Kaiser Gates

[X Factor]

It's Mack's fault. He totally misused Kaiser.

[MHettel]

The Kaiser haters will dismiss this as irrelevant.

I dont hate Kaiser. I'll start with that.

But lighting it up in a shooting drill is not the same as playing in a game with some actual stakes invovled. he was invisible last year. He has no instinct of feel for the game. I compared him to jeff Robinson previously, and I'm sticking to that. he's just out there on offense, watching the playmakers try to create.....

[Lloyd Braun]

I dont hate Kaiser. I'll start with that.

But lighting it up in a shooting drill is not the same as playing in a game with some actual stakes invovled. he was invisible last year. He has no instinct of feel for the game. I compared him to jeff Robinson previously, and I'm sticking to that. he's just out there on offense, watching the playmakers try to create.....

Maybe he suffered postconcussive symptoms? Who knows? Regardless, at least a few NBA scouts (who’s opinion really matters in this instance) disagree with your assessment. Jeff Robinson is a terrible comp btw, sorry.

[xukeith]

Maybe he is stressed about academics. We all know at Xavier, our men's basketball players are all about academics first.

[Cheesehead]

Maybe he suffered postconcussive symptoms? Who knows? Regardless, at least a few NBA scouts (who’s opinion really matters in this instance) disagree with your assessment. Jeff Robinson is a terrible comp btw, sorry.

I think there maybe something to the concussion thing. He was just not the same player afterwards.

[paulxu]

I didn't think Gates went to the combine.
I hope he gets drafted and does well; I think he's got some talent.
As to his game last year, have no idea why he slacked off. But he showed ability to go to the hoop, and his playing on the edge must have been what Mack wanted him to do.

[IM4X]

Maybe he suffered postconcussive symptoms? Who knows? Regardless, at least a few NBA scouts (who’s opinion really matters in this instance) disagree with your assessment. Jeff Robinson is a terrible comp btw, sorry.

I get the Robinson comparison. They don't have the same skill set but they both demonstrated sparks of being very special players in certain games where they played at a very high level, but then would often struggle for stretches of games in a season. Not sure if it was just a confidence thing (partly due to the way they were being coached) or if there was something else going on with them... but they both just never seemed to be able to play well consistently.

Myles Davis is another X player who seemed to fit that mold, having similar issues during the season. It's almost as if they were getting into their own heads, causing doubt and becoming their own worst enemy.

[Caf]

I get the Robinson comparison. They don't have the same skill set but they both demonstrated sparks of being very special players in certain games where they played at a very high level, but then would often struggle for stretches of games in a season. Not sure if it was just a confidence thing (partly due to the way they were being coached) or if there was something else going on with them... but they both just never seemed to be able to play well consistently.

Myles Davis is another X player who seemed to fit that mold, having similar issues during the season. It's almost as if they were getting into their own heads, causing doubt and becoming their own worst enemy.

Justin Martin and Kaiser Gates are the same person, no?

[Lloyd Braun]

I didn't think Gates went to the combine.

He may not have gone to THE combine but he did go to a combine (http://www.professionalbasketballcombine.com).

Him and JP went this year.

[scoscox]

1) Miles Bridges
2) Donte DiVincenzo
3) Kaiser Gates
4) De’Anthony Melton
5) Keita Bates-Diop
6) Lonnie Walker

Kaiser Gates working out for the bulls with these other scrubs. The haters continue to be furious.

[MHettel]

Justin Martin and Kaiser Gates are the same person, no?

Another good comp. he's just inactive offensively. Martin, Robinson, and Gates should have had to pay admission to the games, for as much as they stood around and watched.....

[xukeith]

Justin Martin was not great defensively BUT he was consistent on offense. He won he Crosstown Shootout for us 1 year.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Justin Martin was not great defensively BUT he was consistent on offense. He won he Crosstown Shootout for us 1 year.

Justin Martin was consistent? I remember that differently.

[D-West & PO-Z]

1) Miles Bridges
2) Donte DiVincenzo
3) Kaiser Gates
4) De’Anthony Melton
5) Keita Bates-Diop
6) Lonnie Walker

Kaiser Gates working out for the bulls with these other scrubs. The haters continue to be furious.

Ha, yeah, especially considering some of those people legitimately thought he didnt even have a chance to make any money playing overseas.

Will he get drafted? Probably a long shot. Will he make an NBA team (drafted or not) probably a long shot. But Kaiser Gates will certainly be playing basketball for some decent money next year. Especially if he plays overseas as opposed to trying G-League route.

[GIMMFD]

I hope he gets drafted, heck I hope all 5 end up on NBA rosters, that would be great for X in the long term

Amen, seeing our guys in the NBA means more exposure for the program. Kaiser is interesting, he'll definitely play overseas if he doesn't get drafted/G-League route, which like I said I don't think it WILL happen, but it wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world. There's definitely a mental aspect to it, and I really think Kaiser has some untapped potential.

[mid major]

Justin Martin was consistent? I remember that differently.

I think Justin Martin was consistently inconsistent.

[Lloyd Braun]

A little off topic, but a bunch of people, don't know if they're honks of Clifton Collegiate High School or not, keep saying Jacob Evans is going to be a First Round pick. Really?

Evans showed me zero all year and was part of the problem, not the solution to Mickey Mouses crap offense. He totally disappeared against XU, ostensibly vs sub par defenders on our perimeter. He is certainly not as accomplished as Tre Bluiett or JP, but he's allegedly going first round?

I just don't see it. I think the kid has his head full of ish. But whatever. Not my concern. (Tea sipping Frog logo attached).

Well this didn’t age well... I agree with your premise however. Unfortunately he is going to quite possibly the best culture for him or any young player.

[XUGRAD80]

Well this didn’t age well... I agree with your premise however. Unfortunately he is going to quite possibly the best culture for him or any young player.

Now that’s a big old WTF? He must have really wowed in his personal workouts because I saw a lot of him this past year, on TV and in person, and I was never really impressed. Decent player with potential, but a 1st rounder? Well good for him. But doesn’t it say something about the coaching at UC that they had a 1st rounder playing guard for them, and still had trouble scoring?

[Lloyd Braun]

Kaiser on Bulls summer league roster.

[xu95]

Kaiser on Bulls summer league roster.

Not too bad for someone who couldn't even play on a seventh level Spanish team ***sarcasm font turned off***

xu95

[Xville]

Now that’s a big old WTF? He must have really wowed in his personal workouts because I saw a lot of him this past year, on TV and in person, and I was never really impressed. Decent player with potential, but a 1st rounder? Well good for him. But doesn’t it say something about the coaching at UC that they had a 1st rounder playing guard for them, and still had trouble scoring?

He plays really good defense, which contrary to popular opinion, is highly valued in the league. It is something none of the Xavier eligible draft players are good at, and something Mack never valued.

[bleedXblue]

I cant believe that Golden State passed up Omari Spellman for Jacob Evans....who will be a career bench warmer.......I know you draft based on need and they clearly have enough scorers....

I think Spellman is going to be a helluva of a pro

[bleedXblue]

Kaiser on Bulls summer league roster.

what does this get you?

Seriously.......not being a smartass

[paulxu]

what does this get you?

Seriously.......not being a smartass

A better look against competition?

[bleedXblue]

A better look against competition?

yeah ok, but who plays in the summer league? Is it rookies and other guys still trying to make an impression?

Its not current NBA guys, right?

[GoMuskies]

yeah ok, but who plays in the summer league? Is it rookies and other guys still trying to make an impression?

Its not current NBA guys, right?

Some of the younger NBA guys who haven't been able to get much regular season court time play in it. And the draftees.

[xu95]

More importantly though, the teams don't have unlimited spots on their summer league rosters so they aren't going to waste a spot on a player they aren't at least mildly interested in.

xu95

[XMuskieFTW]

I mean usually these summer league rosters consist of 12-15 guys fighting for 3-4 spots. Usually 2 of those guys are a first round or prior first rounder that will make the team.

So in the past, it's been 10-13 guys fighting for a look at 1-2 spots. But now with two way contracts, it's more like 10-13 guys fighting for 3-4 spots.

[Lloyd Braun]

yeah ok, but who plays in the summer league? Is it rookies and other guys still trying to make an impression?

Its not current NBA guys, right?

Why can’t you be happy for Kaiser? If you bleed X blue I would think you would be happy for him, no?

[drudy23]

I cant believe that Golden State passed up Omari Spellman for Jacob Evans....who will be a career bench warmer.......I know you draft based on need and they clearly have enough scorers....

I think Spellman is going to be a helluva of a pro

Jacob Evans role IF he gets minutes:

Play defense
Play smart
Keep the ball moving
Play defense
Don't you dare shoot unless absolutely necessary
Play defense

And he could be successful doing it on that team.

[XUBison]

Jacob Evans role IF he gets minutes:

Play defense
Play smart
Keep the ball moving
Play defense
Don't you dare shoot unless absolutely necessary
Play defense

And he could be successful doing it on that team.

The best shooting team in league history is going to give run to a guy they don’t trust to shoot? He’ll get zero floor time on that team if he can’t be a reliable shooter.

[drudy23]

The best shooting team in league history is going to give run to a guy they don’t trust to shoot? He’ll get zero floor time on that team if he can’t be a reliable shooter.

Huh?

They have plenty of reliable shooters. They don't need Jacob Evans to shoot. Nor did they draft him to shoot.

I'm not saying he can't shoot...I'm saying they don't need him to.

[bleedXblue]

Why can’t you be happy for Kaiser? If you bleed X blue I would think you would be happy for him, no?

I hope like hell he makes it and has a great NBA career. I've been pretty clear that I think his decision was a bad one. I hope he proves me wrong.

[Xavier]

The best shooting team in league history is going to give run to a guy they don’t trust to shoot? He’ll get zero floor time on that team if he can’t be a reliable shooter.

No kidding. As long as you look past teams laying off Draymond Green because he can’t shoot.

It’s a pretty good pick for them, IMO. He will be a pretty solid defender that can switch on a lot, I think he will see time.

[sirthought]

Evans is not as polished, but he's exactly the same type of player as Iguodala. He's tough, has a handle and dribble in traffic, can hit an open 3, not afraid to rebound, and he plays defense right now better than many guys entering the league. His biggest issue is he wasn't trying to take over enough in his first seasons and deferred to others to get it done. His confidence is rising, though, and on the right team he can be really effective. I think he's a great fit for the Warriors. Patrick McCaw is likely out after last year's injury, and Iguodala might be out too either via trade or other avenue to save money.

I think Gates has a great opportunity to showcase his skills in the Bulls camp. They are shaping their offense around plays with a stretch 4, so hopefully things fall his way, but I think it's a long shot.

But there are plenty of cases where an unknown guy played his way onto a roster via summer league. If anything, a lot of Euro scouts are there as well.

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

Was looking around for NBA teams' posts on the X guys, and stumbled upon this article. The oddness around Kaiser's time here continues... continually referring to his time at X as "that school."
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-daily-kaiser-gates-determined-to-silence-his-doubters/

"It’s hard to ignore statistical evidence when it comes to evaluating players, but misuse and fit could have been more prominent factors in this case. It’s something that happens quite a bit at school programs with prospects, and Gates believes that he could be added to that list of mishandled talent.

“I don’t think I’m inconsistent at all,” Gates said. “At Xavier, I know my stats showed that I was inconsistent. Playing at that school it was a great experience—great guys, great coaches.

“Just kinda like my situation and the way I was playing at that school didn’t really allow me to showcase my full talents, and with that being said, it’s kinda hard to stay consistent not doing something I’m used to doing.”"

[drudy23]

This doesn't make much sense to me from Kaiser's perspective.

He was a stretch 4. He didn't consistently make shots, and it would have REALLY helped if he did. He was the perfect weapon in our offense WHEN he's hitting shots. He's capable of making the 3, it stretched our offense, and pulled their bigs out.

Not sure what part of his game we didn't see, unless he's saying he wanted to play bigger (in the post) but the offense didn't allow it.

[XU 87]

Kaiser wants to play in the NBA. He averaged 7 points per game last year and lost his starting job to a freshman. I doubt he's going to say, "I was a one dimensional player on offense who probably doesn't have the skills to make the NBA." Instead he must say, "I'm a really good player. My stats were so low because XU didn't use me properly. Just wait until a team uses me properly."

[MITTENMUSKIE16]

That’s a good point, he really has to sell himself on why maybe he wasn’t great here. But he seems to be really sour grapes over his time at “that school”. I’m sure he could’ve sold himself in a much more appropriate way, which to me reads that he really actually wasn’t happy in his time here. Oh well.

[whopper]

loved the team and look forward to this year. Depth is usually a blessing but both Gates and O'Mara saw a cut in time and continuity that with Naj and Karem who both played great. This has happened forever in sports(and in pros generates trades which can't happen in college) but neither was allowed to play through a cold spell which they may have without so much depth. We had a great season but would like to have 10 minutes total back(PC and FSU) not even a half. Damn

[webxu]

Kaiser only has himself to blame for not showcasing those skills. Pretty sure the coaches would have made those skills a prominent part of our team.. why waste talent? KG needed to show the willingness to put it on the deck and go hard to the hoop, he has the ability but not the mentality. instead he liked to float around the 3pt line and only do 1 thing..

[XU 87]

Kaiser only has himself to blame for not showcasing those skills. Pretty sure the coaches would have made those skills a prominent part of our team.. why waste talent? KG needed to show the willingness to put it on the deck and go hard to the hoop, he has the ability but not the mentality. instead he liked to float around the 3pt line and only do 1 thing..

I don't think he had the ability. His ball handling skills weren't very good.

[Xuperman]

I, like a lot of us, have been baffled by Kaiser's career here. I personally thought his priorities may have been jumbled when it came to basketball vs private life. Now it is clear that he was obviously disgruntled. Glad he is gone so it didn't have any chance to pollute our locker room in the fall.

[GIMMFD]

You know, maybe, just MAYBE, we're reading way too much into this, and Kaiser did enjoy his time here, but is trying to work an angle to show that he is an asset to a professional team, when asked tough questions about his statistics? He's gotta make a case for himself, reading into him saying "that school" is a stretch, I could see how it can come off wrong, but I'd like to hear his tone and see his demeanor in the interview before I crucify him.

[xu82]

You know, maybe, just MAYBE, we're reading way too much into this, and Kaiser did enjoy his time here, but is trying to work an angle to show that he is an asset to a professional team, when asked tough questions about his statistics? He's gotta make a case for himself, reading into him saying "that school" is a stretch, I could see how it can come off wrong, but I'd like to hear his tone and see his demeanor in the interview before I crucify him.


Since I can’t possibly know for sure, I’d prefer to think of it this way. Didn’t he also say he loved the school and the guys? (I’m far too lazy to go back and look it up.)

[XU 87]

I, like a lot of us, have been baffled by Kaiser's career here. I personally thought his priorities may have been jumbled when it came to basketball vs private life. Now it is clear that he was obviously disgruntled. Glad he is gone so it didn't have any chance to pollute our locker room in the fall.

Do you have any evidence or knowledge to support your allegations that his priorities were jumbled or that he was disgruntled? (This is a serious and not a sarcastic question).

[noteggs]

Since I can’t possibly know for sure, I’d prefer to think of it this way. Didn’t he also say he loved the school and the guys? (I’m far too lazy to go back and look it up.)

Pretty much...”players and coaches” aka basketball program. Maybe it’s his vernacular to say “that program”.

[whopper]

We try to analyze this as if it was CNN or CNBC with nuance, hidden meanings etc. I don't read anything into it and wish them all the best. For all these wonderful players it is "go time" and it is just a fact that they will all look after their interests now as opposed to the team.

[XfansinKy]

During his freshman year I thought he was the guy who had the only realistic shot to play in the NBA. Then came the knee injury. Then came a pretty much wasted season due to his mentality, and worrying about getting his knee bumped. Was he even going to get much playing time with a future NBA player in Marshall or Welage, who's a 6'10 guy who's already scored over 1,250 points and shoots the 3 so much better than Kaiser. I've never heard of a guy who couldn't play college ball very well becoming an NBA player. I hope he does but he won't.

[Muskie]

I don't think Kaiser generated 30 pages of posts total in his college career based on his on the court contributions. He's apparently the best shooter in practice that Chris Mack has ever seen. I wish him the best. But I won't necessarily be following him.

[SemajParlor]

I cant believe that Golden State passed up Omari Spellman for Jacob Evans....who will be a career bench warmer.......I know you draft based on need and they clearly have enough scorers....

I think Spellman is going to be a helluva of a pro

It's almost like Golden State would value Evans skill sets more than Spellman's given their current roster.

[SemajParlor]

The best shooting team in league history is going to give run to a guy they don’t trust to shoot? He’ll get zero floor time on that team if he can’t be a reliable shooter.

Yeah, you don't watch the Warriors play basketball.

[webxu]

Over under on 74 wins for them this year?

[smileyy]

Under

[GoMuskies]

Way under. Like 60. They won't expend too much energy on the regular season.

[xu82]

Way under. Like 60. They won't expend too much energy on the regular season.

Yep, that’s the NBA for you and the reason I don’t watch any regular season games. Years ago we took the kids to an NBA game and about 3 minutes in my son said “they’re not even trying!”. That was 10-15 years ago, and I’ve been to a total of one game since...friends had tickets and wanted us to join them for dinner and the game. (It would have been rude to leave straight from dinner.)

[Lloyd Braun]

@DarnellMayberry: “The Bulls have agreed to a training camp deal with former Xavier forward Kaiser Gates, The Athletic has learned. Gates played on the Bulls’ summer league roster after forgoing the final year of his collegiate eligibility. He shot 37.8% from 3 on 4.2 attempts per game last year.”

[paulxu]

What's a "training camp deal?"

[BigMoeMusketeer]

What's a "training camp deal?"

This should answer your question:

The common misconception is that players who sign non-guaranteed contracts to participate in training camp will receive a salary. They don’t. Like summer league, players will receive roughly $127 in per diem, hotel and all travel expenses to take part. The one added bonus is that players are eligible to receive $2,000 in camp compensation per week for roughly four weeks.

[Lloyd Braun]

The camp deal is not really a contract unless he signed an exhibit 10 contract, which I think the Bulls have the ability to offer since they have a G league afffiliate. If it’s an exhibit 10 contract he would get a bonus (up to $50k) when he signs with the G league team.

The bulls only have one roster spot available, so Kaiser’s most realistic best chance is a spot with the G league affiliate, or even better a two way contract.