Xavier vs. Seton Hall Game Thread (February 14, 2018)

[American X]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1471725/captainmorgan150.jpg

#4 Xavier Musketeers (23-3, 11-2) vs. Seton Hall Pirates (17-8, 6-6)

Time: 9:00 p.m. ET

Cintas Center | Cincinnati, Ohio

TV: FS1

Radio: 700 WLW Listen Live (https://www.iheart.com/live/700wlw-1713/?autoplay=true&pname=15400&campid=header&cid=index.html)

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)
(http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)

GoXavier Preview (http://goxavier.com/news/2018/2/12/mens-basketball-no-4-xavier-shoots-for-its-ninth-straight-win-on-wednesday-night-vs-seton-hall.aspx)

Full Game Notes (https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/goxavier.com/documents/2018/2/12/2017_18_Xavier_Game_Notes_game_27_vs_Seton_Hall.pd f)


*check back for more links and articles

[chico]

Guessing the lines at the concession stands won't be too long tomorrow. And Quatman's shouldn't even bother showing up.

[X-band '01]

Because of Valentine's Day or Ash Wednesday?

[xu82]

Guessing the lines at the concession stands won't be too long tomorrow. And Quatman's shouldn't even bother showing up.

Dana’s should open just before sunrise, and stay open until Sunday after the Nova game!

(As a Bills fan, that’s not an abnormal thought. Trust me.)

[chico]

Because of Valentine's Day or Ash Wednesday?

Thinking Ash Wednesday because there is no better place to take your significant other than Cintas Center. I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be with my wife.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Totally understood X being short dogs @Butler and @Creighton...but X -4.5? Yuck. I know which side Vegas is on. Hell, Pomeroy’s Game Predictor....and we all know how his numbers hate X, had it at X -7.5. I do not like X -4.5. I’ll probably end up betting X. But it will be a heart bet. I hope Vegas is very wrong about this. Basically, Vegas thinks we are in for another very tight game.

If this were two random teams and I saw this line, I’d take the points. (No. 4 at home against unranked team)

[GIMMFD]

I'm not a betting man thank god, I'd lose a lot of money, but I'm really hoping we just come out strong and not give them confidence, I'd love if we kept a double digit lead throughout. Tre should have a good game since he really loves Cintas, and probably is due for one after just 6 points against Creighton. Let's keep this train rolling and pick up a big win, and set up an insane showdown for Nova.

[powerofX]

We will win by 2 or 3. Our games are destined to be that way this year.

[chico]

Totally understood X being short dogs @Butler and @Creighton...but X -4.5? Yuck. I know which side Vegas is on. Hell, Pomeroy’s Game Predictor....and we all know how his numbers hate X, had it at X -7.5. I do not like X -4.5. I’ll probably end up betting X. But it will be a heart bet. I hope Vegas is very wrong about this. Basically, Vegas thinks we are in for another very tight game.

If this were two random teams and I saw this line, I’d take the points. (No. 4 at home against unranked team)

I'm guessing that's because we've been in a lot of tight games, plus there's the chance that they're looking ahead to Villanova. But it seems like, when we play good teams at home, we take care of business. We beat Baylor and UC by 13, Butler by 7, Creighton by 22. Our close games at home have been against really inferior talent. And even with the seemingly large number of close games, we're 11-5 against the spread at home this year.

[XUFan09]

I'm guessing that's because we've been in a lot of tight games, plus there's the chance that they're looking ahead to Villanova. But it seems like, when we play good teams at home, we take care of business. We beat Baylor and UC by 13, Butler by 7, Creighton by 22. Our close games at home have been against really inferior talent. And even with the seemingly large number of close games, we're 11-5 against the spread at home this year.Yup.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Nigel Tufnel]

I’m sure Vegas is viewing this as the classic trap game. Wounded team playing a highly ranked team at home who may be looking to the next game. But No. 4 at home against an unranked team on a losing streak and it’s -4.5? Vegas can be wrong,,..but I’m wondering if they don’t have some inside info. That low number scares the hell out of me.

[Olsingledigit]

Totally understood X being short dogs @Butler and @Creighton...but X -4.5? Yuck. I know which side Vegas is on. Hell, Pomeroy’s Game Predictor....and we all know how his numbers hate X, had it at X -7.5. I do not like X -4.5. I’ll probably end up betting X. But it will be a heart bet. I hope Vegas is very wrong about this. Basically, Vegas thinks we are in for another very tight game.

If this were two random teams and I saw this line, I’d take the points. (No. 4 at home against unranked team)
I watched the game at SH again today. Without an unbelievable game by JP we are not even inthat game. We will need a lot more balance and steady performances tomorrow to keep from losing let alone covering.

[HenryMuto]

I am surprised X is only favored by 4.5. You get like 3.5 to 4 pts for just being the home team and X already won at Seton Hall and is considered better so not understanding the point spread.

[Emp]

Recent form at the end of regulation the last three games: +1. Before that St. John. We're due, most neutrals would say. I don't think many teams that are highly rated have won all home games. And none but X in the BE.

Personally, I see a 10 point win in the friendly confines. But if that's not the case, we'll make free throws and play the last 4 min like we have all year. These guys are money.

[GIMMFD]

Recent form at the end of regulation the last three games: +1. Before that St. John. We're due, most neutrals would say. I don't think many teams that are highly rated have won all home games. And none but X in the BE.

Personally, I see a 10 point win in the friendly confines. But if that's not the case, we'll make free throws and play the last 4 min like we have all year. These guys are money.

I will say that's true, where other teams seem to fold up in crunch time, I have great confidence in X down the stretch in a tight one, we've just showed time and time again we have the toughness to get it done. Looking for more of the same if that situation arises.

[drudy23]

At this point in the year, they're all tough. I'd be shocked if tonight was easy.

[Lamont Sanford]

St. Francis Xavier...pray for us.

Our Lady of Victory...pray for us.

Just get that Dub tonight.

[GoMuskies]

Up to -5

[webxu]

2244

[bleedXblue]

Huge to get the W, to make Saturday the biggest home game in the history if the Tas.

I'm expecting close to 11,000....seriously

[American X]

Enquirer Preview (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2018/02/13/no-4-xavier-basketball-continues-push-big-east-title-seton-hall-visit/334600002/)

Fox Sports Preview (https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/boxscore?id=96852&type=5)

[whopper]

there will be many 4 min wars and everyone must play solid. JP will be a marked man so we need an uptick from everyone else. I think our centers combined for 2 points last game so there is room there but it will be a very intense game. We are blessed to have such quality games week in and week out and you can only imagine if you are at a Rutgers type program how much less interesting it would be.

[X-band '01]

I also have a feeling Khadeen Carrington isn't going to have a repeat performance of poor shooting like he did in the first game.

If the Pirates get in foul trouble, I would feel really good in that they don't have any proven options off the bench that can make a difference.

[xumuskies08]

Huge to get the W, to make Saturday the biggest home game in the history if the Tas.

I'm expecting close to 11,000....seriously

Will tonight even be a sellout? I saw Brennan tweet yesterday that there were about 300 tickets left but that everything (including SRO) was sold out for Saturday. They've sold out every game so far and it'd be really cool to have the entire season sellout.

[gladdenguy]

Is Delgado bothered at all by his dislocated knee? I saw Shannon mention that in her Facebook post.

[Xuperman]

I also have a feeling Khadeen Carrington isn't going to have a repeat performance of poor showoting like he did in the first game.

Yeah, he was 0-7 from 3 land, but he normally only hits about 1 out of 3 anyway. It is Myles Powell that concerns me more. Scored 25 Saturday, with a 5-10 effort from distance. He was really in a groove late, brimming with confidence. Not going to hold him to just 11 points this time. Probably closer to double that.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Will tonight even be a sellout? I saw Brennan tweet yesterday that there were about 300 tickets left but that everything (including SRO) was sold out for Saturday. They've sold out every game so far and it'd be really cool to have the entire season sellout.

I think he may have meant the 11,000 for Nova.

Plenty of tickets left for SH on X site for tonight when I looked last night.

[Joel]

Banners preview (https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2018/2/14/17010308/xavier-v-seton-hall-preview-matchups-keys-to-the-game-big-east-basketball-take-care-of-business)

[nuts4xu]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV__0b6W0AEY_Y4.jpg:large

[markchal]

double digit win

[dethwing]

It had better be. I don't know if my heart can take another nail biter! :)

[HenryMuto]

Wish this game was earlier both Xavier and Kentucky play at same time boo..............Will have to flip back and forth.

Hopefully we blow out Seton Hall so I feel better about Kentucky probably getting hammered at Auburn.

[bleedXblue]

Wish this game was earlier both Xavier and Kentucky play at same time boo..............Will have to flip back and forth.

Hopefully we blow out Seton Hall so I feel better about Kentucky probably getting hammered at Auburn.

Watching UK get hammered or watching Xavier win.....I cant decide which I like more.

[GoMuskies]

Watching UK get hammered or watching Xavier win.....I cant decide which I like more.

Both are awesome. Go Muskies and War Eagle!

[GoMuskies]

I wanted to get X on the ML this morning when the line was 4.5, but there was no ML at that point. By the time I saw a ML, the spread was up to X -6, so I only got X -255. Oh, well. As long as X wins, I'm perfectly fine with the reduced winnings from ML moving against me.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I wanted to get X on the ML this morning when the line was 4.5, but there was no ML at that point. By the time I saw a ML, the spread was up to X -6, so I only got X -255. Oh, well. As long as X wins, I'm perfectly fine with the reduced winnings from ML moving against me.

Wow. Surprising you would eat that kind of juice. I just couldn’t do that...spread, over/under. I’d find something to bet on at -110 at the worst. I very rarely take -115. Obviously hoping it hits.

[GoMuskies]

Wow. Surprising you would eat that kind of juice. I just couldn’t do that...spread, over/under. I’d find something to bet on at -110 at the worst. I very rarely take -115. Obviously hoping it hits.

I almost never bet Xavier on anything but the ML. I don't want to be pissed about a win or happy about a loss.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I almost never bet Xavier on anything but the ML. I don't want to be pissed about a win or happy about a loss.

Ahhh...a Xavier exception? You wouldn’t bet other games and eat that kind of juice, would you?

[GoMuskies]

Ahhh...a Xavier exception? You wouldn’t bet other games and eat that kind of juice, would you?

Not usually, but I like some moneyline action here and there. Honestly,it's usually to fill in a parlay.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Love seeing that line go up...

[GIMMFD]

Have a feeling the boys will come through in a big way tonight, hopefully they're amped and ready to get it.

[ballyhoohoo]

Always makes me laugh.

https://youtu.be/HpRlBnEUSW4

[Blue Blooded-05]

The end of this Nova Providence game is excruciating. The refs have gone to the monitor 3 times in the final minute.

[HenryMuto]

Win tonight and win on Saturday and all but lock up the league championship being 2 up in the loss column with 3 games left.

[HenryMuto]

Trevon freaking Bluiett !

[HenryMuto]

Did I mention........Trevon freaking Bluiett !

[Lloyd Braun]

Tre is cookin

[X Factor]

Great start boys!!

[Grizzx12]

Spread went in a direction that favored us today.....someone must've notified Vegas Trevon was spotted arriving to the Cintas today in a bucket truck!!

[HenryMuto]

It's early but 4.5 never made since always thought it should been around 7.5

[HenryMuto]

3 ball falling tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!

25-11

[Lloyd Braun]

Is it me or has Tyrique put on a few lbs this season?

[paulxu]

Love our D effort. Not our sloppy passes.

[HenryMuto]

Still early but that 4.5 seemed absurd despite our struggles to blow teams out.

[HenryMuto]

This game a lot more fun then the Kentucky game right now for me.

[xavierj]

Tim Brando struggling tonight. Kept saying a leg issue for Tyrique, had desi with 3 fouls and then said Xavier was down 19 but it wasn’t for a lack of trying.

[Grizzx12]

WOW!! "You gotta get out there and cover him" was the call on Q taking a step back 3! Things are going well

[paulxu]

Watching Goodin go to the basket as the clock expires, and get nothing vs. Scruggs driving/pulling up for a 10 footer reminds me the mid range jump shot is just about dead. But really effective if used correctly.

[HenryMuto]

Will it count ???????

[Lloyd Braun]

Alrighty then

[HenryMuto]

FAWK won't count missed it by 0.1

[Blue Blooded-05]

All in all, I’d say we can’t complain with that first half. Even if Q’s 3 doesn’t count, future opponents will watch the film and see he was 3-5 from three in the first half. Won’t be able to pack it in like they were in the first half of the season.

[GoMuskies]

Missed most of the first half. Apparently it did not suck.

[X Factor]

Great half!!

Tim Brando talking about Scruggs taking over Goodin....someone should tell him Goodin's just a sophmore.

[letskeepitreal]

Gooden and Scruggs 15 pts, 3 assts and no turnovers. Can’t wait for the dance!

[GreatWhiteNorth]

This game is so easy to watch, for a change..........so relaxing, enjoyable, no tension.

[GoMuskies]

60 minutes of basketball from being in complete command in the Big East. Let's go!!!!!!

[GoMuskies]

Don't love that start to the second half.

[HenryMuto]

Wish that 3 counted at the end of the half...............

[HenryMuto]

Lead down to 11 damn it

[GoMuskies]

Getting worse

[HenryMuto]

Trevon to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[D-West & PO-Z]

Tre2K is on fire tonight!!!

[GoMuskies]

Figured Willard was due for a T.

[GoMuskies]

Trevon is absurd tonight. Stupid hot

[Blue Blooded-05]

I expect Tre to shoot 8-10 from 3 from here on out

[GoMuskies]

It doesn't feel like this one is over.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Trevon is absurd tonight. Stupid hot

Just wish he had the athleticism to compete in Big East. Imagine how good he'd be then!

[GoMuskies]

I'll be happy when this is over.

[HenryMuto]

WTF O'Mara lead down to 12 now

[Grizzx12]

WTF O'Mara lead down to 12 now

Acting job again gets the refs to bite by SHU. Didnt see anything and should've been a put back by Tyrique

[Blue Blooded-05]

These refs are determined to make this game about them

[GoMuskies]

This is some ridiculous officiating.

[HenryMuto]

WTF ? Lead down to 10

[HenryMuto]

Can someone explain how they just got 2 FT's, a basket and 2 more FT's ?

I do not get WTF just happened

TIME TEAM PLAY SCORE
9:17 Sandro Mamukelashvili made Free Throw. 67 - 77
9:17 Sandro Mamukelashvili made Free Throw. 66 - 77
9:22 Sandro Mamukelashvili made Layup. Assisted by Jordan Walker. 65 - 77
9:26 Myles Powell made Free Throw. 63 - 77
9:26 Myles Powell made Free Throw. 62 - 77

[paulxu]

Something just doesn't seem right about all those FT's.

[Grizzx12]

Did they just give Seton Hall 2 free points?

[powerofX]

This is some ridiculous officiating.

Not sure how Jamie lucky has a job. Google him and about 20 stories from 6 different conferences pop up about how he is horrible

[Lloyd Braun]

So... they shot the technical FTs, got a possession and scored, then realized it should have been 1-and-1 FTs so they got two more technical FTs? And the basket counts from the possession that should not have occurred???

[HenryMuto]

So... they shot the technical FTs, got a possession and scored, then realized it should have been 1-and-1 FTs so they got two more technical FTs? And the basket counts from the possession that should not have occurred???

That is how it seems. Sounds like they should not have got the ball to get that basket it should been 2 tech FT's and then 1 and 1.

So they get 6 pts when they should have maxed out at 4.

How do you allow this to happen ?

[Lloyd Braun]

Not only that... but if you can take a stopwatch and manually time a play to determine if a basket counts, why can’t you correct this? Seems too easy.

[Grizzx12]

Dude, Gates gotta keep his head up there and grab that

[paulxu]

Kaiser is struggling. Hate to see that. Wish he would get back on track.

[GoMuskies]

This is not going well.

[mistabeecee41]

Lol Chris let’s it go this long without calling a timeout? We’ve been playing like shit for 10 minutes

[paulxu]

Taking nothing away from the Hall and their effort, but damn guys. Come on. Wake up.

Let's get this thing.

[HenryMuto]

So we missed getting 3 points to end the half by 0.1 seconds.

Then they get a phantom basket that should never been allowed.

Lead down to 6.

Unreal we can't lose this game.

[letskeepitreal]

We’re trying to emulate Providence. Trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Let’s get it together guys!

[xavierj]

13 offensive rebounds for the Hall. That’s why it’s 6 pts.

[HenryMuto]

If we lose this game the O'Mara mistake cost us the game no doubt 100% cost us the game.

[X Factor]

This could be the worst half of defense X has played all year...

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Sh..t! Don’t tell me. Can’t let this one get away from us.

[Xuperman]

It is Myles Powell that concerns me more. Scored 25 Saturday, with a 5-10 effort from distance. He was really in a groove late, brimming with confidence. Not going to hold him to just 11 points this time. Probably closer to double that.

Well, here we go!!!

[xavierj]

Can’t believe Tre didn’t shoot that. He was wide open.

[X Factor]

Seton Hall has scored 56 points this half!!

[X Factor]

And what has happened to Kaiser Gates? Naji Marshall has completely taken his minutes.

[Xuperman]

And what has happened to Kaiser Gates? Naji Marshall has completely taken his minutes.

Go to the KG thread and vent....I do...

[paulxu]

I thought we played really good defense in the first half.

Not so much after that.

[xavierj]

Xavier called a TO to let Tre give him a wide open 3. This half may never end.

[GoMuskies]

Thank you JP

[Blue Blooded-05]

College basketball needs to do something about late game timeouts. It’s ridiculous how long it takes to finish the last 2 minutes of game time.

[Grizzx12]

JP picked a nice time to show up out of nowhere

[D-West & PO-Z]

College basketball needs to do something about late game timeouts. It’s ridiculous how long it takes to finish the last 2 minutes of game time.

They recently took away a timeout from teams. They used to get 5.

[GoMuskies]

Is this the first time we've actually been alone in first (not this half game bullshit)?

[HenryMuto]

Hard to believe we had to sweat this one out up 20+.

Just glad to get the win.

[bobbiemcgee]

Hall scored 65 in 2nd half.

[whopper]

A nice team effort (those crazy foul shots and Powell stole 10 its- there was no scouting report on Mamu which confused everyone and gave him some bunnies)
SHU actually played better with Mamu and it may help them going forward unless Delgado is damaged physically which is the rumor. Nobody played poorly (Kanter had 2 blocks but still has not scored against SHU). Macura steal against Mamu underrated key. There are no easy ones now ever..Depaul beat PC at the Dunk then PC beat Villanova 3 days later.

[Lloyd Braun]

Hall scored 65 in 2nd half.

Still won by double digits!

[bobbiemcgee]

Still won by double digits!

Haha...no problem right? Checking pacemaker prices.

[IM4X]

X looked really great for the most part but damn, some of this crap is the one concern I've posted before is a reoccurring issue that could end up leading to a loss.

X is certainly proving they are good enough at this point to blow out teams like this by 20+... yet they always seem to get lazy and sloppy after building a big lead and then Mack often decides he will try to let the team play through it instead of calling a time out... often resulting in letting teams get right back in the game.

There is no excuse for this. Play hard for 40 minutes. Play smart for 40 minutes.

At the same time... I am so proud of how well these guys are playing together!!!!!

Great games by Tre, Goodin, Naji, Sean and Scruggs.

[Lloyd Braun]

You shouldn’t have to call timeout at home to stop momentum... I like letting them play out of it. They were never in danger of losing the game.

[IM4X]

Maybe you shouldn't have to call a time out at home to stop momentum, but sometimes it is necessary. I don't like giving up that many points beforecalling a time out.

A team can lose their confidence which can lead to an even bigger swing and even a loss. A few too many games were made closer than they needed to be recently because big runs were allowed without a TO.

[XUBison]

What the hell was that second half? Absolutely stupid.

[Xuperman]

And a nice game for Agent Zero.....nice to have him back!!!

[Grizzx12]

Another win is great but damn, allowing 65 in a half is sort of absurd. My brain hurts thinking about giving up 65 in a half but still winning by 12? Ill take the high road because I dont think this happens again but wow

[D-West & PO-Z]

You shouldn’t have to call timeout at home to stop momentum... I like letting them play out of it. They were never in danger of losing the game.

Yeah I agree. Mack was also waiting for the under 4 timeout but had to take one when it was cut to 6 but I agree wit his strategy, especially at home.

[xu82]

I’ll trust our coach. Nobody is perfect, but I’ll go with the odds.

[XUBison]

Another win is great but damn, allowing 65 in a half is sort of absurd. My brain hurts thinking about giving up 65 in a half but still winning by 12? Ill take the high road because I dont think this happens again but wow

Didn’t we score 57 in the 2nd half? And we lost 8 points off our halftime lead? In a 20 minute half of college hoops? Is it possible FS1 accidentally switched over to a Knicks game at half?

[Cheesehead]

This is some ridiculous officiating.

They were truly awful and contributed to Hall getting back in it.

[xumuskies08]

65 points allowed in a half is BRUTAL, but I'll take the W.

[Grizzx12]

Can anyone explain why when O'Mara got a T, Hall got the two shots, took the ball up and scored, then got two more shots? I have no idea why that happened and I think they said it had something to do wit the scoring table but I really have no clue?

[muskiefan82]

Can anyone explain why when O'Mara got a T, Hall got the two shots, took the ball up and scored, then got two more shots? I have no idea why that happened and I think they said it had something to do wit the scoring table but I really have no clue?

Here is what I understand. When Sean got the T, he got it for saying something about the call on Tyrique Jones. That foul (on Jones) was foul #7 and should have been a 1 and 1, but instead the refs let Seton Hall shoot the technical fouls then run a play. They then realized that, OOPS, Seton Hall should have shot free throws for the foul so they decided it was a correctable error and let them shoot them at that point.

[GoMuskies]

But also they scored on the possession after the T, so the FTs really were just two free points for them.

[paulxu]

Seton Hall should have shot free throws for the foul so they decided it was a correctable error and let them shoot them at that point.

I'm not sure, but I think (if what you say is correct) that when they shot the foul shots for the "correctable" error, there was nobody on the line.
If it was to be a 1 and 1 (I know he made both) why weren't the teams lined up for it in case the first one missed?

[muskiefan82]

I'm not sure, but I think (if what you say is correct) that when they shot the foul shots for the "correctable" error, there was nobody on the line.
If it was to be a 1 and 1 (I know he made both) why weren't the teams lined up for it in case the first one missed?

I have no idea. All I know is that Mack said that the refs told him that Seton Hall got 2 for the T then possession and they scored. Then they realized after Xavier had inbounded the ball that they were also supposed to get free throws for the "alleged" foul on Tyrique. Why there was no one on the line I have no idea.

[bleedXblue]

I'm sure this has been covered already, but the foul by Jones that lead to the O'Mara technical was a travesty of officiating.

Seriously, how hard is it?

And how hard is it to not call obvious flops? For crying out loud.......

These guys get paid?

[XU 87]

I'm not sure, but I think (if what you say is correct) that when they shot the foul shots for the "correctable" error, there was nobody on the line.
If it was to be a 1 and 1 (I know he made both) why weren't the teams lined up for it in case the first one missed?

Because it was Xavier's ball when they stopped play to shoot the free throws. Possession had to return to X after the free throws were shot.

[XU 87]

Can anyone explain why when O'Mara got a T, Hall got the two shots, took the ball up and scored, then got two more shots? I have no idea why that happened and I think they said it had something to do wit the scoring table but I really have no clue?

I couldn't remember that- did Seton Hall score on that possession after the O'Mara T? If so, why they also get to shoot a 1-1? I can see shooting the 1-1 if they didn't score on that possession, but if they did, that's just giving them 2 free points.

[X-man]

I couldn't remember that- did Seton Hall score on that possession after the O'Mara T? If so, why they also get to shoot a 1-1? I can see shooting the 1-1 if they didn't score on that possession, but if they did, that's just giving them 2 free points.

I'm still waiting for an explanation on that one. Can't possibly be correct. Yet the ref's never corrected it. Truly bizarre....and incompetent.

[X-band '01]

That was weird - I thought once Seton Hall ran a play and the clock started, that could no longer be corrected? The 1-and-1 should have taken place after the technical free throws.

With that said, there should not have been a second instance of Seton Hall shooting free throws with nobody in the lane.

[XMuskieFTW]

Myles Powell shot the two technical free throws. Then it should have been the 1 and 1, but instead it went Technical free throws, Seton Hall possession layup, then as X was in bounding play was stopped. They forgot about the 1 and 1 so then decided to let them shoot that, but when they shot that, no one was allowed on the block. I have no idea if he had missed the first if he would've gotten a second or not. Basically they got a free possession sandwiched in there that they shouldn't have is my understanding.

[xu 89]

not awarding FT's is a correctable error within a certain time frame. Rule 2-10 in rules of bb will explain it.

[GoMuskies]

not awarding FT's is a correctable error within a certain time frame. Rule 2-10 in rules of bb will explain it.

But awarding FTs in addition to a possession (that should not have happened because there should have been FTs instead) in which the team scored is compounding error, not correcting it.

[xu 89]

But awarding FTs in addition to a possession (that should not have happened because there should have been FTs instead) in which the team scored is compounding error, not correcting it.

If you look at rule 2-10 points scored prior to recognition of a correctable error shall not be nullified. The officials got it right.

[GoMuskies]

If you look at rule 2-10 points scored prior to recognition of a correctable error shall not be nullified. The officials got it right.

The officials didn't get it right. Points scored before they figured out the correctable error is one thing. Points scored that would not have been scored but for the correctable error is something completely different. There's no justification for allowing Seton Hall to score two points on what should have been an imaginary possession and then score two bonus points on the "correctable error". It was a traveshamockery.

[xu 89]

The officials didn't get it right. Points scored before they figured out the correctable error is one thing. Points scored that would not have been scored but for the correctable error is something completely different. There's no justification for allowing Seton Hall to score two points on what should have been an imaginary possession and then score two bonus points on the "correctable error". It was a traveshamockery.

not sure what you are getting at. they followed the rules and got it right.

[GoMuskies]

They didn't get it right. They literally gifted Seton Hall 2 extra points. Points it would have been impossible for them to score if the "correctable error" hadn't been corrected. They interpreted the rule incorrectly.

[Lloyd Braun]

When is the error not correctable? What if they had waited until 3 seconds left in the game to gift them the FTs? Anyone have a link to rule book? TIA

[XU '11]

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR18.pdf

By the rule, they seemed to get it correct. It's a bad rule.


Art. 5. When an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point of
interruption to correct the error, unless the correction involves the failure to
award a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession
since the error was made. In that case, play shall resume as after any normal
free throw.
a. Points scored, time consumed and additional activity that may occur
before the recognition of the error shall not be nullified.

[xu 89]

When is the error not correctable? What if they had waited until 3 seconds left in the game to gift them the FTs? Anyone have a link to rule book? TIA

must be recognized by official before the next dead ball becomes live. so had Xu gotten the ball in bounds after the SH basket it would have been past the time of being able to be corrected.

[GoMuskies]

By the rule, they seemed to get it correct. It's a bad rule.


Yes, it's a poorly written rule, but they still misinterpreted it, because it is IMPOSSIBLE for that rule to mean that Seton Hall gets to score on a possession AND shoot FTs on the same possession because they later realized they should have shot FTs instead of having the possession on which they scored. What the rule clearly MEANS is that all the activity OUTSIDE OF THAT DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THE "CORRECTABLE ERROR" shall not be nullified. So if Xavier scored on its possession, those points should still count. Since Seton Hall scored on the possession, there was no error to correct, unless you wanted to take away their points because they never should have had the ball in the first place and made them shoot FTs instead. Because actually correcting the error means Seton Hall never scored those first two points. Subsection (a) doesn't change that if you apply a bit of legislative intent to the rule (or just a little common sense if you're the ref).

[xu 89]

When is the error not correctable? What if they had waited until 3 seconds left in the game to gift them the FTs? Anyone have a link to rule book? TIA

only certain instances can be corrected (and very few things can be corrected). Most involve free throws (wrong player given FT's, FT's shot at wrong basket, etc).

[Muskeagle]

I did ref high school basketball and I know about correctable errors, but I'm a little confused about some things:

Was the foul on Tyrique the 6th foul? Then the T on O'Mara the seventh? Seems funny that he get one and one after the T since they weren't in the bonus WHEN the foul was committed. I don't know for sure on this.

IF by rule he should get the one and one, then it should have gone like this...and maybe they got it right:

two technicals
one and one
possession to SH

If that is correct, then, when they realized the error, it all worked out, ostensibly the same. They just got the possession before the one and one....and no, he wouldn't have gotten the second one if he missed the first. X was getting the ball back either way.

That said, I'm not sure if all this is right. It sure felt wrong last night and clearly was not explained well to Chris Mack. I'm also, not sure if possession was supposed to go to them after the one and one. The more recent rules on point of interruption after a tech are more confusing to me.

[muskiefan82]

You know, I thought it made sense at first and it still might IF the foul on Tyrique was the 7th foul. If it was the 6th, then it is all wrong. If it was the 7th, then they would get the 2 tech FT's, the 1 and 1 FT's and possession. I do wonder now if the foul on Tyrique was 6 and the T was the 7th. If that is the case, then there should never have been a 1 and 1

Oh well, Screw it, we won DESPITE the awful zebras

[GoMuskies]

Yes, whether it was right, wrong or somewhere in between, I'm sure glad it didn't really matter!

[Lloyd Braun]

It was the teams 7th foul. The correct sequence would be:
Technical FTs
1-and-1 FT.
That’s it. If he misses the front end of the 1-and-1 they wouldn’t stop play to award possession to SH.

Even more egregious was the actual “foul” on Tyrique. I know refs are human but it sure seemed like there was an agenda to make it a close game.

[bleedXblue]

It was the teams 7th foul. The correct sequence would be:
Technical FTs
1-and-1 FT.
That’s it. If he misses the front end of the 1-and-1 they wouldn’t stop play to award possession to SH.

Even more egregious was the actual “foul” on Tyrique. I know refs are human but it sure seemed like there was an agenda to make it a close game.


Yes, without question. Thats why Shawn reacted the way that he did

[paulxu]

It was the teams 7th foul. The correct sequence would be:
Technical FTs
1-and-1 FT.
That’s it. If he misses the front end of the 1-and-1 they wouldn’t stop play to award possession to SH.

If this is even remotely close to being correct, when they stopped play to "correct" the error, why didn't they disallow the basket scored between the technical Ft's and the 1 and 1 Ft's? They could disallow the basket, reset the clock to after the technical, line everybody up and shoot the 1 and 1's.
That would have "corrected" the situation.

[X-band '01]

Going by the game log, Tyrique committed the 7th team foul (1-and-1) and O'Mara's technical counted as the 8th team foul.

[XU '11]

If this is even remotely close to being correct, when they stopped play to "correct" the error, why didn't they disallow the basket scored between the technical Ft's and the 1 and 1 Ft's? They could disallow the basket, reset the clock to after the technical, line everybody up and shoot the 1 and 1's.
That would have "corrected" the situation.

Because the rule cited above specifically says you don't do that. SHALL NOT does not leave room for interpretation.

a. Points scored, time consumed and additional activity that may occur
before the recognition of the error shall not be nullified.

[scoscox]

I would think that as soon as seton hall inbounded the ball after they were granted possession, the window for it to be a correctable error would be over. If not that’s just a massive loophole in that rule. I’m gonna guess that’s not the case because I’ve never seen this happen before

[X-band '01]

I would think that as soon as seton hall inbounded the ball after they were granted possession, the window for it to be a correctable error would be over. If not that’s just a massive loophole in that rule. I’m gonna guess that’s not the case because I’ve never seen this happen before

It would be funny if officials from other scorers (i.e. Butler) saw this as a precedent to potentially get a couple of freebie points in the future if the officials aren't paying close attention to the fouls. We're fortunate this happened in a game where Xavier had a healthy lead.

[GoMuskies]

It would be funny if officials from other scorers (i.e. Butler) saw this as a precedent to potentially get a couple of freebie points in the future if the officials aren't paying close attention to the fouls. We're fortunate this happened in a game where Xavier had a healthy lead.

I've been thinking of ways to use this as a precedent to scam for the last 16 hours.

[scoscox]

Also, with regard to our defense, and it was bad in the second half, seton hall was also making some ridiculous shots. I know our defense is bad and needs to get better no doubt, but I think playing in the Big East affects how bad our defense seems to play. Every team in the league seems to have atleast one guy who can get a bucket no matter what you do.

[GIMMFD]

Sheesh 4 pages about officials and last two bitching about the 65 we gave up when Hall just played an unbelievable half. I'll choose to focus on the positives instead of the negatives. Tre had 37 MONSTER points, shot lights out, and we won. Nova lost, we are 1.5 games ahead in the Big East. HOLY SHIT WE COULD BE FLAGSHIP AGAIN

[UCGRAD4X]

Amen to that. Flagship once again.It was only a matter of time.