Rankings 2017-18

[bleedXblue]

You gotta give it up to Cronin. His team's KenPom is in the top 10 and he has the poll voters fooled too. All those idiots do is look a the your record without really doing much more than that.......

[GoMuskies]

You gotta give it up to Cronin. His team's KenPom is in the top 10 and he has the poll voters fooled too. All those idiots do is look a the your record without really doing much more than that.......

Well, that's not what KenPom does. UC would be favored over Xavier on a neutral floor if they played tomorrow.

[Xuperman]

And X would crush them again!!

[GoMuskies]

And X would crush them again!!

It would be an excellent money-making opportunity for sure!

[ArizonaXUGrad]

College ball is all about the matchup. We have matchup issues for UC just like ASU gave us matchup problems. UC is rated high by winning in a crappy conference.


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[XUFan09]

College ball is all about the matchup. We have matchup issues for UC just like ASU gave us matchup problems. UC is rated high by winning in a crappy conference.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, matchup issues are big. Plus, Kenpom likely overrates UC and underrates X.

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[GoMuskies]

Kenpom likely overrates UC and underrates X.


Unlikely. Unless you also find Sagarin unreliable.

Actually, after looking again, I see that Sagarin has Xavier and UC closer than KenPom does. I generally prefer Sagarin to KenPom, and I think he's probably closer to the mark rating UC 1.5 points higher than Xavier compared to KenPom and his 4+ point differential.

[drudy23]

I would venture to guess, on a neutral floor, a XU - UC matchup is very close.

[Lloyd Braun]

Kenpom has UC as 3pt fav on neutral.

[GoMuskies]

Kenpom has UC as 3pt fav on neutral.

I see 24.98 to 20.50. Am I doing KenPom wrong?

[XUFan09]

Unlikely. Unless you also find Sagarin unreliable.

Actually, after looking again, I see that Sagarin has Xavier and UC closer than KenPom does. I generally prefer Sagarin to KenPom, and I think he's probably closer to the mark rating UC 1.5 points higher than Xavier compared to KenPom and his 4+ point differential.Both Kenpom and Sagarin follow the principles of margin of victory as a predictor of success. That's why they are frequently so similar in their rankings. UC and X's respective styles and approach to expanding leads will create discrepancies, though. Also, in close-game scenarios, having someone like Bluiett is significant and having Macura too along with a point guard who makes his free throws is just icing on the cake. Jacob Evans is the only guy for UC who comes close to that.

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[GoMuskies]

Well, you can't have a serious ranking without taking margin of victory into account, so I hardly see that as a flaw. A 20 point win is just better than a 2 point win. It just is. I'm pretty sure both limit the upside on that, though. For both, I'm fairly certain a 15 point win compared to a 5 point win is treated as significantly more different than a 40 point win vs. a 30 point win.

[X-band '01]

As unwatchable as UC at Central Florida is on paper, it's as close to a real challenge that UC will have in the American until Houston and Wichita State come calling.

[GoMuskies]

UCF is hanging around Wisconsin/St. John's territory in KenPom and Sagarin. They're clearly not a great team, but that's not an easy out on the road.

[XUFan09]

Well, you can't have a serious ranking without taking margin of victory into account, so I hardly see that as a flaw. A 20 point win is just better than a 2 point win. It just is. I'm pretty sure both limit the upside on that, though. For both, I'm fairly certain a 15 point win compared to a 5 point win is treated as significantly more different than a 40 point win vs. a 30 point win.You don't need to argue in favor of margin of victory to me. It's a really good predictor, but it's best to use rankings based on it with knowledge of its limitations. For example, Cincinnati's defensive-minded game means that when they lose, they usually keep the score respectable, even if the actual game is not (outside a few Shootouts, of course). Essentially, they don't score enough to catch up but they hold their opponent back from breaking the game open. So, they don't really suffer serious drops for their bad games. When Xavier is losing, though, they start to take a lot of risks and can make things worse. This will affect rankings.

Also, UC is simply better at beating up bad teams than Xavier is, at least with current personnel. That's in many ways a difference of mentality. However, if we were talking about matchups between good teams instead, that isn't as important (though the ability to run up the score on bad teams does still have some predictive power when facing good teams).

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[GoMuskies]

It's also possible that....UC has just objectively been a better team that Xavier overall so far this year.

[XUFan09]

It's also possible that....UC has just objectively been a better team that Xavier overall so far this year.Possible. I've always been willing to consider it, unlike many on this board who get huge chips on their shoulder over UC being listed higher in anything. I've made points already about how this UC team is actually pretty damn good. However, that doesn't really change anything I said. The circumstances I have mentioned DO affect rankings; UC is likely overrated and X is likely underrated. How much, though, is a matter of subjective debate.

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[paulxu]

I'm trying to figure out, how, objectively they are better...so far.
Admittedly I don't follow or understand all the KenPom/Sagarin stuff.

But we're 16-3, and they're 15-2.
Our SOS is 14...theirs is 148.
Our OOC SOS was 36...theirs was 226.

In our head to head, we won. Yes, our court, but by 13. It wasn't close.

Objectively it would seem we have the better team this year.

[XUFan09]

I mean, I think X is the better team, but I think UC is the more consistent team, both in terms of performance and statistics.

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[X-band '01]

Their best win was at UCLA - which is also something Colorado has managed to do this season. They've also beaten Mississippi State and SMU at home with somewhat notable wins in the Caymans against Buffalo and Wyoming.

Their schedule besides that leaves a lot to be desired.

[OTRMUSKIE]

X would be consistent too if they played UC joke of a schedule. UC is not good at all. They have a terrible coach too. UC is first weekend only. F UC. I don’t care if UC is ranked #1 and X is 0-17 UC will never be better then X.

[bleedXblue]

X would be consistent too if they played UC joke of a schedule. UC is not good at all. They have a terrible coach too. UC is first weekend only. F UC. I don’t care if UC is ranked #1 and X is 0-17 UC will never be better then X.

UC will never know how really good they are b/c they simply don't test themselves enough.

UC fans are too stupid to put pressure on the midget to change the scheduling philosophy. Its kind of funny in a way

[GIMMFD]

UC will never know how really good they are b/c they simply don't test themselves enough.

UC fans are too stupid to put pressure on the midget to change the scheduling philosophy. Its kind of funny in a way

This is the best team they've had in the Cronin era and still will most likely underperform in March due to not being tested. They completely deserve everything that happens. They're lucky they got Wichita State in conference otherwise it would be way worse.

[GoMuskies]

I think they scheduled appropriate challenges in the non-conference. They scheduled UCLA, Florida, Xavier and Mississippi State, which is a pretty solid group of non-conference foes. Their problem is what they've done with their buy games. They should be scheduling teams ranked #175, not teams ranked #325. Either way, they should get an easy win. But one kills the schedule, and the other does not.

[Lloyd Braun]

I see 24.98 to 20.50. Am I doing KenPom wrong?

Kind of... this (http://thebasketballdistribution.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-to-predict-final-score.html?m=1) is the best article I could find as to how kenpom predicts a score. Mostly because tempo plays a role in score and UC plays slower pace than we do...

Once all that is plugged in you get 74-71 in favor of UC.

[Lloyd Braun]

I think they scheduled appropriate challenges in the non-conference. They scheduled UCLA, Florida, Xavier and Mississippi State, which is a pretty solid group of non-conference foes. Their problem is what they've done with their buy games. They should be scheduling teams ranked #175, not teams ranked #325. Either way, they should get an easy win. But one kills the schedule, and the other does not.

Exactly this.. maybe we are spoiled by Mario but their buy games are laughable. There is no reason for Arkansas Pine Bluff, Coppin St., etc... That’s why their RPI (fwiw) is 36 or whatever it is.

[Juice]

Exactly this.. maybe we are spoiled by Mario but their buy games are laughable. There is no reason for Arkansas Pine Bluff, Coppin St., etc... That’s why their RPI (fwiw) is 36 or whatever it is.

My understanding is they have to do those buy games because they cost less compared to the better buy games we have, and since their athletic department is in the red because of football, they therefore have to cut costs where they can.

[XUFan09]

My understanding is they have to do those buy games because they cost less compared to the better buy games we have, and since their athletic department is in the red because of football, they therefore have to cut costs where they can.And it could be they have 6 buy games to Xavier's 5 to get more money from buy games too. Not sure about that part.

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[Lloyd Braun]

The difference in buy game price is not much. At most $50k for the absolutely best vs absolutely worst buy game opponent. I’m sure that adds up but to say they can’t schedule a better opponent because of football is a bit of a stretch. They may be stingy in this department for spending but they have the ability to schedule better opponents than the bottom of the barrel. Some of it is predicting who will be competitive in their respective conference.

[X-band '01]

Interesting read here from Graham Couch who has come under fire in recent weeks:

Lansing State-Journal (http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/sports/columnists/graham-couch/2018/01/15/ap-basketball-ballot-rankings-poll-graham-couch-explanation/1033319001/)

Definitely throwing a bone to our fanbase this week.

[GoMuskies]

Here's a guy who's going to see the wrath of Poll Attacks this week:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2018/01/elton_alexanders_ap_top_25_col_6.html

Wichita State #10 and Xavier #11?!? WTF?!?

[outsideobserver11]

My understanding is they have to do those buy games because they cost less compared to the better buy games we have, and since their athletic department is in the red because of football, they therefore have to cut costs where they can.

It was explained to UC folk that the buy games are what they are this year (as in exceptionally bad, even for UC) due to the arena issue. All NKU events get first rights as they should, and UC had to piece together home games around that. They pretty much had to take whatever teams were available.

Now that excuse will at least get them through this year, better start brainstorming for next year though.

[GoMuskies]

#8 in the AP Poll. I like.

[xavierdude]

I think someone was saying Saturday evening or Sunday morning that if XU and UC are both in the top 10, it would be the first time ever that they were both in it at the same time.

[OTRMUSKIE]

UC is not a top 10 team. They will not make it to the second weekend. That simple.

[skyking]

8 and 8. Both polls.

[GoMuskies]

Literally tied with UC in the Coaches' Poll. That's certainly interesting!

[Xuperman]

UC is not a top 10 team. They will not make it to the second weekend. That simple.

They are simply WVU/VIRGINIA light.....in no way will be a factor after the AAC is over

[kellernr]

It was explained to UC folk that the buy games are what they are this year (as in exceptionally bad, even for UC) due to the arena issue. All NKU events get first rights as they should, and UC had to piece together home games around that. They pretty much had to take whatever teams were available.

Now that excuse will at least get them through this year, better start brainstorming for next year though.They have a good home slate next year with X, UCLA and tOSU coming to town.

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[X-band '01]

They also go to Mississippi State to finish that home-and-home.

But frankly their buy games have been bad even when they were at Fifth Third Arena. No program worth its salt outside of UC is going to publicly admit that they're cheap with buy games and therefore play crap teams. Hell, just be ultra cheap and throw in a non-DI game if money is all that matters.

[xukeith]

UC is not a top 10 team. They will not make it to the second weekend. That simple.

Joke.
175 teams have played harder non conference schedules vs. UC.
5 have better SOS than X.

of UC's quality games: loss to X, loss to Florida, win at UCLA.
Beating tons of cupcakes does not equal a top 25 ranking. Silly pollsters.

[GoMuskies]

The computer composite puts UC #10 (Xavier #9). They check out. They're legit. That's just a massive non-conference win for Xavier.

[kellernr]

The computer composite puts UC #10 (Xavier #9). They check out. They're legit. That's just a massive non-conference win for Xavier.They will be exposed when they go out first round to a 12 seed.

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[paulxu]

Wichita State #10 and Xavier #11?!? WTF?!?

Cleveland.

(another edition of simple answers to simple questions)

[GIMMFD]

Joke.
175 teams have played harder non conference schedules vs. UC.
5 have better SOS than X.

of UC's quality games: loss to X, loss to Florida, win at UCLA.
Beating tons of cupcakes does not equal a top 25 ranking. Silly pollsters.

Most of the people filling out polls are clueless and just choose a trendy name, nobody watches enough games to truly pick the best 25 to be honest. This is just good for marketing, and branding.

[Masterofreality]

Cleveland.

(another edition of simple answers to simple questions)

I guess you're trying to suck me in.

Elton Alexander is actually usually right up with the game. Unlike Andy Katz, who didn't move Xavier off of his #11 and moved SucKS up to NUMBER FOUR after their huge home win vs East Carolina, Elton had X ahead of the BoreCats and he's fairly consistent. He also has been very pro- X in the past. He has his opinion, but it is very well-reasoned on balance.

[bobbiemcgee]

Poll attacks are pretty silly. No? I thought they play a tournament to ultimately decide them.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Whether they are legit or not...OSU at 13? I thought the Holtmann hire was a great one. Didn't see such a quick turn around. Damn impressive.

[paulxu]

Unlike Andy Katz, who didn't move Xavier off of his #11 and moved SucKS up to NUMBER FOUR after their huge home win vs East Carolina,

This is what really deserves the WTF.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Whether they are legit or not...OSU at 13? I thought the Holtmann hire was a great one. Didn't see such a quick turn around. Damn impressive.

Bucks gut out another one when they didn't play well. Holtmann bringing Big East style basketball to BIG. Was Matta that bad the last couple years? I find this quick turn around astonishing...

[stammina0721]

Most of the people filling out polls are clueless and just choose a trendy name, nobody watches enough games to truly pick the best 25 to be honest. This is just good for marketing, and branding.

Remember the old cbssports.com site with posting before they changed the format? There was a thread called The Peoples Poll where the 25 oldest posters picked their top 25 each week. It got so big that CBS started publishing it each week. I was lucky enough to be a pollster in that. To make a long story short I spent more time not only picking my top 25 each week but leaving a weekly comment about each team. That poll meant nothing in real life but I still took the responsibility seriously knowing thousands of people read it every week. It just amazes me how AP voters dont take the same care in making their weekly poll. Hell The Poll Attacks has run for 5 years now with new material each week and pollsters still don't care.

[mid major]

Bucks gut out another one when they didn't play well. Holtmann bringing Big East style basketball to BIG. Was Matta that bad the last couple years? I find this quick turn around astonishing...

Now now, Matta didn't leave the cup bare when he got some canned heat. They had recruits decommit but they had a very good team in terms of this year.

[chico]

Bucks gut out another one when they didn't play well. Holtmann bringing Big East style basketball to BIG. Was Matta that bad the last couple years? I find this quick turn around astonishing...

Saw them play Michigan State (Nationwide is one of the worst areas for basketball but that's another story). They play hard and are very disciplined. A lot of role players and true superstar in Bates-Diop. Each player knows his role and rarely seems to venture from it. They don't take bad shots - they're shooting something like 55% as a team. They're not too deep, though, only 9 scholarship players. Had walk-ons getting minutes in the first half.

They completely lucked into Holtman, though. Gene Smith falls up again.

[OTRMUSKIE]

How in the hell is UC ahead of X in the BPI and Kenpom? Our sos is a ton better, or sor is better our RPI is better and we destroyed them. Only thing they are better at is their inflated record which is just one loss better then x. I thought Kenpom was supposed to be a better predicator then the RPI? Well obviously their system is more f’ed up then the rest.

[XUFan09]

How in the hell is UC ahead of X in the BPI and Kenpom? Our sos is a ton better, or sor is better our RPI is better and we destroyed them. Only thing they are better at is their inflated record which is just one loss better then x. I thought Kenpom was supposed to be a better predicator then the RPI? Well obviously their system is more f’ed up then the rest.There are reasons why that have been covered ad nauseam on this board. Just check past posts with Kenpom in the title. Or, just check past posts in this very thread.

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[smileyy]

Banners on the Parkway has some good articles about rating systems and their strengths and weaknesses:

https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2018/1/22/16917578/some-rumination-on-ratings-systems-college-basketball-kenpom-rpi-selection-committee-march-madness

https://www.bannersontheparkway.com/2018/1/23/16923322/uc-rhode-island-and-why-there-is-no-perfect-rating-system-xavier-ncaa-tournament-basketball-big-east

[GoMuskies]

There are reasons why that have been covered ad nauseam on this board. Just check past posts with Kenpom in the title. Or, just check past posts in this very thread.

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The biggest reason is that UC is really good.

[XUFan09]

The biggest reason is that UC is really good.Yup. And X lives in their head space, leading to head-to-head dominance.

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[paulxu]

Yup. And X lives in their head space, leading to head-to-head dominance.

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They caught a really bad case of Macuraitis this year.

[OTRMUSKIE]

How do we know thy are good? The only good team thy played was X and they got destroyed. Whoever draws UC in the dance is going to be drooling bc UC isn’t going far. I base that on nothing but pure gut. They suck

[Xavier]

How do we know thy are good? The only good team thy played was X and they got destroyed. Whoever draws UC in the dance is going to be drooling bc UC isn’t going far. I base that on nothing but pure gut. They suck

They are 4-2 against quadrant 1 teams (Loss to us and Florida, wins against temple, buffalo, USF and UCLA)
We are 3-3.

Obviously, we will have more opportunities and who knows how committee will actually look at the quadrant system anyways (based off where you beat teams, etc). And I think our wins are better and UC lucked into playing the system well. (Since it’s brand new) but I am in the group that thinks they are pretty good. Top 20 for sure, id say around 15.

*This is just the quadrant system. I strongly believe our resume is better.

[GIMMFD]

How do we know thy are good? The only good team thy played was X and they got destroyed. Whoever draws UC in the dance is going to be drooling bc UC isn’t going far. I base that on nothing but pure gut. They suck

I mean they technically lost to Florida, who's underperformed, but beat UCLA who's also underperformed. Your point stands still, I thought this was supposed to be the best UC team in a while, and they haven't looked all that impressive. They play good defense, but man they look anemic on offense from time to time.

[Xuperman]

MU, @SJU, GU....the table is set for an unprecedented jump in the rankings! IF we can get these 3, it would take us through 2 MORE NEW POLLS.......21-3 on Monday 2/5, will look awful good and most likely garner a #3 or EVEN a.......NO, I dare not say! But you can bank on more movement in front of us in the next 12 days!!

[Xavier]

MU, @SJU, GU....the table is set for an unprecedented jump in the rankings! IF we can get these 3, it would take us through 2 MORE NEW POLLS.......21-3 on Monday 2/5, will look awful good and most likely garner a #3 or EVEN a.......NO, I dare not say! But you can bank on more movement in front of us in the next 12 days!!

The only way to get all the way to #1 is winning all the way through the Nova game in mid Feb. Don't count on it.

[Masterofreality]

I mean they technically lost to Florida, who's underperformed, but beat UCLA who's also underperformed. Your point stands still, I thought this was supposed to be the best UC team in a while, and they haven't looked all that impressive. They play good defense, but man they look anemic on offense from time to time.

*Shouts from the Rooftops*

"THE JAUNDICED LEPRECHAUN CANNOT COACH OFFENSE!!!!!!!" Never could never will.

It makes no difference what players he has. Cronin and His Overlord Thuggins have no decent offensive schematics. It's amazing when you look at a Xavier team and how they run their stuff out of timeouts and what SucKS does. It's major college vs 8th grade CYO.

[kellernr]

The only way to get all the way to #1 is winning all the way through the Nova game in mid Feb. Don't count on it.We always play nova tough as hell at home and shit the bed at their place. Would be cool to have nova and X be 1 and 2 when they play each other. I think we can get them at home.

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[atljar]

We always play nova tough as hell at home and shit the bed at their place. Would be cool to have nova and X be 1 and 2 when they play each other. I think we can get them at home.

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A couple years ago they were 1 and we were 5? I forget exactly, but that is the LOUDEST I have ever seen the 'tas. It was rocking.


It was also my girlfriends first ever XU game in person. She got hella lucky but has been disappointed in the crowd ever since. LOL.

[GIMMFD]

*Shouts from the Rooftops*

"THE JAUNDICED LEPRECHAUN CANNOT COACH OFFENSE!!!!!!!" Never could never will.

It makes no difference what players he has. Cronin and His Overlord Thuggins have no decent offensive schematics. It's amazing when you look at a Xavier team and how they run their stuff out of timeouts and what SucKS does. It's major college vs 8th grade CYO.

Can't argue that, even as a WVU fan, it blows my mind watching possessions where they swing it around the top of the perimeter just for Jevon Carter to take a highly contested 3 at the last 10 seconds. Night and day contrast from how we run our offensive sets, appreciate he gets lesser talent to buy into the defensive aspect, but you're telling me you can't find one or two people that can shoot it at a decent clip, or can make plays? Insane. Cronin is by far a downgrade of Huggins though, and that's just simple facts. He has been completely unimpressive, and it blows my mind some people regard him as a good coach.

[UCGRAD4X]

A couple years ago they were 1 and we were 5? I forget exactly, but that is the LOUDEST I have ever seen the 'tas. It was rocking. It was also my girlfriends first ever XU game in person. She got hella lucky but has been disappointed in the crowd ever since. LOL.

But did you?

And has she been disappointed ever since?

[GoMuskies]

KenPom continues its racism against Xavier. #14 today.

Sagarin has us #10/#11 (predictor)

[paulxu]

RPI #2

KPI #6 (without last night's win)

[xu82]

But did you?

And has she been disappointed ever since?

I know, it sounds kinda sad. I don’t think I’d be bragging about that....

[flatspat]

*Shouts from the Rooftops*

"THE JAUNDICED LEPRECHAUN CANNOT COACH OFFENSE!!!!!!!" Never could never will.

It makes no difference what players he has. Cronin and His Overlord Thuggins have no decent offensive schematics. It's amazing when you look at a Xavier team and how they run their stuff out of timeouts and what SucKS does. It's major college vs 8th grade CYO.

Don't be so hard on 8th grade CYO

[atljar]

But did you?

And has she been disappointed ever since?


LOL.



Yes, and more than likely. ;)

[GIMMFD]

But did you?

And has she been disappointed ever since?


I spit up my water. Kudos to that.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier should be #5 come Monday, no?

[Xavier]

I’d guess 6, I don’t think they jump Duke (unless duke lost before Virginia?). Virginia will jump to #1.

[xumuskies08]

I sort of fear that not having a game this weekend could hurt the Muskies in the eyes of some voters. With that in mind I wouldn’t be shocked to see X only move to #7.


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[XUFan09]

I sort of fear that not having a game this weekend could hurt the Muskies in the eyes of some voters. With that in mind I wouldn’t be shocked to see X only move to #7.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI don't think not playing hurt X in the eyes of the voters. But, Michigan State managed to hold off Maryland, which is too bad. They'll stay ahead of X. Purdue is about to finish off Indiana, so they'll be ahead too. Duke isn't going to look bad losing to #2 Virginia (even if it's at home). Plus, they're Duke, the preseason #1, so voters are going to be hesitant to drop them much. Then, Kansas isn't going to look bad losing to the Oklahoma Trae Youngs on the road, especially after dispatching Texas A&M. X could likely just rise to #7 because of all of this. My prediction:

1a. Virginia
1b. Villanova
3. Purdue
4. Michigan State
5. Duke
6. Kansas
7. Xavier
8. Cincinnati
9. Arizona
10. Texas Tech

This week and last week have been really good for X in terms of teams behind or just ahead of them, though. WVU and UNC both lost their last two games, and WVU has lost three of their last four. Oklahoma has also lost three of its last four. Ohio State just lost to Penn State at home. Texas Tech and Wichita State won both of their games this week, but they lost both of their games last week. Arizona is the only team close behind X that has an undefeated two weeks, though they had a couple close calls. X has built some nice separation between it and the teams below it. Now they have the easiest week of the conference slate coming up, so it would be really nice if they didn't screw it up.

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[GoMuskies]

Kansas lost this week. Xavier will be ranked ahead of Kansas this week.

[XUFan09]

Kansas lost this week. Xavier will be ranked ahead of Kansas this week.I believe that should be true. But, the media has a lovefest with Trae Young, so I wonder how much that will factor in to the voting.

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[GoMuskies]

They should. Trae Young is amazing. But we'll still be ahead of KU.

[XUFan09]

They should. Trae Young is amazing. But we'll still be ahead of KU.As long as the media recognizes that Trae Young might be amazing, but Kansas losing to Oklahoma is not some illustrious feat because of that. It's only 300-vote disparity, so I could see X passing them. That's the only team I could see them catching, though.

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[bleedXblue]

We will jump 2 or 3 spots

Nova stays #1

[Michigan Muskie]

#6 in the AP Poll. (https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll)

[Xtemporaneous]

The FACT that Duke didn't move after losing at home infuriates me. If XU lost at home to 'Nova they'd be dropped into the teens.

Total BS.

[X-band '01]

Drop them if favor of whom? Kansas also went 1-1 last week with a loss at Oklahoma and a home win against Texas A&M.

Michigan State also won a pair of games against Wisconsin and Maryland. They have the quantity but not enough quality to really overtake Duke.

Had Duke beaten Virginia, it's more likely those two teams may have just traded places in the polls. Virginia got 17 first-place votes as it was (about 25% of the pollsters), so the consensus for now seems to be that Villanova won't surrender the #1 spot unless they lose.

[X-band '01]

Name the Voter (http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13)

#6 - Texas Tech
#9 - Michigan
#11 - Xavier
#16 - Kansas State

I won't get into all the extremes, but said voter has 6 teams that are +/- 5 spots from their actual ranking this week.

[xumuskies08]

I'll take 6th.

We need to talk about Graham Couch (again).

He's got Michigan ranked 9th in his poll this week...2 spots above where he has X. Michigan is actually ranked 24th this week. They are also 24th in kenpom, are 5-6 vs kenpom top 100, and 1-4 vs the AP top 25. Meanwhile, X is 12th in kenpom, 10-3 vs kenpom top 100, and are 4-1 vs the AP top 25.

I'm just not sure how you can look at those 2 teams and rank Michigan above X. It's annoying that Couch has undervalued the Muskies literally all year, but it would at least be defensible as long as he didn't blatantly overrate random-ass teams like Michigan.

[xumuskies08]

Name the Voter (http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13)

#6 - Texas Tech
#9 - Michigan
#11 - Xavier
#16 - Kansas State

I won't get into all the extremes, but said voter has 6 teams that are +/- 5 spots from their actual ranking this week.

Haha, I think I spilled your beans. He's just the worst. Nothing short of "extreme" simply for the sake of being extreme.

[bleedXblue]

We will jump 2 or 3 spots

Nova stays #1

exactly as I predicted......Toot

[skyking]

Also #6 in the USA Today coaches poll.

[Emp]

Name the Voter (http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13)

#6 - Texas Tech
#9 - Michigan
#11 - Xavier
#16 - Kansas State

I won't get into all the extremes, but said voter has 6 teams that are +/- 5 spots from their actual ranking this week.

Just round up the Neg Rep Posse and bomb him back to the Stone Age.

[xumuskies08]

I'll take 6th.

We need to talk about Graham Couch (again).

He's got Michigan ranked 9th in his poll this week...2 spots above where he has X. Michigan is actually ranked 24th this week. They are also 24th in kenpom, are 5-6 vs kenpom top 100, and 1-4 vs the AP top 25. Meanwhile, X is 12th in kenpom, 10-3 vs kenpom top 100, and are 4-1 vs the AP top 25.

I'm just not sure how you can look at those 2 teams and rank Michigan above X. It's annoying that Couch has undervalued the Muskies literally all year, but it would at least be defensible as long as he didn't blatantly overrate random-ass teams like Michigan.

Literally his reasoning is “Michigan's narrow loss at Purdue was a better result than any team's best win last week - other than Virginia at Duke.”

So losing a close game is better than winning? This is news to me.

[X-band '01]

Is he also aware that Michigan lost by 20 points at Nebraska? Even our resident Tim Miles apologist can't believe Michigan would be that high.

[Lamont Sanford]

Just round up the Neg Rep Posse and bomb him back to the Stone Age.

Finally you say something that I agree with.

President Trump would be so proud of you!

[Masterofreality]

Name the Voter (http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13)

#6 - Texas Tech
#9 - Michigan
#11 - Xavier
#16 - Kansas State

I won't get into all the extremes, but said voter has 6 teams that are +/- 5 spots from their actual ranking this week.

The guy whose last name I sleep on almost every night.

[94GRAD]

The guy whose last name I sleep on almost every night.

His last name is DogHouse? :lmao::lmao::pointandlaugh::pointandlaugh:

[XUFan09]

Is he also aware that Michigan lost by 20 points at Nebraska? Even our resident Tim Miles apologist can't believe Michigan would be that high.And they barely beat Maryland at home and put up a meh performance against Rutgers. I get that a close loss on the road to one of the top teams is actually a good performance, but it's not #9-in-the-country good next to their other recent performances.

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[Xtemporaneous]

Graham's poll is the BIGGEST piece of garbage there is: http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13

Idiot.

[muskiefan82]

Graham's poll is the BIGGEST piece of garbage there is: http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/graham-couch/2017/week-13

Idiot.

Lansing State Journal. That's really all you need to see to get his picks.

[Xavier]

At this point I think he just does stuff like this because he likes the attention. He knows what he is doing.

[Xtemporaneous]

Graham trying to defend himself on Twitter now for his stupid-ass poll. Laughable. http://www.twitter.com/Graham_Couch

[xumuskies08]

I get rewarding teams for playing well. It's how polls are supposed to work. But you also have to punish them for...oh I don't know...losing by 20 to Nebraska.

Couch had Michigan ranked #12 on Jan 15th. Since then the Wolverines have gone 2-2 and he has moved them up 3 spots. I just don't get it.

[XUFan09]

Graham trying to defend himself on Twitter now for his stupid-ass poll. Laughable. http://www.twitter.com/Graham_CouchI actually like his approach, just disagree with conclusions like Michigan at 9. I also wonder if he thinks Marquette is a crummy team, considering he was replying to a Xavier fan.

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[Masterofreality]

His last name is DogHouse? ::lmao::pointandlaugh::pointandlaugh:

Just wait brother. You don't know what you're in for. :rolleyes:

[Emp]

Finally you say something that I agree with.

President Trump would be so proud of you!

Sarcasm italics missing from both posts?

[muskiefan82]

Back to #5 AP

[skyking]

Hope it is not a bar omen

[GoMuskies]

Hope it is not a bar omen

I like bar omens.

[GoMuskies]

Wichita State still somehow hanging in there at #22. Not sure why. I guesss that will give UC a chance to actually beat a ranked opponent if the Shockers don't shit the bed again this week. Kentucky can't quite find their way out of the poll (beating WV in Morgantown seemed more impressive a week ago).

[X-ceptional]

Say what you will about how advanced metrics, predictive stats, etc. etc. view this year's Xavier team, but how in the hell have I never heard of this site before today?

www.barttorvik.com (http://www.barttorvik.com/)

It seems to have a lot in common with kenpom, with one obvious exception that it is free. That being said, I still think it's worth 20 bucks to actually pay for kenpom and will continue to do so, but this site seems pretty interesting at first glance.

For instance, don't like our 16th place rating on the home page?

What about our 12th place rating (http://barttorvik.com/altrank.php?r=qrank&year=2018) on the Tourney Quality Games scale? Getting better...

He does an Elo rating too... we're 5th there (http://barttorvik.com/altrank.php?r=erank&year=2018).

In any event, I've only spent 10 minutes on it so far, and I'm just blown away that I've never even heard of this before. I don't know, maybe it's terrible, but it seems pretty good from what I've seen--particularly for something that is freely available.

Looks like the guy behind it is a redditor (warning: appears to be a Wisconsin fan), and had this (https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/7vg67c/question_about_kenpom_dont_upvote/dts6rf8/) to say about it


But as I've said before, people should pay Mr. Pomeroy. It's 20 fricken dollars. Per year. If I thought I was significantly cutting into his paycheck, I'd probably just stop.

To address one comment about the methodology, I feel like I've been pretty open about it, though some of that is buried in old blog posts years ago when only my mom was paying attention. Certainly willing to answer any questions. (I actually offered to donate the code to the NCAA when they were talking about coming up with their own power rating, but they politely declined.) Here are the basics:

The adjusted efficiencies are fairly trivial to calculate, and I just used public domain information to crack that nut. They are fundamentally the same as Kenpom 2.0 (before he went to efficiency margins instead of log5 / pythag before last season).

There's a home court advantage that is the same as Kenpom used to be (+/- 1.4% to offense and defense), although I don't mess around with "semi-home."

There's a recency bias—all games in the last 40 days count 100%, then degrade 1% per day until they're 80 days old, after which all games count 60%.

Then there's an adjustment that discounts blowouts in mismatches--if the MOV is more than 10 points and the difference in "barthags" (my funny name for pythag) is above a threshold, the game starts gets discounting (more and more the greater the MOV and the greater the disparity in barthags).

There is also a preseason component that is phased out once a team has played 13 games (though since not all games count for 100% of a game, it typically sticks around for 15 or 16 games).

Honestly I think that is significantly more information than what is publicly available about Kenpom, though of course I don't hold that against him because (a) it is his livelihood and (b) he has disclosed plenty enough to allow certain copycat sites to be created.

[GoMuskies]

KenPom's racism against Xavier continues. X is #16 today.

Sagarin's algorithms are finally starting to see the light, though. #9 in those rankings (though still #12 in predictor).

[HenryMuto]

If Michigan State had lost to Purdue today I wonder if X would have moved ahead of both Nova and Virginia.

Well at worst will be #4 you know they are moving ahead of Purdue.

[kmcrawfo]

If Michigan State had lost to Purdue today I wonder if X would have moved ahead of both Nova and Virginia.

Well at worst will be #4 you know they are moving ahead of Purdue.

X should be #2.

I assume MSU will be #1

[OTRMUSKIE]

No X should be 1. Michigan state has a coach that works for a school that allowed girls to be molested. Plus their SOS is 70. X has a good argument as to why they should be #1. Is Izzo under fire for knowing anything about that doctor?

[letskeepitreal]

With the losses of the top 3, I think X will be number 2 on Monday after MSU. I think Nova will be #3, then UVA then Cincinnati if they take care of SMU.

[Lloyd Braun]

I think 3 or 4. Which is appropriate.

[Xuperman]

Look for C Holtmann and the Buckeyes to make a huge move

[JTG]

No X should be 1. Michigan state has a coach that works for a school that allowed girls to be molested. Plus their SOS is 70. X has a good argument as to why they should be #1. Is Izzo under fire for knowing anything about that doctor?

Izzo is a media favorite. They'll get the benefit of the doubt no matter

[OTRMUSKIE]

I think 3 or 4. Which is appropriate.

Lloyd either sell more computers or chew more of that Chinese gum because if your thinking x is a 3 or 4 you’re crazy. Honestly it wouldn’t shock me one bit but Xavier plays in the #2 conference and Mich St plays in the #6. If they make X a 4 I will be pissed. Hell a 3 will piss me off. Nothing short of a #2 and a few first place points is what I better see Monday.

[letskeepitreal]

No X should be 1. Michigan state has a coach that works for a school that allowed girls to be molested. Plus their SOS is 70. X has a good argument as to why they should be #1. Is Izzo under fire for knowing anything about that doctor?

And what does this have to do about how his team is playing? The whole Larry Nassar thing stinks and I think MSU will ultimately have to pay the price but is immaterial to college b-ball rankings.

[Steve A]

You have to think it's a possibility that X might get at least one first place vote this week. There were 11 voters that had X 4th last week behind three teams that all lost a game. Will any of them move X up to #1?

[OTRMUSKIE]

Sarcasm is not your strong suit. But you keep it real so I can see why you would think I was serious. Just playing with ya.

[OTRMUSKIE]

X has 7 tier 1 wins and MSU has 3. I know X won’t jump them but if voters actually did their homework they would see MSU is not #1. Not so sure X is either but I sure as hell hope we see it this year.

[bjf123]

FWIW, we’re up to # 2 in the RPI with a strength of schedule of 8. MSU is #14 with an SOS of 80. The only other team in the top 20 RPI with their SOS above 70? UC.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

Lloyd either sell more computers or chew more of that Chinese gum because if your thinking x is a 3 or 4 you’re crazy. Honestly it wouldn’t shock me one bit but Xavier plays in the #2 conference and Mich St plays in the #6. If they make X a 4 I will be pissed. Hell a 3 will piss me off. Nothing short of a #2 and a few first place points is what I better see Monday.

Get ready to get pissed.....

My prediction:
1. MSU
2. Nova
3. UVA
4. XU

We may be 3 but I would be surprised. I'm thinking 4 is most likely.

[xu82]

Get ready to get pissed.....

My prediction:
1. MSU
2. Nova
3. UVA
4. XU

We may be 3 but I would be surprised. I'm thinking 4 is most likely.

That wouldn’t surprise me at all. It would be cool to be ranked very high now, but even cooler to finish high in the big dance.

[usfldan]

Get ready to get pissed.....

My prediction:
1. MSU
2. Nova
3. UVA
4. XU

We may be 3 but I would be surprised. I'm thinking 4 is most likely.

This is about what I'm thinking- Nova/UVA is a toss up. But with one more 2-0 week, just think what it will look like...

[Emp]

This is about what I'm thinking- Nova/UVA is a toss up. But with one more 2-0 week, just think what it will look like...

This. It's right there in front of us. Win two games, were on top of the BE, and everything else will be fine. I'm so anticipating those games.

[American X]

Lloyd either sell more computers or chew more of that Chinese gum because if your thinking x is a 3 or 4 you’re crazy. Honestly it wouldn’t shock me one bit but Xavier plays in the #2 conference and Mich St plays in the #6. If they make X a 4 I will be pissed. Hell a 3 will piss me off. Nothing short of a #2 and a few first place points is what I better see Monday.


Get ready to get pissed.....

My prediction:
1. MSU
2. Nova
3. UVA
4. XU

We may be 3 but I would be surprised. I'm thinking 4 is most likely.

I fully expect Xavier to be ranked #4 come Monday and will not be upset BECAUSE IT WILL BE XAVIER'S HIGHEST RANKING EVER.

[JTG]

Probably the reason we don't jump the other 3 is the 3 skin of the teeth wins this past week. We have been the hunted and not the hunter for most of the BE season. Anyone who's coached or played knows how tough that is. And a win is a win. Can't wait to be in the Cintas for the game against the Evil Empire that is Nova.

[bleedXblue]

We just beat two top 30 RPI teams on the road this week.

Nova lost at home to#67 St Johns. Virginia lost at home to #56 Va Tech.

We SHOULD jump both schools.

But, the pollsters are generally lazy and uninformed along with biased towards certain programs.

Nothing will surprise me.

All I know is that this team can play with any team in the country.

[xumuskies08]

I’m expecting #4. I’d be thrilled with either #2 or #3 though. Hopefully the voters pay attention and realize what an impressive week X had.


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[D-West & PO-Z]

We just beat two top 30 RPI teams on the road this week.

Nova lost at home to#67 St Johns. Virginia lost at home to #56 Va Tech.

We SHOULD jump both schools.

But, the pollsters are generally lazy and uninformed along with biased towards certain programs.

Nothing will surprise me.

All I know is that this team can play with any team in the country.

Again I think we will be #4 and I will be happy with that, I think that is deserved. If we are higher I will be happy as well.

You honestly think we deserve to be ranked higher than Nova? I think for the writers to move us ahead of Nova and UVA just because of losses by them this week would be the lazy uninformed way of doing things.

Nova still has one less loss than us and has beat to more top 50 teams, and oh btw kicked our ass. Why in the world should we deserve to be ranked ahead of them? St. Johns is now a top 65 team. So that isnt a "bad" loss when looking at the RPI.

We have our shot Saturday to take down Nova and jump ahead of them and claim the Big East. I think we get it done, cant wait. For now? Nova deserves to be ahead of us.

UVA also deserves to remain ahead of us. They have one less loss, tougher SOS, more top 25 and top 50 wins.

Go 2-0 next week and the story will be different but for now I will be happy with that #4 ranking that I think will be coming.

[bleedXblue]

Again I think we will be #4 and I will be happy with that, I think that is deserved. If we are higher I will be happy as well.

You honestly think we deserve to be ranked higher than Nova? I think for the writers to move us ahead of Nova and UVA just because of losses by them this week would be the lazy uninformed way of doing things.

Nova still has one less loss than us and has beat to more top 50 teams, and oh btw kicked our ass. Why in the world should we deserve to be ranked ahead of them? St. Johns is now a top 65 team. So that isnt a "bad" loss when looking at the RPI.

We have our shot Saturday to take down Nova and jump ahead of them and claim the Big East. I think we get it done, cant wait. For now? Nova deserves to be ahead of us.

UVA also deserves to remain ahead of us. They have one less loss, tougher SOS, more top 25 and top 50 wins.

Go 2-0 next week and the story will be different but for now I will be happy with that #4 ranking that I think will be coming.

I think the rankings for the most part a weekly thing. You generally move up and down based on the prior weeks games. I don't think MOST of the pollsters look at games from a 3-4 weeks ago or look at SOS or Top RPI wins.

[Xavier]

I think the rankings for the most part a weekly thing. You generally move up and down based on the prior weeks games. I don't think MOST of the pollsters look at games from a 3-4 weeks ago or look at SOS or Top RPI wins.

You're probably right. And that is disappointing, I think they should look at overall rather than recency which is why I am ok if X doesn't jump Nova. I think they will, though.

[paulxu]

Strange fact: Kansas and Nova have 9 Group 1 wins.
Xavier has 8 Group 1 wins.

No one else in the country has 8 or 9.

[GoMuskies]

Xavier will get at least one #1 vote in this week's AP poll.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/my-new-top-ballot/article_78fefb42-0fab-11e8-a261-63747c28944e.html

[Lloyd Braun]

Xavier will get at least one #1 vote in this week's AP poll.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/my-new-top-ballot/article_78fefb42-0fab-11e8-a261-63747c28944e.html

Finally some good parentheses. We’ve come a long way since Xavier (OH)

[Lloyd Braun]

Elton Alexander (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2018/02/elton_alexanders_ap_top_25_bal_1.html) has X at 2...

If I had a vote my top 5 would be:
1) Virginia
2) Nova
3) Xavier
4) MSU
5) Purdue

[bleedXblue]

I watched Virginia. If they are #1, then we have a legitimate shot of winning this whole damn thing

[Lloyd Braun]

I watched Virginia. If they are #1, then we have a legitimate shot of winning this whole damn thing

I think Nova is the better team when healthy but Virginia is really really good. And of course we have a legitimate shot! Anyone here not believe that?

[STL_XUfan]

I am starting to get the feeling that we may some how end up at number 1 with the fewest number of first place votes. Seems like voters are falling into 1 of 2 camps:

1. MSU
2. XU
3/4. UVA/NOVA

or

1/2. UVA/Nova
3. X
4. MSU

With enough vote splitting between those two camps we may just end up with the most points. Regardless, I think the top 4 are all going to be very close in total votes.

[GetUp5]

I watched Virginia. If they are #1, then we have a legitimate shot of winning this whole damn thing

I feel like a lot of people watched UVA vs. V Tech and think UVA isn't very good.

Watch more of their games - on pace to be the best defense in the KenPom era. And their offense isn't bad either. Nova at full strength is better, but I have no problem with UVA being #1.

[dethwing]

Will that be the first AP #1 vote Xavier has ever received?

[GoMuskies]

Will that be the first AP #1 vote Xavier has ever received?

No, we got one in 97-98.

[dethwing]

Oh wow, I had no idea. Any recollection to the circumstances?

[GoMuskies]

Oh wow, I had no idea. Any recollection to the circumstances?

We were fantastic to start that season and were just destroying people. Then we lost at Millet Hall.

[GoMuskies]

I'm feeling #3 this week based on what I've seen of the voters. Maybe #2 but probably #3. As STL said above, though, the top 4 are all going to be very, very tight.

[XUFan09]

I feel like a lot of people watched UVA vs. V Tech and think UVA isn't very good.

Watch more of their games - on pace to be the best defense in the KenPom era. And their offense isn't bad either. Nova at full strength is better, but I have no problem with UVA being #1.Yep, this is my thought. Judging a team only by the time they lost is kinda silly. UVA is really friggin' good.

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[dethwing]

Exactly. Like looking at Xavier's loss at Providence and concluding: "Man this team is bad."

[XUFan09]

Exactly. Like looking at Xavier's loss at Providence and concluding: "Man this team is bad."Yup. And I've seen people do that! The flaws of a really good team look so easy to exploit in a loss, because they aren't playing well, the other team is doing a good job exploiting their system, or some combination of the two. For example, against UVA, apparently you just need to make shots. Well, yeah, but UVA makes those shot attempts as difficult as possible (and even then, they have a good offense).

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[GoMuskies]

Reputation wise, UVA is like Villanova two years ago. Because they have looked so bad in the NCAA Tournament with this exact style (and similar rankings) in recent years, no one is going to trust them until they actually win in March.

[principal]

For those interested, so far I've counted seven ballots (that can be found via Google). Here is how it shakes out to this point:

1. one vote
2. three votes
3. two votes
4. one vote

Again, FWIW.

principal

[bleedXblue]

Reputation wise, UVA is like Villanova two years ago. Because they have looked so bad in the NCAA Tournament with this exact style (and similar rankings) in recent years, no one is going to trust them until they actually win in March.

I draw comparisons to West Virginia early this year. They can really pressure you and have some really strong defenders, but you have to also be able to score the ball. Granted VA could have had an off night.....so, agree that just looking at one game isn't fair.

[XUFan09]

I draw comparisons to West Virginia early this year. They can really pressure you and have some really strong defenders, but you have to also be able to score the ball. Granted VA could have had an off night.....so, agree that just looking at one game isn't fair.The distinction is that UVA can defend and score in the half-court, and they are really good at preventing transition opportunities, forcing the game into the half-court. WVU needs the game to be in transition, or they are mediocre at best.

Edit: I will add that UVA's offense is strong, with few turnovers and good perimeter shooting, but they don't score as well inside the arc and really should take more threes.

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[atljar]

Found a couple individual voters online..... Most of them have MSU #1, and XU #2

[X-band '01]

We were fantastic to start that season and were just destroying people. Then we lost at Millet Hall.

That voter must have been really impressed when Xavier killed it at Western Kentucky that year.

[XU-PA]

For those interested, so far I've counted seven ballots (that can be found via Google). Here is how it shakes out to this point:

1. one vote
2. three votes
3. two votes
4. one vote

Again, FWIW.

principal

Ok, time to make the reservation. Sunday April 2nd, group tour of the basement of the Alamo.

[MD Muskie]

For those interested, so far I've counted seven ballots (that can be found via Google). Here is how it shakes out to this point:

1. one vote
2. three votes
3. two votes
4. one vote

Again, FWIW.

principal

But where does Graham Couch place us?....a question none of us really give two you know whats about.

[paulxu]

I'm having a LOT of fun watching people discuss where X belongs...in the TOP 5 in the country.

Good times!

[GetUp5]

I know Mich State is Mich State, but they're skating by because of the down B1G.

3-2 in Quad 1 games, while X sits at 7-3.

Their best road win is @ #59 Maryland. We have 3 road wins better than that (22 Creighton, 27 Seton Hall, 31 Butler).

[Steve A]

We definitely need to up-vote this guy on the voter page. I most certainly approve of his rankings.

http://www.roanoke.com/sports/my-new-ap-top-ballot/article_78fefb42-0fab-11e8-a261-63747c28944e.html

[Lloyd Braun]

#4 (https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll)

[dethwing]

Five first place votes!

[Lloyd Braun]

So Virginia loses at home and moves up a spot while Nova loses at home to a comparable team and drops two spots. Got it.

[markchal]

We also had two very difficult road wins. I don't necessarily think we're better than Nova and Virginia, but I do think we deserve to be ranked ahead of them this week.

Oh well, on to another gargantuan week in the program's history with two huge home games.

[XU 87]

So Virginia loses at home and moves up a spot while Nova loses at home to a comparable team and drops two spots. Got it.

That's a head scratcher re: Virginia.

[birdman71]

Less than 100 points below #1. More than 100 above #5

[XUOWNSUC]

Jesse Newell (Kansas City Star) has us 9th (up from 11th last week). He has uc 6th. He also has Creighton 20th and Butler 22nd this week. I guess road wins at #20 and #22 don't count that much.

[Xville]

Virginia moved up a spot because of what exactly? Honkey ACC bias. Sorry but this is a big pile of garbage...I'm sure if Xavier loses this week, they aren't going to move up a spot.

[XUFan09]

So Virginia loses at home and moves up a spot while Nova loses at home to a comparable team and drops two spots. Got it.On the season: Tech > SJU.

We'll see if SJU has actually turned around to the point that they change that narrative, but that's been the story for the season. Now, that leading to them being below MSU is silly. Either MSU is above both or below both.

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[xeus]

The five first place votes came from:

Dave Borges
David Cloninger
John Nyatawa
Mark Berman
Scott Richey

Most voters had us at 4, a good number at 3, and a few at 2. A couple morons had us at 6 or 7 or 9.

[Michigan Muskie]

Paul Klee ranked X #5 last week and UC #6. This week he flip flopped them. I guess beating UCF at home and a depleted SMU on the road is more impressive than winning at Butler and at Creighton. Weird.

[XU-PA]

Remember years when we were happy to be RV??? We're now RV FOR #1!!!
It's starting to sink on, this is a great effing team!!

[bleedXblue]

Paul Klee ranked X #5 last week and UC #6. This week he flip flopped them. I guess beating UCF at home and a depleted SMU on the road is more impressive than winning at Butler and at Creighton. Weird.

Thats just it. A bunch of idiots for the most part. They cant even remember what they dd the week before.

[Michigan Muskie]

Also #4 in the coaches poll with one #1 vote.

[dethwing]

And someone voted UC #1 in the coaches poll.

[XUOHTX]

Remember years when we were happy to be RV??? We're now RV FOR #1!!!
It's starting to sink on, this is a great effing team!!

This.

[X-band '01]

Virginia moved up a spot because of what exactly? Honkey ACC bias. Sorry but this is a big pile of garbage...I'm sure if Xavier loses this week, they aren't going to move up a spot.

They're mainly from a bloc of voters that considered the Selection Committee's evaluation of Virginia being #1 overall at this checkpoint.

The bloc of voters that voted Michigan State #1 are going by the hottest team in the country right now, not necessarily the best (i.e. who hasn't lost lately). Judging by Michigan State's upcoming schedule, the only games they have any chance in hell of losing are at Northwestern this week and at Wisconsin next week. They're not losing at Minnesota, and they sure as hell ain't losing at home to Illinois.

[GetUp5]

Let's not forget, just because we're ranked highly in them, that these polls are pointless.

They don't matter. Cool recruiting tool, cool to brag to your friends about, but they don't mean anything. And the writers that vote for them generally just go through the motions.

[GoMuskies]

Less than 100 points below #1. More than 100 above #5

Yep, we're closer to #1 than #5 in both polls.

[XUFan09]

I bet Nova lost a lot of votes to X, just Purdue probably lost a lot of votes to MSU. Curse of being in the same conference.

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[bleedXblue]

I resubmit the ridiculous point that Lunardi made over the weekend. X has to beat Nova to stay a #1 seed? Why, when Nova just lost to SJU and didnt get impacted. You mean to tell me if we beat SH and then lose to Nova we will be 24-4 and for sure a top 3 RPI.......and that bumps us out? GTFO

[XU 87]

Paul Klee ranked X #5 last week and UC #6. This week he flip flopped them. I guess beating UCF at home and a depleted SMU on the road is more impressive than winning at Butler and at Creighton. Weird.

And beating them by double digits in head to head.

[XU 87]

Let's not forget, just because we're ranked highly in them, that these polls are pointless.

They don't matter. Cool recruiting tool, cool to brag to your friends about, but they don't mean anything. And the writers that vote for them generally just go through the motions.

If they are so meaningless, then why do we have an entire thread discussing them?

And if they are a "cool recruiting tool", then they absolutely do matter.

[GoMuskies]

I resubmit the ridiculous point that Lunardi made over the weekend. X has to beat Nova to stay a #1 seed? Why, when Nova just lost to SJU and didnt get impacted. You mean to tell me if we beat SH and then lose to Nova we will be 24-4 and for sure a top 3 RPI.......and that bumps us out? GTFO

Lunardi was picking Xavier as a #1 seed now, but if you read that story closely he was also picking where he thought teams would end up on Selection Sunday. He picked Xavier to be a #2 seed (#8 overall) on Selection Sunday. In that context, his comment that if Xavier beats Villanova staying on the #1 line isn't out of the question makes sense.

[STL_XUfan]

I resubmit the ridiculous point that Lunardi made over the weekend. X has to beat Nova to stay a #1 seed? Why, when Nova just lost to SJU and didnt get impacted. You mean to tell me if we beat SH and then lose to Nova we will be 24-4 and for sure a top 3 RPI.......and that bumps us out? GTFO

There is a chance that Lunardi may be wrong. :jawdrop:

In all seriousness, I think the committee cares about who you beat and they don't care about losing to good teams. I don't see us moving off the 1 line if we lose to Villanova unless a team behind us picks up several quality wins to take our spot.

[XUFan09]

There is a chance that Lunardi may be wrong. :jawdrop:

In all seriousness, I think the committee cares about who you beat and they don't care about losing to good teams. I don't see us moving off the 1 line if we lose to Villanova unless a team behind us picks up several quality wins to take our spot.Yep. Beating Nova is essentially security, because the only competitive teams that have beat a team of that level are Villanova, Virginia, Duke, Texas Tech, and maybe MSU. Kansas gets an opportunity versus Tech, but it's still a limited list.

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[GetUp5]

If they are so meaningless, then why do we have an entire thread discussing them?

And if they are a "cool recruiting tool", then they absolutely do matter.

We have an entire thread discussing them because it's fun when our team is in the Top 5. This is a collection of college basketball writers, all pushing different agendas, voting in an imperfect fashion. It also has zero impact on the selection committee and zero impact on anything other than national perception.

My point being, why try to rationalize why KU beat writer Jesse Newell ranked us 9th and decides to submit his ballot based on KenPom's rankings, for example? If you don't know to take the polls with a grain of salt by now, yikes.

[XU 87]

My point being, why try to rationalize why KU beat writer Jesse Newell ranked us 9th and decides to submit his ballot based on KenPom's rankings, for example? .

Because this is a basketball message board and we discuss basketball on this basketball message board.

If you think this topic is so pointless, you should read and post on other threads.

[jhelmes37]

Guys, guys, guys..........do you REALIZE what this MEANS?

Yep..........that's right..........we can.............SNEAK UP ON PEOPLE!

Half joking, but for real.

Now, the boys have all the juice they need for Saturday. (I doubt they needed much, though.)

But if you think the team doesn't see that and say "What The Fuck? Let's steamroll these two teams this week," then you're crazy.

[Muskie]

Win on Wednesday and Saturday and the polls take care of themselves. X will need to play like the no 4. team in the Country to beat both Seton Hall and Nova.

[GetUp5]

Because this is a basketball message board and we discuss basketball on this basketball message board.

If you think this topic is so pointless, you should read and post on other threads.

Thx. My opinion was about basketball so I felt this basketball message board was a good place to post my basketball opinion.

But are you really arguing that the AP poll means something?

[RyanblockXU]

I have a feeling if we beat SHU, it puts them on the bubble.

Last year, X and Creighton really helped out the league by losing to so many teams. But now a strong top 2 teams are really running through the league and it could really cut down the amount of bids the league gets.

I could see Providence or Seton Hall blowing some games at the end of the year that reduces the league to 5 bids (still not bad).

[XU 87]

Thx. My opinion was about basketball so I felt this basketball message board was a good place to post my basketball opinion.

But are you really arguing that the AP poll means something?

Yes, most fans like being ranked. It's fun. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to talk about how high we'll be ranked.

Being ranked helps to have happy fans. Happy fans buy tickets and donate to the program and the school.

Being ranked also helps with recruiting.

Being ranked also gets you on Sports Center after your game.

Being ranked also and generally shows how good your team's season has been so.

And we all know that the Committee doesn't look at the polls to decide seeding.

So enjoy the season and enjoy X being ranked 4th in the country in February. It's a big deal.

[muskiefan82]

I have a feeling if we beat SHU, it puts them on the bubble.

Last year, X and Creighton really helped out the league by losing to so many teams. But now a strong top 2 teams are really running through the league and it could really cut down the amount of bids the league gets.

I could see Providence or Seton Hall blowing some games at the end of the year that reduces the league to 5 bids (still not bad).

I could also see St. Johns winning the Big East Tournament and getting a bid that they won't get otherwise

[GetUp5]

Yes, most fans like being ranked. It's fun. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to talk about how high we'll be ranked.

Being ranked also helps with recruiting.

Being ranked also gets you on Sports Center after your game.

Being ranked also and generally shows how good your team's season has been so.

And we all know that the Committee doesn't look at the polls to decide seeding.

So enjoy the season and enjoy X being ranked 4th in the country in February. It's a big deal.

The polls help with national perception. Agreed. Outside of that, the polls are stupid.

I'm enjoying the season. Sorry to rain on your poll parade.

[Masterofreality]

Yes, most fans like being ranked. It's fun. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to talk about how high we'll be ranked.

Being ranked helps to have happy fans. Happy fans buy tickets and donate to the program and the school.

Being ranked also helps with recruiting.

Being ranked also gets you on Sports Center after your game.

Being ranked also and generally shows how good your team's season has been so.

And we all know that the Committee doesn't look at the polls to decide seeding.

So enjoy the season and enjoy X being ranked 4th in the country in February. It's a big deal.

Also, on that infernal "ticker" that runs at the bottom of your TV screen- and ESPECIALLY on ESPN- your school shows up as a ranked team. Sometimes they only show the Top 10. When you're Top 5 they're FORCED to put your school's name up there.

ESPN must hate that they have to continually display 2 Big East teams. Fox on the other hand is eating it up!

[GIMMFD]

4th is impressive, highest ranking in school history ever, and a chance to improve on that this week, we'll get them talking if we have a good showing, let's go 2-0 this week and let things settle themselves. Until then, let's just embrace how awesome this team has been this season.

[xu82]

Yes, most fans like being ranked. It's fun. It's fun to talk about. It's fun to talk about how high we'll be ranked.

Being ranked helps to have happy fans. Happy fans buy tickets and donate to the program and the school.

Being ranked also helps with recruiting.

Being ranked also gets you on Sports Center after your game.

Being ranked also and generally shows how good your team's season has been so.

And we all know that the Committee doesn't look at the polls to decide seeding.

So enjoy the season and enjoy X being ranked 4th in the country in February. It's a big deal.


....but, other than that.....

[X-band '01]

Also, on that infernal "ticker" that runs at the bottom of your TV screen- and ESPECIALLY on ESPN- your school shows up as a ranked team. Sometimes they only show the Top 10. When you're Top 5 they're FORCED to put your school's name up there.

ESPN must hate that they have to continually display 2 Big East teams. Fox on the other hand is eating it up!

If Xavier-Villanova were part of their package, make no mistake they'd be hyping this as a Sonic Blockbuster nonstop for a week. As it is, they get a nice consolation prize in WVU-Kansas.

[HenryMuto]

Kind of BS the polls have always moved up winning teams and down losing teams. I don't ever recall seeing a team lose a game and move up to #1 in my entire life. I was expecting to come home and see X #2 behind Michigan State with Virginia/Nova at 3/4 in some order.

[XUFan09]

Kind of BS the polls have always moved up winning teams and down losing teams. I don't ever recall seeing a team lose a game and move up to #1 in my entire life. I was expecting to come home and see X #2 behind Michigan State with Virginia/Nova at 3/4 in some order.First, note that there was no consensus, other than most voters agreeing on the top 4. For example, I would definitely not rank Michigan State in my top 5. Then, you have to consider that there was a big gap between the trio of UVA, Villanova, and Purdue and everyone else. Villanova just suffered a bad loss and Purdue lost both games this week, so their dropoff was bigger than Virginia's. Virginia and UVA's losses were both Quadrant 2, but Tech has a winning conference record, so theirs was perceived to be not as bad. Also, I bet there are voters who are very conscious of conference, making it a zero-sum game instead of just treating Villanova/Xavier and Purdue/Michigan State as individual teams and not pairs. I imagine Nova and Purdue lost some votes to their conference mates (and vice versa), while UVA had no one to leach votes from them. These factors would all lead to UVA faltering a little but still managing to keep a slim 30 point lead on Michigan State, while Nova is only 9 points behind that.

In addition, the Committee just released their top 16 and had Virginia on top. I bet there are plenty of voters who for once evaluated entire bodies of work instead of just going off recency bias.

Edit: I forgot to add that I bet there's ACC/B1G bias too and some anti-BE bias. Lots of local sportswriters are pretty damn ignorant. National guys have a little bit more of a clue.

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[bleedXblue]

Trust me I am not going to lose any sleep over it, but X got disrespected by many of the voters. You don't move up losing teams. I guarantee you that if Duke, UNC, Kansas etc were in the same boat, they are #1 or #2 today. No doubt in my mind.

[X-band '01]

Whoever voted Xavier #9 and UC #2 on the same ballot is on acid.

[bleedXblue]

Whoever voted Xavier #9 and UC #2 on the same ballot is on acid.

that or just fuc%#g stupid

[D-West & PO-Z]

I dont think we deserve to be ahead of UVA or Nova. MSU we do but I knew that wasnt going to happen. So I am ok with 4, I dont think that is disrespectful to X. I think its about where we belong. Maybe 3 over MSU but after them beating PurDont I knew they would move up.

[HenryMuto]

I get that Virginia and Nova deserve to be higher on the overall seed list then Xavier I even predicted that I just thought the polls who have never had any connection with a team's resume would just drop Virginia and Nova to 3/4 and put MSU 1 and X 2 since that is how polls always do it. Very shocked to see Virginia over MSU in the polls I am guessing had the selection committee not come out until after this week's poll MSU would been 1 but I bet some pollers seen Virginia #1 overall seed and MSU at #11 and thought better of it.

Win Wednesday and Saturday and everything changes next week.

[XUFan09]

FYI for the weird order of the top 3 teams:

While most vote distributions for the top 10 teams were a skewed bell curve, Michigan State's was bimodal, one peak at #1 and one peak at #3. Not many people voted them #2. Some more voted them #4 but not as many as the #1 and #3 voters. Then it tails off with four votes in total between #5 and #6. Those who put them at #3 put both Virginia and Villanova ahead of them. The averages worked out to Michigan State at #2 with Virginia a little ahead of them and Villanova right behind them. If we were to place the top 5 by most common ranking selection, it would be the following:

1. Virginia
2. Villanova
3. Michigan State
4. Xavier
5. Cincinnati

[bleedXblue]

I dont think we deserve to be ahead of UVA or Nova. MSU we do but I knew that wasnt going to happen. So I am ok with 4, I dont think that is disrespectful to X. I think its about where we belong. Maybe 3 over MSU but after them beating PurDont I knew they would move up.

So let me get this straight. If Duke had our record and identical RPI. Won 2 road games against tourney teams, was winning their league and had the #2 RPI, they wouldn't have jumped to #1....or #2. BS

[dethwing]

FYI for the weird order of the top 3 teams:

While most vote distributions for the top 10 teams were a skewed bell curve, Michigan State's was bimodal, one peak at #1 and one peak at #3. Not many people voted them #2. Some more voted them #4 but not as many as the #1 and #3 voters. Then it tails off with four votes in total between #5 and #6. Those who put them at #3 put both Virginia and Villanova ahead of them. The averages worked out to Michigan State at #2 with Virginia a little ahead of them and Villanova right behind them. If we were to place the top 5 by most common ranking selection, it would be the following:

1. Virginia
2. Villanova
3. Michigan State
4. Xavier
5. Cincinnati

Which is why Borda count is an awful voting method.

Yes, "Borda". In case you weren't aware, the ranking system used by the AP and Coaches poll assigning points to positions was named after an 18th century French Mathematician.

[D-West & PO-Z]

So let me get this straight. If Duke had our record and identical RPI. Won 2 road games against tourney teams, was winning their league and had the #2 RPI, they wouldn't have jumped to #1....or #2. BS

I'm not saying they would or wouldnt have but they shouldnt of if everything was the same as it is now and you just made the name Xavier Duke instead.

Please make a viable argument for why we deserve to be ahead of Nova who has one less loss than us and crushed us when we played?

[bleedXblue]

I'm not saying they would or wouldnt have but they shouldnt of if everything was the same as it is now and you just made the name Xavier Duke instead.

Please make a viable argument for why we deserve to be ahead of Nova who has one less loss than us and crushed us when we played?

Now its just Villanova? A viable argument has ALREADY been stated??

1. They just lost at home to St Johns
2. We just beat two tourney teams on the road
3. We are currently in first place in the Big East
4. We are #2 in the RPI ahead on Nova

Add to all of that, they are without both Booth and Paschal right now.........

Yeah, right now.....TODAY.....we should be ranked ahead of them.

For the record, I don't really give a shit where we are. I'm just pissed in knowing that if Duke, UNC or Kansas we're in our shoes, they certainly wouldn't be ranked 4th. No way in hell.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Now its just Villanova? A viable argument has ALREADY been stated??

1. They just lost at home to St Johns
2. We just beat two tourney teams on the road
3. We are currently in first place in the Big East
4. We are #2 in the RPI ahead on Nova

Add to all of that, they are without both Booth and Paschal right now.........

Yeah, right now.....TODAY.....we should be ranked ahead of them.

For the record, I don't really give a shit where we are. I'm just pissed in knowing that if Duke, UNC or Kansas we're in our shoes, they certainly wouldn't be ranked 4th. No way in hell.

So if we lose to Seton Hall or Nova at home this week and beat the other and UC beats Houston and Wichita State, you'd say UC deserves a higher ranking than us?

I sure wouldnt.

And say we were 4 spots ahead of UC to make it a fair comparison.

[bleedXblue]

So if we lose to Seton Hall or Nova at home this week and beat the other and UC beats Houston and Wichita State, you'd say UC deserves a higher ranking than us?

I sure wouldnt.

And say we were 4 spots ahead of UC to make it a fair comparison.

Tough to really make this analogy considering the teams and opponents are much different than St Johns and Va Tech.

[SkyWalker]

There are two threads going on here; Rankings and Bracketology. I think currently we are fairly positioned in each. I think Rankings are done fairly quickily by the individual voters and look more to last weeks vote, overall record and more recent wins than things like strength of schedule and RPI. It represents more of the collective feeling of the voters. I think Virginia, Villanova, and Michigan State are all ranked higher than us because of a better record period. Cincinnati is hightly ranked for the same reason. Bracketology involves more detailed analysis and the selection committee spends days if not weeks creating the ultimate bracket. They are looking a RPI, strength of schedule, good wins, bad losses, home and road records and now tier 1, 2, 3 records. I think seeding us currently as a number one is correct but that's why a Michigan State is higher ranked and lower in bracketology.

[American X]

I noticed that GoMuskies favorite Sagarin Rankings (https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/) has Xavier at #1 in the RECENT ranking.


The RECENT, is score-based and weights RECENT play more heavily than earlier games. Its effect will become more pronounced the longer a season goes if a given team happens to have an upward or downward trend.

RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50 | PREDICTOR | GOLDEN_MEAN | RECENT


12 Xavier-Ohio = 89.27 24 3 79.47( 19) 4 1 | 10 2 | 88.71 12 | 89.94 9 | 94.06 1

[GoMuskies]

Hell yeah they do!!!!!

And that is obviously the most important ranking system out there!

Side note: LAST PLACE Big East team St. John's is #19.

[HenryMuto]

Double benefits for this one for me. Northwestern up 43-17 on Michigan State.

Helps Ohio State chances to win Big Ten and helps move X up the rankings if they beat Nova.

Go Wildcats!

[HenryMuto]

Northwestern lead by 22 at the half now only up 7 with 10 minutes left.............

[HenryMuto]

God Northwestern you suck..........

[XUFan09]

The most incredible part of that game isn't that Northwestern blew a 22 point lead but the amazingly bad way in which they did it. After scoring 49 points in the first half, they only scored ELEVEN points in the second half. Wow.

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[American X]

they only scored ELEVEN points in the second half



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIhg5WzFALE

[GoMuskies]

We stay at #4 this week, no?

[kellernr]

We stay at #4 this week, no?Possibly. Almost every top 25 team lost at least once this week. Duke might magically jump us because they are duke

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[X-band '01]

I for one will get the popcorn when Gonzaga is named #4 in the polls.

[XUFan09]

Possibly. Almost every top 25 team lost at least once this week. Duke might magically jump us because they are duke

Sent from my SM-N920V using TapatalkTo be fair to Duke (not that they deserve it), they beat a solid Tech team at home and then went on the road to pick up a great road win versus Clemson. A rise in the rankings wouldn't be magical.

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[Xville]

I'm going to go ahead and assume we drop 2-3 places just because the polls have done stupid shit the last few weeks...duke might be #1 and Kansas #2 because they won games this week.

[GoMuskies]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if Kansas is a #1 seed, I'd rather be their #2 than be a #1 ourselves. I can't believe they're in the conversation.

[OTRMUSKIE]

Northwestern blew a 27 point lead, largest in BIG history. I say top 4 stays the same. DUKE will prob go to 5. X will still be a #1 seed. Just need to win out and make Beast finals.

[dethwing]

MSU and Virginia will be neck-and-neck for top 2. Nova should stay a safe 3rd. 4th will be a toss up between Xavier, Gonzaga, and Duke. Pretty sure those will be the top 6.

[xuwin]

Lunardi still has us as a 1 seed in this mornings bracketology. I didn't think the loss to Villanova would hurt us much.

My opinion:
1. Villanova at their best is better than Xavier at their best.
2. Villanova at their best is better than anybody else in the country.
3. Xavier can beat Villanova if Villanova plays their average game which hasn't happened yet.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Lunardi still has us as a 1 seed in this mornings bracketology. I didn't think the loss to Villanova would hurt us much.

My opinion:
1. Villanova at their best is better than Xavier at their best.
2. Villanova at their best is better than anybody else in the country.
3. Xavier can beat Villanova if Villanova plays their average game which hasn't happened yet.

Agree.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Lunardi still has us as a 1 seed in this mornings bracketology. I didn't think the loss to Villanova would hurt us much.

My opinion:
1. Villanova at their best is better than Xavier at their best.
2. Villanova at their best is better than anybody else in the country.
3. Xavier can beat Villanova if Villanova plays their average game which hasn't happened yet.

And with KU as a 1 seed too and out West as opposed to MW (where we are) he still has us a the 3rd 1 seed.

[AviatorX]

And with KU as a 1 seed too and out West as opposed to MW (where we are) he still has us a the 3rd 1 seed.

X is definitely still in a great position. As far as a 1 seed, I think it might be tough to hold off hot MSU and Duke teams if they are able to finish strong. That said, if X can win these next three they'll certainly have a leg up going into championship week. It's not like the Big Ten Tournament will be ripe with quality wins to be had and Duke could certainly trip up.

[GoMuskies]

X is definitely still in a great position. As far as a 1 seed, I think it might be tough to hold off hot MSU and Duke teams if they are able to finish strong. That said, if X can win these next three they'll certainly have a leg up going into championship week. It's not like the Big Ten Tournament will be ripe with quality wins to be had and Duke could certainly trip up.

We'll know the results of the Big Ten before we go to MSG since the Big Ten moved their tournament up a week to warm up MSG for the Big East.

[D-West & PO-Z]

We'll know the results of the Big Ten before we go to MSG since the Big Ten moved their tournament up a week to warm up MSG for the Big East.

Yeah good point. We all should be hoping for a non Purdue/MSU champ. Maybe Michigan? I dont think OSU can get to the 1 line but I guess its possible if the win the Big 10 tourney depending on what else happens. So lets just go with Michigan.

[AviatorX]

Yeah good point. We all should be hoping for a non Purdue/MSU champ. Maybe Michigan? I dont think OSU can get to the 1 line but I guess its possible if the win the Big 10 tourney depending on what else happens. So lets just go with Michigan.

Agree - although I think you can make the argument Purdue's chances are pretty low after losing to Wisconsin. They also look decidedly mediocre at the moment.

[skyking]

X still #4 in the AP poll. UC dropped to #11.

[D-West & PO-Z]

Agree - although I think you can make the argument Purdue's chances are pretty low after losing to Wisconsin. They also look decidedly mediocre at the moment.

Yeah Penn State pulling out a win last night would have been big.

[dethwing]

MSU and Virginia will be neck-and-neck for top 2. Nova should stay a safe 3rd. 4th will be a toss up between Xavier, Gonzaga, and Duke. Pretty sure those will be the top 6.

Damn, nailed it! Tech tied with zags at 6.

[BMoreX]

Honestly surprised we're still 4.

[dethwing]

AP voters are getting better, less predictable. There was a time when knee-jerk reactions to a loss would be the only thing that mattered. Now it seems they are doing more "body-of-work" comparisons. I think #4 is still correct for us. I don't see a better resume.

Of course, part of what helped was that everyone else lost as well. Cinci lost twice, Purdue split (And was lucky at that), Tech Split (With a win over plummeting OU), OSU dropped 2...etc.

[Nigel Tufnel]

So what happens Monday? Does X jump Nova? Or if rest of top 5 wins, does everything just stay the same?

[Xavier]

So what happens Monday? Does X jump Nova? Or if rest of top 5 wins, does everything just stay the same?

I expect Nova to fall a couple spots.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I expect Nova to fall a couple spots.

Just feels weird to put an X team ahead of a Nova team with an identical record because of what Nova did to X this year...

[GoMuskies]

I think we jump em. Not that it matters that much. If we both take care of business, we'll have a third matchup with the second #1 seed likely at stake. Possibly #1 overall if Virginia stumbles.

[Juice]

Just feels weird to put an X team ahead of a Nova team with an identical record because of what Nova did to X this year...

Is this one of those situations where Villanova is a bad matchup for X but X might be the better team?

I don't think this but I'm playing devils advocate.