NCAA report on Adidas/ College Basketball

[JTG]

NCAA is releasing their findings on the Adidas/ College Bball probe at 8am this morning at headquarters in Indy.
Buckle up....

[xavierj]

NCAA is releasing their findings on the Adidas/ College Bball probe at 8am this morning at headquarters in Indy.
Buckle up....

I would imagine it won’t be much although Louisville has been swinging and missing on grad transfers left and right.

[GoMuskies]

NCAA is releasing their findings on the Adidas/ College Bball probe at 8am this morning at headquarters in Indy.
Buckle up....

Cleveland State is screwed.

[bleedXblue]

Cleveland State is screwed.

havent they always been?

[XUGRAD80]

Basically...NBA needs to get rid of the one and done rule, Cheater coaches need to be banned for seasons, not just games, or for life, and NCAA needs to allow agents access to players throughout the players careers....with NCAA oversite. It’s 66 pages long.

I agree with the premise in the report that the NCAA doesn’t want itself to become just another professional league. I’m OK with the idea that the best players may end up never playing “college” basketball and that it might actually return to the days where they are STUDENT-athletes and not just PR units for the University they are affiliated with.

However, my belief is that at this point that horse has already left the barn and that you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again....especially when it’s the NCAA administration that is trying to do it. They are almost useless and powerless. They will talked a good game, but in the end I doubt that much will change.

[GIMMFD]

Basically...NBA needs to get rid of the one and done rule, Cheater coaches need to be banned for seasons, not just games, or for life, and NCAA needs to allow agents access to players throughout the players careers....with NCAA oversite. It’s 66 pages long.

I agree with the premise in the report that the NCAA doesn’t want itself to become just another professional league. I’m OK with the idea that the best players may end up never playing “college” basketball and that it might actually return to the days where they are STUDENT-athletes and not just PR units for the University they are affiliated with.

However, my belief is that at this point that horse has already left the barn and that you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again....especially when it’s the NCAA administration that is trying to do it. They are almost useless and powerless. They will talked a good game, but in the end I doubt that much will change.

Not only that, but let's say they want to do it and try to get the ball rolling, they have so many different pieces to try to fit in the puzzle to make it all work, starting with the NBA, but that turns into a butterfly effect, basically affecting all the leagues over the world. With that, even if reform were to happen, it would take so damn long to get everybody to agree to terms and get the ball rolling. I do think they should just let them declare out of high school like in the past, but I doubt the NBA wants that to happen, because they want to protect their investment so to speak by sampling them in a trial year of college, since that game is a step above high school. A lot of headache, and fits, and things won't get done with that idiot Emmert running the show.

[Masterofreality]

Cleveland State is screwed.

Five Year Ban on Prairie View A & M!!!!

Seriously tho. I would say that The Cesspool by the Ohio River sure would qualify under the proposed 5 year postseason ban. Buttttttt......

[bjf123]

The report did say the NCAA should have nailed UNC for their bogus classes, saying the fact that non athletes could also enroll was no excuse.

Not sure about the comment that scholarships be 3 or 4 year commitments so that a one and done’s scholarship would be lost for the next 2 or 3 years. That could really impact UK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coasterville95]

The report did say the NCAA should have nailed UNC for their bogus classes, saying the fact that non athletes could also enroll was no excuse.

Not sure about the comment that scholarships be 3 or 4 year commitments so that a one and done’s scholarship would be lost for the next 2 or 3 years. That could really impact UK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I get that they are trying to penalize the school for one and dones. But if I am a frosh and absolutely put on a clinic on the floor for 36 games, and NBA teams across the country are all drooling over me, and offering to back up the Brinks truck with a first round pick to a great team. How am I supposed to say “no”

“aw, I’d love to come and play for you for untold millions, but that would really put my alma mater in a bind”. - yeah, don’t see that happening

And the school. - these aren’t indentured servants. You can’t force them to play for you 3 or 4 years. You can’t stop them from
Leaving if it’s a legal job offer. Yet your
Program gets screwed. What are you to do, only recruit mediocre to somewhat good players.

And then there is the talk of bringing back the “Freshman must sit out rule” to prevent one and dones. No real playing time your first year. How are they supposed to develop into a college tier player.

[GIMMFD]

Yeah, I get that they are trying to penalize the school for one and dones. But if I am a frosh and absolutely put on a clinic on the floor for 36 games, and NBA teams across the country are all drooling over me, and offering to back up the Brinks truck with a first round pick to a great team. How am I supposed to say “no”

“aw, I’d love to come and play for you for untold millions, but that would really put my alma mater in a bind”. - yeah, don’t see that happening

And the school. - these aren’t indentured servants. You can’t force them to play for you 3 or 4 years. You can’t stop them from
Leaving if it’s a legal job offer. Yet your
Program gets screwed. What are you to do, only recruit mediocre to somewhat good players.

And then there is the talk of bringing back the “Freshman must sit out rule” to prevent one and dones. No real playing time your first year. How are they supposed to develop into a college tier player.

The only thing I have a question about is the NCAA baseball rules, so you can declare for pro before college, or after your Junior year, I guess exactly like football, is that because of an age requirement, or another factor?? If it's an age requirement then I get the "you can't hold this person for 3-4 years" thing by just setting it lower.. if that makes any sense at all?

[GoMuskies]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but baseball doesn't have any age requirement for domestic players (16 for international). You can be drafted after high school (or after two years of high school and one year of JUCO if you find a loophole like Bryce Harper). If you go to a four year school after high school, you're not eligible for the draft for three more years. If you go JUCO, you can be drafted after your first and/or second year there. So someone who goes JUCO out of high school and then transfers to a four year school could, in theory, be drafted 5 times.

[GIMMFD]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but baseball doesn't have any age requirement for domestic players (16 for international). You can be drafted after high school (or after two years of high school and one year of JUCO if you find a loophole like Bryce Harper). If you go to a four year school after high school, you're not eligible for the draft for three more years. If you go JUCO, you can be drafted after your first and/or second year there. So someone who goes JUCO out of high school and then transfers to a four year school could, in theory, be drafted 5 times.

The point made earlier was that you can't prevent players from taking a professional job offer before graduating, I was just curious how the baseball system worked (I don't follow college baseball or even much of the MLB), I was wondering I guess what the wording was for a D1 player at a 4 year school to not go pro if he wanted to after a good Freshman or Sophomore year; is it like the NFL where the rule states the player must be "out of high school for 3 years" so not necessarily an age requirement, but a timeline thing?? God I'm even confusing myself now.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, it's three years post-high school. And it's out of the players' hands. The teams aren't allowed to draft first or second year college guys. I like the baseball system that allows the teams to draft anyone they feel like, and no one ever has to declare for anything. 400 high school kids get drafted but still go to college every year. I just made that number up, but you get the point.

[GIMMFD]

Yes, it's three years post-high school. And it's out of the players' hands. The teams aren't allowed to draft first or second year college guys. I like the baseball system that allows the teams to draft anyone they feel like, and no one ever has to declare for anything. 400 high school kids get drafted but still go to college every year. I just made that number up, but you get the point.

The man is holding me down, +public reps.

Okay, so I kind of get it now, but I don't think the NBA would implement it like that, I could see them doing high school or two minimum, just because the shelf life of an NBA player is shorter (I mean I'm assuming here, I know an elite pitcher will most likely only be DOMINANT 3 years or so, but in terms of age able to play), so 3 would be cutting into some of their years, but again the point with declaring after high school may not work because of the whole protecting their investment spiel I had earlier.

Maybe a way to combat that for NBA teams would be if you leave out of high school you have to play 1 year minimum in the NBA G League?? Raises the competition of the G-League into basically all the one and dones that were gonna get paid anyways, and then the 2 year guys would be the best of the rest that needed to develop some (like how Sumner, and Semaj left, etc.)?? I still think there's a bunch of logistics that I'm missing here, but it's a thought.

[GoMuskies]

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a high school kid can already go pro and play in the G-League without spending a year in college. But maybe they can't get drafted and are basically unaffiliated with an NBA team during that year in the G-League? Not sure on how all that works.

[xubrew]

The so-called one-and-done rule is stupidly overblown. Of all the things that are wrong with college basketball it is totally ridiculous to focus on something that A) is outside of the NCAA's control, and B) really isn't a problem to begin with.

There are roughly 4500 div1 college basketball players. In a given year, less than ten of them leave for the NBA after playing just one season, and because of that everyone totally freaks out. There are probably close to ten times as many that quit playing basketball after their freshman year simply because they decide they don't want to play anymore, or their scholarships are not renewed.

Prior to the one and done rule, players still left for the NBA after playing just one year of college basketball. Granted, it wasn't as many as ginormous number of 8-10 players who do it now, but we still saw it every year. Carmello Anthony played one year and left. Luol Deng played one year and left. Getting rid of the one and done rule won't stop college freshmen who destroy the planet during their freshman season from leaving for the NBA.

Also, prior to the one and done rule, there were roughly forty players who entered the NBA Draft right out of high school in the five years before it was implemented that were not drafted and never played in the NBA, and as a result were ineligible to attend college. I don't see what's good about that. Maybe it's not necessarily bad if that was their choice, but that's still close to as many players missing the NBA and not being able to go to college as there are one and dones who make the NBA.

And, how has this hurt college basketball?? What's the problem?? This commission was put together to fix college basketball, and their top priority is something that does not effect 99.8% of the players who play college basketball AND that the NCAA has no control over anyway. Gee, nice job!!

[xubrew]

...and just to clarify, this was not the NCAA's report. This was the Commission on College Basketball's report (or whatever the hell it was called) of recommendations to the NCAA.

And to be fair, I did think they made two really good points in regards to certifying agents and allowing those certified agents to communicate with players, and to certifying non-scholastic basketball tournaments and camps. The practicality of this is obvious. Certify the good ones and do not certify the dirty ones.

But recommending that the NCAA addresses the one and done rule is like recommending that the NCAA addresses moving the Super Bowl back to the last weekend in January. It's really not their decision.

[Drew]

Let me fix college basketball with 3 simple rules.

1. Be under the age of 25.
2. Be a full time student
3. 4 years of eligibility

That's it.

[paulxu]

...and just to clarify, this was not the NCAA's report. This was the Commission on College Basketball's report (or whatever the hell it was called) of recommendations to the NCAA.

I'm glad you pointed that out, as it would be pretty ridiculous (not that they aren't that already) for the NCAA to say the NCAA should have penalized UNC.

[xukeith]

The so-called one-and-done rule is stupidly overblown. Of all the things that are wrong with college basketball it is totally ridiculous to focus on something that A) is outside of the NCAA's control, and B) really isn't a problem to begin with.

There are roughly 4500 div1 college basketball players. In a given year, less than ten of them leave for the NBA after playing just one season, and because of that everyone totally freaks out. There are probably close to ten times as many that quit playing basketball after their freshman year simply because they decide they don't want to play anymore, or their scholarships are not renewed.

Prior to the one and done rule, players still left for the NBA after playing just one year of college basketball. Granted, it wasn't as many as ginormous number of 8-10 players who do it now, but we still saw it every year. Carmello Anthony played one year and left. Luol Deng played one year and left. Getting rid of the one and done rule won't stop college freshmen who destroy the planet during their freshman season from leaving for the NBA.

Also, prior to the one and done rule, there were roughly forty players who entered the NBA Draft right out of high school in the five years before it was implemented that were not drafted and never played in the NBA, and as a result were ineligible to attend college. I don't see what's good about that. Maybe it's not necessarily bad if that was their choice, but that's still close to as many players missing the NBA and not being able to go to college as there are one and dones who make the NBA.

And, how has this hurt college basketball?? What's the problem?? This commission was put together to fix college basketball, and their top priority is something that does not effect 99.8% of the players who play college basketball AND that the NCAA has no control over anyway. Gee, nice job!!

Great post!

[xukeith]

Let me fix college basketball with 3 simple rules.

1. Be under the age of 25.
2. Be a full time student
3. 4 years of eligibility

That's it.

How would that fix college basketball?
4 years of eligibility doesn't prevent a sophomore from stopping their eligibility and choosing another line of work.

[Drew]

How would that fix college basketball?
4 years of eligibility doesn't prevent a sophomore from stopping their eligibility and choosing another line of work.

Is there something wrong with that?

[XUGRAD80]

Is there something wrong with that?

What something actually becomes is not always what it was meant to be when it was originally designed and developed. NCAA college sports was never meant to be a feeding ground for professional leagues. But that is what they have become. There’s no changing that entirely. However, they can becomes something MORE than just that also. .......

While there is no shame in someone leaving early to join the professional ranks, the real goal of any academic institution is to have the one that enter, FINISH their work there

.......Taking people into the program, that you know are not going to finish seems to be counter productive to that aim. One needs to view the university, and ALL of its departments, as parts of the whole. From the desk of the PRESIDENT of a university, it would not be abnormal to see that graduating students would be the goal of ALL of their different departments. Kind of how the president of a manufacturing company would see the goal of all of the different departments as being the production of a product, and that all the different departments should be working toward the same goal.

So, YES.....from the standpoint of the university being an academic institution, that sees education as its its own reward and not just as a means to a job.....there IS something “wrong” with it.

Now I am NOT SAYING that either everyone needs a college education, or that getting a college education makes someone better than another. But then again, I’m not a college president. But I can understand exactly WHY a college president could see problems with students leaving before they finish their education. I can understand why they do not like the one and done rule. It’s almost a slap in the face of everything they hope to stand for, and hope that the institution they lead would stand for.

By the way....did anyone else notice that DePaul lost a recruit to the South Dakota Insitite of Mines?

[Drew]

What something actually becomes is not always what it was meant to be when it was originally designed and developed. NCAA college sports was never meant to be a feeding ground for professional leagues. But that is what they have become. There’s no changing that entirely. However, they can becomes something MORE than just that also. .......

While there is no shame in someone leaving early to join the professional ranks, the real goal of any academic institution is to have the one that enter, FINISH their work there

.......Taking people into the program, that you know are not going to finish seems to be counter productive to that aim. One needs to view the university, and ALL of its departments, as parts of the whole. From the desk of the PRESIDENT of a university, it would not be abnormal to see that graduating students would be the goal of ALL of their different departments. Kind of how the president of a manufacturing company would see the goal of all of the different departments as being the production of a product, and that all the different departments should be working toward the same goal.

So, YES.....from the standpoint of the university being an academic institution, that sees education as its its own reward and not just as a means to a job.....there IS something “wrong” with it.

Now I am NOT SAYING that either everyone needs a college education, or that getting a college education makes someone better than another. But then again, I’m not a college president. But I can understand exactly WHY a college president could see problems with students leaving before they finish their education. I can understand why they do not like the one and done rule. It’s almost a slap in the face of everything they hope to stand for, and hope that the institution they lead would stand for.

By the way....did anyone else notice that DePaul lost a recruit to the South Dakota Insitite of Mines?

The goal of a university should be to prepare its students for success in the real world. If that results in a degree then so be it, but if it results in employment after 1 or 2 years then that is also a success.

[muskiefan82]

What something actually becomes is not always what it was meant to be when it was originally designed and developed. NCAA college sports was never meant to be a feeding ground for professional leagues. But that is what they have become. There’s no changing that entirely. However, they can becomes something MORE than just that also. .......

While there is no shame in someone leaving early to join the professional ranks, the real goal of any academic institution is to have the one that enter, FINISH their work there

.......Taking people into the program, that you know are not going to finish seems to be counter productive to that aim. One needs to view the university, and ALL of its departments, as parts of the whole. From the desk of the PRESIDENT of a university, it would not be abnormal to see that graduating students would be the goal of ALL of their different departments. Kind of how the president of a manufacturing company would see the goal of all of the different departments as being the production of a product, and that all the different departments should be working toward the same goal.

So, YES.....from the standpoint of the university being an academic institution, that sees education as its its own reward and not just as a means to a job.....there IS something “wrong” with it.

Now I am NOT SAYING that either everyone needs a college education, or that getting a college education makes someone better than another. But then again, I’m not a college president. But I can understand exactly WHY a college president could see problems with students leaving before they finish their education. I can understand why they do not like the one and done rule. It’s almost a slap in the face of everything they hope to stand for, and hope that the institution they lead would stand for.

By the way....did anyone else notice that DePaul lost a recruit to the South Dakota Insitite of Mines?

I know many people who just needed to go to college to take a class or two so they could make it to the next step/level in their career. A one-and-doner seems like this kind of person. Someone who just needs to go to college to take a class or two so they are ready for the next step in their career. There is no intent to earn a degree or complete anything other than a few classes.

[XUGRAD80]

Sure i know people like that too....but if you talk to the Academics that actually run the reservation, prepping people for jobs or enhancing ones career is NOT the PRIMARY purpose of the university...in THEIR eyes.

You need to look at it through ThEIR eyes, and in THEIR view a one and done that only came to university to play a sport for a year is NOT a good thing.

Doesn’t matter what you and I think about it....what matters is what the Board Members and Presidents of the Universities think about it.

[Drew]

Sure i know people like that too....but if you talk to the Academics that actually run the reservation, prepping people for jobs or enhancing ones career is NOT the PRIMARY purpose of the university...in THEIR eyes.

You need to look at it through ThEIR eyes, and in THEIR view a one and done that only came to university to play a sport for a year is NOT a good thing.

Doesn’t matter what you and I think about it....what matters is what the Board Members and Presidents of the Universities think about it.

Lets keep it real. The Board members and Presidents of the Universities don't care about the players or their educations. They see them as a marketing tool or outright business investment.

[SM#24]

Lets keep it real. The Board members and Presidents of the Universities don't care about the players or their educations. They see them as a marketing tool or outright business investment.
Yes and no. There is no doubt college athletics (namely football and men's bb) are huge marketing tools. X has witnessed that first hand. However, wouldn't the marketing go better if you had players that stayed 3/4 years and ended up with degrees ?

[GoMuskies]

I have no doubt that college presidents and trustees care about the education of their student athletes just as much as they care about the individual educations of the rest of the student body. Which is to say, a little bit.

[XUGRAD80]

Lets keep it real. The Board members and Presidents of the Universities don't care about the players or their educations. They see them as a marketing tool or outright business investment.


Sure...let’s “keep it real”. How many board members and university presidents do YOU know?

What’s “real” is that many of them see athletics as a neccessary evil, and while they do see athletics as a way to raise the exposure of the universities, they are still more interested in the education of all the other students and in the image of the university. The question posed was “is there something wrong with that”? With “that” being the athletes not completelimg their education. My point being that those whose life is dedicated to the EDUCATION of young people, and not to the JOB TRAINING of young people...will say YES, there IS something WRONG with that.

I realize that the vast majority HERE don’t give a da&n about the education of the athletes. But the vast majority of people HERE are NOT educators or academics. However the vast majority of university presidents and board members ARE. And it’s the university presidents that are pushing the reforms and pushed for this report.

I think that it’s important that we fans realize that ours is only ONE point of view and that there are others.

[xubrew]

Let's keep keeping it real.

This whole thing is stupid. All this hand ringing over a problem that isn't actually a problem while ignoring things that actually are problems is beyond stupid.

Out of the 353 (now) div1 schools, less than ten of them are regularly impacted by the so-called one and done rule. And, if you think Eli Capilouto thinks that basketball is a "necessary evil" then you have absolutely no business whatsoever telling other people to "keep it real," because you're insane.

If university presidents and the NCAA really cared about players leaving school after playing just one year, then they'd change the rule to say that anyone who is in good academic standing could not have their scholarship taken away regardless of what was happening with the basketball program. Even if they quit the team, they get to keep their scholarship so long as they are meeting the eligibility requirements to keep it. If they really cared about them graduating, then they'd make that a rule. Over 100 freshman basketball players a year leave school. Only about 8(ish) of them are leaving to go to the NBA. Yet, everyone ignores that and only focuses on the very select few who are leaving for a legitimately good reason. What about the players who have the option of remaining in school completely taken away from them?? Why isn't that a problem?? The answer is that the university presidents, as Go put it, only care a little bit, and don't care enough to do anything about it.

[XUGRAD80]

lets do that....

1....The report itself says that players leaving early is a problem......the question then is, "why do they see it as a problem"?


2...To quote the report itself...from page 3

"Lost in the talk of big money and corruption is the colleges' central mission to provide higher education to students"

"The commission believes that the answer to many of college basketball's problems lie in a renewed commitment to the college degree as the centerpiece of intercollegiate athletics."

"College basketball, like college sports generally, is to be played by student-athletes who are members of the collegiate community, not paid professionals"

3.....Who is the commission reporting to? The NCAA Board of Governors.

4.....Who makes up the NCAA Board of Governors? It a 20 person board made up of almost entirely University PRESIDENTS.


Brew....your points are well taken.

But even if its only because of how it effects the general perception of a university....the college presidents do care about how the athletic programs are viewed by the general population. Much of that perception is based on the academic successes of the athletes, along with how the athletes are viewed of as people. The problem isn't always what actually happened....for example, hookers in dorm rooms is nothing new....but the problem is how the public views it, and how that effects donations and government support of the institution.

the whole perception by the general public that "one and done" is a problem....makes it a problem for the university.

[xubrew]

Yes, there are many out there who seem to feel that the best course of action we can take to bring peace to the Middle East is to get rid of the one and done rule. People everywhere attach way too many problems to this rule that are simply not at all impacted by this rule. It's not as if all of this fell out of the sky in 2006. Freshmen players left college before the one and done rule. Freshmen left for the NBA before the one and done rule. High school graduates declared for the draft and went undrafted before the one and done rule. Getting rid of the one and done rule would literally fix nothing. And, it's beyond the authority of the NCAA anyway.

I don't want to get too much into this simply because it's too boring to talk about, but there is an NCAA Board of Governors, and an NCAA Board of Directors. When it comes to legislation and rules, it's the Board of Directors that pretty much covers that. When it comes to decisions about budgets and financing the national office and things like that, it's the Board of Governors.

Truth be told I really don't know what the Board of Governors does. They meet about twice a year for about three hours at a time, and if you look at the reports they seem to spend most of their time discussing what was discussed in the previous meeting. I know this is a cynical viewpoint, but I'm not really sure the Governors do much of anything other than feel good about themselves for being on the Board of Governors. They're not going to do anything about the one and done rule. Well, I guess no one really can other than the NBA.

[XUGRAD80]

Oh yeah....it’s a symptom, it’s not the disease. And it’s an NBA rule anyway. The report DOES acknowledge that it is going to take cooperation among many different entities, including the NBA, to bring about any real change and improvement. Getting rid of the one and done rule would be the result of a greater emphasis on putting the student back into the student-athlete. It’s not that getting rid of the rule will cause that to happen.

Just so you know...

My daughter went to college and works as manager in a payroll company. My son went into the USAF and works as a maintence and repair coordinator for an private jet maintence company. They both make more a year than I ever did....after getting a degree in history and education at XU. College is NOT for everyone and not going doesn’t make anyone less of success. I’ve no problem with kids leaving early for a guaranteed NBA contract or the chance to play professionally. It’s not always a good long term decision, but then again, neither is staying in school always the best decision.

While I personally would like to see more emphasis being placed the student part of the student-athlete equation, I’m afraid that is no longer possible at many colleges and universities.

[Drew]

Sure...let’s “keep it real”. How many board members and university presidents do YOU know?

What’s “real” is that many of them see athletics as a neccessary evil, and while they do see athletics as a way to raise the exposure of the universities, they are still more interested in the education of all the other students and in the image of the university. The question posed was “is there something wrong with that”? With “that” being the athletes not completelimg their education. My point being that those whose life is dedicated to the EDUCATION of young people, and not to the JOB TRAINING of young people...will say YES, there IS something WRONG with that.

I realize that the vast majority HERE don’t give a da&n about the education of the athletes. But the vast majority of people HERE are NOT educators or academics. However the vast majority of university presidents and board members ARE. And it’s the university presidents that are pushing the reforms and pushed for this report.

I think that it’s important that we fans realize that ours is only ONE point of view and that there are others.

As long as University Presidents collude to keep the players from garnering even a small piece of the pie its hard to take any of their moral grandstanding over completing a degree seriously.