A reason to be worried or haters hating?

[bjf123]

How’s this for an out in left field theory? Sean said all money talk should go through him so he could tell the agent to take a hike and keep his money.


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[bobbiemcgee]

Shaq's kid de-commits from AZ.

[GIMMFD]

That's good to know. I know I've heard stories of players being hungry at times at other schools, but that could be because they had issues with bureaucratic mismanagement while Xavier has managed the situation well.

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I lived with athletes, and they usually got a good meal before games, etc. A lot of sports analytics are being done in this day and age telling you about sleep, recovery, your diet, etc. These guys definitely have access to meals at Xavier, and even living off campus all of my roommates had meal plans as well, we may not have had outrageous funds for beer, but I can assure you that they were eating just fine.

[ervinsm84]

The only thing that can possibly be in play is that money never changed hands, or they know there is zero evidence that money ever changed hands. What else is there, besides Miller saying the wiretap "wasn't me".

Either way, I'm completely shocked they are letting Ayton play. How can he continue to play, and how can the games they've played, and their post season not be in jeopardy with his playing?


The shaggy defense only gets you so far.

[X Factor]

The only thing that can possibly be in play is that money never changed hands, or they know there is zero evidence that money ever changed hands. What else is there, besides Miller saying the wiretap "wasn't me".

Either way, I'm completely shocked they are letting Ayton play. How can he continue to play, and how can the games they've played, and their post season not be in jeopardy with his playing?

Money doesn't or didn't have to change hands for their to be crimes. Wouldn't that fall under "conspiracy to commit"? They talked about it and had a deal, but money never exchanged hands....but then why would Ayton still attend Arizona?

[Xavier]

Money doesn't or didn't have to change hands for their to be crimes. Wouldn't that fall under "conspiracy to commit"? They talked about it and had a deal, but money never exchanged hands....but then why would Ayton still attend Arizona?

I think the main part drudy is saying is that they know there is zero evidence to the money changing hands- or at the very least it will be extremely difficult to find that evidence. Not necessarily that money never changed hands. At that point, much like UNC, AZ will force the NCAA to find the evidence....

which is even more shocking they aren't letting him coach tonight.

[Billy]

From what you’re hearing, is the worst of it over for Xavier?

I've been lead to believe that the exposure Xavier has within the investigation is not devastating. However, I certainly don't have a comprehensive view of what the FBI might have. So I probably can't answer that exact question.

[Billy]

Miller releases a statement saying he is confident he will be vindicated. What the hell is going on? If he turns out to be right, the folks at ESPN have some explaining and apologizing to do...especially Bilas and Vitale.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, is more careful about reporting than ESPN. Just sayin'.

[Nigel Tufnel]

The only thing that can possibly be in play is that money never changed hands, or they know there is zero evidence that money ever changed hands. What else is there, besides Miller saying the wiretap "wasn't me".

Either way, I'm completely shocked they are letting Ayton play. How can he continue to play, and how can the games they've played, and their post season not be in jeopardy with his playing?

Makes one wonder if Arizona and Miller know something that nobody else does....

[xu82]

I think the main part drudy is saying is that they know there is zero evidence to the money changing hands- or at the very least it will be extremely difficult to find that evidence. Not necessarily that money never changed hands. At that point, much like UNC, AZ will force the NCAA to find the evidence....

which is even more shocking they aren't letting him coach tonight.

A spread sheet doesn’t prove much, but the FBI has the power to get damaging bank records. A few thousand is easy. Six figures doesn’t happen in a brown paper bag. Miller is toast, I’m assuming. Follow the money.

[xu82]

Makes one wonder if Arizona and Miller know something that nobody else does....

I know NOTHING, but I’m both concerned and fascinated in the way a car wreck affects you. Please don’t feel the need to bash me for wondering, caring, and thinking out loud. I hate to think they were corrupt AND stupid about it. But I DO want the “direct cheating” punished severely.

[bjf123]

I’m curious about the original source of the funds and how it ultimately gets to the recruits / players. It can’t be checks. Even if they do wire transfers or ACHs, there’s a banking trail. That leaves cash and you can’t really walk into a bank with more than $10,000 and not have to complete a lot of paperwork.


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[Juice]

A spread sheet doesn’t prove much, but the FBI has the power to get damaging bank records. A few thousand is easy. Six figures doesn’t happen in a brown paper bag. Miller is toast, I’m assuming. Follow the money.

They have them on a wiretap which is even worse.

[Roach]

Given how many high profile programs and players have been implicated, I really don’t expect X’s apparent infraction to be much of a black eye. The scandal is so pervasive and far reaching that it’s beginning to remind me of the steroid era in MLB. Everyone was doing it, so how can you really wipe the slate clean? If X gets an asterisk, it’ll accompany asterisks at dozens of other programs.

[xu82]

They have them on a wiretap which is even worse.

Sorry, that was my point. Someone was speculating that it never got paid. Regardless, he’s toast.

[ervinsm84]

A spread sheet doesn’t prove much, but the FBI has the power to get damaging bank records. A few thousand is easy. Six figures doesn’t happen in a brown paper bag. Miller is toast, I’m assuming. Follow the money.
Fwiw $100k cash doesn't take up that much space and could easily be in a small brown bag, as long as it's all in 100 dollar bills

[XUBison]

Tell me where I said "starving"? Hungry at times, yes, that's quite possible. Starving? No. Don't go making strawman arguments.

And considering that these guys consume over 1000 calories more per day than the average college student, the situation is not typical.

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Ummm, whatever. I thought your point is that universities don’t provide their student athletes adequate access to proper sustenance. My point is that this is bullshit. You may argue semantics all you want, but do me a favor in the meantime... Google “straw man argument” so you understand what the term means.

[XUBison]

The whole story was unnamed sources....who knows if ESPN even heard the phone call. The FBI didn't leak the wiretap, so it was likely Dawkins' attorney...so there may be some issues with credibility. Ayton is playing tonight. The Miller statement was on Arizona letterhead, so, at this point, Zona is backing Miller. This is crazy.


Wow... the prospect of ESPN reporting this sort of career killing Info without being damn sure the report is accurate is hard to fathom. They are not reporting vague generalities about Miller. They are reporting specific details from an FBI wiretapped conversation, the contents of which are damaging to several parties. I know the media often goes unscathed by bad reporting, but the particular nature of this story seems like it would open them up to quite a lawsuit if their reporting deliberately took erroneous liberties that damage Miller, players, the U of A, etc.

[Blue Blooded-05]

Fwiw $100k cash doesn't take up that much space and could easily be in a small brown bag, as long as it's all in 100 dollar bills

Yeah but think about it... if all these $100K bags of cash are getting dropped off with no strings attached... year after year... someone somewhere would have been a dumbass about spending it and blowing cover.

Makes you wonder if the school doesn’t also make arrangements to help them launder it. Would be interesting to see how many car washes or laser tag business have been opened by family members of high level recruits over the years.

[xudash]

Patton wanted to start a fight with the Russians while making it look like it was their fault.

I see an opportunity to pin all this on Archie Miller and VD.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Wow... the prospect of ESPN reporting this sort of career killing Info without being damn sure the report is accurate is hard to fathom. They are not reporting vague generalities about Miller. They are reporting specific details from an FBI wiretapped conversation, the contents of which are damaging to several parties. I know the media often goes unscathed by bad reporting, but the particular nature of this story seems like it would open them up to quite a lawsuit if their reporting deliberately took erroneous liberties that damage Miller, players, the U of A, etc.

I agree. Wouldn’t it be crazy if Book got busted but Miller’s knowledge couldn’t be proven, but he decided to cooperate with the Feds to bring down ASM? That would be insane...that’s a crazy theory, but it would explain why Miller allegedly said to Dawkins that all dealings go specifically through him. Who would be dumb enough to say that on the phone? If Miller is...well, he deserves whatever he gets.

[xu82]

Fwiw $100k cash doesn't take up that much space and could easily be in a small brown bag, as long as it's all in 100 dollar bills

It’s not just the volume. It can be done with planning, but any cash transaction $10k and up, or anything suspicious (even below $10K), get reported on a currency transaction report. Criminals try to avoid going on record like that. Still, I’m sure there are ways....

[paulxu]

From those logs (sorry I can't access the Yahoo story without my computer going crazy with some bogus fraud alert nonsense), could someone tell me what the date was that Sumner's dad took money?

(or maybe it was in a post and I didn't see it)

Thanks!

[Nigel Tufnel]

From those logs (sorry I can't access the Yahoo story without my computer going crazy with some bogus fraud alert nonsense), could someone tell me what the date was that Sumner's dad took money?

(or maybe it was in a post and I didn't see it)

Thanks!

The same day X was beating Nova for their only win against them.

[paulxu]

Thanks Nigel. That was 2 years ago, and for some reason I was thinking the payment was last year.

[XUFan09]

Ummm, whatever. I thought your point is that universities don’t provide their student athletes adequate access to proper sustenance. My point is that this is bullshit. You may argue semantics all you want, but do me a favor in the meantime... Google “straw man argument” so you understand what the term means.

Thanks, I don't need to Google what a strawman is. I actually wonder if you're mixing it up with another informal fallacy, because exaggerating someone's position so it's easier to refute is a pretty obvious example of strawmanning. You might claim semantics, but I'd suggest that there just might be a large qualitative difference between "starving" and being hungry without a place to eat later in the night. If you want to claim that those two things are not qualitatively different, then you are either incredibly stubborn or have very poor judgment.

I really don't know why you would contest the designation. It's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of this thread, so denial seems rather unnecessary. And frankly, concerning the question at hand, if some schools are failing to keep their athletes fed well enough to match their caloric output, then those schools need to manage their meal plans for athletes better. I know some use it as an argument for paying students, but really it's just an issue of individual school mismanagement that needs to be corrected when it occurs.

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[GoMuskies]

Having lived and breathed on college campuses for 7 years, I can safely say there's no one I feel less sympathy for than major college mens basketball and football players.

[xupuck10]

It’s not just the volume. It can be done with planning, but any cash transaction $10k and up, or anything suspicious (even below $10K), get reported on a currency transaction report. Criminals try to avoid going on record like that. Still, I’m sure there are ways....

Wouldn't a CTR only be filled out if the 10k+ in cash were to leave or enter the bank on the same day? If I'm trying to discretely move that money then I have it stashed in my office, not in the bank...and I'm telling who I'm giving it to to deposit it in small amounts (if they even deposit it at all).

Also, pretty sure CTRs are for 10k+, if it's under that threshold but is suspicious the bank can fill out a suspicious activity report.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Thanks Nigel. That was 2 years ago, and for some reason I was thinking the payment was last year.

No problem. I’ve been reading a lot about this stuff. Not all that worried about Sumner’s situation, unless there is some bomb shell that proves X knew. Worst case scenario in my opinion is that Ed knew and some wins will be vacated. If Ed didn’t know, then nothing happens except UC fans on message boards proclaim how dirty X is and it’s a national conspiracy against UC.

This Miller stuff is really interesting though. He hasn’t been suspended or put on leave of absence by the university.

[atljar]

Wouldn't a CTR only be filled out if the 10k+ in cash were to leave or enter the bank on the same day? If I'm trying to discretely move that money then I have it stashed in my office, not in the bank...and I'm telling who I'm giving it to to deposit it in small amounts (if they even deposit it at all).

Also, pretty sure CTRs are for 10k+, if it's under that threshold but is suspicious the bank can fill out a suspicious activity report.

Correct, but doing that is called structuring, and it's illegal and with 100k, the bank will pick up on it

If someone gives you 100k in hot illegal cash, you keep it cash and it never sees the bank

[xudash]

Correct, but doing that is called structuring, and it's illegal and with 100k, the bank will pick up on it

If someone gives you 100k in hot illegal cash, you keep it cash and it never sees the bank

Yes, the "mattress strategy".

I doubt our ATHLETES go hungry. Pretty certain of that.

I'm just not worried about this for Xavier, and will enjoy the popped hopes of VD and UC fans when we come through it.

[ervinsm84]

It’s not just the volume. It can be done with planning, but any cash transaction $10k and up, or anything suspicious (even below $10K), get reported on a currency transaction report. Criminals try to avoid going on record like that. Still, I’m sure there are ways....


Wouldn't a CTR only be filled out if the 10k+ in cash were to leave or enter the bank on the same day? If I'm trying to discretely move that money then I have it stashed in my office, not in the bank...and I'm telling who I'm giving it to to deposit it in small amounts (if they even deposit it at all).

Also, pretty sure CTRs are for 10k+, if it's under that threshold but is suspicious the bank can fill out a suspicious activity report.


Correct, but doing that is called structuring, and it's illegal and with 100k, the bank will pick up on it

If someone gives you 100k in hot illegal cash, you keep it cash and it never sees the bank
I have to comment on this because I work in AML so I'm pretty familiar with the process. My day to day job is actually doing the investigations and writing SARs, exiting relationships, and working closely with law enforcement if the situation warrants it.

CTRs are filed on same business day aggregate transactions, assuming it's all money in or cash out. For example, deposit 5k at branch #1, 6k later at branch#2 on the same day and a CTR will be filed. But if it was 6k deposited and 6k withdrawn on the same day then a CTR is not filed.

CTR's are not suspicious activity reports. CTRs aren't even all that big of a red flag because it is obviously being reported and doesn't look like you are trying to hide stuff, as long as it's done in one transaction. Plus there are countless CTRs filed every day, so it's fairly likely to be lost in the shuffle unless someone has a reason to go looking for it.

SARs are Suspicious Activity Reports. Banks file these if an investigator determines the activity to be suspicious. It's vague and broad for a reason and I can't really disclose how"Suspicious" is defined because I can't be giving a playbook on how to not look sketchy, but you can probably deduce a lot of what most banks would classify as suspicious. These aren't just filed because someone at a branch thought something was off. That can be a tip to start an investigation, but only actual investigators file SARs.

Often times, it's a transactional rule violation/trigger that starts an investigation. If we determine it to be sketchy, we SAR it.

As to the guy saying keep your $100k dirty cash out of the bank, I would pretty much agree. In all likelihood we'll catch it. Report it. And depending on the circumstances may tip off law enforcement, whether it be criminal IRS, FBI, or whatever other relevant agency.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Listening to ESPN basketball commentators today during games has been insufferable. At this point, I hope Miller can somehow shove it up all of ESPN’s asses.

[Backyard Champ]

Agreed Nigel.

Likely won't happen, though I hope it does. They also reported that he'd been fired. At least they corrected themselves a few minutes later.

[XUFan09]

No problem. I’ve been reading a lot about this stuff. Not all that worried about Sumner’s situation, unless there is some bomb shell that proves X knew. Worst case scenario in my opinion is that Ed knew and some wins will be vacated. If Ed didn’t know, then nothing happens except UC fans on message boards proclaim how dirty X is and it’s a national conspiracy against UC.

This Miller stuff is really interesting though. He hasn’t been suspended or put on leave of absence by the university.Yeah, I'm actually much more worried that Miller and Richardson did something while at Xavier than I am concerned about Sumner's situation. If something did happen, I have no idea how the NCAA would handle decade-old violations.

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[stammina0721]

Yeah, I'm actually much more worried that Miller and Richardson did something while at Xavier than I am concerned about Sumner's situation. If something did happen, I have no idea how the NCAA would handle decade-old violations.

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I really don't think it is a concern. I think others were right. The only reason Miller did this was the added pressure of winning at zona. I think he was clean before that.

[XUFan09]

I really don't think it is a concern. I think others were right. The only reason Miller did this was the added pressure of winning at zona. I think he was clean before that.I think that is definitely the most likely thing. I just find it much more likely that Miller/Richardson engaged in some shadiness of a lesser magnitude at Xavier than Mack knew about a payment given to Sumner's father.

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[Xavier]

I think that is definitely the most likely thing. I just find it much more likely that Miller/Richardson engaged in some shadiness of a lesser magnitude at Xavier than Mack knew about a payment given to Sumner's father.

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Agreed. Ever since Book got arrested I was slightly concerned with him having any association with Xavier. I don’t think Mack knew about Ed. I do think Ed knew. In the end I think all we see is vacated wins. Nothing more moving forward and nothing that will impact this years team. All pure speculation on my part.

[coasterville95]

I really want to hope that Edmund is the extent of our involvement in this.

I want to hope Miller and Book were clean here and that either the AD or booster club president at AriZona stepped into Sean’s office and introduced the idea of “money is no object recruiting.

However we are getting a “guilty by association” rap on social media

Look in the bright side. The Olympics and the flooding have buried this in the local news.

[RoseyMuskie]

My theory is that Sean is an ultra-competitive human being, the pressure of a Final Four wore on him, and he committed to whatever means necessary to clear that hurdle. His contract has a built in moral hazard (85% pay received even if fired for cause), so worst case scenario, he’s sitting on a beach, collecting a fat pay check. And he knew that.

[GoMuskies]

Whoever negotiated that Sean Miller contract should immediately be terminated for cause themself. Whether Miller is guilty or not, that for cause termination provision is unconscionable.

[GIMMFD]

My theory is that Sean is an ultra-competitive human being, the pressure of a Final Four wore on him, and he committed to whatever means necessary to clear that hurdle. His contract has a built in moral hazard (85% pay received even if fired for cause), so worst case scenario, he’s sitting on a beach, collecting a fat pay check. And he knew that.

I really need to know who the hell Sean Miller's lawyer was in order to get that type of contract, I'm surprised the Arizona board let that slide. He's going to make $10.5 million if he's fired, 10.5 MILLION.

[Muskie]

I really need to know who the hell Sean Miller's lawyer was in order to get that type of contract, I'm surprised the Arizona board let that slide. He's going to make $10.5 million if he's fired, 10.5 MILLION.

They must have wanted him very badly.


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[stammina0721]

They must have wanted him very badly.


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Well maybe that is a good sign for X if Louisville comes calling. They may have to offer Mack top 5 coach money and guarantee that even if he hired strippers and gets caught that his entire salary will still be paid

[xavierj]

I think the report on Miller is going to blow up in ESpN’s Face. I find it inteesting that the wiretap report said June 2017 discussing payment to secure Ayton. He signed with Arizona 8 months earlier.

[xudash]

I think the report on Miller is going to blow up in ESpN’s Face. I find it inteesting that the wiretap report said June 2017 discussing payment to secure Ayton. He signed with Arizona 8 months earlier.

I so would enjoy ESPN getting fried in this deal.

[bleedXblue]

uhh......The FBI doesn't release information that isn't factual. They have Miller on tape discussing the 100K payment. I have no idea how Miller is going to be vindicated.......I saw no mention anywhere that the allegations included proof of payment to Ayton.

[markchal]

I think the report on Miller is going to blow up in ESpN’s Face. I find it inteesting that the wiretap report said June 2017 discussing payment to secure Ayton. He signed with Arizona 8 months earlier.

I cannot see how any rational person would come to this conclusion. The only way I see Sean coaching again is if they decide to start paying players 5-10 years down the road and then his transgression isn't considered as serious by a program.

[coasterville95]

Which is why Arizona pulled coach but not the player. I thing out yet saying the money actually got to the player. Only that Sean was willing and able to pay.

I keep wondering whose nose got knocked out of shape that this is suddenly a big issue.

[XUBison]

I think the report on Miller is going to blow up in ESpN’s Face. I find it inteesting that the wiretap report said June 2017 discussing payment to secure Ayton. He signed with Arizona 8 months earlier.

It seems this would require one of three things to have happened:

1. ESPN got bad info.
2. ESPN deliberately faked or embellished the info.
3. Or as some have suggested, Sean was a plant for the FBI.

If ESPN is wrong on this, the first option seems to be the most likely scenario, though it’s hard to believe they wouldn’t have vetted the heck out of the information given the potential damage it would cause to so many. Whether they would be liable or not, who knows? You‘d think the last thing ESPN would want right now is to have a blow of this magnitude to their credibility. That said, it’s become awfully hard to tell what the hell is going on over there. Crazy to think Sean would have been an FBI plant.

[xu82]

Whoever negotiated that Sean Miller contract should immediately be terminated for cause themself. Whether Miller is guilty or not, that for cause termination provision is unconscionable.

On the flip side, his agent/attorney deserves a medal!

I doubt anyone said out loud “in order to get the results you want, there’s a certain little game we need to play.”

I agree that they must have wanted him VERY badly, and made a stupid concession thinking it would never come to pass. Oops.

[XUBison]

It seems this would require one of three things to have happened:

1. ESPN got bad info.
2. ESPN deliberately faked or embellished the info.
3. Or as some have suggested, Sean was a plant for the FBI.

If ESPN is wrong on this, the first option seems to be the most likely scenario, though it’s hard to believe they wouldn’t have vetted the heck out of the information given the potential damage it would cause to so many. Whether they would be liable or not, who knows? You‘d think the last thing ESPN would want right now is to have a blow of this magnitude to their credibility. That said, it’s become awfully hard to tell what the hell is going on over there. Crazy to think Sean would have been an FBI plant.

I should clarify... I don’t believe any of these three scenarios make sense. Sean is toast.

[XUBison]

On the flip side, his agent/attorney deserves a medal!

I doubt anyone said out loud “in order to get the results you want, there’s a certain little game we need to play.”

I agree that they must have wanted him VERY badly, and made a stupid concession thinking it would never come to pass. Oops.

The UA administration is either complicit, or they are utterly incompetent.

[paulxu]

Here's something that is confusing to me.
A little while ago, there were indictments handed down against a few assistant coaches, including Book.
If the FBI had Sean Miller on tape arranging some payment...why wasn't he indicted also?

[xavierj]

Here's something that is confusing to me.
A little while ago, there were indictments handed down against a few assistant coaches, including Book.
If the FBI had Sean Miller on tape arranging some payment...why wasn't he indicted also?

I just don’t understand why Sean would be talking payment if the guy had already signed. Some are saying the payment was the other way around and the agent wanted to pay Ayton to secure him for the 2018 draft and Sean said no one is handling this other than me and he would handle the payment to Ayton from the agent.

[xu82]

The UA administration is either complicit, or they are utterly incompetent.

Both is also an option. But yes indeed.

[xu82]

I just don’t understand why Sean would be talking payment if the guy had already signed. Some are saying the payment was the other way around and the agent wanted to pay Ayton to secure him for the 2018 draft and Sean said no one is handling this other than me and he would handle the payment to Ayton from the agent.

This is tough without knowing exactly what was said. Were they negotiating, or talking about something that had taken place? Is there a transcript anywhere (besides within the FBI)?

[XUBison]

Both is also an option. But yes indeed.

Very true.

[XU 87]

Whoever negotiated that Sean Miller contract should immediately be terminated for cause themself. Whether Miller is guilty or not, that for cause termination provision is unconscionable.

I have to think that provision was a mistake and wasn't caught by Arizona, which is inexcusable. But I just can't believe someone knowingly agreed, "Let's pay more if he gets fired 'for cause' than if he's fired 'without cause'".

[Nigel Tufnel]

uhh......The FBI doesn't release information that isn't factual. They have Miller on tape discussing the 100K payment. I have no idea how Miller is going to be vindicated.......I saw no mention anywhere that the allegations included proof of payment to Ayton.

The FBI didn't release the information. It was unnamed sources "familiar with the investigation." ESPN neither heard the recorded calls or read transcripts of the calls.

[bleedXblue]

The FBI didn't release the information. It was unnamed sources "familiar with the investigation." ESPN neither heard the recorded calls or read transcripts of the calls.

oh....got it.

[XUBison]

On the flip side, his agent/attorney deserves a medal!

I doubt anyone said out loud “in order to get the results you want, there’s a certain little game we need to play.”

I agree that they must have wanted him VERY badly, and made a stupid concession thinking it would never come to pass. Oops.

Think about what you’re saying though... No matter how badly they wanted him, UA’s only position should have been that this sort of clause is a non-starter, end of story.

”Sean, you are an employee of the State of Arizona. We can’t possibly include a clause like this for an employee of a public, tax-funded university. It will never pass the smell test with state oversight.” Clearly, oversight was lacking here, and you have to think Arizona politicians are going to start demanding answers.

If the premise was that they believed Sean was so squeaky clean, then there was zero reason to include the clause in his contract anyway, and that should have been the beginning and end of their negotiation position in this regard. There’s no way this just slipped past them.

[xu82]

Think about what you’re saying though... No matter how badly they wanted him, UA’s only position should have been that this sort of clause is a non-starter, end of story.

”Sean, you are an employee of the State of Arizona. We can’t possibly include a clause like this for an employee of a public, tax-funded university. It will never pass the smell test with state oversight.” Clearly, oversight was lacking here, and you have to think Arizona politicians are going to start demanding answers.

If the premise was that they believed Sean was so squeaky clean, then there was zero reason to include the clause in his contract anyway, and that should have been the beginning and end of their negotiation position in this regard. There’s no way this just slipped past them.

Has the AD put his house up for sale yet? You might be able to get a bargain!

They were fully aware of all the terms in that contract.

They turned a blind eye and were counting on him NOT getting caught. Probably just tried not to ask questions or think about it. Hey, when’s the last time something like this happened. I mean, scandals occur, but this was unforeseen.

[bjf123]

The FBI didn't release the information. It was unnamed sources "familiar with the investigation." ESPN neither heard the recorded calls or read transcripts of the calls.

“Familiar with the investigation” does leave the information reported open to some “interpretation” by the person passing it along. Did he or she actually hear the wiretap recording, or just someone’s recollection of the wiretap.?


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[Billy]

uhh......The FBI doesn't release information that isn't factual. They have Miller on tape discussing the 100K payment. I have no idea how Miller is going to be vindicated.......I saw no mention anywhere that the allegations included proof of payment to Ayton.

This.

[waggy]

The FBI didn't release the information. It was leaked by the agent runner's lawyer. The timing of the wiretap is well after Ayton signed his NLI. There are some that think that the FBI asked Miller to wear a wire...

That would be awesome if true.

[waggy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL5mahJUQAADGfA.jpg

[Billy]

The FBI didn't release the information. It was leaked by the agent runner's lawyer. The timing of the wiretap is well after Ayton signed his NLI. There are some that think that the FBI asked Miller to wear a wire...

That would be awesome if true.

You're stating all of that as if it's fact. Who is suggesting that references to payment on the tapped calls were after Ayton signed his LOI? That's not mentioned anywhere in Schlabach's report from Friday night.

Further, the wire was put on Dawkins phone per the report. Anyone thinking that Miller was asked to do this (which would "tip" Book Richardson's boss) when they obviously already had a warrant to do it through Dawkins' phone is just bonkers.

[waggy]

You're stating all of that as if it's fact. Who is suggesting that references to payment on the tapped calls were after Ayton signed his LOI? That's not mentioned anywhere in Schlabach's report from Friday night.

The NLI was signed the end of 2016. The wiretap was supposedly (commonly accepted on the Arizona messageboards) spring 2017. But your right, Schlabach's "report" is void of anything. It amounts to completely unsubstantiated bullshit from the "worldwide leader".


Further, the wire was put on Dawkins phone per the report.

The espn report was so poor I bet this can't be proved. Got a link?

[gladdenguy]

This from Josh Gershon on the Arizona board

Talking to a lot of people around this situation over the last day and a half, here are my thoughts on the report:

- At a minimum, there are some major errors in ESPN's report. Ayton was signed in November of 2016 and this wiretap was in June of 2017. Whatever conversation was caught on wiretap, it had nothing to do with Arizona paying Ayton to sign with Arizona.

- Dawkins had nothing to do with Ayton signing with Arizona in 2016 and neither did Book.

- No one knows for sure what the conversation(s) between Miller and Dawkins were about but it's commonly believed that Dawkins was trying to pay Ayton to sign with their agency.

- I'm guessing whoever listened to the wiretap misinterpreted it and the report was rushed before being completely vetted because the timeline 100% doesn't add up.

- If Dawkins was proposing Miller to try and sign Ayton, there is nothing wrong with Miller having that conversation as long as money never changed hands and it's not believed that it ever did. Dawkins, as you see now, had his hand in a ton of recruitments and you can't tell a guy like that to shove off to his face.

- Miller making sure the conversation never went to Book and stayed with him is an important detail in Miller's defense. If Dawkins goes to Book with 100k, who knows what happens from there.

- Those who know him believe Miller will sue ESPN when the time is right given the damage the report has done to his reputation and potentially his ability to coach again.

- Arizona is in a tough spot. The fact Miller wasn't fired shows the University had no reason to believe the report was true based on what it currently knows about the situation. But is Miller's reputation irreparable? How does Arizona move forward as a program with Miller if the report isn't refuted, even if he didn't do what was alleged?

- The story isn't easily refuted because it means gaining access to a tape that has an order of protection on it. ESPN allegedly didn't hear it; the report was based on one of the two sides of the investigation who relayed their interpretation of it.

- I know other reporters have tried to gain access to the tape to confirm or refute the story and haven't been able to.

- What happens from here with Miller/Arizona I have no idea because of the overwhelming pressure from the local and national media. That report essentially blew up any chance of UA being competitive again in the near future. Arizona is about to have zero commitments in 2018. Basically the administration is in a lose/lose situation. The only way to possibly salvage the near future is the possibility of the report being refuted. Outside of that, whatever the administration does to try and find the most sensible path forward, I wouldn't be

[Billy]

The NLI was signed the end of 2016. The wiretap was supposedly (commonly accepted on the Arizona messageboards) spring 2017. But your right, Schlabach's "report" is void of anything. It amounts to completely unsubstantiated bullshit from the "worldwide leader".



The espn report was so poor I bet this can't be proved. Got a link?

If you'd prefer to believe the side with an assistant coach already under Federal indictment, and a head coach who sat out on Saturday night...I say go for it.

[markchal]

If you'd prefer to believe the side with an assistant coach already under Federal indictment, and a head coach who sat out on Saturday night...I say go for it.

Agree on this. I guess some people want to stay naive until the end.

[xubrew]

https://twitter.com/Matt_Fox10/status/967998669726171137

[xubrew]

Just a couple of things...

In my experience "going hungry" is basically a figure of speech. In the last ten years or so training rooms have begun to focus more and more on nutrition and a lot of the power programs have even hired nutritionists. I don't know if it means anything specific, but "going hungry" typically means being on a diet that limits or outright forbids consuming any food after 4pm. And, yeah, I would imagine guys would get hungry when on that particular diet for however many weeks they're expected to be on it. When Shabazz Napier talked about how hard the "hungry nights" were after winning the national title, I think virtually everyone completely misunderstood exactly what he meant.

I don't think we've seen the end of this. I have a feeling that networks have a lot more than what they've released, and have chosen (for whatever reason) to dump it a piece at a time rather than all at once. Call it a hunch. That's really all it is, but that's still how I feel. I feel sorry for almost no one. If someone gets nailed, then it means they did it, and I can live with whatever happens to them. I do think there needs to be a complete cultural change, and maybe (although not assuredly) this will be what finally leads to it.

[xudash]

So, for Xavier, a recap please, based upon comments Paul has already made.

If I understand it correctly, IN THE EVENT EDMOND SUMNER'S FATHER TOOK MONEY FROM AN AGENT, BUT WITHOUT ANY DIRECT CONTACT INVOLVING XAVIER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, then Xavier could face the possibility of having wins vacated during the time that Sumner played for Xavier.

Questions:

1. All wins - games - once he stepped foot on campus?

2. All wins - games - from the time they substantiate the date of the crooked payment?

3. Do games count where he otherwise sat injured on the bench and could not play?

I agree with Paul completely about how ludicrous this is, insofar as it is ridiculous to hold a university accountable for the back alley shenanigans of a couple of assholes who are trying to profit from a young man's potential career.

If we do have to vacate, at least we're not vacating a S16 year. Edmond went out during the 2-Seed Wisconsin year fiasco, I do believe.

BTW, how do you run an article of that magnitude and not have the timeline locked down completely? ESPN, " Oops, we meant 2016, not 2017!"

Mark my words: a movie will be coming out of all this in the not too distant future.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So, for Xavier, a recap please, based upon comments Paul has already made.

If I understand it correctly, IN THE EVENT EDMOND SUMNER'S FATHER TOOK MONEY FROM AN AGENT, BUT WITHOUT ANY DIRECT CONTACT INVOLVING XAVIER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM, then Xavier could face the possibility of having wins vacated during the time that Sumner played for Xavier.

Questions:

1. All wins - games - once he stepped foot on campus?

2. All wins - games - from the time they substantiate the date of the crooked payment?

3. Do games count where he otherwise sat injured on the bench and could not play?

I agree with Paul completely about how ludicrous this is, insofar as it is ridiculous to hold a university accountable for the back alley shenanigans of a couple of assholes who are trying to profit from a young man's potential career.

If we do have to vacate, at least we're not vacating a S16 year. Edmond went out during the 2-Seed Wisconsin year fiasco, I do believe.

BTW, how do you run an article of that magnitude and not have the timeline locked down completely? ESPN, " Oops, we meant 2016, not 2017!"

Mark my words: a movie will be coming out of all this in the not too distant future.

I dont know all the answers to your questions but our Elite 8 year would be very much in question for vacating wins because Ed played half that year before going out with injury.

[GoMuskies]

I agree with Paul completely about how ludicrous this is, insofar as it is ridiculous to hold a university accountable for the back alley shenanigans of a couple of assholes who are trying to profit from a young man's potential career.


I think it sort of depends as to whether this is ridiculous. Did we have an adequate compliance program to try to detect and prevent such shenanigans? Did we turn a blind eye to red flags of bad behavior?

I think you need to know the answer to at least those two questions to start to think meaningfully about Xavier's culpability or lack thereof.

[Billy]

This from Josh Gershon on the Arizona board

Thanks for sharing that. I think it's completely fair to say that what ESPN reported doesn't get anyone to much of a definite conclusion. There's a pretty wide range of places this could be headed. I just find it hard to believe it will end up with Sean Miller emerging anything close to clean. Book Richardson is probably going to prison because of his activity.

One thing I'd mention when thinking about ESPN's role in this...they are known for protecting their partners. Ask Bill Simmons about that. I would imagine that the two largest "investors" in NCAA Basketball are CBS and ESPN (maybe the shoe companies are in the vicinity). ESPN doesn't have a long track record of being inaccurate from a journalistic standpoint, as far as I know. (I'm not sure what the Auburn football story mentioned earlier in this thread was about) So when placing doubt or motive behind their actual reporting, that's something worth considering. I believe ESPN is competing with Yahoo on this story because as Brew pointed out, there's a ton of bad stuff out there, the die is cast, and it's all coming out either way.

[SemajParlor]

For what it's worth getting Ayton for 100k is the deal of the decade. Pay these kids more who cares.

[waggy]

If you'd prefer to believe the side with an assistant coach already under Federal indictment, and a head coach who sat out on Saturday night...I say go for it.

I don't know what to make of Sean saying he'll be vindicated. He didn't say he's innocent. But then again he hasn't been charged with a crime either. So the wording may be nothing. But I've always thought him to be an honest guy.

I hope he is vindicated. I've already seen the comments relating to X and Mack by association.

ESPN is not our friend. They suck, and given the opportunity would take down X and/or the BE in a heartbeat. If nothing else, hoping FOX can get in on the action with a bunch of ACC dirt.

[SemajParlor]

Also the irony of Xavier vacating wins in a year they beat Arizona to get the Elite 8 would be something else. I'd imagine Lauri Markannen wasn't drawn from Finland to Arizona for his love of warm weather.

[xavierj]

Agree on this. I guess some people want to stay naive until the end.

Or maybe some people don’t believe stories with holes from media people who want ratings. I for one believe about 10% of what the media reports these days. I mean is it crazy to question a report that had errors when the guy reporting it is reporting on something he didn’t see or hear? Not saying it’s not true, but is it wrong to be skeptical?

[xudash]

I think it sort of depends as to whether this is ridiculous. Did we have an adequate compliance program to try to detect and prevent such shenanigans? Did we turn a blind eye to red flags of bad behavior?

I think you need to know the answer to at least those two questions to start to think meaningfully about Xavier's culpability or lack thereof.

Those are fair questions at face value.

Frankly and bluntly, I happen to know the key players well enough - I'll leave it at that. Call me biased, but there is no way on God's green earth that the Xavier leadership would allow itself to be lax with respect to compliance. That isn't even an adequate response. The program is very well managed in all facets. IN THAT SPECIFIC CULTURE, no one - not any one of them - would consider turning a blind eye to red flags or bad behavior.

What has been built at that private, Catholic university is rather extraordinary. Yet there is no arrogance there. There is no sense of entitlement there. There is no "we're Chapel Hill, let's do this or that and we'll manage our way through the wrist-slap bullsh!t" there.

They're still in building mode. The ASSET - men's basketball - has become extremely valuable and certainly worthwhile to that particular institution. It's all relative, but they're doing with basketball in these recent decades what Notre Dame did with football beginning probably with Rockne.

Do the math. Xavier has raised over a half billion dollars since Father Hoff stepped onto campus. You're about to see the endowment go up substantially, but it would have already gone up more had there not been so many capital project opportunities to pursue to create what now has become that campus.

If God in heaven allowed Mulligan to pop back down for a day or two to look around, the poor Father would sh!t himself over what Xavier has become. He never understood the value that successful intercollegiate sports could bring to a university. Those that followed him did. When the shovels went into the ground in 1996 to build the Cintas Center, and especially as Bobinski came along, the foundation was put into place to RUN AND MANAGE a successful intercollegiate athletics program. Then we deliver ourselves to the Big East and the resources really explode. Yet it's still heads down up there and with great focus on running the business, if you will.

I'm rambling a little now, but if the question is about adequate compliance on our part, I am damn confident that we're squeaky clean on that one.

[Billy]

Or maybe some people don’t believe stories with holes from media people who want ratings. I for one believe about 10% of what the media reports these days. I mean is it crazy to question a report that had errors when the guy reporting it is reporting on something he didn’t see or hear? Not saying it’s not true, but is it wrong to be skeptical?

If the media covering college basketball is batting .100 in your mind, you should have no problem citing a large number of instances they've screwed up on their reporting. I'll hang up and listen.

[GoMuskies]

Frankly and bluntly, I happen to know the key players well enough - I'll leave it at that.

Certainly hope you're right. I suspect you are right. But most of us DON'T know those key players. Unfortunately, if the Sumner information is accurate, the burden of proof is going to be on Xavier. Especially in the court of public opinion,which is probably going to be the most important court in this particular situation.

[xavierj]

If the media covering college basketball is batting .100 in your mind, you should have no problem citing a large number of instances they've screwed up on their reporting. I'll hang up and listen.

I said media in general. North Carolina? Everyone had them screwed. How did that work out? People have been bringing up KY and Calipari for years, anything change? Auburn football? Alabama football? Lots of news, nothing major comes from it. So yeah ESPN reports Sean Miller was on a wiretap, I will believe it when I hear it and anything comes from it. Again not saying it isn’t true but will be skepitcal until real proof comes out and something comes from it. As of now Sean is still the coach and the main player mentioned is still eligible to play.

[xudash]

Certainly hope you're right. I suspect you are right. But most of us DON'T know those key players. Unfortunately, if the Sumner information is accurate, the burden of proof is going to be on Xavier. Especially in the court of public opinion,which is probably going to be the most important court in this particular situation.

If - I suppose when - it comes time to step through a due diligence process for this crap, I would think that the Feds will be escorted into the athletic offices in the Cintas Center and, at the very least, be walked through the policies and procedures that are in place and followed for compliance related issues. They'll conduct interviews there. Now I'm guessing, but might it also be possible that someone pays Edmond Sumner a visit, puts him under oath, puts him under a heat lamp, and asks him a few questions. All or some combination of that process should lead to our vindication on the matter of compliance and what we knew, or in this case didn't know.

At the very least, I would think that once any due diligence findings are concluded with respect to this specific incident, that some form of press release will take place. In other words, we'll probably put something out if the Feds don't have anything to say.

I see us as being vindicated on the matter of our knowledge - in this case, zero - of what transpired between Sumner's father and the agent. Cynical and jealous people will smirk and believe we got away with something. Others will take the findings as presented.

And we'll move forward as a victim of a bad rule.

On that note, in the process of cleaning up, as best they can, the corruption in the sport, the NCAA is going to have to be pressured to rewrite the vacating rule that applies to schools that did not know or had nothing to do with illicit activity between two parties having no direct ties to a school.

[waggy]

I said media in general. North Carolina? Everyone had them screwed. How did that work out? People have been bringing up KY and Calipari for years, anything change? Auburn football? Alabama football? Lots of news, nothing major comes from it. So yeah ESPN reports Sean Miller was on a wiretap, I will believe it when I hear it and anything comes from it. Again not saying it isn’t true but will be skepitcal until real proof comes out and something comes from it. As of now Sean is still the coach and the main player mentioned is still eligible to play.

And ESPN has no actual proof and can't get it because it's sealed. How are they allowed to do this?

[bjf123]

And ESPN has no actual proof and can't get it because it's sealed. How are they allowed to do this?

Rule #1. It’s all about ratings and revenue.

If questioned, they can use the standard response of “we stand by our story.” If it later turns out to be false, they’ll claim they were only reporting the “facts” as they knew them at the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I dont know all the answers to your questions but our Elite 8 year would be very much in question for vacating wins because Ed played half that year before going out with injury.

You only have to vacate the games in which an ineligible player participated in. Ed didn't play in the tournament run last year so the Elite 8 run would not be in question.

[paulxu]

On that note, in the process of cleaning up, as best they can, the corruption in the sport, the NCAA is going to have to be pressured to rewrite the vacating rule that applies to schools that did not know or had nothing to do with illicit activity between two parties having no direct ties to a school.

Dash, thanks for your comments and insights.
Sumner's dad and agent (runner) had no direct ties. But even if it was Sumner himself, I'm still struck by the same thing.

Your school can do everything humanly possible, have the best student/athlete instructions, compliance officers/programs, etc.....and one student athlete (or his dad) can meet an agent somewhere, take some money, you know nothing...and put an IED underneath your total school/program.

It's crazy for them to have that sort of power.

I am beyond pissed that I'm forced into the position of saying to my friends, "if Mack was bad, throw the book at our school," which is what I advocate for situations like the UNC scandal. I hate to have to say that. I'd much rather be comfortable in knowing our history indicates we run a clean program. I don't like to hear people say we are only now successful in the rankings because we are starting to do the same crap other programs have always done.

Edmond Sumner and/or his dad have damaged us in the court of public opinion that Go notes far in excess of any contribution he made to our program.

[Billy]

I said media in general. North Carolina? Everyone had them screwed. How did that work out? People have been bringing up KY and Calipari for years, anything change? Auburn football? Alabama football? Lots of news, nothing major comes from it. So yeah ESPN reports Sean Miller was on a wiretap, I will believe it when I hear it and anything comes from it. Again not saying it isn’t true but will be skepitcal until real proof comes out and something comes from it. As of now Sean is still the coach and the main player mentioned is still eligible to play.

You're moving the goalpost. We were discussing if sourced information from these outlets was generally accurate. Not focusing on whether or not the reporting always yields an edifying conclusion. That's a totally different matter.

Skepticism is healthy. Skepticism isn't the same as being dismissive.

[XU 87]

You're moving the goalpost. We were discussing if sourced information from these outlets was generally accurate. Not focusing on whether or not the reporting always yields an edifying conclusion. That's a totally different matter.

Skepticism is healthy. Skepticism isn't the same as being dismissive.

Billy is back!

Does this mean we should expect to see DC Muskie, the Truth and several other posters who have disappeared from the board?

[Billy]

On that note, in the process of cleaning up, as best they can, the corruption in the sport, the NCAA is going to have to be pressured to rewrite the vacating rule that applies to schools that did not know or had nothing to do with illicit activity between two parties having no direct ties to a school.

I'm picking up most of what you're putting down...but this is where you and I might depart.

Because these kids are recruited as minors, the NCAA has no choice but to treat family members as part of the "team" in the way it writes it's rules...and all of this crap is exactly why. I came across this informational document from a Google search...it kind of gives you a high-level flavor of how that works. (The word 'family' appears 15 times in this document)

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/mf-f-michigan-tech-booster-club.pdf

I just don't know how the NCAA can separate the coach/admin/player/family. Even if part of that whole is uninformed about the impermissible behavior, or did an excellent job at maintaining plausible deniability, I believe they all need to go down together. Might be a super unpopular opinion, but I think the NCAA generally does the right thing when it comes to vacating records and titles.

[D-West & PO-Z]

You only have to vacate the games in which an ineligible player participated in. Ed didn't play in the tournament run last year so the Elite 8 run would not be in question.

I just meant wins during that year, not the actual tourney wins.

That does lead me to a question though if that is 100% accurate. If we have to forfeit half the seasons wins due to an ineligible player then are we positive our tourney appearance/wins dont get vacated as well even though Ed didnt play? Cant it be argued we shouldnt have got in with those wins vacated? He surely contributed to the season that resulted in the Elite 8 appearance even if not during the run itself.

[SemajParlor]

So is the alternative that ESPN made up a story about Sean Miller being wiretapped by FBI all while his former top assistant coincidentally faces 60 years in prison?

[GoMuskies]

So is the alternative that ESPN made up a story about Sean Miller being wiretapped by FBI all while his former top assistant coincidentally faces 60 years in prison?

They may not have made it up. They may just have received bad information. Hell, the conversation might have been someone asking if they should pay Ayton $100k to go to Arizona and Miller said "No." The reporting I've heard (and I haven't gone that deep...haven't even read this whole thread) is that Miller was on a call discussing a $100k payment to Ayton. It doesn't say he asked for it or even condoned it. If he basically exploded on Dawkins and told him he'd kill him if he made a payment like that, the reporting I've seen on the wiretap would still be accurate.

[webxu]

So if we vacate the last two seasons... do all Tre's points count? Mack would no longer be winningest coach...

[xavierj]

So if we vacate the last two seasons... do all Tre's points count? Mack would no longer be winningest coach...

Xavier is fine in this whole deal. It’s a much bigger story than If Ed’s dad got a loan. Hell all of the other guys mentioned in the article with Ed have pretty much been cleared to continue playing in college now. Doesn’t seem the other universities think the spread sheet article is a big deal and or it can’t be proved.

[SemajParlor]

If he basically exploded on Dawkins and told him he'd kill him if he made a payment like that, the reporting I've seen on the wiretap would still be accurate.

Sure? I agree ESPN wrongly and too early reported it. I just wonder if we'd be having these same thoughts if it wasn't Sean Miller. Based on my understanding of the college basketball landscape this doesn't seem to be too far fetched.

[XU 87]

So is the alternative that ESPN made up a story about Sean Miller being wiretapped by FBI all while his former top assistant coincidentally faces 60 years in prison?

It could be that ESPN is wrong in their reporting. We'll find out, one way or the other.

[xudash]

I'm picking up most of what you're putting down...but this is where you and I might depart.

Because these kids are recruited as minors, the NCAA has no choice but to treat family members as part of the "team" in the way it writes it's rules...and all of this crap is exactly why. I came across this informational document from a Google search...it kind of gives you a high-level flavor of how that works. (The word 'family' appears 15 times in this document)

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/mf-f-michigan-tech-booster-club.pdf

I just don't know how the NCAA can separate the coach/admin/player/family. Even if part of that whole is uninformed about the impermissible behavior, or did an excellent job at maintaining plausible deniability, I believe they all need to go down together. Might be a super unpopular opinion, but I think the NCAA generally does the right thing when it comes to vacating records and titles.

We will simply agree to disagree about them all having to go down together.

IF a school truly has nothing but good intentions with respect to running its program and those intentions are translated into viable, effective practices that are focused on achieving compliance, said school should not have exposure on matters such as these, wherein they specifically were operating above board, but had no possible clue of improprieties occuring between a player's family member and another, totally unrelated third party.

Guilt by association cannot or should not become a defining standard in all this.

Issuing penalties against a party for some action where that party had not otherwise engaged in corrupt activity throughout that action and truly ended up being collaterally damaged as a result of it is nuts.

[GoMuskies]

Sure? I agree ESPN wrongly and too early reported it. I just wonder if we'd be having these same thoughts if it wasn't Sean Miller. Based on my understanding of the college basketball landscape this doesn't seem to be too far fetched.

If I had to guess, I'd guess Miller is guilty as sin. But I sure don't know.

[SemajParlor]

If I had to guess, I'd guess Miller is guilty as sin. But I sure don't know.

Fair enough.

[Lloyd Braun]

Per Jeff Goodman: “Michigan State compliance office did uncover an NCAA violation. Per standard operating procedures, Miles Bridges was declared ineligible and MSU applied for reinstatement. On Saturday afternoon, MSU received word that Bridges had been reinstated by the NCAA. Last winter (2016-17), Bridges’ family members had dinner with an agent, without Bridges’ knowledge. As part of the reinstatement process, Bridges was required to pay $40 (value of dinner) to a charity of his choice.”

Lol

[paulxu]

XCO: Mr. Sumner, this is the Xavier University Compliance Officer. I'd like to talk with you about a meeting you had 2 years ago in Detroit.

MS: You're who?

XCO: Xavier's Compliance Officer

MS: heh-heh (click)

[xukeith]

XCO: Mr. Sumner, this is the Xavier University Compliance Officer. I'd like to talk with you about a meeting you had 2 years ago in Detroit.

MS: You're who?

XCO: Xavier's Compliance Officer

MS: heh-heh (click)

Exactly. NCAA will only dig up bad stuff if they find it on current coaches and/or current players.
If nobody at X knew of Sumner or Christon getting $ from agent, then X is clear. Seton Hall might be in trouble as they have a current player who got paid. Same with 15-20 other schools.

[xavierj]

Exactly. NCAA will only dig up bad stuff if they find it on current coaches and/or current players.
If nobody at X knew of Sumner or Christon getting $ from agent, then X is clear. Seton Hall might be in trouble as they have a current player who got paid. Same with 15-20 other schools.

Why do you keep bringing up Semaj? Where and when did he get money from an agent? Let me know what you have heard. Thanks

[XUFan09]

Why do you keep bringing up Semaj? Where and when did he get money from an agent? Let me know what you have heard. ThanksExactly. Semaj had been pro for years. In those years, he has had multiple agents. His third (THIRD!) agent in that span was Miller.

Keith, if you're going to post, actually read what other people say too, because you have been asked to clarify about the Semaj mention before. It's becoming pretty clear that you just got confused because Semaj was mentioned in connection with Miller in the way I laid out above, not in some relationship that occurred while Semaj was at Xavier. So, unless you have some new information that hasn't been reported anywhere, why don't you just stop being wrong in a way that risks adding unnecessary rumors?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Nigel Tufnel]

I've officially gone down the rabbit hole on this Miller fiasco. What a mess. ESPN better drop a bombshell soon or they are going to look like shit. More and more journalists are calling them out. Schlablaugh hasn't responded on twitter for the last 24 hours. Arizona hasn't canned or suspended Miller. Something monumental better come out soon or ESPN better eat shit or get sued.

[Masterofreality]

Billy is back!

Does this mean we should expect to see DC Muskie, the Truth and several other posters who have disappeared from the board?

I was with the Legendary DC Muskie at the Georgetown game last week. He's verrrrry busy. He has no plans to return soon, dammit, but as Peter Gillen always said "Never Say Never".

[xu82]

I was with the Legendary DC Muskie at the Georgetown game last week. He's verrrrry busy. He has no plans to return soon, dammit, but as Peter Gillen always said "Never Say Never".

Oh, come on! How busy could he be? Is he in charge of Trumps twitter account?

[Masterofreality]

It could be that ESPN is wrong in their reporting. We'll find out, one way or the other.


I've officially gone down the rabbit hole on this Miller fiasco. What a mess. ESPN better drop a bombshell soon or they are going to look like shit. More and more journalists are calling them out. Schlablaugh hasn't responded on twitter for the last 24 hours. Arizona hasn't canned or suspended Miller. Something monumental better come out soon or ESPN better eat shit or get sued.

I agree completely. As everyone knows, I wont't give Sean Miller the time of day, but the longer this goes without any hard evidence, the fish get stinkier.
ESPN's dick is hanging out on a chopping table right now with Schlabaugh's story and he'd better produce some backup soon. Either that, or the "Worldwide Leader" is going down-way down in credibility and financially in huge lawsuits. The initial story was sloppy, they've already had to "correct" the timeframe when the Miller/Dawkins phone call allegedly occurred, from May, 2017 to "2016" (unspecified what month) and there hasn't been any follow up story, very unlike ESPN who usually runs a story they get into the ground. Ayton's family is denying everything- which I would expect, but so far, there is an awful lot of empty air behind Schlabaugh's story while it hangs out there.

I'd say there's a lot of Nervous Nannas in Bristol Connecticut right about now.

[paulxu]

It is however strange that Miller hasn't denied the story (if I got that right).
He just said he'd be vindicated.
Very strange; the whole thing.

[xu82]

It is however strange that Miller hasn't denied the story (if I got that right).
He just said he'd be vindicated.
Very strange; the whole thing.

Agreed, strange in so many ways.

[stammina0721]

It is however strange that Miller hasn't denied the story (if I got that right).
He just said he'd be vindicated.
Very strange; the whole thing.

Anyone who watches Judge Judy can tell you why we have not heard from Miller. Dont say a word... If he is innocent he may own ESPN

[xudash]

And this:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/26/17056118/sean-miller-fbi-wiretap-call-ayton-timeline-doesnt-add-up-247sports-payment-fired-suspension-return/

[xu82]

Anyone who watches Judge Judy can tell you why we have not heard from Miller. Dont say a word... If he is innocent he may own ESPN

I pray he would make serious improvements!

[xavierj]

And this:

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/2/26/17056118/sean-miller-fbi-wiretap-call-ayton-timeline-doesnt-add-up-247sports-payment-fired-suspension-return/

The only thing you can take away I guess is that he still is not coaching the team, so there has to be something, right?

[coasterville95]

The only thing you can take away I guess is that he still is not coaching the team, so there has to be something, right?

The could just be “put on administrative leave while we sort this whole thing out”.

[American X]

ESPN's dick is hanging out on a chopping table right now

That already happened:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0EuTLP-090

[paulxu]

There are the allegations of stuff that are for past players (like Sumner), and then allegations about current players/coaches like Miller.

The story about the player Bridges at Michigan State raises an interesting possibility: The runner Dawkins supposedly gave his mom $400, bought the family dinner, and met Bridges at a Nike Camp in LA. This all based on expense reports Dawkins turned into the agency. After a quick investigation, Bridges is cleared by school and NCAA after giving $40 to charity. (supposedly no $400 given, and Bridges never met him; maybe dinner involved that Bridges didn't know about)

The possibility I see is that Dawkins was just scamming the agency and claiming loans made to families/players just to get $ from the agency on his expense reports. If that is ever proven to be the case just once...the whole deal might crash/burn like a house of cards. If you read that crazy Swampy guy's post about his dealings with Dawkins, the guy is just a kid wanting to be big time.

Wiretaps are another story.

[xudash]

That already happened:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0EuTLP-090

You are on a roll!

[kellernr]

There are the allegations of stuff that are for past players (like Sumner), and then allegations about current players/coaches like Miller.

The story about the player Bridges at Michigan State raises an interesting possibility: The runner Dawkins supposedly gave his mom $400, bought the family dinner, and met Bridges at a Nike Camp in LA. This all based on expense reports Dawkins turned into the agency. After a quick investigation, Bridges is cleared by school and NCAA after giving $40 to charity. (supposedly no $400 given, and Bridges never met him; maybe dinner involved that Bridges didn't know about)

The possibility I see is that Dawkins was just scamming the agency and claiming loans made to families/players just to get $ from the agency on his expense reports. If that is ever proven to be the case just once...the whole deal might crash/burn like a house of cards. If you read that crazy Swampy guy's post about his dealings with Dawkins, the guy is just a kid wanting to be big time.

Wiretaps are another story.So by their logic with miles, Sumner could donate money to a charity and have wiped clean? Or does that only work for the big time schools?

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[Backyard Champ]

So by their logic with miles, Sumner could donate money to a charity and have wiped clean? Or does that only work for the big time schools?

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I'm pretty sure that's the case with anyone, as long as it's under a certain amount. I think it's 500.00, but could be wrong.

Well, maybe anyone that currently has eligibility. No reason to try and remain eligible...after you've already left school.

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm pretty sure that's the case with anyone, as long as it's under a certain amount. I think it's 500.00, but could be wrong.

Well, maybe anyone that currently has eligibility. No reason to try and remain eligible...after you've already left school.

I think its only $100. Over that the player has to start missing games.

Someone posted a link I thought, or maybe I saw it on twitter, of the exact rules. If Bridges mom had accepted the $400 that was rumored he would have had to miss 30% of the teams games. When this came out they were saying he could have come bac for the National Championship game is MSU made it to that if they had also made it to Big 10 championship game.

[Backyard Champ]

Ah. Interesting though that it appears it was only $40.00 and not $400.00. Who knows how much it really was, but that's a pretty big difference. Have to wonder how accurate the spreadsheet is.

[paulxu]

I'm guessing they disputed the $400, and the $40 he paid was the value of the meal received by the family from the agent's guy.

[muskiefan82]

Sumner missed a bunch of games last year. I say "Time Served!" and let's move on.

You say, "He only missed those games because of injury"

And I say, "How many teams have placed a self-imposed tournament ban on their team when it was clear they weren't good enough to make the tournament anyway?"

[D-West & PO-Z]

I'm guessing they disputed the $400, and the $40 he paid was the value of the meal received by the family from the agent's guy.

Yes they disputed the $400 but agreed they got $40 for a meal.

[outsideobserver11]

Yes they disputed the $400 but agreed they got $40 for a meal.

Was that for the family? Classy agent taking them to Applebee's.

[Olsingledigit]

Here is a summary of the Miller situation from a friend and former partner of mine who is a huge Zona fan (and grad) FWIW: The whole rebuttal with Miller hinges on his statement that he will be vindicated. In many minds of the fans on paid bulletin boards, the question is whether Miller is saying that he will be vindicated because the conversation where he allegedly discussed $100,000 did not happen on the phone or if there never was a conversation or if there was a conversation but the offer of $100,000 was never acted upon.

What is clear to me is that the ESPN article by Schlarbach was single sourced and not checked. It likely was not with an FBI representative and it almost feels like in the Watergate film, All the President's Men, where the source was talking in an obtuse fashion and miscommunicated what occurred by hanging up when he should not have. Be that as it may, ESPN then doubled down and allowed its hosts to talk smack about Miller and act like it was a proven fact that he was dirty. It went so far as Jay Bilas calling Miller not only a crook, but a stupid crook. Now ESPN pulled the article (after changing a year reference that made the story even less believable.)

My general view is that College Basketball is inherently dirty and recruiting players is an ugly game with money changing hands a lot. I don't think Miller is that stupid. I think that his assistant coaches Pasternack and Richardson were intermediaries and will get nailed. I think they will remain loyal to Miller, but that is up in the air. What I really think happened is that this 24 year old runner, Dawkins was talking big to Richardson about moving $100,000 to pay Quinnerly in exchange for Arizona's coaches convincing Ayton to go to Dawkin's boss's agency, ASM. I think Miller spoke to Dawkins and said, don't you talk to my assistant coaches about money, I am the head coach. I think he was trying to get Dawkins focused on Miller to let Miller be the focal point and the one who ultimately put the kibosh on any deal with Dawkins. Remember, Dawkins is a 24 year old pissant. I think all the stuff in emails to Dawkins' boss was fluff, trying to impress him.

Regardless, I still think that Miller (as well as Calipari, Coach K, Pittino, Izzo and so many big name and even medium name coaches) have "gentlemen's agreements' to "work together for mutual benefit.' Kind of like a tax CPA who refers work to a financial planner to get work back. Frequently money does not change hands (but I know sometimes is does). Certainly perks are given.

So in the end, I think that Miller might have to go and perhaps with him the whole current system. I think the NCAA amateurism approach is not working and I think that some day (not sure when), while we will continue to provide scholarships and cost of attendance to all players (in most if not all sports), schools will be able to woo those players that they want with actual money. Not all players should be paid, but the free market will take hold. This might change if the NBA backs off of its one and done rule. If they do, I think it will still happen, but will be a slower need for implementation.

[kellernr]

Yes they disputed the $400 but agreed they got $40 for a meal.So they said he bought them a meal but they also said they never met the guy. Makes no sense

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[Nigel Tufnel]

https://247sports.com/Article/Sources-Sean-Miller-met-Monday-with-Arizona-administrators-could-learn-fate-soon-115621971

https://twitter.com/bsnow247?lang=en

Wow!! ESPN's butt has to be puckered right now. Find it also interesting that since their tirade Saturday, Bilas and Vitale have been very quiet.

Like this little nugget from the 247 article...."247Sports sources with knowledge of the content of the audio tapes – which remain under a federal seal – believe they would exonerate the coach of ESPN’s allegations."

[letskeepitreal]

https://247sports.com/Article/Sources-Sean-Miller-met-Monday-with-Arizona-administrators-could-learn-fate-soon-115621971

https://twitter.com/bsnow247?lang=en

Wow!! ESPN's butt has to be puckered right now. Find it also interesting that since their tirade Saturday, Bilas and Vitale have been very quiet.

Like this little nugget from the 247 article...."247Sports sources with knowledge of the content of the audio tapes – which remain under a federal seal – believe they would exonerate the coach of ESPN’s allegations."

Wow, if this story is not true or cannot be substantiated, I would imagine that Sean would have a pretty good cause of action against whoever broke the story. I thought it was just ESPN but I am also hearing references of Yahoo Sports. The silence of Jay Bilas and others at ESPN about this is pretty damning. I guess ESPN doesn't vet stories like the New York Times and other large papers. Miller may lose his reputation and his job but could potentially win big in a slander lawsuit. Either way, this may change the game of college basketball. Lets get rid of the one and done rules. Goes to show you how some brash talking punk can cause a lot of sh*t!

[xu95]

Yahoo Sports had absolutely nothing to do with this story. ESPN has been getting their butts handed to them lately by the articles that Yahoo has posted and I think they tried to get in front of one for once and didn't properly vet it. Someone needs to lose their job if the story isn't true and I hope Sean sues ESPN.

xu95

[markchal]

There's gotta be something to this. I agree that ESPN is annoying and can be biased with some of the leagues they cover, but with a major major bombshell like this, there's no way it didn't get vetted at some pretty high levels. If it turns out to be false, I imagine several people will lose their jobs.

[94GRAD]

Yahoo Sports had absolutely nothing to do with this story. ESPN has been getting their butts handed to them lately by the articles that Yahoo has posted and I think they tried to get in front of one for once and didn't properly vet it. Someone needs to lose their job if the story isn't true and I hope Sean sues ESPN.

xu95

Don't forget that ESPN fired almost all of their college basketball writers last year!

[xudash]

Wow, if this story is not true or cannot be substantiated, I would imagine that Sean would have a pretty good cause of action against whoever broke the story. I thought it was just ESPN but I am also hearing references of Yahoo Sports. The silence of Jay Bilas and others at ESPN about this is pretty damning. I guess ESPN doesn't vet stories like the New York Times and other large papers. Miller may lose his reputation and his job but could potentially win big in a slander lawsuit. Either way, this may change the game of college basketball. Lets get rid of the one and done rules. Goes to show you how some brash talking punk can cause a lot of sh*t!

Imagine the possibilities in quantifying the damages to both UA and Sean.

Opportunity cost of lost NCAAT revenue, resulting from lost recruits, beginning with Shaq's son.

Differential between alumni giving pre-report versus post report.

General damages for slander (?).

Everything that Sean can throw at them personally.

All that times mental anguish!

Not since Dan Rather got carried away has a "news organization" soiled itself so badly, maybe. I love it.

[xu82]

I’ve gone from being a big ESPN fan way back when, to enjoying them sweating bullets and taking flak today.

I get that there are more sports venues today, but how did they mess this up so badly? I’m not indifferent. I want to see them feel some pain. (Very un-Christian of me, I know.) Having pompous asses like Jay Bilas and Dick Vitale as their front men did them no favors, in my opinion.

[xu82]

There's gotta be something to this. I agree that ESPN is annoying and can be biased with some of the leagues they cover, but with a major major bombshell like this, there's no way it didn't get vetted at some pretty high levels. If it turns out to be false, I imagine several people will lose their jobs.

You’d think it would be vetted like Watergate, but they got the year wrong? That sounds like a complete clown show. Even if “it” happened, that is inexcusable.

[X-band '01]

Don't forget that ESPN fired almost all of their college basketball writers last year!

Writers that would actually vet their articles for one. That was more of a cost-cutting measure put in place by their parent company Disney, if I remember correctly.

[xu82]

Writers that would actually vet their articles for one. That was more of a cost-cutting measure put in place by their parent company Disney, if I remember correctly.

They may not save on their legal fees as a result. Oops!

[Muskeagle]

So....here's a little story I heard from a very reliable source, second hand for sure, but a reliable second hand source. It is not about Miller, but does pertain to the world of college basketball as it is today. A former assistant coach from X, who moved on a few years ago and eventually ended up at a low level D-1 school and has had some recent success got hired for a mid-major job, took it and then backed out after stepping foot on campus. Apparently, the reason for his backing out was not cold feet, but college players getting paid. When he visited campus, just before the introductory press conference, he was approached by the two best players on the team he was to take over. They informed him of the "revenue stream" they were currently getting and insinuated that if the current arrangement didn't continue, they would be leaving the team and transferring elsewhere. Not wanting to involve himself in such things, but also not wanting a team with almost no worthwhile players, he decided to return to his small, but successful D-1 school.

It makes one wonder how deep this shit runs. I'm all for changes in the system and I don't even mind players getting a piece of the billion dollar industry that is built on their backs. I don't like how some people, like Jay Bilas, make it seem like there is no reason for the current situation and like there is some simple fix to it all. It is NOT an easy fix as many of you have pointed out. I see that changes need to be made and there are a lot of good ideas out there, but there are also a lot of potential landmines out there. It is certainly for someone above my pay grade to figure out.

[X-band '01]

And the winner is - Pat Kelsey?

[XUFan09]

And the winner is - Pat Kelsey?

Yeah, pretty clearly.

[kellernr]

Cincinnati.com released an article on lance Stephensons high school coach about him taking money to get lance at Lincoln. highly amusing watching their fans flip out. Always knew something was shady about a 5* kid getting picked up by mickey boy.
.

[Xville]

This runs deep and has been going on for a long time but like the steroid era in baseball, people stuck their heads in the sand.

Good high school players are getting paid...oj mayo and bill walker didn't end up at north college hill because they liked the campus landscaping

[xavierj]

This runs deep and has been going on for a long time but like the steroid era in baseball, people stuck their heads in the sand.

Good high school players are getting paid...oj mayo and bill walker didn't end up at north college hill because they liked the campus landscaping

Yes I am pretty sure Huggins had that arranged. Weren’t UC players getting condos or something in the 90’s, that led to probation and Huggs threw the assistant under the bus?

[xu95]

If UMass is paying players, they are doing a pretty crappy job of it.

xu95

[xubrew]

I don't think ESPN is sweating at all.

For starters, the story is still there. They haven't taken it down. For all of ESPN's faults, I don't think they'd be stupid enough to leave the story up on the website as it is now if they felt it wasn't true and that this could land them in deep shit. Although to be fair I guess they were stupid enough to get the dates wrong initially.

Secondly, I think that if they were to get sued, and a court would order them to reveal whatever their source is, they would LOVE it.

Third, as many have pointed out this case is under seal. We've seen numerous situations of how the FBI reacts when something is leaked that they do not want leaked. We've also seen situations where stuff has been leaked, and the FBI has done nothing, and we later learn that the leak came from the FBI. Now, perhaps my reasoning skills are not the best, but I think the source is the FBI, and that they're doing it for some sort of strategic reason. I don't know for sure, but what I do know is that they don't seem the slightest bit annoyed. Perhaps it's their way of shaking the apple tree to get more apples to fall. I don't know.

But, just the fact that the original story is still up and that you can still go to it on ESPN's site should be enough to tell you that they're not sweating.

[muskiefan82]

The FBI "leaker" is an Arizona State fan. Clearly.

[bjf123]

If true, that certainly explains Kelsey’s strange, at the time, acceptance and quick rejection of the job.


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[gladdenguy]

If true, that certainly explains Kelsey’s strange, at the time, acceptance and quick rejection of the job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree. Makes sense too.

[xubrew]

If UMass is paying players, they are doing a pretty crappy job of it.

xu95

So, they pay players a bunch of money to get them to come to UMass, and then suck so it will all go undetected. What a brilliant strategy!

[JTG]

The UMASS business is probably a leftover practice from Calipari
tenure there.

[smileyy]

Looks like there's at least some legs to the Miller story: https://247sports.com/Bolt/Arizona-basketball-scandal-Sean-Miller-university-lawyers-continue-to-negotiate-coachs-fate-115669506

[_LH]

Looks like Mack has a bit of a problem.


https://www.facebook.com/WKRCTV/videos/10156145909081992/

[Nigel Tufnel]

Arizona press conference today at 2:30 EST. Rumblings are that he is going to remain as head coach. What a crazy 6 days to be an Arizona fan.

[kellernr]

Arizona press conference today at 2:30 EST. Rumblings are that he is going to remain as head coach. What a crazy 6 days to be an Arizona fan.As he should. Let all the facts come out and then make a decision on his future.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[smileyy]

Someone's looking bad coming out of this -- either Arizona or ESPN. As others have mentioned, this would be a huge black mark for ESPN.

[STL_XUfan]

Someone's looking bad coming out of this -- either Arizona or ESPN. As others have mentioned, this would be a huge black mark for ESPN.

It is almost seems like that if you cut most of your actual reporters that quality of your reporting might suffer....

[Nigel Tufnel]

Miller coming out swinging!!

Damn.....he's still coach.

[BMoreX]

He just came out and punched ESPN in the face.

[Nigel Tufnel]

He just came out and punched ESPN in the face.

Yes, he most certainly did. Using terms like defamatory. I disagree with Brew...ESPN is in deep shit.

[drudy23]

Regardless of what happens, Sean is getting paid. Take that to the bank.

[paulxu]

I listened to his whole statement.
While being hard on the fact he never spoke to Dawkins "before" Ayton came to AZ, one could infer he spoke to Dawkins afterwards.
About what I don't know.
Sort of hope he's in the clear, but they didn't arrest Book for nothing.
And facing a lot of time in prison, he's going to probably roll on anyone he can. Assume Miller's not worried about that.

[Nigel Tufnel]

If you dislike Dick Vitale, I would recommend you go to his twitter page and read the responses to his most recent tweet. Brutal.

[XUBison]

It’s not weird for Sean to deny the accusations against him (see Pitino after being fired from Louisville), but UA admin and lawyers obviously believe him. Either Sean can substantiate his claim, or the idiots that agreed to his good cause termination clause are even more idiotic than we thought.

[Snipe]

He just came out and punched ESPN in the face.

Not a fan of ESPN. I am a fan of Sean Miller and hope he isn't guilty of the worst of it.

I think that if the FBI had Miller on a wire saying the things they would have claimed they would have arrested him instead of Book.

Would love to see ESPN go down in flames.

The only other thing I wish Sean would have said today is "FAKE NEWS!"

[Lloyd Braun]

I listened to his whole statement.
While being hard on the fact he never spoke to Dawkins "before" Ayton came to AZ, one could infer he spoke to Dawkins afterwards.
About what I don't know.
Sort of hope he's in the clear, but they didn't arrest Book for nothing.
And facing a lot of time in prison, he's going to probably roll on anyone he can. Assume Miller's not worried about that.

He admitted he spoke with Dawkins just not before Ayton gave a verbal... there was also an unfortunate pause in his presser. “I have never discussed with Christian Dawkins paying Deandre Ayton... to attend the University if Arizona.”

I don’t know who to believe really.

[paulxu]

Maybe he said to the trustees...let's ride this out for the next few weeks.
Get through the tournament; see how far we go.
Ayton's going pro. I'll resign for "the good of the school" after the tournament, just pay me 1/2 the buy out.

Edit: I just re-read what I wrote. Sound pretty callous.

[smileyy]

That's a fair point -- AZ can still throw Sean under the bus if it turns out they have to.

[mistabeecee41]

I listened to his whole statement.
While being hard on the fact he never spoke to Dawkins "before" Ayton came to AZ, one could infer he spoke to Dawkins afterwards.
About what I don't know.
Sort of hope he's in the clear, but they didn't arrest Book for nothing.
And facing a lot of time in prison, he's going to probably roll on anyone he can. Assume Miller's not worried about that.

agreed, the whole book thing throws me off.

"I never have paid a recruit or prospect or their family or representative to come to Arizona. I never have and I never will"

that could be true. doesn't mean book didn't. doesn't mean that he didn't know book did anything.

[xu82]

agreed, the whole book thing throws me off.

"I never have paid a recruit or prospect or their family or representative to come to Arizona. I never have and I never will"

that could be true. doesn't mean book didn't. doesn't mean that he didn't know book did anything.

I obviously don’t know who did or did not do what, but I’d NEVER expect Miller to be directly involved with payments. His statement rings as being technically accurate. Does it leave some holes? Sure. Book was arrested.

I hope it turns out OK for him (beyond still getting paid). He won some points from me by staying on the court to congratulate our guys after we beat them last March.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

I thought book was arrested for taking money himself to steer recruits to a particular agent or financier.


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[GoMuskies]

I thought book was arrested for taking money himself to steer recruits to a particular agent or financier.


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He was. Him putting money in his own pocket is why it was a crime and not just an NCAA violation.

[SemajParlor]

Someone's looking bad coming out of this -- either Arizona or ESPN. As others have mentioned, this would be a huge black mark for ESPN.

I think they both look pretty bad to be honest.

[Nigel Tufnel]

At this point, I'm in Miler's camp. I think the phone contact with Dawkins was about Brian Bowen. And Miller told him to F off. Hence, Miller saying he talked to Dawkins after Ayton signed his NLI...then he said he was offered to pay for a recruit, he said "no," and that player did not commit to Arizona. That's why the writers at 247 said they had sources that heard the tape and said it would vindicate Miller. It was never Ayton...it was Bowen. And espn has corrected their story about 4 times to this point. After Miller's press confenrence, espn changed their story from Ayton being implicated to "a recruit." Regardless of whether Sean is innocent or guilty of these accusations, espn should be ashamed.

[Mel Cooley XU'81]

Nigel is "Must Follow" on this thread.

[OTRMUSKIE]

I hope this is correct because I hate to think he is that big of a dbag.

[GIMMFD]

At this point, I'm in Miler's camp. I think the phone contact with Dawkins was about Brian Bowen. And Miller told him to F off. Hence, Miller saying he talked to Dawkins after Ayton signed his NLI...then he said he was offered to pay for a recruit, he said "no," and that player did not commit to Arizona. That's why the writers at 247 said they had sources that heard the tape and said it would vindicate Miller. It was never Ayton...it was Bowen. And espn has corrected their story about 4 times to this point. After Miller's press confenrence, espn changed their story from Ayton being implicated to "a recruit." Regardless of whether Sean is innocent or guilty of these accusations, espn should be ashamed.

ESPN really screwed the pooch on it, changing the story 4 times is really bad, you gotta think of when you get news like this, what is the motivation of the other person, and how reliable is this news. ESPN obviously didn't do so hot in the vetting process, and could lose a lot of credibility if it turns out Miller is clean. Not only did they mess the report up, inappropriately announced his firing, his contract details, and a whole lot of other things. Even if Miller is clean I think a cloud will still be over Arizona, but if ESPN really messed up this bad, they're definitely in the dog house as well.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Nigel is "Must Follow" on this thread.

Hehe. I really didn't have a dog in the fight. Except for how this would make X look by association. But I had a couple of trials get continued...next thing I know I'm completely down the rabbit hole on this. I wasn't rooting for Miller one way or the other (but maybe rooting against ESPN) until I saw his press conference today. I believe he was really pissed and his feelings were hurt over being convicted by ESPN over such a flimsy article. The beginning of Zona's game tonight will be much watch TV. Those fans are going to blow the roof off of the McHale Center tonight when Sean walks on the floor.

Don't know if it was an ESPN hatchet job or if they simply got bad info. It is weird to see Vitale defend Pitino, Self and proclaim Pearl to be the coach of the year, while at the same time killing Miller on a flimsy article. Has sports reporting gone the way of politics where espn defends the teams it has contracts with while throwing fox teams under the bus? If so, for shame. There are a lot of very good reporters who have been laid off by ESPN recently....gotta believe they are licking their chops to bury their former employer.

[_LH]

http://https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/sean-miller-arizona-coach-press-conference-report-denial-gary-parrish/

[xukeith]

Arizona coach Sean Miller got his lawyer, met with Board of Trustees, AD, President, and all believe Miller did nothing wrong nor Ayton.
Maybe ESPN or Yahoo made a big boo boo.
Hmmm.....

[XUFan09]

Arizona coach Sean Miller got his lawyer, met with Board of Trustees, AD, President, and all believe Miller did nothing wrong nor Ayton.
Maybe ESPN or Yahoo made a big boo boo.
Hmmm.....Where did you hear about Yahoo flubbing an article? My understanding is that ESPN's rushed job might actually be in part due to getting beat by Yahoo on some of these recent stories.

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[waggy]

Has sports reporting gone the way of politics where espn defends the teams it has contracts with while throwing fox teams under the bus? If so, for shame.

They pay billions for the rights. Their position isn't neutral. In fact they are full on promoters.

ESPN tried take out Arizona, no doubt about. But they phucked it up.

[xcellentx]

I don't know if the report is right or wrong, but I'm not sure as ESPN how you run with that story without a transcript or recording that you can put out. Something is weird with this story at the very least.

The main problem with this story and the Dawkin's story is that we haven't actually seen any evidence. We don't have the recording, or even quotes from the recording, of Miller. We have a spreadsheet from a super unreliable source of paying players. That expense report means nothing without anything to back it up.

Yahoo did fine just showing what they had, and didn't claim anything more than that. Yahoo didn't say the players were paid, just said that this sheet from Dawkins says they were. ESPN claimed something that they can't show us.