Kaiser Gates

[More Cowbell]

Jonathan Givony is repotting he hired an agent. That changes things a bit next year.

2286

[Backyard Champ]

Shocking that we didn't hear he hire an agent any time before this. Wondering if it was an accurate report.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

22872287 have absolutely no idea what this is saying, but... he also hasn’t been to class since March... and also, he picked up Trevon from there airport in a Bentley...

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Good lord, if there was anyone who needed a fourth year of playing it was Kaiser. This could be the epitome of the wrong people in his ear.

I am disappointed, but now I really hope that last grad transfer qualifies to play. We need him now.


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[smileyy]

Ehh... he'll make money as a 3-and-D wing in Europe. It truly is Naji, Q and Scrizzle's team now.

[MHettel]

Weak

[X Factor]

Ehh... he'll make money as a 3-and-D wing in Europe. It truly is Naji, Q and Scrizzle's team now.

Maybe, and then it won't be in one of the top leagues. He needs to improve a lot.

He averaged 5.5 points and 3.8 rebounds in 3 years. He was a 36% three point shooter.

There's no guarantee a European club will be interested.

[xu82]

I have to wonder what’s going on behind the scenes. How does Gates get along with all the coaches? Who is he tight with? What’s he feeling about the younger guys? It just seems he’d be better off staying, both for him and for X.

[Xavier]

I imagine he hired an agent strictly for the oversees connections/is happy with the NBA-G league money. I actually think it will become a trend to leave early despite very little chance at being drafted especially if the G-League route ever becomes a thing. They just raised the minimum salary to $35,000 for the 5 month regular season. While obviously that doesn't seem like a lot, it can be good for college kids. Player development could be better with all focus on basketball, more time in the gym and around coaches. I don't think its a bad decision and for some it could make them more attractive to be signed oversees where I think Gates could have a fine career.

[JTG]

Maybe Steele hinted he wasn't big in next year's plan. Those 3 grad guys are all going to want to play.

[Xuperman]

I have suspected in the last 2 years and would be willing to bet, that something is going on with Kaiser in his personal life.....He just has had ZERO impact on games in any consistent manner. A young man with his physical tools has been a ghost out there and basketball does not seem to be high on his list of life priorities from an effort standpoint. In other words, intensity has been severely lacking.....he plays with no heart.

[BMoreX]

Shannon confirmed

[X-Expert]

I really hope X can convince Keonte Kennedy to come back to X. They will need his shooting

[dubbledxu]

I just hope he already has his degree and he is ok in his personal life. While I wish he had a more successful career at X, I wish him well going forward.

[Xuperman]

In recent memory, has X ever had an entire recruiting class not produce a rostered senior? That '15 class was a real CM disaster.

[More Cowbell]

In recent memory, has X ever had an entire recruiting class not produce a rostered senior? That '15 class was a real CM disaster.

Canty, Latham, Martin and Mckenzie

And the Randolph/Richards class

[Blue Blooded-05]

And here I thought we were done with the offseason bad news...

Gates was inconsistent as hell, but definitely wanted him on the roster next year. Best of luck to him. Next man up!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Maybe, and then it won't be in one of the top leagues. He needs to improve a lot.

He averaged 5.5 points and 3.8 rebounds in 3 years. He was a 36% three point shooter.

There's no guarantee a European club will be interested.

He will have zero problems getting a spot overseas somewhere. Now whether it is for a good or well paying club who knows.

I know of some people who had those stats in DIII and made money playing professional basketball.

[smileyy]

He might be the kind of guy who does better in a professional setting than a college one.

[smileyy]

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/05/05/xaviers-kaiser-gates-hires-an-agent-staying-in-2018-nba-draft/

[whopper]

wasn't he the reason Kyle Castiin came here from Columbia? In any event maybe I don't get the relation between college and the NBA anymore. When I look at Foster, Tre, Delgado, Ponds not going to combine I must be thinking of a different sport. Kaiser had potential and I have to wish him best of luck. I look back and he even played key minutes against Wisconsin as a freshman and a key in the elite 8. No need to knock. We are going to need a bigger impact from Welage, Castin and even Hankins to replace him.

[xukeith]

I just hope he already has his degree and he is ok in his personal life. While I wish he had a more successful career at X, I wish him well going forward.

Sadly as a 3rd year player, he does not have his degree. If he did, the Xavier University would proudly announce it.

[xukeith]

If any college player grew up poor and has the opportunity to make money playing basketball in China or Europe or make $35,000 in for 5 months in G-League, I would not be surprised a lot of players wanting to go and make money. If i were in their shoes, it would be extremely tempting.

[bobbiemcgee]

So much potential, so few results. Bon Vonage KG.

[MHettel]

If any college player grew up poor and has the opportunity to make money playing basketball in China or Europe or make $35,000 in for 5 months in G-League, I would not be surprised a lot of players wanting to go and make money. If i were in their shoes, it would be extremely tempting.

Or, you could stay in college for one more year, get a degree and the. Put yourself in a position to make six figures for the rest of your working life.

This is just dumb.

But on the other hand, I won’t miss him. I thought he stunk last year.

[xukeith]

Or, you could stay in college for one more year, get a degree and the. Put yourself in a position to make six figures for the rest of your working life.

This is just dumb.

But on the other hand, I won’t miss him. I thought he stunk last year.

I don't think any player after graduation is guaranteed 6 figure income. If you look at all X graduates over past 20 years, I would guess less than 20% make six figures. BUT there is a chance.

[Oguard61]

Coach had a recruit at dinner Thursday night with players and coaches...maybe a late addition

[xu82]

I love Kaiser and his family. We have no idea what is going on behind the scenes. I was fortunate to have some time with them in Orlando a couple March’s ago. Great people, and I wish them well.

[RedRyeIPA]

As an X fan for 35 years, this might be the most ill-informed decision I've ever seen.

[smileyy]

Why is that? This isn't about the NBA.

[xu82]

As an X fan for 35 years, this might be the most ill-informed decision I've ever seen.

Maybe it’s an ill-informed judgement, since we don’t know everything they know, think and feel???

I get that it looks odd from the outside, but what don’t we know?

[xukeith]

This is similar to 1996 when Tyson Brit graduated in 3 years but wanted to play his 4th year with X but was shown the door by Skip Prosser.
At least that is what Tyson Brit told me 20 years ago.

[Juice]

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/barstool-college-hoops-notebook-arizona-finally-gets-a-commitment-xavier-loses-starter-more/?_branch_match_id=402552725576670925


Xavier’s Kaiser Gates says he’s signing with an agent

Xavier is going to be a completely different team next season, which is no surprise. Not only did they lose head coach Chris Mack to Louisville and JP Macura and Trevon Bluiett to graduation but now Kaiser Gates announced he’s signing with an agent. Gates isn’t expected to be drafted, but as I always tell people, we don’t know everyone’s background. We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, so I never will make fun of a kid leaving despite not being expected to get drafted. Gates should find a spot in the G League or a decent European team due to his ability to stretch the floor as a 6’8″ forward. He’s also a decent defender and I wouldn’t necessarily be surprised if he lands on a two-way contract this or next year.

[Caveat]

As an X fan for 35 years, this might be the most ill-informed decision I've ever seen.

If he's being told he can make money somewhere, he should go make money somewhere.

[Xavier]

If he's being told he can make money somewhere, he should go make money somewhere.

That is probably too simplistic. At that point- I think any one that had significant playing time on last years team would be gone and making money somewhere.

[whopper]

The Big East will have huge changes this year and X will be no different. No more Seton Hall, Providence and Butler known quantities(and the draft could break up Villanova as we know it), and X will have some continuity but certainly some changes in store. I have been lulled to sleep with this continuity of all the teams and Kaiser is a shocker to me. I like our 3 grad transfers (and wasn't Kaiser a key recruiter of Kyle Castin?) and now to see what happens. Good luck as I can't get down on any 21 year old kids (and have a hard time hating any athlete anymore as I age.)

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I am sure if Kaiser pushed for Castlin that he would be honest that they would not be teammates.


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[paulxu]

Saw this in an article about an SMU kid that went to the Celtics. Sounds like Gates except the percentage.


Semi shot 42.4 percent from 3-point range at SMU and, combined with his lateral quickness, cast himself in the 3-and-D prototype that NBA teams so value now.

[smileyy]

If Kaiser Gates can defend Giannis like Semi did there's an NBA career for him. I don't see him doing that.

[XU 87]

If Kaiser Gates can defend Giannis like Semi did there's an NBA career for him. I don't see him doing that.

I think Kaiser was a very good defender at X. He just couldn't do much else on offense other than shoot threes, and if he wasn't hitting his threes, he could be a liability on offense.

That said, I don't understand why he's leaving early. We'll see.

[X Factor]

Saw this in an article about an SMU kid that went to the Celtics. Sounds like Gates except the percentage.

Not even close. Semi Ojeleye was the AAC POY his junior year (he transferred to SMU from Duke). He averaged 19 points and 7 rebounds. He shot 53% from 2 pt range and 42% from three.

[bleedXblue]

This is one of the more perplexing decisions I've ever seen out of a Xavier player. He would have been a starter and received 25+ minutes next year. He could have worked on his game and improved his stock at the same time being a key cog in the rotation. Europe would have been there next year? Almost screams like he wanted no part of another year of school. Getting your degree is huge for a guy like Kaiser who may need it 5 years from now. Sure he can always go back and get it, but those situations rarely play out that way. Where's the commitment to the school and teammates? Just makes little sense to me. Disappointing.....like most of his career here. What a waste.

[sirthought]

This should have been the year Gates put it all together and showed the world his confidence and skill set. He might find his way to a roster and get paid to do that, but it'll likely be on a much smaller stage than what XU provides...that's a real value to someone trying to raise their profile for a job.

Semi Ojeleye was a monster at SMU and wanted the ball in his hands as much as possible. Gates was never that kind of player, but could have been, as he has all the tools. Certainly a letdown in the sense that we'd like to see every player reach their full potential and graduate here. I wish him the best and hope he finds what's missing for him here.

[AviatorX]

This should have been the year Gates put it all together and showed the world his confidence and skill set. He might find his way to a roster and get paid to do that, but it'll likely be on a much smaller stage than what XU provides...that's a real value to someone trying to raise their profile for a job.

Semi Ojeleye was a monster at SMU and wanted the ball in his hands as much as possible. Gates was never that kind of player, but could have been, as he has all the tools. Certainly a letdown in the sense that we'd like to see every player reach their full potential and graduate here. I wish him the best and hope he finds what's missing for him here.

That is a wild wild comparison you made there. I like Kaiser’s game and defended him all year but his ball handling is a glaring black hole in his game. He doesn’t score off the bounce at all.

[sirthought]

That is a wild wild comparison you made there. I like Kaiser’s game and defended him all year but his ball handling is a glaring black hole in his game. He doesn’t score off the bounce at all.

What was I comparing exactly? I only brought of Ojeleye because Paulxu did, and that was to say they weren't the same.

I think Gates' game was fairly lacking overall, in-so-far-as where we all think he should be. I was hoping this year he'd finally break out. He was a valuable role player, but he could be so much more.

[AviatorX]

What was I comparing exactly? I only brought of Ojeleye because Paulxu did, and that was to say they weren't the same.

I think Gates' game was fairly lacking overall, in-so-far-as where we all think he should be. I was hoping this year he'd finally break out. He was a valuable role player, but he could be so much more.

Missed that. My bad.

[xukeith]

Looks like Butt Kull or whatever the grad transfer from Milwaukee was the recruit sitting at dinner with all players and coaches last week.
Looks like it’s between Butler, Xavier, Virginia and NC State.

He is 6’4 and 195 pounds. Averaged 13.7 points and 5 rebounds. 39% from 3 point land.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Where does Brock Stull fit in next year’s rotation? Is he a 3rd ball handler in case of injury? Does he push Castlin to rotate in more at the 3 now that Naji will be playing a lot of 4 and Welage will probably start at the 3? I’m sure if there’s any other 2018/grad transfers out there at the 3/4, Coach Steele is making an effort with the news of Kaiser.

[Drew]

The fact is, these kids are between a rock and a hard place. They know they only have 10 years to capitalize on their gifts. Do I think Kaiser wants his degree? Hell yes, but he also wants to make a living. If he sees little reason to believe that another year at Xavier will significantly increase his future earnings then its not such a foolish decision.

[bleedXblue]

The fact is, these kids are between a rock and a hard place. They know they only have 10 years to capitalize on their gifts. Do I think Kaiser wants his degree? Hell yes, but he also wants to make a living. If he sees little reason to believe that another year at Xavier will significantly increase his future earnings then its not such a foolish decision.

The kid isn't wasn't even close to being "all league" for crying out loud. He has improvement needed is every single facet of his game.........

[boozehound]

The fact is, these kids are between a rock and a hard place. They know they only have 10 years to capitalize on their gifts. Do I think Kaiser wants his degree? Hell yes, but he also wants to make a living. If he sees little reason to believe that another year at Xavier will significantly increase his future earnings then its not such a foolish decision.

The interesting thing is that Gates seems like a poster child for having a big opportunity to improve his stock by playing next year at Xavier. He had a pretty crappy season this year and as a result didn't play much. Next Year he would have the opportunity to play a major role in the offense and really show what he can do.

[Drew]

The kid isn't wasn't even close to being "all league" for crying out loud. He has improvement needed is every single facet of his game.........

No doubt, and he can get paid to improve those facets elsewhere.

[Drew]

The interesting thing is that Gates seems like a poster child for having a big opportunity to improve his stock by playing next year at Xavier. He had a pretty crappy season this year and as a result didn't play much. Next Year he would have the opportunity to play a major role in the offense and really show what he can do.

Agreed. I think this is ultimately a decision where he was just tired of waiting. We all thought he would have a breakout Sophomore year then the injury happened. Then last year it just never happened. I doubt he is happy with how things shook out but in the end it was purely a financial decision.

[bleedXblue]

No doubt, and he can get paid to improve those facets elsewhere.

Exactly who is going to "pay" this kid?

[xu95]

Exactly who is going to "pay" this kid?

He will definitely get picked up by some team overseas.

xu95

[bleedXblue]

He will definitely get picked up by some team overseas.

xu95

I cant wait to see the list of teams lining up to "pay" him.

[xu82]

I cant wait to see the list if teams lining up to "pay" him.

As my wife likes to say “well, aren’t you just a damn ray of sunshine?”

He’ll make money playing basketball somewhere. I still have a funny feeling there’s something important that we don’t know about this situation. Best of luck to Kaiser wherever he goes!

[bleedXblue]

As my wife likes to say “well, aren’t you just a damn ray of sunshine?”

He’ll make money playing basketball somewhere. I still have a funny feeling there’s something important that we don’t know about this situation. Best of luck to Kaiser wherever he goes!

Hard to be optimistic about a guy who averaged 7 PPG/4RPG last year deciding to forgo getting his degree and playing big minutes in a great league improving his game to get ready to hopefully play at the next level.

Agree that maybe something else is brewing........

[xukeith]

Hard to be optimistic about a guy who averaged 7 PPG/4RPG last year deciding to forgo getting his degree and playing big minutes in a great league improving his game to get ready to hopefully play at the next level.

Agree that maybe something else is brewing........

money. Get $40,000 to have fun and play bball. Do it for 7-10 years.

[Drew]

Hard to be optimistic about a guy who averaged 7 PPG/4RPG last year deciding to forgo getting his degree and playing big minutes in a great league improving his game to get ready to hopefully play at the next level.

Agree that maybe something else is brewing........

Did you ever consider that maybe Xavier wasn't getting the most out of him that some other team could? Guys with Kaiser's height+skillset are pretty unique, maybe Mack just didn't know how to utilize him properly.

[MHettel]

money. Get $40,000 to have fun and play bball. Do it for 7-10 years.

Thats a horrible decision. $40K per year? Is he going to live out of a cardboard box? What happens when it's all over for him? A 30 year old guy with no degree and no transerrable job skills is going to enter the workforce for the first time?

this is just stupid. he's not that good at basketball. Period. If kaiser gates can play in Europe, then so can 50% of the Big East players. And every other major conference for that matter. How many teams are IN europe? these guys can play for 10 or more years there, it's not like college where they are turning over the roster every 4 years at the longest.

I dont see kaiser gates making money playing basketball.

[XMuskieFTW]

money. Get $40,000 to have fun and play bball. Do it for 7-10 years.

more like 70k plus free housing for working 8 months a year. Tim Stainbrook played professionally last year. If he can do that and survive, Kaiser will be more than comfortable overseas.

[XU 87]

Did you ever consider that maybe Xavier wasn't getting the most out of him that some other team could? Guys with Kaiser's height+skillset are pretty unique, maybe Mack just didn't know how to utilize him properly.

What skill set are you referring to? He had athleticism, which made him a good defender. Offensively he could shoot threes, but that was about it. He didn't handle the ball well, wasn't a slasher by any means, and was too skinny to play post offense.

Bottom line- he's tall, athletic, but lacks some important basketball skills.

[xu koop scoop]

Kaiser Gates having a sex change and has been promised a Lottery Pick in the WNBA

[Lloyd Braun]

Wow lots of shade towards Kaiser.... how embarrassing.

He has potential and a lot of traits you can’t teach. Best of luck to him!

[xuwin]

If any college player grew up poor and has the opportunity to make money playing basketball in China or Europe or make $35,000 in for 5 months in G-League, I would not be surprised a lot of players wanting to go and make money. If i were in their shoes, it would be extremely tempting.

I would think a player with his track record would be wise to get his degree to fall back on when basketball ends.

[BCole4Life]

1) Kaiser Gates was infuriating. 6' 8" but was too hesitant to do anything, ANYTHING, more than catch-and-shoot three pointers. He played like friggen Brad Redford minus the ancillary production that type of player can give to a team with scorers.

2) Kaiser Gates is the latest kid to want to, rightfully, go get some money. This is totally fine and to be expected as the NCAA continues to show zero interest in acknowledging the broken system their running and other guys start to do the same thing. THe comfort level for this kind of departure is getting a bit warmer for college players.

This should not be about speculating the "bad advice people" in his ear It's about getting some money. I have no problems with it from a basketball standpoint. I do hope he takes some of what he earns professionally to get his degree.

[AviatorX]

Thats a horrible decision. $40K per year? Is he going to live out of a cardboard box? What happens when it's all over for him? A 30 year old guy with no degree and no transerrable job skills is going to enter the workforce for the first time?

this is just stupid. he's not that good at basketball. Period. If kaiser gates can play in Europe, then so can 50% of the Big East players. And every other major conference for that matter. How many teams are IN europe? these guys can play for 10 or more years there, it's not like college where they are turning over the roster every 4 years at the longest.

I dont see kaiser gates making money playing basketball.

40k a year in a cardboard box? How much do you think the average college graduate makes? I don't think Xavier is pumping out a ton of kids to Goldman Sachs at 160k a year.

[bleedXblue]

more like 70k plus free housing for working 8 months a year. Tim Stainbrook played professionally last year. If he can do that and survive, Kaiser will be more than comfortable overseas.

Very broad and sweeping assumption. Some of the mid to lower level European leagues pay very, very little. There is not a chance in hell Tim Stainbrook is making anything near 70K a year plus housing.

[xu82]

Very broad and sweeping assumption. Some of the mid to lower level European leagues pay very, very little. There is not a chance in hell Tim Stainbrook is making anything near 70K a year plus housing.

Do you have a source? Other than the dark cloud you share with Eyore? You may be correct, but like my sister-in-law, you speak as though your opinion is fact. I find her annoying.

[bleedXblue]

Do you have a source? Other than the dark cloud you share with Eyore? You may be correct, but like my sister-in-law, you speak as though your opinion is fact. I find her annoying.

I just make this shit up and hope someone doesn't prove me wrong. :)

There's plenty of info around the Euro leagues if you want to spend time trying to find it. Its mostly very vague and I think once you get past the top leagues/players in Europe it is very difficult to pinpoint salaries. I think a lot of people just make the assumption that guys can "go play in Europe" and make a nice living. Hell, maybe Kaiser really wants to tour the countryside and see the world. Good for him if he does.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Exactly who is going to "pay" this kid?

He will have numerous options.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Exactly who is going to "pay" this kid?

Do you know how many leagues there are that pay guys to play basketball? Again I know of DIII guys who had Kaiser's numbers who got paid to play professional basketball.

Not saying it will be for how much Kaiser wants/where he wants but he will have plenty of options.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If kaiser gates can play in Europe, then so can 50% of the Big East players.

Yes.

Well not just Europe, but yes.

[Drew]

Very broad and sweeping assumption. Some of the mid to lower level European leagues pay very, very little. There is not a chance in hell Tim Stainbrook is making anything near 70K a year plus housing.

"Average overseas players can get a $65,000 contract with ease. Depending on the league that players get into in Europe, salaries can start as high as $100,000. Not only is there a big discrepancy between the salaries, but the money made in Europe is typically tax free. The club oftentimes will pay your taxes to the country you are playing in. That American who is playing overseas may also receive credit with the United States government for paying their taxes. Further, most European clubs commonly pay for a player’s living expenses. That includes providing a player with a car and lodging. So the player in Europe can be saved from taxes and the more expensive living expenses."

http://sportsagentblog.com/2012/07/30/nba-d-league-vs-european-basketball-why-dont-more-players-go-to-europe/

And this article is 6 years old, so the numbers are likely conservative.

[GoMuskies]

Here's a link to an interesting series of articles on the George Mason players from 2006. I remember reading these articles when they came out, but they apparently only still exist on the linked forum. It's true that these guys can make some money overseas, but it's definitely not an easy life.

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=472516

[sirthought]

- $40k for someone right out of college is very good.

- There are TONS of teams and multiple leagues around the world. If you want to play it'll happen. I know a guy who only played baseball in HS. Didn't even play in college intramural. He made a pro team in Italy. They put him up with a family and paid for his travel.

- Getting as much as $40k is not a given. He may earn much less. Some players are even on contract and fight to get paid on time.

- Tim Stainbrook is playing in the 4th tier league, which is semi pro/am. Its about the experience and connections. He can still network and possibly land with a company, learn a foreign language, etc. Lots of living to experience thats not all about salary. I'm sure all the Xavier players love being able to experience this lifestyle that very few of their peers get the chance to do in their adult life.

- Gates doesn't even have a great shot at the G League in my opinion. Not at this stage. 300+ D1 programs. There are a ton of decent players trying to get a shot at playing pro every year. Not enough roster spots in that league.

[paulxu]

Maybe he's got what I hear all the time about...potential? Anyway, who really understands the NBA.

I just picked a team at random...Wizards.
Picked a player at random...Chris McCullough.
Somehow he's a PF at 6'9" and 215. He makes $1,471,382 a year.

He played part of 1 year at Syracuse. 16 games. Avg 9.3 pts.

In 3 years in the NBA he has played a total of 59 games. His 3 yr career average is 3.3 pts/game.

[bleedXblue]

- $40k for someone right out of college is very good.

- There are TONS of teams and multiple leagues around the world. If you want to play it'll happen. I know a guy who only played baseball in HS. Didn't even play in college intramural. He made a pro team in Italy. They put him up with a family and paid for his travel.

- Getting as much as $40k is not a given. He may earn much less. Some players are even on contract and fight to get paid on time.

- Tim Stainbrook is playing in the 4th tier league, which is semi pro/am. Its about the experience and connections. He can still network and possibly land with a company, learn a foreign language, etc. Lots of living to experience thats not all about salary. I'm sure all the Xavier players love being able to experience this lifestyle that very few of their peers get the chance to do in their adult life.

- Gates doesn't even have a great shot at the G League in my opinion. Not at this stage. 300+ D1 programs. There are a ton of decent players trying to get a shot at playing pro every year. Not enough roster spots in that league.

http://time.com/money/collection-post/3829776/heres-what-the-average-grad-makes-right-out-of-college/

Average is now over 50K.

And withing a 5-10 year period you should be making much more than that.

[Drew]

http://time.com/money/collection-post/3829776/heres-what-the-average-grad-makes-right-out-of-college/

Average is now over 50K.

And withing a 5-10 year period you should be making much more than that.

Kaiser wants to be a professional athlete, and I wish him success. Why can't you do the same?

[GoMuskies]

I don't blame him for wanting to be a professional athlete, but I wonder how close he is to getting his degree. It seems to me that if he's within a year of doing that, he should try to finish that up for free before going out and being a professional athlete given what seem to be his financial prospects as a professional athlete. Maybe we're wrong and he'll be making a quarter million in a year or two, but it just seems to me that in his situation the right play is to get that degree on someone else's dime and put the professional athlete goal on hold for a year. And I'd feel the same way even if he was transferring to Bellarmine to play his last year and finish his degree.

[bleedXblue]

I don't blame him for wanting to be a professional athlete, but I wonder how close he is to getting his degree. It seems to me that if he's within a year of doing that, he should try to finish that up for free before going out and being a professional athlete given what seem to be his financial prospects as a professional athlete. Maybe we're wrong and he'll be making a quarter million in a year or two, but it just seems to me that in his situation the right play is to get that degree on someone else's dime and put the professional athlete goal on hold for a year. And I'd feel the same way even if he was transferring to Bellarmine to play his last year and finish his degree.

Pretty much what I have been saying too. Get your degree, improve your game and go pro next year if you can.

I wouldn't have said the same thing last year about Tre b/c I think his prospects are (were) much, much better to make a lot of money playing basketball professionally.

[Lloyd Braun]

The window is small for playing pro ball for the majority of athletes. His degree (in sports management presumably) can wait as he is not going to use it, and it won’t take him long to complete if and when he wants to do that. This is not a difficult decision really, and the reason some are suggesting finishing his degree to miss a year of income is strictly because it is their opinion that he will not be a successful pro player. Kaiser will be just fine as long as he avoids the concussions.

[Lloyd Braun]

Oh, and where do you think he would improve his game most? In college while attending class, or on a professional team? The “improve your game in college” argument is absurd.

[bleedXblue]

Oh, and where do you think he would improve his game most? In college while attending class, or on a professional team? The “improve your game in college” argument is absurd.

Is it your opinion that it's absurd or do you have factual information?

[Lloyd Braun]

Is it your opinion that it's absurd or do you have factual information?

That’s a fact. If you spend twice as much time doing something you will improve more.

[JTG]

It seems as though no one ever found the right button to push with Gates. I hope Steele is one of those guys that instinctively know what button to push to get the most out of players.

[Xville]

Oh, and where do you think he would improve his game most? In college while attending class, or on a professional team? The “improve your game in college” argument is absurd.

How is it absurd? Let's ask a different question...improve his game most in college or in a third tier league in Europe or some other place around the world where gates will probably end up?

Gates can do whatever he wants at this point, hes an adult and can make his own choices. However, if I was advising him, I'd say stay one more year, improve your prospects (even for europe), and enjoy.

For Tre last year, I would have advised him to leave because he wasnt going to improve his pro prospects anymore and go get your money while you can in Europe.

Not going to fault anyone for leaving, but in my opinion, gates is making a stupid decision. However havijg said that, who knows maybe his family is in financial trouble or he hates school or is in deep academic trouble. Who knows

[Xville]

That’s a fact. If you spend twice as much time doing something you will improve more.

Not always the case. I could play golf twice as much as I do now and I'd still suck because I'm not getting proper instruction. Do you think third or fourth tier coaches in Europe or wherever are better instructors than division 1 coaches?

[Lloyd Braun]

Not always the case. I could play golf twice as much as I do now and I'd still suck because I'm not getting proper instruction. Do you think third or fourth tier coaches in Europe or wherever are better instructors than division 1 coaches?

The vacuumed scenario you describe is not accurate and clearly you have no idea what happens or where they train when these guys go pro. I’m not saying Kaiser will be a good pro but if he wants to maximize his chances he should leave.

Edit: also if you played golf twice as much you absolutely would get better regardless of instruction. Your golf game and Kaiser’s basketball game I would guess are also not equivalent comparisons.

[Mrs. Garrett]

If you told me 20 years ago that I could make the same amount of money to play basketball overseas or stay home and sit at a desk all day as an accountant. I'm picking basketball every time.

[bleedXblue]

That’s a fact. If you spend twice as much time doing something you will improve more.

One of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted here.

[Lloyd Braun]

One of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted here.

Care to elaborate on this opinion? Putting more hours working on your craft whatever it may be will lead to greater results. As a student athlete there are only so many hours available for basketball. As a professional athlete, there are only so many hours for things that are NOT basketball.

[Xville]

The vacuumed scenario you describe is not accurate and clearly you have no idea what happens or where they train when these guys go pro. I’m not saying Kaiser will be a good pro but if he wants to maximize his chances he should leave.

Edit: also if you played golf twice as much you absolutely would get better regardless of instruction. Your golf game and Kaiser’s basketball game I would guess are also not equivalent comparisons.

Actually it's very accurate, as accurate as you think your opinion is absolute fact

All pro leagues are not the same, especially at the lower levels which is where kaiser is going to start. For you to believe he would get better instruction and get better in that league than in college is opinion, not fact.

You stated that it is fact that the more you do something the more you will improve, that's not true in every case.

[Lloyd Braun]

Would you like a scientific study that shows if you shoot twice as many jump shots you are almost always going to improve your jumpshot? Then would it be a fact for you? This is not rocket surgery here.

[XMuskieFTW]

I'm not sure where this assumption that Kaiser is going to be in some 4th division league in Estonia is coming from. He's had a very similar career(probably more skilled but slightly more inconsistent) to Justin Martin. Jmart started his career in 2nd division Germany. He'd probably be making about 5k a month over there plus free housing/transportation/etc in a similar league. It's extremely easy to live as a 22 year old off 5k a month when you have very few expenses. And he's not going to be playing the local YMCA kids. He's going to be honing his skill against former college players and other pros while getting to train significantly more time.

He could come back to college, have a great year, and go to Italy and make 150k a year. He could also go to a middle division European team, have a great year while making 50k and learning more about the professional game, and go to Italy and make 150k a year.

[Drew]

One of the most ignorant things I have ever seen posted here.

Can I sign up for wherever you work? I can only imagine what rigorous discipline actually makes you worse the more you do it.

[Xville]

Would you like a scientific study that shows if you shoot twice as many jump shots you are almost always going to improve your jumpshot? Then would it be a fact for you? This is not rocket surgery here.

In this specific case, this may be true. However, you applied it to everything which again is not fact.

[xu koop scoop]

I wonder how many of these players get into a foreign culture with language differences & don't pan out because of cultural/speaking differences. Also, how are these foreign leagues managing to pay these players. Paid attendance seems to be primary or do they also get payouts from TV/ Radio revenue.

[Lloyd Braun]

In this specific case, this may be true. However, you applied it to everything which again is not fact.

Since you fail to apply context to discussions it is difficult to proceed. However...I would really like to hear of an example where practicing more does not improve that particular skill. I’m fairly certain you just like to argue for the sake of it. There’s an entire global warming thread for that, you may find that rewarding.

[Xville]

Since you fail to apply context to discussions it is difficult to proceed. However...I would really like to hear of an example where practicing more does not improve that particular skill. I’m fairly certain you just like to argue for the sake of it. There’s an entire global warming thread for that, you may find that rewarding.

Only with proper instruction does practicing more lead to better results, that was my entire initial point and why I mentioned golf. Just because you do something more and more does not always lead toward positive resultw... you could be practicing and developing bad habits etc.

So again you stating its fact that he would get better in a second third or fourth tier league vs college is not fact...it is your opinion. The instruction in college may be much better than in that situation.

This whole argument started with you stating "improving your game in college argument" is absurd, which is in and of itself is absurd.

[XU 87]

Only with proper instruction does practicing more lead to better results,

So all that time spent in the gym by our players practicing jump shots, alone, without anyone instructing them, was a waste of time?

Who knew.

Apparently all coaches at all levels in all sports should be telling their players, "I don't want you practicing on your own. It won't help, and you may get worse."

[X Factor]

I want to know why a thread about Kaiser Gates, who averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds in his career, is 11 pages long???

Honestly, I don't ever see Kaiser doing much professionally, wherever that may be. He seems too fragile emotionally. Being thousands of miles away from his friends and family doesn't see like an ideal situation for him.

These European leagues can be shady as heck too.

[XU 87]

I want to know why a thread about Kaiser Gates, who averaged 5 points and 4 rebounds in his career, is 11 pages long???



Because he's a Xavier player, who started much of last year, who is leaving early, and some people would like to discuss this?

[Xville]

So all that time spent in the gym by our players practicing jump shots, alone, without anyone instructing them, was a waste of time?

Who knew.

Apparently all coaches at all levels in all sports should be telling their players, "I don't want you practicing on your own. It won't help, and you may get worse."

Come on. Just come on. They are practicing the correct things taught to them by their coaches.

[XU 87]

Come on. Just come on. They are practicing the correct things taught to them by their coaches.


What you are arguing is that every kid in the history of sports who has improved his game through practice only did so if he also had proper coaching. It's literally impossible to improve your skills through practice unless someone is also simultaneously coaching you 'correctly". In fact, it's literally impossible for someone to practice on his own and improve skills, like dribbling with his off hand, without proper associated coaching.

Let's make a bet. We will find two random 16 year old kids who don't run track but run the same 2 mile time. I'll pick one kid, give him no instruction, and tell him to run 5 miles per day for a month. You tell your kid to do no training or practice. Then we'll have them run two miles after 30 days. I'll bet you my kid wins. I would even give you odds.

P.S. Maybe you should give me odds. After all, practice won't help my kid get better, and in fact, he may get worse due to bad habits.

[Drew]

What you are arguing is that every kid in the history of sports who has improved his game through practice only did so if he also had proper coaching. It's literally impossible to improve your skills through practice unless someone is also simultaneously coaching you 'correctly". In fact, it's literally impossible for someone to practice on his own and improve skills, like dribbling with his off hand, without proper associated coaching.

Let's make a bet. We will find two random 16 year old kids who don't run track but run the same 2 mile time. I'll pick one kid, give him no instruction, and tell him to run 5 miles per day for a month. You tell your kid to do no training or practice. Then we'll have them run two miles after 30 days. I'll bet you my kid wins. I would even give you odds.

P.S. Maybe you should give me odds. After all, practice won't help my kid get better, and in fact, he may get worse due to bad habits.

This is dumb.

[XU 87]

This is dumb.

And I think your post is stupid.

[Xville]

What you are arguing is that every kid in the history of sports who has improved his game through practice only did so if he also had proper coaching. It's literally impossible to improve your skills through practice unless someone is also simultaneously coaching you 'correctly". In fact, it's literally impossible for someone to practice on his own and improve skills, like dribbling with his off hand, without proper associated coaching.

Let's make a bet. We will find two random 16 year old kids who don't run track but run the same 2 mile time. I'll pick one kid, give him no instruction, and tell him to run 5 miles per day for a month. You tell your kid to do no training or practice. Then we'll have them run two miles after 30 days. I'll bet you my kid wins. I would even give you odds.

P.S. Maybe you should give me odds. After all, practice won't help my kid get better, and in fact, he may get worse due to bad habits.

So in your mind I was arguing that instruction and no practice is better than practice and no instruction. That is what you are trying to say here with your bs scenario, and that's not what I was saying at all.

I never said anything about "simultaneously" by the way...that was made up by you.

[XU 87]

So in your mind I was arguing that instruction and no practice is better than practice and no instruction. That is what you are trying to say here with your bs scenario, and that's not what I was saying at all.

I never said anything about "simultaneously" by the way...that was made up by you.

No, you are arguing that "Only with proper instruction does practicing more lead to better results." (That's a direct quote.)

And you are further arguing that without proper instruction, practice can actually make you worse by developing bad habits.

And in my mind your arguments are absurd.

[Xville]

Nevermind... I really dont care.

[xu82]

What you are arguing is that every kid in the history of sports who has improved his game through practice only did so if he also had proper coaching. It's literally impossible to improve your skills through practice unless someone is also simultaneously coaching you 'correctly". In fact, it's literally impossible for someone to practice on his own and improve skills, like dribbling with his off hand, without proper associated coaching.

Let's make a bet. We will find two random 16 year old kids who don't run track but run the same 2 mile time. I'll pick one kid, give him no instruction, and tell him to run 5 miles per day for a month. You tell your kid to do no training or practice. Then we'll have them run two miles after 30 days. I'll bet you my kid wins. I would even give you odds.

P.S. Maybe you should give me odds. After all, practice won't help my kid get better, and in fact, he may get worse due to bad habits.

I’m not 16, but can I volunteer to be the guy who doesn’t do anything? You’re theory should still hold up.

[Lloyd Braun]

158 days til Musketeer Madness!

[xuwin]

If he's being told he can make money somewhere, he should go make money somewhere.

And if that doesn't work he has no degree to fall back on. One more year would have solidified his future one way or the other.

[XUGRAD80]

And if that doesn't work he has no degree to fall back on. One more year would have solidified his future one way or the other.


A college degree is NO LONGER a guarantee of either getting a good job, or of being successful in it. In addition, we here in internet land actually have little or no real knowledge of how close he is to getting that degree, or how much he liked or disliked even going to school. Or just what his family/personal needs may actually be. Lots of people become very successful without a degree, and many people with them are failures. No doubt that for many people a college degree to “fall back on” is a good thing, but not for everyone. In any case it’s HIS life, and it’s his personal business too. We should reject commenting on the personal lives of the players and coaches and stick to how it effects the team on the floor only.

[bleedXblue]

A college degree is NO LONGER a guarantee of either getting a good job, or of being successful in it. In addition, we here in internet land actually have little or no real knowledge of how close he is to getting that degree, or how much he liked or disliked even going to school. Or just what his family/personal needs may actually be. Lots of people become very successful without a degree, and many people with them are failures. No doubt that for many people a college degree to “fall back on” is a good thing, but not for everyone. In any case it’s HIS life, and it’s his personal business too. We should reject commenting on the personal lives of the players and coaches and stick to how it effects the team on the floor only.

Internet/moral authority police warning!!!

Geesh.

Players have to take and pass 12 credit hours a semester to be eligible to play D1 athletics.

So, at the very least he's completed 1/2 of his education to this point.

Very likely he's 60-70% of the way there.

All xuwin is saying is that a degree to fall back on is a very, very nice thing to have.

Of course, you have to show up for work, do your job and and contribute in order to be successful in anything that you do.

[beatuc]

This board makes me shake my head sometimes. Would it be okay if your kid decides to drop out of college only to make $35,000/yr, and only needing one more year to graduate? I would hope not. Yet, some on here defend players every time this happens saying they should go make money. It's not a wise decision any way you look at it.

[Juice]

And if that doesn't work he has no degree to fall back on. One more year would have solidified his future one way or the other.

How could possible go back and get his degree? What an absurd thought?

Jameer Nelson will graduate on May 19th. http://www.sjuhawks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31200&ATCLID=211715038

[D-West & PO-Z]

This board makes me shake my head sometimes. Would it be okay if your kid decides to drop out of college only to make $35,000/yr, and only needing one more year to graduate? I would hope not. Yet, some on here defend players every time this happens saying they should go make money. It's not a wise decision any way you look at it.

1. Depends on what the degree is in, some are pretty worthless and $35,000 (Kaiser probably will make more than that overseas, especially with the housing and taxes paid for) is pretty good for some degrees. Although I would refuse to allow my son or daughter to go to a school like XU, or any school really, and get one of the million dumb degrees with absolutely no career path, so no I probably wouldnt let my child drop out with one year left.

2. We dont have all the information, there could be many things/factors we dont know about that makes this a good decision. Maybe he or hhis agent have already made contact with overseas teams who have expressed interest in an amount of money that makes this very worth it. Maybe he wasnt doing well in school and one more year wouldnt get him to graduation anyway. Maybe he hates school. Maybe he loves school but he wants to make as much money as possible now playing basketball and he has a solid plan in place to finish his degree in offseason or after is playing career. Who knows?

I'm not prentending to know if this is the best decision for him or not. It's a shocking decision because I dont think any of us saw it coming, but that doesn mean it is bad or wrong or even he got bad advice. The times have completely changed where a player comes out early isnt drafted and it is automatically a bad decision. So many leagues, so much money out there all over the world for guys with basketball talent. The players are much more savvy to that.

What makes me shake my head is people claiming to know what the best decision is for someone who they dont know, who is in a situation where they have none of the details.

[D-West & PO-Z]

One more year would have solidified his future one way or the other.

Really? How do you know? Do you know for sure, one more year he would have graduated? What was his major? Is it something that would really solidify his future?

Do you realize how many people with college degrees work in jobs that do not require college degrees?

[Xuperman]

Here's a thought, we lose Gates and get Welage.....basically the same cog in the machine. Heck, I can argue that X has IMPROVED with Welage as the stretch 4. That would be a FAR better debate than arguing about a young man's life decision.

[xu95]

Here's a thought, we lose Gates and get Welage.....basically the same cog in the machine. Heck, I can argue that X has IMPROVED with Welage as the stretch 4. That would be a FAR better debate than arguing about a young man's life decision.

Offensively yes, defensively no. Gates was going to be our best defender. That is where he will be missed the most.

I do think record wise though, switching those two out probably won't change the final tally.

xu95

[UCGRAD4X]

158 days til Musketeer Madness!

One of the more intelligent posts in this thread.

So, should we start practicing our drinking and reveling now so we will be better at it in 157 days?

[UCGRAD4X]

Offensively yes, defensively no. Gates was going to be our best defender. That is where he will be missed the most.

I do think record wise though, switching those two out probably won't change the final tally.

xu95

It would depend on which Gates was going to show up this year.

Looking at last year and knowing (now) of some level of disillusionment with...whatever...chances were not good.

It also would depend on his practicing habits.

I think your point is a valid one.

[Xuperman]

Offensively yes, defensively no. Gates was going to be our best defender. That is where he will be missed the most.

And there lies the beginning of my pro-Welage position. Tenacity/speed/effort will most certainly be our calling card on defense. Most here seem to be most concerned with a reliable threat from distance....I am hoping Welage will start, log 25 mpg and come close to his SJSU production.

[XU 87]

I think Welage will definitely help on offense and be a bit of a liability on defense.

[Xuperman]

I think Welage will definitely help on offense and be a bit of a liability on defense.

Maybe, but KG could not stay on the floor long enough for that to matter because he disappeared in the offense and there was no indication that would change. Last rodeo for RW on a great team in a big time conference. That will most certainly yield max effort from him.

[BigMoeMusketeer]

He is leaving because his dad thought he was the best player on the team last year and was vastly underused (and, mis-cast in his role). This is Larry Austin, take II. Dad has an over-inflated view of kid's abilities. Xavier has known he was leaving for quite a while, that is why the San Jose State kid was so important.

My prediction (guess) is he'll be living back with his parents after getting homesick in Israel (or some other lower league) by Christmas.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Depth and what will happen if there are injuries are probably the biggest concerns.

Also that potential that the light turned on for Kaiser and he had a breakout senior year like so many previous X players, most recently James Farr.

If James Farr would have left X after his junior year most posters would have said similar things about him not being a big loss, he never put it together, he was too inconsistent, etc. We all know how that turned out for Big James his senior year.

Jr yr: 4.2 pts, 5.3 rbds, 42% FG, 46.9% FT
Sr yr: 10.7 pts, 7.8 rbds, 54.5% FG, 72.8% FT

[whopper]

So interesting. I will miss Kaiser and the synergy I saw at times. I love(d) Sean and Karen but now we have Hankins. It looks like he can play 4 on occasion as has a mid range game. Hard to tell against Div2 comp but looks more athletic. Could he be a Welch on UCLA type? Welage looks good but any youtube can be edited to look good but I see teams like Nevada and St Mary's so I know he can play. Could he be a Struss? Castin looks good also, a jack of all trades and his line against nova(a 15 pt loss and nova played zero scrubs) was 10-6 and 6 with no turnovers. Sometimes I wonder if last year we had too many options; the development of Naj hurt Kaiser the 3 centers at times stepped on each other. We will have to dance with what brung us this year.

[MHettel]

How could possible go back and get his degree? What an absurd thought?

Jameer Nelson will graduate on May 19th. http://www.sjuhawks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31200&ATCLID=211715038

There is a reason that this is newsworthy. it's becasue it fucking NEWS when it actually happens.

Also, Nelson made millions in the NBA. He can carve out time to work on his degree. Imagaine a guy in KGs position, headed to Slovakia to play in the shadow of an old nuclear reactor and making 42K per year. Meets a lovely eastern european girl and has a coupel kids with her. Plays until he's 32, making a total of 700K over 10 years. gets injured an has to retire. Now what? Just focus on getting that degree so he can enter the workforce? Ok, sure. like LIFE wont get in the way of that.

i dont have ANY stats whatsoever, but my guess is that less that 5% of guys that leave college early to pursue a professional sports career actually return to school and finish.

[MHettel]

Depth and what will happen if there are injuries are probably the biggest concerns.

Also that potential that the light turned on for Kaiser and he had a breakout senior year like so many previous X players, most recently James Farr.

If James Farr would have left X after his junior year most posters would have said similar things about him not being a big loss, he never put it together, he was too inconsistent, etc. We all know how that turned out for Big James his senior year.

Jr yr: 4.2 pts, 5.3 rbds, 42% FG, 46.9% FT
Sr yr: 10.7 pts, 7.8 rbds, 54.5% FG, 72.8% FT

Farr situation had circumstances that were out of his control. the presence of Stainbrook meant that Farr needed to play a little further from the basket as a stretch 4. Once the 5 position became available, Farr made the switch and flourished as a inside guy.

Had nothign to do with Farr's improvement, and everythign to do with the opportunity that was completely out of his control.

Kaiser faced no such situation, and frankly could be viewed as the opposite. He lost his starting PF job last year to Naji, who is actually more of a SF.

[D-West & PO-Z]

There is a reason that this is newsworthy. it's becasue it fucking NEWS when it actually happens.

Also, Nelson made millions in the NBA. He can carve out time to work on his degree. Imagaine a guy in KGs position, headed to Slovakia to play in the shadow of an old nuclear reactor and making 42K per year. Meets a lovely eastern european girl and has a coupel kids with her. Plays until he's 32, making a total of 700K over 10 years. gets injured an has to retire. Now what? Just focus on getting that degree so he can enter the workforce? Ok, sure. like LIFE wont get in the way of that.

i dont have ANY stats whatsoever, but my guess is that less that 5% of guys that leave college early to pursue a professional sports career actually return to school and finish.

It isnt newsworthy because a guy who left early did it, its newsworthy because a guy who left early and made millions and is still in the NBA did it.

If Kaiser did this in 10 years, there wouldnt be a press release. Unless he goes on to have a much more successful career than we all think.

[Caf]

What is the point of this discussion? It's hard enough to know what's best for yourself and now we have people proclaiming what's best for someone else?

Playing NCAA basketball is a gambit. Maybe he can make more money after another year of college ball. Maybe not. He can definitely make money playing basketball this year. That's the dilemma and decision all of these players face. Him and the people in his camp are aware of all of this and made a decision. What is there to discuss?

[markchal]

Depth is gonna be a huge concern next year. We have what...8 players? The two freshmen aren't supposed to contribute much next year, right? And we were definitely lucky this year when it came to injuries and staying healthy.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Walter isn’t expected to contribute much this year. James on the other hand, especially with Gates out of the mix, should be in line for minutes next year. He looks physically ready to contribute, body-wise, so it’ll be more about the learning curve and getting comfortable with the level of competition. I believe that puts us at 9.

QG
Paul
Welage
Naji
Rique
______
Harden
Castlin
James
Hankins

+ Walter, who, according to Shannon Russell’s interview on The Athletic, needs to be ready to contribute, per coaches. We are definitely thinnest at the 3/4, and it will be interesting to see if there’s anything we can do to fix that.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Farr situation had circumstances that were out of his control. the presence of Stainbrook meant that Farr needed to play a little further from the basket as a stretch 4. Once the 5 position became available, Farr made the switch and flourished as a inside guy.

Had nothign to do with Farr's improvement, and everythign to do with the opportunity that was completely out of his control.

Kaiser faced no such situation, and frankly could be viewed as the opposite. He lost his starting PF job last year to Naji, who is actually more of a SF.

Yeah I am sure losing our two best scorers who both played some 3 and, one played 3/4, wile Kaiser plays the 3/4 wouldnt have opened up any opportunity for Kaiser.

And your take on Farr and it being out of his control is revisionist history.

[MHettel]

Yeah I am sure losing our two best scorers who both played some 3 and, one played 3/4, wile Kaiser plays the 3/4 wouldnt have opened up any opportunity for Kaiser.

And your take on Farr and it being out of his control is revisionist history.

What the hell are you talking about? Revisionist history? huh?

his role changed and he did alot better.

[MHettel]

Maybe he can make more money after another year of college ball. Maybe not. He can definitely make money playing basketball this year.

Defend this statement. For sure he could make money playing next year, but the following year is no such guarantee? Why?

he sure as hell cant play any worse if he were to stay in school. And by the sounds of it, there are infinite available opportunities to play professional basketball. No tryouts, not nothing. Just sign up at the local Y and you are IN. Dont forget to tell kaiser that his mom needs to sign up to work at the concession stand at least twice.

[MHettel]

It isnt newsworthy because a guy who left early did it, its newsworthy because a guy who left early and made millions and is still in the NBA did it.

If Kaiser did this in 10 years, there wouldnt be a press release. Unless he goes on to have a much more successful career than we all think.

Again. WTF are you even saying?

NOBODY GOES BACK TO COLLEGE TO FINISH THEIR DEGREE. EVER. ITS FUCKING MORONIC TO LEAVE COLLEGE TO PURSUE A SUBPAR WAGE PLAYING LOW LEVEL PRO SPORTS.

ITS JUST FUCKING STUPID. Get a degree. Then go play. Or, better yet, get a real job and join a rec league.

[XMuskieFTW]

Apparently people haven't heard of an entry level job. Dee Davis went to Slovenia and probably didn't make a ton, balled out, and now is making 6 figs in the German league. Kaiser can go to 2nd division France, make 50k, have a great season, then make 100k the next year. He could come back to college, make nothing, have a great season, then make 100k next year.

Why the hell would he stay in school? For some degree that won't help him play basketball that he can come back to X and get at any time?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Again. WTF are you even saying?

NOBODY GOES BACK TO COLLEGE TO FINISH THEIR DEGREE. EVER. ITS FUCKING MORONIC TO LEAVE COLLEGE TO PURSUE A SUBPAR WAGE PLAYING LOW LEVEL PRO SPORTS.

ITS JUST FUCKING STUPID. Get a degree. Then go play. Or, better yet, get a real job and join a rec league.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/sports/basketball/06nba.html

"Nearly 100 players went back to college in the off-season.."

This article is from 2009, the NBA that off season had nearly 100 players taking classes in college. :laugh:

[D-West & PO-Z]

Farr situation had circumstances that were out of his control. the presence of Stainbrook meant that Farr needed to play a little further from the basket as a stretch 4. Once the 5 position became available, Farr made the switch and flourished as a inside guy.

Had nothign to do with Farr's improvement, and everythign to do with the opportunity that was completely out of his control.

Kaiser faced no such situation, and frankly could be viewed as the opposite. He lost his starting PF job last year to Naji, who is actually more of a SF.


Defend this statement. For sure he could make money playing next year, but the following year is no such guarantee? Why?

he sure as hell cant play any worse if he were to stay in school. And by the sounds of it, there are infinite available opportunities to play professional basketball. No tryouts, not nothing. Just sign up at the local Y and you are IN. Dont forget to tell kaiser that his mom needs to sign up to work at the concession stand at least twice.

Was Kaiser going to get better or not staying one season? Which is it? Apparently losing two players, who were the leading scorers, who play positions he plays wasnt going to give him more opportunity.

[GoMuskies]

Why the hell would he stay in school? For some degree that won't help him play basketball that he can come back to X and get at any time?

Because he can get it for free if he stays another year. Or he can go make $40k and then come back later and pay $40k to get his degree? Just doesn't seem like the right move economically from my perspective. But it's not up to me.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Again. WTF are you even saying?

NOBODY GOES BACK TO COLLEGE TO FINISH THEIR DEGREE. EVER. ITS FUCKING MORONIC TO LEAVE COLLEGE TO PURSUE A SUBPAR WAGE PLAYING LOW LEVEL PRO SPORTS.

ITS JUST FUCKING STUPID. Get a degree. Then go play. Or, better yet, get a real job and join a rec league.

You sound super butt hurt about a 21 year old you dont know making a decision that you know nothing about, that has nothing to do with your life except making your team a less talented or deep.

I get having an opinion about the issue, but the ferocity that some people lash out at former X players who leave early when they dont agree is just weird to me. To be writing in all caps and insisting his decision is "fucking moronic" and "fucking stupid" and to insist wrongly he will essentially be playing rec league, is again weird.

Literally the only reason can be is because you are mad it effects a team you cheer for. Like a jaded X girlfriend.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Because he can get it for free if he stays another year. Or he can go make $40k and then come back later and pay $40k to get his degree? Just doesn't seem like the right move economically from my perspective. But it's not up to me.

I could be wrong but I thought this came up before and it was determined XU (and most schools) let their former full ride athletes come back and finish their degree free of charge.

I know UK does that, as Cal has mentioned that several times that it is a lifetime scholarship or something like that.

[94GRAD]

Because he can get it for free if he stays another year. Or he can go make $40k and then come back later and pay $40k to get his degree? Just doesn't seem like the right move economically from my perspective. But it's not up to me.

Xavier's Academic Advisor tweeted good luck to Kaiser and told him he was welcomed back whenever he wanted to finish his degree(presumedly for free).

[GoMuskies]

If he can get his degree for free later, that changes things a bit. But I still prefer to get your degree when you're close. It's a lot harder to come back and do it than to just get it done "on schedule". And he's not a guy that's likely to make so much money playing basketball that he won't need a degree.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I believe most schools let their players return to get their degree for free. With the academic progress scores, I would imagine schools want them to pass.


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[MHettel]

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/sports/basketball/06nba.html

"Nearly 100 players went back to college in the off-season.."

This article is from 2009, the NBA that off season had nearly 100 players taking classes in college. :laugh:

Relevant how? Kaiser aint no NBA player. Those guys have money and time to kill in the summer. Find me a stat about all the guys who left early and flamed out.

[MHettel]

I believe most schools let their players return to get their degree for free. With the academic progress scores, I would imagine schools want them to pass.


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Does it count against their scholarship limit? serious question. it should.

[GoMuskies]

Does it count against their scholarship limit? serious question. it should.

Of course not. A school can give scholarships to anyone it damned well feels like so long as they are not actively participating in intercollegiate athletics.

[MHettel]

You sound super butt hurt about a 21 year old you dont know making a decision that you know nothing about, that has nothing to do with your life except making your team a less talented or deep.

I get having an opinion about the issue, but the ferocity that some people lash out at former X players who leave early when they dont agree is just weird to me. To be writing in all caps and insisting his decision is "fucking moronic" and "fucking stupid" and to insist wrongly he will essentially be playing rec league, is again weird.

Literally the only reason can be is because you are mad it effects a team you cheer for. Like a jaded X girlfriend.

I couldn't care less about Kaiser leaving. His absense will have no impact on next years team. Kind of like his presence had no impact on this years team.

It's just dumb to get this close to a degree and bail out for what is sure to be a short lived minor league basketball career.

That degree (which means EVERYTHING) is somethign he's gonna need for the last 35 years or so of his career. He's one year away from it (or should be) and decides to walk away from it. That is teh defintiion of short-sightedness.

What I dont understand is why there are so many people that rush to his defense. Really, it's just cause he went to XU, and alot of you guys would defend ANY player for ANY action based on that. I'm criticizing the hell out of this decision in SPITE of the fact that he went to XU.

Everytime I read any defense of this stupid decision, all I see is "you cant say bad things about our players!" It's always this way.

Kaiser has now entered my Mt Rushmore of Xavier knuckleheads. Myles Davis, Justin Martin, Jeff Robinson, and Kaiser Gates.

[XMuskieFTW]

I couldn't care less about Kaiser leaving. His absense will have no impact on next years team. Kind of like his presence had no impact on this years team.

It's just dumb to get this close to a degree and bail out for what is sure to be a short lived minor league basketball career.

That degree (which means EVERYTHING) is somethign he's gonna need for the last 35 years or so of his career. He's one year away from it (or should be) and decides to walk away from it. That is teh defintiion of short-sightedness.

What I dont understand is why there are so many people that rush to his defense. Really, it's just cause he went to XU, and alot of you guys would defend ANY player for ANY action based on that. I'm criticizing the hell out of this decision in SPITE of the fact that he went to XU.

Everytime I read any defense of this stupid decision, all I see is "you cant say bad things about our players!" It's always this way.

Kaiser has now entered my Mt Rushmore of Xavier knuckleheads. Myles Davis, Justin Martin, Jeff Robinson, and Kaiser Gates.

lol. What does he need a sports management degree for that his collegiate and overseas playing can't provide? Most basketball players get into basketball in some sense after their playing days. You don't need a degree for that and that's probably his plan.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Relevant how?

See.....




NOBODY GOES BACK TO COLLEGE TO FINISH THEIR DEGREE. EVER.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I couldn't care less about Kaiser leaving.

Interesting way of showing it.....

[gladdenguy]

Bottom line........Kaiser and his family are both finished with college basketball. We don't want him back if that is where he stands. That would not be good for Travis, Xavier, or Kaiser and his family.

Good luck to him.

[MHettel]

Most basketball players get into basketball in some sense after their playing days.

That’s the third utterly nonsense statement underlying the decision in this thread.

1. There are apparently limitless well paying opportunities to play pro basketball everywhere but in the US.
2. College atheletes that leave early before graduation typically go back and finish their degree.
3. Most college b-ball players stay involved in basketball to the point where it’s their career in some form.

So, while there are certainly examples of each of these situations, the frequency of the each is so overstated that it’s laughable to use as a defense for this moronic decision.

[Xuperman]

Back to this tired back and forth? The young man's personal family business is NO business of anyone here. I tried to highjack this thread and give it a positive vibe touting Mr. Welage as a improvement replacing KG, but the life advisers here will not let it go.....please stop....:whack:

[MHettel]

Back to this tired back and forth? The young man's personal family business is NO business of anyone here. I tried to highjack this thread and give it a positive vibe touting Mr. Welage as a improvement replacing KG, but the life advisers here will not let it go.....please stop....:whack:

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Can’t make a realistic comment about a very dumb decision made by someone who once wore an XU uniform.

Remove the XU connection, and just look at this decision. Take off the rose colored glasses. You’ll be shock d at what you may see

[Lloyd Braun]

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Can’t make a realistic comment about a very dumb decision made by someone who once wore an XU uniform.

Remove the XU connection, and just look at this decision. Take off the rose colored glasses. You’ll be shock d at what you may see

The same could be said for you and your Kaiser hating. You hate Kaiser. You have always hated Kaiser. You think Kaiser sucks at basketball. In fact, I could say that you may have an obsession with hating Kaiser... check your post history. More than half of your last 50 posts are about Kaiser, all negative. Remember when you compared him to Jeff Robinson? How much energy have you wasted on hating Kaiser? If you want people to take off the “rose colored” glasses maybe you should ease up on the shade you’re directing at Kaiser.

[Xville]

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Can’t make a realistic comment about a very dumb decision made by someone who once wore an XU uniform.

Remove the XU connection, and just look at this decision. Take off the rose colored glasses. You’ll be shock d at what you may see

Would I have advised him to leave based on what I know of his basketball skill and his stats? No. But like you I am assuming, you dont know Gates and his reasons for leaving. He may have been flunking out, he may have hated school, he may be becoming a baby daddy who knows.

For you to say 100 percent that it's a dumb decision without knowing all the factors is in itself pretty dumb.

For someone who says you dont care what gates does, you have a really weird way of showing it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Can’t make a realistic comment about a very dumb decision made by someone who once wore an XU uniform.

Remove the XU connection, and just look at this decision. Take off the rose colored glasses. You’ll be shock d at what you may see



The same could be said for you and your Kaiser hating. You hate Kaiser. You have always hated Kaiser. You think Kaiser sucks at basketball. In fact, I could say that you may have an obsession with hating Kaiser... check your post history. More than half of your last 50 posts are about Kaiser, all negative. Remember when you compared him to Jeff Robinson? How much energy have you wasted on hating Kaiser? If you want people to take off the “rose colored” glasses maybe you should ease up on the shade you’re directing at Kaiser.

"Couldn't care less"........

[xu koop scoop]

The Gates were open, the Gates have closed. Move on

[flatspat]

Amen

[Xuperman]

Just go to sports-reference.com and compare KG v RW statistically.....it will brighten your day!

[smileyy]

Just go to sports-reference.com and compare KG v RW statistically.....it will brighten your day!

Kevin Garnett is pwning Ryan Welage.

Kevin Garnett should never have gone directly to the NBA. </sarcasm> actually, he's a great example of a player who *should* go directly to the NBA. If he can play 30mpg (regardless of how good the team is), he's ready for the NBA.

Am I derailing the thread enough?

[Xuperman]

Yeah, every time Kaiser's initials are used in a post someone mentions Garnett! He is so insignificant to THIS website to bother bringing him up.

[smileyy]

So that's a no; its not enough to derail this thread. Damn.

[GoMuskies]

So that's a no; its not enough to derail this thread. Damn.

So how about that Iran deal that Donald Trump and Kanye West got us out of? Almost as exciting as our coming summit with North Korea.

Will Matt Harvey save the Reds?

What was paul's favorite bourbon in Ireland (though I think this is a trick question)?

Can Welage jump off one foot?

Did Tardy Turtle ever poop? And how did an immobile three-point line hanging gunner like him wear out a hip anyway?

What did Kristi Mack Ono (credit to nuts4xu) wear to the Derby?

College athletes are overcompensated.

The stock market and shit.

I've heard some new Imagine Dragons that seems pretty interesting.

Goldstar for sure.

This Big East is shitty. Xavier should go independent.

How about your first place Cleveland Indians!

Sure seems cool in my office today. Prepare for the new ice age.

The Bengals.

Some long-ass thread about soccer for some reason.

Those should be a start to get this off-track.

[bleedXblue]

I don't think any player after graduation is guaranteed 6 figure income. If you look at all X graduates over past 20 years, I would guess less than 20% make six figures. BUT there is a chance.

I think your estimate is low. If you get a college degree and aren't making 6 figures after 20 years in your field, you are either underpaid or have found something you love and income isn't as important to you.

[paulxu]

OK, I did an in-depth survey of bourbon in Ireland, and it's about as scarce as a Kaiser Gates in next year's line up.
10 days in and out of restaurants/pubs with no success (except that one half filled bottle of Beam in Dingle).
No one really understands bourbon in Ireland. They do know Jack though.

But, on the last day, like a Kerem Kanter from nowhere, I'm in a very small restaurant in Dublin. Guy with long beard behind bar.
I'm paying my tab getting ready to go, I ask him why no bourbon in Ireland. He whips out the Elijah Craig.
Whoa! Then he tells me he has an 8 year old bottle of Pappy he's saving. And, that he was one of a very few people invited to a tasting of Pappy this year.
Says they only get 18 bottles of it in Ireland every year.
This guy seemed to know his bourbon.

But knew absolutely jack shit about 5th year transfers or global warming.
Said he knew Tardy...but I didn't believe him.

Here's the place if you're ever in Dublin. You can see the Makers bottle in the window, in the photos.

http://green19.ie/#menu-item-213

[stammina0721]

Maybe Steele hinted he wasn't big in next year's plan. Those 3 grad guys are all going to want to play.

This. Never been a fan of his game. It is not good in the college game for a guy at his size to have zero inside game and just stays on the perimeter. However, his game translates well at the pro level. I could see him playing 12 minutes a game as a good defender who provides a couple 3's a game. Even if it is not in the NBA his skill set has way more pro potential than NCAA potential.

What I am trying to say is this... he isn't going to get better with another year at Xavier. He will get much better playing for money instead of playing sixth man for X.

[stammina0721]

I think your estimate is low. If you get a college degree and aren't making 6 figures after 20 years in your field, you are either underpaid or have found something you love and income isn't as important to you.

Pretty much all teachers right?

[XUGRAD80]

Pretty much all teachers right?


I was going to say the same thing. Depending on where you live and what field you are in but 6 figure incomes a probably less common than what he thinks, even for people with 20 years or more of experience.

[bleedXblue]

I was going to say the same thing. Depending on where you live and what field you are in but 6 figure incomes a probably less common than what he thinks, even for people with 20 years or more of experience.

Guys this is an AVERAGE. Sure teachers pull this number down some but business professionals, healthcare fields, engineering, computer science etc etc pull this number up significantly. I would love to see some published data, but its hard to find.

[throwbackmuskie]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salary-for-americans-at-every-age-2017-4

[xukeith]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salary-for-americans-at-every-age-2017-4
Obviously, those with 4 year degrees do NOT make 6 figures. As you get older, companies realize they can save money by letting you go and training a new college student for $40K-$45K per year.

[bleedXblue]

Obviously, those with 4 year degrees do NOT make 6 figures. As you get older, companies realize they can save money by letting you go and training a new college student for $40K-$45K per year.

what planet do you live on Keith? Seriously, I want to know

[bleedXblue]

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-average-salary-for-americans-at-every-age-2017-4

Well ok, now that's AVERAGE salary for ALL workers.

http://www.sentierresearch.com/StatBriefs/Sentier_Income_Trends_WorkingClassWages_1996to2014 _Brief_10_05_16.pdf

if I could find other demographics I would have posted too.

[xukeith]

what planet do you live on Keith? Seriously, I want to know

Reality. Ask every 4 year degree graduate 20 years after their degree attainment. They do not make 6 figures. Not in Ohio, kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Indiana.

Perhaps New York, California, Nevada, Colorado, etc. with higher costs of living.

Maybe you are speaking of XU mens bball players graduating and playing overseas. Now yes, then after 4-8 years, making 6 figures.

[xukeith]

Pretty much all teachers right?

Nurses, theology and philosophy majors, social workers, government employees, lawyers after 5 years only make 45,000-60,000 as I know so many.

[bleedXblue]

Reality. Ask every 4 year degree graduate 20 years after their degree attainment. They do not make 6 figures. Not in Ohio, kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Indiana.

Perhaps New York, California, Nevada, Colorado, etc. with higher costs of living.

Maybe you are speaking of XU mens bball players graduating and playing overseas. Now yes, then after 4-8 years, making 6 figures.

I have a 4 year degree and have been making 6 figures since my mid 30's. I know of hundreds of other business / professionals that make six figures with a 4 year degree. I live in Ohio as do many of these same people.

Get out from underneath your rock. You are wrong.

[GoMuskies]

When we talk six figures, how many of those figures are to the right of the decimal?

[bleedXblue]

Nurses, theology and philosophy majors, social workers, government employees, lawyers after 5 years only make 45,000-60,000 as I know so many.

Well we arent talking about after 5 years Keith!! Theology and philosophy majors? They represent less than 1% of the working population. Lawyers do very, very well once they get into their careers. Don't get me started on government employees..........

[GoMuskies]

lawyers

Muskie and LA Muskie wouldn't get out of bed for less than half a mil.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I do and I am exactly 20 years out, but I live in Phoenix.


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[XUGRAD80]

Maybe a lot do. I don’t know. I only know three things.....I’m 40 years out and never made anywhere close to 100K in a year (business mgt career), my wife never went to any college and makes over 100K a year in her position (but only a few people in her company do), and 100K ain’t what it used to be....inflation ya know. :).

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

If you are a lawyer making 60k 5 years into your career you’ll default on your student loans. The going rate for a summer associate (2nd year summer of law school), will make 1500+ a week in a a small-ish Detroit market.

[Xville]

Reality. Ask every 4 year degree graduate 20 years after their degree attainment. They do not make 6 figures. Not in Ohio, kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Indiana.

Perhaps New York, California, Nevada, Colorado, etc. with higher costs of living.

Maybe you are speaking of XU mens bball players graduating and playing overseas. Now yes, then after 4-8 years, making 6 figures.

Are we talking making six figures first year out of college, or making six figures 20 years removed from your graduating year?

If you think no one in ky, oh, mo is making six figures 20 years removed from graduation, then you live on a different planet.

I'm 14 years removed from my graduation year and I have been making six figures in ky for a few years now.

To be perfectly honest, if you aren't making that kind of money by the time you are 15-20 years out of school, you wasted a ton of money going to college in this day and age...there are plenty of jobs where you dont need a 4 year college degree and can make 60-80k a year.

[paulxu]

To be perfectly honest, if you aren't making that kind of money by the time you are 15-20 years out of school, you wasted a ton of money going to college in this day and age...there are plenty of jobs where you dont need a 4 year college degree and can make 60-80k a year.

Nicely circled back to Kaiser there.

[bleedXblue]

Nicely circled back to Kaiser there.

:homer:

[xukeith]

Well we arent talking about after 5 years Keith!! Theology and philosophy majors? They represent less than 1% of the working population. Lawyers do very, very well once they get into their careers. Don't get me started on government employees..........
What % of the working force are doctors and lawyers? Get a clue.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2014/article/education-level-and-jobs.htm

[xukeith]

Are we talking making six figures first year out of college, or making six figures 20 years removed from your graduating year?

If you think no one in ky, oh, mo is making six figures 20 years removed from graduation, then you live on a different planet.

I'm 14 years removed from my graduation year and I have been making six figures in ky for a few years now.

To be perfectly honest, if you aren't making that kind of money by the time you are 15-20 years out of school, you wasted a ton of money going to college in this day and age...there are plenty of jobs where you dont need a 4 year college degree and can make 60-80k a year.

not nobody but not over 60%

[bleedXblue]

What % of the working force are doctors and lawyers? Get a clue.

https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2014/article/education-level-and-jobs.htm

So Keith, the average mean salary for bachelor's degree was 68K in 2013.....let's call that 75K now (5 years later with 2% annual increases)

So, you do know what average means right?

If the low end is 35-40K for recent graduates, that would make the high end 110K-115K.

Those making 110-115K are further along in their careers and have earned promotions, normal increases in pay etc. etc.

Thanks for providing more data to solidify my point and prove you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, just to add to some earlier points made........if you spent 4 years of your life getting an education and aren't taking advantage of that and making 6 figures once you have a chance to establish yourself, you likely either love what you are doing and money isn't all that important to you OR you're unambitious.

[muskiefan82]

Also, just to add to some earlier points made........if you spent 4 years of your life getting an education and aren't taking advantage of that and making 6 figures once you have a chance to establish yourself, you likely either love what you are doing and money isn't all that important to you OR you're unambitious.

That is why you should get your welding certificate before transferring to a 4 year school.

[XMuskieFTW]

So Keith, the average mean salary for bachelor's degree was 68K in 2013.....let's call that 75K now (5 years later with 2% annual increases)

So, you do know what average means right?

If the low end is 35-40K for recent graduates, that would make the high end 110K-115K.

Those making 110-115K are further along in their careers and have earned promotions, normal increases in pay etc. etc.

Thanks for providing more data to solidify my point and prove you have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, just to add to some earlier points made........if you spent 4 years of your life getting an education and aren't taking advantage of that and making 6 figures once you have a chance to establish yourself, you likely either love what you are doing and money isn't all that important to you OR you're unambitious.

I mean you can't utilize the mean as an accurate representation of the average person here. You could have 100 people making 40k to a CEO at 6 mil. For each person at 160k you'd have 3 at 80k. We really need to talk about the median income. According to the US census bureau in 2015, the median salary of individuals with a bachelors degree is 59k. So even if you wanted to do a 1 to 1 of recent grad vs. someone 20 years in, you're probably looking at 40k vs 80k.

[bleedXblue]

I mean you can't utilize the mean as an accurate representation of the average person here. You could have 100 people making 40k to a CEO at 6 mil. For each person at 160k you'd have 3 at 80k. We really need to talk about the median income. According to the US census bureau in 2015, the median salary of individuals with a bachelors degree is 59k. So even if you wanted to do a 1 to 1 of recent grad vs. someone 20 years in, you're probably looking at 40k vs 80k.

Sure...was trying to do a very brief example analogy

Lets not forget Keith stated that no one 20 years into their careers is making 6 figures.........at least not in Oh, KY and IN.......LOL

[XMuskieFTW]

Sure...was trying to do a very brief example analogy

Lets not forget Keith stated that no one 20 years into their careers is making 6 figures.........at least not in Oh, KY and IN.......LOL

Yea it's definitely fairly common, but probably not the norm. I'd guess 35-40% of people 20 years in with a degree are at 100k+.

[Masterofreality]

A little off topic, but a bunch of people, don't know if they're honks of Clifton Collegiate High School or not, keep saying Jacob Evans is going to be a First Round pick. Really?

Evans showed me zero all year and was part of the problem, not the solution to Mickey Mouses crap offense. He totally disappeared against XU, ostensibly vs sub par defenders on our perimeter. He is certainly not as accomplished as Tre Bluiett or JP, but he's allegedly going first round?

I just don't see it. I think the kid has his head full of ish. But whatever. Not my concern. (Tea sipping Frog logo attached).

[xukeith]

Yea it's definitely fairly common, but probably not the norm. I'd guess 35-40% of people 20 years in with a degree are at 100k+.

I concede some do make 6 figures but I would confidently estimate 60-70% make under 6 figures after graduating from a 4 year university.

[XUGRAD80]

Also, just to add to some earlier points made........if you spent 4 years of your life getting an education and aren't taking advantage of that and making 6 figures once you have a chance to establish yourself, you likely either love what you are doing and money isn't all that important to you OR you're unambitious.

Or maybe you work in a field where the average income is not as high as other fields? Who the heck are you, or anyone else, to judge someone's level of ambition or love of money? I LOVE money....but I love my family MORE. After spending many years working 60-70 hour weeks I realized that I had missed my daughter going through HS. I made a conscious decision to not do the same with my son. So I took on a different position with less hours and less money. I still maxed out what I could make in that position, but it was not near what I was making before. However, I had more free time to spend with my family, especially on the weekends. As I ran one of the most successful units in the country and was extremely profitable, with high sales, one cannot say that I was not ambitious or driven to succeed. I just measure success in different terms than others might. I don't judge ones level of ambition by how much they make, but in how well they perform. I was offered, and turned down, positions that would have meant a much higher level of income, but would have also meant working evenings, weekends, and holidays. it wasn't a lack of ambition, it was a difference of priorities.

[bleedXblue]

Or maybe you work in a field where the average income is not as high as other fields? Who the heck are you, or anyone else, to judge someone's level of ambition or love of money? I LOVE money....but I love my family MORE. After spending many years working 60-70 hour weeks I realized that I had missed my daughter going through HS. I made a conscious decision to not do the same with my son. So I took on a different position with less hours and less money. I still maxed out what I could make in that position, but it was not near what I was making before. However, I had more free time to spend with my family, especially on the weekends. As I ran one of the most successful units in the country and was extremely profitable, with high sales, one cannot say that I was not ambitious or driven to succeed. I just measure success in different terms than others might. I don't judge ones level of ambition by how much they make, but in how well they perform. I was offered, and turned down, positions that would have meant a much higher level of income, but would have also meant working evenings, weekends, and holidays. it wasn't a lack of ambition, it was a difference of priorities.

Duly noted.

The context of my point was that is is entirely possible (to make 100K within 20 years of graduation) and within reach of many individuals if they so choose to invest the time, effort and energy to make that happen. If you have the skill set, drive and ambition to earn that amount yet choose to not go that route for whatever reason, that's your choice.

[XUGRAD80]

Duly noted.

The context of my point was that is is entirely possible (to make 100K within 20 years of graduation) and within reach of many individuals if they so choose to invest the time, effort and energy to make that happen. If you have the skill set, drive and ambition to earn that amount yet choose to not go that route for whatever reason, that's your choice.

Agreed. Depending on the field, ones skills, and ones performance, 100K is not out of reach for many.....but that is not limited to just those with a 4 year degree or even beyond. My wife never attended college, started in her company 36 years ago as a part-time employee, and now is a regional manger responsible for millions in sales and hundred of employees.....and makes over 100K per year. She travels a lot now and has her office in our house, but our kids are grown and she enjoys her job. She’ll keep doing it as long as she likes. On the other hand, I’m enjoying retirement. :).

[XUBison]

I get it, the board is bored. But what the hell is this conversation? I can’t believe how many times I’ve clicked on this thread with the eager anticipation of finding an interesting nugget on Kaiser and/or X hoops. But nope, each time I forget this had become a symposium on how much money we’re all supposed to be making. it’s like I am looking for the club sandwich I misplaced, and I keep walking into the same board meeting by mistake. Oh, so sorry. Don’t mind me. Carry on...

[bleedXblue]

I get it, the board is bored. But what the hell is this conversation? I can’t believe how many times I’ve clicked on this thread with the eager anticipation of finding an interesting nugget on Kaiser and/or X hoops. But nope, each time I forget this had become a symposium on how much money we’re all supposed to be making. it’s like I am looking for the club sandwich I misplaced, and I keep walking into the same board meeting by mistake. Oh, so sorry. Don’t mind me. Carry on...

the off season sucks!

[XUGRAD80]

Gates has hired an agent. He is no longer eligible to return. Case closed. What else is there to say on that subject?

[muskiefan82]

it’s like I am looking for the club sandwich I misplaced, and I keep walking into the same board meeting by mistake. ...

Maybe the sandwich is on a Kaiser roll.......

[flatspat]

Gates has hired an agent. He is no longer eligible to return. Case closed. What else is there to say on that subject?

Not a damn thing!

[GIMMFD]

Gates has hired an agent. He is no longer eligible to return. Case closed. What else is there to say on that subject?

Can he jump off one foot??

Was he athletic enough for the Big East??

Was he a douche in college??

The possibilities are endless.

[xuwin]

A little off topic, but a bunch of people, don't know if they're honks of Clifton Collegiate High School or not, keep saying Jacob Evans is going to be a First Round pick. Really?

Evans showed me zero all year and was part of the problem, not the solution to Mickey Mouses crap offense. He totally disappeared against XU, ostensibly vs sub par defenders on our perimeter. He is certainly not as accomplished as Tre Bluiett or JP, but he's allegedly going first round?

I just don't see it. I think the kid has his head full of ish. But whatever. Not my concern. (Tea sipping Frog logo attached).

I agree with you. It blows my mind that anybody is looking at Evans as a first round draft choice.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I agree with you. It blows my mind that anybody is looking at Evans as a first round draft choice.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23489006/2018-nba-mock-draft-lottery-teams-top-picks-deandre-ayton-luka-doncic-trae-young

#22 in this latest Mock from ESPN.

[Xville]

A little off topic, but a bunch of people, don't know if they're honks of Clifton Collegiate High School or not, keep saying Jacob Evans is going to be a First Round pick. Really?

Evans showed me zero all year and was part of the problem, not the solution to Mickey Mouses crap offense. He totally disappeared against XU, ostensibly vs sub par defenders on our perimeter. He is certainly not as accomplished as Tre Bluiett or JP, but he's allegedly going first round?

I just don't see it. I think the kid has his head full of ish. But whatever. Not my concern. (Tea sipping Frog logo attached).

He has good athleticism, can score in different ways and can defend. What does tre or jp "being more accomplished" have to do with the nba?? Tre cant do any of the three mentioned above, and jp is just average athletically and cant defend either.

Evans may or may not go first round ( hes borderline) but hes going to be drafted and may end up being a good role player in the league if he finds his niche.

[GIMMFD]

He has good athleticism, can score in different ways and can defend. What does tre or jp "being more accomplished" have to do with the nba?? Tre cant do any of the three mentioned above, and jp is just average athletically and cant defend either.

Evans may or may not go first round ( hes borderline) but hes going to be drafted and may end up being a good role player in the league if he finds his niche.

Yup agreed, good size at 6'6, shoots okay from the 3 in the high 30%, is just more athletic than Tre, and that's really what you need for the NBA. Tre may be more skilled, and crafty in how he scores, but he's just not athletic enough to cut it in the league, which sucks. Evans unfortunately is. Regardless, I wouldn't trade Tre for Evans any day of the week, but that's just how the NBA goes. Nothing you can really do about it.

[XUGRAD80]

The NBA and College BB are two different things. Success in the former is not dependent on success on the latter and success in college certainly doesn’t guarantee success in the NBA. Tre is a good enough shooter that he will probsbly be given a chance of playing in the NBA, but I don’t see him ever being an established starter, let alone a star. More like instant offense off the bench. Evens has the athleticism and physical abilities to play the NBA game. Does he have the skill set? There may be an NBA team willing to use a very precious draft pick on him and take the chance that he is. Only time will tell.

[Xville]

The NBA and College BB are two different things. Success in the former is not dependent on success on the latter and success in college certainly doesn’t guarantee success in the NBA. Tre is a good enough shooter that he will probsbly be given a chance of playing in the NBA, but I don’t see him ever being an established starter, let alone a star. More like instant offense off the bench. Evens has the athleticism and physical abilities to play the NBA game. Does he have the skill set? There may be an NBA team willing to use a very precious draft pick on him and take the chance that he is. Only time will tell.

Tre will never sniff the nba. Hes going to make a whole lot of money in Europe though.

[smileyy]

If Tre were 6'8" it might be a different story. But, he's not.

[xu82]

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23489006/2018-nba-mock-draft-lottery-teams-top-picks-deandre-ayton-luka-doncic-trae-young

#22 in this latest Mock from ESPN.

I’m not commenting on Evans (or anything else regarding the NBA draft), just noting that ESPN seems to be imploding. They recently posted a photo of Josh Allen playing QB for the Bills at rookie camp with the title saying Josh Rosen had arrived in Buffalo. Bills AND Cardinals fans got a chuckle out of that. Then a day later some ESPN clown comes out with a projection of every teams record for next year (complete with the score for every game) and he has the 9 win playoff team from last year falling to 2 wins...and a tie. Aside from a crazy drop in wins.......Who predicts a tie?

Did they let all the competent people go?

[smileyy]

Well, they still employ Jonathan Givony who used to run the excellent draftexpress.com. I'd expect their draft insight to be pretty good at least from him.

[bleedXblue]

Evans will be a bench warmer for 3-4 years and then be out of the league. I have no idea what anyone is thinking about taking him in the 1st round. Must be a top heavy draft.

[Xavier]

I think he will be a good role player.

[Lloyd Braun]

Kaiser working out today for the four-time defending Eastern Conference champion Cleveland Cavaliers

[bleedXblue]

Hoe exactly does one go about getting a "workout"?

[smileyy]

Contingency plan for LeBron leaving? I mean, they're both 6'8 forwards...

[xukeith]

Contingency plan for LeBron leaving? I mean, they're both 6'8 forwards...

So true.
And neither players' teams in high school won their state tournament.

[xu82]

Contingency plan for LeBron leaving? I mean, they're both 6'8 forwards...

I’m sure they’d hardly miss a beat.....

[Lloyd Braun]

So true.
And neither players' teams in high school won their state tournament.

Huh? Pretty sure Lebron won multiple in HS....

The Cavs don’t have any draft picks. They are doing due diligence with workouts for projected UFAs.

[Lloyd Braun]

Hoe exactly does one go about getting a "workout"?

Agent contacts team or vice versa.

[XUGRAD80]

So true.
And neither players' teams in high school won their state tournament.

I’m very sure thst LaBron’s SVSM HS team was undefeated and won the championship his senior year. However, they did not win it his Junior Year. That honor belongs to the Roger Bacon HS Spartans! They defeated SVSM in the championship game. :stickmove:

[Frambo]

I’m very sure thst LaBron’s SVSM HS team was undefeated and won the championship his senior year. However, they did not win it his Junior Year. That honor belongs to the Roger Bacon HS Spartans! They defeated SVSM in the championship game. :stickmove:

He also won it his Freshman and Sophomore years

[paulxu]

So true.
And neither players' teams in high school won their state tournament.

Gates' team won their Class A championship in the state of Georgia in both his junior and senior years.
His team included 4 guys who went to division 1 schools, 2 of whom are now in the pros.

[xukeith]

Gates' team won their Class A championship in the state of Georgia in both his junior and senior years.
His team included 4 guys who went to division 1 schools, 2 of whom are now in the pros.

I knew he was better than Lebron!

[94GRAD]

Huh? Pretty sure Lebron won multiple in HS....

The Cavs don’t have any draft picks. They are doing due diligence with workouts for projected UFAs.

They have the 8th pick from Boston via Brooklyn.

[scoscox]

I knew he was better than Lebron!

Lebron won 3 state titles at svsm

[94GRAD]

Lebron won 3 state titles at svsm

His loss was to Cincinnati's own *Roger Bacon HS!

-I'm an Idiot!

[Lloyd Braun]

They have the 8th pick from Boston via Brooklyn.

Should have specified 2nd round draft picks on guys to take a flyer on. Obviously Kaiser at #8 would be a bit of a reach.

[scoscox]

His loss was to Cincinnati's own St. Bernard HS!

*Roger Bacon

[Get Real]

Why is this thread still alive? Gates is gone. 24 pages of nonsensical diatribes along with vindictive missives because a bench player decided to leave. Move on and let this non-event incur a much needed death.

[Lloyd Braun]

Why is this thread still alive? Gates is gone. 24 pages of nonsensical diatribes along with vindictive missives because a bench player decided to leave. Move on and let this non-event incur a much needed death.

He’s a member of the x family and some of us want to see him succeed? You don’t have to click on it if you hate Kaiser like others on this board.

[xu82]

He’s a member of the x family and some of us want to see him succeed? You don’t have to click on it if you hate Kaiser like others on this board.

No kidding....GO Kaiser!!!

[GIMMFD]

Should have specified 2nd round draft picks on guys to take a flyer on. Obviously Kaiser at #8 would be a bit of a reach.

Meh I could see it happening, they obviously need some guys that can hit some shots and Gates has shown that in streaks, he can light it up when he's on, and he has good size. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see them take a flier on him, still so strange he declared.

[bleedXblue]

Meh I could see it happening, they obviously need some guys that can hit some shots and Gates has shown that in streaks, he can light it up when he's on, and he has good size. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see them take a flier on him, still so strange he declared.

There is no possibility of this happening......

My guess on Cleveland looking at him is that Posey cashed in a favor........

Yeah, I'm kinda down on Gates b/c he's making what I think is a bad decision.

Im over it and wish him well in whatever he does.

[XU 87]

Kaiser averaged 7.2 ppg and 4.6 rebounds per game last year. He lost his starting job to a freshman. I just can't imagine him getting drafted.

[Lloyd Braun]

There is no possibility of this happening......

My guess on Cleveland looking at him is that Posey cashed in a favor........

Yeah, I'm kinda down on Gates b/c he's making what I think is a bad decision.

Im over it and wish him well in whatever he does.

Does Posey have any ties to Gates? I didn’t think he did and even if he does I would be shocked if Posey would ask that favor. Doesn’t sound Posey-ish to me.



Kaiser averaged 7.2 ppg and 4.6 rebounds per game last year. He lost his starting job to a freshman. I just can't imagine him getting drafted.

I don’t think anyone, even Kaiser’s Dad, really believes he will be drafted. But if he gets some workouts and maybe a summer league invite that is a win for them. I believe it’s unlikely but workouts at this point are not uncommon. Kanter is also getting workouts in... almost everyone is because teams need to fill summer league rosters and eventually G League rosters.

[xu82]

Kaiser averaged 7.2 ppg and 4.6 rebounds per game last year. He lost his starting job to a freshman. I just can't imagine him getting drafted.

And I still wish him nothing but the best. Wherever that may be.


I still have this nagging notion that there’s something important that we don’t know. Regardless, I thank Kaiser and his family (very nice folks I met in Orlando a couple years ago) for their contribution. I hope he finds a path that works for him and he’s happy with his time at Xavier.

[GIMMFD]

There is no possibility of this happening......

My guess on Cleveland looking at him is that Posey cashed in a favor........

Yeah, I'm kinda down on Gates b/c he's making what I think is a bad decision.

Im over it and wish him well in whatever he does.

Lol to be fair, I don't think it WILL happen, but I think it could if he has some amazing work outs and really thrives, more so I didn't really meant him getting drafted, just kind of finding a spot on a team in the NBA.

[kellernr]

Meh I could see it happening, they obviously need some guys that can hit some shots and Gates has shown that in streaks, he can light it up when he's on, and he has good size. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see them take a flier on him, still so strange he declared.Watching his work out video I can see now why Mack said he was the best shooter on the team. Just wish those practice shots would have carried over in the real games a little more.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2018-60-pick-nba-mock-draft-6-5-18/

Kaiser making his first appearance in any mock drafts I have seen at #59 to the Suns.

He's definitely the best NBA prospect of the three of him, JP, and Tre just because of his size and ability to shoot and he is the best defender of the three. Also with the way the NBA is so 3 and D centered now it wouldnt completely shock me.

[Lloyd Braun]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-2018-60-pick-nba-mock-draft-6-5-18/

Kaiser making his first appearance in any mock drafts I have seen at #59 to the Suns.

He's definitely the best NBA prospect of the three of him, JP, and Tre just because of his size and ability to shoot and he is the best defender of the three. Also with the way the NBA is so 3 and D centered now it wouldnt completely shock me.

The Kaiser haters will dismiss this as irrelevant.

[webxu]

I hope he gets drafted, heck I hope all 5 end up on NBA rosters, that would be great for X in the long term