Holtman Discusses Reigniting In-State Rivalries

[Muskie]

Link (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/chris-holtmann-ohio-state-having-conversations-about-igniting-in-state-rivalries/)

The era of Ohio State avoiding regular season, non-conference games against intra-state rivals may be coming to an close with Chris Holtmann at the helm of the program.
Ohio State has not played Cincinnati in a non-conference game since 2006. They have not faced off with Dayton for nearly 30 years, since 1988, and Xavier has not gotten a regular season game against the Buckeyes since 1935, but a change to that philosophy is at least under consideration.
“We’ve engaged in some of those conversations,” Holtmann told reporters this week (http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/new-ohio-state-coach-open-idea-playing-other-top-ohio-schools/6e5ftpN0PXdtx0y6xbtijI/?ecmp=daytondaily_social_twitter_2014_sports_sfp), adding later that “part of our job is to provide a game that’s exciting for our fans. We’re working on some things. It’s probably, in terms of a final decision, a ways off, but I’m certainly open to it.”

[Muskie]

There is no reason Ohio can't do what Indiana does. Every Year Indiana either plays Notre Dame or Butler at the Crossroads Classic (they play Purdue in the Big Ten). Purdue plays the Other (and in the odd year where IU/Purdue play once I believe IU would play Purdue and Butler would Play ND).

Ohio State, Xavier, UC, UD should play in the same type of format.

[WCWIII]

As I sit here in Columbus ... I'd be all for a 2 at our place for one at theirs with OSU.
(wow, a cynical post from WCWIII, that does not happen often ... but come on 1935 with Xavier?)

[GoMuskies]

I'm personally indifferent to Xavier playing Ohio State. It would be kind of fun (once they don't suck anymore), but I don't have any huge desire to play them specifically. Other than the Thad fiasco and the NCAA Tournament debacle, I don't really think much about Ohio State basketball as it relates to Xavier. Pretty much two unrelated topics.

[MuskieXU]

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure there's really a strong desire to make this happen. There's not a lot stopping these teams from just putting each other on the schedule, but the fact that it doesn't happen makes me think (or in some cases know) there's a reason for that. I would prefer to just schedule a home and home with OSU if they're interested.

[muskiefan82]

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure there's really a strong desire to make this happen. There's not a lot stopping these teams from just putting each other on the schedule, but the fact that it doesn't happen makes me think (or in some cases know) there's a reason for that. I would prefer to just schedule a home and home with OSU if they're interested.

There are at least 5 Big Ten teams I'd rather schedule before Ohio St. (Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State)

[MuskieXU]

There are at least 5 Big Ten teams I'd rather schedule before Ohio St. (Wisconsin, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State)

There would be something especially satisfying about crushing OSU as compared to those other teams, but I agree that its mostly just another game at this point. I have a feeling this conversation is going to end up with OSU acting like its doing the other schools a big favor by offering to play them, and then insisting the event is held yearly in Columbus at Nationwide. I could take it or leave it.

[muskiefan82]

If OSU only offers to play at their place, they can suck it. They aren't worth it.

[xufan2434]

There is no reason Ohio can't do what Indiana does. Every Year Indiana either plays Notre Dame or Butler at the Crossroads Classic (they play Purdue in the Big Ten). Purdue plays the Other (and in the odd year where IU/Purdue play once I believe IU would play Purdue and Butler would Play ND).

Ohio State, Xavier, UC, UD should play in the same type of format.

I think this would be really fun. The Crossroads Classic is always something I look forward to watching, and I'm not a fan of any of the schools. Obviously X and UC would never play each other in the event, they would just rotate between OSU and UD. The hard part, is where to have the event.

Quicken Loans in Cleveland would be the best venue, but it makes no sense for those 4 schools to go all the way up there.
US Bank is trash. Until they upgrade, they'd never have it there
UD would never be agreed upon to give Dayton a home game out of it.

My guess is Nationwide Arena in Columbus? I assume they could put a basketball court in there since it's only used for hockey right?

[surfxu]

I can't imagine Xavier ever scheduling dayton again as long as Chris Mack is around. The way those knuckledragging, mouth breathing, jelly bellied, booger eating morons treated the Mack family at Christy's induction to the dayton hall of fame cemented that decision. As for the OSU thing, I'm sure we'll probably get them as part of this Big East/B10 challenge at some point. Kind of cool if we played up there, we could fill the area w/ 75% X fans and make it feel like an away game for the buckeyes. I would like to get revenge for that tournament game. Other than that, I agree, much rather play Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin or IU... and Michigan too I guess.

[MuskieXU]

I can't imagine Xavier ever scheduling dayton again as long as Chris Mack is around. The way those knuckledragging, mouth breathing, jelly bellied, booger eating morons treated the Mack family at Christy's induction to the dayton hall of fame cemented that decision. As for the OSU thing, I'm sure we'll probably get them as part of this Big East/B10 challenge at some point. Kind of cool if we played up there, we could fill the area w/ 75% X fans and make it feel like an away game for the buckeyes. I would like to get revenge for that tournament game. Other than that, I agree, much rather play Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin or IU... and Michigan too I guess.

I dont think CM has any interest in going to Dayton, but I wonder if he'd view a neutral game any differently. I dont see him as one to back down from a challenge if all other schools were in.

[xudash]

If the Buckeyes get serious about instate games again, and if something similar to what they do in Indiana can be put together, then I would be in favor of something like THE SLATE ON THE LAKE where Ohio State, Xavier, UC and the projected best MAC school make the cut:

1. Screw UD; it would be funny to witness them losing it over being left out of something most of them probably would feel entitlement over;
2. Cavalier's NBA Arena; and
3. A destination event.

If Ohio State pursues instate games, but demands that all games must be played in Columbus, the whole thing may end up being about wasted energy.

[GIMMFD]

If the Buckeyes get serious about instate games again, and if something similar to what they do in Indiana can be put together, then I would be in favor of something like THE SLATE ON THE LAKE where Ohio State, Xavier, UC and the projected best MAC school make the cut:

1. Screw UD; it would be funny to witness them losing it over being left out of something most of them probably would feel entitlement over;
2. Cavalier's NBA Arena; and
3. A destination event.

If Ohio State pursues instate games, but demands that all games must be played in Columbus, the whole thing may end up being about wasted energy.

I highly doubt the schools would take an Ohio, Akron, or Miami (OH) over UD... but I agree it would be hilarious.

[JTG]

Do to a suitable location, the series probably never happens. The Indiana classic happens in the middle of the state, and due to scheduling Butler has to play either IU or Purdue every year. They never get to play ND. Same would happen with this proposal, as X would always play VD or OSU, and VD would only play X or UC.
On a side note why do people wish to play Wisc? I'd rather play any other BIG school except PSU or Rutgers.

[THRILLHOUSE]

I highly doubt the schools would take an Ohio, Akron, or Miami (OH) over UD... but I agree it would be hilarious.

I think they might consider it though. If Cleveland would be the venue for such an event, I'm not sure they'd want to have 3 southwestern Ohio schools in it every year. Might be better for attendance to rotate northern Ohio schools like Cleveland State, Akron, Toledo, etc.

(And yeah, agreed with JTG above. If it's going to be a true neutral site event, figuring out a venue/city that would work for all 4 would be a big obstacle.)

[dnnrobert]

No MAC school is going to draw enough eyeballs/butts in the seats to make it worthwhile. Xavier's hatred of Dayton aside, an Ohio version of the Indiana Classic makes no sense unless it's OSU, Xavier, UC, and UD.

It's a shame US Bank is such a dump. Rotating it between US Bank and Nationwide would make it pretty worthwhile for all parties IMO. You could argue Dayton would get the short end of the stick, but they are nearly equidistant to Cincinnati and Columbus and would be the lowest-profile school in the tournament, so screw 'em.

[Wheelhouse]

I'd be in favor of this, one reason being it would give Xavier at least one and maybe two quality games for their tournament resume each year. I also enjoy it when local teams play each other. It can foster rivalries and gives the games some buzz.

[boozehound]

I'm personally indifferent to Xavier playing Ohio State. It would be kind of fun (once they don't suck anymore), but I don't have any huge desire to play them specifically. Other than the Thad fiasco and the NCAA Tournament debacle, I don't really think much about Ohio State basketball as it relates to Xavier. Pretty much two unrelated topics.

Pretty much exactly how I feel.

[muskiefan82]

I would welcome the opportunity for X knock that team senseless this year. As the schedule is full, to borrow a statement, f' em. They now need to schedule X WAY MORE than X needs to schedule them. In truth, they need UC on their schedule more than UC does. Dayton seems reasonable for both. Maybe UD can win in Columbus in an epic "no one in SW Ohio gives a crap" game

[D-West & PO-Z]

No MAC school is going to draw enough eyeballs/butts in the seats to make it worthwhile. Xavier's hatred of Dayton aside, an Ohio version of the Indiana Classic makes no sense unless it's OSU, Xavier, UC, and UD.

It's a shame US Bank is such a dump. Rotating it between US Bank and Nationwide would make it pretty worthwhile for all parties IMO. You could argue Dayton would get the short end of the stick, but they are nearly equidistant to Cincinnati and Columbus and would be the lowest-profile school in the tournament, so screw 'em.

Yeah a MAC school wouldnt bring half the fans UD would no matter where the location.

[xudash]

No MAC school is going to draw enough eyeballs/butts in the seats to make it worthwhile. Xavier's hatred of Dayton aside, an Ohio version of the Indiana Classic makes no sense unless it's OSU, Xavier, UC, and UD.

It's a shame US Bank is such a dump. Rotating it between US Bank and Nationwide would make it pretty worthwhile for all parties IMO. You could argue Dayton would get the short end of the stick, but they are nearly equidistant to Cincinnati and Columbus and would be the lowest-profile school in the tournament, so screw 'em.

I'm not being driven by a hatred of UD over this. I'm very comfortable in feeling very good that I'm a Xavier guy versus being tied to UD. I don't see UD in the rear view mirror any longer; we've completely blown well beyond them. It's more about being able to have one more laugh at Little Brother's expense.

Not exactly a mature disposition on my part, but I really don't care in this case.

Seriously, I get that as things stand presently, UD might be a better option than the top MAC school in Ohio, but someone will have to keep an eye on how well their new coach does up there, as well on the police blotter to see how many more UD basketball players land in jail. By the time they actually put this event together, if they ever put it together, it is not a forgone conclusion that UD will present the best 4th participant option.

[GIMMFD]

I'm not being driven by a hatred of UD over this. I'm very comfortable in feeling very good that I'm a Xavier guy versus being tied to UD. I don't see UD in the rear view mirror any longer; we've completely blown well beyond them. It's more about being able to have one more laugh at Little Brother's expense.

Not exactly a mature disposition on my part, but I really don't care in this case.

Seriously, I get that as things stand presently, UD might be a better option than the top MAC school in Ohio, but someone will have to keep an eye on how well their new coach does up there, as well on the police blotter to see how many more UD basketball players land in jail. By the time they actually put this event together, if they ever put it together, it is not a forgone conclusion that UD will present the best 4th participant option.

I guess that's true, we aren't looking into the future, mainly thinking about it now. I do also agree with the sentiments of how we are miles ahead of Dayton in terms of program and prestige. I do like the fan counter argument though, who'd sell more tickets, UD or Ohio? All UD has is an irrational over-hyping of their basketball team, it's what gets them through the day. I feel as if the MAC schools could care less. In terms of business, UD is the smart move, unless something crazy happens and Miami, Ohio, or Akron or someone gets good... crazy like LeBron retiring and deciding to become head coach of Akron crazy.

[xudash]

I guess that's true, we aren't looking into the future, mainly thinking about it now. I do also agree with the sentiments of how we are miles ahead of Dayton in terms of program and prestige. I do like the fan counter argument though, who'd sell more tickets, UD or Ohio? All UD has is an irrational over-hyping of their basketball team, it's what gets them through the day. I feel as if the MAC schools could care less. In terms of business, UD is the smart move, unless something crazy happens and Miami, Ohio, or Akron or someone gets good... crazy like LeBron retiring and deciding to become head coach of Akron crazy.

Fan attendance for such an event is a meaningful consideration. No one wants this thing being staged only to end up with a partially full venue for it.

With that noted, we're talking about an event that would involve one of the largest universities in the world. We're talking about an event that would obviously be staged in the State of Ohio, where all four participating schools are located, irrespective of which city it would be staged in. So, my thoughts on this include:

1. Yes, Ohio State is a "football" school, but anyone who believes Buckeye fans wouldn't show up for something like this isn't being realistic; it wouldn't take much for 10k of their fans
to show up.
2. I would think that UC and Xavier would throw at least 5k in attendance each at this thing.
3. Especially if its Akron or Toledo, the novelty of such an event with them participating along with the likes of Ohio State, Xavier and UC would draw some of them out.
4. Casual fan interest would probably contribute 2k to 3k in attendance.

The bottom line is that the sweater vests aren't even needed to make this event a success.

Big caveat: seating allocations. First come, first served, or base allotment per school? If minimums per school become part of the mix, then UD would most likely be included. The bad news for them is that they would get to watch the Flyers lose to Xavier by 30 or 40 again, except without palm trees and Mickey outside this time around.

[Emp]

I think this would be really fun. The Crossroads Classic is always something I look forward to watching, and I'm not a fan of any of the schools. Obviously X and UC would never play each other in the event, they would just rotate between OSU and UD. The hard part, is where to have the event.

Quicken Loans in Cleveland would be the best venue, but it makes no sense for those 4 schools to go all the way up there.
US Bank is trash. Until they upgrade, they'd never have it there
UD would never be agreed upon to give Dayton a home game out of it.

My guess is Nationwide Arena in Columbus? I assume they could put a basketball court in there since it's only used for hockey right?

Nationwide has hosted men's and women's tourney games. But more than half the seats are beyond the baseline.

I d be OK playing in the Shott in a 4 team/2 game format if we got 1/4 of the tickets and revenue. It's a real basketball arena.

I don't think Ohio State will come to Cincinnati for either us or UC, even on a 2 for 1, unless it's to that godawful arena to fulfill a promise to a recruit.

[muskiefan82]

I don't think Ohio State will come to Cincinnati for either us or UC, even on a 2 for 1, unless it's to that godawful arena to fulfill a promise to a recruit.

Then this will never happen and talk of it from OSU is just lip service. I'd rather work out a OH/KY battle between UC. XU, UL, and UK. Let's do that instead. Games to be played at BB&T

Yes, I know it's a pipedream

[GoMuskies]

Then this will never happen and talk of it from OSU is just lip service. I'd rather work out a OH/KY battle between UC. XU, UL, and UK. Let's do that instead. Games to be played at BB&T

Yes, I know it's a pipedream

Of course it's a pipedream. It would also be one of the more difficult tickets in sporting history.

[xubrew]

Link (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/08/02/chris-holtmann-ohio-state-having-conversations-about-igniting-in-state-rivalries/)

The era of Ohio State avoiding regular season, non-conference games against intra-state rivals may be coming to an close with Chris Holtmann at the helm of the program.
Ohio State has not played Cincinnati in a non-conference game since 2006. They have not faced off with Dayton for nearly 30 years, since 1988, and Xavier has not gotten a regular season game against the Buckeyes since 1935, but a change to that philosophy is at least under consideration.
“We’ve engaged in some of those conversations,” Holtmann told reporters this week (http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/new-ohio-state-coach-open-idea-playing-other-top-ohio-schools/6e5ftpN0PXdtx0y6xbtijI/?ecmp=daytondaily_social_twitter_2014_sports_sfp), adding later that “part of our job is to provide a game that’s exciting for our fans. We’re working on some things. It’s probably, in terms of a final decision, a ways off, but I’m certainly open to it.”


There is no reason Ohio can't do what Indiana does. Every Year Indiana either plays Notre Dame or Butler at the Crossroads Classic (they play Purdue in the Big Ten). Purdue plays the Other (and in the odd year where IU/Purdue play once I believe IU would play Purdue and Butler would Play ND).

Ohio State, Xavier, UC, UD should play in the same type of format.

It is my understanding that Chris Holtmann is hugely in favor of this. He's kind of like Tony Bennett at Virginia in the sense that he wants to play the regional teams, and sees value to playing them in home and homes, and doesn't think the world will end if happen to not win a few of them. Virginia has lost to GW and VCU, yet still went on to earn #2 seeds or better. Not everyone at Ohio State is as keen on the idea, but they at least seem to be listening. I'm basing that on the fact that they haven't told him to put a sock in it yet, even after he kind of went public with it. He has also apparently met with the big brass, including Gene Smith, about doing it.

Now, I THINK the proposed format would basically be that it would be a five team round robin, which would make it an exempt tournament. XU, UD, OSU, and UC would play a double header at a neutral site (well, mostly neutral anyway), and then play at home against one of the other two teams, and on the road against the other team. In other words, every year those four teams would get a home, neutral, and road game, and the schedule would alternate. There would also be a fifth smaller team that would play a buy game against the other four teams. This would make it a four game exempt event (assuming all the games were played within two weeks of each other). This doesn't mean that the teams couldn't play in another exempt such as Maui, or Old Spice, or whatever. It just means that if they weren't, then they could count this as an exempt event and still play 31 total games. The smaller buy team would get four buy games, which means four paydays, and have it count as an exempt even for them as well. It also probably wouldn't be the same team every year.

Now, as much as I would like to see this, and as great as I think it would be, I think the chances of it happening are way less than half. There are just too many alpha minded programs who would want too many concessions. But, I do think that Ohio State will seek out games against Ohio schools one way or another. I do think UC v Ohio State will become somewhat of a long standing home and home to where it's a virtual fixture game. I also think that Ohio State would look to alternate playing home and homes with XU and UD. So, they'd be playing UC every year, and either UD or XU every year, and probably stagger it so one game is at home and the other is away.

That's what I think Holtmann would like. Now, whether it happens or not, we shall see.

[JTG]

Well Brew, you totally went off the rails with that idea. That has as much chance of happening as Xavier joining the Big Ten in all sports including football.

[Strange Brew]

UD and Wright State should face off in a play in game.

[xumuskies08]

Nationwide has hosted men's and women's tourney games. But more than half the seats are beyond the baseline.

I d be OK playing in the Shott in a 4 team/2 game format if we got 1/4 of the tickets and revenue. It's a real basketball arena.

I don't think Ohio State will come to Cincinnati for either us or UC, even on a 2 for 1, unless it's to that godawful arena to fulfill a promise to a recruit.

Both Nationwide and Shottenstein have hockey rink dimensions though. And having sat behind the basket for multiple St. X games at the Shott, I can tell you it sucks just as much as any NBA/NHL combo arena.

[bobandtim]

Play games at Riverfront/US Bank Arena? Cleveland/Cavs arena?

[xubrew]

Well Brew, you totally went off the rails with that idea. That has as much chance of happening as Xavier joining the Big Ten in all sports including football.

You're probably right. But this also wasn't something I came up with. I like it, but I know the chances of it happening are very very small.

[X-band '01]

Xavier will never pass up exempt events like Maui, Atlantis, Charleston or Orlando for an event involving in-state schools, even if they're Ohio State or Dayton. I'm more puzzled as to why Ohio State doesn't opt into exempt events more often. I know it's difficult for events to juggle 14 B1G teams, but there are a lot of events out there now.

[casualfan]

Xavier will never pass up exempt events like Maui, Atlantis, Charleston or Orlando for an event involving in-state schools, even if they're Ohio State or Dayton. I'm more puzzled as to why Ohio State doesn't opt into exempt events more often. I know it's difficult for events to juggle 14 B1G teams, but there are a lot of events out there now.

Ohio State is in an exempt event this year and the proposed in-state event would not replace the other exempt events we have been in.

[X-band '01]

UC and Ohio State have a home-and-home locked into place. UC will host Ohio State next season to reopen Fifth Third Arena and Ohio State will play host in 2019-20. Both games will be on Opening Night (aka first allowable date of competition per UC's press release).

[drudy23]

Might as well make the drive down the road to our place too.

As much as I despise UC, these games should be played.

[Snipe]

They should be played Drudy.

Fans would love to have an Ohio State ticket stub on that season package. That is a game people want to see.

Dayton is a game people want to see too, but don't say that out loud on this board. That is a huge rivalry game and also a game that should be played.

I think once a decade we should have an exempt preseason tournament in Cleveland featuring 8 of Ohio's 13 division 1 teams. Maybe you could offer some play in games to include all of Ohio's teams. The battle for Ohio of something and do it once every ten years. You might end up with packed hotels in Cleveland for a weekend.

You would need state legislators to make this happen, much as they compelled Kentucky and Louisville to play each other every year. Cleveland is a neutral site, and they could use the cash. I think the thing would be well attended.

[fellahmuskie]

Assuming we play at home next season in the Gavitt Games, this probably rules out OSU. I'm also guessing we wouldn't play Wisconsin or Michigan again. Hoping that means IU or MSU are headed to Cintas.

Also, I would support an Ohio Classic every year in Columbus between Xavier, UC, OSU and Dayton. We play either Dayton or OSU every year and Dayton plays Xavier or UC every year (no X - UC games outside of the Shootout). I feel like OSU would be happy to play at Nationwide and all the other schools would enjoy the opportunity for a high-profile, neutral court event.

[sirthought]

You have to include the other D1 schools in anything that planned ahead. I have no interest in X playing a rivalry game with Dayton each year, but I would love to have them as part of Battle of Ohio event. And for that matter including Wright State, Cleveland State, Kent, BGSU, Ohio, Miami, OSU, and UC...it's the right thing to do for fans and competition.

[xupuck10]

You have to include the other D1 schools in anything that planned ahead. I have no interest in X playing a rivalry game with Dayton each year, but I would love to have them as part of Battle of Ohio event. And for that matter including Wright State, Cleveland State, Kent, BGSU, Ohio, Miami, OSU, and UC...it's the right thing to do for fans and competition.

Why? Indiana has the Crossroads Classic and it always has Indiana, Butler, Purdue and Notre Dame. It doesn't include Ball State, Evansville, Indiana State, IPFW, IUPUI, or Valparaiso.

[drudy23]

Assuming we play at home next season in the Gavitt Games, this probably rules out OSU. I'm also guessing we wouldn't play Wisconsin or Michigan again. Hoping that means IU or MSU are headed to Cintas.

Also, I would support an Ohio Classic every year in Columbus between Xavier, UC, OSU and Dayton. We play either Dayton or OSU every year and Dayton plays Xavier or UC every year (no X - UC games outside of the Shootout). I feel like OSU would be happy to play at Nationwide and all the other schools would enjoy the opportunity for a high-profile, neutral court event.

All of this would be awesome.

[xukeith]

I could care less about OSU and UD. They are lesser programs.
maybe a 1 for 1 with OSU. Both would help SOS.
We can be snobby now.

[muskiefan82]

I could care less about OSU and UD. They are lesser programs.
maybe a 1 for 1 with OSU. Both would help SOS.
We can be snobby now.

So, you do care a little?

[drudy23]

Holtman will put them back on the map. Dayton game is a good non-conference game.

[Olsingledigit]

Xavier will never pass up exempt events like Maui, Atlantis, Charleston or Orlando for an event involving in-state schools, even if they're Ohio State or Dayton. I'm more puzzled as to why Ohio State doesn't opt into exempt events more often. I know it's difficult for events to juggle 14 B1G teams, but there are a lot of events out there now.
Butler, Norte Dame, IU, and Purdue do this type of Classic every year in Indy. It does not keep any of them from Holiday tournaments.

[paulxu]

Probably the first time I remember Chris Mack commenting on possibly playing Dayton in the future.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2017/10/26/xavier-ohio-state-uc-and-dayton-all-ohio-college-hoops-event-chris-mack-listening/805013001/

[bobbiemcgee]

Maybe turn the Crosstown Shootout into the Cross-State Shootout for a whole weekend.

[sirthought]

Maybe turn the Crosstown Shootout into the Cross-State Shootout for a whole weekend.

That would be interesting. I wonder how much money the two schools would leave on the table with that? There may be more to gain, honestly, depending on how valuable a TV network would view this event. I've never really paid attention to Indiana's, so I can't say that it has elevated things for them beyond the state line.

I still could care less about playing Dayton, and think they should consider OU, KSU, Toledo, WSU, etc. You could make it a bigger deal if the smaller schools have their shot.

[GIMMFD]

That would be interesting. I wonder how much money the two schools would leave on the table with that? There may be more to gain, honestly, depending on how valuable a TV network would view this event. I've never really paid attention to Indiana's, so I can't say that it has elevated things for them beyond the state line.

I still could care less about playing Dayton, and think they should consider OU, KSU, Toledo, WSU, etc. You could make it a bigger deal if the smaller schools have their shot.

Eh but out of those 4, who'd really be worth it for any of us 3 to play? Even Miami would be a better move than those 4.

[Olsingledigit]

That would be interesting. I wonder how much money the two schools would leave on the table with that? There may be more to gain, honestly, depending on how valuable a TV network would view this event. I've never really paid attention to Indiana's, so I can't say that it has elevated things for them beyond the state line.

I still could care less about playing Dayton, and think they should consider OU, KSU, Toledo, WSU, etc. You could make it a bigger deal if the smaller schools have their shot.

Being from Indy I would say that it has helped to re-elevate Butler in recent years. This is an old event that was terminated for some years and re-instituted recently. You are probably right about not elevating the schools beyond the borders and it is not picked up nationally on TV, but it is a good resume building event for all the schools.

[JTG]

Being from Indy I would say that it has helped to re-elevate Butler in recent years. This is an old event that was terminated for some years and re-instituted recently. You are probably right about not elevating the schools beyond the borders and it is not picked up nationally on TV, but it is a good resume building event for all the schools.
The games ARE on national tv, not as a package, usually by 2 different networks. As for those 2nd tier schools, Who would pay to watch That ? And what network would want those schools ?

[sirthought]

The games ARE on national tv, not as a package, usually by 2 different networks. As for those 2nd tier schools, Who would pay to watch That ? And what network would want those schools ?

alums of those schools...duh

[Lloyd Braun]

Small update (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-18/college-basketball-today-south-carolina-clemson-georgia) on this thread

“Holtmann said Dayton is in for certain for this potential event. Xavier coach Chris Mack told NCAA.com he would do it. Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin told NCAA.com he isn’t closed to the idea, either. He did say, though, “I want the Ohio State series to grow like UK vs. Louisville. I think it will have national appeal. It could be huge for both of us. Hopefully we will both have great teams and I’m confident Chris will win.’”

Soooo Mick thinks OSU-UC has UK-UL potential.... ummmmm ok.

[BMoreX]

Small update (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-18/college-basketball-today-south-carolina-clemson-georgia) on this thread

“Holtmann said Dayton is in for certain for this potential event. Xavier coach Chris Mack told NCAA.com he would do it. Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin told NCAA.com he isn’t closed to the idea, either. He did say, though, “I want the Ohio State series to grow like UK vs. Louisville. I think it will have national appeal. It could be huge for both of us. Hopefully we will both have great teams and I’m confident Chris will win.’”

Soooo Mick thinks OSU-UC has UK-UL potential.... ummmmm ok.

typical mick

[GIMMFD]

Small update (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-18/college-basketball-today-south-carolina-clemson-georgia) on this thread

“Holtmann said Dayton is in for certain for this potential event. Xavier coach Chris Mack told NCAA.com he would do it. Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin told NCAA.com he isn’t closed to the idea, either. He did say, though, “I want the Ohio State series to grow like UK vs. Louisville. I think it will have national appeal. It could be huge for both of us. Hopefully we will both have great teams and I’m confident Chris will win.’”

Soooo Mick thinks OSU-UC has UK-UL potential.... ummmmm ok.

I think he was dropped too many times as a baby.

[Lloyd Braun]

I hope UC gives him a lifetime contract. I thought Huggins was going to be tough to replace but Mick is just as easy to hate on, all while having no respect. At least Huggs commanded a little bit of respect.

[waggy]

Wouldn't there have to been a rivalry in the first place for it to re-ignited? How many times total has OSU played at X?

We already have one of the top rivalries in the country with UC, and we dumped the dump, so as far as X is concerned it's a big ho hum.

[MuskieXU]

Small update (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-18/college-basketball-today-south-carolina-clemson-georgia) on this thread

“Holtmann said Dayton is in for certain for this potential event. Xavier coach Chris Mack told NCAA.com he would do it. Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin told NCAA.com he isn’t closed to the idea, either. He did say, though, “I want the Ohio State series to grow like UK vs. Louisville. I think it will have national appeal. It could be huge for both of us. Hopefully we will both have great teams and I’m confident Chris will win.’”

Soooo Mick thinks OSU-UC has UK-UL potential.... ummmmm ok.

Mick and UC fans are desperate for a new rival to downplay the fact that their old rival (UL) left them in the dust and their only remaining rival is kicking their ass on a yearly basis.

On another note, OSU is going to push to play this in Columbus every year. I think XU should refuse if they don’t wanna come to Cincinnati. We don’t really need to bend over backwards to play OSU.

[RyanblockXU]

It almost feels like Cronin wants to start a rivalry with OSU and put Xaviers on the back burner.

I read that some UC fans just want to cancel the shootout. And if UC can get a continuous year in and year out game with OSU, they might be able to sell that to their fans and alum as a positive.

My Cousin told me that he doesn't get any satisfaction from beating X, only relief. That most fans would rather just not lose than to win. I know at XU we care about winning and hold it at different level than UC fans do when they win the shootout.


I wonder if their is a lifetime contract for UC and X to play or do they just agree that it has to happen?

[MuskieXU]

It almost feels like Cronin wants to start a rivalry with OSU and put Xaviers on the back burner.

I read that some UC fans just want to cancel the shootout. And if UC can get a continuous year in and year out game with OSU, they might be able to sell that to their fans and alum as a positive.

My Cousin told me that he doesn't get any satisfaction from beating X, only relief. That most fans would rather just not lose than to win. I know at XU we care about winning and hold it at different level than UC fans do when they win the shootout.


I wonder if their is a lifetime contract for UC and X to play or do they just agree that it has to happen?

That’s exactly what he wants to do. If it were up to Mick he would cancel the shootout. It was pretty public knowledge after the brawl that Mick was adamant about canceling the series. A lot of fans feel the same way. Mick knows that’s not gonna happen in the near future so the next best thing is to create a distraction for his dismal record against XU by pumping up a new shiny series with OSU.

[xudash]

On the one hand, I guess I have to respect the notion of "never say never". Other rivalry games have fallen by the wayside.

On the other hand, some of those fallen rivalry games were impacted by football related events, including conference realignments.

As for the Crosstown Shootout specifically, neither program has a bonafide reason to terminate it. Not one. Especially given its status on the national stage. And it isn't Cronin's decision to make.

Frankly, we don't need it anymore ourselves, but we certainly seem to respect it's place and standing in the scheme of things, especially since we presently "own" it.

Besides, were UC to cancel it, they would get hammered by many, if not most media outlets over it.

The beautiful reality of all this is that our esteemed AAC Member needs a game against Ohio State IN ADDITION TO THE CROSSTOWN SHOOTOUT.

[X-band '01]

If they do start this up, expect it to last as long as Chris Holtmann remains Ohio State's coach.

I don't care if I'm in the minority of X fans, but I would love to see this become an annual fixture in Columbus (or Cincinnati if the people running USBank Arena ever get their shit together).

[GoMuskies]

My association with Ohio began and ended with my four years at Xavier, so I personally don't really give a shit about a potential Ohio State "rivalry". When they're good, it would be nice to play them like it's nice playing any other good team. But I don't feel stronger about playing them than I do about playing Illinois or Tennessee.

[Masterofreality]

Mick SucKS. We all know that already. Plus he's an excuse making shape shifter who is always trying to divert and deflect.

As to the 4 team Ohio deal, ok with XU and Oh-ho-ho State, barely Ok with the BoreCats because of their crap conference and lousy schedule, but F the Cryers. A) XU rolled them by a cool 29 the last time they played. B) their cretin fans obscenely disrespected their own Hall of Famer- who just happens to be Chris Mack's wife. C) Archies gone and not coming back. Closed Window. D) They are 5-5 vs a mediocre schedule. E) They're in a second tier league. F) Who ever plays them gets an SOS negative hit.

VD blows. I'd rather have the previous year's MAC Champion/NCAA participant be the 4th team. That would add some real spice. Screw those mouth breathers and don't let them even in the building with the Big Boys. They don't deserve the exposure.

The 4 teams in Indiana play in the Big 10, Big East and ACC. None of them play in the 8th and 10th ranked conferences. F-em, really, F-em.

[GIMMFD]

Honestly, I'd rather play Kent State than Dayton, they're going to fall into irrelevancy at this rate, I don't even hate them anymore, I just feel sad for them. It's like seeing a homeless person on the street, you never give him money because he's probably going to use it for crack, but you can still be sympathetic. I think a series with Ohio State/UC/X/4th team would be just a fun little thing to do in the state, may be good for potential recruits, but honestly, I don't have much of a desire to really play Ohio State, I think we'd wipe the floor with them.

[xudash]

Mick SucKS. We all know that already. Plus he's an excuse making shape shifter who is always trying to divert and deflect.

As to the 4 team Ohio deal, ok with XU and Oh-ho-ho State, barely Ok with the BoreCats because of their crap conference and lousy schedule, but F the Cryers. A) XU rolled them by a cool 29 the last time they played. B) their cretin fans obscenely disrespected their own Hall of Famer- who just happens to be Chris Mack's wife. C) Archies gone and not coming back. Closed Window. D) They are 5-5 vs a mediocre schedule. E) They're in a second tier league. F) Who ever plays them gets an SOS negative hit.

VD blows. I'd rather have the previous year's MAC Champion/NCAA participant be the 4th team. That would add some real spice. Screw those mouth breathers and don't let them even in the building with the Big Boys. They don't deserve the exposure.

The 4 teams in Indiana play in the Big 10, Big East and ACC. None of them play in the 8th and 10th ranked conferences. F-em, really, F-em.

Agree with this.

VD has tanked. Recent history says it stays that way. Too bad. ��

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I honestly question the intelligence of anyone who isn't in favor of doing this event.

[RyanblockXU]

Mick SucKS. We all know that already. Plus he's an excuse making shape shifter who is always trying to divert and deflect.

As to the 4 team Ohio deal, ok with XU and Oh-ho-ho State, barely Ok with the BoreCats because of their crap conference and lousy schedule, but F the Cryers. A) XU rolled them by a cool 29 the last time they played. B) their cretin fans obscenely disrespected their own Hall of Famer- who just happens to be Chris Mack's wife. C) Archies gone and not coming back. Closed Window. D) They are 5-5 vs a mediocre schedule. E) They're in a second tier league. F) Who ever plays them gets an SOS negative hit.

VD blows. I'd rather have the previous year's MAC Champion/NCAA participant be the 4th team. That would add some real spice. Screw those mouth breathers and don't let them even in the building with the Big Boys. They don't deserve the exposure.

The 4 teams in Indiana play in the Big 10, Big East and ACC. None of them play in the 8th and 10th ranked conferences. F-em, really, F-em.



I think this is a bit dramatic in regards to Dayton.

1. Dayton will return to being a top 100 program. Thats at a minimum IMO. To play top 100 games you usually have to pay for them or do home and homes.
2. The stuff regarding Mack's wife wasn't cool, but there were some Xavier signs posted this year that got back to Mick and his brother via social media that called his mom a dog. His mom died from Cancer in 2005. Xavier fans aren't above disgusting behavior either.


I think honestly think UC is going to hold out on the series and instead push for a continuous series with OSU or if they join the "Crossroads" shootout, that they no longer play Xavier on Campus and maybe not even every year.

[GoMuskies]

there were some Xavier signs posted this year that got back to Mick and his brother via social media that called his mom a dog. His mom died from Cancer in 2005. Xavier fans aren't above disgusting behavior either.


Did the signs actually call Mick's mom a dog, or did the signs call Mick a sonofabitch? I mean, no one literally means to insult someone's mom by calling them a sonofabitch.

[THRILLHOUSE]

Did the signs actually call Mick's mom a dog, or did the signs call Mick a sonofabitch? I mean, no one literally means to insult someone's mom by calling them a sonofabitch.

I believe the sign said something like "Tried to call Mick Cronin's mom, but I lost my dog whistle'

[GoMuskies]

I believe the sign said something like "Tried to call Mick Cronin's mom, but I lost my dog whistle'

Well, that's....I don't even really get it. Why? Offensive and clever is one thing. That's not clever. When Mick and Hep are such pieces of shit, why would you bother starting in on the mom?!?

[ThrowDownDBrown]

I think this is a bit dramatic in regards to Dayton.

1. Dayton will return to being a top 100 program. Thats at a minimum IMO. To play top 100 games you usually have to pay for them or do home and homes.
2. The stuff regarding Mack's wife wasn't cool, but there were some Xavier signs posted this year that got back to Mick and his brother via social media that called his mom a dog. His mom died from Cancer in 2005. Xavier fans aren't above disgusting behavior either.


I think honestly think UC is going to hold out on the series and instead push for a continuous series with OSU or if they join the "Crossroads" shootout, that they no longer play Xavier on Campus and maybe not even every year.

Xavier would never agree to altering the shootout, they would only accept playing in this event if we were never matched up with UC. I also doubt OSU would agree to a long term home and home series with UC when their clear preference is this crossroads event. UC has no grounds to demand anything but Mick sure as hell won't go down without his usual complaining.

[Masterofreality]

I think this is a bit dramatic in regards to Dayton.

1. Dayton will return to being a top 100 program. Thats at a minimum IMO. To play top 100 games you usually have to pay for them or do home and homes.
2. The stuff regarding Mack's wife wasn't cool, but there were some Xavier signs posted this year that got back to Mick and his brother via social media that called his mom a dog. His mom died from Cancer in 2005. Xavier fans aren't above disgusting behavior either.


I think honestly think UC is going to hold out on the series and instead push for a continuous series with OSU or if they join the "Crossroads" shootout, that they no longer play Xavier on Campus and maybe not even every year.

Whaaaaaa? ME dramatic? About VD? Hah!!

Leave that to PMThor :smile:

[FIGHTING MUSKETEER]

Would it be too far fetch to have a tri state tournament during Nov or Dec? It seems that every year Oh., Ky. and Indiana have several great to good teams, enough to pick 8 and have them play. Just a thought.

[xudash]

I honestly question the intelligence of anyone who isn't in favor of doing this event.

I think most, if not all here would be in favor of it, but under the right terms and structure.

This event isn't UC's to drive. UC and Cronin have very little leverage in determining how such an event would come together.

And VD is clearly heading in the wrong direction - again. One of the MAC schools would be a better option (e.g. Ohio) if they would just sustain a little more success.

[xu 89]

Mick is a turd.

[GIMMFD]

I think most, if not all here would be in favor of it, but under the right terms and structure.

This event isn't UC's to drive. UC and Cronin have very little leverage in determining how such an event would come together.

And VD is clearly heading in the wrong direction - again. One of the MAC schools would be a better option (e.g. Ohio) if they would just sustain a little more success.

Just a thought, but why does it necessarily have to be Ohio? Why not grab Northern Kentucky since they've been showing they can turn that program into something good. Or is it a stretch to have 3 "Cincy" teams in it?

[xudash]

Just a thought, but why does it necessarily have to be Ohio? Why not grab Northern Kentucky since they've been showing they can turn that program into something good. Or is it a stretch to have 3 "Cincy" teams in it?

I think the main idea behind these things is to put together an in-state competition between the better - or major - programs in a given state.

Indiana has the luxury of having four major programs located in it.

Ohio has two major programs in Xavier and Ohio State. A .5 program in UC. And then it falls off from there.

[paulxu]

I think the main idea behind these things is to put together an in-state competition between the better - or major - programs in a given state.

Indiana has the luxury of having four major programs located in it.

Ohio has two major programs in Xavier and Ohio State. A .5 program in UC. And then it falls off from there.

Boom!

[Muskeagle]

I hate Mick as much of the rest of you. I feel he is a whiny, negative coach who falsely got good publicity from the brawl fallout and is overall...pretty much a weasel.

THAT said, the idea that he would like to build a positive rivalry with OSU...I don't know...sounds pretty legit. Moreover, I looked at final KenPom rankings for the last five years. Here are the results:

UD--39, 59, 42, 42, 67 avg. 49.8

OSU--73, 76, 19, 27, 7 avg 40.4

UC--23, 32, 43, 19, 40 avg 31.4

XU--31, 14, 21, 52, 78 avg 39.2


I even did Kent State for the few of you wanting to add them:

KSU--141, 179, 118, 193, 121 avg. 150

I think the claims that Ohio has 2 to 2.5 major programs is crazy. UC actually has the best average KenPom ranking over the past five years. Obviously, our one poor year, kept that from being us, but UC has been remarkably consistent. CLEARLY, the proposed four are the best four programs in OH and they are all legit.

I thoroughly believe a Chris Mack coached Xavier team will never step foot in UD Arena to play a game....ever. I do think he'd play them on a neutral site.

[UCGRAD4X]

I hate Mick as much of the rest of you. I feel he is a whiny, negative coach who falsely got good publicity from the brawl fallout and is overall...pretty much a weasel.

THAT said, the idea that he would like to build a positive rivalry with OSU...I don't know...sounds pretty legit. Moreover, I looked at final KenPom rankings for the last five years. Here are the results:

UD--39, 59, 42, 42, 67 avg. 49.8

OSU--73, 76, 19, 27, 7 avg 40.4

UC--23, 32, 43, 19, 40 avg 31.4

XU--31, 14, 21, 52, 78 avg 39.2


I even did Kent State for the few of you wanting to add them:

KSU--141, 179, 118, 193, 121 avg. 150

I think the claims that Ohio has 2 to 2.5 major programs is crazy. UC actually has the best average KenPom ranking over the past five years. Obviously, our one poor year, kept that from being us, but UC has been remarkably consistent. CLEARLY, the proposed four are the best four programs in OH and they are all legit.

I thoroughly believe a Chris Mack coached Xavier team will never step foot in UD Arena to play a game....ever. I do think he'd play them on a neutral site.


I think many of us (as I was) would be surprised at these numbers. I'm no metrics geek, but seeing Xavier with 2 years worse than any of the five for UC and one worse than any of the four teams is a bit humbling, especially considering the level of vitriol some (including myself) have spewed against said programs.

[GoMuskies]

I think many of us (as I was) would be surprised at these numbers. I'm no metrics geek, but seeing Xavier with 2 years worse than any of the five for UC and one worse than any of the four teams is a bit humbling, especially considering the level of vitriol some (including myself) have spewed against said programs.

Well, Xavier has had three teams that bad (as the 2013 team) in the last 25 years. I'm not too worried about historical outliers. Particularly when even our historically bad teams haven't been THAT bad.

[Muskeagle]

Well, Xavier has had three teams that bad (as the 2013 team) in the last 25 years. I'm not too worried about historical outliers. Particularly when even our historically bad teams haven't been THAT bad.

I agree that the 2013 is an outlier for us and KenPom is only ONE ranking site. I think the takeaway isn't that UC is the best team/program of the bunch. I wouldn't trade our success for theirs in a heartbeat. I think the takeaway, is that these 4 teams are far and away the best four in Ohio AND they are all strong programs. UD SUCKS this year, but given the talent that graduated and that decommitted after the coaching change, to write them off because of THIS year is not sound.

[GoMuskies]

that these 4 teams are far and away the best four in Ohio

No doubt. The race to be the second best program in Ohio is certainly between those other three. No one else is close.

[Masterofreality]

I hate Mick as much of the rest of you. I feel he is a whiny, negative coach who falsely got good publicity from the brawl fallout and is overall...pretty much a weasel.

THAT said, the idea that he would like to build a positive rivalry with OSU...I don't know...sounds pretty legit. Moreover, I looked at final KenPom rankings for the last five years. Here are the results:

UD--39, 59, 42, 42, 67 avg. 49.8

OSU--73, 76, 19, 27, 7 avg 40.4

UC--23, 32, 43, 19, 40 avg 31.4

XU--31, 14, 21, 52, 78 avg 39.2


I even did Kent State for the few of you wanting to add them:

KSU--141, 179, 118, 193, 121 avg. 150

I think the claims that Ohio has 2 to 2.5 major programs is crazy. UC actually has the best average KenPom ranking over the past five years. Obviously, our one poor year, kept that from being us, but UC has been remarkably consistent. CLEARLY, the proposed four are the best four programs in OH and they are all legit.

I thoroughly believe a Chris Mack coached Xavier team will never step foot in UD Arena to play a game....ever. I do think he'd play them on a neutral site.

This ranking is overblown in the case of SucKS because they've done it vs a garbage schedule. Easy to build up KenPom points vs lousy competition, and now they are in a suck league too.

What counts is what they do vs the tough guys....and they suck at it. Mick may, at times, make the Dance but gets quickly bounced. The BoreCats have been consistent at blowing when it counts. And THAT is a fact.

YTG should play for the Dodgers.

[paulxu]

MOR's point is well taken. Those are interesting KenPom stats for 5 years, but who really cares about those stats?
I mean really...who actually cares? Maybe they help in betting on a certain game, or something.
But the game is played on the floor, not in the computer.

It's great that UC won a title 50 years ago, but so did Loyola of Chicago, and others.
The really great blue chip programs of our current era are very few. The usual suspects, who because of their success get the 5 stars and increase their opportunity to continue their success.

The actual results of these 4 programs in the last 15 years are a lot different then those stats.
Where it counts, on the court, and especially in post-season.
It's for sure the focus of the media, that impacts recruits, does not go back further than 15 years.
(Maybe not more than 15 days)

OSU: 5 S16's, 3 E8's, 2 FF

XU: 7 S16's, 3 E8's

UD: 1 S16, 1 E8

UC: 1 S16, 0 E8's

Just think about that. In 15 years, UC has been to just one S16. And they've got the best KenPom numbers.

I'd be interested in playing the first team. No interest in the 3rd. And I'd keep the Crosstown for its history, and the fun of watching Mick cry.

[xudash]

MOR's point is well taken. Those are interesting KenPom stats for 5 years, but who really cares about those stats?
I mean really...who actually cares? Maybe they help in betting on a certain game, or something.
But the game is played on the floor, not in the computer.

It's great that UC won a title 50 years ago, but so did Loyola of Chicago, and others.
The really great blue chip programs of our current era are very few. The usual suspects, who because of their success get the 5 stars and increase their opportunity to continue their success.

The actual results of these 4 programs in the last 15 years are a lot different then those stats.
Where it counts, on the court, and especially in post-season.
It's for sure the focus of the media, that impacts recruits, does not go back further than 15 years.
(Maybe not more than 15 days)

OSU: 5 S16's, 3 E8's, 2 FF

XU: 7 S16's, 3 E8's

UD: 1 S16, 1 E8

UC: 1 S16, 0 E8's

Just think about that. In 15 years, UC has been to just one S16. And they've got the best KenPom numbers.

I'd be interested in playing the first team. No interest in the 3rd. And I'd keep the Crosstown for its history, and the fun of watching Mick cry.

BOOM right back at you!

Spot on.

[usfldan]

Just a thought at how you could do this and incorporate the shootout, you could rotate three different sites- Columbus, Cincinnati, and I guess Cleveland. The two years it is not in Cincinnati the shootout is at one of the two campuses, and in the year it is in Cincinnati, UC and Xavier play the shootout as part of this and the other two play in the other game.

OSU effectively gets a home game every third year and never plays a true road game, since they never play XU or UC in Cincinnati.
UD I don't think has much leverage and just wants to be included, and they do also avoid being a road team in Cincinnati (they'd play OSU at a neutral court those years).
Maybe when you go to Cleveland you sub Cleveland State in for UD so it makes some kind of sense to go there.

It could look something like this (shootout on a different date):
2018-19: XU-UD, OSU-UC in Columbus (XU at UC)
2019-20: XU-OSU, UC-UD (or CSU) in Cleveland (UC at XU)
2020-21: XU-UC, OSU-UD in Cincinnati
2021-22: XU-OSU, UC-UD in Columbus (XU at UC)
2022-23: XU-UD (or CSU), OSU-UC in Cleveland (UC at XU)
2023-24: XU-UC, OSU-UD in Cincinnati


You could also do a two-city deal with just Cincinnati and Columbus, like this:
2018-19: XU-UD, OSU-UC in Columbus (XU at UC)
2019-20: XU-UC, OSU-UD in Cincinnati
2020-21: XU-OSU, UC-UD in Columbus (UC at XU)
2021-22: XU-UC, OSU-UD in Cincinnati

[GoMuskies]

It's an interesting idea, but do you really want to waste precious Crosstown Shootout seats on UD and OSU fans?

[xeus]

I honestly question the intelligence of anyone who isn't in favor of doing this event.

I'm not especially interested in an "Ohio series", and I'll try to use my intelligence to explain why.

1) It doesn't do anything special for our schedule from an SOS or tournament resume perspective. If we weren't scheduling UD or OSU, we'd be scheduling other teams of similar value. There's really no reasonable argument that UD, OSU, or any other Ohio teams enhance our schedule.

2) The fan experience aspect is more subjective, but adding OSU or UD on an annual basis doesn't do anything for me as a fan. I'd be cool with a home/home with OSU, but even that means only marginally more than a home/home with other big schools we have scheduled.

3) I prefer to keep the Crosstown Shootout the Crosstown Shootout, and not blend it into some forced "Ohio series" commitment. I love and hate the Shootout, but even when I hate it, I love that I hate it. In other words, I don't see any reason to mess with that unique and special series.

[Cheesehead]

I'm not especially interested in an "Ohio series", and I'll try to use my intelligence to explain why.

1) It doesn't do anything special for our schedule from an SOS or tournament resume perspective. If we weren't scheduling UD or OSU, we'd be scheduling other teams of similar value. There's really no reasonable argument that UD, OSU, or any other Ohio teams enhance our schedule.

2) The fan experience aspect is more subjective, but adding OSU or UD on an annual basis doesn't do anything for me as a fan. I'd be cool with a home/home with OSU, but even that means only marginally more than a home/home with other big schools we have scheduled.

3) I prefer to keep the Crosstown Shootout the Crosstown Shootout, and not blend it into some forced "Ohio series" commitment. I love and hate the Shootout, but even when I hate it, I love that I hate it. In other words, I don't see any reason to mess with that unique and special series.

intelligence? (:

[Lloyd Braun]

Has the Crossroads Classic in indiana moved the needle with recruiting? It’s the only reason I would consider it along with the pride of being top dog.

[xeus]

Has the Crossroads Classic in indiana moved the needle with recruiting? It’s the only reason I would consider it along with the pride of being top dog.

I think it's virtually impossible to isolate the effect of one game on the big picture of recruiting.

Also, I would be opposed to Xavier playing in any game called the "Crossroads Classic" unless it was played on Christmas Day.

[MuskieXU]

I think it helps with recruiting but I’m not sure it really moves the needle for XU. Dayton would probably be the biggest beneficiary there, as they’d get an extra nationally televised game. It obviously helps more if you win too. It doesn’t surprise me that Holtman wants to schedule this, he went 2-1 and got 2 Top 10 wins. I’d be interested in hearing Creans thoughts on the event.

[Masterofreality]

I'm not especially interested in an "Ohio series", and I'll try to use my intelligence to explain why.

1) It doesn't do anything special for our schedule from an SOS or tournament resume perspective. If we weren't scheduling UD or OSU, we'd be scheduling other teams of similar value. There's really no reasonable argument that UD, OSU, or any other Ohio teams enhance our schedule.

2) The fan experience aspect is more subjective, but adding OSU or UD on an annual basis doesn't do anything for me as a fan. I'd be cool with a home/home with OSU, but even that means only marginally more than a home/home with other big schools we have scheduled.

3) I prefer to keep the Crosstown Shootout the Crosstown Shootout, and not blend it into some forced "Ohio series" commitment. I love and hate the Shootout, but even when I hate it, I love that I hate it. In other words, I don't see any reason to mess with that unique and special series.

This.

The more I think about this, the more I hate it.

[xubrew]

If this comes together as a regular event, it wouldn't even begin until the 2020-2021 season. I just can't get excited or worked up about something that's that far down the road. Who knows what the complexion of each program will even be by then?

I've liked Chris Holtmann since before most people had even heard of him. I don't like Ohio State at all, and I'm kinda disappointed for selfish reasons that he's there. Most coaches don't like playing regional opponents, especially if they're on a perceived "lower level." Some do. He does. People talk about the Crossroads Classic, but he did more than that. He continued to play Indiana State home and home while at Butler as well. They actually lost at Indiana State last year. Most people don't even remember that, but that's precisely the point. It didn't really hurt them at all. They still ended up as a #5 seed (who was underseeded) and still ended up making the Sweet Sixteen.

Ohio State already has a two year deal in place with Cincinnati. After that, I think one of two things will happen. Either this Ohio based doubleheader will come together, or it won't and the two year deal with UC will turn into a long term ten year deal. In fact I think they've been having off the record discussions about it already. They'll also look to play home and homes with Xavier and Dayton not as long term fixture deals, but as semi-regular home and homes. If Xavier decides they don't want to play them home and home, then they'll just play Dayton every year.

Would an Ohio Crossroads be fun?? Yes. Would it be helpful?? Probably. Honestly though, I'd like to play one really hostile OOC road game each year prior to conference play. I don't like playing at UC in the middle of conference play because, while it's still better than not playing them at all, you lose what is in my opinion one of the biggest assets to the rivalry, and that's a chance to play in a hostile conference-like road game before conference play even starts. I'd actually rather play UD or Ohio State home and home and be on the road in the years we're hosting UC, than play them at a neutral site. Yes, we may lose. Seton Hall lost at Rutgers this year. But, I think they get more conditioned more quickly by playing a game like that, and if it means being ready sooner for conference play and being able to pick up an additional road win in conference, then at least they got SOMETHING out of it.

I don't know if this will happen or not. Truth be told I'm kind of surprised that the talks have gone as far as they have, so I won't predict that it will fall through. I do think UC would prefer a long fixture series with Ohio State to an annual Ohio Crossroads where they're playing Dayton or Xavier some of the time, and I don't think Xavier wants to change the format of the Shootout, so there are some definite roadblocks to this being finalized. But, they're still talking. All four schools. So, there's that. If it does fall through I won't care THAT much. I also completely expect to see Ohio State just schedule regular home and homes with other Ohio schools if this doesn't work out.

And Merry Christmas!!

[Section 200]

I think its amazing that Ohio State is pushing this tourney & that they agreed to a home & home series with UC. Ohio State NEVER plays on the road in state. Obviously something has changed in Columbus.

[xudash]

If this comes together as a regular event, it wouldn't even begin until the 2020-2021 season. I just can't get excited or worked up about something that's that far down the road. Who knows what the complexion of each program will even be by then?

I've liked Chris Holtmann since before most people had even heard of him. I don't like Ohio State at all, and I'm kinda disappointed for selfish reasons that he's there. Most coaches don't like playing regional opponents, especially if they're on a perceived "lower level." Some do. He does. People talk about the Crossroads Classic, but he did more than that. He continued to play Indiana State home and home while at Butler as well. They actually lost at Indiana State last year. Most people don't even remember that, but that's precisely the point. It didn't really hurt them at all. They still ended up as a #5 seed (who was underseeded) and still ended up making the Sweet Sixteen.

Ohio State already has a two year deal in place with Cincinnati. After that, I think one of two things will happen. Either this Ohio based doubleheader will come together, or it won't and the two year deal with UC will turn into a long term ten year deal. In fact I think they've been having off the record discussions about it already. They'll also look to play home and homes with Xavier and Dayton not as long term fixture deals, but as semi-regular home and homes. If Xavier decides they don't want to play them home and home, then they'll just play Dayton every year.

Would an Ohio Crossroads be fun?? Yes. Would it be helpful?? Probably. Honestly though, I'd like to play one really hostile OOC road game each year prior to conference play. I don't like playing at UC in the middle of conference play because, while it's still better than not playing them at all, you lose what is in my opinion one of the biggest assets to the rivalry, and that's a chance to play in a hostile conference-like road game before conference play even starts. I'd actually rather play UD or Ohio State home and home and be on the road in the years we're hosting UC, than play them at a neutral site. Yes, we may lose. Seton Hall lost at Rutgers this year. But, I think they get more conditioned more quickly by playing a game like that, and if it means being ready sooner for conference play and being able to pick up an additional road win in conference, then at least they got SOMETHING out of it.

I don't know if this will happen or not. Truth be told I'm kind of surprised that the talks have gone as far as they have, so I won't predict that it will fall through. I do think UC would prefer a long fixture series with Ohio State to an annual Ohio Crossroads where they're playing Dayton or Xavier some of the time, and I don't think Xavier wants to change the format of the Shootout, so there are some definite roadblocks to this being finalized. But, they're still talking. All four schools. So, there's that. If it does fall through I won't care THAT much. I also completely expect to see Ohio State just schedule regular home and homes with other Ohio schools if this doesn't work out.

And Merry Christmas!!

Ohio State is talking.

Xavier and UC are talking and listening.

VD is jumping up and down, yapping "take us, we're in, we'll do it" like a 12 pound fag-dog.

I know you miss the Cryers Brew, and we all have our opinions about this, but I will be very much against this if it benefits VD more than the other schoolS.

We owe them nothing. And I personally find this whole OVERLORD dynamic very enjoyable. I actually see them falling back as a program under their new coach.

Screw VD.

On a serious note, Merry Christmas as well.

[xubrew]

Northern Iowa is a lot better than Dayton this year, so we got more out of that game than playing at Dayton this year. The biggest thing I want is an early season hostile road environment and we got that this year.

Your whole opinion of this seems to be based on how it would impact Dayton. In three years. I can’t help but be amused that wanting to screw Dayton is what shapes your whole perspective, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. I don’t think it matters because I think Ohio Stare will play them anyway even if there is no annual doubleheader. It wouldn’t completely shock me if a two year series was in place as early as next year. So, they’ll get the same thing out of it whether this comes together or not or whether Xavier plays in it or not.

[xubrew]

I think its amazing that Ohio State is pushing this tourney & that they agreed to a home & home series with UC. Ohio State NEVER plays on the road in state. Obviously something has changed in Columbus.

Yes. The coach.

[xudash]

Northern Iowa is a lot better than Dayton this year, so we got more out of that game than playing at Dayton this year. The biggest thing I want is an early season hostile road environment and we got that this year.

Your whole opinion of this seems to be based on how it would impact Dayton. In three years. I can’t help but be amused that wanting to screw Dayton is what shapes your whole perspective, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. I don’t think it matters because I think Ohio Stare will play them anyway even if there is no annual doubleheader. It wouldn’t completely shock me if a two year series was in place as early as next year. So, they’ll get the same thing out of it whether this comes together or not or whether Xavier plays in it or not.

No, that is not my whole opinion about this. I am actually OK with this event being put together. Personally, I would like to see us play Ohio State once in a while, while keeping the crosstown shootout intact.

I personally simply don't believe that UD has to be the fourth school all the time. That program is a distant fourth to the other three, and the gap may get larger before it gets narrower.

Beyond all this, please understand that I am way past the point of even really caring about UD. We have left them very much behind in the rearview mirror. I am enjoying the strategic advantage we hold over them and prefer to keep it that way. I assure you that, we're the roles reversed, they would very much take the same position.

[nuts4xu]

10 years ago, this event would’ve been appealing to me - but not as much anymore. From what I’ve been led to believe, this event would have no affect on the Shootout. We wouldn’t play UC in this event, and would play either UD or OSU. I can take or leave it. It’s fine if we do, but I am not that excited about it. We can schedule better teams, and keep changing the look of our schedule. Rivalry games are awesome, but UD isn’t a rival...they are a doormat.

Those programs need us way more than we need them. Mario and Coach Mack have done just fine with the schedule, and don’t need any input from me.

[xukeith]

nope. leave it.

X out recruits all Ohio Schools.

Only lose recruiting advantage plus UD and OSU are having downswings.

I want X to play same schedule as this year. Maybe add 1 national TV regular season team super team like UNC, UK, Duke, Mich State, etc.

[AviatorX]

nope. leave it.

X out recruits all Ohio Schools.

Only lose recruiting advantage plus UD and OSU are having downswings.

I want X to play same schedule as this year. Maybe add 1 national TV regular season team super team like UNC, UK, Duke, Mich State, etc.

This is all well and good...if it were reality.

X does not out recruit OSU by any stretch. And I doubt those blue bloods are clamoring for a neutral site game against X.

I'm all in for an exact rip off of the Crossroads Classic. Year 1: XU/OSU, UD/UC Year 2: XU/UD, UC/OSU. Leave the Shootout as is (just as IU and Purdue never play in Indy). I would definitely rather that than Colorado, Utah, Auburn or some other mediocre high-ish major of Decembers past.

[paulxu]

This is all well and good...if it were reality.

X does not out recruit OSU by any stretch.

This is somewhat like RPI. X has out-recruited OSU the last 2 years.
But generally OSU will get better recruits.
Refer to the post on their recent history (15 years).
One Sweet 16 in that time. What are they doing with the recruits?

[AviatorX]

This is somewhat like RPI. X has out-recruited OSU the last 2 years.
But generally OSU will get better recruits.
Refer to the post on their recent history (15 years).
One Sweet 16 in that time. What are they doing with the recruits?

Wait what? That can't be right. Off the top of my head they went to the Title Game with Oden/Conley and the Final Four with Craft/Sullinger both within the last 15 years.

No argument from me that (especially toward the end of Matta's time) they underachieve relative to how they recruit, but I don't think X is on their level when it comes to recruiting (yet).

[Section 200]

Wait what? That can't be right. Off the top of my head they went to the Title Game with Oden/Conley and the Final Four with Craft/Sullinger both within the last 15 years.

No argument from me that (especially toward the end of Matta's time) they underachieve relative to how they recruit, but I don't think X is on their level when it comes to recruiting (yet).

We can probably never get on OSU's level for recruits, since they are the state flagship and have a top football team. Doesn't mean we can't beat them!

[AviatorX]

We can probably never get on OSU's level for recruits, since they are the state flagship and have a top football team. Doesn't mean we can't beat them!

Completely agree.

[paulxu]

Ack. You are correct. Christmas bourbon fog caused me to mix up OSU and UC.

We have had better recruit classes the last 2 years than OSU, but still need to get those FF's for sure.