BE Tiebreaker

[AviatorX]

Does this BE do one of these "tiebreakers are only for seeding" deals? For instance, if X and Nova both finish 15-3 are they co-champions? Obviously would be hilarious to consider X "co-champs" with a team that drilled them twice but hey not gonna turn down a title right?

[atljar]

Tie breaker is h2h record.... So nova needs to lose again

[AviatorX]

Tie breaker is h2h record.... So nova needs to lose again

Right...but my question is whether that's just for seeding purposes or conference title purposes. Obviously it would make sense in a round robin format for that to tie break for both situations but couldn't find anything clear online.

[Snipe]

My guess is that the tie breaker is for seeding and both teams would be co champs. That is the way it was in our past leagues if my memory serves. There isn't a huge incentive to say only 1 team can be the regular season champ.

[HenryMuto]

tie breaker for seeding but they are co-champs that is how Kansas has won 13 straight some were co-champs

[xavierj]

Nova still has to play at Creighton and seton hall so if Xavier wins out they have a very good shot to still be big east champs.

[XUFan09]

Nova still has to play at Creighton and seton hall so if Xavier wins out they have a very good shot to still be big east champs.If they win out, they will be co-champs. They might end up being a 2 seed, but they would be champions.

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[muethibp]

The closest I can find to evidence of “co-champs” in a situation where one team had a head-to-head advantage is 2004-05 where basketball reference and Wikipedia (places I’ve looked) refer to Boston College and UCONN as co-champions even though they played once and BC won.

[OTRMUSKIE]

If we tie can we really call ourselves co champs. I mean we clearly don’t deserve it after being destroyed by nova.

[X-band '01]

If Xavier ties, hell yes. Regular season sweeps against Butler, Creighton, Seton Hall, Marquette and St. John's. Make no mistake Villanova is in the driver's seat with the head-to-head, but they still have to go to Seton Hall and Creighton to finish the job.

Xavier came out better in their home game against Creighton following the first Villanova loss. It will take a similar laser focus to beat Georgetown again at their place.

[XUFan09]

If we tie can we really call ourselves co champs. I mean we clearly don’t deserve it after being destroyed by nova.There's another side to that story, though. If Xavier is co-champs, it means that Nova lost two more games than Xavier outside of head-to-head matchups. Head-to-head record is good for a tiebreaker to determine seeding, but in an 18-game round-robin season, it's just about record to determine champions.

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[GoMuskies]

Win 3 and we hang a banner. Hopefully there's no hangover from yesterday's game.

[American X]

Hopefully there's no hangover from yesterday's game.

There is definitely at least one hangover from yesterday's game.

[AviatorX]

If we tie can we really call ourselves co champs. I mean we clearly don’t deserve it after being destroyed by nova.

Yes but Nova lost to St. Johns and Butler.

[xu82]

If they win out, they will be co-champs. They might end up being a 2 seed, but they would be champions.

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I’m going with this, and you can’t stop me!

[xu82]

There is definitely at least one hangover from yesterday's game.

I’m doing a little better now, but thanks for understanding....

[xuwin]

If we tie can we really call ourselves co champs. I mean we clearly don’t deserve it after being destroyed by nova.

Not necessarily. Villanova got destroyed by 2 teams that Xavier beat twice. You have to look at the whole body of work.

[xu koop scoop]

The whole BE Tiebreaker will probably not be an issue. Either NOVA loses 1 more or XU loses 1 more. If someone loses 2 more, I'd have to bet it would be XU. GTown & DePaul need something to hang their hat on & Providence already go us once.

[XMuskieFTW]

The whole BE Tiebreaker will probably not be an issue. Either NOVA loses 1 more or XU loses 1 more. If someone loses 2 more, I'd have to bet it would be XU. GTown & DePaul need something to hang their hat on & Providence already go us once.

:headscratch:

[X-band '01]

For some reason, Xavier plays their best ball against middling teams like Providence at home, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that one at home.

Georgetown and DePaul can pose some bad matchups, but are certainly winnable games away from home. I just hope the guys didn't put all the eggs in the Villanova basket with other games still on the table. Two years ago, Xavier beat Nova and didn't look sharp at all after that point. They barely beat an NIT-bound Creighton at home, had a decent win against Marquette in the Big East tournament and 2 losses to Seton Hall. I won't even get into what happened afterwards.

[American X]

Xavier @ Georgetown is the definition of a letdown game. If would have been nice if Xavier's bye was this Wednesday rather than Saturday.

[muethibp]

My initial reaction was "you can't be co-champs with a team that beat you twice." I've softened on that.

The regular season competition is everyone playing the same 18 games and who comes out best on the other side. Sure, Xavier lost twice to Villanova in this competition but also did two things (so far) that Villanova did not do (wins at SJU and Butler). Why should Villanova's excellence against X trump their shortcomings in those other areas?

[muethibp]

Xavier @ Georgetown is the definition of a letdown game. If would have been nice if Xavier's bye was this Wednesday rather than Saturday.

No, it's really not the definition of a letdown game...not following a loss, it's not. Had X beat Nova, it would be the dictionary example of a letdown game.

[X Factor]

My initial reaction was "you can't be co-champs with a team that beat you twice." I've softened on that.

The regular season competition is everyone playing the same 18 games and who comes out best on the other side. Sure, Xavier lost twice to Villanova in this competition but also did two things (so far) that Villanova did not do (wins at SJU and Butler). Why should Villanova's excellence against X trump their shortcomings in those other areas?

Exactly how I felt and now feel.

[novachap]

Not necessarily. Villanova got destroyed by 2 teams that Xavier beat twice. You have to look at the whole body of work.


"destroyed" is an interesting way to define the losses. Nova's 3 losses were by 8 to Butler, 4 to St. John's and 5 to Providence... total of 17 points for 3 games.

Not for nothing, I believe the conf champs should be based on the 18 games, the whole body of work is what matters imo. No issue with "co-champs" if that is the way it shakes out.

[Xavier]

"destroyed" is an interesting way to define the losses. Nova's 3 losses were by 8 to Butler, 4 to St. John's and 5 to Providence... total of 17 points for 3 games.

Not for nothing, I believe the conf champs should be based on the 18 games, the whole body of work is what matters imo. No issue with "co-champs" if that is the way it shakes out.

Around here keeping it within 10 is a dominating performance against Nova.

[letskeepitreal]

"destroyed" is an interesting way to define the losses. Nova's 3 losses were by 8 to Butler, 4 to St. John's and 5 to Providence... total of 17 points for 3 games.

Not for nothing, I believe the conf champs should be based on the 18 games, the whole body of work is what matters imo. No issue with "co-champs" if that is the way it shakes out.

I had heard that there are tiebreakers to identify Big East conference winner and the first tiebreaker is head to head so Nova wins. In my mind, the only way for X to win the Big East conference season is for Nova to have one more loss than X. I think we would be fooling ourselves/delusional to think we were Big East co champs with Nova if we have the same record when they beat us pretty good twice. If that's the rule of the conference regarding tiebreakers so be it but if one determines that all on their own, I ain't buying it. To be the best you gotta beat the best.

[XUFan09]

I had heard that there are tiebreakers to identify Big East conference winner and the first tiebreaker is head to head so Nova wins. In my mind, the only way for X to win the Big East conference season is for Nova to have one more loss than X. I think we would be fooling ourselves/delusional to think we were Big East co champs with Nova if we have the same record when they beat us pretty good twice. If that's the rule of the conference regarding tiebreakers so be it but if one determines that all on their own, I ain't buying it. To be the best you gotta beat the best.I think you're mixing up what you heard about the 1 seed with the conditions for conference champs. Conference champs in a round-robin schedule is determined by the 18 games you play, not just two while others are auxiliary. If X ties Nova while being two games down in the head-to-head, it says something negative about Nova's ability to take care of the other 8 teams in the conference and something positive about X concerning the same.

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[novachap]

My understanding is the the league would crown the "co-champs" if they finish with the same record. The tie breaker is strictly for seeding in the BET. That is what was done in prior years of the BE---there were several years with ties.

By the way, I really thought with Booth out and with Nova limping, you guys would not only win, but do so handily on Saturday. Nova just looked incredibly focused and dialed in. Obviously shot well in the first half, but also pushed back every run in the second half. A key to the game, although his stats weren't gaudy was Paschal. We missed him immensely when he was out---similar to Booth, really important cogs. Brunson missed shots he normally makes, but his assists / leadership on the floor were great and obviously Donte (21, 9, 9) and Bridges were fantastic.

I noticed not a lot has been said about X not going to the 1-3-1. I realize that historically Nova has done really well against it (they kind of lick their chops when a team goes zone) but I see it as a crucial part of your arsenal. It gets you going at the right pace with turnovers and hides the weaker man to man defenders. Clearly, it will be an incredible tool in the tournament---just like last year.

Finally (sorry--long post) Trevon is just a flat out assassin. He is so good offensively. I understand Jay told him (and JP as well) he was happy to not be facing them again! Marshall and Scruggs are very good, strong and have fantastic futures. They are going to be a force in the league for years. If either / both develop a consistent jumper---man oh man. Speaking of that, do you have any snipers coming i next year? Gonna miss that part of TB and JP's game imo.

[smileyy]

I'm wondering if Mack thinks the 1-3-1 got overexposed in 2016 and is holding it back so that its not as easily scouted as it has been in the past.

[drudy23]

I'm wondering if Mack thinks the 1-3-1 got overexposed in 2016 and is holding it back so that its not as easily scouted as it has been in the past.

No - it's just not as effective.

[XU 87]

I think they were playing 1-3-1 much more earlier in the season but haven't played as much lately, particularly during the winning streak. 1-3-1 would have been a bad idea against 'Nova with they way they were shooting.

[markchal]

I know the numbers don't reflect it but I also think Mack is happier with our man d this season than last. Jones is a decent defender, and Scruggs/Marshall are coming on pretty well last few games. I don't think Q is a terrible defender, although I seemed to think he was better last year/earlier this season, but maybe I'm imagining that.

[mid major]

No - it's just not as effective.

I think the 1-3-1 loses its efficiency and effectiveness when your opponent shoots the lights out.

[paulxu]

I think most defenses suck when your opponents shoot the lights out.

[XUFan09]

I think the 1-3-1 loses its efficiency and effectiveness when your opponent shoots the lights out.Also, conference foes just have a lot of experience in how to attack it. Anyone that watches Xavier play the 1-3-1 knows where the ideal places to shoot the ball are. When it's new to an opponent, though, it's hard to get the ball to those spots. However, when a coach has a lot of tape on the defense and his veteran players also instinctively know what to do, it becomes easier to exploit the 1-3-1.

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[D-West & PO-Z]

Yeah I'm pretty confident we havent seen the last of the 1-3-1 on the year. As others have said I think it could be big in the NCAA tourney.

[RoseyMuskie]

My understanding is the the league would crown the "co-champs" if they finish with the same record. The tie breaker is strictly for seeding in the BET. That is what was done in prior years of the BE---there were several years with ties.

By the way, I really thought with Booth out and with Nova limping, you guys would not only win, but do so handily on Saturday. Nova just looked incredibly focused and dialed in. Obviously shot well in the first half, but also pushed back every run in the second half. A key to the game, although his stats weren't gaudy was Paschal. We missed him immensely when he was out---similar to Booth, really important cogs. Brunson missed shots he normally makes, but his assists / leadership on the floor were great and obviously Donte (21, 9, 9) and Bridges were fantastic.

I noticed not a lot has been said about X not going to the 1-3-1. I realize that historically Nova has done really well against it (they kind of lick their chops when a team goes zone) but I see it as a crucial part of your arsenal. It gets you going at the right pace with turnovers and hides the weaker man to man defenders. Clearly, it will be an incredible tool in the tournament---just like last year.

Finally (sorry--long post) Trevon is just a flat out assassin. He is so good offensively. I understand Jay told him (and JP as well) he was happy to not be facing them again! Marshall and Scruggs are very good, strong and have fantastic futures. They are going to be a force in the league for years. If either / both develop a consistent jumper---man oh man. Speaking of that, do you have any snipers coming i next year? Gonna miss that part of TB and JP's game imo.

Unfortunately, not really. Have a grad transfer coming in, who I believe led Dartmouth in scoring two years ago, and he can stretch the floor. X’s strength next year will be it’s length and defensive ability (will have a different identity than this year’s team). Hopefully Mack and Co. can pull in a sniper grad transfer.

[Lamont Sanford]

No to mention Jay Wright STOLE our sniper for next season (Cole Swider). Asshole.

[Juice]

Also, conference foes just have a lot of experience in how to attack it. Anyone that watches Xavier play the 1-3-1 knows where the ideal places to shoot the ball are. When it's new to an opponent, though, it's hard to get the ball to those spots. However, when a coach has a lot of tape on the defense and his veteran players also instinctively know what to do, it becomes easier to exploit the 1-3-1.

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I think X would be vulnerable with it against Nova not only when they're shooting lights out but also because their big men could definitely pop out to the corners and expose more so than any other team we have played this year. Unless I'm forgetting another team, but as far as big men go, Spellman and Paschall have to be the best shooting ones we have played.

[xuwin]

I'm wondering if Mack thinks the 1-3-1 got overexposed in 2016 and is holding it back so that its not as easily scouted as it has been in the past.

The 1-3-1 would not be effective against Villanova because it concedes corner three's and is hard to rebound out of. You can not have unguarded three's against Villanova. They are almost unbeatable when they are making their three's which is most of the time. They had 6 different players make three's against Xavier.

[Snipe]

Xavier @ Georgetown is the definition of a letdown game. If would have been nice if Xavier's bye was this Wednesday rather than Saturday.

Tonights game is Yuge!!