again.” Q takes way too much heat on here - he’s clearly X’s Most important player IMO.

[mohr5150]

Nice little run put to an end by another dumb choice by Q

[Xville]

I know it is DePaul, but it's a road win in conference....and a comeback at that!

[paulxu]

Up 5, Goodin tries some goofy moves, loses ball...but Tyrique saves him.

[xu82]

WOW! What a big swing there! Thanks Tyrique!

[mohr5150]

I know it is DePaul, but it's a road win in conference....and a comeback at that!

It's not over yet.

[GoMuskies]

Yeah, this is going to be a helluva win after that long, putrid stretch of basketball in the second half. Impressive.

[Xville]

It's not over yet.

over... its depaul....I feel pretty darn confident.

[kellernr]

The benchings of Jones and Marshall seemed to have paid off.

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[X Factor]

Big time win on the road! Guys showed a lot of heart down the stretch. Great job!

[AviatorX]

The benchings of Jones and Marshall seemed to have paid off.

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Yep, great move by Trav suspending those guys to wake them up!

[XUBison]

I 100% believe Q should continue to have the green light on rhythm 3’s. He’s taken a few questionable ones today for sure. Those options don’t exist if you don’t trigger the open rhythm jumpers.

There’s middle ground between he needs to be a bit more picky and “never shoot again.” Q takes way too much heat on here - he’s clearly X’s Most important player IMO.

...says every other coach in the BE.

[xu82]

We can’t finish.

Reverse jinx! I see what you did there!

[XU 23]

19-4 run. Wow.

[Olsingledigit]

Gladly eating my words. We finished strong. Ty was a beast

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

A win is a win. Survive and advance every game from here on out. Q played well for the most part, he is X’s most important player, but he should not be taking as many dribbled-into threes as he did today. That’s just a fact.

[mohr5150]

TJ really came up huge at the end of that game, as well as Scruggs and Marshall. RW hit a big 3 toward the end as well.

[AviatorX]

A win is a win. Survive and advance every game from here on out. Q played well for the most part, he is X’s most important player, but he should not be taking as many dribbled-into threes as he did today. That’s just a fact.

Completely agree with all of this.

Depaul sucks, but loved the killer instinct down the stretch there. That was some life we haven’t seen from this team since Auburn. I think X can get Seton Hall at Cintas.

[XUBison]

I know it is DePaul, but it's a road win in conference....and a comeback at that!

Hey, at least we’ve now got a good chance to win 2 BE games this year.

[XUGRAD80]

Good win! The zone defense really made a difference. Stopped DePaul from running their offense and kept X from fouling them on drives to the basket. Also kept DePaul players on the outside which took away their offensive rebounding and followup shots. Welage hit some really big shots during the whole game and got some rebounds too. Jones really played well during the last five minutes.

[Jesuit4Life]

https://twitter.com/XavierGameday/status/1079121775550554112

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[Xville]

Hey, at least we’ve now got a good chance to win 2 BE games this year.

Ha...I said 6-8 before this game, and I still feel pretty confident in that. Talent level in the big east is not there this year. If it was like most years the be has been, I'd be worried about winning 3 or less.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

This might be the last road game X can win. I hope not. It was touch-and-go for a while and my heart was beating fast, but our last minute efforts saved the day. Thank you all for the win.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Completely agree with all of this.

Depaul sucks, but loved the killer instinct down the stretch there. That was some life we haven’t seen from this team since Auburn. I think X can get Seton Hall at Cintas.

This was a big win. While I don't expect many B.E. road wins for X this year, I love the way this team scratched, clawed and fought for the win. Not pretty but they showed heart---a characteristic some of us have been saying is missing from this team. When DePaul went up by four with about five minutes left, I expected the Muskies to fade. Fade they did not. Really good effort.

[XU-PA]

The Tyrique Wiggle.

The Twiggle??

[whopper]

If Depaul could make better decisions down the stretch they could have beat Northwestern, Boston College and Xavier. I (almost) feel bad as I kind of like their players and have never seen them win. A nice all around performance, Naji worries me but we need a scoring playmaker and he is it. 24 pos and 9 rebounds by grad transfers and Welage has a unique talent and also works hard to get open. Tyrique made some non dunks which to me is the litmus test and hit his foul shots. A pleasant surprise

[xudash]

Heart.

Focus.

Forty Minutes.

FINALLY!

[noteggs]

Good thing we didn’t play a drinking game on when the announcers said something stupid...I’d be drunk.

My favorite when the score was 70-63 with 40 seconds left. The commentator said with DePaul having the ball “DePaul doesn’t need a quick bucket because it’s only a two possession game”. So drink!

[bjf123]

Good thing we didn’t play a drinking game on when the announcers said something stupid...I’d be drunk.

My favorite when the score was 70-63 with 40 seconds left. The commentator said with DePaul having the ball “DePaul doesn’t need a quick bucket because it’s only a two possession game”. So drink!

Guessing he wasn’t a math major.


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[JTG]

Finally a game where we made the other teams best weapon totally invisible. And put our game in overdrive in the last 5 minutes.

[username]

.

[JTG]

Completely agree with all of this.

Depaul sucks, but loved the killer instinct down the stretch there. That was some life we haven’t seen from this team since Auburn. I think X can get Seton Hall at Cintas.
Their front line is actually pretty good, until they all got in foul trouble. Totally shutting down Struss was fantastic. He's the type of guy that usually kills X.

[XUBob]

Great effort today, I think that this is going to be the most important aspect of this team going forward. We all agree the roster is a bit flawed and this is going to be a one game at a time season. If they learn to play together and play consistently hard for fourty minutes they have enough talent to compete most every night. Where that will lead record wise I have no idea. If this group gains confidence who knows what will happen. Let’s hope today was step one.

[AviatorX]

Chris Mack getting baptized by Cal (in a hideous suit jacket) and Butler getting absolutely destroyed at the half at Florida. Not a bad Saturday.

[Xville]

It's a pretty big if because I think they are the third best team in the conference, but if x can somehow find a way to beat Seton Hall at home, they could very legitimately be 4-1 to begin conference play. Wednesday would be a giant boost for this team if they can somehow pull it off.

[Xville]

Chris Mack getting baptized by Cal (in a hideous suit jacket) and Butler getting absolutely destroyed at the half at Florida. Not a bad Saturday.

Yeah...thought it was hilarious when ul fans tried to tell me they were going to beat uk this year. 1.) Uk has a ton more talent and 2.) Say what you want about cal's ability to x and o but he gets his guys to play by mid season almost every year and gets 5 stars to buy in to playing d. Mack cant out coach even cal and hes going to get eaten alive against the acc coaches.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If it werent for Kennedy's 4 fouls he could have joined Harden in the all Zero's box score. (Minues mins of course)

[D-West & PO-Z]

A win is a win. Survive and advance every game from here on out. Q played well for the most part, he is X’s most important player, but he should not be taking as many dribbled-into threes as he did today. That’s just a fact.

I'm in the he shouldnt shoot as much as he does but not that he should completely stop shooting camp. He needs to shoot but just not quite that many. He had 8 assists and 2 turnovers today which was big.

[D-West & PO-Z]

TJ really came up huge at the end of that game, as well as Scruggs and Marshall. RW hit a big 3 toward the end as well.

Marshall put the team on his back when we were down 6 and needed someone to. To me that was a huge thing to see that hopefully will translate into a great conference season for Naji.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Their front line is actually pretty good, until they all got in foul trouble. Totally shutting down Struss was fantastic. He's the type of guy that usually kills X.

Yeah I was shocked we shut him down so well. He also seemed a little off, I think they said he missed a game recently due to knee injury?

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I'm in the he shouldnt shoot as much as he does but not that he should completely stop shooting camp. He needs to shoot but just not quite that many. He had 8 assists and 2 turnovers today which was big.

I'm in that camp too. Q is clearly our most important player and he needs to be on the floor. He played great defense today. Still, I can't help but think if he had a couple of small rest breaks each half, he might have the energy to take the ball to the rack. He is most effective in that role---he can shoot, dish or get fouled. Any of those options beats him jacking a three. His mechanics don't look good. His mechanics have never looked good. Q needs to play to his strengths. X isn't going to be a good three point shooting team. players like Welage, Scruggs or Marshall (Hardin if gets in) all are better outside alternatives.

I cannot understand why Q doesn't see this. And, I cannot understand why Steele or his teammates don't make the same point.

[X Factor]

I thought Goodin really only took two bad three's. His other attempts were good shots that DePaul was giving him, he just didn't knock them down.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

I thought Goodin really only took two bad three's. His other attempts were good shots that DePaul was giving him, he just didn't knock them down.

I agree. DePaul was giving Q those shots and there is a good reason for them to do so---He can't make them. I'd give him a three point shot every time down. I'd beg to take that shot every time down. Just because the shot is there does not mean Q is the guy to take it. that is my point.

[AviatorX]

I agree. DePaul was giving Q those shots and there is a good reason for them to do so---He can't make them. I'd give him a three point shot every time down. I'd beg to take that shot every time down. Just because the shot is there does not mean Q is the guy to take it. that is my point.

Yes, but the point is, Q needs to take those rhythm 3's, especially on kick outs. Open looks for other guys aren't going to just magically appear if Q passes up what are objectively good looks from 3 - it's circular to think he can just pass these up and that will result in a good shot for someone else. If you think the lane is clogged now, imagine if Q stops shooting rhythm 3's.

Q definitely took some bad ones today - ironically, his worst shot by far was when he dribbled into a long 2.

[XUGRAD80]

I’m in the camp that Q sometimes takes to many 3 pointers...like in the 1st half today. He didn’t take as many in the 2nd half. If it’s falling, keep shooting. If it’s not you’ve got to accept that and pass more or drive more.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Yes, but the point is, Q needs to take those rhythm 3's, especially on kick outs. Open looks for other guys aren't going to just magically appear if Q passes up what are objectively good looks from 3 - it's circular to think he can just pass these up and that will result in a good shot for someone else. If you think the lane is clogged now, imagine if Q stops shooting rhythm 3's.

Q definitely took some bad ones today - ironically, his worst shot by far was when he dribbled into a long 2.

I'm not saying he should never shoot a three. He has to shoot a few (and hopefully make some) or the defense is just going to back down into the paint. All I'm saying is that he needs to be disciplined. And, practice his jump shot. And, play to his strengths. He has lots of strengths and he played a good game today (with great defense) even with the bad threes.

[XUBison]

Yes, but the point is, Q needs to take those rhythm 3's, especially on kick outs. Open looks for other guys aren't going to just magically appear if Q passes up what are objectively good looks from 3 - it's circular to think he can just pass these up and that will result in a good shot for someone else. If you think the lane is clogged now, imagine if Q stops shooting rhythm 3's.

Q definitely took some bad ones today - ironically, his worst shot by far was when he dribbled into a long 2.

You know, it wasn’t long ago that way fewer 3-pointers were shot during games, especially by players who couldn‘t make them. According to your premise, this must have caused lanes more clogged than I used to get after eating a basket of cheese-sticks at Dana’s. Yet miraculously, teams still scored points. Maybe Steele needs to go watch film of old-timey basketball, say prior to... 5 years ago?

[xukeith]

On offense X is playing 3 vs 5 with Kyle Castlin. He plays good D but has not contributed a thing offensively.

oh well. It is our team.

[AviatorX]

You know, it wasn’t long ago that way fewer 3-pointers were shot during games, especially by players who couldn‘t make them. According to your premise, this must have caused lanes more clogged than I used to get after eating a basket of cheese-sticks at Dana’s. Yet miraculously, teams still scored points. Maybe Steele needs to go watch film of old-timey basketball, say prior to... 5 years ago?

Hmm...almost makes you wonder if there's a reason every team in the entire sport has adapted in one way or another to spacing the floor with shooting and recognizing the value of the 3-point shot over low efficiency offensive plays like post-ups?

Take a look at the D1 teams who take the fewest 3's - not exactly elite company for the most part.

I'm just saying Xavier's starting PG should continue to shoot rhythm 3's that are in the flow of the offense - doesn't seem too crazy to me.

[XUFan09]

You know, it wasn’t long ago that way fewer 3-pointers were shot during games, especially by players who couldn‘t make them. According to your premise, this must have caused lanes more clogged than I used to get after eating a basket of cheese-sticks at Dana’s. Yet miraculously, teams still scored points. Maybe Steele needs to go watch film of old-timey basketball, say prior to... 5 years ago?

Five years ago when teams still shot a lot of threes and it was noteworthy for Xavier that Semaj Christon didn't have enough shooters around him and guys could play off him? Or decades ago when teams simply scored at a lower rate?

Not to mention that a better understanding today of how efficient different shots are has led to better defense against teams that are lacking from three.

[xukeith]

If it werent for Kennedy's 4 fouls he could have joined Harden in the all Zero's box score. (Minues mins of course)

Castlin goose egged except missed attempts.

[whopper]

Castlin is a nice person to stabilize the team, gets a rebound, blocked a shot..I like him at guard with Scruggs at the 2 and I think he plays well with Welage and Hankins(they seem to be somewhat bonded...maybe on same practice team). All the transfers have done exactly what we have asked.

[XUFan09]

Castlin is a nice person to stabilize the team, gets a rebound, blocked a shot..I like him at guard with Scruggs at the 2 and I think he plays well with Welage and Hankins(they seem to be somewhat bonded...maybe on same practice team). All the transfers have done exactly what we have asked.Yep. I really like Castlin for making the right play at the right time for the team but not trying to take over. He is the definition of a good glue guy.

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[XUFan09]

I thought Goodin really only took two bad three's. His other attempts were good shots that DePaul was giving him, he just didn't knock them down.Agreed. Overall I think Goodin is a solid shooter on in-rhythm threes and the percentages will balance out in the end. I don't mind four or five of his attempts. Two or three of them were low-percentage shots that were unlikely to go in.

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[paulxu]

Agreed. Overall I think Goodin is a solid shooter on in-rhythm threes and the percentages will balance out in the end. I don't mind four or five of his attempts. Two or three of them were low-percentage shots that were unlikely to go in.

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I'm going to disagree. He's shooting 28%. If it "balances out" to last year (30%) or the year before (25%), we're in trouble.
The 1-7 or 1-8 games are not helping. Much better to drive/score/draw foul...or ideally draw a wing defender into the paint and kick it out to Welage or Scruggs.

[XUBison]

Hmm...almost makes you wonder if there's a reason every team in the entire sport has adapted in one way or another to spacing the floor with shooting and recognizing the value of the 3-point shot over low efficiency offensive plays like post-ups?

Take a look at the D1 teams who take the fewest 3's - not exactly elite company for the most part.

I'm just saying Xavier's starting PG should continue to shoot rhythm 3's that are in the flow of the offense - doesn't seem too crazy to me.

Yes, prior to the revolution of spacing and saber metrics, who could have ever imagined that Xavier and DePaul would play to an eye-popping score like 73-64?

I agree that any starting PG needs to at least take the occasional 3 to keep the defense honest. But the desired efficiency of saber metrics is only accomplished by players who can function in that capacity. You have to coach and play to your strengths, and 3-point shooting isn’t ours. Somehow we have to maximize the output of our strengths and force opponents to adapt to what we do best. If you don’t do something as well as your opponent(s), The last thing you do is try to emulate what they do better than you, or you will lose.

[Xuperman]

Get used to it. Don't think we'll be favored against any BE team this season.

The negativity is out of hand people....can we steer clear of obvious nonsense please.
There are other Big East teams we can beat!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083160

[XUFan09]

Yes, prior to the revolution of spacing and saber metrics, who could have ever imagined that Xavier and DePaul would play to an eye-popping score like 73-64?

I agree that any starting PG needs to at least take the occasional 3 to keep the defense honest. But the desired efficiency of saber metrics is only accomplished by players who can function in that capacity. You have to coach and play to your strengths, and 3-point shooting isn’t ours. Somehow we have to maximize the output of our strengths and force opponents to adapt to what we do best. If you don’t do something as well as your opponent(s), The last thing you do is try to emulate what they do better than you, or you will lose.Half of D1 attempts threes at a higher rate than Xavier and half of D1 makes threes at a higher rate than Xavier. Those match up nicely. It sounds like the offense may be adjusted for the personnel.

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[XUGRAD80]

The negativity is out of hand people....can we stay clear of obvious nonsense please.
There are other Big East teams we can beat!

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083160

Yes, the fact is that the BE as a whole is just not that good this year. Xavier is certainly not what they were last year, but then it appears that no other BE tieam is either. I’m certainly not overconfident that X will either win the majority of its remaining games or the league championship, but I am confident that they will win some games.

[XUFan09]

I'm going to disagree. He's shooting 28%. If it "balances out" to last year (30%) or the year before (25%), we're in trouble.
The 1-7 or 1-8 games are not helping. Much better to drive/score/draw foul...or ideally draw a wing defender into the paint and kick it out to Welage or Scruggs.

I see your point, but remember, Goodin has shot a lot of bad threes this year (and some bailout shots at the end of the shot clock). He had a couple in this game and he had quite a few in the first few games of the season before he settled down. Despite that, he's still shooting 27.0% overall on the season, which means he's easily shooting in the 30s on the open in-rhythm shots that we're talking about.

Concerning previous seasons, he simply wasn't a good shooter as a freshman. He wasn't abysmal but he was moderately poor. But, he spent much of that off-season working on his shot mechanics while he was out with a foot injury. It seems like it took him some time to consistently adopt the new mechanics at the beginning of the sophomore season because he didn't get a lot of off-season reps with it with live ball threes. That seems to account for his horrid shooting in the non-conference slate last year; he frequently seemed to be "in between" old and new mechanics, so unsurprisingly, he missed a lot. By about the middle of last year, things seemed to finally click and he was consistently shooting with the new mechanics. He went on to shoot 39.5% in the conference slate.

Now, I don't think Goodin's "true shooting percentage" is nearly 40% but on good shots, I also don't think it's under 30%. I am pretty confident that we are going to see a shooting percentage in the mid-30s for the conference slate this season.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

This was an L on my board. We will have Ws that turn into Ls but who cares. I am excited and ready for the Hall at home.

This is how this team needs to win games. We aren’t going to boat race teams. We don’t shoot it week enough. This team will grind out wins with defense and playing team offense.


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[noteggs]

The last five minutes was fun to watch! Arguably the best 5 we’ve played this year. Hopefully we can build off this since that’s the team we need to be this year! Nothing like having a positive blue print on how to be successful going forward. Very significant for film.

[bobbiemcgee]

Naji looked like the Naji we all hoped he would be.

[sirthought]

Baby steps. They did a lot of good stuff this game.

Lots of dumb things too. And I feel like the Depaul front court had mostly unfair fouls called against them, but it happens. XU took advantage like anyone should.

Great to see Marshall decide to finally take control, drive the lane and either close out or take the foul. Shades of Tu (attitude wise). Too much of the game we see them not looking to drive or go inside, yet they turn the tide of success when they do.

Happy for the win!




And anyone arguing Goodin should shoot threes needs their eyes checked. It's not his shot and he can make an effort to score in so many more ways. Let's get his energy on doing something with a better chance. The kid needs confidence and I'd hate to see him force up 3s for a stupid 30% rate.

[XUGRAD80]

Defense has certainly improved since the beginning of the season...

November...7 games and averaged 75.3 points allowed per game. (4-3 record)
December...7 games and averaged 64.7 points allowed per game. (5-2 record)

But I think that the competition will be overall better in January, so it’ll be interesting to see if they can continue to improve. I think that they will need to continue to get better in order to keep the average at 65 or lower. I also think that if they can do that they will have a chance to win most games.

[XUFan09]

Defense has certainly improved since the beginning of the season...

November...7 games and averaged 75.3 points allowed per game. (4-3 record)
December...7 games and averaged 64.7 points allowed per game. (5-2 record)

But I think that the competition will be overall better in January, so it’ll be interesting to see if they can continue to improve. I think that they will need to continue to get better in order to keep the average at 65 or lower. I also think that if they can do that they will have a chance to win most games.

Yep. After rising to (IIRC) #157 in Kenpom adjusted defensive efficiency, X has fallen back down to #106. Obviously, #106 as an average still sucks. But considering where they were just a few games ago, they have clearly been performing well above that average more recently. Here's the December game-by-game breakdown, with the note that 1.03 points per possession (PPP) is the D1 average:

- DePaul scored only 0.97 PPP on their home court. Also, that's when the refs got extremely whistle-happy in the second half, leading to DePaul being in the bonus really early.
- Detroit scored only 0.82 PPP on the road. They are really bad, but still, that's abysmal for them.
- Mizzou scored 1.04 PPP at home. The defense was inconsistent in this game and frankly the man-to-man performed much better than the zone that we saw for the majority. Still, X got boatraced because they couldn't score themselves; they weren't very good on the defensive end but did enough to have been competitive if they could have just put the ball in the basket.
- Eastern Kentucky scored 0.90 PPP on the road. Their offense is the worst X has seen this year, but still, while cruising and casually going into a basket-trading spree for a five-minute stretch in the second half with the game basically in hand, statistically keeping a team this far below the D1 average is pretty good.
- Cincinnati scored only 1.05 PPP at home. Similar story to the Mizzou game where the offense was at fault for losing by double digits, but this time, the defense did its job against a borderline top 50 offense.
- Ohio scored only 0.90 PPP on the road. Not much to say about this other than Ohio's offense is almost as bad as Eastern Kentucky's.
- Oakland scored 1.00 PPP on the road. This is actually a good defensive performance, because it's against a borderline top 50 offense. Oakland is a bad team because its defense is competing for absolute worst in D1.

So in general, X has locked down on mid-major and low-major offenses while still doing well against most teams with offensive talent (DePaul, Cincinnati, Oakland). The Mizzou game is probably the worst defensive performance of December, but still, it wasn't awful.

[XUFan09]

And anyone arguing Goodin should shoot threes needs their eyes checked. It's not his shot and he can make an effort to score in so many more ways. Let's get his energy on doing something with a better chance. The kid needs confidence and I'd hate to see him force up 3s for a stupid 30% rate.

Yeah, just stop shooting threes, Goodin. You'll still be able to score in other ways when the defense completely sags off you on the perimeter. No problem.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Yeah, just stop shooting threes, Goodin. You'll still be able to score in other ways when the defense completely sags off you on the perimeter. No problem.

The DePaul defense was sagging off Q last night. The reason he had open looks is that DePaul wanted him to take those shots. Until Q establishes that he can make that shot, defenses will continue to sag. He needs to show he can make the three and therefore he must continue to take those shots when defenses dare him. But, not at the rate he took them in the first half last night. I argue that Q taking the ball into the paint, dishing off, shooting and possibly getting fouled (he was money at the line last year) or even taking a well guarded short jumper or floater are all better options at this point.

Q's three point shooting, as I recall, improved last year over his freshman year (when it was abysmal). I'm wondering if his settling for the three is related, in some way, to shoulder issues. Perhaps physical contact in the paint is painful. I don't know. But, I fail to see how his three point shooting, thus far in the season, advances this offense.

[XUFan09]

The DePaul defense was sagging off Q last night. The reason he had open looks is that DePaul wanted him to take those shots. Until Q establishes that he can make that shot, defenses will continue to sag. He needs to show he can make the three and therefore he must continue to take those shots when defenses dare him. But, not at the rate he took them in the first half last night. I argue that Q taking the ball into the paint, dishing off, shooting and possibly getting fouled (he was money at the line last year) or even taking a well guarded short jumper or floater are all better options at this point.

Q's three point shooting, as I recall, improved last year over his freshman year (when it was abysmal). I'm wondering if his settling for the three is related, in some way, to shoulder issues. Perhaps physical contact in the paint is painful. I don't know. But, I fail to see how his three point shooting, thus far in the season, advances this offense.

They are sagging off now for a late contest. If he stops shooting even when those shots are available, the defense will dig in even more and not bother to contest. People advocating for Q to continue shooting have been consistent in saying he takes too many bad threes for whatever reason, but there's nothing wrong with the open in-rhythm shots. I already said it before, but if he's shooting 27% while acting like Bluiett from behind the three point line, he is probably shooting a decent percentage on the good shots for which we are advocating. And those are the shots efficient enough to advance the offense.

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[Masterofreality]

Yeah, just stop shooting threes, Goodin. You'll still be able to score in other ways when the defense completely sags off you on the perimeter. No problem.

Welp. It was a win, but I'm very bothered still by a number of things...directly attributed to coaching. Here's reality. Xavier took 15 3's in the first half. There were only 5, that's FIVE TOTAL post touches. 4 of those post touches led to scoring 9 points. There were ZERO touches in the post after 10:53 of the first half all the way to 18:03 of the second half - Almost THIRTEEN MINUTES of none-when Hankins traveled. This is with DePaul's non-starting center in the game because Xavier's bigs got the starter out quick. How can't the staff see that and adjust?
For the whole game, Xavier took 26 threes. Welage was 5-8. That means that the rest were 5-18- 28%. This while Xavier's bigs can't get a post touch.
WHAT????
Also. when DePaul went zone, there was no Xavier player flashing to the middle to receive a pass and make the defense collapse. That is basic offensive basketball. DePaul was playing a 2-3 that left the foul line open. Where was the flash?
Somebody please question Travis Steele on where the post entry passes are...while substandard 3 point shooters are jacking shots? At least a post touch could lead to a pass back out to a guy to create a better look. The schematics of this and the staff's inability to recognize/emphasize is bothering me......A Helluva LOT!!

[xukeith]

Welp. It was a win, but I'm very bothered still by a number of things...directly attributed to coaching. Here's reality. Xavier took 15 3's in the first half. There were only 5, that's FIVE TOTAL post touches. 4 of those post touches led to scoring 9 points. There were ZERO touches in the post after 10:53 of the first half all the way to 18:03 of the second half - Almost THIRTEEN MINUTES of none-when Hankins traveled. This is with DePaul's non-starting center in the game because Xavier's bigs got the starter out quick. How can't the staff see that and adjust?
For the whole game, Xavier took 26 threes. Welage was 5-8. That means that the rest were 5-18- 28%. This while Xavier's bigs can't get a post touch.
WHAT????
Also. when DePaul went zone, there was no Xavier player flashing to the middle to receive a pass and make the defense collapse. That is basic offensive basketball. DePaul was playing a 2-3 that left the foul line open. Where was the flash?
Somebody please question Travis Steele on where the post entry passes are...while substandard 3 point shooters are jacking shots? At least a post touch could lead to a pass back out to a guy to create a better look. The schematics of this and the staff's inability to recognize/emphasize is bothering me......A Helluva LOT!!
Agree. Good points

[GoMuskies]

So DePaul struggles a bit in attracting a crowd. As I was walking to the arena 20 minutes before tipoff I bought the cheapest ticket available on StubHub without really even looking at the location. Here was my view. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190101/38a6f7efcfec1258d97d312abbaf6752.jpg

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[whopper]

that is why it is important for Xavier to stay relevant..this is a valuable franchise. After watching St Johns v Seton Hall last night, and Providence v Creighton today, Villanova v Kansas I am aware that it will be a tough year and any win will be by the skin of our teeth. The blown call at the end of the St John game was legendary. You dance with who brung you so lets go X. Expectations are not high but I hope will be exceeded

[Juice]

So DePaul struggles a bit in attracting a crowd. As I was walking to the arena 20 minutes before tipoff I bought the cheapest ticket available on StubHub without really even looking at the location. Here was my view. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190101/38a6f7efcfec1258d97d312abbaf6752.jpg

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Taxpayers put up 82.5 million dollars for that place...for a private university...unbelievable.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/taxpayer-funded-wintrust-arena-falls-short-of-attendance-projections/

[Snipe]

he simply wasn't a good shooter as a freshman. He wasn't abysmal but he was moderately poor. But, he spent much of that off-season working on his shot mechanics while he was out with a foot injury. It seems like it took him some time to consistently adopt the new mechanics at the beginning of the sophomore season because he didn't get a lot of off-season reps with it with live ball threes. That seems to account for his horrid shooting in the non-conference slate last year; he frequently seemed to be "in between" old and new mechanics, so unsurprisingly, he missed a lot. By about the middle of last year, things seemed to finally click and he was consistently shooting with the new mechanics. He went on to shoot 39.5% in the conference slate.

Now, I don't think Goodin's "true shooting percentage" is nearly 40% but on good shots, I also don't think it's under 30%. I am pretty confident that we are going to see a shooting percentage in the mid-30s for the conference slate this season.


Shooting 39.5% for the Big East Conference as a Soph was huge. I don't understand why you don't think his (with your quotes) "true shooting percentage" is nearly 40%. Well Big East play is 18 games plus tournament, and 39.5% is 40% when you round it up. Our kids are just that, they are kids. This is his first year as an upper classman, and he has a lot on his plate. He played 40 minutes last game, and we needed every one of them. He has had an injury early on that has affected this teams development in my opinion. He may be our most critical asset as point guard.

Playing a full Big East Schedule and shooting 40% from 3 as a Soph is a big deal. Probably enough to give the coach confidence to tell him to keep shooting. Now I get the point about rhythm threes. We don't get enough rhythm threes because we have been lacking at the whole playing in rhythm thing. But this team has not played that many games together. We have a lot of new pieces and a lot of moving parts. Our defense is suddenly coming together. Our offense will not be far behind. I see our rhythm coming together.

At times I have seen Naji and Q trying to do too much for sure early on in this season. I think that they will learn once they can depend on other players that they don't have to force it and let it come in the flow. Q is shooting 27% right now, and people hate it for sure. He is a much better shooter than that and will prove that as this team develops. I have no problem with Q shooting the ball.

[Snipe]

Defense has certainly improved since the beginning of the season...

November...7 games and averaged 75.3 points allowed per game. (4-3 record)
December...7 games and averaged 64.7 points allowed per game. (5-2 record)

But I think that the competition will be overall better in January, so it’ll be interesting to see if they can continue to improve. I think that they will need to continue to get better in order to keep the average at 65 or lower. I also think that if they can do that they will have a chance to win most games.

I think that our defense against Depaul was very good. This team is getting better.

[Snipe]

Welp. It was a win, but I'm very bothered still by a number of things...directly attributed to coaching. Here's reality. Xavier took 15 3's in the first half. There were only 5, that's FIVE TOTAL post touches. 4 of those post touches led to scoring 9 points. There were ZERO touches in the post after 10:53 of the first half all the way to 18:03 of the second half - Almost THIRTEEN MINUTES of none-when Hankins traveled. This is with DePaul's non-starting center in the game because Xavier's bigs got the starter out quick. How can't the staff see that and adjust?
For the whole game, Xavier took 26 threes. Welage was 5-8. That means that the rest were 5-18- 28%. This while Xavier's bigs can't get a post touch.
WHAT????
Also. when DePaul went zone, there was no Xavier player flashing to the middle to receive a pass and make the defense collapse. That is basic offensive basketball. DePaul was playing a 2-3 that left the foul line open. Where was the flash?
Somebody please question Travis Steele on where the post entry passes are...while substandard 3 point shooters are jacking shots? At least a post touch could lead to a pass back out to a guy to create a better look. The schematics of this and the staff's inability to recognize/emphasize is bothering me......A Helluva LOT!!


Our center position is incredibly efficient. It is an absolute strength. The Xavier Big Man Factory strikes again.

Watching our offense play against DePaul, you would have no idea that Zach Hankins hits nearly 3 out of every 4 attempts at the hoop, or that Tyrique hits 66%. We have under-used assets in play, and it blows my mind. The kids will get that at some point and begin to exploit it, and it will make everything better.

I still want to have a lineup that has both Hankins and Tyrique, but Tyrique likes to make physical contact with the other team so often that we don't yet have the possibility of them playing together. I think Hankins could give us 30 minutes a game and ration his contact. I don't have the same faith that Tyrique could ration his contact. He is a human heat seeking missile at times.

I love our big men. We are going to get better at feeding them. We have to do that to be successful. Our effort so far in doing this is not enough.

[Masterofreality]

Taxpayers put up 82.5 million dollars for that place...for a private university...unbelievable.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/taxpayer-funded-wintrust-arena-falls-short-of-attendance-projections/

And that’s not counting the land value. The estimated construction cost of $165 million is questionable because there were some accounting tricks used. The parking garage isn’t included, The Land isn’t included and there were overages. I heard DePaul’s actual contribution went over $100 million. Makes the original Cintas at $44 million a bargain. Thank you Top Jimmy & Dr. Bill.

[GoMuskies]

Anybody else who went to the game on Saturday not really know where the arena was beforehand? I'm driving past Comiskey Park and I see on my GPS that I'm only 1.5 miles from the arena. Made me just a touch nervous. There's a neighborhood that's changed in the last 20 years!