Chris Mack discussion

[Xavier2015]

Two things
1) does Chris Mack have the potential to take us to a final four?
2) does he end up at Louisville?

[Caveat]

On one hand, it’s hard to not look at this year and 2016 and conclude “There is a ceiling on this program.”

On the other hand, he can look at his buddy Sean out in Arizona as proof that life isn’t always glamourous with the extreme pressure to win at a major program with national title / final four expectations every season, even with the additional recruiting advantages offered. And that’s before considering the microscope UL will be under for the foreseeable future.

[markchal]

Yes.
Maybe. If he does, he will leave better than his predecessors.

[Xavier]

1) No question. He is one of the best Xs and Os coach in the country.

2) No clue. Wouldn’t be surprised either way

[BandAid]

One thing is for sure, we'll definitely know sometime this off season if Coach Mack is our version of Mark Few or Greg Marshall.

[Xville]

I’d be pretty surprised if he does not leave.

I’m not sure if he can take us to the final four. That’s hard to know

[GoMuskies]

One note on Louisville. I certainly hope Mack stays, but one thing is pretty unique about Louisville among higher profile jobs: they've essentially had three coaches since WWII. It's "essentially" because John Dromo got sick after a few years and had to quit, leaving Howard Stacy as interim coach for most of one season. And there was this David Padgett year. But you can basically get back to WW II with just Peck Hickman, Denny Crum and Rick Pitino as the three head coaches. There are not a lot of programs that you can say that about.

Clearly, the school is not the model of stability right now, but over time there's really not been a more stable high-profile program than Louisville. That may be attractive to Mack.

Hopefully becoming a legend at his alma mater in his hometown is MORE attractive.

[throwbackmuskie]

1- yes,
2- He's not leaving

[GoMuskies]

He's not leaving

Certainly hope that's right. And I also hope the discussion/decision happens quickly. Louisville hanging around in the NIT will probably slow some of that down, because they're not going to announce a new coach until their season ends.

[Billy]

I used to think that he was likely to leave for Louisville after this season. Now, I don't think Mack leaves for Louisville, or anywhere else this off-season.

1.) Louisville is on probation, and the total extent of their own involvement in the ongoing FBI probe is likely unknown to anyone outside of their own program.

2.) Schools don't know what they don't know about Mack, either. For better or worse, fair or not, Mack isn't viewed as clean as he was before the news about Sumner's "loan" came out. And while my feeling is that Xavier won't be among the schools more seriously implicated (I have a source or two), I don't know if he'll be given the presumption of "clean" quite yet.

And if someone's take away from this season is that "Xavier has a certain ceiling" because they lost by 5 points last night as a 5-point favorite, I think that person is probably poor at analytical thinking, quite honestly.

[boozehound]

Go makes some good points. Louisville is a mess right now, and you don't know what kind of sanctions that may be facing. You also don't know how much of Louisville's success is a result of their paying players to come there, i.e. how much 'ability to compete' do you really pick up by leaving Xavier to go to a depleted Louisville?

One thing we do know: They can pay A LOT more than we can/will, so that is always a concern.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Yes, but i have concluded it is only possible when we’re playing the role of the true underdog (4 seed or worse).

Before last night’s game, I would have put it at 90% leaving 10% staying. This morning, I’d put it at 70/30. We’ve all heard the “it’s a done deal” rumors. However, it’s one thing to depart after getting us over the FF hump. He would be welcome back to his alma mater any time. Departing now means his legacy with his alma mater ends on an extremely sour note with unfinished business. Mack was an assistant on the 2007 team when the Xavier faithful let Matta hear it every time he was shown on the Jumbotron. He obviously knows how the fans felt about Miller’s departure. He knows that if one of our own departs, it would permanently label us as a stepping stone job.

Ironically, Sean Miller might be our biggest advocate. We know Mack is going to consult him and there’s a good chance Sean tells him he would do it differently if he could do it over again.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Soooo... Kelsey or Steele?

[AviatorX]

Yes, but i have concluded it is only possible when we’re playing the role of the true underdog (4 seed or worse).

Before last night’s game, I would have put it at 90% leaving 10% staying. This morning, I’d put it at 70/30. We’ve all heard the “it’s a done deal” rumors. However, it’s one thing to depart after getting us over the FF hump. He would be welcome back to his alma mater any time. Departing now means his legacy with his alma mater ends on an extremely sour note with unfinished business. Mack was an assistant on the 2007 team when the Xavier faithful let Matta hear it every time he was shown on the Jumbotron. He obviously knows how the fans felt about Miller’s departure. He knows that if one of our own departs, it would permanently label us as a stepping stone job.

Ironically, Sean Miller might be our biggest advocate. We know Mack is going to consult him and there’s a good chance Sean tells him he would do it differently if he could do it over again.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Soooo... Kelsey or Steele?

Why on Earth would anyone want Pat Kelsey?

[Billy]

One thing we do know: They can pay A LOT more than we can/will, so that is always a concern.

Accurate, and why I struggle so much with the folks who expect the program to reach a "next level". That's not to say that cannot. But expectations should be commensurate with resources. One cannot acknowledge that Xavier can't pay Mack as much as 30-40 schools might, but expect them to make Final Fours every so often. It's cognitively inconsistent.

BTW, the fact that number is only 30-40 is impressive given Xavier's enrollment and overall endowment. Everyone gets a pat on the back.

[Caveat]

Why on Earth would anyone want Pat Kelsey?

The foolish hope that Xavier finally lands someone who wants to stay.

[GoMuskies]

I think Winthrop should want Pat Kelsey. He's done a nice job there.

Xavier? God, no. I'd say it would be Steele for sure in the event something terrible happens.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Why on Earth would anyone want Pat Kelsey?

UMASS did

[throwbackmuskie]

The foolish hope that Xavier finally lands someone who wants to stay.

We already have a coach who wants to stay.

[Muskie]

Why on Earth would anyone want Pat Kelsey?


I'm not advocating for Kelsey, but I'm not sure what everyone has seen out of Steele that would think he's the logical successor. I'm also not trying to bag on Steele. Just asking the question.

[GoMuskies]

I'm not advocating for Kelsey, but I'm not sure what everyone has seen out of Steele that would think he's the logical successor. I'm also not trying to bag on Steele. Just asking the question.

The same things we saw out of Prosser and Miller and Mack that made us think they were the logical successors. It's been a pretty good system to date.

[Caveat]

We already have a coach who wants to stay.

We'll see. An awful lot of "it's a done deal" from people who usually know what is going on right now.

[AviatorX]

UMASS did

Lol. They also hired Derek Kellogg and suck at basketball.

[Caf]

I'm not advocating for Kelsey, but I'm not sure what everyone has seen out of Steele that would think he's the logical successor. I'm also not trying to bag on Steele. Just asking the question.

I don't know much about Steele's coaching to be honest, but what makes it logical to me is recruiting. Bringing in an outside guy runs a higher risk of losing recruits and current players.

[Caveat]

I don't know much about Steele's coaching to be honest, but what makes it logical is recruiting. Bringing in an outside guy runs a higher risk of losing recruits and current players.

They're going to lose a lot of recruits regardless of who ends up with the job.

[Caf]

They're going to lose a lot of recruits regardless of who ends up with the job.

For sure. We saw that with Miller, but maybe not current players.

[Muskie]

The same things we saw out of Prosser and Miller and Mack that made us think they were the logical successors. It's been a pretty good system to date.
Correct. But it was somewhat a system of necessity at the time. We didn't do too badly when we grabbed Matta.

[Xville]

They're going to lose a lot of recruits regardless of who ends up with the job.

Not really a loss..the recruits are not high caliber...they can be easily replaced.

[Caveat]

Not really a loss..the recruits are not high caliber...they can be easily replaced.

They aren't the ones you worry about -- it's the loss of the pipelines the staff has built and the kids they're already tracking for classes in the next 2-3 years that are the worry.

Losing a coach absolutely sucks and sets most programs back years.

[Mrs. Garrett]

We'll see. An awful lot of "it's a done deal" from people who usually know what is going on right now.

I've heard this too. But one source claimed Shaka Smart was a done deal. Please let it be Shaka.

[GoMuskies]

Correct. But it was somewhat a system of necessity at the time. We didn't do too badly when we grabbed Matta.

True, but there's no similar case to Thad Matta that I'm aware of on the market this year. There are a few lower level guys that I like, but no one I'm as confident in as I was in Thad back in 2000.

[Xville]

They aren't the ones you worry about -- it's the loss of the pipelines the staff has built and the kids they're already tracking for classes in the next 2-3 years that are the worry.

Losing a coach absolutely sucks and sets most programs back years.

Miller had basically no issues, neither did matta....i don't really buy the sets programs back years crap.

[Caveat]

Miller had basically no issues, neither did matta....i don't really buy the sets programs back years crap.

Not to disparage the work they did or the players they brought in -- but there are a lot more A10 caliber recruits than there are Big East caliber recruits. When you lose a class, it's easier to find guys to replace them at that level.

[boozehound]

We'll see. An awful lot of "it's a done deal" from people who usually know what is going on right now.

I'm hearing very little of that, FWIW. I'm also not really fishing around for that information, to be fair.

[TUclutch]

Mack ain't leaving but Ill bite on the hypothetical.
IF Mack were to leave, the job would 99% go to Steele. The only other person who would get an interview would be Luke Murray, but due to experience Steele would get the job and Murray would likely become his top assistant like Steele has been for Mack

[Xville]

Not to disparage the work they did or the players they brought in -- but there are a lot more A10 caliber recruits than there are Big East caliber recruits. When you loose a class, it's easier to find guys to replace them at that level.

Maybe....but I think those a10 caliber recruits we had in 04, 08, tu Holloway years would have done just fine in the big east.

As I said..i think mack is a good coach and a good recruiter, but I was a hell of a lot more worried when Miller left than I will be if mack leaves.

[boozehound]

Mack ain't leaving but Ill bite on the hypothetical.
IF Mack were to leave, the job would 99% go to Steele. The only other person who would get an interview would be Luke Murray, but due to experience Steele would get the job and Murray would likely become his top assistant like Steele has been for Mack

Which I would agree with, in the absence of other 'sure thing' options that are not likely to exist for us.

[Xville]

There seems to be a few on here who are 100% sure mack isn't leaving. Just curious if that's their opinion or if they have insider knowledge that tells them so.

Here in Louisville, people are pretty certain that it's done.

[AviatorX]

Miller had basically no issues, neither did matta....i don't really buy the sets programs back years crap.

Are you sure you remember the same early Miller years that I do? Matta walked in to a loaded roster in a weak conference.

[bjf123]

Double post. Sorry.


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[bjf123]

Two things
1) does Chris Mack have the potential to take us to a final four?
2) does he end up at Louisville?

1. Yes
2. I hope not!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GoMuskies]

Matta walked in to a loaded roster in a weak conference.

I'll give you loaded roster. The A-10 wasn't weak at that point, though.

[AviatorX]

I'll give you loaded roster. The A-10 wasn't weak at that point, though.

Fair. The last chunk of X’s time in the bloated A10 has clouded my memory.

[BandAid]

There seems to be a few on here who are 100% sure mack isn't leaving. Just curious if that's their opinion or if they have insider knowledge that tells them so.

Here in Louisville, people are pretty certain that it's done.

Marquette was pretty certain Shaka Smart was done a few years back. Home crowds gonna homer.

[Xville]

Are you sure you remember the same early Miller years that I do? Matta walked in to a loaded roster in a weak conference.

First year was awful due to graduation, after that he was fine.

[Xville]

Marquette was pretty certain Shaka Smart was done a few years back. Home crowds gonna homer.

True...im just curious what others are hearing that makes them so certain, he isn't leaving

[webxu]

If he leaves, I think given our prominence and dedication to hoops along with being in the Big East now, we should be able to get a pretty good candidate list of great coaches, sure may be a stepping stone for some, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. We have got to the point where a stepping stone would need to do something here that hasn't been done.. meaning taking us to the final 4, in order to attract another offering, which I would be fine with. ( I hope I am making sense).

I think Steele and Murray would for sure get interviews, but we are at the point we would need to broaden our search and we shouldn't have a heard time getting qualified candidates.

[Xavier]

Miller had basically no issues, neither did matta....i don't really buy the sets programs back years crap.

I’m more worried about the new transfer rule when coaches leave. If Mack leaves, the whole roster (wouldn’t happen) can leave and play immediately. I’d expect to take somewhat of a hit there. But potential that Scruggs/marshal could bolt is real possibility if Mack leaves and that worries me the most. We could have a new coach and 4/5 scholarship players. A full rebuild of roster

[AviatorX]

First year was awful due to graduation, after that he was fine.

Didn’t they need a miracle 4 wins in 4 days in the A10 tourney to get a 14 seed? Cmon.

[AviatorX]

If he leaves, I think given our prominence and dedication to hoops along with being in the Big East now, we should be able to get a pretty good candidate list of great coaches, sure may be a stepping stone for some, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. We have got to the point where a stepping stone would need to do something here that hasn't been done.. meaning taking us to the final 4, in order to attract another offering, which I would be fine with. ( I hope I am making sense).

I think Steele and Murray would for sure get interviews, but we are at the point we would need to broaden our search and we shouldn't have a heard time getting qualified candidates.

Who are external candidates you’re interested in? Keep in mind X isn’t going to break the bank for a new guy.

[GoMuskies]

I like Steve Forbes if we're talking external candidates. I'm sure there are some others, but that's the first name that came to mind.

[bleedXblue]

If he leaves, I think given our prominence and dedication to hoops along with being in the Big East now, we should be able to get a pretty good candidate list of great coaches, sure may be a stepping stone for some, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. We have got to the point where a stepping stone would need to do something here that hasn't been done.. meaning taking us to the final 4, in order to attract another offering, which I would be fine with. ( I hope I am making sense).

I think Steele and Murray would for sure get interviews, but we are at the point we would need to broaden our search and we shouldn't have a heard time getting qualified candidates.

I don't think you break the model that has been working for 30+ years....hire from within as they know our system and have recruited these guys on their own.

[markchal]

I don't know that I agree with that. It makes sense as a mid-major, but we're not anymore. All of our coaches had to somewhat "learn on the job" how to be a head coach. Do we need that on top of the recruiting reset, in a conference MUCH tougher than the old A-10?

Also, while I think Kelsey is a fine coach, I don't think we need to look for the guy who is going to stay here forever. If it's not Mack, it's not anyone.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I’m more worried about the new transfer rule when coaches leave. If Mack leaves, the whole roster (wouldn’t happen) can leave and play immediately. I’d expect to take somewhat of a hit there. But potential that Scruggs/marshal could bolt is real possibility if Mack leaves and that worries me the most. We could have a new coach and 4/5 scholarship players. A full rebuild of roster

This. Much more likely X players have an immediate impact at Louisville than ETSU/UMBC/Loyola (just throwing hypotheticals out there) have an immediate impact on XU.

[AviatorX]

This. Much more likely X players have an immediate impact at Louisville than ETSU/UMBC/Loyola (just throwing hypotheticals out there) have an immediate impact on XU.

Is this rule even in place yet? And isn’t there a carve out being discussed for following the coach.

[Xavier]

I think the rule stipulates they can’t transfer to where coach goes. It’s definitley in place though. It’s why 8 guys on pitt all requesteded to transfer when there coach got fired.

[Xville]

This. Much more likely X players have an immediate impact at Louisville than ETSU/UMBC/Loyola (just throwing hypotheticals out there) have an immediate impact on XU.

Mg understanding is that X players wouldn't be allowed to go.to Louisville if mack left for there. Plus, has this new transfer rule even been approved yet?

[markchal]

I get that, but it's definitely more fair to the players, since they commit to a coach almost as much as to the school.

[throwbackmuskie]

We'll see. An awful lot of "it's a done deal" from people who usually know what is going on right now.

I will take my info more than “those who usually know”


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[xavierj]

There seems to be a few on here who are 100% sure mack isn't leaving. Just curious if that's their opinion or if they have insider knowledge that tells them so.

Here in Louisville, people are pretty certain that it's done.

Maybe they are right but there is also a good chance that Louisville people look down on Xavier and can’t fathom him turning them down.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Plus, has this new transfer rule even been approved yet?

No, there is no new transfer rule set as of yet. While it looks likely that at some point the transfer rule will be changed, I don't think it's going to be in place this offseason.

[SM#24]

Two things
1) does Chris Mack have the potential to take us to a final four?
2) does he end up at Louisville?
1. Absolutely
2. Unfortunately, I think so to the extent I'll be very surprised if he doesn't go

[SM#24]

Mack ain't leaving but Ill bite on the hypothetical.
IF Mack were to leave, the job would 99% go to Steele. The only other person who would get an interview would be Luke Murray, but due to experience Steele would get the job and Murray would likely become his top assistant like Steele has been for Mack
Why wouldn't Luke go with Mack to Louisville to be Mack's top assistant ?
I don't like the thought of losing Bill as a fan.

[Caveat]

Why wouldn't Luke go with Mack to Louisville to be Mack's top assistant ?
I don't like the thought of losing Bill as a fan.

Yeah, Luke would almost certainly go to Louisville with Mack -- he wants his own program and being a top assistant at a school like Louisville would be a huge potential springboard. You have a chance to go directly into the head spot at another power conference from that job, v. probably needing to make a stop at a smaller school from leaving a place like X.

[XUOWNSUC]

Because I think Mack is gone (and I can't stop thinking about Xavier Basketball), this is who I would consider should Mack leave for Louisville:

The Front Runner - Travis Steele (Associate Head Coach - Xavier)

I like Travis and he has always been great to me (and my boys) when I have met him in person. With that said, I don't think you just hand him the job. I think you owe it to the program to see what is out there. It's obvious that Travis can recruit and he knows the Indy area well. But how is he as a X's and O's coach? I have no idea. Anybody here know?

Next In Line - John Brannen (Head Coach - NKU)

He's done a great job at NKU - how could you not notice what he has done there? I don't know a ton about him though. I'm pretty sure he is from Alexandria, KY.

The Dark Horse - Thad Matta (Former Butler/Xavier/Ohio State Head Coach)

I'm pretty sure that I'm in the minority here (heck, I might be the only one who thinks this especially with how he left Xavier), but I would at least talk to him to see where his mind & health are. Is he healthy? Does he have the energy and desire to coach/recruit again? Would he just quit again in a few years? He recently talked with Georgia about their head coach vacancy - so it appears he wants to get back in. You can't argue with his past success.

The Long Shots

Luke Murray (Xavier Assistant Coach) - I think you owe it to the Xavier coaching staff to at least give them all an interview (if nothing else for the experience of it). Would you really pass over Steele for him?

Mike Pegues (Xavier Assistant Coach) - See Luke Murray. Has done a great job with our bigs. I would hate to see him leave to go to Louisville with Mack.

Ashley Howard (current Villanova Assistant Head Coach, former Xavier Assistant Coach) - You could "hurt" Villanova with this potential hire. Perhaps he could bring the Villanova "culture" to Victory Parkway. But why would you pass over Steele who has been here longer and has stronger recruiting ties locally?

Pat Kelsey (Winthrop Head Coach, former Xavier Assistant Coach) - I'm kind of only putting his name here because someone else will eventually bring his name up. He's done a decent job at Winthrop but not enough in my opinion to warrant the Xavier job. I think he his a good person though - cut from the same cloth as Skip Prosser. I would never worry about Pat doing any sort of shady recruiting.

Thoughts? Any other names? Feel free to start poking fun of my list (especially Matta).

[SM#24]

Why don't we just go the route of St. John's and Georgetown and bring in David West ?
We can pay him more than his NBA veteran minimum and he did partially coach a game this year.

[Blue Blooded-05]

I’ll add a few... Mostly speculative on my part...

Wright State coach Scott Nagy. 51 y/o. Head coach for 10 years (8 at South Dakota St. & 2 at WS). Had 20 win seasons in 6 of last 7 years (only missed year had 19 wins). Coached in 4 NCAA Tournaments with 0-4 record.

Rhode Island coach Dan Hurley. 45 y/o. Everyone knows his coaching pedigree. Yes, he is a Seton Hall grad. Yes, he is and has always been based in the east coast. However, he doesn’t have any less exposure to Ohio than Sean Miller did in Arizona. Head coach for 8 years (2 at Wagner & 6 at Rhody). Had 20 win seasons in4 of last 5 years. 2 NCAA Tournament births with 2-2 record.

St. Bonaventure coach Mark Schmidt. 55 y/o. Should be a familiar name with many on here. Guided Bonnie’s out of Olean-gate to respectability. Also an east coast guy. 3-straight 20 win seasons. 2 NCAA Tournament appearances with 1-2 record (although the win was play in game).

Murray St coach Matt McMahon. 40 y/o. Pretty green, but Murray St has produced some well known names good on the national scene — Steve Prohm at ISU, Billy Kennedy at Texas A&M, Lil Mickey, Mark Gottfried. Only 3 years coaching experience an one 20-win season, but got to the dance this year and is reasonably close on recruiting trail.

Ryan Odom at UMBC. 43 y/o. Will obviously be a hot name this offseason. I don’t know how I feel, since his signature win came with a legendary shooting performance. Only been a HC for 2 full seasons (was interim at Charlotte for half a season), but two 20-win seasons. 1 NCAA Tournament and 1-1 record.

Porter Moser at Loyola Chi. 49 y/o. Should be another hot name. Even HC for 14 years (3 at Ark. Little Rock, 4 at Ill St. and 7 at Loyola). In 14 years only had two 20 win seasons and 1 NCAA Tournament birth. His tourney record is a 2-0.

Steve Forbes at E. Tennessee St. 52 y/o. We all saw what he brought to Cintas this year. 3 years HC experience. Assistant under Bruce Pearl at Tennessee and Billy Gillespie at Texas A&M and Gregg Marshall at Wichita St. Three 20 win seasons. 1 NCAA Tournament birth with 0-1 record.

[Caf]

Hire JP Macura. I don't want him to leave.

[X-band '01]

Lol. They also hired Derek Kellogg and suck at basketball.

Yet Derek Kellogg walks into a wasteland at LIU-Brooklyn and took them to the Big Dance this year.

[Billy]

The Dark Horse - Thad Matta (Former Butler/Xavier/Ohio State Head Coach)


This is the guy I'd want.

[GoMuskies]

i'd love to have Thad if he came with a time machine that made him 15 years younger. I know he's not that old, but his body seems to be older than his actual age.

[smileyy]

Thad has had back problems, IIRC, which will put a bunch of years on anyone.

[GoMuskies]

Yes, therefore do not want.

It's hard to believe Thad was 32 when he got the Xavier job....and 31 when he got the Butler job.

[KFX]

We are lucky to have Coach Mack.

[Xavier]

I love what Thad did here but there is a reason OSU was done with him. Intriguing, no doubt. Maybe a new start is all he needs, though.

[Caveat]

I love what Thad did here but there is a reason OSU was done with him. Intriguing, no doubt. Maybe a new start is all he needs, though.

I'm sure someone will have an example of where it worked, but I feel like the "bringing an old coach back for another round" never works out.

Plus, a Mack departure is going to require someone coming in absolutely hustling to preserve a recruiting class and start building relationships with kids for upcoming classes. I don't know that I trust a 50 year old and recently "retired" Thad to do that.

[XU3232]

Travis Steele would be our next head coach if Mack leaves.. I don't even think it's close.

[Muskie]

I'm sure someone will have an example of where it worked, but I feel like the "bringing an old coach back for another round" never works out.

Plus, a Mack departure is going to require someone coming in absolutely hustling to preserve a recruiting class and start building relationships with kids for upcoming classes. I don't know that I trust a 50 year old and recently "retired" Thad to do that.

Surely you're not forgetting about our conference Bretheren and Dave Leitao. That move has paid off in SPADES.

[GoMuskies]

Not sure in basketball, but Petrino has been fine at Louisville the second time through (definitely not as good as his first stint), and Bill Snyder has been pretty much exactly the same at K-State.

Homer Drew at Valpo also worked out. Perhaps the key is to find a guy who retired and didn't go anywhere else and not someone who left you for the shiny new object.

[sirthought]

Not saying I'd want him, but I'm surprised so many recoil at the idea of Pat Kelsey. Obviously Winthrop is a challenge to recruit to, but he always seemed like someone on the track to being a big head coach. Don't know if he should have 'retired' like he did. Seems to have a good basketball mind. So what are the concerns?

I agree the coaches at NKU and Wright St. should be looked at. The NKU team had an entertaining offense with a touch of Princeton style, but also not a lot of holding the ball forever. I like a team that makes smart passes inside without relying solely on post players.

I also don't know what happened at Georgia, but I always thought Mark Fox was a good coach. Maybe things off the court made it tough to recruit to Athens? He's young and I see him improving someone's chances to win in the near future.

[XUBison]

I'm going to ask the moderator to take down the post that says Chris Mack is not seen as "clean" as before the Sumner allegation. I think its an absolute disgrace that anyone would say that about Chris Mack when there is not one shred of evidence that Mack, Xavier or anyone else did anything wrong. And Chris Mack categorically denies any wrongdoing. I will believe him over some purported "fan" with sources.

Wow, chill. A report on the FBI probe named a former X player for something that allegedly happened on Mack’s watch. That is a fact. To think that hasn’t tarnished the perception of Mack, at least to some degree, is flat out stupid. There is nothing disgraceful with someone making that point, and that’s all he did. Pull your panties out of your butt dorkball, and grow up a bit. You’re dealing with adults here.

[GoMuskies]

Not saying I'd want him, but I'm surprised so many recoil at the idea of Pat Kelsey. Obviously Winthrop is a challenge to recruit to, but he always seemed like someone on the track to being a big head coach.

I just think he's stagnated a bit. I would have liked to have seen what he could have done at UMess.

If you want to see what a big time coach does at Winthrop, check out Gregg Marshall's tenure there.

[Caveat]

Travis Steele would be our next head coach if Mack leaves.. I don't even think it's close.

This is where I'm at. I think if Luke Murray had a few more years under his belt, he'd be a strong candidate too (based on what I've heard from people being extremely high on him as a recruiter and as a communicator), but I think he's just too green to go with over Travis.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I just think he's stagnated a bit. I would have liked to have seen what he could have done at UMess.

If you want to see what a big time coach does at Winthrop, check out Gregg Marshall's tenure there.

With Pat leaving coaching all together for a while during his assistant tenure at X, and last year leaving the UMass job after a day, I think one could question if he would be able to handle a higher pressure job.

[Mrs. Garrett]

Wow, chill. A report on the FBI probe named a former X player for something that allegedly happened on Mack’s watch. That is a fact. To think that hasn’t tarnished the perception of Mack, at least to some degree, is flat out stupid. There is nothing disgraceful with someone making that point, and that’s all he did. Pull your panties out of your butt dorkball, and grow up a bit. You’re dealing with adults here.

Public and private reps for the use of the word dorkball.

[GetUp5]

This thread is super depressing.

If Coach Mack leaves, I don't think there's any doubt we go with Travis Steele. Bringing in someone from the outside just doesn't seem like the Xavier (or right) thing to do. We have a certain culture and it would be an absolutely shame if that left with a coach.

[xavierj]

I just think he's stagnated a bit. I would have liked to have seen what he could have done at UMess.

If you want to see what a big time coach does at Winthrop, check out Gregg Marshall's tenure there.

Marshall is ovepaid, and rides that run to the final 4 well. There is a reason no one takes a strong run at him and he is still in Whicita. No disrespect, but Whicita isn’t exactly a place anyone says they want to spend their career.

[Section 200]

Having spent more and more time in Louisville this year, I can't image anymore agreeing to move there. Louisville makes Cincinnati look like New York!

[paulxu]

Multiple shots fired, on multiple fronts.

[GoMuskies]

Marshall is ovepaid, and rides that run to the final 4 well. There is a reason no one takes a strong run at him and he is still in Whicita. No disrespect, but Whicita isn’t exactly a place anyone says they want to spend their career.

I mean, Alabama just offered him $4 million two or three years ago. So, okay. His name has come up in pretty much every opening since then, too. Since the 2013 run to the Final Four, the Shockers have won 6 additional NCAA Tournament games, including easy wins over Kansas, Arizona, and Indiana.

Maybe he's overpaid, but if so it's because ALL those guys are overpaid. He's earning his keep as well as anyone.

[GoMuskies]

Having spent more and more time in Louisville this year, I can't image anymore agreeing to move there. Louisville makes Cincinnati look like New York!

I'm a native, so I'm biased, but Louisville 100 times out of 100 over Cincy.

[Section 200]

I'm a native, so I'm biased, but Louisville 100 times out of 100 over Cincy.

Well since you in Wichita I guess that makes sense

[GoMuskies]

Well since you in Wichita I guess that makes sense

Sick burn. Wichita is a fine place to live. Not very exciting to visit, though, I'll give you that.

[paulxu]

Multiple shots fired, on multiple fronts.

Return fire commenced.

[Xville]

Having spent more and more time in Louisville this year, I can't image anymore agreeing to move there. Louisville makes Cincinnati look like New York!

Having lived in both for about a decade each, louisville is far superior in every way except professional sports teams.

[Nigel Tufnel]

With Pat leaving coaching all together for a while during his assistant tenure at X, and last year leaving the UMass job after a day, I think one could question if he would be able to handle a higher pressure job.

Did you read in one of the other threads why he left UMASS after one day?

[GoMuskies]

Did you read in one of the other threads why he left UMASS after one day?

I read it, but I certainly didn't assume it was good information.

[KFX]

[QUOTE=XUBison;618562]Wow, chill. A report on the FBI probe named a former X player for something that allegedly happened on Mack’s watch. That is a fact. To think that hasn’t tarnished the perception of Mack, at least to some degree, is flat out stupid. There is nothing disgraceful with someone making that point, and that’s all he did. Pull your panties out of your butt dorkball, and grow up a bit. You’re dealing with adults here


I’d like to see you say that to Coach Mack.

[GoMuskies]

borderline actionable

LOL. I guess if you define "borderline" broadly enough given that you're dealing with a public figure.

[KFX]

LOL. I guess if you define "borderline" broadly enough given that you're dealing with a public figure.

I know the legal standard douche bag. Read the original post closely. Enjoy Wichita.

[LadyMuskie]

A report named a former X player for something that “allegedly” happened on Mack’s watch. Produce the report. Also asshole I’ve been a trial lawyer for over thirty years. Disparaging Xavier’s coach like your boy did is wrong and borderline actionable. I’m the only adult in this conversation by the way.

Yikes! What he said wasn't that bad at all. You're making it sound much worse than what he actually wrote. His point was that Louisville can't risk anymore sanctions or bad press, and a Xavier player, recruited by and played for Chris, received money for playing ball. That might give the Louisville AD pause. He never said Chris Mack did anything wrong or was dirty in any way.

And, if I recall correctly, the article that mentioned Sumner actually did have reports that showed his name. You can google it, but this isn't like ESPN's story on Sean. It was so real, Mack released a statement about it.

Either way, your reaction to the post has drawn far more attention to it than the original post did on its own.

[GoMuskies]

I know the legal standard douche bag. Read the original post closely. Enjoy Wichita.

I do, thanks. If you think what he said was borderline actionable, you clearly don't know the legal standard. Maybe if you were a better lawyer you could retire.

[bjf123]

I really hate this time of year with all the talk about if Mack is leaving or not. It’s depressing and I don’t need any help with that!


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[XU3232]

This is where I'm at. I think if Luke Murray had a few more years under his belt, he'd be a strong candidate too (based on what I've heard from people being extremely high on him as a recruiter and as a communicator), but I think he's just too green to go with over Travis.

Yep I love Luke.. if Mack does leave I sure hope Steele could keep at least one of Luke or Pegues.

[KFX]

[QUOTE=GoMuskies;618602]I do, thanks. If you think what he said was borderline actionable, you clearly don't know the legal standard. Maybe if you were a better lawyer you could retire

Nice. Pretty sure I could retire in Wichita. Then I could take it easy like you and post 25000 times to a Xavier message board out of sheer unrelenting boredom. Oh and go Fuck yourself.

[GoMuskies]

Have a nice life in whatever unlucky place it is that has such an unpleasant prick as yourself as a resident.

[LadyMuskie]

This thread went off the rails in a way I never saw coming.

[boozehound]

That escalated quickly...

[Muskie]

Deep breaths people.


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[GoMuskies]

This thread went off the rails in a way I never saw coming.

Me, either, and my bad.

[KFX]

Have a nice life in whatever unlucky place it is that has such an unpleasant prick as yourself as a resident.

Louisville and Wichita. Big time.

“One note on Louisville. I certainly hope Mack stays, but one thing is pretty unique about Louisville among higher profile jobs: they've essentially had three coaches since WWII. It's "essentially" because John Dromo got sick after a few years and had to quit, leaving Howard Stacy as interim coach for most of one season. And there was this David Padgett year. But you can basically get back to WW II with just Peck Hickman, Denny Crum and Rick Pitino as the three head coaches. There are not a lot of programs that you can say that about.”

Great point. Jesus Christ you must be a hoot at bridge club.

[xu82]

Oh my, things are getting chippy after some serious disappointment. I love our seniors and will miss every one of them. I’m sad they went out the way they did, but life goes on.

[xu82]

Me, either, and my bad.

No worries, we can all regroup.

[LadyMuskie]

Me, either, and my bad.

I don't think you're the one that needs to be apologizing . . .

[xavierj]

I mean, Alabama just offered him $4 million two or three years ago. So, okay. His name has come up in pretty much every opening since then, too. Since the 2013 run to the Final Four, the Shockers have won 6 additional NCAA Tournament games, including easy wins over Kansas, Arizona, and Indiana.

Maybe he's overpaid, but if so it's because ALL those guys are overpaid. He's earning his keep as well as anyone.

I wouldn’t move to Alabama either and Alabama is not exactly a basketball school. I hear nothing but the guy is an ass hole.

[xu82]

On a lighter note, did I mention I met an X fan on an elevator yesterday who had had a “hangover IV” earlier in the day? Apparently for $60 you can greatly accelerate your recovery! Yeah, probably better to be more moderate when X in the NCAA crosses paths with St Patty’s Day.

[GoMuskies]

I hear nothing but the guy is an ass hole.

I kind of like his personality. There's certainly an edge about him, and he skips some of the coach speak. But I know being an asshole is the perception a lot of people have of him. I think by staying at a job like Wichita State he's also fostered that perception. People ask why would he stay there unless he's a dick and can't get a better offer. But you look at his history at Winthrop, too, and he stayed forever when he had other opportunities. He just seems to be a guy who doesn't always think the grass is greener. He's got it pretty great here, and I think he recognizes that. They only times I've interacted with him personally, he was "entertaining" donors (definitely NOT me), so he was on his best behavior. So hard to say for sure.

But I think it's hard to knock his actual coaching achievements in Wichita (and in Rock Hill).

[THRILLHOUSE]

Oh my, things are getting chippy after some serious disappointment.

Welcome to the offseason!

[xu82]

I kind of like his personality. There's certainly an edge about him, and he skips some of the coach speak. But I know being an asshole is the perception a lot of people have of him. I think by staying at a job like Wichita State he's also fostered that perception. People ask why would he stay there unless he's a dick and can't get a better offer. But you look at his history at Winthrop, too, and he stayed forever when he had other opportunities. He just seems to be a guy who doesn't always think the grass is greener. He's got it pretty great here, and I think he recognizes that. They only times I've interacted with him personally, he was "entertaining" donors (definitely NOT me), so he was on his best behavior. So hard to say for sure.

But I think it's hard to knock his actual coaching achievements in Wichita (and in Rock Hill).

Wife is from Rock Hill and my kids went to hoops camp there for a couple summers. My mother in law used to teach biochemistry there, but before Marshall started. I have no idea what the guy is really like, but he’d ask the MIL about the “Florida boys” every time he saw her (granted, my kids were AAU types while the Winthrop camp was mostly day care). He was always very gracious when we saw him. I was surprised he stayed there as long as he did.

[drudy23]

If Mack leaves, Steele gets the job. No doubt.

He will take his lumps like Mack did for a couple seasons, but will be a great hire long-term.

As long as hoops is #1 at X (which likely always will be), they will create a culture and environment for success for the coach. We've haven't been "lucky" with our coaching tree, we've been smart. Resources go to the right things, thus enabling a coaching tree of excellence. Some of it is the coach, most of it is putting them in the driver's seat for success. As long as that continues as the profile rises, we'll be in the conversation.

[Xville]

A report named a former X player for something that “allegedly” happened on Mack’s watch. Produce the report. Also asshole I’ve been a trial lawyer for over thirty years. Disparaging Xavier’s coach like your boy did is wrong and borderline actionable. I’m the only adult in this conversation by the way.

A trial lawyer acting like a big dog...can you be anymore of a stereotype?

[xudash]

If Mack leaves, Steele gets the job. No doubt.

He will take his lumps like Mack did for a couple seasons, but will be a great hire long-term.

As long as hoops is #1 at X (which likely always will be), they will create a culture and environment for success for the coach. We've haven't been "lucky" with our coaching tree, we've been smart. Resources go to the right things, thus enabling a coaching tree of excellence. Some of it is the coach, most of it is putting them in the driver's seat for success. As long as that continues as the profile rises, we'll be in the conversation.

Great post. Well done.

[Xville]

[QUOTE=GoMuskies;618602]I do, thanks. If you think what he said was borderline actionable, you clearly don't know the legal standard. Maybe if you were a better lawyer you could retire

Nice. Pretty sure I could retire in Wichita. Then I could take it easy like you and post 25000 times to a Xavier message board out of sheer unrelenting boredom. Oh and go Fuck yourself.

I sincerely hope you aren't an alum, and if you have that much anger in your life, you may want to consider quitting your job and going to a different line of work, or maybe go to see a therapist.

[GIMMFD]

I think Mack is one of the best X's and O's coaches out there, I think he usually gameplans pretty damn well, and draws up great plays at key times to get quality looks for our stars, not to mention he is by far the best inbound play coach in the country. I believe we'd have a damn good chance to get to the Final 4 with Coach Mack, I truly do believe we have the ability to break the door down, it's just a matter of when now. I really hope he doesn't take the Louisville job, because it means another coaching change. I think it would keep our name out of the "Elite" team category, and move us to just "Pretty Good", we want a coach that was longevity, I'm hoping Mack is in that lull right before his Final 4 here, and growing the Xavier program, hell even Jay Wright went through that phase for a while before he was considered an elite coach.

I'm sure there's a lot of things going through Coach Mack's head right now, and I'm sure he has many options to weigh, it's hard to turn down money that would secure your family for generations, let's be honest, it's tough to do that even if you're at your alma mater. I know that if he does leave, I won't have sour grapes for him, because that is a man who loves Xavier, who led us with passion and pride, and helped grow us into what we are today. I would wish him the best and hope our next coach (I'd assume it was Travis Steele but you never know with these things and ADs) is able to pick up where Mack left off and help us grow to the next level, but at the end of the day, I really just don't want him to leave.

[xudash]

I think Mack is one of the best X's and O's coaches out there, I think he usually gameplans pretty damn well, and draws up great plays at key times to get quality looks for our stars, not to mention he is by far the best inbound play coach in the country. I believe we'd have a damn good chance to get to the Final 4 with Coach Mack, I truly do believe we have the ability to break the door down, it's just a matter of when now. I really hope he doesn't take the Louisville job, because it means another coaching change. I think it would keep our name out of the "Elite" team category, and move us to just "Pretty Good", we want a coach that was longevity, I'm hoping Mack is in that lull right before his Final 4 here, and growing the Xavier program, hell even Jay Wright went through that phase for a while before he was considered an elite coach.

I'm sure there's a lot of things going through Coach Mack's head right now, and I'm sure he has many options to weigh, it's hard to turn down money that would secure your family for generations, let's be honest, it's tough to do that even if you're at your alma mater. I know that if he does leave, I won't have sour grapes for him, because that is a man who loves Xavier, who led us with passion and pride, and helped grow us into what we are today. I would wish him the best and hope our next coach (I'd assume it was Travis Steele but you never know with these things and ADs) is able to pick up where Mack left off and help us grow to the next level, but at the end of the day, I really just don't want him to leave.

Great post.

Continuity is important, so long as you have the right guy at the helm, and we definitely have the right guy at the helm.

Some of the commentary since last night has been interesting. I will just focus in on one thing here, simply for sake of comparison: Mark few and Gonzaga versus Chris Mark and Xavier. Please note the following from Wikipedia:

Mark Norman Few is an American college basketball coach who has been the head coach at Gonzaga University since 1999. That's 19 years folks. That means it took him 18 to get them to the Final Four. Yes, our success has a longer tail than that of Gonzaga, but this is about one coach being allowed to stay long enough to finally achieve a key target.

There is no comparison between the Cintas Center and their place. They essentially play in an oversized gymnasium. The Big East obviously is heads and shoulders above their conference.

You can accept this perspective or not. I wrote last night that we remain on an upward trajectory. So much has to go right in the NCAAT otherwise, but the fact remains that we have all of the key program elements in place, including our coach and his staff.

I hope he stays. And I expect us to MoveOn well. I expect us to win a national championship at some point.

[GoMuskies]

Their basketball arena probably isn't as nice as Cintas (never been there) and is definitely not as big (7k vs. 10k), but it's definitely not just an oversized gymnasium, either. They've invested in some nice facilities out there. They're not winning on accident.

As I said on another thread, I feel like we're right there at Gonzaga 2013 when their first try as a #1 seed got stopped at the same spot. Hopefully, four years later we'll stand exactly where they stood (but we'll outscore our opponent in the last minute!).

[TUclutch]

Travis Steele has reportedly withdrawn his name from the Evansville search. Have to at least wonder if this could be a sign of something brewing at Xavier

[LadyMuskie]

Here's why I don't think Mack leaves . . . he's a family man. Yes, Louisville brings more prestige and more money. It also brings exponentially more pressure to win, and less time for the things that seem to really matter to the Mack family. He really loves being a dad, and he's still got very young kids at home. Calipari, for example, can't even remember his own kid's birthday because he's gone so much. Sean Miller once said at the basketball banquet that his wife and the wives of his assistant coaches deserved as much praise and thanks as the coaches did because of the fact that they were basically single parents for a huge part of the year. That the wives held down the fort at home while the coaches were out recruiting, playing games, etc.and made it easier for the coaches to do their jobs. He mentioned how long they'd go without seeing one another in person. While Mack's family is not with him 100% of the time, they are with him a lot, and I think that's maybe not the norm in this profession. Right or wrong, if Mack starts to slide at a place like Louisville, the first thing that will be pointed to as a distraction will be the family. It doesn't even have to be the real reason, but it'll be used as the reason because it won't be Louisville's fault they can't get it done.

Mack will never be fired from Xavier, and his family is as much a part of the team to all of us as the players and assistant coaches are. He's not making chump change here, and he pretty much has the best of both worlds - an elite, successful basketball program and quality time to devote to his wife and kids. Money doesn't always make the grass greener.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Travis Steele has reportedly withdrawn his name from the Evansville search. Have to at least wonder if this could be a sign of something brewing at Xavier

Saw that. Has he been in the hint for other jobs in recent years where he withdrew his name??

[Caveat]

Saw that. Has he been in the hint for other jobs in recent years where he withdrew his name??

He was in consideration for NKU at one point — pretty sure he pulled his name out of that search.

[JTG]

Travis Steele has reportedly withdrawn his name from the Evansville search. Have to at least wonder if this could be a sign of something brewing at Xavier

Having spent nearly 40 yrs going to Evansville once a month, I would never want to live there. That job is at the Bob Staak stage right now
Hasn't been relevant for 20 yrs.

[xavierj]

Great post.

Continuity is important, so long as you have the right guy at the helm, and we definitely have the right guy at the helm.

Some of the commentary since last night has been interesting. I will just focus in on one thing here, simply for sake of comparison: Mark few and Gonzaga versus Chris Mark and Xavier. Please note the following from Wikipedia:

Mark Norman Few is an American college basketball coach who has been the head coach at Gonzaga University since 1999. That's 19 years folks. That means it took him 18 to get them to the Final Four. Yes, our success has a longer tail than that of Gonzaga, but this is about one coach being allowed to stay long enough to finally achieve a key target.

There is no comparison between the Cintas Center and their place. They essentially play in an oversized gymnasium. The Big East obviously is heads and shoulders above their conference.

You can accept this perspective or not. I wrote last night that we remain on an upward trajectory. So much has to go right in the NCAAT otherwise, but the fact remains that we have all of the key program elements in place, including our coach and his staff.

I hope he stays. And I expect us to MoveOn well. I expect us to win a national championship at some point.

Yes took Few 18 years and will go again this year. I think once you do it, it’s easier to repeat. Hope Xavier doesn’t have to start over again. I think coaching turnover is about to kill Dayton and Butler for a while.

[XUBison]

Sorry, haven’t been on for a few hours. What did I miss? jk... Looks like I may have thrown some gas on the fire. Sorry bout that.

[Caveat]

Yes took Few 18 years and will go again this year. I think once you do it, it’s easier to repeat. Hope Xavier doesn’t have to start over again. I think coaching turnover is about to kill Dayton and Butler for a while.

Interesting thing about Few — he’s one of the few current coaches to achieve significant success without having played college basketball himself.

[GIMMFD]

Yes took Few 18 years and will go again this year. I think once you do it, it’s easier to repeat. Hope Xavier doesn’t have to start over again. I think coaching turnover is about to kill Dayton and Butler for a while.

I don't think we can bank on Gonzaga going again this year, we've seen the parity in the tournament and we've been a part of it, but I do get with what you're saying, it is easier having that experience of it, and understanding the preparation it takes to get there. Few has done a phenomenal job at turning Gonzaga what it is today, and I do think he deserves miles of credit for that. I still think Mack is closer to Jay Wright than to Gonzaga, just needing to break down the first Final 4, how many times did people in the past think Nova was a good team, that just faltered in the tournament? I truly believe we are at the stage Nova was a few years ago just waiting to get to the promise land, and now that they have, the pressure isn't as high, and it can lead to a bit easier of playing when you get to the tournament stage.

Coaching turnover is rough, I agree, and Dayton definitely looks like they're in trouble with it, Archie Miller is a good coach regardless of what people say/think, and probably over achieved at Dayton. It's not like people are dying to play A-10 basketball, which is why we were so excited to get out of there and get to the Big East. As for Butler, I'm not completely sure yet, he had a good first season in terms of getting to the tournament and being relatively competitive. I think both programs need a little transition time, that's just something I don't really want to see Xavier go through. If it is an in-house hire like Steele, who I think fairly deserves his shot for as long as he's been Mack's #2, and the other offers he's turned down, it would make the transition a bit easier, but at the end of the day it is a transition.

[XUBison]

X did a national search before hiring Mack. I recall that the administration thought the program’s money and stature had grown enough to be attractive to a higher level of experienced head coaches. They even flirted with the guy who was coaching South Carolina at the time. If Mack leaves, I’d expect them to do the same thing, even if they end up landing on Steele.

[IM4X]

Did anyone else see this posted about Hurley being interested in the Xavier job if available ... or did anyone hear anything similar to what's being said here?

i thought he was about to take the Uconn job?

https://mobile.twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/975730488261398528

[bleedXblue]

700 WLW reporting this AM that Xavier is working on a contract extension for Mack. They "said" the offer would double his pay..............interesting.

[Muskie]

Travis Steele has reportedly withdrawn his name from the Evansville search. Have to at least wonder if this could be a sign of something brewing at Xavier

Calbert Cheaney (Indiana Legend) is likely to get that job.


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[XU3232]

700 WLW reporting this AM that Xavier is working on a contract extension for Mack. They "said" the offer would double his pay..............interesting.

I find it very hard to believe that X could double Mack's pay.. interesting for sure though.

[throwbackmuskie]

I find it very hard to believe that X could double Mack's pay.. interesting for sure though.

Big East Money

[Xville]

700 WLW reporting this AM that Xavier is working on a contract extension for Mack. They "said" the offer would double his pay..............interesting.

geezus...if true, where is that money coming from? Regardless, interesting indeed.

[scoscox]

BE NCAA tournament credits/fox television money

[Mrs. Garrett]

If true, it's about time the University pays to keep a coach.

[bleedXblue]

Some of you have to get out of the stone age. Xavier is making a killing with B-ball. It is the cash cow and everything revolves around it at X. Mack needs to be the 2.5 -3.0 mil range. If he wishes to leave for more $$ than that.........so be it.

[Xville]

Some of you have to get out of the stone age. Xavier is making a killing with B-ball. It is the cash cow and everything revolves around it at X. Mack needs to be the 2.5 -3.0 mil range. If he wishes to leave for more $$ than that.........so be it.

Certainly don't disagree with this, I have heard even recently how its difficult for Xavier to get to the number of 2.5-3.0, I'm glad to hear that that is presumably not true.

I like Chris, I think he is a good coach and I hope he is the one who can progress X to its next goal. I'm not 100% sure he can get us to that next step, but I would love to be proven wrong.

[BandAid]

Both the Hurley interest and Mack raise reports are interesting and bode well for X (if true). Throw in a great in-house option in Steele and maybe everything will turn out "ok" no matter what happens.

[Masterofreality]

If true, it's about time the University pays to keep a coach.

They have been. This ain’t A10 level and don’t believe McPaper.

[boozehound]

Certainly don't disagree with this, I have heard even recently how its difficult for Xavier to get to the number of 2.5-3.0, I'm glad to hear that that is presumably not true.

I like Chris, I think he is a good coach and I hope he is the one who can progress X to its next goal. I'm not 100% sure he can get us to that next step, but I would love to be proven wrong.

It's probably tough for them to get to $2.5MM - $3MM because basketball funds a bunch of other crap. The program in and of itself is quite profitable as I understand it.

Pay the man!

[Masterofreality]

I find it very hard to believe that X could double Mack's pay.. interesting for sure though.

You’d be surprised

[kellernr]

Can donors contribute to the coaches salary?

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[GoMuskies]

Can donors contribute to the coaches salary?

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Certainly. Hell, that's where almost all of the salary comes from for most of these guys.

[XU3232]

You’d be surprised

Good to know.. I just thought X was pretty much maxed out at around 2M.

[IM4X]

Actually, I love that Xavier has not tried to keep up with the Joneses and let the outside world dictate how Xavier is going to do things. By not going overboard with coaching salaries, X has helped make sure coaches aren't just coming for the money... they are coming to be part of a phenomenal winning tradition... and if that coach chooses to move on, then so be it.

Mack or any Xavier coach who does well, deserves bumps in pay for sure. Honestly, the most fair way for both the university and the coach is to pay the coach a decent salary (e.g.whatever Mack's base salary is now) with added bonuses for reaching certain marks. (e.g. $300k bonus for winning 27 games, $300k for winning BE regular season, $150 for winning BE championship, $100k for making the NCAA tournament, $100k for being a 1 seed in the tournament, $150 for reaching the final four, $350k for being the National Champion. Some coaches already have some similar bonus worked into their contract (not sure if Mack has any such bonuses included in his current contract).

This is a practice that would allow coaches- who do better- to get rewarded more (possible up to a $1m or more extra) and make sure those who don't do as well aren't overpaid. Schools like X can easily justify the bonuses, because they will be getting more free advertising and Increase brand awareness with each of those additional accomplishments.

The idea that a guy like Stallings was hired by Pitt for over $2 million a year, was a disaster his first two years and now has to be paid $10 million just to get rid of him is not the type of situation I'd ever like to see happen at Xavier.

I love that our school has created a situation where many quality candidates are willing to take a little less to be the coach at Xavier because of the incredible winning tradition associated with the school. They know that being associated with Xavier will look good for them and that they won't have to oversell recruits on the possibility that they can win at X and play in NCAA Tournaments or that they will play their games in one of the nicest home arenas in the nation filled with over 10 thousand screaming fans. High school prospects already know it.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

[TUclutch]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

I have also heard this from reliable people I know with knowledge of the situation. The rumors are swirling, so I dont think this situation is going to be resolved in the next week. I certainly hope it is though

[GoMuskies]

Maybe Sean could kick in some of that desert money to keep Mack at Xavier.

[Caveat]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

I'd be very interested to be a fly on the wall (or listening in on the call) between those two, because Miller has done fairly well for himself at Arizona -- but not nearly as well as the boosters / alums of that school expect, and at a great personal cost to his "brand" (even if the current leaked information about his involvement in the FBI investigation prove to be false).

I wonder to what extent (if at all) Miller regrets leaving Xavier. Maybe he doesn't. Maybe the money and prestige that goes with running a program like Arizona really does make it all worthwhile. Who knows.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Hoping this is a money play for Mack, which I dont think anyone would have a problem with, he needs to be paid more. I also understand there is a threshold for X too and at some point they cant compete.

[paulxu]

It's sort of fascinating that all of sports hasn't settled into a bonus situation for large salary needs.
You give a guy (coach or player) all of the money, guaranteed over years with large buy-outs, I would think a little bit of the competitive juice is taken away from any season. Not all of it mind you, but some.

That could be solved with contracts that are set up with good base salaries, and fantastic bonuses for achievement.
Major League baseball could sure use that sort of situation. I suppose deep pocket teams who can just pay the guarantees, keep this from happening.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

Remember when Miller was in this same situation and it surfaced that he was getting advice from John Calipari?

Needless to say, I like this scenario better

[muethibp]

The heads-I-win-tails-you-lose of coaching deals is astounding.

Chris Mack was paid millions of dollars this year. He gave effort to coaching and recruiting and had some success. Isn't this exactly what he was compensated for? Didn't the current contract to which he is a party contemplate he would do the same thing next year for an already-agreed-upon price? Why does some modicum of success entitle him to more now? Particularly when Mack - and every other coach - is entitled to full compensation when the team does not perform well and the coach is terminated.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Why does some modicum of success entitle him to more now? .

Because someone is willing to give it to him, so if Xavier values him and wants to keep him then they would be smart to also be willing to give him more.

Not sure what is so hard to understand about it. Not much different than anything else. If another job wanted you for the same position and was willing to double your salary would you not at least listen? And if your company valued you and wanted to keep you I would think they would at least discuss making their best offer to keep you.

[bleedXblue]

The heads-I-win-tails-you-lose of coaching deals is astounding.

Chris Mack was paid millions of dollars this year. He gave effort to coaching and recruiting and had some success. Isn't this exactly what he was compensated for? Didn't the current contract to which he is a party contemplate he would do the same thing next year for an already-agreed-upon price? Why does some modicum of success entitle him to more now? Particularly when Mack - and every other coach - is entitled to full compensation when the team does not perform well and the coach is terminated.

wow....really you dont get how this works?

[SemajParlor]

Saw Snow tweeting that Loyola MD is taking a look at Luke Murray for HC.

[muskiefan82]

Saw Snow tweeting that Loyola MD is taking a look at Luke Murray for HC.

That worked for them once before.....

[BandAid]

Saw Snow tweeting that Loyola MD is taking a look at Luke Murray for HC.

NooOOOooOOOoo! This is intolerable.

I have absolutely selfish and ridiculous reasons for wanting to keep Luke at X. So in reality - if that is the next logical step in his career arc, I wish him good luck and am happy for him.

[BandAid]

Also, we should all be fans for Louisville to go as far as they can in the NIT. I doubt they would want to publicly discuss their hiring process while games are still being played. Buys X time to find some more cash, strengthen their position, and for Mack to really consider what leaving would mean.

[bjf123]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

I hope it’s true and I hope Chris listens, though I wonder how a private conversation between the two of them would get “reported” unless one of them says something, which I doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[D-West & PO-Z]

I hope it’s true and I hope Chris listens, though I wonder how a private conversation between the two of them would get “reported” unless one of them says something, which I doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never know. Maybe an assistant knows about it and tells a buddy or another staffer who is someones source for info. Those guys reporting this stuff livelihood revolves around getting sources who will provide info not everyone else knows.

[Drew]

I hope it’s true and I hope Chris listens, though I wonder how a private conversation between the two of them would get “reported” unless one of them says something, which I doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sean is likely getting the axe from Arizona, would we welcome him back if Mack leaves?

[D-West & PO-Z]

Sean is likely getting the axe from Arizona, would we welcome him back if Mack leaves?

Not sure either side would want that. But if somehow they did I would but only if he's clean from all the accusations. Not sure there is anyway for X to know that before it would come to that though.

[TUclutch]

Sean is likely getting the axe from Arizona, would we welcome him back if Mack leaves?

Not in a million years

[xudash]

It's sort of fascinating that all of sports hasn't settled into a bonus situation for large salary needs.
You give a guy (coach or player) all of the money, guaranteed over years with large buy-outs, I would think a little bit of the competitive juice is taken away from any season. Not all of it mind you, but some.

That could be solved with contracts that are set up with good base salaries, and fantastic bonuses for achievement.
Major League baseball could sure use that sort of situation. I suppose deep pocket teams who can just pay the guarantees, keep this from happening.

I believe the BCS - now P5 schools - truly got drunk with money and armed-raced themselves into hyper competitions with respect to facilities and salaries. Virtually dumb money, if you will.

Case in point: Notre Dame and the somewhat overweight football coach that now, or was roaming the Kansas sidelines. Imagine Charlie going from South Bend to KU!

As it all moves forward, as television money morphs into what it will morph into and as state legislatures go where they'll go, and already knowing that there are only truly probably less than a dozen of these schools that actually produce significant free cash flow, the salary thing might, or should at least stabilize. Now if someone would please define "stabilize" for these purposes, I would be much obliged.

[T-Time]

Has anyone given a thought to Matta seriously? I don't think him as a candidate is that far fetched. Let's assume the arrogant punk (at age 36) is not the same person anymore and that he was being heavily pressured by the Buckeyes in '04. If we can get past that then take a look at his credentials. The guy can recruit, recruit, recruit. The last 2-3 at OSU may have not been as good, but who really knows what was going on? Remember: Urban Meyer took a year off for "health reasons" and that worked out OK. He is only 50 or 51 and has to have several good years left. He brings instant credibility and gives us a big name recruits will gravitate to. Also, his daughter is a current student at X. Obviously he still holds the school in high regards. Steele is probably the first choice, but give me Matta over Porter Moser/Mussleman any day.

[BandAid]

Sean is likely getting the axe from Arizona, would we welcome him back if Mack leaves?

If he is completely cleared of all the accusations, yes, I would have no problem with him coming back.

I know complaints against him would be his departing press conference, in which he seemed to immediately regret the thing he said (and we're in a much better conference than at the time he said it). And the other spit-in-the-eye moment is what he said to Kevin Parrom while recruiting, to which I'd respond - it's recruiting. Coaches probably say much more colorful things than that about competition while recruiting.

EDIT: We'd also need to add a clause in his contract saying he'd use a zone if everything else defensively is going to pot.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Not going to happen but Miller would be a guy who would maybe not leave again. Already knows the grass isnt always greener.

[xudash]

Remember when Miller was in this same situation and it surfaced that he was getting advice from John Calipari?

Needless to say, I like this scenario better

That was a true story.

Sean initially decided against leaving. It was Calipari or Matta or both that convinced him to leave and take his shot.

Imagine Sean being willing, being torn to leave Xavier while it's an A10 school versus a shot at the flagship land grant university of Arizona, with Arizona's stature at that time.

We're that much more appealing now, and we can pay more as well.

We can't pay AS MUCH as some of these schools, but we continue to make our program harder and harder to leave.

I don't doubt for a minute that Sean and Chris spoke about all this. They're friends. Sean still loves Xavier, notwithstanding the unfortunate "Buick/Lexus" fiasco.

[xukeith]

Louisville pays 7 million.
XU Mack gets 3.5 million.

How much money does it take plus no tv and no ACC tv and no post season for 4 seasons for Louisville.

He stays at X.

[xukeith]

geezus...if true, where is that money coming from? Regardless, interesting indeed.

Tuition is not high enough. Make it $45,000 per student full time. It is the Jesuit way.

[JTG]

Louisville pays 7 million.
XU Mack gets 3.5 million.

How much money does it take plus no tv and no ACC tv and no post season for 4 seasons for Louisville.

He stays at X.

1. Louisville not paying 7 mil.
2. $ 3 to 3.25 seems doable at X.
3. They could murder a cheerleader at center court and not get a 4 year ban. Probably 2 yrs tops, but that can wreck a program.
And finally @ $3 mil I would hope he stays.

[xavierj]

Not going to happen but Miller would be a guy who would maybe not leave again. Already knows the grass isnt always greener.

I had heard that before this stuff hit Arizona that if Mack left Miller was probably the next coach of Xavier again. Miller was ready to leave Arizona after losing to X last year.

[JTG]

Louisville pays 7 million.
XU Mack gets 3.5 million.

How much money does it take plus no tv and no ACC tv and no post season for 4 seasons for Louisville.

He stays at X.

1. Louisville not paying 7 mil.
2. $ 3 to 3.25 seems doable at X.
3. They could murder a cheerleader at center court and not get a 4 year ban. Probably 2 yrs tops, but that can wreck a program.
And finally @ $3 mil I would hope he stays.

[Caveat]

I'd welcome Miller back if his name gets cleared on this FBI stuff. But, I don't think it'd be smart for either-side to revisit the situation. Rarely do these "homecomings" by coaches work out for the best.

Matta? He's past his "sell by" date, at this point.

[D-West & PO-Z]

If Mack gets 3 million a year from XU wouldnt that make him the highest paid coach in the Big East? Doesnt Wright get 2.5?

If Mack gets 3 million, Nova better open their check book, think they are going to have a phone call from Wright's agent as soon as it is a done deal if Mack stays.

[Xville]

1. Louisville not paying 7 mil.
2. $ 3 to 3.25 seems doable at X.
3. They could murder a cheerleader at center court and not get a 4 year ban. Probably 2 yrs tops, but that can wreck a program.
And finally @ $3 mil I would hope he stays.

To add to this and what I have heard:

1.) Louisville paying probably 4 maybe 5 depending on the coach.

3.) Doubt they even get two...maybe one. The ones who think this is going to wreck the program are completely delusional. It may set them back a year or two, but it is Louisville.....they are about as close to a blue blood or even could be considered a blue blood. They will be fine.

Whether anyone wants to believe it here or not, Louisville is a bigger job and program than Xavier..much bigger...it all comes down to if Mack wants the money, pressures and scrutiny that come along with that, and it also being the #1 sports team in town....some coaches want that, some don't...we will see what Mack wants in a couple of weeks.

[Caveat]

To add to this and what I have heard:

1.) Louisville paying probably 4 maybe 5 depending on the coach.

3.) Doubt they even get two...maybe one. The ones who think this is going to wreck the program are completely delusional. It may set them back a year or two, but it is Louisville.....they are about as close to a blue blood or even could be considered a blue blood. They will be fine.

Whether anyone wants to believe it here or not, Louisville is a bigger job and program than Xavier..much bigger...it all comes down to if Mack wants the money, pressures and scrutiny that come along with that, and it also being the #1 sports team in town....some coaches want that, some don't...we will see what Mack wants in a couple of weeks.

The issue isn't "will it wreck the program" -- that's absurd, given Louisville's resources and reputation as a basketball school.

The issue is whether or not the alums and boosters in Louisville will recognize that it *will* result in the program taking a step back for a few seasons and give whoever comes in the opportunity to get the house in order and return things to normal.

[MuskieXU]

I’m sure Sean can speak to the stress and scrutiny that comes with a job like that as well. This was a long time ago, but there was a point where Mack was getting fed up with the fanbases criticisms of him. It would be 100x worse at Louisville. Some think the stress is worth the money, but others are happier with a cushier job.

[xubrew]

If any candidates for the Louisville job asks "who exactly will I be reporting to? and who will they be reporting to? and what will the future role be of the person who works with me to put together my contract?" They won't be able to answer that. Just saying.

[muethibp]

There's a decent possibility that Louisville's recruiting practices could net it a one- or two-year ban from NCAA.

There's also a very decent possibility that Xavier's recruiting - have you even thought about the team that will be on the court next year?!? - will net it a one- or two-year absence from the NCAA.

[D-West & PO-Z]

There's a decent possibility that Louisville's recruiting practices could net it a one- or two-year ban from NCAA.

There's also a very decent possibility that Xavier's recruiting - have you even thought about the team that will be on the court next year?!? - will net it a one- or two-year absence from the NCAA.

One potentially bad class wont keep X out of the tourney for 1 or 2 years if the class after it is a good one. Especially considering the class in front of it.

[chico]

The heads-I-win-tails-you-lose of coaching deals is astounding.

Chris Mack was paid millions of dollars this year. He gave effort to coaching and recruiting and had some success. Isn't this exactly what he was compensated for? Didn't the current contract to which he is a party contemplate he would do the same thing next year for an already-agreed-upon price? Why does some modicum of success entitle him to more now? Particularly when Mack - and every other coach - is entitled to full compensation when the team does not perform well and the coach is terminated.

Simple supply and demand. Louisville is in demand for a head coach and the supply that fit their requirements is small. With Mack supposedly being one of the few coaches that fit their criteria, and the amount of money they are offering is substantially more than Mack could make at Xavier, it would then behoove Xavier to compensate him enough that he will not leave for Louisville.

Also, people do get raises, even it there is a contract in place.

[muethibp]

One potentially bad class wont keep X out of the tourney for 1 or 2 years if the class after it is a good one. Especially considering the class in front of it.

Sure, I guess that's true.

My point was just to say that the overture from Louisville comes at a bad time if you want Xavier to retain Mack (personally, I'm agnostic on the issue though I lean towards a new voice being a useful thing) - he can reasonably conclude that while there are questions about Louisville's future, so too are there big questions about Xavier's as well.

[muethibp]

Simple supply and demand. Louisville is in demand for a head coach and the supply that fit their requirements is small. With Mack supposedly being one of the few coaches that fit their criteria, and the amount of money they are offering is substantially more than Mack could make at Xavier, it would then behoove Xavier to compensate him enough that he will not leave for Louisville.

Also, people do get raises, even it there is a contract in place.

Fine, but it's the one-sided nature of the supply and demand issue that is what I find annoying. I understand that supply and demand compels a raise for Mack. But when there is now no demand for, say, Kevin Stallings, he doesn't have to give back his salary. The supply and demand only exists to push salaries higher, never lower.

[Xville]

The issue isn't "will it wreck the program" -- that's absurd, given Louisville's resources and reputation as a basketball school.

The issue is whether or not the alums and boosters in Louisville will recognize that it *will* result in the program taking a step back for a few seasons and give whoever comes in the opportunity to get the house in order and return things to normal.

I agree, but others on this message board seem to think otherwise. I'm just pretty annoyed with some on here that think its crazy that Mack would take the Louisville job. There are cons of course, but there are a heck of a lot of pros. It just depends if Mack is more Mark Few or more John Calipari, Bill Self, Roy Williams type. To clarify, is he content where he is, or does he want to work at a historical top 10 program and all that comes with that good and bad.

I believe that the alums and boosters of Louisville are going to give the new coach a pretty long leash. They understand the situation that they are in.

[chico]

Fine, but it's the one-sided nature of the supply and demand issue that is what I find annoying. I understand that supply and demand compels a raise for Mack. But when there is now no demand for, say, Kevin Stallings, he doesn't have to give back his salary. The supply and demand only exists to push salaries higher, never lower.

Well, as long as the amount of money programs keep generating keeps rising, compensation will rise as well.

As far as Stallings, the fix was in. The head of the search committee Pitt hired was Vandy's former AD and the man who hired Stallings there. But he got fired, so he's still owed the money that was agreed to by both parties. However, Pitt could've chosen to keep him.

[letskeepitreal]

I agree, but others on this message board seem to think otherwise. I'm just pretty annoyed with some on here that think its crazy that Mack would take the Louisville job. There are cons of course, but there are a heck of a lot of pros. It just depends if Mack is more Mark Few or more John Calipari, Bill Self, Roy Williams type. To clarify, is he content where he is, or does he want to work at a historical top 10 program and all that comes with that good and bad.

I believe that the alums and boosters of Louisville are going to give the new coach a pretty long leash. They understand the situation that they are in.

.
Yeah, the leash is pretty long until the guy is hired and then crazy expectations return. I would really be surprised if Mack takes this but never say never. With high rewards come higher expectations. That's why they pay someone the big bucks. If Crean can get $3M from Georgia, now that's pretty good pay for low expectations.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville has had coaches last 23, 30 and 17 years since WW II. They've obviously been lucky to have quality coaches all three times, but the leash does seem to be a bit longer there than most top programs.

[GIMMFD]

Mack obviously has a lot of different choices to make, he's a Cincinnati guy through and through, his friends are here, his life as he knows it is here, does he want his children to change schools, etc. I know it's not that far of a drive to Louisville, and the resources of Louisville are incredible with private planes, and increased salary, basically anything he needs to succeed as a head coach. But at the end of the day, it's pure speculation what his thoughts on the entire process is. It definitely is stressful to move up to a place that demands excellence, but look at how competitive Mack is, you guys don't think a guy of his nature would embrace a challenge like that? He's so fiery and passionate, I could see him relishing that challenge, the biggest factor for us is that we're his hometown and his alma mater. He has a decision to make, and one I won't blame him for either way.

As for if he leaves and we re-hire Miller, that would be pretty interesting. The tune of the board has changed a lot in feelings for him just by the reports of him talking to Mack and saying not to leave (rumors), but would Miller be a lateral hire? Does HE have what it takes to get us to a Final 4? He recruits Arizona incredibly well and didn't get over that hump, what are we content with? Do you go with a guy that has great regular season success yet hasn't reached the pinnacle (I know majority of college coaches never will, but regardless), or do you try catching lightning in a bottle with Steele or someone of that nature? Do we think Miller will recruit the same amount of talent to X as he did at Arizona, because even though we're in a major conference now, we can't really compete with the resources out there either, we get great talent, but I don't ever see us grabbing one and dones.

As for the money front, I asked this a month or so ago but never got an answer, Mack still gets an extension and a pay bump for each NCAA he makes right? Wasn't that in his contract or am I mistaken? Hopefully we're getting some alumni that are getting into money and can donate, and the Sedler fund is booming. Xavier is making significantly more money in the Big East, but we will never be a program that can pay ridiculous amounts of money. Georgia can afford to pay $3 Million because they have 37,000 students, we have like 5,500.. that's a big difference in terms of money in itself, not to mention Georgia has a football program that just made the national championship and gains revenue like crazy. I think we can give a base salary of $2.2 million or so, and hopefully donations come through to bump it north of $3mil or so, but that's still half of what Louisville can offer.

[SemajParlor]

At this point, without me being privy to any insider information at all, would not be surprised by either outcome.

[SemajParlor]

Lol guys we're not resigning Sean Miller.

[paulxu]

Just as aside, this.
I've emailed Mack a few times over the years, and always got a nice response.
Granted, it may be some grad assistant in his office that handles his email for him.
But I took a moment to thank him for the great year, and his players for representing us all well.
And told him of course that we were (as it seems most years) worried about his tenure, but knew he would do the right thing for his family.
He couldn't have been more gracious in his reply and it came in 24 hrs.

If he leaves, I will miss seeing him on our sidelines. He's the ultimate "X" guy.

(I always thought he'd wait for Duke for some reason)

[SemajParlor]

Reminds me of a funny story. I had a family friend who was a student at Villanova about 10 years ago. After a poor loss (or whatever set him off) him being the stupid overly served 20 year old emailed Jay Wright essentially calling him out for never having any good out of bounds plays, typos - you name it. After seeing his outbox the next day he was reminded of his stupidity and became extremely embarrassed. A few weeks had passed and he didn't get a response and didn't think much of it. Nova ended up going on about a 10 game winning streak and sure enough about a few weeks - months later he received an email from Jay Wright. "Dear Dan, thanks for the passionate support. PS. How do you like my plays now?"

[Muskeagle]

I read it, but I certainly didn't assume it was good information.

Not arguing, but I'll give you a bit more of where my story came from regarding why Kelsey left UMASS. A member of his coaching staff is a former student and player at the school I teach at. His father remains coach and teacher at this school, so the son is in contact with many faculty and others in the community. The former student, now Winthrop coach, told the story to a fellow staff member, and I heard it from the staff member. That is two steps away....so take it for what it is worth. I trust both the former student and my co-worker implicitly....but that obviously doesn't guarantee the story's veracity. Again, I don't care if anyone believes the story or not, but I find it likely to be true given my trust in the two people who told it.

[GoMuskies]

Not arguing, but I'll give you a bit more of where my story came from regarding why Kelsey left UMASS. A member of his coaching staff is a former student and player at the school I teach at. His father remains coach and teacher at this school, so the son is in contact with many faculty and others in the community. The former student, now Winthrop coach, told the story to a fellow staff member, and I heard it from the staff member. That is two steps away....so take it for what it is worth. I trust both the former student and my co-worker implicitly....but that obviously doesn't guarantee the story's veracity. Again, I don't care if anyone believes the story or not, but I find it likely to be true given my trust in the two people who told it.

I also didn't assume it was bad information.

[xu82]

Reports are Miller reached out to Mack and told him not to leave X.

I would bear hug him in his soaking wet game day shirt for such a sensible act!

Hell, I’d switch shirts with him!

[Muskeagle]

I also didn't assume it was bad information.

Didn't figure you did....I was just offering a bit more info.

[D-West & PO-Z]

As for if he leaves and we re-hire Miller, that would be pretty interesting. The tune of the board has changed a lot in feelings for him just by the reports of him talking to Mack and saying not to leave (rumors), but would Miller be a lateral hire?

Wait I'm confused, you think if Mack leaves we will be making a better hire than Mack? A lateral hire would amazing if we would be able to make one and I'm not even talking about Miller. If Mack leaves we will be doing nothing but making a hire who worse (at least in this moment) than Mack.

[bleedXblue]

Wait I'm confused, you think if Mack leaves we will be making a better hire than Mack? A lateral hire would amazing if we would be able to make one and I'm not even talking about Miller. If Mack leaves we will be doing nothing but making a hire who worse (at least in this moment) than Mack.

sez Prosser when Pete left / sez Thad when Prosser left / sez Sean when Matta left / sez Mack when Miller left .....

just sayin

[Caveat]

sez Prosser when Pete left / sez Thad when Prosser left / sez Sean when Matta left / sez Mack when Miller left .....

just sayin

The more accurate thing to say is that X will almost certainly be hiring a coach with more question marks / less accomplishment than Chris Mack.

Travis Steele may be an even better coach than Chris Mack — but as of right now, he isn’t in the same universe as Mack is (for very obvious reasons).

[D-West & PO-Z]

sez Prosser when Pete left / sez Thad when Prosser left / sez Sean when Matta left / sez Mack when Miller left .....

just sayin

That is why I said in that moment of the hiring. We wont be hiring anyone as accomplished as Chris Mack lets say. Not that our next hire couldnt have that potential. But as Caveat said, more question marks for sure.

[bleedXblue]

That is why I said in that moment of the hiring. We wont be hiring anyone as accomplished as Chris Mack lets say. Not that our next hire couldnt have that potential. But as Caveat said, more question marks for sure.

isn't that obvious?

[GIMMFD]

Wait I'm confused, you think if Mack leaves we will be making a better hire than Mack? A lateral hire would amazing if we would be able to make one and I'm not even talking about Miller. If Mack leaves we will be doing nothing but making a hire who worse (at least in this moment) than Mack.

Oh no no no, I don't think we're going to get anybody even as close to as accomplished as Mack, I guess I worded that poorly. I meant potential wise, do we think he's good enough to get us to a Final 4, you know? If he can't do it at Arizona, what makes us think he can do it at Xavier (no offense to X, it's just resources wise, we're kind of lacking).. with that thought process, wouldn't it be better to try to hire someone with a lot of potential (such as Steele, someone unproven, or at a slightly smaller places with a good IQ for the game), over what we know. We know Miller is a good coach and good recruiter, but he hasn't gotten to the Final 4, and isn't that our goal here?

[D-West & PO-Z]

isn't that obvious?

I thought so......

[D-West & PO-Z]

Oh no no no, I don't think we're going to get anybody even as close to as accomplished as Mack, I guess I worded that poorly. I meant potential wise, do we think he's good enough to get us to a Final 4, you know? If he can't do it at Arizona, what makes us think he can do it at Xavier (no offense to X, it's just resources wise, we're kind of lacking).. with that thought process, wouldn't it be better to try to hire someone with a lot of potential (such as Steele, someone unproven, or at a slightly smaller places with a good IQ for the game), over what we know. We know Miller is a good coach and good recruiter, but he hasn't gotten to the Final 4, and isn't that our goal here?

I see, thanks.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Just as aside, this.
I've emailed Mack a few times over the years, and always got a nice response.
Granted, it may be some grad assistant in his office that handles his email for him.
But I took a moment to thank him for the great year, and his players for representing us all well.
And told him of course that we were (as it seems most years) worried about his tenure, but knew he would do the right thing for his family.
He couldn't have been more gracious in his reply and it came in 24 hrs.

If he leaves, I will miss seeing him on our sidelines. He's the ultimate "X" guy.

(I always thought he'd wait for Duke for some reason)

Thanks for the idea Paul. I emailed Coach Mack about a little over an hour ago. Got a nice response in 21 minutes. I too was thinking probably some grad assistant but the bottom said sent from my iphone so maybe it really is Mack responding? Who knows, nice either way.

Good news is.....he still has an active XU email account.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Louisville down big in the 3rd quarter of NIT. If they lose I feel like we will know one way or the other by the end of the week.

[LadyMuskie]

Just as aside, this.
I've emailed Mack a few times over the years, and always got a nice response.
Granted, it may be some grad assistant in his office that handles his email for him.
But I took a moment to thank him for the great year, and his players for representing us all well.
And told him of course that we were (as it seems most years) worried about his tenure, but knew he would do the right thing for his family.
He couldn't have been more gracious in his reply and it came in 24 hrs.

If he leaves, I will miss seeing him on our sidelines. He's the ultimate "X" guy.

(I always thought he'd wait for Duke for some reason)

I did this after The Run. Received a handwritten note back from Thad Matta (which I still have) about how special X and how great our fan base is, etc. etc. And then he left, and not in the best way. I've never done it again just in case it was some sort of a jinx.

Also, my dad is absolutely convinced the only job Mack'll leave for is Duke.

[GoMuskies]

Louisville is getting pounded in the NIT, so whatever action there's going to be should start to pick up tomorrow.

[KabeX]

Conspiracy Theorist - Wonder if they're tanking on purpose ... nah they just suck. Bad for us.

[Muskeagle]

Yeah, not a good day for the home teams in the #4 v. #2 games. Penn St. went into Marquette for the win. Miss. St. with the beat down on U of L.

[JTG]

Oh no no no, I don't think we're going to get anybody even as close to as accomplished as Mack, I guess I worded that poorly. I meant potential wise, do we think he's good enough to get us to a Final 4, you know? If he can't do it at Arizona, what makes us think he can do it at Xavier (no offense to X, it's just resources wise, we're kind of lacking).

Stop it, just stop it ! Butler went to 2 Final Fours with resources less than some DIII schools.

[GIMMFD]

Stop it, just stop it ! Butler went to 2 Final Fours with resources less than some DIII schools.

Yes, with Brad Stevens, one of the best coaches in the game, look at what he's done with the Celtics, I'd argue he's overachieved even in a weak Eastern Conference.. I'm saying Sean Miller had a plethora of 5 star recruits, and all that to his disposal, the talent he had on those Arizona teams were higher than that of X, I'm not saying it counts the heart, determination, passion, etc, but purely athleticism standpoint, they were better in that regard. My question wasn't really Xavier as a brand, it was more so does Sean Miller have the ability to coach a SLIGHTLY lesser talent pool to a Final 4.

[Xavier]

I think Miller works better with 3-4 year players. Obviously he doesn't want to pass on the type of talent that leaves after one or two years (who would) but when he can have more time molding very talented guys for 3-4 years into his system he is better off than getting in the one and done game. In other words, I think he would bring Xavier a final four if given the opportunity to coach here again (which is extremely unlikely).

*I think Mack has the ability to bring X to a final four as well.

[Xville]

Personally, and it's probably an unpopular opinion on here but I think Miller is a better coach than Mack so I would take him back if he wanted to come back and we had an opening.

While he was coach here, he valued defense and the development of his players in year 2-4 was impressive.

[xukeith]

Personally, and it's probably an unpopular opinion on here but I think Miller is a better coach than Mack so I would take him back if he wanted to come back and we had an opening.

While he was coach here, he valued defense and the development of his players in year 2-4 was impressive.

Miller was always my favorite X coach.
Mack strongly grew on me and he too is a great coach.
If X could get a one and done player, we would. It is all about promoting the basketball team to reach the highest level and that has always helped X gain students and rebuild the campus.

[paulxu]

Also, my dad is absolutely convinced the only job Mack'll leave for is Duke.

Us old guys think alike.

[Masterofreality]

Personally, and it's probably an unpopular opinion on here but I think Miller is a better coach than Mack so I would take him back if he wanted to come back and we had an opening.

While he was coach here, he valued defense and the development of his players in year 2-4 was impressive.

Except on out of bounds plays and plays coming out of a time out.

[beatuc]

What I don't understand is how every message board, and rumor about the almost certainty that Mack is leaving for Louisville and the Enquirer is dead silent. How are they are not pursuing this at all? I feel he is 100% percent going from what I have heard from someone who doesn't make stuff up and knows some of the right people that would have that info. In Nashville I was told of the particulars of the deal, and I didn't want to believe it but it comes from someone I trust not to just throw something against the wall. Where the hell is the enquirer as I most assuredly know they have heard whispers as well.

[drudy23]

I don't think he's going anywhere, nor have I seen anything that makes me believe he's going anywhere.

I don't believe any of this "I heard from a credible source" crap.

[beatuc]

I don't think he's going anywhere, nor have I seen anything that makes me believe he's going anywhere.

I don't believe any of this "I heard from a credible source" crap.

I don't want to either, but it's tough coming from someone who never makes crap up. You even have Steve Flesch weighing in. I'm not certain that he is going, but if I was forced to bet I would bet he is going.

[nuts4xu]

What I don't understand is how every message board, and rumor about the almost certainty that Mack is leaving for Louisville and the Enquirer is dead silent. How are they are not pursuing this at all? I feel he is 100% percent going from what I have heard from someone who doesn't make stuff up and knows some of the right people that would have that info. In Nashville I was told of the particulars of the deal, and I didn't want to believe it but it comes from someone I trust not to just throw something against the wall. Where the hell is the enquirer as I most assuredly know they have heard whispers as well.

They don’t care, they have like 4 people working there and our best writer is likely freelancing for some blog right now instead. This ain’t the 1990’s when Xavier had dedicated writers, we are lucky to get a mention when anything happens. Nowadays you are better off reading the scout board than the Enquirer if you want info on Chris Mack and our program.

[Masterofreality]

They don’t care, they have like 4 people working there and our best writer is likely freelancing for some blog right now instead. This ain’t the 1990’s when Xavier had dedicated writers, we are lucky to get a mention when anything happens. Nowadays you are better off reading the scout board than the Enquirer if you want info on Chris Mack and our program.

Yup. And Shannon Russell on the Athletic

[bleedXblue]

I don't want to either, but it's tough coming from someone who never makes crap up. You even have Steve Flesch weighing in. I'm not certain that he is going, but if I was forced to bet I would bet he is going.

Steve Flesch? You have to be fuc&*ng kidding me right?

[Xville]

One of two things is going to happen; Xavier announces an extension and raise for mack, or Louisville announces they hired mack. The rest of this stuff and until one of the two happens is simply just rumor and quite frankly bs.

[GoMuskies]

Steve Flesch? You have to be fuc&*ng kidding me right?

Isn't that a PGA golfer?

[bleedXblue]

Isn't that a PGA golfer?

He was at one time....I dont think he is anymore

[Caf]

What I don't understand is how every message board, and rumor about the almost certainty that Mack is leaving for Louisville and the Enquirer is dead silent.


Here's (https://twitter.com/PBrennanENQ/status/975583955553579009) the Enquirer's Xavier "beat writer" less than an hour after the final buzzer slapping Cincinnati basketball in the face. Pretty much all you need to know. The Enquirer decided they didn't, or couldn't, care about covering Xavier the second they replaced Shannon Russell with this goon. Garbage in, garbage out.

[SemajParlor]

Yeah, he gone.

[mistabeecee41]

i thought we were nuts, louisville fans make us look normal

https://twitter.com/CardsLou/status/976253778742652934

[whopper]

I just re upped my paid subscription to this great blog. Let's hope Mack stays as I think almost all commenters do. He can coach us to the final 4 and if we hit our normal foul shot percentage, of FSU hits their normal percentage of 68% we win. J.P.s fouls 3 and 4 (clearly phantom) killed us and I think many suspect why there were called (history and anticipation). We will be good next year and I have found being a consistent fan (going back to the Love/Walker Bulls) gives me a lot more pleasure than jumping all over the place. This was a very special year and a sad ending

[D-West & PO-Z]

Does anyone know the Venmo account for Xavier Men's basketball!?

[BandAid]

I always find it comically amusing how we as fans track flights, restaurant stops, and the like to try to ascertain what's going with these job openings. I'd be terribly bummed if Mack left, but if one simply take a step back and looks at how we over-analyze every single detail it's pretty fantastic. We awkwardly stalk these coaches more than a middle school boy does the hot high school senior girl.

[Caveat]

I always find it comically amusing how we as fans track flights, restaurant stops, and the like to try to ascertain what's going with these job openings. I'd be terribly bummed if Mack left, but if one simply take a step back and looks at how we over-analyze every single detail it's pretty fantastic. We awkwardly stalk these coaches more than a middle school boy does the hot high school senior girl.

Mostly because the fortunes or successes of entire programs often rise and fall on who happens to be at the helm.

No team is really immune -- one bad hire can send things into a tailspin.

[X-band '01]

Here's (https://twitter.com/PBrennanENQ/status/975583955553579009) the Enquirer's Xavier "beat writer" less than an hour after the final buzzer slapping Cincinnati basketball in the face. Pretty much all you need to know. The Enquirer decided they didn't, or couldn't, care about covering Xavier the second they replaced Shannon Russell with this goon. Garbage in, garbage out.

FC Cincinnati is a huge deal whether Xavier fans want to acknowledge that or not.

[BandAid]

Mostly because the fortunes or successes of entire programs often rise and fall on who happens to be at the helm.

No team is really immune -- one bad hire can send things into a tailspin.

Oh no, I understand why programs obsess like this. It’s just slightly silly looking at it from the outside. It’s our own miniature espn/Brett favre retirement saga.

[SemajParlor]

FC Cincinnati is a huge deal whether Xavier fans want to acknowledge that or not.

Xavier alum who doesn't live in Cincinnati or its surrounding area here . It really isn't.

[Caveat]

Xavier alum who doesn't live in Cincinnati or its surrounding area here . It really isn't.

Outside Cincinnati metro? Sure.

Inside Cincinnati metro? FC Cincinnati is a massive deal. I see more people walking around in FCC gear these days than any other local sports, outside of *maybe* the Reds.

[Caf]

FC Cincinnati is a huge deal whether Xavier fans want to acknowledge that or not.

Big deal or not, it's obvious this guy's passion is with FCC and that's where he puts his focus. That's why he tweeted that, and that's why there's no reporting on Mack.

[Caveat]

Big deal or not, it's obvious this guy's passion is with FCC and that's where he puts his focus. That's why he tweeted that, and that's why there's no reporting on Mack.

More than likely there is no reporting going on about Mack because no one is willing to go on the record (or even speak on background) about what is going on right now.

[Muskie]

There will be a press conference today at 3P to discuss the future of David Padgett.