Xavier vs. Marshall Game Thread (December 19, 2017)

[American X]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/ncaa/500/2752.png&h=150&w=150http://collegevault.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/marshall_cv6.png

#10 Xavier Musketeers (10-1, 0-0) vs. Marshall Thundering Herd (8-3, 0-0)

Time: 6:30 p.m. ET

Cintas Center | Cincinnati, Ohio

TV: FS1

Radio: 55 KRC Listen Live (https://www.iheart.com/live/55krc-1709/)

Live Chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=XavierHoops)

Live Stats (http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)
(http://www.sidearmstats.com/xavier/mbball/)

GoXavier Preview (http://goxavier.com/news/2017/12/18/mens-basketball-no-9-8-xavier-closes-homestand-against-high-scoring-marshall-on-tuesday-night.aspx)

Full Game Notes (https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/goxavier.com/documents/2017/12/18/2017_18_Xavier_Game_Notes_12_vs_Marshall.pdf)

Enquirer Preview (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2017/12/18/xavier-could-juggle-starters-marshall-thundering-herd-visit/962481001/)

Fox Sports Preview (https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/boxscore?id=95635&type=5)

Banners on the Parkway Preview
(https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2017/12/19/16793904/pre-duel-pleasantries-marshall)
*check back for more links and articles

[Xuperman]

The 6'7" Bosnian is red hot and on a roll......hoping Kaiser is healthy and ready to play some more stellar "D"!

[mattjh19]

Easy win

[GoMuskies]

Marshall lost to Morehead. That's all you need to know.

[paulxu]

I got this.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41YbQWNFa5L._SY463_.jpg

[X-band '01]

Marshall lost to Morehead. That's all you need to know.

I'd say that's somewhat of a rivalry, but not a good sign to lose to a team that might be in the basement of the Ohio Valley Conference this year.

[XUFan09]

I'd say that's somewhat of a rivalry, but not a good sign to lose to a team that might be in the basement of the Ohio Valley Conference this year.

Is it? Marshall cares a lot more about WVU. No idea how much Morehead State is on their radar.

[GoMuskies]

Is it? Marshall cares a lot more about WVU. No idea how much Morehead State is on their radar.

They're really close to one another is, I believe, X-band's point. That tends to breed some level of rivalry.

[X-band '01]

About 40-50 miles apart. They're closer to Morehead than WVU.

[XUFan09]

About 40-50 miles apart. They're closer to Morehead than WVU.It's about 70 miles. Regardless, Marshall fans care a lot more about WVU than anywhere else. Distance isn't everything. It sounds like they might have a historic rivalry with Morehead State at a lower intensity.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[American X]

I award Marshall points for having a non-generic mascot...and Byron Leftwich.



http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/32/742/full/9640_marshall_thundering_herd-alternate-2001.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/930840574395068416/PByTstFg.jpg


https://youtu.be/U-jzYMSiNHQ

[American X]

I added preview links in original post.

Marshall's forward leads the nation in blocks at 4.8 per game. Maybe we should not do thing where we kept throwing the ball directly into the arms of that tall East Tennessee State fellow.

[GIMMFD]

It's about 70 miles. Regardless, Marshall fans care a lot more about WVU than anywhere else. Distance isn't everything. It sounds like they might have a historic rivalry with Morehead State at a lower intensity.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Correct, hell they care more about Ohio U than they do Morehead State. I wouldn't say it's much of a rivalry at all. As long as the guys are ready to go, and Marshall doesn't shoot lights out, I fully expect us to take care of business, bet on the game with some Marshall friends, hoping we cover tonight.

[Muskeagle]

Don't we owe them a loss, so bad, that they might consider dropping the men's basketball program altogether?

[X-band '01]

After seeing the poll at the top, I'm disappointed that the University President and Bobby Bowden weren't options you could vote for.

[GIMMFD]

After seeing the poll at the top, I'm disappointed that the University President and Bobby Bowden weren't options you could vote for.

Damn WVU running Bobby Bowden out of town and him killing the game at Florida State. *Sigh*

[Masterofreality]

Per Hyperbole Addicted Jon Rothstein:

“Best big man in America no one is talking about may be Marshall's Ajdin Penava. Had 33, 19, and nine blocks against Ohio on Sat. Is this a video game??????”

[Masterofreality]

Also from Hyperbole Rothstein:
“Scary game for Xavier tonight against Marshall. Thundering Herd have nation's third top scorer in Jon Elmore (24.2) and nation's top shot blocker in Ajdin Penava (4.6).”

[GoMuskies]

Also from Hyperbole Rothstein:
“Scary game for Xavier tonight against Marshall. Thundering Herd have nation's third top scorer in Jon Elmore (24.2) and nation's top shot blocker in Ajdin Penava (4.6).”

And they've got a coach whose brother is a really good coach!!!! We're screwed.

[Masterofreality]

And they've got a coach whose brother is a really good coach!!!! We're screwed.

RIGHT!

We have issues against a team who lost to a team we beat by 52 and also lost to Bill & Mary. They're 144 in RPI.

HORRORS!!!!!

[drudy23]

Also from Hyperbole Rothstein:
“Scary game for Xavier tonight against Marshall. Thundering Herd have nation's third top scorer in Jon Elmore (24.2) and nation's top shot blocker in Ajdin Penava (4.6).”

And a defensive efficiency rating of 3 million.

93-73

[American X]

After seeing the poll at the top, I'm disappointed that the University President and Bobby Bowden weren't options you could vote for.

Only X-Band would vote for Bobby Bowden when The Waitress and Betty Draper are options.

[Grizzx12]

Jeez, our bigs are making Marshall look like a high school team. Almost seems unfair

[GoMuskies]

This beats the hell out of what happened on Saturday!

[paulxu]

Sometimes we just seem to zone out...and start playing so sloppy that I know we would be killed by a better team.

Confusing, and stressing to me.

[bleedXblue]

Scruggs must have 3 missed bunnies

[bleedXblue]

where the hell is O'Mara in the 2nd half? Why aren't we getting him the ball?

[X Factor]

Is anyone even trying to play defense for Xavier? How about fighting through screens? Show some damn pride on the defensive end!

[Grizzx12]

Is anyone even trying to play defense for Xavier? How about fighting through screens? Show some damn pride on the defensive end!

Seriously, unbelievable nobody is even closing out on these shots

[X Factor]

Sometimes we just seem to zone out...and start playing so sloppy that I know we would be killed by a better team.

Confusing, and stressing to me.

Yeah, this team just stops playing hard, stops playing smart for extended periods. So frustrating.

[Xville]

This team plays way too lackadaisical at times on both ends of the floor. I'm hoping that it's just because they are a little bored playing inferior competition which is human nature and hard to fight.

[X Factor]

It'd be nice if Goodin could actually make an open three. He also looks like he has no desire on the defensive end tonight.

[Lloyd Braun]

It'd be nice if Goodin could actually make an open three. He also looks like he has no desire on the defensive end tonight.

He has 3 fouls and he was probably told not to foul out since they have nobody left on the bench.

[X Factor]

He has 3 fouls and he was probably told not to foul out since they have nobody left on the bench.

So stop playing defense? He's had some non-existent closeouts on a few plays in the second half.

[paulxu]

One of these days, our sloppy play will catch up to us, and we'll lose to a team like this.

We have 17 TO's to 15 Assists. 17, and most that I have seen have been sloppy passes.

[mistabeecee41]

Tres gotta get his head out of his ass. Game winner aside, he’s been god awful against below avg competition

[Steve A]

It's always really easy to keep on the "next man up" mantra, but eventually you can only do so much. Right now, this team is missing three of its best players. That is going to make a difference.

[X Factor]

I've said this more than once, but is it too much to ask of a starting PG on a Top 10 team to be able to shoot 30% from three? 25%?

[X Factor]

This second half has been atrocious. I don't care being down 3 guys. The guys who have played have stunk it up and mailed it in.

We will get absolutely smoked Friday if we play anywhere near this bad and lazy.

[Lloyd Braun]

I've said this more than once, but is it too much to ask of a starting PG on a Top 10 team to be able to shoot 30% from three? 25%?

Q has been really good... are you this negative in every aspect of life? Damn dude

[X Factor]

Q has been really good... are you this negative in every aspect of life? Damn dude

I'm talking about his shooting. You want to answer the question? I know he's never going to be a 40% shooter from three, but he's 1-13 from three on the year. He's the PG, personally, he doesn't seem like a leader on the court. Doesn't mean I don't like him. I like every kid who wears a Xavier uniform.

We would be worse off without him, but I think we could be even better if he could make an open shot.

[X Factor]

Outscored by 16 by a terrible Marshall team in the second half. Doesn't matter we were without JP, Gates, and Naji. That second half was abysmal.

[Lloyd Braun]

He took too many threes today. He should not really be shooting them. He doesn’t need to. Just because he is a PG doesn’t mean he needs to be a 3pt shooter. Not having Gates and Macura out there allowed Marshall to sag off Q and double Sean.

Tre was not good. Q is the least of the problems.

[bleedXblue]

Outscored by 16 by a terrible Marshall team in the second half. Doesn't matter we were without JP, Gates, and Naji. That second half was abysmal.

I think that's being pretty tough. 3 of your top 7 guys out of the game? No bench really. Down to a 6 player rotation with 2 frosh in there? Yeah, didnt play well, but for good reason

[X Factor]

I think that's being pretty tough. 3 of your top 7 guys out of the game? No bench really. Down to a 6 player rotation with 2 frosh in there? Yeah, didnt play well, but for good reason

Maybe I am being too tough, but coming off a really bad game against ETSU, this team is definitely not playing well right now. We will get killed Friday if we don't play a lot better.

[bleedXblue]

Maybe I am being too tough, but coming off a really bad game against ETSU, this team is definitely not playing well right now. We will get killed Friday if we don't play a lot better.

Step off the ledge. Agreed but almost every team goes through rough patches. We're banged up right now. Need to get healthy.

On the bright side, another really good game for Kanter. O' Mara played really well in the first half too.

[xu82]

Well, some young guys learned how much they have to learn. Good minutes to learn from. Get the W and get out. Hopefully we get healthy and don’t have to count on 27 from Tre every game.

[Steve A]

Maybe I am being too tough, but coming off a really bad game against ETSU, this team is definitely not playing well right now. We will get killed Friday if we don't play a lot better.

Yes, yes you are. This happens to a lot of teams. Gonzaga needed overtime to beat North Dakota. Kansas barely survived Nebraska.

The reality is this team without Macura, Gates, and Marshall isn't THAT good right now. If they even have 1 of those three guys they're fine, as evidenced tonight. When Naji was playing, they were up big. He got hurt and everything turned.

[GoMuskies]

I'm pleased to have missed that game.

[RoseyMuskie]

Not worried about the game. Down three of our best players, against an uptempo team, which was vulnerable against the jumper. Lack of depth hurt.

Let’s get healthy (2/3 back for Friday), take down UNI, and get to Christmas.

[JTG]

Outscored by 16 by a terrible Marshall team in the second half. Doesn't matter we were without JP, Gates, and Naji. That second half was abysmal.

Sorry but that's bullshit. No team is going to look good missing their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players. Marshall and Macura are both big on defense. Plus they both are fluid scorers, as is Gates.

[Section 200]

Not worried about the game. Down three of our best players, against an uptempo team, which was vulnerable against the jumper. Lack of depth hurt.

Let’s get healthy (2/3 back for Friday), take down UNI, and get to Christmas.

UNI would be a great resume win. Do we know if JP & Kaiser are back for the game?

[drudy23]

Gates and Macura both warmed up and were joking around the whole time. It was obvious if it was up to them, they would have played. My guess is the concussion protocol was the reason they were out, and it was out of their or the coaches hands.

If they don't play Friday, I'll be shocked.

We're fine...we're likely going to have some missteps in league play. It's a long season and every road game is going to be a tough, physical war that's going to wear on guys, especially the younger guys. Peak in March.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

I hope the injuries are not serious and we’ll be in full strength for the Friday game. Tonight’s game shows how the players need each other for optimal performance.

[XU 87]

Outscored by 16 by a terrible Marshall team in the second half. Doesn't matter we were without JP, Gates, and Naji.

It didn't matter that 3 of the top 7 players were sitting on the bench with injuries? You post a lot of stupid stuff.

[X Factor]

It didn't matter that 3 of the top 7 players were sitting on the bench with injuries? You post a lot of stupid stuff.

So what changed from the first half when X was up 20 points (23 at one point) to the second half when X was outscored by 16? Naji Marshall not playing? That was the only change from the first to second half.

Whatever, hope JP, Kaiser, and Naji get healthy fast. Big East play is right around the corner and X starts off on the road at Marquette. Need to be healthy and regain the three point shooting touch that has abandoned them for the past couple of games.

[drudy23]

So what changed from the first half when X was up 20 points (23 at one point) to the second half when X was outscored by 16? Naji Marshall not playing? That was the only change from the first to second half.

.

It was 20 minutes of basketball and they had a 20 point cushion. Guys played more minutes than they normally would. There's a reason Harden and Scruggs don't play that much. Tre was cold. There were no shooters on the floor but Kanter and his looks were limited. Did you watch the game? It was never really in doubt.

[XU 87]

So what changed from the first half when X was up 20 points (23 at one point) to the second half when X was outscored by 16? Naji Marshall not playing? That was the only change from the first to second half.



You're basically arguing that it's not important for a team to have their best players out on the court. "If you're a good team, just throw anyone out there and you should win by 30."


By the way, Naji not playing was big. Instead of Naji, Harden played about 15 minutes in the second half, and scored no points.

[X Factor]

It was 20 minutes of basketball and they had a 20 point cushion. Guys played more minutes than they normally would. There's a reason Harden and Scruggs don't play that much. Tre was cold. There were no shooters on the floor but Kanter and his looks were limited. Did you watch the game? It was never really in doubt.

Yeah I watched it. I know it was never really in doubt. I was super pumped Xavier dominated Marshall in the first half, and then to come out and let Marshall dominate them in the second half was disappointing. I know we were without three guys in the second half too. Just seemed like we kind of got lazy in the second half. Every team is going to have off nights shooting, but defense is usually about effort and desire, and it looked like X wasn't that interested in executing in the second half. That's my only complaint.

[X Factor]

You're basically arguing that it's not important for a team to have their best players out on the court. "If you're a good team, just throw anyone out there and you should win by 30."

Stupid stuff.

By the way, Naji not playing was big. Instead of Naji, Harden played about 15 minutes in the second half, and scored no points.

Not what I'm saying. Harden was disappointing tonight though. Didn't take advantage of his opportunity.

Obviously X is a completely different team w/o JP, Kaiser, and Naji. A win is a win. Always better than a loss. Win Friday, will be very tough though, and then move on to conference play.

[XU 87]

Not what I'm saying.

You're the one who said it "doesn't matter that Naji, Macura and Gates didn't play in the second half" (or the first half for two of them). Do you think if Naji played 15 minutes in the second half he would have had no points and one turnover, which is what Harden did in the second half?

You should think a little before you post and complain about something.

[SemajParlor]

Weird game with weird circumstances against a weird team. Throw it in the garbage. Next up Northern Iowa

[bjf123]

where the hell is O'Mara in the 2nd half? Why aren't we getting him the ball?

In the post game radio show, Mack said their D was playing off Quentin and collapsing on O’Mara, so he was effectively double teamed much of the second half.


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[xu82]

In the post game radio show, Mack said their D was playing off Quentin and collapsing on O’Mara, so he was effectively double teamed much of the second half.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Love Q, but expect a lot of that until he develops a decent shot. It’s a real issue.

[OTRMUSKIE]

My goodness some of you are killing me. How did X look last year when we lost ed and trey? We struggled didn’t we? We lost 3 guys and we still dominating most of that game. We were up 15-20-13-16-17. Yeah we won by 4 but so what. We just won a game without 3 good players. That tells me that this team
Is going to be a very very very tough out.

[Emp]

My goodness some of you are killing me. How did X look last year when we lost ed and trey? We struggled didn’t we? We lost 3 guys and we still dominating most of that game. We were up 15-20-13-16-17. Yeah we won by 4 but so what. We just won a game without 3 good players. That tells me that this team
Is going to be a very very very tough out.

Agreed.

But it was disconcerting that we wilted under the press at the end. Mack's teams usually eat pressure for lunch. On the positive side, bigs that make free throws.

[xuinmd]

Really concerned about Scruggs and Hardin.

[bleedXblue]

Really concerned about Scruggs and Hardin.

More so with Harden........but come on, they are frosh. Scruggs has looked really good at times and really bad at times. He needs to finish better around the rim........I think he will get better and will be a keeper for sure.

[throwbackmuskie]

Hardin could have used a redshirt this season, the game is to quick for him at this point, but I believe he will develop over time.

[markchal]

I didn't expect much from Harden this year, but I thought he wouldn't look so lost against inferior competition. He'll be fine eventually. Scruggs is more of a concern IMO. He was one of our highest rated recruits ever, and doesn't look nearly as ready as I thought he'd be. We really need him to find some confidence, otherwise we have an 8-man rotation and any injury is gonna be brutal in BE play. The bigs have been a very pleasant surprise and Marshal has been great, but we're gonna need more from the bench.

[XUGRAD80]

Just goes to show that recruiting rankings mean next to nothing.

[Caf]

I didn't expect much from Harden this year, but I thought he wouldn't look so lost against inferior competition. He'll be fine eventually. Scruggs is more of a concern IMO. He was one of our highest rated recruits ever, and doesn't look nearly as ready as I thought he'd be. We really need him to find some confidence, otherwise we have an 8-man rotation and any injury is gonna be brutal in BE play. The bigs have been a very pleasant surprise and Marshal has been great, but we're gonna need more from the bench.

As was said before, it's obviously early to judge either one, but I think Scruggs passes the eye-test right now. He has moments where you can see he is the best athlete on the floor. I bet he'll be a completely different player by the end of the season.

The good news on Harden is that it really seems to be all in his head. I think he just needs to get a little confidence that he belongs out there and he'll take off.

[drudy23]

High level DI basketball is tough.

Harden has alot of people to pass up to get minutes. Whose minutes does he take? Answer: No ones

His most important development comes in practice and the off-season at this point. He will get his shot if he sticks with it.

[GIMMFD]

Agreed.

But it was disconcerting that we wilted under the press at the end. Mack's teams usually eat pressure for lunch. On the positive side, bigs that make free throws.

I also attribute that to WHO we had out, when you have experience like Macura and Gates out, it's a little tougher breaking the press, Macura is a good ball handler, and Gates holds his own as well. We were missing around ~30 points per game with all three out (deviate it closer to 20 since Naji played a half), it was expected to not be the cleanest of second halves. Not to mention Tre was 4-13 with only 10 points, not really the recipe for success. The most important thing is that we survived, our bigs have been a pleasant surprise, and we just gotta get these guys healthy. We'll be fine once everyone is back and at em full swing, remember guys, this is still the same team that spanked UC, beat Baylor handedly, a couple close games are to be expected.

[xuwin]

I didn't expect much from Harden this year, but I thought he wouldn't look so lost against inferior competition. He'll be fine eventually. Scruggs is more of a concern IMO. He was one of our highest rated recruits ever, and doesn't look nearly as ready as I thought he'd be. We really need him to find some confidence, otherwise we have an 8-man rotation and any injury is gonna be brutal in BE play. The bigs have been a very pleasant surprise and Marshal has been great, but we're gonna need more from the bench.

Don't you realize the bench was what saved us in this game? Bench=Omara, Kanter, Marshall, Scruggs, Harden. Not many teams have that kind of production off the bench.

[bleedXblue]

Just goes to show that recruiting rankings mean next to nothing.

not really...... for the top 50 or so players, they usually are pretty darn good. After that, yes

[boozehound]

Man, I'd hate to be around some of you guys if something really went wrong. This was our first game playing down 2 starters. Then one of our substitute starters went out at the half. We had a pretty darn good first half, but struggled without Marshall.

Scruggs is 1/3 of the way into his Freshman season. He will be OK. We were probably asking him to do too much last night, and he struggled.

Harden look lost out there, but he is also a true Freshman, and not nearly as 'college ready' as Marshall or Scruggs.

[UCGRAD4X]

Man, I'd hate to be around some of you guys if something really went wrong. This was our first game playing down 2 starters. Then one of our substitute starters went out at the half. We had a pretty darn good first half, but struggled without Marshall.

Scruggs is 1/3 of the way into his Freshman season. He will be OK. We were probably asking him to do too much last night, and he struggled.

Harden look lost out there, but he is also a true Freshman, and not nearly as 'college ready' as Marshall or Scruggs.

Having any incoming freshman D1 ready is a huge luxury Xavier has rarely had in the past (Larkin and DFW). But the past is the past. We're in the Big East now. The fact that our freshman even get playing time other than mop-up (much less, red-shirt) is a testament to the heightened expectations that we have for the players we (and by we I mean Mack and Co.) ask to be part of this great team. I'm not saying all should come to us and compete for starting minutes. And, as has been mentioned, recruiting is part finding the pieces that fit for your particular scheme and program/school, and part crap-shoot. Although Q has been praised and vilified, often in the same thread, he was able to fill in successfully as a back-up to Sumner, and eventually as the starter(and I would say, in some way, better than Ed). He may not have made the Freshman to Sophomore leap as some would have hoped, but he certainly is a serviceable if not capable point, and was as a Freshman! We have higher expectations, as we should.

Right now, a back-up at point is one of the pieces (IMHO) that we need most. Scruggs learning curve at this point (no pun intended, but I'll take it anyway) is concerning, and a bit disappointing. I certainly did not expect him to be able to take over day 1, but I did expect him to be a capable fill-in at PG by conference play.

Some are going to say, "That's too much to ask of a freshman."

I disagree.

I'm sorry, but Marshall should not be an anomaly.

As our swords are raised, so too should be our expectations!

(sorry for that last one)

[GIMMFD]

I'd argue Q has made a bit of a leap as a Sophomore to be honest. Look at how much smoother the offense runs with him, he's cut down turnovers, has a high assist, rate, finishes at the rim much better. Only knock is he hasn't found a shot yet, but even then I didn't expect him to be a 40% 3 point shooter after one year, he'll continue to improve, and I think he has improved a decent amount to this year.

[boozehound]

Having any incoming freshman D1 ready is a huge luxury Xavier has rarely had in the past (Larkin and DFW). But the past is the past. We're in the Big East now. The fact that our freshman even get playing time other than mop-up (much less, red-shirt) is a testament to the heightened expectations that we have for the players we (and by we I mean Mack and Co.) ask to be part of this great team. I'm not saying all should come to us and compete for starting minutes. And, as has been mentioned, recruiting is part finding the pieces that fit for your particular scheme and program/school, and part crap-shoot. Although Q has been praised and vilified, often in the same thread, he was able to fill in successfully as a back-up to Sumner, and eventually as the starter(and I would say, in some way, better than Ed). He may not have made the Freshman to Sophomore leap as some would have hoped, but he certainly is a serviceable if not capable point, and was as a Freshman! We have higher expectations, as we should.

Right now, a back-up at point is one of the pieces (IMHO) that we need most. Scruggs learning curve at this point (no pun intended, but I'll take it anyway) is concerning, and a bit disappointing. I certainly did not expect him to be able to take over day 1, but I did expect him to be a capable fill-in at PG by conference play.

Some are going to say, "That's too much to ask of a freshman."

I disagree.

I'm sorry, but Marshall should not be an anomaly.

As our swords are raised, so too should be our expectations!

(sorry for that last one)

We are 1/3 of the way into the season. It took Q a while to get up to speed as well, and he didn't really start playing well until a few games after Sumner went down and he was thrown into the fire. Then he started to develop.

Honestly I think the bigger win for us will be getting into a position in which we aren't relying on Freshman PG's for anything because we constantly have 2 PG's that are not true Freshman.

[GoMuskies]

Trae Young is a freshman, and he's the best player in the country. Why can't Scruggs be more like Trae Young?!?

Yes, I'm kidding.

[drudy23]

Trae Young is a freshman, and he's the best player in the country. Why can't Scruggs be more like Trae Young?!?

Yes, I'm kidding.

With that being said, how'd he end up at Oklahoma? Was he projected to be this good?

[GoMuskies]

With that being said, how'd he end up at Oklahoma? Was he projected to be this good?

He went to Norman North High School. And yes, he was a five-star blue-chipper.

[UCGRAD4X]

I'd argue Q has made a bit of a leap as a Sophomore to be honest. Look at how much smoother the offense runs with him, he's cut down turnovers, has a high assist, rate, finishes at the rim much better. Only knock is he hasn't found a shot yet, but even then I didn't expect him to be a 40% 3 point shooter after one year, he'll continue to improve, and I think he has improved a decent amount to this year.

I can't argue that he might be a bit more polished at the point. This might be as much as the players around him being more familiar with how he administers from the position and he with them, not to mention the general experience having been through the war being "the man." I think he was certainly much more capable as a back-up at this point in the season than Scruggs (I suspect this might be a less contentious argument than Q's general effectiveness - but I might be wrong) and he successfully traversed his "trial by fire" when Sumner went down. If Goodin went down tomorrow, God forbid, would anyone here expect Scruggs to take over as successfully?

Also, I am not as concerned that he has not "found his shot" as some might be. Sure, it would be a bonus and good for the team overall, but his ability to get to the rim - and there is plenty of argument about the 'finishing' part - is more important, especially if he successfully gets to and makes his chances at the foul line, and puts the opposing team in foul trouble.

I hesitate to point out that this is where Edmund got injured - which gets more to my first point.

[X Factor]

We are 1/3 of the way into the season. It took Q a while to get up to speed as well, and he didn't really start playing well until a few games after Sumner went down and he was thrown into the fire. Then he started to develop.

Honestly I think the bigger win for us will be getting into a position in which we aren't relying on Freshman PG's for anything because we constantly have 2 PG's that are not true Freshman.

Xavier fans seem to have a mentality where freshman aren't expected to come in and contribute right away. This isn't 1962 where freshman aren't eligible.

Look across the country; freshman are contributing everywhere. Just look at Arizona State. Freshman Romello White is their 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder at 14.8 pts and 8.7 rebounds. Where would they be if he wasn't ready to contribute? Another freshman, Remy Martin, is averaging 10 points a game, shooting 54% from the field and 40% from three. He was one of the main guys in their win on the road at Kansas. Yes, they're seniors are their workhorses, but without their freshman, they're not where they're at.

I don't think it's too much to expect for the the type of kids Xavier is recruiting to come in and contribute as freshman, and look like they belong.

The ideal situation is to have a balance between upperclassmen and freshman / sophmores. Freshman that can execute and deliver when called upon, not necessarily be relied upon to carry the load. We've had that recently too. Naji is definitely a freshman who came in ready to play. Scruggs is a little further behind, and Harden is a lot further behind - as in not ready.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

Xavier fans seem to have a mentality where freshman aren't expected to come in and contribute right away. This isn't 1962 where freshman aren't eligible.

Look across the country; freshman are contributing everywhere. Just look at Arizona State. Freshman Romello White is their 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder at 14.8 pts and 8.7 rebounds. Where would they be if he wasn't ready to contribute? Another freshman, Remy Martin, is averaging 10 points a game, shooting 54% from the field and 40% from three. He was one of the main guys in their win on the road at Kansas. Yes, they're seniors are their workhorses, but without their freshman, they're not where they're at.

I don't think it's too much to expect for the the type of kids Xavier is recruiting to come in and contribute as freshman, and look like they belong.

The ideal situation is to have a balance between upperclassmen and freshman / sophmores. Freshman that can execute and deliver when called upon, not necessarily be relied upon to carry the load. We've had that recently too. Naji is definitely a freshman who came in ready to play. Scruggs is a little further behind, and Harden is a lot further behind - as in not ready.

I can’t speak about Remy Martin but Romelo White is a junior. Guy has a red shirt year and came in old. Scruggs will be fine, you can see the talent.


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[bleedXblue]

Xavier fans seem to have a mentality where freshman aren't expected to come in and contribute right away. This isn't 1962 where freshman aren't eligible.

Look across the country; freshman are contributing everywhere. Just look at Arizona State. Freshman Romello White is their 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder at 14.8 pts and 8.7 rebounds. Where would they be if he wasn't ready to contribute? Another freshman, Remy Martin, is averaging 10 points a game, shooting 54% from the field and 40% from three. He was one of the main guys in their win on the road at Kansas. Yes, they're seniors are their workhorses, but without their freshman, they're not where they're at.

I don't think it's too much to expect for the the type of kids Xavier is recruiting to come in and contribute as freshman, and look like they belong.

The ideal situation is to have a balance between upperclassmen and freshman / sophmores. Freshman that can execute and deliver when called upon, not necessarily be relied upon to carry the load. We've had that recently too. Naji is definitely a freshman who came in ready to play. Scruggs is a little further behind, and Harden is a lot further behind - as in not ready.

Man you are tough.....

I can point to lots of X kids that have come in right away and contributed almost from Day 1. There are very,very few programs where your expectations for frosh can be sky high all the time. We aren't one of them. Get off your high horse.

[X Factor]

Man you are tough.....

I can point to lots of X kids that have come in right away and contributed almost from Day 1. There are very,very few programs where your expectations for frosh can be sky high all the time. We aren't one of them. Get off your high horse.

What are you talking about Bleed? High horse? I can name a lot of kids that came in and contributed right away for X too. That's my point. Xavier should, and I know Mack does, expect the kids he recruits to come in and contribute as freshman. Doesn't always work out that way, but that's what the staff expects. There are certain instances where they take a kid knowing he'll probably redshirt too. There's a lof of posters here, who reading their posts, think it's a luxury if a freshman scores 2 points in a game.

I don't have sky high expectations for freshman all the time. Scruggs was ranked in the Top 40 of nearly all the recruiting rankings. He's been a little disappointing to start the year. No big deal.

Regarding Romello White from ASU, he's a redshirt freshman, not a true freshman.

[Xavier]

I can’t speak about Remy Martin but Romelo White is a junior. Guy has a red shirt year and came in old. Scruggs will be fine, you can see the talent.


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“Just look how great this *Freshman is”

*Redshirt Junior.

[ArizonaXUGrad]

“Just look how great this *Freshman is”

*Redshirt Junior.

We have short memories of Reynolds and Davis. Both were the exact same situation. White looks good because he is a junior age wise. Martin is a whole other thing.


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[ArizonaXUGrad]

We have short memories of Reynolds and Davis. Both were the exact same situation. White looks good because he is a junior age wise. Martin is a whole other thing.


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Just looked Scruggs and Marshall are both 20 next year and really sophomore age. They should be decent.


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[X Factor]

“Just look how great this *Freshman is”

*Redshirt Junior.

He's a redshirt freshman.

[paulxu]

21st century Xavier basketball has apparently spoiled us.

[GoMuskies]

21st century Xavier basketball has apparently spoiled us.

I don't know. We'd have been pretty puzzled about almost losing to a shitty team at home back in the '90s, too.

[bleedXblue]

What are you talking about Bleed? High horse? I can name a lot of kids that came in and contributed right away for X too. That's my point. Xavier should, and I know Mack does, expect the kids he recruits to come in and contribute as freshman. Doesn't always work out that way, but that's what the staff expects. There are certain instances where they take a kid knowing he'll probably redshirt too. There's a lof of posters here, who reading their posts, think it's a luxury if a freshman scores 2 points in a game.

I don't have sky high expectations for freshman all the time. Scruggs was ranked in the Top 40 of nearly all the recruiting rankings. He's been a little disappointing to start the year. No big deal.

Regarding Romello White from ASU, he's a redshirt freshman, not a true freshman.

We aren't even into league play of their freshman season. Scruggs has looked very good and very bad at times. You expect him to be averaging 15 ppg ?

[XU 87]

I wonder if Scruggs is a little out of position playing point guard. Right now, he's a good but not great ball handler.

[X Factor]

I wonder if Scruggs is a little out of position playing point guard. Right now, he's a good but not great ball handler.

He might be, but he's not a great shooter either so he can't play off the ball a lot without being able to knock down a three pointer.

That's the part of his game that's been the biggest disappointment. His ball handling has been very suspect, and Mack, last night lost all faith in him to even bring the ball up court. I don't care about his scoring. We have other guys to score, but he needs to be able to bring the ball up the court and start the offense.

He's only 12 games into his college career, hopefully the game slows down for him as he gets into conference play.

[XUFan09]

I wonder if Scruggs is a little out of position playing point guard. Right now, he's a good but not great ball handler.Yeah. I think Scruggs looks pretty good as a freshman but bad as a freshman point guard. His personal scoring numbers are respectable, but his turnover rate is simply bad (and not completed with a high assist rate). And no, contrary to the assertion of others, he doesn't have to be a good shooter if he's playing off the ball.

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[GoMuskies]

And no, contrary to the assertion of others, he doesn't have to be a good shooter if he's playing off the ball.


If he's playing off the ball with Q also in the game? Not a great combo to have two guards who can't shoot in the game at the same time. Certainly helps the situation to have two forwards who can, though.

I'm personally opposed on principle to guards who can't shoot.

[markchal]

We aren't even into league play of their freshman season. Scruggs has looked very good and very bad at times. You expect him to be averaging 15 ppg ?

No, but I don't think it's outrageous to expect a top 40 recruit to be a dependable 8th/9th man. He's a lot closer to Harden than he is Marshal at this point, and we really need him to be a reliable role player.

[XUFan09]

If he's playing off the ball with Q also in the game? Not a great combo to have two guards who can't shoot in the game at the same time. Certainly helps the situation to have two forwards who can, though.

I'm personally opposed on principle to guards who can't shoot.Yeah, when you have at least two of Bluiett, Gates, Macura, and Kanter and maybe even three, you should be fine. Long-term, I hope he develops a reasonable shot, but it's not dire on this team.

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[XUFan09]

He's a lot closer to Harden than he is Marshal at this point

This is just false. There are legitimate critiques of Scruggs, especially as a point guard, but statements like this are foolish.

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[BandAid]

What’s the old saying...”a season is a lifetime”? Or was it: “what’s the best thing about freshman? They become sophomores”?

Scruggs has too much pride to flame out. Harden needs to keep his chin up. We’re going to need him sooner or later. Until the moment comes for both of them: get good grades, practice hard, and enjoy the rare opportunity presented to you.

[GIMMFD]

No, but I don't think it's outrageous to expect a top 40 recruit to be a dependable 8th/9th man. He's a lot closer to Harden than he is Marshal at this point, and we really need him to be a reliable role player.

I just don't think he's found his shot much like Q last season, they're pretty similar in regards of getting to the rim, and not being knock down shooters. I don't think he's closer to Harden than Naji, I just think Naji has hit the ground running a lot better than expected. Scruggs is still shooting about 42.9%, but that number will creep up when he's more confident and adjusted, and hopefully that 1.7 TO rate falls. The luxury of this is that we have a good amount of ball handlers on our team, and we're still a long way away before March. As long as he's a good back up by March, and can handle his role then, I'm pleased. He was ranked very highly, and I agree we should expect a lot out of him, but truth be told, we don't need it as much as in years past considering the depth we have. If this were next year, I'd be very worried, but for now, just keep learning, and keep improving.

[XUFan09]

When it comes to Scruggs' ballhandling and turnovers, I get being frustrated but I was wondering why people were so riled up over a freshman point guard turning the ball over. It's not a new phenomenon. As freshman, Dee Davis and Tu Holloway both had TO rates of 29% (Scruggs is at 30% mid-season). That's one of the best game managers in recent Xavier history and one of the best players, period, in all of Xavier history. Goodin last year was a little better at 26.5% when the season ended; that's still a bad mark, though. The only recent point guards who didn't have bad TO rates as freshmen were Semaj Christon and Edmond Sumner. Besides both being good enough to get picked up by NBA, both also got help as freshmen. Semaj didn't really play much point guard as a freshman because of Dee Davis, and Edmond had a lot of help from Myles Davis, who played more as a combo guard than a shooting guard.


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[GIMMFD]

When it comes to Scruggs' ballhandling and turnovers, I get being frustrated but I was wondering why people were so riled up over a freshman point guard turning the ball over. It's not a new phenomenon. As freshman, Dee Davis and Tu Holloway both had TO rates of 29% (Scruggs is at 30% mid-season). That's one of the best game managers in recent Xavier history and one of the best players, period, in all of Xavier history. Goodin last year was a little better at 26.5% when the season ended; that's still a bad mark, though. The only recent point guards who didn't have bad TO rates as freshmen were Semaj Christon and Edmond Sumner. Besides both being good enough to get picked up by NBA, both also got help as freshmen. Semaj didn't really play much point guard as a freshman because of Dee Davis, and Edmond had a lot of help from Myles Davis, who played more as a combo guard than a shooting guard.


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Agreed not new, but still pretty frustrating, because I feel like they just stick out a bit more because of how smooth our offense has looked at times. It's no fake fact that the offense runs smoother with Q, however that doesn't mean Scruggs will be terrible. I just think you notice a Scruggs turnover more, compared to Q, considering he plays more minutes and has a higher assist to TO ratio.

[XUFan09]

Agreed not new, but still pretty frustrating, because I feel like they just stick out a bit more because of how smooth our offense has looked at times. It's no fake fact that the offense runs smoother with Q, however that doesn't mean Scruggs will be terrible. I just think you notice a Scruggs turnover more, compared to Q, considering he plays more minutes and has a higher assist to TO ratio.Oh yeah, there's definitely a drop-off. That's more a testament to Q, of course. It wouldn't surprise me if the offensive efficiency with Scruggs and no Q was still decent but not top-10 good, even though Scruggs' personal offensive rating is bad.

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[UCGRAD4X]

I'm sure, at least I hope, Scruggs develops into a great PG....and the sooner the better.

But...

The problem that exists now, is what options do we have beyond Q? If Mack doesn't trust Scruggs (as has been suggested), it is a HUGE problem.

We're looking at Conference play after tomorrow's game.

[GIMMFD]

I'm sure, at least I hope, Scruggs develops into a great PG....and the sooner the better.

But...

The problem that exists now, is what options do we have beyond Q? If Mack doesn't trust Scruggs (as has been suggested), it is a HUGE problem.

We're looking at Conference play after tomorrow's game.

Though I 100% agree, I just look at it like the Sumner/Q situation, if it were to happen, it's next man up, and we'll deal with some growing pains, but as long as it's sorted out by March, and he grows through the fire, we'll still be fine.

[drudy23]

Don't even get me started on Mo McAfee.