Game Thread: Xavier v. University of Cincinnati (December 8, 2018) Crosstown Shootout

[Muskie]

2311

Xavier Musketeers (6-3, 0-0) vs. Cincinnati Bearcats (8-1, 0-0)

Time: 2:00 p.m.

Cintas Center | Cincinnati, Ohio

TV: ESPN 2

Radio: 55 KRC Listen Live (https://www.iheart.com/live/55krc-1709/)
Sirrius XM 380

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)
(http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)
GoXavier Preview (https://goxavier.com/news/2018/12/6/mens-basketball-the-annual-skyline-chili-crosstown-shootout-is-saturday-at-uc.aspx)

The Best Player's of the "Shoe" Era (The Athletic) (https://theathletic.com/695658/2018/12/06/who-are-the-crosstown-shootouts-top-stars-of-the-shoe-era/)

*check back for more links and articles

[atljar]

#ZipEmUp

[Lloyd Braun]

Any good reason this is played at 2pm and broadcasted on ESPN2?

I think we match up well with them, and would like to see a step up in toughness from our wings today and going forward. ZipEmUp

[paulxu]

I don't think they break down ESPN2 by regions for broadcast.
It's 10 minutes to game time, and the West Va game still has 10 game minutes left.
We're going to start late or in game.
Meanwhile, Huggy Bear (still large) has a new deal...a swivel stool on the sidelines instead of the normal chair.

[xu82]

Wait, where is then game being played? It says Cintas above, but ESPN says Fifth Third. And of course the game before is running late.....

[kellernr]

Says it's on espn news but I'm seeing boxing

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[atljar]

ESPN news start... But only see kickboxing

[xu2002]

Wait, where is then game being played? It says Cintas above, but ESPN says Fifth Third. And of course the game before is running late.....

Game at fifth third. Will start on ESPN news.

[chico]

Fuck Bob Huggins. Game is streaming on ESPN3

[kellernr]

Look rattled out there. 2 traveling calls so far and Q and Castlin chucking up ugly 3s.

Jones got destroyed trying to dunk.

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[xu82]

Game at fifth third. Will start on ESPN news.

Thanks. I’ve got hundreds, if not thousands of channels, but not that..... I see we were up 5-0, so if me not watching will bring home a win, I’ll take one ofr the team!

[paulxu]

This will be a tough slog. Their crowd is excited to finally seeing a big time team in their building.

[Jesuit4Life]

Streaming on the ESPN app too if you have a TV login

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[xu82]

WVU announcer just alerted us that EggZavier will be coming up next. ESPN SUCKS!

[kellernr]

Looking better out of the last timeout. Q and Naji drill big 3s.

Trying to figure out why Castlin is on Scott. Scott can shoot right over him. Need someone taller on scott

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[RoseyMuskie]

Love the shots X is forcing.

[xu82]

Naji does NOT have the type of handle he THINKS he has.

[noteggs]

Note to self download ESPN app before game WTF

[GoMuskies]

Jesus, we've sucked the last few minutes.

[GoMuskies]

I hate that our roster is such that Kyle Castlin is one of our starters.

[Lloyd Braun]

I like Castlin’s energy more this game... butttt dude pass the ball when not open.

[paulxu]

Almost 6 minute scoring drought. Some good D, but you gotta score.

[noteggs]

Scruggs has big old target on his back with refs. Second was legit tho

[kellernr]

Jesus, we've sucked the last few minutes.We played better with hankins in. Jones is giving us nothing out there. Naji has to stop trying to drive through 2 defenders. His dribble is loose and too far from his body. Its a turnover almost everytime he drives

Scruggs did his typical thing and picked up a stupid 2nd foul. Luckily uc is not a good shooting team or else e would be getting blown out.

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[GoMuskies]

Welcome to our future in the Big East. We're going to have a rough time of it.

[X Factor]

Brick after brick.

Great defensive awareness guys.

[kellernr]

WTF is Kennedy doing out there? Cumberland drains a 3 on him then come right back down and does it again. Kennedy was 15ft from him. Not sure how you lose thier best shooter before you realize your on the wrong side of the court.

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[X Factor]

At least give Harden a few minutes. Kennedy is lost.

[kellernr]

Put welage back out there and play some zone D. Marshall can hit the 3 but his shot is soooooo ugly.

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[GoMuskies]

These announcers are fucking drama queens.

[GoMuskies]

We can't shoot, and they're a lot stronger than us. Not a good combo.

[X Factor]

We are not good at putting the ball in the basket from 3 point range. Brutal!!!

We've had a lot of good looks.

[kellernr]

All season long this team chucks up 3s without thinking. Today they have passed up so many wide open looks from 3 shot faking with no one around.

Kennedy shouldn't be on the court at all. We need welages shooting and we can hide him on D with the zone. What's the point of bringing this kid in as a 3pt specialist if you are going to leave him on the bench?



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[paulxu]

Missing 10 of 11 won't ever cut it.
Also, we're 4 assists and 7 TO's.
They're 10 assists and 2 TO's.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Going to have to find ways to get Paul and Welage on the floor much more in the second half to get the offense going.

Unrelated note: is Elias still sick?

[X Factor]

Goodin and Marshall are 3-11.

Scruggs is going to have to get going in the 2nd half.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Going to have to find ways to get Paul and Welage on the floor much more in the second half to get the offense going.

Unrelated note: is Elias still sick?

[noteggs]

Going to have to find ways to get Paul and Welage on the floor much more in the second half to get the offense going.

Unrelated note: is Elias still sick?

On your note: he’s been practicing so I don’t think so

[X Factor]

3rd grade level travel by Scruggs...c'mon!

[GoMuskies]

Physically we're just overmatched and acting like it. Intimidated so far.

[X Factor]

I can't wait to until Steele recruits some shooters.

[X Factor]

Unbelievable....what are we doing????

[GoMuskies]

Welage makes the most physical play of the game for Xavier. Go figure.

[X Factor]

Our defense is clueless. Not ONE guy has any awareness of what is going on.

[noteggs]

Doesn’t look your day when Cumberland hits those shots

[paulxu]

We just seem to be confused and in a daze. Very strange after how together we played last game.
Don't mind losing to a team that plays better than we do...if we are playing hard. Doesn't appear that way right now.
Got to get some stops and start making something.

Also, Mick is a real dick.

[GoMuskies]

Wasn't Driessen a first baseman?

[kellernr]

Goodin and Marshall are 3-11.

Scruggs is going to have to get going in the 2nd half.Marshall is not as good as everyone thinks he is. He doesnt move for the ball. Just kind of floats around the top of the jet or hides in the corner. He needs to get the bill low and back his guy down. He's not a good 3pt shooter but thinks he is. Goodin is the same way.

Scruggs is probably our best player but he cant stop getting in foul trouble every game. Just let jenifer shoot it and go straight up. He can only hit if he's open so put a hand up and wait for the rebound

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[GoMuskies]

Welage has to sit.

[X Factor]

Naji doesn't play hard most of the time.

[GoMuskies]

Welage has to sit.

Out at the three point line and shoot more!

[X Factor]

Naji hasn't done anything today!

[DexterBailey84]

does anyone here trust Naji with the ball in his hands? I sure as hell don't.

overrated might be an appropriate term.

[GoMuskies]

Naji is probably doing something well. Just not sure what it could possibly be.

[paulxu]

Guess Jones' head is bothering him. Not a factor.

[kellernr]

Naji doesn't play hard most of the time.I agree. Too many people hyped him as a 1st team all big east player this year. He wouldn't even make the honorable mention list the way he has played this year so far.

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[X Factor]

does anyone here trust Naji with the ball in his hands? I sure as hell don't.

overrated might be an appropriate term.

He dribbles like he's 7'5

[noteggs]

Wasn't Driessen a first baseman?

Yes

[letskeepitreal]

Offense is looking awful stagnant

[XU 87]

Marshall is not as good as everyone thinks he is. He doesnt move for the ball. Just kind of floats around the top of the jet or hides in the corner. He needs to get the bill low and back his guy down. He's not a good 3pt shooter but thinks he is. Goodin is the same way.

Scruggs is probably our best player but he cant stop getting in foul trouble every game. Just let jenifer shoot it and go straight up. He can only hit if he's open so put a hand up and wait for the rebound

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Could you tell us one more time that you think Naji is not that good? Someone on the board might have missed all of your other posts saying this.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Hankins needs to be in and we need to leave the zone. Understand protecting Paul but it’s getting to danger zone.

[kellernr]

I dont want to throw in the towel on Steele yet because I want to see how next years team does but we dont run any offensive sets. Just run the weave up top and either chuck a 3 or let Marshall and goodin drive inton3 guys and get thier shot blocked.



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[X Factor]

This game's over.

[GoMuskies]

We're getting blown out. Completely overmatched, and UC is not that good.

[GoMuskies]

I dont want to throw in the towel on Steele yet because I want to see how next years team does but we dont run any offensive sets. Just run the weave up top and either chuck a 3 or let Marshall and goodin drive inton3 guys and get thier shot blocked.



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The roster is bad, and that's not completely his fault.

[X Factor]

I dont want to throw in the towel on Steele yet because I want to see how next years team does but we dont run any offensive sets. Just run the weave up top and either chuck a 3 or let Marshall and goodin drive inton3 guys and get thier shot blocked.



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We've had a lot of good looks, but we don't have any shooters.

[bjf123]

Can’t buy a basket


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[X Factor]

Why is Naji even on the court?

Steele should send him a message.

[bjf123]

We're getting blown out. Completely overmatched, and UC is not that good.

Out hustled. Out muscled. Out coached. We’re just not a good team.


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[GoMuskies]

We can still rally for the backdoor cover guys!

[stammina0721]

I have not posted much because my opinion is not popular but this is the reality. No tournament this year... If we make it next that is an 8 seed at best. The year after though when Scruggs and Naji are seniors we will be a 1 seed threat. Gonna be a 2 year build so just watch and enjoy

[bjf123]

I doubt we’ll get to 50 points.


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[Xavier]

Naji sucks

[xu82]

I dont want to throw in the towel on Steele yet because I want to see how next years team does but we dont run any offensive sets. Just run the weave up top and either chuck a 3 or let Marshall and goodin drive inton3 guys and get thier shot blocked.



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So you plan to give him, say, a dozen games? Yeah, THAT should be enough to predict the future!

Did you NOT know coming into this year there would be some bumpy times and growing pains? He had to cobble together a roster, and we have a long way to go.

[GoMuskies]

Cumberland isolated on Welage? Not ideal.

[DexterBailey84]

I dont want to throw in the towel on Steele yet because I want to see how next years team does but we dont run any offensive sets.

Wow. We're 10 games in and he has exactly one shooter on the team.
Seems a bit over the top...but maybe that's just me.

[stammina0721]

Steele has nothing... This team couldn't win the MAC. Give him a few years to build it up right

[GoMuskies]

Cumberland isolated on Welage? Not ideal.

Even the Gnome knows to go to this.

Little late on the tech Travis. Just kinda makes you look like an idiot getting one at this point.

[X Factor]

Steele has nothing... This team couldn't win the MAC. Give him a few years to build it up right

Naji was a Top 50 recruit, Scruggs was a Top 50 recruit, Goodin was Top 100, Jones was Top 100.

[GoMuskies]

Steele has nothing... This team couldn't win the MAC. Give him a few years to build it up right

Buffalo is in the MAC. That team might win the Big East if they were in it

[xu82]

I had high hopes, but low expectations for today.

Who thinks Mick won’t run it up if he can?

[Xville]

This xavier team is just not very good. For those saying we have quite a bit of talent, I dont see it. We have scruggs, Jones, naji and that's about it. Q is ok but the rest of the team is not big east talent and wouldn't be on the team had mack not struck out so bad last year.

[X Factor]

This xavier team is just not very good. For those saying we have quite a bit of talent, I dont see it. We have scruggs, Jones, naji and that's about it. Q is ok but the rest of the team is not big east talent and wouldn't be on the team had mack not struck out so bad last year.

Hankins thinks he's still playing against 6'6 DII centers.

[paulxu]

We don't look so good.

[KFX]

This team has no fight or heart and that is something that is very disappointing in a new coach. You can’t control the talent level but damn this team plays timid and with zero fight. Steele needs to look in the mirror.

[GoMuskies]

We don't look so good.

Well, depends if you enjoy shitty or not.

[stammina0721]

Naji was a Top 50 recruit, Scruggs was a Top 50 recruit, Goodin was Top 100, Jones was Top 100.

Yeah and they are all young with a 1st year coach. They have nothing now... But in 2 years it will grow into something special. That is why I said compete for a 1 seed in 2 years.

[X Factor]

I wish we played tough defense like UC...I just threw up.

[X Factor]

Now we're gonna hear the players talk about how they just weren't tough today, didn't play hard enough, etc.

[noteggs]

Simple. You play UC and you need to hit outside shots. Something we can’t do right now. Still think we have good talent

[bjf123]

This is fucking embarrassing. I’ve switched channels and am watching EPL soccer. This team isn’t making the NIT. They were woefully unprepared for this game and that’s all on Steele.


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[RoseyMuskie]

Steele needed to sit Naji down this afternoon. Otherwise, X doesn’t have the firepower against a defense like that on the road.

[GoMuskies]

Simple. You play UC and you need to hit outside shots. Something we can’t do right now. Still think we have good talent

And you cant be intimidated. And we most certainly were.

[XUBob]

I’ll say it first and everyone can get pissed at me, Travis out coached by Mick ——how sad.

[stammina0721]

Simple. You play UC and you need to hit outside shots. Something we can’t do right now. Still think we have good talent

It's young... That matters we don't have blue chippers. Gotta wait 2 years to compete again because we don't reload through the international talent like Gonzaga does

[bjf123]

I’ll say it first and everyone can get pissed at me, Travis out coached by Mick ——how sad.

Nope. I said it 15 minutes ago.


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[noteggs]

And you cant be intimidated. And we most certainly were.

There’s no doubt about that

[XU 87]

I’ll say it first and everyone can get pissed at me, Travis out coached by Mick ——how sad.

Travis would have coached better if X had some of those open threes.

[bjf123]

So what’s the lowest point total we’ve scored since the 3 point shot came into play? This has got to be a new record.


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[stammina0721]

No you don't sit Naji. It's nothing but inexperience

[X Factor]

Travis would have coached better if X had some of those open threes.

Yeah, but the guys didn't bring it all today. More dumb turnovers, lazy defense, gave up tons of offensive rebounds.

[xu82]

Piss Mick off, get it to single digits!

[X Factor]

No you don't sit Naji. It's nothing but inexperience

Quit using the inexperience excuse.

[XUBison]

Travis would have coached better if X had some of those open threes.

Oh shut up.

[paulxu]

Don't know what Travis says postgame.

But I'm betting it's not whinny ass titty baby crap like Mick.

[XU 87]

Oh shut up.

Great analysis. X missed lots of threes. That’s the main reason why we lost.

[X Factor]

Great analysis. X missed lots of threes. That’s the main reason why we lost.

No it's not.

[bjf123]

So what’s the lowest point total we’ve scored since the 3 point shot came into play? This has got to be a new record.


According to Shannon, it’s 42 in the post brawl game against Oral Roberts.


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[Xville]

Oh shut up.

Fan on fan crime.....its going to be a very long year if some of you dont accept the fact that this team isnt making the tournament and just look for growth from the young talent.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

I was told the reason X lost was because “Steele can’t motivate this team.”

[DexterBailey84]

No you don't sit Naji. It's nothing but inexperience

so lack of hustle is due to inexperience?

okay then.

[GoMuskies]

Great analysis. X missed lots of threes. That’s the main reason why we lost.

Unfortunately not something likely to change on a consistent basis this year.

[X Factor]

X made 5 threes. UC made 5 threes.

X not making threes was not the main reason we lost.

[Caf]

Naji and Goodin are shooting horribly, but honest question, who else is going to shoot? Hankins and Jones couldn't even get open for a pass. The lane was clogged. Scruggs can't stay on the floor consistently. We had nothing except mediocre 3 pt looks all game.

[X Factor]

so lack of hustle is due to inexperience?

okay then.

Thank you.

[bjf123]

Unfortunately not something likely to change on a consistent basis this year.

If opposing coaches are smart, they’ll throw a 2-3 zone at us all day. We have no answer for that.


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[Porkopolis]

Lack of talent I can accept. If the other team is better, so be it. Lack of effort and hustle is inexcusable. You can always control that.

[GoMuskies]

Fuck Chris Mack. He left us this shitty roster.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Not even any mop up duty for Elias, so assuming it’s something other than being a healthy scratch.

[bjf123]

Not even any mop up duty for Elias, so assuming it’s something other than being a healthy scratch.

Yep. Doubt he would have been any worse than what we saw.


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[X Factor]

Can't wait until KyKy and Dahmir get here next year. I'm telling you, they are going to be good.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

How come a guy like Q couldn’t get to the rack at all today?

[DexterBailey84]

Can't wait until KyKy and Dahmir if they get here next year. I'm telling you, they are going to be good.

Fixed it for you..

[Xville]

Can't wait until KyKy and Dahmir get here next year. I'm telling you, they are going to be good.

Yep and odom the year after...this roster needs a talent infusion...its ok we aren't going to be loaded every year...we aren't a blue blood and as someone said we dont play in international waters like the zags

[X Factor]

Fixed it for you..

They did both sign their LOI's so hopefully they do get here.

[whopper]

Seton Hall just beat Kentucky? Creighton up against Gonzaga with 5 to go before losing Man this will be a tough year and every game will count.

[klark]

I was told the reason X lost was because “Steele can’t motivate this team.”

If you need to be motivated for a game like today then you probably don't need to be out there at all.

[KFX]

If you don’t have talent what you can do is instill discipline on both sides of the ball. Xavier offensive sets are very poor - shot selection is poor, q and naji and even Scruggs just out of control at times taking it to the rim. Team cannot make a confident pass into the post. Naji cannot handle the fucking ball - he gets caught on the dribble too much and he’s left digging for the ball at his feet. Q is a poor decision maker. Scruggs is a competent scorer but he is a confidence player and too often he seems To play with little confidence. Castlin is not a BE player. Tyrique is a little bit of an enigma. Blows hot and cold

Team needs an iron hand. Steele ain’t the guy. I do not care about the BE or about the tournament. I would just like to see improvement and I have not seen any over 10 games. Free throws still iffy, timid play, no diving on the floor, lack of intensity and effort. All of that is on the coach That’s why he gets paid.

[drudy23]

X made 5 threes. UC made 5 threes.

X not making threes was not the main reason we lost.

LOL...yeah, it kinda was. It was obvious UC's gameplan was to protect the paint at all costs and make us beat them from the perimeter. They had 5 guys in the paint our our drives, and the even had the athletic ability to get to shooters even with 5 guys in the paint. Then we missed a bunch. There was zero chance of us playing inside out today. UC's defense was great.

UC didn't have to make 3's to beat us. They got plenty of dunks.

[drudy23]

I think it's become pretty clear that Q, Naji and Tyrique are great complementary players. But I don't know they'll ever be good enough to be guys that are going to put the team on their back. They just don't have that skillset.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

If you need to be motivated for a game like today then you probably don't need to be out there at all.

I called the guy an idiot, and said exactly the same thing. He goes “X gets off to slow starts and doesn’t dive for loose balls.” We were up 18-14. It’s one thing to be critical. It’s another thing to be wrong.

[X Factor]

LOL...yeah, it kinda was. It was obvious UC's gameplan was to protect the paint at all costs and make us beat them from the perimeter. They had 5 guys in the paint our our drives, and the even had the athletic ability to get to shooters even with 5 guys in the paint. Then we missed a bunch. There was zero chance of us playing inside out today. UC's defense was great.

UC didn't have to make 3's to beat us. They got plenty of dunks.

UC had a 15-2 advantage in points off turnovers 12-4 advantage in second chance points.

X not making threes isn't what beat us.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

If you don’t have talent what you can do is instill discipline on both sides of the ball. Xavier offensive sets are very poor - shot selection is poor, q and naji and even Scruggs just out of control at times taking it to the rim. Team cannot make a confident pass into the post. Naji cannot handle the fucking ball - he gets caught on the dribble too much and he’s left digging for the ball at his feet. Q is a poor decision maker. Scruggs is a competent scorer but he is a confidence player and too often he seems To play with little confidence. Castlin is not a BE player. Tyrique is a little bit of an enigma. Blows hot and cold

Team needs an iron hand. Steele ain’t the guy. I do not care about the BE or about the tournament. I would just like to see improvement and I have not seen any over 10 games. Free throws still iffy, timid play, no diving on the floor, lack of intensity and effort. All of that is on the coach That’s why he gets paid.

If we scream at them loud enough and often enough, they’ll learn how to get the job done. You’re right.

[drudy23]

UC had a 15-2 advantage in points off turnovers 12-4 advantage in second chance points.

X not making threes isn't what beat us.

OK - we couldn't score, whether it was from 3 or 2. That much was obvious. Their defense was smothering and deadly.

[XUOWNSUC]

I'm starting to think about not going to the Big East tournament this year. We have been there the last 2 years and had a blast. But this year's team has me thinking about skipping it this year. Sucks.

[drudy23]

I'm starting to think about not going to the Big East tournament this year. We have been there the last 2 years and had a blast. But this year's team has me thinking about skipping it this year. Sucks.

On a positive note, it will probably be the only chance we have to make the tournament, so at least the games will have a do-or-die feel to them.

[KFX]

If we scream at them loud enough and often enough, they’ll learn how to get the job done. You’re right.

Huh? No need to scream in order to have a mentally tougher team than what we are seeing now.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

That defense played right into what we do well. They stopped our drives and we couldn’t shoot it well enough to open lanes. This is how I thought it would go.

We are NOT ncaa tournament quality. Not even close.


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[MITTENMUSKIE16]

How do you possibly know Steele isn’t the guy 10 games into his tenure?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

REALITY guys, that’s what it is. You don’t have to blame this person or that person, we are just not very good right now. They have potential; just need time to mature.

[scoscox]

It’s honestly ridiculous we keep having to say this game after game but 14 threes from naji and Quentin is way too many. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure this out

[stammina0721]

Shut the hell up up people. We are three good recruits and a bunch of transfers. In 2 years we will compete for a 1 seed but we are not Duke we are not UK. We don't get those level of players. We need senior leadership and experience to win. You are a Xavier fan not a Duke fan. Our coach is not staying 30 years. You need to trust the program and know in a couple years we will be legitimate contenders again

[stammina0721]

It’s honestly ridiculous we keep having to say this game after game but 14 threes from naji and Quentin is way too many. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure this out

Why??? NBA is nothing but this now. That is how you win in today's basketball. Tell me the last team that won a NC by posting up

[KFX]

Shut the hell up up people. We are three good recruits and a bunch of transfers. In 2 years we will compete for a 1 seed but we are not Duke we are not UK. We don't get those level of players. We need senior leadership and experience to win. You are a Xavier fan not a Duke fan. Our coach is not staying 30 years. You need to trust the program and know in a couple years we will be legitimate contenders again

Trust what you see. Blind faith is never the answer.

[scoscox]

Why??? NBA is nothing but this now. That is how you win in today's basketball. Tell me the last team that won a NC by posting up

Because they can’t make them. Pretty simple. I wish they could, but they cant

1. This team isn’t winning a natty or competing for one by any stretch.
2. UNC two years ago
3. This could easily be on the coaches as much as the players. Nova knows how to teach shooting. Doesn’t seem like we do

[stammina0721]

Trust what you see. Blind faith is never the answer.

It's not blind Faith. The Xavier way has proven itself since '89. Get ur young ass out of here and quit living in the present

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

It’s honestly ridiculous we keep having to say this game after game but 14 threes from naji and Quentin is way too many. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure this out

Yep. Combined they should take maybe 5 threes a game, and only wide open kick outs. Combined they should take 15 free throws a game. Know what you’re good at, know what you struggle with.

[xu82]

I don’t remember the last time I felt better about my Bills team than Xavier.

Long term, I’m still looking forward to X being X, but there will be a rough stretch ahead. Don’t lose the faith!

[xu82]

Yep. Combined they should take maybe 5 threes a game, and only wide open kick outs. Combined they should take 15 free throws a game. Know what you’re good at, know what you struggle with.

So, are you saying Naji needs to know he’s not a PG? Dribbling is an adventure for him. Don’t try to do too much.

[scoscox]

Naji plays as if there’s not another team playing defense. He’s just perpetually careless

[scoscox]

Why??? NBA is nothing but this now. That is how you win in today's basketball. Tell me the last team that won a NC by posting up

And I’m not saying don’t shoot at all. I’m fine with four or even five threes maybe if they’re open but it’s ridiculous that they are taking the same number of threes Trevon Bluiett was last year

[bleedXblue]

If you don’t have talent what you can do is instill discipline on both sides of the ball. Xavier offensive sets are very poor - shot selection is poor, q and naji and even Scruggs just out of control at times taking it to the rim. Team cannot make a confident pass into the post. Naji cannot handle the fucking ball - he gets caught on the dribble too much and he’s left digging for the ball at his feet. Q is a poor decision maker. Scruggs is a competent scorer but he is a confidence player and too often he seems To play with little confidence. Castlin is not a BE player. Tyrique is a little bit of an enigma. Blows hot and cold

Team needs an iron hand. Steele ain’t the guy. I do not care about the BE or about the tournament. I would just like to see improvement and I have not seen any over 10 games. Free throws still iffy, timid play, no diving on the floor, lack of intensity and effort. All of that is on the coach That’s why he gets paid.

You were doing so well until you said Steele isnt the guy........just stop it already. We KNEW that we were going to have growing pains.

[bleedXblue]

I'm not going through all of the previous 12 pages....yeah I'm lazy.......if this team doesn't start taking their defense seriously......as in its the #1 priority of this team before we do anything on the offensive end....this is going to be a LONG year. We DO NOT HAVE TREVON BLUEITT and JP on this team. We have a bunch of guys who are mediocre shooters at best.

We must DEFEND, create MORE turnovers and be a defensive minded team FIRST. Forget all of the the other BS.

[XUBison]

How do you possibly know Steele isn’t the guy 10 games into his tenure?

You’re right, but you can’t possibly say he is either. All the rhetoric like ”the Xavier way” is just... empty rhetoric. The fact is, we don’t know.

The more concerning thing for me right now is that I’m afraid our key players aren’t very coachable. Steele sees the same problems we do, but they persist nonetheless. Q is supposed to be our steady leader, but he has somehow contorted himself into a hotdog instead. Naji is supposed to be our best player, and he’s confusing himself with Scottie Pippen. NCAA or not, my measure for Steele this year will be what Q and Naji look like at the end of the season. Looks like he has his work cut out for him.

[bleedXblue]

You’re right, but you can’t possibly say he is either. All the rhetoric like ”the Xavier way” is just... empty rhetoric. The fact is, we don’t know.

The more concerning thing for me right now is that I’m afraid our key players aren’t very coachable. Steele sees the same problems we do, but they persist nonetheless. Q is supposed to be our steady leader, but he has somehow contorted himself into a hotdog instead. Naji is supposed to be our best player, and he’s confusing himself with Scottie Pippen. NCAA or not, my measure for Steele this year will be what Q and Naji look like at the end of the season. Looks like he has his work cut out for him.

well said

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Pump the brakes people, those of us who know basketball well knew this was coming. This year is going to suck. Next year is where Steele proves himself. He will have two seniors and three juniors in the program long term to use. Add to that a great class coming in and hopefully a 4-5 star in Odom coming after.

The season will be tough but the future is just fine.


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[MITTENMUSKIE16]

I don’t know if he’s it, but there’s people more important than me who had believed in him enough to hire him. And I agree, I wouldn’t say “coachable” because of all the connotations that come with it that I don’t think apply to these guys, but more so set in their ways. At this point, Q and Tyrique are what they are. Naji has definitely run hot and cold, and Paul is out most talented, hardest working player, but puts himself into foul trouble way too much.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Pump the brakes people, those of us who know basketball well knew this was coming. This year is going to suck. Next year is where Steele proves himself. He will have two seniors and three juniors in the program long term to use. Add to that a great class coming in and hopefully a 4-5 star in Odom coming after.

The season will be tough but the future is just fine.


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Next year should be a protected seed year. The 2019-20 year should be another special year, a la 2015/2017 years, minus the early exits.

2015-2016 year is the model that Xavier will forever be built on, IMO. Long, athletic, tough, skilled, a little bit of everything. Definitely not reliant on one end of the floor.

[Caf]

It’s honestly ridiculous we keep having to say this game after game but 14 threes from naji and Quentin is way too many. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure this out

I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I don't see any other option against a team like UC with this roster.

They completely took away the interior. Our interior offense was non-existent. Hankins and Jones did absolutely nothing. People here love to say Goodin and especially Naji are being lazy. What about Hankins and Jones? Were they in the building? They couldn't even get open for a pass.

No one had success driving the ball. They crashed and completely took that away. Plus, none of our players are good enough passers to dependably pass inside-out. At best we won some fights on the boards, or picked up drop balls and got put backs.

We can't depend on volume from Welage. Castlin couldn't hit anything. What am I missing that seems so obvious to everyone else? Crap threes are the best looks we were able to get all game. If we took less threes we would have just had more turnovers.

[xukeith]

No you don't sit Naji. It's nothing but inexperience

Agree. Next will not be much better with 5 wided eyed frosh. Weight for Steele's 3rd year seniors Scruggs and Marshall, shooters as sophs, and frontcourt that is better. When will someone ask Steele if thos year's team still is on pace to be the best defensively?
Cronin pulled Jones away from the basket as MAck did to Cronin's Clark last year.

[bleedXblue]

I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I don't see any other option against a team like UC with this roster.

They completely took away the interior. Our interior offense was non-existent. Hankins and Jones did absolutely nothing. People here love to say Goodin and especially Naji are being lazy. What about Hankins and Jones? Were they in the building? They couldn't even get open for a pass.

No one had success driving the ball. They crashed and completely took that away. Plus, none of our players are good enough passers to dependably pass inside-out. At best we won some fights on the boards, or picked up drop balls and got put backs.

We can't depend on volume from Welage. Castlin couldn't hit anything. What am I missing that seems so obvious to everyone else? Crap threes are the best looks we were able to get all game. If we took less threes we would have just had more turnovers.

I think to be fair, you are giving way too much credit to UC's defense. There are definitely ways to get them spread out more and create shots closer to the basket. X is still struggling to find out the right rotation. Add to that I think they are still a little lost playing without guys like Tre and JP who bailed us out of bad situations many, many times. Regardless, its not the offense that's going to carry this team anyway. And THAT is the issue. This team hasnt bought into playing better D and creating more turnovers.

[xu82]

Pump the brakes people, those of us who know basketball well knew this was coming. This year is going to suck. Next year is where Steele proves himself. He will have two seniors and three juniors in the program long term to use. Add to that a great class coming in and hopefully a 4-5 star in Odom coming after.

The season will be tough but the future is just fine.


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While I happen to concur, there was a way to say that without coming off as being so pompous. :-)

[kellernr]

Naji plays as if there’s not another team playing defense. He’s just perpetually carelessAnd then instead of running back on D when he turns it over he puts all the way back down the court. The kid has a ton of potential if he would just realize he should be playing inside the arc. Look at how Farr played his senior year once he quit living on the perimeter.

Q needs to just work on finding open guys and setting them up for good shots. He thinks he is blueitt out there with all those 3s he chucks up.

Scruggs would play better if he could stay out of foul trouble. He's got a nice shot from 3 and should have shot it more today instead of pump faking. Their D realized we were pump faking every shot so they just stayed disciplined and blocked it on the drive.

Jones has been a disappointment. He dropped all that weight but now he doesnt seem to be a physical force down low and gets knocked off balance to easily.

These are the 4 guys that should be leading this team and trying to calm everyone down when the other team goes on a run. Instead we give up a 3 and race down to the other end and try to match them by chucking a three early in the shot clock.

Also I dont have any faith in Steele right now. Before the season started he claimed this would be the best defensive team X hs had in years. From what I've seen so far this year this is a very undisciplined team and they can't play a lick of defense. No one ever has their hands up when defending the perimeter so guys are going to keep pulling up and shooting right over them. Steele needs to light a fire under this team. If he hurts thier feeling so what. They are here because they can hop it up. They aren't at X for the degree.

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[noteggs]

If I had to bet, the UC board last year was very similar to ours this year. Grant it both teams had higher expectations last year for season end.

[Jumpin_Jamal_Forever]

Buckle up. It is going to be a long season.

I'm led to believe, by many posts, that the Calvary will arrive (in the form of better talent) over the next two years. Although not a follower of X.U. recruiting, I will accept that.

But, we have had talent in prior years...indeed a lot of talent last year. And, we still lost some big games in the conference regular season and in the Big East tournament.

The Big East is a coaches conference. it has some of the best coaching talent of any conference in the country. And, its venues have some of the toughest fans in all of college basketball.

Even talent requires coaching. We must learn to play tough, hard nosed, team oriented defense. We must learn to play smart disciplined basketball requiring that we stop turning the ball over, jack up threes which are low percentage (made more so, when they are taken by Q and Naji) make some damn free throws (honestly this is one of the most basic skills in the game), and play with "J.P. like" grit refusing to be intimidated by either foul mouthed coaches or tough crowds.

This team has demonstrated none of that, none I say.

The grad transfers, although initially exciting, have proved to be mortal human beings; one dimensional like RW, a bit overrated like ZH or just average players like KC. Scruggs and Naji, although talented, are undisciplined. Q, who improved significantly last year (from his freshman season) apparently spent the summer working diligently on his golf game and everybody else has excelled only, it seems, at arriving on time for the team bus.

this team is undisciplined, easily intimidated and I fear, on the verge of quitting. That, at least, is conjecture and remains to be seen. Coach Steele, with the departure of a seasoned group of assistant coaches to U.L. was dealt a bad hand---although one he requested. I

[drudy23]

There's a reason why our grad transfers spent the last 3-4 years where they were.

Plain and simple, it's a transition year. For everyone, coaches and players included.

Honestly, it may be a transition 2 years.

[drudy23]

I'm not going through all of the previous 12 pages....yeah I'm lazy.......if this team doesn't start taking their defense seriously......as in its the #1 priority of this team before we do anything on the offensive end....this is going to be a LONG year. We DO NOT HAVE TREVON BLUEITT and JP on this team. We have a bunch of guys who are mediocre shooters at best.

We must DEFEND, create MORE turnovers and be a defensive minded team FIRST. Forget all of the the other BS.

While in theory I agree, you can't just flip a switch either. Good defenders are good defenders.

You can't expect 3 transfers that played well below high D1 level to be great defenders. The speed, strength, quickness, and athleticism are all new to them. In reality, they're not good enough to be great defenders. That isn't going to change over the next 2 months.

Just come to the conclusion that we're going to take our lumps this year. Big East play could get ugly. 4-5 wins ugly.

[drudy23]

I certainly don't disagree with your point, but I don't see any other option against a team like UC with this roster.

They completely took away the interior. Our interior offense was non-existent. Hankins and Jones did absolutely nothing. People here love to say Goodin and especially Naji are being lazy. What about Hankins and Jones? Were they in the building? They couldn't even get open for a pass.

No one had success driving the ball. They crashed and completely took that away. Plus, none of our players are good enough passers to dependably pass inside-out. At best we won some fights on the boards, or picked up drop balls and got put backs.

We can't depend on volume from Welage. Castlin couldn't hit anything. What am I missing that seems so obvious to everyone else? Crap threes are the best looks we were able to get all game. If we took less threes we would have just had more turnovers.

This is all very accurate.

[XUGRAD80]

It’s simple....Xavier has a pretty weak roster right now because of players leaving and not enough good recruits coming in to take their places. Forget the transfers and just consider this team if the seniors on the team right now where Summers, Gates, and London? For all intents and purposes that is a lost year of recruiting when looking at THIS year’s team. X has brought in and has kept exactly 4 good quality recruits that a solid contributors to THIS YEARS team over the last 4 years...Q, Jones, Naji, and Scruggs. Hardin, James, Kennedy may eventually become solid players in the future, but right now, they aren’t giving X very much. For me, this is a prime example of why it’s silly to leave scholarships unfilled. Sure, X lost a lot after last year, but everyone could see that coming. What they didn’t do was a good enough job preparing for that. We are seeing right now what lack of consistently restocking the roster with quality freshman recruits, and then developing and keeping those players for 3-4 years, brings about. Let’s hope that some of the freshman coming in next year will be able to contribute right away and that the others will stay and develop to where they can also contribute. Let’s hope that the underclassmen on this roster right now stay and continue to develop, and let’s hope that Steele can continue to bring in strong recruiting classeshear after year.

[Juice]

It’s simple....Xavier has a pretty weak roster right now because of players leaving and not enough good recruits coming in to take their places. Forget the transfers and just consider this team if the seniors on the team right now where Summers, Gates, and London? For all intents and purposes that is a lost year of recruiting when looking at THIS year’s team. X has brought in and has kept exactly 4 good quality recruits that a solid contributors to THIS YEARS team over the last 4 years...Q, Jones, Naji, and Scruggs. Hardin, James, Kennedy may eventually become solid players in the future, but right now, they aren’t giving X very much. For me, this is a prime example of why it’s silly to leave scholarships unfilled. Sure, X lost a lot after last year, but everyone could see that coming. What they didn’t do was a good enough job preparing for that. We are seeing right now what lack of consistently restocking the roster with quality freshman recruits, and then developing and keeping those players for 3-4 years, brings about. Let’s hope that some of the freshman coming in next year will be able to contribute right away and that the others will stay and develop to where they can also contribute. Let’s hope that the underclassmen on this roster right now stay and continue to develop, and let’s hope that Steele can continue to bring in strong recruiting classeshear after year.

I see two big issues:
1) Gates leaving. I don't think anyone was prepared for that.
2) The non- development of Elias Harden. He should be providing depth, shooting, etc

[Lloyd Braun]

The top 5-6 guys can compete with most teams, but without any depth they burn out pretty quickly against good teams. To me, this team’s strength on offense is a fast paced transition team with big fast strong guards that can push the ball to the hoop. Unfortunately you need some depth to implement that, and they don’t have the energy on D.

So, yea, I think everyone is saying the same thing and are correct. Depth.

[XUGRAD80]

I see two big issues:
1) Gates leaving. I don't think anyone was prepared for that.
2) The non- development of Elias Harden. He should be providing depth, shooting, etc

The issue isn’t that the players left....it’s that they weren’t preparing just in case that happened, and it’s happened A LOT over the last 4 years

Hardin IS getting better, he may not ever get good enough to be a big contributor, or he may be like Farr and come on strong as an upperclassman/senior.

But it is really tough when there is only 1 player like Hardin, and by that I mean only 1 player that is not a freshman, but isn’t a starter. They haven’t either kept the roster full or done a good job of developing depth that is ready to step in and become starters when other players leave. It’s been pretty much boon or bust with the Xavier recruits for several years now. They’ve been either starters or they leave, and ones like Summer have been starters and still leave. I wonder if the pressure to win NOW has been a major factor? Has the player rotation plan been based more on the need to win the current game, at the cost of not developing depth? I have to say, yes. IMO that’s exactly what has happened. It payed off for Mack, I guess. It paid off for last years seniors. But it’s sure hurting X this year.

[bleedXblue]

While in theory I agree, you can't just flip a switch either. Good defenders are good defenders.

You can't expect 3 transfers that played well below high D1 level to be great defenders. The speed, strength, quickness, and athleticism are all new to them. In reality, they're not good enough to be great defenders. That isn't going to change over the next 2 months.

Just come to the conclusion that we're going to take our lumps this year. Big East play could get ugly. 4-5 wins ugly.

Yeah I'm not saying we are going to be elite defensively. I'm simply saying that the mindset has to change. I think we will be an ok offensive team and will score enough to win some games regardless of the defense. If we want to win 8-10 BE games, then every single player on the roster needs to play with significantly more energy, be way more scrappy and create more turnovers that we can turn into easy points. The bend, don't break and keep your guy in front of you scheme is not working.

Look, UC can make you look bad and its very common after a big loss to go negative in a hurry. Clearly Jones was not himself. Clearly Steele has to make some adjustments on the defensive end AND reign in Q and Marshall from 3. I'm still perplexed that our best shooter isn't getting more minutes when this team struggles to shoot from outside. I still think there is enough talent to go around to win 20 games. Call me crazy.

[Xville]

Yeah I'm not saying we are going to be elite defensively. I'm simply saying that the mindset has to change. I think we will be an ok offensive team and will score enough to win some games regardless of the defense. If we want to win 8-10 BE games, then every single player on the roster needs to play with significantly more energy, be way more scrappy and create more turnovers that we can turn into easy points. The bend, don't break and keep your guy in front of you scheme is not working.

Look, UC can make you look bad and its very common after a big loss to go negative in a hurry. Clearly Jones was not himself. Clearly Steele has to make some adjustments on the defensive end AND reign in Q and Marshall from 3. I'm still perplexed that our best shooter isn't getting more minutes when this team struggles to shoot from outside. I still think there is enough talent to go around to win 20 games. Call me crazy.

I’m calling you crazy :) I don’t think there is a chance of this team winning 20. At best this teams record will be 9-4 in non con and that Mizzou game is a toss up. Mizzou is getting better and they defend like uc. Even if they do win that game, they’d have to have a better than 500 record in the big east and I just don’t see it happening with this group. I see 16-18 wins but that’s just me.

[bleedXblue]

I’m calling you crazy :) I don’t think there is a chance of this team winning 20. At best this teams record will be 9-4 in non con and that Mizzou game is a toss up. Mizzou is getting better and they defend like uc. Even if they do win that game, they’d have to have a better than 500 record in the big east and I just don’t see it happening with this group. I see 16-18 wins but that’s just me.

Yeah I was considering the tourney as well where they would have a chance to win a couple games. Realize that its a stretch, but this team has not played its best basketball by any stretch. One thing that's a huge question mark is Steele being a first year HC. Can he make the adjustments and get the team to buy in?

[whopper]

I think every player has to play 5% better and by 5% better I mean 5% more energy on defense and running the court. You dance with who brung you and there is no chance for radical change now. We really don't turn anyone over, in fact sometimes we almost cause a turnover and then get back into defensive stance. I also don't see us pushing for early offense and we get zero easy baskets. I wish Jones /Hankins would hit a mid range now and then..I feel that Kanter was the difference maker last year with his versatility. Looking at the minutes played yesterday I see Naj, Q, Scruggs in the 30s and Jones and Castin(who had an off day) in the high twenties. If we were putting out more defensive effort there would not be many in the 30s and we would use depth more and you could see Hankins and Welage in the 20s which I think would benefit the team. When was the last time you saw someone put their hand up needing a blow.. It will be a rocky road as Marquette and Seton Hall looked very good yesterday, Nova has stabilized, and Creighton took Gonzaga deep into game. PC and St Johns look tough also. The thought of sweeps is a distant memory. Steele will have his work cut out for him

[bjf123]

Shannon has an interesting quote from Q. “It’s time to wake up. We’ve just got to get better, watch film,” Goodin said. “We’ve just got to be dedicated to listening to the coaches.”

That’s not encouraging, implying they’re not too awake and not listening to the coaching staff. Based on the big leads we’ve blown, I think Q is right. They’re asleep at the wheel and not paying attention. If that changes, things will improve. If not, we’ll struggle to win 4 games in conference.


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[Muskie]

Shannon has an interesting quote from Q. “It’s time to wake up. We’ve just got to get better, watch film,” Goodin said. “We’ve just got to be dedicated to listening to the coaches.”

That’s not encouraging, implying they’re not too awake and not listening to the coaching staff. Based on the big leads we’ve blown, I think Q is right. They’re asleep at the wheel and not paying attention. If that changes, things will improve. If not, we’ll struggle to win 4 games in conference.


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Inner monologue?


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[bleedXblue]

I don't think we are quite there yet, but at some point you have to start sitting guys if they either aren't defending hard enough or taking ill advised shots that the coaches are encouraging them not to take.

The silver lining is that they have a whole week to get healthy and rest before the next game which should help. Defensive intensity/effort isn't easy to instill.......b/c the rewards aren't always instantaneous like they are on the offensive end.

[Xville]

Shannon has an interesting quote from Q. “It’s time to wake up. We’ve just got to get better, watch film,” Goodin said. “We’ve just got to be dedicated to listening to the coaches.”

That’s not encouraging, implying they’re not too awake and not listening to the coaching staff. Based on the big leads we’ve blown, I think Q is right. They’re asleep at the wheel and not paying attention. If that changes, things will improve. If not, we’ll struggle to win 4 games in conference.


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The same thing happened multiple times last year as well against even bad competition. The difference is that last year we had JP or tre who would all of a sudden turn the light on and get us out of the jam. I really think that for years now, xavier has had a roster full of guys that just have a laissez faire attitude...I'm looking forward to that changing with the recruits are going to infuse the program soon.

[Lloyd Braun]

I don't think we are quite there yet, but at some point you have to start sitting guys if they either aren't defending hard enough or taking ill advised shots that the coaches are encouraging them not to take.

Are you calling for more Leighton Schrand? Who are you playing in place of those that shoot ill-advised shots?

[bleedXblue]

Are you calling for more Leighton Schrand? Who are you playing in place of those that shoot ill-advised shots?

Really not that hard. Harden can play SG and Scruggs can go to point. Dontarius James isn't playing at all. Keonte Kennedy is hardly playing. Hell, Welage isnt logging many minutes.

Its sending the message IF they don't start to curtail the ridiculous amount of 3's they are chucking up.

[Lloyd Braun]

Really not that hard. Harden can play SG and Scruggs can go to point. Dontarius James isn't playing at all. Keonte Kennedy is hardly playing. Hell, Welage isnt logging many minutes.

Its sending the message IF they don't start to curtail the ridiculous amount of 3's they are chucking up.

I wouldn’t be opposed to staggering Q’s and Scruggs’ minutes more at all. However there just isn’t much depth past Welage.

[whopper]

this move to sit people more is not necessarily punishment. It would be because they are playing 5% harder and have to come out. I think when you know you are playing 35 min you would tend to pace yourself. Our "good" guy aren't that much better than the bench guys that they need to pace themselves. For example if Harden replaced Q and Scruggs going to point guard we would attack with 3's; If Welage played a few minutes as the main wing instead of Naj you might see some of that playmaking ability that got him 25-30 pt against Nevada and St Mary's instead of pure spot up. These are just a couple of examples but if you are not exhausted you won't come out. People need to be so tired they are asking to come out and that will come from defense and harder running the floor.

[bleedXblue]

I wouldn’t be opposed to staggering Q’s and Scruggs’ minutes more at all. However there just isn’t much depth past Welage.

How do you know what you have or don't have when Harden is hardly playing at all and Kennedy is getting sparse minutes.

[XU 87]

How do you know what you have or don't have when Harden is hardly playing at all and Kennedy is getting sparse minutes.

through watching them in practice.

[bleedXblue]

through watching them in practice.

Yeah I get that, but these guys go against each other damn near every day. They know what each others tendency's are/strengths and weaknesses etc. You've seen the development of a lot of Xavier players over the years from their freshman year to their senior year. I think a great point made earlier by another poster is that some of our guys are playing way too many minutes. Are they really able to defend at a high level and leave it on the floor playing 35 minutes a game? Harden,Kennedy and Welage need to playing more but for the simple point of giving Q and Scruggs and Marshall a blow.

37 minutes for Q yesterday and 38 for Marshall. These guys aren't playing all that great to have to leave them on the floor for the entire game...........

[XU 87]

Kennedy played 12 minutes yesterday and had no points, one assist and no rebounds. I also think that was Kennedy's area of responsibility when Cumberland hit back to back threes in the first half against the 1-3-1.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083367

Welage played 15 minutes and did have 8 points, but only had one rebound and can't guard. Personally, in games like this when the team is having trouble scoring, I like Welage out there. He's the only guy who has a consistent outside shot, but he is defensive and rebounding liability.

I also think a bigger issue yesterday was with Tyrique- he played 26 minutes and scored 2 points, taking 3 shots.

Bottom line as I view it- this team has transfers from San Jose State, Columbia and Ferris State, and we need them to make fairly significant contributions. Other than Welage and to some smaller extent Scruggs, this team has no consistent three point shooter. UC dared Goodin and Marshall to shoot threes yesterday, and they went a combined 2-15. If you want to argue that those 2 shouldn't be shooting a combined 15 threes per game, you'll get no dispute from me. But then again, sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you, and UC was cutting off the dribble penetration and leaving the three open.

[bleedXblue]

Kennedy played 12 minutes yesterday and had no points, one assist and no rebounds. I also think that was Kennedy's area of responsibility when Cumberland hit back to back threes in the first half.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083367

Welage played 15 minutes and did have 8 points, but only had one rebound and can't guard. Personally, in games like this when the team is having trouble scoring, I like Welage out there. He's the only guy who has a consistent outside shot, but he is defensive and rebounding liability.

I also think a bigger issue yesterday was with Tyrique- he played 26 minutes and scored 2 points, taking 3 shots.

Bottom line as I view it- this team has transfers from San Jose State, Columbia and Ferris State, and we need them to make fairly significant contributions. Other than Welage and to some smaller extent Scruggs, this team has no consistent three point shooter. UC dared Goodin and Marshall to shoot threes yesterday, and they went a combined 2-15. If you want to argue that those 2 shouldn't be shooting a combined 15 threes per game, you'll get no dispute from me. But then again, sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you, and UC was cutting off the dribble penetration and leaving the three open.

Pretty sure we made the brilliant decision to go zone late in the first half when Cumberland hit his wide open 3's. Regardless, we have guys on the bench that need to be playing more. They also need to understand that they need to contribute. For Kennedy yesterday I chalk some of that up to being a frosh in his first true college road game.

[XU 87]

Those Cumberland threes were against the 1-3-1, which I thought was effective until Cumberland hit those threes. Both threes were in Kennedy's area of the zone.

[noteggs]

Those Cumberland threes were against the 1-3-1, which I thought was effective until Cumberland hit those threes. Both threes were in Kennedy's area of the zone.

You’re right, both threes came from our 1-3-1. Cumberland’s first 3 was Kennedy’s fault as well as UC’s layup at end of first. As for Cumberland’s second three during that timeframe, not sure it was Kennedy’s fault. Look to me he was trying to recover from a blown coverage from someone else. If not, he was way way out of position. I could be wrong since I just saw the play once.

As “BLUE” said, the big lights did make Kennedy look like a true freshman yesterday. Overall this year, think Kennedy has done a decent job on what Steele is asking him to do.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

At some point this season, Steele is going to have to decide whether it’s better to win a few games or develop Kennedy, James, and Harden.

Playing Marshall and Goodin all those minutes doesn’t do that.


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[McX]

Wasn't Driessen a first baseman?

Both Driessen & Tony Perez, while ending their Reds careers and 1st basemen, began as 3rd basemen. They were both defensive liabilities at 3rd. The Big Dawg getting his chance across the diamond when we traded Lee May to the Astros in 72. Dreissen eventually became a bench player (he was the first DH in NL history in the 76 World Series) until we traded Perez to the Expos in 77.

Yes, yesterday was painful to watch, especially the 2nd half. Just have to keep the faith and hope to see some growth and improvement.

I am also super curious why we didn't see a single second of Harden.

[whopper]

you may be able to accomplish both. If these guys play with frenetic energy you may get opportunity baskets to make up for any loss in skill and experience. Something that annoyed the hell out of me a couple of years ago was when Oklahoma City used to complain when Westbrook went out the whole team went to hell and there were examples in the +/-. The problem was that his "backup" was Victor Oladipo who was put on such a tight rein that it because a self fulfilling prophecy. I think the 37 min guys need to go to 30-32, and Welage needs to get 22 and Hardin, Kennedy need 8 and maybe James 4. If anyone dogs it they sit and it could not hurt.

[bleedXblue]

I think some of this is a rookie head coach just not knowing how to manage through these things yet.

He better start NOW if hes going to get more minutes to those three guys. Its pay for it now or later...........

Playing some of these guys 37-38 minutes a game is not sustainable....especially when one was sick last week for 3-4 days.

[XU 87]

Playing some of these guys 37-38 minutes a game is not sustainable....especially when one was sick last week for 3-4 days.

I don't agree with that. They play twice a week. It's not like they are going to run out of gas in February.

Now if a guy is out on the court sucking wind, and he can't get a rest, that's a different story. But yesterday's game was slow moving and didn't involve a lot of running back and forth up and down the court. And let's not forget they get a break about every 4 minutes for a tv timeout.

If Harden, Kennedy or James aren't doing enough to earn PT, I don't think you play them. That said, Kennedy got 12 minutes yesterday (and did very little). I have to think Harden is still sick.

The other problem with Goodin is that Scruggs is the backup point guard. He keeps getting into foul trouble, and he's much better playing off the ball.
ard

[bleedXblue]

I don't agree with that. They play twice a week. It's not like they are going to run out of gas in February.

Now if a guy is out on the court sucking wind, and he can't get a rest, that's a different story. But yesterday's game was slow moving and didn't involve a lot of running back and forth up and down the court. And let's not forget they get a break about every 4 minutes for a tv timeout.

If Harden, Kennedy or James aren't doing enough to earn PT, I don't think you play them. That said, Kennedy got 12 minutes yesterday (and did very little). I have to think Harden is still sick.

The other problem with Goodin is that Scruggs is the backup point guard. He keeps getting into foul trouble, and he's much better playing off the ball.
ard

It isn't working now and they aren't making enough shots and playing strong D. I would rather try to develop the bench and get them some rest than allowing this to continue to happen.

[Caf]

It isn't working now and they aren't making enough shots and playing strong D. I would rather try to develop the bench and get them some rest than allowing this to continue to happen.

It seems unrealistic to expect Naji, Scruggs and Goodin to play less minutes. What would the line ups be? Atrocious no doubt. If Kennedy and Harden are going to get more minutes they would have to come from Welage and Castlin's share.

[bleedXblue]

It seems unrealistic to expect Naji, Scruggs and Goodin to play less minutes. What would the line ups be? Atrocious no doubt. If Kennedy and Harden are going to get more minutes they would have to come from Welage and Castlin's share.

l'm not taking about Naji and Goodin playing 25 minutes a game. But look at their stats. They both are shooting the ball significantly worse this year than last year (Goodin- his frosh year too). It could be a bunch of different things contributing to this and I get that.

Scruggs is forcing himself to the bench with foul trouble. Hes averaging 30 minutes a game and it would be great to get him up around 33-35 with as well as he's playing.

[drudy23]

Naji is at his best as a slasher and in the open court, and Q is at his best as a distributor and attacking the basket. Neither of these guys can be successful in these roles without perimeter guys that open up the lane. And coaches know this. None of them are going to allow the lanes to open for either Naji or Q, as opposing coaches know these are our best players.

Without a consistent shooting threat, they will continue to struggle out on the perimeter. It's not their game. But what's the alternative?

[bleedXblue]

Naji is at his best as a slasher and in the open court, and Q is at his best as a distributor and attacking the basket. Neither of these guys can be successful in these roles without perimeter guys that open up the lane. And coaches know this. None of them are going to allow the lanes to open for either Naji or Q, as opposing coaches know these are our best players.

Without a consistent shooting threat, they will continue to struggle out on the perimeter. It's not their game. But what's the alternative?

Scruggs and Welage are both shooting over 40% for the year from 3. I see Naji and Q settling for the 3 ball more often than them "having" to take that shot.

[drudy23]

Neither can get to the rim and are taking way too many shots they shouldn't be taking because of it.

I'm all for Scruggs and Welage getting more shots. I also don't think you can sit Welage as much as he sits even with his defensive deficiencies. You need a guy that can stretch the floor. It opens it up for everyone else. I'm also open to Harden playing more as he's at least shown some ability to hit some shots.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I just rewatched last years shootout and am pretending like yesterday never happened.

Can't wait to see what Tre and JP do next game! Yay!

[American X]

Concussing myself was more enjoyable than that game.

[SemajParlor]

I just rewatched last years shootout and am pretending like yesterday never happened.

Can't wait to see what Tre and JP do next game! Yay!

It doesn't feel like it's only been a year.